Latest / All Bodies. All Foods. / Renfrew Conference Mini-Series Episode 3: Our Hair, Our Heads, & Our Hearts: Hair Stories & Eating Disorder Recovery, Part 1
Transcript
- 0:00Hey,
- 0:01I'm Sam.
- 0:02Hi,
- 0:02I'm Ashley.
- 0:03And you're listening to all bodies All foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 0:09We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.
- 0:19We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome.
- 0:23We would love for you to join us on this journey.
- 0:26Let's learn together,
- 0:29body image disturbance and body image dissatisfaction are well documented risk factors and hallmark features of most clinical eating disorders.
- 0:39So,
- 0:39of course,
- 0:40body image work is a crucial component in eating disorder treatment.
- 0:44But maybe there's one part of our bodies that we're not talking about enough in eating disorder treatment is hair.
- 0:52The missing piece in body image work can hair be a way to access and explore complex inner experiences,
- 1:00both conscious and unconscious.
- 1:03Can a hairstylist play an important role in the healing process?
- 1:07Does our hair tell a story?
- 1:09Well,
- 1:10Margot Maine and Charlie Bishop say that it absolutely does.
- 1:13And it's time for us to see the connection between our hair,
- 1:17our heads and our hearts.
- 1:19Our hair stories can reveal historical,
- 1:22cultural,
- 1:23social,
- 1:23spiritual and political information about all of us.
- 1:26It can be a vehicle for personal transformation,
- 1:29a form of communication,
- 1:31a canvas for self expression and even a powerful source of motivation and a reflection of progress and recovery as mental health providers.
- 1:42How do we uncover these hair stories in our sessions?
- 1:45And how do they help people heal to find out these answers?
- 1:49We sat down with our presenters Margo Maine and Charlie Bishop.
- 1:53Let's learn more about their fascinating presentation titled,
- 1:57The Language of Hair Multicultural Perspectives.
- 2:04Hello everybody.
- 2:05And welcome back to another episode of All Bodies,
- 2:07All Food.
- 2:08This is a very special episode.
- 2:11Um We are at the rent free foundation conference 2023 in person.
- 2:17Finally,
- 2:18after years of virtual so exciting,
- 2:22it really has been like three or four years since we've seen everybody four years in person.
- 2:28Um And it has been so refreshing,
- 2:31hasn't it?
- 2:32It's been wonderful.
- 2:34I forgot the magic of being together.
- 2:37There's just something so special about it.
- 2:39I got,
- 2:40I got chills a few times being here.
- 2:42I'm like,
- 2:42oh,
- 2:42I don't get this virtually like the power of just being together.
- 2:46It's incredible.
- 2:47It's been really nice not only to see Renfrew staff,
- 2:50but to see our friends that we've,
- 2:53you know,
- 2:54we're used to seeing at least once a year for so many years.
- 2:58And so with that,
- 2:59I'm going to introduce our very first guest,
- 3:02Miss Margo main phd Fa Ed Ce DS,
- 3:07the National Eating Disorders Association,
- 3:09founder and founding fellow of the Academy for Eating Disorders.
- 3:13Author of eight books.
- 3:15Most recently,
- 3:16hair tells a story.
- 3:18Hers,
- 3:18yours and ours,
- 3:20international eating disorders expert.
- 3:22And she practices in Connecticut.
- 3:25Doctor May loves getting up early to celebrate the earth.
- 3:28I loved that.
- 3:29Your bio.
- 3:30I like that.
- 3:31Yeah,
- 3:31I,
- 3:32you know,
- 3:32I included that in my bio a couple of years ago and it just like a bio shouldn't just be factual stuff.
- 3:37It should give you a flavor of the person.
- 3:39And I really do love the earth and I really celebrate every day.
- 3:42And so,
- 3:43yeah,
- 3:44so I said that I just want to comment also about you talking about the conference um for those of us who have come to every conference,
- 3:50I,
- 3:50I missed one.
- 3:52The first one.
- 3:52I didn't know about it if you can believe that.
- 3:55Yeah,
- 3:55I don't know if I must have been on a different planet at the time anyway.
- 3:58I've been to it every year and presented most years and for many of us,
- 4:02this is a ritual every fall.
- 4:04And uh I hate when the summer begins to end,
- 4:07but we all say the same thing.
- 4:09Then we have Renfrew to look forward to and you know,
- 4:13many of us have come year after year.
- 4:15It's a celebratory time.
- 4:16We all are learning together,
- 4:18celebrating the field,
- 4:20the advances in the field.
- 4:21Um It comes right before Thanksgiving in the holidays.
- 4:24It's kind of a very,
- 4:24very emotional time for all of us.
- 4:26So I think everybody is really thrilled to be here this year.
- 4:30So thank you to ReNu and the staff for,
- 4:32for pulling off.
- 4:34Definitely so much.
- 4:36And,
- 4:36and right,
- 4:36you've been a long time supporter of us.
- 4:39And how many of these conferences have you spoken at all?
- 4:43But,
- 4:43uh,
- 4:43well,
- 4:44only a couple I haven't spoken at.
- 4:45Yeah,
- 4:46I mean,
- 4:46uh because I always have something like,
- 4:48you know,
- 4:48I wrote eight books,
- 4:49like there's something to talk about usually.
- 4:52And I've also done,
- 4:53you know,
- 4:53a few other things uh collaborating with other people.
- 4:56So uh and Renfrew has been a place for me to come and share my uh viewpoints and you know what I'm excited about and to learn so much from other people as well.
- 5:05It's been a really important part of my professional life and you need to know that.
- 5:09Thank you so much for saying.
- 5:11So you are speaking at this conference,
- 5:15the language of hair,
- 5:18multicultural perspective.
- 5:21You believe that hair tells a story,
- 5:25the hair story.
- 5:27Yes.
- 5:28And that clinicians can learn a lot from their clients and clients can learn about themselves by knowing their hair story.
- 5:35What is a hair story?
- 5:37Well,
- 5:37first of all,
- 5:38um you know,
- 5:40when people hear that,
- 5:41I,
- 5:41when I was writing about the book,
- 5:42the book about Hair and that I did write a book about hair.
- 5:45The first response is what a book about hair as if like,
- 5:49that's so kind of stupid.
- 5:51And then within 30 seconds they're telling me a story about their hair.
- 5:56Um,
- 5:57it's,
- 5:57once you start thinking about it,
- 5:59rather obvious,
- 6:00you know,
- 6:00hair is like a symbol of ourselves,
- 6:04it's the first thing people see when they look at us when a baby is born,
- 6:07the first thing people talk about is what kind of hair the little kid had or if they're still bald and da da da.
- 6:13So it is a,
- 6:14it's an entryway into life.
- 6:16Um And uh hair is a,
- 6:21is used culturally um and ethnically uh to represent certain things.
- 6:28We are always uh using our hair to show transitions in our lives.
- 6:33Lots of times if um if a woman is going through a divorce or separation or loses a partner,
- 6:39the first thing that changes is their hair.
- 6:41Um Here is the way we can transform ourselves like that.
- 6:45And if it doesn't work,
- 6:46we can ret transform ourselves.
- 6:48Uh You know,
- 6:50I started work working on this book probably in the early days of the first Obama administration and then I wrote a couple of other books and got off task,
- 6:58but I was always still thinking about it.
- 7:00Then the pandemic came and without Renfrew to come to,
- 7:04I had more time,
- 7:06we all had more time.
- 7:08Um And also the other thing that happened during the pandemic is that many women had to face their hair in a different way.
- 7:14First of all,
- 7:14we were looking at ourselves on Zoom and other platforms all the time.
- 7:17Facetime and all that,
- 7:19that Zoom dysmorphia.
- 7:23It was a term in the media.
- 7:24Yeah,
- 7:24we couldn't like,
- 7:26we couldn't avoid what we looked like.
- 7:28Uh,
- 7:28and women's hair appointments were interrupted.
- 7:31Um,
- 7:32I had the last hair appointment with my stylist before we went off.
- 7:36And um I,
- 7:37I'm not high maintenance with my hair,
- 7:40but I do have my hair colored.
- 7:41Um,
- 7:42you know,
- 7:42generally once a month and so we went a whole bunch of months without it being colored.
- 7:46And many women are much more dependent on their hair and their stylist and all that.
- 7:51Um For African American women who are usually getting their hair treated to get rid of the curl and to straighten it because there's pressure on them to look different than their natural hair does.
- 8:01For a lot of women,
- 8:03it was really a critical time.
- 8:04Like,
- 8:04what am I going to do with this?
- 8:06And for some women,
- 8:08it was a growing time.
- 8:09They were able to um make peace with their hair naturally for other women.
- 8:14It was a horrible time.
- 8:15So I think the pandemic alone brought up a lot of issues for women.
- 8:19I became interested in hair as I watched my pa patients with their struggles with hair,
- 8:26obviously,
- 8:26for our patients who restrict so much don't keep good nutrition in their bodies.
- 8:31One of the first things that goes is,
- 8:33is the protein for your hair.
- 8:35You're just not going to have it going there so your hair isn't going to grow.
- 8:37So sooner or later it starts looking thin and,
- 8:41and straggly and unhealthy.
- 8:43Um,
- 8:44for a number of my patients that has been like the,
- 8:48the deciding factor when they decide to kind of turn the corner and start to work on their recovery.
- 8:54I've had a number of hairstylists be key people in the early decisions to start working on recovery,
- 9:00which is really wild.
- 9:02I've also had patients who like,
- 9:04I'm thinking of a couple of them who as they were getting better,
- 9:08decided to get a new haircut because they want to celebrate getting better,
- 9:11but it didn't come out,
- 9:12right?
- 9:13I've had patients become suicidal about their hair and my hair has never been that important to me.
- 9:18So that was like,
- 9:19I really didn't understand that.
- 9:22Um So I could see in my patients what it meant to them.
- 9:26But also as I,
- 9:27you know,
- 9:27I'm somebody who watches women in general,
- 9:29like I see what happened what happens for a lot of women.
- 9:33Um Hair is a really,
- 9:34really important part of our lives.
- 9:35For a lot of women,
- 9:37they feel better about their hair than any other aspect of body image.
- 9:41A lot of women have told me that here is the one thing where they don't compete with other women.
- 9:46It's kind of a safe thing.
- 9:48So I just have found it fascinating and,
- 9:51and guess what nobody else has written about here,
- 9:56you even said you really feel like it's the missing piece when we're talking about body image.
- 10:01Yeah.
- 10:01Look in any book,
- 10:02you know,
- 10:02Tom Cash wrote a lot of the books about body image.
- 10:04Any book about body image,
- 10:06look up hair and it's not fair and hair is so important.
- 10:12So many people,
- 10:13I was going to say,
- 10:14I distinctly remember my sister and I were in middle school at the same time,
- 10:18I was in the fifth grade and she was in the sixth and she decided she was going to cut b I know I'm right.
- 10:27Right.
- 10:27Mom did not know,
- 10:28you know,
- 10:29I'm sure we've all been there,
- 10:30done that,
- 10:30right?
- 10:30But she cut them very short,
- 10:32that's what they do and very short.
- 10:36And she really was depressed for like two weeks.
- 10:40I mean,
- 10:40it was my mom had to like pull her out of bed to get her to go back to school,
- 10:47you know,
- 10:47and it really is such,
- 10:49I mean,
- 10:50that of our body image,
- 10:51we own our hair like and,
- 10:54and you're right,
- 10:55we can change it and we can and we can change it again,
- 10:58right?
- 10:59But when we cut it,
- 11:00it does have to grow back and,
- 11:03and you know,
- 11:03you mentioned cutting bangs,
- 11:05that's like a developmental milestone for a lot of little girls.
- 11:07It's usually younger than that.
- 11:08456 mom isn't around.
- 11:11They go get the scissors,
- 11:12they do that.
- 11:13And it's often a really horrible time for the mom,
- 11:16you know,
- 11:17parents like their kids to look and all of a sudden this kid doesn't look good and it's kind of embarrassing and it's a step towards autonomy.
- 11:28I mean,
- 11:28what your hair looks like is something you're saying to the world.
- 11:32Yes.
- 11:33Yeah.
- 11:33Yeah.
- 11:33It's your form of expression that we,
- 11:37I feel like can own,
- 11:38like you said,
- 11:39better than typically anything else on our bodies.
- 11:42Right.
- 11:42Absolutely.
- 11:43It's quick and it's easy.
- 11:45And of course,
- 11:46if we were living in a different culture,
- 11:49um some of the mid eastern cultures where you have to be,
- 11:51your hair has to be covered.
- 11:53And um you know,
- 11:54women have lost their lives because they didn't have their hair covered a year ago.
- 11:59Um Massa Amini was stopped by the morality police in Iran and ended up dying within a couple of days of custody because her hair had fallen out from underneath her scarf.
- 12:12And in the year since then,
- 12:13there have been tremendous um protests realizing how women are oppressed because of their hair.
- 12:19And those cultures,
- 12:20Iran made stricter rules about hair covering.
- 12:24And just a couple of weeks ago,
- 12:25another woman was killed by the police in Iran.
- 12:28So we in the United States have so much freedom and we have to realize that.
- 12:32But here is,
- 12:33I've become,
- 12:34you know,
- 12:34we were talking in sort of a light way about hair but I also see it as a very serious feminist issue and a human rights issue.
- 12:40We should be able to decide what our hair looks like.
- 12:43Yeah.
- 12:44Yeah.
- 12:45Well,
- 12:45and I'm thinking about,
- 12:46you know,
- 12:47honestly,
- 12:48people of color and marginalized communities who have been expected to present,
- 12:54like,
- 12:54um,
- 12:54I think I saw on the news recently,
- 12:58um a teenager,
- 12:59a teenage boy in Texas got expelled because he was wearing braids and he got expelled one week after Texas passed the Crown Act that stands for creating respectful and open workplaces um for people around natural hair.
- 13:16And um it's a nat a national movement.
- 13:2023 states have passed it.
- 13:22We have federal legislation pending.
- 13:25Um,
- 13:25you know,
- 13:26it takes a while to get it through,
- 13:27but um it's about no one should be able to be fired because they don't have their hair a certain way.
- 13:34But currently in 27 states in our country,
- 13:38you can be fired because your hair doesn't look the way they want your hair to look.
- 13:42And that boy who was expelled from school,
- 13:45uh was that happened after the state had passed the law.
- 13:50So,
- 13:50and it happens much less for boys than it does for girls.
- 13:53But it's,
- 13:53it's,
- 13:54it is an issue and um and it is a way in which we are expressing ourselves and we should have that right.
- 14:00Definitely.
- 14:01Yeah,
- 14:02definitely.
- 14:03Well,
- 14:03Margot,
- 14:04thank you so much.
- 14:05Um It is really such a pleasure to connect with you and,
- 14:09and we can't wait to hear your talk,
- 14:12you know,
- 14:12at some point,
- 14:13we'd love to invite you back for a full episode if that sounds good,
- 14:16I'm there because I have so many more questions.
- 14:21I think we could have some fun with this.
- 14:24Thank you so much.
- 14:25I just hope my hair looks OK.
- 14:28Hear me though.
- 14:30OK.
- 14:31Thanks guys.
- 14:31OK.
- 14:32Thank you.
- 14:37Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies,
- 14:39All Foods presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.
- 14:43We're looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.