Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Mark Rawlins about his choice of The Savages (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Mark Rawlins about his choice of The Savages (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a plump. Pen knife for doing.
• 0:35
  Quicker, quicker, quicker. Hello and welcome back Dodo to a
• 0:43
  hamster with a blood pen knife. My child, the Doctor Who
• 0:48
  commentary pod calls, and I am here me, Steven Noonan, and I am
• 0:55
  here today with my. Lovely plucky assistant, Miss
• 1:00
  Dodo. Chaplet, introduce yourself to
• 1:03
  Dodo. Sorry.
• 1:04
  Oh, I'm so happy to be here. And my child, what would be,
• 1:13
  what would will we be commentating on today, Doctor,
• 1:17
  It's the savages. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
• 1:22
  Blood Pen Knife, the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
• 1:26
  Small have yet before we continue.
• 1:30
  Nine months have passed between us recording episode one and two
• 1:36
  and episodes 3:00 and 4:00, because my partner in crime here
• 1:41
  has been absolutely blame me. I will blame you.
• 1:44
  It's been impossible to get you to record this.
• 1:46
  We did one and two and then sort of forgot, didn't we?
• 1:48
  So. We've recorded 60s, seventies,
• 1:51
  80s, finished bigs. You've been recording two.
• 1:54
  Watch who's I've been recording. Hamsters and all sorts, yeah, so
• 1:58
  we might have forgot what we said in part one and two, But
• 2:01
  carry on. I know where we were.
• 2:03
  Part 2 The Doctor has been. We've got to press play on part
• 2:06
  three. That's where we're at.
• 2:08
  But we left the Doctor in his unconscious state in a glass
• 2:13
  box. Having his conscience sucked
• 2:15
  off, yeah. So all you ever wanted in life
• 2:19
  was to say William Hart or get sucked off.
• 2:21
  However, before we go into episode 3.
• 2:25
  I do have a question for you. OK?
• 2:28
  And it's not about William Hartnell, but it is about the
• 2:31
  1st Doctor, and I would like you please to just give you
• 2:35
  thoughts. I'm going to name other actors
• 2:37
  that have played the 1st Doctor because in this episode, it's
• 2:42
  the very first person to play the 1st Doctor Who is not
• 2:46
  William Hartnell. Frederick Yeager.
• 2:51
  Frederick. Yeah, technically, very
• 2:54
  technically. So I'm just going to throw a few
• 2:56
  names at you and you give me a couple of juicy opinions.
• 2:59
  OK? You're never sure of those, so
• 3:03
  let's start with Peter Purves from The Commander Chronicles.
• 3:06
  Oh, very good. Very, very good.
• 3:09
  He's brilliant in those big finishes and they should should
• 3:13
  keep using him. He gets well.
• 3:17
  He's obviously worked with Egan Hartnells so closely, yeah, that
• 3:21
  he just gets. I mean, it's the voice isn't
• 3:23
  100%, is it? But it's.
• 3:25
  Just none of them are. But you believe it's a
• 3:27
  well-rounded character. It's the first Doctor, the
• 3:30
  character. And it works because it's first
• 3:32
  person narration, yeah. So it's basically Steven's
• 3:36
  interpretation of how things are happening because he's telling
• 3:38
  the story. It's really a little bit more
• 3:41
  cheeky version of the first Doctor that he plays.
• 3:45
  I love it. And he's written Smart.
• 3:46
  He's mostly written by Simon Gurria, recently interviewed by
• 3:51
  the spectacular podcast Finish Big Yeah Okay.
• 3:55
  So Next up we're going to go across to Richard Hundel from
• 3:59
  The Five Doctors. I knew it.
• 4:01
  Nothing like him, really, is it? Nothing like, I mean.
• 4:05
  You love it though. I mean, he's just like that one
• 4:08
  he plays in Blake 7, which is, yeah, it's neat.
• 4:10
  Brought some Blake seven in a suit, basically.
• 4:12
  There's nothing like him at all. And I think it would have worked
• 4:16
  though, if they'd gone with that original idea that Robert Holmes
• 4:20
  had about the 1st Doctor being a robot, because then you would
• 4:22
  have got away. Then it would have been
• 4:23
  brilliant because we would have known that it wasn't exactly the
• 4:26
  First Doctor. I think he, I think he doesn't
• 4:28
  get the humor of the first Doctor, but he does get the
• 4:30
  essence of authority. JNT is said to him, you plan the
• 4:34
  1st Doctor? He's a crotchety old man from
• 4:36
  what we remember in the 60s. Just be a bit grumpy and shouty
• 4:39
  and you've got it and it's not. And when Caroline Ford's like,
• 4:42
  oh, I looked round, it was like, Bill, I do that.
• 4:44
  I'm like, bullshit. That's absolute bullshit,
• 4:48
  Caroline. It's nothing like if Richard Ned
• 4:51
  will turn around, I would not go.
• 4:52
  That's William. Hart, do you hear that?
• 4:53
  Carol? You are full of bullshit.
• 4:54
  All right, okay. Well, although you do love the
• 4:58
  five doctors, yes. Oh no, I do.
• 5:00
  Yeah, I've got to admit, he does munch on a pineapple.
• 5:03
  Just like I don't think William Hunt will have munched like
• 5:06
  that. No, I'm saying you munch on a
• 5:07
  pineapple. You can.
• 5:09
  I don't munch like. I've seen you munching all
• 5:11
  right. Okay.
• 5:15
  Well, let's move on to David Bradley of Twice Upon a Time and
• 5:23
  The Power of the Doctor and Big Finish I It took a while to get
• 5:27
  used to him. Once you get used to it,
• 5:29
  especially on the big finishes he has, his way of speaking
• 5:33
  isn't like William Hartnell at all.
• 5:35
  The rhythm of the speech, he hasn't got it, but again, once
• 5:40
  you get into those stories, it's a well-rounded character that
• 5:42
  he's playing and you believe he's playing the character of
• 5:45
  the first Doctor. It's not a straight out
• 5:47
  impression. It's not just grumpy.
• 5:51
  I think it's very good. It's.
• 5:53
  A reinterpretation of Yes, he's not playing William Hartnell
• 5:56
  playing the 1st Doctor no like. We're going to move on to Steven
• 5:59
  Noonan in a second. That's what I think what Steven
• 6:01
  Noonan is trying to do. But I think David Bradley
• 6:04
  basically has the essence of the character, but he's doing his
• 6:08
  own thing with it. And actually, some of those
• 6:09
  stories, may I please just recommend The Invention of
• 6:12
  Death, which is an incredible First Doctor story written by
• 6:16
  John Dornan. Yeah, some really good stories
• 6:18
  there. And yeah, it took me quite a
• 6:20
  long time to actually get him as the first Doctor.
• 6:24
  But you do. It doesn't work when Stephen
• 6:26
  Moff is writing for him in this Twice Upon a Time because he
• 6:29
  makes him so. He makes him sexist, slightly
• 6:33
  homophobic and but is that getting oldfashioned, Getting
• 6:38
  the 1st Doctor and William Hartnell sort of mixed up?
• 6:41
  I'm wondering, but the first doctor.
• 6:44
  Was never oldfashioned William Hartnell.
• 6:46
  If William Hartnell was on the set of that Christmas special in
• 6:51
  the new series, then that's William Hart not walking around.
• 6:54
  Like that He would have taken no, no, no.
• 6:56
  But he would have taken one look at those lines and gone.
• 6:58
  I'm not reading this shit, honestly.
• 7:01
  It goes. There was a time, you know, I
• 7:02
  was at the peak of of being. What's the word I'm thinking of
• 7:08
  Up to date? Modern.
• 7:09
  I was walking around with a reacting vibrator once.
• 7:12
  You know, I would not be shocked at two women having a snog.
• 7:15
  Where Chuck Pitt imagine you know in adventurous space and
• 7:18
  time. Where he he does his lines with
• 7:21
  Heather Hartnell that go home in bed.
• 7:23
  Imagine Heather oh, I've got the new Christmas special that I'm
• 7:26
  in. You play the part of Bill and I
• 7:28
  will be the Doctor. And you watched the Heather?
• 7:30
  Hartnell. Bill, it's Charlie got smack
• 7:32
  bottom. You're the Hartnell being like
• 7:36
  I'm into girls anyway. Moving on to Edmund Warwick then
• 7:43
  from the Chase. Oh well, I cannot forgive Edmund
• 7:47
  Warwick from the Chase because there was that newspaper
• 7:51
  clipping with him in the 90s saying that he didn't like
• 7:53
  service to McCoy. Yeah, he said he.
• 7:58
  Didn't like it was a bit camp. Well, he didn't even watch the
• 8:02
  chase when he was in it, obviously.
• 8:04
  No, terrible. Doesn't even look like.
• 8:06
  That you know, Annika Will said that in the behind the sofa for
• 8:09
  Battlefield. She thought it was all a bit
• 8:11
  camp, but when he's playing that robot doctor, I mean, they
• 8:14
  couldn't have cost anyone less, like.
• 8:19
  But it does sound like William Hartl Because he's stopping his
• 8:21
  life. Yeah, because he's stopping his
• 8:22
  life out of sync. Yeah.
• 8:24
  And moving on then to my favorite pervert, Steven Noonan,
• 8:30
  It's funny that's more mimicry, that is more when you listen to
• 8:33
  those big finishes, he's literally and in the scripts as
• 8:36
  well, they've taken actual lines that the doctor said from the TV
• 8:40
  show and he's they've plunked it in and he's mimicking it line
• 8:43
  for line. I do.
• 8:46
  I do think he can. It's a very good impression.
• 8:48
  Yeah. I don't know it take that's
• 8:52
  again, it's taken a bit more to get used to but in terms of the
• 8:55
  precision of getting the voice, I I think he's the best.
• 9:00
  The Big finish in terms of mimicry.
• 9:03
  I think it comes down to the sound liking rather than good
• 9:06
  acting I think sometimes. I think it comes down to the
• 9:08
  scripts, yeah, because I think if the scripts captures his
• 9:11
  voice and there's lines in there that sort of tailored to William
• 9:15
  Harlow's line that's in the 60s, he can capture it perfect.
• 9:18
  The problem that takes me out of it though, is because we know
• 9:20
  all these lines from all these shows so well, that when he
• 9:25
  mimics an exact line from the ones that we know, he just, he's
• 9:30
  like, well, he's just sang a line from the time Medler.
• 9:33
  He's just sang a line from that. And it takes you out of the
• 9:35
  story because you're like, well, he's just saying it again.
• 9:36
  He wouldn't, you know. Well, I think the conclusion
• 9:39
  that we can draw from all of these first Doctors is William
• 9:43
  Hartnell is the governor. Oh, absolutely.
• 9:45
  The best you know he. And in terms of like somebody
• 9:51
  taking a role and owning it. Yeah, I.
• 9:55
  I'm going to be bold now. I don't think anybody has done
• 9:59
  that with the Doctor since. I think a lot of people have
• 10:01
  owned it, but not to the extent the heart of it.
• 10:05
  No, we can give him that. Can't Mike.
• 10:07
  I think that's the blueprint of which all other doctors are sort
• 10:12
  of defined by, you know. And a lot of people did look
• 10:14
  back in his direction. I think Peter Davidson said
• 10:18
  that, Colin Baker said that. But they added these sort of
• 10:21
  slightly crappy moments because Hartnell could be a bit nasty.
• 10:25
  And they like to add in bits of that to the character.
• 10:27
  Yeah. Well, shall we go into the
• 10:30
  Savages part three? We.
• 10:31
  Should we're 10 minutes into this episode already.
• 10:33
  As we as we said nine months ago, we were doing the loose
• 10:35
  cannon reconstruction. That's right.
• 10:37
  So we're about to press play on that on episode 3 now.
• 10:41
  Delightful of watching the cloud, William Hartnell gets
• 10:44
  sucked not by Jack Pitt, but by a dreadful machine on the planet
• 10:50
  of the Savages. Why isn't this planet named?
• 10:53
  I'm not sure. What would you call me?
• 10:56
  Naninos. So I think this is a very Doctor
• 11:01
  Light episode as we get towards the end of the in this period
• 11:06
  which I think we've mentioned before you.
• 11:07
  Remember we watched this earlier, right?
• 11:09
  There was a lot of running around in this episode.
• 11:12
  I think we've had a really good first couple of episodes and now
• 11:15
  the plot needs to slow down a little bit.
• 11:17
  And I think, yeah, I don't think he's around because he's
• 11:20
  unconscious here. I don't know if this is a.
• 11:22
  No, he's in the Tele snaps at the end of the episode.
• 11:24
  He's down the corridor getting gas.
• 11:25
  He's at the end and he's beginning at the end, but that's
• 11:29
  it. He doesn't have and that could
• 11:30
  have been filmed from the week before.
• 11:32
  So he's only turning up at the end.
• 11:33
  Really. You.
• 11:34
  Remember how you know there's all this stuff about how they
• 11:37
  wanted to get rid of William Harnell?
• 11:38
  Yeah. And the producers didn't like
• 11:41
  him because he was a terrible old pest on the set and shown at
• 11:43
  everybody. I mean, look at this episode.
• 11:45
  He's sucked at the beginning and he's gassed at the end.
• 11:48
  Yeah, I know. I mean, they're they're in
• 11:49
  terrible things. They do put him through it.
• 11:52
  He is definitely part time at this point that he's like, yeah.
• 11:56
  Well, no, you just had the gunfire is where he was
• 11:59
  definitely full time. But then you add sense to your
• 12:01
  toy maker before that, where it was definitely part time.
• 12:03
  It's not in every week, not all the time.
• 12:06
  What's really sad is, you know, and we didn't talk about the
• 12:09
  succession of stories coming after this, but we lose Steven
• 12:13
  here and then we lose Dodo in the next Dodo, Dodo in the next
• 12:18
  story. I know, that's the shame,
• 12:20
  because you're rather keen on this bunch, aren't you?
• 12:23
  Yeah, they should have had longer, I think.
• 12:24
  But it gives Steven and Dodo a lot to do in this story.
• 12:29
  At least they do have. It's Peter Park is still doing
• 12:31
  the big finishes. I'm not sure.
• 12:34
  I've not seen anything announced in there for ages because I
• 12:37
  think if they threw him in with Noonan and what's the new Dodo
• 12:40
  called? Yeah, Lauren Cornelius.
• 12:42
  Lauren Cornelius, who's yeah, must say very spunky.
• 12:46
  Is the new Dodo full of spunk? She is.
• 12:49
  So here we've got Steven and Dodo with the The Savages.
• 12:52
  That's right. They look a bit sort of messed
• 12:55
  up, I think. Like those primitives in State
• 12:57
  of Decay. You know, everyone's got a fake
• 12:59
  beard. Oh, John Cure has done a wobbly
• 13:00
  one there. He's got a bit of a blur.
• 13:02
  He wasn't looking. Sometimes you get him spot on.
• 13:06
  And sometimes pressing the button and he he doesn't know
• 13:08
  what's going to come out. I don't know.
• 13:10
  If they're moving, they're going to be blurred.
• 13:12
  He's trying to wait till they're standing still, but you're
• 13:15
  paying free services. You think you'd get it right?
• 13:17
  What's very odd is literally there's a two second moment in
• 13:20
  this episode where it comes to life.
• 13:21
  That's so interesting, isn't it? Where do?
• 13:23
  Those things come from a couple of I think there's the
• 13:26
  mythmakers, there's this, there's a few existing ones as
• 13:28
  well. I think they came from Australia
• 13:30
  or New Zealand from what I've heard on on other podcasts and I
• 13:36
  sort of from the 80s and I don't think anyone knows where they
• 13:39
  have come from and the person, wherever it came from, it
• 13:42
  doesn't want to be. Known somebody putting a camera
• 13:44
  on, someone's got their, you know, their family cine camera.
• 13:46
  And we get all the TV that they that they give and all their
• 13:49
  place. Yeah, I know.
• 13:51
  Yeah. But nobody knows exactly where
• 13:53
  they came from and when. And there's theories that it
• 13:55
  might have been from repeats later on, because whoever has
• 13:58
  done it, apparently the theory is that they've known what's
• 14:01
  coming up. So it's a lot of, it's not like
• 14:03
  it's on for the first time and they're just randomly putting it
• 14:05
  up. It's scenes where certain, sort
• 14:07
  of. Important things, don't they?
• 14:09
  Yeah. So they, you know, it's like
• 14:11
  they've seen it before. I I mean, what if those cinny
• 14:16
  things are from ones that are in existence and someone's put it
• 14:21
  up to the camp, you know, put it up when they've someone's
• 14:24
  playing their game. And there's a bit of a weird
• 14:27
  mystery about where they've come from, and they've been, but
• 14:29
  there was from this from existing episodes as well.
• 14:33
  So I wonder if they're the ones. I think there's the savages out
• 14:35
  there, you know? Obviously The Savages currently
• 14:39
  is not in the BBC archive, but since the last time you and I
• 14:43
  spoke about The Savages, it has come to light that there are
• 14:48
  episodes out there in collector's hands.
• 14:49
  It's always been in the no, no, no, no thing.
• 14:52
  But I think several sources are saying certain than usual.
• 14:54
  I think it's more certain than it has been so.
• 14:56
  Why? You and me have discussed this
• 14:58
  off my phone, but why do you think people don't want to give
• 15:01
  them this back to the archives? Because it's like having a
• 15:04
  certain piece of artwork that nobody else has.
• 15:06
  You know, there's an underground network of art.
• 15:08
  Just. Greed or the act of denying
• 15:11
  people something, yeah, but it's not special then, isn't it?
• 15:13
  If you're a collector or something you want like, you
• 15:16
  know. Didn't you say there's some
• 15:17
  fabuche eggs out there that missings, you know, and that you
• 15:22
  can have the only one in the whole world?
• 15:24
  Doctor Who missing episodes to Fabchet eggs?
• 15:27
  Well, yeah, Fabchet egg. And the Savage is a very
• 15:31
  beautiful Fabchet egg. Certainly just reconstruction is
• 15:35
  where they've got CGI flames in the tall.
• 15:37
  I think that's really kind of the loose cannons are really
• 15:39
  good, aren't they? They really put some effort.
• 15:41
  I'd like to see this animated. I think this would do very well.
• 15:44
  I think it would. I think people would really like
• 15:48
  it and I think it would work. It would be quite easy to do, I
• 15:51
  think. Yeah, they are really sticking
• 15:53
  with the trout ones. I think it's because they've got
• 15:55
  all of the models of the characters, yeah.
• 15:57
  So they haven't got to do all that extra work.
• 16:00
  I wonder if a lot of this is when they're in the caves, if
• 16:04
  that's on film, because they did do stuff at Ealing, I think
• 16:08
  because they've got, like you said, they've got the fight.
• 16:10
  You know, when there's usual real flames, that usually means
• 16:12
  they do a bit of film work, don't they?
• 16:14
  So I think a lot of this they look.
• 16:16
  Really dry at those caves, don't they?
• 16:18
  Yeah, I think that must be on Ealing.
• 16:19
  That can't be in the studio, surely?
• 16:21
  Explore any tight caves, see all this stuff here when dodo's down
• 16:29
  the hole and stuff. I think this must all be done
• 16:31
  and it it looks great. Doesn't it?
• 16:33
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, they're running down the
• 16:36
  caves and it's all by torchlight.
• 16:37
  There's the leader at the top of the stage.
• 16:39
  I think the lighting would be really great in it.
• 16:41
  Oh, it's such a shame. It does look good from these
• 16:43
  telesnaps. It does.
• 16:45
  It does. Do you know there's something
• 16:47
  else that I found very interesting about this episode,
• 16:50
  which is unusual for Doctor Who to take a sort of psychological
• 16:54
  angle at this point and later on in the episode where Jano.
• 16:58
  Has the Doctor's life essence put inside of him?
• 17:01
  Well, effectively, the Doctor's personality is put inside of
• 17:05
  him, and he has sequences where he's fighting with himself,
• 17:09
  where he's got this wretched machine and he goes to destroy
• 17:12
  it. And then Jano catches himself
• 17:15
  with the pipe in his hand and it sort of drops the you don't get
• 17:19
  a lot of that, no. And that.
• 17:21
  That's some of the strongest parts of this story.
• 17:24
  I'm not so keen on the Nanina and exhaust Love story or
• 17:28
  anything like that. Love.
• 17:29
  Story He meets her in The Cave and he's like, oh, you're
• 17:32
  Nanina, aren't you? Yes.
• 17:34
  Go on. Well, they get together at the
• 17:36
  end in a way, don't they? Because they're from the two
• 17:38
  different sides. Well, you'll see in a bit I.
• 17:42
  Mean. She's very pretty.
• 17:43
  But look, let's take her for him.
• 17:45
  Mostly she just wouldn't, would you?
• 17:46
  Oh, do you know what? When they're having it off, we
• 17:52
  could go na Nina and this is this is leading up all this
• 17:57
  stuff in The Cave. He's leading up for a really
• 17:59
  clever moment with Stephen and the mirror that he got as a gift
• 18:03
  earlier on. He bounces off the light because
• 18:05
  of these light guns. Oh, and he bounces off The
• 18:08
  guards. The guards.
• 18:09
  That's really clever. That's his Preakness moment
• 18:11
  there, isn't it? And this is where Stephen is
• 18:14
  stepping up. Yeah.
• 18:16
  And it's not enough slowly. I mean how it does seem like a
• 18:20
  big decision, like a quick decision at the end?
• 18:23
  I think that you know what, it's definitely getting into it.
• 18:25
  He does care about the society. If the show wasn't going through
• 18:28
  so many pairs of hands, yeah, you know, he got, he was fed up
• 18:31
  at the end of Diet's master plan.
• 18:33
  He was fed up at the end of the massacre because they lost
• 18:35
  people in both stories and they called it they shouldn't have
• 18:39
  had a sort of running in the next couple of stories.
• 18:41
  You know what, I think I need to go soon.
• 18:44
  I I don't think there's lifestyles for me anymore.
• 18:47
  Well, they did it with Victoria, they do it with other
• 18:49
  characters. They can do it what they did.
• 18:52
  It feels very sudden though in this story.
• 18:54
  They're all so sudden around this time.
• 18:56
  I mean, the only thing I can see that's enticing him is there's
• 18:58
  all these pretty girls around, you know, Flower and Anita and
• 19:03
  all that. I don't know.
• 19:06
  How it goes to red, though. Do you want to be in the league?
• 19:08
  Yeah, I'm there. Yeah.
• 19:10
  Just take over this whole planet.
• 19:11
  I don't know. Is there more than one EB city
• 19:13
  on this planet? Maybe it's just he just couldn't
• 19:16
  bare to be traveling with Dodo anymore.
• 19:18
  No. Get away from her.
• 19:21
  Jesus. Honking away with that clown and
• 19:24
  Celestial Toymaker. See, I think John Cura hasn't
• 19:27
  done many telesnaps here because we're going back and forth on
• 19:29
  the same ones for a lot. And actually there's not that
• 19:32
  much dialogue. There's less dialogue in this
• 19:34
  episode. There's a lot of action in these
• 19:36
  caves, if you pardon the. So I think if this was animated,
• 19:42
  there would have to be a lot of work done here at this point, I
• 19:46
  think. And it is a bit difficult to let
• 19:48
  when you listen to the audio of this to exactly get what's going
• 19:53
  on here. I think this would have been
• 19:55
  shot very well, though I think this would have looked.
• 19:57
  Another thing I'll notice was actually Dodo's treat quite
• 20:00
  seriously in this episode, you know, which is quite nice
• 20:04
  because usually she is the one that sort of bumbles into
• 20:06
  trouble. Yeah, where she's actually quite
• 20:09
  useful in this Tor and Wilder. Well, there's a couple of space
• 20:13
  names if ever I heard them Wilder.
• 20:18
  I know, I know. Oldfashioned name and the Nina,
• 20:21
  of course, from the Wheel in Space.
• 20:23
  What's her name? Tanya from The Wheel in Space,
• 20:25
  is he? Yeah, Tanya Linov.
• 20:27
  Yeah, that. Have I told you about my nose?
• 20:30
  Yeah, it's nose lady from Wheel in Space.
• 20:32
  God, she looks totally different.
• 20:34
  These people just turn up and everything.
• 20:36
  But OK, I do have a question. We talked earlier in the story
• 20:43
  about this about the Highlanders and about the smugglers.
• 20:47
  Why is it those stories are so neglected?
• 20:51
  I I think people are going to see this coming out in my
• 20:53
  schedules and going well, what the fuck are they going to talk
• 20:55
  about? The savages of four episodes?
• 20:56
  You know, when there is actually a lot.
• 20:59
  But why? Why do people?
• 21:02
  I think it's the simple fact that it's missing.
• 21:04
  It's not anything else and you don't have.
• 21:06
  Yeah, but there's more of. A smash plan missing, but
• 21:09
  everyone talks about that. Smugglers, savages, Highlanders.
• 21:11
  There's no monsters. There's no big monster.
• 21:14
  There's not like, that's the thing in Galaxy 4.
• 21:17
  The real there's not like the reals like oh.
• 21:19
  There's a real report in that list.
• 21:21
  There's only one picture of a real.
• 21:22
  It's exciting to see what a real might have been like, actually.
• 21:25
  The War Machines is a big contemporary sort of alien
• 21:28
  invasion story. 10 Planet is a side man and regeneration story.
• 21:32
  The power of the Daleks is Daleks and the new Doctor.
• 21:35
  You're right, they haven't really got a hook, have they?
• 21:38
  No, I think that's what I think. It's lack of monsters in these
• 21:40
  ones. See these?
• 21:42
  It's a bit difficult to see what's going on here with what
• 21:45
  is Dodo doing there? It's like she's trying to crawl
• 21:47
  out of the hole, Dodo love. Why did you get in that hole?
• 21:53
  And this is where the lie. Roll it back again.
• 21:55
  Look, why is she holding shoulding?
• 21:56
  On to someone's arm. That's a muscly arm.
• 21:59
  Yeah, I know I'm a shell man. It's the old man.
• 22:01
  Oh, what is she on top of him? That's very difficult.
• 22:04
  Oh, John cure. Can't you take him one more?
• 22:06
  Just one more, you know. Actually can he have taken?
• 22:10
  I want you to take an existing story and take. 60 pictures and
• 22:14
  see if you can try and tell a narrative.
• 22:16
  I take 25 a second and then that would sort everyone's problems
• 22:20
  out. Yeah, we can.
• 22:20
  Have a technology back then and you can't tell on these lease
• 22:23
  cannon reconstruction, is that an actual telesnap or is that
• 22:26
  because that sort of looks a really good?
• 22:27
  Shot of Steven holding up pictures with the guard.
• 22:31
  Yeah, sometimes you can't tell. I think they've photoshopped
• 22:34
  some of these in. So actually you can't 100% tell
• 22:38
  what John Cure did or not. So.
• 22:40
  Do you know what this is? I'll tell you what this episode
• 22:43
  is. It's the episode free of the
• 22:44
  Space Museum. In it, you remember when.
• 22:47
  Oh no, it was episode 2. There's the episode where
• 22:49
  William Martin gets frozen in that machine, and then we're
• 22:52
  with the Companions just trying to get into where he is.
• 22:56
  And Ian goes in with the gun at the end and goes, oh, Doctor.
• 22:58
  Well, exactly the same thing happens, isn't it?
• 23:00
  You've got Steven Adodo trying to get back to the place of the
• 23:03
  Elders. They finally catch up with him
• 23:05
  at the end and exactly the same, he's going do, you know, and
• 23:10
  then the gas comes in, so it does slow down.
• 23:15
  There's a lot of this cave stuff and.
• 23:17
  I put you know what? A lot of dog tubes have a lot of
• 23:20
  running around in episode 3. It's a very typical episode
• 23:23
  three. Yeah.
• 23:24
  And here you see. Here's I don't know I've got
• 23:27
  feeling. Well, it looks like he's in a
• 23:29
  terrible state, really. He doesn't have many lines to
• 23:31
  learn this week. But he's well happy.
• 23:33
  I can do it all with a look, you know.
• 23:35
  And this is Jano saying that he's going to take all of the
• 23:38
  Doctor's life force because he's interested in in it in that way.
• 23:42
  No, But do you think it is because because he makes the
• 23:45
  suggestion that he's doing it because it's dangerous, because
• 23:48
  he's an alien. But do you think he's doing it
• 23:50
  because he knows the Doctor's smart and it's going to make him
• 23:52
  he knows he knows exactly what he's doing here?
• 23:54
  Do you think it's hubris rather than concern?
• 23:58
  I love this set actually. I think it looks really good.
• 24:03
  I mean, I think you've got your stock usual consoles in the back
• 24:06
  there. That's in every Doctors story,
• 24:08
  but I'd love to see how that, you know, with the bubbles in
• 24:13
  the tubes and everything. I'd love to see.
• 24:16
  Actually, because I can barely see any perceptible difference
• 24:18
  between the Frederick Jaeger of the Savages and Planet of Evil.
• 24:23
  But then, between Planet of Evil and invisible enemy, he seems to
• 24:25
  have aged about 10 years. Yeah, he's an invisible enemy.
• 24:29
  Well. It's because he's got that
• 24:30
  comedy, beard, comedy voice I know.
• 24:34
  I hope his toilet trains all that bullshit.
• 24:40
  Actually, I was secretly quite a lot of him.
• 24:41
  Doesn't worry me, you know. So Jano's going in this glass
• 24:45
  case thing. That's right.
• 24:47
  It's going to have the doctors, but he's in there.
• 24:50
  Do you think this was a genuine? They were going to give this as
• 24:54
  a genuine reason as to why the Doctor had changed faces?
• 24:57
  No, I don't think so. Would you think they were
• 24:59
  Charlie, I think this is looking back and people just putting
• 25:01
  that on there, I don't think. There's any interesting that
• 25:04
  this would happen though in the 10th planet.
• 25:06
  They too effectively have him change from one face to another.
• 25:10
  Well, yeah, they do, yeah. But this is not changing.
• 25:12
  This is essence, isn't it? It's not different.
• 25:15
  It's not. The Doctor is still there as a
• 25:17
  person. They'd have to, really.
• 25:20
  They'd have to kill off that. The actual William Arnold man.
• 25:25
  All those other First Doctors that we talked about at the
• 25:28
  beginning of the episode, I didn't ask you about Frederick.
• 25:30
  There you go. How do you think?
• 25:32
  Oh, I think he's brilliant, actually.
• 25:33
  I think he pitches his voice a little too high pitched, though.
• 25:37
  No. I kind of gives.
• 25:38
  It sounds very. I'd love to see.
• 25:41
  This is the tragedy of not having this to see the
• 25:42
  mannerisms. I bet he does those mannerisms
• 25:45
  very, very well. And I bet you've been.
• 25:48
  Poured into that, yeah, There's a lot of smoke in this.
• 25:51
  The dry ice budget for this, with all the guns and everything
• 25:55
  and all the lab stuff stories. With a lot of dry ice, you dry
• 25:58
  ice going on in this one and at the end as well in the tunnel
• 26:02
  there's lots of dry ice coming. Can I just say that there is a
• 26:05
  fantastic episode of Corners on YouTube featuring my favorite
• 26:11
  sofa or vision, of course explaining how dry ice is made.
• 26:15
  So everybody seeked that out. They don't really explain it
• 26:17
  that well though. They just say here's a box and
• 26:19
  you put this in there and you do.
• 26:21
  Yeah, And you ask them what ice sort of water when the smoke
• 26:23
  comes out. I've tried to do that, you know,
• 26:24
  before. Or make my homemade dry ice
• 26:27
  machine. You're in a party for the thing
• 26:29
  at work. Yeah.
• 26:30
  So we bought the chemical because it was it's quite
• 26:32
  expensive to hire a dry ice machine, so I don't know why we
• 26:34
  decided to make our own, because it was just as expensive to hire
• 26:37
  in the chemicals. Was it toxic?
• 26:38
  Did you kill everyone as far As for a cinema event?
• 26:41
  So we got we got a plastic box from like cut a hole in it and
• 26:47
  then we had to you put these crystals in but you obviously
• 26:50
  have to have goggles and safety things because it's like toxic
• 26:52
  and you can't touch your skin. And then you pour hot water in
• 26:55
  it and then it creates the dry ice and then fan out Well.
• 26:59
  But then everyone sitting there at the cinema, we bring this
• 27:01
  home, a plastic box in the corner, pour some hot water from
• 27:04
  a kettle in it and all this dry ice comes out and then it sort
• 27:07
  of stops. You got to be there keep pouring
• 27:09
  in your hot water. I'm adding crystals in, so don't
• 27:13
  don't try at home it. Sounds like a health society.
• 27:15
  Not absolutely was and at a bubble machine.
• 27:17
  All the people are still alive, yes, but it but it sort of left
• 27:23
  us over. It sort of lingered a couple of
• 27:25
  centimeters on the floor, just all over there floor, which is
• 27:28
  why it wasn't it wasn't as amazing as the savages.
• 27:31
  Dry eyes here, if you. Care to go to?
• 27:33
  I think it was our Keeper of Track and episodes of Hansberg
• 27:36
  Blum Penn Knife. Mark tells you about the other
• 27:38
  theme parties that you did. Dialect Invasion of Earth 2058 D
• 27:42
  What else did you do? Well, this dry ice one was for
• 27:45
  Labyrinth. Oh, dance, magic dance.
• 27:48
  Anyway, sorry, couldn't really do it.
• 27:52
  Musical the savages, could you? No, I don't think so.
• 27:56
  You have a song called Nanina Nina.
• 28:00
  You want to see her? Don't go that way.
• 28:06
  Wait, it could be. And this is Edo singing this.
• 28:09
  OK, OK, Don't cry for me na Nina.
• 28:18
  The state of him is that the guy this is guy from Planet of Evil
• 28:21
  as well, isn't. He You're in Solon.
• 28:23
  Yeah. Oh, look, that's quite a nice
• 28:26
  entrance there. It's the place of the Elders,
• 28:27
  isn't it? Nothing's really got a name
• 28:30
  here, is it? It's all the planet of the
• 28:32
  Savages, The place of the Elders.
• 28:34
  You know Ian Stuart Black, actually.
• 28:38
  He did the same thing in MC Terra, didn't he?
• 28:41
  Yeah. It's an unnamed colony.
• 28:42
  It is, yeah. Just.
• 28:43
  Colony, anyway. Decidedly futuristic, whatever
• 28:47
  that means. The guard hears something and
• 28:51
  looks up casually. These these are very useful.
• 28:54
  You know he's eating his fruit. Stephen moves within range of
• 28:58
  his gun trigger happy in this isn't he using the the line gun?
• 29:01
  Maybe they see he's very protective.
• 29:03
  That's why they offer him the presidency.
• 29:06
  And should you wish to discover what happened to Steven after
• 29:10
  these events, there are three fabulous Companion Chronicles
• 29:14
  written by our new friend Simon Guria in Big Finish.
• 29:19
  And Dodo is wearing what she wears in the war machines, isn't
• 29:22
  she? It's the same outfit, so we know
• 29:23
  what she looks. Steven's in a lovely black
• 29:26
  turtleneck, isn't he? She's all in black.
• 29:28
  She's. Young though, isn't She looks
• 29:29
  quite front of clothes like, well, she was young in let's see
• 29:33
  what she was Toy makers. But it's funny that the costume
• 29:36
  she ends up in for a couple of stories is this very I knew that
• 29:41
  was the thing. She ends up going to the Hoyts
• 29:43
  nightclub in town wearing that and she's sworn it on the
• 29:46
  planet. The savages, she must stink all
• 29:47
  the time. She gets the inferno.
• 29:49
  She's got changed, she's gone through, she's got cave in here,
• 29:53
  she's got gassed all these things.
• 29:56
  She's had Spears that are in the quarry and then by the time she
• 30:00
  gets to London she's off on a night out with Polly.
• 30:03
  Stinking, honking. I wonder.
• 30:05
  Polly ditches out for Ben as soon as she can, but the first
• 30:08
  point she gets to have a shower is when she's off in the country
• 30:11
  at the end of the war machine she runs with.
• 30:12
  That light, light. Polly has come on, Dodo.
• 30:15
  The Navy's in trouble. Hi.
• 30:20
  Oh, many a times in my past. You know, I wish the Navy was in
• 30:24
  trouble. I'd help him out.
• 30:26
  Oh, here we have Jay. No, he's he's got the essence
• 30:29
  now and this is what you say, where he's fighting.
• 30:32
  And I like it's very subtle at first, isn't it?
• 30:35
  Yeah, he's not lapel clutching or anything like that.
• 30:37
  It's not suddenly over the top. Although we don't know where
• 30:40
  they're choosing these telesnaps from though, and it's not 100%
• 30:42
  obvious. That's and then gold as well.
• 30:45
  Look, it's got a shimmer. I think they have got a shimmer,
• 30:47
  haven't they? A shimmer.
• 30:49
  A shimmer. Like, you know, like a spray.
• 30:50
  You know, like glitter spray. Is it supposed to suggest sort
• 30:52
  of opulence? Yeah, I think so.
• 30:57
  Do you think there's enough plot here for four episodes?
• 30:59
  I think this is no I think. It would be a tight free
• 31:05
  actually, yeah, Yeah, because this could have happened much
• 31:07
  sooner. Yeah, we'll be running and
• 31:10
  running case for 10 minutes. Yeah, of course, my child.
• 31:15
  No, no going along with you and fiddle about.
• 31:18
  I'd be scared to do this in front of William Hart, although.
• 31:21
  Well, it's like Mara said about when she was doing mail in Tom
• 31:24
  and Arani, that whenever Bonnie was around, she brought it down
• 31:27
  a little bit, actually got Dodo in this place and Dodo gets the
• 31:31
  essence of the doctor. That would have been the matter
• 31:36
  of fact, wouldn't. It I could do it now, but it
• 31:39
  would be Lauren Cornelius doing an impression of Steven Noonan.
• 31:41
  We got Doctor Dodo body swap. You see in this very few
• 31:51
  telesnaps that we've got. He's got his hand up there.
• 31:53
  I think he's doing the mannerisms.
• 31:57
  Well, yeah, This is the sort of stuff you want to see.
• 31:59
  That's what we want to see. That's what that person.
• 32:01
  That's got it. Is watching.
• 32:02
  Now tell us what it's like. That person that's got it in
• 32:05
  your basement? Or better still, give it to us.
• 32:08
  How much? How many times do you actually
• 32:10
  watch the Savages person in your basement?
• 32:11
  Do you watch it that much? Do you really we're.
• 32:15
  Going to a boot fairs tomorrow? Yeah, I'm telling you now,
• 32:18
  people at home should, oh, look, it's just a couple of eyes.
• 32:21
  Yeah, a little bit of Steve and someone.
• 32:23
  Just film that tiny thing. I've got it up against the yeah,
• 32:25
  you know, you press the thing. Couldn't they have done that for
• 32:28
  the whole story? I want to make done with that.
• 32:31
  Yeah, so go back to my story. We're going to a boot fair
• 32:34
  tomorrow. Should we discover the savages
• 32:36
  in that boot fair for, you know, 50P?
• 32:39
  It's going straight to the BBC everybody, yeah.
• 32:43
  We wouldn't deny people no. We've got little TV.
• 32:47
  They've got the monitor. So now.
• 32:52
  They're waiting for the Doctor. Yeah, Steven and Dodo to come in
• 32:56
  and then they're going to gas them.
• 32:58
  Is that right? Yeah, I like this set, this
• 33:00
  corridor set. Oh, yeah.
• 33:01
  You said that earlier. Did I?
• 33:03
  Yeah. What's the light?
• 33:04
  That's good, is what I And the minute you get those strings
• 33:08
  coming in again. Da da, da da.
• 33:15
  I feel as if maybe if she had to come in.
• 33:19
  After Vicki and just had the whole season, we've been quite
• 33:22
  honest. She had a better haircut as
• 33:23
  well. That might have helped.
• 33:25
  That's a Beatles mop top. This is very reminiscent at the
• 33:29
  end of 10th Planet, isn't it? With the Doctor there at the
• 33:32
  end, that could be a shot from the 10th planet.
• 33:34
  It looks like I was having a stroke.
• 33:36
  He's doing is he's totally out, but you can just see him walking
• 33:40
  forward and going. It's far from being all over
• 33:42
  with the Stephen and Dodo there. It could happen right now.
• 33:46
  That's true. And you know what?
• 33:47
  You you just say it's only fans doing this sort of story about
• 33:51
  how the Doctor regenerated, but he does go for a lot of shit in
• 33:54
  series three. Time Destructor.
• 33:57
  You know, Head sucks. He doesn't.
• 34:00
  You know, if you went to season one, you could probably find a
• 34:02
  load. Of war machines.
• 34:04
  He felt as if somebody was trying to absorb him, you know.
• 34:09
  Well, this would now be you'd what you've got.
• 34:11
  Yeah, those stories that you mentioned, it would be like
• 34:15
  Avengers Assemble. All the baddies coming together.
• 34:17
  Like Pandoraka opens, but the Pandoraka gets the Doctor.
• 34:20
  So it's Wotan in conjunction with the planet of the savages
• 34:24
  Jano and who else did you say? The Time Destructor?
• 34:27
  The Daleks are there and they're all like, we all come together.
• 34:31
  They all call up each other at the end of this and be like GO,
• 34:35
  and they've all been working together this whole time
• 34:37
  together. And the brothers?
• 34:39
  Well, maybe after the come fires, maybe Celestial Toy Maker
• 34:42
  as well. They've all been working
• 34:44
  together and then the Cybermen come in at the end as well, like
• 34:47
  we have you now. This is a couple of villains,
• 34:50
  and they are all there in the coming out of the snow at the
• 34:54
  end. The Cybermen.
• 34:55
  Mavic Chen in a lovely sheepskin coat in the winter and Jano and
• 35:01
  everyone's there. Yeah, I could see that.
• 35:03
  You. That would be cool.
• 35:04
  Ones of them. So that's your toymaker, Mavic,
• 35:06
  Chen, Cyberman and Daleks family teaming together.
• 35:10
  Think about the end of the Pandora Opens.
• 35:12
  You know, I just said that. Yeah.
• 35:13
  Oh, did you? So it kind of matters.
• 35:16
  Listen to him. Clearly I don't Panderica opens,
• 35:19
  but it's like the 10th planet and that opens and he and he's
• 35:22
  trapped within the 10th planet. Amazing and forced to
• 35:26
  regenerate. I don't want to see that.
• 35:27
  You know, I'm surprised. I was done that as a graphic
• 35:30
  novel or a Big Finish audio or a book.
• 35:33
  And then Polly and Ben are like a year.
• 35:35
  Have to travel the world for like a year and help and talk to
• 35:37
  everybody. And then they come and get him
• 35:40
  out of the like Sharder or something.
• 35:43
  No, that's too far. They get Patrick Crouton out of
• 35:47
  Sharder. Can I bring some semblance of
• 35:51
  normality to this conversation? And out it by saying the biggest
• 35:56
  shock of all is yeah, she gets fabulous character names like
• 36:00
  Nanina and Tonya Lainoff. And guess what her real name is?
• 36:06
  Claire Jenkins.