Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mommy smothers 3 tots during lullaby, stages to look like napping.

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Mommy smothers 3 tots during lullaby, stages to look like napping. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:04
Speaker 1: At first when people entered the home, it looked like
0:08
Speaker 1: the children were taking a nap. Mommy said that she
0:12
Speaker 1: was convinced they had gotten ill overnight. Had they were
0:15
Speaker 1: they running a fever? But then they were cold to
0:19
Speaker 1: the touch. Did a young mom seeing her children not
0:25
Speaker 1: to sleep but to death. A three year old son,
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Speaker 1: a one year old daughter, and a seven month old
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Speaker 1: baby girl all dead? How did it happen? Crime Stories
0:50
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Henry admits to police she smothered each child,
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Speaker 1: starting with her one year old daughter. The people were
0:59
Speaker 1: going on to say that the mom admits her three
1:01
Speaker 1: year old son yelled no and try to get his
1:04
Speaker 1: mom to stop smothering his sister. But Henry didn't stop
1:08
Speaker 1: until the one year old stopped kicking and she knew
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Speaker 1: her daughter was dead. She loved him so much, like
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Speaker 1: how that loves her kids do that. Documents reveal Henry
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Speaker 1: would then chase after the three year old son, straddling
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Speaker 1: him and singing to him as she smothered him. Henry
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Speaker 1: would do the same with her seven month old daughter.
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Speaker 1: It's most difficult part to see children who are the
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Speaker 1: most innocent that have obviously lost their lives. Investigators say,
1:37
Speaker 1: Henry put all three children on the couch as if
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Speaker 1: they were taking a nap, never telling the rest of
1:44
Speaker 1: the family. Probably one of the most difficult calls that
1:46
Speaker 1: are officers and fire personnel respond to. A judge now
1:51
Speaker 1: has set the bond at three million dollars one million
1:54
Speaker 1: each for each of her three children. You were just
1:58
Speaker 1: hearing our France at kp XNBC twelve. That was Michael
2:02
Speaker 1: dowdna I Meancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you
2:05
Speaker 1: for being with us, with me an all star panel
2:08
Speaker 1: to break it down put it back together again. Wendy Patrick,
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Speaker 1: prosecutor out of California, author of Red Flags. You can
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Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com. Bruce Johnson,
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Speaker 1: owner ESP Investigations, Master Sergeant, Region one Crime Scene Commander, Chicago.
2:27
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgam, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University and author
2:31
Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, renown forensics psychiatrist
2:35
Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober. You can find him at doctor Daniel
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Speaker 1: Bober on Instagram. Deputy medical exam er out of Travis County, Texas.
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Speaker 1: That's Austin doctor Kendall Crowns right now, to Katie Wilcox,
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Speaker 1: Executive producer, twelve News kpn X I Team, Katie Wilcox,
2:53
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. Let me understand.
2:56
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. When were the children last
2:59
Speaker 1: saying alive? What we understand from the interview that Michael
3:03
Speaker 1: and down know who just heard from did with their father,
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Speaker 1: Two of the children were alive when he got home
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Speaker 1: from work that day. He had an opportunity to play
3:12
Speaker 1: with them before he fell asleep on the couch when
3:15
Speaker 1: the mother then killed her oldest, the son Zane, and
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Speaker 1: the baby Catalia. He believes that his one and a
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Speaker 1: half year old daughter, Maria was dead when he arrived home,
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Speaker 1: but of course she thought she was taking a naut
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Speaker 1: with me. Katie Willcox at twelve News kpn X to
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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, Austin.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Crows, It's hard for me to believe It's not impossible,
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Speaker 1: But how could the mom murder two children while the
3:46
Speaker 1: dad took a nap right there, I think on the sofa.
3:50
Speaker 1: How could he not hear anything going on? The children
3:53
Speaker 1: are pretty easy to control them and smother them without
3:59
Speaker 1: them making much noise. They don't often put up much
4:02
Speaker 1: of a fight because they aren't all that strong, and
4:05
Speaker 1: an adult hand can cover their mouth and nose quite easily,
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Speaker 1: and it only takes a matter of seconds before they're unconscious.
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Speaker 1: So it could be relatively easy to murder a child
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Speaker 1: in the next room with another adult and not even
4:19
Speaker 1: applies what's going on. M I hear what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: I don't doubt you. It's just that you know, Bruce Johnson,
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Speaker 1: I think you and I are on the same page
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Speaker 1: on this. Everybody's a suspect until I can rule them out, everybody,
4:36
Speaker 1: including Jackie Howard right here in the studio. Everybody did
4:39
Speaker 1: it in my mind, until I can figure out what
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Speaker 1: really happened. So, Bruce Johnson, agree or disagree with doctor
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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns. As a matter of fact, before you answer,
4:49
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends. At Arizona ABC fifteen,
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Speaker 1: Mike Pelton, the twenty two year old mother is accused
4:55
Speaker 1: of smothering her three children to death with other adults
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Speaker 1: inside the home up here unaware of what she'd done.
5:04
Speaker 1: Three children smothered to death at the hands of their
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Speaker 1: own mother, Rachel Henry That's what police say in new
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Speaker 1: court documents. The children, ages three and younger, took their
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Speaker 1: last breaths in signed this home on Monday. Police say
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Speaker 1: Henry then placed them quote in a position on the
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Speaker 1: living room couch as if they were taking a nap.
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Speaker 1: No motive mentioned to Bruce Johnson, Chicago Metro Area Now
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Speaker 1: owner ESP investigations. Is it possible? Is it probable? Is
5:36
Speaker 1: it likely? Could it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt?
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Speaker 1: Do we have any reason to believe the dad knew
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Speaker 1: what was happening? I mean, what do you think, Bruce Johnson?
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Speaker 1: First blush, Okay, Well, first of all, this is a
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Speaker 1: terrible scene for law enforcement when they do arrive a
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Speaker 1: case like this involving multiple children. And the next real
5:58
Speaker 1: odd thing is that you know she she is admitting
6:02
Speaker 1: to killing all three of them while he was at home.
6:05
Speaker 1: As far as the type in the manner, that's going
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Speaker 1: to be easy for pathologists because the upper lip, if
6:14
Speaker 1: you pull it away from your teeth, there's um, you know, uh,
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Speaker 1: flesh there, and they look to see if that's ripped
6:23
Speaker 1: foaming of the mouth on the one child when they
6:26
Speaker 1: discovered her. But they're gonna look and see you know
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Speaker 1: everybody's story initially, So just because she may be saying this,
6:35
Speaker 1: there's of course they're going to look at him as
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Speaker 1: a possible suspect right off the bat. They're gonna question him,
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Speaker 1: They're gonna, you know, separate both of them, and when
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Speaker 1: she gets once she gives the confession as to the
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Speaker 1: type and manner of death, then you're gonna go backwards
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Speaker 1: and confirm it. So that's where the pathologist comes in. Autopsy.
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Speaker 1: Look at the upper lip, look at patigi in the eyes,
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Speaker 1: the time between the teeth, everything that goes with a
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Speaker 1: suffocation type of episode. But her doing this, I'm sure
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Speaker 1: you're forensic psychiatrists will will speak on it. I've had
7:14
Speaker 1: a case where a twenty four year old wrestler killed
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Speaker 1: his grandma and grandpa, washed them, bathe them, and set
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Speaker 1: them in their deathbed. And this is a sign that
7:22
Speaker 1: she did something similar to that. She didn't wash them
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Speaker 1: and reclothe them, but to put them on the couch
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Speaker 1: in a display manner that there are a lot of
7:32
Speaker 1: issues there going on. Take a listen to our forensic
7:35
Speaker 1: kpn X twelve. When he woke up, he said the
7:38
Speaker 1: children were on a couch just across the room, a
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Speaker 1: walk over to the couch. I pulled the cover back
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Speaker 1: for my daughter, and then a couple of seconds later
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Speaker 1: I hear Murray and Moray and Thane, and I didn't
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Speaker 1: even notice. I just noticed the baby. I didn't even
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Speaker 1: notice my other two kids. Police would arrive too late
8:02
Speaker 1: for his three children. Been hard on myself, like I
8:05
Speaker 1: should have done this. I what if I would have this.
8:11
Speaker 1: It's eating me life. I'm not perfect. No climb stories
8:28
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. He came to Arizona from Frogue, Oklahoma,
8:33
Speaker 1: described as a typical small town by friends. We reached
8:36
Speaker 1: by phone, like I've been around her a lot. I
8:38
Speaker 1: mean I helped her her mom out quite a bit.
8:41
Speaker 1: Anthony Rapture and his wife became friends with Henry about
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Speaker 1: six years ago. Henry is seen here with Rapture's wife, Tiffany.
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Speaker 1: He says he would help out Henry and her mom
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Speaker 1: before Henry's mother passed away, and the Rachel and my
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Speaker 1: wife actually became very close and they got quite a bit.
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Speaker 1: We got to see a lot of drama that went
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Speaker 1: on over the house. Rapture says Henry had babysat his
9:05
Speaker 1: own kids and both he and his wife. Never knew
9:08
Speaker 1: Henry to be capable of anything like the alleged murder
9:11
Speaker 1: of her three young children. As a matter of facts,
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Speaker 1: even baby fitted my children people, you know. So I've
9:17
Speaker 1: never noticed any kind of depression or anger or you know,
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Speaker 1: hostility towards children or anyone else. I never would have
9:27
Speaker 1: expected that from her. I knew she was unhappy, but
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Speaker 1: not to that extent. My stars, everybody on earth is
9:36
Speaker 1: a little bit unhappy for Pete's sake. I mean, I
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Speaker 1: think that's human nature. Don't you think the Lord gets
9:43
Speaker 1: tired of us grumbling and whining and carrying on with
9:47
Speaker 1: all the blessings that are reigned down on us every day,
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Speaker 1: But yet we do it. So she's unhappy, But even
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Speaker 1: neighbors allowed her to baby sit their children. This doesn't
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Speaker 1: make sense. Why in the world suddenly three dead children?
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Speaker 1: Take a Listen to ABC fifteen. In Claudia Ripping, Phoenix,
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Speaker 1: police say twenty two year old Rachel Henry confessed to
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Speaker 1: killing her three children. Is anything you want to say
10:15
Speaker 1: to the rest of your family. Our crews were there
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Speaker 1: as she was booked. Henry's facing three counts of first
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Speaker 1: degree murder. Police had happened Monday night at this home
10:24
Speaker 1: off Vineyard and twenty fifth. The victims just babies, a
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Speaker 1: three year old boy, a two year old girl, and
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Speaker 1: a seven month old girl. Horrible. That's why we have kids,
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Speaker 1: to love them, to take care of them. Medium Soto
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Speaker 1: lives next door. She says she saw the young mother
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Speaker 1: outside talking to police Monday night, and she felt that
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Speaker 1: something was off. She looked nervous. I looked at her
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Speaker 1: as a mom. I would have been devastated. I would
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Speaker 1: have been beating myself up seeing the tragedy that had
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Speaker 1: just happened. Soto didn't know the family well, but said
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Speaker 1: she'd often see the kids outside and the baby loved
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Speaker 1: to be on the swing. You could see the children playing, happy,
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Speaker 1: running around. And we still have so many questions. We
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Speaker 1: don't know exactly how those little kids died. We do
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Speaker 1: know from police that there were no obvious signs of trauma,
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Speaker 1: but ultimately you'll be up to the medical examiner to
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Speaker 1: release the exact cause of death too. Justice got Morgan,
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Speaker 1: Forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
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Speaker 1: Beneath My Fate on Amazon. I heard maybe as dodger
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Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's mentioned earlier, or possibly Bruce Johnson about foam
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Speaker 1: on the mouth, What if anything would that signify? And
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Speaker 1: can you look around the scene itself and determine if
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Speaker 1: there was a struggle. Does the forensic evidence bear out
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Speaker 1: what we are being told? I don't know, Nancy. There's
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Speaker 1: a multiplicity of routes we can go down as far
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Speaker 1: as the frothiness that you see what's referred to if
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Speaker 1: I'm hearing the description correctly, frothy ademnitis cone and many
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Speaker 1: times this will appear when somebody is in a congestive
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Speaker 1: event where their lungs are so heavy to take imn
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Speaker 1: It stop between you and Crowns and Bober, I'm just
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Speaker 1: gonna like jump off the roof. What do you mean
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Speaker 1: a congestive event? Why do you insist on talking that way?
12:15
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott morgan to listen. When I was trying cases,
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Speaker 1: I couldn't ream out the medical examiner, sorry Crowns at
12:22
Speaker 1: his office when I would prepare for trial, because you
12:24
Speaker 1: don't want an angry witness up on the stand in
12:26
Speaker 1: front of your jury or a no show for Pete's sake.
12:29
Speaker 1: But Joe Scott, I mean how many times have I
12:32
Speaker 1: asked you, at least for me? Can you dummy down
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Speaker 1: just a little bit? This is a lesson. Take Heed
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Speaker 1: Bober and doctor Crowns. What do you mean a congestive event?
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Speaker 1: Could you just start over and pretend you're talking to
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Speaker 1: a first grader me. Maybe the listeners know exactly what
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Speaker 1: you're talking about. Maybe they're all medical examiners and forensic experts,
12:54
Speaker 1: but I'm not so explained to me as if you
12:57
Speaker 1: would someone that knows nothing about this field. Hit me. Yeah, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I would never presume to talk to you as a
13:04
Speaker 1: first greater foot and and just wipe that stark off
13:08
Speaker 1: your face and get lose the attitude aude. Okay, go ahead, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: Hey listen. Yeah, what I'm talking about is essentially that
13:17
Speaker 1: this depletion of oxygen, that this child is being deprived
13:22
Speaker 1: of deprivation of oxygen because the hand allegedly is covering
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Speaker 1: the mouth. This is going to cause the child to
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Speaker 1: struggle greatly. The lungs will become heavy over the short,
13:34
Speaker 1: very short period of time. Actually, and you can have
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Speaker 1: this congestive event, this frothy cone. But Nancy, I have
13:42
Speaker 1: to tell you two things that really concern me in
13:45
Speaker 1: this case. Just beyond that, they this husband that comes
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Speaker 1: home and he says that he sees one child reposed.
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Speaker 1: He thought the child was asleep. Other two kids are,
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Speaker 1: in his estimation, alive. I think he may have interacted
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Speaker 1: with him. He goes to bed, and then miraculously the
14:04
Speaker 1: kids are deceased when he wakes up. I think the
14:08
Speaker 1: big question here for me did the Maricopa County Medical
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Speaker 1: Examiner's Office actually go out to the scene. Did they
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Speaker 1: have personnel there that checked for PMI post mortal interval?
14:19
Speaker 1: How long had these children been dead? And this is
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Speaker 1: a very specific methodology they have to go through, checking
14:28
Speaker 1: for the core body temperature on these children and kind
14:31
Speaker 1: of marrying that up with the environmental temperature. That's going
14:35
Speaker 1: to be key because you're gonna have a multiplicity of
14:37
Speaker 1: stories that are coming down the defense. In this case,
14:41
Speaker 1: the mothers may have done it. I'm unclear at this point.
14:44
Speaker 1: I want to know the facts, and secondly, I want
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Speaker 1: to know what was in the system of these children,
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Speaker 1: and that's going to be key. They will have drawn
14:52
Speaker 1: blood probably you're in at the scene, and they're going
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Speaker 1: to run this for toxicology. I wonder what's going on
14:58
Speaker 1: in the lives of these children. Well, you know what,
15:01
Speaker 1: I asked for it and I got it. That was
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Speaker 1: certainly a mouthful. Doctor Kendall Crown's Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas,
15:08
Speaker 1: Austin now in Metro Atlanta, inner City Atlanta. Very often,
15:14
Speaker 1: before I could get to the scene, the medical examiners investigators,
15:19
Speaker 1: if not the medical examiner assigned to the case their self,
15:23
Speaker 1: but their investigators would be there, and I, very often
15:27
Speaker 1: at trial would rely on the notes, the measurements, the
15:31
Speaker 1: observations of the medical examiner investigators as well as the
15:36
Speaker 1: cops or the sheriff's investigators. But explain to me why
15:42
Speaker 1: is it important for someone like you, the medical examiner
15:46
Speaker 1: to go to the scene. Well, it's important to go
15:50
Speaker 1: to a scene, not necessarily for the medical examiner themselves,
15:53
Speaker 1: but at least one of the medical investigators have worked
15:56
Speaker 1: for the medical Examiner's office, because you need to have
16:00
Speaker 1: your individual there to be an unbiased scene documenter, so
16:04
Speaker 1: when you go to the court, you don't look like
16:06
Speaker 1: you're a tool for the law enforcement of the prosecution.
16:11
Speaker 1: It also gives us pictures and documentation that are very
16:15
Speaker 1: important to us. When we're doing the autopsy, for knowing
16:19
Speaker 1: how the body was positioned, what was around the body,
16:22
Speaker 1: things like that. Because we don't autopsy in a vacuum.
16:26
Speaker 1: Without a good scene investigation, our findings are a meaningless
16:31
Speaker 1: You know, this is reminding me of another case. Listen,
16:34
Speaker 1: there's no question she murdered her children one by one,
16:38
Speaker 1: drowning them all in the family bathtub, locking the door
16:41
Speaker 1: so the five children couldn't get out of the house,
16:44
Speaker 1: waiting until her husband left to avoid detection, fighting to
16:49
Speaker 1: hold each one of the children under the water, the
16:52
Speaker 1: children's bodies bruised. Struggling to live crime stories with Nancy Grace,
17:13
Speaker 1: There's no question she murdered her children one by one,
17:17
Speaker 1: drowning them all in the family bathtub, locking the doors
17:21
Speaker 1: so the five children couldn't get out of the house,
17:24
Speaker 1: waiting until her husband left to avoid detection, fighting to
17:28
Speaker 1: hold each one of the children under the water, the
17:32
Speaker 1: children's bodies bruised, Struggling to live That mother Andrea Yates,
17:39
Speaker 1: who murdered all of her children as soon as her
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Speaker 1: husband Rusty Ates, left home for work, lied them out
17:46
Speaker 1: on the bed as if they were sleeping as well.
17:50
Speaker 1: That was me talking on HLN Bruised struggling to live?
17:55
Speaker 1: Very important? Were these children bruised? Joining me right now,
18:00
Speaker 1: Executive producer twelve News KP and x I Team, Katie Wilcox,
18:06
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about the scene? I think
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Speaker 1: what's so wild about this scene? And it wasn't just
18:12
Speaker 1: mom and dad at home when this all happened. Their
18:17
Speaker 1: aunt was there as well, So this whole family was
18:20
Speaker 1: living with the Aunt Pearl. And when dad describes waking
18:25
Speaker 1: up and kind of finding the kids, he you know,
18:28
Speaker 1: he's on the phone with his an older son that
18:31
Speaker 1: he's got, and he says that mom and Aunt Pearl
18:34
Speaker 1: had gone to get pizza and they come home when
18:37
Speaker 1: he finds all the children. So there were you know,
18:40
Speaker 1: there was this scene is a mom, a very distraught father,
18:45
Speaker 1: and this aunt who is just in shock as well.
18:48
Speaker 1: And she basically described to us when we got to
18:51
Speaker 1: chance to talk to her that she can't understand how
18:56
Speaker 1: you know, they all believed that my mom was playing
18:58
Speaker 1: the baby to the babies, all three of them at
19:00
Speaker 1: one point down for naps. And that's something you allow
19:04
Speaker 1: parents typically to do in an empty, you know bedroom,
19:07
Speaker 1: You might let them take a kid in there. She
19:10
Speaker 1: can't figure out how she could have been killing these
19:13
Speaker 1: kids while she was in the house with them as well,
19:15
Speaker 1: And part of the scene for her was just this
19:19
Speaker 1: utter shock that when you pull this blanket off of them,
19:22
Speaker 1: they're they're gone. And so for what we know about
19:28
Speaker 1: this family is that it seems like it could have
19:33
Speaker 1: been maybe an almost normal feeling until you realize that
19:37
Speaker 1: these children are not breathing, they're not alive, and they're
19:42
Speaker 1: laying on this couch. It's it's honestly just one of
19:44
Speaker 1: the most horrific stories we've had to cover. There wasn't,
19:48
Speaker 1: you know, a big blaring sign though, like there had
19:51
Speaker 1: been some fights or some catastrophe that happened there, until
19:55
Speaker 1: you realize that these children weren't alive anymore. That's that's
20:00
Speaker 1: what we know from the scene. These that children were
20:04
Speaker 1: described as, you know, not not having any obvious signs
20:06
Speaker 1: of trauma when firefighters got there and when first responders
20:10
Speaker 1: were there. But the father, you know, he describes obviously
20:15
Speaker 1: very vividly seeing his youngest, the seven month old baby, Catalia,
20:20
Speaker 1: with um, you know, fum coming from her mouth as
20:23
Speaker 1: we talked about, and and some some blood. So it's
20:30
Speaker 1: the kind of still horror. I can't really think of
20:35
Speaker 1: it any other way. The only sign that anything was
20:38
Speaker 1: wrong is the fact that they were gone. Listen. This morning,
20:42
Speaker 1: we have learned that through the investigation, the twenty two
20:45
Speaker 1: year old mother has admitted to harming first three children,
20:49
Speaker 1: which caused their demise. As you can remember, they were
20:54
Speaker 1: pronounced deceased last night. She will be booked on three
20:57
Speaker 1: accounts of first degree murder. This investigation is still ongoing.
21:02
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of collection and gathering of evidence
21:05
Speaker 1: that needs to still be done, and obviously there's going
21:07
Speaker 1: to be other interviews with witnesses an additional information. As
21:10
Speaker 1: you can imagine, this case is very complex. There's a
21:12
Speaker 1: lot of moving parts to it, and so we are
21:14
Speaker 1: comfortable in saying now that the mother is responsible for
21:17
Speaker 1: the death of the children. Did Rachel Henry, a young
21:20
Speaker 1: mom from Phoenix, murder three of her children? This phenomena
21:27
Speaker 1: of mothers murdering their children. A three year old, a
21:31
Speaker 1: one year old, a seven month old. The children found
21:34
Speaker 1: propped up on the sofa quote as if they were sleeping.
21:40
Speaker 1: You were just hearing the press conference at the Phoenix
21:43
Speaker 1: PD That was Sergeant Mercedes for Tuna. This reminds me
21:48
Speaker 1: so much of another mom who murdered her children as
21:52
Speaker 1: soon as the husband wasn't looking. I had to do
22:00
Speaker 1: it because work joining me right now, Doctor Daniel Bober
22:09
Speaker 1: Forensic Psychiatrists. You can find him on Instagram, Doctor Daniel Bober.
22:13
Speaker 1: Doctor Bober. It's common knowledge, and I guess I would
22:19
Speaker 1: need a stat to back that up, and I bet
22:21
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick in California has one. But it's common knowledge
22:25
Speaker 1: that men kill murder statistically overwhelmingly more than women do.
22:33
Speaker 1: And when women do kill, it's their partner or their
22:37
Speaker 1: own children. Help me out, doctor Daniel Bober. When when
22:44
Speaker 1: the cops got there, According to Katie Wilcox at twelve
22:48
Speaker 1: News KPNX, the father and the family were all distraught
22:53
Speaker 1: and the mom was not. Yes, that's true, Nancy. And
22:56
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, this case is eerily similar to
22:59
Speaker 1: the Andrea case. And I actually worked with Phil Resnick,
23:02
Speaker 1: who was the defense expert on the Andrea Yates case.
23:06
Speaker 1: You know, in the Andrea Yates case. Well, now, what
23:10
Speaker 1: a second, Biber. Did you just hear Andrea Yates on
23:13
Speaker 1: the stand under oath saying she waited until Rusty went
23:16
Speaker 1: to work before she murdered the children so he wouldn't
23:19
Speaker 1: stop her. She locked all the doors so they couldn't
23:21
Speaker 1: get out. She took them one by one in order
23:25
Speaker 1: of how much they would fight back to her with her,
23:29
Speaker 1: in order to kill them all so she can plan
23:33
Speaker 1: a crime not to get caught. That kind of ruins
23:36
Speaker 1: the insanity defense. Well, actually, Nancy, it's not that simple.
23:40
Speaker 1: Andrea Yates believed that she was killing her children to
23:44
Speaker 1: defeat Satan. She was under a paranoid delusion and believed
23:48
Speaker 1: that she was actually doing right. And I can tell
23:50
Speaker 1: you that Andrea Yates was severely, severely mentally ill. So
23:56
Speaker 1: that's the that's the psychiatry, that's the science behind it,
23:59
Speaker 1: the law something. Okay, doctor Bob, hold on, hold on.
24:02
Speaker 1: When you say mentally ill, would you say she was insane?
24:07
Speaker 1: That did she did not know right from wrong at
24:09
Speaker 1: the time of the incident. I would say that she
24:11
Speaker 1: what she believed that she was doing was she believed
24:15
Speaker 1: that she was right for a delusional reason. If that
24:18
Speaker 1: makes any sense, Okay, then why did she wait till
24:20
Speaker 1: her husband was gone so she quote would not get caught.
24:23
Speaker 1: Why did she lock the door so the children could
24:25
Speaker 1: not escape. Why does she try to kill them one
24:28
Speaker 1: by one methodically so she could affect the martyrs successfully
24:34
Speaker 1: without the other children knowing what was happening and running
24:37
Speaker 1: out of the house. She planned it, doctor Bobera, because
24:41
Speaker 1: in her mind she was covering it up for Satan.
24:44
Speaker 1: In her mind, she had a history of postpartum psychosis.
24:48
Speaker 1: Her obgyn told her multiple times not to have more children,
24:52
Speaker 1: and her husband, Rusty, was putting pressure on her. And
24:56
Speaker 1: by the way, Rusty brought a date to the trial,
25:00
Speaker 1: the one that was putting pressure on her. You know what, good, Look,
25:03
Speaker 1: I'm not on Rusty's side because here he is with
25:08
Speaker 1: a great job, I think, as an engineer, and he
25:12
Speaker 1: moves his whole family, a wife and five children into
25:14
Speaker 1: a school bus. You know, so I'm not down with that.
25:17
Speaker 1: He and I have had to have cross swords on
25:19
Speaker 1: many times before. But he's not the one that murdered
25:22
Speaker 1: the children, Doctor bober And if you know enough to
25:25
Speaker 1: cover up your crime, that means you know it's wrong.
25:28
Speaker 1: So you can say whatever psycho mumbo jumbo you want.
25:35
Speaker 1: She may have had a mental illness, she may have
25:37
Speaker 1: had postpartum depression. I get it, But okay, psychoasis, but
25:42
Speaker 1: she knew what she You know what, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor,
25:47
Speaker 1: author of Read Flags Wendy Patrick PhD dot com help
25:51
Speaker 1: me out. Yeah, now, see one of the things we
25:54
Speaker 1: look for. And you and I both tried not guilty
25:56
Speaker 1: by reason of insanity cases where a mom kills her
25:59
Speaker 1: kids is or her mother, her own mother, or a
26:01
Speaker 1: family member and then says all these things that make
26:04
Speaker 1: it seem like she's insane, but legally, Nancy, legally that's
26:09
Speaker 1: not necessarily true. There's a much higher burden. So in
26:12
Speaker 1: this case, one of the things they're going to look at,
26:15
Speaker 1: first of all the demeanor of this mother, and that
26:17
Speaker 1: is very telling in terms of did she know what
26:20
Speaker 1: she did was wrong? In addition to the ritualized way
26:23
Speaker 1: she lied them out? How long were they did, how
26:25
Speaker 1: did she kill them, what happened during the fact that
26:28
Speaker 1: there's somebody present in the home. There's a lot of
26:31
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence to work with that's really going to help
26:35
Speaker 1: make jurors understand that as out of context and is
26:38
Speaker 1: just heartbreaking as this seems, and as this sounds, that
26:43
Speaker 1: this mother knew right from wrong. Okay, I've got doctor
26:45
Speaker 1: Daniel bober telling me that Yates, Andrea Yates, Wow, postpartum psychosis.
26:54
Speaker 1: Now everybody's jumping on the bandwagon that this mom, Rachel Henry,
27:01
Speaker 1: had some sort of a depression. But I've got one
27:06
Speaker 1: word to say, metha and fetamine. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
27:25
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody, I Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories
27:28
Speaker 1: with Me, Katie Wilcox, kp n X I team, doctor
27:32
Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's Doctor, Daniel Boberg, Joseph Scott, Morgan, Bruce Johnson,
27:35
Speaker 1: and Wendy Patrick. A few people on our panel are
27:39
Speaker 1: tuning up with me right now, and they seem to
27:43
Speaker 1: be singing a chorus that this mom that murdered her
27:48
Speaker 1: three little children, ages three, one and just seven months,
27:52
Speaker 1: had mental illness. She had an illness, all right, take
27:57
Speaker 1: a listen to kpn X NBC twelve poison candles lined
28:01
Speaker 1: the fins outside the home where three children lost their lives.
28:08
Speaker 1: Rachel Henry, the children's mother, now booked with charges of
28:12
Speaker 1: their murder. Accused of murder, three counts of murder in
28:15
Speaker 1: the first degree. The Saint says Henry had drug problems,
28:18
Speaker 1: especially with meth and once had children taken away from
28:22
Speaker 1: her before she moved to Arizona last year. But those
28:25
Speaker 1: claiming to know Henry say she had her issues but
28:29
Speaker 1: loved her children. Okay, Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, Yeah,
28:36
Speaker 1: metha amphetamine. Do you still want to tell me this
28:38
Speaker 1: was some kind of postpartum psychosis she was using meth
28:44
Speaker 1: She had had her children taken away before. He chose
28:49
Speaker 1: to use methamphetamine. That was her choice. But meth amphaetamine
28:52
Speaker 1: can cause a psychosis which can be characterized by paranoid delusions,
28:58
Speaker 1: auditory hallucinations, and she may not have been in touch
29:02
Speaker 1: with reality. It is possible, and it may be a
29:04
Speaker 1: possible point of defense. Boy, you just you know what,
29:07
Speaker 1: You're gonna go down swinging. But you know what, so
29:09
Speaker 1: am I Katie Wilcox, Executive producer, twelve neus kpn x
29:13
Speaker 1: I Team. Isn't it true that Defects Department Family Children's
29:19
Speaker 1: Services had taken the children away before and that mommy
29:24
Speaker 1: Rachel Henry was addicted meth i? Ay? Yeah, that's all
29:29
Speaker 1: of the information that we know. We were able to
29:31
Speaker 1: review the police reports that showed um, Yeah, that the
29:35
Speaker 1: Child Protective Services in Oklahoma had removed her children from
29:40
Speaker 1: her home there and put them in the custody of
29:43
Speaker 1: Pedro's grandmother. They also showed that yes, she had had
29:50
Speaker 1: a history of using meth and futamine. Pedro talked about,
29:53
Speaker 1: you know, they both had used drugs in the past,
29:56
Speaker 1: and it looks like from everything we can tell that
30:01
Speaker 1: she somehow was able to get these kids back. So
30:05
Speaker 1: the children were placed with their grandmother for at least
30:08
Speaker 1: a week, and then DCS or the Child Protective Services
30:13
Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, has refused to turn over any other records
30:16
Speaker 1: and says that they're not involved in this death investigation.
30:20
Speaker 1: So that has been incredibly difficult for us to answer
30:23
Speaker 1: those questions and to really seek justice for these kids.
30:27
Speaker 1: The Arizona governor has spoken out and said that he
30:29
Speaker 1: hopes something like this might help bring some kind of
30:33
Speaker 1: new interstate compact to try to help protect children if
30:38
Speaker 1: they're already in DCS case, so that these kinds of
30:41
Speaker 1: things don't just end when you cross state lines. Katie Wilcox,
30:46
Speaker 1: you know what, they've been singing that same whole song
30:49
Speaker 1: for so long, politicians and children just keep dying. They
30:53
Speaker 1: will be being observed, supervised by Child Protective services in
30:59
Speaker 1: one stay, the parents move, and then they end up
31:02
Speaker 1: dead in the next state. I've seen it over and
31:04
Speaker 1: over and over. To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of
31:09
Speaker 1: Red Flags, it's exhausting, it's defeating when you're trying, trying,
31:15
Speaker 1: trying to stop child murders and then they die at
31:18
Speaker 1: the hands of the one person that's supposed to love
31:20
Speaker 1: them the most. Also, Wendy de facts once again, let's
31:25
Speaker 1: children slip through the cracks and now they're all dead.
31:29
Speaker 1: Third issue, Wendy, the whole family knew mommy was on math.
31:33
Speaker 1: They all knew it, but they let her be alone
31:35
Speaker 1: with the children. Wendy. Yeah. The problem, and this is
31:38
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we use expert witnesses at trial,
31:40
Speaker 1: is you know, many parents don't believe or many family members.
31:44
Speaker 1: I should say that meth can cause something like this.
31:46
Speaker 1: You talk about psychosis and addiction and health concerns, but
31:50
Speaker 1: nobody links I mean we should. The more cases like
31:53
Speaker 1: this we get, nobody links these as unintended consequences. So
31:57
Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons it will be highly relevant
31:59
Speaker 1: who knew what when in terms of prior drug use,
32:02
Speaker 1: prior issues. You know, and who else in the family
32:05
Speaker 1: was using and was it an issue of It's obviously
32:08
Speaker 1: child endangerment in the word sourced case if you can
32:10
Speaker 1: have them at home and have something like this happen.
32:13
Speaker 1: But Nancy, it's really an issue of awareness and as
32:16
Speaker 1: a society, sadly, through cases like this, we are becoming
32:19
Speaker 1: more aware that these may be the unintended consequences. It's tragic.
32:23
Speaker 1: Bruce Johnson, owner i SP Investigation, former Master Sergeant Commander
32:29
Speaker 1: Chicago Metro Area. Bruce, when they had the bond hearing
32:34
Speaker 1: for Mommy, no remorse whatsoever. But she did have a
32:39
Speaker 1: little bit to say. She expressed concern about her bond,
32:43
Speaker 1: that she was worried she wouldn't be able to scrape
32:46
Speaker 1: together the money to get out of jail. You know, Bruce,
32:50
Speaker 1: when people talk at their bond hearing and say things
32:54
Speaker 1: like that, all she cares about is her getting out
32:57
Speaker 1: of jail. M're talking about her mindset. I think later
33:03
Speaker 1: when they interview her and find out some things, I
33:06
Speaker 1: would be interested. I would be willing to bet that
33:08
Speaker 1: he the father of the latest one, the one that
33:12
Speaker 1: was there, that he introduced her to the meth or
33:16
Speaker 1: possibly introduced her to the meth and that part of
33:20
Speaker 1: her demise and her mind and her thinking was that
33:24
Speaker 1: you did this to me, and I'm doing this to you.
33:27
Speaker 1: And that's where the display might come into play with me.
33:30
Speaker 1: Joscott Morgan and doctor Daniel Bober and doctor Kendall Crowns.
33:36
Speaker 1: You know, I think one of the things that's really
33:39
Speaker 1: concerning to me Nancy is not whether or not she's
33:43
Speaker 1: sick in the head, is what were these kids exposed to? Remember,
33:49
Speaker 1: there the specific damage in this case, it's their little
33:52
Speaker 1: lives that have been snuffed out. I want to know
33:54
Speaker 1: what was in their system. And with people that are
33:59
Speaker 1: have decided to destroy their lives with myth, there there
34:03
Speaker 1: happens to be other damage that occurs. These kids may
34:06
Speaker 1: have been exposed to toxic levels of methamphetamine. They're talking
34:11
Speaker 1: about this one child that had this demitus cone that
34:14
Speaker 1: was coming out of their mouth. Sometimes certain drugs can
34:18
Speaker 1: cause can cause this event, this respiratory event like this.
34:23
Speaker 1: I'm really wondering maybe that child died as a result
34:26
Speaker 1: of exposured myth. I don't know that for a fact,
34:29
Speaker 1: but I'd like to know. I want to know what's
34:31
Speaker 1: going on in the system and broader in a broader sense,
34:35
Speaker 1: the system relative to defacts. How can defacts continue? And
34:39
Speaker 1: we see this time and time again of putting children
34:42
Speaker 1: back into these same environments over and over and over
34:47
Speaker 1: and over again until you wind up with dead kids
34:50
Speaker 1: on your hands. To doctor Kendall Crown's, Deputy Medical Examiner,
34:54
Speaker 1: Travis County, Texas, Austin. Doctor Crown's reportedly the one little
34:59
Speaker 1: boy the three all fought, scratched, kicked to try to live,
35:05
Speaker 1: but mommy continued until he was dead. What are your
35:09
Speaker 1: thoughts on the case, doctor Crown? All My thoughts on
35:11
Speaker 1: the case are again, adults can easily kill children. Smothering
35:17
Speaker 1: is one of the ones that we often won't have
35:20
Speaker 1: any findings whatsoever. I've been on child's fidelity review boards
35:26
Speaker 1: for almost twenty years, and I've seen time and time
35:30
Speaker 1: again where kids are returned to an environment or they
35:33
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been returned to. My problem is, as I've
35:37
Speaker 1: had cases of mothers that just didn't want to have
35:40
Speaker 1: their kids anymore. You know, they just found them a burden,
35:43
Speaker 1: and so they smothered them because they couldn't in a
35:46
Speaker 1: quote from one of the cases, couldn't kick it, like
35:49
Speaker 1: they used to. So you know, you can say all
35:52
Speaker 1: this stuff about psychoses or drunk induced stuff, but you know,
35:56
Speaker 1: sometimes they just don't want their kids anymore because they're
35:59
Speaker 1: a burden and they want to go have fun and
36:01
Speaker 1: party and they just get rid of them. And I
36:05
Speaker 1: can't tell you how much it upsets me when I
36:08
Speaker 1: agree with the other panel members. The system gets broken down,
36:11
Speaker 1: the kids get returned. But again, you know, you can't
36:15
Speaker 1: always give these parents the defense of well, they weren't
36:19
Speaker 1: in their right mind at the time, because sometimes they
36:22
Speaker 1: have those kids, they don't want those kids, and they
36:24
Speaker 1: just dispose of them like their trash. Three little children,
36:28
Speaker 1: Zane Henry, Mariah Henry, and Kataliyah Rio's Henry all dead.
36:36
Speaker 1: Mariah would have turned two next week. To doctor Daniel
36:42
Speaker 1: bob Or Physics psychiatris, you well know as I do,
36:46
Speaker 1: that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense.
36:51
Speaker 1: That is true, Nancy. But well, where it gets more
36:53
Speaker 1: complicated is if there's a psychotic disorder as a result
36:57
Speaker 1: of that substance. And I actually agree with your disgust.
37:01
Speaker 1: There are situations where the parents just don't want the kids,
37:04
Speaker 1: and it's that simple. So I think every case is unique,
37:07
Speaker 1: and I think you have to look at all the possibilities.
37:11
Speaker 1: We'll be thinking about those quote possibilities when they lower
37:14
Speaker 1: those three little caskets into the ground. We wait as
37:17
Speaker 1: just as sudden falls Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off
37:21
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,