Latest / Pittsburgh Sports Memories / The Season of Controversy and Chaos

Transcript

The Season of Controversy and Chaos · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_04: Hi everybody.
0:01
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to an old-timey episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm your co-host, Tim Hannon, and with me is the gentlemanly Steve Wert, and I'm wearing my knickerbockers and I don't know what else they wore in 1908.
0:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
0:19
SPEAKER_04: And in this season, we're gonna talk about a long ago pirate season full of controversy and chaos.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: What?
0:28
SPEAKER_02: What?
0:29
SPEAKER_02: One of those.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Even in 1908 that happened?
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
0:33
SPEAKER_04: It did.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to believe.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so as Steve mentioned, we're gonna go all the way back to the year 1908 for this one.
0:56
SPEAKER_04: But before we get to that, I do want to say two things.
0:59
SPEAKER_04: Uh number one, I just want to thank all the folks who support this show.
1:05
SPEAKER_04: I think we usually kind of say that at the end of the show.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: Wait a minute.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: Is the show ending?
1:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm confused.
1:13
SPEAKER_04: No, just just yeah, wanted to um just mix it up and do it here at the beginning.
1:18
SPEAKER_04: Just appreciate the positive feedback, appreciate the engagement on our Facebook page.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: If you're not following us on Facebook, by the way, you're really missing out.
1:25
SPEAKER_04: We post a lot of great Pittsburgh sports history content there.
1:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh and if you are on social media, we'd really appreciate you sharing the fact that you like this podcast because word of mouth really is still our best means of getting new listeners.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if there's any people that are like 110 or 150 years old that are listening, maybe they can comment on the 1908 World Series.
1:52
SPEAKER_04: Probably not a lot of those people left.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, Tim.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: They're collecting Social Security checks, so they're out there.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: The government wouldn't be sending them social security checks if they didn't exist.
2:04
SPEAKER_04: So that's number one.
2:05
SPEAKER_04: Number two, I wanted to give a shout-out to a book called Crazy Oh8, written by a woman named Kate Murphy.
2:11
SPEAKER_04: That's where I got uh uh a lot of the research for this episode.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: We'll put a link to that book on our website.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: Uh Steve, my wife and I share a Kindle account, and I think you know it's it's always interesting to go in there and she's reading like these really good popular modern novels, and I have a book on the 1908 baseball season, and then she realizes what a dork she married.
2:36
SPEAKER_04: So, what's what's going on in the world in 1908?
2:39
SPEAKER_04: Let's talk about that.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: Uh, Henry Ford launches the Model T.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: It'll never work.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: Never work, Tim.
2:47
SPEAKER_04: Get a horse.
2:49
SPEAKER_04: The Boy Scouts are founded in 1908.
2:53
SPEAKER_04: There's an election that year.
2:54
SPEAKER_04: William Howard Taft defeats William Jennings Bryan.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
2:59
SPEAKER_04: Uh, the most popular book in 1908 is Anne of Green Gables.
3:04
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: By Richard M.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: Barry, I do believe.
3:09
SPEAKER_04: And the most popular song, Steve, any guesses on what the most popular song was in 1908?
3:14
SPEAKER_02: The Entertainer by Scott Joplin.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: No clue.
3:17
SPEAKER_04: Good guess.
3:17
SPEAKER_04: Uh no, it's actually a song about a girl named Katie Casey.
3:22
SPEAKER_04: And in that song, Katie's boyfriend calls her up and says, I want to take you to a show this weekend.
3:28
SPEAKER_04: But Katie says, No, I don't want to go to a show.
3:30
SPEAKER_04: You know where you can take me instead?
3:32
SPEAKER_04: Oh.
3:32
SPEAKER_04: You can take me out to the ball game.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: How apropri.
3:37
SPEAKER_04: Take me out to the crack.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: How apropos.
3:39
SPEAKER_04: Maybe buy me some peanuts.
3:41
SPEAKER_04: Cracker Jack.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: She doesn't care if you ever get back.
3:46
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank God, because the game will probably less shorter than you know any game nowadays with a pitch clock.
3:53
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
3:54
SPEAKER_04: So that's um that's what's going on in the world in 1908.
3:58
SPEAKER_04: How about locally here in Pittsburgh?
4:00
SPEAKER_02: I'd bet uh need a smog mask, probably to walk through downtown.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: Probably.
4:05
SPEAKER_04: Probably.
4:06
SPEAKER_04: Uh it's it's also the year that Beachview becomes part of the city of Pittsburgh, Steve.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was, but my house wasn't built for another what 17 years.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes, in the 1925.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: So I have pictures.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: There's actually pictures of the digital library there's a digital library at uh University of Pittsburgh.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: The city did surveys for the streets when they were putting the gas lines in Beachview, and I actually looked at a house, a picture of my street before my house was built.
4:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, as they are putting because they're they had I guess they wanted to be able to find the gas lines later because you know they're obviously underground and they took pictures of where they are.
4:43
SPEAKER_02: It's it's interesting.
4:44
SPEAKER_04: Nice, nice.
4:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_04: So that happened in 1908, but probably the most significant thing was the that um Pittsburghers were still feeling the effects of the panic of 1907, which was a major financial crisis.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: You need to or or or buy silver.
5:02
SPEAKER_04: Is that what is that what uh people did during the panic of 1907?
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Maybe.
5:06
SPEAKER_04: You know more about that kind of history than I do.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: So uh there were panics all throughout.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Like it's kind of crazy to think of it now, like banks would just up and close and you'd lose all your money.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: So that's what happened.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: That would really suck.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Because there was no FDIC or anything like that.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there aren't many things I agree with FDR on, but that was probably a good move.
5:28
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, this this this panic led to a lot of businesses failing and a lot of unemployment.
5:34
SPEAKER_04: That actually leads to the creation of the Federal Reserve System, to your point about regulations.
5:38
SPEAKER_04: But here in 1908, a lot of Yinzers are still hurting economically.
5:43
SPEAKER_04: So that's that's kind of the backdrop for the 1908 baseball season.
5:48
SPEAKER_04: Let's talk about the Pirates, because they have a pretty good team during this era.
5:52
SPEAKER_04: Uh here are some of their key players.
5:55
SPEAKER_04: Hannes Wagner, not sure we really need to say a whole lot about him.
5:58
SPEAKER_04: He's a pirate legend.
6:00
SPEAKER_04: He's got a statue outside PNC Park.
6:03
SPEAKER_02: Is he is he from Carnegie or did he just live in Carnegie?
6:06
SPEAKER_02: I think it's I never know.
6:09
SPEAKER_04: He definitely lived in Carnegie.
6:11
SPEAKER_02: He's buried in Jefferson Hills, out in Pleasant Hills.
6:14
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
6:16
SPEAKER_04: Uh Fred Clark is their manager.
6:19
SPEAKER_04: Oh, God.
6:19
SPEAKER_04: But he's also he's also their starting left fielder.
6:22
SPEAKER_04: Uh people say he's kind of like the heart of the team.
6:25
SPEAKER_04: Tommy Leach is their starting third baseman.
6:28
SPEAKER_04: He's another stalwart who had been there for years at that point.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: And then the Pirates have a pretty good pitching staff.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: It's headlined by Hall of Famer Vic Willis, who's going to go 23-11 this season.
6:39
SPEAKER_04: But all five pitchers in the starting rotation win at least 15 games.
6:44
SPEAKER_04: And by this point, they actually do have like a five-man rotation.
6:48
SPEAKER_04: If you look at the number of games started for each guy, it's pretty comparable actually to modern times.
6:53
SPEAKER_04: So I think we're past that point where, you know, guys were pitching every other day.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was that was like the three-man rotation of like Cy Young and all them.
7:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
7:06
SPEAKER_04: So by this point, 1908, Cy Young's still playing, but he's 41 years old.
7:10
SPEAKER_04: He's on his like last couple of seasons.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: And all these guys are still the guys from Louisville.
7:16
SPEAKER_04: Yes, correct.
7:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:18
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
7:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:18
SPEAKER_04: Not all of them, but those guys that I mentioned.
7:21
SPEAKER_04: The core guys are all from that.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: The core guys, yep.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: The Louisville, what were they, the Colonels or the Colonels, yep.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: And yes.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: This is Barney Dreyfus owns the team at this point.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: Barney Dreyfus owns the team, yes.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
7:32
SPEAKER_02: And we're in Exposition Park, no Forbes Field.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: So.
7:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we will talk about that too.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Because it can get flooded.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: It can get it does flood occasionally.
7:42
SPEAKER_04: And that causes some problems as we'll as we'll get into it.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: I think I went over that on another podcast in the defunct parks.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Like they had the like somebody dropped jumped into like a puddle in the left field or something to make a catch or something.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh my gosh.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: 1908 baseball.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Sounds sounds fun.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's gonna get fun this year.
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh the National League in 1908 has three bona fide contenders.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: You got the Pirates, the New York as they played in those days, Giants, and the Chicago Cubs.
8:14
SPEAKER_04: And at this point, there are only three teams who have represented the National League in the World Series, and it's those three teams.
8:21
SPEAKER_04: And those are clearly the three best teams in the league as 1908 starts.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: What when was the first World Series?
8:27
SPEAKER_02: 1903.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: Oh 1908, that's right, yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Which which we lost to the Boston, whatever.
8:33
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
8:35
SPEAKER_04: The uh the Cubs are also the defending World Series champions heading into that season, and they're the favorite to repeat.
8:41
SPEAKER_04: The sporting news says that the Cubs have, quote, the greatest machine that ever worked a diamond.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: I I'm trying to think like, yeah, like what what I guess the newspaper really was the main source of information.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: Like when there wasn't like movie-toe news or anything like that, because there's no sound.
9:01
SPEAKER_04: Right.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Until 1927, yeah.
9:04
SPEAKER_04: And we're gonna have a lot of uh old-timey newspaper quotes and headlines in this episode.
9:09
SPEAKER_04: Nice.
9:11
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates don't have a whole lot of history with the Cubs at this point, but they're about to create some this season.
9:17
SPEAKER_04: They do, however, have a history with the Giants.
9:20
SPEAKER_04: So New York's manager, Steve, do you know who New York New York Giants manager was in this era?
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Was it uh what's his name?
9:27
SPEAKER_02: Gras?
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, John McGraw.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: John McGraw points his bony finger at me and tells me to get on the I'm off the bat.
9:37
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
9:38
SPEAKER_04: Moonlight Graham.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: Or no, he points to tell him to go to left field.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
9:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, one baseball writer who I read doing this research, he he compared McGraw to like Bobby Knight.
9:50
SPEAKER_04: You know, very successful coach, but very temperamental.
9:54
SPEAKER_04: Uh McGraw's longtime third base coach said, McGraw eats gunpowder for breakfast and washes it down with warm blood.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's graphic.
10:04
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: You gotta remember there's no, you know, this is like the the version of like an internet troll, kind of like, you know, people just say silly things on the internet.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: That you gotta remember that.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: People are like, oh, this is the paper, it's all serious.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't you gotta remember it wasn't all serious back then.
10:22
SPEAKER_04: That's a good point.
10:24
SPEAKER_04: So so back in 1905, which is three years earlier, the pirates are in New York to play the Giants, and the owner of the Pirates, who as we mentioned, is a guy named Barney Dreyfus, he's at the game just chatting with some friends, and for whatever reason, McCraw McGraw starts trying to heckle him by yelling, hey Barney, hey Barney.
10:44
SPEAKER_04: And when Dreyfus ignores him, McGraw then begins hurling all these accusations that Dreyfus is involved in some kind of gambling scandal and he's trying to pay off the umpires.
10:56
SPEAKER_04: And Dreyfus is really ticked off about this, and he lobbies the National League to suspend McGraw, and they do 15 games.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: For insulting my honor, sir.
11:07
SPEAKER_04: I mean, just for for being unprofessional, I guess, right?
11:10
SPEAKER_02: When when was the Black Sox scandal?
11:13
SPEAKER_02: That was until 1919, right?
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, there still always was like that kind of skeezy professional sports or kind of they gamble and people throw games, and like there was a lot of that kind of attitude towards it.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: Like college athletics was always seen as oh, nobody gambles, nobody's paying.
11:34
SPEAKER_02: They're just playing for the fun of it.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: And it's more of a that's that's why that was always considered the truer sport.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
11:42
SPEAKER_04: So so I'm not sure what McGraw had against Dreyfus, but but the Giants are ticked off because the National League president that issued that suspension, it's Harry Pulliam, who before he was elected National League president, was a former Pirates executive under Dreyfus.
11:59
SPEAKER_04: So not exactly impartial, says the Giants, in handing out the suspension.
12:04
SPEAKER_02: Sounds perfectly reasonable.
12:08
SPEAKER_04: So what ends up happening is anytime the Pirates are playing in New York, the New York fans all start yelling out, hey Barney.
12:17
SPEAKER_04: And then when the Giants come to Pittsburgh, they always had to pass by a market on the route from the hotel to the ballpark.
12:23
SPEAKER_04: Oh no.
12:24
SPEAKER_04: And so pirates fans would gather at this market to throw vegetables.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: I knew that was coming.
12:29
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:30
SPEAKER_04: To throw vegetables and stones at the Giants players.
12:34
SPEAKER_04: Yikes.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it was the rock that uh later hit Tony Kubek or whatever.
12:40
SPEAKER_04: Right.
12:41
SPEAKER_04: A lot of rocks in pirate history that played significant roles.
12:45
SPEAKER_04: But I but I feel like that Pirates Giants in that era was almost like Steelers Bengals was a few years ago.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: Right?
12:53
SPEAKER_04: Like just the the the those two teams did not like each other.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: But but by the end of the season, all three of those teams are going to end up really hating each other.
13:03
SPEAKER_04: So when the season begins, the Giants and Cubs kind of dismiss the Pirates.
13:08
SPEAKER_04: Uh McGraw says the Giants have just one team to beat, and it's the Chicago Cubs.
13:13
SPEAKER_04: Christy Mathewson, who's the legendary pitcher for the Giants, says essentially the same thing.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: And then Frank Kantz, who's the manager of the Cubs, says, quote, the Pirates are pretty sure to blow before the season is half over.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: I think he means like blow up like a steam engine, right?
13:33
SPEAKER_04: I I he means that they're not going to be any good.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: He's not it doesn't mean that in a sexual nature.
13:40
SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure what he means.
13:41
SPEAKER_04: I just know it's it's derogatory either way.
13:45
SPEAKER_04: And and Steve, I I know you hate the Cubs because they're so arrogant.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: The Chung Ho Gong thing, it's just that just irritates me still to this day.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: They ruined a man's career and got away with it.
13:56
SPEAKER_04: Because they're arrogant.
13:57
SPEAKER_04: And you'll you're gonna see that they've actually always been that way.
14:00
SPEAKER_04: And that that manager in 1908 saying the pirates are gonna you know be be uh out of it before the season's even half over is just just the tip of the iceberg.
14:12
SPEAKER_04: So the Pirates open the season with a sweep of the Cardinals, but they're missing a key player, Hannes Wagner.
14:19
SPEAKER_04: Where is Hannes Wagner?
14:22
SPEAKER_04: So here's what happened.
14:24
SPEAKER_04: Wagner Wagner makes it known that at age 34, quote, the sport has become too strenuous for me.
14:31
SPEAKER_04: And then he says he would rather spend time raising chickens and going fishing and hunting.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: All which you probably could have done in Carnegie at that time.
14:41
SPEAKER_04: Probably not a safe thing to do in Carnegie now.
14:45
SPEAKER_04: But but people are kind of bewildered because, like, yeah, he's 34, which isn't young, but it's not old either.
14:53
SPEAKER_04: Also, it's not like Wagner has lost a step.
14:56
SPEAKER_04: He had won four of the previous five National League batting titles, and the only one he lost was because he only hit 363, which put him in second place.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: 363.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: In the dead ball era.
15:12
SPEAKER_04: In the dead ball era, yes.
15:14
SPEAKER_04: So what's going on?
15:16
SPEAKER_04: People speculate that maybe there's some kind of health concerns that people don't know about.
15:22
SPEAKER_04: There are rumors that he and Fred Clark don't get along.
15:25
SPEAKER_04: There's even rumors that he's involved, like you said, Steve, in some kind of gambling scandal.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh Honas Wagner's too honest for that, but I believe him and Fred Clark probably aren't getting along.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: That I do believe.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: Fred Clark's a jerk.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: He's the one that ruined that twenty five team.
15:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:43
SPEAKER_04: For the sitting on the bench thing.
15:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like him and McKechney, the other manager.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:49
SPEAKER_04: Well, regardless, 1908 Twitter's having a field day in the comments section theorizing about why Hannes Wagner isn't playing.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the editorial section of the press is ablaze.
16:02
SPEAKER_04: Uh at the end of the day, though, Steve, I think probably this was a holdout before holdouts had been invented because Dreyfus eventually offers to double his salary, and he gets to skip spring training, which he reportedly hates.
16:17
SPEAKER_04: And sure enough, on April 17th, Tannis Wagner has a new contract and he's back with the Pirates.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Did you happen to see the terms of that contract?
16:24
SPEAKER_02: Because I would really it would probably be laughable.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Probably like what, like$1,500 or something.
16:31
SPEAKER_04: I I believe he was making five grand and he doubled it to ten grand for the season.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: For the whole season, ten grand.
16:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but this is$1908.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, you're you're like, you make that at Wendy's now, and like, you know.
16:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
16:48
SPEAKER_04: I mean, hey, I doubling your salary doesn't make me want to come back, no matter what I was doing, I think.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:56
SPEAKER_04: So even with Hannes Wagner, the Pirates start the season a little bit slow.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: They also lose a ton of games to the weather.
17:02
SPEAKER_04: Ten of their first 22 games at home are wiped out.
17:07
SPEAKER_04: So again, Steve, you mentioned Exposition Park.
17:10
SPEAKER_04: And like you said, you talked about this in our defunct uh venues episode about how it was just flooded with water constantly.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, that was where um our the chief almost drowned, I think.
17:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:23
SPEAKER_04: Uh Dreyfus commissions a local tent maker to sew a 120-foot canvas cover to keep the infield dry.
17:31
SPEAKER_04: It's baseball's first ever tarp.
17:33
SPEAKER_04: So that gets invented that year.
17:36
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and then after all those canceled games, Dreyfus has enough and decides he's gonna build a new ballpark called Forbes Field for the next season, one that is way further away from the river.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's literally up on a hill in Oakland.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: He's like, flood that.
17:51
SPEAKER_02: You gotta remember they didn't, and I think I said this before, I've said this a million times on our podcast.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: We do these old timey stuff.
17:57
SPEAKER_02: Flood control was not a thing in 1908.
17:59
SPEAKER_02: It was not until the 30s under FDR they got flood control.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: So that's why the point in the north side doesn't flood like it used to.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Like after the with the St.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: Patrick's Day flood of like I want to say 36, 37.
18:15
SPEAKER_04: So well, speaking of flood control, that's gonna transition nicely into our next uh topic here.
18:22
SPEAKER_04: In May, the Pirates play a home and home series with the Cubs, and there's controversy, which is gonna be a theme for this season.
18:29
SPEAKER_04: So Cubs outfielder Jimmy Slagle, he bunts a ball down the third baseline that looks foul, so he stops running the first base, but then the ball abruptly changes course and rolls fair and ends up being an easy out.
18:42
SPEAKER_04: So the Cubs ask Umpire Hank O'Day, and remember this umpire's name, Hank O'Day, because he's gonna show up later this season.
18:48
SPEAKER_04: Oh, jeez.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: The Cubs ask him to inspect the field, and he indeed says, hey, the ground is tilted and the pirates need to fix it.
18:57
SPEAKER_04: The pirates are incensed.
18:59
SPEAKER_04: They say, Yeah, it's tilted because we play in a freaking pond.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: So But it's gonna go both ways, right?
19:06
SPEAKER_02: I it's not like you can't fix it in between innings.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't that favor one team or the other?
19:11
SPEAKER_02: You just gotta play it out.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: Or fix it, or fix it in between the e innings after both teams have at least batted one more time.
19:20
SPEAKER_04: What was the what's the hockey arena where the boards are real bouncy?
19:23
SPEAKER_04: It was at the Nassau Coliseum, I think.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: It's it's I thought that was Detroit.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:28
SPEAKER_04: Maybe it was the old Joe Lewis arena.
19:30
SPEAKER_04: But like it's one of those things where you just have to know that that's the way this field is and you have to play accordingly.
19:38
SPEAKER_04: Right?
19:38
SPEAKER_04: Um, and and the Pirates are mad because they're like, this isn't some conspiracy theory to cheat the Cubs.
19:43
SPEAKER_04: It's just the way we had to had to had to do the um landscaping because otherwise, you know, it's it's it gets flooded anyway.
19:52
SPEAKER_04: So that's just the start of some Pirates' Cubs controversy.
19:56
SPEAKER_04: There'll be more of that later.
19:57
SPEAKER_04: Uh meanwhile, the Pirates are stacking wins, and it's largely because of Honis Wagner.
20:04
SPEAKER_04: So here is the season that Wagner has in 1908.
20:07
SPEAKER_04: He leads the National League in batting average, hits, doubles, triples, total bases, RBIs, on base percentage, slugging percentage, and stolen bases.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: He finishes second in runs scored and home runs.
20:24
SPEAKER_04: One baseball historian says it's the greatest single season in major league history.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's crazy.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: And I guess Babe Ruth wasn't around yet, so I don't know who led the league in home runs that year.
20:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but he still finished second.
20:42
SPEAKER_04: Other teams take notice too.
20:43
SPEAKER_04: A pitcher for the Giants says, quote, Pittsburgh may be a one-man team, but that one man is a dilly.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: He's a dilly.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: Dilly.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Sounds like a compliment.
20:55
SPEAKER_04: I think so.
20:57
SPEAKER_04: In June, the Bucks go on a 20 to 8 run, and by the end of that month, the Pirates are in first place.
21:03
SPEAKER_04: It's the first time since 1903 that the Pirates have been in first place this late into the season, the end of June.
21:10
SPEAKER_04: So you'd think with the Pirates crushing it, that baseball fever would be catching on in Pittsburgh, right?
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Got the baseball fever.
21:18
SPEAKER_04: Well, not exactly.
21:20
SPEAKER_04: The team often plays in front of crowds that are only about two or three thousand people.
21:24
SPEAKER_04: And remember, Steve, Pittsburgh's a big city back then.
21:27
SPEAKER_04: It's about the same size as Boston in terms of po population.
21:30
SPEAKER_04: Huh.
21:32
SPEAKER_04: Uh, and and that lack of fan attendance is a story that's picked up on by the media.
21:36
SPEAKER_04: The sporting news blames it on the panic of nineteen oh seven.
21:40
SPEAKER_04: They say, quote, the fans are without the necessary funds owing to the shutting down of so many of the mills on which the population of the city lives.
21:49
SPEAKER_04: So, you know, they're saying, Well, yeah, that makes sense.
21:51
SPEAKER_04: It's not that people don't want to support the team, it's that they don't have disposable income to go to a baseball game when they, you know, don't have a job.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
22:01
SPEAKER_04: Fred Clark, though, he isn't buying this economic hardship nonsense.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: Enter Fred Clark, the ultimate bad guy.
22:09
SPEAKER_04: He says, quote, the fans have not supported us.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: Any glory that might accrue to the city from the way we finish the season belongs to the players and not to the people.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, what a jerk.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: Uh he also says the boys did not depend on the plotits of the multitude, and they paid no attention to the smears and criticisms that were hurled at them.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: I guess he's kind of standing up for his team, but at the same time, geez.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean Barney Dreyfus has got to be like, don't crap on the paying customers, okay?
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
22:42
SPEAKER_04: Right, especially the paying customers who are going through a bunch of economic hardship.
22:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:48
SPEAKER_04: Uh in early July, the Pirates take a train to Chicago for a doubleheader with the Cubs.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, why didn't they take their commuter jet?
22:56
SPEAKER_02: Come on now.
22:57
SPEAKER_04: I think it was broken down, so they had to slum in on a train.
23:02
SPEAKER_04: So they're yeah, so they go to Chicago for this doubleheader, but when they show up, Cubs manager Frank Chance, remember the guy that said the Pirates were going to blow.
23:10
SPEAKER_04: He says, Doubleheader?
23:12
SPEAKER_04: What doubleheader?
23:13
SPEAKER_04: We're only playing one game today, not two games.
23:16
SPEAKER_04: Well, as it turns out, the Cubs have a bunch of players who are either sick or injured.
23:22
SPEAKER_04: So of course they don't want to play two games and lose ground in the standings.
23:25
SPEAKER_04: And in fact, one game that they did have to play, they lost 10 to 5.
23:31
SPEAKER_04: And Fred Clark goes to the National League president and he says, hey, we should get two wins, right?
23:36
SPEAKER_04: There's the 10-5 game that we won.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: And then the forfeit.
23:39
SPEAKER_04: And then a forfeit.
23:40
SPEAKER_04: Yep, because they were supposed to play doubleheader.
23:43
SPEAKER_04: If they don't want to, that's fine.
23:45
SPEAKER_04: But then we win.
23:47
SPEAKER_04: So the National League president is Harry Polyam.
23:50
SPEAKER_04: Remember, he was criticized a few years before this for.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: So now he's got to go the other way, isn't he?
23:56
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
23:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:57
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
23:58
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
23:58
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
23:58
SPEAKER_04: Because when he sided with the Pirates, you know, everybody's like, oh yeah, of course you sided with the Pirates because you used to work for them.
24:04
SPEAKER_02: How can you not know a game was scheduled?
24:07
SPEAKER_02: Either it's scheduled or not.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, what kind of insanity is this?
24:11
SPEAKER_04: Harry Polyam says that since the Cubs never officially notified the league that there was going to be a doubleheader, that the Pirates can't claim a forfeit.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: What are you talking about?
24:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, when was this game supposed to be?
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Was it like a rain out from another day or something?
24:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
24:31
SPEAKER_04: So keep that in mind, because that one win that the Pirates do not get is going to come into play heavily later this season.
24:39
SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
24:40
SPEAKER_04: When they actually do have to play that game.
24:43
SPEAKER_04: So the Pirates are still in first place after all this, but then they stumble.
24:47
SPEAKER_04: They lose three in a row to the fifth the fifth place Phillies.
24:51
SPEAKER_04: In one of those games, Wagner goes 0 for 5 at the plate, he commits two errors, trips in the field, and makes the last out looking at a called third strike.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: I wonder if Connie, do you think Connie Mack was the mad manager of the Phillies at that point?
25:05
SPEAKER_04: No, he was the A's manager.
25:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know who the Phillies manager was, but they weren't very good.
25:13
SPEAKER_04: And the Pirates lost three in a row.
25:15
SPEAKER_04: And and I I love this headline from the Pittsburgh Post.
25:19
SPEAKER_04: Here's the headline.
25:20
SPEAKER_04: Boyfleigers never played a more miserable brand of baseball.
25:24
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: Boy, there's a there's like an animosity between the city and the team that's unheard of.
25:31
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's gonna be like, ah, stack with you.
25:34
SPEAKER_02: You think we don't have any money?
25:36
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: That's wild.
25:39
SPEAKER_04: I also love that you could just copy paste that headline for most of the Pirates games today.
25:44
SPEAKER_04: Well, the League has never played a more miserable brand of baseball.
25:49
SPEAKER_04: So that losing streak puts the Cubs back in first.
25:52
SPEAKER_04: Meanwhile, the Giants are right behind both teams.
25:55
SPEAKER_04: At this point, all three teams are trying to gain an edge on each other.
25:59
SPEAKER_04: There's a pitcher named Rube Marquard who's pitching in a different league called the American Association, and the Giants end up offering him the unheard-of sum of eleven thousand dollars.
26:10
SPEAKER_04: Eleven thousand dollars to play for them mid-season.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: What's next, Tim?
26:16
SPEAKER_02: What's next?
26:18
SPEAKER_02: I know.
26:20
SPEAKER_04: Next thing you know, we'll have like the first$20,000 contract.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:24
SPEAKER_04: That uh that angers the Cubs because they were trying to sign that guy too.
26:28
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Pirates for actually claim that they did not want the guy.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: So pirates.
26:38
SPEAKER_04: We didn't even want him.
26:40
SPEAKER_04: A bidding war.
26:41
SPEAKER_04: We're not interested.
26:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Dreyfus says that uh Rue Marquard, quote, has a twisted neck and a fixed eye, whatever that means.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: Like it's fixed, like working, or fixed is like it can't move around.
26:55
SPEAKER_04: I I don't know.
26:56
SPEAKER_04: What does a twisted neck mean?
26:59
SPEAKER_02: Was he like the hunchback?
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Was he quasimodo up there on the pitcher's mouth?
27:04
SPEAKER_04: It it actually does end up being a splashy signing for the Giants because Rue Marcour turns out to be a Hall of Fame pitcher.
27:10
SPEAKER_04: So Pirates, once again, their scouting department.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Maybe his eye was fixed.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: He could really see out of it.
27:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, maybe.
27:18
SPEAKER_04: Maybe.
27:18
SPEAKER_04: Speaking of the Giants, they come to Pittsburgh for a four-game series in July.
27:23
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates win the first two games, uh, one of them on a walk-off inside the park home run by Tommy Leach.
27:29
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but the Giants win the last two games, which are both on the same day.
27:33
SPEAKER_04: And I'm I'm guessing, Steve, that they keep playing all these doubleheaders because of all those rainouts early in the season.
27:39
SPEAKER_04: But I I I imagine that has to be getting exhausting for the Pirates players, right?
27:43
SPEAKER_02: Especially the pitching.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, you have to pitch a lot.
27:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a good point.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates then go to New York later in the month, and it's huge.
27:53
SPEAKER_04: The Giants estimate crowds of 30,000 people, which at the time was unheard of for a baseball game.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Is this in the polo?
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Are they in the polo grounds yet?
28:01
SPEAKER_04: They are in the polo grounds.
28:02
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever seen a picture of the polo grounds?
28:05
SPEAKER_04: I have.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: Now remember, there were multiple iterations of the polo grounds.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: It looked like a bathtub that you played baseball in.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Like, wasn't Dead Center like 450 feet or something stupid like that?
28:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the a lot of the ballparks were like that.
28:20
SPEAKER_04: That's why Tommy Leach had the inside the park home run walk-off, because a lot of home runs were inside the park, I think, at that point.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh that series in New York is also a split, just like the one in Pittsburgh.
28:34
SPEAKER_04: There is one game where Hannes Wagner goes five for five, and each time he gets a hit, he turns to Giants outfielder Mike Donlin, who was neck and neck with Wagner all year for the batting title, and he holds up how many hits he has with his fingers.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: He's talking some trash.
28:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, some 1908 trash talking.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: He's like, there's three, there's four.
28:55
SPEAKER_04: Like every time he gets on base, he turns to Mike Donlin.
28:57
SPEAKER_04: He's like holding up how many hits he has.
28:59
SPEAKER_04: So that's pr that's pretty funny.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Field that ball in your enormous outfield.
29:06
SPEAKER_04: And you'd think that the New York fans would, I don't know, boo him or whatever, but people people really love Wagner.
29:13
SPEAKER_04: In fact, the the New York fans not only give him a standing ovation after he gets those five hits, they actually try to carry him off on their shoulders after the game.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's odd.
29:24
SPEAKER_02: So he so they're getting more love from away fans than Pittsburgh fans at this point.
29:29
SPEAKER_04: Apparently.
29:30
SPEAKER_04: Apparently, Fred Clark would think so.
29:32
SPEAKER_04: And and and you know, I I did dig into this a little bit.
29:36
SPEAKER_04: I I guess it wasn't terribly uncommon for fans to root for star players who came to town like from other teams.
29:43
SPEAKER_04: Probably, you know, hey, I still want my team to win.
29:45
SPEAKER_04: People still do that.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't think people in other cities, if they know Skeens is pitching, go, you know, somebody you know in St.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Louis or something, you know, would go and see a game just because Skeens is pitching.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: I went to a game because Mark McGuire was playing and the Pirates stopped just to see him hit a home run.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I saw his like 53rd or 54th home run that year.
30:05
SPEAKER_04: So Yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you're right.
30:07
SPEAKER_04: I guess I guess that's not unheard of.
30:09
SPEAKER_04: Um I I would say it's it's definitely impressive being that it happened in New York.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, carrying them off the field is a little much, but I mean I see people cheer for you know Flyers fans showed Mario, so don't figure it out.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
30:24
SPEAKER_04: That's true.
30:25
SPEAKER_04: The sporting news says, quote, it is seldom indeed that New Yorkers can see good in anything that does not bear the Gotham trademark, but Wagner's play was so great as to demand recognition anywhere.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know they were called Gotham all the way back in 1908.
30:39
SPEAKER_04: Apparently they were.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Hey, cool.
30:41
SPEAKER_04: So fun fact.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:44
SPEAKER_04: At the end of July, the Pirates are clinging the first place, they're half a game ahead of Chicago, they're two games ahead of New York.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: That half a game's gonna come back to haunt us, ain't it?
30:55
SPEAKER_04: Oh, you just wait and see.
30:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_04: Uh in August, the Giants get red hot, they sweep the Pirates in a four-game series at Pittsburgh, they win a bunch of other games, and now they have a three-game lead on both the Pirates and the Cubs.
31:09
SPEAKER_04: The Pittsburgh Dispatch writes that quote, dejection has pulsated through and oozed out of the pores of the Pittsburgh fandom.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: All five of them.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I think I think in their defense, Exposition Park, it was a very small park.
31:27
SPEAKER_04: Again, it was I think it was less about the uh I think people were fans.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: It just if if if you if you just got out of this economic Yeah, you just didn't have money to go to a baseball game.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: You're too busy putting bread and stuff on your table.
31:44
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there was no unemployment benefits back then either.
31:47
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
31:48
SPEAKER_04: So um but hey, three games out at first with a month to play, Steve.
31:54
SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's not a bad spot to be in.
31:56
SPEAKER_04: We'd kill for that today, wouldn't we?
31:59
SPEAKER_02: Pitch pitch schemes every day.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:03
SPEAKER_04: So so now it's a full sprint to the finish line in September.
32:07
SPEAKER_04: All three teams have a realistic shot at the pennant.
32:10
SPEAKER_04: And here is where the 1908 poop really starts to hit the fan.
32:15
SPEAKER_04: So on September 4th, the Pirates are playing the Cubs in Pittsburgh.
32:21
SPEAKER_04: So huge game, obviously, right, at this stage of the season with all three of those teams battling for first.
32:26
SPEAKER_04: It's a scoreless game in the bottom of the tenth.
32:30
SPEAKER_04: Two outs, bases are loaded, and Chief Wilson is at the plate for the Buccos.
32:36
SPEAKER_04: He lines a single center field.
32:38
SPEAKER_04: Fred Clark, who was on third, he crosses home plate.
32:41
SPEAKER_04: So game over, pirates win, right?
32:44
SPEAKER_02: Chief forgets is the touch first or something, doesn't he?
32:48
SPEAKER_04: Well, uh close.
32:49
SPEAKER_04: The guy on first for the Pirates is Warren Gill.
32:52
SPEAKER_04: And when he sees that Clark crosses home plate, he dogs off the field without going to second base.
32:58
SPEAKER_04: So Steve, why is that relevant?
33:00
SPEAKER_04: I mean, the run scored already, right?
33:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh no, you gotta reach your base in front of you, I do believe.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Even if like I know you at least have to go to first.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, yo, even on a fly out.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
33:14
SPEAKER_04: Well, this was a hit.
33:15
SPEAKER_04: So the guy again, the bases were loaded.
33:17
SPEAKER_02: He has to touch first, and that guy has to touch second.
33:20
SPEAKER_04: Yes, exactly.
33:22
SPEAKER_04: Because otherwise it's a force out.
33:24
SPEAKER_04: No matter like it doesn't matter how long it takes or who's who touches which base, it's a force out.
33:30
SPEAKER_04: Uh so the second baseman for Chicago is a guy named Johnny Evers.
33:34
SPEAKER_04: And this guy is like a real student of the game.
33:37
SPEAKER_04: He actually writes a book later about the science of baseball.
33:40
SPEAKER_04: And he's also very like Belichekian.
33:44
SPEAKER_04: You know, he knows the role book and he's gonna exploit it wherever he can.
33:48
SPEAKER_04: So as the Pirates are celebrating the win, Johnny Evers goes out to center field, gets the ball, runs over to second base and steps on it, and he yells to the umpire that Warren Gill should be the third out, and the game should still be tied at zero, and we should be going into the 11th inning.
34:04
SPEAKER_04: The umpire is Hank O'Day, that umpire that we mentioned earlier.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: This poor guy, he can't catch a break.
34:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:10
SPEAKER_04: But O'Day is like, no, I'm not calling him out.
34:14
SPEAKER_04: He says, I was watching home plate.
34:16
SPEAKER_04: By the way, back then some of those games only had one umpire.
34:19
SPEAKER_04: Right.
34:20
SPEAKER_04: And this was one of those games.
34:22
SPEAKER_04: So Hank O'Day's like, I I didn't even see whether or not he touched seconds, so the game's over.
34:27
SPEAKER_04: Pirates won.
34:28
SPEAKER_04: And the Cubs.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: So they went to the instant replay, right?
34:33
SPEAKER_04: They did not.
34:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the Cubs are really upset about this.
34:38
SPEAKER_04: Uh they file a formal protest with the league.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: They have a legit complaint, actually.
34:43
SPEAKER_04: Right, saying that the Pittsburgh wins should be vacated.
34:46
SPEAKER_04: Uh that protest does get shot down.
34:49
SPEAKER_04: But what it does is it kind of puts everyone on alert.
34:52
SPEAKER_04: And I think I think it's kind of like the tuck roll.
34:57
SPEAKER_04: Like before, no one cared about this, but but um, and in fact, that's probably why Warren Gell didn't touch second base, because yeah, that's the role, but we never really you know enforced it necessarily before because once the the once a guy gets a hit that the game's over, right?
35:13
SPEAKER_04: There's no reason to to okay, so you didn't formally touch second base, but who cares?
35:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh but now because this incident happened, everybody is painfully aware that you know this is the role.
35:26
SPEAKER_04: And the Pittsburgh press says, quote, it is a play that doesn't come often, but next time it happens, it's safe to predict that none who took part in yesterday's game will overlook the importance of touching the next base ahead of them.
35:41
SPEAKER_04: So remember that.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh geez.
35:43
SPEAKER_04: Johnny Evers, the second baseman for the Cubs, he even claims, and there's absolutely no way to verify this, but he even claims that O'Day, the umpire, approaches him at the team hotel that night and basically apologizes for blowing the call.
35:58
SPEAKER_04: So that's that's what the Cubs say happened.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
36:03
SPEAKER_02: Try.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: Try in your non-World Series Chicago Cubs.
36:10
SPEAKER_04: So by late September, the Giants are coming off of an 11-game winning streak.
36:15
SPEAKER_04: That's really good timing.
36:17
SPEAKER_02: Holy cow.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: How will the pirates overcome that?
36:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:21
SPEAKER_04: So the Giants are still in first place by three games, and the New York media says, hey, this thing is over.
36:27
SPEAKER_04: The New York world estimates the chances of the Cubs or Pirates overtaking the Giants are akin to that of a snowfall on the 4th of July.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: Get out your snow gear.
36:39
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
36:39
SPEAKER_04: The Giants get cocky too.
36:41
SPEAKER_04: A bunch of their players make statements in the media about how it's already over.
36:44
SPEAKER_04: Pitcher Red Ames says, quote, I can't see how we lose unless we all drop dead.
36:51
SPEAKER_04: Well, that's not all that's not very smart.
36:54
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates beat the Giants twice at the polo grounds to pull closer, and then the Cubs come in and sweep a double header against them.
37:01
SPEAKER_04: So just like that, the Giants, who you know had this thing all wrapped up, they've dropped four in a row, and not just four in a row, four in a row to the two teams chasing them.
37:10
SPEAKER_04: So on the morning of September 23rd, which is pretty late in the season, the Pirates are one game out of first, and the Giants and Cubs are tied for first, and the Giants and Cubs are going to play each other again at the polo grounds that day.
37:25
SPEAKER_04: And what happens next has been called the most controversial game in baseball history.
37:32
SPEAKER_04: So what happens?
37:34
SPEAKER_04: New York and Chicago are tied in the bottom of the ninth inning.
37:37
SPEAKER_04: The Giants have a guy on first and a guy on third with two outs.
37:40
SPEAKER_04: Al Burnwell is at the plate, and boom, he hits a single down the first base side, and that's game.
37:46
SPEAKER_04: The Giants are now back in first.
37:48
SPEAKER_04: They're gonna once again cruise to the pennant, right?
37:51
SPEAKER_04: Well, hold everything.
37:52
SPEAKER_04: When the Giants get that game-winning hit, all of their fans pour out onto the field to celebrate.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think I remember this.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: Don't they have to this is this is what's his name's boner, isn't it?
38:03
SPEAKER_02: It is.
38:03
SPEAKER_04: This is a runner at first for the Giants is a 19-year-old rookie named Fred Merkel.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: Merkel's boner.
38:10
SPEAKER_04: He sees all the fans coming, so he's did they they they fight the fans for the ball?
38:16
SPEAKER_02: And oh, this is crazy.
38:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
38:18
SPEAKER_04: So so so Fred Merkel for the Giants is on first.
38:21
SPEAKER_04: He sees this throng of people coming.
38:23
SPEAKER_04: He's like, I'm I'm out of here.
38:24
SPEAKER_04: He runs into the dugout without going to second base.
38:28
SPEAKER_04: So guess who notices that?
38:30
SPEAKER_04: Cubs, second baseman, Johnny Evers, the Belichican guy that that had the incident in the Pirates game.
38:37
SPEAKER_04: And he uh he somehow retrieves the ball from the melee of people still.
38:41
SPEAKER_02: I think he had to fight like in the like I remember this from the Ken Burns baseball series.
38:46
SPEAKER_02: Like he literally had to fight like fans for the ball, like fans.
38:50
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's a whole there's a whole disputed story about how he got the ball.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: Or if it even is the ball.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: They don't even know if it was, it could have been a ball.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:00
SPEAKER_02: He touched second base with a baseball.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
39:05
SPEAKER_04: That's that's exactly right.
39:07
SPEAKER_04: He he emerges at some point with a baseball, stands on second base yelling, Merkel is out via a force out, and so the run doesn't count.
39:15
SPEAKER_04: Guess who the home plate umpire is?
39:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, please don't be this poor guy.
39:20
SPEAKER_04: It's Hank O'Day.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: You know who he is?
39:24
SPEAKER_01: He's Phil Luckett.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Is he a relative of Phil Luckett?
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Poor guy.
39:30
SPEAKER_04: So so so yeah, same umpire from the Pirates game a few weeks earlier, who supposedly even apologized to Evers for He's not blowing this one, is he?
39:39
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that's exactly what happens.
39:41
SPEAKER_04: This time this time, Hank O'Day's like, Yep, you're right, Johnny Evers.
39:46
SPEAKER_04: Merkel is out and the run doesn't count.
39:48
SPEAKER_04: And furthermore, since the fans had stormed the field already, and because it was starting to get dark at the same time, had to suspend the game.
39:56
SPEAKER_02: There's no lights.
39:57
SPEAKER_04: No lights at the polo grants back then.
39:59
SPEAKER_04: No, they don't suspend the game.
40:00
SPEAKER_04: They Hank O'Day declares it a tie.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's right.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they could have ties.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: I forgot about tie.
40:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:06
SPEAKER_04: Well, they can still have ties today.
40:08
SPEAKER_04: I mean, remember the Pirates had a tie with the Cubs less than 10 years ago.
40:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
40:12
SPEAKER_04: So, but but yeah, both teams are outraged.
40:15
SPEAKER_04: The Giants say we won.
40:16
SPEAKER_04: We got the game-winning hit.
40:18
SPEAKER_04: You know, who cares if the guy touched second or not?
40:20
SPEAKER_04: The Cubs say no, we won because we forced extra innings and we couldn't play those extra innings thanks to your fans storming the field, so it should be a forfeit.
40:29
SPEAKER_02: No, it should have been a rey should have picked up and played the game at another date.
40:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh that that's again, this is what both teams are saying.
40:39
SPEAKER_04: Giants say we won, Cubs say we won.
40:41
SPEAKER_04: I don't think either of them wants to replay it.
40:42
SPEAKER_04: They just want the victory.
40:45
SPEAKER_04: Uh that's a moment that lives forever.
40:47
SPEAKER_04: Steve said it's given the unfortunate name of Merkel's boner.
40:51
SPEAKER_04: So so while that whole far firestorm is going on, the Pirates the Pirates are actually making a nice little late season run.
40:57
SPEAKER_04: They complete a six-game home and away sweep of the Cardinals.
41:02
SPEAKER_04: As they head to Chicago for the final game of the season, the Pirates are very much back in the race.
41:08
SPEAKER_04: So on the morning of Sunday, October 4th, here is where we stand.
41:12
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates and Cubs each have one game left, and it's against each other.
41:16
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
41:17
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates are 98-55.
41:20
SPEAKER_04: The Cubs are 97-55 and 95-1.
41:26
SPEAKER_04: Nice.
41:27
SPEAKER_04: And the Giants are still lurking back there with 95 wins, but they still have a few games left.
41:32
SPEAKER_04: So if the Pirates can beat the Cubs that day, they win the pennant.
41:35
SPEAKER_04: Now, it's kind of cheap that we're even in this position because remember, yeah, these two teams were supposed to play a doubleheader back in June, one that the Pirates probably would have won, but the Cubs weaseled out of playing that second game.
41:48
SPEAKER_04: So now we're playing this game here in October instead.
41:52
SPEAKER_04: So the Pirates should have already had the win.
41:54
SPEAKER_04: Um, but here we are.
41:57
SPEAKER_04: Vick Willis starts for the Pirates.
41:59
SPEAKER_04: Mordecai Three Finger Brown starts for the Cubs.
42:01
SPEAKER_04: Both of those guys are in the Hall of Fame.
42:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think he really did have three fingers, too, didn't he?
42:06
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:08
SPEAKER_04: And we talked about how the the injures were not really coming to games that season.
42:13
SPEAKER_04: Well, they're all in now.
42:15
SPEAKER_04: Downtown Pittsburgh, remember this game's in Chicago.
42:17
SPEAKER_04: Downtown Pittsburgh is packed with thousands of people listening to men with megaphones bell out score updates from the tops of the newspaper buildings.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because they're probably getting it over the telegraph.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
42:29
SPEAKER_02: I don't think they had phones even.
42:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know.
42:32
SPEAKER_04: They had phones, but they I think they that's how they were getting the score updates was via telegraph.
42:37
SPEAKER_04: Certainly couldn't refresh your phone to see what the score was.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: You could refresh the megaphone guy.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:45
SPEAKER_04: Uh it's also the first time ever that Pittsburgh's evening papers print extra editions just to give an account of the game.
42:52
SPEAKER_04: So it's a big deal in Pittsburgh.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: Baseball fever is in town.
42:56
SPEAKER_04: Well, like I said, I I really do think it wasn't so much that the fans weren't excited, it's just that they couldn't necessarily uh financially afford to come to as many games.
43:06
SPEAKER_04: The uh the West Side Grounds in Chicago, this is pre-rightly field.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just thinking that this is wow.
43:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's crammed with what is considered at the time to be the largest crowd ever to see a single game in the history of baseball.
43:20
SPEAKER_04: It turns out to be not a good game for the Buckers.
43:24
SPEAKER_04: The Cubs build a 5-2 lead going in the ninth inning, but just for good measure, one last controversy.
43:31
SPEAKER_04: Wagner leads off the ninth inning with a single, and then second baseman Ed Abaticchio hits a drive down the right field line that's right on the line between fair and foul.
43:42
SPEAKER_04: And it's called foul.
43:43
SPEAKER_04: Guess who the umpire is, Steve?
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Poor Hank.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: It's every day.
43:56
SPEAKER_04: He just shows up at every major event.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:59
unknown: So
44:00
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, so Hank O'Day says, nope, that's a foul ball.
44:03
SPEAKER_04: And because it was so packed, the crowd is actually lined up like down the foul line.
44:07
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
44:08
SPEAKER_04: So that doesn't help.
44:09
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates flip out, they rush onto the field to argue the call, but to no avail.
44:14
SPEAKER_04: And then Abaticchio strikes out, and the Pirates lose.
44:17
SPEAKER_04: And that's the season, because now the Pirates are 98 and 56, but the Cubs are 98, 55, and 1 because of that Merkel game.
44:26
SPEAKER_04: So the Cubs finish a half game ahead.
44:29
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
44:30
SPEAKER_04: So Hannes Wagner, he's inconsolable.
44:32
SPEAKER_04: He says he would have traded all his personal achievements for a pennant.
44:35
SPEAKER_04: The New York Times headline reads Hans Wagner, heartbroken, will kill 10,000 birds this winter trying to forget Pirates' defeat.
44:44
SPEAKER_02: Well, those birds had a coming.
44:46
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they'll all be St.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Louis Cardinals.
44:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
44:49
SPEAKER_02: Maybe she'd go bear hunting.
44:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, maybe.
44:54
SPEAKER_04: Hannis Wagner is also upset because he didn't really play a particularly good game.
44:58
SPEAKER_04: He actually makes two errors in that game in Chicago.
45:00
SPEAKER_04: The Pittsburgh Post says, quote, Wagner played the field all afternoon much much like a cheese sandwich without the mustard.
45:09
SPEAKER_02: I don't like a cheese sandwich without a mustard.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: I don't much like a cheese sandwich in general, but hey.
45:14
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
45:15
SPEAKER_04: I mean, sure.
45:16
SPEAKER_04: Whatever, whatever flick.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: Was it spicy brown mustard?
45:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
45:21
SPEAKER_04: I just that just sounds gross to me.
45:23
SPEAKER_04: Cheese sandwich on a mustard.
45:24
SPEAKER_04: I know people do make grilled cheese sandwiches today with mustard, but I don't know.
45:28
SPEAKER_02: What kind of cheese were they using back in 1908?
45:30
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: Good question.
45:34
SPEAKER_04: Something that went well with mustard, apparently.
45:38
SPEAKER_04: After the game in Chicago, Barney Dreyfus, he goes into the Chicago Clubhouse to congratulate the Cubs.
45:44
SPEAKER_04: He's he says, you know, it's a shame that somebody had to lose.
45:48
SPEAKER_04: To which Cubs owner Charles Murphy says, You're a better loser than I am, Barney.
45:53
SPEAKER_04: In fact, you're the best loser in the league.
45:56
SPEAKER_04: What a D.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
45:58
SPEAKER_02: Okay then.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: So much for being magnanimous.
46:02
SPEAKER_02: Magnanimous?
46:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's the word I'm looking for.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
46:06
SPEAKER_02: There's just a reason to really dislike the Cubs.
46:09
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, again, like I said, Steve.
46:12
SPEAKER_04: That was classy.
46:13
SPEAKER_04: Like he came into the Chicago Clubhouse to tell them, hey, congratulations.
46:16
SPEAKER_04: That was a really hard fought season.
46:18
SPEAKER_04: You guys literally beat us up by a half game, which you know, a game we probably should have won back in June.
46:24
SPEAKER_04: But he's still going in there to just be classy and say congratulations.
46:27
SPEAKER_04: And he's like, You're the best loser in the league.
46:29
SPEAKER_04: I mean, that that's just what a jerk.
46:32
SPEAKER_04: So the Pirates disperse because their season's over.
46:36
SPEAKER_04: Or is it?
46:38
SPEAKER_04: Uh oh.
46:38
SPEAKER_04: So this whole time there are all these appeals being filed with the league over the Merkle game.
46:44
SPEAKER_04: Again, both the Cubs and Giants felt that they should have been awarded the win rather than a tie.
46:50
SPEAKER_04: And Polium, the National League president, and the National League Board of Directors, come out on October 6th.
46:56
SPEAKER_04: This is two days after the pirate season had apparently ended, and they make the official declaration of what you said should have happened, Steve, that the game must be replayed.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just from that point.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:09
SPEAKER_04: Well, they're actually going to replay the entire game.
47:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
47:13
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_04: But but either way, they're not going to let it end in a tie.
47:18
SPEAKER_04: So at this point, the Cubs and Pirates had zero games left, uh, but the Giants with 96 wins still had two games left against the Braves.
47:26
SPEAKER_04: And if the Giants lose either of those games to the Braves and then beat the Cubs, then it'll be a three-way tie for first because now instead of the Cubs being 98, 55, and 1, they would be 98 and 56, just like the Buckos.
47:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
47:41
SPEAKER_04: And this is absolutely nuts.
47:43
SPEAKER_04: I mean, the closest thing I can compare it to, like imagine if the Steelers would be in week 18 of the NFL season in a scenario where they had to win to make the playoffs, and then they lost.
47:55
SPEAKER_04: Right?
47:56
SPEAKER_04: And so on Monday, the players all clean out their lockers, and then on Tuesday, Mike Tomlin has like his end of the season press conference.
48:02
SPEAKER_04: But then on Wednesday, it's like the NFL comes out and says, Well, you know, we need to replay this November game between the Bengals and Ravens.
48:10
SPEAKER_04: And if the Bengals win, then the Stewart would still make the playoffs.
48:14
SPEAKER_04: That's like what's happening here.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: Jeez.
48:18
SPEAKER_02: So they need who to win?
48:19
SPEAKER_02: The Giants to win.
48:20
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
48:22
SPEAKER_04: And unfortunately for the Pirates, that does not happen.
48:25
SPEAKER_04: Uh the Giants win both gate both of the games against the Braves, and then Chicago wins the replayed Merkel game.
48:31
SPEAKER_04: So now that gives the Cubs 99 wins, and it's them, not the Pirates or the Giants, who will play Detroit in the World Series.
48:40
SPEAKER_04: And that officially ends the Pirates season for a second time.
48:44
SPEAKER_04: Yikes.
48:46
SPEAKER_02: That was a crazy season.
48:47
SPEAKER_04: That's that's nuts, isn't it?
48:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
48:51
SPEAKER_04: So let's talk about the aftermath of all this.
48:53
SPEAKER_04: Uh, the Pirates are understandably upset about the way the season went down, and of course, you know, how it ended, but they get revenge in the best way possible by winning the whole entire thing the following year in 1909.
49:05
SPEAKER_04: So they do get their championship just one year late.
49:09
SPEAKER_04: The Giants are also livid at how things went down.
49:12
SPEAKER_04: The owner of the Giants hands out medals for the players inscribed to quote the real champions of 1908.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: The real champions, really?
49:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe your guy should have stepped on second.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:31
SPEAKER_04: The Giants disagree with the uh the Cubs beat Detroit in the World Series and then proceed to go the next 108 years without winning it again.
49:42
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
49:44
SPEAKER_02: So they had never won a World Series in Wrigley until a couple years ago.
49:49
SPEAKER_04: That's correct.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: You're kidding me.
49:52
SPEAKER_04: It was 108 years.
49:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: Say it never won a World Series in Wrigley Field.
49:59
SPEAKER_04: 1908.
50:00
SPEAKER_04: This was the last time they had won it.
50:02
SPEAKER_04: Oh, there's until 2016.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: That is insane.
50:05
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: Could we go that way with PNC Park?
50:08
SPEAKER_04: Could a hundred years from now be like somebody be marveling at No, they'll build a six new ballparks before then, and we'll all pay for them with taxes.
50:19
SPEAKER_04: Uh Hannes Wagner, who was you know supposedly set to retire before the nineteen oh eight season, he ends up playing another decade for the Pirates.
50:27
SPEAKER_04: So so much for like my body's breaking down and I can't play this game anymore.
50:32
SPEAKER_04: Um Harry Pulliam, the National League president, very tragically commits suicide the following year.
50:39
SPEAKER_04: We actually talked about that in our tragedies episode.
50:42
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, was it because of all the stuff that happened during the 1908 season that he took a bunch of flack for, you know, the games that should have been forfeited and the Merkel thing.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, there's also rumors that, you know, he was like allegedly a closeted homosexual, and that was, you know, something you couldn't do back then.
51:01
SPEAKER_04: No one will ever know the answer to that, right?
51:04
SPEAKER_04: Um, when he dies in 1909, every National League team sends a delegation to Polium's funeral except the Giants.
51:13
SPEAKER_04: Classy.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: Classy.
51:16
SPEAKER_04: Uh Hank O'Day goes on to umpire until 1927 and then is present at the JFK assassination, the Berlin Wall coming down, and the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.
51:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:30
SPEAKER_04: Not really in the last part.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: So there you go.
51:32
SPEAKER_04: There's there's I just thought it was an interesting, again, a long-forgotten season that no one would ever probably know about.
51:41
SPEAKER_04: And uh a lot of really interesting things happened.
51:43
SPEAKER_04: The Pirates kind of got hosed a little bit.
51:45
SPEAKER_04: But again, all three of those teams would say they got hosed one way or the other, maybe except the Cubs, since they they won the whole thing.
51:52
SPEAKER_04: Uh, but they did a lot of complaining along the way, too.
51:55
SPEAKER_04: So, like I said, a lot of controversy, a lot of chaos.
51:58
SPEAKER_02: Can we both go back and protest the 1908 World Series so it gets taken away from them and given to the Giants and the Pirates instead?
52:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, the Giants already have their medals that say real real champions.
52:15
SPEAKER_04: So that's our episode, folks.
52:17
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for listening.
52:18
SPEAKER_04: Once again, check us out on social media, tell us what you think of the show, and we'll catch you next time.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Katie, Katie was baseball mad, had the fever and had it bad.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Just to room for the hometown through every zoo.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Katie Blue.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: On a Saturday, her young boat called to see if she'd like to go to see a show.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: But Miss Kate said no.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what you can do.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: Take me out to the ball game.
52:52
SPEAKER_00: Take me out with the crowds.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: Buy me some peanuts and cracker jacks.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if I never get back.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Let me root.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: Root, root for the home team.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: If they don't win, it's a shame.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: All it's one, two, three, strikes, you're out at the old ball game.