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229: The Answer is Yes, Now What's the Question · Customer Service Revolution | Customer Experience & Employee Experience for Business Leaders

• 1:22
  Hello, revolutionaries.
• 1:23
  Welcome back to another episode of the Customer Service Revolution podcast.
• 1:28
  I'm your co-host, Denise Thompson, and I am here with our Chief Revolution Officer, John DiJulius Welcome, John.
• 1:36
  how you doing, Denise?
• 1:38
  I am fantastic.
• 1:39
  How are you doing today?
• 1:41
  Great, in the midst of a crazy travel.
• 1:43
  Last week I did a tour in Puerto Rico.
• 1:46
  Have you been to Puerto Rico?
• 1:48
  years ago.
• 1:49
  In fact, on a trip with you and some other people, San Juan.
• 1:55
  or 93 or something.
• 1:58
  Is that the only time?
• 2:00
  Wow.
• 2:00
  Before some of our listeners were born.
• 2:02
  I think so.
• 2:03
  I think that's the only time I've been there and it was just San Juan.
• 2:05
  From a port, from a port, old San Juan.
• 2:09
  Yeah, so I've got to go recently, last, this is like the third time in three years.
• 2:15
  And it's a spectacular island.
• 2:18
  Just so much to see and do.
• 2:20
  I got to speak for, I spoke for a different company every day.
• 2:23
  And there's just a warmth there.
• 2:25
  They're very welcoming and very nice.
• 2:29
  I really like it.
• 2:31
  so you could get used to island life.
• 2:34
  Well, especially with 4 % tax, they have no federal and no anything if you spend six months in a day there, which would be hard because traveling doesn't count towards your
• 2:45
  days.
• 2:45
  I technically would have to spend, I don't know, to probably get six months there, I'd probably have to spend 10 months or something.
• 2:53
  Yeah.
• 2:54
  yeah, that would be tough.
• 2:56
  Huh.
• 2:56
  Yeah, but it's incredible for savings and stuff.
• 2:59
  But no, really nice people, great restaurants.
• 3:01
  It's just really fun.
• 3:03
  Like I said, it's the third time in maybe three or four years, and I've really enjoyed it.
• 3:08
  Then this week, as you know, I was supposed to go to the Caribbean, a couple islands for work, but they're having a hurricane or something, so it got pushed back.
• 3:20
  That's why we're able to do this today.
• 3:23
  Yeah, well glad to have you here.
• 3:25
  Yeah, glad to be here.
• 3:28
  John, today we're going to talk about the answer is yes.
• 3:33
  What's the question?
• 3:34
  So yeah, it could be anything.
• 3:36
  You've often said that you hate the word no.
• 3:40
  You're very strong about that.
• 3:42
  Why does that word have no place, pun intended, in customer service culture?
• 3:48
  No is a negative trigger to customers, to anyone.
• 3:53
  No to me is Latin for I'm lazy and I'm not going to help you figure this out.
• 4:00
  Right?
• 4:00
  So it's kind of like, you know, and there's so many levels to no.
• 4:05
  And I know, certainly understand that everything can't be a yes.
• 4:10
  but I just don't think we should use the word no.
• 4:13
  Let's say you're calling in and making an appointment somewhere.
• 4:17
  Well, do you have a three o'clock?
• 4:18
  No.
• 4:19
  Do you have a four o'clock?
• 4:20
  No.
• 4:21
  And it's just like, don't say the word no, say, well, we're fully committed at three, our first available is five tomorrow, it's three, whatever.
• 4:32
  But I just think no should never be used.
• 4:35
  It doesn't mean everything can be a yes, but just focus on what you can do.
• 4:40
  You have a powerful metaphor about the milkshake that you occasionally talk about from Cameron Mitchell restaurants.
• 4:48
  Can you tell that story?
• 4:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:51
  So we use this in our Above and Beyond workshops.
• 4:56
  And as you know, Cameron Mitchell's was restaurants.
• 5:01
  They're headquartered in Columbus and Cameron himself started off, think, as a dishwasher and he's built an empire.
• 5:09
  And I know
• 5:10
  20 years ago, he sold Mitchell's Fish Market to Ruth Chris for like $100 million and he's built so many more brands and they're all over.
• 5:20
  I saw one in Miami a couple of weeks ago, but really great restaurants.
• 5:24
  But they were one of our first consulting clients 20 some years ago.
• 5:31
  And like we always say, no one bad hires us.
• 5:34
  They are so good.
• 5:35
  They have what you learn there when you go to work there, you'll learn about the milkshake story and the milkshake story is their metaphor icon because most high-end restaurants
• 5:46
  will say no.
• 5:47
  this, when I started working with them, my kids were young and this was such a true to life story that we would, silly take our kids.
• 5:59
  to nice restaurants and it was never a good experience for us or anyone there.
• 6:03
  so often our kids didn't like what was on their menu if they had a kid's menu.
• 6:08
  So they would just say, can we just have a milkshake?
• 6:10
  And more times than not, they'd say no.
• 6:13
  And, but you have ice cream on your menu for dessert and you have a million blenders in there in the bar.
• 6:21
  for your pina coladas and daiquiris and all that.
• 6:25
  The waitress would say, well, I wouldn't even know what to charge you.
• 6:29
  I'm like, no, charge me what a filet costs.
• 6:31
  You don't want my kids unhappy.
• 6:32
  They'll empty this place faster than a fire.
• 6:35
  So when we started working with Cameron, they've already had this and they were already so great at customer service before we started working with them.
• 6:44
  it had happened to him, Cameron himself with his kids, and he just couldn't understand why.
• 6:51
  people just kind of have a default to know.
• 6:54
  And so it became the milkshake story just became this iconic story that gets shared when you get hired at Cameron Mitchell's restaurants.
• 7:03
  And it stands for the answer is yes.
• 7:06
  Now what's the question?
• 7:07
  And it might be one of my favorite lines when it comes to customer service.
• 7:12
  as you know, I've always wanted...
• 7:14
  My employees, if customer comes up and says, excuse me, can we, and I just want the answer to be yes, before they could even get the question out of their mouth, right?
• 7:23
  I mean, very rarely is it something like, can we have $500, right?
• 7:29
  And so yes, yes is the answer, what's the question.
• 7:32
  So how Cameron Mitchell's, metaphor and the story you hear about at orientation, then they have milkshake pictures everywhere,
• 7:40
  To remind you that that's our culture, the answer is yes.
• 7:43
  What's the question?
• 7:44
  Find a way.
• 7:45
  And they have a bunch of stories of how this has happened in other examples of what people have asked for that probably other restaurants would think was like crazy.
• 7:54
  Like they love the, how they prepared something.
• 7:58
  They're sea bass.
• 7:59
  And so they asked them if they can get the,
• 8:01
  recipe and the chef came out and said yeah, and he wrote it down and gave it to him where other people would probably be so The the other things that Cameron Mitchell does so you
• 8:10
  go in there as behind the scenes and you see these Milkshake pins and then they have employees They wear a milkshake and that means they got caught going above and beyond
• 8:20
  recently.
• 8:21
  So it's it's their recognition
• 8:24
  at every company meeting, at least they did this back in the day, I don't know if they still do it, I bet you they still do, whether it's a meeting of five people, 50, or an
• 8:35
  entire company annual event, and been to all.
• 8:38
  you start the meeting with a milkshake in front of you.
• 8:41
  A milkshake.
• 8:42
  Everyone has a milkshake, it's a toast, and it's about the great customer experience that they want to thrive.
• 8:49
  And then the highest award you could win at their annual event is a milkshake award.
• 8:54
  So it's just the metaphor and the constant branding, top of mind awareness of the milkshake, say yes, find a way to say yes.
• 9:03
  The example they use is if you and your significant other are dining and your daughter wants McDonald's French fries and there's a McDonald's across the street, go get it.
• 9:14
  Keep her happy.
• 9:15
  So the parents are there drinking more wine and ordering more expensive food.
• 9:21
  So I I've loved it.
• 9:22
  The answer is yes, what's the question?
• 9:25
  That's awesome.
• 9:27
  So it's easy to see what that's like in a restaurant setting.
• 9:31
  How do you implement that philosophy in, how did you do it in John Roberts' spa?
• 9:35
  and what impact did it
• 9:37
  So how we impact it to our businesses and at the D.
• 9:46
  Julia's Group consulting with other companies is we kind of crawl, walk and run.
• 9:50
  And the first layer, because I know everyone has a hard time with, you know, the answer is yes, what's the question?
• 9:56
  Oh, you don't understand.
• 9:57
  Clients are going to take advantage of us.
• 9:59
  So we really start with just don't ever say the word no.
• 10:04
  I don't care what's asked.
• 10:07
  You can't use the word no.
• 10:10
  So never say the word no.
• 10:12
  The always doesn't say yes, because someone might be asking for, you know, reservations right now and you're fully booked.
• 10:21
  Can you get me that order, you know, here and you don't have the product in your warehouse to ship it to them, right?
• 10:28
  So there are definitely questions, requests we get from customers.
• 10:32
  So instead of,
• 10:33
  saying the word no, focus on what you can do.
• 10:35
  You just can't use the word no.
• 10:38
  And so you might say, can I get in right now for an appointment with the doctor, hairdresser, whomever.
• 10:47
  And we're fully committed.
• 10:48
  So we said, while we're fully committed, our first opening is tomorrow at three, or, and I could put you on a waiting list for today.
• 10:58
  sometimes people cancel and you'll be the first person we call.
• 11:01
  So you didn't say no.
• 11:04
  and you you weren't able to exactly say yes, but you focus on what you can do.
• 11:09
  And I just think no is a negative trigger.
• 11:12
  Um, I get annoyed when I just hear no, no, no, like I don't feel like they're working with me.
• 11:16
  I don't feel like they're empathizing with why I need, you know, whatever I'm asking for.
• 11:22
  think so many of our employees are like that?
• 11:25
  Let's call them lactose intolerant.
• 11:28
  They're not milkshake friendly.
• 11:30
  Why do so many default to no?
• 11:33
  I really think it's, I think it's a good place.
• 11:37
  It comes from a good place.
• 11:39
  They're protective of the company.
• 11:40
  But I think mostly it is from prior training, prior company, or maybe the company they're working at that is trying to change to a world-class customer service company.
• 11:52
  But we had so much policy in the past that our employees were brainwashed by
• 11:58
  A previous boss or previous boss is that, hey, you know, the expiration on this coupon gift certificate is April 30th.
• 12:07
  And, know, if someone comes in on May 1st, they can't use it, you know, and no, you can't use it.
• 12:13
  I forgot my gift card.
• 12:14
  Can you look?
• 12:15
  No, you know, you know, all the silly nose.
• 12:18
  And I think they're just programmed to be policy, policy, policy and
• 12:24
  I, you know, I, I don't, I, I think it's, it's poor leadership, poor training.
• 12:29
  and, then it becomes like, you know, we've had this experience when we get employees who are really nice, but still have that no first mentality.
• 12:38
  again, I don't think it's their fault to break them of the habit is hard, even though we tell them, say, yes, they're just, it's a default.
• 12:46
  and they're afraid they'll get fired if they let a.
• 12:49
  customer get away with something or go against policy or whatever it may be.
• 12:55
  Do you have an example of a good yes moment in, whether it's in one of your companies or a client, that like what the real cost would be if they said no versus turning that no into
• 13:06
  a yes?
• 13:07
  Well, I think the cost is a bad taste in the customer's mouth that we're not customer friendly, that we're not trying to work with them and empathize with them.
• 13:18
  But we've also found that...
• 13:20
  A lot of times we say no and we don't know why we say no.
• 13:24
  Why are you saying no to that?
• 13:26
  We can do that.
• 13:27
  that's the way I was trained.
• 13:28
  And then someone trained that person.
• 13:30
  And maybe five years ago, we weren't capable of doing that.
• 13:34
  But the problem's been solved or we can do that, but maybe no one's educated.
• 13:39
  And that's where I love that example in the Harvard Business Review article.
• 13:44
  Stop trying to delight your customers.
• 13:47
  Great, great article in the Harvard Business Review.
• 13:49
  Maybe we can provide a link to it.
• 13:52
  But it was a...
• 13:55
  find it here.
• 13:56
  So in this case, was, I think, Ameriprise Financial told their customer service reps who manage their phones to record when they have to say no.
• 14:08
  They didn't tell them to stop saying no.
• 14:10
  They just said, I want you to write down every time you say no, you have to say no to a customer.
• 14:16
  And you know.
• 14:17
  While auditing the NOES, the company found many dated policies had been outmoded by regulatory changes or systems or process improvements.
• 14:27
  And during the first year of capturing the NOES, Ameriprise modified or eliminated 26 policies that they didn't realize they were still saying no to.
• 14:39
  It has since expanded the program by asking frontline reps to come up with other process
• 14:44
  efficiencies generating $1.2 million in savings as a result.
• 14:49
  It is worth considering what type of internal survey or audit might bring your own company's policies up to date and potentially make a significant impact.
• 14:58
  So I think the best place obviously to go is to your frontline employees.
• 15:02
  And while it is a default for many frontline employees, I don't think they like saying no.
• 15:08
  It's not fun.
• 15:09
  You get beat up by the customer, you piss off the customer.
• 15:12
  I really think it's the frontline employees fault.
• 15:15
  They're just delivering the message that they've been trained.
• 15:17
  But then, you know, we beat them up and say, what do mean?
• 15:21
  Do know how much money I spend?
• 15:22
  You how long I've been a customer here?
• 15:23
  You can't allow me to, you know, have a milkshake or, you know, you have to charge me for that late charge.
• 15:31
  I've never been late in, you know, a decade, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:35
  So I think, you know,
• 15:36
  I, you know, from our experiences, frontline employees love to be part of this.
• 15:40
  Another game we play when doing the above and beyond workshop for companies is the no game.
• 15:49
  And so we'll bring employees up and you know, and they have to, the game is the employee asking a question has to try to ask you a question so ridiculous.
• 16:01
  to try to get you to say no.
• 16:03
  And their job is to get you to say no.
• 16:06
  And the other person who's receiving the question, answering the question, their job is not to say no.
• 16:15
  And it's fun.
• 16:16
  sometimes when have two employees or two employees come up, the first question they may ask is, Denise, can I borrow $5,000 just to get you to say no?
• 16:31
  You know, so sometimes people are like, no, I, I, I, you I don't have $5,000 to give you.
• 16:36
  So, you know, and then some people are more creative and like, God, I was just about to ask you for a loan.
• 16:42
  I'm tapped out, but what I do know is there's an ATM right down the street.
• 16:47
  I have a banking relationship at Key Bank or Huntington or wherever I could, I'd be happy to introduce you to my banker.
• 16:55
  So you didn't, you didn't say no, but.
• 16:59
  You also didn't give them $5,000.
• 17:00
  So then you start, then you take it back to your most common places in your business, in your department that customers put you in a position to say no.
• 17:11
  And that could be, can I have a discount?
• 17:13
  Can I have it cheaper?
• 17:15
  Can I have it now?
• 17:16
  Can I, you know, whatever those things are.
• 17:19
  And you work on getting creative with not saying no.
• 17:26
  and giving alternatives and focusing on what you can do.
• 17:28
  But in there, you also find that there's probably 10 to 15 % of things that we could figure out how to say yes.
• 17:36
  If we're getting asked that often, why don't we figure it out?
• 17:40
  So think it's important and I think employees love being able to say yes, they become the hero when we empower them to say yes.
• 17:48
  Do you think, and I'm sure we've seen this, there are leaders that are afraid to give their employees that kind of free rein.
• 17:56
  So how can leaders build systems that empower the employees to say yes without fear of breaking an important policy or guideline?
• 18:07
  Yeah, I really think it's what we just discussed is figuring out what are the most difficult questions we get asked.
• 18:14
  Your employees, your frontline customer face employees get asked that maybe we can't say yes to right now.
• 18:21
  And giving them the tools.
• 18:23
  You've always been really good at this of articulating, here's what we can do.
• 18:27
  I think it's really role playing.
• 18:30
  It's frequently asked questions that are difficult to say yes to on their surface and giving them alternatives and also finding ways to see if we get asked this all the time,
• 18:44
  well, then this must be something we should figure out how to be able to do.
• 18:48
  In the very beginning, we talked about milkshake and having the milkshake pins.
• 18:53
  What are other ways that companies can reinforce this?
• 18:57
  So that's that metaphor for Cameron Mitchell's that just, this is who we are.
• 19:01
  This is our culture and advertise that milkshake.
• 19:04
  So now when we do workshops, it's in their books is what's your milkshake?
• 19:09
  And companies try to come up with their signature story that really demonstrates how their employees can go above and beyond.
• 19:18
  you know, right after we worked with Cameron Mitchell's, we worked with the melting pot in another restaurant.
• 19:24
  so when they started to think about what's their milkshake, theirs became Pot on Wheels.
• 19:29
  they made it, you know, like Cameron Mitchell's, they created an image, Pot on Wheels, melting pot.
• 19:35
  And that story came from, there was a couple that, a husband and wife,
• 19:39
  They had date night every Tuesday night at a melting pot location for years.
• 19:44
  And then one Tuesday they missed.
• 19:47
  So they just thought, know, some, you know, whatever they're on vacation.
• 19:51
  And then the next Tuesday they missed.
• 19:52
  And after, you know, four, six weeks of them not coming in, they reached out to them to see, you know, what had happened because they were,
• 20:02
  always coming in on Tuesday night.
• 20:04
  And they found out that the wife got ill and she only had a few more months, let's say, live.
• 20:13
  And so that restaurant decided to make sure they had their Tuesday night melting pot dinner, but it was delivered to them at the hospital, at their house.
• 20:28
  wherever they were on the remaining Tuesday nights that she had.
• 20:32
  So that image became Pot on Wheels and it became their milkshake and they had a POW, Pot on Wheels, POW award, POW stories at their annual conference.
• 20:45
  They had the top five POW stories of the year.
• 20:48
  And so, you know, a lot of companies have now created their milkshake.
• 20:52
  their metaphor that they can advertise and storytell and collect stories and just say, hey, you this is who we are.
• 21:00
  Find a way to say yes, find a way to make it happen.
• 21:02
  So it's both an above and beyond call to action and it is a kind of a yes is the answer.
• 21:10
  Storytelling is so powerful.
• 21:14
  For leaders that are listening right now, what's the first step they should take to create a yes culture?
• 21:20
  You know, demonstrate it, talk about it.
• 21:23
  Obviously, you know, it's great to create that internally.
• 21:28
  We can't always say yes to our employees, just like we can't always say yes to our customers, you know.
• 21:34
  Can I get it, you know, for less?
• 21:36
  Can I get, you know, a 50 % raise or can I have, you know, the week
• 21:42
  Thanksgiving off and if you're in retail, that's, you know, probably a blackout period because you're so busy, you know, between, you know, November 15th and December 31st.
• 21:54
  So it's trying to make it happen.
• 21:56
  It's trying not to say no.
• 21:59
  if you can't say yes, say yes.
• 22:00
  and then, you know, focus on what you can do.
• 22:03
  you know, instead of just, you know, the cold, harsh no.
• 22:06
  And I just really think it is sitting around and talking with your employees.
• 22:11
  What are the situations you get asked the most that you just can't quickly give a yes.
• 22:17
  And they know, they know.
• 22:20
  Can I give another quote from this Harvard Business Review?
• 22:24
  I love this article and it's like from like 07 or 06.
• 22:30
  But another study in this article shows the level of frustration
• 22:34
  customers have to go through when trying to solve a problem.
• 22:37
  56 % of customers report having to re-explain an issue after a second time.
• 22:45
  57 % report having to switch from the web to the phone to solve a problem.
• 22:52
  59 % report expending moderate to high effort to resolve an issue.
• 22:57
  59 %
• 22:58
  reported being transferred and 62 % report having to repeatedly contact the company to resolve an issue.
• 23:06
  So as a result,
• 23:07
  of this study.
• 23:09
  a South Africa's Ned Bank instituted the Ask Once Promise, which guarantees that the rep who picks up the phone will own the customer's issue from start to finish.
• 23:22
  So he or she may not be able to give you the answer you're looking for right then, but she's not gonna transfer you.
• 23:28
  They're gonna do the work behind the scenes and either have you wait, go with them.
• 23:34
  What I like to call is a hot transfer when you transfer and you stay on the call with them or get back to them But they the the customer does not have to go through the channels the
• 23:46
  the rep owns it asks ask once promise love that
• 23:50
  Truly owning the issue.
• 23:52
  Yeah, I think that's great.
• 23:54
  So this was from 2007.
• 23:55
  I would be really curious with the help of AI what those numbers would be today.
• 24:02
  Where do you think they land?
• 24:04
  Hopefully, they're better.
• 24:06
  Hopefully, they're better to get a quick answer as long as you have the option to speak to a human being.
• 24:14
  Because probably if I don't get the answer I'm looking for via AI, I want to talk to someone if it's an important request that I'm having.
• 24:24
  And I don't like everyone.
• 24:26
  probably, overvalue their importance and
• 24:31
  I'm a VIP and I've been coming here for 20 years.
• 24:36
  I know the owner.
• 24:37
  have his cell number, my thing.
• 24:39
  I've been a client longer than you've even worked here.
• 24:43
  so we probably overvalue our importance, but that's okay.
• 24:47
  want every customer to think they're critically important to us.
• 24:51
  And if we can't say yes, I want the customer to feel bad for us.
• 24:56
  that how difficult it is to not be able to say yes in this situation.
• 25:01
  Like you're trying everything.
• 25:03
  You're going to lose sleep at night because you couldn't get that out of stock product to them.
• 25:10
  And you're calling everyone you know that may have it.
• 25:13
  then the customer realizes how bad you want to help them.
• 25:16
  hopefully they're saying, no, it's not that important.
• 25:18
  I should have called sooner and not last minute and all those things.
• 25:24
  Is there a best practice of how quickly they should be able to speak to a human when necessary?
• 25:33
  So when AI isn't taking care of the issue for them, the FAQs on the site, whatever it might be, aren't able to take care of it, and you need to talk to a person, is there a
• 25:45
  best practice how long?
• 25:48
  I mean, would hope, you know, so there should be an easy channel to just opt out of the chat bot world and say representative or, you know, type in or click on the button that,
• 26:00
  you know, an agent, whatever that looks like.
• 26:03
  And then I don't think it should ever take more than three minutes and three minutes is long, but it should never take more than three minutes.
• 26:10
  And maybe, you know, if you can trust them, if it is going to, you give them the option of, you know, I like when the option is, your currently hold time is, you know, seven to
• 26:20
  10 minutes, which would be horrible.
• 26:21
  Or we can call you back and it won't take you out of your queue, your spot.
• 26:27
  I think companies that do that are pretty good at it.
• 26:29
  They do call you back.
• 26:31
  And so it doesn't leave you there just.
• 26:33
  you hanging out.
• 26:34
  And then I've also seen where you can say, call me back as soon as you can, or call me back at four, 430, because, you know, I got to jump on a call.
• 26:43
  I got to run, you know, do some errands.
• 26:45
  So I love those.
• 26:47
  And one last question for you.
• 26:48
  How does focusing on yes tie back into building a world-class customer experience?
• 26:56
  Well, that's it.
• 26:56
  I mean, we want to take care of the customer and have no friction points.
• 27:02
  And no is a friction.
• 27:03
  No is a negative trigger.
• 27:05
  No is, I'm lazy and I'm going to make you figure this out and ask me a hundred different ways on what the alternatives are versus leading with a
• 27:19
  Find the yes.
• 27:20
  Other companies have that as find the yes in the answer, which is all the same thing, right?
• 27:27
  Focus on what you can do, find the yes, just immediately go.
• 27:31
  But that takes education to employees to understand what the options can be, what the yes can be in that question.
• 27:39
  That's great.
• 27:40
  I lied.
• 27:40
  have one more question.
• 27:42
  So if you could give one piece of advice to every frontline employee, what would it be?
• 27:48
  So if you work for me, no is equal to dropping the F-bomb on a customer, which, you know, they both would be a fireable offense.
• 27:57
  You can't use the word no.
• 27:59
  You know, just literally focus on what you can do.
• 28:02
  I don't care if they're asking something ridiculous.
• 28:04
  know, it just, you know, unfortunately we're fully committed.
• 28:07
  You know, can I get it cheaper?
• 28:09
  Well, you know, while that...
• 28:10
  prices this, know, we do have less expensive products.
• 28:14
  You don't get the same thing with them.
• 28:16
  You may not get all the bells and whistles or we have a cheaper room that you don't have the ocean view or, you know, the, you know, the extra room in the room and all those
• 28:29
  things.
• 28:30
  maybe the customer says no, but you're not saying no.
• 28:33
  So you're just focusing on the alternatives.
• 28:36
  now.
• 28:38
  customer-facing employee is totally at the discretion of the bosses and leadership and policy, policy, policy.
• 28:47
  And so often they're brainwashed with, don't let customers take advantage of us.
• 28:54
  So you're in a really tough spot if you're in that type of environment.
• 28:59
  Hopefully leaders are behind this and don't want their...
• 29:03
  their employees saying no to people.
• 29:07
  And so they find the yes they help their employees find the yes in the answer.
• 29:13
  Find the yes.
• 29:14
  That's a good one.
• 29:15
  So let me turn back on you, Denise.
• 29:17
  You were an employee for a while before you became and went into leadership and then before you became a partner of the DiJulius Group.
• 29:26
  What was it like for you to do?
• 29:28
  Was it hard for you to live by this as an employee?
• 29:31
  Then was it hard for you to teach the employees underneath you how to live by this?
• 29:38
  What was it like as an employee?
• 29:41
  and leader.
• 29:42
  Yeah, so I don't think it's difficult because people want to help people, right?
• 29:48
  I would rather work for a company that gives you that kind of freedom to say yes or to let them know here's what we can do for you versus telling people no.
• 29:59
  Can you imagine what your day would be like if you had to go home at night and think about all the people you had to say no to today?
• 30:07
  and you got the crap beaten out of you 12 times today.
• 30:11
  That's not a job you look forward to.
• 30:13
  And I think, customers are used to hearing no so many times that the bar is so low for you to say yes to something or at least attempt to solve the issue and, give them
• 30:26
  alternatives.
• 30:27
  It's easy to make them happy in that way.
• 30:29
  So I always thought it was, leadership at your company's has always been really good about
• 30:36
  impressing that upon employees and employees are like, really, I can say that and they take that and run with it.
• 30:44
  got to be a little nervous at first because you really don't, you know, I would assume you don't believe you're not going to get in trouble.
• 30:52
  You could just say yes.
• 30:53
  Like while it's liberating, you just feel like there's no way.
• 30:57
  It's like, you know.
• 30:59
  think if it was a culture that was new, maybe, and everyone started at the same time, and it's like, who's going to be the first one to take that risk?
• 31:10
  But when you're placed into a culture where everyone is already saying yes, I think it makes it easy.
• 31:17
  It's kind of by osmosis.
• 31:19
  did you come from prior uh work environment?
• 31:25
  I know you had a prior work life and you were just a baby, was it, did you come from a policy driven, where it was hard when you came to work for John Roberts 29 years ago?
• 31:38
  so I did work in an office and had an office manager who was pretty strict about following the rules.
• 31:45
  And by rules, I mean policies also.
• 31:48
  So everything had to be this.
• 31:52
  I think there were times there that I got in trouble for being lenient because again, you just want to make the...
• 32:00
  guests, the customers, the patients, whatever it might be happy.
• 32:04
  So I think going to John Roberts at that time was more like finding home for me rather than being afraid.
• 32:12
  It was like, yes, this is the way it's supposed to be.
• 32:14
  Thank you for not getting back to me for saying yes.
• 32:17
  And when you got into leadership and you had to train others to do that, what was your experience with that?
• 32:23
  Was it hard?
• 32:25
  we did a lot of the role playing and I think that helps people tremendously.
• 32:29
  when they can do it, or if they get stuck on something, letting them know if you come across something where you don't know how to solve it, you don't know what alternatives,
• 32:40
  ask.
• 32:41
  Ask, don't say no because you don't know.
• 32:44
  Find out what else you can do for them.
• 32:46
  Ask someone who has more experience, go to your leader, whatever it is.
• 32:51
  Here's a Seth Godin thought on saying yes.
• 32:54
  Seth Godin says, yes is an opportunity and yes is an obligation.
• 32:59
  The closer we get to people who are confronting the resistance on their way to making a ruckus, the more they let us in.
• 33:09
  And the greater our obligation is to focus on the yes.
• 33:12
  There will always be a surplus of people eager to criticize nitpick or recommend caution.
• 33:18
  Your job
• 33:19
  is to reinforce the power of yes.
• 33:23
  So I just, absolutely love the slogan, yes is the answer now what's the question?
• 33:28
  Not only do I want my employees to interrupt customers with yes before they get the question out, I just think that's a cool way.
• 33:36
  I do it all the time when someone texts me, hey John, can I ask you a question?
• 33:42
  And I'll say yes is the answer.
• 33:44
  And like before they ask the question.
• 33:47
  And no one's ever asking for something, know, I, you know, I, but, it really gives them like, you know, it really makes them feel good.
• 33:55
  You know that, wow, I must really be important because he's saying yes, before he's even heard the question and have never been like regretted that I said yes.
• 34:06
  It's like, shit.
• 34:07
  You know, I can't, you know, no one's ever asked me, you know, anything that was, you know, not doable.
• 34:15
  And I think that's the case for most people.
• 34:18
  I haven't figured out how to do it at home.
• 34:20
  At home with my kids, it's no is the answer, don't even ask the question.
• 34:26
  But I do think, I'm sure there's great parents out there and great parenting books that kind of teach the same thing in a way of, you know, not just saying no, but explaining the
• 34:37
  why behind it and all that.
• 34:39
  But yeah.
• 34:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:44
  Yeah, but yeah, it's the same thing I would imagine in parenting that here's what you can do.
• 34:50
  While you cannot go out at 10 o'clock at night with Billy to go swimming at Billy, said.
• 35:02
  You want me to come up with a better one?
• 35:04
  One of your friends that you cannot go out with Sean.
• 35:08
  John, you cannot go out with Sean to go.
• 35:12
  ever, Yeah, you can never go out with Sean at any time.
• 35:19
  you know, I guess if your kid wants dessert first, or only dessert for dinner, right?
• 35:26
  It's, yeah, you can have dessert as long as you eat everything.
• 35:31
  You know, whatever.
• 35:33
  just, I think it's really a mindset shift.
• 35:37
  And that's where I love it.
• 35:38
  It's one of my favorite things to share and teach companies.
• 35:44
  And it is the company's favorite, favorite.
• 35:48
  One of the favorite things they institute is they love creating their own milkshake.
• 35:52
  They love the power of, of yes.
• 35:55
  And, and you know, the, liberating it is to employees that they have the autonomy.
• 36:01
  And I think we've talked about before, it goes back to like the daymaker dopamine.
• 36:06
  You know, when you work for a company and leaders who encourage, take the handcuffs off and give you autonomy, it's a much better job than, you know, hiding behind policy and
• 36:22
  being a punching bag.
• 36:23
  Absolutely.
• 36:24
  So listeners, figure out what you're going to say yes to today.
• 36:28
  Start auditing those that you might have in place now and figure out how to make them yeses.
• 36:34
  John, I'm so glad that you were able to join us today, that we interrupted your global travel.
• 36:41
  yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotta get, keep my tan going here.
• 36:46
  All right, thank you.
• 36:48
  We'll see you next time.
• 36:49
  And listeners, as always, if you have a question for John, send it in at tdg.clickforwardslashask.
• 36:59
  Thanks.
• 36:59
  Thank you.