Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Elizabeth Urbanowicz: Helping Children Know God’s Good Design

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Elizabeth Urbanowicz: Helping Children Know God’s Good Design · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Friends and family in Christ, thank you so much for tuning in for watching, sharing,
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and praying for us.
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Things are going very, very well.
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Praise God in this Christmas season, which we are all about Jesus, and we're so blessed
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by all the guests that I get to talk to you here on the podcast.
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Today is no different, so a new book is out, and I know we do a lot of authors and a lot
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of different books, but I would not have someone on World View Matters if I didn't really
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believe in what the content of the book or the author or their ministry.
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And Elizabeth Urbanoetz is a follower of Jesus Christ who is passionate about equipping
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kids to understand the truth of the Christian worldview.
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As we are, hello, she holds a BS from Gordon College and elementary education in Spanish
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and MSED from Northern Illinois University in literacy, education, and an MA in Christian
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apologetics from Biola, Biola University former, and she's a former elementary school
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teacher at a Christian school, and Elizabeth is also the founder of NCEO of Foundation World
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View.
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It's a ministry that provides Christian parents, educators, and church leaders with resources
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to equip children in their in their care to think critically and biblically, and she
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now works full-time on developing comparative worldview and apologetics resources for
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children.
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Now her goal is to prepare the next generation to be lifelong critical thinkers.
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Thank you.
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And most importantly, lifelong disciples of Jesus Christ.
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So it's no wonder we're having her on today to talk about her brand new book, Elizabeth,
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good to see you.
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No, thanks so much for having me on today, David.
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I'm excited to get a chance to chat with you.
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Yes, thanks for your time.
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And I love what you're doing, and especially the new book, bring the first, the latest
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book up first, Jeff, helping your kids know God's good design.
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Friends there are going to be some topics and some questions that I'm going to be asking
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her that you may be surprised about, but we really need our parents to be equipped to be
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able to help their kids with the truth about sexuality, and we'll get to that in a minute.
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But I want to go to her website, which is foundationworldview.com.
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And a couple of her previous books are What Is Truth and Are Feelings Truth?
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How timely and relevant.
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I mean, in the last 10, 15 years, books like this are really needed and necessary with
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Christian parents.
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So thank you, Elizabeth.
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Before we get into your book now, and I've got a lot of questions, but I want to ask you
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what your background first, you've been a teacher, you've got a lot of education.
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So I did you grow up in a Christian family, just tell us a little bit about your story
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before we jump in.
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Yes, I was really blessed to grow up in a home where both my mom and my dad were followers
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of Jesus, and they weren't just followers of Jesus in name only.
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They lived it out.
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Now they're not perfect.
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None of us is.
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We're all in the journey of sanctification.
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But I was really blessed to grow up in a home that was centered on Jesus and the word
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of God.
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And so I came to a saving knowledge of Jesus when I was just six years old.
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And so that was a huge blessing.
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And since that time, you know, things have not gone perfectly.
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I'm a sinner just like everybody else, but God has been faithful in drawing me to
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himself.
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And it was clear once I got into high school that the Lord had gifted me as a teacher.
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And so that's what I studied in my undergraduate degree.
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And then I went and I taught at a Christian school in the Northwest suburb of Chicago.
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And it was when I was teaching there that I noticed the issue that we're now seeking
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to remedy at foundation worldview.
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And that was that the students in my care, they came from great Christian homes.
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I was giving them a vividly based educational day long.
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They were involved in church.
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They knew all the Bible versus they knew all the Bible stories.
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But when it came to thinking critically and biblically through the ideas that they encountered,
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whether those ideas were out on the playground, whether they were in a book, whether it was
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on a Disney plus show, a YouTube video, a TikTok video, they didn't seem to have a lens
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through which to critically evaluate all of these ideas.
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So I went out on a search just looking for, you know, what are the materials I can use
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with my third graders to equip them to think critically and biblically.
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And all of the resources that I found were for high school on up.
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And I was so grateful that those resources exist.
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However, I thought, man, these students in my care, they're eight or nine years old.
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If we wait until they're 15, 16, 17 to teach them to think, well, we have lost so much
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ground.
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So I just started reading some books, taking some classes and started an after school
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club for third through fifth graders, just teaching them the basic tenets of a Biblical
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worldview and how different worldviews answer those same questions and they took it and
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just ran with it.
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And people were coming down to my classroom and be like, how are you getting these students
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to think this critically?
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And people were calling me from all over the country and asking me if they could get their
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hands on what I created.
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And I was like, I'm a third grade teacher.
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I'm not a publishing house like I don't have anything for you.
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But eventually, when those requests kept coming in year after year after year, that's
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when I was like, okay, this might not just be an issue in the Northwest suburbs of
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Chicago.
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It might be an issue really all over the place.
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So that's when I was still teaching what backed by Ola to get the masters in Christian
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apologetics, just to ensure that I really knew what I was talking about.
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And then halfway through that degree stepped back from the classroom to start foundation
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worldview to really begin multiplying what I had been doing in my own classroom in families
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and classrooms and churches across the nation and even across the world.
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This sounds good.
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And what you're doing is so needed today for the body of Christ for Christian parents.
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Christian parents have their hands full.
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They're up against it.
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I'm quite a bit older than you.
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When I was growing up, I didn't have to deal with some of the issues that kids have to
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deal with today with social media with what's going on in the education and the public government
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run anti-Christ schools.
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And what I mean by that is they are opposed to the biblical worldview.
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I call it ABC, anything but Christ.
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They'll teach all kinds of other stuff.
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The theory of evolution, they'll teach that as truth and on and on and on.
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But it's good that you're doing apologetics as well, Elizabeth.
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And I want to mention the subtitle of your book, helping your kids know God's good design.
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40 questions and answers on sexuality and gender.
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This didn't come across people's desk or radar until about maybe 10 years ago when the
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gender ideology, gender dysphoria and all these words started coming out.
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We didn't even know what really they're having problems with this.
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Kids are starting to be confused about this.
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How's that?
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Programming is a lot to do with this.
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But as far as Christians go, all we know is what's going on in our culture.
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But you've got to be rooted in ground and the truth.
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That's why I appreciate what you're doing.
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I want to start with age appropriate.
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And how do you explain?
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How do you share and help parents when you know we know Hollywood, the school system,
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the curriculum, the LGBTQ.
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There are agendas to reach kids at younger and younger ages.
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And a lot of parents are not prepared and did not see this coming.
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They were not ready to teach their kindergartners or whoever, however young your kids are.
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When they're getting it from the world and maybe from their friends and social media,
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Elizabeth, just give me your overall thoughts on where we're at and where Christian parents
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are at and what they have to deal with today.
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Yes.
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Well, I think anybody who's just alive and breathing and is not completely off the grid knows that
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as you mentioned, David, that there's just this aggressive agenda to promote an unbiblical
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vision of sexuality and gender to our children.
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And I think a lot of times parents, what they want to do is shelter their children.
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And now there obviously is an appropriate amount of sheltering, having parental controls
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and filtering software on our devices.
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That's a wise thing.
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It's something that we need nowadays.
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However, a lot of times what Christian parents are trying to do is to not have their kids
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know anything about sexuality and trying to hide them from the world around us.
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It's really impossible to do that.
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I live right now in a very conservative area of the country.
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But two houses down for me, my neighbors, who I love and care for, they're two men who
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are living in a homosexual relationship.
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So all of the kids on my block, even if they're just two years old walking down the road,
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they know that there's these two men that are living as a married couple.
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And so we cannot hide our children completely from the ways that the world has twisted
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God's design for sexuality.
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So what I'm really trying to help parents do is to take a step back and to say, sex,
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a lot of times in the Christian community is viewed just as this dirty thing.
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It's like, don't do it.
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Don't do it.
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It's dirty.
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It's terrible.
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And then when you're married, it's okay.
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So that's not the biblical view that we want our children to understand that God designed
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us as sexed beings, as distinctly male or distinctly female in his image for his glory.
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And it's a good thing that God is the one who designed the sexual union between a man
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and a woman.
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And he gave it a specific function and purpose within the covenant of marriage.
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So what I'm trying to do is to help parents reframe their thinking about sexuality.
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It's not something that like, oh, we need to hide our kids from it.
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We need to hide our kids from it.
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Now do we need to protect them from the evils of pornography?
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Absolutely.
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But knowledge that sex exists is not something that we need to just hide our children away
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from.
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Rather, at young ages, we need to help them understand this is something that God designed
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for marriage.
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It's a good part of God's design.
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It's for a husband and a wife so that they understand the goodness of God's design before
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they are exposed to any of the sinful corruptions of that design.
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Yes.
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Agreed.
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100% which leads to my next question.
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And a lot of parents, young moms or dads are watching and listening going, okay, well,
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what age is that?
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So Elizabeth, you've got to start with the Bible and biblical sexuality.
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Procreation is a good thing within the context of marriage between one man and one woman.
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Be fruitful and multiply.
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And that's, you know, Christians should have a lot of kids.
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But what age are you, did you get specific about that in the book?
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Yes.
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That is really one of the goals of this book to be a boots on the ground, practical guide,
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you know, not just theorizing.
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So everybody, hold on to your horses.
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Let me explain.
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I recommend in this book that parents have the first of many sexuality based talks with
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their kids starting around age four.
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Now I know that most people, you know, there's just this collective intake of breath four.
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Oh my goodness.
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And kidding me.
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Start this conversation around four.
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Well, let me explain why.
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The first is something that a friend of mine, Hillary Ferrer, Mama Barapologetic, she is
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coined the Founder's Effect.
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And the Founder's Effect is just this psychological phenomenon, or whoever is the first person
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to talk with us about a topic, we naturally view that person as the expert in our minds.
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Like I just experienced this a few weeks ago.
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My car started making a funny sound.
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And so I called a friend of mine.
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I was like, hey, can I swing by your house tonight with my car and have your husband look
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at my car?
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So I swung by their house.
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Her husband walked out and he's like, oh, is that I'm happy to help you, but I just don't
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understand why you want me to do this.
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Like, I know nothing about cars.
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Why are you asking me?
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And I was like, that's a really good question.
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Like, why am I asking you to look at my car?
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And then I realized that the first month that I moved to this city where I now live, I had
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car trouble.
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I got a flat tire and my friend's husband came to my rescue and he changed my tire on
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the side of the road and then pointed me towards a garage where I could get a whole new
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set of tires.
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Now, in my mind, he's the expert in our city on cars simply because he was the first
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one to talk with me about them, even though he's not an expert.
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And so if we want our children to come to us with their questions, their concerns,
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their curiosities, we have to be the first ones to initiate the conversation.
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That if they first hear about sex or sexuality from some cartoon character, from some TikTok
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influencer, from a friend on the playground, from a teacher, from somebody else, that person
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naturally becomes the expert in their minds, even if they're not consciously trying to
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think that way.
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So we have to start this conversation before the world does.
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The second reason is something that I just mentioned previously that we want our children
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to understand that at its core, God's design for human sexuality is good.
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And so if we wait to have the first conversation about marriage or sex or family until we have
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neighbors who move into houses down from us, where it's a homosexual couple, or until
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the person who's checking out our groceries at Costco is a man wearing a dress and lipstick.
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We have to go into backtracking mode and explain to our kids why they just saw what they
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just saw is not God's good design before they even know what that design is.
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So for those two reasons, it's so vital that we start the conversation at an early age
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and as an added bonus, if you start talking with your child about God's design for sex around
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the age of four or five, there's only one person in the conversation who feels awkward
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and that's you.
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Your child at that age feels no awkwardness in the conversation where if you wait until
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they're eight or nine or ten, then both of you do feel awkward.
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So that's why I recommend starting around the age of four have the first of many sexuality
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based conversations with your children.
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I think that's sound advice.
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I think maybe when I was growing up, I think parents could have waited until someone's
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ten or twelve, but not anymore with how we know there's an agenda to reach and recruit
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and some would say groom, young, young children.
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We're to speak with Elizabeth Urbanawitz and the website is foundationworldview.com and
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the book, phenomenal book, helping your kids know God's good design, 40 questions and
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answers on sexuality and gender will be right back on World View Matters.
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Introducing the World View Matters conference coming to Green Bay, Wisconsin May 1st and
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Here are some of the featured speakers, Ken Michael, Olivier Melnick, Tim Chafee, Mark
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You know how it goes if you're Christian and conservative, back to Elizabeth or Manowitz.
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So the next question I wanted to ask you, I think you answered it in part.
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Someone are bombarded.
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I think that's an accurate word by any ideology that is not biblical in today's culture,
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the public square, education schools, Hollywood, everything else, media.
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So parents really have to prepare their kids for this because they do it.
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They meaning the left demonic agendas and those who push them, they do a really good
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job.
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It's evil, but they do a good job on marketing tactics, talking points, reaching children
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at younger and younger ages.
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So especially Elizabeth, the LGBTQ agenda and that type of material, how can you help
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us equip parents for just to be ready to respond to that?
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Yeah, you used a word in there, David, that I love.
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You said the word prepare and I think that's a key word that we need to think of because
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a lot of times we think in order to protect our children, we need to isolate them.
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And now again, from things that are vile, from things that are evil, things like pornography,
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we do need to isolate them from that.
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However, protection does not equal complete isolation, protection equals preparation.
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And so that's why I love that you use that word.
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So now when we're thinking of the LGBTQ plus agenda, this is again where we're going
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to want to teach our kids to think critically because when they hear something like, you
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know, how could somebody not let you love who you want to love?
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You know, it's like, oh my goodness, well, of course, you know, I don't want to stop
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somebody from loving somebody else.
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We need to equip our children to think critically.
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And so to ask them a question, okay, what does it mean to love someone and actually think
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of the definition of that, that biblically and classically love means giving of ourselves
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for the objective good of another, even if it brings harm to ourself.
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And so we need to think about, okay, bringing, giving of ourselves for the objective good
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of another, even if it harms ourselves.
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And then we think, okay, what does our culture sometimes mean when they say love?
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Because if somebody says, well, I can't you just love whoever you want.
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What that person is talking about is expressing themselves sexually, however they want, whenever
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they want to, whoever they want so long as there is consent.
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And so we need to help our kids think through definitions of words because biblically,
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we are called to love everyone.
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God does not stop us from loving whoever we want.
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God has placed good and healthy boundaries around the gift of sexuality.
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And he's placed those boundaries for our good.
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So again, you're not going to have this conversation with your four-year-old.
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But as your children grow and they begin to hear these cultural messages, this is where
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we want to train them to stop and say, okay, what did I just hear?
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I heard that person say that if you're a Christian, you're not allowed to love whoever you want
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to love.
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How is that person defining the word love in that situation?
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Are they defining it biblically?
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That giving of ourselves for the objective good of another?
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No, they're defining it instead sexually taking God's good gift of sexuality outside of
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its boundaries.
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So we need to equip our kids to think critically.
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But even when we're talking about our little ones, our four-year-old is going to walk down
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the street with us.
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And they're going to see a couple who's gay or lesbian holding hands.
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They are going to run into somebody who's transitioning to a different gender.
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And so we there need to build the Biblical foundation that God designed us in his image
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as male or female.
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Genesis 127.
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So God created man in his own image.
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In the image of God, He created him, male and female.
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He created them and teach our little ones how to God create us.
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That's right.
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He created us in his image as male or female.
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And then once they have that foundation, then we can bring in how sin has corrupted that
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design.
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You know, because of sin, our feelings can trick us.
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Sometimes our feelings trick us.
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And then we can, you know, give examples.
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Do you remember last week when I asked you to clean your room and you didn't clean your
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room?
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You disobeyed me.
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And I felt so angry inside.
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I yelled at you for five minutes.
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Now I needed to discipline you because you didn't obey me.
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But I let my feelings of anger trick me into believing that the best thing for me to
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do was to yell at you when that wasn't the truth.
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And then we can explain sometimes people's feelings about who they are.
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Like them.
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Sometimes a boy's body will reveal.
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He's a boy.
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That's how God designed him.
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But his feelings will trick him into believing that he's a girl.
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So rather than believing the truth about God's good design for him, he's letting his feelings
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trick him.
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And sometimes it happens with girls too.
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They let their feelings trick them into believing that they're a boy.
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And so then we can just play that out.
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They already know the good foundation.
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God designed us as male or female in his image for his glory.
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But sometimes because of our sin, we let our feelings trick us.
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And then we can give our kids just a simple game plan.
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When you encounter someone who is letting their feelings trick them, the first thing you
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do is recognize this is not God's good design.
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You should recognize that.
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Then the second thing is remind yourself of the truth.
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In your mind, you can say God designed us as male or female.
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God's design is so good.
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And then you know what?
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You're going to be kind to that person.
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You're going to be kind to them like you would to any other person, but we're not going
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to lie to them.
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We're not going to affirm that they are a boy if they really are a girl.
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So I think if we can lay that biblical foundation, explain how sin has distorted it and then
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help them know how to move forward.
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So Elizabeth, what about young parents?
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How or when do they touch on tricky topics like pornography or masturbation, things like
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that?
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When do you address those?
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Again, they're hearing very different messages from culture and from others.
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Go ahead.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So in the book, I give very specific again.
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We get very specific.
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So I recommend having the first conversation about pornography at the age of four.
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Now you don't have to use the word pornography.
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You just talk to your kids about how we have good pictures.
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And then because of sin, there's bad pictures.
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So walk around your house, talk about all the good pictures that you have all around
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your house and then say, you know what?
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Because of sin, some pictures are bad pictures and some videos are bad videos.
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And just explain it really briefly, say sometimes people take videos or pictures of others where
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there's not clothing covering those special parts of your body that a bathing suit was
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designed to cover.
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And these pictures are bad pictures because they're not treating the person in them like
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they bear God's image or the person looking at them like they bear God's image.
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So if you see a bad picture, I need you to stop.
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That's the first step.
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So looking at it to run, run right to me or the nearest safe adult.
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And three, tell us what you saw so that we can help protect you from seeing that again.
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You give them that stop, run, tell.
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Then now you're going to grow that conversation as they grow.
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You know, like once they're 10, you're not going to say it's bad pictures.
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That's where you know when you're going to explain that it's called pornography, you
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know, and what it is and what remind them of those three steps that you stop looking
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at it right away.
24:07
You run to your parent or in the nearest safe adult and you tell them what you saw.
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With the topic of masturbation, this is another tricky one.
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And sadly, I don't recommend talking about it at four.
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Thank God, we don't need to talk about that one at four.
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But I do recommend starting around the age of eight or nine simply because even if our
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children are in a Christian private Christian school or their homeschooled, there's going
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to be kids in our neighborhood who are going to public school.
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And with so many of the state led sex ed standards, children are being instructed in self-stimulation
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through masturbation at the age of eight or nine.
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And so we just, we can present it to our kids just really simply and say, you know, sometimes
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what people will do is they will touch their private parts in a way that makes those private
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parts feel like they're having sex.
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And this is not something that God designed us to do because remember, we've learned what
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sex is for.
25:01
God gave sex as the sign and the seal of the marriage covenant and he gave it to be fruitful
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and multiply so that we could have babies.
25:08
He gave it so that a husband and a wife could get to know one another and enjoy one another
25:12
in a way that they don't know or enjoy anyone else.
25:15
And he gave it as part of marriage, which is a picture of Jesus in the church and just
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say, when somebody's off by themselves all alone and they're touching their private parts
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in that way, can they be fruitful and multiply?
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No, they can't be.
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Are they getting to know their husband or their wife better?
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No, they're not if they're all by themselves.
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And is that a picture of Jesus in the church?
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If they're all by themselves?
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No, it's not.
25:38
So you might hear somebody talk about this and you can explain that it's called masturbation
25:41
and you can say, you know what, if somebody talks with you about this, you can say, you
25:44
know what?
25:45
I don't think it's appropriate for us to be talking about that.
25:47
And then you can come and tell me that they wanted to talk with you about this.
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So just to prepare them, because again, it's preparation, which equals protection.
25:56
So we want to make sure that we are preparing our kids in developmentally appropriate ways.
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Great answers.
26:03
Thank you, Elizabeth.
26:04
I wish we had more time.
26:05
But I did want to ask you briefly, and we only have a minute left.
26:09
And we don't have time for this one.
26:10
But a lot of parents have a decision to make about us, a family member same sex wedding.
26:16
So that's in your book, how to tell your children that we are not going to attend a family
26:22
member same sex wedding.
26:24
That's in there.
26:25
You also talk about how to teach your children about consent and what that means.
26:29
And there's so much more.
26:30
But I love that you have no God's good design in the title of your book, again, helping
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your kids know God's good design.
26:39
40 questions.
26:40
My goodness.
26:41
We just scratched the surface here today.
26:43
Elizabeth, just in 30 seconds, any closing thoughts?
26:47
I just hope that anybody who's heard this interview or anybody who picks up the book, really
26:51
my hope and prayer is that you will walk away infused with the courage that God's word
26:57
is sufficient for walking our children through even the thorniest of topics.
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Amen.
27:03
Amen.
27:04
And again, friends, the website is foundationworldofview.com.
27:08
The books are also available on Amazon.
27:11
Elizabeth, thank you so much for all you're doing and for your ministry and for your time
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today.
27:15
Have a Merry Christmas season and hopefully we'll stay in touch.
27:18
Thank you.
27:19
Thanks, David.
27:20
You're welcome.
27:21
Friends, again, share the podcast.
27:24
That's how it's getting out there primarily and thank you so much for your prayers and
27:27
support.
27:28
God bless you.
27:29
And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.