Latest / White Fox Talking / E94: The Mountains Within – Overcoming Fear, Bullying and the Seven Summits with Alex Nemeth

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E94: The Mountains Within – Overcoming Fear, Bullying and the Seven Summits with Alex Nemeth · White Fox Talking

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Salky Podcast.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Matt Charlie Ballanty.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: And where in the world are you, Seb?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Germany.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Germany.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_05: What are you doing in Germany?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: See my mother and my sister.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_05: Excellent.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_05: Egypt.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_05: Lovely.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_05: So this is like holiday time.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um I wouldn't classify it as a holiday.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_05: No.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: You wouldn't.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: What would you classify as a holiday?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: You've been the hardest working man in the world.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm still working.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, okay.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we need to have a word about that.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: I did notice that you didn't put a holiday slip in, actually, to see if you could have time off, which is why we're podcasting.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: But you should have a holiday.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: I should, yeah, and I will, on Sunday.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: The White Fox Talking Podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I will introduce this evening's guest.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Alexandra Nemetz.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Charlie.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to have you on.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get into this, could you give us a brief introduction for all the listeners?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, okay.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I am an international mantle leader, polo guide, and photographer based in the beautiful Swiss Alps.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: I moved here about six and a half years ago from Leafy, Wilburden Common.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in the UK for 16 happy years and during COVID.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I decided to make that big step that I had been dreaming about, moving to the Alps.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: And pretty much I haven't really turned back since then.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm a mountain person and I'm pretty much living my dream.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: So just for a bit of background, even for SERC because I don't think you know, we met on the mountain leader scheme, didn't we?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't we?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: When I was training.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you were on a very, very focused path to become a mountain leader and then get your international mountain leader, which you've done successfully.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes joke about I used to have a proper job.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to work in marketing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this transformation happened a year after I finished a big mountain project.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I still went back to my office job, but I just felt that I couldn't really, you know, I wasn't really myself.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I kept dreaming about this world of the outdoor world and perhaps becoming a guide.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um even after having finished the project, I still spent a year in that office environment, obviously dreaming about mountains and the big world for for the next year.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I rixed everything, I gave up my job, and pretty much the rest is history.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, that's that's how you and I um met Charlie, yeah, during my IML uh journey.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can I ask where that sort of came from at first?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: Was it just uh in childhood in the in the outdoors?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Or because you're you're not you're not British, are you?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: You're Hungarian, but you live in Switzerland.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I was born in Hungary, but my parents sent me to a music school, believe it or not.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um at age of six, I had to audition um in front of a panel of um teachers and uh music instructors, and I had to audition to get into that music school, you know, age of six.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I spent age between ages seven age seven and fourteen.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was in this classical music school for eight years.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was a member of a choir, and we used to go and perform all over Hungary, all over Europe, you know, traveling a lot.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, but my parents really wanted me to be, you know, head of class, so I had to study really hard as well.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: But the upside was that during winter I got to go on skiing holidays.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it wasn't just kind of the choir traveling around Europe, but it was during those skiing holidays that I got to actually experience to see a little bit more outside this bubble, outside this small country.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I have these memories of always been, you know, being on these uh coaches and buses, just always taking the window seat.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as we leave um the borders and you know, get into Slovakia or Slovenia, Austria, and seeing these big, beautiful mountains, I used to be just absolutely like fascinated by that landscape.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I often think about where it all started, but we can pretty much go back to those very, very early, early years when I used to um travel around Europe with the choir performing.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: So did you did you want to do the choir?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: Did you enjoy doing the choir?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, I did not.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't because it was something that really my parents wanted me to do.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I thank God I'm a better guide and photographer than I'm a singer.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it was eight years of suffering through with this voice in soprano.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's something, but you know, looking back, the discipline, those early years of waking up, you know, silly o'clock in the morning on a Monday or even on a Friday and going into choir practice and then doing a full day of school, and then the activities after, whether it was more choir practice or singing or playing at the piano or performing, it was all so much for a young person.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the life I knew.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And when it came to the weekends, you had to do more kind of training sessions and practicing, and we came to holidays or any time of you were again performing.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So looking back, that was my life, and that's what I knew.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: But really, that those were the early years that really hammered that discipline into me, the hardworking, those early mornings, those kind of almost like endurance style that I started living later on in my life, but already back, you know, you're you're 10 years old and you don't really have weekends or or much really much more much time off.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've got to mention that because it I mean, we exchanged messages the other day and I was saying, you know, you do you seem to be very, very busy.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then you're running a business yourself.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the the the bits that we see, the outdoor bits, and I know this myself because I really struggle with running the running business and doing the admin sort of stuff.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's not the glory side, is it?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: But you it's just it's so difficult to stay disciplined and run an outdoor business because everything you do, it's not like going to work and then finishing and coming home.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: You come home and then have to do all your admins.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: So you think that's where this work ethics come from?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, absolutely for sure.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And also I had a a huge chunk that I was the client, I was the guest.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So after having studied in Hungary, then I went to a prestigious high school because, again, that's what my parents wanted me to do.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I came to the UK, and that was really my way to kind of experience like the world outside of what um society or what the community or my parents wanted me to do.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I really felt like I became the person I am today thanks to that time and space I had in the UK and that kind of journey that I ended up going by myself on my own.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And as you know, I used to work in marketing, I joke about it, I used to have a proper job.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: But again, you know, having that job was again somewhere where I learned so much of the creativity, so much of the business side.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have a degree in economics.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I don't regret that part of my life because I learned so much.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I do wish I have gotten into the outdoor worlds, you know, into guiding or racing mountain bikes uh a little bit earlier.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I think it's never late to change your life and never it's never late to change careers or something different that maybe, you know, your close circle society might not agree with because that's exactly what I did.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is how I ended up, you know, living in in the Swiss apps.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: So can I the the photography, how did you get into that?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's I I think photography for myself, although I'm an opt-photographer, it's the focus that I'd be interested in from a so you know, from a where I have a mental health, mental well-being side.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, some of the places you go, if anyone is uh, we'll we'll put some links on later.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway, you know, some of the photographs you take are absolutely stunning.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: For you, you taking them photographs?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was asked when when I was still at high school, my parents asked me, you know, when you finish high school, then your friends and family, there's a big gathering, there's a big celebration, and they give you some pocket money.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they asked me, What do you think you're gonna spend that money on?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And without hesitation, I said, I want to buy a camera.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And back then, not sounding that we are too old, but back then film cameras were the thing.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up buying my first uh film camera, and maybe it was a little bit of um escaping into nature uh with something that I could experiment with, something that I could learn from, and I could see the world uh through a very different angle, and I could be myself and I could really just be where I wanted to be.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe now, you know, having asked this question the first time, actually, you know, where the photography journey started, again, I could tell you that I quit my job in marketing and I went to the Himalayas, and I took my camera, and I took this picture of the sun, you know, coming up over Everest.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But now thinking about it, it does go back even further back in into my younger years, buying that the film camera.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But then your life journey, you know, takes a complete different turn, and you end up going to high school and university and and your first corporate job and climbing up the ladder.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember having climbed that ladder already and and traveling around the world with my job.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hang on a second, I need to breathe.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I quit that very successful, it wasn't very successful, but it was a job that I really, really enjoyed in marketing.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing I did was going back to photography, you know, buying my first digital camera, um, or serious digital camera, grabbing the camera and then, you know, flying out to Kathmandu and going on this three-week solo track in the Himalayas.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, at the time, it I didn't even think about it twice.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: It really felt natural and it really felt something almost like a comfort thing to, okay, I've got a camera again, and I'm just gonna go out and in enjoy perhaps slightly bigger landscape and slightly, you know, an unknown.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I guess maybe that's where the seed was planted as well, you know, hiking up to the Gokio lakes over the the Chola Pass and dropping down to Base Camp and looking up at these huge mountains, thinking, you know, you feel uh you feel so tiny, and I love that feeling so much.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I flew back to London, I flew back to the UK, I'm like, this is it.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I want to do more photography.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And naturally my my style, my photography grew from that point.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to pursue this career that before I thought it was a hobby, and then now I'm I'm thinking, hey, that there could be a career in it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And just because I have very, very little patience, I would go up to the Scottish Mountains, I would go up to the Kangoms, I would come over to the Alps and trying to find my style in landscape, realizing that hang on a second, if you're in this sort of environment, you should probably know a little bit more about how to be safe.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, what shall I do?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps I should go on a training course.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up on this one-on-one training course in the Scottish Mountains in the winter, and we were up in the wintry, you know, mountains for three days, just the guide and myself.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this was around February time, and I went back to London and I said to Nick, my flatmate, my best friend, I said to Nick, I said, listen, I think I want to do a project, I think I want to do a challenge that's gonna push me and test me as a human, but also as a photographer as well.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how the Seven Summits challenge was born to climb the the highest mountain on every continent.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I was I was building up to that, yeah, because you mentioned a few things about the photography and then getting into the mountains.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Getting into the mountains, but then uh just to explain, yeah, like you've just said, it's you know the highest summit on each continent.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's where that that was born then, from the from a Scottish winter.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just like that, exactly.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, for anyone, for anyone listening, not aware, Scottish winter can be quite brutal.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Very brutal.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot going on.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot going on in a Scottish winter.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, you know, it's it's just the way the weather can change so quickly.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you think there are colder places in the world, but probably not cold and wet.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then, you know, not only the idea was born there, but I ended up going back to back to the Kangombs and actually over to the Brecken Beacons, you know, Snowden as well, because I realized, hey, if it was a good training ground for the early explorers and mountaineers, it's gonna be good enough for Alex as well.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it proved to be, you know, a training ground that I learned so much from.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these these mountain ranges in the UK, they are wild.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, Charlie, the weather can change like in in a split second, and that's exactly what you need when you're training and preparing for the big mountains and these these big expeditions.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually had the perfect training ground in the UK.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think like I say, winter, winter again, winter Scotland.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you you tend not to be surprised by anything else where you when you go anywhere else, you're not surprised because you know that there's something coming around the corner in Scotland.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Over it now.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: So the uh the seven summits, how long after realizing you wanted to do that did that begin?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: And did you did you set out with seven summits, I'm gonna do seven summits, or did you set off I'm gonna do one?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I throw myself into challenges and I probably throw myself into things that I may not be qualified for or prepared for, but that's kind of my way of throwing myself into the deep end and say, This is what I wanna do, and I'm gonna figure out the rest along the way.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So on that very cold, ankle evening um in 2014, I said to Nick, hey, you know, laptop on my lap, and um Nick is just you know finishing doing the washing up after dinner.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Nick, I've I think I found it.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's gonna be the seven summits.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I read out all the mountains to him, and I I left, I kept Everest till last.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, well, that the last will be Everest.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: It will be, you know, potentially going to climb and photograph Everest.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this was April.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And two months later, I was on the summit of um Mount Everest, uh, Europe's highest mountain.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it after that, it was just one after another.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I realized that Elbrus perhaps wasn't the experience that I imagined it would be because it was white out, it was really difficult.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: We were on the north side and we're preseason.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, this sort of addiction that you get from throwing yourself in the deep end and working really, training really hard for it, working for that experience, being there and coming back and you think, I I just want to keep going.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, two months after the idea was born, I was on the summit of the first one.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: How long did all the set summits take for you?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_05: Did you do it like in a year or I mean, because it sounds like you had the bug and you you know finishing one, you wanted to go straight out to do the next one?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that's a great question.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, that cold April evening when I dreamt of this project, I sat to think that look, you know, that the way to actually do this is not only to go from the nearby mountains to more and more far away, but you have to build it up, you know, you have to start and climb higher, further away, more and more colder places.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I did want to leave Everest still lost because I wanted to give every single mountain that respect that, hey, I'm gonna get to that next point and be completely, not completely, but but planned and and prepared for it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And as as much as, you know, I wish I could say, hey, I did it in a record pace of how many months, it wasn't like that because I was so new to this world and I had so much to learn.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also financially, you know, going to even just going to Russia in the Caucasus to do Albrus, it's taking time off work and spending time on the expedition and coming back and straight back to work.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I built it up in a way that I could progress from one to another, but also these mountains are in seven corners of the world, and they have their own weather systems, they have their own weather windows and climates.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I very consciously built this journey, knowing what could follow another one.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that, you know, I still need to learn a lot, I still need to raise an awful lot of funds.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up, to answer a question, I ended up climbing them all in just under four years.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I probably could have done Everest the year before, but I'm so glad I didn't.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everything works out the way it does, and I needed a little bit more time to raise money.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I also needed another year to kind of mature and get some more experiences.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, just under four years.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, for anyone that's listening, watching, that's not aware, that you don't just go and walk up the mountain.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, it's not like going and walking up my Nevis or Snowden or something like that.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the time, you know, the time can be quite extended because of altitude and getting used to it and the training.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: So how did you how did you did you had you done much altitude stuff before?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not really.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was really my first experience at high altitude when I went to the Himalayas after quitting my corporate job and just exposing myself to high altitude, and that was the first time when I remember looking at that, my fingers, and they were swollen, and you know, taking Dymocks, and it was giving me all these like crazy nightmares and and as side effects.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I really learned, you know, when we say you learn on your own skin, I really, really did during the three-week track, this this high altitude track.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, you realize, hang on, I need to do some research.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need to learn.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, building it up, building up the seven summits meant that whatever I experienced on Elbrus, the June 2014, I could bring that experience into the next mountain.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt that I learned something.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there were other challenges and hurdles on the next one and the one following, but you keep learning and you keep piecing the you know, placing the puzzle pieces together.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: So at any point on this journey, and it's a bit of a drawing question, really, because I I know I've I've uh I was reading some things and listened to something, and you're talking about fear and facing them fears now.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose it's a natural, it would be natural to face fear also on you know, there's a reason it's a big challenge, the seven summits.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things can go wrong.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: People do lose their lives on these mountains.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: On the ones that you would say were the easier mountains, then you know, people still lose a lose lives.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: What sort of things did you find that you feared?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And or was there some trepidation?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: And how did you overcome that?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: So looking back at that journey and not just, you know, their four years, but my my life before and since, um, it was only when I really started writing the book and kind of digging into my past and digging into all the all the feelings of what I had been through, there were two very distinctive areas.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And one was something that you might not even guess because people like, oh, you were there, you're gonna be cold and you're gonna get ill, or you know, you're gonna get swept by a novel and fall down the mountain.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And none of that was something I feared.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I was bullied when I was young.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was bullied by girls my age, and I didn't realize just how much that affected me and impacted the rest of my life.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: But my biggest fear was every single expedition, I did it with a different company, with a different group of people.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, are they gonna like me?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Are they going to accept me?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna bully me?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna push me out of the team?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are they um am I gonna be part of that gang, you know, the the expedition climbing mountaineering gang?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one of my biggest fears is am I gonna be accepted within the group?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just because I had been bullied when when I was young.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps this is why I became the um extrovert, introvert I still am today.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: That I really much prefer my own company and and being alone, although, you know, being a guide again, just kind of you know, being with people for very, very different reasons.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that was definitely one side, kind of a more psychological, emotional challenge uh that I had throughout.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: The throughout the entire project.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the other one was maybe some of your listeners would probably have had that, or maybe they do have fear of heights.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So again, having fear is so connected to the actual challenge, thinking, do you know what?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to face this and I'm going to put myself in situations and I'm going to put myself on mountains that they're not all going to be, you know, snowy, dormy, icy peaks.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: There will be some rock climbing involved.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: There will be some exposures involved.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I figured that the seven summits would be such an amazing challenge because it's there's such a variety of mountains and seven different corners of the world.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that every single mountain needed its own preparation and respect.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved that, how I would get to, you know, Carson's Pyramid.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would have had to go to indoor climbing gym near Wimbledon in Kingston.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I used to go there.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I climbed the Matterhorn.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I really wanted to face the fear, expose myself to, you know, to places like otherwise I wouldn't have got.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't for the Seven Summits, I really wouldn't have climbed the Matterhorn or any of these very steep rock faces that I was just fearing, yeah, and uh and and worried about.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, kind of facing, facing the fears.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: So on that seven, on the seven summits journey, did you have any points where you thought and then related to the heights?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'll come back.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: I want to come back to the bullying if I can, because I think that's important.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um coming back to the height thing, because this is a this is a natural fear that a lot of people have.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: So was there any points on that where you thought, I can't do this?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um probably, do you know, interestingly, I was so dedicated to the actual training, to the actual preparation, that I made this as a goal that I would train harder or I would train as hard as I can.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when I do end up on the exhibition, when I do end up on the mountain, I don't want to let my team down.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to let my guy down.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to let myself down.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to expose myself to harder and scarier things before I actually go to the mountain.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, for sure, you know, being on Carsus Pyramid and it's it's it's a scrub.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Some people, my call you rock camp, some people, you know, it's just a bit of scrambling.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And but you're still on a very steep rock face that I just really wasn't familiar with or confident at.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, the whole preparation, again, just talking about that, not just the physical, but the mental preparation.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember having like a weekend off, and I took myself to the Bracken Beacons again, had a guide uh who we spent, you know, that weekend on the rock and just having a person there who is a professional and they know how to deal with a nervous person.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because now I'm a guide and I now do the same with my guests, and I'm there, I I hold their hands, I talk them through.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And how life, you know, is done a 360 is incredible.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: But but at the time I was the one who needed their their hand to be held and needed to be talked through a rage and needed to be distracted or brought into that that moment.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's why I'm the guide I am today, because I had been through all that, you know, through thro through the Seven Summits journey.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I 100% agree with you with it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not just about the Seven Summits thing, because obviously I've not done that.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: But the thing about the thing is the lived experience, for me, that lived experience is so important.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: We can learn what we learn out of textbooks and from other people, but that lived experience of overcoming your own fears.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I remember one of my first courses where I was on Trivan um on a scrambling course with my with my goodmate Rob Johnson and my my mate Rhett, uh, who's sadly no longer with us, but and having a laugh and a joke, and then the cloud opened up, and you're looking down into Ogwin Valley, I'm like, oh, I'm quite high here, you know, and it but it's one of them, isn't it?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: If you if you fall off, then it's not gonna it's not gonna be great.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: But then again, if you fall off, you know, fall off a step ladder, it's not gonna be great.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd rather fall off somewhere like that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think Charlie, you know, having experienced this now, us being guides, we know what our guests go through.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we we feel that fear because we had once been through that.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: We felt it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: We felt it on our skin.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: We we had our heart rate, you know, uh our heart breathing through our chest.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then now, of course, we are guides and we're more confident, we have qualifications and the years behind us.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: But when you are with people who you used to be or what we experienced, I think we are a lot more ethical, you know, we're a lot more understanding perhaps of uh what what they what they go are going through.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you can definitely describe it in their terms, I think.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: But this could be anything, couldn't it?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: It could be any sort of fear where like I say, it's not it's not irrational to have a fear of heart.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_05: So now that you've done everything, do you feel fearless?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: Or is there still a bit of fear in you?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, I've become a lot more cautious and a lot more careful.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not only having those several summits, but you know, having, you know, being a guide now, I feel that I perhaps take less risks and I would be maybe up on a ridge or doing, you know, project on my own.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, do you know what?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: We can do it another time.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I would push myself until I feel that you know I can do it, perhaps a little bit beyond that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: But these days I perhaps take less risks than I than I used to.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_05: Is that because you're maybe more conscious about the consequences?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, Charlie, how are you?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are you taking less or more risks these days?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in life or in the mountains.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be honest, yeah.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't know because I I got quite into my Well, so when I was when I was teaching, when I was doing MLs, I'd have my three C's, which were what were the contours and consequences and what's the other one?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can't remember them now.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: But consequences is the big one, isn't it?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, there's a risk to what we do.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose this is anything.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's a risk to what we do and how we do it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it m makes a makes a difference.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the consequences, and is it actually worth it?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because I've gone out, I've gone and done stuff by myself, and then afterwards thought, oh, I probably shouldn't have done that, you know.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that's in all sorts all sort of areas, but that's part of the learning, and I don't want to get into the sort of Darwinian thing that, well, okay, you know, that's why some people I just I do think it's the more aware you come become, uh, then also the more cautious you can become, uh or or you're aware of when to be cautious, yeah, and switch on to things.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, without without going down one of my rabbit holes, said, you know, this thing with the you know these TikTokers and Instagramers out doing stuff, and then next thing you've seen someone's fallen off fallen off somewhere, and it's probably because they've they've gone straight to doing something, and their their goals is not to complete that route or anything, it's to get a good photograph.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah I mean, and they're not tuned into everything else.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a learning curve, and people unfortunately people do lose their lives every year, but while they're on that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if we go back to right before the podcast started and where it came from when I did the film with Rob Johnson, the White Fox, and I don't think anyone else had ever got me doing that film actually.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Rob had me we're out on Crib Gok in North Wales, and I was just talking, and it's you know, something came out there and it was just like in fact it must this must be this m this is the universe moving in a s a different way because I actually put changed it to my profile picture the other day, and it's like you know, the the mountains j don't judge you, and what I said on that, and it just came to you was but we must respect the mountains because the mountains, if you don't respect them, they'll bite you in the ass, yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And if you if you get a if you get bitten in the ass by a mountain and you get away with it, then you've done well, haven't you?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um during the seven summits, I was really proud of having climbed them all on my first attempt.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there was one particular mountain, Amodablum, in the Himalayas, that was the very last step before Everest.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I went out there again just to, you know, you know, experience that exposure, be be up in the high mountains, be surrounded by, you know, the 700, 8,000 meter peaks, and learn something.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And what I learned there on Amadablam is I had not learned on any other mountains because that's the only mountain till today I hadn't summited on my first attempt.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you actually learn a lot more from, and I wouldn't even call it a failure, because a failure would have been if I was brought down on a long line with a helicopter, you know, uh in a bag.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't failure.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did come back.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't summit that mountain, but for sure, you know, having learned a lot more from that from that experience.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that was perhaps quite crucial to also be part of the Seven Summits journey, even though it's not one of the seven summits, but it was a training mountain for me.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: But to see that the consequences and to see that when the weather turns, when you are not with a team that supports you, when you don't have uh the right gear because the company advised you not to bring all those things, and you end up like, hey, you talk like I and and all these things, just a huge learning curve to to be on that mountain, to be on that expedition and not submitting that particular mountain dur during the journey.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was also very important uh for me.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: So if was have there been any moments where you've been sort of gripped?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's the sort of term we use in the outdoors.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've I was gripped.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I've had that on when I've been rock climbing, and I've been on a rope, or I've had some gearing, so you know that if you've gonna f if you fall, you're gonna fall a bit, but you should be you should live.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: You should be okay, you know.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: So and it's just that thing about making that move and and it's only natural for your mind to be, you know, someone were talking to someone recently about climbing, and they're like oh, where do you go and stuff like I said, well, I love Morocco, you know, because you know it's just this emptiness and these massive, you know, eight, seven, eight pitches at the end of the day, but the thing in the back of your mind is which we don't have here, is if you come off there, you've got to you've got to look after yourself.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: There's no one coming for you, which we've got that safety net here.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: So in them moments and you sort of grip to you thinking, I need to go for this move, I'll do some go into some breathing or go into a you know, just concentrate and think, well, I've done this before, I can do this.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Have you do you use anything, any techniques or definitely I I say that the the brain is an incredible muscle, and me having fear of heights, you know, I realize that unless I expose myself, unless I go to places where I I really, you know, practically shit my pants, I'm not gonna learn and I'm not gonna get better, and I'm not gonna be able to move on from that fear.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So of course there were points, you know, climbing the Matterhorn when I was thinking, what am I doing here?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this like local Swiss guy, we you know, we come down and he's like shouting at me to go faster.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, way, you know, I'm just trying to like figure out where I'm gonna put my, you know, the the the next two.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely there were moments where I was definitely questioning whether this was even for me, whether I wanted to be there.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I realized that if these steps, these mountains, like Karsten's pyramid of the seven summits, which is rock climb, if it wasn't part of that journey, I would have never faced my fears of exposed terrain.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, on Carson's, I remember, you know, you don't climb the actual peak, climb the rock next to it, and you you come up to a place called uh Tyrole and Traverse.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've done all the research and watched all the YouTube videos, how are you gonna get from one peak to another?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, back then they would pull themselves across in a piece of rope, and you go 4,000 meters below you.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember getting there, I was in a team of six, there were five other guys, and I was the only female, and the two guides must have seen me kind of enjoying that journey.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they're like, yeah, yeah, you you can go up, but just wait for us at the Tyrone Traverse, which I did.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember getting to the other side and knowing that um the summit was within reach.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, hang on, Alex, you have to do the same all the way back as well to get back to Boom Scamp.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So again, going back to that muscle memory, that brain, you know, having done it once, you do it again, you're still scared, but doing again, you're gonna be a little bit less scared.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: And on Everest, um, we face this 40-foot wall between camp one and camp two.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And due to the previous um, due to the the earth moving and an earthquake, 2018 was the first time when you had this vertical wall between camp one and camp two.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember getting there the first time, which I didn't know about.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got this wall and you're at already at altitude, you're tired, and you're going up this vertical wall again.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: I am not confident doing that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: But going up the first time, and you have to do the rotations, going up the first time, I was furious.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this wasn't in the contract, I don't want to do this.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you go up the first time and you get the sense of satisfaction, and you do the second rotation, and you're like, hey, I remember when I placed my foot there and I had the really good, I could then, you know, remembering that that moment of, hey, I've done it before, I can do it again.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the next time you do it faster, better, easier, you flow better as well.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: You feel like, hey, actually, now I've got a much better move up here on this on this icy wall.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that, and not just you know, doing these sort of things, but in life, that is so important to kind of keep going back and keep just practicing and keep facing that thing because you are only just gonna get better and better at it.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I have this thing about moving people's parameters slightly.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's when you make a massive jump that people are gonna just go, no.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: But if you move them slightly, you know, in front of what they've done, then they've had a great adventure.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and you know, going back to the outdoor world and taking people out there would be you know, if you get especially with young people, uh you take somebody out that's not ever rock climbed, and you turn to take them on a little maybe it's not even a scramble, it's but they put their hands on rock and they you know, it's that person that goes home and tells the parents or whatever that yeah, I've been out, I've been rock climbing and I love it, you know.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas if you drag them up a rag a rock climb, they may not enjoy it.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: So it's that, you know, and that and like you say, it's that memory and your brain sort of not getting as or your body not going straight into that panic.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: And controlling it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like I say, with the rock climbing sometimes where you've got to do a step or something, you're thinking, I don't like this.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think I've probably done worse before.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: You need to remember, hey, I've been through this before.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: What did I use?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: What did I do?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what techniques did I use?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, us being guides, I really much appreciate those guides who were there by my side and they supported me in a positive way because they they made me feel that I could do it.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: And without knowing, I'm probably doing the same with my guests these days, that even though you know we look up a mountain and we are snowshoes and we look up a 3,000 meter peak, you know, in in the wintry ups, you know, like we're going up there, and I know exactly how to break it down.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know exactly how to help them mentally to get up there.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I'm really grateful that I had some great mentors, some great guides, and including you, Charlie, who were there, some very special and perhaps um difficult times uh to to guide me through and to to help you through um yeah, those times, yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Could I go back to the bullying?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Would you mind?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think that's really interesting.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think we find it can go a couple of different ways, Kai, with bullying.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: But it seems like yours has been well, I suppose we had that thing here, that struggling with a fear of acceptance.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: But also, how much how much of your drive do you think came from bullying?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, that is such a good point.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's even like in the first chapter of my book, because that is probably the drive that was that I'm not I'm gonna prove myself that I can do something that you lot, you know, don't even expect me to do or trying to stop me uh from doing.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: And definitely, you know, when you are pushed out of a friendship circle and you then in your own little world, you definitely start looking at things a little bit differently.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that means that you start depending on yourself a lot more, perhaps than a group of people that, oh, they're gonna get you out of trouble or they're gonna help you through this and that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: But when you are suddenly find yourself by yourself, it's really you who have to depend on.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think that was definitely a huge driving force that early on I learned that I can do things.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because I ended up with the I ended up going into them doing the mountain thing after, you know, year work I was quite late, but because of the PTSD, and I found it a better found, you know, that I'd gone through all that.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'd spent a lot of time by myself because of all the man the fuck up.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, you know, the man the fuck up at the art at the time, and I did spend a lot of time by myself.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's a bad thing to be fair.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Or it wasn't for me.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think everyone's individual, and I don't think it was a bad thing for me because yeah, you're just finding and sort of settling in your own mind, aren't you?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Trying to sort them on out, them internal arguments and them internal voices that are we have unfortunately we have to spend time with them, otherwise we uh end up suffering with them.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, going back to something we we we brought up before that us having gone through these experiences, I can already see the happening.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in my off season, I work as a polar expedition guide in the Arctic and the Antarctic, and when I see that happening within the team, I I stand up.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I stand up for people.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I stand up for myself, but I stand up for anyone who I can see being bullied.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can see that unfolding, I can see the happening.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: So not only when we were, you know, teenagers, unfortunately, it didn't, you know, that is still happening in the world these days and in office environments, you know, Charlie, it's not just you and I in the outdoors, in the mountains.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's happening at everywhere and anywhere.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when I do see that, somebody who had been through it, I'm a lot more like, hey, we we need to solve this because we are those and somebody's suffering.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I really, really hate to see that happening to someone else.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So perhaps, you know, you and I have been through different life challenges, but I think we now can see if that's right in front of us.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe not even right in front of us, but what's happening around us.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel that we are perhaps a lot more able to help that person or that that situation.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: You work with so many people, you must have seen so much that perhaps you've been through in your life that you see something similar in um in in others that maybe they are going through or struggling with currently.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think, do you know what?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think I'm what I went on an expedition oh early in 2002 to Belize, and that's a hard, hard environment in the jungle.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: And there was only three of us.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: What I came back with from there was how how you sometimes struggle with your own mindset and your mind tells you things that are going on and they're not going on.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think expeditions, when you're living, you know, when you're living closely with people and there's a group of you for an extended period of time, then relationships can be changed, or they might not be changing, but you think they're changing, and this can lead into mood swear.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to do psychology expeditions and how they change, you know, and but I think having that awareness that it's it could be your perception, you know, because I've it's one of them where spoil or ruin an expedition by somebody getting wrapped up in something or something actually happened, and some people not knowing what they're doing, you know, and no awareness.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um I would and I will admit there is still a lot of that sort of mature thing in expeditions and outdoor world, and you know what I mean?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: So where people aren't aware of what their actions are, which that can affect other people negatively.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: So regarding your doubts of uh acceptance, you know, that you mentioned come from bullying.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_05: Do you think after completing the seven summits, did you feel different about yourself or were there some old doubts still there?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it has it completely gone?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think Sab, I don't think it will ever be gone completely.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is something that left a very deep mark in my in me.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if you learn to live with it and if you perhaps Perhaps turn it around that actually can be something quite positive, and perhaps me becoming a guide was a reason.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: The acceptance part definitely changed a lot when I finished the summer summits.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the first thing I did.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: I went I flew back to I think I summited on a Friday or on Saturday.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I flew back to Kathmandu on a Sunday and I jumped on the flight directly back to London.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: So within like days, I was back in Wimbledon and called my damn boss saying, Hey, can I come back to work?
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: To which she said, absolutely no way.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Take another week off.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I went back to kind of normal life.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: I turned my phone off for a week because having finished the seven summits, I became the first ever Hungarian to, you know, ever climb the seven summits.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured that I needed just a little bit of time to kind of process that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I really didn't want the media to ruin that feeling and experience of, hey, I just spent my lot like the last four years, you know, on this.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now everybody wants a piece of me.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually took, you know, a couple of days off.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: I turned my phone off.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized that using now this to share my story and to inspire is a big word.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, you know, use that big word, but perhaps to, you know, share the story and say, hey, what I wasn't mountaineer, I wasn't born into a mountaineering family or wasn't born in the mountains, but I still had a dream, a goal, and and I went after it.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a dream and a goal, you can go after it as well.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: So again, turning that acceptance, turning that bullying, turning this big challenge into something that's much bigger than me was something that I realized I could do after the challenge was what was like Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: After doing the seven summits and after just after like your polar stuff, when you come back, how does that affect you?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because I find, oh, I'd been away for quite a while now, but what I found when I was going away and going away on these trips, I'd come back and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's because I just love being in the outdoors or I remember I very clearly and vividly remember coming, going back to Wimbledon, and yeah, as I said, I jumped back on my bike and I kept doing laps around Richmond Park, just something, you know, just exactly what I was doing before, just like back to normal.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then people around me started telling me that's you know, it's no longer normal.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: What you just done is no longer normal.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I was hanging on to that feeling of, hey, I've just done a challenge, finished, done, I'm back.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And me going back to the office, and this is something that we really started at the beginning of this chat, as me going back to the office, and like thinking, I don't know if I belong here anymore.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not because I thought it was someone else, it's because that my mind was constantly on, you know, putting roots together, like linking groups together, coming up with other challenges, like, hey, you know, I had guides.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Could I become a guide?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So suddenly I was exposed to this whole new world of outdoors and potentially a new career as well.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it took me a year, actually, and normally, as you by now you know me, I would just throw myself into something crazy.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it took me a year in the office to realize, you know, that world that marketing creative has still much I love doing that, you know, being a photographer and the drum pilot and building my website and you know, creating flyers and all that.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is still part of me.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: But there was a little bit inside me thinking, I think there's a really big world out there that I just had a glimpse of.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I would really love to see if if if if I can make it work, if I could be part of that outdoor world.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think with you coming back to your photography then?
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think that when you're sharing some of the images and the out amazing of these places you're going to, is that you sort of sharing these for the purposes of other people?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because there is a there is a massive world out there that a lot of people are don't see?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good question.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, going back to the summer summits that, you know, was born as me being a photographer and wanting to expose myself to like these remote spots so I can take better photos.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to do the summer summits specifically to take photos of these mountains so I can bring them back.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, these, you know, these pictures and show them to people who will never have a chance to go to the seven continents of the world.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it really was born from like a creative um photography idea that I wanted to share these pictures of seven completely different-looking mountains with a much wider audience.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I, we don't have to get the violin out, but for the Everest uh expedition, I had to sell my entire camera gear down to the lost memory card because it's a very, very expensive expedition.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And by that point, you know, you work, you earn, you save up, and you spend it on an expedition, and then another one, and this kind of vicious circle of never really been able to recover financially.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly you have this huge financial burden of paying tens of thousands of dollars, pounds to attempt to climb Everest.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember I promised myself, I said, Alex, you come back from Everest, and if you come back with all your fingers and toes, and you successfully, you know, you finish the challenge, you get back on your feet financially, and you gotta get another camera.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: And and I did, you know, it took a number of years for me becoming a guide, saving up again, moving here, getting into the the polar expedition world, starting working as a photographer again.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: But when I picked up that camera, you know, when I bought my new camera, it felt, guys, it felt so good.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yes, I'm holding something.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just gone, you know, my life has gone 360.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm holding a camera that was back in the days in 2014, was the reason I actually got into the seven summits, got into guiding, and and here I am now.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I can thank so much to photography and so much to my curiosity of trying to climb these mountains as a photographer and trying to push myself as a photographer into these like crazy, crazy environments.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, just being able to be a photographer again, you know, earning money and and taking pictures of you know polo bears on ice or you know, beautiful mountain landscape in Antarctica, or in fact here, or shooting for brands, you know, it's like it it just feels really good, and I will never take it for granted, for sure.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_05: Sounds like a full circle completion.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well done on that, yeah.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's it's great what you've great what you have done and what you have achieved.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have any tips for anyone that's probably suffering bullying or suffered bullying?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Let's not that you know, that's it's not just a suffering, it's it's one of them where it can have effects further on in life.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: What would your sort of tips be from that?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: My tip would be talking about it.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I because it was in my closest circle, literally, like when you know, when I was born, I was put into a crib next to a girl that 14 years later, you know, became my best friend and also ended up bullying me.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't talk to my closest circle because there was the ringleader and she was the one bullying me.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: And she um had such an impact on the rest of the group that nobody really stood by my side.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, okay, who else am I gonna go to?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: I felt really embarrassed to speak with my parents.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know if they could understand me.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there is somebody, you know, within your um family or friendship group that will be there for you.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you trust the person to talk to, it doesn't matter if you're young, if you're middle-aged, it doesn't matter what age you are.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to open up.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I know that if I had opened up, um perhaps quite a few of my bullyings or experiences might have been a little bit different, but I kept it to myself.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that I could deal with it.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, it was much bigger than I could have really handled at the time.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: But for sure, talking to either friends or family who you trust or a professional.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think these days we are so lucky, you know, we we can listen to amazing podcasts, amazing hosts, amazing people, we can reach out to professionals, we can call um, you know, numbers that we know that there's somebody at the other end of the line who will be who who will listen to us.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, definitely like don't try to deal with it by yourself, reach out and and and talk about it.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: In my own mind, 100% correct, because I think we when we internalize things, we just keep we're we're fighting our, you know, these devil and the angel on each on each side.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_03: Which isn't always ideal.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then the other one was any tips for anyone that would be facing fears?
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I suppose the fear me maybe not just with the conversation we've just had, not not just the fear of your fear of heights, but this fear of stepping away from a successful career to go do something which is totally different out of the corporate area into adventure and adventure photography.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: But now an author, then yeah, have you any tips on that?
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that like start small, you know, if if it's perhaps about, you know, going on adventures, maybe you could grab a tent and pitch the tent somewhere that, you know, up on a up on a peak or uh somewhere that maybe you can see your house or your village and then start from there.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're already, you know, doing something amazing for your mental and physical health and well-being, and start from there, and then start kind of building that up, you know, look back and see, oh, what what what what did I, we know what went wrong, what went well, what could I maybe change next time?
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're gonna get more and more into it and more and more sort of tuned in with what you are kind of planning to do.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: But definitely for me, you know, whether the seven summits or not, but it really worked that I went from step to, you know, one step at a time, and I kept building myself, my my physical self, my emotional and and mental being, but also exposing myself to the world and more and more remote, more and more cool places and high places.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: So take it uh a step at a time.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: I am, as I mentioned before, I'm quite a quite an introvert.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I I used to do, I used to be on this journey by myself.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're somebody who wants to share with someone, um, then maybe grab a friend or maybe join a club or maybe go on kind of guided trips because you can benefit so much from someone by your side who is a professional who knows how to handle certain situations and your learning will be so much faster, you know, than if you were maybe by yourself.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: It might take a little bit longer, perhaps.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have somebody by your side who is a professional or more experienced, then lead into them, their experience, leading to their and and learn from them.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think that would be my tip.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Spot on, I think.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: So what's next?
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: What's next on the agenda?
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's next on the agenda?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: So right now um I am kind of you know building my business, but um no longer just in the Alps, in the Swiss Alps, but I put together um exciting, well, exciting for me.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's exciting for uh for my group and for my guests, you know, in places like uh the Cordillera Blanca in the Peruvian Andes.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing kind of polar ski crossings when I can, you know, help with people kind of on multi-day tracks when we pull a pulka and we have to set up, you know, tents on glaciers.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I do an awful lot of preparations and training for, you know, whether you're a marathon trainer, you're you know, planning to trek, uh climb Kilimanjar or Mont Blanc.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: I have the perfect training ground here um in the arts to help people kind of overcoming fears or training them mentally, physically, emotionally.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I do a little bit of that.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have a personal project as well that I'm hoping to talk to you about perhaps in a in a future episode.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but now I need to I need to show that hey, I can actually, I'm not gonna kill myself, you know, I'm I'm actually gonna be able to do this.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to be able to be in the position kind of financially when I can just say, okay, this is the year when I can now do it, uh, do this project.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this project is again just gonna hopefully challenge me, challenge me as a as a human.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um since this is now my life as well, I will be using that personal project in the future as well to be kind of taking guests uh through that journey.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: But first I want to experience myself.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want to throw myself yet again into something crazy and see how it is.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, definitely firmly staying in the mountains, in the polo world, you know, snowy, icy regions and an environment, because that's where I'm I'm the happiest.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't sound that doesn't sound very fair that you're you're gonna give us that little bit of information.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of a teasing there.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I've known you since you did your ML training and then your ML assessment and then International Mountain Leader and all this, and now you're now you you've just given us little bits of information.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right, we'll we'll have to have words, we'll have to have words off air.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_03: And where can people find you?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, we should talk about your book actually, because you did bring you've got a book beyond seven summits.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: I do, yeah, just briefly.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote this book um because I wanted to put you know all the things I learned um into book, and I dedicated a chapter to each of the seven summits, and I wrote it kind of chronologically, and I journaled uh throughout the whole experience.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: So pretty much 70% of the book is from those notes, from those diary entries, those emails um back to Nick, like you know, explaining what happened, what I've been experiencing, seeing, going through.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to do that, but also I wanted to dedicate each chapter to talk about the mountains.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: I just like with my photography nowadays.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want with the book, I wanted to bring those mountains again closer to people to be able to learn about them and and and make these mountains exciting and and interesting.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's pegged with a bunch of tips and you know lessons I learned and some photos, and not photos that you would probably expect from a photographer, but more like the behind-the-scene pictures.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's that's the book.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you've got the and you've got a website which we can you want you can read that out if you want.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's alex number seven summits.com and on Instagram, same handle AlexA-L-E-X number seven summits.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: So Alex7 Summits.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we will put them in the show notes, I think the called out the same after after 90 odd episodes.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: I actually get it right, get it correct.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for that, Alex.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's been really good.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Charlie said, you've been great.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for um you know, for this platform and offering a safe and fun place and environment.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: And Charlie, thank you so much.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because if it wasn't for you, I probably wouldn't be here.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I'm sure you would.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure you would, I'm sure you've got the drive.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wet windy nights in the lake districts.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure that's that inspiring, is it?
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I would call it another full circle moment.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's funny enough, full circle is the name of my nature therapy company.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: Side thing, yeah, full full circle nature therapy.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: So there we have it.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you very much.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, guys.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Take care.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: Bye bye.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if you would like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to buy us a coffee or you can click that on now our website, whitefoxtalking.com, and look for the little comment.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.