Latest / Rusty's Garage / Neal Bates - Part 2

Transcript

Neal Bates - Part 2 · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:20
  G'day, it's Rusty here.
• 0:21
  All suited up, strapped in for part two of my convo with Australian Rally Championship Hall of Famer, Neil Bates.
• 0:29
  If you've hit the start button on this one before taking in part one, hit the kill switch and jump back into that one in the Rusty's library.
• 0:37
  You'll learn how the Bates brothers learned to drive on the suburban roads around Canberra before the housing estates were even occupied.
• 0:45
  We'll be right back.
• 0:46
  winning a competition that would change his life, and how, for a time, it might have been a career in touring cars despite his true love of rally.
• 0:57
  How nervous he was when Toyota asked him to race on the conservative side at Bathurst, but his co-driver demanded he go hard, working two jobs to make it to the start line.
• 1:09
  How pace notes work.
• 1:11
  and how Coral Taylor initially turned down an offer to navigate for him, and much more.
• 1:17
  We begin part two on some special cars he's managed to keep, and a Celica that helped etch his name in the ARC record books.
• 1:30
  I want to come back to Possum because I think that's an important chapter to deal with that I know Rally fans and audiences would love to know more about.
• 1:38
  Before coming upstairs to your office today with no computer to... Well, there is an iPad.
• 1:44
  There is an iPad.
• 1:45
  Okay.
• 1:46
  Let's not play it down too much.
• 1:48
  We did walk past a couple of very memorable cars.
• 1:51
  And am I right in saying among them is your Celica that won the first championship?
• 1:57
  Is that downstairs?
• 1:58
  Yeah, the ST185 down there, which is the car that won the first Australian Rally Championship, which was in, you know, it's interesting you talk about Coral.
• 2:06
  Coral started in 1993.
• 2:08
  We won the 93, the 94 and the 95 Australian Rally Championship.
• 2:11
  So you could probably say there was, you know.
• 2:13
  Something in that.
• 2:14
  Something in that.
• 2:19
  you know, car that won the first championship and, you know, I'm lucky enough to have all the cars that I won championships in and, you know, now Harry and Laws have started winning championships.
• 2:28
  This whole thing's getting much harder because...
• 2:30
  The Bites Museum.
• 2:31
  Yeah, we got... All of a sudden it's becoming a bit expensive to have all these cars.
• 2:36
  So we'll see how that goes in the future.
• 2:39
  But certainly I've got all the cars that I won championships in.
• 2:42
  So I've got the ST185.
• 2:45
  I've got the ST205, which I won...
• 2:48
  The Haviland car?
• 2:49
  Yeah, which I won the, finished the 94 championship and won the 95 championship and also won Target Tasmania in that car.
• 2:58
  And then also I've got the S2000 car, which we won the 2008 Australian Rally Championship in.
• 3:03
  Brilliant.
• 3:04
  It was a pretty long gap there.
• 3:05
  Yeah, no, that's good.
• 3:08
  We're on leading here with that first car.
• 3:11
  What'd that mean to the boy from Canberra who'd been inspired by the likes of Ari Vartman sliding it sideways around events here in your hometown to be in the record books as an Australian Rally Champion?
• 3:25
  How much did that first title mean?
• 3:27
  Yeah, that meant a lot because really I should have won the championship in 91.
• 3:35
  But there was a bit of a thing with Subaru and Rob Herridge and where they crashed out of the last round and then...
• 3:48
  There was a rule back then about you could be held in control to fix an exhaust, which they said they had a broken exhaust while the service crew went up there and fixed it.
• 3:58
  But that's in history.
• 3:59
  But, you know, that was something that I was pretty bitter about at the time.
• 4:04
  I get on famously with Rob these days.
• 4:06
  But, you know, so to miss out on that and then to actually finally do it in 93 was certainly pretty exciting at the time.
• 4:17
  Coral, when she delivers the co-driving stuff, is just unflappable and you need a voice that you can kind of concentrate on too.
• 4:28
  She's got this sort of, I think to your words before, this very calm delivery and so on.
• 4:37
  She's a very organised person, we know that, but she does have –
• 4:43
  out of the car where funny stuff happens.
• 4:46
  So Molly's told me about going to their place in Sydney and, you know, open the microwave.
• 4:51
  You might find a cup of coffee in there that she's heated and forgotten about or something.
• 4:55
  It'd be a cup of tea.
• 4:56
  Cup of tea, would it?
• 4:58
  Cup of tea, sorry.
• 4:59
  And she's notorious on occasion for losing room keys.
• 5:03
  Is that right?
• 5:04
  He's shaking his head.
• 5:05
  Now, you've had to climb through windows and all sorts, haven't you?
• 5:09
  Yeah, when I look at it, you know,
• 5:12
  The best story with that was at a... Was it Tessie?
• 5:15
  Yeah, a rally Tess.
• 5:17
  It wasn't Target Tasmania.
• 5:18
  It was a tarmac rally run out of Burnie.
• 5:21
  And we're staying in this little motel in Burnie.
• 5:26
  And they had the CAMS award for the Australian Rally Championship.
• 5:33
  And so...
• 5:37
  A few things happen.
• 5:38
  One, I think the first scenario was a guy that we know was in Tassie, had his son with him.
• 5:47
  We'd gone out for dinner.
• 5:49
  He'd left his glasses at the restaurant.
• 5:51
  He'd gone back to the hotel with his...
• 5:54
  Son realised he'd left his glasses there.
• 5:56
  His son had gone to bed, so he whizzed down to grab the glasses.
• 6:02
  In the meantime, his son has woken up and gone, Oh, we've nailed it.
• 6:09
  So he comes to the room, bangs on the door, got this child here, whatever.
• 6:14
  So that's number one when we've woken these people up.
• 6:19
  So then we...
• 6:23
  Do our recce.
• 6:24
  We fly over to Melbourne.
• 6:27
  We go to the CAMS Awards.
• 6:30
  Oh, this is a mission.
• 6:31
  You had to get a plane and everything, didn't you?
• 6:32
  So we then got Bob Jane's helicopter to Moorabbin Airport.
• 6:39
  So we've gone in this multi-million dollar heli and then we've got to Moorabbin and we're walking out and I go, imagine if it was that plane.
• 6:49
  That was it.
• 6:49
  So it was a single-seater four, like a four, sorry, four-seater single-engine thing.
• 6:58
  Like a Learjet job or a prop?
• 7:01
  Prop.
• 7:01
  We're talking a Cessna that we're flying.
• 7:05
  And Mark Stacey was with us as well.
• 7:08
  Legendary co-driver.
• 7:09
  Yeah, we're talking about the news as we go down in Bass Street.
• 7:15
  Most of the crews won't start the rally because they're all in the middle of Bass Strait, bobbing up and down.
• 7:23
  So you've got to fly this back at night time, is that right?
• 7:25
  So this was at 2 o'clock in the morning.
• 7:27
  So we finally get back there and then it's like 3 o'clock in the morning or something.
• 7:37
  Then so go to get in the room.
• 7:38
  Coral's got a bag and she's going through.
• 7:43
  I'm going, you are kidding me.
• 7:45
  No key.
• 7:46
  No key.
• 7:51
  So then I go around and the window is open, but it's a bit high up.
• 7:57
  So I'm climbing up a tree trying to get up to this window.
• 8:00
  Like a thief.
• 8:01
  Like a thief.
• 8:02
  And then the security guy comes around, shines a torch on me.
• 8:06
  What are you doing?
• 8:07
  Trying to get in the maroon.
• 8:08
  Yeah.
• 8:10
  So then he takes me to, and this is a mum and dad run hotel, so he takes me to their thing, knock on the door, and then get a key, get in, done.
• 8:25
  So then we win the rally.
• 8:27
  Yeah.
• 8:29
  Back then there used to be big parties after rallies.
• 8:32
  I never went out as a youngster, but I probably made up for that.
• 8:37
  A couple of years then?
• 8:37
  After parties and rallies.
• 8:38
  They were at legendary parties, mate.
• 8:39
  I've been to a couple of them.
• 8:40
  Yes, yeah.
• 8:41
  So then, you know, it's probably two in the morning again, whatever,
• 8:46
  Yeah, and before we went out, everyone's going, Coral got the key, got the key, which he's going, got the key.
• 8:54
  But one of the guys, you know, wasn't feeling well or whatever, so Coral dropped him back.
• 9:01
  While she was back there, went to the bathroom, whatever.
• 9:04
  Walked out without the key?
• 9:06
  We didn't know that.
• 9:07
  So she walks out, no key.
• 9:08
  So get back there at 2 in the morning again.
• 9:12
  And I just said, I am not knocking on this guy's door again.
• 9:15
  Like, I've seen him in his jocks two nights in a row.
• 9:19
  I don't need to see him in his jocks the third night.
• 9:22
  So then we go, righto, we're sleeping in the car.
• 9:26
  So then we're in a Land Cruiser out the front.
• 9:29
  This is tassie.
• 9:29
  But it's tassie.
• 9:30
  It's freezing.
• 9:32
  But we don't want to start the car up because it's a little motel where you park out the front and wake everyone up.
• 9:39
  So I just go, oh, fuck.
• 9:42
  So I go down, bash on the door.
• 9:45
  You're not going to believe this.
• 9:46
  You're not.
• 9:46
  And I said, there's good news and there's bad news.
• 9:50
  I said, we don't have the key again.
• 9:52
  But I said, the good news is we're going home tomorrow.
• 9:56
  So he gave me a key.
• 9:58
  And then when we went to check out, his wife said that...
• 10:02
  He will forever sleep with Coral.
• 10:04
  I can't remember what room number, room 19 key under his pillow.
• 10:08
  Great yarn, great yarn.
• 10:09
  We love Coral.
• 10:10
  Hey, I work with Shane Jacobson, Kenny, famous actor in a couple of different capacities.
• 10:16
  He says for me to ask you about Ricky, I think, in WA.
• 10:21
  He's done a couple of ARC events as a driver.
• 10:24
  And you and Coral very kindly took him in and on reconnaissance were showing him the ropes.
• 10:31
  I think maybe helping him with a bit of – Coral might have been helping him with pace notes and so on.
• 10:35
  And he says, in the recce car, he was like wide-eyed because you were going faster in the recce car than he reckons he would have gone in the actual rally car.
• 10:46
  He is such a funny guy.
• 10:48
  I remember that.
• 10:49
  And we were just cruising along in the forest doing recce, although I probably do say maybe reccees were a little bit faster back than what they are these days.
• 10:59
  But, yeah, you never laugh so much when you spend 10 minutes with him.
• 11:05
  And I remember when he did the rally at Calder and, you know, the results came out and there was a couple of people behind him and he goes,
• 11:14
  God, I mentioned how they feel.
• 11:20
  As only he can do.
• 11:22
  You've got written on some notes here, which have been very, very good to prompt me, to remind me about motorbikes.
• 11:29
  And there was some early stuff with you around dirt bikes in school.
• 11:33
  So you've always had a little bit of a love of the two-wheel stuff.
• 11:36
  I don't know if you can remember, but you took us back in the RPM days on a really cool dirt bike adventure around here.
• 11:43
  I think we ended up down towards...
• 11:45
  Bateman's Bay from memory.
• 11:46
  I might have run out of fuel at one point.
• 11:49
  But the thing that sticks in my mind about that yarn, and we turned it into a bit of a longer piece, and I think Greg Murphy and maybe Stephen Richards were a part of it, Scott Young, the producer, I think, said something along the lines of, right, we want to do something...
• 12:04
  that will really test them, that might be a bit funny or whatever, and you go, I've got just the place.
• 12:09
  And you took us to this hill.
• 12:10
  I don't know where it was, but it may as well have been the dirt bike version of Mount Everest.
• 12:18
  The one thing I remember, because I lent you, I had two bikes at the time.
• 12:22
  Did you loan me?
• 12:22
  I had a deal with Yamaha at the time, and I had two bikes, and I lent you my WR250, which was the two-stroke one, and I had my WR250 four-stroke.
• 12:35
  What did I do to it?
• 12:36
  I remember coming around the corner because...
• 12:40
  I wouldn't have said that my riding skills, you know, when you look compared to a Darrell Beattie or a whoever, my riding skills were probably average.
• 12:49
  But I will say I was probably slightly better than one Greg Russ.
• 12:53
  You were a lot better than me, a lot better.
• 12:55
  And I remember coming around the corner, like a really steep left-hander, going up a really steep hill, and my WR250 was cartwheeling back down the hill towards me.
• 13:05
  Oh!
• 13:07
  Oh, I'm sorry, mate.
• 13:08
  I'm sorry.
• 13:09
  Do you still enjoy a bit of two-wheel stuff or not so much nowadays?
• 13:11
  Look, I still have a motorbike, but I cannot tell you the last time I went riding.
• 13:15
  I do a lot of mountain biking these days and probably it's just a bit easier, a bit quicker, a bit, you know.
• 13:22
  It's a time thing, isn't it?
• 13:24
  It's a time thing.
• 13:24
  And so, you know, as I say, I can't tell you the last time I went motorbike riding, but if I hopped on one, I would still enjoy it for sure.
• 13:31
  today.
• 13:32
  You brought up Possum Bourne before.
• 13:34
  That chapter of you guys in the Australian rally scene was amazing.
• 13:39
  I mean, crazy to think, as you and I sit here, it's been just over 20 years since his passing.
• 13:46
  And I can recall being here at the ARC round in Canberra and sort of learning of the...
• 13:53
  not his passing at that stage, but the severity of obviously what was unfolding and Cody Crocker and Dean Herridge being quite understandably quite flat and so on.
• 14:04
  That chapter for you guys, you know, to think that this Kiwi legend had come across with a good car, you're going toe-to-toe.
• 14:13
  But it always struck me that in Service Park...
• 14:16
  it seemed like a friendly rivalry.
• 14:18
  You guys actually got on pretty good.
• 14:20
  I'm sure when the helmets went on, it was a different deal, but it seemed like this mutual respect thing.
• 14:25
  What was it like and how did that rivalry slash friendship grow initially?
• 14:31
  Yeah, look, rallying has always been a very friendly sport when you look at it compared to circuit racing, you know, like so when they would come to Canberra, they'd come...
• 14:43
  Pardon me, to our workshop and do things and they'd come around home for dinner and, you know...
• 14:51
  Possum and I got on very, very well.
• 14:53
  We were very similar people.
• 14:55
  We had a huge passion for trucks, which was a little bit of a hobby between us outside rallying.
• 15:01
  Which he still loved now, yeah.
• 15:03
  And I remember when he got his new Volvo, and it was for the Forest Rally, and I got my first Peterbilt and we went over there.
• 15:12
  And I saw Mark Stacey in the main street of...
• 15:17
  Nanup, when we went for testing and he saw the Peterbilt and he goes, he just started laughing.
• 15:22
  He said, oh, Possum is going to be so pissed because he sort of looked at this truck and thought, shit, I think he's outdone Possum.
• 15:29
  Possum, okay.
• 15:30
  So, yeah, look, we had an amazing relationship.
• 15:33
  We got on incredibly well, you know.
• 15:35
  And I often think, you know, unfortunately when he died we were building the Group NP car, which he was all for because he understood the sport very well.
• 15:45
  He understood what needed to happen and he saw that the only way we could get back into the sport was with this Group NP car.
• 15:54
  And, you know, we had such a hard time after he was...
• 16:02
  passed away with that car trying to get freedoms and trying to get it the same as the other cars, it was such a tough time with that car to start with.
• 16:11
  So he would have been in your corner a bit in that process.
• 16:13
  He would have been in our corner and understood it and seen the bigger picture.
• 16:17
  Gotcha.
• 16:18
  Whereas it was taken over then by people within Subaru and Greg Valletta or whatever, and they were just so quiet
• 16:29
  cautious in, you know, any freedom that they might give us and argued every point to the nth degree, whereas Possum would have understood it and said... From a sporting point of view.
• 16:38
  From a sporting point of view and said, no, they need that because of this.
• 16:42
  You know, so, you know, yeah, look, as rivals, there was times when I hated him, but, you know...
• 16:50
  He was bloody hard to beat.
• 16:53
  He beat me more than what I beat him, which was, you know, disappointing.
• 16:56
  And, you know, I look back at that a few things.
• 16:59
  One is...
• 17:00
  When people always look and they look at me and they look at Toyota, they always think, oh, Toyota, you've always had these huge budgets and how lucky you are, but it's actually quite the opposite.
• 17:12
  Toyota are very conservative.
• 17:14
  They spend a very small amount on motor racing in general.
• 17:19
  They're very...
• 17:22
  they're very wise with what they do.
• 17:25
  And I've only...
• 17:26
  I always knew that Possum had a bigger budget, but I've found out since and over the years that I think their budget was like five times bigger than ours.
• 17:36
  So they always had a very good budget.
• 17:39
  And when I look at it, I probably should have won a couple of championships during that period, but I was...
• 17:45
  sponsored by Dunlop at the time.
• 17:47
  Their tyre wasn't good enough for a world rally car, but I was too loyal to them to get rid of them and move to Michelin, which Possum had Pirellis at the time.
• 17:59
  So there was a whole lot of things then when I sit back and look at it now.
• 18:04
  But you've got to remember I came from...
• 18:06
  Very, very humble backgrounds, learnt a lot of, you know, I'm a hell of a lot.
• 18:11
  And loyalty is an important thing to you, mate, isn't it?
• 18:13
  Yeah, I'm a hell of a lot stronger person these days than what I was a lot of the times along the way because I was always trying to do the right thing and always trying to help people and that was at times to my detriment.
• 18:29
  How did his passing affect you?
• 18:31
  Yeah, it was definitely very tough.
• 18:36
  As I say, we were very, very good friends.
• 18:38
  And I remember going to the funeral and being incredibly emotional and upset.
• 18:46
  And it's someone that I'd spent the last...
• 18:50
  10 plus years of my life with, you know, for a huge amount of the time.
• 18:55
  And, you know, and as I say, you know, we all, you know, we used to sit down for, you know, at rallies for hours and talk trucks and workshops and life and, you know, all those sorts of things.
• 19:10
  So all of a sudden there's a hole there that you don't have.
• 19:16
  For me, the kind of, not zenith, I wouldn't say that, but it really sticks strongly in my mind.
• 19:23
  You may not remember, but in 2000, you took myself and Mark Osler out to a test stage prior to Rally Melbourne.
• 19:32
  I reckon we're out Yarra Valley somewhere.
• 19:35
  Yeah, that was in the World Rally car, yeah, and Crompton was there as well that day.
• 19:39
  Yeah, and that was my first chance.
• 19:42
  We'll dive into some of the cars in a bit more detail here.
• 19:47
  I can remember riding alongside you thinking, this is the most...
• 19:50
  out of control and yet in control experience.
• 19:54
  I could remember because I could see the way you worked the wheel, but if I looked out the window, it was like you were going to be in the trees in a heartbeat.
• 20:01
  So you had this WRC-spec Corolla.
• 20:05
  He had this ProDrive-spec Subaru.
• 20:08
  I mean, that was an iconic period for the sport, mate, really, wasn't it?
• 20:11
  With two guys at a good stage of their careers, you know, you somewhat argue peak of their powers going at it, you know?
• 20:18
  Yeah, look, it was a very intense battle for a lot of years.
• 20:23
  And people often talk about the best period of rallying and all that.
• 20:28
  Look, for Possum and I, that was probably the best period of rallying for us.
• 20:33
  But when you look at it as a sport and you look now, really there was only two of us most of the time.
• 20:39
  Mitsubishi were there sometimes.
• 20:41
  That's a personal answer, not a sporting answer.
• 20:43
  We've dunked them with Ed and whatever.
• 20:49
  As I say, they were amazing cars.
• 20:52
  It was an amazing spectacle.
• 20:53
  It was very, very good for rallying from a spectacle point of view, but from a competition point of view, when I look now, there was only two people that could win and that was Possible and myself.
• 21:03
  So it was probably, when you look back now, probably a little bit of a selfish era as well.
• 21:10
  But, yeah, incredibly glad to have been part of it and driven those cars because people still say, what's your favourite car or what's the most awesome car?
• 21:23
  And it has to be a world rally car because, like, when you look at torque, they had 800-odd Newton metres of torque, which was V8 supercar torque figures.
• 21:33
  And, you know, I remember the first time I drove a V8 supercar, I...
• 21:37
  sort of accelerated and thought it had good power but... Not like a real rally car.
• 21:43
  It wasn't blown away and I also thought the braking was pretty crap when you compared it to a world rally car.
• 21:49
  And when you talk about going for a passenger ride as you did...
• 21:53
  I think it's pretty difficult to comprehend how much grip these things have on a loose surface.
• 22:01
  I remember the first time I went circuit racing, Wayne Bell said to me, because he'd race HQs and stuff, he said, just be careful because you'll think you can brake much later because you're on tar and that, he goes, but you're...
• 22:13
  you'll be shocked at how good braking is on rally cars in comparison.
• 22:18
  Wow.
• 22:19
  And it rang very true.
• 22:20
  True.
• 22:21
  Cool piece of advice.
• 22:22
  Let's delve into a couple of the cars, if we can.
• 22:25
  Firstly, apologies for sharing a couple of personal stories here, but they're magic memories in my life.
• 22:33
  Fresh out of high school, a young Greg Rust goes to WRC in Perth.
• 22:38
  It's the first time I've ever been to an international motorsport event of any kind.
• 22:42
  I was blown away by it, by how well run it was, how good the roads were and so on.
• 22:49
  And my overarching memory, mate, was regularly coming into the TTE, Team Toyota Europe Service Park, and you were driving, correct me if I'm wrong here, was it the ST165?
• 22:59
  Was that the car that you drove?
• 23:01
  I mean, Carlos Sainz has that famous rollover where Louis Moyer's helmet's half out the window.
• 23:06
  UR Kankinen had driven for them, and you were there, mate.
• 23:09
  Yeah, yeah, that was the first time I ever drove.
• 23:12
  I drove for Toyota Team Europe in that event in an ST165, which... What was that thing like?
• 23:17
  Look, the car was amazing, but a few things in that.
• 23:22
  One, I wasn't ready for it.
• 23:27
  on a psychological one of you.
• 23:29
  My driving was very good, but I would still came from where you run your own team, you look after the car.
• 23:38
  And when you talk, we spoke about the 185 in the earlier days, we were building road cars into rally cars.
• 23:46
  These were proper rally cars with...
• 23:49
  with um dna that was yeah yeah like there was nothing standard in them and i remember just sidetracked one tick is uh um i'm just trying to think of his name uh world rally driver
• 24:08
  Bjorn Waldegard was out here to do something and he had to drive a My185 and he goes, yes, yes, we're so excited because Bjorn Waldegard's driven our ST185.
• 24:21
  We go, what do you think?
• 24:22
  And he goes, yes, yes, it's a nice road car.
• 24:27
  We sort of go, oh, right.
• 24:29
  And so when I drove the 165... You understood why.
• 24:33
  I understood why because, you know, here I am looking after it over the rough and, you know, being careful on the gearbox but it had a dog box that, you know, the faster you change gears, the better.
• 24:45
  And, look, I did some reasonably good times in that event but, you know, I didn't know enough about...
• 24:53
  the whole thing then to be as good as what I could have actually been.
• 24:59
  I don't know if I've got the year right.
• 25:01
  Did something happen to you, Har, and then certainly that incident for Carlos, and then all of a sudden the pressure swung your way about you actually need to finish.
• 25:07
  You guys need to finish this rally.
• 25:09
  Is that what happened?
• 25:10
  Might not have been the same year.
• 25:11
  I don't know whether they had manufacturer points or whatever then, but obviously Carlos had gone out of that rally when he rolled for the third time.
• 25:21
  Time, hmm.
• 25:22
  And then they were very, very keen for us to finish.
• 25:26
  But, look, to tell you the truth, I was probably driving conservative enough that I was going to finish anyway.
• 25:33
  But, yeah, I remember.
• 25:36
  And this is a telling thing.
• 25:38
  I remember at one of the stages where Carlos rolled, there was a tarmac super special in some school grounds in Perth.
• 25:46
  And, yeah.
• 25:48
  Murray Coote was walking down and I said, watch this.
• 25:53
  And I just revved it up and dumped the clutch and did a burnout to warm the tyres up.
• 25:58
  Murray had come from a Mazda where you couldn't even do that on gravel.
• 26:03
  I had come from a car where you couldn't do that and all of a sudden you're there, you can rev this thing up and dump the clutch on tarmac and nothing breaks.
• 26:12
  And I remember before the stage, Murray being there and we were laughing, sort of going...
• 26:18
  Holy shit, that's... Next level.
• 26:20
  Next level.
• 26:20
  Yeah, how good.
• 26:22
  Before we move to 205, which is downstairs and has got some special history around Targa and everything else, as you said before, it kind of leads, mate, to the relationship with TTE at this stage.
• 26:35
  There was...
• 26:37
  There was opportunities with them, and I think you and Coral went to Indonesia, and probably the way that we can do this ride is that it didn't necessarily work out the way you imagined it would, did it?
• 26:51
  No, look...
• 26:52
  We had an incredibly good relationship with Ove Anderson.
• 26:56
  Yes.
• 26:56
  Mike Breen had an incredibly good relationship with Ove Anderson.
• 27:01
  You know, Mike was a very smart guy and, you know, whenever Team Europe would come over here, he always made sure.
• 27:10
  He looked after Team Europe.
• 27:13
  Ove used to come to Australia quite a bit for holidays and Mike always made sure he had an LS400 Lexus for him.
• 27:20
  And, you know...
• 27:22
  So we had a very good relationship with Ove.
• 27:27
  He had a lot of faith in my driving, as did another guy by the name of Pekka who worked for Toyota Team Europe but as a suspension person from Olands and he'd sat with me a bit in testing and said, this guy's...
• 27:46
  very good, but when I look at that, we went and did it in Indonesia in 97, but that was to go and do a job.
• 27:56
  So Toyota had been banned because of the restrictor in the 205, that was theirs, and they built the Corolla World Rally car, and they over rang and said, look, we have to run two cars in Indonesia, we don't have the budget for it.
• 28:13
  Would you be willing to go over
• 28:16
  do the recce, maybe do a couple of stages and then unfortunately you have a problem.
• 28:22
  Gotcha, gotcha.
• 28:23
  Absolutely.
• 28:24
  Very happy to do that.
• 28:26
  So we went over there and George Donaldson was the team manager back then.
• 28:35
  He was someone who rallied himself with Colin McRae.
• 28:39
  Probably, you know, I don't know what it was with him.
• 28:42
  We sort of had probably a pretty frosty relationship and he didn't particularly want us around.
• 28:51
  So, yeah, there was a whole lot of things that happened there, like no testing, no, you know,
• 28:58
  When we started the first stage, it was raining, it was in Indonesia.
• 29:02
  Oriel had mud tyres.
• 29:03
  They put Z9s on us, which was a high-temperature dry tyre.
• 29:09
  And I'm just going...
• 29:11
  What in the hell, you know?
• 29:12
  It's destined not to work, isn't it?
• 29:13
  Yeah, it's destined not to work.
• 29:15
  So then we went off the road just near the end of the first stage and I said, Coral, the throttle jammed on.
• 29:22
  You know, the one thing I remember about that, we went off the road and we're hanging over this bank and the next minute there was 200 Indonesian people there literally lifting the car back on the road.
• 29:34
  Off the road.
• 29:34
  We continued on.
• 29:35
  So I radioed and said, you know, the throttle stuck on.
• 29:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:40
  Which they came back with a, yeah.
• 29:43
  Okay.
• 29:44
  Good one.
• 29:45
  So then we did the second stage, throttle stuck on again.
• 29:49
  Then we did the third, and they said just get it to the first service.
• 29:54
  Did the third stage, throttle stuck on.
• 29:56
  I actually...
• 29:58
  realised then what it was and it was when the temperature, you know, we're in Indonesia, it's 40 degrees, it's humid, it's hot as and there was something wrong in the map and when the temperature got over 102 degrees...
• 30:15
  It would switch the anti-lag off, but when you have anti-lag, it relies on the butterfly being open and, you know, we're talking 15% or 20% throttle.
• 30:26
  So when it would switch the anti-lag off, it would leave the butterfly open.
• 30:30
  Gotcha, ingestion.
• 30:32
  It's getting air, so it's making power.
• 30:35
  So I've told them this, but they're totally disbelieving of it.
• 30:41
  And then so it had a manual switch on the fan where you could turn it off.
• 30:46
  So when we were sitting in line to go into service, I turned the fan off.
• 30:51
  Waited for it to happen.
• 30:52
  Sure enough, the throttle's sitting on the rev limiter.
• 30:56
  So I just waited until we came into service and it was our time.
• 31:00
  Turned the fan off while I was in the line, drove it in, parked it in the thing and hopped out with the thing sitting there on the rev limiter.
• 31:05
  Rev limiter.
• 31:06
  And there's all these engineers running to...
• 31:08
  Sort it.
• 31:10
  Sort it and all of a sudden they realised it was a real problem.
• 31:15
  So then they actually got us to do a couple more stages just to confirm that that was...
• 31:20
  That was the case and it was fixed and then we're out of that event.
• 31:26
  It's a shame.
• 31:27
  Would there have been some other opportunities with them along the way that perhaps didn't come to be or was it more that... What I sense in you is that you've built... You've continued this unbelievable relationship with them globally and locally, which is a testament to you.
• 31:40
  But...
• 31:41
  It may have been a little catalyst for you to go, okay, well, I'm going to focus on running my own show here and doing what we do.
• 31:49
  Was that...?
• 31:49
  Well, so what happened after that event, because there were so many issues that happened, I spoke to Ove afterwards and they promised me for Rally Australia that I would get a proper test, you know, set the car up how I wanted it, all that sort of stuff.
• 32:06
  And so then when it came...
• 32:09
  Because after that event, I sort of thought, you know, we're better off just running our own car because if they're not going to, if they don't want you there and they're not interested, you know, you're better off just doing it yourself.
• 32:19
  So but Ove spoke to me and said that, you know, I would get the proper test.
• 32:27
  Cool.
• 32:27
  You know, and so we turned up to Rally Australia but Ove wasn't there.
• 32:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:33
  for the initial testing and stuff.
• 32:35
  He turned up for the rally but wasn't there for the testing.
• 32:39
  And so then I went and sat in the forest for two days while Didier Aurel went up and down, up and down, up and down for the test road.
• 32:49
  And you didn't get to drive it?
• 32:50
  And then at about 5 o'clock in the afternoon, I...
• 32:56
  And it was interesting because this Pekka guy actually rang over and said this is what's happening and it's not right.
• 33:03
  So then I did get a couple of runs like a non-dust, but it was really dusty and it was hopeless and Pekka actually sat with me.
• 33:12
  And then, interestingly, they had a bet internally, Pecca and Ove bet that I would get a fastest time in the rally, which I actually didn't.
• 33:20
  But, you know, it was nice that he...
• 33:25
  But then I had the choice because we were keeping that car afterwards.
• 33:28
  That was our car.
• 33:29
  So then I was given the choice because there was some discussions that night about not getting a test.
• 33:35
  So I could go out...
• 33:38
  And do a full day test the next day.
• 33:41
  Or they could go back and totally, because my car was actually the test car, or they could put a new engine, gearbox, driveshafts, completely make the thing brand new.
• 33:53
  Then I would do the rallying keeper.
• 33:54
  And you could choose?
• 33:55
  And I could choose.
• 33:56
  Would you choose?
• 33:57
  I chose...
• 33:58
  Yeah, probably wrongly, I chose to have a new car.
• 34:03
  Gotcha.
• 34:04
  Because, you know, when you look at the cost of the componentry in them and the budget we had, it wasn't, you know, to have, you know, your talking gearboxes worth $150,000 and all that sort of stuff.
• 34:17
  So I chose to have everything new in the car.
• 34:19
  But ironically, you think the miles would have actually been worth it.
• 34:22
  Yeah.
• 34:23
  Wow.
• 34:23
  Yeah, correct.
• 34:24
  Wow.
• 34:33
  They sure are a special breed rally drivers, but what about when you put a group of them together, on dirt, what could possibly go wrong?
• 34:41
  Chris Atkinson talks to Rusty about his time in Global Rallycross.
• 34:45
  They say zero to 100 in under two seconds.
• 34:48
  Like really it was just over that.
• 34:50
  But with the amount of grip we had, like that was still pretty quick.
• 34:54
  And it's more they just keep going.
• 34:55
  You know, you just keep picking gears.
• 34:58
  Basically, you could say you pick gears nearly as fast as you can in when you're accelerating.
• 35:03
  Like you pick a gear, you pick a gear, you pick a gear, you pick a gear, and then you're in six gear flat out.
• 35:08
  It's a shame Chris didn't enjoy it.
• 35:10
  600 plus horsepower, six wild drivers, jumps, mayhem.
• 35:15
  Rusty brings his own airsick bags for rides like that.
• 35:18
  Back to Neil Bates before Rusty turns green just thinking about it.
• 35:23
  Take people just quickly as we go here to Team Toyota Europe.
• 35:27
  I never went to the rally headquarters.
• 35:29
  I got to go with Channel 10 to the Formula One facility in Kelowna.
• 35:32
  Which is the same facility.
• 35:33
  Yeah.
• 35:34
  But, sorry, in rally, guys, I'm talking.
• 35:38
  When I got there for the pre-event launch of the car and to meet Timo Glock and so on,
• 35:44
  they're running a little bit behind and the comms people said to me look just uh go for a wander go down underneath the wind tunnel and and um you'll like it and i go under the wind tunnel really like what the heck is this and when we went down in there there was like this treasure trove of cars mainly rally cars there's a couple of sports cars and things in there as well there was um
• 36:05
  like 1970 spec cars that uva anderson may have have run there was a test mule mr2 in black which would have been group b spec yeah there's some amazing things down there what was it like to you know to sort of see the framework and and the operation and what it was like
• 36:22
  The first time I ever went to a team Europe, you're just totally blown away.
• 36:27
  You know what I mean?
• 36:28
  Like it's just, yeah, a proper, you know, it was my first time of seeing how a proper team and a proper budget and proper factory outfit worked.
• 36:39
  Was and, you know, it just totally blew you away.
• 36:42
  I always remember a story that, because I don't know, you know, and I'm not sure what your memories are, but, you know, the corridor was quite wide and then it went out the back door and they could get an ST185 and it would be doing 100 and... Oh!
• 37:01
  60K or whatever in the corridor before it went back outside.
• 37:05
  So clearly they'd tried that to know that.
• 37:08
  Yes.
• 37:09
  So, yo, but, yo, it was tile floors.
• 37:13
  Yes.
• 37:13
  Yo, just everything.
• 37:15
  Yo, you just could not believe the money we used to, yo.
• 37:19
  And when they came out for...
• 37:21
  Rally Australia, we had a very good relationship with them and, you know, they knew exactly our lack of budget and whatever and they used to have a spare parts bin or pile for us that they would just put in the corner because they'd work out at Kewdale and they'd just put that in the corner.
• 37:39
  And you could help yourself.
• 37:40
  And we could take it at the end of the rally.
• 37:43
  So, you know, they were incredibly helpful to us over a...
• 37:49
  When we had the ST205, he gifted us a brand new engine.
• 37:52
  Wow.
• 37:54
  Because we were doing our own engines at the time and he gave us one of their engines.
• 38:00
  And, yeah, so, yeah.
• 38:02
  And, look, the most amazing thing is we're still dealing with... Today, yeah.
• 38:06
  ...toilet kazoo racing in Europe today.
• 38:10
  And after Western Australia, our engines just went back there for a refresh...
• 38:16
  And, you know, we're doing some stuff.
• 38:18
  Obviously, they're building a Rally 2 program.
• 38:20
  We've been a bit of a guinea pig for some of that.
• 38:22
  Fantastic.
• 38:23
  And, you know, we still have, yeah, an amazing relationship.
• 38:26
  We, you know, even though it's completely different people now, but we've always maintained that relationship, which I suppose, you know, that's a part of our business to, you know, have a relationship with them and understand it.
• 38:39
  But, you know, there's like, you know,
• 38:42
  the people like Norio, who's in charge of their engine department, is the most amazing guy and has been so helpful to us.
• 38:49
  And, yeah, I think they like their poor cousins in Australia.
• 38:53
  That's good.
• 38:54
  That's good.
• 38:54
  Before we get to 205, quickly, Uwe Anderson, a proper legend in the history of the sport.
• 39:02
  What was he like to work with and to have a relationship with?
• 39:05
  Yeah, he was an amazing guy.
• 39:07
  He, as I say, he was very, very...
• 39:12
  Supportive.
• 39:12
  Supportive, incredibly helpful and friendly towards us.
• 39:17
  You know, it gave me several opportunities.
• 39:20
  When I look back at that, I, you know, and I talk about...
• 39:27
  My, as I say, when I look at my upbringing, which is probably similar to quite a few people back then when you try and do these things yourself and on limited budgets and whatever, I probably could have done better with the opportunities that he gave me at various times.
• 39:43
  But, you know, saying that I went to the Race of Champions four times was incomprehensible.
• 39:48
  incredibly competitive for that.
• 39:50
  So I had the speed for sure at times.
• 39:53
  If you have a look, there was a time there when Freddie Loic's first started with Toyota Team Europe.
• 40:00
  There was some talk at the time.
• 40:02
  It was out of...
• 40:03
  You and him?
• 40:05
  Freddie and myself.
• 40:06
  But he was based over there.
• 40:08
  He had some Mulro money.
• 40:11
  He was good.
• 40:13
  When you look at it, they probably made the right choice.
• 40:15
  So I don't hold any regrets or bitterness or anything about that.
• 40:21
  As I say, if I look back at it, I should have understood that.
• 40:27
  the cars, the job, everything a bit better rather than trying to do the right thing.
• 40:31
  205.
• 40:32
  I think you rattled off before from championship success to target success, good-looking thing, and you've been able to keep that car too.
• 40:40
  Tell us a little bit about that one.
• 40:41
  Yeah, I said before that the favourite car to drive was the World Rally car, but probably my favourite car is actually the 205.
• 40:48
  Why?
• 40:50
  Just I love the look of it.
• 40:51
  I had an amazing success in that car, you know, I think in 1995.
• 40:58
  We won every round of the Australian Championship except for Rally Australia.
• 41:03
  We won Target Tasmania in it.
• 41:06
  So, yeah, and it was probably the first proper car that we built because that car has proper Group A cross members, aluminium uprights, like it's a proper, it's the first real rally car that we had as, you know,
• 41:25
  as a WRC or as close as a WRC spec that you're going to get.
• 41:31
  How did you learn all that stuff from your time at TTE and with the guys around you here?
• 41:35
  Many of them are long-termers in Neil Bates Motorsport and so on.
• 41:38
  Were you learning from some of those experiences?
• 41:40
  Oh, right, we could build something like that or we could try something like this and so on, within reason, within budget reason, I suppose.
• 41:45
  Yeah, 100%.
• 41:49
  Because Rally Australia started in Australia.
• 41:51
  So then they were coming, as you said, you know, in the early 90s over to Western Australia, which were over there.
• 41:57
  So we saw what their cars were, how to build them, you know, like... That's how we can do that.
• 42:03
  That's how we can do that.
• 42:05
  And, you know, we have, you know, you look at...
• 42:10
  Us, we're a small operation, but I look at, you know, you look at Daryl, you look at Peter Reynolds who was involved back then, you know, young Sam now, you know, we've got some amazing people who have done some amazing things.
• 42:25
  I look at Ant and, you know, who's just learnt the whole Bosch system and why these new rally cars and...
• 42:32
  is now completely okay with Bosch ECUs and how they work.
• 42:36
  And, you know, we've got some amazing people who have done some amazing things.
• 42:41
  And, you know, sometimes I look...
• 42:45
  Yeah, because when you're inside, you look at what you're doing and go, yeah, that's what we're doing.
• 42:48
  But sometimes when you stop and have a look, we've got some amazing people who are very, very talented.
• 42:54
  Yeah, world class.
• 42:55
  And world class and done some amazing things.
• 42:57
  You know, we do our own body shells, our own wiring, our own cross members, our own suspension arms.
• 43:05
  You know, we do everything ourselves and we've only got...
• 43:09
  six full-time people here so and they all Daryl does the CAD drawings and most of the 86 stuff and overseas rally cars, Sam is a young guy who's an incredibly good fabricator, incredibly good mechanic builds and runs the rally cars Lewis has been amazing in the workshop, he prepares and
• 43:37
  His own heart, his hands on, you know, he's into it like a rat up a drain pipe.
• 43:42
  He's sort of, you know, full on.
• 43:44
  He's a little bit, I suppose, like I was when I was younger.
• 43:48
  You know, you've got Harry who's, you know, probably taking over from Coral's job to a degree these days.
• 43:54
  And, you know.
• 43:57
  Yeah, young Jeremy who started not long ago is doing most of the 86 stuff and coming along in leaps and bounds.
• 44:04
  So, yeah, we've got some amazing people and I look at the work that's done here and then I look at some of the supercar stuff and other stuff and I think it's amazing.
• 44:16
  Where is good?
• 44:18
  If not more so, when you look at the build quality and the evolution of it.
• 44:22
  We've gone through a couple of the cars here, right, from 205.
• 44:26
  When you get to S2000, quite a gap in your championship wins there, but when you get to winning that one, the sport had changed significantly.
• 44:34
  I think we were naturally aspirated cars then.
• 44:37
  It was something totally different, but yet the build quality of that car
• 44:41
  And you are obviously very proud of that Corolla because it did come from here fundamentally, hadn't it?
• 44:45
  Yeah, actually, it's another interesting point when you talk about the S2000 car because that was, we built that car and we were pioneering that and Ove actually came to Australia to have a look at that car and then there was talk of that being an homologated car, possibly
• 45:04
  around the world which Ove was, you know, dealing in all that.
• 45:09
  But unfortunately when he got killed, you know, do I think it would have happened?
• 45:13
  Probably not because when I look at the politics of, you know, Toyota Motorsport worldwide, it was probably something they would have wanted to
• 45:22
  at the time TMG to do, which would have been the right thing.
• 45:25
  The fact you sparked a conversation about it is pretty impressive.
• 45:28
  There was lots of conversations going on about that, but that was a car that we built ourselves.
• 45:34
  They were normally aspirated to litre.
• 45:37
  We did all our own engine development.
• 45:39
  They had 276 horsepower at the flywheel on an engine dyno.
• 45:45
  Sounded sweet too.
• 45:46
  Yeah, it sounded incredibly sweet.
• 45:48
  Look,
• 45:49
  as a category, was probably the worst category ever in the history of the WRC because, yeah, they were incredibly expensive.
• 45:58
  They were highly strung.
• 45:59
  They were, you know, like, yeah, they were hard work, but they were cool guys.
• 46:04
  What did that championship win mean to you when you look back on it now?
• 46:07
  Yeah, that was incredibly cool, you know.
• 46:10
  You know, I'd spent a couple of years with Simon winning the championship and I was very happy for that, to let that be happening and he was very good for the team.
• 46:25
  But I'd probably taken a bit of a back seat because you've got to remember you're running the team, you're trying to drive, you're trying to develop cars, you're trying to, you know, it takes its toll a little bit.
• 46:36
  So was I driving.
• 46:40
  At my absolute capacity then, quite possibly not.
• 46:44
  So what happened in 2008 is, Simon, I think he hit a kangaroo in Canberra, then had an engine problem in Perth and whatever.
• 46:52
  All of a sudden I got a sniff.
• 46:54
  And, you know, all of a sudden I was the Neil Bates of old and I wasn't going to lose that championship and that's what happened.
• 47:02
  Awesome.
• 47:03
  And, you know, I got that absolute intensity and that absolute hunger and the fight and everything back to actually do that and win the championship.
• 47:11
  Very satisfying.
• 47:13
  We're diving all over the place, but I'll complete the kind of car chapter if I can, because you and Coral would have a, you know, as the business continued to grow here, as the boys, Harry and, you know, you son Lewis started to come along in their rallying dream, if you will.
• 47:32
  You kind of dabbled in.
• 47:33
  classics and you built i'm not sure if i'm going to get the the model number right here but you built a 80 or 81 celica ta22 is that right no ra40 sorry ra40 um magnificent thing beautiful sounding thing tell us about that
• 47:49
  Yeah, so when Toyota stopped in 2009, so the global financial crisis had hit and then we had meetings before Christmas and they said it was all good, it was all going to happen.
• 48:07
  So we went away on our holidays and came back and then they said, sorry.
• 48:13
  Wow.
• 48:13
  It's been cut.
• 48:14
  So that was, you know, an incredibly hard time because we thought it was going to happen and had more employees back then, so I had to lay people off and, you know, that was an incredibly tough time.
• 48:23
  You've got people in here who are passionate about the sport and they're sitting in your office crying while you're telling them, unfortunately, they don't have a job and work, you know.
• 48:33
  So, yeah, that was, you know, probably the toughest time for me as a business person, you know, because I've always been...
• 48:41
  I've always had a very good relationship with employees and care about what they're up to.
• 48:48
  You've got to tell them like that.
• 48:49
  And they're sitting in your office crying.
• 48:51
  It's pretty tough going.
• 48:53
  How close did you go from a business point of view?
• 48:56
  Were you confident you could keep it running and going?
• 48:58
  And how difficult was all that?
• 48:59
  Look, the most amazing thing with Toyota is they said to me, okay, here we are, this has happened.
• 49:08
  What do we need to...
• 49:10
  so that you don't go broke as a business.
• 49:14
  And so we came to an agreement on, like me all, and people talk about, which I'm sure we'll talk about sometime, the relationship with Toyota for so many years.
• 49:26
  Probably the reason that's been, they've been incredibly loyal, but so have I.
• 49:30
  Yes.
• 49:30
  I've never looked at them as a piggy bank.
• 49:33
  People look at Toyota and think, oh, yeah, they're huge.
• 49:35
  They've got lots of money.
• 49:37
  take, take, take.
• 49:38
  I've never been like that.
• 49:39
  And so when we're faced with this situation, I was incredibly fair to them.
• 49:44
  They were incredibly fair to me.
• 49:46
  And we continue on as a relationship.
• 49:50
  But we had to then change what we did.
• 49:53
  We
• 49:54
  And as a business, we did a lot more customer cars.
• 49:59
  And then I was missing railing, so we decided to build the RA40 Sleeker, which was a project that we just did in between time over.
• 50:10
  Over 12 months and, you know, there was a couple of things there.
• 50:14
  One, I wanted to continue rallying because I started rallying because I loved it and, you know, all of a sudden and, you know, I was an age then where, you know, to be a factory driver those days were probably gone.
• 50:29
  And so, yeah, I just wanted something that was fun and I could go out and play with.
• 50:37
  Well, what you built was the tip of the hat in a nostalgia sense, but with the build quality that you guys have become renowned for.
• 50:45
  I mean, it is a seriously cool-looking, sounding rear-wheel drive.
• 50:51
  You'd kind of gone full circle in that sense, hadn't you?
• 50:53
  Yeah, I started off in a rear-wheel drive car.
• 50:56
  And look, there was a couple of things for that.
• 50:58
  One, we wanted to build that everyone spoke about Escorts and they were the best car and no one could ever build a car.
• 51:05
  rear-wheel drive car better than an Escort or whatever.
• 51:07
  In that class, yeah.
• 51:08
  In that class.
• 51:09
  So that was a bit of a motivation and, you know, I'd watch the Otago rally in New Zealand and I sort of thought it'd be cool if we built that and then you went and did the Otago rally and beat the Escorts and, you know, so when we built that car, the first rally we ever did was the Calder rally and, you know,
• 51:27
  And that was when they were running the front-wheel drive cars and Eli was there in the Honda.
• 51:32
  And it came down to the last stage to see who won the rally outright out of Eli and myself.
• 51:38
  So all of a sudden we built this classic car and we almost won an ARC round outright.
• 51:43
  So, yeah, it was a pretty cool car straight off the bat.
• 51:47
  And then, you know, we...
• 51:49
  Went over to Otago and ran that car twice, one at both times.
• 51:54
  And, you know, the second year Hayden was there in a BDA and he was slightly quicker than me but I beat him and I remember Richard Mason saying to me because him and Hayden were rivals at the time and he goes, I beat him in a stage or two and he'll probably...
• 52:14
  throw it off the road and Hayden ended up going off the road.
• 52:17
  I'm sure it had nothing to do with me whatsoever, but we went on to win that rally and, you know, that was the second time at Otago.
• 52:24
  So to go there twice and win, it was a very cool thing in a car that, yeah, I remember when I went over there for the first time.
• 52:31
  If you watch the program for that in the pre-event thing, they don't even, other than saying that I came over, they don't even mention me.
• 52:37
  Like when they're talking about who might win or who might whatever.
• 52:41
  Who were the contenders.
• 52:41
  Who were the contenders.
• 52:43
  Yeah.
• 52:44
  Not this goose in a sleeker from Australia.
• 52:46
  So, yeah, so it was pretty cool then to go.
• 52:48
  And I remember I won the first stage by a second a kilometre because you've got to understand the rallying over there.
• 52:55
  It's a one-pass recce.
• 52:57
  They've all done it three million times, but the first stage was actually a closed forest stage and a locked forest.
• 53:05
  So I won that stage by a second a K. And I remember...
• 53:09
  been in the line for the second stage and Jeff David came in.
• 53:13
  I said, oh, what time did you do, thinking that he might be close or whatever, and he goes, not as fast as you.
• 53:19
  And then Derek Asen goes, no one was as fast as you.
• 53:22
  You can go home now.
• 53:24
  Which Derek Asen's a really cool guy.
• 53:27
  And it was just a funny off-the-cuff comment.
• 53:31
  He goes, bugger you, mate.
• 53:34
  If you can, share a little of the stats on that car.
• 53:37
  So what are we talking?
• 53:38
  Twin cam, Toyota engine, obviously.
• 53:41
  Does it run mechanical fuel injection?
• 53:42
  What have you got on that?
• 53:43
  No, it's got carbis.
• 53:44
  So it's an RA40 Sleeker.
• 53:47
  Weighs 1,000 kilo, spot on.
• 53:51
  It's got a Series 1 3SGE engine.
• 53:57
  So it makes 196 horsepower at the wheels.
• 54:00
  It's got Webers.
• 54:01
  It's got a Hollinger...
• 54:03
  H6S, which is a H-pattern Hollinger gearbox.
• 54:07
  It's got a Hilux diff.
• 54:09
  Yeah, when you look at it, it's got Murray shocks in it.
• 54:14
  And I looked at the cars in the Sleeker range and I loved the shape of the TA22.
• 54:21
  But when you look at the RA40 as a car and the rules back then, you couldn't modify front wheel arches and various things, a few things.
• 54:30
  It was homologated with rack and binion steering.
• 54:33
  The distance between the strut towers and the firewall was
• 54:39
  was bigger than any other model, which means you can get the engine back further, which means you have the weight in between the axles better.
• 54:50
  It had big wheel arches so you could run decent suspension travel with 15-inch wheels.
• 54:56
  And, yeah, so that's the car we chose.
• 54:58
  And as a road car, they're an ugly car, but as a rally car, once you put the flares on it and the rear spoiler and stuff, it's a cool car.
• 55:07
  Let's go supercars here, firstly.
• 55:10
  Where were you when you drove?
• 55:11
  You talked about the Brock story before, which was amazing, but in a supercars chapter, I mean, there's things like driving with Paul Wheel that come to mind, Glenn Seaton, among others.
• 55:20
  Where was the first time you drove one?
• 55:22
  You talked about your impressions before.
• 55:24
  What car was it that you first drove?
• 55:26
  The first supercar I drove was Glen Seton's Falcon, which was... Winton?
• 55:31
  No, Calder.
• 55:32
  Calder.
• 55:32
  Calder once again, and that was a Channel 10 day when Channel 10 ran an end-of-year party because obviously Channel 10 was big in motorsport back then, and so we had the World Rally car there, and we were doing rally rides.
• 55:46
  They had the supercars over there, and we were doing rides around Calder, and then...
• 55:52
  And then I'd taken Glenn for a ride in the rally car and he said, oh, do you want to come over and have a drive with a supercar?
• 55:57
  Fantastic.
• 55:58
  What did you think?
• 55:59
  Yeah, like I thought it was really cool.
• 56:01
  But as I say, a couple of things that, you know, people talk about supercars and they look at them as the holy grail and, you know, I'll probably get shit canned for this.
• 56:11
  But, you know, when you drive a supercar, what other car in the world do you need
• 56:21
  a light on the dash and some beeps in the ear to tell you you've locked the brake up because they've got no feel.
• 56:30
  So the power was amazing.
• 56:32
  It was cool to drive one but I thought they brake like shit.
• 56:36
  I thought they turn like shit.
• 56:38
  You know what I mean?
• 56:39
  Like they're pretty agricultural and particularly back then they probably improved over the years.
• 56:44
  But, you know, people say describe a supercar and I say it's something with all this power with no feel.
• 56:51
  and it's got a squeal in your ear and a light on the dash to tell when you lock the brakes up.
• 56:57
  And as a co-driver back then, that was the hardest thing to get.
• 57:02
  Limited miles.
• 57:03
  When you weren't driving around, you look at a co-driver job back then and it's changed a bit these days because they do a lot more testing and they're running Super 2 and they've got co-driver sessions, all that sort of stuff, but back then you turned up and,
• 57:19
  You know, the main driver would go round, round, round, round, and they'd say, oh, jump in, don't lock a tyre, don't do this, don't do that, but be as close to the main driver as you can.
• 57:28
  And that was what the job was.
• 57:31
  What was the lure for you, like the chance to go and do Bathurst?
• 57:33
  And I think you and Rick drive together in one of them as well.
• 57:35
  Yeah, we did drive the last Bathurst we did actually was in Tony Noski's Falcon.
• 57:40
  Fantastic.
• 57:40
  And it was sponsored by NXS, and Rick and I did that together.
• 57:44
  And Rick actually did a year of supercars.
• 57:50
  That's going to do my head in there.
• 57:53
  It's not Bob Forbes, wasn't it?
• 57:55
  No, no.
• 57:56
  WPS?
• 57:58
  No, Colorscan.
• 57:59
  Colorscan, well done.
• 58:00
  Colorscan.
• 58:00
  Yep.
• 58:01
  So he drove that car for 12 months and, you know, did very well in some events, had a few issues and problems, I think, in the wet.
• 58:08
  And one Baffers, he was second fastest in the warm-up in the wet.
• 58:12
  And, you know, so, yeah, I like all those things, you know, you've been in the right car at the right time and all that sort of stuff.
• 58:19
  But, look, you know, I really enjoyed doing that.
• 58:22
  You know, I was well aware of my job and I never...
• 58:28
  You could say I never stuffed up.
• 58:30
  We could talk about the 2001 when I drove with Wayne Gardner and, you know, I still...
• 58:37
  Probably a little bit annoyed about that to a degree because we were on pole.
• 58:42
  Wayne Gardner came in, handed the car over to him in the lead and then I'm not sure who was commentating at the time and they go, oh, he stalled it under the pressure because when they let it down but what people didn't know is when Wayne Gardner brought the car in, it had no clutch so I had to turn it off.
• 58:59
  put it in gear and started in gear to get out of the pits.
• 59:04
  And then I only did a few laps and the clutch was disintegrating so I kept losing drive.
• 59:11
  And then Greg Crick punted me up the top, not his fault because he came up behind me as the thing lost drive and he hit me up the backside and spun and I ended up in the sand at McPhil of me and then got it out of there and did a couple more laps and then expired completely the clutch and...
• 59:29
  I think, yeah, to the outside world, they thought that I'd wreck Wayne Gardner's Baffist, but the simple fact is the car was doomed when he came in, handed over to me, and, yeah, what they should have done was probably parked it in the pits then, but they sent me out to look like a goose.
• 59:45
  Which car was that?
• 59:45
  I'm trying to remember which one.
• 59:46
  That was Falcon.
• 59:47
  Were we talking Stone Brothers?
• 59:49
  No.
• 59:49
  No, no, no, Seaton.
• 59:50
  Seaton, Glen Seaton.
• 59:51
  Sorry, sorry.
• 59:52
  Yeah.
• 59:53
  So we were fastest in – it rained the whole time that week.
• 59:59
  almost every practice session and then we qualified on pole and were leading the race and yeah but as i say it's a you know one of those stories that happens at the time that yeah you don't tell or whatever but i i was more detail there was a lot more detail to that and you know i didn't do anything wrong it was just just uh the way it ended up
• 1:00:27
  That's the end of part two of my podcast with Aussie rally legend Neil Bates.
• 1:00:31
  Now, I was actually in the commentary box that day at Bathurst in 2000.
• 1:00:36
  I can't immediately remember who it was in our broadcast team that was commentating at the time and said those words.
• 1:00:43
  Sometimes when it's live and there is drama, you call what you see.
• 1:00:48
  You react instinctively.
• 1:00:50
  Invariably, the story evolves or becomes clearer later through pit reports and so on.
• 1:00:57
  If it was me that said that, then I need to own it and apologise to Neil.
• 1:01:02
  I'm glad we've been able to set the record straight here and share a little-known backstory with you.
• 1:01:08
  Now, because he has done an incredible amount in his career, we have more for you.
• 1:01:14
  Yep, a third instalment is all loaded up and ready for listeners to line up on the stage start right now and hit the go button.
• 1:01:22
  From the world-class work being done by Neil Bates Motorsport to the emergence of his sons, Harry and Lewis, plus the piece of rally history the family holds, his love of driving trucks and crashing one of the coolest cars he's ever owned after agreeing to sell it.