Latest / The Science of Skin / Skincare Through the Ages - Episode 6: A Comprehensive Overview

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Skincare Through the Ages - Episode 6: A Comprehensive Overview · The Science of Skin

0:00
SPEAKER_01: The Skin Care Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.
0:14
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Science of Skin podcast.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: My name is Ted Lane.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: I am a board-certified dermatologist in Austin, Texas, and I have with me my co-host, Dr.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: How are you, Dr.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: Patty?
0:25
SPEAKER_02: Good, Ted.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: How are you?
0:26
SPEAKER_00: I almost called you Dr.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Ferris.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: That would have been weird.
0:29
SPEAKER_02: That would be weird.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: We are going to chat about our skincare through the ages Neutrogena series, uh, where we kind of went through, well, all the ages through menopause, and we're just going to kind of summarize and chat about what we learned and some real highlights from all these five episodes that were published uh recently.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I just thought they were great, Batty.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: I did too.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: I have to admit, I binged them today.
0:57
SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, you you can't remember what you said five or six weeks ago or what somebody else said.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: And then also I hadn't heard some of the ones that you had recorded.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: And they were really great.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: So I really enjoyed it.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: I binged the whole thing today, and I love it.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: And we probably should say that at our meeting this year, we had a skincare through the ages session, which was really good and very well received.
1:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is a great complement to that educational activity because it really brings it to life, I think, with the studies and all the great work that NutroGene has done.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: And we'll talk about some of that, of course, in this episode.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the Science of Skin Summit uh took place in September of 2025, and we've got it scheduled for September 18th through the 20th, 2026.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: And of course, this podcast really was an offshoot from the summit uh because we wanted to make sure we we were providing education throughout the year, not just at the summit for those few days.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: And really it's it's just been so wonderful.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: And and now we've got great companies like Neutrogena sponsoring episodes and allowing us to interview some incredible dermatologists.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And we really had the who's who in terms of our guests for this series.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: We did.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: We absolutely did.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get started.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: So the first episode that we did was really the foundations of a good skincare regimen.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: And we had Dr.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Peter Leo uh involved with that one, as well as Heather Willary Lloyd from Miami.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And and we just went through, well, I guess we went through CMP, cleanse, moisturize, and protect.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's the basic for any regimen.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Let's just be honest, isn't it?
2:31
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's the three pillars as we like to call them.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: I love that episode.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: First of all, they were such great uh savants.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: They're all they're both super smart, but it was very practical.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, there was a lot of practical advice.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: I I particularly like Peter Leo.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, he talks a lot about a lot about moisturization, takes care of a lot of kids with really bad eczema.
2:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think he has a unique perspective on it.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things he says that I love is that, you know, there are a lot of good moisturizers.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: You really got to find the one that fits the patient.
3:02
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if you remember this, Ted, but we were all on podium.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: I think you were on podium with us at this time a couple years ago at a meeting, and somebody said to Peter, it was a gentleman, dermatologist asked him, I said, Peter, I don't know that much about different products.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do I pick one for a patient?
3:17
SPEAKER_02: He said, Sometimes you have to fake it till you make it.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And he said, find a company that you like that you know makes good products, a great consumer company that has great ingredients, like whether it's glycerin or hyaluronic acid or niacinamide, all those things we know, and just recommend one or two to the patient and let the patient really self-select.
3:36
SPEAKER_02: And he talked similar to that talking point when you were speaking to him.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: The, you know, it's kind of like we say the best sunscreen is the one the patient will use.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: The best moisturizer for a patient with barrier repair problems is the moisturizer that doesn't sting them, doesn't burn them, doesn't have fragrance, doesn't, you know, irritate them.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: So there's really a lot of good options.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I just thought that was such a practical, such practical advice that he gave.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: We talked a lot about the um Neutrogena uh gel cleanser, which has that amazing polymeric technology based on potato starch, where you can think of a polymer that kind of lassos the different surfactants and keeps them all in check so they can't sneak off and do nefarious things like impair the barrier.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: We love that gel cleanser because it's foaming, which meets patients' needs and desires, but it also helps to make sure that we clean the skin but not impair the barrier, as I said.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: And then we've got the Neutrogena Hydro Boost moisturizers, right?
4:35
SPEAKER_00: We've got the the water cream and the gel cream.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: The difference being the water cream's a little bit thicker, it's got the natural moisturizing factor ingredients as well as lipids that help to replace that which is lost in an impaired barrier.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And the gel cream being a little bit lighter.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and those two, along with the, and you mentioned this in one of your episodes, Patty, just the incredible selection of neutrogenous sunscreens.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you if you can't find something that you like in that selection, I'm not sure you're ever going to find a sunscreen.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: You're in trouble.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: You're in trouble.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: No, you're right.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: And we we did talk about that, especially in the teen episode.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: And you know, we talked also about the preteens, and getting kids to use sunscreen is hard.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: And they've just got about every formulation possible: sticks and sprays, and lots of really great creamy formulations, day, daily use sunscreens, beach sunscreens.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: They're just they're just in every part of that particular category of skincare products.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: And as I mentioned in one of the episodes, there's a lot of companies, especially the smaller ones, that really don't play in the sunscreen arena because it's not an easy one to be in.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: You got to be in it to win it with sunscreens.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: You've got to really have somebody who's a a great formulator who really understands the nuances of that.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: And I mentioned Joshua Williams, who I had interviewed, who works with the Neutrogena team and does a lot of the formulation.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Just he was just a wealth of information.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: So you can see how they get the breath of products that they have to offer consumers.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: It's really impressive.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I liked what Dr.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: Benjamin said.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: And it was something that I'm going to take back into my practice, which is, you know, the mom can control the sunscreen on the body, but the kid really should control the sunscreen on the face.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And she liked the sprays for the body because they were quick, easy, and you can rub them in.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: But let the kid have the stick and apply the stick, him or herself, and have ownership and autonomy on that.
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And I really like that idea.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I've never thought of it that way.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but that's going to change how I practice.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciated that pearl.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: I liked it too.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: I thought she had a lot of great practical advice as well.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: We talked a lot about acne in that series as well.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think there were some really good tips about that.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, we talked about using acne patches and how great they are because they stop kids from picking.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: So you don't get that acne excoria and you don't have all the post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation and the prolonged healing.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: So they're not just cool, which they're now cool, and I love that, but they also did some nice studies and talked to kids who were using them, and they said they were picking their face less and their lesions seemed to go away quicker.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that that's a really nice addition for this particular age group.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that dermatologists probably don't pay enough attention to patches, quite frankly, because we kind of poo-poo them.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Most of them were just hydrocolloid and maybe not do a lot besides provide a barrier and help protect the skin barrier as well.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: But we have to meet the patients where they are, right?
7:33
SPEAKER_00: We we have to educate them and allow them to use what they want to use for them to feel ownership over their own skincare routine.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the patches really allow our patients to do that.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: And thank goodness we have so many different options, some medicated, which I'm not a huge fan of, but the other ones that are not medicated and really just a hydrocholoid are are fine.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And and people love to use those.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think it, yeah, I think, I think we're we're getting greater acceptance with the consumers for them.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: And I think the dermatologists are now starting to rally behind them as well.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: And then we talked a little bit about Neutrogena oil-free acne wash because that's such a like a gold standard in dermatology.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: It's such a nice, non-irritating product.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: And they did a nice little study where they looked at patients with acne who used nothing but that product, didn't have any other topicals, and you know, their acne did get better over the time course of the study.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: So just using a good cleanser that doesn't irritate, doesn't disrupt the barrier.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: And they had done some preclinical work as well, but just it's a nice product to remember.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: The Skin Care Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: For over 90 years, Neutrogena has advanced skin health for all skin types with formulation expertise that combines scientifically proven ingredients and innovative technologies to deliver maximum efficacy and an unparalleled aesthetics experience.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: That's beauty to a science.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: So funny, we keep talking about these studies, right, that have been published.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's why we started the meeting, right?
9:16
SPEAKER_00: The meeting was initially called the Science of Skin Care Summit because we knew about all these studies and no one else really was paying much attention to them amongst our peer group, and we wanted to highlight those.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we just had our meeting, and and a very prominent um dermatologist in the medical space came up to me uh because we have a strong medical track now at the meeting, and and he said, you know, I just didn't realize how much data there was behind skincare, and I really want to get involved more.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: And how do I get involved and use my lab?
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and so kudos, yeah, kudos to companies like Neutrogena for continuing to invest and producing great ex vivo, in vivo, in vitro data to show and and developing like the diacetyl peptide, you know, these short little peptides that do amazing things, and they showed us exactly how it works in the skin.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: I sure did.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, if anything, I'm hoping that skincare through the ages not only gives tips and tricks and pearls and education, but also highlights how much investment goes into these very inexpensive products that are available.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: And and you used the term in your menopause um uh episode, Patty, about democratization.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what we're seeing with Neutrogena.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: They're allowing us to democratize beauty and wellness for the skin at incredibly low price points.
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Making it available to everybody.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: The other thing they're doing, which is, I think, a huge focus, is testing on all skin types, all Fitzpatrick skin types.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: That whole pre-aging study that they did looking at aging turning points in various Fitzpatrick skin types.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously knowing that darker skin type ages somewhat later than really light skin.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: But the basically the things you saw were the same.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, over time, all the same things occurred: dark circles, spine lines, and wrinkles, uneven skin tone, all these things happen to everybody just at different time points.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: And then they test the product on every single Fitzpatrick skin type.
11:18
SPEAKER_02: And that's so important, and that's a big part of democratization as well.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: All Fitzpatrick skin types, making sure that products work for everybody.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: That's a huge, I think, push from this particular company on Give Neutrogene a lot of credit.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: I thought they did a lot of really good work on that pre-aging group.
11:36
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And and they won't let a uh a clinical trial be performed unless there is diversity.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And I know this because I just ran one for them.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: I know you did.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: And and you know, sometimes it's difficult to to really um get that diversity uh to recruit the patients needed to ensure diversity.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier to recruit a homogeneous population of patients.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, but it's not the right thing to do.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And and Neutrogena really pushes their investigators to do the right thing, and kudos to them because we need to, and it, and thankfully it's it's not just Neutrogena, there's lots of them working out.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, almost everybody's doing it now.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: But if you think about a decade ago, Ted, nobody was doing it.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: And and I do give a lot of our colleagues credits for for raising the flag on that.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: I give them credit because they really turned the lights on, I think, for uh a lot of the cosmetic companies.
12:29
SPEAKER_02: But Neutrogena's done a great job, and they did uh did that as well with many of the products that we talked about.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: They tested them in all skin types, so it's great.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned the the the aging changes that occur and how it's more of a not really a gradual approach, but it's more of a stepwise approach to aging, and that's based on Neutrogena data as well, um, which I don't know that we talked about in this series, but Neutrogena looked at over 180 patients, I believe, Patty.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: You know this better than I do.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: We did we did talk about it.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: You you didn't remember we read the paper basically.
13:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's right, that's right.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's the next episode that we're about to do.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: It's the next episode, yeah.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: And that was a great study they did where they really identified those aging turning points.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: And as you say, it's kind of like a stair step.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: If you look at the really light skin types one and two, and then the twos and threes and the threes and fours, you get those turning points either in the mid-20s and around 30 or about 35.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: So it's it was really good work.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: And that was a big study that they conducted.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: I I love that work because it m echoed what I noticed in practice after about my first five years was people were coming in wanting anti-aging regimen or or something to rejuvenate the skin.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: And you just realized, and I'm sure lots of the dermatologists listening to us realize this as well, that aging is not gradual.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: There are absolutely points in life where aging occurs very quickly.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: And this study just reinforced what we had been noticing in our offices for decades.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think we dismiss a lot of these patients because you look at them and you're like, you're 27 years old, and you know, but they're starting to see those early changes.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: And I think it really positioned or gave us a real backing to do early prevention and early treatment.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: And this is where a cytal dipeptide came in.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, that nice little multifunctional anti-aging molecule that started out being looked at as an anti-inflammatory molecule.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: And then ultimately AP1 was looked at for anti-aging and had, you know, very diverse anti-aging activity.
14:29
SPEAKER_02: So you've got an anti-inflammatory to address that inflammation pathway, and then also uh upregulating collagen, elastin, hyaluronic acid, decorin, and fibronectin.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's a very cool ingredient.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we're kind of circling around it, but what we were really talking about is our collagen tank line of products.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: And that was in our third episode, Understanding Pre-Aging and the Gen Z patient, um, with Dr.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: Sheree Fry.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, you and you are the guest as well.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I was able to interview you and Sheree.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: And it was so fun.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed that episode.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I learned a ton from you guys.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, we essentially went through the paper that you authored, as you mentioned, and because it's such an important paper, it's it's honestly it's a seminal paper for anybody to to read and to understand what's going on in that age group.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: And the science behind the Collins and Bank uh products is just incredible.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they've did a lot of work, good preclinical work, and then even clinical studies looking at the finished products alone and as a regimen.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: And if you remember when they use the regimen, the AM, which has the sunscreen in it, and the AP31, and then the evening product, which has AP31 and Bacushiol, if you use them together, you got better results than using either one of them alone.
15:48
SPEAKER_02: So it really is a system.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it again, always doing really good clinical work across a diverse population of patients.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: It's all it's almost like a JID article, a Journal of Investigative Dermatology article, honestly, because it takes you through, as you mentioned, pre-clinical in vitro work to kind of provide the foundation of why they use the ingredient and the ingredients and formulations they did in humans.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so it I think any company out there who is thinking about publishing on their new product, uh, some kind of new ingredient, I would really recommend you look at that as as a framework for publishing uh something that would support the use of a brand new ingredient, but the work that was done was just perfect.
16:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the in vitro work was really interesting too.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: Remember they cultured human fly fibroblasts and they looked at them after UVA radiation and found those younger fibroblasts had more oxidative stress, upregulated ROS more.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: They were so much more reactive than older fibroblasts.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: All that damage these kids are doing, it's I know it's totally, but it's so interesting.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: And then they put retinol on the same two groups of fibroblasts and found that the younger fibroblasts were more responsive to retinol.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: So they're damaged that you get more damage, but you also get the the upside, which is that you're more responsive.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: So don't lay in the sun if you're a Gen Z, please.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I get the better response to to retinol.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Like that makes sense, but the greater damage I there must be a reason for it that I'm I'm just not aware of.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was surprising to me.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: It's it's a really interesting finding, and I don't think anybody else has ever really looked at it.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: But maybe you know the fibroblasts are just more capable of generating ROS.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe it's just that simple.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: They're just more capable of it.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: They're they're just have a heightened awareness.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: It's super interesting stuff.
17:46
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, they did a great job on that.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: And the the paper was uh, I think I hope everybody has a chance to peek at it because it is interesting data.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And then we moved into skincare for men, and and I was able to to interview two luminaries in that.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, so Dr.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Terrence Keaney and and Court Corey Hartman in Alabama, and we just had a good time talking about how it's hard to get men to use to do anything.
18:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the bro episode.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: It was the bro.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: You guys did a great job, though.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that Terrence went through all the differences between female and male skin, like more collagen in the male skin and more reactive oxygen species in the male skin, and more sebum, which makes sense because there's testosterone, and just all these differences that you have to take into account when you give a guy a skincare regimen.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: And then also the exogenous testosterone, which a lot of men, especially in their middle-aged, start taking.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: And so there's just so many variables that you have to, a lot of factors, I guess, to juggle.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: I thought it was a great episode.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed it.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciated Dr.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: Hartman's psychology background and kind of bringing that out for us to to use.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And again, practical tips.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: I learned something in that episode about how to talk to guys about skincare and again meeting them where they are and and starting easy and slow and and working our way, you know, developing a trusting relationship and working our way into something like a regimen that could really holistically help them.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, I really appreciated that because I think when we speak to a lot of our female patients, it's like I want everything all at once, you know, just yeah, give it to me.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh not the guys.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: A little bit goes a long way.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: And I thought that you're right.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: His background there was really helpful.
19:38
SPEAKER_02: It was so interesting.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, we went from men to menopause uh with Dr.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Amona Gahara and Kavita Marijuala, who are like two besties from Yale.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: I learned a lot about those two.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: They have five boys between them.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Five boys.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: You gotta be kidding me.
20:01
SPEAKER_02: And then they I mean Kavita is on the phone when she's got a kid doing an interview at school.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: She's on her phone doing the podcast in her car.
20:10
SPEAKER_02: Like I know it's so typical.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I loved it though.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: And it was great.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, Kavita said she went through menopause very quickly because she had about with cancer, and you know, that was what tripped her very quickly into menopause.
20:27
SPEAKER_02: But, you know, everybody is talking about it now and wanting to know what products are really the most beneficial.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: And it was sort of interesting because we touched on the hot topic of topical estrogen, and I think both of them sort of felt like uh has a place probably, but we don't maybe know enough right now, and we don't probably have the right forms, and we don't, you know, know about systemic absorption.
20:52
SPEAKER_02: And they were still very high on their retinol.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they they talked all about retinols and how easy they are to use and how important they are and how they affect all the layers of the skin.
21:06
SPEAKER_02: You get epidermal effects and dermal effects, and of course, obviously it's what's in the dermis that really makes the wrinkles and the things that we hate go away, but it's important to lighten hyperpigmentation and things like that.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: A lot of patients on HRT get melasma.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: So just how and also they both talked about skin of color patients, and they said they feel very comfortable using the Neutrogena rapid wrinkle repair products in patients with darker skin types.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget, you never forget the things that go bad in your practice.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: And I remember I treated a girl with skin type five with a prescription retinoid once.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: And when she came back irritated with PIH, she was mad at me, mad as a hornet.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: And I really did not prepare her properly for how to start it.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I probably just gave her the prescription and off she went.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: But they said they feel very comfortable with these steps.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Stabilized, slow delivery, bioavailable, low concentration retinols, which is basically what you get with that rapid wrinkle repair product.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I was so happy you guys mentioned rapid wrinkle repair and went through that because that's one of my fave retinoids, OTC.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: I use it.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: That's what I use.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's great.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And it can be for me.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And you can use it underneath your eyes as well.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: I found it super tolerable for all areas of the face.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: And again, super accessible also.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, I thought um Mona's in you guys got into sunscreen use as well.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: And Mona said you need to have the anti-Tinder relationship with your sunscreen.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: They were hilarious.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: I was laughing the whole time.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: The anti-Tinder.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: You gotta love it.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, I also loved, we talked about aging turning points, and I would have loved that study to go a little longer, like if I had my wish list, because there is something that happens in this perimenopause, which is actually right after the 35-year-old group, you start getting in the mid-40s, and that's when you start really going through perimenopause.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: And there is some incredible aging that occurs at that time.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: We mean we know collagen gets you start losing collagen precipitously in that time frame, and especially post-menopausal.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: And that's when women really come in and they're like, oh, you know, wow, something's really happening now.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: And that's when the intervention, you know, you you hope that you were collagen banking in your 30s so that you're not trying to play catch up, which is I think what exactly what one of them said when you're in your 50s.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: So that's also another great reason to be using good products when you're young.
23:47
SPEAKER_00: I just appreciated the fact that you had two brilliant dermatologists, both trained at Yale, like absolutely brilliant people, who are both going through, or unfortunately, Cavita went through menopause quickly, um, but going through the process and are able to kind of experience and commiserate with their patients and and talk about their experience and and how it's changed their skin and their bodies and their minds, uh, and and yet they still focus on the retinal.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is an age where we are, you know, uh approached every day with a new regenerative product, a new type of exorcist, and a new, you know, brand new peptide, a new growth factor.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, literally on the daily, Patty and I are approached by a skincare company with something brand new.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: And some of them are going to work out great, some of them are not.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the fact that they still rely as a foundational backbone to a rejuvenating regimen as to retinol just goes to show sometimes these foundational ingredients are not going to go away despite all these new things that are coming.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think we can just hang our hat on all the data behind retinol and tretinoin for sure derivatives.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: And I asked him that question why do you think it's still the gold standard?
24:59
SPEAKER_02: And it really is the science.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: And it was also part of what Corey Hartman described as his holy trinity.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, he talked about his three things that he likes to use in in men and retinoids at night was his go-to.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, you guys talked about moisturization and sunscreen.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: And I actually thought you guys were going to spend a lot of time on dry skin and moisturizing, but they wanted to talk about no, they they I was surprised because they really wanted to talk about reverse reversing the issues that had happened over the previous 50 years in their lives versus kind of focusing on the dry skin of menopause.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: So yet again, I was surprised.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, whenever I listen to anything about menopause, I'm always surprised.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: I think I know something and I really don't.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, dry skin is a huge issue, especially really post-menopausally.
25:51
SPEAKER_02: And as you get, you know, through the transition and like get into your late 50s and early 60s, that's when the dry skin, I think, really starts to come on.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: And it's sort of a challenge, honestly, because patients will come in and they're using heavy moisturizers because they need them, but you also don't have that rapid epidermal turnover that you used to have.
26:11
SPEAKER_02: So this is when you start seeing this milia phenomenon, which is the plague of women in their 60s and even into the 70s.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: And I can't, you know, so much time is spent taking milia out of people because it's a problem.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: You've got to balance the moisturization with the fact that you don't have as good an epidermal turnover.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: You've got to either use a little exfoliation, use something with a hydroxy acid in it, or you have to do a little bit of exfoliating from time to time.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's where some of the nice in-office procedures that aren't super aggressive, I think, come into play, like microderm abrasion and hydrofacials and things like that.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: But it is hard.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to balance the moisturization.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've never really thought of it that way with the slower epidermal turnover and the dryness.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's real.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: It makes sense um physiologically for sure.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yeah, we do.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: We struggle with the dry skin and the need to exfoliate and the our patients' desire to exfoliate.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and how exfoliation can it can increase the cell turnover as well over time.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's a it's a balancing app.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: But I also think, Batty, that's where the gel cream and the water cream can come into play.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Um depending on how much moisturization they want.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're both are not occlusive.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: They both um, you know, I I love the gel cream in the summer here in Austin because it's so lightweight.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: The water cream for my Accutane patients are in the wintertime.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: I think for the post-menopausal patient, the water cream is a winner, total winner.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: And they and they both said that they used it in their patients.
27:46
SPEAKER_02: And we talked about your study with procedures.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: So that was a great, again, I think something interesting for a consumer company to look at their product and see how tolerable it is within office procedures.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: That was a nice little study.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: And and Cavita was talking about how she used it post-IPL, but you know, photofacial.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Right, photofacial.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: She she made sure her patients were using it for a month, and she absolutely believed that it was enhancing the efficacy of the of that um treatment, that procedure.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: Um I thought that was interesting too.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Very interesting.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Anecdotal, anecdotal evidence as well as kind of more clinical trial evidence, all of it's pointing to the same thing, which is this is a great periprocedural integrated skincare product.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it ain't expensive.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: No, I know.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: You know, all the companies, as you and I know, they're all into this post-procedure space, especially the companies that make products for doctors, because we need them.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: But it's nice to be able to say, hey, there's been a study done.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: This is an inexpensive product and get it over the counter.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: It's not going to give you trouble.
28:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, and you looked at patients who had not a blade of laser, if I'm not mistaken, and microdermobrasion.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, we used the fraxal laser, we used uh the microdermobrasion, uh, excuse me, microneedling and chemical.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Micro needling, yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Those are the three cohorts of patients.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't a huge study, 10 patients per cohort, but but essentially it showed that patients were real happy.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: They they thought that it worked really well for them.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: They tolerating it, tolerated it very well.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: We showed that with the reduction in erythema, pretty much post-procedure, we reduced erythema really quickly with the use of the water cream.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, and then the burning and the stinging reduced 24 hours later.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: So we we showed that at the very least, if you wanted to make sure you had data to support the use of these products with these different procedures, you had it because of the study.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then I think you could get your own anecdotal experience after that to show the efficacy uh as long, yeah, assuming that you can compare it to something else that you've done for the patient.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it's nice because a lot of times we recommend so many occlusive things.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: And this is such a nice that was such a nice light regimen that you recommended.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's really it's probably way more cosmetically elegant and acceptable.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, putting Vaseline or aquifer on your face after a procedure is not the most pleasant.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So, well, I I think we've pretty much summed everything up here, Patty, and kind of highlighted our favorites uh from there and what we learned from it.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I just want to thank, of course, Neutrogena so much for sponsoring skincare through the ages.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: We had so much fun recording those episodes.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: We did.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: And we got to interview our buddies and and some real incredible people uh who are at the very forefront of skincare and and the skincare science, um, as well as rejuvenation and medical science overall and dermatology, many of these, many of these folks.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: So thank you to our guests, surgeons.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to our guests.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to Neutrogena.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And uh, we hope you've enjoyed this series of skincare through the ages.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, my name is Dr.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Ted Lane, I'm a board-certified dermatologist in Austin, along with my co-host, Dr.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Patty Ferris in New Orleans.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is Science of Skin podcast, formerly known as Skincare Confidential.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode, please give us a five-star rating.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that really helps us.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: And uh subscribe.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And of course, the best advertising we can get is word of mouth.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: So please tell your peers about it uh as well.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh, thank you so much.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Thanks everyone.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: The Skincare Through the Ages series is sponsored by Neutrogena.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: For over 90 years, Neutrogena has advanced skin health for all skin types, with formulation expertise that combines scientifically proven ingredients and innovative technologies to deliver maximum efficacy and an unparalleled aesthetics experience.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: That's beauty to a science.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: To learn more about the products mentioned in the episodes, please visit the link in the description.