Latest / The You Project / #1763 Why a Vegetarian Would Eat Steak - Matty Lansdown

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#1763 Why a Vegetarian Would Eat Steak - Matty Lansdown · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's it's Maddie, It's tiff Tiffany Ankok,
0:03
Speaker 1: who actually has my name on her screen, which is
0:07
Speaker 1: somewhat confusing. Why do you have my name on your
0:10
Speaker 1: screen at the moment.
0:11
Speaker 2: Because I've just thought i'd try it.
0:13
Speaker 3: On just.
0:16
Speaker 1: For today, Like what the name it feels? What could
0:20
Speaker 1: go wrong? We could go I might just send all
0:23
Speaker 1: the hate emails to you.
0:25
Speaker 3: You can tell you what though, I feel very bloody smart,
0:27
Speaker 3: but this PhD is hard work.
0:29
Speaker 2: I'm tapping out. I'm going back to cook athletes.
0:32
Speaker 1: You and me, both, you and me both, I'll tell
0:35
Speaker 1: you what. It's been been hard on Melissa doing it, though.
0:38
Speaker 1: I must check in and see how she's going with
0:41
Speaker 1: my research now I've just been cheering her on from
0:44
Speaker 1: the sidelines. You know what, do you know what people
0:47
Speaker 1: don't realize when you do a PhD? Hi Maddie, by
0:50
Speaker 1: the way, Hi.
0:51
Speaker 3: Hey, i thought i'd try on this Craig Harper name,
0:53
Speaker 3: so I've changed mine to Craig Harper as well.
0:55
Speaker 1: Or a fucking idiot. He actually has just put my
0:59
Speaker 1: name in his bloody little screen as well. So now
1:03
Speaker 1: that's funny though. What people don't realize when you do
1:06
Speaker 1: a PhD is that you have a team. Like every
1:10
Speaker 1: person who does a PhD, it's not just them, it's
1:13
Speaker 1: like at least one or two research assistance, generally somewhere
1:18
Speaker 1: between two and three supervisors, and everyone contributes to what
1:23
Speaker 1: they call the project, which is your PhD. And so
1:26
Speaker 1: whenever you write, like whenever I write a paper or
1:29
Speaker 1: a draft of a paper or a draft of something,
1:32
Speaker 1: it goes into basically a like a group chats or
1:37
Speaker 1: a group document where everybody contributes and looks and goes,
1:41
Speaker 1: why do you write this? Why didn't you write that?
1:43
Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of good because you get support
1:47
Speaker 1: and you get feedback and you get direction, but it's
1:50
Speaker 1: also very vulnerable because you've got to write your shit
1:52
Speaker 1: and then go is this rubbish? But yeah, I'm very
1:57
Speaker 1: fortunate that I've got a good tea. But we're getting
2:01
Speaker 1: there six months maybe July fifteenth, that's the deadline, so
2:06
Speaker 1: bigger's crossday. Yeah yeah, yeah, have you been Maddie? Yeah?
2:10
Speaker 3: Good, Fortunately not doing a PhD, but yeah, you know,
2:15
Speaker 3: life's been a bit wild lately, but we're starting to
2:17
Speaker 3: settle down before the chaos ensues.
2:21
Speaker 1: Isn't that what the kids are writing life lately on
2:24
Speaker 1: their Instagram photos. They just put up a picture and
2:26
Speaker 1: then everyone just writes life lately.
2:29
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't even know.
2:30
Speaker 3: I haven't really got into Instagram munch, but it's part
2:33
Speaker 3: of my twenty twenty five project to be honest, is
2:36
Speaker 3: to post more on get into more of the trends
2:39
Speaker 3: and the fads going on over there.
2:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm about to compliment you, so stand by here
2:43
Speaker 1: it comes. You've got the You've got the best podcast,
2:48
Speaker 1: and I mean this respectfully, that with the smallest audience, Like,
2:52
Speaker 1: you have a decent audience, you know what I mean, Right,
2:56
Speaker 1: you have a You have a decent audience, but your
3:00
Speaker 1: audience should be ten x twenty x what it is
3:04
Speaker 1: because the quality of your podcast and your content and
3:07
Speaker 1: your conversations is world class. So if you don't find
3:12
Speaker 1: so my listeners, if you don't follow him, follow him.
3:15
Speaker 1: He's great. He's great. That's true. It's true. I mean,
3:19
Speaker 1: how many podcasts are let's not go down that, but
3:22
Speaker 1: there's some pretty shit ones that have got quite a
3:24
Speaker 1: lot of attention. Let's be honest. People might say this
3:27
Speaker 1: one of them.
3:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting world to be in. You know,
3:31
Speaker 3: I've had the podcast has been successful enough that, you know,
3:35
Speaker 3: I left a day job and got a little team
3:38
Speaker 3: on the back end that sort of helps out and
3:40
Speaker 3: has been helping out for years. And then yeah, it's
3:43
Speaker 3: sort of the I guess you're wrestling against algorithms and
3:46
Speaker 3: SEO titles and all of the other amazing and shitty
3:51
Speaker 3: podcasts that are out there that have attention for whatever reason.
3:55
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think, yeah, I'm pretty proud of it,
3:58
Speaker 3: but i'd love to ten exit.
4:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's say if we contend exit now before we
4:03
Speaker 1: jump into talk about food and nutrition and the science
4:06
Speaker 1: thereof which is your field. Another area that you are
4:11
Speaker 1: rapidly expanding your knowledge in is parenting, potential parenting. You're
4:17
Speaker 1: about to become a dad. Your ETA is six weeks out,
4:21
Speaker 1: am I correct?
4:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, that's correct.
4:23
Speaker 1: It's how's that going? How's that going?
4:26
Speaker 2: Yeah?
4:26
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the Yali's pregnancy has been super challenging.
4:29
Speaker 3: She was really unwell, didn't like lost weight in the
4:33
Speaker 3: first trimester, didn't eat, didn't drink, hospital every week for fluids,
4:39
Speaker 3: vomited five times a day, So that was super challenging
4:43
Speaker 3: for her obviously, but challenging for me in the respect
4:45
Speaker 3: that I just have a massive burden of knowledge of
4:48
Speaker 3: like all the potential risks of that situation and not
4:51
Speaker 3: being able to eat. And she's already quite a slender
4:53
Speaker 3: person with a history of eight years of vegetarianism. So
4:58
Speaker 3: she got an iron in fusion yesterday, which is good thing.
5:00
Speaker 3: But yeah, after the first trimester or a few weeks
5:03
Speaker 3: after that, she sort of started to level out a
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Speaker 3: little bit. And ironically, the vegetarian is now feels sick
5:09
Speaker 3: unless she eats meat. So meat is the only thing
5:13
Speaker 3: that puts her in a sort of okay place. So yeah,
5:16
Speaker 3: but it's been pretty good lately. We've moved house, we've settled,
5:19
Speaker 3: we've got some more space, and I'm really starting to
5:23
Speaker 3: send some excitement, to be honest about meeting this kid.
5:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be great, mate. Well congratulations in advance,
5:29
Speaker 1: but it's going to be exciting. And you know, in
5:32
Speaker 1: terms of like you were talking about, she's now eating meat.
5:38
Speaker 1: Is that do you think that's the wisdom of the
5:40
Speaker 1: body saying, Hey, maybe this messes with your head, but
5:44
Speaker 1: I need meat.
5:46
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
5:47
Speaker 3: There's all sorts of scenarios where pregnant women or vegans
5:51
Speaker 3: or vegetarians. So there's two cases or situations. One is
5:55
Speaker 3: that vegetarian vegan couples struggle to get pregnant, even pay
5:59
Speaker 3: for IV and still don't get successful, and finally, after
6:03
Speaker 3: years and thousands of dollars, they're like, fine, I'll eat
6:06
Speaker 3: a steak and then a few months later actually conceive.
6:10
Speaker 3: And there's plenty of cases of that. And the other
6:13
Speaker 3: thing is that vegans and vegetarians that do get pregnant,
6:16
Speaker 3: there's stories and anecdotes of people dreaming, like the women
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Speaker 3: dreaming about meat and like having overwhelming cravings of just
6:23
Speaker 3: wanting to eat meat, but they're wrestling with their you know,
6:26
Speaker 3: their morals and ethics and decisions about that. So yeah,
6:29
Speaker 3: I one hundred percent think that that's the body's wisdom
6:32
Speaker 3: saying this is what we need.
6:34
Speaker 1: And what do you think the like, what's the body wanting?
6:38
Speaker 2: Is that?
6:39
Speaker 1: Iron is it? What is it that's lacking? That is
6:43
Speaker 1: you know, because we talk about buyo feedback, we talk
6:45
Speaker 1: about the wisdom of the body. You know, I talk
6:48
Speaker 1: all the time about how your body is in communication
6:51
Speaker 1: with you. But you've probably got your fingers in your ears,
6:54
Speaker 1: you know, what is it that the body needs that
6:57
Speaker 1: it's not getting when it's in that state of providing
7:00
Speaker 1: for two people.
7:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you nailed it with the protein, because
7:05
Speaker 3: you want to you're building a human right, So protein
7:07
Speaker 3: is the building blocks, are the building blocks of life.
7:10
Speaker 3: And then you're also building a blood supply right for
7:13
Speaker 3: another another being. So iron, which is what makes your
7:16
Speaker 3: blood red, is incredibly important. And for people that eat
7:20
Speaker 3: little to no meat, the iron count is usually pretty low,
7:25
Speaker 3: and and Yale's was pretty low even before we started
7:28
Speaker 3: this whole journey, which is why I kind of lovingly
7:31
Speaker 3: suggested we eat more steak and do a few more
7:33
Speaker 3: things like that. And it took her a little while
7:35
Speaker 3: because she wanted to like process those decisions and not
7:38
Speaker 3: hate me for it and all that kind of stuff.
7:41
Speaker 3: But much much like the scenarios I talked about, it
7:44
Speaker 3: was like, four weeks after introducing steak into.
7:47
Speaker 2: Her life, we were pregnant.
7:49
Speaker 3: Wow, So I joke about the contraceptive method after February
7:53
Speaker 3: being that she goes back to being vegetarian.
7:58
Speaker 1: Is she going to stay on the carnivore path post baby?
8:03
Speaker 3: Unlikely, I would imagine, But I think she's just listening
8:07
Speaker 3: to her body, and I mean the plan is to
8:09
Speaker 3: breastfeed as long as necessary, so it'll just be about
8:13
Speaker 3: her listening to her body essentially, which fortunately she didn't.
8:16
Speaker 3: She didn't necessarily go vegan or vegetarian for ethical moral reasons.
8:20
Speaker 2: It's just she felt better.
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Speaker 3: So that's good because she's not wrestling with any huge
8:25
Speaker 3: demons about the kind of food she's eating.
8:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Hey, So among other things today, I want
8:31
Speaker 1: to ask you about I want to ask you about
8:35
Speaker 1: ozen pic and the like. I don't know if we've
8:38
Speaker 1: touched on it or if we have, it must have
8:40
Speaker 1: been a while. I can't remember it in any great detail.
8:45
Speaker 1: It just and you know, like, I'm like, sometimes I
8:50
Speaker 1: think things, and I think the way that I think
8:52
Speaker 1: is not the best way to think. Like I'm aware
8:54
Speaker 1: of that, and also well, of course it's not. I mean,
8:58
Speaker 1: I'm just one human. I get a lot of things wrong,
9:01
Speaker 1: and I will continue to get a lot of things wrong,
9:03
Speaker 1: and so sometimes I'm very like, no, fuck that under
9:06
Speaker 1: no circumstances. And do you know what that should be?
9:08
Speaker 1: You know, I'm that right, Yeah, But before I give
9:11
Speaker 1: an opinion, which I kind of already have, but tell
9:14
Speaker 1: me about what ozen Pic and the like are in
9:17
Speaker 1: terms of drugs, what are they meant to do? I
9:20
Speaker 1: know this is a multi layered question, and how do
9:23
Speaker 1: they work? And then finally pros and cons if any?
9:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean there's plenty of cons, that's for sure,
9:31
Speaker 3: but I guess yeah, there's this huge I guess explosion
9:34
Speaker 3: of people taking ozenpic and it's being sold. It was
9:37
Speaker 3: once only a diabetic drug, but it's being sold to
9:39
Speaker 3: everybody as the you know, b all and end all
9:42
Speaker 3: weight loss cure essentially, and it sort of messes with
9:46
Speaker 3: the metabolism a little bit, suppresses appetite and ideally means
9:50
Speaker 3: that people it's leading them towards eating less basically, and
9:56
Speaker 3: that is really appealing.
9:57
Speaker 2: You know.
9:58
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, we're having this conversation in j
10:00
Speaker 3: that's when all of the short term, no hard work,
10:04
Speaker 3: you know, marketing goes out for everybody in the health
10:06
Speaker 3: and wellness world, and everybody gets really excited because I
10:09
Speaker 3: think we enter this state of delusion for a short
10:11
Speaker 3: period of the year where it's like, oh, okay, this
10:14
Speaker 3: will work for me, you know, like finally I've found
10:17
Speaker 3: the b all end all thing that will save my life,
10:20
Speaker 3: and whether that be you know, a personal trainer, a
10:23
Speaker 3: low carb diet, or a zenpic. We enter within this
10:26
Speaker 3: kind of state of delusion that this is the this
10:28
Speaker 3: is the answer. But the you know, I am a
10:31
Speaker 3: little bit similar to you in that a lot of
10:33
Speaker 3: the way that I deliver information is a bit can
10:35
Speaker 3: be a bit crass and direct, because I want people
10:39
Speaker 3: to you know, receive the message and at least get
10:41
Speaker 3: curious about it. And I think with those mpick there's
10:44
Speaker 3: a lot of people out there that are that are
10:47
Speaker 3: losing weight, but there's lots I've had this conversation with
10:50
Speaker 3: clients on my call that have that have tried it
10:51
Speaker 3: in the past or are trying to wean off it,
10:54
Speaker 3: and it's you know, it's caused the dysregulated gut. You know,
10:57
Speaker 3: it's given them diarrhea, vomiting, constipation issues, unable to digest
11:03
Speaker 3: food properly. They're often told as well, once you're on it,
11:06
Speaker 3: you're on it for life, so then you create a dependency. Right.
11:09
Speaker 3: So the second people come off O zen pic after
11:11
Speaker 3: a long time, weight gain happens really quick, right, and so,
11:15
Speaker 3: and this is nobody should need to be on a
11:18
Speaker 3: drug for the rest of ever. You know, if it's
11:20
Speaker 3: a problem that's got a solution that's easy to obtain
11:24
Speaker 3: on the outside of that drug. And what I mean
11:26
Speaker 3: by that is is some diseases can't be reversed and
11:29
Speaker 3: need to be managed with drugs.
11:30
Speaker 2: But we've got gyms, we've.
11:32
Speaker 3: Got eating well, we've got you know, all the programs
11:34
Speaker 3: to help you manage your sugar. You know, I get
11:37
Speaker 3: that it's unsexy, though, you know, do deep, profound, hard
11:41
Speaker 3: work and you know, move forward, one baby step at
11:43
Speaker 3: a time and maybe in five years you'll be amazing.
11:46
Speaker 1: You know.
11:46
Speaker 2: That's yeah, nobody gets excited about that.
11:49
Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, zenpic get skinny in three months
11:51
Speaker 3: and don't do anything but inject yourself.
11:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, I mean on a range of levels,
11:57
Speaker 1: it's it's mentally and emotionally and physiologically potentially problematic because
12:04
Speaker 1: as you said, you go well, so, I mean, for
12:08
Speaker 1: on a surface level, it reduces appetite, among other things,
12:12
Speaker 1: Am I correct? Right?
12:13
Speaker 2: Correct?
12:14
Speaker 1: So essentially essentially the weight loss mechanism is less calories, yes.
12:21
Speaker 2: You know, been talking about for a millennia.
12:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and dietitians and you know, researchers and so so,
12:28
Speaker 1: oh wow, what's the magic? Well, well, the magic is
12:30
Speaker 1: that people eat less calories, right, So it still comes
12:34
Speaker 1: down to energy balance, you know, a few other variables,
12:38
Speaker 1: but for the most part, And then you think, well,
12:41
Speaker 1: is it possible that people reduce their energy intake without that? Oh?
12:45
Speaker 1: I guess so, Brian, you know, it's like wit and
12:48
Speaker 1: I understand that it's easier if you don't have that
12:51
Speaker 1: hunger because that drug takes away that hunger. But then,
12:55
Speaker 1: as you said, how long do you do that? And
12:58
Speaker 1: then you know, I think sometimes just recognizing that, Look,
13:03
Speaker 1: I can lose weight, and I can exercise, and I
13:06
Speaker 1: can change my diet and habits and behaviors and lifestyle,
13:09
Speaker 1: but I probably won't like that process and that's okay,
13:14
Speaker 1: Like this will suck, and that's okay because it's in
13:17
Speaker 1: that stuff. It's in doing the hard stuff that you
13:20
Speaker 1: don't want to do that you build then the strength
13:23
Speaker 1: and skill and competence to be able to deal with
13:25
Speaker 1: hard stuff, you know, because what I mean losing weight
13:28
Speaker 1: when you love food and you probably have typically overeaten
13:32
Speaker 1: for a while, and now you're in a state that
13:34
Speaker 1: you don't want to be, and your fitness is low,
13:36
Speaker 1: and your obesity is high, and there are some you know,
13:41
Speaker 1: some risk factors that are presenting themselves and all of that.
13:43
Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in this, there's just you know,
13:46
Speaker 1: just conversation. But then to get from there to where
13:49
Speaker 1: you want to be is not going to be fun, quick,
13:52
Speaker 1: easy or painless. And as you said, this is the
13:54
Speaker 1: time of the year where every man in his dog
13:57
Speaker 1: has got to peel a program, a product, or a
13:59
Speaker 1: power that is fun, quick, easy and painless. You know,
14:03
Speaker 1: That's how people sell shit because we want the reward
14:05
Speaker 1: without the work. We want the top of the mountain
14:08
Speaker 1: without the climb, you know, And so that it's you know,
14:12
Speaker 1: for me, it's all about how do I actually change
14:14
Speaker 1: my body really and how do I change my body
14:18
Speaker 1: in a way that's sustainable and mentally and emotionally healthy,
14:22
Speaker 1: not just physically where I've lost some weight, but you know,
14:26
Speaker 1: when I'm depending on a drug to do a thing
14:30
Speaker 1: that I could actually do without a drug. You know,
14:33
Speaker 1: could you reduce your calories without that drug? Well, yes, yes,
14:37
Speaker 1: but with a drug it's easy, but without a drug
14:39
Speaker 1: it's not. So then we fast forward that and we
14:42
Speaker 1: go and I mean, we don't know because it hasn't
14:44
Speaker 1: been around that long. But let's go fat five years
14:48
Speaker 1: after people have started taking it for each individual and goes, so,
14:52
Speaker 1: what are the outcomes five years down the track? Are
14:54
Speaker 1: you still using the drug? Are you in good shape?
14:56
Speaker 1: Are you healthy? You know? Are you functional? Does your
14:59
Speaker 1: body work great? Are you mentally and emotionally good? Do
15:03
Speaker 1: you have great habits and behaviors and a relationship with
15:05
Speaker 1: food now? And I don't know, maybe the answer is
15:08
Speaker 1: yes to all of that, or maybe it's no, I'm
15:10
Speaker 1: a fucking train wreck now because I just created a
15:13
Speaker 1: new problem.
15:15
Speaker 3: Well it makes me think of the I guess bariatric
15:18
Speaker 3: surgery and weight loss surgery and those kinds of things.
15:21
Speaker 3: It's in the same vein, which is that you don't
15:24
Speaker 3: deal with the underlying cause of the problem, whether that
15:27
Speaker 3: be psychological or biological.
15:30
Speaker 1: A lot of.
15:30
Speaker 3: People end up gaining the weight back in a far
15:33
Speaker 3: more strategic way, but after the surgery they might like
15:36
Speaker 3: the look of what's in the mirror. Often many people
15:39
Speaker 3: don't because they have this identity crisis. But what happens
15:42
Speaker 3: is that you end up coming out with nutrient deficiencies,
15:46
Speaker 3: inability to absorb nutrients, gut issues, food intolerance as you
15:49
Speaker 3: didn't have before, and at all of those things that
15:52
Speaker 3: I just mentioned are also side effects of ozenpic. And
15:57
Speaker 3: the published data shows above sixty percent of people that
16:00
Speaker 3: tako zenpic will have side effects that involve something that
16:04
Speaker 3: you don't want, you know, And and depending on the study,
16:07
Speaker 3: you look at it and go as high as ninety
16:09
Speaker 3: to ninety five percent of people that have a side effect.
16:12
Speaker 3: And then the question is do you want to live
16:13
Speaker 3: with that side effect for the rest of your life,
16:16
Speaker 3: because gut issues and ibs and cibo and those kinds
16:19
Speaker 3: of things, they can be pretty pretty unpleasant for a
16:22
Speaker 3: long time, as opposed to the unpleasantness of going to
16:25
Speaker 3: the gym every day.
16:27
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, all the unpleasantness of just just reducing
16:32
Speaker 1: your food. Like I remember, you know, when I when
16:35
Speaker 1: I was that fat kid. I just and I have
16:38
Speaker 1: that little epiphany that everyone on this show or all
16:41
Speaker 1: of my listeners have heard too many times. But like
16:44
Speaker 1: my strategy was just basically half of what you used
16:47
Speaker 1: to eat, and I probably ate sixty percent, but I
16:51
Speaker 1: ate the same foods I didn't because I didn't understand nutrition.
16:54
Speaker 1: I didn't know what micro and macro nutrients were I
16:57
Speaker 1: didn't understand fat, proto and carbohydrates I didn't understand, and
17:01
Speaker 1: you know, metabolism. I didn't understand the thermic effective food.
17:04
Speaker 1: I didn't understand all of these things. But I did
17:07
Speaker 1: know that there was a correlation between volume and obesity,
17:11
Speaker 1: and I just went, well, i'll work on that. I'll
17:14
Speaker 1: just eat So I ate the same foods, but I
17:16
Speaker 1: changed the quantity and I lost thirty kilos in about
17:20
Speaker 1: twenty weeks. And I was a fourteen year old who
17:23
Speaker 1: knew fuck all. But I knew that if I ate
17:26
Speaker 1: less and moved more. And I don't have great genetics,
17:30
Speaker 1: you know. And it's like, oh, so when I get
17:32
Speaker 1: an energy deficit, this thing happens, you know, And we
17:37
Speaker 1: try to do all of these fucking backflips and somersaults
17:41
Speaker 1: and trying to find this secret magic bloody pill. We go, well,
17:47
Speaker 1: how about this, Yeah, well it's easier said than done,
17:50
Speaker 1: of course it is. That's the problem everyone. How many
17:53
Speaker 1: times do people go to me, oh, easier said than done, Craig,
17:56
Speaker 1: I'm like, correct, Donna, correct, Brian. That's the fucking problem.
18:01
Speaker 1: Everyone wants easy, Like when we just go, oh, this
18:05
Speaker 1: is going to suck, and that's okay, you know, because
18:08
Speaker 1: one it works, it's effective, we'll lose the weight, our
18:10
Speaker 1: body will change. Now, let's put aside people with some
18:13
Speaker 1: real h I don't know, medical or physiological challenge, but
18:18
Speaker 1: for the bulk of the population, there's a real relationship
18:21
Speaker 1: between energy, you know, deficit and weight loss. There's an
18:24
Speaker 1: absolute positive correlation there. But then also in the doing
18:28
Speaker 1: of that, you become more resilient and adaptable and capable,
18:31
Speaker 1: and like, there's there's this other mental and emotional benefit
18:35
Speaker 1: that people don't get. That For me, that was the
18:38
Speaker 1: big thing when I changed my body and I went
18:40
Speaker 1: from identifying or feeling like this fat, useless, unathletic, unpopular,
18:47
Speaker 1: never going to be picked for a team kid to
18:51
Speaker 1: almost the opposite of that. The weight loss was great,
18:55
Speaker 1: and the fitness was great, and the change in appearance
18:57
Speaker 1: was great, But what was greater was the beginning of
19:03
Speaker 1: my understanding of my own potential. Well, when ah, fuck,
19:09
Speaker 1: if I could do these hard, horrible things for a while,
19:14
Speaker 1: they become easier and I've become better. Now when other
19:19
Speaker 1: hard shit happens, I'm okay. I'm used to hardship.
19:23
Speaker 3: You know, I'm curious to ask, though, because I'm often
19:28
Speaker 3: verbal on social media and podcasts about and critical about
19:32
Speaker 3: the eat less move more idea, And so I'm curious
19:37
Speaker 3: how you navigated the hunger, because just cutting calories usually
19:42
Speaker 3: causes a hunger deficit for most people. And that's the
19:44
Speaker 3: hard bit. That's the tricky bit, right, is managing the hunger.
19:48
Speaker 3: And if there's no resolution to that hunger, of at
19:51
Speaker 3: some point I will get the nutrition. My body is
19:54
Speaker 3: obviously craving because you can't white knuckle it forever no
19:59
Speaker 3: otherwise life. I'm terribly unpleasant.
20:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I think I went like, at
20:05
Speaker 1: some stage, I think somebody explained to me that fat
20:08
Speaker 1: is stored energy, and I went, oh, and I remember,
20:13
Speaker 1: I remember being fourteen and I could hold my fat
20:16
Speaker 1: stomach in my hands and barely get my hands around
20:20
Speaker 1: my stomach when I would sit down. I mean, it's
20:24
Speaker 1: kind of pretty gross, to be honest, like, and I'm
20:26
Speaker 1: not talking about anyone else. Don't get upset. I'm talking
20:28
Speaker 1: about me, and I'm not beating me up and I'm
20:30
Speaker 1: not hating on myself. I'm just talking about my experience.
20:34
Speaker 1: I don't send me an email. Yeah, I just remember,
20:37
Speaker 1: and I just remember thinking, Oh, all of this is
20:40
Speaker 1: calories that I can use, and that's kind of yeah.
20:45
Speaker 1: And again, you're exactly right. I don't think the way
20:48
Speaker 1: that I did it is the way to do it.
20:51
Speaker 1: I don't think izepic is the way or not the way.
20:54
Speaker 1: I just think that all of us need to figure
20:57
Speaker 1: out how do I change whatever it is I want
21:00
Speaker 1: to change, whether it's my thinking, habits, behavior's body body
21:03
Speaker 1: fat level, you know, employment status, fucking you know, emotional
21:07
Speaker 1: default setting, whatever it is, how do I do that
21:10
Speaker 1: in a healthy way and maintain it? Because I think that,
21:13
Speaker 1: like when we talk about personal transformation, be it you know, physiologically, behaviorally, emotionally, socially, relationally, financially,
21:25
Speaker 1: whatever the component of our existences that we're trying to change,
21:30
Speaker 1: the real issue is how do I change it in
21:32
Speaker 1: a healthy way and maintain the change over the long term.
21:36
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the approaches that are
21:37
Speaker 1: taken one not healthy and two not maintainable or sustainable
21:43
Speaker 1: over the long term.
21:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think as well, because we've referenced the fact
21:47
Speaker 3: that we're in January already, we get sold into pie
21:51
Speaker 3: in the sky ideas really easily. But you know, the
21:54
Speaker 3: most effective marketing tells you the most ridiculous outcome.
21:57
Speaker 2: Right.
21:58
Speaker 3: Companies are like, we've got five clients that achieved this
22:02
Speaker 3: ridiculous result, But they tell you we've worked with thousands
22:05
Speaker 3: of people that have got done really well. And it's like, well,
22:08
Speaker 3: there's a smaller handful of people that did extremely well
22:10
Speaker 3: and we'll just talk about them, right, and so, and
22:13
Speaker 3: we get sold into these delusions that we have more time,
22:16
Speaker 3: we have more capacity, that we're only going to stay
22:19
Speaker 3: in our strength. Because when you're at the gym, when
22:22
Speaker 3: you're in front of the doctor whatever, you know, seeing
22:24
Speaker 3: your consultant practitioner, you feel motivated in that moment, and
22:28
Speaker 3: that's when everything feels possible, right. And so then you
22:32
Speaker 3: go home to your screaming kids and your relationship that's
22:34
Speaker 3: not amazing, and you check your bank account and you
22:36
Speaker 3: hate your life, and it's there that you need to
22:40
Speaker 3: be able to do the stuff right. And so I'm
22:43
Speaker 3: a big believer in small goals but being excited about
22:47
Speaker 3: the journey, which which doesn't sound sexy. Again, it's like
22:50
Speaker 3: everything I sell doesn't sound sexy, right, but but you
22:55
Speaker 3: have to really want it. You have to be like,
22:57
Speaker 3: all right, I get it. I've failed for twenty five
22:59
Speaker 3: years at this Obviously I'm doing it wrong. Because often
23:01
Speaker 3: you hear that I need fast results, Mattie, I need
23:03
Speaker 3: fast results or I'll lose motivation. And I'm like, well,
23:08
Speaker 3: how many times has that worked for you in the
23:09
Speaker 3: last twenty five years. You wouldn't be talking to me
23:11
Speaker 3: if that system worked right.
23:14
Speaker 1: Correct, And I think I think you've got to really
23:17
Speaker 1: want it is true. I also think you've got to
23:21
Speaker 1: really be prepared to get uncomfortable enough for long enough.
23:25
Speaker 1: It's like this is you know, like this is Unfortunately
23:30
Speaker 1: I wish it wasn't. Like if there was an easy
23:33
Speaker 1: path and a hard path where you could produce the
23:36
Speaker 1: exact same outcome over the long term physically, mentally, emotionally,
23:40
Speaker 1: I would choose the easy path too, and I would
23:43
Speaker 1: recommend you do as well. But there isn't. There is
23:46
Speaker 1: no fucking escalated to the top of the mountain, and
23:50
Speaker 1: even if there was, even if there was, you're going
23:54
Speaker 1: to miss out because you don't get the strength and
23:56
Speaker 1: resilience and understanding and insight that comes with climbing because
24:00
Speaker 1: the work is being done, but it's not really work
24:04
Speaker 1: because you're a passenger. And then you get to the
24:07
Speaker 1: alleged top of the mountain metaphorically, and now you have
24:10
Speaker 1: no strength or perspective or skill because you didn't do anything.
24:15
Speaker 1: You just stood there. And this is the like people
24:19
Speaker 1: think that the goal is the goal, and the goal
24:23
Speaker 1: is the gift, the achievement of the goal of the gift.
24:25
Speaker 1: I think the journey is the gift because it's and
24:27
Speaker 1: again this is cliche, but who you become, not what
24:30
Speaker 1: you do.
24:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think too, the other part of any
24:35
Speaker 3: progress in life, the mentality that needs to surround that
24:38
Speaker 3: is that often when it comes to fitness or weight
24:40
Speaker 3: loss or anything like that but could be money, is
24:43
Speaker 3: that when there's a failure, you failed as a person.
24:47
Speaker 3: It's like to go back to that ladder analogy, you know,
24:49
Speaker 3: climbing the ladder. People think that if they fall one
24:52
Speaker 3: or two steps down, they've fallen off the ladder altogether,
24:56
Speaker 3: when actually, instead of because a lot of people lock
24:58
Speaker 3: in their mind, okay, twelve week. At the end of
25:01
Speaker 3: twelve weeks, oh, the pressure will be released. I'll go
25:03
Speaker 3: back to my happy life. It's hard, hard work for
25:06
Speaker 3: twelve weeks. I can do that. And then and the
25:08
Speaker 3: idea is that if at any point in that twelve
25:11
Speaker 3: weeks we fall a few few steps down the ladder,
25:14
Speaker 3: we just say, oh, well that didn't work.
25:16
Speaker 2: I give up and quit.
25:16
Speaker 3: And so I think we also need to all stop
25:19
Speaker 3: kidding ourselves that every failure is not catastrophic. It's like
25:22
Speaker 3: I dropped the ball today, and when I wake up tomorrow,
25:25
Speaker 3: I'm going to pick that ball straight back up again. Right,
25:28
Speaker 3: You're allowed to have a shitty day, a shitty week,
25:30
Speaker 3: you know, a shitty month, But it doesn't mean you've
25:32
Speaker 3: gone back to zero. You've got the skills, you've got
25:34
Speaker 3: the experience. It's just about being like, all right, we're
25:37
Speaker 3: going to have a few bad days. Let's plan for that.
25:39
Speaker 3: You know, imperfect is the only way anyone's ever done anything,
25:42
Speaker 3: So you know, plan for the fact that there'll be
25:45
Speaker 3: some shitty days. And having some kind of strategy as
25:48
Speaker 3: to how you mentally say, all right, this is what's happened,
25:51
Speaker 3: and this is how I'm going to get back up
25:52
Speaker 3: today or tomorrow. I think is imperative to success, because
25:56
Speaker 3: otherwise people just wait until the end of their program
25:59
Speaker 3: to go, oh, the suffering's over.
26:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think with many things in life, including tim Tams,
26:07
Speaker 1: it's all about how you respond, you know what I mean.
26:10
Speaker 1: It's like, how many people have you heard and youtip?
26:13
Speaker 1: Probably for me it's been I don't know hundreds of
26:17
Speaker 1: times where people have said to me something like I
26:21
Speaker 1: blew my diet. So then I just went fuck it
26:23
Speaker 1: and I go, what did you do? And after four
26:26
Speaker 1: weeks of you know, great eating and good decision making
26:29
Speaker 1: and restraint and self control, they had, you know, half
26:33
Speaker 1: a pack of Tim Tams. I'm like, okay, well, it's
26:37
Speaker 1: not actually about the tim Tams. It's about what you
26:39
Speaker 1: do after the tim Tams that has way more of
26:42
Speaker 1: an impact, even on your body, you know, because all
26:46
Speaker 1: but I wouldn't recommend half a pack of Tim Tams
26:49
Speaker 1: in a sitting. Nonetheless, it ain't undoing four weeks of work. Yeah,
26:55
Speaker 1: It's more about the psychological and emotional reaction after that
26:59
Speaker 1: behavior than it is about some physical consequence over the
27:03
Speaker 1: long term. And like you said, it's that ability to
27:07
Speaker 1: be able to go, oh, well, I fucked up, or
27:09
Speaker 1: I made a bad choice, or I did something which
27:11
Speaker 1: is inconsistent with who and how I want to be.
27:14
Speaker 1: What do I do now? What do I do now.
27:17
Speaker 3: The other thing that I've learned along the journey of
27:19
Speaker 3: helping people that you know, let themselves down, trip over,
27:22
Speaker 3: fall off the bandwagon is that we've all got an
27:25
Speaker 3: inner rebel within us, like someone that wants to rebel
27:28
Speaker 3: against the rules on some level. And so what I
27:32
Speaker 3: think people need to do, or what I work with
27:34
Speaker 3: clients to do, is like, because if we put too
27:37
Speaker 3: many rules and restrictions, naturally we want freedom, right. It's like,
27:40
Speaker 3: you know, one one demands the other in order for
27:43
Speaker 3: us to have balance. And so a lot of people find,
27:45
Speaker 3: especially busy mums and especially you know, people that are
27:48
Speaker 3: just overwhelmed with commitments men and women, is they find
27:51
Speaker 3: their sense of freedom and variety in food because life
27:55
Speaker 3: is so mundane and repetitive and hard that the only
27:58
Speaker 3: excitement that they can act access is the supermarket or
28:02
Speaker 3: the fast food or uber and so there's some variety
28:04
Speaker 3: and excitement there. And so if you put some food
28:08
Speaker 3: rules in place, or some agreements about exercise, and you
28:11
Speaker 3: find that you keep breaking them, then I would say
28:13
Speaker 3: what you need to try and figure out is to
28:15
Speaker 3: have a life where you can exercise that rebellion right
28:20
Speaker 3: and break the rules, and like the way that I
28:22
Speaker 3: do it. I utilize my podcast as a form of rebellion.
28:26
Speaker 3: You know. One of the reasons it started was for
28:28
Speaker 3: me to sort of rage against the medical pharmaceutical machine
28:32
Speaker 3: after working in hospitals, right, and so I get to
28:35
Speaker 3: I get to execute some of that fire within me
28:38
Speaker 3: that really goes, yeah, let's do this, let's let's fight,
28:40
Speaker 3: let's have this battle. I do it on the go
28:42
Speaker 3: kart track every single week, you know. But what I've
28:45
Speaker 3: found is if we don't find an outlet for our
28:48
Speaker 3: natural rebelliousness, because we want to exert control over our
28:51
Speaker 3: lives as free thinking, you know, adults, if we can
28:55
Speaker 3: continue to suppress that, we'll just keep tripping over. We'll
28:58
Speaker 3: keep failing, because that rebellion wants a release and it's
29:01
Speaker 3: probably going to be with us till the day we die.
29:03
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I think we need to be aware of
29:08
Speaker 1: our stories around food and around lifestyle. And I think
29:16
Speaker 1: if your story is I'm missing out, this is hard
29:20
Speaker 1: and I can't wait for these eighty four days to
29:22
Speaker 1: be over. You know, like, even though you've consciously changed
29:26
Speaker 1: your behavior, you're subconsciously waiting for it to end. So
29:29
Speaker 1: you can revert to normal, the normal that didn't work
29:33
Speaker 1: for the last thirty years or whatever. Right, yeah, so
29:36
Speaker 1: we're just like that's why, I mean, you know, until
29:41
Speaker 1: we and this is just me thinking out loud. This
29:43
Speaker 1: is not a solution, and this is not an instruction
29:46
Speaker 1: for anyone, but like, really think about it until you
29:49
Speaker 1: get to the point where you can fully commit to
29:51
Speaker 1: doing the thing that works, you know, which is okay,
29:55
Speaker 1: what's required of me to whatever, to become an amazing
30:00
Speaker 1: an academic or a speaker, or to have a podcast
30:03
Speaker 1: called how not to get sick and die and have
30:05
Speaker 1: a million listeners a month or whatever it is, or
30:07
Speaker 1: how to lose twenty kilos or how to run a
30:09
Speaker 1: marathon in sub three hours or you know, how to
30:12
Speaker 1: go to India and find yourself like TIF did or
30:14
Speaker 1: or whatever. Right, there's there's there's just a there's a price.
30:19
Speaker 1: There's a you know, if you want a pair of shoes,
30:20
Speaker 1: there's a price. If you want to fucking buy a
30:23
Speaker 1: house in Melbourne, there's it. And like the thing is
30:25
Speaker 1: that one can you afford it? And two will you
30:28
Speaker 1: pay the price? And there's and that sounds kind of
30:32
Speaker 1: I don't know, bloody naff a bit, I guess. But
30:35
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, unless you fully commit,
30:39
Speaker 1: you're always just going to be stopping and starting, like
30:41
Speaker 1: you're always just going to oh look, I'll you know,
30:44
Speaker 1: I'll see how it goes. I'll see. But if if
30:47
Speaker 1: the consequences and I've said this many times on this show,
30:50
Speaker 1: but you know, for example, you had to barring injuries, right,
30:55
Speaker 1: let's say you had the capacity to. But let's say
30:58
Speaker 1: you had to walk five kilometers a day every day
31:00
Speaker 1: for the next ten years, and if you didn't, the
31:03
Speaker 1: next day you would drop dead. Who's going to not
31:06
Speaker 1: walk five k's no one, Like, nobody's going to miss
31:10
Speaker 1: one day in ten years because they they'll die the
31:13
Speaker 1: next day. Right now, I know this is ridiculous, and
31:16
Speaker 1: it's not about it walking and dying. It's about what's
31:19
Speaker 1: actually possible when we get in our self in a
31:23
Speaker 1: headspace where we go, oh no, this is what I
31:26
Speaker 1: am doing every day. This is not what I'm going
31:29
Speaker 1: to try to do or hope to do. This is
31:31
Speaker 1: not what I'm going to see how I go with.
31:34
Speaker 1: This is what I'm doing every day. And this is
31:37
Speaker 1: not fucking optional because there is no way that I
31:41
Speaker 1: can't do it because I want to live. And so
31:44
Speaker 1: you know, when we open that door on possibilities, not
31:47
Speaker 1: probability is what's probable is the average person will make
31:50
Speaker 1: a commitment and they won't follow through on what's probable
31:53
Speaker 1: is most people will talk about the shit we're talking
31:55
Speaker 1: about now and not do it. That's probable, that's statistically
31:59
Speaker 1: more more likely. What's unlikely is people will listen to us,
32:04
Speaker 1: make our decisions, do the work, keep going, embrace the pain,
32:08
Speaker 1: and fucking tap into what's actually possible. Now, that's people
32:13
Speaker 1: don't want to hear that, But that's just fucking true.
32:15
Speaker 1: That's not my opinion. Just look at the data, look
32:19
Speaker 1: at the evidence about the amount of people who don't
32:21
Speaker 1: follow through. Look at you know, in twenty twenty five
32:25
Speaker 1: that we're now in we've got more information, inspiration, education,
32:29
Speaker 1: pills programs, products, fucking internet resources, more maddies, more tips,
32:34
Speaker 1: more craigs, We've got all of these people sharing, yes,
32:37
Speaker 1: what can be conflicting information, but we've also got more
32:41
Speaker 1: real science and bullshit science. But we've also got more
32:45
Speaker 1: unhealthy people. We've also got more obesity. We've all also
32:48
Speaker 1: got more emotional pain, more mental health, issues like we're
32:53
Speaker 1: not getting better as a collective. We are as a collective,
32:57
Speaker 1: we are getting worse. Now it's down to us as
33:01
Speaker 1: individuals to go, well, fuck, I'm going to take control
33:03
Speaker 1: of my life, my body, my thinking, my behavior is
33:06
Speaker 1: my choice is and it's going to be fucking horrible sometimes,
33:10
Speaker 1: but it's better than the alternative steps down off soapbox.
33:15
Speaker 3: I agree, And I think practically speaking, one of the
33:19
Speaker 3: things that happens when people do commit to new things
33:22
Speaker 3: and want to make these changes is that because it's
33:25
Speaker 3: the newest thing on the agenda, it's the first to
33:27
Speaker 3: go when things, you know, get busy or overwhelming, or
33:31
Speaker 3: you need to fit important things in. And so I
33:34
Speaker 3: think a useful tip for people when they're making these
33:38
Speaker 3: decisions and they're choosing consciously to be like, Okay, I
33:41
Speaker 3: am going to try and do this for a long
33:43
Speaker 3: time is you also have to choose your sacrifice. And
33:46
Speaker 3: I mean that practically in your schedule, because if you're
33:49
Speaker 3: going to now go to the gym every day, or
33:51
Speaker 3: now you're actually going to spend an hour cooking and
33:53
Speaker 3: beforehand you never cooked, you just put stuff in the microwave,
33:57
Speaker 3: you're going to lose something, and a lot of people
33:59
Speaker 3: just try and squeeze more into the same amount of space.
34:02
Speaker 3: And I think so being really clear and aware on
34:05
Speaker 3: what am I going to let go of so that
34:07
Speaker 3: I don't feel like I have to get rid of
34:09
Speaker 3: the workouts or get rid of the cooking when I
34:10
Speaker 3: do feel busy, I think you're far more likely to
34:13
Speaker 3: be able to implement that for a longer period of
34:16
Speaker 3: time if you also consciously let go of something and
34:19
Speaker 3: make space for it.
34:21
Speaker 1: Oh you always make sense, Manny, and that's why we
34:24
Speaker 1: love you. Tell people how to find you, follow you,
34:27
Speaker 1: connect with you, and listen to you if you'd be
34:29
Speaker 1: so gracious.
34:30
Speaker 2: Yes, certainly so.
34:32
Speaker 3: Podcast is on YouTube all the podcast platforms, How to
34:35
Speaker 3: Not Get Sick and Die. We've just kicked off an
34:38
Speaker 3: Instagram page which is about to get a ton of
34:40
Speaker 3: content called the Real Weight Loss Coach. So anyone who's
34:43
Speaker 3: got challenges yo yo dieting, going through that cycle for
34:46
Speaker 3: many years and wants to learn more about the psychology
34:49
Speaker 3: of what's going on their emotional binge, overeating and of
34:51
Speaker 3: course the nutrition, head over to Instagram as well. And yeah,
34:55
Speaker 3: Maddielandsdowne dot com for anyone who wants to look at
34:57
Speaker 3: my ugly mug perfect.
35:00
Speaker 1: We always enjoy chatting with you, mate, and I appreciate
35:03
Speaker 1: you tif you do okay yourself. Thanks Boss,