Latest / From 9 to Mom / plastic free-ish: what busy moms actually need to know with Jessica Franklin
Transcript
- Catie Fitzgerald: Welcome back to From 9 to Mom. Danielle: where we discuss balancing the nine to five hustle with the beautiful chaos that we call motherhood. And today we have a guest with us to talk about something that I feel like has been coming up more and more as our kids, and I's kids have gone to school. And that's about plastics. And honestly, plastics are everywhere. I did not realize that they are everywhere. They're in our kitchens, our kids' lunch boxes, our beauty products, takeout containers. Like probably in the bottom of every mom's purse right now, there's something. And some recent documentaries have come out and there's conversations around microplastics, toxins, what is clean living? this is leaving a lot of us wondering concerned should we actually be? Is it even realistic to remove plastics? Like what are we supposed to do? So today we're sitting down with Jessica Franklin, who as well as being a busy mom is a health coach and the host of the Live Lightly podcast. ⁓ And explores the connection between health. low-tox living, creating the healthier homes, and helping moms cut through the overwhelm that we're all feeling with this inundation of information to make more informed choices for their families without being so stressed. So we're so excited to have you here to talk about the truth about plastics, kind of break through some of the craziness of it all and help us really apply this in our everyday life. So Jessica, thank you for being here and welcome to the show. Jessica: Hey, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to jump right in. Danielle: Yeah, so we want to start really by having you tell your story of how you got into this area of motherhood and life, like what brought you here and who are you. Jessica: Yeah, well, thank you for that opportunity. think that for me, it starts in childhood. I grew up with a mom who had MS. And so just seeing the side of life where health is a challenge throughout your entire childhood and seeing friends who had moms who were healthy and able to do things that my mom wasn't, I always just, I think that formed and shaped a perspective that has stuck with me up until. Danielle: Okay. Jessica: now. mean, it's just really, yeah, it's been the foundation for my curiosity as to what creates health and wholeness and well-being and like what actually may be causing disease and illness. So I've always just been very curious since super young. And also my grandmother was diabetic. So that's another layer that was just always top of mind is like, how does that Danielle: can only imagine. Yeah. Jessica: happen and you know is there something we can do to prevent or improve yeah Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. And so give us your background of before you came before you became a mom, what were you doing for work and all of those things? Jessica: Yeah, before I became a mom, I was a yoga instructor. And so I taught yoga, I taught breath work, meditation workshops, and I was ⁓ also in teacher training programs teaching people how to be that. ⁓ my ⁓ for health began in health clubs and teaching aerobics and working as a personal trainer in athletic clubs, and then evolved into ⁓ a complete obsession with yoga. And then of course that moved, right? Yeah, it was not a bad obsession to have and I made it into a career. So I was super blessed. And after I had my son, it just, you after the first year or so, it wasn't super viable to be continuing that down that path of a career. So I focused on being a mom and but never just stayed curious and always Danielle: It's not a bad obsession. I feel like some of us have way worse obsessions than yoga. Yes. Catie Fitzgerald: Yes. Jessica: finding ways in my house to just implement healthy lifestyle like food and exercise and just all the things. Catie Fitzgerald: And how did you get educated in this space? Jessica: In this particular space, it started with a BPA-free label on a sippy cup that I was buying for my son. Yeah, so I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor. I didn't, you know, go to school to get a PhD in, you know, toxins. But that label, at first I was like, ⁓ cool, BPA-free. That must be better. Must be good. And then I stopped and I was like, wait, huh? Danielle: Really? Catie Fitzgerald: Right. Danielle: I think that's what we all think, right? That's what we all think. We're all like, ⁓ it's free of something bad. Great. But what does it even mean? We don't get past that. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Jessica: You That's right, yeah, but my mind being in the question everything kind of realm that I'm in for health, it started with food labels, like organic versus not organic. that was the first label that really, I think, sent me down the question everything that you ⁓ and bring into your home or into your body. But this label, it was not ⁓ obvious as food, right? It touched something that we're going to be ingesting, but it wasn't necessarily something that should spark a concern. But did go down the rabbit hole anyways. Yeah. Catie Fitzgerald: I love that. It is hard to, you see all these labels and it's hard to, you know, know when to ask questions or not. I think Danielle mentioned it in our introduction here, like that plastics detox, you know, the episodes that came out on Netflix. Why do you think it's such a hot topic all of a sudden? Or do think there's just more publicity about it now? Danielle: Thank you. Jessica: ⁓ both, think, well, not both, but I think there's a lot of publicity around it right now, not only with the documentary, but also like you can look at every news publication and magazine, popular and ⁓ And all had articles featuring microplastics in the last couple of years. So yeah, there's a lot more, ⁓ talk about it because I think that finally scientific studies and research is being able to find and prove that this stuff isn't good for us. And that's why BPA was removed in the first place. And my question then naturally was, well, why was something allowed to be used in a product that we're using for our children and they're going to be drinking something out of it and putting it in their bodies? And if it can take these chemicals and transfer them into the water or whatever he's drinking and then now that's being introduced inside my young child's developing body, like how is that even allowed in the first place? Danielle: Yeah. I think too like the idea of microplastics, BPA, like you said, you went down a rabbit hole. For those of us who are listening that have seen microplastics, heard BPA, can you define microplastics in simple terms for everyone who's listening? Jessica: Sure. Yep, definitely. That's such a good question because it is confusing. Plastic is like the stuff you see in the container, right? The sippy cup. are when the plastic starts to break down and deteriorate. So that plastic sippy cup is a very hard plastic and it takes some time, but you're washing it in the dishwasher or even if you're just washing it out with a brush in the sink. you're still breaking down that material and so it becomes small. And the chemicals that it contains to make petroleum into a hard substance called plastic, the phthalates, they are inside that, those little tiny micro and microplastics are actually small enough. So interviewed the ⁓ the director of Earth Day Foundation because they were heavy into ⁓ plastic pollution and advocating for less plastic through the plastics global plastics treaty. And he said, know, microplastics or anything from like these tiny, tiny little particles that you can actually see with your eyes, like maybe a plastic cutting board, right? Okay, to all the way down to like, you have to get a microscope to see them, right? But they still exist and they're still entering into that water that's in the sippy cup and then into your body. Danielle: Okay. Jessica: So I hope that that makes sense. Danielle: Yeah, that does. Thank you. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. I think it makes total sense. And I think you mentioned like the plastic cutting board. I feel like that was the first thing like that got me to start thinking about. I'm like, you're right. I think I saw a video that was like, you know, the plastic cutting board showing all the like cut marks on it. They're like, do you know what this is? And I don't even remember what the brand was, but I remember seeing that. I go, yeah, that's it's time to switch from those cutting boards because sometimes as moms like we're going through when you're in, you know, early motherhood and you're going through things you don't always think about all of that, you're using what's accessible and doing that. And I know one of the things that you do a lot of work with is, you know, finding those everyday plastics that are in your home, helping people find replacements, like the plastic traps. So let's dive into a couple of the biggest plastic, I'm calling them plastic traps, I think that's kind of really what it is that are in our homes. Like, where do you where do you start? Danielle: Yeah, that's the right terminology. Jessica: Yeah, that's a great word for it because it become a plastic trap where you're trying to get rid of plastic somewhere. And the thing that you buy to replace, is that what you're talking about? And then still plastic in some way, shape, or form. ⁓ Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah, it could be like you, yeah, you end up, you don't know what to replace with or talk more about like when you are working with some of your clients, where do you start to remove the plastics or where are the hotspots in your house? Danielle: Yeah, like we know sippy cups, plastic cutting boards, like where else is it hiding? Jessica: Yeah, well, I would say that one where people aren't thinking about it is in the bedroom. All of your bedding. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Okay. Really? Jessica: Yeah, all of it, all of it. Yep, most of it. Unless you're buying pure cotton sheets, 100%, it's a very hard net. Like most sheets that are less expensive, which that's what we're looking for. We're busy moms or we're trying to save money. We're looking for something that's like feel good and affordable. It's gonna be a poly blend most likely these days. It's quietly come into bedding. You'll find like, Danielle: You're betting? Mm-hmm. Jessica: down free fill, you know, it sounds good because you're like, ⁓ it's down free. So it's better because we're not using something that is coming from an animal, but it's like synthetic fibers made of plastic. Danielle: I would have never thought of that. And that's where you sleep, that's where your kids sleep every night. And you're right, because think about it, especially when they're babies, they're having blowouts, you're changing those sheets so frequently. I remember I would go to Tarjay every other day, I feel like, and buy a new crib sheet because I'd be like, oh, I just need another one. They're ruined every 15 seconds. So where would you like for that? What would you look for? What would you replace that? Catie Fitzgerald: That's crazy. Jessica: Mm-hmm. Catie Fitzgerald: Hahaha Jessica: Mm-hmm. Well, here's the thing. The next layer underneath that, because of blowouts, is what? is some sort of like a waterproof situation, right, cover? Yes, so that's all polymer and plastic and chemicals that are making it into something that's waterproof material. So then there's that layer. And then you've got the next layer, which is your bed itself, the mattress. And then the pillows could pop. Danielle: Cypher. Catie Fitzgerald: Yep, waterproof cover. We've got them on all the beds. Yep. Danielle: Me too, every single one. Catie Fitzgerald: Okay. Jessica: probably be that. So, you know, this is a lot, right? It's super overwhelming. So I'd say start with sheets first. with 100%, if you can, organic cotton. Just look for sales. ⁓ organic cotton is better for the fact that through the production, there's not as many chemicals treating the cotton and chemicals are not being sprayed all over the crops while growing. So there's ⁓ Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. Jessica: you know, it's just a better option and you can just wait for sales. That's what I do. I just wait for sales on items that I think are necessary and high impact like this. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah, and I think it's an amazing point to bring up that it's hiding in the bedroom was not anywhere where I would have thought it. My biggest thing is the kitchen, right? Because that's where we're ingesting everything. So with the sheets, is it like the skin contact? Is that what's causing the? Jessica: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So too, yes, that's really intuitive of you because our skin is our largest organ and we are, that we place on our skin, it can take into our body, it absorbs. And more so those from the shed, the microplastics, the little fibers that are shedding, we're breathing that in all night, ⁓ yeah. ⁓ absolutely. Danielle: What about clothes? Because now you've got me thinking about like clothes. Catie Fitzgerald: interesting. Jessica: Most of our clothes have been swapped out for polyester, nylon, spandex, all of it. then here's the thing. You think you're buying something that's maybe a little bit better because it's like, ⁓ it's made of recycled but it's being made of, let's say a water bottle is now being made into the clothes that you're paying a hundred dollars for this designer, you know, workout top and pan set. And it's plastic. Catie Fitzgerald: love a good spandex. Jessica: It's just recycled plastic water bottles. And those are off shedding. ⁓ you're really smart to think like that that's the next thing that we're really in contact with all day on our skin and breathing it in. Yeah, very true. And so, know, again, organic cotton, linen, bamboo, hemp, there's different fibers that are better for obviously, both, you know, just human health and the planet in general. Yeah. Catie Fitzgerald: right. Right. Yeah. And I think one of the biggest things like that, I've seen like the feedback from the Netflix documentary and that is people always are like, ⁓ you're fear mongering, it's not that bad or hey, like, what is it? So can you break down like how concerned should an average family be like, work towards you're saying like, wait for the sales and do that stuff? Are we exposed already anyway? Or like what level of concern should there be for certain things? Danielle: Yeah. Jessica: Right, we were exposed every day, everywhere we go, right? So you can't let that overwhelm you. But now that we have awareness around it, we just start making swaps with the next thing that we buy. We're constantly buying new things to bring into our household. So that next item, let's find something different, right? Let's find something we can trust that's being made by a company who actually cares and puts people and the planet before the bottom line. Catie Fitzgerald: and I'm gonna put you on the spot. Do you have any brands that you love that you know are like really clean and doing a good job? Danielle: Yeah, with that, Jessica: I do and I would be here half the day. I spent actually like, I mean, I've been doing this research for like ever since I saw that BPA free label, which was like my son is 15. So maybe 14 years. So I've been doing this a really long time and I, it just became something that I'm so passionate about sharing with mom. Catie Fitzgerald: You Jessica: because I know what a pain in the ass it is to have to research. And then you go and spend like your hard earned money buying the new thing and you're so excited and you're like, ⁓ my God, crap, has this chemical in it instead of that, you know? And so I actually have a whole guide that is full of all of the options. So it's just kind of like a done for you guide. You don't have to think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Yeah, that's what we need because I feel like I've been since I watched that, honestly since the first time when we met and we've been, it's been in the back of my mind and as I've been, know, I just, it makes you a little more aware to think about like as you go through your day to day, you're like, okay, what am I using that is in that category? And again, my brain goes to the kitchen, right? ⁓ Danielle: That's amazing. Catie Fitzgerald: the kid stuff that they use. Like I'm trying to find swaps for that. And the first thing is like, even you go shop at Target or Walmart or most of these places, the cheapest, cutest, most aesthetically looking things ⁓ usually the plastic stuff. So like I had a whole set of like the Target $5 plates. now I'm like, okay, well I had the Spider-Man ones, now they're just the plain color ones. Danielle: Spider-Man. Okay, just checking. Catie Fitzgerald: But now I'm like, okay, can use, like, we'll work on a replacement, but don't cut anything on there so I'm not like cutting into the plate, don't microwave it. You know, I'm like trying to look at some things with that in order to make the swaps, ⁓ it's expensive to make every swap or do it all quick. Jessica: That's right. Yeah, looking at it exactly from the right perspective. Don't ⁓ the plates with food on them. ⁓ cut the food on the plate. Correct. Yeah, those are good ways to help lower exposure. ⁓ Danielle: What about washing? Cause I've heard like kids also have binkies in there. My kids have all had binkies and I'm thinking about the fact that they're made with plastic most likely. And then you wash them in the dishwasher. What are some other like as we're swapping things out or thinking about it, like tips that we can do with what we currently have outside of microwaving to protect the kids or ourselves. Jessica: Yeah, you're ⁓ you're talking about like the ⁓ the binkies that they yeah the pacifiers Danielle: Binkies, like, dishwashing, you hear all these things, like, is there stuff we shouldn't be doing or? Jessica: Yeah. Well, so I mean, if that's like a low cost swap, I would say that's a good one to swap out, right? Because that's in their mouth and it's breaking down with every moment that they're using it. And there are really great like, silicone, like food grade silicone or like something that is just made with a very ⁓ quality ⁓ grade rubber, I would probably say is better than even silicone. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Jessica: ⁓ And so yeah, that's like one of those inexpensive swaps that's really high impact and high exposure. I would definitely consider that pretty quickly. Danielle: I don't want to scare people, I do think it is important while we have you here, what illnesses or long-term effects have been tied to plastics at this point? Jessica: Yeah, we don't want to like create fear, but this is really just about creating awareness so that we can make new choices intentionally, right? That's what we're talking about. when we have these conversations amongst our mom friends, that's the best way to raise awareness. And as far ⁓ as studies concerned with long-term health impacts, there's a lot out there. And so not to overwhelm, but endocrine disruption. So chemicals are associated with plastics are associated with disrupting the system. So this is hormonal balance. This is how our bodies do everything, right? Because they mimic hormones and they start to lace themselves on the hormone receptors. And so this can cause a whole host of different things from fertility issues to heart disease, anything respiratory. so it's just kind of ⁓ like is good to know so we can start doing better. We can make new choices because we have the power to make new choices. We can't control. how much plastic is being produced and put out into the world, into the marketplace. But we can control what we choose to buy with our hard earned money bring into our homes to surround our families with. So it's all about making choices. Danielle: Yeah, and I think sometimes we look back and we're like, ⁓ well, I can't fix that for myself. But the truth is can ⁓ the impact for the future self. And ⁓ I think about you said fertility issues, so many, Katie and I both had some fertility issues at some point. And you think about that and you're like, if I could take that away from my kids, you know, what a gift that would be, right? So it is a big deal. Jessica: Yeah. Absolutely. Catie Fitzgerald: So I think we want to dive into some swaps and things. So you already mentioned the bedding, but if somebody had to make three swaps and prioritize, what would the three things be to focus on in their home? Jessica: Okay, well, we've already talked about something that's not top of mind or obvious. Like you said, the betting. And so the three other swaps, I would say, if you could only make three, I would definitely make betting a priority out of those top three. I would say also if you are drinking out of single use plastic water bottles, that is another really big high impact swap. ⁓ you can drink out of glass, you can drink out of I bought my son instead of the sippy cup. Catie Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Jessica: I bought him a Pura stainless water bottle because it's food grade stainless steel. It's insulated. So it could be for water or hot or cold. And it has interchangeable silicone pieces, mouthpieces so that as your child progresses from like a baby bottle mouthpiece to the sippy cup, to a straw, to a sports bottle that they just drink out of it, you just ⁓ replace part that drinking out of. not the whole bottle. So it saves you money on not having to continually buy another bottle for this and another bottle for that when they progress through the different stages. that's a really great way to replace that single plastic bottle you might be handing your kid before they go to school or whatever or yourself. And so two and then three I would I would definitely say ⁓ the cutting board. Catie Fitzgerald: Okay. Yeah. Jessica: Yeah, get something that's made of, I think wood is even one of those so safe items. So I'm actually all my wood cutting boards currently to titanium or stainless steel. ⁓ Catie Fitzgerald: Mm-hmm. Okay. What about a lot of people, my sister like gets into this every now and then, like, I feel like she goes down the rabbit hole and she'll try to swap. She swapped a glass. How do you feel about that for cutting boards? Yeah. Yeah. Jessica: Mm-hmm. fine. It's heavy. Yeah, and you can break it. That's why I never swap to that. ⁓ already been there done that with we have ⁓ water jugs that are like three gallon when we go to fill them with reverse osmosis water. And had of those break on me in the car and one of them break on me in the house. So yeah. Catie Fitzgerald: With the kids in the house, yeah, that's a problem. Danielle: Hahaha! Catie Fitzgerald: Okay. So. That's a lot of water everywhere. Jessica: Glass is great, but you just yeah like if I can avoid breaking a cutting board that would be yeah that's great. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah, I know. That's a good point. Danielle: Yeah, because Katie, I would be even nervous about glass because you hear then this is where the overwhelm comes in. The glass straw saga. People switched to glass straws so they weren't using plastic straws and then the glass straws are breaking in people's mouths. so maybe like you said, stainless steel over glass. Jessica: Yeah, stainless steel is a good cutting board titanium, stainless steel food grade. then also for straws, stainless steel is a good swap as well. ⁓ Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. So what would your final advice to moms that maybe this is overwhelming them a little bit? I feel like we've tried to remain calm, right? Like we're trying to show calmness. This isn't urgent, but what would your final advice be for them? Danielle: Well, everybody's calm. We're good. Jessica: Yeah. You know, like you said, just don't stress about it. Don't lead with fear-based energy because the worry and the stress and the fear-based energy, I think, is worse for us than anything else, right? Like our feelings and how we're thinking and how we're just showing up around our kids in the world is energetically really important as well. So just... You know, go about things moving forward, feeling empowered and inspired to do better, but don't stress it. Catie Fitzgerald: I think that's important because it made me think of these marketing ploys for a lot of these people that are leaning into this and, we're a healthy swap. the marketing's so good on some of it. Danielle: Yeah. But I think what you said about energy and like what you put out there is so important, like the way you go about it. So as people are folk, instead of watching the marketing ploys that Katie's talking about, if they wanted to get more information, what are some trusted resources that they can go to that you would recommend and would say that would give them the best advice without going crazy? Jessica: more video is... Mm-hmm. Catie Fitzgerald: green. Jessica: Right, so well there's a lot of different layers to look at it when you're buying a product, right? So there's ingredients, there's materials. If you want to go deeper, you could go packaging. try to do as much plastic free as possible. And then if you want to go even one layer deeper, you could go at sourcing. Like, are the sources of these materials and ingredients good for the planet, good for the people who are you know, part of this process of making ⁓ things from beginning to end. Are they being treated fairly with fair wages and working conditions? So there's a lot of different moving parts that I've looked at when I, over the years have learned more and more as I'm swapping things out in my own home. And so find like the thing that you prioritize, ⁓ whether it materials or. Danielle: Yeah. Jessica: ingredients or packaging or, you know, maybe just really caring about the workers involved and like do a little research, learn a little bit about it. And I like EWG. That's a really good resource for looking up chemical ingredients. So if you're going to pick ingredients, you can go and you can, you know, look at your ingredient label of something that you're ready to buy. And you can type in those 20 ingredients and you can figure out what they're Rated as on ewg Catie Fitzgerald: Let's go right into your home guide. Because I was reading through that. Can you give us a little bit of an overview of your guide? Because we want to ⁓ definitely everyone a link to that. Jessica: Okay. Okay. Okay, yes, so if you don't wanna do all this crazy research and use EWG to look up every ingredient before you buy something, yeah, my guide is certainly a resource. It's done for you. There's different categories, and so all the different categories are just different chapters of the guide. So like let's say you're buying laundry detergent or household cleaning products. You just go to that chapter, find... Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Jessica: you know, what it is you're looking for, and then boom, the link takes you right to the business, and then you're supporting a small family-owned business as well. So I really like that aspect about the products that I've found to swap out my own home. I know them, I trust them, and have talked to most of them. yeah, and many of them are being featured in a master class that is actually also available. It's free, it's on demand. I've picked out the seven, like, highest impact swaps to make and the founders of those products have created small little educational just segments within the master class where they talk about their product and all of the chemicals that can be hidden in it and how to look for green washing and also why their products are a good solution to swap out in your home. So the master class is a free ⁓ resource and the guide is something that you can ⁓ it's it's low cost as well and and it's like worth its weight in gold because The $24 that it costs will save you so much time and energy and in the long run money as well. Yeah Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Absolutely. And I know guys, this Danielle: Thank you for doing all the hard research for us so that we could digest it. It's way more digestible when you have somebody else who's spent the time and made it so easy. So thank you and the others who have contributed to this for making it simpler for us moms out. Jessica: it's all about simplicity. We don't have time to put this on our shoulders. I did it because I'm like, this is my hobby. This is really fun for me. But I could see how for most people, this would be like one more to just overwhelm the already overloaded plate. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. And the guide is so good, guys. It goes from like dental things to pets, babies, baby gear, all those things. So can you, Jessica, give us where we can go to get that home detox guide? Jessica: Yeah, it's on my podcast website, is just livelightly.eco, and it's under guide. Danielle: We'll tag it for you. Catie Fitzgerald: course, we'll tag it in our notes. But Jessica, we have to before we go. We always ask everyone as a mom, ⁓ one thing where you say this is the shit I couldn't make up? It's a story that you just ⁓ don't believe unless you're another mom, then you know that it's probably true. Jessica: Yeah. Right, yes. So actually when I'm thinking back to ⁓ of motherhood, while I was nine months pregnant, we had just moved into a home that we were renting in a neighborhood that we were thinking about buying a home in. And just kind of wanted to test the neighborhood out first. So we signed a short term lease to rent a house and I'm unpacking the last box. as somebody is entering my house with a key to out basically the person entering was from the bank because the house was in foreclosure. Catie Fitzgerald: So what did you do? I mean, and stressful. You're nine months pregnant. You're like, I want to set up the baby room. Danielle: That had to be so scary! Jessica: my gosh, it was so stressful. So I mean, to make a long story short, luckily my husband is a lawyer. And when you sign a lease, like they can't actually foreclose on the house until the end of the lease. So they had to let us stay. We should have not made payments on our rent, but we did. ⁓ Danielle: What did you do? Catie Fitzgerald: Okay, so you were amazing. Well, that's. Danielle: Did you end up loving the neighborhood? Did you stay in the neighborhood? Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah. Jessica: Yeah, we ended up buying a house in the neighborhood, but my son was like five months old because it was only a six month lease. And so I had to move again in five months. So. So you can't make up. Danielle: That's awesome. Catie Fitzgerald: Yeah ⁓ that's a hectic start to my, yeah, he definitely can't. thank you so much, Jessica, for being on. This was ⁓ a great conversation and we'll make sure everything's tagged if you guys want to go over and follow her, check out some of the resources, but thanks again for coming on. Danielle: No. Yeah, thank you, Jessica. Jessica: Thank you so much for having me.