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Howard Tribble · Calm Under Fire

• Col. John Boggs: Good to be with you today. I'm Colonel John Boggs and ⁓ This is Under Fire. ⁓ This is Leadership Conversation. And today our Leadership Conversation is with Howard Tribble. ⁓ Howard is builder in the truest sense of the word, folks. He began his career as a union cement mason in Chicago and went on to become a Fortune 400 executive. That's correct. Fortune 400 executive and founder of Tribble Investments. ⁓ That's a equity firm investing across real assets, financial markets, and alternative investments worldwide. Over four decades, Howard has led the development, design, and construction of some of the world's most complex projects, spanning hospitality, gaming, entertainment, and mixed-use developments, often a billion-dollar scale. Let me say that again. At a billion... dollar scale. Along the way, he's remained deeply committed to philanthropy, service, and thoughtful leadership. This conversation is about the journey, the judgment, and what it really takes to build things that last. And I'm going to throw one other thing in here, and that's this. Howard doesn't do podcasts. So I'm going to tell you folks, this is a treat. He does not do podcasts. But he... Howard Tribble: Yeah. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Thankfully, he felt good for an old Marine and is doing this one. I greatly appreciate it. Howard, thank you so much. Howard Tribble: You're very welcome, John. It's a pleasure. And you're right. I've never done a podcast before. I've been asked countless times in the last few years, and I've always said no for one reason or another. ⁓ You know, I guess for one reason, I just really don't like to put myself out there. ⁓ I'd rather stay kind of behind the camera or in the shadows, ⁓ which might seem a little bit counterintuitive given the topic that we have here ⁓ for today. But ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: Maybe that's just something I've decided to do as I've gotten older. I don't know. But it's a pleasure to be here and I thank you for welcoming me. Col. John Boggs: Thank you, Howard. Thank you. Well, Howard, can we start? Great. Okay. Howard, you started in the trades and went on to lead multi-billion dollar projects. When you look back, what mattered most in shaping how you lead today? Howard Tribble: Sure. Well, you know, I think the short answer is learning how to, pardon me, learning early on how to deal with people. You know, I feel like everybody's different. Everybody's personality is different. Everybody's background is different. ⁓ I try not to group people into categories. I don't believe in the word normal. ⁓ I treat everybody with respect and ⁓ take them at face value. I've gotten... I have a bad habit of trusting everybody until they give me a reason not to. And ⁓ sometimes that's hurt me. And most of the time it's not most of the time it's worked out really nicely. ⁓ Interestingly, I found out the more you climb the corporate ladder, ⁓ more people are pigeonholed and ⁓ they're more responsible, more so responsible for their little activity. Maybe it's not little, but if you want to look at it as pigeonholes, it does become somewhat little. And they're very protective of those little pigeonholes, their little domain. just like a superintendent would be ⁓ as he was being the king over his project, job site and whatever. So ⁓ breaking it down to dealing with everybody as an individual and a unique person as to who they are and getting to know them and respect them and give them the proper tools to succeed and the proper guidance and whatnot, I think that was the key. ⁓ And I apologize for the ⁓ clog throat, suppose, whatever. ⁓ Anyway, I remember years ago when I was very young, ⁓ you know, there was a manager of the Chicago Cubs. His name was Leo DeRosier. ⁓ He used to be a player. He recognized the name. Yeah. Col. John Boggs: Sorry. ⁓ I recognize the name. Howard Tribble: So he was kind of, well, by the time he got to Chicago, he was kind of a cantankerous guy, but he was a shortstop in his younger days. He played for the Dodgers, as I remember, and he, I think, managed the Dodgers before Walter, ⁓ not O'Malley, but the gentleman who managed the team, ⁓ you know, with one-year contracts for like 20 years. I can't remember his name, but his first name was Walter. Anyway, DeRosha preceded him as the manager, and then DeRosha, Got the boot from the Dodgers and came out over to the Cubs. And I remember listening to him on television one day on WGN doing an interview and ⁓ somebody asked him what the secret for his success was in terms of how he treated the players, how he got the most out of his players. And he said, frankly, some guys you've got a baby and some guys you've got a bully. And I never forgot that. ⁓ So as I met people and I needed to enact either one of those, ⁓ you know, forces, I kind of did, right? So along the way, I just remembered that and some people I really had to, you know, really kind of kiss up to them to get them to do what I wanted. I'm not naming names or even categories here. you know, I will say this, and I don't think it's necessarily going to offend anybody, but I hope it doesn't. That's not my intention. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Howard Tribble: But having a lot of experience or tremendous experience really in design as well as construction, ⁓ it is true in my experience anyway that architects and designers, you do need to really put them on a little bit of a pedestal and really, as I phrased it a minute ago, kiss up to them a little bit because they like to be ⁓ held on high. Construction people on the other hand are used to getting Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: bullied. And not that I come out of the gate trying to bully anybody, ⁓ construction people are much more hardcore. It's an interesting dynamic when you merge those two together. ⁓ But ultimately, if you do that well, you can have a very successful project ⁓ or career. And so learning how to treat people, I would say, is the best answer I can offer with regard to that question. ⁓ I also would say that ⁓ I learned a lot from my father who gave me my start. And he used to tell me, surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with people that are more intelligent than you, surround yourself with people that ⁓ are specialists in their field and rely on them. ⁓ Give them positions of authority, give them responsibility, hold them accountable, ⁓ but give them enough rope to do their job. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: and let them do that. And I think Steve Jobs came on record ⁓ while he was in his last years ⁓ saying basically that same thing, you you've got to hire good people, you've got to let them do their job. And I've always believed in that. Col. John Boggs: Wow, well, I'm gonna you said hold them accountable. Wow. I can't tell you how many organizations I work with. I work with CEOs who have a hard time holding their team accountable. And yet they will stop and say, know, we've got to do better with accountability here. Howard Tribble: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: And I smile and I said, well, it's got to start with you. You got to hold them accountable. So can you tell me a little bit more about that? When did you realize I've got to hold people accountable? This is about, ⁓ this is more than just building projects. When did you use, did you have a moment when it was like, aha, this is what my dad said is exactly right. Here it is. I got to hold these guys accountable. Howard Tribble: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, well, to kind of give you an overview, first of all, ⁓ before I say when it first probably dawned on me, ⁓ I think that, you know, whether it's a CEO or whether it's a department head or whomever the charged person might be in whatever setting they might be in, ⁓ it's human nature to want to be liked. Everybody wants to be liked, right? But when you're at work, ⁓ I don't necessarily care what the ⁓ or I don't certainly agree, but I I'll say it as I don't care what the talking heads say or the consultancy firms that you know have all kinds of you know, preachings and and ⁓ and and suggestions and hold twos, know, most people want to be liked and. ⁓ So therefore they want everybody to be their friend and they think that they can get the most out of them by, know. having this friendship relationship. And as an extension of that, when it comes down, when it comes time to come down hard on somebody, they don't want to do it. They may not know how to do it either in that particular relationship, but they don't want to do it. They want to maintain that friendship. They want to go out together on a Friday night or on a weekend, you know, and drink beers or whatever it might be and continue to be friends. And so you just can't do that. You know, it's a lonely world being a leader. ⁓ You have to take and ⁓ distance yourself from your relationships. And it's not for the faint of heart. ⁓ It just isn't. I mean, I call a lot of people my friends, thousands probably. And I have my share of enemies. There's no question about it. I have more than my share of people that just don't like me. And that's fine. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: You know, because, you know, what's one of the old sayings that ⁓ a ship wasn't made to stay in port, you know, you've got to go out there and test the waters and take on the currents and the waves and the swells and whatnot. ⁓ So if you want to be a leader, if you want to be in charge, you got to rock the boat at least from time to time. And, ⁓ you know, I learned that really early on. ⁓ So as an example, or the first time maybe, and this might not be the first time, but it's One of the first times. ⁓ So, you know, I ⁓ kind of grew up with a ⁓ Chicago based general contracting and concrete contracting company. And in the in the early 1980s, ⁓ the country was in a recession. And and and I wasn't one of the principles of the company's company, the two companies, I should say. But But the companies were owned by my father and his partner, 50-50. ⁓ But I was well known, and so was the other partners or the partner's son. We were well known to be expected to carry on the business when it was our time. And so I was very much trusted, and I had ⁓ high or huge expectations of me. So during this early 80s period, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: ⁓ 82, we were in recession as a country and we were looking for places to ⁓ extend our work because Chicago was dead. And so ⁓ we decided to look to other parts of the country and I was challenged or tasked with trying to see what might make the most sense. And we had an opportunity to go to Los Angeles ⁓ to... ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: kind of ride the coattail of an owner that we did a lot of work for in Chicago, and that was Metropolitan Structures. So Metropolitan Structures, ⁓ which was a division of Metropolitan Life Insurance at that time, ⁓ Metropolitan Structures ⁓ had a partnership for ⁓ a project, multi-phase, multi-year project called California Plaza. And it's right smack dab downtown at... ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: Third Street, then Grand and whatever else I've forgotten it's been so long, but this was in 83 that I went out there. I had gone there a couple of times to visit the site and meet people and whatnot, but we went out there in 83. And the first project of this multi-phase multi-year property was a 40 story building. And maybe it was 42 stories. I want to remember it as being 42. So a million square feet of commercial space had six levels of underground parking, had the Museum of Contemporary Art, it had ⁓ the rebuilding of the Third Street Tunnel. This was all just in the first phase. And we were engaged to do the concrete on this, which at that time wound up being over a $13 million ⁓ contract. All lump sum stipulated sum, meaning that ⁓ it might have been negotiated, but we still had to win it. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: from our competition. And that's the way I grew up in terms of contractual relationships out here in Las Vegas. When I first came here in 2003, it was the first I'd ever heard of a cost plus contract with a guaranteed maximum price. You I grew up in the trenches where, you you worked your ass off to get things done to save every penny or fraction of a penny that you possibly could for, you know, your company. And so Col. John Boggs: ⁓ huh. No. Howard Tribble: In 1983, I went out to Los Angeles ⁓ and I was 26 years old. And I was 26 years old. And so ⁓ I'm leading the charge. I'm tasked with leading the charge to build this $13 million ⁓ concrete frame, which was a big deal. And it was eye opening in many, many ways. ⁓ Lots of means and methods were completely different than in the Midwest. Relationships didn't exist. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: ⁓ We were working under a general contractor that was not our ally. They didn't want us there. We aced them out of doing their own concrete work. I won't name that name, but you know, so we're on this project and leading up to going out there, I was trying to recruit some people from Chicago to go with me, you know, to try to have a lead ⁓ carpenter foreman, ⁓ cement finisher. Col. John Boggs: I'm not. Howard Tribble: ⁓ you know, labor, it's some key people, right? And everybody had told me that they would go until it came time to go, and then they didn't want to go, right? ⁓ You know, they had families, and it was certainly understandable. So I wound up hiring local people, but I also wound up bringing some people from the Chicago area, the Chicago Company, who weren't necessarily the aid-less people, and I don't want to offend them when I say that. They're not all still alive anymore. ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: because they were older than me anyway. ⁓ But I brought them out there and some of these people were very dear friends ⁓ and people I had known for many, many years. ⁓ Well, when push came to shove and you have to make your numbers, you have to make the schedule, you have to be the boss, the leader, right? It comes time to hold people accountable. ⁓ And so I wound up cutting a few people loose. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: Those were my dear friends from my childhood in some cases. We still don't talk to each other, right? They just couldn't accept that business had to come over friendship at that point. And I wasn't gonna protect anybody. I wasn't gonna protect anybody and I didn't. ⁓ Now, I mean, I'm not necessarily proud of that in one way, but in another way, I was doing my job. That's what I was hired to do. Col. John Boggs: rough Howard Tribble: And so I go back to what I said at the beginning here, ⁓ know, leadership is a lonely space. ⁓ You know, and you either want that task or you want to be everybody's friend. And together you can go out and drink beers on a Friday night and complain about your job and complain about your boss. But as the boss, you can't get entangled with that. You've got to stand alone. Col. John Boggs: Wow, that is, you just gave a mouthful of leadership lessons right there. Business is first, mission, in Marines we call it mission is first, period. Mission is first. And something I've learned to call my cardinal sins, and it's just the first of the cardinal sins is trying to be everybody's friend. That will ruin you. so, wow, thank you for that, because you reinforced that even for me. So you've made decisions where the stakes were enormous. Howard Tribble: Yeah. Col. John Boggs: How did you learn to separate the noise from what actually mattered? Howard Tribble: Well, however I came onto this ⁓ belief, I did when I was very young ⁓ in this business ⁓ or in that business, because I don't really do it anymore. I always tried to listen to people that knew more about the topic than I did. I always tried to bring in ⁓ thoughts from people that ⁓ were experienced in that regard. I didn't decide to do necessarily what they suggested or what they would have done themselves, but I took in the input from two or three people that were in close proximity to me, meaning within an arm's length at that moment. ⁓ And I always made the decision based on what I believe was in the best interest of the project. I had a firm belief that if I did what was best for the project, then everybody would win. The owner, the contractor, the architect, the designers, the municipality, if that's a concern, depending on the topic. You know, I always tried to make a decision based on what was best for the project, not what was best for us or me. or any individual or company, but what was best for the project. And over the course of time, I relied on that position. And I think overall that worked out really pretty well. ⁓ Some people probably got irritated because they didn't side with them. ⁓ But in the end, that's what I did. And that's why I did it, because there's so much noise and you got to filter out the noise. Everybody has an angle. Everybody has a want. Everybody, everybody's got their hand in your pocket, right? And so, you you've to make a decision based on what's best for the project. ⁓ So that's what I did. That's what I did. I will say one more thing as an extension of that. And it's not like today, or it's not like it's been in my experiences for the last 20 years, at least, certainly not in Las Vegas. Because again, I said that I grew up in an atmosphere of cost, ⁓ fixed cost contracts. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: Meaning when you set a price, that's the price. It's not a cost plus with a guaranteed max where things ebb and flow and float all over the place. This is the amount that I'm ⁓ quoting you to do the job. And when I used to write proposals ⁓ to the recipients, whether they were the general contractor, whether they were the owners, I would say our company, and I'd state the name obviously, but I'd say our company ⁓ proposes to provide all necessary, always that, all necessary labor, material, ⁓ material, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ⁓ to complete the project, right? To complete the project. ⁓ And so we partnered with the owner, even though we were not being asked to. We partnered with the owner and we almost never. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: almost never submitted a change order request. ⁓ So we built relationships ⁓ with the owners ⁓ and the contractors, the general contractors that might have been above us. There really weren't construction managers at that point in time. ⁓ I mean, they were just fledgling. You know, they came around maybe in the early 1980s initially, but they didn't come off and have traction right away. ⁓ and, ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: nor do I think they really should at this point, but that's another topic. ⁓ So we always held our price and we would do what we needed to do in order to get the job done. And that was very, very well respected. So in terms of making decisions and siphoning through all the noise, we always had the project's best interest at heart, or at least I did. So that meant if we needed to take and swallow a change, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: in order to get the job done, we did, right? And basing the decision on the best interest of the project helped me in that regard to do that. Whereas today, especially in Las Vegas, everybody always has their handout for a change order. ⁓ It's very frustrating. It's very, very frustrating. Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Well, on that note, with today's, it's frustrating. hear that, I hear that. So what does good judgment look like? Today, when you see things going on today, what does good judgment look like today in a construction outfit? What does it look like? Howard Tribble: Mm-hmm. Well, I think a lot of that comes down to geography and tradition and history and relationship perhaps. But, ⁓ like I said before, ⁓ I never knew what a cost based contract was until I got to Las Vegas. We always worked on fixed price. And one of the reasons I wanted to come out here was to understand, ⁓ you know, what they did, how they did it, why they were different. ⁓ and, and I had that opportunity, ⁓ thankfully, but, I had heard. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: I had heard, you know, that Vegas and their builders and their architects and their designers did things better than we did in Chicago. And I really refused to believe that because, you know, in Chicago, we kind of created the three day pour cycle, which means that you do a slab of a full footprint of ⁓ a floor within three days. Right. And we strove to always do that. And we did always hit that mark. Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: And in Las Vegas, I heard that they did things, you know, similarly, but maybe not to those same levels of definition. So when I got out here, I realized not only did they have this cost based contract type of a format with this almost fictitious guaranteed maximum price, but what mattered to them most was ⁓ schedule. I, you know, the, I've always, I've always believed in a thing I called the three-legged stool, which means that one leg is ⁓ indicative of cost, one leg is indicative of schedule, one ⁓ leg is indicative of quality. So cost, schedule, and quality. And the old saying is, you know, pick any two because you can never have all three, or at least you can't have all three fully. You can have all three with some balance, but you can't have all three fully. So just for one example, you know, ⁓ if you want the best cost, Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: meaning the lowest cost and you want the best schedule, ⁓ meaning the fastest schedule, you're going to sacrifice some quality because they're all interrelated. And you can spin that around to, you know, settle on cost is the thing that matters most to you, but almost no one does because no one can afford that or no one can take the time to take in. ⁓ the time necessary for that to be able to happen. Now, with one exception that's actually very recent, and that's the Sphere here in Las Vegas. ⁓ The Sphere is an anomaly ⁓ to most projects because the quality, boy, off the charts, the design, the ⁓ product, off the charts. And it cost a bundle. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: I believe though it could have cost a lot less, but it didn't. It cost a bundle. ⁓ And the schedule was not by any means relaxed, but it took what it took in order to create this wonderful facility. And it is just that. It's a wonderful, highest quality imaginable facility. But getting back to the ⁓ three-legged stool, you you pick two because you can't have all three. In that particular example, whether they knew it or not, they were picking quality. they being ownership, Jim Dolan and Madison Square Garden. They were picking ⁓ quality. So ⁓ let's see here. So I've touched on the relationship with the fixed price contract versus the cost plus. I've touched on the three-legged stool. ⁓ I've touched on geographical differences ⁓ in terms of ⁓ how these things ⁓ are analyzed and kind of come together. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: But I think that the biggest thing is that ⁓ you need to decide before you ever start the project how you want it to be handled. And I don't think this is what happens most of the time. I think this is where most owners and most developers fail. ⁓ Out here in Las Vegas, where we have a predominant amount of ⁓ gaming and casinos, and ⁓ resort destinations, the most important thing to the owner Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: is to get the job done. know, get the slot machines cranking. That's probably truer in the older days as opposed to now because less and less younger people play those machines, but it was very true. So you want to hurry up and get open and start making money, start creating some cash flow. And a lot of these properties, especially the smaller ones in the expansions were ⁓ financed with free cash flow out of existing properties. So that even more so made it ⁓ critically important to take ⁓ and get the property open as fast as you possibly could because time was money, right? In both senses of word from an income and an expense perspective. But getting back to the bottom line, the point is that I think most owners and most developers fail because they don't recognize the importance of Col. John Boggs: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: coming out of the gate or pre-planning when and how they're going to come out of the gate better. And we call that a delivery method. So, you know, they don't pick the proper or give any thought to the delivery method. You know, the delivery method, ⁓ basically, to break it down and do a couple of different ways, it's either fixed cost or it's cost plus. Okay. And Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: And the distinct difference between the two is that cost plus, I'll start there, means that you can get an early start and theoretically an early finish. If you ⁓ start with the architect, you get a design, a master design, you start to break down the components of the project into phases, grading, foundation, these are permits, ⁓ Drawing packages in their respective. permits, know, you've got grading, you've got design grading, you've got foundations, basically, you've got superstructure, you've got mechanical electrical plumbing or, or systems, you know, fire protection as well. And then you've got interior finishes. And then at the end landscaping will say, you can, you can within reason, you know, package those components into their own permit application. sections and you can get an early start there for in theory. I'm really simplifying this for for this ⁓ moment, but but you can get an early start and theoretically an early finish. So what that really means is that you don't have to fully design the project and put it out for bid ⁓ and spend money to do that. You spend money as you're going through time, right? Well, what this ultimately leads to is higher cost. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: and, ⁓ conversely, if you spent the money to engage in architect of record and to complete the drawings and to have one bid package that encapsulated the entire project, put it out to bid, leveled that playing field of the respondents that were pre-qualified, you know, leveled that playing field and then chose that, that resulting contractor based on low bid, because now you've leveled the playing field, you've equalized everything. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: You know, now you can get your lowest price and you can get your fastest construction schedule. Not your not your fastest overall schedule, but your but your fastest construction schedule. ⁓ Most people, most owners don't recognize that, and certainly most developers do, but they don't want to spend the money. Developers all work of OPM. Other people's money. So the last thing that they want to do is spend the money on what may not be 100 % Col. John Boggs: and Howard Tribble: you know, green lighted project, you know, ⁓ they want to spend them, they want to spend as little money as possible by pulling favors in from people that are unqualified ⁓ to do projects ⁓ that they shouldn't be part of whatsoever, but they don't have to spend money in this regard, right? So they, so they, so they start with the design and, and they pull in those favors, like I said, and ⁓ And they try to get the drawing sufficiently finished, which in their mind is like 30%. ⁓ And they try to get a contractor on board to give them what is called the guaranteed maximum price. Because a lender, because the developer again wants to engage a lender because they don't want to spend their own money. ⁓ So they want the lender on board to finance the project. Col. John Boggs: Amen. Howard Tribble: And the lender wants a guaranteed maximum price from the contractor based on documents that are not whatsoever near finished. So the contractor goes out there and they get similar, ⁓ guaranteed maximum price quotes from subcontractors, least the majors, ⁓ the, know, ⁓ foundation workers, the, the, the contractors, the, the concrete steel, ⁓ mechanical electrical plumbing. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: So they get about 70 % of the subcontractor base to quote them guaranteed maximum prices based on historical record that are adjusted for current time based on what it costs to do the last job. So if the last job cost them $100 million just to pick a number and that was finished two years ago, then they might ⁓ look at some data to see what ⁓ Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: you know, CPI inflation numbers look like today and escalation is expected to be, you know, from that point in the past to today and whatnot. And they might put a factor of 25 % on top of that $100 million and they might re-quote you a G max or guarantee maximum price of G max of $125 million. Well, this is their shot in the dark as to how they create this, right? And so this whole thing gets bundled together and the contractor very reluctantly submits a Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: a very detailed with a lot of exclusions guaranteed maximum price proposal to the owner or developer who will then send it off to the lender who ultimately ⁓ but reluctantly ultimately will accept it. ⁓ And so, and so all the while, this is not the best delivery method, but it's the least expensive delivery method that these developers all want to utilize and all do utilize because they don't want to spend their own money. And you can't blame them for that, but it really makes for a project in total and immediate disarray that will take longer and cost more ⁓ if it ever gets finished. And there are projects in this town that are still shells. that are the results of that mentality, right? But it happens all the time and it's really sad. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Wow, so tell me about the, so how do large projects, large projects that don't succeed on, I mean, this is clearly, they don't succeed on effort alone. So what systems or disciplines did you use, ⁓ did you learn to use over time that works for you? Howard Tribble: Well, you know, it's a great question and ⁓ it's a, ⁓ you know, in my probably nearly 50 years of doing this, cause I started out in this business as a laborer on a high rise in Chicago that my dad dragged me down to work on one summer, the summer of eighth grade. was, I was 14 years old, but I was a, but I was a big 14 year old kid. Right. And so, ⁓ And I was taken down there to be a laborer for that summer. And that's where I fell in love with construction and where I fell in love with concrete construction particularly. ⁓ But let's see here, let's see here. I'm trying to recall your question. I got off on my past there, I'm sorry. Col. John Boggs: What, what, no, no, that's good. What systems or disciplines do you use? Howard Tribble: ⁓ systems. Yes, right. Yeah. So way back then you have to realize, you know, I'm going back to like 1971. Okay. And, for the next 20 years, you know, we did not have cell phones. We did not have ⁓ computers. Computers didn't, didn't come into play as a, as a desktop unit until the middle 1980s. And they were, you know, primitive. Col. John Boggs: or didn't. Howard Tribble: And the software written for them was even worse than primitive, if it worked at all, if it existed at all. So that didn't really take place until the 90s. And then you had fax machines starting there and you had some version of desktops that had some, again, primitive ⁓ programs. So everything was done manually. And I mean, everything was done manually. Drawings were done manually. ⁓ Schedules were done manually. Reporting was done manually. Payroll was done manually. There was no, you ⁓ know, payroll ⁓ company out there to do your payroll for you. ⁓ And in the union world, which we were, you know, that meant people needed to be paid weekly. And benefits paid monthly and tax deposits made ⁓ weekly. So, I mean, everything was done manually and it took a lot of effort. It took a lot of time. It took a lot of people. ⁓ Now, moving on from the earlier 90s ⁓ or late 80s into ⁓ today, now you've seen huge advancements with computerized systems, which are mostly just huge databases, right? They give you a lot of ⁓ potential for what it is that you can ⁓ input. But if you don't know where you're going, they won't help you get there. ⁓ I don't care what the program is, frankly. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: ⁓ everybody's been trying to package a turnkey system forever. And, and I used to use them too, where they would purportedly integrate payroll and AP and AR and job costs and general ledger and yada, yada, yada. And some did it better than others, but, mostly they just all did it poorly. ⁓ now if there's any of those companies out there that are watching this, ⁓ this podcast, they'll say that, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm not being accurate in my analysis and that's, that's fine. That's an opinion. I live through it. and, and, and, ⁓ so I can attest fully that, ⁓ things were done manually, or at least you ran parallel to make sure that the computer systems were accurate. but nowadays the big difference, like I said, is computerized systems, but you have to find knowledgeable people that know how to run these systems. Unfortunately, most of those people are the college educated construction management degree people that start out as Col. John Boggs: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Howard Tribble: ⁓ engineers on projects and they know how to run the systems, but they don't know what to put in the systems because it still takes experience to know how to analyze a project and how to get from A to B to C to D, know, timely and safely and professionally and from a quality perspective, you know, they know how to read. And I'm not trying to be down on any of the college kids. I'm really not. But Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: but they know what they know very well. But they think they know more, a lot more than they actually do know. It takes probably three to five years in the field after they graduate to learn a sufficient amount of the craft to be able to be ⁓ allowed to ⁓ take part of a project and run with it. So by then, they're really pretty skilled. They know the systems and they know how to put the realities of A into B by having lived through it. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: But it takes probably three or four projects before you would allow somebody to be able to do that because they just really don't have the full knowledge. Col. John Boggs: Well, that leads me to this. How do you know? How do you decide? How do you decide who you trusted? Who you trusted and, you when you're facing consequences, you got to have people you trust. How did you decide on who you trusted? Howard Tribble: Well, you do it together. mean, you at that point, really and trust needs to be earned. And I don't care who the person is, where he came from, he or she. And honestly, it wasn't until about 1985 that, you know, women even came into this industry. So it was was all a man's industry. And that's not good or bad. It's what it was. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Howard Tribble: So in who, how did I decide who to trust? Just looking over shoulders, working side by side, hand in hand, until it became repetitive and you could take and therefore then account on that person ⁓ to do it the way that you wanted, the way that it needed to be done. You'd lead them to the trough, ⁓ to use that old analogy and you show them how to drink. And you do it again and again and again and again until they did it without thinking about it. And they built, you know, they earned your trust. That's the only way it could work. couldn't just hand off the ball and expect them to run for a touchdown. Col. John Boggs: Okay. Okay. Howard, what did success, I mean, you've been successful. What did success teach you that you didn't expect? Did you learn something by being successful? What did you learn? Howard Tribble: Yeah. You know, I probably learned a heck of a lot. ⁓ One thing I learned that ⁓ I still enjoy immensely is the rush. ⁓ I love the challenge. I love the adrenaline rush of success. ⁓ It's something that I've never gotten out of my blood. I fell in love with concrete when I was 14 years old, and I never lost that. ⁓ in, in, in the industry of building things, you see your accomplishments. can measure your accomplishments on a daily basis. You know, especially if you're pouring concrete, right? ⁓ you know, you, you know, that your hard work and your blood, your sweat, your tears, and I mean, literally is going into this product and you see the result of it when you go home at night, that adrenaline rush, that feel of accomplishment, that, that, wow. ⁓ you know, we did this. It's never I, you know, it's we as a team, we did this. Everybody clicked together. And, and, you know, when I talked earlier about, ⁓ lump sum contracts and stipulated some contracts, you know, we were at risk. We were the companies at risk. We were the people at risk, not, the workers, ⁓ but we, you know, because they were getting paid by the hour, but we were the people at risk in, as ownership of those companies. ⁓ And so ⁓ we always, always work shorthanded. We always ⁓ humped as fast as we could safely, but still as fast as we could every day doing whatever it was. If I might say this, you know, whenever somebody from the office or from the architect's office or, you know, ownership's office would come to the job site and we would have Col. John Boggs: you Howard Tribble: dozens and dozens or hundreds of people ⁓ on a ⁓ project or dozens of people on the deck getting ready for that poor, that slab poor in the coming days. They would commonly say they were astonished because as they looked out over that deck of plywood, ⁓ all they could see was assholes and elbows. Everybody was bent over doing their particular task. working as fast and as professional as they possibly could. Frankly, you do not see that anymore. Very seldom do you see that because almost all these contracts out here at least are cost based. It's a much slower pace. ⁓ Safety has gotten, and this is a delicate subject. I really don't even want to get into it because I could be accused of not being a safe. a safety conscious person. That's the furthest thing from the truth. ⁓ Because I've been on projects where people have died and I don't ever want to relive that. I used to say that I never wanted to be responsible to have to go to somebody's home at night after the day was over and knock on that door and tell their spouse that their husband, their wife, their partner died. I never had to do that, thankfully. ⁓ But I did see at least on two separate projects, one in Chicago, one in Los Angeles, where interestingly, they were both iron workers. ⁓ Many people died, but the classification of the worker by trade was iron worker ⁓ or steel worker, not literally iron worker, but steel worker. ⁓ Four men died on a project that we were on in LA, and four people died on a project that we were on. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: ⁓ in Chicago ⁓ in my lifetime and had nothing to do with us, ⁓ but it was all just foolishness. Foolishness. yeah, so, you know, it's, you know, I think the initial question was what turns me on? What have I? Col. John Boggs: Wow. Mm. Howard Tribble: What have I taken out of this? I I got a little bit off track there, but it's the high, the high of success that gets in your blood, whatever constitutes it, whether it's cement and aggregate or whether it's something else. But I almost went into accounting. Col. John Boggs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: I fell in love with accounting when I was in high school. I almost went into accounting and, and, ⁓ I didn't wind up doing that because I made too much money in the summers working on construction. Somebody once gave me advice and they said, you know, ⁓ you know, you'll always have a job as an accountant, but you won't make a lot of money. And so I, I, I got, I got greedy. I took the job. I took the path of money, a financial gain. Right. And, ⁓ Col. John Boggs: ⁓ huh. Ha Mm-hmm. Howard Tribble: I can't imagine what it would be like or have been like in my life to sit behind a desk every day to just run numbers. I mean, I've done it as part of my job, but I really, I need to be out in the field. I need to be getting dirty. I need to have the wind in my face. To this day, I still cannot spend a lot of time in an office. I just, my body doesn't tolerate it. I start sweating. I get claustrophobic. I want to be outside. I want to be standing on the deck of a 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 story building, looking out and having no wall. That's what turns me on and always. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Wow. Well, Howard, at this stage, at this stage of your career, what kind of work still energizes you? Howard Tribble: Well, ⁓ you know, quite honestly, even if I was ⁓ asked to be part of a 40 story building that was commercial high rise, it was, you know, very simplistic and very typical. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it because been there, done that, you know, too many things that are unique or, just magnificent, magnificent designs, things that are Col. John Boggs: Yeah. Howard Tribble: things that are massive, huge developments, huge projects, uniqueness in the context, of a Sphere. When I had the opportunity to go join the team in the finance department at the Sphere, working ⁓ on ⁓ analytics and cashflow projections and change order requests and ⁓ job cost reporting and whatnot, ⁓ I wasn't in the field. Col. John Boggs: ⁓ huh. Howard Tribble: Not much. mean, I went to the job site, which was right next door to have, you know, attend meetings and whatnot. But, but, ⁓ you know, that turned me on because it was so unique. If you've not seen the sphere, I highly encourage you to do it. You know, it's, it's, it's wonderful. ⁓ so if there was an opportunity to do something like that again, I would be all over it. ⁓ so what would turn me on at this point is something unique or massive. ⁓ Col. John Boggs: ⁓ I see it, I see it, yeah. It is made. Mm-hmm. Wow. Howard Tribble: or one of a kind. I don't care where it is. I'd go worldwide. I don't care where it is. When I was last working at Caesars, we were building a new Caesars property in Incheon, South Korea. I went there once a month for a week ⁓ over the course of two years. ⁓ Ultimately, I wasn't able to finish that job because the company got sold before that project was finished. And I think the new owner decided to sell that development back to the partner we had. Col. John Boggs: Mmm. Howard Tribble: But I'm just giving you a taste of geographically not having any limitations. I would go anywhere, Col. John Boggs: When you think about legacy, not necessarily a project, but people, what matters most to you now? Howard Tribble: Yeah. Well. mean, first and foremost, ⁓ from a selfish perspective, I'd like to be remembered. ⁓ One of my fears is being ⁓ left to the wayside, right? Because we're not real good about history in this country as Americans. If it's not somebody that really stands out like Abraham Lincoln or George Washington, ⁓ we lose sight of history within two or three generations. And that's just very sad. I'd like to be remembered. You know, with all the good, the bad and the ugly, because I'm not perfect. I never was, and I never claimed to be, but I'd like to be remembered. I particularly would like to be remembered as somebody that was good at what they did and somebody that helped people along the way. ⁓ I've given a lot of people, whether it's individuals or companies, their starts. And I'd like to be remembered for that. I'd also like to be remembered for the philanthropy that I've done and the assistance that I provided. in that regard to certain charitable entities like the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, which I've been, and my wife as well, been hugely involved with. She had a brother that passed in 99 from cystic fibrosis. So since we got married and probably even while we were dating, you know, I've been very involved with CF. I was even the president of the chapter in the Nevada chapter here for five years in. from like 2015 through 2020 until the pandemic hit. And then other minority groups like the National Association of Minority Contractors. was a member there and an officer there for years in this chapter. I've been involved with other organizations in Chicago and here. groups and foundations and whatnot that strive to help people. I'm involved these days with our church very, very mightily, something that I really couldn't do. When I was working full time, I've spent 10 plus years working on our churches, our parishes, ⁓ finance committee and building committee. ⁓ I involved with Catholic Charities, ⁓ which is a wonderful organization. ⁓ My wife and I, donate ⁓ regularly and ⁓ substantially to a lot of these groups. ⁓ I want to be remembered as somebody that cared about other people and helped other people, ⁓ helped them to have better lives, whatever that ultimately looked like. Col. John Boggs: Wow. Howard, thank you very much. I think you will be remembered. My goodness, I think you will be remembered. ⁓ Thank you very much. Howard, if someone is listening, is thoughtful about leadership, construction, you've done what you've done, how would they reach you? Howard Tribble: Well, you know, I'm easy to find and I appreciate you asking. ⁓ I'm going to give out my personal email and my personal cell phone. ⁓ so there's no disguises here. There's no fronts. My email is just like my name, but with a dot in between. it's howard.tribble at gmail.com. And, ⁓ my cell phone is area code 702. Three seven ⁓ nine five seven two. I've had that email for. I don't know, 15 years in that cell phone for probably the same amount of time. So if you reach out to me there, I may not get back to you immediately, but I promise you I will get back to you. I make it a point to get back to everybody. Col. John Boggs: Well, Howard, thank you very much for being on the show today. I greatly appreciate it. This was truly enlightening. Thank you so much. So for those that are listening, we'll see you the next time. This was ⁓ Howard Tribble. And ⁓ my God, if you missed it, I mean, you didn't miss it because you're here. But at any rate, that's it. I'll see you all the next time out here. Howard Tribble: Thank you, John. Really appreciate it.