Latest / The Trauma Therapist / EMDR Intensives with Rachel Stanton, LCSW

Transcript

EMDR Intensives with Rachel Stanton, LCSW · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is gaming Person.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: So five four, three, two and one, our folks, welcome
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: guest today. Rachel Stanton. Rachel welcome, Thank you to be here.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Rachel is a licensed clinical social worker and founding clinician
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: at EMDR Intensives in Boston, where she specializes in trauma
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: treatment using EMDR therapy. She helps clients process PTSD, complex trauma,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and other challenging symptoms through personalized, intensive EMDR protocols designed
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: to accelerate healing. With a compassionate client, setted approach, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: deep expertise in trauma work, Rachel supports people and moving
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: beyond distress to lasting relief and recovery. All right, Rachel,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Well just a little bit about you obviously before we
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: can go and shore with the listeners. Where you're from
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: originally and where you are currently? Sure?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: So, I'm actually originally from Tampa, Florida, though I don't
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: quite identify as a Floridian because my parents were actually
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: from up north.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: But I am in.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Boston now currently, so I have moved to be with
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: my northern roots.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: So that's all right, all right, So let's start. How
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: the heck did you get into this field?
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: So I would say it was kind of It was
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: definitely an evolution. I think one of the first one
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: of the kind of early experiences I had. I think
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: this is one of those times where I feel like
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I really started getting interested into like the profession of
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: helping people, which was.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: In high school.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I actually had a good friend in high school who
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: at that time had a stepfather that I found out
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: leader had been like abusing her, and there was this overwhelming,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: like helpless feeling to that, you know, that was like,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: oh my gosh, what could I do for her? And
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: it really felt like nothing, And for whatever reason, you know,
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: we didn't really feel able to tell the adults in
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: our own lives and that situation, and so it was
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: kind of like this feeling of like, oh, something bad
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: is happening and there's like nothing that we can do
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: So I think that was probably the start of some
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: things for me.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: When I went to college, I majored in psychology. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: thought for a while I would go into like research
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: and kind of pursue that work. But I didn't actually
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: enjoy research. So it turns out, you know, that wasn't
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the path I wanted to go on. So then it
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: kind of slowly morphed. I went to school in North Carolina.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I moved to Chicago.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: After that.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I worked for a little while with adults with intellectual
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: disabilities and kind of got into that work for a while,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: which was really interesting to me. But I felt like
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to kind of go a
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: little bit deeper with people than I could just sort
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: of with a bachelor's degree. And I was like, you know,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I really feel drown. I really want to become a therapist.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So I went to I moved to Boston to you know,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: get my social work degree at Boston College. And from there,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I so my second year of field placement, which is
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: basically like an internship we all have to do, you know,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: to kind of get our feet wet and doing like
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: clinical work. I've worked out the women's prison in Massachusetts,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: so MCI Framingham, and I was a clinician there. I
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: loved it. I loved it, and yes, and so I stayed.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I stayed after ground, Ok.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Why what about it did you love?
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: You know, what did I love about it? I think.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: There are many people who when they are in the
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: community can't access services for you know, resources reasons, class reasons,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: addiction reasons, or even just cultural like not kind of
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: seeing the not wanting to, you know, connect with therapists
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: in the community, getting mental health care in other ways,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: you know, through churches or other communities, community supports. But
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: when you are in the prison system, I think the
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: mental health workers are in some ways, we're kind of
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the We're like the softest people in that system. It's
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a hard system, you know. It's like there's security, there's
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: the other inmates there who aren't always soft, right, and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: then there's like the mental health workers. So I think
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: we wound up kind of being a soft place for
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: people to land to feel safe with.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Not to say that.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Everybody you know was did feel safe with us, but
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I think it felt good to be able to offer
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: a safe space for people that like wouldn't necessarily be
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: able to seek that kind of safety in the community,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: you know, for.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: All of those reasons I kind of named.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: So we worked with like a really it's a really
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: underserved community of people. They also had really in general
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: and you know, broad strokes, really complex problems, and that's
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: clinically was it was a clinically very rich environment to
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: work in as well.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of complexities. Yeah, so.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: That sounds really interesting to me. I really admire you
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: for doing that. Theoretically, I would have loved to have
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: done that. I don't like being locked up.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: That was the thing that freaked me out about that
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: prospect of doing that. But anyway, this is about you.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So I want to go back to that. What do
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: you have this thing in my classes? I want to
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: go back to that initial story you told of that
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: friend and you said you were you were young. Are
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: you in high school?
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: High school? Yeah?
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I think that Okay, that was you.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: I think this was like freshman year or something or
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: an I were friends.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, So when you heard that or found out about that,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: because that could that could land several ways with people, right, Yeah,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and how did that? How did that sit with you?
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: You know, it was heavy, I think it was heavy.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: She had She also had a younger sister, like a
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: much younger sister. So you know, like I said, we
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: were in high school, but I think she had a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: sister who was probably five, six, seven years old something
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: like that, and she was also being victimized as well,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So that added this extra layer to it. And for me,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: I think, and this is kind of and think in
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: some way speaks to my own privilege, but this was
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: sort of my first experience with understanding that this kind
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of thing actually happens, you know. I think I was
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: kind of sheltered from that think like I'm happy for that, right,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: But I think it was a very like overwhelming does
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: this actually happen where children can get hurt and have
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: there be kind of nothing that we can do about it,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: which again there probably was things that we can do
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: about it, but that was the feeling was that we
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: can't do anything about it, We don't have.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: The power to do anything about it. I think that.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Her stepdad in this case might I think he I
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: don't remember specifically, but he might have been like in
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: law enforcement or that was the sense I had. He
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: was involved somehow in the criminal justice system, and it
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: felt like this is somebody that no one's ever gonna
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: believe is doing these you know, is doing these things.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: So there was a, you know, again that kind of
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: helpless quality to it.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: And now I kind of.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: Know this information, and I don't think I could have
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: put it in this language at that time, but I
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: think I felt a certain shame around, like am I
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: complicit somehow now that I know this, Like, you know,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is there something I'm supposed to be doing that I'm
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: not doing, you know, to keep my friends safe.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: To keep her little sister safe. So it was very
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I mean it was it was very heavy. It was
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: very heavy.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: What did you do anything that you're supposed to? Yeah? Yeah,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: what did you do?
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: My role?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I think this was really the best
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I could offer. I think that, you know, kind of
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: given the person that I was. You know, I had
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: talked to her about like, you know, could I let
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: my parents know? And she I think we both felt,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: actually because of the position of her father that it
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: was our stepfather, that this was like not going to
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: be the solution we you know, So I think I
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: really tried to take on a emotional support friend. You
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: can talk to me about this. I can be your
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: safe person to tell you can come over to my house,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: you can, you know, like kind of spend time with me.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: And I think I tried to be in a way, right,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: I tried to almost be like her, her little therapist friend,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: you know. And of course at that time I didn't
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: have the skills to do that, you know, but that
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: was that was kind of how I reacted or how
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I responded.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Well, that sounds pretty amazing. I mean you were you
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: were a great friend to.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Her, Yeah, I hope so.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I just wanted to jump back there quickly.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: So you this prison these it was all women, I'm guessing. Yeah. Yeah,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: when you walked in there initially and started seeing people,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: what was that like for you? I mean, that's a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's a that's an intense experience
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: it was for any of us.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, initially I was so I was a young social worker, right,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I started as an intern, so I was still a student,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: you know, at the time that I started there.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: And I think when I when I first walked in,
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: there's this sense of am I safe here? Right?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: And and and also also trying to look confident as
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: if I do feel safe, because I don't want to
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: insult anybody that I look scared, right, So there's all
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: this kind of like masking, you know, I'm trying to
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: do of look look confident, look like I'm not.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not afraid of you, I'm not afraid of this environment.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Will also not looking too cocky, you know.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So I think I was trying to navigate that quite
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: a bit.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: And and also it's a very it's it's it's tough as.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: A woman, I think, to see the way that just
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the sexism I think play out within that institution.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: You know, it's not all, but they tend.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: To have more women corrections correction officers at Framingham than
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: they do like in the male system.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: But still it's.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Generally security is generally men, and and you know, the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: there's a what is it, like a machismo or something
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: that kind of goes with that security role. I think
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: for a lot of people, they have to looked up,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: they have to be tough, you know, and to kind
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: of see like women who have lost a lot, lost
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: their children, lost families, you know, lost freedom, right to
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: have lost so much and to still kind of be
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: in the hands of men that are that have this
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: kind of domineering you know, presentation is tough. It's really
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: tough to sit with that and and to feel like,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: what's my role here? Am I? Like, are my colleagues
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the security team?
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Are those my colleagues?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Do we work together because we're working within this in
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: or you know, as my role here to kind of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: be with the women and think about how to sort
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: of uh survive in this really traumatizing sexist environment.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: You know, that was great question. Yeah, what how did
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you answer those?
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I came down on the side of the latter.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I would say that I there was definitely you know,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: specific officers that I made that I actually had good
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: relationships with, like it like a real friendship and and
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: in general, and I still so today I work in
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: the men I work in a men's facility in Massachusetts,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: which is like the it's the maximum security in Massachusetts.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: So that's sort of.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Holding that I do that work as well. Still, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I think where I've come down in my role is
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: that my job is not to make inmates be better inmates,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: which I think early on felt like, not explicitly, but
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: somehow implicitly felt like that was our role in the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: mental health team was like to kind of make people
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: behaviorally mentally well enough right to be sort of to
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: subject themselves to the rules and the regulations of the prison.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And I think I fell into that probably for a
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: little while as a newer clinician, not confident in myself.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Now now I remind myself regardless of what, you know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: how security team feels about this, and I'm respectful, right,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I don't cause fights with people about this, but I
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: always kind of keep in my mind that my role
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: is not to make people model inmates or to be
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: healthy in order to be subjected to the trauma of
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: this system. And so I've kind of come down on
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: the side of of really trying to see the person
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: in front of me as my patient, my client, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: treating them as I would anybody, as you know that
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I do like in my private practice as well.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: It does? I guess the one question I have is
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that sounds laudable, but they're in prison. Yeah, so how that?
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a fact?
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: It is?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does does it it? And how do you address that?
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Or do you address that? I mean, it's kind of
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: it's it's more than the elephant in the room. Oh yeah, right,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it seems great to say, Okay, I'm gonna work with
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: this person as a person, which is great, but.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so what does that mean?
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: What is that? And I'm asking you what does that
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: look like?
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Do Yeah?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I can look differently depending on the person, right,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you can't not every intervention, everything that we're doing together,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: you know, me and the person I'm working with, there
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is always the lens that this is happening within this
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: prison system, which is incredibly limiting.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: You know. So I don't want to how do I
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: say this?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be blase about that with the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: person that I'm sitting in front of.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? I think, you know,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: meeting with a.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Guy who's about to serve life is serving life, you know,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: now without the chance of parole, talking about the prison
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: system is going to be a huge piece of the work.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You know, that's devastating. Also, I think there is a
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: there is a way that I try to be frank
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: or transparent about in this system when you engage in
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: these certain types of like kind of fight back behaviors
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: that might feel good in the moment, and also we
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: notice that it has big consequences right from securities side.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: You know, if you fight back, you lose privileges, you
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: lose things, you know, And so I do try to
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: kind of help people slow down. And this is true
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: for anybody who's had you know, tremendous amount of trauma.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: We tend to react kind of impulsively, like we have
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: knee jerk reactions to trauma responses to things. So I
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: try to help people slow that trauma response down, try
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: to see if they can kind of get their you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: rational brain on board a little bit and say, Okay,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I really want to hit this guy.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: If I do, there will be consequences.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Where I think I shift towards my role as not
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: security is I don't say you shouldn't hit that guy.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I say, yeah, I understand that urge to really to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: hit him. What would happen if you did? Are you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: okay with that consequence?
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So I'm just trying to help him figure out what
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: do you want to do in this situation, in this environment,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: kind of knowing that there's all these punitive responses to
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: your behaviors or to the things you do. You know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: does that make sense?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: It does? Yeah? And it also by with that response
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: you're giving your you're kind of inviting them to appreciate
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: their limited autonomy. They have right to make a decision.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: All right, So let's switch gears here a little bit.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: EMDR intensives. When did this happen? What are you doing
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: specifically and who for?
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, okay, so when does this happen?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: A few years ago? I think a handful of years
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: ago now. So I've been doing IMDR for a long time.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I for a long time was doing kind of you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: trauma therapy AMDR therapy in the context of like one
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: hour a week sessions. I did a training in Northampton, Massachusetts.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: There's a trauma institute there where they do trainings on
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: like how to do intensive trauma therapy.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: So I did that. I kind of did it on
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: a whim. I was like, let's learn more about this,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and I was like, this is really cool.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: What is it? Yeah?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: It's basically you meet with somebody like almost all day.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: For me, I do four hours. Some people will do
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: six hours. I used to do six hours. I found
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: that was too much. But let's say you know, you
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: were a potential client. We would meet for an assessment
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: and then I would say, you know, based on everything.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I heard, I think you'll need five days.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: So what would happen is instead of you and I
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: working together in like a long term capacity, I would
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: meet with you for four hours a day for five
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: days in a row, consecutively usually, but sometimes we spread
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it out and we process through all the bad things
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that have happened to you.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: With the goal of it's a great time. Not quite
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: as you know.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: But it's intense, right, I mean intense is built into
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the name.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: It is intense, and it isn't for everybody.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I think people that do that work tend to be
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: the ones who are drawn to it, tend to be
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: ones where they've done a lot of other forms of therapy,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: feel some degree of kind of.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Tired of it and like maybe skeptical.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Or like I don't want to be in therapy for
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the rest of my life. You know, there can be
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: this kind of like I just want to do something
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and get better and I don't want to have to
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: show up week after week after week.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: And often, you know, I think another population.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: It works really well for people that are really drawn
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: to it, or people that are in certain professions where
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: it's just not really possible to do or sustain like
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: weekly therapy. So people who travel a lot, or students
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: you know, will do it like over a break, do
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: it over the summer.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: There's something kind of.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: There.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: There are many people who their jobs can't really sustain.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I'm gone one hour a week every week, you know,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: so it can be great for those folks as well.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: But I try to tell people it's kind of like
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: if you identify with I think there's more than two
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: types of people in this world, but if we were
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: to put it in that language, you know, there's the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: type of person that when they get into the pool,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: they like to like step into it gradually, right, And
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: then there's the people who want to jump in. So
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: this is for the people who are like I want
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: to jump in and like kind of get.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: It over with.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: What was it or is it about em DR?
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: That kind of attracted you in this ex compelled you.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did EMDR actually as a client myself.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I had had a bad experience when I was in
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Chicago and before I went to grad school, I went
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and I saw an EMDR therapist.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: She met with me for like I think it was like.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Four or five sessions completely like prior to seeing her,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: I was having all of these really, I mean really
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: typical PTSD symptoms.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Like can you can you share what happened?
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I was attacked actually by a co worker
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: at my job, and it was it was horrific because
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: obviously the attack was horrific.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: But then all physical.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: It was a physical attack. Yeah, he's stressed strength. It
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: was right, I know.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm able to kind of say this comfortably because
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: of doing the m DR. Prior to the em DR,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I was like, Oh my god, this like I'm never
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: going to be the same, you know, after this experience,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I was so anxious, I was so jumpy.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of bad things about it.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I wound up essentially kind of losing my job, but
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: in the sense of more of like being asked kindly
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to leave or not.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: So kindly to leave because they didn't believe me.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I think was ultimately like what happened, and you know,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: he had a completely different.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Narrative and story of what happened.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And I think they were I can't read minds, but
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the way I interpret it at the time is they
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: were like, this is messy.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Why don't you just go?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: And so that obviously a lot of shame came with
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: that as well, where I did start to feel that
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: sense of like this.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Was my fault or I asked for this, you know, and.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: We were having like a we we had a relationship
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: as well, like beyond coworkers. We were seeing each other
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: outside of work, kind of starting to date. So there
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: was this like quality to it of like not I
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: wouldn't say like an intimate partner in the sense that
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: we weren't like that. It's you know, we weren't like
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: boyfriend girlfriend. We were starting to kind of see each other,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: and I think that kind of added this other piece
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: to it of like, yeah, maybe I did versus like
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: you know, some stranger jumps out of the bushes and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: hurts you. The fact that it was somebody who kind
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: of knew me a little bit felt like, well, what
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: did I do that kind of solicited him to feel
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: like he could do that to me, you know. So yeah,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So I had that experience and I felt very broken
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: after and I was like, well, this is probably the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: rest of my life. I don't remember how I found
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: out about EMDR or I found this therapist. I think
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: my parents actually helped me. So I went and I
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: saw this woman and it was like.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Amazing. It was I mean, it was amazing. It worked.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I literally like at the end of it, I was
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: like every every symptom I had been experiencing was gone,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, this isn't like
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I don't have to actually spend the rest of my
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: life this way, you know. And so that I always
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: held that in the back of my head is one
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: day I'm going to learn to do this for other
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: people too, you know, because it's powerful.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: It's powerful.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Wow. So who do you work with that?
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I kind of have two general populations that
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I work, So I work a lot with My specialty
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: is working with people who experienced childhood sexual abuse, which
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I think kind of stems from that, you know, the
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: experience I had in high school, and a lot of
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: those folks I work with actually on a weekly basis,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: so I still kind of work. I have a small
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: handful of people that I work with weekly for one
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: hour a week. Sometimes we're doing em DR, sometimes we're
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: doing other forms of trauma therapy. And those folks tend
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: to have a little bit more of like dissociation, you know,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: impacting them. That's really common for people who experience childhood
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse. Dissociation is kind of a good strategy for
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: dealing with that. So we work a little bit more
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: on the complex trauma dissociation sort of REALM and then
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: and then I work with a lot of folks who
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: have experienced, you know, one time sexual assault or even
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: chronic sexual assault later in life, or have had just
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: really bad experiences that have you know, led to depression, anxiety,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: sometimes those really classic PTSD symptoms, insomnia, you know, certain
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: things where they're like they learn like, oh, EMDR might
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: be something.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: That could be helpful with that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Usually when by the time people reach out for something
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: like an EMDR intensive I think I was seeing this,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: they've tried a lot of other forms of therapy and
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: haven't found relief. And to me, that's a good flag that, yeah,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: you'rerobably someone who should try EMDR, because if the other
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: forms of therapy haven't worked, that's an indication there's trauma
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: underneath this, right, Trauma.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Just doesn't get it.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It's not really touched by talk therapy in the same way.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't It just doesn't resolve. It doesn't resolve
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: And I think that there are some forms of like
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: talk therapy that are better than others, you know, when
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: it comes to trauma. But I do think that you
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: need something similar to EMDR or other methodologies that are
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: really specific to healing trauma.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: What do you as we kind of wind down here, Rachel,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: what do you feel you bring to your work that
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: allows you to do this work?
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow? What do I bring to it?
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I think, I think and you know, I'm not sure,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: but I think I hope that I think my clients
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: be that sense that I really care about them in
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: a deep way. I think that there is a type
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: of love that happens. Actually, I would say in that
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: relationship between therapist and client, it's not a romantic love,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: it's not a friendship love.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: It's a very specific, I.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Think, unique kind of relationship where it's like and it's
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: it's sort of one way, right that my whole role
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: in being in this room right now is to be
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and to do what you need. And many people who've
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: experienced trauma, particularly early childhood stuff, have not had that experience,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: right of somebody who is just totally attuned and intuned
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: with like what your needs are and that this is
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: not about me. You know, this has nothing to do.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: You don't have to please me, you don't have to
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: do it right. This is all of it. And I
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: think I really like feel that way when I'm with
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: people too. There's a feeling almost like I'm almost feels
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: like a sounding board or something. I feel like I
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: literally feel how other people feel in their body, like
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I'm kind I kind of absorb that.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: And then EmPATH. Oh yeah, I guess that's probably what
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. That's really a lot easier way of putting it.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, and I think I think people feel that,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: you know, regardless of whatever methodology we're doing. I do
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: think people feel that. That's what I hope. That's what
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I hope.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's it. I love that answer. And I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: can feel.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: That from you, do you Okay? Good good?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I can feel that from you. Yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's tell people the best way to get
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: in contact with you and learn more about what you're doing.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, okay, So I would say the main way
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: so you can go to my website, which is E M,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: D R and intensives Boston dot com. So the intensives
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: is plural, and then there's a way to contact me
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: through the website or send me an email.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Rachel at e. M. D. R.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Intensives Boston dot com.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have that linked up here at the show
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Rachel,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: really appreciate you being here and just openly sharing your experience. Yeah,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: you're you're really an inspiration. Appreciate it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: So much for having me. Take care all back, good night,