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Flatliners with Matt McCarthy · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: it with the Bechdel Cast. Hi, and welcome to the
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin, and we're having a
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: podcast today and every day. Yeah, I'm well, I'll tell
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: you what it is and then I'll go into I'm
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: having a day. Um. The Bechtel Cast is a podcast
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: where we talk about the portrayal of women in movies.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Why do we do this, Well, it's just because a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: lot of movies because don't portray women well. But really
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: it's just because just because we felt like it. The
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast is inspired by the Bechdel Test, which requires
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: that two women in a movie have names, they talked
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to each other about something other than a man. And
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: we'll figure out whether this movie passes later on. But first,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: but first, you're having a day. My car got towed
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: because I'm a fucking idiot and I parked in front
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: of a driveway that I didn't realize was a driveway
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: because it had like a big gate over in it,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: and it just looked like a fence, and I didn't
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: see that it was a driveway. Uh so I got
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: my car towed. I still don't know where it is.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how to locate it. So I
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: think I just don't have a car anymore. I'm having
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a day and it feels like a good day to die. WHOA,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: WHOA into the movie we're talking about, which is Flatliners.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: But before we get into it, let's introduce our guests.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: You've seen him on Conan, You've seen him on Adam
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Ruins Everything. He hosts a podcast called We Watch Wrestling.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Matt McCarthy, Hello, Hello, thank you for joining us on
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: this wonderful day that I'm having. Hey man, that ain't
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: your fault, Yeah, and it's kind of it was my fault.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: What's gonna talk? Because like, I'm gonna have to pay
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: several hundred dollars to get it untowed. You know? Is
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: my mistake worth several hundred dollars? I don't think so,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: but that's how much it'll probably cost. I think it's
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: worth it, because, after all, you just paid off your car, right.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Think of how many people just think of it as
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: this month's car payment. Well, Is it worth it to
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: get my car? Yes, of course, I'm saying, is the
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: mistake I made? Should my punish maybe several hundred dollars
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: that I have to pay. We think of all the
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: people that benefit from that money, either the county and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the tow truck people. They have kids too. You just
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: bought the tow truck person's family, you know, groceries. My
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: money was going to like the Southern Poverty Law Center
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: or to like help alleviate homelessness in Los Angeles. Fine,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: but it's not going to go to those things. Oh,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I guess tow truck drivers should just eat out of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the garbage can and live on the street. I understand
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: they can tow away dumpsters for dinner that night. Is
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: that what you're saying. That's not what I'm saying. Their
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: daughters don't deserve to go to dance classes. Caitlinda nor
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: all right, well, I don't like where this is gone. Sorry,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: you're having a bad day and everyone's getting up on you.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: You did a good thing today. You're you're participating in
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the economy. You're giving back. Yeah, you're literally giving back. Yeah,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you get to go to an impound Now, I don't
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: get would you when? Would you ever ever get to
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: do that? That's right. Maybe they'll be an experience. Maybe
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: maybe you'll meet my future domestic partner there, because I'm
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: not getting married ever. A lot of a lot of
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: sexy singles hang out at the impound lone, that's true. Yeah,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about Flatliners. Matt When did you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: see this movie for the first time? And what's your
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: relationship to this movie. Well, it's interesting because this is
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I was terrified of scary movies and TV shows when
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, well into you know. Well, it's
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: like when here's like a good example and excuse my language,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: but I want to get the quote right. When Michael
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Jackson died, my cousin called my brother and said, hey, Michael,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: asked your brother if he still cries like a bitch
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: when Thriller comes on the TV. So the Thriller music
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: video was scared? Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, I was scary. Yeah,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: I had booky. I was so scared of well, I
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: was five when it came out, Like the Hogan Family
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Halloween episode where all three brothers have nightmares. Scared me
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: so much I unplugged the TV. Yeah, so you saw
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: this movie made you very scared. Well, no, because this
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: was I saw this growing up. I watched Flatliners alone
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and it scared the hell out of me. But it
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: has like a happy ending, like everything gets resolved. It
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: was the first scary movie I watched that. I was like,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not scared afterwards or tonight going to bed, because
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: it was like there was a resolution and everybody was
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: one technically everyone but Oliver Plat die. I know, what
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: a whimp. God, I have a lot of He was
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: also part that could have been. Yeah, Oliver Platt was
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: born forty six years old. I don't know if so
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: if this came out ninety, I must have seen it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: In so I was like eleven, Jamie, what about you?
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: When did you see it? Last night? When I am
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and I enjoyed it. I liked it. It was fun.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of it was fun for me,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: just because I love watching the Schumacher tropes. Just roll
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: on in. Do you mean? Like, well, I don't know
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: if this is a Schumacher trope, but the production design
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in this movie, specifically the lighting, Yes, I think it's
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: so fucking corny. I think it like, yeah, it all
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: is sort of wit like a high school die trying
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: to be David Lynch. Yes, it looked like I was.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: I watched it before where I came here, and it
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: was one of the scenes where Keifer Sutherland is in
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: his outrageous apartment with no furniture, and I go, it's
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: just it's a fucking music video. It's so music video
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the whole movie. Well, they go to med school in
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: an art museum, in a museum that's under renovation, which
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: he thinks that they would address at any point, but
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: they never. Everywhere they go is either closed for the night,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: like the diner, all the chairs are up, but they're
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: they're in there with one matress ripping cigarettes. Well, I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: assumed that this movie took place in some alternative timeline,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: but then they make all these very of the moment
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: references that it's like, oh no, they're just supposed to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: be in Chicago. What's the used to because someone says
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: kind of Bacon says that he was on the l
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: or something right right and now, and then I was
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: just like, Okay, now I know, but it could out
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: to our Chicago fans and starting in the movie, Chicago,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: not anyone who lives in Chicago. Yeah, yeah, people who
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: really love Richard your singing voice. This episodes dedicated to you. Yeah,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and the way that Joel Shoemaker styles it just looks
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: like like there's literally steam everywhere outside just the city
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: is just taking a long fart for the entire but
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: no one is there, like it's totally a band. Like
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I thought that they were going to address like, oh
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: this is Chicago. If if everyone left, it was very strange. Well,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: there's also the scene where Julie Robert's character is tending
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to that very elderly woman who's on her deathbed and
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: they're the hospital that they're in, like it looks like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: a World War two era Like, yes, it archaic looking,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: you know the hospital scene and Gone with the Wind
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: reminded me of that, like just like a right, like
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: it's a makeshift hospital that got set up in the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: hallway of someone's mansion. Yeah, it looks dirty. It doesn't
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: look like the production design is bonkers in this movie.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I had not seen this movie. Either I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: thought I did, or maybe it's just because I it
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: had been recommended to me so often and explained to
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: me like what the premise was that I was like, yeah,
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I know this movie I must have. Then I watched
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoops, I've never seen it, but I
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: watched it twice. Generally I liked it, except I hate
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the third act. I hate how it ends. The resolution
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: is so stupid, and I'll get into it later, but
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: it kind of ruined the whole movie for me. The
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: way the third act unfolds. I think the whole movie
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: is like I don't know, It's like I enjoyed watching it,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: but it is very boring, where it's like, like, what
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: could you learn by watching this whole movie that you
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: couldn't take away by just watching the trailer, you know,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: like they die over and over. I remember the bits
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: that were in the commercials of so many movies. So
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: as soon as Oliver plaqueas I didn't go to medical
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: school to help my classmates die or something like that,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that was I was like, Oh, that wasn't the commercial.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: That was big time And today is a good day
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to die. Of course, it's the best line in the movie,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and it's the first line of dialogue and it's all
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: downhill from there. The last line in the movies by
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: far the worst. It's not it's it's not such a
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: good day to turns out I was yeah, and then
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: just tuba music plays out there. I like the idea,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I like the story, but I mean the execution. I
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: don't like Joel Schuemaker movies. Shout out to my Phantom heads. I, well,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to First of all, I like
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the incredible shrinking woman. I haven't seen that I've seen ole.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I I just met met downstairs, and I did what
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I do when I don't know how to start a conversation,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: which is a bring up. Joel Schuewalker is the Fantom
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: of the Opera. Yeah, no, the number twenty three is
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: probably the worst movie I've ever seen. So that one's
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: very bad. That one's very I forgot that was a
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Joel Schumaker joint Family of the Opera. Two guys for
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: cannot wait to cover it in a future episode. Shout
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: out to Jerry Butler, should have been your breakout roll.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Too bad you cannot sing? That was really the only
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: thing that in everything about the movie. Anyways. Shout out
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to my Shoewalker heads. Joel shoe Walker is mediocre in
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: a very special way because he's trying, like he's going
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: for so much and none of it is like clearly,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I totally agree, Like he doesn't pay off Batman. He
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: put nipples on Batman, which is maybe the most famous
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: thing he's ever definite, and you can tell he's like
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: trying to go for David Lynch kind of it just
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: totally fails, but it fails spectacularly. Like the first I
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: can't remember exactly how many times it like six times
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: total that people die in this movie either way, the
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: first three just look like he took a clip from
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: like a discarded David Lynch short. And then eventually you
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: go to Kevin Bacon's and then it looks like, oh,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: his version of death is a screensaver, you know, like
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: everyone's version of death is just like it's, oh God,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: it's it's bad. Well, why not use this opportunity to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: do the recap? Okay, here I go FLATLINERDS. It's got
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a bit of an ensemble cast, but our main character
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: is Nelson played by Keefer Sutherland, and he is a
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: med student along with four fellow at school students who
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: go to again school in an art museum in an
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: empty building, and he's interested in seeing what might be
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: out there after death, like if they're sort of a
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: life after death or what happens where you go, and
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: he's interested in exploring this, so he and all his
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: med school friends basically they medically kill themselves for like first,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: it's like a minute or a minute a half or
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: something like that, and then they keep going for longer
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and longer, but they're betting too, yeah, longer, So after
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: they've been dead for a minute or so, then they
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: revived them and they have to give him a shot
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: of morphine and do their defibrillators and all that stuff,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and they she's back mouth to mouth like this, only
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: the sexy characters get to give mouth to mouth. I
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: turned it turned that day is a Schumacher rule. If
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you're not in the top three most fuckable characters per
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the story, you're not going to be given mouth to mouth.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: You're not going to have mouth to mouth administered to you.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Oliver Platt, no way. Everyone else, literally everyone else in
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the cast takes their shirt off at some point, except,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of course, it goes without saying that. It turns out,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of movies that Oliver Plats, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: he's a character actor. He's in a lot of stuff,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and you just don't realize that till later. I have
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a huge crush on him now, he's my favorite person.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: He's in a time to kill another Schulmacher or ship show.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I've actually seen any Joel Schumacher
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: movies besides this the number twenty three Batman boys. I
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: haven't seen last one. Wow, did you see saying almost fire? No?
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: I've seen almost no movies for someone falling down? Yes? Yeah?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Do you ever see falling Down? No? Wow? What's it
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: about it about falling out? Like? Kind of a cool premise,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: but like again, poorly execute. Everything is wasted until Schumacher
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: goes without saying, well back to all I had to say,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I'll replet all for Billina easily could have played this part,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: but I'll reply, did a great job. Go ahead and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: agree with that. I've gound to make some charts with
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: the Platt Molina dichotomy. This is like opened up sort
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: of a new All the performances in the movie are good. Yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: everyone's good. Keif for Sutherland plays the best key for
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Southerlan and I've ever seen keeper? How does he have
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: time to be a full time medical student, constantly dying
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and maintain his bleached roots? I love his hair in
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: this movie, it's bananas and not even Frosty Tips, just
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Frosty Jack frost Key for frost Baby. Bacon's great. Yeah,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Bacon shines even uh Billy Baldwin. Even I was like, Okay,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: it's weird. It's like like how he's supposed to be
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: like the hot man, Like how hot he is. There's
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of Yeah, there's a lot of like hot
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: lady men with very different phases, which I feel like
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen anymore, Like everyone has the same face. Billy
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Baldwin's big movie after this Sliver with Sharon Stone, I
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: still have never seen it again. It's like the voyeuristic
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: thing of like videotaping sex and people in hotels who
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: don't know that being videotaped in that whole thing. That's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: just the vibe gives off. He seems like he'd be
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: taping like don't get into bed with this man. I love.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Love is not the word, but the look Billy Baldwin
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: gives his own camera while fucking for him to watch
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: later of him smirking at you're just like smirking at himself.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Here's no doubt mast He's like, yeah, what's up, future me?
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And also if he is. Okay, just from a logistical obviously,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: almost everything Billy Baldwin does is illegal in this movie,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: and it's sort of sometimes played for humor, which like
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: perfect it's like Oliver Platt, but he also says, what
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: pussy marauder? Right, that's great. But Billy Baldwin logistically, he
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: knows he's filming this, he knows the angle. Presumably he
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: set it up that, but it's still it's always angle
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: that his it's missionary. He's like he's looking at his
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: own ascid face. Who rights not. Yeah, we didn't really
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: think that through. I don't think no, I think he
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: did the gime and he just wants to watch it himself.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Fuck I think. And also you know, it's like Kevin
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Bacon and Kiefer they like make amends in it. He doesn't.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: He just kind of gets busted. Well that's done. That
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: was the point I during the discussion. So just holding,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: are we still recapping the Sorry? Sorry I screwed up
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the recap by explaining something that happened in the movie.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: And also cute So first Nelson he'd kill himself. Okay,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: good Simpsons reference. Thank you. I love the recap I'm
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: telling you it's the best part of the episode. It
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: always takes four uh and I'm not sorry. So anyway,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Nelson is the first one to die see what happens
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: after death, and then Billy Baldwin and his vision he
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: likes he's like a lot of video, Robert Palmer music video.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And then Julie Roberts character Dr. Mannus is like, I
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: want to go next, and Kevin Bacon is like, no, me,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and they sort of get into this bidding more and
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: then then we have a crash in each other rights.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: And then Kevin Bacon's character goes next. His name is
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: David Labrashio, which when you read it out it sort
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of looks like lab rat almost but with like sees
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, what a fun, purposeful and whoever. Like,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that's like one of those moms where you see something
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: so cute either you're just like, oh, the screenwriter is
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: jerking himself off right now. He's so fucking proud of himself, right,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: He's like, people thirty years from now we're going to
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: see that and be like, oh, my fucking god, what
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a smart guy. Yeah, I sure did. Oh yeah. And
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Billy Baldwin's character is Dr Joe Hurley, and he makes
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: you hurl the land. He has no first name or
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: last name. It's just some of the other characters are
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: like on IMDb are listed as like doctor rachel Man
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: as doctor Joe Hurley, but he's just Nelson. Are we
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to believe he's not a doctor? Well, they're all in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: medical school, alright, they're not doctors. I don't know what
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I think about this movie. Also, the first scene, Kevin
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Bacon isn't in this movie. He's scaling a building because
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: he gets kicked out of school and he's not allowed
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to use the doors. He's suspended for four months. So
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: he decides to rick like he had to go on
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to the roof of the building first to ring up
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: the ropes to then like scale the building, climbs out
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: of a second story. When they're make a casual conversation,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: who are you a back you next semester? And Kevin
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Bacon scaling, but he's like, it doesn't matter, I'd do
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the same thing again, which is which is what you understand?
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: What why? He sort of intervened with like a patient
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: came in who was dying and they needed to save
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: her life, and he sort of intervened, was like, I'm
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: going to do this, and I think he saved her,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: but he was like out a line, or he shouldn't
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: have done it, or he didn't follow procedures done it. Yeah,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: so he gets suspended from school. Couldn't be further apart.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Keith's on the ground and and Kevin's on the building,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and then as soon as he lands, it's like extreme
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: close up, extreme close up. There's a lot of weird
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: tight shots in this movie, one of my favorites. Well,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: let recap, get through this recap, and then we can Sorry,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Kevin began just entered. We've we've gone back about a
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: half that we've rewinded. I'm going to fast forward again. Finally,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: it's Julia Roberts character's turn and he goes, which sounds
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: like again there's that screenwriter drinking himself off. And then
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: the visions that they have as they have been dead
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: for these few minutes, they're trying to make sense of
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: them and they're like, well, I did see something I
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: don't know what. And then like meanwhile, Kevin Bacon's He's like,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I'm an atheist, but I saw something I don't know
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: And then these sort of visions start to come back
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and like kind of haunt them and torment them, and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you realize they're all things from these people's past, sins
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that they've committed, or something that they feel guilty or
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: responsible for, and they start to come back and torment them.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And especially bad for Nelson because you find out that
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: he bullied a kid to death, and he's like, oh no,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: and this this kid by mahoney, I didn't even have
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to rewatch the movie today. Remember, Remember, sometimes I'll see
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a kid in like a red hooded sweatshirt with the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: hood up and I go, Billy, mahoney, Well, here's the
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: thing I wanted to mention. So remember when Nelson's in
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon's truck. They're out in the woods and he's
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: just sitting there and you see a little like kid
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: with the red hood up scurry by. Do you think
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: that's a nod to the Donald Sutherland movie Don't look
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: now saying they that little person? Well, consider he's buying
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the red considering it's Joel Schumacher and he's made a
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: career of ripping off other movies. Yes, I wonder you know,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: He's like, how funny would it be if Key for
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Sutherland and we did this like visual nod to a
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Donald Sutherland movie. That's the god how annoying for key
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: for something. So I can't make one fucking movie. So
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I had I had a note in in in my
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: movie notes to make a point to look up later.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I just remembered, Uh, it says Billy Mahoney today hot
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: or not? And I just did the appropriate Google searches
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: answer not. But he's doing very well. He is a
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: principal and portfolio manager at Argyle Capital Partners. Good for him,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and he still uses hair gel and he's in l A.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Let's call him up. Let's call let's call this guy up,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Billy Mahoney. It's his real name, Joshua Rudoy. Boy. Can
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that kid wheeled a hockey stick? Yeah? That's fun. Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: So this kid beats the ship out of Keeper Sutherland
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: a few times and in the most evil dead too
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: way where it's just he finally gets him and then
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: it's just slapstick fighting and likes the loogie in his mouth. Yeah,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that was the only point in the movie where I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: had to look away. That was an extended loogie. Yeah,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: it was. It was gross. So then this kid's tormenting
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: him and you find out it's because he bullied him
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and he fell out of a tree and died hit
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: him in the head with a rock, and everyone else
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: like trying to everyone else is like sort of taking
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: measures to correct the wrongs that they did in their past.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: That are what's great is when the when Billy Mahoney dies,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Like the two kids that are with Keefer are like, oh, dude,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: what the fuck the last rock? They also like, you
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: did that, dude, and it paralyzes that dog and the
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ham hamp It's like fun, how like half that out.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: A lot of these plot points are because the only
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: reason Julia Roberts thinks that it's her fault that her
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: dad died is because her mom turns to her and
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: it's very dramatically like it's your right, Like her whole life,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: she thought she killed her dad by walking in on
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: him in the bathroom. But yeah, but it's like that
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: doesn't make it, doesn't He runs out of the bathroom
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: and I mean, I get from a five year olds
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: perspective how that would feel like it was. Well, Also,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: mom flat out set up, so he's like, well, I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: have to make amends, and he thinks that the only
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: way to do that is to go back under Nelson's like, yeah,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: I gotta go kill myself again because Billy's also dead,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So how else is he going to make amends? I
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: think he does this with the intention that he'll just
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: remain dead. But then all his friends are like, oh no,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: he's killing himself again. We gotta save him. But in
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: his afterlife, because he's dead for like twelve minutes, and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: in that time he manages to like the roles are reversed,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: and now he's up in the tree and he falls,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: and that somehow makes everything better, Which is why I
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: hate the ending of this movie. It doesn't make any
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: sense to me anyway. I just don't like it. I mean,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: you know how it feels. But then, like, how does
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: that somehow absolve him of any guilt? Like it just
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like, well, I feel like the only absolving
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: of guilt that makes sense of all four of them
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: is Kevin Bacon like that because he act, he's the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: only one who actually goes and makes an amends. Right.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: But and but in this it's like almost sort of
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: to Julia Roberts, We'll get to this, but like her
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: resolution has like a weird magical element about it where
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: she finds out new information that doesn't I don't know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: like none of them really line up with each other.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I guess that Billy Balin's abandoned and that's good, right, Well,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: he's still like kind of fucked up even in the climax,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: and it's like nothing's been resolved with this guy. He's
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think he deserves any sort of atonement like, well,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: because he doesn't, because he doesn't continue to do it.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I think probably whether or not he had participated in
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: this at all. Well, she comes to visit him, the
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: fiance because of how disturbed he was on the phone,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: so that that does instigate it. But he just gets busted, right,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and she brings up with him, which is punishment, But
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: he doesn't do anything to make it right. He doesn't know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. But do we even see him like delete
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the tapes or anything. No, In fact, it's not clear
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: that he actually feels guilty for anything he's done, or
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: if he's just mad he gets caught, Yeah, because it's
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: not what you think. It's like she thinks you're fucking
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: other women in videotaping it without their knowledge, right, And
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: then she's like, yes, it is slam, but it's not so.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Videotaping women during sex without their permission or knowledge is
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: horrible and I'm guessing it's probably a crime. So it's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a crime, and it's also just morally repugnant. But also
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: the scene where the different women are repeating back things
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: that he has said to them, there's one that you're like,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: there's a few. Well, there's one where she's like, you said,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: we didn't have to do anything, we just want here underwear,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: we can stop. When I was like, oh, so he's
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: also a rapist. He's gone above and beyond this videotaping
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: when also where the fund does he live? Like do
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: you remember that scene where it's like in the hospital
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and then they pan up and Billy Baldwin's fucking none
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: of the locations make any sense. That's never called back
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to it because like later on it looks like he
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: just has a two floor apartment. But there is one
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: shot where you're like watching something happen on the lower
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: floor and then it pans up and he's fucking a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: lady and filming it very confused. Yeah, it's like is
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: this but then you see like his dorm a later
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: scene where he's going he's entering into an apartment building
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: from outside and that lady is sort of like harassing
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, because he's so you should have been
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: like Kevin Bacon, he forgot to bring his grappling hook.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: He just scaled the building up to his room. It
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: is funny I never thought of until right now, but
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: there's almost foreshadowing that Schumacher will direct a Batman movie. Yeah,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: in that scene of Kevin Bacon just casscading down the building. Well,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: not to not to bring it back to Fantom with
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the opera. However, it is in the early nineties when
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Sir Angrew Lord Webber decides that he wants Joel Schumacher
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: to direct his Phantom movie, even though it doesn't come
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: out for fifteen years. So I enjoyed taking a step
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: back and watching all these fog machine scenes like everywhere,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: like the drug store is foggy, the bars foggy, the
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: streets foggy, the hospital's foggy. And then see like Andrew
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Lord Webber, like this is an excellent fit. This guy
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: gets me well mediocre, no subtlety match made in Heaven.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that scene? It's right after Nelson has
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: been revived there in this sort of alley way constantly
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: in alleys, so many alleys. There no one lives in
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: this city Chicago. Do they go to Northwestern? I don't
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: know where they go to school anyway, not the still
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: don't matter in this bag. At one point they were
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: in a capital looking like in front of the Halloween
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: parties in front of the Capital looking building. So for
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a while I thought they might be in d C.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: But then about an hour and ten minutes and you're like, oh,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I guess this is Chicago, right, But so he's in
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: an alley and he sees Champ for the first time,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: like dragging his legs around, and they're in this alley
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: with like these like neon green faces like painted on
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the wall, like these murals almost, and it's like these
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: like spooky faces. And there's no other imagery like that
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: at any other point in the movie. So it seems
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: like really random and out of place that those are there,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: because like that imagery just doesn't match up with anything
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: else that's in the movie. There's always a red light
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: somewhere in the background in every scene, and just like
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: who who is your production designed what we're probably Joel Schumacher. Yeah,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: he's just like, hey, do we have about a bunch
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: of spotlights and a fog machine. Don't worry, I've got this.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Getting into the discussion of the things that we talked
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: about on this podcast, obviously have to mention that Julia
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Roberts character Dr. Rachel manis a woman in stem but
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: also she's she's not No. One in this movie as
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: a doctor, not officially, but you do see here. So um.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: The first actual point I wanted to make is that
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I would argue that her character plays just as active
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: as a role as each of her male counterparts. So
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: she's doing every time they're killing the person and then
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: bringing them back to life, she's playing an active role
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: in doing different things, administering different shots of adrenaline, or
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I would argue it's morphine, um, you know, resuscitating them
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and using the defibrillators which I thought it was defibrillator.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It is a defibrillator, which sounds stupid to me, but
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: it's well, it does seem like her character, and Kevin
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Bacon calls us out in a in a vaguely sexist
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: but somewhat clear way in one of their scenes. It
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: does seem like she's like the most respected of the group,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Like she and Kevin Bacon seemed to be the alpha
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: doctors in the group. Yeah, whereas clear that she's essential
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to the operation from moment one because he's like, I
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: need you to handle the injections in the ivy. So
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: she plays a crucial role in the story. The problem
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: is when you add up all of those main five characters,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: her role means that only of it is something a
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: woman is doing, and then eight percent of it is dudes.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: It's major tokenism. Yeah, and interestingly, because the reason we're
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: doing this movie now is because there is a it's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: not a remake apparently the people because Nelson's because right,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: because Keeper's back, baby, I hope he's got the same hair. Uh.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And there are two female leads in the new one.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: It's Ellen Page and Nino Dobrev a k A Vampire
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Diaries Lady Lady for you, Big Degrassi. I thought there
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: might have even been three. There's also Kirscy Clemens. Oh
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. Okay, So as far as I can
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: also die from Dirty Dancing Havana Nights, Luna, I know
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: him as the guy from the Star Wars movie, and
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: also I think he's better for dirty dancing and yes,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, and he's also in ech Mama Dumbien.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: But he's pretty sure you can see you do see. So,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: as far as I can tell, the five main men's
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: students in the sequel, two of them I think are
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: men and three of them are women. Hard to say, though,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out which character is doing which things,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: so I might be wrong about that. Either way, it
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: seems like there will be a little bit more of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a gender balance in this sequel. So hey, but Julia
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Roberts character is major league tokenism in in the main ensemble,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: it does seem like there are proportional amount of women
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: at the medical school because we see Julia Roberts talking
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: with there's another doctor who I think has a name,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: which I think is Edna. We see her talking to
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Na a couple of times, and then the professor that
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: keeps busting in and saying, you're all gonna get f
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: everything's writing on this I haven't to You're in competition
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: with each other. Rip open your could ever to not
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: be distracted by the artwork on the wall, don't put
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: on clubs. No one cuts, but she's you know, she's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: she's intracted, doesn't seem like she's doing a particularly good job,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: but she's in charge. So there are female figures, but
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: it's just not accurately reflected. I'm on the IMDb page
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: right now because I was trying to figure out I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: was listening for in the movie, and I wasn't sure
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: if I missed it. If the old woman that Julia
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Roberts talks to a number of times has a name,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: she does not. She is credited as terminal woman. Also
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: feels worth mentioning that eleven different actresses are credited as
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Joe's woman from that from that scene up the staircase.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: What a horrible way to frame that horrible. Yeah. Well,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the woman in the one of the very early scenes
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that Julia Roberts is talking to asking her what her
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: like near death experience was like, she does not have
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: a name. But the elderly woman that she talks to
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: does have a name, and she names her. It's Mrs Amsler.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Is this the woman who dies? Yeah? Oh, she's credited
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: as terminal weird. Well, she does have calls her. She's like,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you're doing better today, Mrs Amsler something. Yeah, because I
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: assumed that she must have at some point. Okay, she does, well,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: that changes things. The doctor she talks to does have
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: a name, yes, and she calls her by name as well.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Another thing about rachel Man is that everyone's trying to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: suck her. Yeah, maybe not Oliver Platt, but but like
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: what he turned down the opportunity. No, it would prob
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: be an honor for him, but earlier it's almost not.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: In the movie, he's the only one of the five
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: who does not. Ever, he does not participate in the
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: moment love. He's dressed like Harry Potter for the whole movie,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: is wearing the same dumbass scarf he says, pussy marauder.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: He does a lot of exposition, like he's there for
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: exposition because he's literally recording major plot points into a
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: tape recorder for right portion of the movie. Billy Baldwin
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: tries to pick her up in like the first series. Really,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: He's like, are you dating anyone? Just open up and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: maybe we can get together for some serious thinking. And
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: later you're like, oh, she probably knows he's engaged, right, Yeah,
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: he's engaged. Yeah right, So no wonder she is the
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: woman that we see him having sex with in the
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: beginning that he's videotaping. Is that his fiance or not
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: it's a different woman because he's videotaping it, right, And
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: then it always says something like I gotta get one
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: last thing in before I get married, and then flat
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: whips out pussy Marada. If that's not a scream out band,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be So that happens. And then whenever Nelson's about
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: to go under for the first time, he asks Julia
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Roberts for one last kiss. And then the next morning,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: after he wakes up after having flatlined, he's in his bed,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: she's taking his pulse and then he says something like, um, god,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you're beautiful, and she sort of like moves away from him,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and she like grabs her and pulls her back, and
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: he's like, about twenty four hours ago, you didn't think
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you'd spend the night here, and she's just like she
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: said something like you were lucky last night, Nelson, don't
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: push it, and then walks away. But it's like, what
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a weird able to interact with. It seemed like they
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: had slept together. Yeah, it seems like there was also
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: a moment after he flatlined when they're like driving to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the bar where she like touches his shoulder. There's I
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: feel like it's at least implied that there's some sort
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: of history, but maybe that she doesn't want it to continue,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: because then later she sleeps with Kevin Bacon's character, right,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: she fries up some Bacon. I think I sanctioned that relationship.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: I think that if she's gonna they both have the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: best hair, exactly good hair, and they're both like the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: most competent of the group, So it makes doctors best hair. Yeah,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: it makes sense. She's a bunch of senior superlatives and
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: they've got all of them. Yeah, med school superlatives. Baby,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: do we feel like we understand why the group is
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: pretty adamant about Julia Robbers not doing it? That's a
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: good question. Is it because she's a woman and they
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: feel protective of her? Or that was the implication that
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I got. I mean, but again with the exception of
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: all of her Platt who doesn't want anyone to die
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: at any point, but it is also very willing to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: be around because you know, we need expositions. Sometimes we
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: gotta shave off minutes on this movie, even though that's
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: still an hour and fifty five minutes long, but it
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: feels like they don't want her to go under because
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: they have a crush on her, and I feel like
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon almost implies that at one point. Yeah, see
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: with Bacon, I can say I can't even see it
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: with Key for two because it's like he's still in
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: love with her. Kevin Bacon is currently in love with her,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: and Billy Baldwin's just a fucking I'll just try to
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: do anything that moves. But also I love that he's like, oh,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I I got I'm a filmmaker. I have a camera,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and it's like, oh yeah, camera, you use to commit crimes.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: And he's not even good at that job. Like there's
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: a million times in the movie where they're like Joe
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: film and he's like, oh yeah, I was like, why
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: else are you here? He should take some And his
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: angles are stupid. We already pointed out, like the way
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: he captures himself from like bird's eye view, It's like,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: that's not who wants to recapture that sex scene. And
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: he's only filming for like four seconds at a time,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: and it's always a slow zoom so they can fade
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: into a screensaver. But back to what you were talking about.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: There's a conversation between a doctor Rachel Mannis and a
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: doctor A David lab Ratty are not med school student
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: David Labrashio. Yeah. This is after Billy Baldwin has flatlined.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Julie's like, I want to go next, keep getting pushed
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I want to go, and then, like Kevin Bacon, outbids
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: are basically he's like, I'll go for longer, and she's
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: kind of match storms out and he catches up with
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: her and she's like, no one seems to want me
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: to go under. I don't need your protection. He's like, well,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I just decided that if someone is smart and driven
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: as you are and incredibly beautiful, that part was just
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: like oh he was so close. Yeah, and then he
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: was like He's like it makes the rest of us nervous,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: which I think, I don't even know if it's an implication.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: It's like pretty straight up being like, we don't want
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: you to go under. We got to protect you. You're
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the woman, you're smartest. Even though she's the one who
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: keeps being like I want to go because this is
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: her passion, she's interviewing people to figure out what's happening
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: after if they have a near death experience. She wants
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: to know and she wants to get that firsthand experience,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: and they're all just like no. And Kevin Bacon even
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: says she gives the best reason for wanting to do it,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and she totally does, because, like Keifer says a couple
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: different times, like we're going to be famous, right, I'm
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: gonna be on sixty minutes. Yeah, yeah, And then she's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I wanna a lot of people close to me have died.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: I want to see if they've gone to a better place.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: And if you believe in that sort of thing. Sure,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: that's a good reason to flatline yesh. I think she
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: does have the best reason. Yeah, because Keifer. I don't
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: know that anyone besides Keifer offers a reason. Like Bacon says, well,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I'm the control subject, so I'll go under because I'm
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the kind of bully him for being an atheist. He's like, oh, yeah,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: does the atheist suddenly believe in God? Well, I think
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: this is like it's not an Atheast joint, it's a
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: shoemak or joint. There's a lot of heavenly imagery. Sure,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I guess, or what he would perceives. But anyway, so
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: that conversation when he's like, oh, you're just so smart
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and driven and incredibly beautiful, she gives this look that's like, okay,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I'll take that compliment, and then she changes the subject.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: It's just like, no, just off camera, who made more
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: money and like it was more money spent on paying
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Oliver Platt or buying fog machines. I feel like it
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: was probably very close for this movie. The other main
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: point I wanted to make about this movie is that
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Julia Roberts character is the only one who's like sin
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: from her past the comes back to haunt her is
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: something that happened to her rather than something that she
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: did like the other ones. With Nelson, it's Billy Mahoney.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: He killed him accidentally or not probably not accident because
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: he was bullying him and throwing rocks at him right. Uh.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And then with Kevin Bacon's character, he also bullied a
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: child Winnie Hicks. Winnie Hicks, who is thriving. Yeah, she's
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: got a huge house in a big greenhouse. We should
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: talk about her really. Yeah, that was an interesting scene.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: That was the scene that I was a little bit
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: It was like one of those scenes that I feel
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: like we'd come across very frequently. I was like, Oh,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: this scene could have passed the back Toles has so easily,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't. Where her daughters are the whole time
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: and has a name but never has a line. Maybe
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: was the daughter's name Sheila? Oh? She She says a
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: couple different times, Sheilla go away, go away, and trying
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to talk to Kevin Bacon, and she'lla never responds, but
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: she keeps like entering and exiting this scene. But that
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I like that character of of
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Winnie Hicks. And but I think that has a lot
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: to do with the fact that Kevin Bacon's resolution is
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: really the only one that's actually satisfying of the whole
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: cat right, because he's the only one. So going back
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: to what I was saying earlier is that hers is
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the only passive one where something happened to her. She
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: sees her father and we later find out that he
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: was I guess shooting up Heroin. And then because she's
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: a lot of the Vietnam that's coming back, man, they
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: couldn't deal with what happened in that goddamn hell hoole.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: It's all your fault and they got to do heroin
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: or maybe hey, maybe it was morphine, my favorite drug,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: all purpose drug, intravenous. You can use morphine for anything.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: You can use it to bring you back to the life.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: You can shoot up and have a great dish. Anyway,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: So he's shooting up heroin, she sees it. I guess
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: he feels guilty that his daughter witnessed. So he goes
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: outside and kills himself, Which that doesn't make a whole
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: lot of sense to me, but maybe clearly the gentleman
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: had problems. Sure, who knows what happened when he was
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: in that denang pit of hell. But it's weird that
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: that that, like the whole sequence I mean, and I
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: guess you can sort of narratively write it off of like, well,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: it's a child's recollection. It's probably not right. And it's
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: also we only see like Mom in the moment say
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: it's your fault. That was probably her whole life after that,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: being driven in her head by her freaking allan on Mom,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: who's just like you did this. Well, the thing with
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that is that it means her redemption was passive also,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: like she just has to go and watch the scene
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: unfold a little more and then she just hugs her
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: dad and then everything's fine. But she gets he because
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: she's weighed down by this guilt. So he gets to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: relieve her of the guilt. She gets to forgive herself
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: he and and she gets to forgive him, and that's fine.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: My point is that the choice was made. She was
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: the only one who had something happened to her passively.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Is it because she was a woman? Is it a coincidence?
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Hard to say, but either way, the choice was made
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: so that the only female character of the main bunch
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: had a very passive sin and then redemption. So it's
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: just sort of perpetuating this idea that like a woman
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: was feeling guilty well and also like to reduce it
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: even for the main female character has serious daddy issues
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: like that is something we've seen a hundred thousand times,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: and we don't see anyone else's parents reference out of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the main cast. Thank you for like verbalizing it. I
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: guess in that way because I was sort of at
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: the end of the movie, I was like, Julia roberts
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: storyline is the only one that has a sort of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: magical resolution, where key for Billy and Bacon yep did it,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: and Billy and Bacon the amazing spinoff series that ran
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: for eleven seasons afterwards. None of their resolutions, however, satisfying
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: or unsatisfying, resulted in them receiving any new information. It
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: was them somehow dealing with information that they already had.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: And then where Julie. It's a reveal like it's a
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: reveal that herd I was a drug definitely which and
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: again passive. So it's just like I like and it
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: throws a wrench into the logic of the movie of
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: you know, like sort of the lesson is like, well,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you've got a tone for the bad things you do
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: in life. But Julia Rours didn't do anything bad, but
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: she somehow receives a message from the beyond that you know,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: your dad was addicted to heroin, which is what she wanted.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: She wanted to make sure her dad was okay, and
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: that she didn't. She was way down by this guilt
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: and then she was able to contact him and him
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: be like, you didn't do anything. It was me who
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: did it, right? I don't know. Like the spiritual elements
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: of this movie are kind of all over the place.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: In Confused definitely like there's no there's no rhyme or
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: reason to like. And it's weird because I feel like
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Rachel's storyline is the one that really introduces the weird,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: like wait, wondering what are their rules here? And it
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: is also like three of them it's just ship that
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: happened when they were kids, and so they just they're
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: still kind of adult children. They can't process what happened.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Where's Billy Baldwin is currently a piece of ship and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: he's the only one who's not making it right. Yeah,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: he doesn't do anything. He's a rapist and a sex criminal.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: And there's that scene where like they all start to
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: realize that each of them is like being tormented by
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: the ghosts of their past, and uh, they're turning to
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: buy the ghost of Christmas present. But Billy Baldwin reveals
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, these women I videotaped them and they
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: didn't know about it. Women complaining and then all my
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: sex crimes and Oliver Platt's characters like, oh, you you pervert,
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: And then Kevin Bacon doesn't even address it. He moves on.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: He was like, how about you, Nelson, who are you seeing?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: And he's like oh this kid Billy mahoney, but like
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: he just changes the subject after Billy Baldwin has revealed
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: that he's a fucking sex criminal and everyone's just like, oh, well,
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: let's move on. Well that's part of Billy Baldwin thing
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: where it's like again like a weird dissonance. Like sometimes
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: it's played as well, yeah, this is his major wrong
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: as he's wronged all these women then womanizers kind of
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: what the right. It's never it's never stated or even
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: implied that what he's doing is a crime, but then
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: other moments it's like played for humor of like calling
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: a sex criminal pervert and then moving on to the
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: next plat point is obviously very irresponsible, and he's he's
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: sort of I feel like, presented along with Oliver flat
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: as like the goofear of the character. I mean, you
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: could argue that the fact that this is what's tormenting
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: him is the movie's way of saying, like this, he
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: did a bad thing, but he's hardly punished for it,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: and he doesn't do anything to redeem himself or try
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: to make any amends. He does get broken up with
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: by his fiance, but he doesn't even seem that upset
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: about it, like eventually and does Basically, I want his
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: dick to stop working. That's the only way I think.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: So does that make his and the actor stopped working?
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: That's stroking a cat right now. Yeah, well what does
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: that mean that there are two resolutions that are passive?
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: If Billy Baldwin doesn't do anything, he doesn't even really
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: get a resolution because the other three. Not that he
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: deserves one, but I'm thinking, but something does happen to him.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: He does get dumped, and I'm not saying that that's
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: a fair punishment. It certainly is not. Um that should
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: be step one of a series of punishments that end
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: with him serving jail time. Maybe she went and called
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the cops afterwards, Let's hope that port that girl and
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: they go. The narrative goes out of the way to
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: be like, she's a student, she's working hard, she's she
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: you know, she lives far away, and you're like, okay, cool,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: she's she seems like a cool lady. And then she
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: did you know, they do a little bit. I'm pretty
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: sure she has a name. Yeah that's the bar. Yeah,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh, she has a name, and they said
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: she went to school so good for them. They did
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: it feminism right. I like Billy Baldwin's character's line when
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: he's like trying to pick up Rachel because he says
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: something like, these rumors I've been hearing about you, they're
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: not true. You're not some cold, frigid woman. I bet
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: you're very warm and well. And and that's another amazing
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: blockbuster recurrence of like, oh she's she's got goals and
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: she's good at something. She must be a fid Oh.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: You know what I was gonna say. You know what
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: dawned on me is the fact that her sin more
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: or less is um totally passive. She didn't do anything.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like the Hollywood logic is you can't
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: have the female character have done anything wrong because then
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: the audience would not forgive her and just see her
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: as a bitch the whole time, you know what I mean. Yeah,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Whereas like the men can't have the redemption, but the
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: woman it's like, oh, no, fuck her, she fucking did
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: that to so and so. Because where I feel like
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: we're socialized to I think that like women have to
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: be perfect little angels all the time. They can't make mistakes.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And because I remember I did a commercial once and
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: the actress was playing my wife, and like the director
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: was like, you, you have to smile throughout the entire scene. Otherwise,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: like the clients are like, she's being mean to him, right,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: that type of and and it sort of plays to
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: like a virginal kind of or like whatever, spirtually virginal,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: like she's untainted. And it turns out that that's an
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: amazing point. Yeah, oh god, right, because if anything, it
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: would have I mean, I'm not saying this in any
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: other way of like it would have made sense if
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: she had also bullied like a girl when she was
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: growing up. There's almost no coming back from that from
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: a character standpoint of looking at like, oh god, even
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: with the scene, if it was and Whinnie Hicks, I
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: bet the Hollywood view would be, like, people still won't
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: get on her side, even the lovable Julia Roberts, because yeah,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: with like with Keeford bullying for killed a kid and
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: he's it was hard for me to by the end
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: of this movie, I was not on Keefer's side, but
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like you are supposed to be still definitely,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: but ultimately it's like he's doing it to himself. He's
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: literally beating himself up over it, you know. But it's
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: a delicate thing because if if Winnie Hicks hadn't been
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: so well off, would we be so quick to forgive
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon, Like if her life had been yeah, you'd
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: be like, look what you did to her as opposed
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: to you could even make the argument, well, you instilled
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: her with character, and you know that she overcame, and
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. Everyone in this movie, besides Julia Roberts,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: like all the male characters get off too easy, because
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: even like the the end scene with Billy Mahoney, after
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Keefer Sutherland as an adult gets crushed by a tree
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: comes up and he like smiles, yeah, and he's like, oh,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: he forgives I think that why, that's because they were kids.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: They were kids. I'm not defending saying it's dumb. I
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: think that it has to do like where current climate
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: considered it. It is harder to get on board with
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: someone who did a horrible thing being forgiven. But the
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: point I wanted to make about that is that like
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: keep for bullying Billy Mahoney, Kevin Bacon's character bullying Winnie,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: those are like we're socialized. There's Wow, boys will be boys.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Boys are just mean little bullies, okay, and then and
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: then when they grow up, that's their chance to be like, Okay,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: they've they've grown up, they've matured, and now they can
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: apologize and everything they find. But where it's like, like
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: you were saying, women, you know, we're socialized to view
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: women differently, so like there's we just don't we're not
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: going to be like, oh, girls will be girls. You know,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: girls always being schoolyard bullies and oh, it's okay, they'll learn,
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll be nicer when they're older. Like that's not
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: how or will they women? It seems like flawed but
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: still sympathetic female protagonist is a relatively new thing to
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: be excepted. Like usually the woman with the flaw is
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: the villain, right as opposed to like where I think,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: you know, you could earn past past, which a couple
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: of years, like there's even like even a few years
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: after this was my best friend's wedding, and I remember
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of people coming away from that movie being
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: like I don't like Julia Roberts, like she was a
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: she's the hero quote unquote of the movie. But it's
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: like a woman doing it leaves a bad taste in
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the audience's mouth, especially in this country. You know, watching
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: movies where they're like, oh, what a bit she was
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: and poured Cameron Diaz and blah blah blah blah blah,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: which is like ridiculous, because for a character to be
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: interesting and dynamic and multidimensional, they have to have flaws
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: like which is probably part of why so many female
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: characters are underwritten and underdeveloped, because they're like, well, I
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: have a very vague and limited understanding of women as
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: a male screenwriter. So she's this person who's nice, and
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: she's nice, and that's all she is. She's but also
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: she's hot, and if she's not nice, then she's right right,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: not hot enough that because then she's because then she's unrelatable.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: But if she is, then she's the villain, and then
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: that's her only quality. Also is that she's mean. That's
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: not how people are. They don't have just one quality.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: I have to and they're under my shirt. We're back
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: to that again. Oh that. The first thing I wanted
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: to say was like, it'd be great if they really
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: made it. Well, who knows what they'll do with the sequel,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: But it's like for it to be a true redemption
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: story because it's like making an amend's isn't just saying
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. To make an amend's means to make something right,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: like how can I fix this? How can I make
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: this right? And that's very compelling, I think, And with
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: you know, the majority of the leads in the New
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: One being female, that should be quite interesting if they
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: take that approach of like you know, writing or wrong.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: The other thing I was going to say was maybe
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: for me, the most sexist part of the movie was
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the fact that the other three take their shirts off,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: but Julie Roberts has to keep her bra on because
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: she's a lady, and not for sexual reason but for
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: sure scientific purposes, Like they have to shock her. They
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: put those pads on her bra it would burst into flames.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Who didn't think of that? Yeah, And it's like there's
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: like a metal coil in it, Like it would have
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: been a disaster. They would have blown up the art.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: She was not to them in that respect, she couldn't
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: be bare chest. Um, I mean that might be because
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: of like probably no contract and like they could have
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: implied right, oh sure, sure, And I think just like
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: the legistical blockbuster rating system. I think, well, this wasn't R,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't it. It must have been. It must have been
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: said fucking little boys murdered, scary forgiving, But you're right
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: with um. Even Kevin Bacon, who was the only one
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: who's sort of actively pursues trying to redeem himself. All
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: he does is to same, sorry, sorry, right, And then
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: she says like, I forgive you because I'm nice. I'm
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: a woman and I'm nice. Right. Yeah. Also, and then
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: we just see like she has a greenhouse. She's fine,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: she's killing it. And then she even I'm not in
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: med school, but I have a greenhouse, and he's like
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: she likes running in with like stacks of twins. She's like, mom,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: where should I put all this money? It will need it,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: we don't need it. It was rated R. There you
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: go restricted. Okay, Well then they couldn't. Then then my
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: my breast argument falls apart. Let's discuss whether or not
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: the movie passes the Bechtel test based on the assumption
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: that the old lady has Mrs Malcolm Powder what's her name?
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Mrs Antler is Antler, So then in that case it passes.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: In the first scene with two women. The woman she
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: talks to in that first scene when she's interviewing those people,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: that first lady is not named. Oh sorry, I was
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: referring to the old woman. Is the first scene that
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: passed for me? Got it even before that, when she's
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: interviewing the two women, we don't there are two women
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: there in addition to them. Do we get the younger
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: one of them is Terry name. Terry's like, I saw
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: a light in a tunnel in a chariot and it
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: was beautiful. And she's like, Terry, Terry, you need to
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: get off your medication. But maybe that one doesn't count
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: because they were kind of talking about God and as
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: everyone knows God as a man, let's get into it.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I want this episode to be four hours. Uh. And
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: then in the scene after that, it passes again because
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Julia and Edna and there's like, there's trouble in the
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: e er and she's like, why are you always asking
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: her patients about death? And Julie's like, I'm going to
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: be late for class, thanks edenough. But she's always asking
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: people about death because of her dad. And her dad's
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: a man, right, So it all comes back to it
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: comes back to men and there's men in there, and
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: there's trouble in the r and men cause all the trouble.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: You raise some excellent points. I think all of her
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: scenes with Mrs Death pass Mrs Death yes, because she's like,
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be buried on a Saturday. It
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: caused a hundred and fifty dollars more. Is it bad
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: that by the end of was like, die already, and
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: then like when she's dad, I was like good. It
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: seems like she wanted to be dead for them. When
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Julia Robert sister, are you doing much better today? The
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: woman looks at it like, fuck you, I have wanted
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: to die. It is incredible though thinking about it, that
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: she doesn't even like the go to cliche would be
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: her talking about like her husband. Yeah. I think that
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: that does end up being a weird character because it
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: seems like she would be like the classic like old
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: person character to teach someone right. But it is also
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: it probably wouldn't work if she was talking about seeing
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Edgar again or whatever, because then she is in the
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: way the character exists in the movie. She is not
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: looking forward to die, but she's also like I just
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: want to get it fucking over with well. She even
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: said she's like I told everyone I loved them, Like
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: she makes it sound like I did all the stuff
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about my burial, like right, and then she
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: mentions like voices telling her different. And then after she
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: dies and Julia comes back to discover that, she talks
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: to Edna again and says, I wanted to tell her
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: the voices we're wrong. There's nothing beautiful out there, because
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: this is after rachel name flatlined and like, you can go,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: daddy if that was their last conversation. She's like, actually
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: should be very afraid. What if when Julie Roberts dies
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: she actually sees the movie Ghost Dad, that's a punishment
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: in the theater. Why my mom and I were going
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: to the movies? It was impossible to know. Yeah, the
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: point though about Flatliners is and then so Kevin Magant
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: on the Flatliners passes the Bechtel tests, like in four
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: different scenes, it does. I feel like this is just
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: another It's not outwardly hateful of women for them, even
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: though it's often very very misguided. But the problem, or
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: most of the Bechtel test problem stems from there's only
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: one female with any significant screen Time, which is every
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: blockbuster from the beginning of Time. There's a few exceptions,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: but well, I mean there are exceptions, but like that's
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: I wonder if if if you broke it down like
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: per per person, there's probably more women have lines in
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: the movie overall than men. It's the tertiary definitely. Like
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I'll go one further, they all fucked Billy Baldwin, and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: there's and there's also like very long scenes in this
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: movie that are all men, where I feel like the
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: exchanges we're referencing are generally excited, with the exception of
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: Julia Roberts and Mrs Death are generally pretty quick scenes. Totally.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a women's movie. No, it's a
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: Joel Schumacher movie. It's a dumb movie. With that, let's
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: rate it on our nipple scale, where we rate the
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: movie based on its portrayal of women on a scale
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: of zero to five nipples. I'm going to give it
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: to I think because Rachel Menaces character if you just
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: isolate her and her only thinking about her and her
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: portrayal is pretty good, especially just because in the scenes
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: where they're flatlining each other and then reviving each other,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: she's doing important things. She's pretty crucial to those scenes
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: in that process. However, it did really bother me that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: hers was the only sin that was completely passive and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: she didn't have to actively do anything to try to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: redeem herself. I don't know if that choice was deliberate,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: but based on our conversation of like, people don't like
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: female characters when they do bad things because we hate
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: women as a society. Yeah, that was a great point there.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: It's very hard to redeem a woman, it is, and
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: and that and then the fact that it goes into
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: your own personal experience is significant as well. I think that. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: and then also the fact that they completely the most
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: le we love letting we love McCarthy ism is what
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I would do. I'm sorry finishing I forgot I had
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: one new rule I wanted. Great, great um, but I
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: also not great that the movie mostly glasses over the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: fact that Billy Baldwin's character is a sex criminal, and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: they's not addressed when you're a rabist, but it's cute,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: you're just a little pervert videotaping a partner and not
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: letting them know. Like that's well, whether whether they know
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: or extremely illegal. But like what a problem that is
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: now with the internet, like the you know, shaming ex
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: girlfriends and all that bullshit. Yeah yeah, an early pioneer
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: revenge that in itself would have been an interesting movie
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: just exploring him, like videotaping sex without the partner's consent,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: and then him and then all the women him because
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: of it. While we're on. Okay, so this does interesting.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: This does to tell into my my rule, which which
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I've I have thought about before, I don't think I've
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: ever brought it up before, is the rule of if
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: you take an attractive actor who is perhaps committing sex
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: crimes or being a very you know, like using toxic masculinity,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: swap him out with Steve Bushemmy, how does the movie change.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: It's the new rule. I thought of it after rewatching
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Drive replays Gosling with bushem and it is a completely
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: different movie about an unhanded, fucking MANI like, if you
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: take out a sexy person and put Steve bush Emmy
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: in the role, in a toxic like male role, the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: movie changes a thousand percent. All Billy Baldwin is the character.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: All I can picture is like Steve bushemy not having
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: sex and then turning and smiling at the camera. It's
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: totally different. But I feel like that has to be
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: that should be applied because it's like, just because Billy
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Baldwin has I mean, I think he has a very
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: weird face, but like because he is attractive, the rules
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: changed for him in something, or it's cute. I don't know.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's just me, but it's like he's too good
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: looking for me to root for, right, Like I get
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: that mindset. But it's also he's just he's the least
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: likable character in the movie for me, because I just
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: think what he's like white Key for the least. But
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: but I think that, but I feel like he doesn't
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: even smile the whole movie with Keyfer, You're just like,
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: what the fucking And he's like, you know, he's the
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: tortured artist, brilliant genius going to explore the blah blah blah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: and then he turns out he killed a kid and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: he's a bully. But it's also how does he not
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: end up completely brain dead after being dead for twelve minutes,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: No doubt, I wish he had died. He should, he should,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: and then in the sequel he would just be like
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: a like a vegetable, just like kind of types with
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: a few fingers. And that's how the the new med
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: school students have to communicate with them. And he's trying
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: to tell them, don't do this, look at what happened
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: to me, and they're just like, but we gotta be on.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I think he's telling someone to touch up his blonde roots.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Someone dye this man's hair. But that's a new rule
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: we can use at our discretion that the Boushemi substitution.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: I like it. I like it a lot. By the way,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: um my two nipples that I've awarded oh yes to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: the movie belonged to Oliver Platt, because he does not
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Those were yours. Now I'm going to give my a
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: someone else should rate the movie. I was thinking two
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: and a half nipples. Julie Roberts character is the smartest
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: of the crew. They keep saying at every point they
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: can't do it without her. I give my I give
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: two of them to Julia, and then half one to
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: the dead Lady big Up, Mrs Death, Mrs Deaf, and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: Mrs Death Fire half a withered nipple. I'm going to
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: give it to as well, for pretty much all the
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: reasons stated I think Matt's point really about about the
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: female character and needing to be likable. Put Julia roberts
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Ark in perspective for me a lot and Robert the
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: movie of Half of a Nipple, because she is the
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: most capable, but she's also sort of given the least
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: dimension because she cannot be seen as unlikable or two flawed. Um,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: her arc is the least archie. It's like a more
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: of just a flat line. Hey, uh so I'm going
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: to give my two amples today Alfred Molina and let
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: me let me just really quick look up. I have
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: to assume he was Oliver platfor Let's let me speculate
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: on perhaps what he was doing instead. This is my
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: favorite part. What was too old to be in med school? No?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: He no, because he was so well, I don't know.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: Plant was born nineteen sixty, Wily was born fifty three.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: But he's a character actor doesn't really matter. Okay, here's
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: something he might have been doing instead. This is maybe
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: he was shooting Not Without my Daughter, or maybe he
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: was shooting the movie American Friends, or maybe he was
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: on the press tour for Rescuers Speaking, in which he
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: played Italian priest. Or maybe he was just playing one
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: of his many famous Shakespearean stage roles. Either way, he
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: was too fucking busy, so they threw platy bone. I
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: forget where I was, but I don't even know if
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: I met him, but he was just there and we
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: were like, oh my god, that's so Excitedly, where do
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: you You don't know, you don't remember where. I really can't.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: We might have even had an exchange, but I honestly
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: can't remember. Well if you, if you remember, let us
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: know because we're always looking for him. Hey, Matt, thank
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: you so much for being our guests. Yeah, thank you,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Of course, where can people find
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: you online? They can go to This is Matt McCarthy
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: dot com for all your Matt McCarthy needs, or you
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: can follow me on all forms of social media at
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: McCarthy redhead, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and uh go to We
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: watch Wrestling Podcast dot com new episodes every Wednesday at
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: three am. Excellent. We just got back from New York
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: City celebrating our fourth anniversary. Congratulations, Thank you so much. You.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Oh you should go girls, You should go to women Ladies, Yeah,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: you should go to It's so fuzzy marauders. There's just
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: no there's just no good equivalent to guys. I like gals.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: It's a little it's a little bit kind of saying,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: but I'm into it. Ladies works, but there is something formal. Gentlewoman, gentlewoman,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: I prefer what's up, bitch? So you bet you should
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: check out I just noticed um on the Professional Wrestling
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: to September seven in Baldwin Park is Bar Wrestling is
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: having their fourth show and I was looking at the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: announced lineup. So so far there are more female wrestlers
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: booked on the show than male wrestlers. Here you go,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: and the and the the Queen of inter gender wrestling,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Candace Larey, will be in the house. Excellent. There you
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: go for all your wrestling fans out there that that
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: might mean something to you. And I haven't watched wrestling
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: in this year. I've never seen it. I don't know.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: I think about wrestling. Are you watching Glow? No? I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: intend to, but I have not started yet. Aristotle Loo single.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: That's right. Go to check out my my comedy single.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: Pro wrestling fan Matt McCarthy on Spotify and iTunes and
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: all such platforms. Very cool. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: at bactol Cast. You can go to our brand spanking
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: new website dot com. You can also there's a spot
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: on our website where you can donate money to us
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: to help us with some of our production costs. Thank you,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: please and thank you. And you can also have a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: great day today. You know what, maybe not such a
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: good day to die after all. Perfect by