Latest / CRYPTO 101 / Ep. 693 Inside the Fetch.ai and Ocean Rift — Humayun Sheikh on AI, Decentralization, and the Future of ASI/Fetch.ai

Transcript

Ep. 693 Inside the Fetch.ai and Ocean Rift — Humayun Sheikh on AI, Decentralization, and the Future of ASI/Fetch.ai · CRYPTO 101

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Crypto101 podcast, presented by Gemini.
0:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Your bridge to the future of money.
0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode heavy hitting episode of the crypto 101 podcast high caliber action packed Brendan how the heck are you feeling today.
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited, man.
0:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm doing pretty good, too.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, at the time we're recording this, we're getting some nice price action, we're getting some good news.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot going on and maybe we got a familiar guest familiar face over here.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: One who we always appreciate having on.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So, can't get much better, Bryce.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, I agree.
0:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, this is a true honor and pleasure.
0:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Humane Shake, founder of Fetch AI.
0:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We are welcoming you back to the show.
0:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Had you on a few times in the past, but got some big updates and some big conversations to have today.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, welcome to the show, and how are you?
1:04
[SPEAKER_02]: always a pleasure as as you know right friend and it's always fun to have a chat with you guys.
1:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we have a lot to discuss as we all know so I'm really looking forward to it so that you guys can go ahead and ask whatever you like and let's let's get it moving.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, absolutely.
1:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's obviously for long time listeners know that we've, you know, we've been big fans of what you guys have been doing at Fetch AI and then the artificial super intelligence ASI, you know, operation that you guys have been running in partnership with several other, you know, AI meets crypto projects, but it seems like there's been a little bit of a
1:48
[SPEAKER_01]: potentially broken down.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell us the high level.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to read the tea leaves or get hooked on these random Twitter threads because everybody's got an opinion.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's hear from the horses mouth.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: As you know, we spoke about this.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We did a alliance and we did a token merger with three founding members, which was FHAI,
2:15
[SPEAKER_02]: and then we added another Alliance member which is Kudos.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were moving along and I think in June and I think let's just dig a little bit into the background.
2:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So why did we do that?
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We did it because we felt we need to build a tech stack.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The text stack includes the agentic AI which is what fetch brought into the mix.
2:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We had singularity who was working on more research stuff so that how do you make these models better?
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you bring more AI algorithmic models and how do you then
2:54
[SPEAKER_02]: bring them to the market using the agentic stuff so they were working on that.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They were also working on the technology for the next iteration of, let's say, a blockchain which is AI specific.
3:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what they were working on.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: we had Ocean who were working on the data side, data tools, which we felt were kind of really very nicely fitting into the stack.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we had Kudos who brought in the compute.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So decentralized compute platform where you can actually plug in compute and then you can use it and distribute it.
3:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was the component that was the text stack.
3:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And and
3:38
[SPEAKER_02]: was and actually still is pretty much at the cutting edge.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably one of the deepest tech stack that you'll find in our crypto space.
3:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason why we did it was to make it so coherent so that everybody can deploy a solution and don't have to worry about too many tokens.
3:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry half the worry about integrating too many technologies.
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You deploy and it works.
4:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was the premise.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we were doing.
4:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's how it started.
4:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And one year down the line we had
4:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Ocean announced, well, I mean, announced and I'll give you the detail of the announcement first and then we can dig into what actually happened.
4:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So they announced that they want to leave the alliance, which okay, I mean it's an alliance, that's great.
4:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we still have technologies together, you know, there's some components of their technology we use, we don't need to use it, but nobody is going to stop.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you build technology for people to use, I mean, there is some data technology which is not particularly that innovative, but we were using part of it.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And they decided to leave the alliance, which is fine, not a problem, your alliances are not to force people to doing anything.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They wanted to take their own route, which is absolutely fine, but let's just rewind a little bit.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: in June there was when we did the alliance there was this this this whole pool of community rule tokens which ocean had indicated that that's what they are ocean committed to providing this community rule tokens which they they previously had um
5:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Publicized everywhere.
5:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they've written papers about it that this is how these tokens are going to get distributed that we had a vision paper, which actually trend and Trend was a very critical part of announcing that we are going to have these tokens, which are going to be community reward tokens.
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to reward the community for building solutions.
5:43
[SPEAKER_02]: we want to build the ecosystem.
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We all have different methods and we have a fetch foundation has its own method but this was what was indicated and this is one of the reasons why we actually did the alliance with them was because they had this pool.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: They just minted 50% of their supply a year or so ago for community rewards and we wanted to bring that in because they
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason was that, yes, I mean, you can't just have data doing nothing, right?
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's no application unless you actually have applications.
6:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So, fitted in the stack well, and we wanted to build these solutions and for that, they would have rewarded, we were going to use the Community Award tokens to reward the projects.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can see, and we can talk about the technology and you can see what
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: all the products that are coming out of fetching singularity at the moment in Kudos itself as well.
6:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So those tokens were meant for community to world tokens.
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: What transpired is that on a 25th or June or something, these guys just withdrew a huge chunk out of those tokens, right?
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So there was like 289 million
7:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They were meant for conversion into FET for FET and ASI Alliance community and ocean decided and this is not how it was meant to be because ocean said we're going to enable people to build these
7:21
[SPEAKER_02]: projects which are going to use ocean technology, we're going to reward these people with those tokens and suddenly all these tokens get converted into FET and then suddenly we felt there was some hack and we went and investigated but turns out that this is ocean foundation.
7:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Now they call it not foundation but now they call it ocean.
7:44
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... dow ocean expedition or whatever they want to call it all all the represent gate ocean what you want ocean gate like water gate or uh... deflate yeah so they they just did that and then and then we went and we did some legal stuff
8:04
[SPEAKER_02]: held back, but then they announced that they're leaving, which, as I said, no problem, but you know, you can't just convert all the tokens, convert it into FET and then dump it on the community.
8:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not right.
8:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's meant for community tokens.
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You've declared this going to be done over 10 years.
8:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is like 10 years plus 10 years was the half life.
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're looking at tokens, which were meant to be distributed over 10, 20 years.
8:31
[SPEAKER_02]: for people building the projects.
8:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't seen a project from them and suddenly all the tokens disappear and then they started selling them.
8:39
[SPEAKER_02]: So again I can't talk too much about the legal stuff because it's still ongoing but I mean we took some legal actions, they took some legal actions,
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: There was still a pool of 100 million FET, which is still, which we didn't top up the bridge with and that still sits there and what I am and the alliance is arguing is, hey, I mean these, this should not be given for people to be converted because you already left the alliance and you dumped the
9:09
[SPEAKER_02]: tokens on the people here.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of what the sequence of events transpires to be.
9:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, they now claim ocean dow is some other entity, which is what you would read in their blog post.
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It might be another entity, but who cares?
9:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you have made representations under foundation saying all these tokens belong to the community.
9:40
[SPEAKER_02]: FET tokens.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to give it to the community, but one day I wake up and I take all those 300 million tokens and I go and sell them for my own purposes, my own purposes.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we call it rug pull right.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I do it, it's called a rug pull.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I'm saying.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you guys tried to do a rug pull.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Now if you did it on ocean, that's 51% of your supply.
10:02
[SPEAKER_02]: You would have really killed everybody.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like,
10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we affectionately, we alliance and we have singularity part of it, coolness part of it, we're still going.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, it's going to damage the token price.
10:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, did damage the token price, all the negativity, then they started creating all the false news that they started spreading.
10:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what they're doing is like, oh, well, look, look at, look at, oh, you did X, Y, and Z wrong, but hang on a minute.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: We did X, Y, and Z wrong.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing happened, but you dumped the token in the market.
10:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And now you're saying, let's not look at that.
10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's look at some hypothetical problem, which we have just come up with.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what's going on right now.
10:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think I'll pause here for any questions.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I mean, yeah, I'm sorry to to you into the community and to everybody involved.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It just sounds like a Something not fun to be involved with and it's really a bummer.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes you away from You know doing what you really passion about which is you know artificial intelligence and making these applications that are gonna make the world a better place and easier to interface with and so on and so forth But it's it's part of the you know it's it's it's the thing
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, right.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's part of reality now.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not funny because I mean, of course, over the last month or so, I've taken personal time to actually try and fix this problem.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, other other members of the the Alliance are also trying to do that.
11:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But the issue is that because I've taken the stance where I'm saying no, I'm not letting this go because that's not right for the community then obviously you get personal attacks on you so that's kind of what has been happening and trying to come through that on the other side, but you know how crypto is where.
11:52
[SPEAKER_02]: everybody can have an opinion, right?
11:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's better than anybody else.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess the first question that pops into my mind, just naturally from hearing this is how did they have the ability to make that transaction?
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: How did they have the private keys to these funds that should have been locked up?
12:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it seems like there was an element of
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously trust that if it wasn't ocean, it could have been fetch or if it wasn't fetch, it could have been kudos or AGIX, who could have done this, but you know, all of crypto is about like not trusting, but verifying and having these multi-sigs and having layers of security and stuff, like what was the setup that allowed them to take?
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that takes one.
12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the whole point of misrepresentation.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The whole point of misrepresentation is you say, here is a ocean dull, right?
12:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have the keys.
12:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have the community tokens.
12:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We never had the community tokens in the same way.
12:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We put everything over the last five years.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We put it into community.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We let the foundation distributed to the community.
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have foundation tokens.
13:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We call them foundation tokens, which is if foundation did something, then we are responsible for that.
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So somebody can come and question us.
13:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We have been question many times now.
13:12
[SPEAKER_02]: But most of our community of war tokens have already been distributed and there was sitting in a lot of the other pools where we have a whole mechanism of the chain, so you can actually submit your proposal with the validators, validators can approve it, then you will get distributed, so there is a whole reward pool mechanism which works on voting.
13:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Ocean on the other hand,
13:35
[SPEAKER_02]: represented that there is an ocean dowel, and this ocean dowel is not in their control, right?
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So we asked them, they gave us some keys and said, you know, these are the community members, and we did keep asking them guys.
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: So who are these community members?
13:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what is the mechanism of doing this?
13:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's like, you know, it's written here, it's written there.
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We read it, and sometimes you kind of have to move on with trust in the sense that the representation,
14:04
[SPEAKER_02]: it's it's controlled as a dow then okay we may move on from that but turns out that it wasn't actually I mean there was no dow like behavior unfortunately and and the whole point was that the conversion of these tokens was meant to be done over time and that's why some of the tokens were held back so that we didn't top everything up.
14:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the whole point of the whole problem is that the representations that were made were incorrect.
14:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, not to, again, I just wanted this to.
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I would go as far as, I'm not a legal person, but I would say, if you made a misrepresentation about that many tokens, about that much money, I would be boring into fraud.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's exactly what I was going to say.
14:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you were defrauded in a sense, but I'm not legal.
15:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not my tokens.
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not fighting for myself.
15:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fighting for the project and the community.
15:07
[SPEAKER_02]: These tokens belong to the Alliance community.
15:11
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't belong to...
15:12
[SPEAKER_02]: fetch founders, the two people who set it up and running it, it wasn't for them to just decide to take it and go and cash them and put the money in their pockets, or I don't know what we did with them, but I can't prove anything either way.
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: it's going to be a landmark case.
15:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because I believe in correct me if I'm wrong and I know I don't want to get too much into like stuff that you're not allowed to talk about or whatever, but I think it was a case that was filed in the Southern District of New York and there's probably never been a similar case like this in all of financial or whatever law.
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe they're getting them again.
15:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there like is this going to be truly a landmark case?
15:50
[SPEAKER_02]: it will it will go through that its process of course is a long process but I mean I guess other other cases have happened but nothing like this it's just slightly different in the sense that it's not well I mean it's not it's not it is still misrepresentation but it's done as a
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: As much as I'm funding it, I am not in control of it because there's a lot of people who lost a lot of money here.
16:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, you have to be careful.
16:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a security.
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a utility token.
16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have to be aware of those things.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I don't want to...
16:39
[SPEAKER_02]: go too much into what's going to happen legally, but because I can't, but you could see that if somebody and and and they have the audacity to stand there and start blaming me for things or lions for things and saying lions did something wrong.
16:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely not.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean we we actually
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We were getting along quite well in the sense, not with ocean, perhaps, but with the rest of it, we were building the stack and you've seen the progress which is coming through.
17:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And suddenly, we are very comfortable that very soon, as I will explain to you, our applications are getting more and more traction.
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: There's more and more people signing up, and we're looking at that earn-in-burn kicking in very soon, and it's already kicking in.
17:30
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that was going well and then they decided, I have no idea, I mean they forced some some kind of spite the alliance, I don't know, but they just took it.
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's just pure, they wanted the money and they took it.
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: They got the liquidity and they just took it.
17:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not their tokens to take.
17:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, it's interesting.
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Bryce said, it's going to be landmark and it's complicated and
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot more questions will continue to be answered.
17:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's time goes on, but the final question on this topic, what would your perfect resolution look like?
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Would it be something where holders get compensated for what's happened or is it something else?
18:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's just be logical here, right?
18:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be logical.
18:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Logical thing is, ocean wanted to leave the alliance.
18:22
[SPEAKER_02]: not a big deal, right, fine, leave the alliance.
18:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not happy with enough decentralization, having said that where the ones who do the voting, where the ones who do kind of their own decisions and don't even ask the community,
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But hey, you want to be more decentralized.
18:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So there he thoughts is we have to be very much more decentralized.
18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want the doubt to be run properly.
18:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We can make our own decisions, you know, unilateral decisions, but that's called decentralize it.
18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, fine.
18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,
18:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like you go and do all those decisions, right.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the point.
19:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to be part of the ASI community.
19:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to be part of the ASI Lions.
19:09
[SPEAKER_02]: ASI Alliance's token is FET.
19:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you convert your own ocean token into FET token?
19:17
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were planning to leave, because it comes out that they were planning to leave, because if you read the blog post, they kind of refer to the facts that they were not happy and they were going to leave.
19:29
[SPEAKER_02]: If you were planning to leave and if you was that unhappy with the alliance, why did you then convert all your ocean tokens?
19:38
[SPEAKER_02]: into FIT tokens, which didn't, by the way, belong to them.
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It belonged to their community.
19:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It belonged to the people who were going to build.
19:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Did, do you have any voting we can see now?
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have any evidence that the community actually wanted to do that?
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are these tokens?
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, apparently now, these tokens belong to a Cayman,
20:03
[SPEAKER_02]: company of which Bruce Paul is the only director called Ocean's Expedition and now they've openly said that and they're saying oh it's owned by a trust well okay who's the beneficiary of the trust is it the community is it the people but but but again it's it's just I mean this is typical
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't want to say it, but it's a typical behavior of people who want to take or de-frought other people because you, if you look at the tokens flow, they converted it, they sent it to 30 or 40 other wallets from each wallet, they've been going to mixes and into options and into exchanges and into, so I mean it's, and we did quite a lot of work trying to
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're going to buy now, as you're going to GSR, you're going to, you know, others, you're taking out options, you're selling them.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they committed, they actually admitted that they sold like $70 million worth of FET already.
21:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm sure after that admission, they've done even more.
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But the point is, they're not your tokens.
21:16
[SPEAKER_02]: They are your communities tokens.
21:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But then they're saying ocean dowel is owned by ocean expedition.
21:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there's no communities that they decide to take the tokens.
21:27
[SPEAKER_01]: A classic case of just...
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They thought they took what was theirs, but it clearly wasn't theirs, I guess, like, it's just... Again, if it was theirs, then prove it.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you wrote papers after papers, after papers telling the community that these are community reward tokens, and they will be distributed to the community over 20 years, or 10 years, or whatever.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have plenty of materials, which they say that.
21:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So, how come you just suddenly took it?
21:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is when you didn't want to be part of the alliance and yet you converted it into the alliance token.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
22:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to be following along with the case very, very closely.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, we'll have you back on for some checkpoints over the years.
22:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that kind of what we're here?
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but let's talk about some of the good stuff.
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the traction of the apps.
22:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about just the future of ASI and all the good work that you and Dr. Ben Gertsel over at AGIX and the folks at Cudos.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, reset, let's reset.
22:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody take a big deep breath.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that was a lot.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Our listeners are probably like,
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this is exactly what I expected to listen to today because it's very unlike most of our podcasts.
22:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So going to take a quick reset, we just want to take a look at the bright future that you're still building.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so so walk us through some of that.
22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, that's my favorite topic.
22:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
22:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm, I'm also a fed up of this rubbish.
22:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So his, you know, let's start from the top, right?
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So we, we said we're going to build this agentic framework.
22:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We did and we are and we're building it and we're improving it.
23:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So if any of you guys have not tried it, I would highly recommend you guys try it and you guys try S I one dot AI and go and
23:13
[SPEAKER_02]: turn on different things and try them and see how we have actually built the whole infrastructure where you can actually communicate with agents directly.
23:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You can actually speak to them.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have your own agent within a minute just by signing up to SI1, which you can train, which you can personalize.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You can attach your calendar.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You can do bookings for you with other people.
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
23:38
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, time we can ask our agents to do it, they can go and do it, they can send emails, they can do all of that.
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It, you know, it might sound simple, but it's not that simple.
23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason, let me explain, have you guys built any agents yet?
23:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you have, then are you a coder, because coders might have done, but what an individual person who doesn't know how to code too much,
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: and how long does it take to build you an agent?
24:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean with the SI1 you go in and you click a few buttons, three buttons and you can actually have your own agent, right?
24:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Out of the box.
24:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You can ask this agent to do things for you.
24:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Other people can ask questions for you.
24:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I released one of my agents for people to chat with and communicate with.
24:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It had its own personality, it had its own information and knowledge base and you could ask them.
24:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of that is now kind of going in and people are signing up, we're getting, you know, 10, 15,000 users coming in every day in terms of actually using ASI1, which is
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: which does everything which other LLMs do, but more in terms of the agentic stuff.
24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can actually ask for agents, you can actually query them.
24:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So the whole infrastructure where agents become discoverable, it doesn't matter where you build them, but they become discoverable to a large language model.
25:00
[SPEAKER_02]: is the infrastructure which we have now.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not in the future.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
25:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not talking about it.
25:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually deployed.
25:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's live.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: People can actually sign up for it.
25:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We have like 2.7 2.8 million agents.
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, give or take are not all of them are doing exactly what they should be doing.
25:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of them are kind of built just for testing.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But majority of them have a purpose and
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: go and ask your LLM to find your an agent, which does something, and you'll find one, and you can ask it to do something, and it will do it.
25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You can actually communicate to it.
25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But to get to that point, and you will see that when you use the SI1 platform, there is a whole planning, reinforcement learning, neurosymbolic learning, neurosymbolic modeling in terms of getting you deterministic
25:55
[SPEAKER_02]: combine it with the generative AI outcomes and then doing all sorts of integrations with the legacy systems eight.
26:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So huge engineering and research task, which we have now kind of in a place where we actually have launched the product.
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the top layer.
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you have some question, Brendan.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, I was just, I mean, it seems like AI is trying to go in all these different ways, right?
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a bunch of different people, all of a bunch of different opinions about like, how we can use AI and what should be focused and what's of the highest priority.
26:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the cool thing about the ASI or, you know, the artificial super-intelligence alliance is that you all get to work on a couple of these different areas, but from your point of view, what areas are you the most interested in?
26:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess what areas of artificial intelligence do you think should take priority over kind of the rest?
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: If any.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, the pinpointing one or two is probably quite difficult, but let me just give you my train of all.
27:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So we had web, when web came,
27:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It was everything needed to be changed into web first.
27:12
[SPEAKER_02]: What it meant was everybody needed a website.
27:16
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where we started, right?
27:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We were not mature enough.
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: The technology wasn't mature enough.
27:21
[SPEAKER_02]: All it was was a catalog that was a website.
27:25
[SPEAKER_02]: from there we evolved into e-commerce systems, from there we evolved into very, very complex infrastructures which we're running on web, right?
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's used that as your paradigm and then translate that into AI first.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: This was web first, now we have AI first.
27:44
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the difference, let's, let's, I mean, I, for me, you'll always hear some more commercialization kind of methodology because I feel, you know, yes, we need to create this AGI, but ultimately it will evolve as more commercialization happens, it's not going to evolve in a vacuum.
28:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm taking that commercial, I'll give you my commercialization slash evolution of commercialization approach first and then we can dig deeper into what is needed.
28:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So web first always needed websites.
28:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're going into AI.
28:22
[SPEAKER_02]: AI needs multiple components just like web did and the web.
28:29
[SPEAKER_02]: paradigm relied on the application layer, which was a website, which then evolved into e-commerce and it kind of involved into more complex technologies.
28:40
[SPEAKER_02]: In AI first, your application layer is going to be agentic.
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have an agent, you have multiple agents.
28:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And if I make the simple comparison with websites, what it is, is websites were static.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: They were informational.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Agents are more cognitively aware.
28:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Their autonomous can be autonomous.
29:00
[SPEAKER_02]: They can do things, they can have intelligence, you can make them, you can make them do active actions.
29:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of those things which we're missing in web with AI comes this layer which can help you do that.
29:16
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we need for that layer?
29:17
[SPEAKER_02]: If you dig a little bit deeper, I mean we are proponents of a combination of expert models.
29:26
[SPEAKER_02]: we don't feel, I don't feel, we're going to have one huge big model just about doing everything.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that kind of is also starting to come through in other people's opinions, is that we will have one expert model for, for let's say, medical, brains, sort of analysis or something.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and then you'll have one physics model focusing on quantum physics, for example.
29:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So these are all expert models which people are going to build and they're going to
29:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And then underneath that, you have this one large language model, which can actually understand the intent and call these expert models.
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's in the middle between those two is is the infrastructure which enables you to bring those models when you need them.
30:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the agentic web.
30:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you think, again, it could be very, very complex model, or it could be very simple model, just dealing with an API.
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also an agent, or dealing with a complex model, which does brain analytics or quantum physics and analytics, can also be represented by an agent.
30:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you build this infrastructure, where this large model, who is context-aware, who is,
30:47
[SPEAKER_02]: able to translate your intent to calling the right models, orchestrating the outcomes of different models, to deliver something that you're asking.
31:00
[SPEAKER_02]: That infrastructure is what fetch has what
31:13
[SPEAKER_02]: solution, and I'll explain how.
31:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So all those interactions and all those combinations of actions, these actions could be knowledge-based, these actions could be legacy system-based, these could be physical, these could be just virtual actions.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all actually,
31:31
[SPEAKER_02]: form part of this reinforcement learning models.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can actually start making these reinforcement learning models, which understand much better your intent and what the actions are required.
31:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's combined with all this agentic stuff, combined with the reinforcement models, combined with the generative AI models.
31:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's stack.
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it needs to live on compute, right?
31:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So right underneath, you have to have quite a lot of compute, which is why we're seeing Nvidia's valuations going crazy.
32:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Because all of this AI first infrastructure,
32:12
[SPEAKER_02]: One has to be enabled.
32:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It has to live somewhere.
32:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And second, it will live and compute on a compute kind of infrastructure.
32:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the whole stack for you.
32:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So saying which one is more important?
32:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need all of them effectively.
32:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
32:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Just I started interrupt.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the like you said like the the compute that in video is providing they seem like they've got a stranglehold on the market.
32:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a five trillion dollar five trillion or something like that market cap.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, that fluctuates day to day by a trillion dollars or something, which is just insane to think about like nothing.
32:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if you look back a few years ago, I mean, I don't know, 10 years ago.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there were any companies that were over $2 trillion, so the fact now that we have several, and this kind of is where, you know, I kind of have a question around like some of these big dogs, like meta, Google, X AI, open AI wants to go public now, which God, we could talk about that, you could talk about that, how it started as a non-profit.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been other lawsuit between Sam Altman and Elon Musk that'll get broadcast over every air wave.
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But like how, you know, kind of to keep things relevant here, how do you and the ASI and maybe even generally other crypto startups or AI startups?
33:39
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they compete with the big dogs?
33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: When it seems like they've just got economies of scale and so much cat backs and just they could just train these things at a quicker rate.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you just think about competing?
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: in that arena.
33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, that was one of the reasons why we forso that problem.
33:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we combine.
33:59
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we built the alliance, right?
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we needed to compete.
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And and you you you're absolutely right.
34:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not easy the way you
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: these these these valuations are I mean crypto crypto actually is very unfortunate we were not we're still not actually appreciating what what is here right now what we have here because really if you look at anything in comparison to normal companies the valuations are insane I mean you can see them already but but to compete not to compete but to actually
34:38
[SPEAKER_02]: comparative to these big entities, these massive valuation entities, which have a capital, they don't even know how much they have and what to do with it.
34:52
[SPEAKER_02]: We've actually done a pretty decent job of building this whole stack.
34:56
[SPEAKER_02]: At the moment, if you and I was saying to you, there are
35:02
[SPEAKER_02]: there are agentic systems which exist, but there's nothing here where you can say, oh yes, you know, there's such an agentic system I went in and I created an agent and my friend can speak to my agent, right?
35:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't.
35:16
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing here.
35:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, matter could have done it because matter is in
35:20
[SPEAKER_02]: in the space of networking and it's in the space of social connections.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't got it.
35:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's very much we want our model to sit where we sit and we'll make it better and better and you guys can come and talk to it.
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But
35:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But luckily, what we're saying is that's one model, that's one way of doing things.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And where the opportunity comes is where you don't need that much capital and you just need more innovative thinking commercially and actually technologically is to build a parallel solution, not even fully parallel because we still use large language model, but to create some utility.
36:05
[SPEAKER_02]: If people can use something very quickly, which is what openly I did really well, right?
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: People started using it.
36:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, others have failed to do that.
36:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Google Google has probably got the most amount of possible utility that could come out.
36:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're kind of a little bit slow and they do things in a different way.
36:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're going to see that application layer mature very, very quickly.
36:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But infrastructure, it's like, and again, we had the web.
36:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But before the web came the telco boom, right?
36:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the telco boom, without the infrastructure spend on connectivity on web,
36:52
[SPEAKER_02]: paradigm.
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't know they overindexed on it like they they invest in way too much in, uh, in broadband and all this kind of stuff as the at the peak of the bubble and then all of that network connectivity was all stale.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody was using it and then the market crashed, right?
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: but not to say that it wasn't useful.
37:12
[SPEAKER_02]: We are using it now, the streaming area.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we are.
37:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Applications came along.
37:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is going to exactly pan out the same way, right?
37:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
37:21
[SPEAKER_02]: We're creating over-capacity of everything and then suddenly the applications will come along.
37:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm hoping this time we've learned from it and the applications will come along quicker so that we don't mis kind of represent the compute that is required.
37:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's it's very,
37:39
[SPEAKER_02]: broadband, right?
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: What happened with the telco infrastructure?
37:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody was going out, spending money, companies were getting value, the crazy valuations, and all they were doing were building the infrastructure, and then everybody kind of realized, once the infrastructure is done,
37:56
[SPEAKER_02]: you need applications and if they don't exist and you have got nothing, right?
38:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of where we are in this phase on the AI phase as well, but slightly different, slightly different could be that we've learned from our mistakes and we're going to build the applications.
38:13
[SPEAKER_02]: quicker.
38:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's not happening right now because we're still just generating videos and there is, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
38:20
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a huge demand.
38:22
[SPEAKER_02]: People take a lot of photos, people do a lot of tick-talking.
38:26
[SPEAKER_02]: There is an application.
38:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I have no judgment on it if it's good or bad, but but there is application.
38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's only the beginning because ultimately every organization, every enterprise is going to have to convert this into a AI first model, which will be an agentic kind of model.
38:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Because without it, you have to completely dispose off your legacy system and nobody's going to do that.
38:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it's going to be totally crazy.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It is going to be totally crazy.
39:02
[SPEAKER_00]: it's always a little bit frustrating to me when people say, oh, you know, this is just like the dot com bubble when I think it's really different from that in nature and you look at a lot of artificial intelligence and AI and it's a lot of these companies and a lot of like the use cases like there is a real use case and there's a lot of money that's being made from it already and it's only going to get better whereas with the dot com bubble wasn't quite that and.
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you say that.
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You say that.
39:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, there is a slight divergence in what I'm thinking, the sense that you, you're right.
39:35
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of utility and web also had a lot of utility, but then you start coming up with this somewhere just non-solution solutions to problems which don't exist.
39:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's happening here too.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I guess you're right.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good point.
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wonder if, for instance, when Netflix was starting and they did all of their stream, they didn't start with streaming, they just started with DVDs.
39:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But then there was all this capacity for the internet and they were like, oh, we could start this, you know, engineer and figure out a way to like stream IP, you know, over IP and all that kind of stuff.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But they maybe wouldn't have thought about that if that extra capacity was never built in the first place.
40:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: it's it's just a boom and bust cycle I guess it's like as as a tale is all this time but I am I am curious about the energy capacity as well or the component here because you know I hear a lot of people talk like AI like you know obviously we're scared of the AI overlords and Elon's robots but I think a really real actual fear is like well this just drive up the cost of energy everywhere which it and it's already soaring
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I don't know, we're going to have to do nuclear, but everybody says nuclear is, you know, it's obviously, you know, there's dangers and stuff and it's just tough to get that spun up.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: There's turbines that take years and years and years to build and like what's the actual physical constraints that you're looking at and how do you kind of alleviate maybe some of the the layman fears of like more AI means more energy consumption means less energy for me to heat my house or whatever.
41:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I'm more optimistic about it because I feel this is obviously a pattern, this is a growth pattern, which is happening.
41:22
[SPEAKER_02]: If you look at the data centers that are being built in different parts of the world now, the bigger, you know, mega data centers, mega AI centers, they are a lot more efficient.
41:35
[SPEAKER_02]: they need a lot less power.
41:38
[SPEAKER_02]: They're being built with all of that in mind.
41:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's multiple points you've raised.
41:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's look at like all these AI set does that are going up.
41:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So the consumption is going to be becoming more and more efficient.
41:52
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not used to it.
41:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We're now deploying these solutions.
41:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was watching something on Bloomberg the other day.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were showcasing how
42:00
[SPEAKER_02]: efficient these AI centers are going to be.
42:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to improve a lot of this efficiency.
42:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We remember from our old D-Mine days when one of the things we did there was AI actually improved the efficiency of the data centers of Google.
42:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So by 20, 25%, so we're going to use use actually
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: actually use AI to improve the efficiency of these centers which we're building.
42:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's going to happen as just a natural process.
42:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You have got nuclear power which is going to become more and more available.
42:41
[SPEAKER_02]: There is nano-nuclear plants coming as
42:45
[SPEAKER_02]: containerized nuclear plants coming, which could be put in kind of remote places where the risk of radiations is low on any humans or you know, onations.
42:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's also happening.
43:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to come to this consumption in two minutes.
43:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take some time.
43:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I mean, this phase is going to ease off slightly in the sense that,
43:12
[SPEAKER_02]: let's go past these just photo and video generations and see what after that.
43:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think at the moment we see much more after that.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We quite, you know, we kind of stuck in that, can I generate a TikTok video and can I get a million views?
43:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's things like parents talking to policemen going around, there's children acting, adults acting, looking like children going around, or all of that is fun, but ultimately we're going to get bored of it, right?
43:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's nothing real about it.
43:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to start generating movies for,
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: self-generated, you know, based around you and all of that will happen and then, you know.
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So that consumption is there, but it's not huge consumption.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That consumption will be, we can cope with it without all these data centers.
44:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But these data, these AI centers are going to then be available just like we said broadband and that's when streaming started.
44:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to start seeing applications which are going to use it.
44:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see the Michael Burry short on AI?
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see any information about that?
44:27
[SPEAKER_00]: He came out and he's like, I want to short AI.
44:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think his two go-to's were Nvidia and Palantir.
44:34
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
44:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Palantir founder was like, all, he was pretty upset off.
44:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, I remember they were like, he's like, I'm not getting defensive.
44:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting offensive.
44:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he wants to short company with the best AI and the best, you know,
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: finance is that he just can't understand then go for it.
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's a great question, Brandon.
44:55
[SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts on that human?
44:57
[SPEAKER_02]: My thoughts are that you're always going to have, I mean, five trillion, if you're asking me personally, I think is slightly insane.
45:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But okay, still, three trillion could be possible, right?
45:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If other companies are too trillion and you can see, you know, so having a short on it, to me, it doesn't seem that illogical.
45:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, short doesn't mean it has to go down to zero.
45:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not forever.
45:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, and it could mean that the five trillion becomes three trillion or four trillion.
45:32
[SPEAKER_02]: That's still a short which pays off.
45:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So the point is not that.
45:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually don't fully agree with Michael Barry's kind of approach.
45:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I'd probably be more pro, palentere and video.
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do feel there is this cyclical
45:53
[SPEAKER_02]: false economy being generated.
45:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So you take, you take a product which actually is very crypto-like to be fair.
46:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you want to do a crypto comparison.
46:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have this chip which is your
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: utility token.
46:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You take that utility token and you say to somebody, hey, I'm going to give you this utility token and you put it on your, you then become a company which I made an investment in, but then you put an order for that utility token as well.
46:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a very circular.
46:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very circular kind of scheme whereby your sales actually you creating your sales and then you're reporting those sales and then you're issuing new shares which then you're using to create more sales and these sales
46:42
[SPEAKER_02]: are in the future they're not today these cells are in the future so you could actually run it's like a runaway train effectively which is just kind of it's kind of creating its own steam and just running away with it and I think that's to me that is slightly dangerous and I think that is where I think probably there is comments are coming from as well that's why he's looking
47:11
[SPEAKER_01]: look, you know, while we have it, I just want to, you know, kind of as a wrap-up question, what do we have to look forward to with ASI and sort of over the course of the next, you know, six to 12 months, what's in the pipeline and what are some things that you're really excited about?
47:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm really excited about is creating a product which people actually use and I think we are at the cusp of it.
47:36
[SPEAKER_02]: We are actually building it and we are actually getting uptake.
47:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We are actually taking we're getting synapses from people not just crypto people because our product is not crypto based alone.
47:49
[SPEAKER_02]: where we are open.
47:51
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a normal product for anybody and everybody.
47:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Crypto is an underlying technology which helps with payments which helps with decentralization in the sense that it's open.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like saying we have the icon of the new agentic web.
48:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have that.
48:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We have the Google of this agentic web in the sense of we can do search and discovery of agentic systems.
48:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We can do search and discovery of AIs.
48:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We can actually connect them and we can actually monetize them.
48:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So to me that
48:25
[SPEAKER_02]: over the next 12 months is going to be the most exciting things.
48:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there is research going on, of course, there is research going on, but really the research makes any difference when you actually start seeing it do something and it generates something.
48:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we talked about in the past, we talked about
48:46
[SPEAKER_02]: neurosymbolic AI combining that with generative AI and trying to make it deterministic responses which it agents are doing.
48:55
[SPEAKER_02]: We've now kind of implemented all of that.
48:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually in working.
49:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually delivering an outcome.
49:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you haven't used it, I would highly recommend that you use
49:05
[SPEAKER_02]: the ASI one platform, try and work out the personalization part, see how many responses you actually prefer as compared to anything else and you can actually find agents and you can actually speak to agents and you can do some things which you can't do anywhere else.
49:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, you can you can go and ask it to generate five different, I mean, our favorite thing is to generate images, right?
49:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So five different, using five different models, which are represented by five different agents, right?
49:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll generate you five different images from different models.
49:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's as simple as writing a prompt.
49:44
[SPEAKER_02]: and you're speaking to agent.
49:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's very exciting.
49:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the other technologies exciting technologies which are coming out of the alliance itself.
49:52
[SPEAKER_02]: This was more fetched, but is ASI chain which has got a huge research and technology which is a lot faster than the chains which is built for AI.
50:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually built for AI.
50:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It has a shouting mechanism where you
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: activities, you can actually create a compute chart, you can compute, you create an, you know, a expert model chart, you can actually take that and actually make it more usable blockchain, which has a purpose in AI.
50:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think AI is going to be one of the most,
50:37
[SPEAKER_02]: prolific technologies which actually requires blockchain at some point.
50:40
[SPEAKER_02]: That's quite that's quite saying something, right?
50:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Where everybody's going with these centralized huge capital spends in one entity.
50:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I see that these shards can actually enable us and this new way of thinking.
50:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the chain is not ready yet, but it will be next year.
50:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm
50:59
[SPEAKER_02]: will release testnet and you'll be able to see how fast it is, be able to see what it can do for you to combine that with the agent existing that we got and we're getting all this uptake on the compute that we have the compute platform.
51:15
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that combined is
51:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really excited about it because that's what we wanted to build and we actually have it within a year, right?
51:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We put it all together.
51:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It uses all these things and the chain is coming out, the Atlantic systems are already out, the computers getting deployed, we have millions of hours of compute being used on the platform.
51:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm actually quite excited, you know, cutting out all that noise that happened, you know, the whole stack is really, really working well and I'm really excited about it.
51:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
51:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, look, we greatly appreciate your time joining us getting our community up to speed on what's going on.
51:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, we wish you all the best and the community all the best.
51:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And we hope to have you back on again here with more exciting developments.
52:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, whatever once we're giving up, we're not giving up.
52:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This is this is a small hiccup.
52:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to recover from it.
52:10
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be back to where we should be.
52:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I challenge anybody and everybody to come and have a look at the technology and say, anybody has a better technology.
52:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have it and we have been creating the utility.
52:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And as we get into this phase of adoption, the whole game will change because our adoption is not cryptocurrency alone.
52:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Our adoption is worldwide for anybody.
52:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So, we're not just a crypto project, we are outside of crypto project.
52:40
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the scale is much bigger.
52:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
52:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he might shake founder of Fetch AI.
52:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
52:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody at home listening.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We hope you enjoyed and come back same time.
52:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Same place next week.
52:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have some more great guests for you.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Take care.