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Killer Thriller: Why Natalee Holloway's Story Hits Even Harder Today · Legally Brunette

0:06
Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
0:07
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.
0:14
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.
0:19
Speaker 1: Some true crime cases fade from the headlines. Others become
0:23
Speaker 1: part of our collective memory. The disappearance of Natalie Holloway
0:27
Speaker 1: is one of those cases. In two thousand and five,
0:30
Speaker 1: the eighteen year old vanished during a high school graduation
0:34
Speaker 1: trip to Aruba, setting off an international investigation and leaving
0:38
Speaker 1: her family searching for answers for nearly two decades. Even
0:43
Speaker 1: after a confession in twenty twenty three, many questions and
0:46
Speaker 1: emotions remain. Today we are joined by actress Amy Gumminick,
0:51
Speaker 1: who portrayed Natalie in the two thousand and nine Lifetime
0:54
Speaker 1: movie Natalie Holloway. We'll talk about the responsibility of bringing
0:59
Speaker 1: a real victim to life, the emotional weight of stepping
1:02
Speaker 1: into such an iconic case while it was still unfolding,
1:05
Speaker 1: and how Amy looks back on the film now that
1:08
Speaker 1: so much more is known. Amy, thank you so much
1:11
Speaker 1: for being with me today.
1:12
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
1:14
Speaker 1: I have to say this movie, I mean, the entire
1:18
Speaker 1: case is so upsetting that it's hard to talk about.
1:22
Speaker 1: But this was one of your very first major roles,
1:26
Speaker 1: and I mean, what an incredible responsibility to have to
1:30
Speaker 1: portray this woman whose disappearance, I mean it captured the
1:34
Speaker 1: world's attention and it still wasn't solved at the time.
1:38
Speaker 1: So do you even remember, I know this was a
1:41
Speaker 1: bunch of years ago, but do you remember your reaction
1:44
Speaker 1: when you learned that you were cast as Natalie?
1:47
Speaker 2: I do, even just hearing you say that gives me
1:50
Speaker 2: the chills. It was I think one of my very
1:54
Speaker 2: first auditions ever straight out of college. Oh I remember
1:59
Speaker 2: even before getting cast, just getting the audition notice and
2:04
Speaker 2: immediately having sort of a guttural emotional reaction because I
2:09
Speaker 2: remember so clearly when it happened. Natalie and I were
2:14
Speaker 2: the same age, and it was really the first time,
2:17
Speaker 2: I think, as a teenager that I understood the dangers
2:23
Speaker 2: of our world as a young woman, and so when
2:26
Speaker 2: it actually happened and I'm watching it in real time
2:28
Speaker 2: in the news, it had a huge impact on me.
2:30
Speaker 2: So when I then was being asked to step into
2:32
Speaker 2: these shoes just as the as an audition, I remember
2:36
Speaker 2: having a moment of like, am I emotionally ready for this?
2:41
Speaker 1: Wow.
2:42
Speaker 2: And then you know, being cast. I think because I was,
2:46
Speaker 2: I was so new to this world. I really went
2:49
Speaker 2: into it trying to honor her as best as I could.
2:52
Speaker 2: I mean, I went back and watched little clips that
2:56
Speaker 2: were available, interviews with her parents. I later ended up
3:00
Speaker 2: reading her mom's book, but just to get a glimpse of,
3:03
Speaker 2: like who is this person? Because I felt like, even
3:05
Speaker 2: in the three minutes I had to audition, I wanted
3:07
Speaker 2: to honor her as best as possible and really no
3:11
Speaker 2: expectations of anything going further. So when I when I
3:15
Speaker 2: found out that I was cast in the role, I
3:16
Speaker 2: think it was shocking and a little bit terrifying, you know,
3:23
Speaker 2: most first and foremost because it was a huge responsibility
3:27
Speaker 2: as a young actress, but also because I wanted to
3:31
Speaker 2: give her family and hers the gift of sort of
3:34
Speaker 2: like telling her story and in some ways immortalizing who
3:37
Speaker 2: she was and celebrating life she had.
3:40
Speaker 1: I mean, that is such a It's not often that
3:43
Speaker 1: we get to do things that are so important, you know,
3:48
Speaker 1: like where there's another level to what you're doing, and
3:51
Speaker 1: especially at such a young age, it's quite a beautiful
3:53
Speaker 1: way to start. In my opinion, it's like just John
4:00
Speaker 1: Bright in there. Did you did you spend time then
4:03
Speaker 1: watching the video? There probably wasn't as much available then
4:08
Speaker 1: as there is now. All these things keep sort of
4:10
Speaker 1: you know, we get more and more information, But did
4:13
Speaker 1: you were you able to speak with her mom? Was
4:15
Speaker 1: she around at all? Was she involved? Not?
4:19
Speaker 2: Before I had asked? That was actually my first question
4:22
Speaker 2: when I got cast, was can I speak to anyone
4:25
Speaker 2: family friends? Because like you said, there wasn't very much
4:28
Speaker 2: available at the time. There were, you know, the news
4:31
Speaker 2: clips that we had seen. There was her mother's book,
4:35
Speaker 2: which was what the film was based on, so I
4:38
Speaker 2: read that and at the time I wasn't really there
4:42
Speaker 2: wasn't anything or anyone really accessible or that was willing
4:47
Speaker 2: to at that point speak to me. However, once we
4:51
Speaker 2: were filming her mom, Beth did come to set and
4:55
Speaker 2: was there ended up being wow, So I did meet
4:58
Speaker 2: her briefly. Her. My understanding was her day was supposed
5:01
Speaker 2: to be longer, but it was too hard to be
5:03
Speaker 2: there and watch it all play out in front of her.
5:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was what were you shooting when she came? What?
5:10
Speaker 2: You know, It's interesting when the day that I met her,
5:13
Speaker 2: it was we were filming sort of innocent parts like
5:19
Speaker 2: there wasn't it wasn't any and I'm sure that was intentional.
5:24
Speaker 2: I was filming a scene playing around with her my mom,
5:27
Speaker 2: but collegeberd a scene at the beach with my friends,
5:32
Speaker 2: so they kept it pretty light when she was there,
5:35
Speaker 2: even even having a few moments of interaction. We had
5:40
Speaker 2: some I had asked that we meet prior to just
5:43
Speaker 2: like meeting on set, so that we could have some
5:46
Speaker 2: privacy and wherever she was in her emotional process. And
5:52
Speaker 2: I remember the very first time I met her, they
5:55
Speaker 2: had her sort of off to this side, like near
5:57
Speaker 2: video village, but kind of in her own space, and
6:00
Speaker 2: I wasn't warned that she was going to be there.
6:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't know what I was walking into. Yeah,
6:09
Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden they were like Amy
6:11
Speaker 2: Beth and she sort of gasped when she saw me
6:15
Speaker 2: and just like got teery and was like, oh wow,
6:18
Speaker 2: they're really there is there was an essence about you
6:21
Speaker 2: that's Natalie, and it just I think, oh wow, it
6:25
Speaker 2: still gives me the Jill's thinking about it, and her
6:28
Speaker 2: interaction was pretty brief. I had hoped for more, and
6:33
Speaker 2: again had no idea what to expect. Yeah, and she
6:37
Speaker 2: did like a little interview for the film, and that
6:40
Speaker 2: was kind of it.
6:42
Speaker 1: This really reminds me. I interviewed Shane Meyer, who played
6:46
Speaker 1: Matthew Shepherd in his story, and he had a similar
6:49
Speaker 1: experience with Matthew's mom. He they were supposed to have
6:54
Speaker 1: this planned meeting and then he ran into her. I
6:58
Speaker 1: just got chills thinking about it, him telling this story
7:01
Speaker 1: like in the in a parking lot at the hotel
7:03
Speaker 1: or something, and she just like she just wept because
7:08
Speaker 1: there was a piece of Matthew in him too, like
7:11
Speaker 1: that similar thing of there's something extraordinarily special about that,
7:15
Speaker 1: you know, Like that's.
7:16
Speaker 2: Just yeah, And I think it's one of those things
7:19
Speaker 2: that will forever stick with me, just having that moment
7:27
Speaker 2: looking into her eyes and feeling the both the honor
7:32
Speaker 2: and the tremendous responsibility to tell their story, to tell
7:36
Speaker 2: her daughter's.
7:37
Speaker 1: Story, right, I mean it's literally as a mother, you know,
7:43
Speaker 1: your worst nightmare. It's my worst Nightmary. It's just unimaginable.
7:46
Speaker 1: And I think the only thing you can do in
7:49
Speaker 1: these situations, you know, like why do we tell these
7:52
Speaker 1: stories in films and television shows? It's to create some
8:00
Speaker 1: healing and closure and allowing people to understand really the
8:05
Speaker 1: depth of what people go through in these situations. You know,
8:12
Speaker 1: one of the things that made this case so agonizing
8:14
Speaker 1: is that you're in van der Slut. He kept changing
8:16
Speaker 1: his story over and over again. And I mean, what
8:23
Speaker 1: was it like knowing that her Nally's family was riding
8:26
Speaker 1: that emotional roller coaster every time they thought they might
8:30
Speaker 1: finally get an answer. You know, that is just an
8:33
Speaker 1: incredibly impossible thing to metabolize, I think.
8:39
Speaker 2: And I think that that is why Beth in particular
8:44
Speaker 2: kept going. I think, you know, it was eighteen years
8:47
Speaker 2: from the time that Natalie disappeared to when they had
8:49
Speaker 2: any sort of answer as to what happened to her.
8:53
Speaker 2: And like you said, as a mother, you know, I
8:54
Speaker 2: filmed this fresh out of college, and now I'm a mother,
8:57
Speaker 2: I have a very different perspective. You know, even just
9:00
Speaker 2: in the last few weeks, knowing that I was going
9:03
Speaker 2: to be talking to you, I have been watching some
9:06
Speaker 2: of the more recent interviews. Obviously, I've followed the case
9:11
Speaker 2: closely all of these years, but I think that one
9:15
Speaker 2: of the things that sort of kept her going and
9:18
Speaker 2: kept her hope alive. Was what you just said was like, Okay,
9:20
Speaker 2: how do I use my story, use my experience to
9:24
Speaker 2: help others to prevent this from happening to other families
9:28
Speaker 2: and a face and a support for those going through it?
9:32
Speaker 2: Unfortunately it's not that rare. But yeah, I mean I
9:36
Speaker 2: can't even begin to imagine the daily turmoil. You know,
9:43
Speaker 2: she talks about it as like she lives every day
9:47
Speaker 2: for her as a living nightmare.
9:49
Speaker 1: Right.
9:49
Speaker 2: I mean think any parents should ever have to even
9:53
Speaker 2: feel a fraction of like.
9:55
Speaker 1: It becomes that's now the story of your life. I'm
10:00
Speaker 1: always so moved by these things. This idea of your
10:05
Speaker 1: life just takes this complete oneint eighty and you are
10:09
Speaker 1: left with this option of what to do. Do I
10:13
Speaker 1: just completely lose my life and myself and everything, or
10:17
Speaker 1: do I try to repair and make some sense of it?
10:22
Speaker 2: I cannot. I don't know how any parent continues, you know,
10:31
Speaker 2: moves on and finds purpose and finds joy. And that
10:35
Speaker 2: was one of the things that was really striking when
10:37
Speaker 2: I met Beth was I was so in awe of
10:41
Speaker 2: her strength, of her like willingness to be there and
10:45
Speaker 2: put herself out there and be vulnerable and there is
10:49
Speaker 2: and you know, even watching interviews, you can tell there's
10:51
Speaker 2: there's something indescribable behind her eyes that is forever broken.
11:00
Speaker 2: I see that, I really do.
11:16
Speaker 1: Listening to his uron vander Slut's confession, there is this
11:23
Speaker 1: a very fine line between you know, exploitation and but
11:31
Speaker 1: I feel like it was so important for me to
11:34
Speaker 1: hear this person speak and realize this. He feels no remorse.
11:42
Speaker 1: This is like a that is a damaged, sick human being. Yeah,
11:49
Speaker 1: that has no the kind of very methodical. It's like
11:53
Speaker 1: he could have been, you know, reading a lunch menu
11:56
Speaker 1: to you like it was. I just could not get
12:00
Speaker 1: over it. And she her her mom is just so
12:06
Speaker 1: she's really something. I mean, she really is amazing, and I.
12:10
Speaker 2: Think it's survival. It's the only way she Yeah, she could.
12:15
Speaker 2: I mean even hearing her talk about her like her
12:17
Speaker 2: reflections of his confession, she shares very similarly to what
12:21
Speaker 2: you were just saying. But there's almost not an understanding
12:27
Speaker 2: in any way, but an acceptance of this is not
12:30
Speaker 2: a human, this is a monster. This is so he
12:33
Speaker 2: can't be upheld to the same moral standards. And at
12:37
Speaker 2: the same time, like how I don't know, I don't know,
12:41
Speaker 2: how you move on or how you forget or you know,
12:46
Speaker 2: I think for her after so many years, finally hearing
12:50
Speaker 2: what they believed now to be the truth.
12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, some sort of enclosure.
12:55
Speaker 2: I don't even know.
12:57
Speaker 1: When you were shooting the movie, did you have any
13:01
Speaker 1: theories or feelings about what you thought really happened to Natalie.
13:07
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there was never a doubt in
13:09
Speaker 2: my mind that he was guilty, that he killed her,
13:13
Speaker 2: and that it was intentional. You know, it's interesting because
13:16
Speaker 2: so much of the information that was provided to me
13:20
Speaker 2: through like you know, her book and the accounts of
13:22
Speaker 2: her family and friends. It was like a puzzle sort
13:26
Speaker 2: of putting the pieces together, trying to figure out and
13:28
Speaker 2: the stories were not that drastically different, but different enough,
13:32
Speaker 2: and each one more gruesome than the one before that,
13:35
Speaker 2: Like it almost became like the details weren't what mattered.
13:41
Speaker 2: It was just like some sense of like finding justice
13:45
Speaker 2: or I almost like wanted it to be justified in
13:48
Speaker 2: some way, Like maybe I wanted it to be an
13:50
Speaker 2: accident because I didn't want to believe that it was
13:54
Speaker 2: as horrible right it was.
13:58
Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the things that's heartbreaking about
14:01
Speaker 1: the movie. Is when you see the Beath character played
14:05
Speaker 1: by Tracy Poullin, when she's saying things like she gets
14:09
Speaker 1: these glimpses of hope, and she's on this mission like
14:12
Speaker 1: we're gonna find her. She like, it's just heartbreaking because
14:17
Speaker 1: you know that that's never going to happen, and it's
14:22
Speaker 1: just it's heartbreaking.
14:25
Speaker 2: And to be dragged along. I mean some you know,
14:27
Speaker 2: some of his confessions included possibilities that she was still alive,
14:30
Speaker 2: that she was sold to sex slavery, or so I
14:33
Speaker 2: think that there was you know, it's impossible to not
14:36
Speaker 2: lose hope even you know, obviously I'm very removed from
14:41
Speaker 2: the story and from the actual people, but I think
14:44
Speaker 2: even you know, as recently as a few years ago
14:46
Speaker 2: when he was finally well, I say, finally confessed, but
14:51
Speaker 2: the most recent confession, there was still this. I agree,
14:57
Speaker 2: you know, I knew in my heart and in my
14:58
Speaker 2: gut it was possible that she, all these years later,
15:01
Speaker 2: was still alive. But it's hard to let go of
15:04
Speaker 2: that tiny piece of hope because you're so bad as
15:07
Speaker 2: you know, want this to be a nightmare to be like, oh,
15:10
Speaker 2: it was horrible film that we watched, but it's not true.
15:13
Speaker 2: It doesn't actually ask people. And I think for Beth,
15:18
Speaker 2: because she turned her experience into sort of a newfound
15:24
Speaker 2: purpose or reason for continuing, she needed that hope to
15:27
Speaker 2: keep going.
15:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, I mean that's really because they they
15:32
Speaker 1: still there was never a body, which is something that
15:36
Speaker 1: makes it very concrete and real that someone has gone.
15:40
Speaker 1: And I think that's got to be a piece of
15:42
Speaker 1: why she needed this confession to be real. I guess
15:47
Speaker 1: they only you need some kind of way to move forward.
15:54
Speaker 2: It is beyond horrific, the whole thing.
15:58
Speaker 1: I talked to jirelle Jerome, who was in the Incredible
16:01
Speaker 1: series when they see Us, the Ava Diverne series about
16:04
Speaker 1: the Central Park five, and I was asking him what
16:08
Speaker 1: like the most difficult scenes were to do, and you know,
16:12
Speaker 1: he ironically said, I brought up this one scene towards
16:15
Speaker 1: the end, and it's it's it's like a fantasy, it's
16:19
Speaker 1: what if he didn't go to the police station kind
16:22
Speaker 1: of thing. And it's this beautiful scene where he goes
16:24
Speaker 1: to Coney Island and he has this beautiful time with
16:27
Speaker 1: his girlfriend and Jirell like broke down. He's like, that
16:31
Speaker 1: was the hardest thing to do because it was like,
16:35
Speaker 1: this is what could have been? You know, So I'm
16:38
Speaker 1: curious for you what what were the hardest things to
16:42
Speaker 1: shoot and was it a surprise? What was difficult? Do
16:46
Speaker 1: you remember?
16:47
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think two things come to mind. One in
16:52
Speaker 2: a you know, very similar vein there is a montage
16:58
Speaker 2: and I'm forgetting if it was in Natalie Holloway or
17:01
Speaker 2: Justice for Natalie, the sequel that we did sort of
17:05
Speaker 2: a happy montage and it was graduation day and Natalie
17:10
Speaker 2: like running through a field in her cap and gown
17:12
Speaker 2: and doing cartwheels and puddling with her mom and not
17:16
Speaker 2: necessarily like what could have been, but what the life
17:19
Speaker 2: that she had. This was a young girl who was
17:22
Speaker 2: so full of life and so full of potential. So
17:25
Speaker 2: I think those the happy moments. I can absolutely relate
17:29
Speaker 2: to what he said that they those were the most surprising.
17:33
Speaker 2: I think for me, like the difficulty in filming those
17:37
Speaker 2: was really surprising, Yeah, because I thought those would be
17:41
Speaker 2: the easiest to film. But it was the imagining and
17:44
Speaker 2: really understanding and living like the joy that was so
17:49
Speaker 2: was cut so short.
17:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, And maybe that's why it was so hard for
17:52
Speaker 1: her mom. Maybe that's why she couldn't stay longer. You know,
17:56
Speaker 1: they probably and rightfully so assume a scene like that
17:59
Speaker 1: will be easier for her to metabolize, but not necessarily.
18:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting that you bring that up to
18:07
Speaker 2: because I don't think I would have thought about that,
18:10
Speaker 2: but now reflecting the Yeah, the surprise of how hard
18:16
Speaker 2: those scenes were, and really, I mean every day was
18:20
Speaker 2: there was something there was you know, it was a
18:23
Speaker 2: hard rule to walk back to my hotel room and
18:27
Speaker 2: shake off at the end of the day, to live
18:33
Speaker 2: these nightmares on set every day, you know, obviously thankfully
18:37
Speaker 2: in a pretend world, but then to kind of reflect
18:43
Speaker 2: and replay, and it was emotionally very I think challenging throughout.
18:49
Speaker 2: I mean, I was really lucky to work with people
18:52
Speaker 2: like Tracy, who is so as a person, just so
18:58
Speaker 2: positive and so suppose live and she really became like
19:02
Speaker 2: my mom on set and kind of held my hand
19:06
Speaker 2: through those hard scenes and days, even if she wasn't
19:09
Speaker 2: literally there with me. And so I think because because
19:13
Speaker 2: of the subject matter, the cast became really close. We
19:18
Speaker 2: needed each other to process and yeah, like shake it
19:23
Speaker 2: off together and kind of come back to reality.
19:26
Speaker 1: Right, did you guys talk about the case on set,
19:30
Speaker 1: like with the cut, were you guys talking about what
19:32
Speaker 1: was happening or were you really sticking with the a
19:35
Speaker 1: little bit?
19:35
Speaker 2: It was mostly what you know, what was talked about
19:40
Speaker 2: in the script. There were definitely ongoing conversations I would say,
19:44
Speaker 2: amongst the cast, but also with the producers when questions
19:47
Speaker 2: would arise, especially because so much of it, everything that
19:52
Speaker 2: we played out from like a legal standpoint, had been
19:55
Speaker 2: at least mentioned in court at some point. But there
20:00
Speaker 2: was a fine line between you know, as the actors
20:03
Speaker 2: wanting to feel like we weren't embellishing or we weren't dramatizing,
20:06
Speaker 2: we were actually like staying as true to the story
20:09
Speaker 2: as possible, And so I think in that sense we
20:12
Speaker 2: talked about it, but there there was It was mostly
20:15
Speaker 2: as it pertained to the film and to the script,
20:18
Speaker 2: but then definitely after the fact, you know, anytime there's
20:21
Speaker 2: any sort of break in the case or update, everybody
20:26
Speaker 2: sort of like did you see this?
20:43
Speaker 1: Have you talked to your kids about this? Like do
20:45
Speaker 1: you what or how old are they?
20:46
Speaker 2: First of all their teeny, my oldest is four.
20:49
Speaker 1: Oh okay, so no, but it is definitely.
20:53
Speaker 2: Something that I don't even know how.
20:57
Speaker 1: How you bring up Yeah, I mean I think about
21:01
Speaker 1: I have a fourteen year old daughter and newly fourteen,
21:04
Speaker 1: and I just can't you know, I feel like, okay,
21:08
Speaker 1: so she's just I guess she just won't ever go anywhere,
21:12
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like it's a very hard
21:15
Speaker 1: to uh metabolize to not kind of become fatalistic and
21:21
Speaker 1: not because we all know. I'm sure you know this already,
21:25
Speaker 1: even even though you're old is only four that the
21:27
Speaker 1: more you say something, the less interested they are hearing it.
21:31
Speaker 1: So you know, it's like an impossible task to figure.
21:36
Speaker 2: Out even with you know, little tiny ones. My husband
21:40
Speaker 2: and I just talked about a few days ago, like
21:42
Speaker 2: how do how do we feel about things like sleepovers
21:47
Speaker 2: and plates? Like we're right on the verge of like
21:49
Speaker 2: we still go to the plates, but that yeah, right,
21:52
Speaker 2: there's a different reality and I think that that it is.
21:55
Speaker 2: You know, we were discussing how when we were growing
21:57
Speaker 2: up it really was like you're raised by a village
21:59
Speaker 2: and every but he was always at it. Yeah, and
22:02
Speaker 2: as long as my parents knew where I was, it
22:05
Speaker 2: was fine. But it's it has changed. It's different now.
22:09
Speaker 2: It is a hard thing you know, even though I'm
22:12
Speaker 2: not quite there yet with my own kids. It's it's
22:17
Speaker 2: a really terrifying thing to navigate because there's a you know,
22:19
Speaker 2: you don't want to be overprotective and keep them in
22:23
Speaker 2: a little bubble, even though we want to. And at
22:25
Speaker 2: the same time, I think, you know, you do have
22:28
Speaker 2: to be realistic and teach them like the reality of
22:33
Speaker 2: the world that we live in, the reality of the.
22:34
Speaker 1: World right has did Did making this film change the
22:38
Speaker 1: way you think about traveling or traveling alone as a woman?
22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was interesting so that the film
22:45
Speaker 2: was in We shot in South Africa, and like I said,
22:49
Speaker 2: it was one of my very first projects, professional projects
22:54
Speaker 2: as an actor ever. And my mom came with me
22:56
Speaker 2: for the beginning of the shoot. And I think part
22:59
Speaker 2: of that was because of the subject matter that I
23:02
Speaker 2: was like, wait, I'm traveling across and it was more her,
23:05
Speaker 2: I think her wanting to be right.
23:06
Speaker 1: She was like, I'm gonna stay.
23:08
Speaker 2: Her to what where? But it was I think a
23:11
Speaker 2: really big growing opportunity for me. She so she came
23:15
Speaker 2: with me and was with me for half of the shoot,
23:18
Speaker 2: also going you know, literally across the globe to film
23:21
Speaker 2: this thing. Having no idea what I was going to
23:23
Speaker 2: find on the other end, and she left halfway through,
23:26
Speaker 2: and so the second half of the filming was on
23:29
Speaker 2: my own. And I think that that I think it
23:34
Speaker 2: was a really like pivotal moment in my life of
23:36
Speaker 2: sort of stepping into like, Okay, I can do this.
23:39
Speaker 2: I am safe. I am with people that I trust,
23:42
Speaker 2: and seeing that she trusted, you know, trusted enough to
23:46
Speaker 2: leave me and let me experience this, obviously I was safe.
23:50
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's definitely something that I think about that
23:53
Speaker 2: I am. I think I probably think about more having
23:58
Speaker 2: had the experience of filming it than had I not right,
24:02
Speaker 2: even I'm more like subconscious.
24:05
Speaker 1: What was your reaction when Jurine van der Slute confessed
24:09
Speaker 1: to the killing in twenty twenty three as part of
24:12
Speaker 1: his plea agreement.
24:14
Speaker 2: To be totally honest. I was angry at first. It
24:17
Speaker 2: was like I didn't I didn't know if we could
24:22
Speaker 2: believe him. It was you know, it had been so
24:24
Speaker 2: many years and so many false accus are at confessions,
24:30
Speaker 2: and you know, after he extortion and just sort of
24:35
Speaker 2: this like horrible ring around that he had put her
24:37
Speaker 2: poor family through.
24:39
Speaker 1: Right, So were people who don't know he had extorted
24:43
Speaker 1: demanded two hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Beth, Natalie's mom,
24:47
Speaker 1: in order to give her information about what happened to Natalie.
24:53
Speaker 2: Which was false. Again right, So yeah, Initially I think
24:57
Speaker 2: my first reaction was like, again, like, you know, how
25:00
Speaker 2: do we know? How do we know? Why? Why would
25:02
Speaker 2: this time be different? And then I think following that,
25:07
Speaker 2: you know, he was then tried for murdering another young
25:13
Speaker 2: girl in a similar fashion, and I think that that
25:17
Speaker 2: sort of then became almost like a little bit of
25:22
Speaker 2: relief for the family of like, Okay, finally they can
25:25
Speaker 2: have some sort of closure or just like they know
25:29
Speaker 2: that he isn't just out there now, right, you know,
25:33
Speaker 2: even though he has never been tried for Natalie's murder
25:36
Speaker 2: at least like something.
25:38
Speaker 1: That is what I can't I can't get over that
25:42
Speaker 1: because so initially it seems that you all cover this
25:45
Speaker 1: in the film, and also in reality, I think this
25:48
Speaker 1: is very much true that his dad was somewhat protected
25:52
Speaker 1: in Aruba because he was an attorney and sort of
25:58
Speaker 1: up for some sort of important position, and so they
26:03
Speaker 1: almost they sheltered him in a way that seems totally
26:07
Speaker 1: outrageous to me, but so and his I also heard.
26:14
Speaker 1: I think it was one of the was this thing
26:19
Speaker 1: that this was I think in a documentary that the money.
26:23
Speaker 1: So they did give him twenty five thousand dollars as
26:27
Speaker 1: to sort of trap him, and then he used that
26:30
Speaker 1: money to get to Peru and that's when he murdered
26:34
Speaker 1: this other young girl. And so like the tentacles of
26:38
Speaker 1: this whole thing and the guilt that people feel, and
26:42
Speaker 1: it's just endless and it's so upsetting on so many levels.
26:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't you know, I don't know that they
26:50
Speaker 2: will ever truly be justice or if they will ever
26:56
Speaker 2: know the full story. Like you said, there's no body,
26:57
Speaker 2: there's no true evidence. But I think at some point
27:03
Speaker 2: in order to move on, you have to just believe.
27:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like you have to make an internal decision
27:10
Speaker 1: to say I believe this to be the truth, and
27:14
Speaker 1: now I can yeah.
27:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, but really never with any true closure or feeling
27:23
Speaker 2: of safety or security in any of it. Yeah, you know,
27:28
Speaker 2: he himself is a father.
27:30
Speaker 1: I did not know that until literally maybe fifteen minutes
27:34
Speaker 1: before we started talking today.
27:38
Speaker 2: What but it goes back to what you were saying.
27:40
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a person who clearly has no remorse.
27:43
Speaker 2: Who is you know, for lack of better words, not human,
27:47
Speaker 2: which is terrifying acknowledge that there are people like that
27:50
Speaker 2: that exist, and you know, someone like him who was
27:54
Speaker 2: free for almost eighteen years.
27:57
Speaker 1: That's as long as she was alive. Even more right,
28:01
Speaker 1: it's crazy. Do people still recognize you for this role?
28:06
Speaker 1: And do they bring it up to you?
28:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, it's sort of I always
28:11
Speaker 2: tease it. It's like the surprise that like always pops
28:14
Speaker 2: up I'll be doing something. And I just recently did
28:19
Speaker 2: a convention for a CW show, Supernatural that I worked
28:23
Speaker 2: on actually like around the same time, and had somebody
28:28
Speaker 2: bring me a picture from the film to sign, and
28:30
Speaker 2: it sort of caught me off guard.
28:32
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
28:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yes, it definitely comes up a lot, or
28:35
Speaker 2: even in auditions it will be like broad up people
28:38
Speaker 2: will ask about it. But even I would say, the
28:41
Speaker 2: most impactful I get, not recognition, but sort of how
28:46
Speaker 2: it has stayed with me is that every time Natalie
28:49
Speaker 2: pops up in the news, her story is any sort
28:52
Speaker 2: of coverage I get sent from multiple friends and family,
28:55
Speaker 2: like emails or links to news clips or article right
29:02
Speaker 2: in a way that feels, you know, obviously I'm forever
29:05
Speaker 2: connected to her story, but also a little bit surreal
29:11
Speaker 2: that there's like still there. I guess there is forever
29:14
Speaker 2: an association between she and I. M.
29:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a right. Now it's become part of your
29:22
Speaker 1: story too. I always think that's so interesting, And I
29:25
Speaker 1: don't think it's accidental. You know, when like the right
29:30
Speaker 1: people are chosen for these sorts of things, you know,
29:34
Speaker 1: it's clear that you can carry that weight with you, you know,
29:39
Speaker 1: like you're able to give that grace and you know important.
29:46
Speaker 1: So I think that's not an accident.
29:48
Speaker 2: And I you know, like I said, even from when
29:51
Speaker 2: I found out I was going to be working on it,
29:54
Speaker 2: I feel incredibly honored to have been a piece of
29:58
Speaker 2: her story in terms of honoring her memory for her
30:01
Speaker 2: family in some way.
30:04
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, this has been such a wonderful conversation. You're
30:09
Speaker 1: just such a lovely spirit in general. I'm so pleased
30:14
Speaker 1: I got to meet you. Is there anything you're working
30:15
Speaker 1: on you want to tell us about, or you just
30:18
Speaker 1: working on the little ones in your house.
30:20
Speaker 2: Right right now? Being mom? Yeah, yeah, the little one
30:24
Speaker 2: about to join our family.
30:27
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that.
30:29
Speaker 2: Is right now. I feel like that's like my greatest rule.
30:34
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yes, congratulations, thank you, thank you. Oh
30:40
Speaker 1: it's the best thing ever. And it does. I will say.
30:44
Speaker 1: I just was on a flight with two people not
30:50
Speaker 1: with them. They were sitting across from me, a couple
30:54
Speaker 1: with the little one who I would guess is like
30:56
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen months. So that which is the most exhausting
31:00
Speaker 1: age on an airplane with a child, because they're like,
31:04
Speaker 1: oh I can I can move my body and walk.
31:07
Speaker 2: Around nails and not just a seatbelt. How dare you restrict?
31:11
Speaker 2: I watched these.
31:12
Speaker 1: Two and these two people were just like I could
31:15
Speaker 1: see the exhaustion in their faces, and I said, it
31:17
Speaker 1: really is exhausting, but it gets so much more exhausting
31:22
Speaker 1: in a different way. You know, it's not, but it is.
31:26
Speaker 1: It does get easier too. I mean, my daughter's will
31:29
Speaker 1: sleep away camp right now. Oh I badgine that, which
31:32
Speaker 1: is like crazy town. That's a whole other set of
31:35
Speaker 1: like and then like you miss them and then you went.
31:38
Speaker 1: But then I'm like, wow, there's so many hours in
31:40
Speaker 1: the day now, Like I just have so much time
31:43
Speaker 1: to get things done.
31:46
Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means yeah, right, it's
31:49
Speaker 2: very much appreciated, so.
31:50
Speaker 1: You'll you'll get there, but enjoy it all. I'll enjoy
31:54
Speaker 1: it all. You can watch the film Natalie Holloway. It
31:57
Speaker 1: is streaming online as well as as the sequel, Justice
32:01
Speaker 1: for Natalie Holloway. Amy, you are a pleasure, and thank
32:07
Speaker 1: you so much for talking with me today.
32:09
Speaker 2: Thank you