Latest / Harder Than Life / 24: The Business of Business is Relationships w/ Michelle Rios

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24: The Business of Business is Relationships w/ Michelle Rios · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  I'm Kelly Siegel and this is harder than life a podcast about self-love self-awareness business and health We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple practical advice. You can start using today. Let's get living
• 0:15
  Today's guest on the Heart and Life podcast is relatively unknown, but not for long. She is literally the smartest person I know. I am excited to introduce her to the world. She's been in personal development from the age of 26, and how that happened will blow your mind.
• 0:30
  She also doesn't age, but yet becomes even more brilliant. She hosts the Live Your Extraordinary Life podcast, is a loving wife of 19 years, a caring mother, and not to be outdone as an executive at a successful PR firm. My friend and soon to be yours, Michelle Rios, welcome to the show. Wow. Thank you, Kelly. It's a pleasure to be here. What a welcome.
• 0:55
  I, Michelle, I have pages of notes from our introductory call, which was cut short and we could have talked for hours. I think today could be the same. So let's dive right into it. Tell the audience about the eulogy of your grandmother's funeral.
• 1:12
  So I was brought up with my paternal grandparents very early on. I had a very close relationship with my grandmother and my grandfather on my father's side. And that continued to the day she died, even though I had long left Maine where I was raised. And she was at that point.
• 1:34
  living in Georgia with one of my aunts, the actual day she passed away, I was brought home, I was asked to come home and deliver her eulogy, which I happily did. And it was probably one of the biggest awakening moments of my life because I grew up
• 1:54
  like you, Kelly, relatively poor. And I say that relatively because there are people with more poverty issues than we had, but we had a lot of hard times. And I grew up with the mentality that I had to pave the way and go do great things and become and strive. And I did all those things.
• 2:16
  And I was winning and I was getting straight A's and going to graduate school, not once for free, but twice at a prestigious, you know, universities and winning awards and climbing up the corporate ladder. And these were all the things that I was taught to want because it was the antithesis of what my family had experienced. I was the first to go to college. So there was a lot of firsts happening. And yet...
• 2:43
  i know you'll find this familiar there was this giant void in the center of my heart right we all know that so well and well and my grandmother god bless her was watching watching this ascent watching this ascent and she never she'd always say just remember who you are and whose you are and that
• 3:11
  It didn't really sink in until after she left what she was referring to. But when I started to work on her eulogy, that's the moment of awakening, one of the moments of awakening for me, because my grandmother raised eight children. My father's the youngest.
• 3:28
  She lost two children before she passed away, three children before she passed away. One was an eight-year-old daughter to diphtheria, a 19-year-old son that was killed in action in Korea. So devastating that she was giving birth to my father and had to leave him in the hospital to attend her eldest son's funeral. And yet...
• 3:52
  My grandmother was one of the most peaceful, serene, loving, caring Irish grannies that ever was. I don't ever remember her ever muttering a bad word in her life. She was just always this warm place to go home to no matter what was going on in my life. And I was standing in front of a packed congregation
• 4:17
  And you have to keep in mind, my grandmother was 93 when she passed away. She had no living friends at that point. And yet it was a packed congregation in a state she no longer lived in because the children of her friends and their children had shown up to give their respects because...
• 4:34
  She was a constant force of peace. She was a constant force of grace. And she was always available. And as I stood up, you know, I was in this beautiful dress and I was excited to see family. I was heartbroken about losing my grandmother because I knew it was going to create more of a void in my life, not having her presence. But as I stood there, I realized, oh my gosh, I'm going to be able to do that.
• 5:02
  The woman I have been striving to become my whole life was in my life. My grandmother was the most beloved woman
• 5:14
  And if I'm honest with myself, what I really wanted is to be loved and to have an impact and to carry on in a peaceful way. And I was highly agitated under the surface, feeling lost and lonely, despite being surrounded by a lot of people and being kind of the it girl at the time. And I.
• 5:37
  I didn't really feel like I belonged anywhere. And so I had this moment of just going, she is everything that I wished I could be. And I had done everything to leave my history behind. And here I didn't have to go far. It was in my own family. This woman who carried herself with grace and peace despite adversities and was loved and cherished all the things I wanted. So it really...
• 6:07
  put this pause on for me to examine do i really want to continue on a path of striving and achievement or do i need to open the aperture and recognize some of these intangible experiences around grace and peace need to come from me god you just hit me right in the heart i
• 6:33
  I was just like meditating on this exact thing before you get on. I am, you just resonated everything with me. And I, this is why we're so connected. Every single piece of what you just said,
• 6:47
  I connected with my grandmother, everybody, everybody showed up for her funeral, 93 years old as well. And, um, uh, and I gave the eulogy and, you know, wow. It's just, I am working on yesterday. I had a day from can be like all up in my fields. If you saw my social media, I said, I've just put it out there because I let people know that, Hey, and it's not all rainbows and
• 7:12
  A lot of what I'm working on is just surrendering and letting things happen instead of constantly pushing. And like our mutual friend Craig says, forget the outcome, divorce the outcome, marry the process. That's what we're really saying. And it just keeps coming up. I got a message from a friend yesterday. I said the same thing, not even knowing what I was going through. And then you just said it. You just blew my mind.
• 7:38
  it's a lot of universal themes right and I think that's why we're called to do what we do it just keeps happening and if you pay attention like so it's funny I I one of the things that I did when I gave my grandmother's eulogy I took this was in my heart of drinking and I took a couple of weeks off because I knew I just lost the only pert woman in my life that has ever been there for me from day one and
• 8:03
  I knew I had to back off because it wasn't going to be good. So you just tugged on my heart and I love it. And we're going to flip gears because there's going to be, and then we're going to switch into the actual interview because I just wanted to get these two questions out because we left them when we were in or when we were talking before we left them. And at the end of the call, you told me to remind you about your son coming into your office and asking you a question. What was that question?
• 8:28
  Oh yeah. During the height of COVID and my son was home, he's 16 now, but at the time he was 14 and he had been listening to me, counsel clients on what to do. And this a very tough situation. I do crisis counseling and reputation counseling for corporations. So we were in the thick of it. And what do we do about this thing called COVID? I know. Right. And he,
• 8:58
  He said, mom, are you on mute? And I said, yeah, go ahead, what do you need? I thought he had a question about school. And he said, no, he just said, when are you gonna stop counseling everybody else and helping them get visibility and just do your own thing? He's like, I'm listening to you repeat yourself over and over and over again. And he's like, they gotta wanna take the counsel to get better. And he's like, why don't you just stop wasting your time and do your own thing, mom? Michelle, stop it.
• 9:25
  Literally, that's exactly what somebody just said to me. They're like, stop. I got a meme just this morning. It said, stop trying to save everybody. They're just drowning you.
• 9:37
  Oh. Yeah, I literally was like, hey, well, you know, I get paid quite handsomely to tackle these questions. And he said, yeah, but does it feed your soul, mom? I mean, mind blown 14 year old, does it feed your soul, mom? He knew the answer. I mean, it's my wise sage 14 year old at the time. Did you tell him it's May 31st, 2023? Those of you that don't know, maybe.
• 10:06
  Maybe, maybe we're looking that, you know, she's such a high demand executive that they keep extending her. But this will probably air right around that time. So we'll we'll add something in the show notes. I do want to have a virtual party. Yeah, right. I want everybody to head over to your Instagram and follow this magnificent woman immediately. She is fire can be found in Instagram at Michelle Rios, the number one.
• 10:30
  I'm telling you, she's going places and is straight up fire. Her motto is failure is not an option. Tell the listeners how you came, how that came about, because again, this is me. I won't quit. It's just impossible for me to quit. So it's the same thing. This is why I love you.
• 10:52
  I mean, you know, for me, it started really early on. So everyone who talks about maybe idyllic childhoods might wanna walk away because one of the things Kelly and I have in common is it was not idyllic. You know, I think maybe for me, I had a happy-go-lucky experience
• 11:10
  pretty well through zero to six. I wasn't very aware of how hard things were and how young my parents were. But right around my sixth birthday, one of my older cousins said, ''Hey, do you know that you were an accident?'' And I didn't really know what that meant, and I had no idea. And he was like, ''Yeah, you weren't planned.'' And then I was really hurt and pretty defiant and...
• 11:35
  and angry at everyone like how could you do this to me which of course is a silly thing to ask but when you're six you just think it's about you and i felt really hurt and really ashamed and i remember my very young parents and i have to keep in mind my mother was a sophomore in high school i have a sophomore in high school who's nowhere prepared to be a parent my mother was nowhere prepared to be a parent and i was born
• 12:01
  a few months later. And they got married. So it was, you know, my dad graduated in June. They got married in July. I was born at the end of September. And my dad sat me down and he said, Michelle, you might not have been planned, but you're the best thing that's ever happened. Oh. And don't let anyone bring you down.
• 12:24
  So I had different difficulties. My parents, my mother, you know, had to finish high school and get a GED at night with me in tow. And I used to like sit there with a clipboard and a pencil and tell her to do her homework. You know, my dad worked two jobs because he had to take care of us. And I had two siblings that came relatively in close succession to me. They're Irish twins. My brother was born the day before my sister's first birthday.
• 12:51
  And they're four and five years younger than I am. But my dad really put this seed in me that my story was I was going places. That I was to pave the way. And the only thing I would say the hard part of that was and failure is not an option. Hmm.
• 13:13
  You know, there is no safety net for you, kid. We don't have money to fall back on. We don't know anybody. So it's all on you. So I had a tremendous amount of pressure, but I will tell you, I was very prideful at the young age. I felt...
• 13:29
  It was an honor to pave the way for my family. And I was going to be the first. My parents didn't go to college. Well, I'm going to go to college. And my siblings are going to go to college. And one day, my dad is going to go to college. And by the way, we sent my dad to college. My dad went to college when we all graduated from graduate school, all three of us.
• 13:46
  And that sense of I'm leading the way, it didn't happen for them, but I'm going to make this change for our family was just really early. And it created a lot of pressure, but it also created a determination in me that I'm going to make this change for our family.
• 14:04
  I am going to be successful. That was my story. And I felt very compelled to live my life through it. I never felt at a moment that I couldn't handle it. I felt that I was under a lot of pressure, but I felt like that was my path.
• 14:18
  My parents had a difficult path. I had a difficult path, but my difficult path was taking me places and it was going to elevate my family. We were going to break the cycle of poverty. People were going to start going to college and graduate school and becoming and having all the things that were elusive to me. You know, the beautiful house and the closet full of clothes that as a little girl, I didn't experience. And I watched my mom.
• 14:45
  literally go without shoes because she wanted to make sure we had shoes when we started school. And that feeling of like, that's not going to be me, I promise you. And one day it's not going to be my parents. And our lives are completely transformed as a result, completely, all of us. My brother is a successful attorney. My sister is a successful therapist. I'm an executive in
• 15:14
  experience and really really talking about the lessons i've learned through my life and where i have needed to reevaluate the things that hardened me to really get to the next level because there was a long time that even though i was making
• 15:36
  hands over fists more than my dad ever earned it was never enough because i couldn't get away from the hole in the void and it really did take
• 15:48
  I got to jump in there because that's, I'm working on this very same thing because you're the story that you tell yourself and the meaning you assigned to it. We know it because we've been working on this, but this is for the audience members. The things that happened to you happen for you and make you stronger. Look at, look at what it did for you. So this toughness, even though that was never said to you, turned you into a successful PR executive. Yeah.
• 16:14
  So for me, all the things you read in my book, empty and pee jars and abuse, and it turned me into the tough guy. And I've been working on this EMDR therapy where it changes the meaning that you assign to it. And it gives a logic meaning and it blows my mind. It almost erases some of the things that I went through. And so if you're always telling yourself something bad and it's.
• 16:38
  not working for you. In your case, it worked for you. In my case, it worked for me. We're pretty successful, pretty happy and experienced joy, but there's people that it isn't working for them. So if that's you, there are modalities of therapy out there for you to go back and erase, so to speak, or assign new meaning to what happened to you. It's like, I just was doing an EMDR therapy and I was having a problem with something from a birthday. Right.
• 17:05
  Well, the one birthday that I celebrated at five, my, my parents made it, played a joke on me and it was, and the meaning I signed it is I didn't matter. The real meaning was they were just making me tough and making me understand that this is a tough world we live in and you gotta be, and I'm going to plug it harder than life. And that's what they were, they were making me. And that made me to be successful. And so I'm in front of you and I get to talk to amazing people like you. So you stole my next question, but I'm going to fricking tee it up anyways. Yeah.
• 17:34
  Your parents were 18 and 16 when you were born. You are from a small town in Maine. Your brother is a lawyer and your sister is a therapist. Sounds like a perfect family. But at 26, you burned yourself out and literally said, I surrender. Please start this banana story from the beginning because it's so impactful. Go all the way through to the bus.
• 17:58
  Okay, so this is a good one. And it was probably the first real awakening I had. My grandmother passed away a few years after this incident, but I had just come back from overseas
• 18:12
  I had won a rotary ambassadorial scholarship, was very young to receive this. I was one year out of college. I had worked in a consulting firm in that summer. I had won this scholarship and I was assigned to go to business school in Spain. So I was there doing that year and I could feel something amiss already when I was overseas. And when I came back,
• 18:37
  And I started working again. I was invited to, I had applied to graduate school. I was invited to Georgetown. They offered me a full tuition scholarship to go to the School of Foreign Service, Business Diplomacy and Latin American Studies program.
• 18:54
  And I at first I had they didn't offer me a full scholarship at first. They'd offered me a partial scholarship. And I said, I'll think about it. And then a few days later, they came back and offered me the full scholarship. So I said, I guess I'm going. So when I went to tell my employer at the time, I was working in a global organization. It was a think tank here in Washington, D.C.,
• 19:15
  I said, I think I'm going to have to resign. I'm going to full-time graduate school in the fall. And they said, no, no, no, no. You don't need to resign. Don't take out loans to live. Work here. We understand you're going to have class during the day, at night, all the things. But you work as many hours as you can. Keep your job so you don't have to take out any loans for a living.
• 19:35
  So I literally had this amazing setup where I was working full time as an assistant communications director. I was going to graduate school full time and I was running back and forth. I would get out of class, run to the office, work in the office, get out of the office, run back to class, work in the library, you know, go to the library, study, go back home and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And this had been going on for a really long time. The studies were intense. The work was.
• 20:06
  Uh-oh. Shit. Just lost her. It's got to be her internet connection, unless it's the fucking platform. That was weird. Did it automatically reconnect you? No, I reconnected. Oh, weird. Anywho. Keep going. And so I was...
• 20:31
  Okay, so I was running just nonstop, nonstop, go, go, go. And I was still going out with friends. I had a great group of friends that I had met in DC the year that I had been working and consulting and all of this, but I was literally operating on fumes. I was barely eating. I was being fed by a street vendor from Afghanistan. And this is no joke. This poor man who had immigrated to our country and had a...
• 20:59
  like hot dog soda vendor right on the corner of New York Avenue and 17th Street, right across from the old executive office building, which is where my office building was, would see me racing from graduate school class and into my office and he'd say, Michelle, Michelle, Michelle, stop, stop. You haven't eaten. I know you haven't eaten today. And he and his wife and their infant baby would have a bag waiting for me.
• 21:24
  a bag lunch, these immigrants waiting for me because they knew I wasn't eating. And I lived by myself and I was not really grocery shopping. I was doing what I could, but like, you know, I was young. I was young. I was going on all cylinders, doing all the things. And they would literally pay for my life. Like here, no, no, I don't need you to do that. Here's the money. And they wouldn't take it. They literally fed me for two years of graduate school. Did you ever see them ever again after graduate school?
• 21:51
  I did. In fact, my grandmother knew of this. And when she came down for my graduation from Georgetown, unbeknownst to me, had been slowly but surely amassing baby clothes and making Afghan, funny enough, Afghan blankets because she crocheted for them and knitted. Yeah.
• 22:14
  asked me to bring her to the gentleman who had fed me for two years. And so we drove down to this corner of New York Avenue and 17th Street, across from the Corcoran Art Museum and Art School and from the World Executive Office Building, pulled over in the car and my grandmother had a box of stuff for them saying, you took care of such good care of my granddaughter. And I just wanted you to know that we
• 22:40
  see you and she handed them this box of clothes and blankets and stuff which she never told me she was doing i had no idea and you know i saw them for years after that because i continued to work in that environment for a few for a few years so they they helped raise me they weren't much older than i was but they helped raise me that makes me so so
• 23:02
  This makes my heart smile because the world is really a good place. It really is. And those are wonderful people. Let's go back to the story. You're on the bus.
• 23:13
  Let's get to the boss because it's so bananas. I'm running around in this experience of graduate school and full-time work. And what I hadn't realized is that over the time I was really getting worn down to the point that I was starting to not sleep well. And I was starting to suffer from burnout and depression. And remind you, you're 26. Very textbook. Yeah.
• 23:36
  I was 26. And one day it just, it came to a point where I was so exhausted, been up late studying. I couldn't sleep, but then I could barely pull myself out of bed. And when I did, I was just in a really bad space. And I was living on the 10th floor of this apartment building in Georgetown. And I looked out of the living room bow case window and I remember just thinking,
• 24:02
  Man, it would be so freeing to just jump. I'm just sorry. I laughed, but it wasn't funny. I just, because I've, man, how many times have we all felt that? I carry a gun and I think, man, this is crazy.
• 24:20
  Like you just want to let it go. It's a rat race. I was exhausted. And I'm like, I just want this taken from me. Like I want this burden lifted. And I didn't know how to get out of it. I was too young and not mature enough to recognize it was in my control. Michelle, think about this for a second. The metaphor that's about to come. And I'm sorry for the listeners. I already know the story because we talked. It's a spoiler alert. It's going to be surrender. Yeah.
• 24:48
  what we talked about i didn't even think about it till just now that's why i stole the thunder oh my you're remarkable because you just keep going forward and and i'm sorry i just gotta cut in and just say how amazing i think you are and and i'm so excited to help you in any way going forward and we're gonna we're gonna have some fun and and i'm gonna support you in any way shape or form go back to the boss because it's so good what's about to say you're about to say
• 25:13
  So I left the apartment, needless to say, when I was realizing that I have contemplated jumping out of a window was not really in my purview. I was like, what the hell am I doing? What am I thinking? This is not me, I love life.
• 25:30
  And I need to get a grip. So I left and I jumped on a bus. It's a 30 bus. And if you know Washington, D.C., they do this loop through Georgetown, down M Street, down by the White House and back. And I rode the bus that day because I didn't know where else to be that was safe from my own thoughts, to be honest.
• 25:51
  I did circles around the city. And somewhere around the second loop through the city, the bus driver sort of looked up at me and was like, are we getting off? And I was at that point, you know, I'd been crying and sobbing. I had snot on my face. I was pressed up against the window. And I was kind of like, just leave me alone and let me figure out what my game plan here is. And kind of knew to do that. But I think after about two and a half hours together,
• 26:19
  He was genuinely worried. And he looked up at me and said, so is it you and me all day or you got some plans? And I was like, I gotta get off this bus. And it was that moment that I said, all right, okay, God, I surrender. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go and I can't go home. And in that moment, Kelly,
• 26:44
  I kid you not. I look up and the sign on the street says community mental health center. And I got off the bus and walked inside. My mind is just below. Every time I hear the story, I can't believe it. Now keep going. Gets better people. So,
• 27:05
  That really began, I walked in and I was expecting, you know, I had a little bit of prejudice. I had, my sister was a therapist, she was starting to be a therapist and I actually,
• 27:17
  You know, the running joke was, and I say this with all deference to all therapists today, because my sister and I are very, very close. But I was like, if you want to be a therapist, it's because you need a therapist. And so I was I had these old school thoughts about what it meant. And I was I was back then there was still a lot of stigma around mental health and not like it is today, not openly discussing. We're going back now. Twenty six years and.
• 27:46
  I sat in there going, I know that I need to talk to someone, but I don't know if this is gonna help. And God has a really good sense of humor because he sent this woman to come and bring me into the office. And I immediately started with, I don't think you're gonna be able to help me, but, and she said, okay, well humor me, let's see.
• 28:07
  and i said well so i'm in corporate america you know mind you i've been in corporate america for all of about four years so i'm young and very green but i have been going non-stop since the age of six so i've been 20 years of non-stop
• 28:25
  bull in a China shop taking over the world. And she said, how about we start with just taking a deep breath and letting it out? And I have to say, I did that and I was like, okay, I guess I'll do that. And I let it out and I was like, oh, I feel so much better already. All right, I'm ready to go. She's like, hold. She's like, let me just tell you. She was a former AOL executive who had taken a buyout
• 28:53
  who knew all the trajectory of everything that I, the ladder I was already on. And I was like, oh, you were, you are. So, I mean, talk about the right messenger for me because in my mind I was like, well, you won't identify with what I'm going through because you didn't do this. And not only had she done it, but she had gone so far and she had gotten a buyout and decided to go and give back and wanted to serve and became a community mental health
• 29:20
  therapist and counselor. And thank God for me, because I spent the next couple of months having her really test some of my limiting beliefs, which was, you know, she's like, why not joy?
• 29:35
  Because I would have fun with friends, but this idea of being in a place of joy as a place of residing was so foreign to me because I was constantly agitated because I was constantly achieving and I was constantly in this go mode, go, go, go. And I was like, because if I lose my edge, I won't be able to get going again. I don't want to lose my edge. If I reside in a place of joy, I'm going to lose my edge. And she said, or...
• 30:04
  you're gonna get more masterful. So it's your decision. And remember thinking, that's so counter to what I understand. Maybe there's something to this. I just began,
• 30:17
  That began my personal development journey. I read every book. I, back then, listened to every CD. So for those that know that we didn't have streaming services, CD, and in some cases, cassette tapes, of all the masters at the time. So, you know, this was like the early days. So Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer and Stephen Covey and Marianne Williamson,
• 30:42
  at the beginning of their journeys of being out there publicly. And I would gobble it and I would go to I would go to their talks and I would watch the PBS specials. And I hired a coach. I hired a coach, you know, before coaching became a thing. I was hiring a coach. I was like, what do you mean coach? What is this? Are you joining a softball team? Like and I was like, no, like a mindset coach. This is coming back 26 years.
• 31:11
  And it really changed things because I went from achieving and being completely on empty.
• 31:20
  emotionally and maybe on the edge because if i got over tired my mind would just go right and i'd have like i'd completely come undone to my next decade in life just tick off and it was because of this concept of go within
• 31:42
  go within, go within. You have been looking outside of yourself your whole life for answers, for education, which was important for discernment. But like as if something outside of you was going to be better than you or you were gonna learn something that was gonna improve on who you are. And what kept coming back for me and up for me at that time was go within, settle down and go within yourself.
• 32:10
  get peaceful, sit with the discomfort, answers are going to come. Right.
• 32:19
  I am so fortunate that I get to do this because as everything aligned in your life, you know, it just, it just, it kept lining up for you. This is the perfect episode for me to hear. I mean, I can't stress enough on how yesterday I sat in my uncomfortable not knowing all day. And I still, it's so fire. I just, everything happens for you. And if you pay attention to the signs, they're always there. Now you were, you stayed friends with this therapist, right?
• 32:49
  I stayed with a friends with a therapist. I only worked with her for a few months, but because I was just so in tune to this, she kept saying, have you ever thought about going into this for a living? Like you're very self-aware. For someone who really was resistant to this, you're incredibly self-aware. Like this might be something for you to think about. I know you keep thinking what these traditional corporate roles
• 33:13
  But I think this might not actually be your true calling, like the foresight this woman had, right? And here's the reality. I do think that wherever you are planted, I was actually planted purposefully in a corporate setting because everything that I was working on and becoming, because for me, it was really slowly but surely taking off the layers of
• 33:41
  While I had a great story and a great appetite for growth, I still had a lot of limiting beliefs. And when I started to pull those back like layers of an onion, I was perfect for being sort of the oddball in a corporate setting because I became a much softer version of my badass self, which I think was surprising for a lot of people who knew me and saw me as...
• 34:10
  Not that I had sharp elbows, but I was just go, go, go. And all of a sudden I was asking people things like, what can I do for you? How may I serve? What do you need? Who are you? What are you about? I was very curious.
• 34:29
  You know, I frankly got out of my own thoughts and started really looking at other people. And that helped me get out of my own way and realized that my gift was I could speak corporate. I could really excel in this environment. You are, I don't even, I have no words for you. I wrote down here because...
• 34:51
  I bet you at the time, if you tried to say to anybody, any of your friends about your limiting beliefs, they would laugh at you. This is exactly how I feel right at this very moment. Like if I said to you, I don't feel loved or lovable, you'd be like, what? I mean, I have thousands of friends and especially in our group.
• 35:11
  But I don't. And it's just these limiting beliefs are crazy. So I want to go into your limiting. It's not about me. It's about you because there's so many women that listen to this podcast. I want to know what your limiting beliefs were and how you overcame them. So people know that they're not alone.
• 35:28
  I mean, probably the biggest limiting belief I had was around money because I did grow up with a lack of money. And I had parents who, you know, they taught me that the way you got ahead was you strive and work hard and then you amass money. And work was supposed to be hard,
• 35:49
  And that, you know, who cares if you didn't enjoy your work because works hard to suck it up buttercup. You know, that was the motto when I was younger. And so I was good at sucking up. I didn't mind. I was like, I'm not worried that it's tough or hard. I'm I'm harder than life. I can handle this stuff.
• 36:07
  and i'll oh and i'll i'll have fun when i'm when i've arrived but here was the big you know aha moment is each decade of my life went on i wasn't arriving in a place where i ever felt like i was done and so the limiting belief was it was never enough no matter how much money i ever had
• 36:31
  and I continued to amass, it felt like I needed more to feel safe and secure and more to feel safe and secure. And like, look, I've lived in a very expensive city. Things are realistically very expensive to live here. So you do need a certain level of income to live well. So there's no denying that. But it got him to a point where
• 36:55
  I got married, we worked together, the two of us working hard went from our incomes we had individually to doubling our income and doubling that income and doubling that income. And it still wasn't enough. Oh, you just said it, you just took it all. Yeah.
• 37:15
  Well, and so I'm going to paraphrase this, and you take it away because you're so much smarter than me. So what you were operating out of fear and lack instead of love and abundance, and the moment that you started operating out of love and abundance, it's an abundance mindset saying, I have enough, and then enjoying what we started about at the beginning, enjoying the process and divorcing the outcome, you experienced massive success. Is that fair? Yeah.
• 37:43
  I very much fair. And I would say, here's the thing. I was a successful VP and a corporate and studying for many, many years, but I felt stuck. I hadn't grown after kind of rising up. I kind of got there and I realized I'm stuck in the trenches. I hadn't really figured how to level up. I was all about the doing of the work. I hadn't really recognized the importance of the relationships that
• 38:08
  the way I do today, you know, I repeat a quote often, almost once every couple of weeks in my social media as a reminder to myself, the business of businesses relationships and the business of life is human connection. And when you invest in that way,
• 38:27
  as long as you know your stuff, generally speaking. I'm not trying to negate the importance of the hustle and grind in the early days of becoming knowledgeable about a field or about something you wanna become an expert on. But then there comes a point where one more iota of a hustle and grind isn't what's going to get you to the next level.
• 38:50
  And so you hear me talk a lot in our group about, hold on guys, yes, hustle and grind is important, particularly in the beginning, you gotta build, you gotta get there, but flow and alignment, flow and alignment, people, this is where we need to be operating from. So it's not that one is more important than the other, it's just that one comes into play at a certain point in time and overtakes the other.
• 39:15
  What I have achieved in flow and alignment, being authentic, being who I truly am publicly in all parts of myself and embodying that has taken me much higher, much quicker than the previous 40 something years of my life of hustle and grind. Ed Milet would fight you, I think, about the power of one more. But I think what they're speaking about are people that...
• 39:44
  maybe don't give 100%. I think that we wake up in the morning and we're giving, like 150% is coming. You know, it's like my feet hit the ground and the devil knows I'm up and better get out of my way. It's the same with you because of the fear of, and the lack, I get it. And I've slowed way down, but my producer, I'm gonna steal your quote right now. My producer said, being lazy might make you feel good, but it won't make you feel better.
• 40:11
  So that's never been in our vocabulary, but it's kind of what you just said. And make sure that we use what her quote was. Say it one more time because that's what I think the title of the episode should be. Say it one more time.
• 40:25
  The business of business is relationships. The business of life is human connection. This is a six-figure or seven-figure frigging call right here. They're going to be replaying this, replaying this, replaying this. I'm going to have you back after you're off and doing your own thing, and I'm going to ask you a favor because I remember you're a great writer, and I got a favor for you. Remember me asking you about this. I need a favor later. But we're going to continue on.
• 40:51
  I'm going to ask you some tough questions now. These are, what makes you happy? Oh, my son, my husband, time with them. I will say something that I couldn't always say, which is time by myself.
• 41:10
  Time by myself when I was younger used to drive me absolutely bonkers. Wow. Time by myself. I did not feel worthy. I did not have self-worth that I have today to be able to sit with myself and be at peace.
• 41:27
  I always felt like there was something better outside of me. And if I was surrounded by better people or something else, then I would feel more comfortable in my own. I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin. I didn't know what it meant to be authentic.
• 41:42
  This is a high functioning executive making bushels of cash, living the American dream and doesn't feel like enough. So if you feel that way. Well, now I do. I know. I mean, back in the day. As a younger person, absolutely. As a younger person, I would say probably not until I was well into my 30s did I recognize that I wasn't showing up as my authentic self.
• 42:05
  that i showed up at work as who i thought they needed me to be as an executive as a leader and then i went home and let my hair down and i have the real michelle came out on the weekends and in the evenings and let me tell you operating in those boxes is stifling and at some point it's going to catch up with you
• 42:27
  Wow, wow. It's amazing how we cope through life. I remember my stepfather used to say to me, and he's a son of a gun, he's physically, emotionally abusive, but there were some fricking good life lessons that he gave me, and it was, he used to say, idle time is the devil.
• 42:45
  which kind of says it would make me do something all the time. Even right now, if I'm sitting around, I'm reading, I'm listening to a podcast, I'm doing something, and I'm realizing, holy cow, am I grinding hard? I am in the arena. I got some, besides your amazing podcast, I got some big podcasts coming up with doing all kinds of prep. I've put so much pressure on myself, so the moral of the story is less is more.
• 43:15
  And everything will happen because you're not sitting around doing nothing. But that's really exciting. I'll say. Go ahead.
• 43:24
  I was going to say one of the most important lessons I've learned, I work with a lot of CEOs prepping them for media, for crisis situations. So I'm sort of a CEO or an executive whisperer. I interact with them as part of my daily course of life. And I will say the ones that are what I would consider the most emotionally intelligent and happiest.
• 43:48
  that being the key, because I really do care about living a joyful life. I think that's where you learn where your gifts are. Those that are in that space recognize the importance of being, not just doing. Like I evaluated my worth based on my productivity and output.
• 44:10
  And I didn't evaluate my worth. Like if I was in idle time, so to speak, I wasn't comfortable initially in my own skin. Now I recognize some of my most inspired ideas. Some of the places where I get the biggest downloads of where to go next in my life or what to tackle next come in being very quiet, very still,
• 44:38
  and being in a mode of receptivity rather than a mode of productivity. Where have you been all my life? I needed to hear this. We're 45 minutes into this, and I have 10 more questions, and I don't know how we're going to get through it because you're just...
• 44:56
  your next question is going to tee up what I want to ask you. By the time this airs, you will be ramping up your next stage of your life. Care to share what it is. And I'm going to tell you that you're going to be awesome at it. Extraordinary, as a matter of fact, because that's what it's called. And I can't wait to see you. This has been way better than I even thought it was going to be. And I had high expectations and it's exceeding that. So thank you.
• 45:23
  Oh, thank you. Well, so I feel like I've had a calling. I'll be honest, this has been a long time in coming. Another one. I knew back in my 20s, yeah. I knew back in my 20s when I started on that personal development journey, which is ongoing, right? It's not like I checked a box and was done. We constantly are at this.
• 45:43
  But when I started on that journey, I was touched deeply by it. And I was watching these people speak publicly and on stage. And I said, that's what I want to do one day. And I have been in school of life ever since getting ready for this moment. And honestly, there were things I needed to work on, my own fears, and
• 46:07
  uh, on lack and, and readiness that I had to, had to overcome and work through, um, that got me to the place I am today. So, you know, going back into the fall, I had a conversation with,
• 46:23
  my current CEO and founder of my company. And I was very honest. I said, I feel called to start working on some of these ideas around writing a book, watching a podcast, public speaking, really exploring, coaching people and serving people in new ways outside of this environment that we're currently in.
• 46:50
  Not leaving you because I'm unhappy. This has been the most phenomenal growth experience for me and really a playground for what comes next. Because I have stories and experiences that will serve me as I move forward. So this has been a long time in coming.
• 47:10
  We move forward. We've been working sort of like how to detangle from the stuff that I'm involved in in a way that is good for both our clients and for our company and our people. And so what I look at it is I'm taking a bit of a sabbatical, if you will.
• 47:29
  What comes next is gonna be me really leaning into my most authentic self, public speaking, writing, coaching, growing the podcast. And my motto behind it is finding new ways to serve, right? How can I serve in what I know I am called to do?
• 47:51
  I'm so proud of you. And we will still be affiliated. We'll still be affiliated because I never, you know, I don't leave people. Like, you know, it goes back to the motto. I take the relationships and the people with me. So I'm sure we will remain connected and I will, my phone will go off several times a week and I will happily take the calls and it'll just be part of my next part of my journey. We could just tell them to read the book or serum tour, which podcast episode you talk about that, but...
• 48:21
  Let me become a fan for a second and just say I can't wait because the wisdom that comes out of you every time I talk to you is just so far superior to what I know. I'm a CEO and I would sit with you daily and just absorb your knowledge and your energy and just...
• 48:39
  your positivity, which is going to go right into what I want to talk about next, which is daily habits and routines, which is it starts with boundaries and non-negotiables. Let's talk about what Wonder Woman uses for her non-negotiables. Tell me some of your non-negotiables in life.
• 48:57
  So for me, my morning routine has to start with some ease. I don't like jumping into the fray of email at 6 a.m. So I'm not part of the 5 a.m. club anymore, I will tell you that. I'm a little bit of a late starter. So I do feel a little guilty when I hear about everyone's been up since four and I've lost hours, but that's okay.
• 49:19
  but i do have um i read every morning i have to like you know what do they say garbage in garbage out so for me i start with inspirational reading um you know some of the things that i'm reading right now um i may you'll you probably will be familiar um i'm reading lao tzu on and the tao de ching um you know it's i'm rereading it i read it a long time ago and it's time to just sort of go back there and read some more and i i um
• 49:50
  You know, I really feel like the morning is when I set my, my intentions for the day. I'm big on affirmations. I do. Um.
• 50:01
  You know, I really do spend probably a good hour in quiet meditation. Wow. Now I have two big dogs. So I say try because they are often jumping all over me and trying to be part of the affirmation process and the stretching and all the stuff that's going on. So I have these two giant great Pyrenees that crawl all over me while this is happening. So it's a little bit of interrupted time, but it's okay. They're therapeutic.
• 50:30
  And then I have breakfast with my son every day before he goes to school. That's a non-negotiable.
• 50:38
  Early. I do the same thing. I just posted the other day. I have breakfast with, I mean, I only have her four days a week, but I have breakfast with her and dinner with her. We have sit downs and we talk about intentions and whatnot. Every day. Yeah, I love it. Even if dinner is pizza and even if breakfast is, you know, quick, we sit together. I want to know that my day and my intentions and his day and his intentions are set in a way that puts us in the best mind space.
• 51:06
  to have a good day. I have an odd question that's off the, it's not even on here. Do you drink alcohol? I do, I'm not a big drinker, but I would say, I'll have, and I'm not a, I don't like beer, so I'm not a beer drinker. I don't really enjoy a wide variety of alcohols. You will find this not surprising. I like really good champagne. And so on a birthday,
• 51:36
  On Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve, I'll have a glass or two of really good champagne. If you buy the really expensive stuff, you drink it really slowly. Yeah, so I don't know what it's drinking. I'm sorry, I don't. I don't really enjoy it.
• 51:54
  I'm going to start asking people that because I'm getting so much, not so much, but blowback from people that I really care about that I'd like for them to examine. They're sober curious. You can kind of tell my whole life changed when I when I decided to just refrain from alcohol. I mean, I don't go to programs, but it just I wasted so much time and energy. And I just I'm going to start asking because you interact with a bunch of CEOs. You're a high achieving person. So I just want to know what that looks like. What do you want your legacy to be?
• 52:26
  Oh, this is a good one, Kelly. I think that I made an impact, that my life mattered, that people felt loved, that my presence in their lives made them feel better about being themselves, being cared for. I mean, to be honest, it goes back to my grandmother.
• 52:53
  My grandmother, I sat there and said she was probably one of the few people I could say loved me unconditionally. I felt most authentic around her. I felt loved no matter what. I felt safe in my own skin around her. And I want people to feel that way about me. I mean, that would be a gift.
• 53:20
  I wanted you to know, and this is not a line, it's not a coin, I love you and I feel better having you as a friend. And our group is just amazing and you're amazing. And I just, I feel the love. So thank you. And we've only just begun our relationship. So you have a positive impact on me and it's hard to have a positive impact on me. Well, and it's mutual. I love you right back. Define success for me.
• 53:51
  Oh, this is a good one. And I talk about this with my kid all the time. Success for me is showing up as my most authentic self. It took me a long time, 40 something years to get to this place where I could say unequivocally, if I show up as the most authentic version of myself, then I'm winning.
• 54:12
  Man, I hope young people are listening to this. This is fire. Thank you for being just so raw and it's so right. Where will you be in 10 years? I will be writing book number four, maybe. And you've wrote zero right now, right? I'm currently writing a book. Yeah. Book four. So she's throwing it out there. I love that. Book four.
• 54:42
  I like the idea of a book every two to three years. So that gives me some space, right?
• 54:50
  No, that's right. They say that mine came out last year. Well, this year, early this year. And I was, I already got notes for book two. Publisher said, hold on, sit back and enjoy this one. And he's like, next year we'll do it. So I was like, are you sure? He's like, yes. So next year I will start writing and I'm going to fast track that one because I know what I didn't know. And anytime you want help, I will, I will explain you some of the things that are crazy. Like
• 55:14
  The audio book still hasn't come out yet, even though I recorded it two months ago. It's just, it's a crazy business, but that's awesome. Book four books. Book four, but I also hope that I am, and this I say sincerely, that I have recognized the importance of having a schedule that has more free time. Because, and I say this because I do think when you are creating content,
• 55:43
  high energy high impact work you do need to find the time to invest in yourself in different ways and i think if you're okay go back to where i was at 26 if you're constantly go go go and you have a packed schedule never ending and there doesn't there isn't that time to just read for leisure to be with people that
• 56:08
  inspire you that can hold the vibration for you. Like last Saturday night, I was at a friend's birthday party at their house. We were sitting there with our children, um, three couples and all of our children playing cranium.
• 56:24
  Simple game, we were laughing and howling and hooting and it was great stress relief and just good fun. And the vibration of everyone in that room was high. So it wasn't like I had to hold the vibe for others. There are people in my life like you, Kelly, who meet me at that space, that hold the space for when I need it held. And that's really,
• 56:52
  You know, it's so refreshing because I do think there was a point in time where I surrounded myself by groups of people, some of whom were energy vampires, and I didn't really recognize that. So I want to be in a place where I recognize the importance of time with people to recharge and.
• 57:16
  Not talking about a business plan, not talking about the next program we're gonna develop, just enjoying each other's company. And I love this stuff. Like I could sit at a dinner table and talk for hours about what matters in life to us, stories that we've experienced and sharing back and forth because this to me is living. This to me is real.
• 57:44
  Two things that I say over and over is I want peace and freedom. And it's exactly what you just said. And then you just moved me when you said read for fun. And I don't ever, I don't, I don't think I do anything for fun anymore, but a lot of what I do to advance my being is fun to me, but I still need to incorporate some more fun. So like this morning I just ordered, um,
• 58:04
  New golf clubs because I vowed I'm going to play golf more. And because I love to be outside. And then I just ordered my second Harley. I have one in Florida and one here because I like to drive and just let the wind hit my face and just clear. I don't have enough.
• 58:21
  I am in grind mode right now, and I got to slow down a little bit because I'm pushing way too hard. So that's why everything you've said, I'm going to adjust and adapt. And this is, if I can take it, then everybody can take it.
• 58:37
  Well, and I think here's the thing for people like you and a lot of the folks that we know, there is a level of effort in order to create the momentum and to have the impact we want to have that's necessary.
• 58:53
  So when I say I really want to put an end to the hustle and grind culture, it's not because I don't believe that hard work is incredibly important. I think it is critical and you have to put in the time. But I would argue.
• 59:10
  that if you build in the downtime, if you build in the leisure, which I think that word has bad connotations. For me, travel is one of those. When I travel, people are like, oh, you're so lucky you're on vacation. And I say, I don't call it a vacation. I call it my life's work because when I go out in the world, I meet people.
• 59:32
  I gather new stories, I gather new information, and it inspires me and takes my work to a new level. It takes my thinking to a new place. So in the midst of that grind and hustle, I do think finding the space for inspired moments rather than cranking them out is where you're gonna get bigger lifts than a constant day in, day out grind. So I feel like it's the turbo charge for me.
• 1:00:01
  I spend like I'm up at 10, 11 o'clock and you guys have gone to bed because you're getting up at four and I'm still writing. So I'm a little bit on the schedule that I will end up looking at again and saying, OK, is that the best time for me to be writing? But I will say this. I then will have this download after a day of just writing.
• 1:00:25
  being in state of freedom. So for you, it might be being on the Harley. For me, it might be out in the woods with the dogs. And I don't schedule any interviews and I'm not scheduling homework for me. And I'm not writing to get another chapter done. I'm just existing in the world. I'm just being. And that's when like, here's a good idea. Another good idea. Another good idea. Because I've allowed the space. That just goes in creating space.
• 1:00:54
  That's, that's you, you've slowed down a little bit to create the space for that to happen instead of go, go, go. And you just, it's, that's, that is worth its weight in gold. You're, you're fire. I got it. We're, we're up against the time, but, and I got some questions I still got to ask you. Is, has there been one book that you would recommend? Like mine is a four agreements bar none. I, I, I buy every time I go into a bookstore, I buy every four agreements and I hand it out to people. Has there been one book that has changed your life, so to speak, that you recommend to everybody? Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  Yeah, you know, it's kind of an older book, and I don't know that it's particularly well written, but the concept and the content are profound. And that's Wayne Dyer's You'll See It When You Believe It. Do you know it? I didn't. I've read a lot of Wayne Dyer's work. I'm going to. I think I have that one. It's hard to read. You'll see it when you believe it.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah, it's the inverse of the actual phrase that we usually say to ourselves, which is you'll believe it, I'll believe it when I see it. And what he's saying is you'll see it when you believe it, right? It's what we know. When we know in our heart that it's coming, or that it's here, and we really stay in that state of it's real for me, then it starts actually materializing in our life.
• 1:02:14
  It's as much as powerful as, yeah, the stories that we tell ourselves or the language, the power of the words we use. So I will tell you. It's my next question. So go right into it. Talk about the power of the words you speak into the world in existence. Because I know this is your big thing. That was my next question. So sorry, you're going right into it. Keep going.
• 1:02:37
  Yeah, you know, I used to think when I was younger that I had to be brutally honest with everyone about everything I was feeling, right? So Michelle, how was your day? Oh, it was such a long day. I'm so exhausted. I have so much on my plate. And I would just be the Eeyore of my life.
• 1:02:56
  And now I'm very conscientious of every word that comes out of my mouth. Now, does that mean I don't have days where I am muttering several words that we shall not repeat on air? No, there are days I get angry, frustrated, sad, all the things. But I'm mindful of the power of my words. So when someone says to me, hey, Michelle, how are you doing?
• 1:03:18
  You'll probably hear me say something like, I'm doing fabulous, I'm doing fantastic, thank you so much for asking. How are you? Because I am striving to stay in that state. Now, when I'm having a bad day and things are sad and bad things have happened, I don't sugarcoat it. I'll say, well, it's not been the best of times because this is what's happening.
• 1:03:39
  But by recognizing that my state of being is influenced by the words I used, I don't stay stuck in the feelings of grief and sadness and anger and bitterness and frustration. I might feel them and I allow myself to feel them.
• 1:03:56
  I don't let them unravel me. I say like something might rattle me in the moment, but it will not unravel me. It will not be my undoing because my state of mind and the way I process my words and my intentions serve at the highest level of my being. So yeah, there are days where I am not my best self, like everybody, but I'll tell you over the course of the day, I'll realize and I'll hear myself,
• 1:04:24
  And I'm able to course correct pretty quickly. Doesn't mean I don't have down moments. I do. But I go through them. I walk through them. Just like you were having struggles. I had a struggle the other day. I was like, am I on this right? Is this path the right path? Am I on the right path? Am I making a dent in the universe? Does it matter what I'm doing?
• 1:04:46
  Believe in the invisible progress. The other thing is, is there's three things that I say to myself when I'm, when I'm not feeling great, because I want people to know that I want to be authentic and genuine. I say, I'm, I'm in my fields. I'm in the arena. And the third one is, I'm fighting the good fight.
• 1:05:02
  Those are the three things that I say when I'm having a bad day. And I, because I'm not going to sit back and I'm not going to, there's just no way that I'm, my bad day, most people would fight, would aspire to have. And truthfully, it's just when I'm in my head. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we lose sight of that. But when you're ever feeling in this place of just uncertainty, for me, what's always resulted in anxiety,
• 1:05:30
  kind of parting of the Red Sea, if you will, is when you remind yourself, okay, I surrender, not feeling inspired, not feeling like I'm in making any traction. Under, and then ask yourself out loud to the universe, how may I serve?
• 1:05:45
  Please text me that. I'm here for a reason. When you see my post the next time, just text me that. We got to wrap it up, but I wanted to say one more thing. Remember what you just said in reverse is negativity begets negativity. Positivity begets positivity. So if you're going to sit and you're a negative person and you're always negative, Natalie, you're never going to get out of it.
• 1:06:03
  And I'm just saying that for the listeners, because we all know those are the energy vampires. Everything is always wrong to the energy vampires. They have a problem for every solution. So if you're like that, the first and easiest thing, Michelle just gave you the anecdote to do this. Speak to yourself better. Speak positively. That's harder than life. Michelle, I didn't even get through all the questions because I can't. We're up against it. How can I personally support you?
• 1:06:31
  Oh, come listen in on the podcast. We are going to be talking together on the podcast. Oh, I've listened to you already. You're fantastic. We're on it next week. I'm so excited. And wait till I get in on your podcast. You better be ready. I'm going to bring it. I'm so excited. I cannot wait. May 31st can't get here fast enough. May 31st is a big day. But, you know, look, I think each day.
• 1:07:01
  For me, I'm hoping June 1st feels not that it's so different, but that I'm already in motion, right? That I'm already moving it in motion and that it just continues to get better and better. Awesome. I want to remind the listeners that each and every episode is sponsored by National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day. Until next week, be harder than life.
• 1:07:28
  Thank you for listening. Please rate and subscribe to Harder Than Life, and let's take this to the next level. Get connected at the links below.