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The Next Builders · Difference Makers

• 0:05
  Brian Edwards: Over the past few episodes, we've looked at the power of Native CDFIs through policy philanthropy and collaborative finance. But there's another part of this story that matters just as much.
• 0:15
  Brian Edwards: The Native CDFI movement is growing today. There are about 65 certified Native CDFIs, roughly the same number as a decade ago, but that's starting to change. Across the country, three dozen emerging Native CDFIs are working to get off the ground, building towards certification and expanding access to capital in places that still don't have it. While Native CDFIs are making a real difference across Indian Country, many Native communities still don't have access to one.
• 0:51
  Brian Edwards: So the next chapter of this movement is not just about putting more capital to work, it's about building new institutions. In this episode, we hear from emerging leaders in Rhode Island, Oklahoma and Hawaii, who are doing exactly that, creating Native-led financial organizations designed around the needs, values and realities of their own communities. But first, to help frame the moment, I spoke with Kristen Wagner of the Native CDFI Network about what it takes to build the next generation of Native CDFIs.
• 1:26
  Brian Edwards: Welcome to difference makers 3.0 At the Native CDFI network.
• 1:33
  Brian Edwards: Kristen Wagner works with Native CDFIs nationwide, and she's focused on what comes next for the movement, I asked her about a new effort called The Rise initiative to help build Native CDFIs in communities that don't yet have them.
• 1:51
  Kristen Wagner: Our new initiative, RISE, which stands for readiness, infrastructure, systems and expansion, is about helping Native communities build Native CDFIs. We have recently learned through our research that our our network is growing substantially. We've discovered over 30 communities that are in the process of developing a Native CDFI from all ranges of phases, but we wanted to make sure that NCN was a key supporter for those Native CDFIs.
• 2:28
  Brian Edwards: That growth is happening across Indian country, but getting a Native CDFI off the ground takes more than demand.
• 2:36
  Kristen Wagner: It takes a lot of time and persistence and support to start a Native CDFI, these folks have to start everything from gaining 501(c)3 status, to developing their governance structure to then developing lending portfolio, determining what kind of loan products they're going to offer, and then getting capitalization so they actually have capital to provide to the community.
• 3:00
  Brian Edwards: That's the work already underway in dozens of Native communities. To see what that looks like on the ground, we spoke with emerging leaders who are building Native financial institutions in very different parts of Indian country. We started in Oklahoma, where Riley Logsdon and Chris Coburn of the Cheyenne & Arapaho Tribes Community Development Corporation are helping launch a Native CDFI.
• 3:27
  Brian Edwards: Their model starts inside the tribe with the goal of building a lending institution that could eventually stand on its own.
• 3:35
  Riley Logsdon: Yeah. So basically, the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes are two tribes that came together to form of government. Basically, they just wanted to form a financial institution, just like many other tribes have done, to serve their tribal members and provide access to affordable credit technical assistance, hopefully lead to more opportunities for the tribal members.
• 3:55
  Brian Edwards: That's Riley Logsdon from Cheyenne Arapaho CDC, unlike some Native CDFIs that begin as independent nonprofits, this one is growing from a tribally affiliated structure. The tribe is providing early support as the organization worked towards standing on its own. That's according to Chris Coburn, who's the executive director,
• 4:17
  Chris Coburn: By default, if they're not a 501(c)3 yet they're considered an IRC 7871 entity, which is a tribal affiliated nonprofit. The idea is that a few years we will be self sufficient. There's not a lot outside private capital yet, but they are providing a huge amount of operational support for salaries and benefits. And then we just recently left a retail space and we moved into a tribal Service Center in Oklahoma City with with, you know, kind of like a satellite office and meeting space, and really nice area, a lot of conference rooms and things. So we're getting settled here. So they provided that space. So they've really given us everything we need to kind of take off. It's just we need to build the momentum.
• 4:59
  Brian Edwards: Right now, the focus is on small business lending, but Chris said the long term needs go beyond that.
• 5:06
  Unknown: Eventually there's a need, especially in small communities or small tribal groups, for employee lending.
• 5:14
  Unknown: There's a need for consumer lending. Often in Indian Country, there's a ton of predatory lending for people that are lower income. So although predominantly it is business-focused, consumer lending will need to come on to balance it out and also meet the needed community. It's just a question of when we have the capital do so.
• 5:33
  Brian Edwards: The need shows up in the kinds of borrowers they're trying to reach.
• 5:37
  Riley Logsdon: We want to help you be successful in your business. Doesn't matter what stage you are at. We're a lot more open to some of those lower credit or risky loans than a lot of these are. So I think that's kind of where we can slide into the market in some of these rural communities.
• 5:59
  Brian Edwards: In practice, that often means starting before someone is ready for a loan.
• 6:03
  Brian Edwards: That might mean technical assistance, training, helping develop a business plan, or financial literacy, education.
• 6:11
  Brian Edwards: There's a popular saying amongst
• 6:16
  Native CDFIs: "It's never a no, though sometimes it's a not yet."
• 6:21
  Riley Logsdon: Yes, we would like to help you in the future, and we're going to get you to that point,
• 6:26
  Brian Edwards: For Chris, that's where the consumer side of a Native CDFI becomes especially important,
• 6:32
  Chris Coburn: Mainly because the capital is tight, especially in a rural environment. What's plentiful is predatory lending, so giving people an option with a fair interest rate, you want to help people grow their capacity to where they're not desperate they have choices.
• 6:51
  Brian Edwards: The near term goal is to build enough lending activity and trust to become a certified Native CDFI.
• 7:00
  Riley Logsdon: Well, I'd say we definitely want to be a certified CDFI. I think we'd like to have a good relationship with the community and our tribes. Just Just know that we're a place they can come to if they need financial education or if they're ready for business loan.
• 7:15
  Chris Coburn: Certified CDFI by 2030 is very real. Consumer lending within a year is possible. Definitely, within two we just have to do the mechanics of lending, teaching, attracting capital, tracking it, getting audits to build that track record.
• 7:33
  Brian Edwards: That's one path into Native Finance, Building from within a tribal system and growing towards something larger. Not every new Native CDFI is being built the same way. In Hawaii, Olani Lily of Changemakers Community Economic Development is part of a group rethinking what a financial institution can be — starting not with capital, but with community culture and relationships instead.
• 8:04
  Olani Lily: We see CDFI as a tool a means to an end. And so what we are really doing is utilizing all of the colonizers tools in order to best bring resources into our Native communities. And so CDFI was a tool in which we could bring money in and then support businesses, support food infrastructures, really address the needs within our community.
• 8:31
  Olani Lily: So it just sort of made sense.
• 8:31
  Olani Lily: It was a tool that we could put in our toolbox
• 8:39
  Brian Edwards: That approach carries through how they lend.
• 8:42
  Olani Lily: Yeah, so our lending model is very relationship based, and so the application is going through our entrepreneurs program. So once you finish the course, your completed work becomes your application, and then we really look at your ability to reflect entrepreneurs values, and our entrepreneur values are focused on place, people, passion, and then, of course, profit and The end. But profit is not extractive. It is cyclical. And it comes in and out of the community
• 9:27
  Brian Edwards: For change makers and olani, that idea goes beyond lending.
• 9:31
  Olani Lily: We're into relational economy. Relationship is not just human to human relationship, like the tree is an ancestor, the mountain, the ground is an ancestor. Those are all also our relationships, and that's the entirety of this relational economy.
• 9:53
  Brian Edwards: The perspective is shaped by the realities of living in Hawaii.
• 9:58
  Olani Lily: It is the fuel. So to my fire. We weren't always like that. We are now shipping in like 85 to 95% of our food, like everything gets shipped in to us. That's the problem we need to solve, and it's not, it's not sort of like looking forward. It's looking back for the answers. We had the answers before we were over a million population of Native Hawaiians living here in the most isolated part of the world, and we thrived prior to contact. And so it's just about using those systems for the past to rethink about what we want to do today and into the future.
• 10:42
  Brian Edwards: And for Olani, that work isn't just financial, it's also storytelling.
• 10:48
  Olani Lily: It's an ancestral skill set. It's something that has been taught to us, you know, for forever. And we were prior to missionaries coming here, we were an oral tradition, and so we communicated our science, our medicine, our our histories, we bring in people into our communities via our stories.
• 11:16
  Brian Edwards: So I asked her, What does that look like in practice?
• 11:20
  Olani Lily: We on this island have developed a cooperative agricultural infrastructure, including processing of foods grown on our land, packaging, storing. The other thing is, is that we are connecting and supporting our small businesses with affordable housing for their employees, and really focusing on meeting the needs of small business and their employees so that they can continue to hire and our small business economy is strong and will outlast Target and Home Depot and all of those things
• 12:13
  Brian Edwards: Change makers takes a different approach. It's very Hawaii centric, but it's part of the same movement.
• 12:21
  Brian Edwards: Native CDFIs aren't all built alike, but they all reflect the communities that they serve in the Northeast. The need is already there, but the infrastructure hasn't quite caught up. Alexander brave journey Sterling of Turtle Island community, capital and Rhode Island is working to change that.
• 12:45
  Alexander Sterling: I have been working in tech and solar renewable energy development on both residential and utility scale, and when I moved back to the East Coast after living in California for over a decade, I started reconnecting with my own tribe. I live here in Rhode Island, which is the land of the Narragansett and as I was working in sort of those communities, I was coming at it from the sustainability lens, this idea of, you know, renewable energy is going to get us ahead. This is how our communities are going to get out of the technical debt and the cost of being in some of the highest hierarchy energy communities around in the United States. And then I was looking for who was funding it, and a lot of it was federal funding.
• 13:37
  Alexander Sterling: And then obviously, the election happened, and with the transition, we started seeing the early impacts of changes in that federal funding environment on the types of capital that were available to sustain those projects. So I went ahead and I took off my solar developer hat, and I put on my financing and fundraising hat, and I started trying to move that financial capital into the community.
• 14:11
  Brian Edwards: That shift quickly revealed something bigger.
• 14:14
  Alexander Sterling: We identified something like $180 million worth of investable opportunities, and I know that is a tiny fraction of what is actually out there, because most of the businesses that we encounter, they've never heard of a Native CDFI. There hasn't been one for them to work with, and they're only getting to us because they've previously exhausted every other opportunity or every other option
• 14:43
  Brian Edwards: to reach those businesses. Sterling started building relationships first.
• 14:48
  Alexander Sterling: So our primary method of doing community engagement, community building, power building, narrative shifting, is centered around what we call our Native impact night series. So that's what we do. Bring together our people from our broader community, our Native community, our community of artists, culture bearers and innovators, and then we sit down and have dinner. Every single one we start with a meal, then people have an authentic relationship that starts to form. And there's no better way to create that type of trust than around a meal.
• 15:22
  Brian Edwards: But building something like this without an existing system comes with risk.
• 15:28
  Alexander Sterling: I started this organization by betting my retirement that the strength of Native entrepreneurship in the northeast and mid Atlantic was going to pay incredible dividends, and so far, it is working, but it's a hard road to do things like this without the institutional support that comes from having the backing of a municipality, a tribal government or the federal government. So we've just had to be scrappier. We've had to be more flexible. We've had to be in more rooms, and I did 50,000 miles of travel last year.
• 16:07
  Alexander Sterling: That's exhausting and it's also invigorating. But I miss my family when I'm on the road
• 16:14
  Brian Edwards: For Alexander, the risk is substantial and also very personal. I asked him why he's doing this,
• 16:23
  Alexander Sterling: Because I believe that a better world is possible. Because I have three kids, I know the world that I grew up in and the challenges that I had to face in order to be accepted, to get hired, to have opportunity to end up in the place that I am now, and to have the luxury of having a 401, K that I could cash out. I don't want them to have to fight that hard. So if I have to put in a little extra legwork now to make sure that in 20 years, the economy that they get to grow up in is one that recognizes their potential for excellence, it's one that sees them as investable opportunities, and has opportunity for them to actually succeed in it.
• 17:11
  Brian Edwards: The Native CDFI movement didn't grow because one model fit every community. It grew because Native leaders built institutions that reflected the realities, values and priorities of their own people. That's what we heard in this episode in Oklahoma, in Hawaii and in the northeast, different places, different approaches, but the same work building financial institutions where they don't exist, and in some cases, building them from nothing. Next time on difference makers 3.0 we're going to California, the next front for Native CDFI expansion.
• 17:50
  Brian Edwards: California is one of the largest Native populations in the country and a mature financial ecosystem, but there's only a handful of Native CDFIs, three certified Native CDFIs and some others that are emerging. We're going to look at what it takes to expand Native led access to capital at that scale. What changes if those institutions can connect to the broader system already moving money across the state.
• 18:22
  Brian Edwards: Difference makers 3.0 is a co production of the Native CDFI network and tribal business news thanks to Pete Upton and his team at the Native CDFI network, Kristen Wagner, Chantal, Hogan, Pamela, boveen, Jody Fisher and Stephanie Prater, of course, thanks to the Native story lab team, especially Kristin Lilya, a proud citizen of the Bois Forte Band of Chippewa. She's our project manager, wrangler in chief, and on the ground recording expert. Thanks also to Rich Tupica, who's kind of becoming our podcast guru and post production helper. And he also helps get rid of all my uhs and ums as always. Thanks to Elyse Wild, she's working behind the mic this season as our sound editor and podcast Maven. Check the show notes for links and more. Thanks for listening. See you next time.