Latest / Common Mystics / 157: Massacre in the Canyon in San Bernardino Co., CA

Transcript

157: Massacre in the Canyon in San Bernardino Co., CA · Common Mystics

• 0:10
  Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we head back to the lawless days of 1851, Southern California, where a stolen herd of horses, two murdered freight drivers, and the arrest of two teenage members of a powerful family ignites a deadly feud. I'm Jennifer James.
• 0:32
  Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley.
• 0:34
  Speaker A: We're psychics.
• 0:35
  Speaker B: We're sisters.
• 0:36
  Speaker A: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. And today's story takes us to San Bernardino County, California. I don't know why I'm laughing.
• 0:48
  Speaker B: I know exactly why you're laughing.
• 0:56
  Speaker A: You're adorable.
• 0:57
  Speaker B: Okay, for those of you who aren't watching on YouTube, I look like I'm six years old on vacation and sweaty as. That is why Jennifer's laughing at me.
• 1:10
  Speaker A: What have you been doing, Jill?
• 1:12
  Speaker B: I'm moving. I'm. I'm packing up and I'm moving my. From my she house back to the lake house.
• 1:18
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you've been working for several hours before you hopped on this coffee call, so thank you.
• 1:23
  Speaker B: No, it looks like.
• 1:25
  Speaker A: Well, I was being generous. I was being generous with you, but
• 1:28
  Speaker B: tell the people what I've really been doing for several. For, like, literally 78 hours. Tell the people what you've done to me.
• 1:37
  Speaker A: You've been binging Poldark on Netflix. And I respect that because I was there, like, two months ago. That was.
• 1:46
  Speaker B: Can you. Can you tell the people? I know this is off topic, but real.
• 1:50
  Speaker A: It is so off topic.
• 1:51
  Speaker B: So. But you have to tell the people. Or do. Do you want it for Detours?
• 1:55
  Speaker A: I think we should save it for Detours. We can't go that far off. We're not here to talk about Poldark.
• 2:02
  Speaker B: You guys. You guys. Meet us on Detour. No, seriously, meet us on Detours. Watch Poldark on Netflix. P O L D A R K on Netflix. Meet us on Detours because we got some juice to talk about. Okay.
• 2:17
  Speaker A: Okay. So Jill looks sweaty and like a kid because you've been sitting in front of the tv, but also packing. Also packing. All right.
• 2:26
  Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not sweating from sitting in front of the tv. Okay. I mean. Okay, Detours. Detours, Detours. Detours. Detours. But no, this is packing, Jill.
• 2:36
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. Hi, Jill. Thank you for joining us. So where were we, Jill? Where were we when we started this adventure?
• 2:46
  Speaker B: This was the same day that we started at the Best Buy parking lot and drove all around San Bernardino Valley.
• 2:54
  Speaker A: You got it. You got it. And we were in Victorville and we were in Hesperia and we were getting hits for episode one. Hundred fifty five, you might recall.
• 3:02
  Speaker B: True that.
• 3:02
  Speaker A: That is true. But we were also driving around the San Bernardino National Forest. Do you remember?
• 3:09
  Speaker B: I do look like a forest that I'm used to.
• 3:12
  Speaker A: No, no, it doesn't. But we were driving around and there was a sign, and I was like, well, apparently we've been driving through the forest. Who knew?
• 3:19
  Speaker B: Who knew? This doesn't look like a forest in the Midwest.
• 3:23
  Speaker A: No, it looks like a desert.
• 3:24
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: And actually it's the Mojave Desert. It's like we were on the outskirts and in the Mojave Desert. Did you know that?
• 3:30
  Speaker B: Really cool. I did not know that until, like, this moment. So thank you for that. That's really cool.
• 3:35
  Speaker A: Well, here's a nice little visual of where we were.
• 3:38
  Speaker B: I love this.
• 3:40
  Speaker A: Do you love it?
• 3:41
  Speaker B: I love the teacher and the teacher. The teacher and you was really coming out.
• 3:45
  Speaker A: I love it. Thanks. Thanks. So that's the Mojave National Preserve up there. But the. The desert is actually pretty big and stretches through much of San Bernardino County. So back to us. That's where we were. And of course, we set our intention before we headed out.
• 4:04
  Speaker B: And what is our intention? As it always is?
• 4:07
  Speaker A: It is asking the spirits to lead us to a verifiable story previously unknown to us, that allows us to give voice to the voiceless Jill.
• 4:17
  Speaker B: That's right. And it was that intention that day, as it always is, is what we were doing. Setting the intention in the car on our way out. Now you got it.
• 4:25
  Speaker A: You got it.
• 4:26
  Speaker B: Then we were getting hits in the car.
• 4:27
  Speaker A: We were getting hits in the car. What were you getting?
• 4:30
  Speaker B: What were you getting?
• 4:31
  Speaker A: First, I got a name like Lucy, and I actually wrote Lucy down. I wrote down Lucy, Lucille and Lu name.
• 4:42
  Speaker B: Okay. I was picking up on a lot of people be dying in the desert.
• 4:47
  Speaker A: That's an actual quote. A lot of people died in the desert. That was in my notes with quotes around it. Jill said.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: Oh, wow, you took an actual Jill quote.
• 4:55
  Speaker A: I did. That is a joke. What else? What else?
• 4:59
  Speaker B: Mormons.
• 5:00
  Speaker A: Again, get away from the Mormons. So when you were talking about the Mormon vibes, you also said, like a rural desert town specifically.
• 5:11
  Speaker B: That's what I said.
• 5:13
  Speaker A: Yes. And also people traveling through the mountains.
• 5:16
  Speaker B: Yes. As you just mentioned, we were talking about we are being reminded of the Apache Trail when we drove down in Phoenix, Arizona. Now, again, detours. We have a lot of detours on this one, because that is a funny story.
• 5:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. Nobody died, but it was close. Let's just say. Yeah, yeah, no one died.
• 5:38
  Speaker B: That Day. But there are crosses along the mountains of the Apache Trail. Going through.
• 5:44
  Speaker A: Oh, that's fun. So we'll tell. I mean, it's not fun that people died.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: I was like, oh, my God, Jennifer, you've changed.
• 5:52
  Speaker A: No, but I'm saying it's fun that we're going to tell our star adventure on the Apache Trail. So I'm excited to get to talk to you about that on Detours on Patreon. But for people who don't know what it is, you said it's near Phoenix. It's literally an old trail that the Apaches used, right, to get through the mountains?
• 6:12
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 6:12
  Speaker A: Through actually the Tonto National Forest now.
• 6:15
  Speaker B: And I'll tell you, them Apaches, they were unsafe because this is not a safe route.
• 6:20
  Speaker A: Well, they weren't in an SUV either.
• 6:22
  Speaker B: That's true. That's true.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: Okay. Not that it would be safe.
• 6:24
  Speaker B: Neither were we. We were in my Malibu.
• 6:27
  Speaker A: Okay, whatever. But you also had a timeline that came to you, or at least a. I did. Okay, tell me about that.
• 6:35
  Speaker B: 1830s seem to be significant to our story in San Bernardino county, is what I said. And you wrote down in the notes.
• 6:41
  Speaker A: Jill, I can't stand how psychic you are sometimes.
• 6:44
  Speaker B: Stop it. Really? Really?
• 6:46
  Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. So I took the lead.
• 6:49
  Speaker B: I like when you take the lead.
• 6:52
  Speaker A: And so I was looking for something that happened with a tie to the 1830s. An L. U. Name, the Mormons, a trail through the mountains, many people dying in the desert, and lo and behold, I hit the jackpot.
• 7:08
  Speaker B: I don't even know how you found the story.
• 7:10
  Speaker A: I don't either. But I found the Irving gang massacre of 1851. I know, I know. You look confused.
• 7:21
  Speaker B: I'm very confused.
• 7:22
  Speaker A: Why? Why?
• 7:23
  Speaker B: Because you're like. You're so stupid. Psychic. 1830. And then you're like. And the massacre happened in 1851.
• 7:29
  Speaker A: Okay. We have to back up to understand why it happened. And it does have ties to the 1830s.
• 7:36
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 7:37
  Speaker A: The roots come from the 1830s.
• 7:40
  Speaker B: So the prelude.
• 7:42
  Speaker A: The prelude. Okay, so in San Bernardino, California, there was a period of time where it transitioned from the mission system to the Rancho system. You might remember the mission system that we talked about for episode 154 about Juana Maria, the lone woman of St. Nicholas Island. You remember that?
• 8:06
  Speaker B: I love that episode.
• 8:07
  Speaker A: Right? Oh, you do?
• 8:08
  Speaker B: I didn't know. I do. I really do.
• 8:10
  Speaker A: And you might remember that Spain was working really hard in California to colonize.
• 8:18
  Speaker B: True that.
• 8:18
  Speaker A: And they were setting up Spanish missions.
• 8:21
  Speaker B: They were. They were in, like, a big Way. Oh, exactly.
• 8:25
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 8:26
  Speaker B: I love this visual. You guys find us on YouTube because Jennifer outdid herself. Spain looks super hot right now.
• 8:36
  Speaker A: Spain is all gung ho. It's like, we are going to colonize California. Right? So that's what's happening. And they go all out and they establish these missions all along the coast. You might remember this visual from 154 that shows all these Spanish missions up and down the coast of California. And of course, we know that these missions were not just converting the native peoples to Christianity, but they were there. They are converting the native peoples to Christianity, but they were also setting up religious, cultural, and economic systems that were established. Yeah. And this mission period lasted from 1769 until 1833. 1833.
• 9:30
  Speaker B: And then that's my psychic shit coming out.
• 9:33
  Speaker A: In 1833, everything started to change.
• 9:36
  Speaker B: Now tell me what changed?
• 9:38
  Speaker A: Well, I have to tell you that in 1821. In 1821, Mexico won its independence from Spain. Mexico's like, we don't need to belong to you. Boom, boom, boom. That's literally how it happened.
• 9:54
  Speaker B: That's how it happened.
• 9:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, Just like that. And you've seen Rocky, right? It's kind of like.
• 9:59
  Speaker B: It looks like.
• 9:59
  Speaker A: Literally. Yeah, yeah. You like, literally.
• 10:03
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 10:04
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 10:05
  Speaker B: Love. Like, Spain went from flexing to very sad. Inside. Mexico is looking pretty hot.
• 10:14
  Speaker A: So anyway, so that happened in 1821. But you know when there's a big change, like, they didn't start, like. Like, changing everything right away. Like, Mexico needed some time to, like, get up in there and be like, all right, what are we gonna do now? So. So then it was 1833 that Mexico's like, okay, okay. You know, all those missions, they're no more. We are disbanding all the missions. If you're a missionary, you can move out. You're going home. And now this land belongs to Mexico, so. Exactly. All that land that belonged to the church, to the monastery, that whole coast, the monks, right. Now it belongs to Mexico. Now, this reminded me of a similar situation that happened, Oh, a couple years before. You remember this gentleman that Jennifer is
• 11:09
  Speaker B: putting up a image of Henry VIII flexing like a mofo.
• 11:13
  Speaker A: Yes. Do you like his calves? He was very, very proud of his.
• 11:17
  Speaker B: You know what? Literally, the first thing you looked at,
• 11:20
  Speaker A: that's the first thing you looked at, isn't it?
• 11:21
  Speaker B: Always. Whenever I think Henry viii, I think cavs.
• 11:25
  Speaker A: You know, this picture I find disturbing because he's got. He's wearing essentially a dress. I know it wasn't a dress. But. But it's a. It's a dress. It's a tunic. Belted. And yet it's a belted tunic.
• 11:37
  Speaker B: It really is.
• 11:38
  Speaker A: It's a belted tunic. But his piece is sticking out the front.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: Okay, so my. My eyes did not register that. I'm okay now. I can't stop looking right.
• 11:54
  Speaker A: Look, like, that's ridiculous. That's not how it was. I think that is an artist's interpretation of his strength and virility and manhood.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: Well, the man knew how to, like, dress. No, I was gonna say, like, advertise to market himself. He's like, look at me, ladies. My calves. My.
• 12:15
  Speaker A: My cockpiece. Is that what it's called?
• 12:18
  Speaker B: I don't. I call it, I don't know, a penis cover.
• 12:23
  Speaker A: All right, well, let's move on. Let's move on.
• 12:25
  Speaker B: Jock strap.
• 12:28
  Speaker A: No, I don't. I mean, I'm no expert, but I think it's called a cockpiece.
• 12:32
  Speaker B: You just like saying it. You know how many times you said it, like, the past, like, minute. You're like, cockpiece, piece, cockpiece. Brian, can we do, like. Like an 80s, like, montage? Jennifer said cockpiece over and over. Can we do that just for fun?
• 12:50
  Speaker A: No, I'm answering for Brian. No. So, no, but seriously, I. This reminded me of what happened when King Henry VIII was like, catholic Church, you're out of here. I'm now the new head of the new Church of England, and therefore, all the monasteries that were in England now belong to me. Right. So it's kind of like. It's not a perfect analogy. And by the way, you see all those little dots? That's all the monastery land that went to the crown. Wow, that's. That's a lot.
• 13:26
  Speaker B: Serious.
• 13:27
  Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, so it's kind of a similar situation in that. In Mexico. And now we have all of this land, right, that is now suddenly belongs to the Mexican government, and they can do whatever they want. And so people. People with money and means are scrambling because they want the land.
• 13:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, they do.
• 13:48
  Speaker A: Mexico is in a position to take bribes or to sell it off, you know, to whomever they want to.
• 13:54
  Speaker B: Missions are cool. Like old missions. Like, seriously, like, I mean. I mean, the mission system is. Was awful. Trust. I get that. But, like, the structures, the old structures of missions, it really is a cool piece of history, I would say. So I would buy that mission.
• 14:12
  Speaker A: So it's in the 18th, it's in 1833 when the rancho period starts, because you take.
• 14:20
  Speaker B: Sounds delicious. Doesn't that sound like a delicious Mexican Dish.
• 14:24
  Speaker A: Rancho. It sounds like a. Like a. Yeah, a sandwich, a wrap. Rancho. Something Taco Bell would sell, like, for a dollar on the menu.
• 14:35
  Speaker B: That just made my stomach hurt. You said I was thinking of, like, an upscale, like, Mexican restaurant.
• 14:40
  Speaker A: Okay. I don't know if that exists, but way to dream. Way to dream. Okay. So large tracks of this valuable land now that Mexico has acquired because they disbanded the missions is available for prominent families in Southern California, start vying for it, and they start applying for these land grants through the Mexican government. And many of these families are shut down. And they're like, no. Sorry. But one such family by the name of Lugo is awarded a very large rancho San Bernardino. And this man's name was Antonio Maria Lugo.
• 15:27
  Speaker B: Beautiful.
• 15:28
  Speaker A: And it's because of this that the Lugo family would become one of the most prominent families in Southern California during the Mexican rule.
• 15:40
  Speaker B: I have never heard of them. Can you tell. Oh. Can you tell me a little bit about the Lugo family? I love. Oh, the man can wear a hat. He looks like a gangster. Like, literally, like, he looks like he is a gangster. He's out there. He's out there just living his life. I don't know what direction we're going with the style. Is he a little street? Is he a little church? We don't know. We don't know.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, but he's kind of a mashup. A mashup of, like, church, pilgrim, and. Yeah, and street. Right?
• 16:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, Right. A little bit of hip hop in there, too. Yes, definitely. A little bit of Kanye vibes going.
• 16:21
  Speaker A: Well, this is him as an old man. This is a. A picture. It's not a photograph. It is a picture of an ant. Antonio Maria Lugo, he lived 18. I'm sorry. He lived 1788-1860, and he was awarded
• 16:39
  Speaker B: this land in the drawing that Jennifer's presenting on YouTube right now. It looks like he has something in his mouth. Like, maybe he's chewing dip or it's snuff.
• 16:49
  Speaker A: Is what is dip? Is dip the same as snuff?
• 16:53
  Speaker B: Because snuff is like. Snuff is. I don't know. It's like snuff is like a dirty film. Like a bad dirty film or something.
• 17:01
  Speaker A: Okay. The funny thing is you've been watching Poldark on tv. I've been reading the books, and they call it snuff in, like, a 1790 Cornwall. Okay, so it's tobacco.
• 17:13
  Speaker B: Yes. Chewing tobacco is doing. Yeah. Yes. Okay, okay, okay. This is off the rail.
• 17:21
  Speaker A: Excuse. Excuse my lingo from the 18th century. Anyway, moving on. So this is Antonio Maria Lugo. That is a very rough drawing of his land. That's the plan for it right next to him. Enjoy that. I thought you were talking about the man, not the land.
• 17:39
  Speaker B: And you said it was a rough drawing. I was like, yeah, it is. Yeah, it's pretty rough.
• 17:42
  Speaker A: No, the map is a rough map. Okay. And he came from a huge family. The Lugos were huge. Like, his mommy and daddy loved each other very, very much. He was the seventh son. Seventh son. They had nine kids in the family.
• 18:00
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
• 18:01
  Speaker A: Now this Antonio Mario Lugo, he was a military guy. And he was in the military for 17 years. And so after he retired in 1810, that's, I guess, one of the reasons that he received a Veterans Land grant for one of the ranchos that he lived in. But he also lived in the Pueblo of Los Angeles, which is modern day Los Angeles. Like, that's really cool. I know. So he lived there, but he also got this other rancho outside of town. He also served as one of the early mayors of the Pueblo of Los Angeles. So he had prestige, he was a military guy. He obviously had money and land. And he also loved his wife very, very much. Maria de los Dolores Dominguez Lugo. Gave him eight children, God bless her.
• 18:55
  Speaker B: These women, my gosh, I don't know
• 18:57
  Speaker A: how they did it.
• 18:59
  Speaker B: Three.
• 19:00
  Speaker A: Three daughters and five sons. So again, the Lugos, huge family. Lots of cousins and uncles and, you know, sons and daughters.
• 19:10
  Speaker B: You know, their reunions were fun.
• 19:13
  Speaker A: I'm sure. I'm sure. So then after Mexico gained its independence from Spain, as we saw, he was given even more land through grants, parts of what are now Bell, Montebello, East Los Angeles, Watts and Compton.
• 19:30
  Speaker B: He had, like the best land. Like, a lot.
• 19:32
  Speaker A: A lot of land.
• 19:34
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 19:34
  Speaker A: And he converted us all into 19,000 acre ranch called the Rancho San Antonio.
• 19:41
  Speaker B: How did I not know this?
• 19:42
  Speaker A: I don't know. And then in 1842, he got even more land from another grant, another 250 acres from what had been previously a Mission San Gabriel. So he just, like collects land over the years until he, like, owns the San Bernardino Valley, essentially. Like, wow, the. The Lugos now just not just him, but he has, like, he has got brothers, he's got sons, and the Lugo family are in charge in the San Bernardino family. Okay. In the San Bernardino Valley. Okay.
• 20:18
  Speaker B: So that's what I mean. Like, I feels like I should have, like, seen this name around Los Angeles when we were there. Like, doesn't it seem like, that. Like, that's seems like a.
• 20:27
  Speaker A: A big name. It seems like for 1851, okay, things will change. But. So they move. The. The family moves to the San Bernardino Rancho in San Bernardino county, what is now San Bernardino County. And they have a successful cattle operation, and they sell hides and they sell tallow to trading ships on the coast, but they also raise horses, sheep, and livestock. Okay. Thriving ranch, very wealthy family of prominence. But with that come problems.
• 21:01
  Speaker B: What?
• 21:03
  Speaker A: Okay, so do you remember when we were talking about the Gold rush in the car, and you and I are both completely ignorant, except we knew it happened around 1849.
• 21:11
  Speaker B: And I know that because the 49ers.
• 21:13
  Speaker A: Right, exactly. Like. And that was the extent of our knowledge. Well, as it turns out, the gold rush really didn't touch Southern California. That was, like, a Northern California thing. That was a San Francisco thing. Right. So while everybody is flooding, and by everybody, I really mean Anglos from the east who wanted to, like, make it rich, are flooding to the north. In the south. It stays a quiet ranching region. Like, nobody's paying attention down there. Okay. And because of this, there are a lot of Native American tribal groups who are frequently raiding the ranches of the Californios. The Californios are the Hispanic people who, like, were born there. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but they're. They're Spanish and. And Mexican. Right. Over the generations. And so these Native American groups are raiding and stealing horses from these wealthy ranches.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: That's a crime and a half back in the day.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: And this. This is pissing off the Lugos because, like, this is their. And you've got these tribes coming in, and they're stealing their horses. So there's a big event that happens January of 1851.
• 22:24
  Speaker B: What happens?
• 22:25
  Speaker A: The Ute tribe. Ute. Have you heard of them?
• 22:28
  Speaker B: No. There's, like, nothing that I heard of about this story. It's so fascinating.
• 22:33
  Speaker A: So the Utes is a tribe from the Great Basin area, which is basically like, Utah, Nevada, like that area.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 22:42
  Speaker A: And so the Utes come in, and they go into the San Bernardino Valley, and they steal several hundred horses. Several hundred horses. Many of them from the Lugo lands. I think I've got visual of this kind of. Okay, so it didn't look exactly.
• 23:05
  Speaker B: This is criminal. Jennifer. You don't know. You don't know if those people are the same people stealing. Yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker A: Utes. Well, I don't know if these are the particular Utes who stole the horses. And I cannot verify that those are Lugo horses, but you see my point.
• 23:21
  Speaker B: I see your point. You froze a little bit, but I see your point.
• 23:23
  Speaker A: Okay, okay. Very good. So they come in and they steal these. These horses and then they escape through this narrow pass in the mountains called the Cajun Pass. It's an old Spanish trading route that goes through the mountains into the Mojave Desert. Sound familiar?
• 23:44
  Speaker B: It does.
• 23:45
  Speaker A: The Lugos are so pissed off that they decide that they're gonna fight back.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, they are. You can't be coming and stealing our horses. Like, really. Back in the day, stealing a horse was like penalty of death, wasn't it? It's like. It's a big thing.
• 24:00
  Speaker A: It was a big thing because they were so expensive, so valuable. It's like stealing a car.
• 24:05
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 24:06
  Speaker A: Only more so because they weren't just for transportation. They were also for livelihood. So anyway, the Lugos are pissed and they put together a posse of 20 armed men to chase down these Ute. Try this. This Ute group who stole the horses. So who went with it was a posse of 20. Among them were two of Antonio's grown sons.
• 24:33
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 24:33
  Speaker A: Two of his teenage grandsons, Chico. Chico and Manito.
• 24:38
  Speaker B: That doesn't seem responsible to let Chico and Minito go.
• 24:41
  Speaker A: Chico and Benito went, and they were 16 and 18. And for this and several other ranch hands. Now, this took several days, this operation. On the first day. Oh, wait, I have. I have a photo of Chico and Menito. That is not it. Here we go. I was able to locate.
• 25:02
  Speaker B: Oh, my Lord in heaven.
• 25:03
  Speaker A: Chico and Manito. It took a lot of time.
• 25:09
  Speaker B: I am looking at Peter and Greg Brady.
• 25:12
  Speaker A: Whatever. Anyway, so Chico and Manito and. By the way, that's pretty cool that their names rhyme.
• 25:22
  Speaker B: It does.
• 25:23
  Speaker A: Chico, Aminito. Right? It rolls off.
• 25:25
  Speaker B: I think they're cute names. I think they're really cute names.
• 25:27
  Speaker A: I think it's a missed opportunity that our name just don't rhyme, don't you?
• 25:32
  Speaker B: I mean, our initials, even after we got married, are the same. That's. We don't need to rhyme. We don't need to rhyme. We already have the. The thing going.
• 25:43
  Speaker A: Tweedledee Dee and the Tweedledee dumb vibe. Okay, you're right. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so we got Chico and Manito. They're just teenagers. Ranch hands and a couple of Antonio's grown, grown sons. On the first day, they go through the pass. Okay, they go through the pass, which I also have a photo of right here. This is 1920s, what it looked like.
• 26:04
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 26:05
  Speaker A: Yeah. But you see this dot right here? It shows you on the map about where the pass is.
• 26:09
  Speaker B: Yes. Anyway, gosh, we were really close to that.
• 26:12
  Speaker A: We were really close to it. So they go through the pass and they don't see the Utes, but they do run into these two other men. These two other men are teamsters. In other words, freight drivers. Okay, so they're driving on a stagecoach or one is a Irishman named Patrick McSwiggin and the other is a creek man named Sam. Okay, so McSwiggin and Sam are both riding in the state coaches, and the Lugo party is like, hey, guys, did you see the Utes? They stole our horses. And Patrick McSwiggin and Sam are like, oh, yeah, they went that way. Okay, that's cool.
• 26:49
  Speaker B: That's a sign.
• 26:50
  Speaker A: Very cool. Of Patrick and Sam. But three days into the chase, all of a sudden there's an ambush and the Utes have somehow surrounded the Lugo party. Okay, you know where it happened? Abort.
• 27:07
  Speaker B: Abort mission. Where?
• 27:08
  Speaker A: It happened near Victorville, Jill. Where we were. Yeah, Right. Now, I am not even kidding. In the ambush, one of the Lugal men is killed. Okay. Now it doesn't look good. They retreat, they leave without the horses. They lost one man. They're all depressed and they're empty handed and butthurt.
• 27:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, they are. Okay, well, to be honest, they. They didn't have enough men. And some of the men are just barely men. Right.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So a few days later, there is a US army infantry just waltzing through the Cajun pass. Okay. As they do, I have. I have some visual of what the US army would have looked like in 1851. Quite dapper.
• 27:56
  Speaker B: Yes. I. I really appreciate them.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: I love their hats, their shoulders. Shoulder.
• 28:01
  Speaker B: Shoulder pads are everything.
• 28:02
  Speaker A: Shoulder pads. So 80s.
• 28:04
  Speaker B: So 80s.
• 28:05
  Speaker A: I think it's fresh again though, don't you think? Shoulder pads are fresh again. Kind of.
• 28:09
  Speaker B: I could not rock shoulder pads.
• 28:10
  Speaker A: No.
• 28:10
  Speaker B: I look like a football player.
• 28:12
  Speaker A: True. True, dad. Anyway, so this U.S. army detachment just happens to be walking through the pass. And the Utes notice. Okay. So the youth are still around, you know, with the whole. Stolen horses. They notice this, this. These army guys come walking through. And so the Utes, including the leader of the horse raiding army, are like, excuse me, excuse me. I couldn't help but notice that there are two dead bodies back there. And we think you should check it out.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: So let me get this straight. The Utes.
• 28:48
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:48
  Speaker B: Go up to the United States military and was like, yes, hey, excuse me. By the way, I think there are
• 28:54
  Speaker A: two dead guys back there maybe, and they're not ours, and we didn't do it, so you might want to look into that. So they do, and they find the bodies of the freight drivers, Patrick McSwiggin and Sam.
• 29:08
  Speaker B: Yes, they totally did them a favorite. They did the Lugo family a favor. They were nice people.
• 29:15
  Speaker A: Hold on. So the army guys are like, well, this is a problem. They bury Patrick McSwiggin and Sam, and then they report the murders to the local officials. Okay. So they're like, hey, you know, this isn't our jurisdiction or anything, but you should. Yeah, you. You should probably look into this because we don't know what happened, and the youth said it wasn't them, and we don't really care, but we. We buried them and now we're moving on.
• 29:38
  Speaker B: We're just on a walk. And then you're flagged down and.
• 29:43
  Speaker A: Exactly. So you might be wondering who killed Patrick McSwiggin and Sam.
• 29:50
  Speaker B: That's what I'm wondering.
• 29:52
  Speaker A: Because they were just trying to help the Lugos, right?
• 29:54
  Speaker B: They were just. They were just, like, doing their freight thing just with.
• 29:58
  Speaker A: On the stage coaches, on the stagecoach. Right, exactly. Like, they didn't deserve this. So what happened was the authorities start interviewing witnesses, people who are around for the alt, for the ambush, for the altercation. They're like, do you know anything about Patrick McSwiggin and the creek Sam? And he's like, well, no, I did not see anything. You're like, that's how it was again and again and again, until one man stepped forward. He was a man that was part of the Lugo posse.
• 30:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 30:31
  Speaker A: And his name was Isidro Higuera. Okay. He, Guerra, testified that it wasn't the Utes who killed the two teamsters, the two freight drivers, Patrick and Sam. He said that after the Utes ambushed the Lugo party, that the Lugos assumed that Patrick and Sam led them to the trap, that Patrick and Sam set him up. And because they thought that they were set up by Patrick and Sam, Hegera said that he, Chico and Manito went and killed McSwiggin and Sam in retaliation. No, that's what is there. Ycedro Higuera said. You don't think so.
• 31:26
  Speaker B: Congratulations with these. With these names. Like, honestly, I'm super impressed because I cannot read any of that that's going on. It literally. It looks like a different language to me.
• 31:35
  Speaker A: Well, clearly you didn't, so continue.
• 31:39
  Speaker B: Skimmed. Okay, go ahead and When I say no, I mean I'm in shock.
• 31:44
  Speaker A: Okay?
• 31:45
  Speaker B: Like, no. Like, why would you do that? Why would someone do that? They were really just trying to help.
• 31:49
  Speaker A: Okay, well, I know, but I don't know. According to Heyera, they weren't trying to help. The Lugos thought assumed that they had led them to a trap. Now, did anyone else back up hey. Gara's story? No, nobody else backed up Higuera's story.
• 32:07
  Speaker B: And why is he being a narc anyway? Like, this is like the biggest family in the county. Like, why are you Narcan?
• 32:13
  Speaker A: Well, they are the biggest family in. In the county. And yet, because of Higuera's testimony, guess what happened?
• 32:23
  Speaker B: They arrested him.
• 32:25
  Speaker A: Oh, no. Chico and Manito had to go behind bars. And so here we have a visual of Chico and Manitoba behind, behind Peter and Greg Brady. I can neither confirm nor deny the authenticity of these photos. But I did, I did take it very seriously trying to locate Chico and Manito online.
• 32:46
  Speaker B: Anyway, you gave up and got the Bradies. How did you get the Brady's?
• 32:51
  Speaker A: So, okay, Chico and Manito are in jail. So this prominent Lugo family, what do they do? They hire the best lawyer they can possibly get. And they get this guy, Joseph, he has no arms. Joseph Lancaster. Brent, he did have arms. He did have arms. Not in this photograph. He is the defense attorney for the Lugos. Now Brent, he is a real go getter and he's a pretty smart guy. And he digs away at Higuera's Hegera's testimony, right? And he's like, okay, so that we've got two problems here, folks. He's like. The first problem is Higuera is not exactly a trustworthy, upstanding individual, okay? He is not a model. A model witness at the time that he accused Chico and Manito for this crime, he was, he was in jail himself.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 33:53
  Speaker A: He was in jail himself on course theft charges. Huh? What do you think? Why, why do you think that this is notable that he was in jail at the time?
• 34:04
  Speaker B: Because it's like, this is classic let's make a deal. Like, oh, I have some information. Like, were you even like, are you like serious right now? Like, it's totally a setup that you're trying to get information so you can get a lesser sentence so you can get out. And you're just throwing these kids under the bus.
• 34:20
  Speaker A: That's what Brent was arguing. But there was another thing, and this gets a little twisty, but it's juicy. So we're just going to go for it.
• 34:26
  Speaker B: I like the juice.
• 34:28
  Speaker A: The other thing was, well, what kind of jailer would do that? Like, what kind of jailer would be like, oh, do you have testimony against the Lugos? Like, because the Lugos are this big prominent family. Like, who would it. Who would it profit? You know what I mean? Well, the jailer happened to be this guy named George Robinson, and George Robinson, the jailer. Okay, okay. He had a grudge against the Lugo family because the year before, he was traveling with his wife through the Cajun Pass and he needed a place to stay. And so the Lugos are like, oh, come and stay on our rancho. He stayed on a rancho, but while he was there, he beat the f out of his wife. He beat his wife while he was staying at the rancho, and the Lugos beat the f out of him. And they're like, yeah, they're like, you don't beat your wife.
• 35:22
  Speaker B: And he.
• 35:23
  Speaker A: They. They beat him up. And as a matter of fact, while this is all happening with Chico and Minito, Robinson was still trying to get money from them in a civil lawsuit against the. The attack against him. Right. And so he's tied up in court. He hates the Lugos because the Lugos basically kicked his ass when he assaulted his wife on their land.
• 35:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, they did, and they'll do it again.
• 35:45
  Speaker A: So basically, Joseph Lancaster Brent, attorney for the Lugos, is arguing. Okay. That George Robinson sought revenge against the Lugo family by inducing Hegera to commit perjury and lie on the stand.
• 36:00
  Speaker B: Okay, Mike, drop Brent.
• 36:02
  Speaker A: Exactly. So like I said, he's a pretty good lawyer. So Brent seeks bail. He's like, all right, so this is BS Judge. You need to. You need to let Chico and Minito go. And everyone was going to be. Everyone was waiting to see if Chico and Manito were going to be let out of jail on bail.
• 36:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:24
  Speaker A: Okay. Meanwhile, the community. This is all over the place. This is a big family, right? This is like the family. This is the Rockefellers, right? This. This is the local family. Big news. And unfortunately, the community is divided along racial lines always. Because you have the Californios, the Spaniards, right, who are living. The Spaniards, slash Mexicans who are living there who are like, chico and Menito are innocent. Free Chico and Menito. And then you have the Anglos who are pissed off that an Irishman was killed because Patrick McSwiggin was an Irishman. And so the new Anglos in the area are like, the brothers are guilty, and the Anglos, they don't give an F. They want to like they have this mob mentality that they just want to steal him from the prison and hang them themselves.
• 37:17
  Speaker B: Oh, God.
• 37:18
  Speaker A: So you had this sort of, this sort of situation brewing. Enter in all this mess.
• 37:28
  Speaker B: I can't even take this.
• 37:29
  Speaker A: We have another, another character enter this mess and his name is John Irving and he has a gang and he shows up just to make matters worse.
• 37:43
  Speaker B: Okay, who is John Irving? Why did he have nothing to do in his life other than enter into this saga?
• 37:49
  Speaker A: So John Irving was a former Texas Ranger, which really doesn't mean anything because he's basically an outlaw now because he's no longer a Texas Ranger. Now he has a gang of 25 men. And they are not respectable lawmen. They are known as armed adventurers, outlaws and mercenaries. And he and his gang are on their way, passing through to steal silver in Mexico. That's, that's what they're there for. They're on the road. They're going to be stealing silver. But he sees all this media attention surrounding the Lugos and he knows that the Lugos are the Rockefellers of this time and place. So he goes up to the Lugos and he's like, look, man, I had this gang. Your, your, your sons, your grandsons, Chico and Manito, they deserve to be free. Let me and my gang do it. We'll break them out. We'll bring them back to you for $50,000. Now $15,000 in 1851 is over 2 million.
• 38:46
  Speaker B: Damn, that's a lot.
• 38:49
  Speaker A: Later, Brent, the defense attorney, would write a book and say, yeah, no, it was really more like 10,000. Okay?
• 38:55
  Speaker B: Either way, that's.
• 38:56
  Speaker A: Either way, that's over $400,000. That's a lot of money.
• 38:59
  Speaker B: That's a lot.
• 39:00
  Speaker A: Now here's what we don't know. History has not recorded whether or not the Lugo family considered the offer. Okay. We don't know what the Lugo said. There doesn't seem to be anything in writing. We don't know. All we know is that John Irving made this proposition. Yes. And we, we don't know how the Lugos responded. However, during the course of these negotiations, I guess you could call it, or this offer that John Irving makes, the Lugos. Brent's motion for the boys to be released on bail was granted by the judge.
• 39:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker A: And now Chico and Minito are, are, are set to be freed. Yes, but, but, but John Irving hears this, the gang member, and he's like, no, no, no, you, Lugo still owe me because they're gonna be free. He didn't do anything. He's. He's saying because he's an outlaw, he's
• 39:58
  Speaker B: like, no, no, opportunist, obviously.
• 40:02
  Speaker A: I told you they'd be free. Now they're going to be free. And if you don't pay us, we're going to kill them. We're going to kill them when they get out of jail if you don't pay us. So now we have a different situation happening with the Irving gang. Geez.
• 40:13
  Speaker B: Oh, Pete, I can't with the story.
• 40:15
  Speaker A: So it's the day of the court, the courtroom where they are going to hear the judge is going to say, you know, Chico and Manito, you are going to be freed. And Brent is beside himself. He's scared to death not only of the angry Anglos who want to capture and hang him like an angry mob, but he's also worried about John Irving and the threat he has made. Okay, so Brent sets out a call and. And 60 armed Californios on the side of the Lugos come as well. So you have the one side that wants to murder these boys and you have the other side that wants to protect them and take them back to the ranch.
• 41:03
  Speaker B: Oh, my God, my stomach hurts.
• 41:05
  Speaker A: Scene is set for a battle at the courthouse.
• 41:08
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. I cannot.
• 41:10
  Speaker A: But once again, once again. Oh. And I just have to say it's completely ridiculous. Everyone's armed, by the way. Brent is armed, the prosecuting attorney is armed. Every John Irving's gang is armed. Everybody has guns.
• 41:26
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 41:26
  Speaker A: In the courtroom. Okay.
• 41:28
  Speaker B: It's like a pressure cooker.
• 41:30
  Speaker A: Then fate steps in.
• 41:33
  Speaker B: Now fate's around.
• 41:34
  Speaker A: Ah, fate steps in, in a good way. Because as it turns out, remember how the US army was just happened to be walking through this time? Yeah. This time the US Cavalry, the US Cavalry on horseback just happens to be meandering through the area. And the sheriff's like, hey, cavalry, we could really use you over here at the courthouse.
• 41:57
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 41:57
  Speaker A: And so 50 US cavalry soldiers surround the courthouse. And four of them take their place inside. Inside the building with the soldiers there, cooler heads prevailed. And the judge. The judge made a statement that Chico and Minito had posted bail. They were walked out alive and were safely escorted home. And so here we have celebration slide. Hooray. Chico and Manito are free again.
• 42:32
  Speaker B: And they're safe.
• 42:33
  Speaker A: And they are safe and they're on their way home.
• 42:37
  Speaker B: Now.
• 42:37
  Speaker A: Things cool down for a few months, but John Irving, he vowed to get back at the Lugos for never paying him the money for the release of Chico and Menita, John Irving.
• 42:50
  Speaker B: Go away. Are you serious?
• 42:51
  Speaker A: Seriously, just go to Mexico and steal away.
• 42:54
  Speaker B: Oh, my God, you are worthless. Get out of here.
• 42:58
  Speaker A: So on May 27th, several months later, 1851, John Irving and his gang of 12 members. Now, remember, he had close to like 4, 25.
• 43:10
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:11
  Speaker A: Half of them were like, this is crazy. We are not with you anymore. Oh, so half of them. Half of them were like, yeah, no, we're not into this. Here was his plan. They were going to get ego even with the Lugo family. They're going to go on their land, they're going to loot, they're going to steal.
• 43:27
  Speaker B: No.
• 43:28
  Speaker A: And they're going to kidnap Chico and Manitoba for a ransom.
• 43:32
  Speaker B: No.
• 43:33
  Speaker A: So that's exactly like for real. So they ride. John Irving and his Gang of 12 ride onto the rancho San Bernardino. They raid the rancho, they steal horses, they loot the property. And the thing is, is that before their whole plan is complete, they realize, wait a minute, there are people closing in on us. Because the Lugos were warned ahead of time.
• 44:03
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 44:03
  Speaker A: And they knew this was going to happen.
• 44:05
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 44:06
  Speaker A: So when Irving and his gang realized that they were being surrounded rather than stand and fight, which would have been the more heroic thing to do. Not that they're heroes, but you see my point? They fled towards the mountains. And that's where they were met by a force of men who were supporting the Lugo family that had been ordered and probably paid to pursue the outlaws. And what followed was a running battle across the valley that lasted all day. And Irving was outmaneuvering them until he made a fatal mistake.
• 44:44
  Speaker B: What'd he do?
• 44:44
  Speaker A: He rode his gang into a narrow ravine, boxed them in.
• 44:50
  Speaker B: You don't ride into narrow ravines. Irving.
• 44:52
  Speaker A: Irving, he boxed his posse into the San Timoteo Canyon. We have a visual here.
• 45:00
  Speaker B: It's beautiful.
• 45:01
  Speaker A: San Timoteo Canyon. And there was no escape route for him and his gang. They were surrounded. 11 of Irving's 12 men, including Irving himself, were killed. There was one man who escaped. And he only escaped because he laid under the brush until night fell and then he was able to skulk away.
• 45:25
  Speaker B: Can you believe that one guy. Oof.
• 45:28
  Speaker A: I know. That would have been terrifying. And nobody was ever charged for the Irving gang killings in that cavern.
• 45:37
  Speaker B: So what happened to Chico and Manito?
• 45:39
  Speaker A: Chico and Manito still faced a legal battle in the courts. It lasted for more than a year as lawyers argued both sides over motions and technicalities. But then, In October of 1830, 1952, the court finally put the matter to rest and dismissed the case for lack of evidence.
• 45:59
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 45:59
  Speaker A: And the Lugo brothers were free to walk. Free.
• 46:04
  Speaker B: Yay.
• 46:06
  Speaker A: But that means that the murders of Patrick McSwiggin and Sam the Creek man were never solved.
• 46:14
  Speaker B: So who's our voiceless?
• 46:15
  Speaker A: Well, I wanted to ask you, I mean, you seem to be rooting for Chico and Menito here.
• 46:20
  Speaker B: I think they're innocent.
• 46:22
  Speaker A: You don't think they had anything to do?
• 46:23
  Speaker B: I don't think they had anything to do, no. But I do think it was part of the Lugal posse that did really believe that, that they were part of the attack or planning of the attack or set them up to be ambushed. I do, do think that. What do you think?
• 46:42
  Speaker A: Do you? I, I, I do think they were wrongly. It's just too convenient that the two teenagers, do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think, I don't think they did it either, now that you say that. And they spent all that time in jail and people want. They were in real danger. Even when they weren't in jail, they were in real danger. Do you think Patrick McSwiggin and Sam deserve a voice?
• 47:05
  Speaker B: I do.
• 47:06
  Speaker A: I don't think that they, I don't think that they double crossed. I don't think that at all. No, I really think that they were just trying to help the Lugos.
• 47:13
  Speaker B: I agree with you 150%. And the thing is is that I think the psychic impression I have of these two men is that during the time to be a teamster, to be a stagecoach like transporter, it's a dangerous job. You know, I think they signed up for danger. I feel like they were ambushed themselves. And it, you know, it could have even been the natives that the Utes that did it.
• 47:44
  Speaker A: Well, and that's why I was wondering like when the Utes went to the US army to be like, hey, we didn't do it, of course. Do you know what I mean?
• 47:55
  Speaker B: Why would we do it if we're telling you about it?
• 47:57
  Speaker A: That would make them look innocent, wouldn't it? Yeah. So what do you think about the Irving gang? Because the Irving gang also didn't have any. Like there was no justice for their murders.
• 48:11
  Speaker B: I think that John Irving is just so happy right now to even be a part of this story. I think that he got what he deserved. And yeah, I think he made a really stupid decision and I think he's going dope.
• 48:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 48:24
  Speaker B: What do you think?
• 48:25
  Speaker A: I, I agree. No, I, I think the big standouts Here for me are, of course, Chico, Amenito and Patrick and Sam.
• 48:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. Poor Patrick and Sam.
• 48:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. So if we look back at our hits for a second, please. When you said the 1830s, I think that that that era, that 10 years in 1833 was so significant because that was the rise of the Lugo family.
• 48:51
  Speaker B: And you. The Lu. Name, dude, seriously.
• 48:56
  Speaker A: Right?
• 48:56
  Speaker B: That's. Names are hard. That's great.
• 48:59
  Speaker A: Even the fact that I wrote Lucy. Lucy.
• 49:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 49:02
  Speaker A: With the C, Y, and Lugo L, U, G, O. It's like, I was so close.
• 49:09
  Speaker B: You're so close.
• 49:10
  Speaker A: Like, the Y is. Is like a long letter that hangs underneath, and the G is a lot. It's like. It. Yeah. I was very impressed with myself.
• 49:18
  Speaker B: I'm very impressed with you.
• 49:20
  Speaker A: Thank you. When you said a lot of people died in the desert, I wasn't lying. Yeah, a lot of people did die in the desert. Patrick, Sam, Irving, Irving's gang. Like, literally.
• 49:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of people died in the desert, even.
• 49:34
  Speaker A: And I didn't write this down, but even the fact that Victorville, once again, like, Sam and Patrick were killed near Victorville.
• 49:41
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 49:44
  Speaker A: And then the Apache Trail.
• 49:47
  Speaker B: Yes. Which is so closely related or such a good metaphor for the. For the trail.
• 49:54
  Speaker A: Cajun Pass. Yeah, the Cajun Pass. Yeah. Because it was an old path that went through the mountains right by a park or reserve.
• 50:03
  Speaker B: Help me.
• 50:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 50:04
  Speaker B: With the Mormon vibes. In a rural desert town.
• 50:08
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. Okay, so this is crazy. Okay. This is so crazy. In 1851, about 500 Mormons moved into the San Bernardino area because Brigham Young was trying to create a new community in the rural desert down there. Oh. Huh. So they were up in Salt Lake, but Brigham wasn't convinced that that was the best community. And so he was, like, in negotiations, trying to set up a new community in the San Bernardino Valley.
• 50:49
  Speaker B: Wow. Okay.
• 50:51
  Speaker A: So that in and of itself is mind blowing. I will say that also coincidentally, In September of 1851, the same year after all of this, like, massacre happened and that craziness, the Lugo family actually sold the Rancho San Bernardino to the Mormons.
• 51:11
  Speaker B: Shut up.
• 51:12
  Speaker A: They sold it. The Lugo family sold their ranch to the Morgan Mormons, and the Mormons actually started a rural desert community.
• 51:19
  Speaker B: Not the Morgans. Not the Morgans. Not the Morgans.
• 51:23
  Speaker A: No, the Mormons. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Now that is widely known. If you look up.
• 51:29
  Speaker B: I did not know that.
• 51:30
  Speaker A: Mormons online.
• 51:31
  Speaker B: My dumb ass didn't know.
• 51:33
  Speaker A: And even in the context of the Irving massacre and the Lugo trial, this comes up like, yeah, the more the Mormons were around.
• 51:40
  Speaker B: Shut up.
• 51:40
  Speaker A: But, but, but you know what isn't widely known. And I had to read Brent's book to figure this out. Remember Brent?
• 51:48
  Speaker B: You read Brent the lawyer Brent's book?
• 51:50
  Speaker A: Yes, he wrote a book. Here he is once again. No arms. He really did have arms. But in this photo, he doesn't.
• 51:55
  Speaker B: Not pictured arms. Not pictured exactly.
• 51:58
  Speaker A: He wrote a book. And he explained that the Mormons were responsible for the frequent horse theft.
• 52:09
  Speaker B: I never liked them.
• 52:11
  Speaker A: I never liked them. I know. The instigating incident that caused everything. The Utes, the youths were working with the Mormons. Mormons were like, you bring us these hot horses, meaning stolen, we'll give you firearms. And that was the deal. And that's why the Utes were raiding the ranchos, bringing the horses to the Mormons, because the Mormons needed horses for their new settlement. And Jill, I know.
• 52:36
  Speaker B: Stop your face right now.
• 52:38
  Speaker A: I cannot stop my face. I cannot stop my face. Jill, this is not on the Internet. I did not see one article talking about the Irving Massacre, talking about the Lugo trial that said. Oh, by the way, this whole thing started because the Mormons were trading with the Utes to get stolen horses.
• 53:02
  Speaker B: I swear to God.
• 53:03
  Speaker A: I know. I knew you didn't like the Morgans.
• 53:05
  Speaker B: I swear to God. I swear to God. Those Mormons, those Morgans.
• 53:11
  Speaker A: Damn Morgans.
• 53:13
  Speaker B: The Morgan stuff. Like lovely people. It's the Mormons I'm mad at. That's crazy.
• 53:18
  Speaker A: No, I know.
• 53:19
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 53:20
  Speaker A: I know.
• 53:21
  Speaker B: Shut up.
• 53:21
  Speaker A: I know. So did you like the story?
• 53:24
  Speaker B: Mormons, man.
• 53:26
  Speaker A: Good story. Right, right. It's such a saga.
• 53:30
  Speaker B: Why don't they have.
• 53:31
  Speaker A: They need to make like a Yellowstone sort of situation. Like soap opera. This is a soap opera right here.
• 53:36
  Speaker B: This is literally like a miniseries. For sure.
• 53:40
  Speaker A: You need to write this screenplay. Can we write this screenplay?
• 53:43
  Speaker B: I don't have time for that right now.
• 53:46
  Speaker A: Somebody out there. This is a gold mine. Write the screenplay. It writes itself.
• 53:51
  Speaker B: It is really interesting that I really would believe that the Lugo family would have more of a presence in modern day Los Angeles. Like, I never heard of them. There's nothing to them.
• 54:03
  Speaker A: Because they sold their land in 1851 and moved out. That's why. And actually, some of the Lugos would end up with nothing. They would be impoverished. Yeah, yeah, I like the Lugos. I know. I do, too. So they weren't. They didn't have a long reign. They had a very short reign of being like the Most prominent family in the area.
• 54:25
  Speaker B: I like them. I'm just really concerned with Antonio's fashion choices. It doesn't. It's like giving me too much, and I feel like. Edit, Edit, Edit. You know, Edit, I. I know.
• 54:34
  Speaker A: I feel like we need another visual here. Where are you? And. Oh, here we are. There you are. And here he is.
• 54:42
  Speaker B: Do you see what I'm saying? Like, it's giving me too much. Like, I feel like.
• 54:47
  Speaker A: Like your eye doesn't know where to go.
• 54:49
  Speaker B: Yes. Where. Where are you wearing this outfit to? Tell me. Are we going to church?
• 54:55
  Speaker A: You have the top hat with the buckle. You have the tie. You have. What is that called? That rag, that bandana.
• 55:01
  Speaker B: The bandana, yes. Like, where. Where are we going?
• 55:04
  Speaker A: It's a lot. It's a lot. I know. I know.
• 55:05
  Speaker B: Where. I mean, tell me about yourself. Like, it's. It's like you're giving me traveler, but, like, through different centuries. But then, like, where are you going?
• 55:14
  Speaker A: Right?
• 55:14
  Speaker B: It's a lot.
• 55:15
  Speaker A: It's so much so.
• 55:16
  Speaker B: And your prominent chin.
• 55:18
  Speaker A: Oh, boy.
• 55:19
  Speaker B: You better be dipping. Tell you what, he's actually a cute old man. He really is a cute old man.
• 55:28
  Speaker A: All right, well, on that note, do you have any community announcements?
• 55:33
  Speaker B: So we are still offering mentorship readings one on one with my wonderful sister, Jennifer James. Please email us@commonmystics.com that's not it.
• 55:43
  Speaker A: No, don't do.
• 55:46
  Speaker B: Don't go. There it is. Please email us atcommonmystics gmail.com Also, hook yourself up with a reading or a loved one. It's getting into spooky season. This is my busy season. Let's do this, people. Get me on your calendar and I will read. We'll do mediumship. We'll talk ghosties, we'll do the tarot. Whatever your needs are, I am here to hook you up. So please email us@commonmysticsmail.com Also, we are going to be selling shirts and crystals.
• 56:17
  Speaker A: Oh, we are?
• 56:19
  Speaker B: Yes. And we have to do that, like, this week. So I have to figure out or
• 56:24
  Speaker A: we lose our trademark for it. Yes, okay.
• 56:27
  Speaker B: Exactly. And we already paid for it, so
• 56:29
  Speaker A: we gotta do it.
• 56:30
  Speaker B: So I'm gonna put that. I'm gonna create a shirt with camel.
• 56:34
  Speaker A: We don't wait till last minute.
• 56:35
  Speaker B: Not at all. I mean, I should have done the shit last week, to be honest, but whatevs. Anyway, so I'm gonna be putting that online. Get your Common mystic shirt and swag@commonmystics.net
• 56:48
  Speaker A: all right, thank you, Jill. Love you.
• 56:50
  Speaker B: Love you. Love you guys so much. Thank you for hanging in there and listening all the time. We really appreciate you. We see the numbers. We see you. Thank you.
• 56:56
  Speaker A: Yes. And thank you for. For the reviews. Why? Why did you do that?
• 57:01
  Speaker B: We got two more reviews.
• 57:02
  Speaker A: We did. Oh, thank you. Hold on.
• 57:06
  Speaker B: If they're. If they came in on Apple yet, because, like, they'll show up as, like, numbers. Yeah. We're at 236, you guys, thank you so much. I can't wait to read them.
• 57:18
  Speaker A: I love our listeners. Thank you all.
• 57:20
  Speaker B: Thanks. Bye.
• 57:22
  Speaker A: Bye.
• 57:23
  Speaker B: This has been a common mystics Media Production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.