Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'The Keepers' mystery: Who killed Sister Cathy Cesnick?

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'The Keepers' mystery: Who killed Sister Cathy Cesnick? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. She was found frozen, mutilated,
0:21
Speaker 1: her face covered in maggots. She a beloved teacher, a nun.
0:34
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm talking about Kathy, says NIC's sister Cathy.
0:40
Speaker 1: To this day, her murder unsolved, questions echoing did the
0:49
Speaker 1: Catholic Church cover up this horrific crime on a beautiful
0:55
Speaker 1: young nun? But more, who murdered sister Kathy? I'm Nancy Grace.
1:05
Speaker 1: This is crime Stories and I want answers. Sister Kathy
1:12
Speaker 1: was reported missing when she did not return home to
1:15
Speaker 1: her apartment one evening, the apartment she shared with another nun.
1:20
Speaker 1: She had gone out to buy a gift, as I recall,
1:24
Speaker 1: a wedding gift her sister was getting married. It was
1:28
Speaker 1: Christmas time, everybody was shopping. It was leading up to
1:31
Speaker 1: Christmas anyways, towards the end of November, and it was busy.
1:36
Speaker 1: She went to a local shopping center. And the thing
1:40
Speaker 1: that I know for sure is she went to one
1:42
Speaker 1: of her favorite bakeries. And I believe she made it
1:48
Speaker 1: to the bakery and came out of the bakery and
1:52
Speaker 1: got in her car because the fresh buns were still
1:58
Speaker 1: sitting on the seat. The passenger seat upfront in her
2:02
Speaker 1: car when her car was finally located. Kathy Saysnick's sister,
2:08
Speaker 1: Katherine Saysnick was beautiful, popular, a twenty six year old
2:14
Speaker 1: young nun who had taught at an all girls Catholic
2:18
Speaker 1: school in Baltimore, last seen by her roommate, another young nun,
2:24
Speaker 1: when she took off that evening after she got home.
2:27
Speaker 1: November seventh, Friday Night now Friday night. As I recall
2:31
Speaker 1: with me Jimma Hoskins on the story Shane Waters, private
2:36
Speaker 1: investigator and podcaster, Karen Stark, renowned at New York psychologist
2:40
Speaker 1: and Crime Stories investigative reporter John Limley to Jimma Hoskins,
2:45
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you with us as we
2:47
Speaker 1: try to put the pieces together of this puzzle. I'm
2:51
Speaker 1: trying not to think of sister Kathy being found in
2:53
Speaker 1: that field, her body frozen and mutilated and her face
2:57
Speaker 1: covered in maggots. I'm trying to focus on the night
3:00
Speaker 1: she goes missing. There was a bi monthly ritual where
3:04
Speaker 1: both the girls, both the ladies would get their checks
3:06
Speaker 1: and they would go deposit it. And they had gotten
3:10
Speaker 1: their checks that day. I believe the checks were deposited
3:15
Speaker 1: by sister Kathy before she went shopping at the bakery.
3:19
Speaker 1: To tell me, you're piecing together the timeline, Jemma Hoskins. Well,
3:24
Speaker 1: thanking Nancy by the way for having me on your program.
3:27
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity for us to keep the attention
3:30
Speaker 1: on the story because it's still a cold case. Our
3:34
Speaker 1: understanding that Kathy came home from school and she had
3:38
Speaker 1: talked to a student that afternoon a back going shopping
3:42
Speaker 1: for her sister because her sister Marilyn was getting married.
3:46
Speaker 1: She was very excited about that. So, as far as
3:49
Speaker 1: we know, she went out probably around seven to seven
3:54
Speaker 1: thirty after having dinner. Sister Russell was still at the apartment.
4:00
Speaker 1: Kathy traveled not very far, maybe ten minutes to a
4:04
Speaker 1: local shopping center in Baltimore. She did deposit her check.
4:08
Speaker 1: We do know that the money was in the bank
4:11
Speaker 1: and the receipt for that deposit is in you know,
4:16
Speaker 1: the police have that. We do know that she bought
4:20
Speaker 1: the buns. Now, the bakery was inside a large department
4:24
Speaker 1: store and it was very popular. It had a number
4:27
Speaker 1: of chains around Baltimore. It was named Muley's and for
4:32
Speaker 1: folks who have seen the keepers they will remember that
4:35
Speaker 1: that box of buns was actually on the floor of
4:40
Speaker 1: the passenger seat, and the trash can on the hump,
4:44
Speaker 1: thet the little bucket that we all used to have
4:47
Speaker 1: in her cars was also knocked over to the passenger side,
4:52
Speaker 1: and those crime scene photos are actually in the keepers.
4:57
Speaker 1: It's if I speculate, then everybody the world will say, well,
5:01
Speaker 1: Gemma knows what happened. And Gemma doesn't know what happened,
5:03
Speaker 1: but I do believe that someone accosted her in the
5:06
Speaker 1: car and possibly forced her over to the passenger seat.
5:11
Speaker 1: I don't know that, but that's what I'm assuming. Well,
5:15
Speaker 1: and it could have been in any way Jemma Hoskins,
5:18
Speaker 1: because we know she cast a two hundred and fifty
5:20
Speaker 1: five dollars check just before she disappears. It was a
5:24
Speaker 1: routine trip. Either sister Kathy or her roommate made the
5:27
Speaker 1: trip to the bank every other Friday with their paychecks
5:30
Speaker 1: from the city school system. That bakery box was on
5:34
Speaker 1: you're saying, not the front car seat, as I had found,
5:37
Speaker 1: but on the floorboard of the front car seat. And
5:39
Speaker 1: that's significant. It was on the floor. That's significant because
5:42
Speaker 1: you know what it says to me if it were
5:44
Speaker 1: me and I were driving and I wanted to eat
5:46
Speaker 1: something from the bakery, which has happened way too many times,
5:49
Speaker 1: I would have it sitting on the seat, the passenger seat,
5:52
Speaker 1: so I could reach over and get it, not the floorboard.
5:56
Speaker 1: So why did she put it in the floorboard. It
5:59
Speaker 1: actually was wrapped up. You can see the box. It's
6:02
Speaker 1: tied with cord in both directions. It's not mashed, it's
6:07
Speaker 1: it's you know, intact, and it is on the floor
6:12
Speaker 1: of the passenger side. And that was from HECT right exactly.
6:17
Speaker 1: HC ht Sum. There was a bakery, Mule's Bakery, within
6:23
Speaker 1: Hex department store, correct, So I believe someone actually saw
6:28
Speaker 1: her there. But we don't need an eyewitness because we
6:30
Speaker 1: know she made it that far. Now Hex Bakery, Mule's
6:35
Speaker 1: Bakery was someone There was someone there following her after
6:39
Speaker 1: she cast her check. Did she ever make it to
6:42
Speaker 1: buy and didn't she buy a necklace? Is that what
6:44
Speaker 1: she bought for the sister? Well, that's what we've assumed.
6:49
Speaker 1: Now we have indications that she may not have bought anything.
6:56
Speaker 1: The police have an interview with someone at the Bridal
7:01
Speaker 1: Registry and the Heck Company and it indicates that Kathy
7:06
Speaker 1: was asking questions about how to set up a bridal registry.
7:11
Speaker 1: So we have a question mark about the necklace. We
7:14
Speaker 1: don't know and there was no receipt found or anything
7:19
Speaker 1: in the car that indicated that a gift had been bought.
7:23
Speaker 1: There was no car. Did she still have the money
7:25
Speaker 1: from the cash she'd either? I think she cast some
7:29
Speaker 1: of the check. What happened to the cash? The cash
7:33
Speaker 1: was not in the car she cast her check. So
7:36
Speaker 1: before I say that there was a giant cover up
7:39
Speaker 1: within the archdiocese church where she she had taught for
7:43
Speaker 1: so long Archbishop Kyo High School, before I claim that,
7:47
Speaker 1: I mean, could it have been Jemma that somebody saw
7:52
Speaker 1: her with an expensive necklace she just bought, followed her
7:54
Speaker 1: out so or somebody got her after she cast a
7:58
Speaker 1: check the money was nowhere to be found. Are those
8:01
Speaker 1: viable options? Or no? Just I don't have a dog
8:04
Speaker 1: in the fight. I just want the truth. Both are possible.
8:08
Speaker 1: We did have the necklace analyzed by a gemologist at
8:12
Speaker 1: a story store last year, and he indicated that it
8:19
Speaker 1: was probably one of a number of necklaces that were
8:25
Speaker 1: made more as a novelty for birthstones. And he said
8:30
Speaker 1: at that time, in nineteen sixty nine, it was probably
8:34
Speaker 1: worth about fifteen dollars, so it wouldn't have been high
8:38
Speaker 1: end jewelry, but fifteen dollars to a teacher who's making
8:43
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty dollars every two weeks would be
8:46
Speaker 1: a lot of money, So we're not sure about that.
8:49
Speaker 1: Of course, it's possible that someone may have seen her
8:53
Speaker 1: deposit the check. We also know that a young girl
8:57
Speaker 1: from Archbishop ko was near the bank in the parking
9:01
Speaker 1: lot with her mom and they talked to sister Kathy
9:04
Speaker 1: in the parking lot, and the police have their interview,
9:08
Speaker 1: So we don't know if that was as she was
9:10
Speaker 1: leaving to return home or to go across the street
9:14
Speaker 1: to the hat company, or if it was when she
9:17
Speaker 1: was going into the bark. Podcaster also on the story,
9:34
Speaker 1: the other monster rearing its head in the scenario is
9:40
Speaker 1: a series of claims made which I believe. I'll just
9:46
Speaker 1: put it out there. I believe these women regarding sex
9:52
Speaker 1: abuse with art within Archbishop Kyo High School by one
9:58
Speaker 1: of the fathers, Joseph Mascal. What do you know, Shane, Well, Nancy,
10:05
Speaker 1: I will say I also believe these women and since
10:08
Speaker 1: the Netflix documentary aired, several more of them came forward.
10:14
Speaker 1: So when when I look at this case, there's there's
10:18
Speaker 1: a few different angles. It's almost like a few different fronts.
10:21
Speaker 1: There's this abuse that's happening. I believe one hundred percent
10:24
Speaker 1: that it happened and the church covered it up. When
10:29
Speaker 1: I look at this case, I also see the similarities
10:33
Speaker 1: between the Church of Baltimore and the mafia. And I
10:38
Speaker 1: say that because the mafia, we know, has influence, they
10:42
Speaker 1: have money, and people are scared of them, and it
10:46
Speaker 1: seems like that's what these women were facing at that
10:49
Speaker 1: time as well. Not only was it the mafia present,
10:53
Speaker 1: but they also were afraid of the faith, the faith
10:56
Speaker 1: element as well. You know, my family is very religious,
10:59
Speaker 1: they're not cassolite. But I think if I were to
11:01
Speaker 1: ever approach someone and say that I was being abused
11:05
Speaker 1: by someone from the church, that puts a lot of
11:08
Speaker 1: question in my family's faith. And unfortunately, that was what
11:12
Speaker 1: these women were all facing at that time. Also, when
11:17
Speaker 1: I'm looking at this case, just as an overhead, we
11:21
Speaker 1: can it's it's easy to wonder if Kathy was robbed.
11:27
Speaker 1: We see people being robbed all the time, and they don't.
11:30
Speaker 1: They don't end up in the same fate that Kathy
11:32
Speaker 1: ended up. So the question, the big question here is
11:36
Speaker 1: are these events related? And I mean it's it's crazy.
11:40
Speaker 1: All of these women that were abused, they will tell
11:42
Speaker 1: you we think that this was related. Because of course,
11:46
Speaker 1: prior to Sister Cathy being being murdered, she was saying
11:51
Speaker 1: that she was going to confront these people who were
11:53
Speaker 1: abusing And it's not that she was just going to
11:57
Speaker 1: be confronting Father Matschol. She's confronting the this church that
12:01
Speaker 1: that we know protected him and they are willing to
12:05
Speaker 1: put theirselves and their money on the line to protect him.
12:09
Speaker 1: So when when you come up with this scenario, what
12:14
Speaker 1: are they willing to do to ensure that they not
12:16
Speaker 1: only continue to protect this monster, but to protect themselves
12:22
Speaker 1: because now they're they're they've dug a hole where they've
12:24
Speaker 1: protected him for so many years. You know, anytime abuse
12:28
Speaker 1: would come up against him, they would move him to
12:31
Speaker 1: a different place, or they would send him to a
12:33
Speaker 1: facility where they would try to help him or try
12:36
Speaker 1: to get to try to stray him in a different direction.
12:40
Speaker 1: But after so long, you know, if if if sister
12:43
Speaker 1: Cathy would have came out at that time and made
12:46
Speaker 1: a big noise against them. That's a lot of people
12:49
Speaker 1: with a lot of money and a lot of influence
12:52
Speaker 1: that would have gone down. And I don't see that
12:54
Speaker 1: them being willing to let that happened to Shine Waters
12:59
Speaker 1: and Jimma Hoskins. The big question is, while Sister Cathy,
13:06
Speaker 1: we don't have evidence that she was molested by the
13:09
Speaker 1: priest a Joseph Maskell, she seemingly knew all about rampant molestation,
13:20
Speaker 1: sex molestation and the Catholic school Archbishop ko High School.
13:26
Speaker 1: In fact, isn't it true Jemma Hoskins that she quote
13:30
Speaker 1: ran interference for one of his molestation victims that didn't
13:36
Speaker 1: want to see him or encounter him. What a horrible,
13:39
Speaker 1: horrible position to be in as a young girl being
13:44
Speaker 1: raped and molested over and over and over at school
13:48
Speaker 1: by the person that when you're in confession you're literally
13:51
Speaker 1: speaking to God and you have to see the person
13:59
Speaker 1: at school. And she's apparently one of the victims enlisted
14:03
Speaker 1: Sister Kathy to keep her away from her molester. Correct,
14:09
Speaker 1: so Kathy knew about everything? Was she about to blow
14:13
Speaker 1: the lid? Jimma what can you tell me about these victims. Well,
14:19
Speaker 1: I know first hand of three women who when they
14:24
Speaker 1: were girls, confided in Kathy, and the first one I
14:31
Speaker 1: know confided in December of sixty eight, the other two
14:37
Speaker 1: in nineteen in the spring of nineteen sixty nine. Now,
14:41
Speaker 1: Kathy left Archbishop ko to teach in a public school
14:45
Speaker 1: and to live in an apartment in the spring in
14:48
Speaker 1: June of sixty nine. So, on one hand, the girls
14:54
Speaker 1: felt like she had abandoned them, But my gut tells
14:58
Speaker 1: me that perhaps she and Russell we're afraid to stay there.
15:02
Speaker 1: She told her family when they were very dismayed, that
15:05
Speaker 1: she was leaving and thinking about leaving the convent. And
15:09
Speaker 1: she told her family that it was more dangerous for
15:12
Speaker 1: her to teach at Kio than it was to teach
15:16
Speaker 1: in the city in Baltimore, which says a lot. Now,
15:20
Speaker 1: we also are aware from more than one woman that
15:25
Speaker 1: high ranking politicians and businessmen and police officers were involved
15:30
Speaker 1: in the abuse. This was a prostitution ring. This wasn't
15:34
Speaker 1: just a few girls from Kio. There were drugs involved,
15:39
Speaker 1: there were sleazy motels involved, and everybody took care of
15:44
Speaker 1: each other. If it goes all the way to city Hall,
15:47
Speaker 1: and it did. Then everybody's taking care of each other.
15:52
Speaker 1: The police are taking care of Moscow, the politicians are
15:57
Speaker 1: taking care of the businessmen, and nobody talks. The police
16:02
Speaker 1: are being serviced some right at the school, coming in
16:06
Speaker 1: the fire door into father Maskell's office where drugged and
16:12
Speaker 1: or hypnotized girls were there and money is exchanged. When
16:17
Speaker 1: I think that I was in that building, it makes
16:19
Speaker 1: me so angry that the only thing that divided us
16:22
Speaker 1: from that hell was a one inch door. It's appalling
16:27
Speaker 1: because we knew nothing about what was going on, and
16:31
Speaker 1: we know that, I believe much of the many of
16:34
Speaker 1: the administrators in the building knew what was happening. They
16:38
Speaker 1: refused to talk to the police. The ones that are
16:40
Speaker 1: still living, they've been told by their superiors not to talk.
16:45
Speaker 1: And it's not right. Somebody has to blow the whistle.
16:49
Speaker 1: This is not okay. And well, there's some credence, a
16:55
Speaker 1: fair bit of credence to Jima's story because we know
16:59
Speaker 1: that Father Joe Joseph Maskell was a chaplain and counselor
17:03
Speaker 1: there at Archbishop Kio High School. He had a brother
17:06
Speaker 1: on the police force, and there is no doubt that
17:12
Speaker 1: sister Cathy knew about the abuse. Not only did he
17:17
Speaker 1: have a brother on the police force, he was a
17:20
Speaker 1: counselor or the chaplain to the force as well, so
17:26
Speaker 1: there are a lot of connections between him and the police.
17:29
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm Methodist, I'm not Catholic, but when I
17:35
Speaker 1: hear about a Methodist minister who has done a horrible deed,
17:42
Speaker 1: I am mortified. I think it's just horrible because that's
17:48
Speaker 1: someone you look up to, that you trust. I consider
17:51
Speaker 1: my minister, who we have male and female ministers at
17:57
Speaker 1: our family church. I consider them not only friends, but
18:02
Speaker 1: confidants and someone that I would go to to pray
18:07
Speaker 1: for or with me in times of need. You know,
18:11
Speaker 1: it's hard to take in that someone who is a
18:16
Speaker 1: person of God that we look to, that we look
18:22
Speaker 1: up to, and I do. I look up to them,
18:25
Speaker 1: even though I've heard countless stories about this priest did that,
18:29
Speaker 1: this preacher did, that, this minister did, and most of
18:32
Speaker 1: them aren't just true. To think that these young girls
18:37
Speaker 1: were in this position to be raped over and over
18:42
Speaker 1: and over, and Mascal was transferred from one place to
18:47
Speaker 1: the next, and now you've got I dead. None Jimma Hoskins.
18:53
Speaker 1: Isn't it true You're a senior there at Kio High
18:57
Speaker 1: School at the time, mister Kathy goes missing? Right? Correct? Yes? Correct?
19:04
Speaker 1: What was it like when you discover she's not at
19:07
Speaker 1: school today? Yeah? What happened at the time that she disappeared.
19:12
Speaker 1: She was no longer teaching at Keo, that's from teaching
19:15
Speaker 1: at Western High School in the city. But we were
19:18
Speaker 1: told that she was missing that you know, there were
19:20
Speaker 1: no cell phones and no Facebook, but our telephones, our landlines.
19:25
Speaker 1: All the girls were all calling each other and all
19:29
Speaker 1: community showed up at her apartment to help search. And
19:33
Speaker 1: you've seen pictures of all the police car as well.
19:36
Speaker 1: There were that many families looking as well. We were bewildered.
19:40
Speaker 1: We didn't know that perhaps she just needed to get away,
19:44
Speaker 1: Maybe she, you know, just needed some space. We had
19:49
Speaker 1: no idea what happened to her. It didn't make sense. Well,
19:51
Speaker 1: was she the kind of person that needed space? Well,
19:54
Speaker 1: she kind of made her own space. But we knew
19:57
Speaker 1: nothing about the abuse, so we had nothing to assume.
20:02
Speaker 1: None of us knew anything about what was going on
20:04
Speaker 1: at the school except the girls. It was happening too,
20:07
Speaker 1: so I'm sure their mindset was very different. And I
20:10
Speaker 1: know that I've heard one woman say that she had
20:15
Speaker 1: confided in Kathy and has felt guilty that she might
20:18
Speaker 1: have been responsible for Kathy's deaths. So none of us
20:22
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. Well, listen to this. Listen
20:25
Speaker 1: to this, Jemma with Me, Jimma Hoskins, Shane Waters, Karin Starkin,
20:29
Speaker 1: John Lemley, Guys, listen to this. This is Donna van
20:33
Speaker 1: den Bosch who suffered horrific abuse. She actually got a
20:41
Speaker 1: meager settlement with the Catholic Church. She was attacked when
20:45
Speaker 1: she was just fourteen years old by the same father Maskew.
20:54
Speaker 1: She had been a bright, excited, happy freshman at the school.
21:01
Speaker 1: And here she is on w JAZ describing how she
21:06
Speaker 1: was given a drug laced soda while she was at
21:10
Speaker 1: a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by father Mascow
21:17
Speaker 1: and another priest. Listen, he was psychotic and here's this
21:22
Speaker 1: parish priest that I've known since I was twelve, and
21:27
Speaker 1: it's all so confusing, and this we go one for
21:31
Speaker 1: the next three years. She opens up to w jay
21:34
Speaker 1: Z telling how she's served a drug laced soda at
21:38
Speaker 1: a Catholic youth picnic and then raped by Father Mascow
21:42
Speaker 1: and another priest. I'm just woozy by fall. Damn. He
21:47
Speaker 1: lays on top of me. He puts his legs in
21:50
Speaker 1: between my legs to spare my legs part, and raps me.
21:54
Speaker 1: She goes on to state that at school she would
21:58
Speaker 1: hear her name call over the loudspeaker, telling her to
22:03
Speaker 1: report to Father Mascal's office. She said that sometimes she
22:09
Speaker 1: would go in and be raped, and sometimes he would
22:13
Speaker 1: have a coke. She would be drugged most of the
22:17
Speaker 1: time and would be threatened. Listen. Sometimes I would go
22:23
Speaker 1: in and be raped. Sometimes he would have a coke.
22:28
Speaker 1: I would be drugged most of the time. He would
22:32
Speaker 1: keep guns in his top drawer. He would threaten me
22:36
Speaker 1: with them. You stole your innocence, yes, you stole your education. Yes.
22:42
Speaker 1: Did you steal your faith? Yes? Because maybe I could
22:46
Speaker 1: have grown up Catholic and been happy, and I had
22:49
Speaker 1: to teach my kids. You just don't trust people because
22:52
Speaker 1: they have a collar own or something. You know, monsters
22:57
Speaker 1: high You've seen a monster? Yes? Yeah. How do you
23:00
Speaker 1: feel about the archdioseuse? Now this has to stop. People
23:04
Speaker 1: have to take responsibility. I hope they find out the
23:10
Speaker 1: terrible deeds that were done, and just to be served.
23:15
Speaker 1: I also hope that other survivors here that you can survive,
23:21
Speaker 1: the can move on, don't be fooled into silence. So
23:25
Speaker 1: in my mind, John Limley, the fact that the church settled,
23:30
Speaker 1: it wasn't for a lot, but they did make a
23:32
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars settlement for all the rapes she endured
23:36
Speaker 1: at the hands of father. And I say that with
23:41
Speaker 1: them dirt in my mouth, Mascal, so to me, that
23:46
Speaker 1: tells me her story is true, or why would they
23:48
Speaker 1: have settled? And a lot of that didn't take place
23:51
Speaker 1: until twenty or so years later, two decades after the abuse.
23:56
Speaker 1: I think it would be interesting to go back to
23:59
Speaker 1: the the timeline of that early November evening when Sister
24:04
Speaker 1: Cathy disappeared to bring a little bit more forward about
24:10
Speaker 1: the case. Now, a few hours went by after sister
24:15
Speaker 1: Cathy told Sister Russell that she was going to cash
24:18
Speaker 1: her paycheck, go to the bakery, maybe do a little shopping.
24:23
Speaker 1: It's eleven o'clock. A good number of hours have gone by,
24:28
Speaker 1: and so sister Russell becomes worried. So she calls two
24:33
Speaker 1: of their priest friends who drive over to the apartment.
24:38
Speaker 1: They eventually decide to call the police, and then they wait,
24:42
Speaker 1: and they wait for hours. In fact, at one point
24:47
Speaker 1: they even celebrate mass at the kitchen or dining room table,
24:53
Speaker 1: just hoping against hope that that sister Cathy just shows up.
24:58
Speaker 1: Around four forty the next morning, it's still very dark,
25:04
Speaker 1: Sister Cathy's brand new Greenford Maverick is found with mud
25:09
Speaker 1: on it, unlocked, illegally parked just diagonally across from her apartment.
25:17
Speaker 1: And this is interesting. The back end of the vehicle
25:20
Speaker 1: is actually in the road, and Sister Cathy had a
25:26
Speaker 1: designated parking spot behind the apartment building, so she certainly
25:30
Speaker 1: would not have parked there. It's it's as if someone
25:33
Speaker 1: wanted that vehicle found, but there was no sign of
25:38
Speaker 1: the nun anywhere. Well, I can tell you this, John Emily.
25:41
Speaker 1: She did not part that car that way. No, not
25:44
Speaker 1: at all. And it was several weeks. It was months
25:50
Speaker 1: later before, on a cold, cold January day, sister Cathy's
25:57
Speaker 1: body is found by a hunter and his son. It
26:02
Speaker 1: was found in an informal landfill. You know, it was
26:06
Speaker 1: a landfill that was not designated as such. It's just
26:09
Speaker 1: where people went to dump stuff. It was on Monumental Road,
26:14
Speaker 1: in a remote area of a good distance away from
26:18
Speaker 1: Cathey's apartment, And after an autopsy was performed, it was
26:24
Speaker 1: revealed that sister Cathy died from an interest cerebral hemorrhage
26:30
Speaker 1: after a fracture to her skull that was inflicted by
26:35
Speaker 1: a blow to her left temple. They think by a
26:39
Speaker 1: blunt instrument. When sister Cathy was reported that night, dozens
26:43
Speaker 1: of cops a half a dozen dog teams searched and
26:46
Speaker 1: searched a wide swath of Baltimore in that neighborhood looking
26:51
Speaker 1: for clues, headlines in the papers or city police failed
26:57
Speaker 1: to find missing none, And as John Limley is reporting,
27:01
Speaker 1: the next time she was seen, it was a horrifying sight.
27:19
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace there she was, her face
27:26
Speaker 1: covered in maggots, the body of Sister Cathy frozen out
27:32
Speaker 1: in a field. When I look at her in her
27:36
Speaker 1: habit and then in her street clothes, she just looks
27:39
Speaker 1: so alive and so happy and so eager to teach.
27:44
Speaker 1: But it all turned into a horrific scene when she
27:49
Speaker 1: was found. Gemma, what can you tell me about another
27:55
Speaker 1: young girl who claims that she was taken by father
28:01
Speaker 1: Mescal to see as a threat sister Cathy's body as
28:08
Speaker 1: it lie in this field. Yes, I can clarify something.
28:12
Speaker 1: When Cathy's body was found, there was not evidence of
28:16
Speaker 1: maggots on her face. This has been a real issue
28:21
Speaker 1: of what actually happened because it was January. This is horrendous.
28:28
Speaker 1: But I've done research on the life cycle of maggots,
28:32
Speaker 1: and I've worked with the people that run the Body Farm,
28:35
Speaker 1: which is a research place for the decomposition, and what
28:41
Speaker 1: I learned was that because it was very warm after
28:45
Speaker 1: Kathy disappeared, when Jeanne was taken to see her in November,
28:50
Speaker 1: they're wren in live maggots on her face and on
28:54
Speaker 1: her body. Now, in January, there was no evidence of that.
29:00
Speaker 1: In reading the autopsy, which I have a copy of,
29:04
Speaker 1: and by the way, Warner's fits and we all know
29:07
Speaker 1: who Warner s Fitz is, he explains that there were
29:13
Speaker 1: maggots in her trachea and her esophagus. So that what
29:18
Speaker 1: happens when the weather gets cold is that live maggots
29:22
Speaker 1: burrowed deeper to where it's warm, and I have to
29:26
Speaker 1: try and stay objective about this because it's very emotional
29:29
Speaker 1: for me to think that this happened to the person
29:32
Speaker 1: who was my mentor and the reason I became a teacher,
29:35
Speaker 1: because to think of her in this setting is just
29:39
Speaker 1: really difficult for me. But the maggots actually were not
29:43
Speaker 1: on her face. They were inside her body, and that
29:45
Speaker 1: showed up in the autopsy. You know, I find that
29:48
Speaker 1: really interesting, jem and what you're saying. But well, how
29:51
Speaker 1: did the girl get out there and why did she
29:52
Speaker 1: report the dead body? Right? Well, she was taken by Maskle,
29:57
Speaker 1: and this was after she had been a by him
30:01
Speaker 1: for quite a while. He told her that he knew
30:03
Speaker 1: where Kathy was. Maskell took her to see Kathy's body,
30:08
Speaker 1: and at that time, because it was just a few
30:10
Speaker 1: weeks after her death, after her disappearance, there were live
30:15
Speaker 1: maggots on her face. So Jane is correct in saying
30:20
Speaker 1: that when Cathy's body was found in January, there was
30:25
Speaker 1: no evidence of maggots because it was cold and they
30:29
Speaker 1: burrowed deep into organs to get warm. Why do you
30:35
Speaker 1: believe she didn't come forward, Jemma Hoskins, Well, she was
30:39
Speaker 1: threatened with her life, Maskell said to her you see
30:42
Speaker 1: what happens when you say bad things about people, and
30:46
Speaker 1: she was terrified. So, Jean is the connection between the
30:51
Speaker 1: abuse and the murder. She's credible. I believe her. And
30:57
Speaker 1: when he took her there, it was to ensure her
31:00
Speaker 1: silence because she knew then that he had been responsible
31:05
Speaker 1: in some way for Kathy's death, for her murder, and
31:08
Speaker 1: that was early in his abuse career. So to every
31:12
Speaker 1: single person who had been abused by him, and we
31:15
Speaker 1: know now that that number is over a hundred, and
31:19
Speaker 1: to any nun at that school who knew about the abuse,
31:23
Speaker 1: everybody closed their mouth. They were terrified because they knew
31:28
Speaker 1: they could be next. And I always believe that that
31:31
Speaker 1: is why Russell did not call the police, because she
31:34
Speaker 1: knew the police were involved. I think that's why she
31:38
Speaker 1: called Kathy's friend, Jerry Coove and the other the other
31:43
Speaker 1: brother who was a friend, because she didn't know who
31:47
Speaker 1: to turn to. I think it almost proves that the
31:51
Speaker 1: police were involved because Russell kept silent and didn't call
31:54
Speaker 1: the police. But I believe that Jean is very credible.
32:00
Speaker 1: There's no way that she could have known that those
32:03
Speaker 1: live markets were there unless she saw them. Now here's
32:07
Speaker 1: another twist, another wrinkle. The body of Maskell, who later
32:11
Speaker 1: died was never going to jail, was exhumed. His DNA
32:17
Speaker 1: did not match crime scene DNA. That means nothing to me,
32:22
Speaker 1: John Limley. His DNA did not match DNA at the scene.
32:26
Speaker 1: But for all I know, the DNA at the scene
32:29
Speaker 1: is DNA in the car. It could be on the car,
32:32
Speaker 1: it could be anything. It could be on the paper bag.
32:36
Speaker 1: That does not mean anything to me. Limley. Where did
32:38
Speaker 1: the DNA come from? There? Talking about the DNA was
32:44
Speaker 1: found at the scene. That's been under wraps a little
32:48
Speaker 1: bit because even scene, the car, the apartment, the bank,
32:52
Speaker 1: the store, the bakery, bag, the body, what what what?
32:56
Speaker 1: What scene? There's so there's a primaria secondary in a
32:59
Speaker 1: tertiary c I'm seen here right, this was this was
33:02
Speaker 1: found connected with the vehicle and surrounding Kathy's body there
33:09
Speaker 1: where they found her on that January morning. Are you
33:11
Speaker 1: sure that's where the DNA came from? Jimma, go ahead,
33:15
Speaker 1: because I'm not clear either. Where did the DNA come from? Okay,
33:19
Speaker 1: then came from a cigarette butt? All right? It was
33:24
Speaker 1: found at the crime scene. But at this point the
33:27
Speaker 1: police have asked me not to share exactly where at
33:31
Speaker 1: the crime scene. That's all I can say. But it
33:34
Speaker 1: was at the crime scene where her body was found.
33:37
Speaker 1: But I can't tell you specifically where because I've been
33:40
Speaker 1: asked not to. So it was where her body was.
33:43
Speaker 1: And still, Jimma, no, We've got to keep the integrity
33:48
Speaker 1: of the investigation exactly. Jimma, here's the thing. It still
33:52
Speaker 1: means nothing to me because I don't know how that
33:54
Speaker 1: cigarette butt got there. It may or may not be connected.
33:58
Speaker 1: You just can't tell me that he was not involved
34:01
Speaker 1: in some way. I will never tell you that because
34:04
Speaker 1: I believe he choreographed the whole thing. Whether he was
34:07
Speaker 1: there or not, we don't know. Yeah, I read between
34:10
Speaker 1: the lines. The cigarette but was at the crime scene,
34:14
Speaker 1: and my opinion is that it may have been a decoy, okay,
34:21
Speaker 1: because it hasn't matched anybody, and so perhaps you know,
34:25
Speaker 1: these guys were I think they were in cahoots. They
34:28
Speaker 1: weren't stupid. Mascoll was a monster, genius, and if he
34:34
Speaker 1: involved thugs, anybody could have thrown a cigarette button there
34:38
Speaker 1: from any place and everybody was going in the wrong direction.
34:41
Speaker 1: Jim let me ask you a question, what was his personality.
34:43
Speaker 1: Was he charismatic? Was he attractive? I mean, I've looked
34:47
Speaker 1: at him. He's not attractive to me, But why were
34:49
Speaker 1: people drawn to him? Okay, mascoll was charismatic in he
34:55
Speaker 1: was very brilliant. He was very smooth, the smooth talker.
35:00
Speaker 1: To me, he was never physically attractive. People say, you
35:05
Speaker 1: know who would play him in a in a movie,
35:08
Speaker 1: and I can't think of any He's not George Clooney,
35:11
Speaker 1: but very insidious, always watching. It's my understanding that he
35:18
Speaker 1: would consult with the nurse, the counselor, and the dean
35:21
Speaker 1: each week about what girls were having problems mental, physical, school, emotional,
35:28
Speaker 1: and that would be his shopping list. I hate to
35:30
Speaker 1: say it that way, but that's how he prayed on
35:32
Speaker 1: his victims. Girls who were having issues, girls who were upset,
35:38
Speaker 1: girls who were, you know, experimenting with drugs or were
35:42
Speaker 1: having problems at home. He was looking for anybody that
35:47
Speaker 1: he could manipulate. And I'm not saying that all the
35:49
Speaker 1: victims were in that situation, but he was drawn to
35:55
Speaker 1: certain types of girls that he knew he would be
35:58
Speaker 1: able to manipulate. He would say mass He did not
36:04
Speaker 1: live at art Ko. He would come to say Mass
36:06
Speaker 1: and he was chaplain. The other priest that was there
36:09
Speaker 1: was the head of religious studies, and that was Neil Magnus.
36:14
Speaker 1: He also was abusive. He is actually the first person
36:17
Speaker 1: that some of the girls interacted with in confession, and
36:22
Speaker 1: then he asked them to come to his office. So
36:25
Speaker 1: he and Maskell would abuse girls together. A lot of
36:29
Speaker 1: people knew what was going on, and nobody was talking
36:32
Speaker 1: about it. And I believe Sister Kathy and Sister Russell
36:35
Speaker 1: were the only two that we're willing to do anything.
36:38
Speaker 1: Jimma Hoskins final thought to me, I'm not religious, but
36:43
Speaker 1: I do have faith and do believe in my higher power.
36:46
Speaker 1: But to me, if evil walks the earth, it would
36:50
Speaker 1: have been him, pure evil, because he could hide behind
36:56
Speaker 1: a presvestments and he could come across as being charming smart.
37:02
Speaker 1: You know. His professor at at Hopkins said he was
37:06
Speaker 1: one of the smartest people she ever met, and he
37:08
Speaker 1: fooled her because they became friends and it wasn't until
37:12
Speaker 1: the end of his life that she realized what he
37:15
Speaker 1: was doing. So it's appalling because you know, people believe
37:22
Speaker 1: while you do what the priest says, and girls were
37:24
Speaker 1: afraid to tell and it's a mess. It's a mess.
37:28
Speaker 1: I do believe it will be solved. I think the
37:31
Speaker 1: police it boils down to, well, you're you're an attorney.
37:36
Speaker 1: It's going to be either DNA, a confession, or an
37:39
Speaker 1: eye witness, and all three of those are possible right now.
37:43
Speaker 1: And the police are using new technology. They're doing further
37:46
Speaker 1: testing with DNA on the evidence that was found at
37:50
Speaker 1: the scene, and I believe it'll be solved and probably
37:57
Speaker 1: in the not too distant future. The case of the
38:00
Speaker 1: abduction and murderer of sister Kathy is still open, still unresolved.
38:09
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Story is signing off Goodbye Friend,