Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.289: The Science Behind Clean and Clinical Grade Skincare Ft. Dr Koo

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E.289: The Science Behind Clean and Clinical Grade Skincare Ft. Dr Koo · Skin Anarchy

• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let me know what you think on the article before they do that.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Peter Anarchy.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am very, very excited to um be hosting this episode.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I can't wait because this line um that I'm going to be kind of introducing you guys to today is something that's really changed my skin in just, you know, in the matter of two weeks.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge convert, I feel like, at this point.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so, you know, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys um to Dr.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle Ku, who is the founder of Koo Skincare.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, uh, Dr.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Ku.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored and so humbled that you have the time for this.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Etca, I am so honored and humbled.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled to get to meet you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm impressed by your credentials and your enthusiasm.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: What an honor for me.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, it's not at all.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just, I'm obsessed, you know, with the line.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's just the most elegant and sophisticated and beautiful line I've come across in I don't know how long.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't wait to dive into that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: But before that, I want to talk to you about your career and your journey because I know it, you know, there's a lot that went behind the thought that went behind creating this.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't mind, could you walk us down memory lane?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe even get started with why you went into plastic surgery and you know, all the all the details.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'd love to.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I um grew up in Palo Alto, went to Stanford University, ended up going to Washington University Med School in in St.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, did my plastic surgery uh there as well.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um my I was always kind of a lab geek.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the lab studying collagen metabolism and wound healing, actually, is um how I started when I was in general surgery as well.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then and um when I was in general surgery, I was trying to decide what subspecialty I wanted, but seeing all the different subspecialties, I wanted to have a meaningful impact and make honestly make a meaningful impact on people's lives in a way that empowered them, made them honestly, it sounds so stupid, but I wanted to really make people happy, happy with themselves.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, wow, what a better way to do it than plastic surgery.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it makes a meaningful change, it's a quick change, um, and it can be a very deep, long-lasting change.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really why I kind of pivoted into plastic surgery, because I am kind of a results-oriented person.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started on the skincare journey.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Most plastic surgeons are not honestly interested in necessarily skincare because honestly, what we work with our hands, right?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: We transpose, we move, we repair, we we shift tissue all over the place.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't anything you have that I can't fix or what I say I can't make better.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, in all the years and I've been at this 28 years, I was selling um skincare to support my patients, and I was giving them and myself a lot of private label brands, um, lots of mainstream brands, skin physical, skin medica, you name it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I private labeled, I did tons of skincare, and I would try it on myself, of course, and my entire staff.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and I thought, wow, these are really expensive, and I have to look and face my patients every couple weeks when they come back and try to sell them more, but I really wasn't seeing a meaningful change in their skin, and they weren't wowed by it either.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I thought, geez, I can make a swipe of a knife and make a meaningful change.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I can't I am not doing it with skincare.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I of course, and you know, most of my patients are female, so I would, of course, listen to all the agony they just go through with just their entire lives, because that's the kind of practice I have.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very hands-on personal practice, and I would listen to them about all the hormone disruption that they had.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: They were having difficulty getting pregnant, their kids had ADHD and blah, blah, blah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I kept thinking, wow, this all this high increasing incidence of um ADD, all ADHD.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a misdiagnosis?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a labeling?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is it just putting them into a basket?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I kept thinking, you know, it's that probably has to do with all the stuff we consume, all the toxins, totally honestly.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I say it's all the shit we put on ourselves.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I, you know, I said, you know, I can do this better.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really can make it in such a more much more um thoughtful, meaningful way, with really clean and pure.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I leaned really into the medicine and the clinical and started honestly blending my own stuff.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I got a hold of various teams of farm formulating pharmacists.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go the beauty route.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: I truly went the medical model and tried to engage in formulating pharmacists, truly from medicine and clinical and from manufacturing houses that had great reputations and that could source from um pharmacy rather than beauty.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've now assembled a team with all women.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my lead formulator is female.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love her.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh after you know, five, ten years of blending my own, I finally needed to put it into clean glass containers and thoughtful formulations.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so finally, voila, you now have private practice, and that's where I am now.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's essentially relaunched uh with the new formulations in about uh essentially 2021.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been at it um with my clients, my personal private practice clients, using it for probably the last probably honestly 15 years, and that's why I know these are so pure, so clean.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And just like you've noticed a difference when you have um when you put it on your skin and you say, Wow, I feel a textural change.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I feel that it just feels cleaner, it feels fresher.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, your skin probably has never had anything this clean or pure on it in a clinical sense, probably for a long time.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it really does, it does ward off a lot of the things we're exposed to every day, which is pollution.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of a journey in a nutshell.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean, it's honestly, you know, what I said in the beginning, it's it's a line that I was really blown away by, like was the first time I tried it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that, you know, you were talking about, you know, just that instant gratification feeling, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think with skincare, we always have this debate in the industry of, you know, everyone wants instant results, everyone wants to see an overnight change.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest with you, the change that I first noticed was just how the products felt and how they went onto my skin, how my skin responded to like, you know, just how it felt, right?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: The overall feeling.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it it was a totally different kind of sensorial experience for me when I tried your line.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm just like just blown away by what you've created here, because not only are you giving us what we need in terms of skin health and science, which I'd love to dive into later, but it's more of this, you know, this elevated uh, you know, kind of routine that we're allowed to follow now.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, for example, um, you know, the serums.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: I love your serums because they feel like like butter, like velvet, you know, when you put them on your skin.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then your skin just absorbs everything.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to talk to you about that, you know, when it when it came to like really um putting together the way that you were going to formulate it or the way that you were going to, you know, um just create the products, what were the things that you initially knew you wanted, you know, in your line, that you were not going to compromise about, um, you know, just those kind of things.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing, my the directives I had is please don't put fillers in there.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't put unnecessary fillers to increase the volume of it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Anything we put in there that's making make it a functional ingredient.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: That was the very first.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: The next is you're going to have to have some preservatives.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: All skin products, no matter what they claim or say, clean, pure, organic, you have preservatives.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to have that because you must keep the serum or the cream in an integrated form that is smooth, that has resistance to microbes, um, mold, all sorts of things that you don't do not want to put on your face.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna have some type of preservatives to keep the additives fresh and to keep the textural um uh formulation intact, meaning you don't want the ingredients to separate and you don't want it to become what I would say rancid or break apart.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna have um certain preservatives.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: And there are preservatives that are very clean and not dangerous or unsafe for the skin.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: That those are the preservatives leaning into the clinical and the chemistry that I have in mind.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And do other people have access to them?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Of course they have access to everything I have access to, but it's the processes that I put my uh products through and the testing that we do, the safeguards we place, the the way they manufacture, where you actually um blanket them in inert gas, you put them into um uh uh airless containers, we put them into glass containers primarily because we have our first of all, our earth is we're filling our rivers and waters with plastic.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: They I I think I mentioned to you, Hector, that that uh they found microplastics for the first time in the bloodstream of not only uh fish, but now they've seen it actually in some humans.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just read an article on that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so they don't know the implications of that.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: But can you imagine microplastics floating around?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, it's gonna get into a capillary small enough, you're gonna occlude that capillary.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a big believer in minimizing our carbon footprint and minimizing our plastic footprint, and that was another directive and why I went to such lengths and really honestly extra cost to try to get containers that were very responsible.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Glass.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, I completely, you know, that really resonates with me because I I'm not gonna lie, there was, you know, when I was coming out of medical school, I think, um, there was this huge article or like a few articles, and then I discussed my dad's actually um in the research end of things, you know, and we were talking about this idea of like nanoparticles and just things like water bottles and plastics, they are constantly emitting these toxins.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, what you're saying is just so it it runs so deep, you know, and it's like it's not just about, I think, you know, choosing glass, it's it's more about understanding.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so when it comes to um not cutting corners, I want you to speak to us about that because I think, you know, you're one of the few uh people that are that have their own line that you haven't cut any corners and you haven't done any fluff work here, right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Everything, every drop of every product is just it's true, it's gold, you know?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want you to talk to us about that, you know, what the journey was like when you were going through the motions of bringing out the uh the different products and um how that was.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Was it you know, was it difficult?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Was it uh kind of like time consuming?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you could share.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to tell you it was near impossible.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's why that's why I'm still struggling because here I am.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm totally an unproven, unknown name.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yet, and everyone looks at it and goes, What the you know what?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um the costs of these are ridiculous.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I'm gonna be very transparent.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was my goal is to peel back the curve, the wizard's curtain is come take a look at this, just put it on your face, and you're gonna feel the difference.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: When my patients travel and they run into any drugstore and buy whatever it is, a hydrator that um they haven't used for a long time, and they've been using my products for a minimum of like six months, and most of them actually stay on it for a very, very long time, for years, in fact.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when they put that other product that it they might have been able to use before, they put it on.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I have had so many stories of oh my god, my skin broke out in a rash immediately.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because when your skin acclimates to really pure and clean ingredients, and then you put something else on there that has a lot of fillers and what whatever it else might be, you that's how you're gonna react.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Your pores are gonna look um a little rougher again, they're gonna feel and look the topography of your skin is gonna be a little rougher, and you're gonna break out in some type of reaction.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is I have heard that story so many times, but but my mission was near impossible.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's been why it's been in such development for so long, and why I'm still trying to gain traction is because I'm really trying to educate that you really your skin is your first offense against um cancers, the environment, the increasing pollution we we face every single day, whether you're in the suburbs or wherever you are in the city.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's so important to reconstitute your ceramide, your protective skin layer.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't strip it, don't break it down with harsh, um harsh cleansers and and exfoliators.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Use the more gentle the better.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that it's all about repair and restoring.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that yes, it's been an incredibly long journey.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's been very difficult, and and it's difficult as a heavy lift more for educating, I think, users.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I mean, you know, it shows it shows in the quality.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, you know, um, kind of going back to like what you said about the the pricing and stuff, I think that, you know, when we when we look at in the grand scheme of things, I have this personal pet peeve, you know, with skincare consumers where I get very irritated when I see someone splurging like$300 at like, I don't know, Target, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or um Walgreens.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you're spending the same amount of money, but you're spending it on products filled with things you do not want on your body, and then eventually the things that will go into your bloodstream.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's something that, you know, for everyone listening, you know, you you really need to stop doing that because you're ending up spending the same amount of money and the the products you buy are not doing anything for your skin.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, outside of outside of your own, you know, uh like the the clients and the and the custom the not customers, sorry, uh patients that you see, um how has that been?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, getting the word out and trying to get people to understand that, you know, everything that we put on our skin, it's got this systemic effect eventually, you know, it's gonna build up over time.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's this thing called toxicology, you know what I mean?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So how has that process been like for you?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I try to make little uh reels, I try to make little um uh short clips on my Instagram, you know, private practice by Dr.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Cood.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I it's been tough because, like I said, I'm an unknown, I don't have um celebrity big name influencers.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I um if I could get that into someone's hand and they recognize the cleanliness and and the quality of these, I think you just have to try it once.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'll experience that and you would you would absolutely testify to exactly what you're saying.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's a very heavy lift.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I it's hard for me to explain that everything you the reason skincare products can work so well for you is that our skin of our face, different from your neck and your hands, is so very vascular.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just such a good blood supply.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a uh a field waiting to gather good ingredients and um ingredients and actives that stimulate um cell growth and cell metabolism, um, but it's also a um a receptacle to suck in anything bad.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: So and it does just like you said, does become systemic.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for instance, like like the latest rage now, of course, is the oral collagen.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, you think you're gonna take it as a tablet, but you're gonna break it down immediately first by the acid in your saliva.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then if it's like I said before, if it doesn't hasn't been broken down by the acid test of the mouth, it's gonna be completely broken down by um this acid in your stomach.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you are so much better off having uh a protein drink that has amino acids, which my vitamin serum actually has.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: The building blocks is all you need.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Taking an oral collagen fragments is is is meaningless.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're spending tons of dollars on that, in my opinion, it's a waste of money.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, I absolutely agree with you.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a huge waste of money.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, with your your products, you know, for everyone listening, I I'm not joking when I say, you know, if you give it just a week, your skin is gonna, it's almost as if your skin is like, oh my gosh, finally, you know, like finally you're doing the right thing.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then like once you once you use the line, you're just like, I don't even want to try any other products, like because it's just such a huge difference.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I knew that as soon as I tried the serums, I just felt them, you know, like I said earlier, like when I just like in my hands felt the quality of the serums, I was like, oh yeah, this is next level stuff here, you know, it's like right.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's very silky.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you leave it on for literally five to ten seconds, that littlest bit of silk bit of tiny oil serum you feel is gone.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone because there is technology and there is processes that I have put into these that actually have um the preservatives and the carriers that drive it down to what I call the the level where the magic occurs, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You want it in that deep dermal uh level where the collagen um is going to be built and then layer up nicely like a nicely made lasagna, not like a disarray thrown in there like I would make, but something some some wonderful chef would create.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but that's that's that's how I describe your skin, should be um a lamellar, uh layers of uh of of collagen in smooth, organized, um uh an organized way.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Waves, I guess that's what is a good way to describe it, but as we age and as we get exposed to um UV rays and just pollution in general, the deeper layer of the melanin starts to rise up to the higher level.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you start seeing more blotchiness and discoloration of your skin, and you also start to see thinning of that um dermis.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can keep your epidermis, the ceramite layer at the very top as full as you can to protect the deeper layers, and then build the elastin and the glycosaminoglycans, that jello layer of your skin continues to stay nice and plump, and so you diminish the appearance and even the creation of the wrinkles and also the kind of discoloration, what you would call age spots, or just why does my skin look so sallow and that beautiful after exercise glow anymore?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and so that's what you're looking for the the products that will recreate your own skin health.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, it makes total sense.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like, you know, this debate has been so ongoing, I think, in more so in the non-medical community of this idea of you know, what do what kind of things in terms of skin health can be use topically that are actually beneficial and that are gonna go and do something, right?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I noticed with your line, you have um you know you have different levels of for example the right love products and I love that you have labeled things in a way that is like for me you know as as you know as a fellow member of the member community I like seeing things in international units you know instead of oh just a level one or level two I mean you have it really really really um you know categorized in a very specific way and I would love for you to talk to us about that because I know that retinol is one of the really hard um you know category of products right that a lot of lines um try to create but um you know just how how did you approach it you know when you created your different retinol products like what was the what was the key you know approach to that uh again transparency because when you read about percentages and I used to talk to people and even consultants all the time and they would say oh I use a really strong retinal I use a 0.1% and I said wow well what does that really mean because a percentage depends totally on the volume that you are talking about in your container is it a 1 ml like a uh half an ounce is it a 15 ml is it you know two ounces or five ounces half an ounce so it's completely dependent on the size the volume of your container so it could be quite deceiving of how quote strong your retinol is what you're really looking for is the concentration within that container size that you want and the only thing that really matters is the concentration concentration the actual amount that's in there so when I tell you you have 1,000 international units 3000 5000 and 8000 international units that's how much retinol is in there so now I have a specialized process which is you know being trademarked in the process of that we have it formed into a mice so essentially encapsulated it drives down to the deeper layer it's not going to cause the irritation the inflammation this the flaking the breakdown of your skin which everyone still thinks that's what you need to have to have effective retinol that's not what you need to have you need to find the retinol concentration one that your skin can tolerate because if you find that you're gonna use it consistently every night which is the key one of the key take homes if you take nothing else away from today is if you find the appropriate level of actors to do what it's the product claims you should not have any irritation.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Use it all year round because the the the another myth is that you can't use retinol in the summer that's not true.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: You use it at night that's that is true and you use it absolutely every night you use the one that is tolerated by your skin and hence that's why I broke down the levels with the 1,000 to 8000 international units.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you can keep tolerating it so you can go up to the 8000 you can go ahead and use the 8000 if you want because most of my patients say if a little is good more is better.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't necessarily have to spend more money because if you're getting the results of a smoother kind of creamier and and the topography is getting smoother you notice fewer wrinkles they your skin is plumper you don't need to go up until your own skin metabolism continues to slow down more that you do need more help right so I look at it like okay you know um Ector you and I will write a prescription for medication you don't go necessarily to 500 milligrams or a gram when you start you first do the recommended dose and then you only increase it if you need to for instance for your for your blood pressure you don't go to the strongest dosing and like bottom someone out.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to do that you have to titrate it up right so this is kind of this is the clinical side of the of the retinal only get what you need and oftentimes less is more yeah yeah absolutely Dr Ku you will not believe you're the first person I've had on my show that is actually talking you know the language that I've been looking for because honestly this idea of dosing I have been asking this question for the entire time skincare anarchy has been around to every brand.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like well tell me about dosing and you're the only one that's really addressed it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I that's why I'm so intrigued I was in instantly intrigued when I saw that you had things labeled in international units because I was like yes this to me makes sense.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: This makes sense to me because you know people in the skincare world and I'm not gonna lie consumers they don't think like that right they don't understand that you know when it comes to anything if you go to your doctor and you say I need a you know and your doctor says I need a vitamin D supplement you will vitamin D comes in like international units.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you take it that's how it's measured.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you know it like those kind of things are just overlooked by this industry and the amount of misinformation around it is really hindering people I feel like you know and so it's my point is like when I when I look at your line it's like it's no fluff.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally everything you need and the fact that you know you don't have things that are just filler products right you have your serums that are important like the antioxidant serum is amazing you know you have the hydration aspect there you have the retinol there but you're not selling these like bogus serums that are like oh um the plants of Malaysia you know and then you're they're going to like you know nourish your skin that's the kind of stuff that really gets on my nerves you know so I want you to speak on that a little bit about the dosing aspect and why that is so important when it comes to topical products.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's so important because um you don't know the concentration of the actors when you're buying something you have a lot of beautiful copy language of how it's going to transform whatever take you to that beach and I don't want to say a product's name or whatever but but but it gives you the full feel good marketing aspect of you think that that's going to be your skin but you don't really know what's in there do you do you really know the concentration of your actives in there that's what I'm trying to do is peel back that wizard's curtain.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to see the little wizard behind the curtain.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to see that there there are actives for skincare that is extremely effective.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay they're extremely effective but honestly I have to say most skincare products don't what we call charge the formula which means place enough of the concentration of the recommended active to actually do what they're claiming right they could if you added more actives of course the cost would go up the margin would become less for the um for the line for the brand but this is truly to meant to to change your skin this is from me because I don't want I didn't want to see my patients every three months and have them honestly bitch and moan about how I was selling them stuff that didn't work you know and so I feel like I have that responsibility to everyone who's gonna buy this I I it is attractive because I have enough concentration of the actives that are in there that are going to be able to brighten your skin and to lessen the discoloration because of the sun damage of the years.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have the retinol stimulation for your cells to turn over more to smooth your topography to increase your elastin for firmness.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that that and and honestly retinol has the most data of any active ingredient out there.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's no plant-based Fukuchial anything that you're gonna put on your skin um ashwakandas and everything else that is has the data that retinol does it's a great product you just have to work with it um and honestly the you know proposition 65 in California where it says you have to be under 1000 international um units to have it be safe for babies and for pregnancy well honestly my retinol is pregnancy safe yeah that's actually what I was going to ask you because that when I saw that on the on the actual bottle and I read that I was like oh my gosh this woman is brilliant I was so intrigued I was like she's made the most amazing you know line here because you know the retinol is something or retinol in general is something that you know there's a lot of fear mongering in this industry around it and there's a lot of like you know people that say well you can't use any retinal products when you're trying to get pregnant at all.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really glad that you mentioned that um in terms of just you know what you mean.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now one thing I want actually one product I'm obsessed with and I want you to speak on this um is your eye cream because I'm a I was never a believer in eye cream slight trainers.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: No joke like I they did not work for me.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: They were not things that were you know essential for me but my aging and the what I was noticing in terms of just signs of aging was around my eye eye area, right?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just for me it was a concept that I was always trying to understand.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love for you to tell us what is the important thing that we need in an eye product like a you know just a cream or serum or whatever we um whatever we put on there.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I I truly believe in light very light serums particularly for around the eyes because your skin of the eyelids is so thin right it's so thin and hence why the aging shows first in your eyes is the loss of elasticity the hooding of the eyelids um the crow's feet everything else is because our eye skin is just thinner.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to protect it you need to build the firmness by not letting it thin so much and if you can get ahead of that and I'm gonna be the first to tell you your sunscreen is going to be your number one best defense against aging it a hundred percent is I don't have a sunscreen I have no quote skin in the game but I want everybody to use sunscreen right I want everyone to do that and particularly around your eyes.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I like the serums because they're so much lighter creams tend to just be so heavy and you can't put on your makeup and I really feel you need a vitamin K.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: A vitamin K helps to stabilize the fragile blood vessels and so if you have like broken vessels around your eyes or your veins are very prominent around there and as our skin thins and what's called you know the septum that holds back the fat of the eyelids that's why you get the bags under the puffiness everywhere on the upper and lower lids.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you can keep that tissue more firm and held back you're not gonna have like as much puffiness and bags and the the veins that are showing through that shows up in dark circles.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe the um I really believe in the a vitamin K for around the eyes I believe in a very delicate um serum.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: My eye serum actually comes out as a cream but it it goes on as a serum do you notice that when it's so it transforms once it hits the delicate skin to go into more of a um a lighter serum that you feel just like oh I have nothing on but and then when you put on makeup it's oh my gosh my skin takes the makeup so much better because it's just been given a big hydration myth.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just been given a huge boost in moisture um which again lessens the damage.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all about flattening that aging curve and that's what these products are meant to.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll flatten the aging curve if you're warning against um environmental aggressors.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what the basis of all these products are to preserve your your skin um consistency and and uh depth.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: But so I there are there's also a hexarisors in the eye serum to really um brighten and to diminish dark circles.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So of course I have Retin A actually in your eye serum.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very specialized eye comp eyelid compatible retin.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's kind of a secret it's on the ingredients but the processes of of what I do to that retinol to make it not burn your eyelids is my secret.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: No I mean I I it's well you know it it's much better to keep it a secret because you're doing it perfectly and I feel like don't release it because someone's gonna botch it up no it's it's absolutely the most beautiful eye product I've ever tried.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you it's exactly what you said you know it's very it's almost weightless and it's very hydrating and I did notice exactly what you said which is the under eye concealer like I I wear wear like very little makeup personally.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a huge makeup person but the few things I do wear are under my concealer or like a little bit of powder and I've noticed that with my concealer the under eye area like it does not do the caking effect and nothing like that happens anymore.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it just looks normal.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why I was like oh my gosh like this is the first product that I feel like you know is really resonating with me as a consumer.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that I would go back to again and again and again.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know it's like it's finding like that one staple right in your routine and you don't want to replace it.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I feel like you know I'm kind of making this a segue because I feel like that's all of your product is like nothing is replaceable.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Once you've tried the line for everyone listening every product is like going to become your favorite and it's gonna be like I can't live without this anymore because nothing else feels like it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know right.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's been a decade in the textural feel of of getting it to a textural feel that um is just driven deep into your skin but it makes it feel so instantly good.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean some days like when um we are very tired in the office and it's just we're slammed uh we have a storeroom that has all the products in there and I um recreated a signature scent that's actually infused throughout the hydration mist as well as the cleansers and those are the only products that actually have a scent there's no fragrance of course but it's a scent and and when I had them create this I you know I wanted to bring them the smell of the the the the pines in from Colorado from Aspen and then and the eucalyptus that's on every corner at Stanford and Palo Alto and I said this is where I want you to recreate for me.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we went through so many iterations but so we walk into that storeroom and we just take one deep breath and I feel like oh it just entered the spot you feel so more almost refreshed and rejuvenated than we go on with the rest of the day.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's in those products because it's very much a sensorial experience as well when you do your skincare because part of what makes your skin look tired at age also is the the stress we have every single day.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if you're dealing with your kids or um with financial situation, whatever it is we all have stress.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you can de-stress yourself and if it feels good then that's what I say that's what you should do to do you to make yourself feel better because you will your inflammation goes down and everything I think in your body holistically improves including your ability to fight all sorts of things cancer this that weight gain you know the inflammatory state that we can put ourselves in as a result of stress.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right no absolutely and you know I think um for me it it's very interesting um you brought up your cleanser and that was actually a product I wanted to talk about because it's the only product um that has the word like or you know implies any kind of exfoliation and that's something I want to talk to you about as you know I'm noticing every day especially like on TikTok or Instagram people are obsessed with exfoliating products like you know whether it's peels or whether it's you know just uh serums and I want to get your opinion about that because your products are like what I use the cleanser in the morning and I ever since I've started using it I have had no need to use any kind of like peel wipes or anything like that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like my skin just feels like fresh you know it feels like it's it's cleared of any kind of dead skin.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I put on the products they soak in very easily and so I think it's just a beautiful thing you've created here and I'd love for you to comment on the idea of exfoliation and how that really plays a role in our overall skin health.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I have four cleansers again to try to address very much your very specific oil level or the age you are of your skin.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: My skin tends to be so dry I actually never have water touch my face I have it sometimes to just wipe off my retinol in the morning but everything else that I use to wash with is that creamy cleanser that I have which is the gentle and then I use just a really soft almost a baby diaper soft cloth.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I never use water because my skin's so dry um so I I never exfoliate I never use a toner I don't do anything else I use a retinol at night which is enough to exfoliate it's a very gentle exfoliation but again I'm I'm trying to teach people to reconstitute to build not to strip so yes you can exfoliate if you tend to have produced a lot of thick sebum and you want to exfoliate to unclock and just remove that debris from deep down into the pores and just that process of removing the pollution and all the dirt that we have it does stimulate growth your skin growth which is what we want to do but you don't want to strip it because when you strip that ceramide layer you are going to cause more damage again what you're doing is you're making your jello layer of your skin too thin and subjecting it to a lot more damage.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the the the premise of the cleansers it's supposed to give you a very um wonderful um sensual sensorial experience of that beautiful eucalyptus so light scent that leaves you just a trace as you're doing it and then it calms you and then it's it's gone.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can use any of your own um scents and fragrances that you please your perfumes but while you're washing your face you have that wonderful um as you say weightlessness that the the the lift from the stress but yeah I'm not a believer in heavy um exfoliating there's only one cleanser that lightly exfoliates very gently with um um alpha hydroxies but I'm very gentle right um and it's primarily I I do have um skin of color which is very sensitive to any kind of retinol I was never able to use it myself and I think I told you this I was so excited to be able to write my own prescription for retinol the prescription kind and burn the stink out of my face fresh out of my med school thinking wow what good was that MD for I can't even write my own scripts but um so you know it's it started so far back from me trying to find better things that I could use personally for my for my very dry sensitive skin.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of evolved over decades of listening to my my my patient's needs.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah all my products are meant to restore and really not strip.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't put any harsh uh chemicals I the retinol will actually purge your skin um um more than anything and that's what it will do.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when people do use the retinols because of that um gentle uh consistent exfoliation which is what the retinol is gonna do not the stripping um you will almost break out into little whiteheads or blemishes for about a week first when you start on the product so you think oh my god this is no good you gotta hang with that because that's changing the the milieu of your skin to get rid of the bad and once you get over that you you're gonna feel an incredible tightening of your skin and the pores because that's the intent is to really get rid of the debris um that has not been lifted out gently previously.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and that makes sense actually because that you know I've read so many papers obviously on the retinal component when it comes to skincare and that's really something I don't see in the mainstream media is this idea of just cleansing your pores like it's like purging you know it's it purges your skin lets it breathe and then starts repairing.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I love that you know you have this approach because you know there's so many products out there especially with TikTok and the way things are you know I keep bringing up TikTok but it's true.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I I look at so many people doing their own extractions and their own little tricks for like cleaning their pores and I'm like oh my gosh you know it makes me cringe because I'm like there's so many people who don't understand what it means to really cleanse your pores you know they don't know the meaning of that.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so um you know that really leads me to um the combining of the serums.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to get your advice on how do we approach serums.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know I know that the retinal is there and it's usually recommended to that on cleanse skin.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: But then for me, when I use your products, I do a beautiful cocktail where I will put three of the serums together and then just, you know, come and they just meld together like beautifully.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like um, you know, I I don't see any of that killing that you see in a lot of products.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: And they just work so well.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: So what is your recommendation to everyone listening when they're approaching the serum aspect of their routine?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how many serums are enough or how many are too many?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it really depends on what you're using.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and um my specific um product line or they're all formulated within a very narrow pH.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they're all very compatible for your skin, which is where your skin wants to live it a little tiny bit more basic.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um they're they're formulated so they are compatible within that narrow pH range.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you're bringing in other product lines and um that's your favorite, that's fine also.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably use those separate rather than blending mine with them.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you do is actually what I do just because I'm honestly too tired at night and to go through the whole routine.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I will put a little dab of the serum I'll put a little bit of a dab of the cream I always put the retinol on first and separate at night and then immediately you don't even have to wait because it's gonna go in so quickly I go ahead and put in my hydration and my vitamin and I actually do exactly what you do which is I blend them so I don't have to take even the time of layering.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I just put a c a pump or so into my palm first the vitamin then the next the hydrator and because my skin is so dry I actually will even put the cream in there and then just put the whole concoction on my face.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: They will blend fine.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a problem if one is not going to be antagonistic to the other the results are going to be actually synergistic.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna get um that much more um layering I think there was a trend recently talk I think people are talking about slugging is this where they just pile on grease on their face and then they just sleep with it.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think if your skin is that dry a couple hours it can't hurt but I probably would not block all your pores continuously without clear cleaning them because I think you're gonna trap debris in there that's not gonna be good.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually slows down your skin turnover which you still really want you want still new skin and turnover and that's what adds to the smoother your skin is because you do have that turnover for the smoother topography.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah so for my products retinol is always first at night I do have a pigment um brightener during the day if you have particularly discoloration from whether it's from pregnancy masks or um sun damage or if you tend to be like me you can't keep your hands off your skin sometimes if you're scratching and picking which don't listen to me because you should never do that.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I can't resist and then my skin does tend to hold pigment for a really long time.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I will use obviously always my vitamin serum day and night and I do tend to use the pigment during the day to just help me break up my um little spots and bruising that I tend to get because sometimes I'm just like scratching and picking.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean honestly the pigment serum is actually uh one of my favorites not well all of it is my favorite but you know what I mean like it's one of my favorites because um I'm always I was always that consumer that wanted you know being a woman of color I wanted a like a serum that would help me even out my skin tone you know so when I think of like pigment I think a lot of people think you know you need to have blotches on your skin or like you know really bad like uh just sunspots or something but that doesn't for me that was never the problem but the problem was like this kind of almost subtle patchiness that didn't allow for a full you know just uniformity right so I've noticed already you know in just two weeks like I'm starting to see that and it's just making me feel so much more confident in myself because I find myself putting on less and less like I don't put on powder as much you know because it's my skin is finally looking the way I always wanted it to you know it's it's evening out.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want you to talk to me a little bit about that in terms of pigment kind of you know products like what you know what do we really need to know about um you know hyperpigmentation and you know how do we combat that when is it a good time to start doing things um to combat that gosh I I think that's like like retinol you can't honestly start too early because once you have kind of that loss of that um beautiful petal undertone and I see that in in my skin just in in my 20s I've certainly had enough sun burns just like everybody because you think you're invincible at that at the at those decades at that decade right so um and particularly for me I noticed as I age was more like a real sallowness sallowness to my skin that I did like it only I only had that really glow and that petal undertone when I had so much like I right after I worked out because you have so much blood supplied to your skin but you can regain a quite a bit of that glow and as you said so well uniformity.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that is why you use a vitamin C because the vitamin C the stable kind right and hexoresourcle contetrahexal decal escorbate is much better than vitamin C.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: The reason you use those kind of ingredients is because it can regain that brightness that petal undertone to regain that softness of evenness the uniformity just like after you exercise when you have an increased rush of blood flow to your skin um as you continue to use your vitamin CM and that pigment um cream which is also in an airless container just like the retinol you will start to continue to see your skin even out it it just it's lovely to see the transformation.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be patient you'll see it almost feel the difference in that first week the second week you start to notice change but you know six to 12 weeks with consistent use and you're gonna think wow my skin really looks amazing you'll start getting compliments.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I've had that comment again and again and that's really on the only reason I even launched these is because I used to get these comments just so consistently when my patients would use these consistently and and um I I thought wow I would love to be able to bring this to consumers in general because it is really so healthy for your skin.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't use hydroquinone because you really can't you cannot use that long term I do have some cogic acid in um some of my products and um that has to be blended very carefully very tightly protected from light.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it tends to be a difficult product ingredient to work with but I have supporting ingredients in there.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do have marula oil I have certain very um delicate organics which I do pick from here and there that's going to enhance again the whole synergistic um effect of combining the products so that's what why you also want to use a pigment um pigment product is to really synergistically regain that petal undertone while you smooth the topography with the retinol I love that I love that and that's exactly you know what my skin is undergoing is everything you're describing.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean you say you know uh more weeks but within the first week I was already getting compliments from my fiance.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was like your skin looks really good.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: That looks so nice.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I've like I said I've heard that again and again so you know heads like I can do this like I feel like you know I've just discovered the holy grail of skincare lines genuinely I mean I I cannot rave enough.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was doing an interview just the other day and it was with somebody who owns their own med spawn she's a medical um aesthetician I was like even on air I was like well have you tried private practice by Dr.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: Coop because this is my brand new favorite line and she was like oh no I'm gonna have to look into that and like carry it in my spa because you know I can't stop raving about it.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've been recommending it to my mom, to everybody like I, you know I feel like when products work, that's one of the my favorite parts about you know over-the-counter products for skin health is that when things really work, it's like this beautiful it's this wonderful feeling you know you feel like a a kid that just found the best candy right it's like oh my gosh I finally found the things I need and that's truly how my experience has been so far.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know so I just I just want to commend you because you've created something so magical and everyone listening every single drop I'm not joking of every product that I've tried is like gold.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just you will fall in love the second you try it.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I cannot recommend this enough um Dr.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: Koo this has been such a wonderful um introduction to your lines so thank you for your time and and just all the knowledge um I loved learning about all the products and I hope everyone listening if you have any questions if you have any comments or anything you want to know please leave them in the cover art for this episode and I'll definitely pass them to Dr.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Koo's team um but I like I said you got to try it you gotta try it you have to try it to believe I know I know just use it once you'll see absolutely absolutely once you use it you're never gonna go back like genuinely but thank you again Dr.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: Koo this is so wonderful thank you so much.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 54:18
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• 54:26
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• 54:32
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• 54:42
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• 54:49
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• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.