Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Empire of Death

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Si Hart about their choice of Empire of Death · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Previously on a hamster with a blunt and knife he has hidden.
• 0:05
  In the howling void he has hidden within The Tempest, he
• 0:09
  has braved the storm and the darkness and the pain.
• 0:13
  And he whispered to the vessel all this time He whispered and
• 0:17
  delighted and seduced. And the vessel did obey.
• 0:20
  For none should be more mighty, and none should be more smutty
• 0:23
  than the King himself. And the Lord of Podcasts was
• 0:26
  blamed in vain and knew nothing. There was strictly come hamsters
• 0:31
  Rod, the God of talking bollocks.
• 0:34
  There was Mark from Trap one, the God of puns.
• 0:37
  There was two Wachoo, the gods of mispronunciation.
• 0:41
  There was Toby, the God of post credits.
• 0:44
  There was 2 hot food TV, the God of utter niche crap.
• 0:49
  There were the gods of space reasons of flights their
• 0:51
  entirety and 500 year Diaries. There was Simon, the God of
• 0:56
  tales of youth and his children called the Library of Impossible
• 1:00
  Things and Maximum Power, and standing on high is the mother
• 1:04
  and Father and other of them all.
• 1:06
  For the God of all gods has returned, and his names are
• 1:09
  many. His name has been Naimon, an
• 1:13
  untitled Star Trek project, an hamster, and his one true name
• 1:19
  forevermore is Joe Board. Hello.
• 1:24
  Hello. All right, You might have just
• 1:31
  topped Robot of Sherwood at last.
• 1:34
  And now the conclusion. Well, if it's the conclusion, if
• 1:39
  we're going to do a conclusion of The Legend of Ruby Sunday
• 1:42
  commentary, I suppose we should follow the episode and make it
• 1:45
  disappointed and something that nobody likes.
• 1:49
  Well, apparently people don't like this, no?
• 1:52
  I have heard this rumour, you know.
• 1:54
  Yes, Well, nevermind those people.
• 1:57
  What did you think of it, Fraser?
• 2:01
  Oh, good question. Was it what I was expecting?
• 2:10
  Yes. Was it what I was wanting?
• 2:13
  No. So there's and I think this is
• 2:20
  something we all agree on. There is some good bits of this,
• 2:23
  there's some really good bits of this and there's some bobbins as
• 2:27
  well. Fans who have followed our
• 2:31
  recordings in the past will be delighted to know that we do get
• 2:34
  to play a Golden Bollocks once again in this episode.
• 2:38
  When it's been a while, it has been a while, but yes, Golden
• 2:41
  Bollocks is back from another round, so mixed bag.
• 2:46
  I'll see. Well, sorry.
• 2:52
  I came out of the cinema quite stunned a because it was
• 2:56
  incredibly late and I had a very long day and I was very tired.
• 3:01
  And I came out thinking that was both absolutely brilliant and
• 3:06
  absolutely awful. And I cannot decide which way it
• 3:11
  fell on that, because I think certain parts of the story hit
• 3:16
  really well and other parts of it were complete and utter tosh.
• 3:22
  So. I can't wait till I'm.
• 3:25
  Like that, yes, my my opinion of it has crystallized somewhat.
• 3:29
  Watching it again for the first time since the cinema this week,
• 3:34
  but I'm not going to tell you quite yet how I'm falling.
• 3:37
  Oh. Well, just like Fraser.
• 3:40
  Was it what I expected? No, not at all.
• 3:45
  In fact, I put out some pretty crazy theories at the end of
• 3:49
  Legend of Ruby Sunday commentary.
• 3:50
  Everyone put out some pretty crazy theories.
• 3:53
  None of which came true. Was it what I wanted?
• 3:58
  Yes. But I do have a lingering
• 4:01
  feeling of disappointment and I don't know why.
• 4:04
  Because I watched it this morning and I really quite
• 4:08
  enjoyed it and I seen the scene. I think it all works, but
• 4:13
  something, somewhere in this episode my brain is saying no,
• 4:19
  this is not good enough or this is not what I wanted.
• 4:24
  So I'm hoping as we talk about it throughout the episode, we'll
• 4:27
  try and understand all of this. It's interesting what you've
• 4:32
  said about coming out the cinema, being stunned because we
• 4:34
  all, all three of us went to the cinema, didn't want to watch it
• 4:37
  and not. Together, unfortunately.
• 4:39
  Not together. I went to the Odeon and the
• 4:42
  Micro Centre up in Newcastle. I went to the Cineworld in
• 4:45
  Bracknell. I went to the Cineworld in
• 4:47
  Crawley. Yeah.
• 4:49
  So I don't know what it was like for you guys, but going in there
• 4:52
  was a real buzz. Huge buzz, yeah.
• 4:55
  There was in Bracknell. There was nothing.
• 4:58
  What's that? No, it was really interesting, I
• 5:00
  think because our Cineworld added it at barely last minute
• 5:05
  and I bought tickets on the morning of the showing because I
• 5:10
  wasn't decided whether I was going or not.
• 5:12
  And then half the cinema was was empty.
• 5:15
  So I think neighbouring cinemas obviously had had a lot more
• 5:20
  people. And there was, it was him quiet
• 5:24
  all the way through everyone, no one was, was chatting.
• 5:27
  It was very, very odd. My cinema was full of kids,
• 5:31
  which made me so wow because because I'm being told by people
• 5:35
  quite a lot that kids don't watch Doctor Who anymore.
• 5:38
  And actually it was all sort of teenagers, you know, late, late
• 5:42
  teenagers. And some of them were very loud
• 5:44
  and a bit obnoxious. Reminded me of me at that age,
• 5:46
  you know, honest telling me, oh, the best story of the David
• 5:49
  Tennant era is Blink and all of this.
• 5:52
  So you'd have been sitting there apoplectic listening to them.
• 5:54
  But when we came out you could have heard a pin drop except for
• 5:57
  this one kid who was the most obnoxious of all children,
• 6:02
  telling all of his friends why it was the biggest part of shit
• 6:04
  he'd ever seen in. His life.
• 6:06
  He's a fan for life. It was similar up in at the
• 6:11
  centre because you know, there was, it was quite a young crowd
• 6:14
  going in and there was there's a dollar in the foyer and there
• 6:17
  was, you know, some giving up Flyers for some prop store
• 6:21
  that's up nearby, which I didn't know about.
• 6:22
  So, you know, there was a bit of a feeling of a buzz going in and
• 6:26
  obviously we did, you know, legend Ruby Sunday, we had the,
• 6:29
  you know, 15 minute break in between and which took over past
• 6:33
  midnight. And then, you know, Empire of
• 6:36
  Death played and again coming out, it was just flat.
• 6:40
  It was really flat atmosphere. It was just.
• 6:42
  Why? Some guy cornered me in the car
• 6:45
  park and said what did you think of that?
• 6:47
  He said, you know, he said I can see because I was wearing my
• 6:49
  Doctor Who T-shirt. He said you were at the cinema,
• 6:51
  weren't you? He said, what did you think of
• 6:52
  that? And I said, I have no idea.
• 6:55
  And he said, I'm exactly the same.
• 6:57
  You said I cannot get a handle on on that at all.
• 7:01
  I think you know, if if I watch the 1st 5 minutes of this and
• 7:07
  the last five minutes, I've got a pretty perfect up to episode
• 7:13
  10 minutes of absolute gold. I think it might just be a lot
• 7:16
  of the stuff in the middle. I think the middle of the stuff
• 7:19
  is absolutely fine. For me it really falls.
• 7:22
  The wheels fall off big style at the end and I think.
• 7:26
  See, they've seen it. The cafe was my favorite.
• 7:29
  We'll come to that. We'll discuss that when we get
• 7:31
  there, unless you want to discuss it now.
• 7:33
  But it's I think we're starting to need to start them given to
• 7:39
  be here dork # every time we mention the word and
• 7:42
  disappointment. Oh yes.
• 7:44
  Because I think that's exactly what happened with.
• 7:46
  This was the build up from Legend of Ruby Someday.
• 7:53
  The horse suit, that thing, the whole Susan twist and Ruby's mom
• 7:57
  and everything. The build up to the finale in
• 8:03
  that respect was just too much. And you know.
• 8:08
  He's done that to himself, hasn't he?
• 8:09
  Because he puts so much in this season that was leading up to
• 8:13
  this finale. The snow falling, Carol of the
• 8:16
  Bells, Ruby's mom, you know Susan Twist, all of.
• 8:21
  Misses Flood. And and really the season how
• 8:26
  people, because I know Luke Malloy, who loved the season but
• 8:29
  hated this episode and he says it's tarnished the whole season.
• 8:33
  He won't be able to go back and watch this season without
• 8:35
  feeling that that pang of disappointment from Empire of
• 8:38
  Death and. Some of it has come from Russell
• 8:41
  T Davis himself. In all those interviews in the
• 8:44
  week before with the Oh, you won't believe what's going to
• 8:47
  happen and all things are and all marvellous and everything
• 8:51
  else. And it's, it's that selling it
• 8:53
  to the people who are going to watch it.
• 8:55
  But it also ends up with the disappointment of everyone
• 9:00
  watching it because half the things that he he teased were
• 9:05
  just bollocks. I mean, I'm old enough to
• 9:09
  remember the last time Russell T Davis said the Doctor Who was
• 9:12
  going to face his most powerful, most deadly, most amazing enemy
• 9:15
  ever. And it was probably the week
• 9:17
  before this one. And it's what he does.
• 9:20
  He's a showman, you know? He was never did it, did it.
• 9:23
  No. I'm surprised people were as
• 9:25
  disappointed as they were with Ship as finales because he never
• 9:29
  made these promises. It's, it's, it's what Rusty
• 9:32
  does. He's he's a show man.
• 9:33
  He puts on the gram and he puts on the glitz and he puts on his
• 9:36
  top hat and goes out to the Barnabas Beauty Barnabas
• 9:40
  essentially. And you know what, what else is
• 9:44
  he going to do? He's not going to do anything
• 9:45
  other than that is he's never going to come out and say, well,
• 9:47
  yeah, I skipped this one this week, lads.
• 9:50
  And it's a bit slow, It's a bit dull.
• 9:51
  Shoot, he's not in it. Just, you know, if there's one
• 9:54
  to skip, it's this one. You know, he's never going to
• 9:57
  come out and say, yeah, it's sort of middle tier, middle
• 9:59
  tier, but body this one. Yeah, I think his best bit of
• 10:04
  publicity was getting Cyndi Lauper to watch and then come on
• 10:09
  The One Show and say, oh, I watched that the other night.
• 10:12
  Come on, That's what was on last night.
• 10:18
  And Bonnie Langford goes, yes, Pyramus Mars.
• 10:21
  Did you watch it? And she's like, yeah, that's
• 10:23
  right. She never watched it.
• 10:28
  But you know, I'm. I did get me to thinking about
• 10:30
  finales and how my overriding impression of Doctor Who new
• 10:37
  series finales is disappointment.
• 10:39
  And I can only think of maybe three occasions where I'm like,
• 10:45
  wow, that was the one of the best of the year partner.
• 10:48
  The ways the Doctor falls. And even though it's not the
• 10:53
  finale of the season, it is a finale of sorts.
• 10:56
  Power of the Doctor, That's the only the only three times.
• 11:00
  All the rest, I was sort of thinking, yeah, I came away with
• 11:03
  a lingering sense. Could be better.
• 11:06
  I have such happy memories of Doomsday and Journeys End
• 11:11
  because they were broadcast around my birthday and it was
• 11:14
  birthday party nights and it was the the particular Journey's
• 11:19
  End. I just remember there being 20
• 11:22
  people crammed into my tiny living room whooping and
• 11:25
  enjoying that episode and just just brilliant.
• 11:31
  Absolutely. I'm just so, yeah, I, I think
• 11:34
  that one stands up really well. I love that episode.
• 11:37
  But it's not like an amazing hit rate, is it?
• 11:40
  Quite finale. We'll pick it up again when we
• 11:43
  play Golden bollocks at the end of the episode.
• 11:45
  OK. But I kind of agree with with
• 11:48
  you, Joe. I think doctor falls and well
• 11:51
  enough in time is is, you know, stunning episode really the
• 11:55
  vanquishes. I'll jump in the vanquishes all
• 11:58
  day long because I think that was.
• 12:00
  I mean, it's a good episode, but I ain't an absolute banger.
• 12:03
  It's I put as a finale, though, as a way of wrapping up that
• 12:07
  season. I think that really, you know,
• 12:10
  hit the spot and you know the line and I.
• 12:11
  Absolutely adore the Pandorica opens and The Big Bang.
• 12:15
  No, I know Joe doesn't. Big Bang is just bullshit.
• 12:18
  Brilliant. Yeah, I think it's, I think Big
• 12:20
  Bang is another. Because it doesn't do what
• 12:23
  Russell T Davis is ends do. It does something.
• 12:28
  Completely played by its own role.
• 12:30
  So that's a magical ending. Yeah, bomb it I'm.
• 12:34
  A fairy tale. I do think Bad Wolf and Pine in
• 12:37
  the way. So I think that's that's and I
• 12:39
  know it's got a Deus in it, I know it does, but I don't care
• 12:42
  because the emotions land so strong.
• 12:45
  Yeah. And I think that's what's
• 12:46
  missing here because I feel like the the ending with Ruby and her
• 12:50
  mom is a good ending, but it just doesn't have that punch
• 12:53
  that I come to expect from a Rusty Davis finale.
• 12:58
  OK, I'll keep me powder dry until we get.
• 13:01
  OK. So a lot.
• 13:02
  I have I have opinions on that. You you Fraser opinions.
• 13:08
  I know, I know. I'm still recovering from when
• 13:11
  he said he agreed with me earlier in this episode.
• 13:16
  What should we watch? The screens sort of unpick it as
• 13:20
  we go. And then it's an interesting,
• 13:23
  it's a different tone, this conversation because we went
• 13:25
  into Legend of Ruby Sunday full of excitement.
• 13:28
  This is this is This Is Us coming out the cinema and going,
• 13:32
  huh. OK, that's, well, that was an
• 13:35
  episode of TV's Doctor Who, Yes. Well, I will reiterate, I don't
• 13:41
  think this is a bad episode, I just don't think it was as good
• 13:45
  as it could have been. Yeah.
• 13:47
  OK, well someone count as him. OK, in 54321, let's go nay.
• 13:59
  Suitex Dust of Death. The first logo does annoy me a
• 14:04
  little bit at the beginning of every episode.
• 14:08
  Oh, that is a big dog. That is.
• 14:12
  I mean, I love this cliffhanger. I loved her turning into the
• 14:15
  zombie. It's good, isn't it?
• 14:18
  It's good, it's a bit of AI mean.
• 14:20
  Chibnall got slated, didn't he, for having a cliffhanger
• 14:22
  resolution where the doctor just ducked out the way.
• 14:24
  So I don't think Rusty can avoid that criticism as well.
• 14:30
  I mean Mafia doesn't even resolve his cliffhangers, he
• 14:32
  just goes off somewhere else. I would say the title sequence
• 14:36
  looked lovely on the cinema. Screen Oh, didn't it?
• 14:38
  I mean, the whole thing looked lovely.
• 14:40
  I mean the special effects in a minute of all the dust going
• 14:42
  through the. Really good.
• 14:43
  I mean, I've walked down that street in Cardiff.
• 14:47
  I went to the cinema down there. It's the one time I can actually
• 14:50
  say it looked cinematic because I was in the cinema.
• 14:53
  No, the IT looked the part and the sound as well.
• 14:55
  I think having the the cinema sound really.
• 14:59
  Yeah, that really helped, didn't it?
• 15:01
  This special effect of the dust being blown through the hands
• 15:04
  out and turning everybody that's.
• 15:06
  Great, isn't it? Fabulous.
• 15:08
  That's where the Disney money is in this episode.
• 15:11
  And the the effects of the people crumbling is really,
• 15:14
  really good. So is this what we we would have
• 15:18
  had in Pyramids of Mars if Sue Tech hadn't have been zapped off
• 15:22
  into the time vortex? Well, possibly, but Sutex
• 15:27
  evolved. Tassani apparently has more
• 15:30
  powers now, so. I can't wait till we get to the
• 15:33
  pit. I'm clinging on to the TARDIS.
• 15:35
  I must know what you think of this.
• 15:38
  There's. There's the unit shoot out with
• 15:40
  Morris Barry with these machine gun.
• 15:43
  Boris Barry, What the? Hell is Rose Noble doing?
• 15:47
  The blinks with the laser eyes and everyone else with a gun
• 15:49
  and. How is Boris managing to shoot
• 15:52
  from behind everyone else and missing everyone else in front
• 15:55
  of him? The only thing is, is like, just
• 15:58
  like last of the time was right, the second these people that we
• 16:01
  love and know and have known for seasons and seasons are going to
• 16:04
  die, you're like, well, there's going to be a reset of.
• 16:07
  Course, of course, for a moment I thought, well, maybe they'll
• 16:12
  just kill Kate. And then I thought and, and her
• 16:19
  lines, her, her sort of little quote to the doctor on when
• 16:24
  here, when she's talking to him, it's really beautiful.
• 16:27
  And I just thought. Oh, I hate that line.
• 16:30
  It's not. I really didn't like that line.
• 16:33
  Birds will sing again. You know what?
• 16:36
  It's a very Kate left, my father said Kate birds will sing again
• 16:39
  tell. You.
• 16:42
  Did I tell you I'm daughter of Brigadier Left Bridge Stuart?
• 16:46
  Tell you what the problem with that line is.
• 16:48
  It's a beautiful line, but it comes in the wrong place because
• 16:53
  Kate is in UNIT HQ in the locked room.
• 16:57
  You know, how does she know what's what's happening outside?
• 16:59
  She doesn't. All she knows is what's
• 17:01
  happening in this room. So where's she getting this idea
• 17:03
  of birds from? You know, and.
• 17:05
  Oh, it's just no one's poetic in the moment of their death.
• 17:09
  I'll just shout out Marks a 9.5. If you if you put Kate left the
• 17:17
  rich Stewart in a bunker, you know, I thought they weren't
• 17:22
  going to kill off. I thought they were going to
• 17:24
  kill off the blinks and they're going to kill off Abraham, but
• 17:27
  not her. But then when she did,
• 17:28
  obviously, yes, it's a reset coming.
• 17:30
  So if you'd kind of put her in a bunker, bunker 17 with
• 17:35
  Lieutenant Sullivan who disappears, never, never comes
• 17:38
  to go back. And then had that lane a little
• 17:40
  bit further down. You know, if you think you know
• 17:42
  when he's wandering the there's a planet looking for his spoon,
• 17:45
  his magic spoon and have that line there where Kate is one of
• 17:49
  the few survivors on earth and then delivers that line that
• 17:52
  it's that would hit massively hard in that point.
• 17:56
  It's just it just looked like Jesus.
• 17:59
  What's? Mrs. Heath blood going on about.
• 18:02
  And I don't know, I do like, I do like the mystery of her
• 18:05
  though. It's great, isn't it?
• 18:06
  And that little had. Such plans I Is it the Rani?
• 18:14
  It's Ramana, I tell you. It's Ramana.
• 18:16
  We still have that. Why would her mother be saying
• 18:20
  such ambiguous lines like this? Because.
• 18:22
  She's been through the Time War and she had to lead the Time
• 18:25
  Lords, was deposed by, I've heard the big Finnish
• 18:28
  adventures. Because I think we're going to
• 18:30
  be a bit down on this episode in a few places.
• 18:33
  I want to say that sequence of Mel and the Doctor flying
• 18:38
  through the streets trying to escape that dust coming through.
• 18:41
  It's dynamic and it's Mel at her fabulous best.
• 18:46
  And. Orange.
• 18:48
  Yes, that's. That's your Disney who isn't it?
• 18:50
  That's that's where your Disney's coming in of.
• 18:53
  It's very marvely in that respect.
• 18:56
  I also think that pretty much every bit of characterization
• 18:59
  for Mel in this episode is spot on when she walks in that memory
• 19:02
  TARDIS and sees Collins Co and hug Sylvester's jumper.
• 19:07
  Yeah, beautiful. So the creation of the Memory
• 19:11
  TARDIS. Yes, yes.
• 19:14
  That's bollocks, isn't it? This is just this is, this is a
• 19:21
  machine that unit has created that has somehow made something
• 19:24
  real out of a videotape. Yes.
• 19:30
  But it's just. It's just as bullshit as as
• 19:33
  creating that's hardest in the doctor's life out of bits and
• 19:35
  bulbs. It's not, it's, it's remembering
• 19:38
  the Doctor in The Big Bang. Amy remembers the Doctor, the
• 19:43
  Doctor comes back, Ruby remembers the tortoise.
• 19:46
  So we get, you know, the, the memory tortoise, but it's, it's
• 19:49
  kind of Chekhov's TARDIS as well, because it's, it's seated
• 19:52
  in your legend of Ruby Sunday where they said, oh, that
• 19:54
  tortoise looks almost real, doesn't it looks like, almost
• 19:58
  solid. And you know the you know, time
• 20:00
  is memory, memories, time and. I can't really criticize it too
• 20:04
  much just because having all of that gubbins from across 60
• 20:08
  years of Doctor Who all in one set, like I have paused this
• 20:12
  couple of times and gone looking for things.
• 20:15
  You know, it's a it's a it might be a bit of a silly idea, but
• 20:19
  man, oh man, the more you spot, the more your heart gets warm.
• 20:23
  I think you've asked Sue Tech being a massive dog a.
• 20:28
  Good boy. Well, he's not.
• 20:31
  He's just murdered everyone on the earth.
• 20:34
  Can someone answer if I missed something in the episode, but
• 20:39
  why doesn't he just walk off the TARDIS?
• 20:44
  Is he linked to the TARDIS in some way?
• 20:47
  Because I. Think he's trying to hatch
• 20:49
  another one. Well, also as well he's been,
• 20:53
  he's been sitting on the TARDIS now for about 15 eons, you know,
• 20:58
  there. It is.
• 21:01
  Come on then, let's deal with this now.
• 21:03
  Sue Tech on the TARDIS in every single story from Pyramid to
• 21:08
  Mars was ever since I first came into fandom in The Leisure High
• 21:14
  and Season 17, Sue Tech's been clinging on to the TARDIS.
• 21:17
  How do you feel? It doesn't.
• 21:21
  No. It doesn't.
• 21:22
  It doesn't stand up any sort of scrutiny, no.
• 21:25
  Not least because I think Rusty's got the wrong end of the
• 21:28
  stick from Pyramids and Moss because the the Doctor never put
• 21:33
  Suitek into the time vortex. He just moved the threshold of
• 21:38
  the of his. Tunnel.
• 21:40
  It wasn't even a time tunnel. It was just a space tunnel.
• 21:45
  It was like a little wormhole from.
• 21:47
  And he moved it, Yeah. And he moved, connected it to
• 21:50
  the time control of the tart. I know that's the time control
• 21:53
  of the TARDIS, but what did? You do.
• 21:55
  Well he moved the end of the tunnel further in time so that
• 22:00
  by the time suit that got to the end of it he would have died his
• 22:03
  natural lifespan. So he never put him into the
• 22:05
  time board like so? I just think we've run out.
• 22:08
  We've run out of ways to shock the audience now with twists
• 22:12
  about the Doctor because we've done the fugitive Dr. and we've
• 22:15
  done the War Doctor and all of this, and we do twists with
• 22:18
  companions all the time. So the only thing we've really
• 22:20
  got left now to shock us is to tell this.
• 22:23
  Yeah. And.
• 22:24
  I'm just not shocked. No, And I'm just, I'm just like,
• 22:28
  I'm just like I don't want him to be on there in all that
• 22:31
  stories. So I choose to scrub this part
• 22:35
  of Canon from my mind. I.
• 22:38
  Think it's it speaks to the same issue that you have with sort of
• 22:41
  Clara as the impossible girl and sort of whenever you're kind of
• 22:46
  bringing in some new idea, some new mythology, I'll continue it
• 22:51
  or whatever that is supposed to go spread back through the
• 22:54
  timeline. If it's not actually been there
• 22:57
  to start with, it just doesn't fit, you know, so it just you
• 23:01
  know, you look at this and you go, Oh well, you know, Suitek,
• 23:04
  yes, a vault. This is, you know, it's one of
• 23:06
  the planets that gets up. But you know, so does that mean
• 23:08
  that the 4th Doctor went back to Vorpus at some point or you
• 23:12
  know, all these, you know, spirit on does he go back have.
• 23:15
  You not seen Return to the Web Planet, starring Peter Davidson
• 23:19
  and Sarah Sutton from Big Finish.
• 23:21
  I have not seen it, no. Oh, shut up.
• 23:26
  So it's it, it just doesn't hold up scrutiny, does it?
• 23:29
  Because this is too many holes that you when you, when you,
• 23:33
  when you retcon and say. Problem you've got with
• 23:36
  Torchwood suddenly having been there all the time through
• 23:39
  history when it obviously wasn't there through history before.
• 23:44
  Yeah, exactly. And you're just going to pretend
• 23:46
  they were just slight doing something slightly off screen
• 23:50
  for a bit? Although I do love the visual of
• 23:52
  him just spinning the TARDIS around.
• 23:54
  The dog spinning the TARDIS around at one point, That looked
• 23:56
  really great. It's a small thing, but I, oh, I
• 24:00
  know, that's lovely, isn't? It isn't it.
• 24:02
  And I I was that in the script or is that just Bonnie going
• 24:05
  over and seeing that and? It's probably a little bit of
• 24:09
  both, isn't? It the one good thing about the
• 24:13
  Russell writing this into this this script was that he then
• 24:18
  came up with the idea for the tales of the TARDIS afterwards
• 24:22
  where the memory TARDIS goes on. And so we got all those lovely
• 24:25
  things last year because because.
• 24:28
  The trouble with seeing that TARDIS, though, in terms of the
• 24:32
  TARDIS, means it sort of gusts this a little bit because we've
• 24:35
  seen. It because we've seen it.
• 24:36
  Yeah, yeah. But I can see why he did it
• 24:38
  because he didn't really cover all the bases in the 60th.
• 24:41
  So I can see what he did. The extra go go and go back to
• 24:43
  the Suto thing on the TARDIS for a second.
• 24:46
  I think it's one of the rare times of Russell doing a big
• 24:50
  idea and getting it wrong. He often gets it right.
• 24:54
  He often makes us look at Doctor Who in new and unusual ways, and
• 24:59
  this is trying to make us look at something that we know
• 25:03
  really, really well in a completely different way.
• 25:05
  And I think pretty much everybody has gone no it.
• 25:10
  Kind of goes back to what I said.
• 25:11
  It's when we did legend Ruby Sunday.
• 25:15
  You know, it's it's sue tech is the problem really.
• 25:19
  You know, if it because it's because you've made it sue tech.
• 25:23
  You need to then explain why Sue tech is now sort of like a God.
• 25:27
  So you're kind of invest in them with more, you know, back story
• 25:34
  or whatever. If it was just a God, if it was
• 25:37
  just Stan, the God of Postman or whatever is the one that waits,
• 25:41
  then it you don't have to have that that kind of expensive.
• 25:46
  More amusing see an apartment clean onto the edge of the
• 25:49
  Tardis. Or you don't.
• 25:50
  You don't need to do that though.
• 25:51
  You don't need to have the clinging of the TARDIS.
• 25:53
  You don't need to have the whole, you know, or he was there
• 25:56
  all the time, he was you. Couldn't just bring him back.
• 25:58
  In his patrol or? You could easily just do that by
• 26:02
  saying when the doctor weakened the fabric between the different
• 26:06
  dimensions. This will cause the end of
• 26:10
  Suitex time tunnel to. That was what people were
• 26:13
  saying. That's what people were
• 26:14
  guessing. And then, and then you could
• 26:17
  say, and then I grabbed the hold of the TARDIS at the at the end
• 26:21
  of the universe and have been there ever since.
• 26:25
  And that explains why then we're hearing those very creepy
• 26:28
  indigestion noises from the TARDIS from space Babies
• 26:31
  onwards. Yeah, well, from wild blue
• 26:34
  Yonder onwards, because again, it's it's it's a problem because
• 26:37
  you don't hear that noise at any other point in the last 60
• 26:39
  years. So you know, unless he's unless
• 26:43
  he's going to like re edit, you know, a few more things and
• 26:47
  stick a bit more lugopolous music and.
• 26:49
  Some of this phrases, this story work, but the way he's done it
• 26:54
  doesn't work. And this is because it's working
• 26:56
  from his childhood image of Sue Tech clinging on to the TARDIS
• 27:01
  that he had when he was seven or eight years old, or.
• 27:04
  What? He said that in the publicity as
• 27:06
  well, isn't it? It's an idea that's been forming
• 27:07
  in his head for years and years. But if that's the case, why
• 27:10
  didn't he do it in RTD one? Probably didn't have the budget.
• 27:16
  That's true. Or because also you had other
• 27:22
  bigger things to bring back for the first time in the season?
• 27:27
  Finales generally. Although to give Stephen Moffy
• 27:31
  his credit, you know, I have watched the Five Doctors
• 27:35
  recently and you can see Clara in that field behind John
• 27:38
  Berkeley's car, and I've watched Dragon Fire and there she is on
• 27:42
  the ice space. You can just see her leather
• 27:45
  jacket in the distance. You know, he's just picking up
• 27:47
  on all the things he's seen when he was younger.
• 27:51
  Oh, this is a gorgeous shot. I think all of these shots sort.
• 27:54
  Of. Being in the TARDIS in space,
• 27:56
  and there's a bit later, the bit later where he sort of all the
• 27:59
  worlds are being destroyed, which is a powerful idea.
• 28:03
  The well, we'll get on to that as well because that's another
• 28:05
  thing we've got to discuss, the idea that because he's travelled
• 28:08
  to these worlds, all these worlds are being destroyed.
• 28:11
  Because the idea of punishing the Doctor for being an
• 28:13
  adventurer I don't really like, but we'll get there.
• 28:16
  But he goes right to the door and I see him, screams and Mel
• 28:19
  grabs him as if she thinks he's going to commit suicide.
• 28:22
  Like it's a really great moment. I mean, there's a lot of nice
• 28:27
  bits in this, this scene, obviously just going about what
• 28:31
  we're saying about like, you know, the because of the tales
• 28:34
  of the TARDIS, we knew the memory TARDIS, you know, so when
• 28:36
  he walks through the door and we see, oh, it's the memory
• 28:38
  tortoise. I think that actually adds a
• 28:39
  little bit because you don't go, oh, what's this?
• 28:41
  Then you actually go, oh, it's the memory TARDIS.
• 28:44
  So it, you know, it's, I think it does that does add a little
• 28:48
  bit knowing what, what it is. And there was the scene,
• 28:52
  obviously when they're talking about 73 yards in the perception
• 28:54
  filter and how that works. You know, I'm the perception
• 28:57
  for. I think that's just a nonsense
• 28:59
  idea that he's come up with, to be honest And but I was really
• 29:03
  worried at that point he was going to spoil 73 yards the
• 29:06
  school. Well, absolutely, yes.
• 29:09
  By by kind of over explaining, you know, what was what was
• 29:14
  happening in that, because one of the joys of that for me is,
• 29:17
  is that you never get a clear explanation of of what's going
• 29:19
  on. I don't know if you guys have
• 29:21
  aware of the comic. Why the last man?
• 29:25
  No. I've heard of it.
• 29:26
  Yes, it's, it's really it's a Brian Vaughan comic where the,
• 29:32
  the premise it would have been, it was sure.
• 29:33
  The premise is that in an instant, every mammal with a
• 29:37
  white chromosome dies apart from one guy.
• 29:42
  And he's he's he's monkey. And so this the story is this
• 29:45
  this one guy and he's male pet monkey who all like wandering
• 29:48
  the earth trying to find out what's gone on and trying to
• 29:50
  find his girlfriend and, you know, the society collapsing
• 29:53
  because you know, half the populations just instantly died
• 29:57
  and, and dealing with all that. It's a fantastic comic book
• 30:00
  book. The clever thing about it is
• 30:02
  there's about half a dozen explanations as to why that
• 30:04
  happened throughout it, but you're never told which one it
• 30:08
  is. So you know about, you know, 6-6
• 30:13
  or seven, you know, different explanations is why what it
• 30:15
  could be, but you're never told which one it is.
• 30:17
  And that's that's 73 yards as well.
• 30:19
  So when he was starting to talk about strange that he's like,
• 30:22
  stop it. Stop it.
• 30:23
  Well, no, she goes. It's 73 yards.
• 30:25
  How do you know that? She goes, Oh, I'm not sure
• 30:27
  that's it. That's all we get.
• 30:29
  But then, is this episode a good example of why giving everybody
• 30:34
  all the answers can sometimes be far less satisfying than keeping
• 30:38
  things a little ambiguous? Oh, for sure.
• 30:41
  Or do you just need to find better?
• 30:42
  Answers explained. I think there's certain elements
• 30:46
  which are under explained which we're going to come to towards
• 30:48
  the end. This bit, Oh my, it's.
• 30:50
  Amazing, isn't it? Like he's.
• 30:52
  Away from all of the writing, Shooting at White is incredible
• 30:56
  in this episode. Absolutely.
• 30:58
  He's been incredible. He's been good through
• 31:01
  throughout the entire series. But it doesn't.
• 31:03
  Stop crying now. Well.
• 31:04
  This is something I wanted to discuss.
• 31:07
  I like the crying. Yeah.
• 31:07
  But not every week. I mean, it doesn't have any
• 31:10
  impact anymore. That's why you have the scenes
• 31:14
  like that and you have your scene at the end of that you
• 31:18
  love at the end of Top and Bubble where you know he's he's
• 31:20
  rage and frustration comes out and just like it does that and
• 31:24
  that means a lot more powerful. You know, if he then if he just
• 31:29
  did the sort of tenant and stood at the door and shed a tear
• 31:32
  because he's shedding tears throughout.
• 31:34
  He needs to to really sell the next the next level of emotion.
• 31:39
  He really needs to do something more.
• 31:40
  So he has that these outbursts of just pure emotion.
• 31:43
  I just feel like I can't vocalize what he's feeling.
• 31:46
  So he's just owling the. Next level of powerful every
• 31:49
  single week though, because he's he's blobbing every week.
• 31:52
  I mean, don't get me wrong, I love a bloke who's in touch with
• 31:55
  his emotions. That's why we're having this
• 31:56
  conversation right now. But I think.
• 31:59
  You can be too much in touch with your emotions sometimes.
• 32:01
  That that's his level, that's his base level is, you know, he
• 32:04
  gets upset, he shows his emotions and he, you know, he
• 32:07
  cries. He's he's bubbly, he's he's
• 32:10
  very, you know, he's, he's the complete opposite of what mostly
• 32:14
  did with the 10th doctor in terms of, you know, being so,
• 32:18
  you know, withdrawn and, you know, the, the lonely God sort
• 32:21
  of thing. He's a very more out there and
• 32:23
  very more, you know, emotional doctor.
• 32:26
  So part of that is, you know, obviously he gets upset and he
• 32:28
  cries and they have that happens every week.
• 32:30
  So that's his baseline that his just just his normal.
• 32:33
  And the really exciting bit is when he then has to show, you
• 32:37
  know, he is really upset. You know, if it was just tenant
• 32:40
  or Matt Smith or someone, then that TI would do it.
• 32:43
  But shoot, he can't do that. So he's got to do something
• 32:46
  extra and that is really powerful.
• 32:48
  Can't have him go into operatic levels all the time.
• 32:50
  Just. You don't know this.
• 32:51
  Baseline is crying but. He doesn't go to operatic levels
• 32:54
  all the time. That's the point.
• 32:57
  There's a few times this season he has where he's been howling
• 32:59
  his head. Off yes, and that's re.
• 33:01
  That's the point the few times he does land.
• 33:04
  It's much more effective than the tears.
• 33:06
  It's like when Simon drops an F bomb.
• 33:09
  Always well timed and it makes an.
• 33:10
  Impact. If Simon dropped an F bomb all
• 33:13
  the time, he doesn't lose his impact.
• 33:16
  That's what I'm saying, he doesn't drop an F bomb all the
• 33:17
  time. You'll drop a bollocks of a of a
• 33:20
  crap here in there, but he keeps the F bombs for maximum effect.
• 33:24
  A well timed fuck always goes down well.
• 33:29
  That's what you said to me last time I visited.
• 33:34
  A rumours start. Joe, this is a great scene.
• 33:37
  Isn't it? I think this.
• 33:39
  Is not our people are baffled what it is saying.
• 33:42
  Well, it is baffling and it but it's baffling and brilliant and
• 33:46
  it's it's a little 2 hander in the middle of this episode that
• 33:51
  I think really sells the devastation of the universe.
• 33:55
  And the idea that the dust and the degradation is passing
• 34:01
  backwards in time down people's timelines is that's a brilliant,
• 34:07
  brilliant. That's a whole story's worth of
• 34:09
  idea that isn't. It's just thrown away.
• 34:11
  When I heard people saying well what was the point of that?
• 34:16
  You stopped the action for like 5 minutes to have this piece.
• 34:20
  But I'm like, no, this is the point.
• 34:21
  This is what Rusty does. He takes a massive idea like
• 34:24
  world's being destroyed and brings it down to the level of a
• 34:28
  mother and her child and the child being dead, and that's
• 34:32
  your emotional win. That the mother has forgotten.
• 34:35
  Oh, I think I forgot I. Think she's probably dead.
• 34:40
  And then the doctor goes, yeah, I think she is.
• 34:42
  I think this. Is this is?
• 34:44
  This is gold. This is.
• 34:47
  As Marigold this. Is and this is.
• 34:49
  Sheffield Steel, but it's gold. This is, this is what you, this
• 34:52
  is what you bring Rusty back for.
• 34:54
  Yeah, this sort of scene is what you want from him.
• 34:56
  And This is why I think a lot of the emotional beats of this
• 35:01
  story really, really hit and really work.
• 35:05
  It's just that the plotting and the story of the largest story
• 35:09
  around it, it doesn't work at all.
• 35:12
  And so you've got these moments of absolute brilliance and very
• 35:16
  special and lovely little bits that make you think, have I been
• 35:22
  wrong about the whole episode? And I and I, when I was watching
• 35:26
  it this week, these the bits that I loved, I still loved.
• 35:30
  I just really didn't like all the bits around it.
• 35:34
  And I think it's a terrible episode with some emotionally
• 35:38
  intelligent and brilliant high points.
• 35:42
  So that's the conclusion you've drawn.
• 35:44
  Yeah, I think it, I think it's probably the worst episode of
• 35:47
  the series. But the emotional beats hit
• 35:50
  home. Well, most of them.
• 35:53
  There's one that doesn't work. Do you think it's the worst
• 35:56
  episode of the season, Fraser? I don't think it is.
• 36:02
  I think sadly that's going to have to be space babies.
• 36:07
  But I mean, I feel bad seeing that about space babies because
• 36:11
  space babies got a job to do. Yes.
• 36:15
  If you listen to my trap one episode when I discuss space
• 36:17
  babies and you know what it's it's, it's there as a as a, it's
• 36:22
  got a function rather than anything else.
• 36:23
  You know, just yeah, it's. Rose and the End of the World
• 36:27
  blended with The Beast Below and The 11th Hour, and it's doing
• 36:31
  all of that once. Every other story apart from
• 36:34
  obviously this one and Ruby, the legendary Ruby Sunday, can do
• 36:40
  something else because it's not functional.
• 36:43
  You know, Space Babies has a job to do.
• 36:45
  The job of Space Babies is to introduce, reintroduce the
• 36:48
  doctor and the companion, show them together so that, you know,
• 36:51
  coming back after Christmas, you get a refresh, you get a
• 36:55
  reminder of what's what's going on.
• 36:57
  You just see them doing a bog standard story.
• 36:59
  That's what Space Babies is there to do.
• 37:01
  It does it perfectly well. Because zip.
• 37:04
  And funny lines and imagery. It's not.
• 37:08
  It's not. My least favorite is Rogue.
• 37:12
  I just, I do not buy the gay romance in Rogue at all.
• 37:15
  I've just felt like Jonathan Groff seemed bored in that role
• 37:19
  and I just didn't feel any heat between the two actors and
• 37:22
  didn't like the bird people either.
• 37:24
  So I just found that a bit. What's the word you said?
• 37:26
  Bog standard. That's how I found Rogue.
• 37:28
  But that's not to say there weren't some incredible highs
• 37:30
  this year. Look at Mel.
• 37:35
  Oh, this beginning of the end for Mel.
• 37:38
  No, this is the end. This is where Mel dies.
• 37:41
  If you think I mean, you know, it's it's it's really St.
• 37:43
  poster. You've gone from that scene
• 37:45
  where the woman forgets and is really exhausted and then Mel's
• 37:48
  true. Yeah.
• 37:49
  In that tortoise doing exactly the same.
• 37:50
  You know, there's obviously there's a really clear point
• 37:53
  where the doctor realizes this, but you know, at this point this
• 37:56
  is, you know, you expect off, expect them to just look up from
• 37:59
  your screen and go Mel and she's just.
• 38:02
  If you would have said to me you know when Rusty Davies come back
• 38:05
  we would have Sutek taking over Melanie Bush, I would have gone.
• 38:09
  How ridiculous. That sounds horrible really.
• 38:13
  Fan wank from the new invention. That's a really bad EDA.
• 38:16
  Isn't it? But actually I think it plays
• 38:20
  out brilliantly because she plays as a zombie excellently.
• 38:24
  Yeah, he's, he's trying to plot around Ruby's Mohammed at the
• 38:27
  minute. And it's, it's really confusing
• 38:29
  at this point, I think. Well, because the point in don't
• 38:33
  make no sense. Yes, yeah.
• 38:35
  What the fuck? Who points at a sign when you're
• 38:38
  not being observed to name their child?
• 38:42
  We'll come to that. We'll come to that.
• 38:43
  What? What 15 year old girl in 2000
• 38:47
  walks around in a great big cloak?
• 38:51
  Did I mean, excuse me? I had a whole wardrobe full of
• 38:54
  them when I was 15. She is obviously a fan of the
• 38:57
  Traitors. Simon so.
• 38:59
  Which hasn't been invented yet. Oh.
• 39:01
  Yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 39:02
  In 2024, yeah, I suppose, yes. What do you think about Shooty
• 39:07
  wearing just casual clothes all the time?
• 39:10
  Spy I don't have no problem. No, it was, it was.
• 39:15
  It was a bit strange in when Chris Hackleston just wore a
• 39:19
  leather jacket. He used to it now.
• 39:22
  Yeah, yeah. That, that felt a bit.
• 39:24
  Is that it? I think it would be annoying if
• 39:28
  he didn't carry off every single piece of clothing that they give
• 39:31
  him. He can wear anything.
• 39:33
  And that's also really annoying because.
• 39:36
  Even that, even that orange coat he's wearing, Yeah, in 73 yards.
• 39:40
  I mean, if I put that on I'd look bloody ridiculous.
• 39:44
  I mean, I'm not sure why the ball got changed to be honest.
• 39:47
  Just cold. Well.
• 39:49
  I thought in 73 yards that Roger at Gillham didn't come to be
• 39:54
  anymore. Because the timelines have yeah,
• 39:58
  mud, yeah, and. Does it make sense?
• 40:02
  No. Is this just tie it into 73
• 40:06
  yards It's. It's it's one of the sort of
• 40:08
  mysteries of 73 yards is, you know, what was the point of that
• 40:10
  bit? Because, you know, obviously
• 40:12
  Ruby thinks if I stop Mad Jack, you know, from getting the codes
• 40:17
  to the, the nuclear weapons, then that's going to send the,
• 40:23
  the woman away and so on and so forth.
• 40:25
  But you know, she does it and you think, oh, well, that's why
• 40:27
  I've got this woman. It's, you know, it's to stop
• 40:31
  this guy. But that doesn't work.
• 40:33
  And she's still there and ultimately doesn't.
• 40:36
  This seem to be suggesting that Mad Jack's timeline came to be.
• 40:42
  He got into power, he made everyone have DNA testing, but
• 40:46
  that didn't happen. It did that.
• 40:50
  It happened in the normal timeline then.
• 40:54
  Ruby changed it. Timeline.
• 40:55
  She changed it, but then she went back and changed her own
• 40:58
  timeline because then she didn't do said it was a paradox.
• 41:01
  It's a paradox. So this is the point where it
• 41:04
  did happen. So this is yes.
• 41:06
  Oh, it's very confusing, frankly.
• 41:08
  So as if I'm watching an extra Star Trek Lloyd right now.
• 41:11
  Russell does this with prime ministers because with Harriet
• 41:14
  Jones in the first Harriet Jones story, the doctors there saying,
• 41:18
  yeah, great, one of the greatest prime ministers had two terms,
• 41:22
  did amazing things, and by the Christmas Invasion, he's taken
• 41:26
  her down before she's done any of that and changed the
• 41:29
  timeline. Yeah.
• 41:31
  But see, when you said earlier this doesn't ruin 73 yards,
• 41:34
  well, it muddies it a bit because I'm just really confused
• 41:37
  as to whether what happened is 73 yards happened or whether
• 41:41
  this happened because what's happening?
• 41:44
  Where am I? He's in 73 yards.
• 41:47
  Ruby changes the future, but then goes back and changes her
• 41:49
  own past so that that never happens.
• 41:53
  That's why we had the pyramids of Miles seen reprised, doesn't
• 41:58
  it? So that we could see that time
• 42:01
  can be changed and everything is in flux and how your actions
• 42:04
  affect it. I've got to be honest guys, I'm
• 42:07
  none the wise, but perhaps we should move on.
• 42:09
  And, you know, this is this, OK, This is Ruby's story, I think
• 42:20
  doesn't actually make much sense either.
• 42:24
  And the fact that at any point they could have gone to the
• 42:30
  future and found the answer to this.
• 42:34
  Yeah, of course I could. And the really, the really
• 42:38
  annoying bit is that the fact that they could have gone to
• 42:41
  unit who can solve the question in two seconds at the end and
• 42:47
  say, Oh yeah, here's your mother, here's where she lives.
• 42:50
  Well, didn't they try doing that in The Legend of Ruby Sunday?
• 42:54
  He pulled her up on the screen and said, right, well, we've
• 42:55
  been trying to look for her, but we can't find her anywhere.
• 42:59
  What is this whole thing about the perception of her?
• 43:03
  I don't understand. Him.
• 43:05
  I don't understand how how the fact that we think it's a big
• 43:08
  mystery means that it's such a powerful secret now that a God
• 43:14
  can't figure it out. I don't get it.
• 43:17
  We'll come to that, but at the end, let's concentrate on stop
• 43:20
  telling. Me, we'll come back to things.
• 43:21
  We'll have no time. We'll get to the end.
• 43:25
  We've got loads of time because what's happening?
• 43:28
  I love this scene as well. I love, I just love the the sort
• 43:32
  of washed out visual of this, the just aesthetic, the color
• 43:35
  scheme of it. Reminded me of The Big Bang a
• 43:37
  little bit actually. Yeah, this sort of yellows.
• 43:40
  And just the sort of room and I love the Doctor just kind of
• 43:45
  almost sneaking down in the color of what I was here.
• 43:48
  I was here for the when I overthrew him and.
• 43:52
  And he knows now that Mel is. Oh yeah, he knows now.
• 43:55
  As soon as he touched, I was there.
• 43:56
  That was clear. I was there.
• 43:58
  But. Oh, I was surprised.
• 44:00
  I I didn't think he knew. No, I, yeah, I, I'm always, I
• 44:05
  twist some rubbish is. That pause it caused?
• 44:09
  Me awesome. This last time I was not I'm
• 44:12
  I've never spot these things. Why has he got on his thumbnail?
• 44:17
  You know the crosses that you put on a prison wall?
• 44:20
  Because he's cool. Oh, of course.
• 44:23
  Probably, of course. Probably mean Kaylan, Captain
• 44:25
  Sam. He's really sexy as well.
• 44:27
  You heard a bit earlier where the woman kept saying to him,
• 44:30
  oh, you have got such a nice face.
• 44:32
  I kept thinking, yes, you do, you do.
• 44:34
  Rock a white T-shirt Can't. I mean the camera.
• 44:37
  The camera just loves him, doesn't it?
• 44:39
  Yes. OK, so here we go now trying to
• 44:44
  figure out the DNA match. Who could this all conquering?
• 44:48
  What did we say? Sorry.
• 44:50
  It's going to be Ramana. It's going to be Susan.
• 44:52
  It's. You miss his blood.
• 44:57
  Oh, dear. I I want to know if it why,
• 45:00
  obviously we'll get there. I'll know.
• 45:01
  I'll say it for you, Fraser. I want to know if you guys are
• 45:03
  going to be disappointed or not with the the rationale that
• 45:06
  Russell gave as to why he wanted to make it an ordinary person.
• 45:12
  You just. Yeah, because he's just copying
• 45:15
  off The Last Jedi. Well, yeah, but at least he's
• 45:19
  sticking to it. Not like Rise of the Skywalker.
• 45:22
  Well, he can't stick to it because Rise of the Skywalker
• 45:26
  was JJ Abrams coming back. There's nothing to say that if
• 45:30
  he was, because he's making the next series, even if someone
• 45:32
  comes in for Series C, there's nothing to say I will actually.
• 45:36
  I'm going to wreck on that. And.
• 45:38
  Why is the snow coming every time they're looking at like
• 45:42
  investigating her mother? We'll come to that.
• 45:48
  You're like Peter Davidson in Timefly because you have no
• 45:57
  answers. That's why don't.
• 45:58
  Look at her, look at her. Oh my God.
• 46:01
  She looks so ghoulish. Yeah, in fact, she played it.
• 46:05
  Let's see the way she turned her head there.
• 46:07
  Yeah. I beg your pardon?
• 46:09
  So. Good.
• 46:10
  The thing about Bonnie Langfordish has been doing that
• 46:12
  since they've gone out the TARDIS, since she was in the
• 46:14
  TARDIS, since she dies in the Tardar, she has been doing that
• 46:17
  sort of neck twitchy. The other thing about Body
• 46:20
  Langford is she has not stopped working since she left Doctor
• 46:22
  Who and she's a fucking brilliant actress.
• 46:25
  But she didn't stop working before Doctor Who.
• 46:27
  She was a brilliant actress. Doctor Who didn't hold her back.
• 46:30
  No. Remember that bit in Downton
• 46:32
  about a man? Yes, she's dead.
• 46:36
  She's wonderful. The.
• 46:36
  Finest Doctor Who moment, that is.
• 46:38
  Oh, I love that bit too. Yeah, poor Susan Twist.
• 46:42
  Now she's not getting too much to do in this episode, is she?
• 46:45
  Not until the end, anyway. When she makes the tea, she's.
• 46:48
  Still there? Yeah.
• 46:51
  So Sutek puts a Susan twist everywhere the TARDIS lands.
• 46:59
  Ever. Yep.
• 47:00
  So why have we been seeing those Susan twist on all these planets
• 47:03
  then? Oh my God.
• 47:05
  Wait, we can guess who she is on all of those adventures?
• 47:08
  Who was the Susan twist on Terror Alpha?
• 47:14
  Not quite the very top, I hope. It's like the hard, the hardest
• 47:23
  twist, isn't it? It just doesn't quite.
• 47:25
  Get it? It's, it's, it's the, it's the
• 47:28
  problem with doing something where you're saying, oh, yeah,
• 47:31
  this, this person's been all throughout the doctor's
• 47:33
  timeline. He's like, OK, where it's Susie
• 47:36
  McClure. It's Clara, Yeah.
• 47:38
  What it needed to be? Was why?
• 47:40
  Why has something that I never noticed that until?
• 47:44
  Yeah, it needs to be something that makes sense within this
• 47:47
  season of adventures and this season of.
• 47:49
  Avengers, which it. Does if Sue Tech had just been
• 47:52
  on the tires with this season of Adventures, if something had
• 47:54
  happened, like you said in those 60th specials, that meant that
• 47:58
  Susan Twist started appearing everywhere because that's when
• 48:00
  we started seeing them. That would be satisfying but but
• 48:03
  trying trying to make it so important to the rest of the
• 48:06
  series. And this is, and this is where
• 48:09
  it falls down is that that doesn't work.
• 48:13
  That doesn't work. And I think that is why I came
• 48:17
  came away from this thinking I don't, I don't buy this episode
• 48:22
  because I don't buy those twists.
• 48:25
  And if you don't buy into what he's doing, then you're not
• 48:28
  going to get it. And we're going to know you came
• 48:30
  away from the time as children with the same.
• 48:33
  Problem. I've never decided that was
• 48:35
  brilliant. Now that it's not the current
• 48:38
  episode, it's taken years, but I really like that.
• 48:42
  But it's true, you've got to buy into the central thing.
• 48:48
  I just, I just don't understand why the new series is just so
• 48:50
  insistent on putting a new slant on the classic series on.
• 48:55
  Every. Time.
• 48:56
  Yeah, leave it alone and do your own thing.
• 49:00
  Yeah, it's like we said when we were doing the legend of Ruby
• 49:03
  Sunday. There is no reason other than
• 49:06
  fan service for this to be suited whatsoever.
• 49:09
  It doesn't need to be suited, it would.
• 49:11
  May well work better without. When it does do its own thing,
• 49:15
  it does the devil's cord and 73 yards.
• 49:18
  Bubble. And it's brilliant.
• 49:20
  Yeah, and it's just that we don't need the fan service.
• 49:27
  OK, now I know I'm I'm wondering if you're going to call this a
• 49:30
  Deus Ex Mackinac with the the rope and the gloves, because
• 49:34
  that has kind of been set up since church on Ruby Rd.
• 49:39
  Yeah, that's what. This is a literal Deus and a
• 49:43
  literal X Magna I know. So can someone can someone
• 49:48
  explain to me how death plus death?
• 49:52
  Because even in the cinema I just groaned loudly and and I
• 49:57
  could see the people around me just smiling at me saying
• 50:00
  that's. I'll do the equation for you.
• 50:03
  Sigh. If you'd like Skull and
• 50:05
  crossbones plus skull and crossbones equals babyface.
• 50:10
  But that's still that still doesn't actually work.
• 50:13
  No, I know if you kill death, you bring life.
• 50:17
  OK, fair enough. But.
• 50:18
  How does? Yeah, why wasn't it what pop
• 50:21
  into life in that? How does dragging Suitek through
• 50:24
  the time vortex bring everyone back to life?
• 50:29
  I have absolutely no clue. It's crap.
• 50:31
  Absolute crap. Right, but I do.
• 50:34
  Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to play Golden Bollocks.
• 50:39
  Well, I do think it's a fantastic.
• 50:42
  It's all right, the flinx is OK. No, Lloyd said that the only
• 50:46
  moment anyone said anything during this episode was when the
• 50:49
  Flinx had his head knocked off and they all went woo.
• 50:54
  Nick Cricks is dead, Yeah. Woo a snarf.
• 50:59
  I know, Snarf, Snarf. I do think though, because this
• 51:04
  is the first time ever that a visual effect has had no
• 51:08
  practical parts of it whatsoever in Doctor Who, and he's stunning
• 51:13
  the way he claws at that vortex and.
• 51:16
  That's the. Great effect.
• 51:18
  The depth to the TARDIS behind the Doctor when he's screaming
• 51:21
  out of it. It all looks amazing.
• 51:24
  It's just bobbins. It looks amazing.
• 51:27
  Bollocks though, isn't it? It's crap, yeah.
• 51:29
  Basically and how do you know what like this whole, you know,
• 51:32
  oh, grabbing each other and holding hands and they're so
• 51:34
  happy. Did the.
• 51:35
  Sunshine. It does remind me of that bit at
• 51:38
  the end of End of Time, you know, when the the planet
• 51:41
  vanishes and they're all like, what?
• 51:43
  Which is also, I know. But look, I can hear, I can hear
• 51:49
  the birds singing again, like my.
• 51:51
  Father, get your hands off him. Kate Stewart.
• 51:55
  He is gay and he's mine. No, I'm pleased, honestly.
• 52:02
  Maybe he knocked some sense into her.
• 52:04
  OK, sorry. Did I just say that out?
• 52:07
  Yes, yes, Fraser. So Rose looks into the heart of
• 52:14
  the TARDIS and turns into Jesus. Golden or bollocks?
• 52:20
  Oh, that's fine. I love it.
• 52:22
  Because that was set up in Boomtown, and that's absolutely
• 52:25
  fine. You've got.
• 52:26
  Yeah, I'm having. I have no.
• 52:29
  Yes, I think, I think, I don't think that's, that's bollocks,
• 52:32
  That's happiness. So everything that we want to
• 52:40
  disappear is covered in magic Pixie dust.
• 52:42
  That means when you open a door, it all gets sucked into the
• 52:45
  vortex. Golden or bollocks?
• 52:51
  I'm on the fence with that one because those special effects
• 52:54
  for the Daleks zooming in towards the tower are terrible.
• 52:57
  So yeah, I'm not too sure about that one.
• 53:00
  Right, so the Doctor turns into Jesus because everyone says his
• 53:07
  name at the same time and then he can use his magic Jesus
• 53:11
  powers to reset the universe. Golden or bollocks?
• 53:16
  I mean it is bollocks but I love the scene because it's like all
• 53:18
  of us going doctor and it's Martha's hero moment so you know
• 53:24
  again if he got the emotion right so I can forgive it.
• 53:29
  Donna gets zapped with some electricity that makes 1/2 Time
• 53:33
  Lord and the Daleks put the TARDIS right next to some
• 53:37
  controls that she needs to save the day.
• 53:40
  Golden or bollocks? Best scene ever.
• 53:43
  It's. Very funny, so I will give it a
• 53:46
  pause because it's. I mean it is bollocks bias.
• 53:49
  Hilarious. And the Doctor saves the day
• 53:53
  purely and simply by shooting a computer the golden or Bollocks,
• 53:57
  bollocks. Yeah, bollocks.
• 54:01
  The Doctor ties a dog lead round suitek.
• 54:05
  Excuse me, don't you skip all over Steven Moffett's shitty end
• 54:09
  of season episodes. No, because we're only talking
• 54:11
  about. Amy Pond wheels the Doctor back
• 54:14
  to life. Fucking bullshit.
• 54:17
  Golden bullshit. Golden bullshit.
• 54:24
  I can't even remember the end of River Song.
• 54:26
  Oh, the Tessa Lexa bullshit. What's the end of the next
• 54:30
  season? The Whisperman bullshit.
• 54:33
  The doctor puts a dog lead round scooby-doo suit next neck, drags
• 54:38
  him through the time vortex, brings everyone back to life,
• 54:41
  then shuts the door and ends up killing him.
• 54:46
  Bollocks. I mean, it's a great image of
• 54:50
  them putting the lead on him and taking it for a walk.
• 54:53
  That has a certain appeal, but. They do, he does have a, they do
• 54:58
  have a habit of doing this, don't they?
• 54:59
  What do we do? We flush spiders down a plug
• 55:02
  hole. So we're literally going to do
• 55:03
  it in Doctor Who. You squash spiders.
• 55:05
  So we're literally going to do it in Doctor Who, put dogs on a
• 55:08
  lead. So we're literally going to do
• 55:10
  it in Doctor. And I think it's supposed to, I
• 55:11
  think the idea is it's supposed to be fun for kids.
• 55:15
  But I think even a a smart 5 year old will be going This is
• 55:18
  bollocks. Now can you remind me how soon
• 55:22
  I've got his magic God powers? Because he evolved.
• 55:25
  How did he evolved? By clinging onto the edge of the
• 55:28
  TARDIS like Captain Jack in Utopia.
• 55:30
  While the TARDIS was doing what? Well, flying through the vortex,
• 55:34
  of course. So how does drop in Suitek off
• 55:36
  to fly through the Vortex column?
• 55:40
  That's a good point. I don't know is there a line I?
• 55:48
  Don't think there was a line. I don't think there is.
• 55:51
  No, Oh, I don't. But I know we're being a bit
• 55:54
  mean, but I did like this scene because I like the new unit set
• 55:57
  up, you know, with all these characters.
• 55:59
  Everyone. Anyone can join UNIT if you just
• 56:01
  happen to be in the control room when the doctor's standing
• 56:04
  there. She goes, you've got a good
• 56:06
  brain and the doctor goes, oh God, someone else is going to
• 56:10
  join UNIT. So we're at the point in the
• 56:13
  story now where if the credits rule, I think I'm going to like
• 56:17
  it a lot more. Oh, go away, you're crazy.
• 56:23
  The scene in the cafe is beautiful.
• 56:26
  Come to that. Oh, we'll, we'll come to a lot
• 56:29
  then. One way.
• 56:29
  So. Let's discuss Ruby's mum.
• 56:35
  Yes, the most ordinary woman who was in a tricky situation.
• 56:40
  How does that work? Well, I mean that does work
• 56:43
  like. Yeah, because you do.
• 56:44
  Give children away if you're in a tricky situation, you're being
• 56:47
  abused at home, whatever, and you take it to child to a safe
• 56:50
  place that works. And if you're 15 and terrified,
• 56:54
  yeah. Yeah, and a terrible sense of
• 56:56
  fashion. Yeah, 100% and.
• 56:59
  Look a bit like Lucy Miller from from Doctor Who's a Doctor
• 57:03
  Adventures. Why?
• 57:03
  Oh, I don't love that. Why that's that's that was a big
• 57:08
  fitnesses in my head. Why?
• 57:10
  Why is he not just chucked a load of Disney money at Sheridan
• 57:12
  Smith and said. Because he's Sheridan Smith.
• 57:16
  Are you mad? Couple of days of film and come
• 57:18
  and be with his mom please. It would be nothing to the
• 57:23
  casual viewer but you imagine how.
• 57:25
  Oh. No, but she died at the end of
• 57:27
  the at the end of the death anyway, so oh, sorry, she's not.
• 57:31
  Playing character, she's going to be playing Louise Miller.
• 57:36
  Louise Miller. A bit a bit like Adeoli.
• 57:42
  In Tortured. It would be such an Easter egg
• 57:46
  for you big Finnish fans, wouldn't it?
• 57:48
  Oh. Yes.
• 57:50
  Exactly so anyhow, right? So how does Ruby's mum, being an
• 57:58
  ordinary person, make it snow? Yeah, no, it doesn't, doesn't.
• 58:01
  Just very odd and the and again that the fact that it has driven
• 58:06
  Suitek mad because he doesn't know who she is.
• 58:09
  Why can't Suitek just do what they're doing right now?
• 58:12
  Do adna test. Why wasn't Why wasn't unit
• 58:15
  dating driving Suitek mad for all those years when the unit
• 58:20
  storms actually happened? Why wasn't?
• 58:22
  It was because of pyramids and Mars as well, wasn't it?
• 58:25
  Yeah, why? Why wasn't it?
• 58:27
  Did Perry die or not driving him mad?
• 58:30
  There are much bigger questions than this.
• 58:33
  Why does she point like that? Because it's got to make a very
• 58:36
  good. Sinister way of pointing at a
• 58:38
  sign to say that sign. That's the name of my child.
• 58:41
  Why? Why does she point like that?
• 58:43
  Why does she wear a full entree at her costume when she's
• 58:47
  dropping? Because it's, it's ridiculous.
• 58:52
  It's trying to make something a mystery when it's not actually
• 58:56
  realistic. Whatever, it's not a mystery.
• 58:59
  And it's not a mystery. And so you're trying to induce
• 59:02
  some kind of jeopardy and stuff into this story that isn't
• 59:09
  actually there. No 15 year old in 2004 would
• 59:13
  have dressed like that on Christmas Eve to drop a baby
• 59:16
  off. Yeah, if it just been someone in
• 59:19
  a big hoodie or a big park or whatever, A big coat, that would
• 59:23
  make more sense that no one, no one wears cloaks.
• 59:28
  But I've. Seen some cloaks on Tammy
• 59:30
  though, I'm really tempted. I do like the idea that she is.
• 59:35
  I know none of that stuff makes sense.
• 59:37
  I know that I do like the idea. I I just think it would have
• 59:41
  been, it would have been worse if it was someone amazing and I
• 59:44
  think this scene in the Cafe is the one of the best acted scenes
• 59:48
  in the whole series and it really made me well up in the
• 59:51
  cinema. Yeah, I think the issue, the
• 59:55
  issue is not the fact that Ruby's mom is someone ordinary.
• 1:00:00
  I think it's underexplained as to why that makes a difference.
• 1:00:06
  For one thing, you know, it needs more dialogue.
• 1:00:08
  It needs more lines. I mean, for Christ's sake, his
• 1:00:10
  best mate has given him the perfect line in Christmas Carol,
• 1:00:13
  hasn't he? You know, all those worlds were
• 1:00:16
  being a Ruby, all those planets that was, you know, come back to
• 1:00:19
  life and all the people I visited on all of those planets.
• 1:00:22
  In all of my travelling I have never met someone who isn't
• 1:00:25
  important exactly. Riff on that, knock yourself
• 1:00:29
  out. I think the big issue for me
• 1:00:32
  isn't so much the fact that she's ordinary, it's the fact
• 1:00:36
  that for the seven weeks beforehand we have been told the
• 1:00:39
  exact opposite. Yeah.
• 1:00:41
  And that's what annoys me about it is because I feel I've been
• 1:00:45
  took for him as a moke. And I think that's everybody's
• 1:00:48
  proper. And I think that's where Luke
• 1:00:49
  Malloy is coming from. When Luke Malloy says, you know,
• 1:00:52
  this episode tarnishes the whole series is because you go back
• 1:00:55
  now when you watch Devil's Court and you have that that scene
• 1:00:58
  where the cowl of the bell starts playing and Maestro is
• 1:01:00
  trying to, you know, suck the music out the Ruby and she can't
• 1:01:03
  because. Where she goes, she's got a song
• 1:01:07
  in her heart. How was he there?
• 1:01:08
  She is wrong. Yeah, she's not wrong, right?
• 1:01:12
  She's perfectly normal. Yeah, you know, it's the all the
• 1:01:16
  snow stuff throughout. You know, you now look at this
• 1:01:18
  and go now that's just. Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  You know, so that that's that's how it tarnishes the whole
• 1:01:23
  series is because and it's it's it's a move, it's a very
• 1:01:30
  deliberate move, I think by Rusty to get fans talking.
• 1:01:36
  Yeah, no ease the the the comparison to make is with the
• 1:01:40
  whole sort of like Susan Trier taught us and Susan stuff, which
• 1:01:45
  we came to discuss in the first episode where that was really
• 1:01:48
  clever where he's kind of like known fine.
• 1:01:51
  Well that if I stick S triad in, people are going to come up with
• 1:01:53
  TARDIS. If I put the new the word Susan
• 1:01:55
  in, people are going to, you know, speculate and come to
• 1:02:00
  conclusions and whatnot. And I think that's fine.
• 1:02:02
  That's fine. Drop your little bread crumbs
• 1:02:04
  in. There he puts in when Susan
• 1:02:06
  Technologies. Yeah, Cyndi Lauper's going to
• 1:02:08
  go. Oh, so tech.
• 1:02:10
  When you have deliberately led me the seven weeks to think that
• 1:02:15
  this is going to be the most earth chatter in Revelation, and
• 1:02:19
  it's not, that's when I feel cheated.
• 1:02:21
  No. And, and it's a shame because
• 1:02:26
  it's actually a really lovely story.
• 1:02:29
  It's a beautiful. And it's beautifully paid and
• 1:02:31
  this scene is beautifully played.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah, but. And so is the one in the flat
• 1:02:35
  when they're all together. Yeah, but my problem with this
• 1:02:39
  is this is played exactly like an end of series companion
• 1:02:46
  leaving, which is what it is. And you've got Murray Gold going
• 1:02:50
  all at it. And I didn't feel anything about
• 1:02:54
  that at all because because a we know she's coming back and why
• 1:03:00
  why play it like this when you could just play it like the
• 1:03:03
  Doctor saying, OK, well that's fine, you go and have Christmas.
• 1:03:06
  I'll pop back in the new year. I'll, I'll just do that now.
• 1:03:10
  It's not just that. It's like phrase it in Legends
• 1:03:12
  of Ruby Sunday. We've only had like 8 weeks with
• 1:03:14
  them. Yeah, we haven't heard it at
• 1:03:15
  this moment. It's they're trying to make it
• 1:03:19
  so overblown and a big end like Rose going or or Martha walking
• 1:03:27
  out of the TARDIS or whatever and it doesn't land in any way
• 1:03:31
  because. The two beats I did like, the
• 1:03:35
  two beats I did like was him saying she had 7000 days to come
• 1:03:39
  and find you leave her be because he knows if she goes in
• 1:03:42
  there she's off. And then the second beat I liked
• 1:03:46
  was him here saying go and be with your mum.
• 1:03:50
  Like, yeah. That's lovely.
• 1:03:51
  Isn't for you anymore. Yeah, but it's just I think it's
• 1:03:55
  the way of the way they're they're telling it and the way
• 1:04:02
  they're. I think actually the most
• 1:04:04
  egregious thing of it all is Murray Gold doing his great big
• 1:04:09
  choirs and noise over this, when actually it could be a very
• 1:04:14
  small and touching scene. And it doesn't have to be this
• 1:04:17
  overflow because she's coming back.
• 1:04:22
  So it feels false. And I think that's the that's my
• 1:04:25
  big problem with this whole episode is so much of it doesn't
• 1:04:29
  doesn't feel right. It doesn't I.
• 1:04:31
  Think the emotions feel real? Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Because of they're just so good at playing them and.
• 1:04:37
  Again, this, that line where he says I've talked about my family
• 1:04:40
  in a way I happened for years because of you.
• 1:04:43
  That's beautiful. But it's all drowned out by
• 1:04:47
  Murray Gold at his at his most bombastic and worse.
• 1:04:51
  And that ruins the scene for me. What I would like next year is
• 1:04:56
  to just have a run of some stand alone fun stories.
• 1:05:00
  But I know that's not what we're going to get because he's
• 1:05:02
  already said we're the, you know, creating a sense of
• 1:05:06
  suspense and anticipation and mystery and surprise.
• 1:05:10
  That's all what TV is now because that's the only way you
• 1:05:13
  get bums on scenes. So I know it's going to be the
• 1:05:15
  same sort of thing, but it's when they sort of pushed away
• 1:05:17
  from all of that this year that the season weren't the best.
• 1:05:20
  Yeah, exactly. I think for me, the the real
• 1:05:24
  reason it doesn't land is is is, you know what I talked about the
• 1:05:26
  last time, you know, the series is hasn't been long enough for
• 1:05:30
  us to have one of those episodes where, you know, we, we just
• 1:05:35
  get. Always crying against God's
• 1:05:37
  sake. Stop crying.
• 1:05:38
  No, no, you're absolutely right, Fraser.
• 1:05:40
  You know, because again, we haven't had time to to invest
• 1:05:46
  the emotions with this. It doesn't.
• 1:05:49
  It falls flat. Yeah, it's, and you know how
• 1:05:52
  brilliant they are, the doctor saying I've, I've never thought
• 1:05:55
  about my family, you know, in this way before.
• 1:05:58
  It's like when when when have you actually done this?
• 1:06:00
  Because I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it in.
• 1:06:02
  Two with the side men. Yeah, in the seven in what I
• 1:06:06
  haven't seen shoot you do this because he hasn't had the
• 1:06:08
  episode in which to do it. I, I switched into it.
• 1:06:11
  I do love that scene of the four of them there, four amazing
• 1:06:15
  women coming together. I I have issues with this I'm
• 1:06:18
  afraid. Why?
• 1:06:20
  I think it's two fairy tale, I think.
• 1:06:23
  Well, you don't think it would play out that way?
• 1:06:25
  I think in some circumstances it will play out that way.
• 1:06:29
  And I think a lot of the time, you know, people who have been
• 1:06:34
  adopted or abandoned who and go and find their biological
• 1:06:38
  parents, that's not how it's going to go for them.
• 1:06:40
  And it feels very I. Know, but it's the end of the
• 1:06:42
  season. We're not going to end the
• 1:06:43
  season on. And here we are, and the season
• 1:06:46
  is ending with Romana on the. Movie time.
• 1:06:50
  In the snow, like in the REAP bus operation.
• 1:06:54
  Yes, now someone stunned with these photographs of Missus
• 1:06:58
  Flood wearing clothes just like lots of different companions,
• 1:07:01
  and I do see it, yeah. Who will we tell?
• 1:07:05
  Well, I've got to make a confession, guys.
• 1:07:08
  But Fraser, you have actually achieved something that you said
• 1:07:10
  you never wanted to do because I really enjoyed watching this
• 1:07:13
  this morning and I don't think I like this episode very much at
• 1:07:16
  all after talking about it with you. 2.
• 1:07:18
  Thank you very much for that. Well sorry, but I have come away
• 1:07:24
  this week thinking I don't actually like this episode very
• 1:07:27
  much at all. I think it's, I think it's fine.
• 1:07:31
  I just I think but. Yeah, I think that's it.
• 1:07:33
  It's fine. I think there is.
• 1:07:36
  It's like we said, there's a, there's some big issues in this
• 1:07:39
  for me, obviously not the same issues as you guys, but there's
• 1:07:43
  some big issues for me. But I can 100% see where Simon's
• 1:07:46
  coming from and you know, this new, you know, it's not landing,
• 1:07:49
  It's not landing. And I feel it's too constructed.
• 1:07:53
  Yes, it's. When you can see the working out
• 1:07:57
  and how and the process of putting it together, it feels
• 1:08:00
  difficult to. It feels contrived.
• 1:08:03
  It feels like someone has ChatGPT this, you know they've
• 1:08:08
  said it's a RTD finale So what you need is this XYZ to put that
• 1:08:15
  in and it's chucked out the story.
• 1:08:17
  Do you? Know what it feels like?
• 1:08:18
  To me, it feels like Series 6 of all that opening episode with
• 1:08:23
  all of those mysteries promising huge things ahead and a big arc
• 1:08:28
  and the Doctor dying and all of that, and the wedding of River
• 1:08:31
  Song being a total damp squid, not delivering on any of it.
• 1:08:34
  It's kind of that again, isn't it?
• 1:08:38
  Maybe you shouldn't. Maybe.
• 1:08:40
  You shouldn't promise. Don't make too many promises.
• 1:08:44
  Maybe not. Well, this is what I said to
• 1:08:46
  them last time. You know, he's, he's trucked too
• 1:08:48
  much in the air. He's he's, he's put too much in
• 1:08:50
  there with, you know, Susan Twist and Mrs. Flood and too
• 1:08:54
  many, you know, the snow. It's too many mysteries for him
• 1:08:56
  to resolve. And what's the word I'm looking
• 1:09:02
  for? Resolve.
• 1:09:03
  Satisfactorily. Satisfactory.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah, Yeah. Do you know what surprises me?
• 1:09:07
  And it's a name nobody's really mentioned when talking about the
• 1:09:11
  first series of Rusty Davis. And that's Scott Hancock, who
• 1:09:14
  script edited this season, has skipped over from Big Finish to
• 1:09:19
  do it now. I think he was an amazing, an
• 1:09:22
  amazing contributor to Big Finish.
• 1:09:24
  And most of the best work that they've done had Scott Hancock's
• 1:09:29
  grubby, grubby fingertips all over it.
• 1:09:33
  And actually, I expect better than this of him as well,
• 1:09:38
  because he knew he he knows how to end things well in those
• 1:09:42
  audio drops. But is he is he strong enough to
• 1:09:44
  say to Russell T Davis, do you know what?
• 1:09:47
  This this isn't great. Is anyone?
• 1:09:52
  I mean, he's. I think Judy Gardner and Phil
• 1:09:55
  Collinson are. But that's about it and.
• 1:10:00
  Is this the problem? You know, it's this.
• 1:10:04
  It's the same. It's the same shade.
• 1:10:06
  I throw it for him off it wasn't it.
• 1:10:07
  Was he's so powerful within the show that nobody's going to go.
• 1:10:10
  The moon's on here. Come on, mate, don't, don't run
• 1:10:13
  that episode. That's really terrible.
• 1:10:15
  No, it'll be fine. No, it's an idea I had.
• 1:10:17
  We'll put it on the screen and then and it's like my boyfriend
• 1:10:20
  Jason says. Everybody.
• 1:10:22
  Needs a challenge and you've got to have a challenge in your life
• 1:10:25
  otherwise you get away with bollocks and you can't.
• 1:10:29
  You can't do it. I don't quite know how we're
• 1:10:33
  going to do this, but we do. Need to find free fabulous
• 1:10:37
  things each from Empire of Death.
• 1:10:42
  Has this been all? And legend of Ruby Sunday,
• 1:10:45
  because Oh yes. Because we didn't do those.
• 1:10:49
  We didn't do that before, Yes, because I still.
• 1:10:51
  Think. All.
• 1:10:52
  We went that's right there for their.
• 1:10:53
  Predictions which were. Up to. 90% incorrect, so wrong.
• 1:10:58
  I'd say 99% Fraser, I wonder. Someone got got a suspicious
• 1:11:03
  amount. Right.
• 1:11:03
  But I can't remember who it was. So sorry, but it was it was was
• 1:11:07
  it Fraser's son door? Not this.
• 1:11:11
  Time, I think it was someone who was like.
• 1:11:14
  It you know suit like will be. Delete the defeated.
• 1:11:17
  It will be a big deal. There will be big emotions like
• 1:11:20
  that was you. I said.
• 1:11:24
  I said. I said cherry sundae was.
• 1:11:28
  Going to kick the door down. I think people would have
• 1:11:35
  preferred that. Ending though honestly followed
• 1:11:38
  Hot on the Heels by. The the 14th Doctor.
• 1:11:42
  Imagine all the great women. Mrs. Flood Cherry.
• 1:11:45
  Sundae, Kate Stewart all come in together and they kicked ass at
• 1:11:49
  the end and that was how it ended.
• 1:11:51
  Oh well. And Rose would have been that
• 1:11:53
  well, of course. She's she's.
• 1:11:56
  Just waiting to come back somewhere.
• 1:11:59
  Well, come on, let's do our things.
• 1:12:01
  Let's do our things. Then let's start with.
• 1:12:04
  Sight and then Fraser. And I'll go last, right?
• 1:12:07
  OK, OK, I am going. To go for Bonnie Langford,
• 1:12:13
  because you know. Because.
• 1:12:18
  A. It's the most obvious thing, but
• 1:12:21
  what an absolute bloody joy it is to have Bonnie Langford in
• 1:12:26
  Doctor Who and everyone loving her in the way that she wasn't
• 1:12:31
  loved in 1986 and 1987 and should have been, and that
• 1:12:36
  they've given her a character and she's grasping it.
• 1:12:39
  And she is brilliant. And she's the only person, as we
• 1:12:42
  said when we did The Legend of Ruby Sunday, the only person who
• 1:12:47
  tells the Doctor off. And she did that right from the
• 1:12:50
  start, and she's still doing the lift now.
• 1:12:53
  Sigh. Yeah.
• 1:12:55
  What did she say to him? Stop whinging.
• 1:12:57
  Stop. Grizzling, yeah.
• 1:13:00
  Exactly. Stop grizzling.
• 1:13:03
  But also, you know, she's there for the.
• 1:13:05
  Emotional resonance of this story.
• 1:13:07
  And she's the one Doctor Who companion from the past who
• 1:13:11
  survives and that's brilliant. And just the image of her and,
• 1:13:15
  and Ruby blanking the Doctor in the TARDIS, it's just, it seems
• 1:13:21
  so unlikely to ever happen that it's brilliant that it did.
• 1:13:25
  And I'm so glad she's here and I'm so glad she'll be back for
• 1:13:28
  more, Russell said in the commentary for.
• 1:13:31
  This that originally Mel was supposed to die with everybody
• 1:13:35
  else and he couldn't do it. I just couldn't type out the
• 1:13:39
  words. Male crumbled to dust for at
• 1:13:44
  least another 20 pages. That's right.
• 1:13:45
  Yeah. Well, I'll turn you into a.
• 1:13:47
  Zombie first, that's she was so good as the zombie as well.
• 1:13:51
  You know, and yeah, so I know she's back next year.
• 1:13:55
  Let's have some better stories for.
• 1:13:56
  Her though, right razor? Well, there's.
• 1:14:04
  Always A twist at the end. There's always A twist at the
• 1:14:08
  end. Susan Twist You know what a what
• 1:14:15
  a. What?
• 1:14:16
  A season. She's had basically, you know,
• 1:14:19
  she's went from like bit part and was it Cross knows Luke's
• 1:14:22
  side, wasn't it? And to, you know, she's now
• 1:14:26
  going to be the the darling of the convention circuit.
• 1:14:29
  But she already is Fraser. Yeah, she's the new.
• 1:14:32
  Katie Manning, apparently my mate went, he said.
• 1:14:34
  She's given everyone 10 minutes and they're going hurry up.
• 1:14:37
  She's got no, they've paid good money to see me.
• 1:14:40
  Good on it. So yeah.
• 1:14:42
  Good old Susan Twist, who's? I hope to see her again, I
• 1:14:45
  really do. I hope, you know, she comes back
• 1:14:47
  as you know, Susan Dryad and you know, gets to gets to do a
• 1:14:53
  little bit more other than make the tea because, you know, she's
• 1:14:56
  she's had to deal with different world every every week and
• 1:14:59
  essentially like an extra world isn't it's just like a walk on
• 1:15:02
  part and watchers had to build that up to watchers on there and
• 1:15:07
  Susan Triad in legend. Ruby Sunday was a really good
• 1:15:09
  turn. Everyone remembers the matebot
• 1:15:11
  and then have played like the harbinger version, the you know,
• 1:15:17
  the suitex Angel of death, the Susan Scarman rule base issues
• 1:15:22
  just done that as well. So a big shout out to Susan
• 1:15:25
  twist. Did you say Mabel?
• 1:15:27
  Mabel that? Dance is just the best thing in
• 1:15:30
  this. Whole tube.
• 1:15:33
  Then for my first one, can I say, because I think the
• 1:15:36
  reaction to the cliffhanger in the middle of the story was the
• 1:15:40
  polar opposite of the reaction that we got in the cinemas when
• 1:15:44
  we all went. There was a huge sense of
• 1:15:46
  excitement about like everyone going, what the hell, Is he
• 1:15:49
  really bringing Sue Tech back? And it was just brilliantly
• 1:15:53
  staged. Russell can do a penultimate
• 1:15:55
  cliffhanger pretty much unlike anyone else.
• 1:15:58
  And it was a really exciting and scary.
• 1:16:02
  The bit where she turns around and her face is zombified all of
• 1:16:04
  a sudden is really scary. So I think that is a brilliant
• 1:16:08
  cliffhanger to go with all of his others in the penultimate
• 1:16:11
  episodes. I'm going.
• 1:16:13
  To go for the. Time window effects, because
• 1:16:19
  making that that brilliant effect of when they're walking
• 1:16:25
  through the VHS recording and it's all slightly low
• 1:16:28
  resolution. I think that's one of the best
• 1:16:31
  effects we've had this year. And the money is on the screen
• 1:16:34
  and it looks amazing and it's creepy and weird and not quite
• 1:16:38
  right and all the better for it. And I think that was that was
• 1:16:43
  sort of one of the highlights of of this two parter for me.
• 1:16:47
  So those scenes in now were really creepy and really well
• 1:16:51
  done and a real sense of atmosphere.
• 1:16:53
  And that's where Murray Gold's work actually worked for me as
• 1:16:57
  well, because he he worked with the atmosphere and accentuated
• 1:17:02
  it rather than them built it up into something that it wasn't.
• 1:17:05
  So yeah, those were really great scenes.
• 1:17:12
  I'm just going to go for SU Tech himself.
• 1:17:15
  But this I think, you know, we spent a lot of time slagging the
• 1:17:20
  story off. We're due in Suitex moments when
• 1:17:23
  he had big scenes. You know, the scene where, you
• 1:17:25
  know, you confront the doctor conference in the time window
• 1:17:30
  was a really good one. I thought it was it was good to
• 1:17:34
  have suite deck back. You know, it was good to think,
• 1:17:37
  you know, we are, you know, dipping into the the back story
• 1:17:41
  and we're bringing a really strong character back, you know,
• 1:17:45
  to get Gabriel Wolf back as well.
• 1:17:47
  You know, what to do when he's in he's now winning to get him
• 1:17:49
  back to do. The voice of Sue Tech was
• 1:17:53
  magnificent. The the the realization of Sue
• 1:17:56
  tech is that sort of big clue, you know, dog with the that
• 1:18:02
  cloak sort of squatting over the TARDIS trying to hatch it like
• 1:18:05
  an egg. And you know, just I love that
• 1:18:10
  visual as well, even the sort of and Suitex scooby-doo Dragon
• 1:18:15
  through the the vortex, you know, that was a great visual.
• 1:18:19
  And so, yeah, I think Suitex, you know, been more of success,
• 1:18:25
  success than not coming back this time.
• 1:18:28
  Did you notice as well the bit where?
• 1:18:30
  He makes the doctor go down to the floor is and it's all green
• 1:18:35
  light like in pyramids and miles.
• 1:18:37
  I thought that was a nice touch. My next choice is the wonderful
• 1:18:44
  sort of five minute scene in Empire of Death between the
• 1:18:46
  Doctor and the lady on the planet.
• 1:18:49
  I think that is that as a little mini scene all of its own that
• 1:18:54
  we've said a lot of things that Russell got wrong in that
• 1:18:57
  episode. That is what Russell gets right.
• 1:19:00
  That is that is what Bubble was filled with.
• 1:19:02
  That's what 73 yards was filled with.
• 1:19:04
  The best of this season was That was Russell bringing like huge
• 1:19:07
  heart, like taking a big idea and boiling it down to something
• 1:19:12
  we can feel something about, you know, and just that just those
• 1:19:16
  lines about I think my baby died.
• 1:19:18
  It's like, yeah, it's beautifully plagued as.
• 1:19:22
  Well, it's really. Terrific and haunting.
• 1:19:25
  So yeah, I think that and I. Think the actress.
• 1:19:27
  I know she's done. She's quite big elsewhere.
• 1:19:30
  She was brilliant. For her to come in and do A1
• 1:19:32
  Singer. Really what I should be saying
• 1:19:34
  is wasting a great actress like I normally do.
• 1:19:37
  But Steven Moffat didn't write this, so I'll I'll let it
• 1:19:40
  passed. Olivia.
• 1:19:41
  Colwin OK, I'm going to actually nominate who the star of the
• 1:19:51
  season for me. I'm going to say Millie Gibson,
• 1:19:54
  who I think has not put a single foot wrong.
• 1:19:58
  I was expecting very little from her.
• 1:20:00
  I have to admit I didn't know her work.
• 1:20:03
  I've not seen her in Corrie. I wasn't won over by her
• 1:20:08
  introduction on Children in Need with Shooty and she has blown me
• 1:20:14
  away from her first scene in Ruby Row.
• 1:20:17
  The church on Ruby Road right to the end.
• 1:20:20
  She has been absolutely brilliant and she has been
• 1:20:22
  brilliant through this episode as well.
• 1:20:25
  And as Joe said, the scene in the cafe at the end is
• 1:20:30
  beautifully played and very, very real.
• 1:20:33
  However it lands for you, she plays it absolutely brilliantly
• 1:20:39
  and she has not made a misstep the whole of this season.
• 1:20:44
  And I've been, I'm very, very glad she's coming back next year
• 1:20:47
  because fans were horrible about her when she didn't deserve it
• 1:20:53
  and saying oh, she's been sacked because she's crap and before
• 1:20:58
  anyone had seen what she'd done and she has not.
• 1:21:02
  And she's 18 when she filmed 73 yards.
• 1:21:08
  She just turned 18. Isn't it that she is going to?
• 1:21:12
  Horridness of that performance she's going to have.
• 1:21:15
  I really hope she's going to. Have a phenomenal career because
• 1:21:18
  she is. She could be.
• 1:21:20
  She's another Sheridan Smith where you've got someone who's
• 1:21:23
  trained in the soaps who's come up and can totally nail all of
• 1:21:28
  this. I think she's been brilliant.
• 1:21:30
  And again, she's done everything that is asked for her in this
• 1:21:34
  story and she's been really good.
• 1:21:36
  She's been emotional, she's been funny, she's been great.
• 1:21:41
  No, I will. I will 100% say.
• 1:21:43
  You know that scene in the cafe and although I don't
• 1:21:45
  particularly like, you know, the context of it and what's
• 1:21:49
  happening. I can't.
• 1:21:50
  Deny that it's exceptionally well written and it's
• 1:21:53
  exceptionally well performed. Yep.
• 1:22:01
  Liam, it's my turn then, isn't it?
• 1:22:02
  Actually, it is, right? So.
• 1:22:03
  I am going to pick the other obvious standout star of not
• 1:22:10
  just these two episodes, but again the whole season, which is
• 1:22:14
  obviously Anita Dobson. Mrs. Floyd, Mrs. Floyd, What we
• 1:22:23
  say about Mrs. Floyd. I love that because I think at
• 1:22:27
  the at the end of the last episode I'd said my prediction
• 1:22:31
  was that we would find out who Mrs. Floyd was, but not who
• 1:22:37
  Ruby's mom was, and obviously the other way.
• 1:22:38
  Around and. We've still got more of Mrs.
• 1:22:42
  Floyd to find out about, which I'm really excited about.
• 1:22:44
  I think, you know, she hasn't, you know, had that many scenes,
• 1:22:48
  but the ones that she has have been really, really powerful.
• 1:22:52
  I think, and especially these last two episodes, you know,
• 1:22:55
  that we don't like a lot of things dear that aren't going to
• 1:22:57
  happen is just a fantastic I've seen that man used again.
• 1:23:02
  And again and again. And you, you little woman, you
• 1:23:05
  know, just, she's just. Really tapped into sort of
• 1:23:09
  mystery behind. Are we going to be disappointed
• 1:23:12
  though? Quite.
• 1:23:13
  Well, we'll see. We'll see.
• 1:23:15
  You know, he's, I think obviously the problem is, is now
• 1:23:19
  because he's already banking Series B, there's the the
• 1:23:24
  possibility that any sort of feedback that you might have
• 1:23:27
  took from Series A is too late because it's already in the
• 1:23:31
  Canyon. You know, he's not the might be
• 1:23:33
  some cares though, either, like and that's kind of.
• 1:23:37
  Sad, but I think I think he should to be honest, because you
• 1:23:40
  know, there's. I know it's fans, but you know,
• 1:23:42
  there's a lot of people without that feeling of coming out, that
• 1:23:45
  cinema of flatness, you know, that's you know, he should care
• 1:23:51
  about that as. As the shore runner.
• 1:23:53
  Trouble is. Trouble is, though, Dylan Reece
• 1:23:55
  said. You know I I'm.
• 1:23:56
  Not going to watch it anymore Rusty Davis stuff unless there's
• 1:23:59
  a big buzz about it. He will be back for the first
• 1:24:02
  episode of next year. Doctor Who fans do not give up.
• 1:24:06
  On Doctor Who. No, no, but you know.
• 1:24:10
  All Doctor Who funds enough to keep Doctor Who going in 2026.
• 1:24:16
  I don't just think. It's Doctor Who fans watching.
• 1:24:19
  Yeah, No, I don't. No and.
• 1:24:22
  There was a buzz around that last episode.
• 1:24:25
  People came up and talked to me at work for the first time.
• 1:24:27
  People were talking to me at work as well and I haven't.
• 1:24:30
  Had that for a decade, Yeah. And there was the, you know,
• 1:24:34
  enough of a buzz. I mean my my.
• 1:24:35
  Cinema wasn't sold out, but it was pretty packed.
• 1:24:38
  You know, it was one of three that was in the, you know, like
• 1:24:41
  a 10 minute, 15 minute drive from my house.
• 1:24:45
  So there was, you know, a good a good turn out.
• 1:24:48
  And this could been, you know, variant turnouts up and down the
• 1:24:51
  current, you know, some sort of cinemas about put two screens on
• 1:24:54
  some were just kind of half sold.
• 1:24:55
  And, you know, to think we're in a time when Doctor Who is at the
• 1:25:00
  cinema and, you know, midnight on a Friday night, people are
• 1:25:03
  turning out to watch it is really exciting.
• 1:25:08
  So you kind of think you know, how much is is what we read on
• 1:25:12
  Twitter and Facebook and in the media about the show being on
• 1:25:17
  its donors and it's up as whatever.
• 1:25:19
  So algorithm. So anyway, what you see how
• 1:25:21
  much? Is that true?
• 1:25:22
  And then you see more of it? Yeah.
• 1:25:25
  It's it's it's hard to. Hard to gauge isn't it but and
• 1:25:29
  yeah so go back. I think I'm excited to see more
• 1:25:34
  of her you know next time around and hopefully it's you know it
• 1:25:39
  will tie in no better with with what's going on.
• 1:25:42
  We'll we'll get, you know, just, you know, don't lead us down
• 1:25:47
  the. Garden path is what what I would
• 1:25:49
  like to. Say to that is, don't you know,
• 1:25:51
  promises something that you are then deliberately not going to
• 1:25:53
  deliver because that well, that was the real sting for me in
• 1:25:56
  this episode was, you know, you've told us repeatedly this
• 1:26:02
  is important. Now he's saying it's not, and
• 1:26:05
  we've got. Anita Dobson and Doctor Dobson,
• 1:26:08
  Yes, and she is also, from what I'm hearing at conventions,
• 1:26:12
  conventions, the next beautiful man as well.
• 1:26:14
  Loving. It and loving the attention.
• 1:26:17
  And giving fans everything. So yeah, yeah.
• 1:26:20
  I mean, we met her Joe, and she was awful.
• 1:26:22
  She was gorgeous. And she didn't know she was a
• 1:26:25
  star of Doctor Who at that point.
• 1:26:27
  And she was going to be loved. Well, given you have just said
• 1:26:31
  you were let down the garden. Path You might be slightly
• 1:26:33
  disappointed by my last choice, and that is surprisingly Russell
• 1:26:37
  T Davis. You see a last choice?
• 1:26:40
  Well. Look, I've got to go in a minute
• 1:26:42
  because I've been. Promised a beach walk so you
• 1:26:43
  better hurry up. No, I think people are talking
• 1:26:49
  about Doctor Who again, and not just Doctor Who fans and in the
• 1:26:54
  media and on the news and on YouTube channels and all of
• 1:27:00
  this. And Russell T Davis knows how to
• 1:27:02
  play this better than anybody else, far better than Moffett.
• 1:27:06
  Chipnall just didn't bother with half of that stuff.
• 1:27:09
  You know, Doctor Who is in the ether again, whatever the
• 1:27:12
  numbers say. I don't think he's in any
• 1:27:14
  trouble. I think he delivered 3 Stone
• 1:27:17
  Cold Classics this season. The Devil's Call, 73 yards and
• 1:27:20
  Don Bubble. That is not work coming from a
• 1:27:23
  Ryder on his last legs. If he did promise more than he
• 1:27:30
  delivered, the promise was enough to get people talking.
• 1:27:34
  And I wonder if that was the point.
• 1:27:37
  And I do think everyone will be back next year.
• 1:27:40
  And regardless of our sort of overall feeling about this
• 1:27:43
  episode, it still had great scenes in there.
• 1:27:45
  It still had wonderful moments for people to act in it.
• 1:27:48
  It still had gorgeous lines in there.
• 1:27:51
  He still gave things for the production team to titillate our
• 1:27:54
  eyeballs with. Like the guy can write really
• 1:27:58
  great television. This is not one of his best.
• 1:28:00
  I don't think his finales usually are.
• 1:28:03
  But we're really lucky to have him because any in the eyes of
• 1:28:09
  sort of the television world, this guy is the zenith.
• 1:28:13
  He's the top. He's the master of television.
• 1:28:16
  And he is creating Doctor Who for us right now.
• 1:28:19
  And we've seen stunning Doctor Who this year.
• 1:28:21
  So Russell T Davis, despite the flaws in the script, my last
• 1:28:27
  choice, I think that going back to the shop, so I'm like a dog
• 1:28:32
  with a bone with this is. The you know he has promised and
• 1:28:36
  you know he's I just. Worry that he's.
• 1:28:39
  Used up some goodwill you know that he's created this Bose and
• 1:28:41
  this Bose and then he's went ha ha that's that's your end
• 1:28:46
  product you know is are we are we in series B if.
• 1:28:51
  He tries to see, you know, if he.
• 1:28:53
  Tries having a woman thread through Series B.
• 1:28:57
  Are we then just going to be, well, yeah, I'm not getting
• 1:28:58
  invested in that because you're just going to be.
• 1:29:00
  It's just going to be shit at the end.
• 1:29:02
  You will. And he knows you will.
• 1:29:04
  He knows. Doctor Who fans will be back
• 1:29:05
  next year and he knows for everybody else, they're just
• 1:29:08
  going to watch a bit of television with some nice
• 1:29:10
  effects and go, well, what was that all about?
• 1:29:12
  But it was fun. Damon, what do you think?
• 1:29:16
  Oh well, everyone will be back. Yeah, but will will people be as
• 1:29:20
  invested? Next time I don't think fans
• 1:29:24
  will be. But I think the general public
• 1:29:29
  will be be back in their droves. And you know, from what what
• 1:29:34
  we're here. Doctor Who is still one of the
• 1:29:38
  biggest dramas on the BBC, despite the change in approach,
• 1:29:44
  the change in the way the episodes drop.
• 1:29:46
  Is it the best scoring drama? Yeah.
• 1:29:49
  I think it was the best scoring drama, and it was.
• 1:29:51
  Frequently the best of the. Day, Yeah, and the initial
• 1:29:55
  things we're hearing. From Disney are positive that
• 1:29:59
  it's doing very well across countries where Doctor Who has
• 1:30:03
  has never been shown or has not been easy to, to come by, you
• 1:30:07
  know, so I think we don't know the whole picture and we may
• 1:30:11
  never know the whole picture now that it's not just the BBC that
• 1:30:14
  it's it's outside. So I think the future's good.
• 1:30:22
  I think it's as much goodwill spent as people that were.
• 1:30:24
  Disappointed by last of the Time Lords, you know, or disappointed
• 1:30:29
  by partner, the ways I think people know who were
• 1:30:32
  disappointed. With.
• 1:30:34
  With the Chris Chipnall. Era it's nothing new what's
• 1:30:37
  happening to criticize new Doctor who pictures will start
• 1:30:41
  coming out of the next season we'll.
• 1:30:43
  Start getting the titles, we'll start hearing who the guest
• 1:30:45
  stars are, we'll start hearing the premises and we'll all be
• 1:30:48
  going, Oh my God, when's Doctor Who on, you know?
• 1:30:51
  Then we'll see a trailer. It'll be amazing and everyone
• 1:30:54
  will be excited again. Yeah, I think one of the most
• 1:30:57
  brilliant. Things I saw this week was
• 1:31:00
  someone who said what a lot of particularly younger fans wanted
• 1:31:05
  was Doctor Who, like when they were young because they started
• 1:31:10
  in the original Russell T Davis era and they didn't get it.
• 1:31:14
  And it's the same thing, that fan.
• 1:31:17
  We've talked about this extensively between the three of
• 1:31:20
  us that people expect and it's anticipointment again.
• 1:31:25
  Hello, Toby, it's the anticipointment of thinking
• 1:31:29
  you're going to get what you got in 2000 and five 2006 two
• 1:31:33
  thousand and seven 2008, you know, and not quite getting
• 1:31:39
  that. And so because it's Russell T
• 1:31:42
  Davis and he comes with this thing and when it's slightly
• 1:31:46
  flawed, we're very upset because we're we expect better of our
• 1:31:50
  heroes. And it's like, again, like we
• 1:31:54
  said on the compilation of Genesis, the Daleks that we've
• 1:31:59
  just done that. Someone actually turned around
• 1:32:02
  to Terry Nation and said, live up to your reputation.
• 1:32:05
  Don't give us what you've done before.
• 1:32:08
  Do something different. And for most of this season,
• 1:32:10
  Russell has done has done that. And so it's very disappointing
• 1:32:16
  when he comes back to that, that season finale level that we've
• 1:32:21
  seen before that doesn't quite hit because we've seen what he
• 1:32:25
  can do. But what's interesting is is
• 1:32:28
  when he's lent into RTD. One space babies and the
• 1:32:31
  two-part finale, That's when people have been most
• 1:32:34
  disappointed when he's done something completely original
• 1:32:37
  this year. Devil's Call, 73 yards dot
• 1:32:39
  Marble, People have been absolutely thrilled.
• 1:32:42
  Well, most people. So there we go.
• 1:32:45
  There is a message there. He's listening, so maybe this is
• 1:32:48
  sort of the interim between RTD one and.
• 1:32:51
  RTD two and now just do RTD two. Yeah, and you know.
• 1:32:57
  While Blue Yonder is a is a case in point that most people came
• 1:33:01
  away thinking that was the better story of the three from
• 1:33:06
  the 60th, not. Russell, though, so he.
• 1:33:08
  Was really surprised when we said.
• 1:33:09
  That he was, yeah. And not certain.
• 1:33:12
  Fans that we know, but generally that was the one that took
• 1:33:16
  people by surprise because he wasn't doing what he normally
• 1:33:19
  does. So let's have more of not doing
• 1:33:23
  what you normally do and give us some goods.
• 1:33:26
  What what I do want to ask the pair?
• 1:33:29
  Of you is because you know I'm not used to the pair of you
• 1:33:31
  making me not like Doctor Who. This is a very unfortunate
• 1:33:35
  position. And not at all what?
• 1:33:37
  This podcast was set up to do What the hell are we going to
• 1:33:42
  talk about next to cheer me up a bit.
• 1:33:45
  Well, I need to pick me for a thing.
• 1:33:48
  Which is going. To be.
• 1:33:51
  Shoot, you got one there because you know.
• 1:33:57
  Millie. Gibson has been fantastic and I
• 1:33:59
  would. Agree out of the.
• 1:34:00
  Two of them, I think Millie Gibson is probably, you know,
• 1:34:04
  the the better performer, but I think, you know, you have to,
• 1:34:08
  you think, yeah, I think Millie so much better.
• 1:34:13
  I think I think this is the. Element of surprise that Simon
• 1:34:17
  mentioned, You know, we weren't expecting many to be quite as
• 1:34:21
  good as she is, I think. And I think she, yeah, I just
• 1:34:26
  think she's a bit more. He just got more presidents.
• 1:34:31
  He's got more charisma. My eyes are drawn to him
• 1:34:35
  whenever he's on the screen, and it ain't just because he's
• 1:34:37
  pretty. Yeah, getting the love in, I
• 1:34:39
  think. He's not that, but I think you
• 1:34:41
  know he's. He's had those moments that are
• 1:34:45
  those. F Bomb moments.
• 1:34:46
  That we've talked about, but I think Millie's had more moments
• 1:34:49
  where and it's probably because she's she's been in more of the
• 1:34:52
  the shows. I mean, you know, 70 like say
• 1:34:53
  she carried 73 yards. I can't see you know, and we
• 1:34:58
  should different 73 yards coming because we've talked about that
• 1:35:00
  more than anything else. You know, she that was her first
• 1:35:04
  day. You know, that was her first.
• 1:35:08
  You know, sorry, the film that completely out of order because,
• 1:35:11
  you know, we'll film this with you while she still doing, you
• 1:35:14
  know, sex education. So that's her first story and to
• 1:35:18
  carry that it's just it's just magnificent.
• 1:35:21
  But anyway, I'm talking about should he, should he?
• 1:35:22
  Like, you know, he, he, he did exactly.
• 1:35:25
  The same thing in a single scene in dot Bubble.
• 1:35:28
  He came in at the end of dot Bubble and he's he just ripped
• 1:35:31
  that episode from everybody else.
• 1:35:33
  Yeah, absolutely. And.
• 1:35:36
  So, you know, he's, he's had some really good moments.
• 1:35:38
  He's had some really powerful moments.
• 1:35:40
  I think he's got bags of charisma and you know, he's just
• 1:35:44
  I love that he's his doctor is this one that cries all the time
• 1:35:49
  and is so upfront with their emotions and so out there and
• 1:35:53
  and just he's so vibrant. Isn't he the 5th?
• 1:35:55
  He laughs a lot as well as much, and his smile.
• 1:35:59
  Is beautiful He sings, he dances he he.
• 1:36:03
  He's got a joy about them, you know, Thank God, right?
• 1:36:06
  They've got shooty cat. Why they didn't have him?
• 1:36:07
  Doing those things, it would be like the caption Archer thing
• 1:36:11
  all. Over again.
• 1:36:12
  Yeah, so big shout out to our our. 15th Doctor I'm, you know,
• 1:36:17
  looking forward to seeing a lot more of him as well.
• 1:36:20
  And I just have a .5 thing like. I said it's not really a whole
• 1:36:24
  thing because it's so small, but I just think it's so clever.
• 1:36:28
  I my last thing, well, I want it to be the cup.
• 1:36:31
  The idea of using the cup in that scene at the end, so her
• 1:36:36
  name is called out and the mum realizes.
• 1:36:39
  I just thought that was ingenious and the mum's reaction
• 1:36:44
  when she hears the name on the car and it's just such a that's
• 1:36:48
  an. Everyday thing used to his
• 1:36:52
  advantage. Brilliant.
• 1:36:53
  More of that, Russell, more of that so.
• 1:36:56
  Anyway, Joe, you said, where are we going?
• 1:36:58
  Next. Yeah, we're going.
• 1:37:01
  To Revilox. You can do the trial.
• 1:37:05
  Of a Time Lord, you know. Because we, as we said.
• 1:37:09
  Before you've. Done.
• 1:37:10
  My favorite, which is City of Death and people haven't heard
• 1:37:13
  it yet, but it's very good. Done Fraser's favorite The
• 1:37:16
  Happiness Patrol. The extended edition.
• 1:37:20
  And we're going to do yours. We haven't done the extended
• 1:37:22
  edition. It's just no.
• 1:37:24
  What's so funny? We're doing the, we're doing.
• 1:37:25
  The Strictly come Hamster season 23 soon as well.
• 1:37:28
  People get sick to death of me talking about it.
• 1:37:30
  Well do you know what? It'll be ages before you release
• 1:37:33
  it. When we've done it anyway, so
• 1:37:35
  it's going to take us ages to record that one.
• 1:37:38
  I'm thinking of bringing this one out tomorrow, so yeah.
• 1:37:42
  Oh, wonderful. Mine Warp all that Pip and Jane
• 1:37:44
  Baker, all that Colin, I have. I have opinions.
• 1:37:48
  Oh good. Well, nothing unusual.
• 1:37:50
  There, I'm not sitting on the fence.
• 1:37:54
  Well, I suppose we should sync up our Diaries then.
• 1:37:57
  And and embark on this enormous epic Before we go, gentlemen.
• 1:38:05
  Yes. Well, I don't get to ask this
• 1:38:08
  question very often. I thought.
• 1:38:09
  I thought I'd like to. Sorry.
• 1:38:11
  Your library's been a bit quiet lately.
• 1:38:13
  When are we going to hear from that again?
• 1:38:15
  Yeah, well, I'm just about to actually start.
• 1:38:18
  I've got got people lined up, I just need to actually get on and
• 1:38:21
  record. Life's been a bit up and down
• 1:38:24
  over the last couple of months, sort of personal wise and stuff.
• 1:38:27
  So yeah, I haven't quite. And I wanted to have a break
• 1:38:31
  while Doctor Who was on because everyone would be doing what
• 1:38:34
  we've just done, the reactions and everything else.
• 1:38:37
  And that breaks just turned out to be a bit longer because
• 1:38:39
  there's been stuff going on in my family and stuff.
• 1:38:42
  My brother's been very unwell so it is coming back, it will
• 1:38:46
  probably be back in August and Fraser, what exciting things can
• 1:38:51
  we expect to? Hear from you, you know, whoring
• 1:38:54
  yourself out on all these other podcasts.
• 1:38:57
  Oh. Well, let me think.
• 1:39:00
  I'm due to pop out the Jim's box, Jim alumby's box at some
• 1:39:04
  point. Hooray, I've spent some time in
• 1:39:07
  this. Box, you know.
• 1:39:09
  That's one of my favorite podcasts, Jim.
• 1:39:11
  If you're listening, I really enjoy that one.
• 1:39:13
  You know, it's one of mine as well.
• 1:39:15
  It's just turned out to be. A real joy I want.
• 1:39:18
  To go back, I've got more objects, I've got a few trap
• 1:39:25
  ones lined. Up in the next week, we're doing
• 1:39:27
  one-on-one of the books, I think, or something.
• 1:39:30
  Aren't we? Are we doing something?
• 1:39:32
  We might be, Maybe. I hope so.
• 1:39:35
  That would be fun. Well.
• 1:39:37
  You're probably doing a field report shortly.
• 1:39:40
  Oh yes, yes, we'll do that. Go to the space corridor, it's
• 1:39:45
  coming on. Talk all things Candyman.
• 1:39:49
  And that's going to be so. Exciting that new.
• 1:39:52
  Happiness Patrol. It looks amazing, isn't it?
• 1:39:55
  Does even. I'm excited and I'm.
• 1:39:58
  Going to see Nick Briggs live on stage.
• 1:40:00
  God help me. Hey, all of my favorite.
• 1:40:06
  Oh no, you're OK. Most of my favorite people are
• 1:40:09
  going to that. It's going to be fun.
• 1:40:11
  Well then, gentlemen, Joe, what are you doing at the moment?
• 1:40:15
  Fucking. Everything Jesus Christ I'm
• 1:40:18
  reading. Six books.
• 1:40:19
  I've got 12 episodes of Strictly come Hamster in the pipeline.
• 1:40:24
  I've got about 900 commentaries primed and ready to go Strictly.
• 1:40:29
  Soon SO. I'm very excited about that.
• 1:40:32
  Yes, I've got one of those booked in as well.
• 1:40:34
  Now can. We break.
• 1:40:37
  Rods just to entice the listeners, could you perhaps
• 1:40:41
  say? Which seasons you're doing Dawn
• 1:40:43
  Fraser, What are you doing I. AM.
• 1:40:48
  Going from Galaxy 4 through to the arc.
• 1:40:56
  Oh my God, season 3. Plus the smugglers.
• 1:41:00
  Probably no, because Rod has split it in two.
• 1:41:04
  And decided that he's going to do the the first six stories is
• 1:41:11
  one block, and then the remaining four stories plus the
• 1:41:16
  smugglers in the 10th planet is. Is that right?
• 1:41:20
  Yeah. He never told me that.
• 1:41:22
  Jesus. Yeah.
• 1:41:26
  But Fraser, we managed to last 4 1/2 hours just on the six
• 1:41:31
  stories in season season 20. If we did the whole of season
• 1:41:35
  three, we'd be there all night. Oh, God.
• 1:41:37
  And So what are you doing? I'm coming.
• 1:41:40
  I'm coming for a per week. I'm coming for season 9.
• 1:41:44
  Is that the euthanasia boy? I'm not for what I'm coming for.
• 1:41:48
  Purwin no it. Definitely ain't coming over
• 1:41:50
  that season. Oops with the lover win shorts.
• 1:41:54
  Yes, I I believe this is a season you have.
• 1:41:56
  Difficulty with maybe? Maybe.
• 1:42:02
  I'm not. Telling Rod.
• 1:42:04
  And after the explosive, just my my next.
• 1:42:07
  One after the explosive first half of series 11.
• 1:42:11
  Oh boy, wait till you hear this, which ran to three.
• 1:42:15
  Hours on four stories. We've got the 2nd, It's going to
• 1:42:19
  be edited. The second-half of that is
• 1:42:21
  coming out soon. I can't wait, and Rod's dreading
• 1:42:24
  it. So there you go.
• 1:42:27
  Well, boys, thank. You very much for your time
• 1:42:29
  tonight. Yeah, utterly ambivalent about
• 1:42:33
  this episode now, but we're going, we're going to do the.
• 1:42:37
  Trial and that's going to be great as.
• 1:42:39
  Ever a joy to talk to you? Both always Joe and always
• 1:42:44
  Fraser. Can someone sign this off
• 1:42:46
  please? Where are you?
• 1:42:50
  We've got I'll just. Cut it there.