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Maryland Dem Governor's Suspicious Deal Following Bridge Disaster · 3 Martini Lunch – Political Humor & Commentary

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Grab a stool next to Greg Karambas of Radio America
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: and Jim Garrity of National Review.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Three martinis coming up.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: So glad you're with us for the Wednesday edition of
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: the Three Martini Lunch. Jim Garrity is back today. And
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: for our loyal listeners who might remember us about a
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: week and a half ago saying we wouldn't be together
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: much over the next few weeks. Well, travel plans have
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: changed a little bit. So Jim is here today and through,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: I guess, about Wednesday next week. He will be away
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: a little bit at the end of next week.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Greg, I just couldn't leave you.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: It's one of those cheesy 70s movies where they're about
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: to get on a plane at the end. And no,
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: I just can't. We're going to be talking about the
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: Vivek Ramaswamy ad story. We're going to be talking about
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: the freedom of American hostage in Russia with the kind
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: of a, not kind of, a really bitter aftertaste. And
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: we'll also be talking about another crazy pollster, sort of.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: But we start with some really weird news on the
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Democratic side. Wes Moore is the Democratic governor of Maryland.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: He is expected to easily win reelection in in a
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: couple of weeks, and there's been plenty of speculation about
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: him as a 2028 presidential candidate. Of course, as long
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: as he's still running for governor, he's like, oh, no, no, no, nothing,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: nothing to see here about 2028. But meanwhile, the biggest
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: thing that probably happened so far in Westmore's time as
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: governor is when that big cargo ship, officially named the
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: MV Dolly, collided with the Francis Scott Key Bridge coming
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: out of Baltimore Harbor in March 26, 2024. So it's
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: been a little more than two and a half years.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: And if you thought there would be some reconstruction started
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: on that bridge in two and a half years, no, no,
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: that's still to come. But Jim has done some interesting
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: digging on this story. And it's the subject of the
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: morning jolt today. And I'll try to sum it up
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: as quickly as possible before tossing it to you, Jim.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Back on May 12th, you're right, Maryland State Attorney General
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Anthony Brown announced that the state had reached a final
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: settlement Of $ 2. 25 billion with Grace Ocean Private Limited and
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Synergy Marine PTE Limited, the owner and operator of the ship,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Brown's press release stated the National Transportation Safety Board in
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: its final report issued November 2025 found Hyundai Heavy Industries,
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: the maker of the ship, at fault in causing MV
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: Dali's loss of power and its collision with the bridge.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: But you dig in even further than that. The settlement
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: agreement signed by Governor Moore says that if the state
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: wins more than $ 50 million from Hyundai Heavy Industries in
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: this legal effort. The vessel parties, meaning the operators of
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: the ship, Grace Ocean Private, Unlimited, Synergy Marine, and MV
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Dolly get half of any money after that threshold all
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: the way up to whatever it was, $ 2. 25 billion.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Beyond $ 2 billion, right?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes. So why would they do that? So, Jim,
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: what got you on this and what have you discovered?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So probably about a week and a half ago, I
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: wrote about Westmore. I had just actually been driving back
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: from visiting family through Baltimore. And I thought about, hey,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard much about the Key Bridge in a while.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: looked on it, as we discussed in an earlier episode
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: of this podcast, the reconstruction is going really slowly. Not
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: unheard of for there to be delays and things like that.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: But there's also the estimate of the cost has gone
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: from in the range of about one point something to
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: $ 2 billion to possibly all the way up to $ 9
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: or $ 10 billion. Now, the federal government said, we're paying
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: for all of this. And the state of Maryland was like, great,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And now there's some question of like, well, wait a second.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: The government agreed to pay when it was much smaller sum,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: not this larger sum. And if Wes Moore chooses to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: run for president, there are going to be fair questions
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: about why is the rebuild taking so long? Why are
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the cost estimates going up so high? What is going
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: on with this? And again, he got elected four years ago.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: It's not like he's got a huge record as governor.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: So I write that and I get this follow-up by
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: somebody who's following the court cases involving this crash and
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: the rebuilding of the bridge going on. And they point
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: out this provision in there. And keep in mind, there
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: are three major companies involved here. One is Hyundai, which is, yes,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: connected to the, it's a big South Korean company, used
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: to thinking of them with cars and stuff. But this
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: is the biggest shipbuilder in the world who built the ship.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Then there's the owner and the operator. The National Transportation
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Safety Board's report on this really made it look like
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: this was an electrical problem. It was Hyundai's fault. Owner
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and operator are not really at fault in this. Now, that, however,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the same day that the state announces we've reached this
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: deal with the owner and the operator, the U.S. Department
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: of Justice announces this indictment that says, no, no, no,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the owner and the operator lied to the National Transportation
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Safety Board, submitted falsified documents. And they took a ship
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: that was in perfectly fine working order with redundancies and
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: backups and all the stuff it's supposed to, messed around
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: with it. And then in the circumstance, the power went
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: out twice. The power did not go back on for
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the engines. That's why they could not control the course
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: of the ship. That's why it collided. I keep using
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: the term collided. The pedants in the audience are going
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: to say, well, actually, that's not a collision. It's a collision,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: which is, I guess, what happens when a vessel hits
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a stationary object. Because everybody on earth calls it a collision,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: who are not sailors, I'm just going to call it
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: a collision. They have the collision. That's what causes the
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: bridge to collapse. I don't know if Hyundai is completely
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: blameless in this. Certainly their perspective is. And they believe
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: they can prove it in court. And they believe that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the reason the National Transportation Safety Board said they were
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: at fault is because the owner company and the operating company,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: they lied. They lied a lot. And they falsified documents.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And that's why all this is. Now, the Department of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Justice generally doesn't bring out indictments like this all willy-nilly.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: They must have found something that makes them believe that
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: this was a lie to the National Transportation Safety Board.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: But if you're a Maryland taxpayer, do you want any
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: money going to the owner and operator of this ship
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that destroyed the bridge? Oh, by the way, killed six
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: people and lots of injuries and things like that. Look,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: everyone will have their day in court. But once you
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: know that, this state government deal with the owner and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: operating companies look very generous and really like a sweetheart
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: deal for somebody who, at least according to the eyes
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: of the Department of Justice, these are the companies that
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: are responsible for the crash that led to the loss
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: of life and the destruction of the bridge. So it
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: will probably all get taken out in court for what
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it's worth. The owner and operating company says, no, everything
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: in the DOJ indictment is false. They're all a bunch
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: of liars. We did our part. We're going to win
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: in court. We'll see how it goes. But I think
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: if you're Wes Moore and you're running for president, you're
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: probably going to get some questions about this. And you
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: should get some questions about this because. even though Anthony Brown,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: the state attorney general is the one whose office announced it,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Wes Moore's name is one that's signed on the contract.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So it's not like he could say, ah, I don't
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: know what's going on. No, no, this, this is your deal.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: And people are going to say, wait, they're responsible for
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the crash. Why are you giving them half of any
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: damages you get in a successful lawsuit or settlement against
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the shipbuilding company? So anyway, but as far as I know,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: nobody else has reported this. So a little bit of
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: an exclusive on morning jolt and three martini lunch. Um,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Baltimore Sun, line one. All Maryland news. I just happen
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to have somebody who talked to me about this. This
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: is all public documents. It's all out there. The contract
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: is up posted online. You can find all this stuff.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: No one else was curious enough to look into it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Why is the state of government giving such a sweet
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: deal to these companies?
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Baltimore Sun's going to get right on that, Jim, on
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: November 4th.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Yes. There's not like Wes Moore was going to lose anyway.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: You know, he could shoot people. He's close. He's not
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: quite Ilhan Omar territory. But, you know, he could maim
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: people on Fifth Avenue and no one would. He'd still
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: win re-election probably. Maybe not. They did elect Larry Hogan.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: We'll see.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: As you pointed out in the jolt, this ship, I think,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: was built in 2015. The collision or whatever word we're
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: supposed to use was 2024. I know when you buy
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: a new car, I don't know how it works in
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: the shipping world, but by nine years, the warranty is
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: kind of over at that point. I don't know if
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Hyundai's been trying to reach out to these guys and going,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: we want to reach out to you about your extended
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: ship warranty. But it's kind of odd that after nine years,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: you're trying to blame the shipmaker when it hadn't had
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: any problems up to that point.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I am not a nautical expert,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: but it does look like Hyundai is getting a raw
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: deal here. Or at least according to the– now, look,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: maybe the U.S. government goes into court and the case
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: falls apart and the evidence isn't there. But Synergy Marine
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: is like, well, the indictment contradicts the National Transportation Safety
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Board report. Well, yes, because the indictment says you lied
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: to the National Transportation Safety Board report. You wouldn't expect
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: those two things to look alike if they accuse you
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of lying or something like that. So, again, there will
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: be time to get to the bottom of this. I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: don't think this will necessarily impede the process of rebuilding
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the bridge. But, again, if you're Wes Moore– and you're
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: running for president, I think you should get some hard
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: questions about this and say, how did you arrange this?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Why are you looking at Synergy Marine Group as a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: victim of this when they were, in fact, the company
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: that was operating the ship that ran into it and
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: destroyed the bridge?
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: I can probably hear some conservatives in Maryland saying, the
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: bridge is bad, but it's not as bad as the
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: fiscal situation in Maryland. Westmore deserves a lot of blame
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: for that.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Either way, Westmore has a bridge to sell you. Yes.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: Even Chris Christie's saying, man, your bridge politics are terrible.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: All right. Well, let's talk about something a little bit
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: more serious, I guess, than that. Although, as you mentioned,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: there were lives lost in that horrific incident in early 2024,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: but also horrific, the number of abortions we face in
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: this country all the time. And for those women who
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: would normally love to bring a new life into the world,
• 9:53
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• 9:55
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• 9:58
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• 10:01
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• 10:03
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• 10:07
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• 10:08
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• 10:12
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• 10:26
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• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, Jim.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Jim.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: On to the Vivek Ramaswamy story. This is the one
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: that kind of broke late yesterday morning. Tight governor's race
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: in Ohio between him and Amy Acton, at least up
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: until this point. Yesterday, this ad mysteriously came out, obviously
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: in favor of Vivek Ramaswamy, but mainly attacking the Democratic nominee,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Amy Acton, and the star of the commercial, her own mother.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: My name is Donna Arthur, and I'm Amy Acton's mother.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I worked at Children and Family Service Association, building one
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: of the first two sexual abuse programs in America. I
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: love my daughter, but when I saw her lying about
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: her opponent, it's not easy for a mother to say this,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: but Amy has a serious problem. She is a liar.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: She lies about her past. She says she grew up
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: living in a tent. None of that is true. She's
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: lied her entire life. My daughter needs help, and she
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: can't help you if she needs help herself. People can change,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: but first they have to tell the truth. And my
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: daughter still isn't doing that. Don't vote for people who lie.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Don't let her become your governor. If you think she'll
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: make your life better, you're fooling yourself. It will only
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: get worse.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: A lot in that vague statement of she's lied about
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: her past. And the only thing the mom talked about
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: was the tent in terms of the past. Amy Acton
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: has said that she and her younger brother were sexually
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: abused repeatedly and egregiously by their stepfather, I guess the
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: second husband of her mother. The mother sided with the stepfather.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: The kids were put into different custody, I think at
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: the age of 12. And so they've been estranged basically
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: ever since. The Acton campaign, absolutely ready for this. Because
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: there were a lot of people saying, well, if there
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: were actually accusations back then, then this is a pretty
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: bad misfire from the Ramaswamy campaign or whoever's putting this
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: ad out. And they had that documentation ready to go.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: It's almost like they were expecting this line of attack.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: But they're also ready with an ad of their own
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: starring Acton's brother.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: I received a lot of abuse, but Amy always got
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: the worst of it. She continued to receive that abuse
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: because she knew she had to protect me from from that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: And that if she hadn't done that, who knows where
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: I would have ended up. And she's 11 and 12
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: years old. And to think that that's somehow a talking point.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: Shame on Vivek. It's the contempt he has for Amy.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: It's the contempt he has for Ohio. He's not fit
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: to lead.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And so then, Jim, Vivek Ramaswamy, last night after a
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: rally taking ownership of that ad, he says it is
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: their ad. This video exclusively and also the rough audio
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: from WSYX Channel 6 there in Ohio. Here's Ramaswamy explaining
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: sort of what they were thinking.
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: It is an ad from our campaigns. And the thing
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: that I want to say is that I would love
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: for this race and this election to be about the
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: substantive issues that impact Ohioans. And unfortunately, Amy Acton has
• 14:13
  Speaker 5: been hiding from those issues.
• 14:15
  Speaker 6: She won't debate me. She doesn't allow cameras at her events.
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: And I think her record of continuously, certainly during this campaign,
• 14:24
  Speaker 6: I would say spreading some defamatory, disparaging lies about me
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: and my family That does deserve to be scrutinized.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: And he says it's also a pattern. There's other medical
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: professionals she's worked with over the years, public officials who
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: say don't vote for her, don't trust her. Jim, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: would say put those people in the ad, not this
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: very questionable, estranged mother with this really distasteful backstory. And
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: backfiring seems to be the likely result here. But he
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: says they're going forward with this ad.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It does not make the least bit of sense to
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: argue I would like this campaign to be about the issues.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: That's why we're airing this ad featuring the candidate's estranged
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: mother denying that she was abused. Like, no, A does
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: not connect to B. If you want the campaign to
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: be about the issues, make your ads about the issues.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Don't drag out the estranged mother saying, oh, don't believe
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: my daughter about all the sexual abuse that she and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: her brother have claimed about from my ex-husbands and male
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: partners and things like that. Like, This is– it's burrowing
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: beneath gutter politics on a scale of the deep water horizon.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: If you look at the story of Acton's childhood and
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you're like, ooh, that would make good fodder for an
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: attack ad, you should see a therapist or a priest
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: for an exorcism. There's something seriously wrong with you if
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you look at that and say, oh, this is what
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: we have. Now, look, the polling for Ramaswami has not
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: looked great for the last couple of months. Ohio, up
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: until recently, we thought of as being a pretty red state,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: particularly in the Trump era. I think back in the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Bush era, Tim Russert saying, Ohio, Ohio, Ohio. It used
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: to be more of a swing state. It turned pretty
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: red over the last decade or so, and DeWine won
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: re-election by a ton four years ago. Ramaswamy may be
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: fumbling this away. It looked like he was fumbling. It's
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: very easy to see this backfiring. This looks like a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: desperation move. This looks like something you do when nothing
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: else has seemed to work and you're hoping people gasp.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Even her own mother doesn't support her. Well,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: this is not a typical mother daughter relationship. Um, I
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: don't like it when they brag, they bring out the
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: siblings to say, you know, I don't vote for my brother.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Don't vote for my sister. You and I actually just
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: last yesterday, talk earlier the week, talk about our, our
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: fake attack ads against our siblings, uh, and things like that.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: But just like the, it, it, Very rarely does it
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: relate to the duties of the office that they're running for.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: It's personal. It's usually dragging in stuff that's completely extraneous
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: to the duties of the office. And it just is ugly.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: And I think there are a lot of people who
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: expected Ram Swamy to lose. Now I think there's a
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: lot of people who want Ram Swamy to lose. This
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: gave people a reason to dislike him. I've never been
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a fan of the guy. I did get to see
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: him campaigning in Iowa. during his presidential race in 2024.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: He's a very gifted retail politician. He can work a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: room really well. Unfortunately, he's undoubtedly objectively a bright guy.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I think it's very hard to accidentally acquire a $ 2. 3
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: billion fortune. But good brain smarts does not always lead
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to judgment, does not always lead to wisdom. And this
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: is egregiously bad judgment to think this was a worthwhile
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: line of attack in the closing weeks of a campaign.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: We will see how it shakes out, but I would
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: not be surprised to see Ramaswamy not just lose, but
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: lose by a surprisingly wide margin. Again, in a state
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: that looked pretty safe for Republicans not too long ago. Yeah.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: If you're Senator John Husted, you're like, I maybe sort
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: of dodged this Max Miller landmine and now Vivek's doing
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: this with two weeks left to go. And, you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: we're probably right next to each other, pretty close on the.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: on the ballot line could have done without this, uh,
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: for sure if you're him.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: But, uh, let's just observe like, you know, Ramaswamy runs
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: for president. Nobody, almost nobody had heard of him. You know,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: he was a Fox news commentator and wrote his book
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: on woke incorporated and stuff, but nobody was clamoring for
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Ramaswamy to run for president in the 2024 cycle. I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: think he quit after Iowa. So like, it was not
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like he was in the campaign for a terribly long time,
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: but he did that. He'd built up his name recognition,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: chooses to run for governor, wins the primary. Um, But now,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: if he fumbles this away, then I think this will
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: probably be the last we hear of Vivek Ramaswamy in
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Republican politics. Because you, like, why, if you could, look,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: it's not a great year for Republicans, but if you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: can't win this race in these circumstances, and you end up,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: your closing move is this, why should Republicans entrust you
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: ever with being their nominee for any office down to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: dog catcher when there are other options they can run?
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: And for the most part, Even the pretty aggressive commentators
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: on the right looked at this and said, this smacks
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: of Soviet style type of intimidation and tactics. I didn't
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: really see hardly any commentators agreeing with this move until
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: late last night when I saw, big surprise, Laura Loomer
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: saying that Amy Acton's stepfather never stood trial. And he
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: was never convicted. And others are saying he was never
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: convicted because he jumped bail and fled the state. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: he and Acton's mother hid out in Pennsylvania until he died.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: So the idea that there was no effort here is
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: certainly something. Also, Jim, I know I mentioned this in
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: our notes today. You know who the sheriff was back
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: in 1981 when this went down?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I have a feeling the Starship
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Enterprise will play a role.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Beam me up. Jim Trafican, who later became a longtime
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Ohio congressman and eventually expelled from the House, but one
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: of the more entertaining lawmakers over time. One last note
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: on this.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Back when corruption was charming and amusing, Greg. The good
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: old days.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: Lastly, comment from David Axelrod on this. It says, I'm
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: not going to share this ad in which Vivek Ramaswamy
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: unconscionably mines Amy Acton's family tragedy to advance his unquenchable
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: ambition to become governor of Ohio. I've been around politics
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: longer than he's been alive, and I don't think I've
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: seen anything uglier. And it tells us more about Vivek
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: than his opponent. Jim, this is probably worse than what
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: David Axelrod did, but David Axelrod made a history of
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: digging through ugly divorce records, not only in the Jack
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: Ryan situation as Barack Obama was running for Senate, but
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: against the original frontrunner in the Democratic primary in that
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: 2004 race, a guy named Blair Hall, just going through
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: very private divorce records, pushing to make them public and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: and then using them to attack people. So David Axelrod
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: isn't wrong here, but he's one of the worst possible
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: messengers for this.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Right message, wrong messenger, I was just about to say. Yeah, like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: you know, Axelrod, you can sit this one out. This is,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: you know, not a good one.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not his moral high ground. He does not get
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: to occupy the moral high ground. All right, well, let's
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: talk about something way better than that. I'm sure that
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: leaves a deep distaste in your mouth. And for that, thankfully,
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: there is Lorene Co. I love Lorene gum. It tastes great.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Just one small piece. We'll get that flavor going. It
• 21:18
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• 21:20
  Speaker 3: those boxes.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: My daughter loves it. I love the toothpaste. Just finished
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: a tube of Lorraine toothpaste. Lorraine Co. is better for
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: you chewing gum that uses the same mineral your teeth
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: are made of to support daily enamel health.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: That mineral, of course, as long time listeners know, is
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: nano hydroxyapatite, which notice how just naturally it rolls off
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: my tongue. And it does that because it's close to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: my tongue because nano hydroxyapatite is the mineral that your
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: enamel is actually made of. Lorinco uses the gum to
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: strengthen your enamel and repair damage. Comes in tons of flavors,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: including mint, cinnamon, bubblegum, and berry. And don't forget, they
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: have a really great fluoride-free toothpaste as well.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Right now, Lorinco is offering three martini lunch listeners up
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: to 50% off at buylorin.com slash 3ml. That's buylorin, L-A-R-I-N-E
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: dot com slash 3ml for up to 50% off. All right, Jim,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: some good news today out of Russia. CNN with the
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: story here. Russia has freed Stephen Hubbard, an American who
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: has been imprisoned in Russia for more than four years
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: on charges of fighting as a mercenary in Ukraine following
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: a direct plea from U.S. President Donald Trump. Hubbard is 74,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: a retired teacher, captured in occupied eastern Ukraine during Russia's
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: invasion back in 2022 and accused of fighting for the
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Ukrainians in what his family and the State Department said
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: were fabricated weapons. charges. His release was announced as U.S.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Special Envoy Steve Witkoff met Russia's President Putin for talks
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: aimed at advancing peace efforts in Ukraine. And here's where
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: the good story turns cringey, Jim. Witkoff thanked Putin for
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Hubbard's release, calling Russia's President, who is subject to an
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: international criminal court arrest warrant, that's probably less significant than
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: the fact that he's butchered hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: and hundreds of thousands of his own people in this war,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Witkoff called him a humanitarian. So, What do you make
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: of the release and how Witkow characterized this?
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: You're saying this is good news, Greg. And I'm glad,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I prefer him free than in a Russian prison. Let
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: us point out the position of the U.S. government is
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: he's been wrongfully detained. Didn't have a fair trial, didn't
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: have actual representation, anything like that. They say he was
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: fighting on behalf of Ukraine. He's 75 now, Greg. This
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: would make at the time of his arrest, he was 71. Now,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it's not impossible that at age 71 he's hobbling around
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: eastern Ukraine fighting on behalf of Ukrainians. I'm just going
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to point out that Wilford Brimley was 50 when he
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: made the cocoon. 21 years older than that, and this
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: guy's out fighting the Russians? Okay, I'm a little skeptical
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: of that. But either way, this is effectively Russian hostage-taking.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why we're bending over backwards. You want
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to express gratitude for this? Fine. The statement... You talk
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: so much about my president, President Trump, being a humanitarian.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You are a humanitarian also, sir. And I salute that.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: And I commend you. And I thank you again. It's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: not just that the International Criminal Court has indicted Putin
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: for war crimes of unlawfully deporting children to Russia on
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: a large scale. We're talking about 35,000 children taken from
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Ukraine to Russia over the course of this war. I
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: know not everybody likes the International Criminal Court, but the
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: abduction of the children is very well documented. United Nations
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: concluded the Russian military's actions in Ukraine amount to two
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: crimes against humanity, one being mass murder, the other being
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: forcible transfer of population, the targeting of civilians. They've bombed
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: children's hospitals. They've bombed schools. They've bombed every conceivable medical facility.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: The idea that this man is a humanitarian is appalling
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and ridiculous, and it is now The idea of it
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: coming out of a representative of the United States government,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: never confirmed by the Senate, of course, because he's a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: special envoy. He's not a formal diplomat. He doesn't have
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to go through that process like every other representative of
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the U.S. government does. Look, I get that Steve Witkoff
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: is a schmoozer. And I guess that he's a guy,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and this, you know, when you come from
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the world of Manhattan real estate, as Witkoff does, and
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: so does Jared Kushner and so does Donald Trump. You
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: want to get somebody to sign to a deal, you
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: shower them with praise, and you talk about how great
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: they are, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in the end,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is a severely evil man, a strikingly evil man.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: And it's even grading on the curve of Russian leaders.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: So if you run around and you praise an evil
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: man as a humanitarian, You are dishonoring the United States
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: of America. You are dishonoring the truth. You are dishonoring
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: the victims. You are abetting an evil man in his lie. So, yeah,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: it's good this guy's let out. But Witkow has embarrassed
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the country. And I don't expect there to be any
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: consequences for this. But I think it's a reflection of
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the back in March 2025. I was saying the administration
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: was now supportive, more supportive of Russia than of Ukraine.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: And month after month, year after year since then, it's
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: been very abundantly clear. This is the philosophy of the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: president and it permeates the administration. So what happened? Yeah,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he's released. But in the end, this is
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: what happened in Moscow today. It was an embarrassment to
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: this country.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, way too much groveling there. It doesn't seem like
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: we gave anybody up the other way like we have
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: previously when we had to send Victor Booth, the arms dealer,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: back for the WNBA player, Brittany Griner. So again, glad
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: he's home. But yeah, that kind of... Groveling is very distasteful.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: All right. In a moment, some pretty good news. Maybe. Jim, Jim,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: breaking news, breaking news. We have been declared the most
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: popular podcast on the planet from Wedgwood Polls. Now, if
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: that were true, that would be awesome news for us.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: But just like every other poll conducted by Wedgwood Polls,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: that's not true. This one actually wasn't done. But all
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the ones that they also didn't do were used and
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: taken seriously, because why not, by a bunch of different
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: media outlets. So yesterday, this Wedgwood Polls puts out a
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: press release saying, Wedgwood Polling, an experimental project to demonstrate
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: the vulnerabilities, lack of oversight, and An overall low barrier
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: to entry in the modern political polling industry says, having
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: previously worked in the polling and research sector, we watched
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: as the public's trust in polling eroded alongside a rise
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: in unverified, low-quality methodology. We wanted to test a simple hypothesis.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: How easy is it for an entirely fabricated polling firm
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: to gain traction, be taken seriously, and expose how little
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: scrutinization exists in the media environment? The short answer, far
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: too easy. Despite having no history, formal credentials, or real
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: data behind the vast majority of our releases, Wedgwood Polling
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: was added to major polling aggregators, including the New York Times,
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: 50 Plus One, and Vote Hub, and repeatedly treated as
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: a major polling aggregator. as a legitimate data source. Jim,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: this is the second time this cycle that we've had
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: a median strategy.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: This is not a rerun.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yes. Back in August saying, yeah, those Wisconsin polls showing
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: Francesca Hong way ahead. Yeah, we totally made that up.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: And some other ones, I think in California as well.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: And so, Jim, we've already said that the polling industry
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: seems kind of suspect based on the results this year
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: and in some previous years. But now we've got at
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: least two polling firms say, yeah, we just made it
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: up to see how you'd all react.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So, you know what? I guess it's technically one word.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: It feels like three words that did not appear in
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that statement from the fictitious Wedgworth polling there, Greg. Real
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: clear politics. They've always been my go-to guys. They do aggregate.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: But they don't pick everybody. They have to have a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: reliable– 538 is not in business anymore. The New York
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Times does a nice job of collecting what I think
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: is seemingly all the polls. And so if you're wondering–
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Is there any weird ones out there? That's fine. If
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: you want to say our aggregation includes everything that gets released,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that's fine. If you want to say we test for
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: quality and we only include the ones that are, that's
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: fine too. But pick that one. Covering campaigns since 2004
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: or earlier, people always want to know who's winning. Is
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: my guy going to win? That's one of the things
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: that drives people's interest in political campaigns. So there's always
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: been a huge appetite for it. Now, year by year,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: more and more people going to cell phones, more and
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: more people not answering their cell phones. People have tried
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: web-based and text-based. I don't know if Donna and Doris
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: are getting the same amount. I'm getting a lot of
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: poll requesting. And I'm sorry if I didn't ask to
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: get a call. As far as I'm concerned, you're spam,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: and I report you immediately. But my sense is, because
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: there's this hunger for it, Nature abhors a vacuum. And
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: you and I, if we wanted to create through martini
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: lunch polling, could do so. And if we went out
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: there and we said, Ken Paxton is up by 10,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: it's probably not the case. Ken Paxton, almost every pollster
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: has Paxton trailing by a little bit. Sometimes it's close.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: But that would get huge attention because there's a lot
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of people who want to believe that Ken Paxton is winning.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: If we said that Gavin Newsom has a 20-point lead
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: nationally in the 2028 Democratic presidential campaign, Gavin Newsom fans
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: far and wide would be spreading that. And deep down,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: nobody actually cares if it's true or not because they
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: want to believe. In the end, the con artist cannot
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: fool somebody if they don't already want to believe. And
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that is what is at the heart of why these
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: polls get included in the aggregation and spread so far
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and wide. It's a very unhealthy news environment. The difference
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: between truth and lie, the difference between accuracy and inaccuracy matters.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: But I went back and I checked. I have never
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: referred to Wedgeworth Polling, and I don't think we've ever
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: talked about it on this podcast. I certainly don't recall
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: talking about it. So it's just a lesson. If you
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: really want to know what's going on in this world,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: you have to use a little bit of scrutiny. You
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: have to do a little bit of stuff, and you
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: have to be aware there are people out there. By
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the way, media companies, you should be paying attention to this.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: New York Times, you have some egg on your face.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Whoever made the decision to include Wedgeworth Polls, they did
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: not do any digging into this organization. Just threw him
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: in there and, you know, did the, you know, polls
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: definitely determined coverage. And polls definitely, like, you know, when
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: somebody's down by 30 points, their supporters are less likely
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: to come out. So anyway, on the one hand, it's
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: kind of silly and kind of ridiculous that he's getting
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: a second time this cycle. But also kind of a
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: revelation of the fact that, like, this is what our
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: news environment has become in 2026. But, hey, I'm sure
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: they'll get this stuff worked out by 2028.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Mallory McMorrow says it was a Wedgwood poll that really
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: dried up her donor base because they had her so
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: far behind against Haley Stevens and Abdul El-Sayed. And so
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that was one of the reasons that she dropped out
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: of the race. So these fake polls did have an impact.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: I think if she had stayed in, El-Sayed probably would
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: have had an even bigger win because the anti-El-Sayed vote
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: would have been split. But it's so crazy here, Jim.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: And you're so right that polls are now seen as
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: confirming prior opinions as opposed to informing prior opinions. But
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: in this era where we have AI and data. We
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: have data on everything that right down to the microscopic
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: decimal point. It's worse than ever.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. More information than ever. And yet we know less
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: than ever.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Absolutely amazing. Jim, good to have you back. See you tomorrow.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, Greg.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Jim Garrity, National Review. I'm Greg Karumbas of Radio America.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Thanks so much for being with us today. Please be
• 32:42
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• 32:45
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• 32:48
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• 32:50
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• 32:52
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• 32:56
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• 33:00
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• 33:03
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