Latest / Two in Twenty / with Aviva's Kelly Mikhailoff

Transcript

with Aviva's Kelly Mikhailoff · Two in Twenty

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to 2 in 20, the podcast of the Alpha Agency team.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Twink Fields and I'm the host of these episodes where we talk to senior leaders, marketers from the investment industry, where talk about their priorities, their perspectives, their careers.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this week I'm delighted to say that I'm talking to Kelly Mikhailoff.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: She is the customer and marketing director at Aviva Investors.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting conversation talking about the benefits of working within the Aviva structure, where they obviously have a D2C business and what that means for her within the B2B channel.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: We talk quite a lot about culture, about being data-led and kind of commercially led as well.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So really interesting in the way that she brings really authentic leadership style to her team and as always talking about some tips or learnings for all our listeners.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to hand straight over to that conversation rather than try and wrap it all up in this intro.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly, it is great to have you with us today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining me and talking for 20 minutes about your career, the priorities at Aviva.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe before we jump into questions, you can give everybody a bit of a feel and flavour for your career and then we can get stuck in.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Twinkinely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's lovely to have this opportunity to talk through my career and the B2B and asset management marketing.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I started in Lloyd's TSB.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I started on a graduate program and I loved it because after coming off the degree, I got a real sense over sort of two years of lots of different parts of the business because I kind of was interested in product and proposition, but also in the marketing.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I had to do a bit of sales and realized that's definitely, definitely not.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So as much as it ruled some things in, it ruled some things out as to what I wouldn't be then kind of progressing my career in.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so after that two years, I I really did understand that it was that was marketing where where I felt at home, where I felt my skill set matched.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent another five years there and various worlds and somewhere kind of product proposition marketing as well.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really good to have that bridge of understanding how the product comes to life, so how you need the client insight and then it and then how it gets to market.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that was mainly in savings and investments that I did that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I moved to Aviva.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I actually moved back up to York and from the north.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it was I was in London, so then I went back home.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And when I joined Aviva, it was in the investment part of the business, but it was really small, the UK collectives only.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just such an introduction to that world.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at first it was like overwhelming, but then I I just fell in love with it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I also fell in love with Aviva, the culture, um, the people.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been in there over what a long time, over 15 years.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And through that time, I've really earned my stripes in terms of the different parts of asset management.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I've worked in all client channels, and I've also done a bit of proposition work there.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I then I specialised in brands.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a really turning point in my career is when I did the rebrand, when you and Moreau joined Aviva Investors and led the rebrand with him and really repositioning us as a credible global asset manager, um, and then stayed within brand specialism.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then over the last three years, I've taken on a much broader remit of leading the team when we moved into the group function.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, a long time, but it feels very varied, and it feels like I've worked in different organizations, but the culture and the people have always been and the opportunities I've had is what's kept me here.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And here I am today, yeah, leading the team for the Aviva Investors marketing team, and but part of the group function, which is also a great place to be.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, awesome! Lots to get stuck into there from brand to I guess being part of that kind of broader business and what that kind of helps kind of bring to your role and to the different channel focuses.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe maybe let's start on the on the brand side.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So your point around, you know, part of that kind of big kind of brand repositioning.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, just maybe you can give us a flavor for that in terms of how do you continue to refresh the brand, make sure it stays relevant.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes we can think that a big brand project is sort of once and done, and then we can kind of relax for a while.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, there's that sort of iterative, continued requirement to keep investing, keep refreshing.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear from you how you think about that, given your expertise.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's critical in terms of a consistent focus on this, making sure that your positioning is can continually distinctive and your clients' needs change and the industry needs.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you've really got to make sure, although you've got core strengths and core values, I think the way that then you communicate that need to keep keep moving and keep evolving.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the same time, you've as well reinforcing those consistencies as well, of where you can be really clear about what your purpose is and the strengths that you bring to clients in meeting their needs.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And as well, another area is just kind of that relationship building, and I think that's where that really helps, then where you are trying to build that relationship with clients, that then through kind of focused events and through engagements, we've really tried to ensure that again that message is consistent and reinforced as well.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and then keeping that you say both then the messaging, but then also the creative, how do you make sure your visual identity is evolving at the same at the same time?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because actually having a distinctive visual language is as important as having you know your written.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So again, we continually make sure that we're we're looking at that and finding ways that we can evolve, but in a way that's meaningful and relevant to the client, so not just doing it for the sake of it, but how yeah, you are ensuring that that you can create that connection with your with your client base.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that reminds me, you talking about visual identity, to some of the research that we did, looking across the peer group and trying to sort of really find the more distinctive brands and how they're showing up in market.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this sounds like I'm being quite sycophantic, but it was really clear how Aviva were being really intentional around using the colour palette really distinctively across imagery, which can obviously be really generic.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really stood out when we were looking across the peer group and how you were being really thoughtful about kind of bringing together your kind of your corporate consistent imagery, but in a in a way to stand out.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's really great to hear because it is an area we work hard at.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: We understand where we want to have that stand out, but then we make our assets work really hard, and we can we've evolved some of our assets that we use within that, but retaining that core consistency, and a key part of that as well is you know the governance of that and the narrative of that into the business so that everyone understands how important that is, and that everyone plays a role from a presentation or a report to a client or a piece of merchandise or name badge, that all of that contributes to that consistency.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the big campaigns, it's all touch points, and there's a clear, clear governance, and and they know where where the boundaries are and where there's where there's flex and where there isn't, but also that narrative of working with the business to make sure that we can ex express ourselves in the way we need to to our clients.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Super interesting hearing you say that because I think where we see people maybe take a shortcut is where they don't do the socialization work within their businesses to really embed the new look and feel, make sure that everybody is super aligned.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So great to hear how you bring everybody along to cut through essentially.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's two parts to that as well.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's the socialization and also the at the beginning, you know, at the beginning and the input through the process.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because what again we found when, particularly when you're looking at messaging and a consistent narrative, if you have to have it at the corporate level, but then it has to it has to flow through.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have to see that corporate narrative, you have to see the connection visible and written connection when you go into a pitch presentation or whether you go into a briefing note for one of our fund managers for an event.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's again where so there's a socialization, is that there's this a connection through and ensuring that your that your narrative is grounded in proof points, and that's where you need the business again to shape that narrative so that you can go of, oh yes, we we need to talk about for you for us, it's around connected across capabilities is one of our pillars.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you, you know, and and that's the investment teams really helping us shape that in the proof points, that then they can very easily then connect that through when they're do they're having to express that in the way they do through presentations or client reports.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's also really important.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we can switch lanes a bit and and just thinking about the benefits of the structure of the Aviva business.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was wondering whether there were some advantages or some learnings from being part of a business with a big direct burger D2C business and how that maybe informs some of your thinking or brings some breakout ideas that you can start to think about through the more B2B channels.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything there that you have kind of looked to use or deploy?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, in terms of structures, I sit within a customer marketing function that spans the whole of Aviva and then and then I'm aligned into Aviva Investors.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's been such a brilliant opportunity to learn and understand from the direct, because I've never worked, I've never had really that much experience when looking at you know a D to C strategy.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some really key learnings for me.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, personalization and simplicity, you know, they are key.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you and you see that when how again that you need to engage and where you've got to make the complex and insurance that's around policies and things, but actually that it translates into our world, and you you've really got to work hard, you know, work hard at that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely one.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is sort of data obsessed and measurement obsessed, like you know, when when there's direct, there is much more measurement and much more and data available.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But there's been but I think the challenge of how do we take that that principle and bring that into B2B has really helps shape our thinking in that space.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing for me is kind of adding value beyond the product.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you look in direct, it's how do you become part of the customer's life and where you can add value, you know, beyond a health product.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's how do you help them stay healthier, like preventative rather than needing it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you that's really interesting, and particularly in asset management, where it's again finding where you can add value to client beyond beyond the kind of the the the capability that you're giving them.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there I would say they're the key pieces for me that have been um really helpful to get insight on.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just thinking without going circling all the way back to brand, but I was wondering how do you try to your point around being data obsessed, is there any way in which you can understand the halo of effect of being part of the broader Aviva and then the Aviva investors brand resonance, or do you just have to accept that it's that you know, you you get this sort of halo, and it it's just hard to kind of understand how much influences the understanding and the loyalty for Aviva investors.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: From a from a data perspective, it is hard.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's challenges in terms of quantifying the value, but there is value, you know, there is value in that halo effect.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: We can see that when we look at our brand trackers in markets where Aviva has a a presence and a dominant presence, like in the UK.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can see that coming through, and also in actually some of the verbatims, you do sometimes see that, particularly in like in the UK divisor, where there's you know, they interact with both brands.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have to work hard in some elements just to make sure they understand the roles that each brand can play, but the power is of them together, and it really does help us get us, you know, cut through and helps us amplify our message and spend as well.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when we see elsewhere some budgets being quite pressured, that where you are able to really lean into the the kind of the broader group presence, visibility, that no doubt helps in terms of people's kind of sense of familiarity or favorability.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll just pause there again, just thinking about where next for Aviva.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm conscious to fit it all into 20 minutes and in terms of the roadmap, what's sort of on your priority list for 2026?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really interesting times to the business, Aviva investors looking to grow and diversify both from a geographical perspective and from a client-based perspective.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really that's really exciting, a real focus on growth.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then for us, that then brings us then the challenge of looking at how we respond to that.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So this is where data comes in as well.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really, we need to take, we're not trying to do everything to everyone, and that's really important, even though we are trying to diversify it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's really again going back to what I said at the beginning about understanding where you can add value, where are the clients that you can make a meaningful difference.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's again where data, so really trying to understand where those opportunities are, helping to identify those and then engage with the people in the in the relevant way.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of work for us on data.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Also, then we're areas like such as where we're going into APAC in America, so there is some brand build to do there, understanding what we need to do for each client, using data to do that, ensuring that again we're bringing the creativity and the brand and that consistency, looking at where you can have the consistency of the global message, but how you make it relevant and meaningful as well within different regions.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then for us, yeah, just where we can add the most value, and that is really in partnership with sales, really kind of this integrated sales and marketing engine that can fuel this growth.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Great to be part of a business that is in growth mode, has that ambition, as you say.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it makes me think to your leadership style, you know, sort of bringing everybody along, different geographies, different level of maturity of how well Aviva investors is understood, as well as that sort of stakeholder management across the business with your partners in sales.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I wonder whether you could give a feel for your leadership style and and how you kind of how you show up every day to inspire everyone.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the last bit's a big a big question around how I show up and inspire, but in terms of leadership style, I'd describe it in three ways.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely people-led first, commercially focused and results driven.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: For me, success starts with culture and building a strong team, recognizing, you know, recognizing people holistically and then allowing them to be them best selves, creating that environment that they feel valued and empowered.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that for me is what I find really important is recognizing difference and celebrating difference and how you can bring bring all of that together to respond to the various needs of clients, internal.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I feel for me that's where it really starts.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, that sharp focus on commercial priorities, understanding the business, understanding our clients, understanding the products and outcomes that we're trying to do, so that kind of you can focus on what drives drives impact.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that's again instead that in the team.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So again, they feel that they're contributing.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everyone you know is motivated by feeling that they're making a difference, and I think that's again where for me being really commercially focused and making sure that we can not only show demonstrate results kind of within within a marketing context, but then how that does translate into business outcomes.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, for me, it's really important to be authentic.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: For me, showing up in a very transparent, approachable, open way, that's what I think helps then for people to feel connected to you as a leader, to trust you, and hopefully then make them feel they can be the best selves and then results follow that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: That feels like the perfect answer to me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was about to ask you what do you think success looks like for marketing in financial service?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it feels like it in some ways the way that you lead is quite aligned to that in terms of being commercially driven, data-led.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether there's anything else that you would point to as well.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, those are key for me, as you say, the commercial impact and building credibility and trust.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: The other piece of me is around that delivering that seamless experience across touch points, how we're really integrating and feeling like the client, whether they are online, offline, with the sales team, kind of interacting with content, that that all feels very connected, that we all understand what's going on and that the client feels that, that we really know them.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the other part for me in terms of financial services, particularly in asset management, that's going to be key.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually is a lovely connection point to that leadership style again, around the clients feeling like you really know them, but also your team feeling like you really know them, and and sort of understanding all those differences that you talk to.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just have a really, really good sense.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: You talk right at the beginning about the culture of Aviva, and clearly your passion around culture is also really connected to the way that you lead, and maybe you know, this sort of really powerful employee value proposition that has really been built up at Aviva.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wonder whether you could just talk a little bit to that, because I think we talked quite a lot about the the the CVP, the kind of client or customer value proposition.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe just before we kind of close out, you could give a feel for the strength and the investment and focus around culture and EVP as well.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, culture is is key.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, as much as we focused as well on bringing to life brand and values, I think integral to that is uh employee value proposition.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we as a brand team work really closely with the people function.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you've got a growth agenda, you need a high-performing team.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So those dynamics and getting them working together is really important.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, people feeling connected to the strategy, understanding what's expected of them.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: You used the word inspiring earlier as well, and I think that's really important.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the company going?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: What does that feel like?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because getting there can feel hard and tricky and challenging at times.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So but I think when you've got that vision, you've got that something to work towards, and you're all working towards.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So the business has worked hard on kind of outlining what that looks like as a business, and then we've worked hard understanding what that means for teams and functions, but again, you've got that sense of everyone working together with a set of expectations that are clear.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Again, and that's all linked to your your culture and how you want your people to show up internally, and obviously then that translates into how you show up for your clients, whether that's in person or the way we do it through through visual identity or through content, that yeah, it for me they've got to work hand in hand.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And one question, Kelly, to to wrap up with, which I've been asking everybody on this the new series, is just whether you have any tips or kind of final thoughts for people listening and sort of growing their careers and with ambitions in our industry, whether you have any any thoughts for them?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think being curious is key and really just learning all the time.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean I think it's important anyway, but in the current environment with AI, as in Gen AI and all of those things, I think just understanding and really how are things changing, what can I do differently?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I think so.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think being curious and adaptable is key.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Building relationships, I think, again, is so having that both within an organization, within the industry is just again, I think that helps with that curiosity and getting different perspectives and bringing those in and learning.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those two are really linked.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the final one for me is around balancing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I think we have a real role to play in bringing creativity.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I think again finding ways to bring that into the organization to making sure that that stays something that's important, but balancing that with the commerciality as well.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So again, back to that making sure you know you know who your clients are and what value you can bring to them, there would be the things for me.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love that because I I definitely feel if creativity doesn't live in market in the marketing department, goodness knows where else it's gonna come from within the asset manager.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: So all three things, yes, I love I love that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Kelly, so much for this sort of wander through the world of Aviva and brand and the kind of importance of culture and data and creativity.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been fantastic to talk to you.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for having me.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's been really interesting.