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The Glasses Helping the Blind See · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You are now listening to the EU startups podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this episode of these stars podcast as always.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm your host an editor David sending Garcia.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: today, I chatted with Cornell.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: he's the CEO and co-founder Of The software robotics hardware company dot lumen out of Romania.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Now you might not have heard about Lumen but you might've seen their headset kind of making their way across social media or pictures up it.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: The idea was what they develop is a virtual reality head set so you can picture.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: for the visually impaired, It's meant to do same functions and even go beyond with guide dog.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: That's for the visually impaired, that you put them on and it guides.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: You can tell where to go?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It is very interesting technology out of Romania.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: they're quite unique in the amount of funding.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: they've raised thirty three million by the latest numbers And really one of the first kind of deep tech startups side of Romania.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: So Cornell and I were able to chat over his background how the technology eventually came about.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: How has focus come up specifically with this past Childhood and growing up in a family that had disabilities, how inspired him to move forward the technology.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: And his hopes for Romania as an entrepreneurial country.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: what he thinks are challenges where he hopes to see the technology go whether it's adoption into other hardware or application of autonomous robots self guiding cars.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of interesting applications to technology.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: So I hope you're looking forward.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: there was your, what was it?
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: It was a eleven million that you raised through a grant in twenty-twenty five and then something previously also came into our attention.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And through our contact with the EIC we've actually come very highly recommended and talked about.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: so I'm very much looking forward to this episode today!
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: And...I have already given a spoiler here but maybe if could just run down who are & which do.
• 2:40
  Speaker 0: You're definitely So.
• 2:41
  Speaker 0: I am Sion founder of company called DotLoman.
• 2:44
  Speaker 0: But to go a bit of background here, that woman we built physically for mobility.
• 2:49
  Speaker 0: We actually started many years ago like thirty years ago when I was born because i come from family with disabilities.
• 2:55
  Speaker 0: everybody in my family has disability but me and they really show how much technology can help.
• 2:59
  Speaker 0: both the little technologies exist for people with disabilities And thats why we start this company five years ago In order to solve issues which we found in mobility Of People.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I think that's a great place to start.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: actually this This background they you have in this connection.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: That you have two disability?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I mean how you know.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: You grew up with it right.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: So from very early age you understood that there was people on your family People around you that had a disadvantage In certain senses when it came to everyday life.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: How did that kind of influence Your entrepreneurial journey?
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: because hey, you know It's also notable the use started programming Very early if from what i saw like round seven Building robots, thirteen.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So how did this all kind of tie together in the way you
• 3:49
  Speaker 0: grew up?
• 3:50
  Speaker 0: Well It's actually one of the hardest questions to answer and there isn't a simple.
• 3:54
  Speaker 0: I grew up in that I know nothing else.
• 3:56
  Speaker 0: That's how i grew up.
• 3:57
  Speaker 0: does what I know And for people it sounds very different than is very different then majority But its all I Know.
• 4:04
  Speaker 0: however You know some other things which we see well.
• 4:07
  Speaker 0: no when you come from family with disabilities Things are hard.
• 4:12
  Speaker 0: Also, for Mr.
• 4:13
  Speaker 0: in Europe Romania specifically things are even harder and born at the beginning of the nineties so Even Harder.
• 4:20
  Speaker 0: But I think there a few trades which you get out of it.
• 4:22
  Speaker 0: You give very quick trade And...you have to stand up For yourself..You Have To Do Things First Of All For Yourself Because Nobody Is There To Help You My Parents They Cannot Walk.
• 4:31
  Speaker 0: So From A Very Very Early Age i Had To Do A Lot Of Things Which Potentially Parents Can Help Their Children To Do.
• 4:39
  Speaker 0: In my case It Was Not The Case.
• 4:41
  Speaker 0: But you also learn very quickly that we have to support.
• 4:44
  Speaker 0: I was the only person who is able to freely walk, my sister has severe mental disabilities.
• 4:51
  Speaker 0: she cannot ride or travel alone and my parents they can not walk.
• 4:55
  Speaker 0: so... And it's a young thing in our family I was basically the person they relied on.
• 5:07
  Speaker 0: So from a very young age, I learned this concept that people are relying on me... ...I have to provide and offer things.
• 5:16
  Speaker 0: And he taught me resilience.
• 5:18
  Speaker 0: He taught me ambition.
• 5:19
  Speaker 0: It taught me for my parents.
• 5:21
  Speaker 0: My parents even with disabilities were working fourteen hours per day in order to be provided by him or her And it's impossible To become young and not get a bit of it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 0: so i owe alot.
• 5:34
  Speaker 0: A lot of my ambition comes from that.
• 5:37
  Speaker 0: And those are the things, and also third one curiosity because when you come for an environment which is so different but you leave now go to school You see people would children who don't have the same families as yeah becoming incredibly curious.
• 5:48
  Speaker 0: Why's our house not the same?
• 5:50
  Speaker 0: Is it designed in a different way So we can adjust to my parents?
• 5:53
  Speaker 0: why Can I do the same thing then my colleagues or doing?
• 5:56
  Speaker 0: you know i never traveled with My parents ever just sported by parents is the first time in December, I'll go for my first time to a concert with dad.
• 6:06
  Speaker 0: First time i'd do concerts at my parents' in my life.
• 6:09
  Speaker 0: Brian Adams Concert by the way... Brian Adams in Romania.
• 6:12
  Speaker 0: So it makes me incredibly curious.
• 6:16
  Speaker 0: and once you're curious You want to learn bit of everything And begin learning about everything.
• 6:20
  Speaker 0: then get into intellectual diversity.
• 6:22
  Speaker 0: Once we got this intellectual diversity We wanna combine things.
• 6:25
  Speaker 0: Then you can get creativity From creativity innovation.
• 6:29
  Speaker 0: just one last step.
• 6:30
  Speaker 0: And yeah, that's what I discovered in the last maybe fifteen years of my
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: life.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Then why focus on sight specifically as a disability?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Because from my understanding then the site isn't a disability that is present in your family.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Why go to them?
• 6:45
  Speaker 0: Not direct families do have cousins which are usually impaired.
• 6:50
  Speaker 0: It's actually more of combination about other things In my career after finishing university in Germany Back to Romania, actually for a while or short while.
• 7:00
  Speaker 0: And long story short after year and half I became head of innovation in one the largest automotive companies in the world... ...and it was twenty-three when that happened.
• 7:11
  Speaker 0: And we're twenty four, some incredibly young anyway!
• 7:15
  Speaker 0: And i worked on self driving, i worked electric mobility, i've worked on alot things which still are cutting edge by the way but were incredibly cut engage back then And you know, always having this inclination for disability.
• 7:27
  Speaker 0: Always checking what can be done better but also working on autonomous driving I got into a merger of two things... ...I've gotten to a merge understanding or very big problem which is happening from mobility people.
• 7:38
  Speaker 0: because if think about locomotive disabilities like my parents there are solutions.
• 7:44
  Speaker 0: But If we look at the mobility with visually impairment There's basically nothing in the last four thousand years.
• 7:50
  Speaker 0: You have the guiding though and you have the white cane.
• 7:53
  Speaker 0: Those are the only solutions which exist, nothing has changed here.
• 7:56
  Speaker 0: but at the same time I was coming for self-driving.
• 7:58
  Speaker 0: so i always think this connection of two things working together.
• 8:02
  Speaker 0: can we make something with self driving technology?
• 8:05
  Speaker 0: For the three hundred plus million people who cannot get a guiding dog because a guiding dogs is great solution visually impaired it costs two hundred thousand euros to get a guide though left hand cost.
• 8:19
  Speaker 0: no there's alot cars which are much cheaper than that.
• 8:22
  Speaker 0: Houses, which are cheaper then that and there're very few of them.
• 8:25
  Speaker 0: Twenty-eight thousand guide dogs to three hundred million visually impaired And I wasn't in the intercession on these two things.
• 8:31
  Speaker 0: That's how it happened.
• 8:32
  Speaker 0: One day let us build glasses for the blind.
• 8:34
  Speaker 0: No five years later we'll be building glasses For The Blind.
• 8:39
  Speaker 0: People expect you'd be like a eureka moment or something.
• 8:42
  Speaker 0: No!
• 8:42
  Speaker 0: The biggest thing ever done.
• 8:46
  Speaker 0: There was never eureka moment behind it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 0: It's very easy to connect the dots now looking backwards.
• 8:51
  Speaker 0: back then when we're beginning he was like Let's see if even possible Right is will build.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: So I guess this is a good point than to ask how it works because you know, um blissfully ignorant of just about anything mechanical in this world.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: so i think I'm just about the lowest denominator here of explaining to how this works.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: How does technology work?
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: How do you help blind people navigate?
• 9:20
  Speaker 0: Sure, first of all by the way software.
• 9:23
  Speaker 0: we happen to build hardware but what will be the software or a software company which happens to design it on hardware?
• 9:29
  Speaker 0: let me do an analogy.
• 9:31
  Speaker 0: Most people know the guiding dog.
• 9:33
  Speaker 0: So, as a blind person you have a guiding dog.
• 9:34
  Speaker 0: The guiding dog works by pulling your hand avoiding from obstacles keeping on the sidewalk helping to cross a crossing and if they really know the route You can even ask them take it two places.
• 9:46
  Speaker 0: You can train with multiple ways of taking home or work.
• 9:49
  Speaker 0: That's what the guiding dogs does.
• 9:52
  Speaker 0: But its fundamental way is about pulling your hands As hard as possible.
• 9:57
  Speaker 0: What we will build?
• 9:58
  Speaker 0: exactly that more.
• 10:00
  Speaker 0: But you know, we built a headset.
• 10:01
  Speaker 0: So where not on your hand?
• 10:02
  Speaker 0: We can't pull our hands but we can put your head.
• 10:05
  Speaker 0: so what the blind person does with the device is they actually feel an interface of haptics here On the forehead which he's actually pulling your hand avoiding You from obstacles keeping you in the sidewalk taking it to her destination.
• 10:16
  Speaker 0: So I think that people do this.
• 10:18
  Speaker 0: Give them back as little domain features because they have very very simple names.
• 10:23
  Speaker 0: A very simple one finding Find me and you say what object.
• 10:27
  Speaker 0: You want to be fine?
• 10:27
  Speaker 0: And the device was.
• 10:28
  Speaker 0: look around.
• 10:30
  Speaker 0: if they cannot see it will begin traveling and remembering where he saw things like that in a moment.
• 10:34
  Speaker 0: If it sees, It takes you do it and describes right is?
• 10:37
  Speaker 0: you can put your hand on it.
• 10:38
  Speaker 0: That's very basic functionality.
• 10:40
  Speaker 0: Let's get into the complex one.
• 10:41
  Speaker 0: guide me Guide me Is exactly What A guide book does you know if you have a guy dog?
• 10:45
  Speaker 0: you don't necessarily?
• 10:46
  Speaker 0: That's actually a misconception.
• 10:47
  Speaker 0: if you Have a guide or you Don't have To tell you Where to take you are In charge of where you have to go.
• 10:53
  Speaker 0: The guide dog only has the purpose of avoiding your from obstacles, keeping on the sidewalk and stopping every now-and then.
• 10:58
  Speaker 0: And that's what we did done with a GuideMe function.
• 11:01
  Speaker 0: You start it in device will take you into direction when want.
• 11:03
  Speaker 0: It'll tell you whether there is an intersection or if there are crosswalks or things like this.
• 11:07
  Speaker 0: Then they always guide around obstacles and keep you safe.
• 11:11
  Speaker 0: There's also the ultimate level.
• 11:12
  Speaker 0: We call it TakeMe.
• 11:14
  Speaker 0: That's pretty, actually technologically insane.
• 11:17
  Speaker 0: You can simply take a smartphone, blind people use their smartphones.
• 11:20
  Speaker 0: Search for Google Maps or whatever app you want your destination Press share Share it to the glasses and the glass is taken there.
• 11:27
  Speaker 0: And that's navigating all kinds of obstacles.
• 11:30
  Speaker 0: Handling crossings Soon will take more time but soon even public transport integration Like we'll take you on bus station We help get out of the bus and go through our destinations.
• 11:40
  Speaker 0: That what we do!
• 11:41
  Speaker 0: There are some features But yeah... Right.. That basically how I used this device
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't need a connectivity at all times?
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: No.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Then do you need access to Wi-Fi data?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and none of that, okay?
• 11:51
  Speaker 0: Everything happens on device... It's very hard to explain.
• 11:58
  Speaker 0: so I have great slide on this but just want to describe how ridiculously complex is there.
• 12:03
  Speaker 0: There only one other system in the entire world who does This and That Is A Self Driving Car.
• 12:10
  Speaker 0: But let us discuss self driving car.
• 12:12
  Speaker 0: You Have Two Ton Machine ten cameras, three LiDARs and a processing board which is this size you know bigger than the computer.
• 12:23
  Speaker 0: And you have infinite battery from standpoint of processing because You can easily do three hundred feel five hundred watts of sensors end computing.
• 12:31
  Speaker 0: We have none of that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 0: we have something would you have to put on your head comfortably?
• 12:35
  Speaker 0: To give you numbers.
• 12:36
  Speaker 0: so we haven't the same compute power as what Tesla had roughly two years ago in The device In a form factor which is the size of our VR headset, it was an insane amount of engineering.
• 12:49
  Speaker 0: Insane amounts of software and hardware engineering to build this self-driving car.
• 12:54
  Speaker 0: that's not fifty to sixty kilos but something under a kilo you can put on your head And very soon much less than a kilo actually because we gotta know some things.
• 13:05
  Speaker 0: But thats a secret.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I'll look forward to it.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so then harking back a little bit here to the dog aspect of everything.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: So the ambition really is to replace The guide-dog.
• 13:19
  Speaker 0: No?
• 13:20
  Speaker 0: We don't want to replace A Guide-dog for no reason.
• 13:24
  Speaker 0: There are twenty eight thousand guide dogs To three hundred million visually impaired.
• 13:27
  Speaker 0: there's nothing worth replacing.
• 13:29
  Speaker 0: What we're doing Is provide the same benefits as to all the people who can't have one.
• 13:36
  Speaker 0: That's what we're doing.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And you mentioned that price of having a guy dog, maintaining eye dogs.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: What prices are there then on your glasses?
• 13:46
  Speaker 0: It varies country by country.
• 13:48
  Speaker 0: I mean it varies country-by-country.
• 13:50
  Speaker 0: so medical device would get reimbursed differently and our goal is very simple Make it either incredibly cheap or free for those.
• 13:59
  Speaker 0: So here in Romania, case and point.
• 14:01
  Speaker 0: Here in Romania we price it at ten thousand euros VAT included but there's no... There are a few who paid.
• 14:09
  Speaker 0: But we're on the programme of reimbursement where people in Romania get it for free.
• 14:15
  Speaker 0: so now visually impaired in Romania for this year hopefully to expand that a lot they give you for free.
• 14:25
  Speaker 0: It was always designed like that, because technology at this level of complexity will be expensive.
• 14:30
  Speaker 0: There's nothing you can do about it and as a medical device how the world works.
• 14:35
  Speaker 0: there are reimbursement pathways where part of those reimbursements pathways.
• 14:39
  Speaker 0: but the price is not universal.
• 14:40
  Speaker 0: so in some countries it varies.
• 14:42
  Speaker 0: Some countries would be more expensive or cheaper.
• 14:45
  Speaker 0: My goal is to make sure many people get it while being scalable.
• 14:52
  Speaker 0: So
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: then what's the market expansion look like for you?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: You're mentioning price in Romania.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Are you Europe wide or are you worldwide, What does that looking like
• 15:03
  Speaker 0: right now?
• 15:04
  Speaker 0: I mean we're certified here in Europe and We do have orders from all over Europe.
• 15:11
  Speaker 0: where were?
• 15:12
  Speaker 0: we're in the regulatory pathway to sorry In the reimbursement pathway To be reimbursed multiple countries.
• 15:19
  Speaker 0: It's a lot of work but we're doing it And obviously there's a ranking and there are some markets in which we want to go.
• 15:27
  Speaker 0: The unfortunate thing, people in MedTech know this the unfortunate things is that even if regulatory wise has one regulation for the entirety of the EU it does not run market In each country sometimes regions on that market There's different way to be reimbursed.
• 15:45
  Speaker 0: It's lot of work.
• 15:46
  Speaker 0: So you know in Romania We have program.
• 15:50
  Speaker 0: In other countries, Spain funding goes completely different way.
• 15:54
  Speaker 0: Germany can be land-based, Sweden and municipalities are the ones paying for something like this.
• 16:00
  Speaker 0: so it really varies but the goal stays the same getting as many regions possible and we're doing that and expect news.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I'm excited!
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Originally we had included...I'd forgotten to mention this but it's now defunct.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: We used have a health tech newsletter called the Health Hack and that is where you first came up And i think thats interesting because its very easy to look at your company through a software robotics angle which obviously does But Its also very much a health company.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: You're including health programs across Europe like.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that's an important element of what you do
• 16:46
  Speaker 0: It isn't... I think we can even go to different subjects.
• 16:50
  Speaker 0: What actually are we?
• 16:52
  Speaker 0: We build physical effort mobility.
• 16:54
  Speaker 0: That is why we built it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 0: We build physically effort mobility Which goes into multiple news cases But fundamentally To going through the bigger news.
• 17:03
  Speaker 0: There were recent news on this.
• 17:06
  Speaker 0: You know there was a new.
• 17:06
  Speaker 0: we accessed an eleven million Euro grant Last year Romanian EU grants.
• 17:12
  Speaker 0: So it's just to make a fun thing here, you know?
• 17:17
  Speaker 0: You read the title, you're reading the title – ELEVEN MILLION Euro for Dublin to build robots!
• 17:21
  Speaker 0: But very few people understand actually what goes into a grant and how much time is working on a grant of that dimension.
• 17:30
  Speaker 0: It can take from when it was announced easily nine months until we begin doing something not because you would have wanted to do things that day one, it's just the process and bureaucracy.
• 17:41
  Speaker 0: It is what it is... Fortunately people know this but I don't want us saying we're going into robotics.
• 17:52
  Speaker 0: so what happened?
• 17:54
  Speaker 0: Fundamentally how can we take a leg identity from point A to point B where ever?
• 18:01
  Speaker 0: point A or point Bs?
• 18:02
  Speaker 0: That's what we fundamentally know.
• 18:05
  Speaker 0: It just happened that visually impaired people were the first lagged entity, which we wanted to take from point A-to-point B. And also the hardest challenge out of all the lagged entities in the world... Trust me!
• 18:17
  Speaker 0: Guiding visually impaired is the hardest.
• 18:20
  Speaker 0: But there are other lagged entities — humanoid robots and quadrupedrobots—which can use this.
• 18:26
  Speaker 0: What we announced last year was this eleven million euro grant for food delivery with Humanoid?
• 18:33
  Speaker 0: and quadruped robots.
• 18:34
  Speaker 0: So when you order a pizza, twenty or forty-fifty minutes pass And then something knocks on your door.
• 18:40
  Speaker 0: You open the door.
• 18:41
  Speaker 0: it's humanoid robot giving good at pizza Which I know sounds very futuristic But its insane how close we are to death.
• 18:49
  Speaker 0: The fact that we own the patents for that is also incredibly saying From business perspective and from personal perspective.
• 18:56
  Speaker 0: We were first ones who solved this.
• 18:58
  Speaker 0: It was absolutely incredible.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: So what is your ambition To kind of go to that place with the company or will it always have this, sorry?
• 19:08
  Speaker 0: We are going already.
• 19:09
  Speaker 0: Okay
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: but do you look past the blind and visually impaired focus of the company Or would that be a core element for what we're doing?
• 19:21
  Speaker 0: This company has four values And number one value is called make meaning not money.
• 19:27
  Speaker 0: Money comes after.
• 19:28
  Speaker 0: That's our number-one value.
• 19:29
  Speaker 0: So obviously things which help people.
• 19:33
  Speaker 0: Our goal is to build things that will help people, I mean glasses were the first one and people with a glass.
• 19:39
  Speaker 0: there are more things coming very soon.
• 19:40
  Speaker 0: some of it maybe its public can be deduced from some grants or patents but we're building.
• 19:46
  Speaker 0: you know generation One is on market Generation Two in R&D, Generation Three may be already in R & D. so once everybody should have their first product obviously everyone's working on second one.
• 20:01
  Speaker 0: And if the first one changed a game, One of things which makes me proud is that second one was also changing.
• 20:10
  Speaker 0: Because you know... The first one is exponential innovation break for innovation and the second one is incremental.
• 20:16
  Speaker 0: Second one's not incremental.
• 20:18
  Speaker 0: That amazing fact we're able to.
• 20:21
  Speaker 0: But I cannot release any timeline on this secret.
• 20:24
  Speaker 0: Stay tuned.
• 20:25
  Speaker 0: We're always going to keep the glasses, we are also gonna keep building things which help and there's multiple ways of helping even with a robotics side.
• 20:31
  Speaker 0: I mean when you look at your robotic side There is so many great applications Which can do exactly what they have on their glasses.
• 20:37
  Speaker 0: And just to clarify one thing Every minute that we spend developing the glass it's a minute we develop robots.
• 20:43
  Speaker 0: every minute we spent Developing robot in a minute will be developed glasses.
• 20:46
  Speaker 0: It's ninety nine point computer some point present The same software no differences.
• 20:53
  Speaker 0: The software which guides a blind person is the software that guides robot.
• 20:56
  Speaker 0: Nothing's different, less than one percent is different.
• 21:01
  Speaker 0: So there are so many great applications.
• 21:05
  Speaker 0: thinking of my parents Thinking about... My job when I was four-year old and they were sending me to buy things at local store because it was only available You cannot imagine how hard it would be carrying two liters of water while you're four years old And all of those things.
• 21:21
  Speaker 0: there are so many people in the situations which do not have a family member, they don't have social worker who can help them.
• 21:28
  Speaker 0: Those kind of situation with robots that helps a lot... Sorry!
• 21:33
  Speaker 0: Outdoor mobility or pedestrian mobility robots can help you a lot.
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: So there's so much great thing for the visual impaired although despite whatever we read on news You will never see robot dog guiding a blind person.
• 21:48
  Speaker 0: Stupidest ideas I ever saw.
• 21:50
  Speaker 0: and you will not see it from us.
• 21:52
  Speaker 0: And whoever is working in that direction, he's fundamentally flawed.
• 21:55
  Speaker 0: The reason why a guide dog looks how?
• 21:57
  Speaker 0: It looks because there was no other creature which can do that Is not because the optimum shape of doing that.
• 22:04
  Speaker 0: so yeah we're always gonna help people okay.
• 22:07
  Speaker 0: Okay.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So then you know You've talked about the R&D process of it and How its can fundamentally be helping blind people.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Have you had kind of advisory roles on the team during development from visually impaired people?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, where there are steps along wherever he said oh shit.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't think about this.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: You know obviously we need to have This because if you as somebody who can see would never have thought that was needed
• 22:35
  Speaker 0: One of the first.
• 22:37
  Speaker 0: so when we started a company There were five or six employees.
• 22:41
  Speaker 0: one of them was blind.
• 22:43
  Speaker 0: He still is here by doing Marianne his around your summer.
• 22:47
  Speaker 0: But now we... there's an expression, nothing for people with disabilities without people with disability.
• 22:54
  Speaker 0: I think that is how the discussion went.
• 22:58
  Speaker 0: Visual impairment while it seems very simple to understand like being blind.
• 23:02
  Speaker 0: It seems really simple on a first level understanding what he means.
• 23:04
  Speaker 0: trust me its one of the hardest things you have understood.
• 23:07
  Speaker 0: We do constant exercises so every new person in this company gets a sensibility course which we blindfold them and take four hours.
• 23:16
  Speaker 0: A lot of things like they cook, They go out to shop and we do that periodically ourselves.
• 23:22
  Speaker 0: To better understand the challenge.
• 23:24
  Speaker 0: And then We work with a lot of visually impaired people With a lot Of them.
• 23:28
  Speaker 0: so we have our pilots who are The ones will get Experimental software releases before everybody else?
• 23:34
  Speaker 0: And they can actually give it direct feedback.
• 23:35
  Speaker 0: and there Are the ones which would build a relation in Which we could understand each other very Very easily.
• 23:39
  Speaker 0: So we know what this ever means.
• 23:42
  Speaker 0: It's a very, very... They do tremendous model work and some of them have guide dogs.
• 23:45
  Speaker 0: by the way they still use their device because you can't always have a guide dog with you.
• 23:51
  Speaker 0: so those are some of then we organized I think the biggest roadshow in the history of assistive technologies for sure in Romania but i think it is actually much more.
• 24:04
  Speaker 0: So we went to fifty one cities in Romania such that a total of just under one thousand, which kind of bugs me because I wanted one thousand.
• 24:13
  Speaker 0: Almost one-thousand blind people got the chance to experiment on technology and we did this from the most rural places or the most urban place in Romania.
• 24:22
  Speaker 0: And if you've got feedback for more than a thousand people so get feedback constructive well organized feedback from thousands customers.
• 24:30
  Speaker 0: it's very rare On product with this category.
• 24:35
  Speaker 0: It is almost unheard of.
• 24:37
  Speaker 0: So we work with a lot of visually impaired on this.
• 24:40
  Speaker 0: And there were other moments in which something that made perfect sense for us didn't, or some things make no sense to us.
• 24:46
  Speaker 0: and it makes sense.
• 24:48
  Speaker 0: even if you have a few insights here specifically on visual impairment It's not the one size fits all.
• 25:02
  Speaker 0: There are lots of requests like customization.
• 25:06
  Speaker 0: Give an example.
• 25:08
  Speaker 0: While you're traveling with a device, the device can tell if your passing across or if you are pressing a door.
• 25:13
  Speaker 0: it can also tell whether you are passing upstairs.
• 25:16
  Speaker 0: Some people care about that.
• 25:17
  Speaker 0: some people care to be announced three meters in advance.
• 25:20
  Speaker 0: Some only want to be advanced when they exactly next to them.
• 25:22
  Speaker 0: So there's lot of small things which we couldn't find a common denominator for everybody And give options to configure their use cases.
• 25:32
  Speaker 0: To give examples We have some blind people which ask me how they can use the device to find their ship.
• 25:41
  Speaker 0: They live on a rural side and they have ships, cows or things like this.
• 25:46
  Speaker 0: if devices could actually guide them together we do detect cows but when ever implemented into level of take-me-to-a cow it is very easy to activate.
• 25:55
  Speaker 0: so there are lot's interesting thing that you found along the way.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: I mean this might be a silly question, but it's something that i'm wondering about here.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: is That uh you know adjacent to everything.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: You're doing right.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: there's also push for kind of Integrated reality glasses right?
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: For the everyday user.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: write.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: people want have those Apple Glasses.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: they tried pitching right Google glass.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: all these things are kinda come and gone A little bit in.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: They try And do.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Is The ambition To Kind Of Be able to Insert That Into Maybe Wider Used Products from larger tech companies, or will it always be the dot-lumen glass?
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Because you mentioned your software company primarily as well and more than a hardware one.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Would then the ability to just open the software up to be integrated into other products?
• 26:47
  Speaker 0: There is a scenario in that there's a scenario.
• 26:52
  Speaker 0: I mean like we give very stupid example do some issues.
• 26:57
  Speaker 0: I was on my phone, walking like this with the phone and hit
• 27:00
  Speaker 0: something."
• 27:01
  Speaker 0: And i was like...I wouldn't have done that if it had a little glasses!
• 27:05
  Speaker 0: So obviously there are some use cases.
• 27:09
  Speaker 0: Um..i can go to watch the subject.
• 27:13
  Speaker 0: There's things im going.
• 27:14
  Speaker 0: um again there're thing which is aligned with our values.
• 27:21
  Speaker 0: we aren't gonna do them And I believe that if we stick to our values and we stick the simple idea of building things which help people, We are gonna be very successful.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Okay so it's safe to say its being considered right?
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: It
• 27:34
  Speaker 0: is more than consider but Okay,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: okay.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Then I kind of want to shift over here because you talked about how this road show made the biggest difference in Romania and mentioned your impact on the Romanian system.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: And that leads me into a question i have Because we don't really see a lot of Romanian start-ups.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Of note You know what?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Here at You Startups In The Newsroom We Have An Ongoing Broad Look At The Whole Continent right, of things that are going on.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: and truth is Romania we don't really see a lot.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: So I kind want to hear your thoughts then how you see your national startup innovation ecosystem like what are the challenges of it?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: What can...what's missing to push forward more entrepreneurs from where you're from?
• 28:25
  Speaker 0: Oh yes i one hundred percent agree with you We are...Romania is the least innovative country in EU according to the EU innovation scoreboard.
• 28:33
  Speaker 0: So that's official statistic from the EU, and it is not like we're the last now or since.
• 28:38
  Speaker 0: that score board exists for fourteen of fifteen years.
• 28:42
  Speaker 0: And where are less?
• 28:43
  Speaker 0: For multiple reasons It was very hard to pinpoint just one but let me pinpoint a few in no particular ranking order.
• 28:52
  Speaker 0: We already tried to be risk adverse.
• 28:55
  Speaker 0: We come form a capitalist regime.
• 28:56
  Speaker 0: culturally everything were incredibly risk-averse.
• 28:59
  Speaker 0: there's NO Deep Tech, we were the first deep tech startup in Romania.
• 29:04
  Speaker 0: There was no deep tech start-up in Romania and now officially I think there are two maybe three deep tech startups here in Romania out of which one i'm not sure if they're still alive.
• 29:12
  Speaker 0: so just to answer that glimpse you know deep tech means a lot of investment before you actually have some revenue.
• 29:17
  Speaker 0: We spent hope.
• 29:19
  Speaker 0: i am not mistaken but i think we spend ten million before revenue.
• 29:22
  Speaker 0: well a bit less... A bit less than ten million Before Revenue Which is a lot for Europe standard But for Romania standard..I think The record before us like may be a hundred grand Maybe.
• 29:33
  Speaker 0: Okay, maybe two was the record before we started and then so obviously there's no idea of deep tech hardware.
• 29:44
  Speaker 0: There are only to harder startups in Romania.
• 29:46
  Speaker 0: I'm not considering drones.
• 29:49
  Speaker 0: You know drones is a different subject which suddenly everybody's building drones you know if i throw rock right now out Of our buildings probably hit on drone startup.
• 29:59
  Speaker 0: In my opinion, buying drones from China and putting a label on them is not to start up.
• 30:03
  Speaker 0: But that's my take on this And our proximity to the war zone made a lot of people too.
• 30:08
  Speaker 0: Let all build drones Not hardware.
• 30:11
  Speaker 0: So there are two hardware startups in Romania.
• 30:13
  Speaker 0: Fun enough we have the same leading investor Which which is nothing investing in hardware but just invested into only two hardware startup in Romania.
• 30:23
  Speaker 0: On investment side There's not much.
• 30:27
  Speaker 0: There are not many funds, incredibly risk adverse.
• 30:32
  Speaker 0: We were a very big exception to somebody invested but I think we're the only... Maybe i'm mistaken?
• 30:39
  Speaker 0: But I think that was our only startup in Romania which had a VC investment pre-revenue from Romania.
• 30:46
  Speaker 0: I don't know if there's ever a VC in Romania doing a Pre-Revening Investment into loss!
• 30:51
  Speaker 0: It might be mistaking on that and it is one of those few.
• 30:57
  Speaker 0: Then from a cultural standpoint, we were in an outsourcing country.
• 31:01
  Speaker 0: What does it mean?
• 31:03
  Speaker 0: It was until let's say two years ago...it was incredibly easy.
• 31:06
  Speaker 0: you go to engineering school or computer science school and then get the degree of outsourcing because they are very cheap countries for their outsourcing.
• 31:15
  Speaker 0: We have good people!
• 31:16
  Speaker 0: And we had lots of projects.
• 31:18
  Speaker 0: so I believe Cluj is the second biggest city in Romania that has the outsourcing capital of Romania.
• 31:25
  Speaker 0: it's a ridiculous family of sourcing companies we have here, which is declining now because of AI and what happened in all the economical situations.
• 31:34
  Speaker 0: But two years ago there were students who finished universities... And they requested salaries that were six times the average salary for Romania as starting salary.
• 31:49
  Speaker 0: That's not going anywhere but problem.
• 31:53
  Speaker 0: The fact that we're getting three X the average salary of Romania salaries on their first job, not destroyed completely in economy.
• 32:05
  Speaker 0: but when you have an option to get money from a young age what would be part?
• 32:15
  Speaker 0: culturally risk-inverse, not having investment.
• 32:19
  Speaker 0: Not have any kind of deep tech being incredibly good thing.
• 32:24
  Speaker 0: we're incredibly creative but We don't have an example how to transform creativity?
• 32:28
  Speaker 0: We don' t have business acumen.
• 32:33
  Speaker 0: I think the generation after me will be first one who actually has a shot at understanding business because until eighty nine when you come in your gym there was no way making this way of testing because we're making business.
• 32:44
  Speaker 0: For me and for a lot my colleagues, the reason why I don't want to say that we are good at this is but there's no real businesses becuase.
• 32:51
  Speaker 0: i spend six years in my life abroad.
• 32:54
  Speaker 0: I spent most of my adult life abroad.
• 32:56
  Speaker 0: so those are some of the reasons.
• 33:00
  Speaker 0: yeah plus alot failed policies on these alot of failed policies and alot lack of policies on them.
• 33:08
  Speaker 0: luckily its changing hate politics, but I'm implicated in Darfavalli or not.
• 33:15
  Speaker 0: Don't hate policy that they are necessary...I don't want to be part of politics But i am implicated and luckily had a very good relation with all the current former ministers of innovation which is now responsible also for this.
• 33:27
  Speaker 0: A very unstable political climate.
• 33:32
  Speaker 0: EU grants are huge funding source but in Romania EU funds are seen very badly.
• 33:39
  Speaker 0: I cannot fundamentally understand.
• 33:40
  Speaker 0: People believe they are corrupt, people believe that only some people win them?
• 33:46
  Speaker 0: No!
• 33:47
  Speaker 0: People who do the job win them.
• 33:50
  Speaker 0: but you're very bureaucratic and we hate bureaucracy.
• 33:53
  Speaker 0: so those would be some of things not no particular order.
• 33:57
  Speaker 0: sorry for the rent But there's just a few other things which make this in the end if... oh one more One more, apologies.
• 34:08
  Speaker 0: This is one of the biggest ones and it's still very good with fundraising at risk Unfortunately The most people who start startups because I wouldn't call them startups are just out of university or during University.
• 34:24
  Speaker 0: Reason is simple It appears in your life when you have no risks You can do whatever you want.
• 34:31
  Speaker 0: Then you get a family, turn thirty or forty.
• 34:34
  Speaker 0: You have obligations and who would change the comfortable job for building a startup?
• 34:41
  Speaker 0: But because we don't have safety nets... The first investor should be one of the famous free Fs.
• 34:46
  Speaker 0: Family friends are another force!
• 34:48
  Speaker 0: We know none of those.
• 34:49
  Speaker 0: Everybody is poor in this country but not everybody.
• 34:53
  Speaker 0: Because we do not have that free F to support us at multiple stages of life.
• 34:59
  Speaker 0: You know, I'm looking at my colleagues.
• 35:02
  Speaker 0: My colleague with families or children... ...I would not want to be the person in their family saying that they will quit a very good job and start a startup but have no clue if it'll work In other parts of the world.
• 35:14
  Speaker 0: people say go for it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 0: Nobody will say Go For It here!
• 35:18
  Speaker 0: My mom right now is asking me to sell this company And do like relax a bit.
• 35:24
  Speaker 0: So there's culture we're coming from.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: So, then I have to interpret from everything you've said now that it was very much a conscious decision... ...to build in Romania and even an effort on your end.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: To kind of build the community feels lacking right?
• 35:42
  Speaker 0: Yeah Okay Yes And we.
• 35:45
  Speaker 0: It wasn't best to build this in Romania.. ..and i'm so happy I did at that because We have access to amazing people!
• 35:57
  Speaker 0: public funding.
• 35:59
  Speaker 0: We were part of the first Romanians in EIC, but also a lot of announced eleven million euro grant which is an national grant.
• 36:05
  Speaker 0: it's EU money But National Grant and we hope to announce something even bigger soon.
• 36:09
  Speaker 0: that That's a secret.
• 36:13
  Speaker 0: So those are another advantage.
• 36:15
  Speaker 0: there are few other things.
• 36:17
  Speaker 0: if you're good at networking Networking is universal networking.
• 36:20
  Speaker 0: does all the world works end up?
• 36:22
  Speaker 0: unfortunately In Romania it's not well, in Eastern Europe I think we don't do a good job of understanding the power of networking.
• 36:29
  Speaker 0: I think Western Europe would be doing better jobs.
• 36:33
  Speaker 0: but if you are good at networking and can build a network You could do amazing things here because i think that It is.
• 36:42
  Speaker 0: give an example.
• 36:45
  Speaker 0: There is some research groups in universities, in Germany building various experiments or technologies for visually impaired people.
• 36:54
  Speaker 0: For more reason!
• 36:55
  Speaker 0: They're non-commercial.
• 36:56
  Speaker 0: they just want to do research and I remember a few years ago there was an discussion with the head of one of these research centers And they were so happy to tell me that this quarter... ...they had five blind people come test something they built.. ..and i was like... I have days with forty blinds And that's because of culturally bureaucracy and all of that.
• 37:18
  Speaker 0: While we do have other bureaucracies here, I think if you want to get a thousand blind people...I will get your thousand blinds here!
• 37:25
  Speaker 0: We have the network but know how to do it in Germany?
• 37:27
  Speaker 0: In Germany even though i would build on network ,i'll be able to do that.
• 37:30
  Speaker 0: It is from cultural standpoint.
• 37:31
  Speaker 0: so there are some clear advantages for doing this But also some very big disadvantages.
• 37:36
  Speaker 0: fund raising is one of biggest The biggest romanian start-up which is to near Romania Because, you know...you hear Romanian start.
• 37:45
  Speaker 0: You hear your iPad and other names.
• 37:47
  Speaker 0: They are not registering in Romania for five years at least.
• 37:50
  Speaker 0: they left Romania long ago.
• 37:52
  Speaker 0: Yes!
• 37:52
  Speaker 0: We have another decenter here but there is no Romanian company anymore.
• 37:56
  Speaker 0: And having investments from abroad In Romania, in a Romanian entity There aren't many Very very few India.
• 38:09
  Speaker 0: They're very, very few.
• 38:09
  Speaker 0: So that's also another thing fundraising.
• 38:12
  Speaker 0: it is hard and nobody wants to invest in a Romanian company.
• 38:17
  Speaker 0: And I understand why.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: yeah no i mean It's as I say its effect.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you know we really don't see that many.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: so We've had Another Romanian Company on here.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: just camera was part of this EIC kind Of Series we were doing and I can't remember
• 38:34
  Speaker 0: the name now but There are only two companies in YAC Accelerator, it's Doc Lumen and HyperBV which was called AMSIMCELL.
• 38:41
  Speaker 0: And now because of the YAC pre-accelerators very good program I mean really a lot of respect for that is our first edition.
• 38:48
  Speaker 0: i'm sure some things not perfect but they conceptual ideas great.
• 38:52
  Speaker 0: then the players later there.
• 38:53
  Speaker 0: three winners from Romania pressure this much more than half million or even less But their free from Romania.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: So, you have a clear understanding obviously of everybody that's working kind at your national level.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: I think this is going to lead me into the final question because i'm sure you're busy man and got.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: get back improving people lives.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: so...I am just gonna leave it as questions here in there.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: what are the effort on your end do want see company be doing five ten years from now when comes to improving the National Question?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Right, is it programs or universities encouraging students to get involved?
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Is helping investors find new Romanian entrepreneurs to invest in.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: What's kind of the role that you want to see Dot Lumen play at this national level?
• 39:48
  Speaker 0: There are three in order number one and most important one help as many Romanian people with disabilities.
• 39:58
  Speaker 0: That's number one, Barnum does number two I think that what we lacked the most is proofs, and we can.
• 40:09
  Speaker 0: And i think we already did a lot on it.
• 40:11
  Speaker 0: That woman did a LOT to prove that Romania could do it!
• 40:14
  Speaker 0: We have ten times more to prove than we can do.
• 40:16
  Speaker 0: It's very important because people don't want to do... There are alot of people who would do it but they're afraid since nobody did it.
• 40:28
  Speaker 0: probably its impossible.
• 40:29
  Speaker 0: We wanna prove this possible.
• 40:30
  Speaker 0: I think we proved a lot.
• 40:33
  Speaker 0: It's possible.
• 40:33
  Speaker 0: You want to be that inspiration, but yes you can do it here in Romania.
• 40:38
  Speaker 0: and number three is That we have to prove Romania to the world Such as the World can come support Romania.
• 40:44
  Speaker 0: so fundraising investment in Romanian all of those.
• 40:47
  Speaker 0: And thats another thing which We Have To Do.
• 40:50
  Speaker 0: Those are The Three Things As Many Romanians Possible Be An Inspiration For Everybody And Prove They Can Do It As Well.
• 40:57
  Speaker 0: Number Three Be an Inspiration for The World Such That they Invest In Romania.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I think... Very
• 41:03
  Speaker 0: simple.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: It's saying it is yeah but its clearly difficult But you've been around for six years now right?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Found in Tony and look at all the products that we have made.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: so i had no doubts.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: We had to use startups who will be happily looking forward To any of these secret announcements That you mentioned a few times.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: So don't forget about your old pal David when You got some announcement to make.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: We'll gladly release out to our audience.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: And thank-you very much Cornell.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: Its' been a pleasure chat
• 41:32
  Speaker 0: Pleasure to be here.
• 41:32
  Speaker 0: Thanks so much!
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Alright, talk soon.
• 41:35
  Speaker 0: Bye bye.