Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Charlie Kirk Assassin "Furry" Lover's DNA on "Gun Towel," Claim

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Charlie Kirk Assassin "Furry" Lover's DNA on "Gun Towel," Claim · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bombshell.
• 0:00
  Speaker 2: Tonight, straight out of the Charlie Kirk Assassin Hearings, the
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: so called assassin's furry lovers DNA on the gun towel.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: According to claims, Wait a minute, we learned that the
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: long gun allegedly used in the shooting of Charlie Kirk
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: was covered with a towel likely drenched with DNA. Now
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: we learn that DNA allegedly belongs to the defendant, Tyler
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Robinson's roommate, Mail roommate. The DNA is his roommates. As tonight,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: another defense attorney's dream comes true.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: A mystery mixture.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Of DNA on the so called gun towel, the towel
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: that was to drape the alleged murder weapon. Mystery DNA
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: on it, that brings up the specter of another shooter.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Good evening, I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: There was video being shown in the hearing of Charlie
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Kirk being shot.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: The defendant, Tyler Robinson was smirking and laughing, and a
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: few feet away, mister Kirk's widow, Erica was sobbing.
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: You know what's funny?
• 1:38
  Speaker 5: Do you find this funny.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's dead body shot through the neck.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Was there a screwdriver that was collected from that rooftop?
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Is there a wooded area that's northeast of campus.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: What was found in that wooded area?
• 1:54
  Speaker 6: Well, it was found there was a long gun that
• 1:57
  Speaker 6: was wrapped in a dark colored towel.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: So the gun went to the ATF lab. Is that correct? Yes,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: the towel went to the FBI lab. Yes, And the
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: screwdriver went to the FBI lab.
• 2:09
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Did you receive reports back from testing that had been
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: done on those items?
• 2:14
  Speaker 7: Yes?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I did that video from inside the courtroom from our
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: friends at East Idaho News straight out to Nate Eaton,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: joining US news director East Idaho News and star of
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: courtroom insider Nate Eaton. A defense attorney's sweetest dream comes true?
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Is it true that on the so called gun towel,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: the towel that was draping the elegited murder weapon. A
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: scientist at the lab states that there was three sources
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: distinct sources of DNA on the towel.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: She said Nancy her very first report when she first
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: tested it, that there was likely or could have been
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: resources of BNA from three separate people.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: But hold on, Nate eat, let me understand what I'm hearing.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: The scientist writes three sources of d in a Joe
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Scott Morgan joining US renowned death investigator, Professor forensics, Jacksonville
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: star of a hit podcast Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: but death investigator with over ten thousand death sines under
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: his belt. Do you understand the bombshell?
• 3:39
  Speaker 8: Nate Ate and just reported, Yes, I do that there
• 3:44
  Speaker 8: was a thought that there would be a third contributor.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: And wait a minute, Joe Scott Morgan, hold on. Philip
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Dubay is apparently chomping at the bit, and I know why.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Philip Dubay is a veteran trial lawyer out of La
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: County Public Defender's Office. Philip Dubay has tried more cases
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: than many lawyers ever dream about. Let me explain, A
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: trial lawyer is a different breed.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: We're not house pets.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: We're not sitting behind the desk researching in a musty
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: court house looking through files of wheels and deeds. We're
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: in the arena, dirty, sweaty bloody, but yet still fighting. Dubay,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: why are you so happy about right now?
• 4:36
  Speaker 9: Because I get to show a couple of things. First
• 4:38
  Speaker 9: of all, that this was a framed job, that he's
• 4:40
  Speaker 9: been railroaded, and that there's a third party culprit that's
• 4:44
  Speaker 9: still on the lamb. It is no coincidence that somebody
• 4:47
  Speaker 9: else's DNA is on that towels because somebody else did
• 4:50
  Speaker 9: it who may have had a connection to Tyler Robinson.
• 4:54
  Speaker 9: What a perfect way to throw Tyler under the bus
• 4:57
  Speaker 9: and make him face the firing squad and all marksmen
• 5:01
  Speaker 9: rather than the true culprit.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Look at the video, please look look how many people
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: do you see right there, Philip Dubay? I see one.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I don't see a crowd. This isn't a cocktail party.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: There's no rave going on on top of the low
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Ce building. There's one person there, one towel covering one
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: gun this video. What am I supposed to believe? You
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: are my lying eyes? That's from sharp man onyx. What
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: about a dobet you or my lying eyes?
• 5:33
  Speaker 9: I only need one jur to say that your eyes
• 5:36
  Speaker 9: are lying, and it could be one of those so
• 5:38
  Speaker 9: called conspiracy theorists or one who feels that the prosecution
• 5:43
  Speaker 9: is not proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt. A
• 5:47
  Speaker 9: jury should not have to guess, surmise, or speculate. The
• 5:51
  Speaker 9: evidence should be rock solid pointing to one person. Otherwise,
• 5:58
  Speaker 9: defendants should be joint in each other charage and tried
• 6:00
  Speaker 9: together before the same jury. But when you're trying to
• 6:03
  Speaker 9: pin it on one person and the evidence is not
• 6:05
  Speaker 9: conclusively presumptive of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, that's called
• 6:10
  Speaker 9: a not guilty.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Well, Philip Dubay, you may actually have a following. We
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: see someone trying to cast blame on a cameraman that's
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: just standing there that had absolutely nothing to do with
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: the shooting of Charlie Kirk. The conspiracy theories are running rampant,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: and Philip Dbay, if you have your way, you're going
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to have grrs feeding into this craziness. That's what you want,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: isn't it.
• 6:42
  Speaker 9: Of course it's what I want, because remember what I
• 6:45
  Speaker 9: said earlier, I only need one to sway the jury
• 6:48
  Speaker 9: or to hang the jury. I don't need all twelve.
• 6:50
  Speaker 9: It would be nice so he doesn't have to face
• 6:52
  Speaker 9: a retrial. But the truth be told, there is in
• 6:56
  Speaker 9: evidence now a third party culprit at large. This is
• 7:00
  Speaker 9: not just speculative, Nancy. What you have is a third
• 7:04
  Speaker 9: party's DNA on a towel that was purportedly wrapped around
• 7:08
  Speaker 9: the murder weapon. Now, whether or not you want to
• 7:10
  Speaker 9: believe that all three were involved, that may well be.
• 7:13
  Speaker 9: But the state's theory is that Tyler Robinson was the
• 7:17
  Speaker 9: sole perp in this homicide. But the evidence belies that,
• 7:21
  Speaker 9: and a jury needs to have the full clear picture
• 7:24
  Speaker 9: of all the evidence and not just a one sided
• 7:26
  Speaker 9: glimpse into it. And when you have this third party
• 7:29
  Speaker 9: out there that's basically getting away with it, juries don't
• 7:33
  Speaker 9: like it. They don't want the underdog to take the
• 7:36
  Speaker 9: fall for the real killer's crime.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You know who you sound like?
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: You sound like f Leate Bailey and Johnny Conchran talking
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: about the real killer, Nate Ayton joining US news director
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: East Idaho News, who has combed over every word heard
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: in the courtroom. Then we have a big erase, erase,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Jurassic erase from the scientist.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: What happened well.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: In her preliminary report, she said that there were likely
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: three samples or could have been three different people. Within days,
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: she changed it to two after further testing, further analysis,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: it was two people's DNA, and those people Tyler Robinson
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: and Lance Twiggs, his roommate who his romantic interest, the
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: one that he was texting with allegedly saying that he
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: had done it, that he had killed Charlie Kirk. All
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: of those postings that we saw about not only that
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Nancy his DNA, the roommate's DNA was also found on
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: the screwdriver that was on top of the roof. And
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: the chances that anybody else's DNA was not these two,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: the scientists said it would be like one in a million,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: one in a billion. There definitely was their DNA on
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: these two pieces of evidence.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Let's go straight into the courtroom.
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: The DNA results from item seven some one and what
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: are one point seven o tillian times more likely of
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: Twigs and t Robinson are contributors than if twigs in
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: an unknown unrelated person are contributors.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Let's skip down to item eight one, and
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: this is relating to swabs of the handle area of
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the screwdriver.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: Yes, will you.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: Read those same two paragraphs there?
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: Male DNA was obtained from item eight sub one. Item
• 9:22
  Speaker 6: eight sub one was interpreted as originating from two individuals,
• 9:25
  Speaker 6: one of whom is Twigs. The DNA results from item
• 9:29
  Speaker 6: eight sub one are thirty quintillion times more likely if
• 9:33
  Speaker 6: Twigs and t Robinson are contributors than if Twigs and
• 9:36
  Speaker 6: an unknown unrelated person are contributors.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: We heard Nate Eighton from East Idaho News explain that,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: but Joe Scott Morgan, can you boil it down even further?
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: One point eight otillion times more likely that the now
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: two DNA contributors are Twigs, the romantic interest, the alleged furry.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Neither here nor there?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: And Tyler Robinson, Oh there, he is dressed in an
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: animal outfit. I don't care if he's a furry. That
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: means nothing to me. I have put every imaginable witness
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: on the stan Joe Scott from nuns, priests, virgens, strippers, prostitutes,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: you name, It doesn't matter. They can all see here
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: and explain what they observed to a jury.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I don't care if he's a furry. That said the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: DNA explain what we know?
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Is Nate Eaton correct the DNA on the gun towel,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: as it is being called, the towel that was wrapping
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: up the alleged murder weapon has two DNAs on it,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: Twigs the furry roommate and Tyler Robinson, the defendant.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: And what is one point eight it til he didn't
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: have to do with anything.
• 10:58
  Speaker 8: Well, it's talking about the percentage, the probability that it
• 11:02
  Speaker 8: could be anyone else, and Nancy, just to frame this out,
• 11:05
  Speaker 8: they also use the word the term quintillion as well,
• 11:09
  Speaker 8: which is even further out there. Nancy, this is this
• 11:14
  Speaker 8: calculation is more people than have ever existed on the
• 11:18
  Speaker 8: face of the planet. Just kind of wrap your brain
• 11:20
  Speaker 8: around that that it could be anybody else other than them.
• 11:24
  Speaker 8: And here's the one thing that kind of bolsters this
• 11:27
  Speaker 8: argument from me is that these two individuals are allegedly
• 11:31
  Speaker 8: in an intimate relationship. That means that they share a
• 11:34
  Speaker 8: common space with one another. These are not just two
• 11:38
  Speaker 8: random people that were out there. And for everybody that's
• 11:41
  Speaker 8: thinking about, well, maybe his DNA was planted there, Okay,
• 11:46
  Speaker 8: well okay, let's go with that. So you acquired both
• 11:50
  Speaker 8: his DNA and this partner's DNA as well in a
• 11:55
  Speaker 8: grand conspiracy to frame both of them. It's almost it
• 11:59
  Speaker 8: breaches into the absurd. At this point in time.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Back in the court room on the stand, Amanda Baker
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: from Quantico.
• 12:07
  Speaker 10: Well, why did you think that Twiggs was someone who's
• 12:11
  Speaker 10: DNA you would expect in those two samples.
• 12:15
  Speaker 11: So, from what I recall in speaking with the investigators,
• 12:19
  Speaker 11: mister Twiggs was a roommate of mister Robinson, and it
• 12:23
  Speaker 11: was thought that those items came from potentially mister Robinson's home.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And I don't.
• 12:30
  Speaker 11: Recall exactly if it was a situation where particular TAWE
• 12:36
  Speaker 11: was known to have been in that house. I don't
• 12:37
  Speaker 11: remember that exactly, but in talking to the investigators, based
• 12:41
  Speaker 11: on their investigation, it was important to assume potentially mister
• 12:46
  Speaker 11: Twiggs was present.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 12:48
  Speaker 10: Did any investigator ever tell you that the towel did
• 12:52
  Speaker 10: not come from mister Robinson's home but was found in
• 12:56
  Speaker 10: a bush out at the university.
• 12:59
  Speaker 12: I was aware of that us, so you knew.
• 13:02
  Speaker 10: That that towel was not found in a place where
• 13:05
  Speaker 10: you would inspect mister Twiggs's DNA to be present.
• 13:09
  Speaker 11: That is correct, it was found outside of my home.
• 13:11
  Speaker 11: But again, based on speaking with the investigators, they had
• 13:17
  Speaker 11: information to suspect that that towel came from mister Robinson's home.
• 13:21
  Speaker 11: And I should utilize mister Twigs as an elimination.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: East Idaho News inside the courtroom. Back to Nate Eaton
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: joining us, and he's director from East Idaho News. The
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: towel was not found, was not taken from the home.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: It was out on a bush where it had been
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: discarded along the same exact route Tyler Robinson took from
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: the Lowcie building where he was perched up on top
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: at the time of the shooting.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: That's correct. And a lot of people, Nancy have said,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: why did he have a towel, Why did he need
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: a towel? Well, he obviously had his grandfathers done allegedly
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: which long which was noticeable. A rifle. You're gonna want
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: to cover that up, and so you would assume that
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: he wrapped it in the towel. Maybe he put it
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: down his pants. There's video out there of him limping
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: that maybe there's some thought that he could have had
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: it in his pants. He was hobbling along and then
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: he discarded both the gun and the towel that he
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have either one of them on his person.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Notice how he's walking with a limp Okay, what because
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: he's got the gun stuck down his leg.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: CoA.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Lor Moore told us yesterday you couldn't break that gun down.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Look at the limp, for Pete's sake. I mean, he's
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: like Quasimodo. Look, okay, soak it in. Soak it in,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: just like the jury's going to do. From our friends
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: at TMZ. And here is the defendant, presumed innocent, jumping
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: down after the shooting and scurrying away running across campus. Okay,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: there we go, yes, running running, running like a young gazelle.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, Philip, do bay? What happened to the limp?
• 15:08
  Speaker 9: Just because you don't see him limping while running doesn't
• 15:11
  Speaker 9: mean he doesn't have a hitch in his get along?
• 15:14
  Speaker 9: You got to see him when he's let.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Me see him actually saying this just because again you
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: want me to not believe my two lion eyes and
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: believe you did you say, just because I can't see
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: him limping doesn't mean he doesn't have a what a hitch?
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And his what it is?
• 15:30
  Speaker 9: Get along? Meaning that he's not limping when he walks.
• 15:33
  Speaker 9: Distinguish how you move when you walk from when you run,
• 15:36
  Speaker 9: And I think a jury can make that distinction, assuming
• 15:40
  Speaker 9: that that's.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Even getting me. Did you say his get along?
• 15:45
  Speaker 9: It's an old expression. It comes from your parts from
• 15:47
  Speaker 9: the South. I think it was coined by Tennessee Ernie Ford.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Actually, Okay, please let's leave him out of this. Okay,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: that said, Nate, I want to all of Philip Dubay's
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: get along aside, Nate Eaton. I want to go back
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: to the DNA because this is critical. You know what
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a stink bomb. This is going to be in the
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: courtroom for the state when it comes out that the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: DNA scientists said at one juncture there was three contributors
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to the DNA on the gun towel. The defense is
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: going to have a field day with that. But I
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: want to clarify something you told me, Nate, that she
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: first wrote three possible contributors in her preliminary notes, in
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: her notes. That's just like when I'm preparing a case
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and I'm reading along and I write, Okay, defendant lived
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: at this address. Then I find out later that's the
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: wrong address, and I corrected. Those are my notes, my
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: work notes. Tell me where she wrote three DNA canes.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: This was in her original report. Here's the interesting thing
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: about this, Nancy, this is a preliminary hearing where the
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: prosecution has to show the judge there's enough evidence that
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Tyler Robinson likely did this. The defense flew in this
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: witness from Quantico, put her on the stand for three
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: hours to try to disprove that the DNA is valid.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: They want the DNA thrown out. They're trying to show
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: the judge that DNA should be brought should not be
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: brought into this case. Personally, I've never seen anything like
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: this at a preliminary hearing where the defense attorney went
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: through the history of the lab, went through the history
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: of DNA and told this Quantico FBI expert that this
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: DNA shouldn't be counted one because you originally said that
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: there were three contributors, and two because there may have
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: been some flaws in the testing.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: So those notes then turned into her report and her
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: final report. Nate eaton how many DNA contributors does she say?
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: We're on the towel.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Two Lance Twigs, the roommate, and Tyler Robinson, the defendant.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Lance Twigs has not been charged. We are expected to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: hear from him in this hearing on a recorded statement.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: He has not been charged and has been given a
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: limited immunity deal, so it will be fascinated to hear
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: what he has to say, and they may well have
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: asked him, did you touch the towel, did you touch
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: the screwdriver? How did your DNA get on this? And
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: that can lead to some further clarification about the Vietnam.
• 18:39
  Speaker 9: Two.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining US forensic psychologists specializing in capital mitigation.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: She's the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Psychology intersect. You can find her at panthermitigation dot com.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry. All it takes is one yourr to buy
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: into the mystery DNA claim that will be made by
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: the defense.
• 19:08
  Speaker 13: Yes, that's correct. It just takes one to at least
• 19:12
  Speaker 13: hang a jury. If they have a particularly strong personality,
• 19:15
  Speaker 13: they may be able to convince the other jurors that
• 19:20
  Speaker 13: they don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this
• 19:23
  Speaker 13: particular defendant committed the crime. So the conspiracy theories can
• 19:27
  Speaker 13: be very damaging.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: Straight out to James Hamilton joining US. Former FBI special agent,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: founder of the Hamilton Security Group. He created the FBI's
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Close Protection School. It trains agents for high stakes protection detail.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: He served on the FBI Director's Protective Detail, FBI Swat Team,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force Coordinator.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: He was a senior VP AT.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Gavin de Beckeren associates now with the Hamilton Security Group.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: James.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Now, the conspiracy theories are attacking the law enforcement and
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: security guards there at the time. They are claiming because
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: of them, because there was not enough security guards present.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: It's somehow their fault. They didn't catch the real shooter.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: What does this mean to you?
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Is it just noise?
• 20:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, there's always gaps in security. It's American culture with
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: regards to assassinations. There's always been gaps, and assassins have
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: always taken advantage of those gaps, as we see in
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: this case. And there's no one absolute security environment, especially
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: someone like analyst Kirk, who was very approachable and wanted
• 20:47
  Speaker 7: to be out in the public, and the assassin took
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: advantage of it. No different than when the cop left Lincoln,
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: No different than Kennedy being in the convertible that day
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: when it's supposed to be in hard car. No different
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: than Reagan v and outside in eighty one. The assassin's
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: take advantage gaps, and that's what happened here in the
• 21:06
  Speaker 7: defense is trying to make an issue of it.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: To Dave mac joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: what is the claim that somehow all of this is
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: because of lack of security?
• 21:18
  Speaker 14: Three thousand people showed up for an event where the
• 21:21
  Speaker 14: school had only prepared for about six hundred, and that
• 21:24
  Speaker 14: is a claim that is being pushed forward that it
• 21:27
  Speaker 14: was a lack of security that allowed this to happen,
• 21:30
  Speaker 14: that there should have been more there than was actually present.
• 21:34
  Speaker 14: And again, this was a promoted event, Nancy. You could
• 21:38
  Speaker 14: look at the history of what Charlie Kirk's events drew
• 21:42
  Speaker 14: and know that it was going to be more than
• 21:43
  Speaker 14: six hundred people. But they didn't plan on it properly.
• 21:46
  Speaker 14: And so that's why they have that to fall back
• 21:49
  Speaker 14: on now, to blame it on a lack of purity
• 21:52
  Speaker 14: that caused these lapses to take place.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by the lapses that took place?
• 21:59
  Speaker 14: Well, okay, you have a guy that is able to
• 22:02
  Speaker 14: get up on a rooftop and lay down prone and
• 22:05
  Speaker 14: shoot Charlie Kirk, and there was nobody watching the rooftops, Nancy.
• 22:11
  Speaker 14: They didn't have the proper security to take care of
• 22:15
  Speaker 14: the perimeter, to take care of Charlie Kirk and his security.
• 22:19
  Speaker 14: This is a guy who has a lot of negative attention.
• 22:23
  Speaker 14: There are people that really don't like for him to talk,
• 22:26
  Speaker 14: and there was nobody watching out, not just in back
• 22:30
  Speaker 14: of him, but in front of him. So that's the
• 22:32
  Speaker 14: laps I'm talking about.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: The security lapses, as Dave Mack has just called it
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: coming up in court.
• 22:41
  Speaker 12: Do you know how many UVU officers you guys employ
• 22:47
  Speaker 12: normally employed?
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: There was fifteen.
• 22:50
  Speaker 12: And do you know how many were assigned to cover
• 22:52
  Speaker 12: that event that day.
• 22:54
  Speaker 5: That were signed to cover it? There was six of
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: us that were there was patrol one and then five
• 22:57
  Speaker 5: others that was there.
• 22:59
  Speaker 12: With the chief. If you all have an idea there
• 23:01
  Speaker 12: were going to be thousands and thousands of people. There
• 23:04
  Speaker 12: was that a surprise to you had an idea and
• 23:08
  Speaker 12: you only had five officers? Yes, six, I'm sorry, I'm
• 23:11
  Speaker 12: counting you as thinking.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: From inside the courtroom from East Idaho News. So there
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: you see the agent David Hull being grilled barbecued on
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: the stand as if somehow that's the reason Charlie Kirk
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: was assassinated. Will a jury fall for it? Well, whatever
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the claims against the law enforcement.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: That was there that day.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: They managed to get something very right, and that is
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: capturing an image of the allegitutor.
• 23:47
  Speaker 12: As of the eleventh, before mister Robinson turned himself in,
• 23:50
  Speaker 12: you all had not been able to determine that is
• 23:52
  Speaker 12: that right?
• 23:53
  Speaker 5: Excuse me? Determine who he was or determined distinguishing features.
• 23:58
  Speaker 12: Determined distinguishing features of the video of the person on
• 24:02
  Speaker 12: the roof.
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: Yes, we had a person of interest and those images
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: were released to the press.
• 24:06
  Speaker 12: You talking about the ones in the stairwell from the correct,
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: from the parking garage. Correct, But the video on the
• 24:13
  Speaker 12: roof was not distinguishable fair.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: That's video as they stand alone. Yes, was not?
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: No?
• 24:19
  Speaker 12: Okay, did you at some point in your investigation collect
• 24:23
  Speaker 12: from two young men who were present at the event
• 24:26
  Speaker 12: a video that they had taken of someone on the
• 24:30
  Speaker 12: roof about ten seconds before this?
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: Yes, a video, Yes, not photographs. A video was collected
• 24:34
  Speaker 5: from an individual who had a video.
• 24:38
  Speaker 12: Do you know what they how they described the person
• 24:41
  Speaker 12: on the roof.
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I read it or if I
• 24:44
  Speaker 5: heard it, but my understanding was they believed it was
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: overwatch or some kind of a police overwatch for the event. Okay,
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: that's my recollection.
• 24:52
  Speaker 12: And do you remember anything specific about the person's build
• 24:56
  Speaker 12: that they discussed when they described the person on the roof.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I do not know, Okay, to Dave Matt Crime Story's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: investigative reporter or East Idaho News in the courtroom, Dave
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: mac they are stating very clearly that the security guards,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: no matter how much they're being attacked right now, managed
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: to very quickly obtain the face of Tyler Robinson. How
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: did they do it?
• 25:22
  Speaker 14: It was a combination, Nancy, of the available video that
• 25:28
  Speaker 14: was there, being the surveillance video throughout the area that
• 25:33
  Speaker 14: allowed security, you know, to actually figure out who this is.
• 25:37
  Speaker 14: You're watching the video right there going down the stairs.
• 25:39
  Speaker 14: But you know, there was enough video provided by UVU
• 25:45
  Speaker 14: that the investigators were able to pull together fairly quickly, Uh,
• 25:50
  Speaker 14: the one person that they saw up on the roof
• 25:53
  Speaker 14: or looked at on the roof, and they were able
• 25:56
  Speaker 14: to carry it down to Tyler Robinson. And again, you know,
• 26:00
  Speaker 14: you're able to track Robinson's movements from the four times
• 26:04
  Speaker 14: he was on campus that day to going up and
• 26:06
  Speaker 14: down the stairs to going and jumping off the route.
• 26:09
  Speaker 14: So there's a lot of video of this guy and
• 26:13
  Speaker 14: being able to figure out who he is. It's not
• 26:15
  Speaker 14: a big lead, Nancy.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Speaking on that subject. Tyler Robinson all over the campus,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: back and forth and back and forth, long before Charlie
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Kirk started speaking, emerges in testimony.
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: At that time. He makes contact with some representatives from
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: TPUSA by quad area. Sorry, the Amphitheater is what I've
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: previously referred it to, a right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 15: So he goes about to campus, visits the Amphitheater area,
• 26:46
  Speaker 15: the courtyard or quad correct and then what do we
• 26:49
  Speaker 15: see here?
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: Now? He returns on footback to the same vehicle.
• 26:52
  Speaker 15: And what time is he returning back to the vehicle.
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: It's about nine twenty five am.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: To Joe Scott Morgan joining us for expert, there's no
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: denying that's him. You can't get away from that. He's
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: all over campus before the Charlie Kirk shooting. He's up
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: and down the stairwells. He's scoping it out. Joe Scott Morgan,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: how can you argue unless the defense wants to argue
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: it's an AI fabrication.
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: There's no way to argue against this. I don't believe.
• 27:28
  Speaker 8: And considering let's reflect just a second. Let's remember the
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: FBI is already involved in this case, all right. It
• 27:35
  Speaker 8: would not surprise me in the least to find out
• 27:39
  Speaker 8: that they have done some enhancementsography from the videography where
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: you will will they will have mapped out his face
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: and it will give you this imprint that matches back
• 27:54
  Speaker 8: to him. It would not surprise me if you hear
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: these people testify, because that's going to be one of
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: the big questions. You know, how do you verify the
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: provenance of these images that you're seeing. This is something
• 28:05
  Speaker 8: that's separate from DNA. So when you think about biometric concerns,
• 28:10
  Speaker 8: which is what we refer to as the mapping of
• 28:13
  Speaker 8: the face, mapping of the eyes, all those sorts of things.
• 28:15
  Speaker 8: Even with fingerprints nowadays, that's going to play into this,
• 28:20
  Speaker 8: I believe, from an evidentiary standpoint, Nancy.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Into James Hamilton, former FBI special agent, founder of the
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Hamilton Security Group.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: You see the video just like we do, just like.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: The courtroom has done in the last hours, and like
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: a jury, we'll see it. There's no denying that's Tyler Robinson.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: But he's also going back to his vehicle. Vehicles have
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: cracked so many cases. James Hamilton his vehicle. They can
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: enhance the tag, the license, They can probably get him
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: in the vehicle, his face driving the vehicle.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: How critical will it.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Be that it's his car, not just his face, but
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: it's his car too.
• 29:09
  Speaker 15: Yeah, it's just more evidence.
• 29:10
  Speaker 7: It's more evidence for the jury to see putting him
• 29:13
  Speaker 7: there at the scene prior to the killing. And you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 7: it's it's casing. It's it's absolutely you know, in line
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: with casing that environment, looking before you operate. It's what
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: they call pre operational surveillance. And yeah, the key, the
• 29:26
  Speaker 7: car's key. Him being there's key, I agree with the
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: other guests. Or will be some type of facial enhancement
• 29:31
  Speaker 7: by the FBI. But the jury's got a lot to
• 29:34
  Speaker 7: you know, see here, which puts the guy at this
• 29:37
  Speaker 7: at the crime, which is great evidence.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Let me understand something else. Dave Matc, Crime Stories, investigative reporter.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Is it true that Tyler Robinson went before the shooting
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: and spoke with TP Turning Point USA personnel.
• 29:55
  Speaker 14: Yep, he sure did, Nancy. He as we mentioned earlier,
• 30:00
  Speaker 14: he was just talking to them about the event. He
• 30:02
  Speaker 14: was just trying to blend into I'm guessing that he
• 30:04
  Speaker 14: was up close so he could see what the layout
• 30:07
  Speaker 14: was going to be. He knew where he was going
• 30:09
  Speaker 14: to be, and he needed to know everything that was
• 30:11
  Speaker 14: going on up there where exactly Charlie Kirk would be sitting,
• 30:15
  Speaker 14: where exactly everyone would be positioned, And so why would
• 30:19
  Speaker 14: he be bothering with that? He would be hunkered in
• 30:21
  Speaker 14: his position waiting. Instead he's rambling all around, going to
• 30:25
  Speaker 14: Chick fil A and then coming and talking to TPUSA
• 30:28
  Speaker 14: before he goes and takes his position from the crow's net.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: To fillow debate. Veteran defense attorney joining us out of
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction. That's your man, he is on camera.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: How are you going to argue against he was there
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: casing everything out, walking with a limp where a gun
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: stuck down his pants.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I mean going up.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: To TPUSA and asking specific questions about when Charlie Kirk
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: was going to take the stay, each where was he
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: going to be, just anything to get a chance to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: see what was going on.
• 31:05
  Speaker 9: Well, first of all, they're going to have to verify
• 31:07
  Speaker 9: only a foundation that it was in fact him as
• 31:09
  Speaker 9: opposed to some young man making these inquiries. But even
• 31:13
  Speaker 9: assuming they could make the link, I can see and
• 31:17
  Speaker 9: anticipate the defense showing that this is simply pro social
• 31:21
  Speaker 9: behavior on his part. He's only there to assist, promote,
• 31:25
  Speaker 9: and help with the well being of others in his
• 31:28
  Speaker 9: Q and A. Now doesn't mean it's going to fly.
• 31:31
  Speaker 9: Maybe not. But remember what I said earlier. It only
• 31:34
  Speaker 9: takes one juror to have sympathy for this young man
• 31:37
  Speaker 9: to really see that maybe he was there to help
• 31:40
  Speaker 9: understand and maybe guide others away we perceived his harm's way.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: He was there to help there to help help.
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: What and organize the event, to make sure that the
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: coast was clear that things were safe. The evidence is plea.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: You're arguing that Tyler Robinson. It can be argued look
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: at the chaos this guy caused, Joe Scott. You've heard
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a lot of witnesses on the stand, a lot of
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: any defense theories, but Joe Scott, would they dare to
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: argue Tyler Robinson was there to help organize the event.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: It doesn't even make sense.
• 32:22
  Speaker 8: All due respect to Philip, No, it would not surprise me.
• 32:26
  Speaker 8: I've seen defense attorneys do multiple things over the years
• 32:29
  Speaker 8: that literally, you know, I had to put on my
• 32:32
  Speaker 8: shot face, as they say, But it's you know they're
• 32:35
  Speaker 8: trying to get their defendant off, but yeah, it's it is.
• 32:39
  Speaker 8: It is insulting when you begin to think of it
• 32:42
  Speaker 8: from that perspective. That was not his mission set in
• 32:46
  Speaker 8: this particular case, Nancy.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: That video of the chaotic scene after the shooting is
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: from Life is Driving on X and Warm on it
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: zero R three. Let's go back into the courtroom regarding
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Robin returning and returning and returning to campus.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: This is mister Robinson returning to the campus on foot
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: from the neighborhood to the northeast. You can see he's
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: wearing the same clothing as in the previous video and
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: he's carrying a blue backpack.
• 33:17
  Speaker 15: Describe the clothing.
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: It's a maroon colored T shirt with gray or olive
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: colored shorts and then converse shoes.
• 33:30
  Speaker 15: And what time did he return to campus?
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: Just after ten am?
• 33:37
  Speaker 15: And does he leave the parking structure eventually he does?
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 33:41
  Speaker 15: And during this visit, do you know where he goes
• 33:44
  Speaker 15: after he leaves the parking structure?
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: Yes, we were able to track his movements on campus.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: He went to Chick fil A in the Sorenson Building,
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: purchased some food and satinate the food. From there, he
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: moves across campus, out across campus Drive into a wooded
• 34:03
  Speaker 5: area on what would be kind of the northeast side
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: of campus Drive, then returns back onto campus. We noticed
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: at this point that he's no longer carrying the backpack
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: that he was originally wearing. He moves through the Gunfa
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: Building and the Computer Science building, then goes across to
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: the railing that gives access to the roof of the
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: Loci building. From there, From there he comes back down
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: the stairs and walks off campus from that point.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: You know what this is reminding me of to Phillip
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Debet debate defense attorney. When Scott Peterson was approached, his
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: wife had been missing, his pregnant wife had been missing.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: And he was approached and told that the bodies that
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: had just washed up at San Francisco Bay, that the
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: DNA test results were back, and those two bodies, a
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: woman and an infant, were his wife Lacy and unborn
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: son Connor. And within about eight minutes, guess what Scott
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Peterson said, I want to see debay. Please, that's not debay,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: there's debate. Scott Peterson within eight to ten minutes says,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're driving through I'll take a double
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: double with cheese fries in a large shape. They just
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: told him his wife was absolutely dead, her dead body
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: had washed up at the San Francisco Bay and his
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: unborn child. It did not affect his appetite. And here
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: in the midst of all this, Tyler Robinson is caught
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: on video chowing down at Chick fil A. What is
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: wrong with him?
• 36:00
  Speaker 9: Well, first of all, you're making the assumption that it
• 36:03
  Speaker 9: was him all along. It is not uncommon to see
• 36:06
  Speaker 9: a student, first of all, carrying a book bag, wearing
• 36:10
  Speaker 9: a baseball cap, casually dressed, going to get a bite
• 36:13
  Speaker 9: to eat. And to suggest that this is just a
• 36:17
  Speaker 9: cold blooded killer. I don't think there's enough evidence there.
• 36:21
  Speaker 9: And as for Scott Peterson, if that were in the
• 36:23
  Speaker 9: state of Utah, he would get a special jury instruction
• 36:26
  Speaker 9: that any oral statements that he made that were not
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: recorded should be listened to and viewed with caution. Because
• 36:34
  Speaker 9: it's so easy for anyone else.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Well, Jue, who is not the state of Utah, quit
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: dreaming that Chick fil a photo from Candice Owens.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: You know you're just you're grabbing.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: A straws trying to claim anything other than what I
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: am telling you. You also claim, how do I know
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: is Tyler Robinson? Other than us seeing his face? There's
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: more to prove it is Tyler Robinson.
• 37:03
  Speaker 15: You believe this is mister Robinson returning to campus? I do, yes, okay,
• 37:06
  Speaker 15: And what do you believe it's mister Robinson. The shoes
• 37:09
  Speaker 15: are the same, and the images that we have are
• 37:17
  Speaker 15: from my viewing and seeing mister Robinson on the video.
• 37:20
  Speaker 15: It's the same person. He's noticeably wearing different clothing.
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: He is wearing different clothing, and he also is walking
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: with a gate or a limp in this video.
• 37:33
  Speaker 15: So when he leaves the parking structure, where does he go?
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: He comes up around Campus Drive. As you can see
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: on the video here, there is a there's a cut
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: through there north of the Lowsie building, and that's mister
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: Robinson coming up the sidewalk, has the noticeable gate or
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: limp in his walk, and then he moves south across
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: the run of the Loci building.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: So, amidst all of his scouting and scoping and questioning
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: the turning point, USA staff doctor Sherry Schwartz, he built
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: up an appetite.
• 38:09
  Speaker 13: Yes, it seems that he wanted to make sure that
• 38:13
  Speaker 13: he ate before carrying out whatever deeds he carried out
• 38:18
  Speaker 13: that day. Mister Duby, the defense attorney, said earlier that
• 38:24
  Speaker 13: he was engaging in pro social behavior, and I would
• 38:28
  Speaker 13: say the opposite. From a forensic psychological perspective, I would
• 38:31
  Speaker 13: say that this is very clearly textbook antisocial behavior.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: In addition to it being his car with his car
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: tag and his face and his clothing. The video ultimately
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: catches him here.
• 38:49
  Speaker 5: And again in the top left corner of the individual
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: is now seen running across the rooftop of the Loci
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: building to what would be the southwest corner of the building,
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.
• 39:07
  Speaker 15: And this is it?
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: What time around twelve twenty three? I think a time
• 39:14
  Speaker 5: snap on the video is twelve twenty.
• 39:15
  Speaker 15: Two on the tent.
• 39:19
  Speaker 5: On September tenth, Yes, twenty twenty four.
• 39:21
  Speaker 15: We're clear. This is the roof of the low se building.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Correct.
• 39:26
  Speaker 15: Can you still see that individual?
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: You can, laying prone according to prosecutors, Yes, alygn prone.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Ready to pull the trigger if you know or think
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: you know anything about the shooting of Charlie Kirk Dial
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: toll free eight hundred two, two five, five, three two four.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: We remember an American Hero, Trooper, Michael pahera Pennsylvania State
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: police killed in the line of duty, leaving behind grieving
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: parents Michael and Patricia. American hero Trooper Michael Pahara. Thank
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: you to our guests, but especially to you for being
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: with us. Nancy Gray's signing off for tonight, but I'll
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend.