Latest / Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing / #187| Does Your Time Management Lack Meaning? How Swapping Habits for Rituals Can Help

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#187| Does Your Time Management Lack Meaning? How Swapping Habits for Rituals Can Help · Overwhelmed Working Woman: Boost Productivity, Master Time Management, Overcome Overwhelm & Stop People Pleasing

• 0:00
  DanielleMcGeough: If you are in a space where you're feeling flat, you feel like you're just checking off all the boxes, more habits is not going to add more meaning to your life.
• 0:14
  MichelleGauthier: You're listening to Overwhelmed Working Woman, the podcast that helps you be more calm and more productive by doing less.
• 0:21
  MichelleGauthier: I'm your host, Michelle Gauthier, a former Overwhelmed Working Woman and current life coach.
• 0:26
  MichelleGauthier: On this show, we unpack the stress and pressure that today's working woman experiences.
• 0:31
  MichelleGauthier: And in each episode, you'll get a strategy to bring more calm, ease, and relaxation to your life.
• 0:41
  MichelleGauthier: Hi, friend.
• 0:42
  MichelleGauthier: I have a very interesting episode for you today.
• 0:44
  MichelleGauthier: I'm joined by Danielle McGeough, and she is the creator of something called the Rise Ritual Method.
• 0:50
  MichelleGauthier: And she offers sort of a refreshing perspective on how to plan your time and how to avoid burnout before it happens to you.
• 0:58
  MichelleGauthier: And instead of filing on habits and routines, she shows us how simple intentional rituals instead of routines can help us connect with our values and shift our energy and just bring more joy into everyday life.
• 1:12
  MichelleGauthier: I loved this conversation and she helped me come up with a great new ritual that I've been doing ever since I interviewed her.
• 1:19
  MichelleGauthier: When you listen today, you'll learn the difference between habits and rituals.
• 1:23
  MichelleGauthier: I did not know the difference, and why rituals are key when you're feeling sort of flat or disconnected, and then how to identify if you're experiencing burnout or just demoralization and what to do about it.
• 1:36
  MichelleGauthier: And then practical ways to create your own rituals that make transitions smoother from work to home or stress to calm.
• 1:44
  MichelleGauthier: And she's just has such a fun personality, and many of her suggestions are about just bringing more fun and lightness into your life, which I just thoroughly believe is a very important part of our way too serious life.
• 1:58
  MichelleGauthier: If you're looking for a more meaningful, energized way to move through your day, this is the episode for you.
• 2:07
  MichelleGauthier: Welcome, Danielle.
• 2:08
  MichelleGauthier: Thanks so much for joining the podcast today.
• 2:10
  MichelleGauthier: All the overwhelmed working women listening are going to be so excited to hear what you have to say.
• 2:15
  MichelleGauthier: I'm really excited to learn about your RISE framework that you use and how you use rituals to help people get unstuck.
• 2:22
  MichelleGauthier: So I can't wait to hear about all that.
• 2:24
  MichelleGauthier: But first, tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 2:25
  MichelleGauthier: How did you get started doing this type of work?
• 2:29
  DanielleMcGeough: So growing up, I was the weird kid.
• 2:34
  DanielleMcGeough: I was really weird.
• 2:36
  DanielleMcGeough: And all of my report cards describe me as unique.
• 2:39
  DanielleMcGeough: And I was definitely not a smart kid.
• 2:41
  DanielleMcGeough: But for some reason, when I was 20, I decided I wanted to get a PhD.
• 2:46
  DanielleMcGeough: And everyone was like, hmm, that's an interesting choice, Danielle.
• 2:49
  DanielleMcGeough: And because then I was the weird kid and I didn't think of myself as a smart kid, as I did all the things that one needs to do to get a PhD, get the master's degree, go to school, get the tenure track job, like all that stuff.
• 3:04
  DanielleMcGeough: I told myself that in order to do it, I was gonna have to work twice as hard.
• 3:08
  DanielleMcGeough: And so by the time I was 35, I had just had my first kiddo, and my second kiddo was on the way, and I learned that I did earn tenure, which was the goal I'd been working towards my entire adult life.
• 3:22
  DanielleMcGeough: And you know what?
• 3:23
  DanielleMcGeough: I just didn't flipping care.
• 3:25
  DanielleMcGeough: I didn't care.
• 3:26
  DanielleMcGeough: Dang, I felt nothing.
• 3:29
  DanielleMcGeough: I felt flat.
• 3:30
  DanielleMcGeough: I felt empty.
• 3:31
  DanielleMcGeough: I had no idea what was next.
• 3:33
  DanielleMcGeough: I felt so disconnected and disassociated from all of the things that you know.
• 3:38
  DanielleMcGeough: If you would ask me, well, Danielle, what do you enjoy doing for fun?
• 3:40
  DanielleMcGeough: I would stay with what what fun?
• 3:43
  DanielleMcGeough: No.
• 3:43
  DanielleMcGeough: And and I just knew that that's not how I wanted to continue to live.
• 3:50
  DanielleMcGeough: I'm a pretty playful person.
• 3:51
  DanielleMcGeough: I've always wanted to live a really rich, expansive life, and that was not the path that I was on.
• 3:57
  DanielleMcGeough: Somewhere along the way, I had just started checking off boxes and it left me flat.
• 4:04
  MichelleGauthier: That is such a bummer, especially when you've been working so hard for it, and you're like, oh shoot.
• 4:10
  MichelleGauthier: And I thought this was gonna be the path, but this is not the path.
• 4:15
  DanielleMcGeough: No, and you know, I remember they were having a big dinner actually for us to celebrate everyone that had gotten promotions.
• 4:23
  DanielleMcGeough: And I remember being so ticked off that I had to get a sitter, dress up nice, and go to work on at a time that was not my work time so that they can celebrate me.
• 4:36
  DanielleMcGeough: And I, you know, I was like, you know, Danielle, this is probably a sign that something isn't right.
• 4:41
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah, yes.
• 4:42
  MichelleGauthier: Good job listening to Danielle in that case.
• 4:45
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, so then what did you do?
• 4:48
  DanielleMcGeough: Well, so I had a student give a presentation on decorative planning, and she pulled out this beautiful planner that had stickers and doodles and all sorts of things on it, and she was explaining that her therapist had recommended that she use decorative planning as a way to help manage her anxiety.
• 5:09
  DanielleMcGeough: Basically, she wasn't doing any scheduling, she wasn't creating a to-do list or doing any of those things that would help her because every time she did, she just felt absolutely overwhelmed.
• 5:20
  DanielleMcGeough: So I don't know if any of you all have sat down and you're like, okay, I'm gonna write my to-do list.
• 5:24
  DanielleMcGeough: And rather than it creating clarity, you just feel like, oh my gosh, it just keeps going.
• 5:30
  MichelleGauthier: Absolutely.
• 5:31
  MichelleGauthier: That's something I hear all the time.
• 5:32
  MichelleGauthier: So I can feel everyone shaking their heads, yes, along with you.
• 5:37
  DanielleMcGeough: And so it was like, okay, stickers are fun.
• 5:40
  DanielleMcGeough: Let's go.
• 5:41
  DanielleMcGeough: Why not?
• 5:42
  DanielleMcGeough: And at the time I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and I was waking up in the middle of the night, and I thought, you know what?
• 5:51
  DanielleMcGeough: I'm just gonna get out some stickers in the middle of the night, and we're gonna do some planning.
• 5:56
  DanielleMcGeough: And as I did that, I started to realize though, that planning for me was less about control.
• 6:01
  DanielleMcGeough: It was less about time management, and it was more about me learning about myself.
• 6:06
  DanielleMcGeough: It was about reconnecting.
• 6:08
  DanielleMcGeough: Well, what are my values and why am I not living them on my calendar every week?
• 6:13
  DanielleMcGeough: And, you know, what is going on here?
• 6:16
  DanielleMcGeough: That whenever I have these items on my calendar, I feel absolutely drained afterwards.
• 6:22
  DanielleMcGeough: And so for me, planning became more about personal revelation than about control or management of anything.
• 6:32
  DanielleMcGeough: So that's really kind of how I came to this.
• 6:35
  DanielleMcGeough: And I started hosting planning parties at the university, I started hosting planning parties in the community.
• 6:40
  DanielleMcGeough: I had a group of goal get them girls where we were just getting together and cheering each other on and supporting each other.
• 6:47
  DanielleMcGeough: And and I just had so much to say.
• 6:49
  DanielleMcGeough: I thought I'd start a podcast, and then you know, I don't know, it all unfolded.
• 6:53
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, yes, and here you are with your podcast in the top 1.5% now, right?
• 6:59
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, it's it's bananas.
• 7:01
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, it's so crazy.
• 7:03
  MichelleGauthier: Oh my gosh.
• 7:04
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, it's funny for people who don't have a podcast.
• 7:06
  MichelleGauthier: When you sit down and you record, especially when you're by yourself, and in my case, I'm like doing it in my house, in my office, and then all of a sudden you're like, so all these people actually listen, they hear this.
• 7:16
  MichelleGauthier: It's crazy, it's a weird feeling.
• 7:19
  DanielleMcGeough: It really is.
• 7:20
  DanielleMcGeough: It's yes, it's also such a joy and and such an awesome way to connect with people.
• 7:25
  DanielleMcGeough: So I'm tickled that you're letting me into your little world.
• 7:29
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, it is.
• 7:30
  MichelleGauthier: It's so great.
• 7:31
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, so one thing I want to pick up on before we start talking through your methodology is the approach.
• 7:38
  MichelleGauthier: A lot of times we talk about getting things done, getting our time squared away, and it comes from like a forcing energy.
• 7:47
  MichelleGauthier: Like I've got to shove all this stuff into time blocks and then I've got to knock it out.
• 7:51
  MichelleGauthier: And I'm sure there is some value to that.
• 7:54
  MichelleGauthier: And if if you are doing that and that works for you, that's great.
• 7:57
  MichelleGauthier: But I love that you were thinking about it in a completely different way, almost like that you weren't actually planning.
• 8:03
  MichelleGauthier: You were just understanding yourself, your values, how you liked to spend your time.
• 8:08
  MichelleGauthier: And for example, you know, starting a planning party because it sounded like fun, or starting a podcast because it sounded interesting is such a fresh look on time management.
• 8:21
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah.
• 8:22
  DanielleMcGeough: And well, I think that I came to it, and I think a lot of the people that I work with now feel like goal setting, for example, just sounds like adding more pressure to your already pressure-filled life.
• 8:36
  DanielleMcGeough: So when I, you know, I wanted to set goals because I was trying to figure out what was next, but I was just like, holy smokes, like, really, we're gonna add something more to the mix.
• 8:46
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, and it felt so heavy.
• 8:50
  DanielleMcGeough: And so it had never occurred to me that, well, maybe my goal is to go on a mini date with my husband once a week, or maybe my goal is to create more space in my calendar, or maybe my goal is to go around the lazy river 93 times this summer with my kids.
• 9:07
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, and I just had never thought that like, well, like make it delightful, you ding bat.
• 9:12
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 9:15
  MichelleGauthier: Exactly.
• 9:16
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, so so far I'm taking away two things from you that everybody listening can take away.
• 9:21
  MichelleGauthier: Number one, if you worked really hard for a goal and you got to that goal and it wasn't the thing, you can still have a delightful life.
• 9:27
  MichelleGauthier: It's never too late.
• 9:28
  MichelleGauthier: Just you can lean into what you really like and what you're interested in.
• 9:32
  MichelleGauthier: And then the second thing is you can think about time management as also being interesting and fun and having goals that sound good to you.
• 9:41
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, so now tell us the how.
• 9:43
  MichelleGauthier: How do you teach people to do that?
• 9:47
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, so one of the things that I have people start with is I actually have them create a ritual.
• 9:53
  DanielleMcGeough: And the reason for this is rituals help transition us from one state to another.
• 9:59
  DanielleMcGeough: And I want people to have a little container, if you will, for their planning.
• 10:04
  DanielleMcGeough: And so, really quickly, when we think about making our lives better, if you're an overachiever, you may have found yourself going, you know what, I'm just gonna habit my way out of this, right?
• 10:15
  DanielleMcGeough: I'm gonna create more habits, we're gonna stack some more habits, we're gonna get some good routines, and then maybe my life is gonna feel easier.
• 10:23
  DanielleMcGeough: And that's very much where I was.
• 10:25
  DanielleMcGeough: And it took me a really long time to realize this because in my own research, I'd been studying this, but I just hadn't made the connection that habits really are designed to eventually become unconscious.
• 10:38
  DanielleMcGeough: Whereas rituals are designed to actually evoke presence and to transition us from one state to another.
• 10:46
  MichelleGauthier: And so I love that.
• 10:48
  MichelleGauthier: I want to like highlight that.
• 10:50
  MichelleGauthier: Say that one more time for everybody so they're clear on the difference.
• 10:55
  DanielleMcGeough: So habits, they're really helpful.
• 10:57
  DanielleMcGeough: I don't think that habits are bad.
• 10:59
  DanielleMcGeough: I just think that we need to discern where in our lives do we want to consciously have habits that become become unconscious, and where in our lives do we want to have rituals?
• 11:10
  DanielleMcGeough: So the nice thing about habits is they they do eventually let us work on autopilot.
• 11:16
  DanielleMcGeough: But if you are in a space where you're feeling flat, you feel like you're just checking off all the boxes, more habits is not going to add more meaning to your life.
• 11:25
  DanielleMcGeough: So for me, doing the dishes absolutely can be a habit.
• 11:30
  DanielleMcGeough: Like bring it on.
• 11:31
  DanielleMcGeough: I don't need to be present for it.
• 11:33
  DanielleMcGeough: Sorry, Trin Nakhan, who talks about the mindfulness of doing the dishes.
• 11:37
  DanielleMcGeough: For me, I'm good to pop in a headphone, listen to a good podcast like this one, and to zone out and get the work done.
• 11:47
  DanielleMcGeough: You know, but when it comes to thinking about my time, I don't want that to become just like a habit that I look at my calendar, check, check, check, I make my to-do list, check, check, check.
• 11:58
  DanielleMcGeough: I want to be present, I want to be intentional, and I want it to be conscious.
• 12:01
  DanielleMcGeough: And so that's where I really think about a ritual being something that can transition me from one state to another.
• 12:09
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, I love that.
• 12:11
  MichelleGauthier: Perfect.
• 12:12
  MichelleGauthier: So you encourage people, if they're feeling stuck, to think about rituals versus habits.
• 12:17
  MichelleGauthier: Absolutely.
• 12:19
  DanielleMcGeough: So I like people to pinpoint different places in their day that they might be in a space of transition.
• 12:27
  DanielleMcGeough: And that's where rituals are especially helpful.
• 12:32
  DanielleMcGeough: So when you wake up in the morning, if you already have a morning routine, what it would be like to transition that, adapt that into a morning ritual.
• 12:42
  DanielleMcGeough: If you at the end of your workday have a busy brain, and it's really hard for you to shut off work brain, you're after school picking up your kids or at the park, you're thinking about everything that you need to do at the office.
• 12:56
  DanielleMcGeough: Well, how can we use a ritual to actually aid us in that transition so that we can be present for our families and shut work brain off, but also have some confidence that when we show up at work the next morning, we can turn it back on.
• 13:12
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah.
• 13:12
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah. So what do you recommend?
• 13:13
  DanielleMcGeough: S So I teach something called the rise ritual method.
• 13:19
  DanielleMcGeough: And it is fun and simple and delightful.
• 13:23
  DanielleMcGeough: So the first part of it is reflect.
• 13:27
  DanielleMcGeough: So I like people to reflect and say, well, what is the state that you're in?
• 13:31
  DanielleMcGeough: And what's your desired state?
• 13:33
  DanielleMcGeough: So, for example, it's after work you feel like busy Betty and you want to be relaxed, Rita.
• 13:40
  DanielleMcGeough: How do you just name that?
• 13:41
  DanielleMcGeough: In the morning, I wake up and I am actually.
• 13:44
  DanielleMcGeough: I wake up and I'm like, let's go, let's go, let's go.
• 13:48
  DanielleMcGeough: For my husband, he wakes up and he's groggy and he's grumpy and he's slow.
• 13:54
  DanielleMcGeough: And so I need a morning ritual that grounds me.
• 13:58
  DanielleMcGeough: I need something to pull me down, to get me focused, to take all the stuff that's buzzing around my head and pull it together.
• 14:05
  DanielleMcGeough: Where for my husband, he needs a ritual that's going to amp him up.
• 14:10
  DanielleMcGeough: He needs something that's going to energize him, something that's going to bring up his state and that's going to just give him focus by being energized.
• 14:20
  DanielleMcGeough: So how we design those rituals is going to be different, but we first need to be able to reflect and name what is our current state and what's the desired state that we want to move to.
• 14:31
  MichelleGauthier: I love that.
• 14:32
  MichelleGauthier: That's so great.
• 14:33
  MichelleGauthier: I actually talk to my clients a lot about transitioning from work to home.
• 14:38
  MichelleGauthier: And I've never considered exactly what you're saying, which is like, what energy are you in?
• 14:43
  MichelleGauthier: Maybe you're in the energy of exhaustion and you need a ritual that will give you more energy, or maybe you need to relax or whatever it is.
• 14:52
  MichelleGauthier: But I love that idea.
• 14:52
  MichelleGauthier: That's such a great idea.
• 14:54
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah.
• 14:55
  DanielleMcGeough: And then so from there, you intentionally plan.
• 14:57
  DanielleMcGeough: And that is just kind of naming the when and where of your ritual.
• 15:04
  DanielleMcGeough: So when are you going to do your ritual?
• 15:06
  DanielleMcGeough: How long do you want to do it for?
• 15:08
  DanielleMcGeough: Where are you going to do it?
• 15:10
  DanielleMcGeough: And as you make those decisions, you also want those decisions to help move you closer to that desired state that you're going for.
• 15:19
  DanielleMcGeough: So, for example, I do like to have a morning ritual that I have a one-minute version of, one that I have like a 15-minute version of, and I have an hour-long cozy version of.
• 15:31
  DanielleMcGeough: And depending on my day, like this morning, I had a meeting that was earlier than I typically have to go to meetings for.
• 15:39
  DanielleMcGeough: I needed to have a quicker morning ritual, but it still has those elements there to move me there.
• 15:45
  DanielleMcGeough: I want to think about where I'm going to do my ritual.
• 15:48
  DanielleMcGeough: If at all possible, can I do it in a space that's going to invite that desired state that I'm working to move to?
• 15:56
  DanielleMcGeough: But I would also say make it easy.
• 16:00
  DanielleMcGeough: Yes.
• 16:01
  DanielleMcGeough: You know, do it where you're most likely to be consistent with it.
• 16:06
  DanielleMcGeough: So the client that I was just actually referencing before, busy Betty moves to relaxed Rita, she is a teacher, and she needed a way to turn off her brain after work and then to kind of just reset before she went into her home.
• 16:22
  DanielleMcGeough: So we actually created a little ritual box that she kept in her car and she'd pull into her driveway, actually do a quick ritual in her garage in the driveway, and then she would go into her home.
• 16:35
  DanielleMcGeough: Because that was a way that she knew that she could do it.
• 16:38
  DanielleMcGeough: Because if she tried to do it at work, people would interrupt her.
• 16:40
  DanielleMcGeough: But if she tried to do it when she first got home, kids would be all over.
• 16:44
  MichelleGauthier: Yes.
• 16:45
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah.
• 16:45
  DanielleMcGeough: So, you know, do it where you can.
• 16:48
  MichelleGauthier: I love that.
• 16:48
  MichelleGauthier: Oh my gosh.
• 16:49
  MichelleGauthier: So, what was in her box?
• 16:51
  DanielleMcGeough: If you can share.
• 16:52
  DanielleMcGeough: Okay.
• 16:53
  DanielleMcGeough: So the next part of the rise ritual method is the S, which is sensory activation.
• 16:59
  DanielleMcGeough: Okay.
• 17:00
  DanielleMcGeough: And so one of the things that's how do we make this a fully embodied experience?
• 17:04
  DanielleMcGeough: And how do we invite the senses?
• 17:06
  DanielleMcGeough: And so for Busy Betty moving to relax Rita, I do believe that she had, she decided to use, I think, some sort of lotion she put on her hand, baby, that smelled really, really good.
• 17:21
  DanielleMcGeough: She has that tactile experience too of putting it on her hands.
• 17:26
  DanielleMcGeough: Were pen snobs?
• 17:27
  DanielleMcGeough: So I remember she and I having a conversation about choosing the right pen that she could, you know, keep from her kids stealing from her in her car and making sure that she was pairing it with paper that just felt juicy to write on.
• 17:43
  DanielleMcGeough: And so, how do you kind of create these sensorial experiences that one move you to the state that you want to be in, but also just feel good?
• 17:53
  DanielleMcGeough: And so, you know, for some people, their ritual might include tactile things.
• 17:59
  DanielleMcGeough: For others, it might be smell or sound.
• 18:01
  DanielleMcGeough: She might have also been playing some music on her drive home that kind of helped her get in the state before she started her ritual.
• 18:09
  DanielleMcGeough: And, you know, for example, in the morning, I have a cozy blanket that's super, super soft that I use as part of my morning ritual.
• 18:18
  DanielleMcGeough: And that's great because it helps ground me and calm me.
• 18:21
  DanielleMcGeough: But like if my husband were to grab a cozy blanket and he's groggy, he's just gonna fall back to sleep.
• 18:29
  MichelleGauthier: Yes.
• 18:29
  MichelleGauthier: Oh my gosh.
• 18:30
  MichelleGauthier: Same with my partner.
• 18:31
  MichelleGauthier: It would be like, good night.
• 18:33
  MichelleGauthier: Yes.
• 18:33
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah.
• 18:34
  DanielleMcGeough: And so you have to also choose sensorial experiences that are gonna move you to that state that you desire to be in.
• 18:42
  DanielleMcGeough: And so choosing to activate your senses in a way that's in alignment with where you want to go is really important.
• 18:50
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah, that's as you're saying this, it's making me realize that when I'm getting ready for bed, I will often, and I was doing this unconsciously, but now that you're saying this, I'm like, hmm, I really need to hone in on that.
• 19:02
  MichelleGauthier: There's this certain, it's called everyday oil, it's just a body oil, and I love the smell.
• 19:07
  MichelleGauthier: And because I often put it on before bed, it just sort of automatically makes me feel relaxed.
• 19:12
  MichelleGauthier: And so sometimes I'll just do like a little, you know, thing of it and like rub it on my chest and my neck.
• 19:16
  MichelleGauthier: And now I'm thinking that could just so easily turn into a ritual.
• 19:21
  DanielleMcGeough: Absolutely.
• 19:22
  DanielleMcGeough: And one of the things that I you're kind of bringing up that is important to note is that both uh rituals and routines are a series of actions that we do.
• 19:35
  DanielleMcGeough: Sometimes you can transition a routine into a ritual just by shifting your posture towards it.
• 19:42
  DanielleMcGeough: You might already have the elements there, but it's just like I want to be present for this, I want to I want it to be really intentional, and I want to know what it's moving me towards.
• 19:55
  DanielleMcGeough: That alone, so you might have that same bedtime ritual, Michelle, that you're already doing.
• 20:03
  DanielleMcGeough: You may not have to do anything different, but change your posture towards it.
• 20:07
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah, I love that actually, because I could tell you all the steps that I do, but I would rather do it in silence.
• 20:14
  MichelleGauthier: Sometimes I'll like have something playing or be talking to one of my kids.
• 20:18
  MichelleGauthier: I would just like to take five minutes and like I love washing my face.
• 20:22
  MichelleGauthier: I have this balm, I like give myself a little face massage, I put that oil on that I was talking about, take my medicine, all those things.
• 20:28
  MichelleGauthier: So I could easily do that and I will do it starting tonight.
• 20:32
  DanielleMcGeough: I love that.
• 20:33
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, and and so then the E in the rise ritual method is to embody it.
• 20:38
  DanielleMcGeough: It's how to think about okay, when this ritual is over, how do I keep living the state that I've transformed to?
• 20:49
  DanielleMcGeough: How do I make sure that I hold on to that feeling even as the ritual itself has ended?
• 20:56
  DanielleMcGeough: And so, you know, another really powerful experience I had with a client, she had approached me and she was struggling because her toddler was just having meltdowns, like toddlers often do.
• 21:10
  DanielleMcGeough: She very vulnerably admitted to me that when her her kiddo was having meltdowns, it was making her angry.
• 21:18
  DanielleMcGeough: Just like I was moving into mom rage mode and I don't like it.
• 21:24
  DanielleMcGeough: And I said, Well, well, how do you want to show up?
• 21:27
  DanielleMcGeough: How would you like to be for your kiddos?
• 21:29
  DanielleMcGeough: And she said to me, I want to be safe place Sarah.
• 21:34
  DanielleMcGeough: I want to be a safe place for them.
• 21:36
  DanielleMcGeough: I want them to feel like when they're struggling that I'm safe for them, and right now I'm angry.
• 21:43
  DanielleMcGeough: And so we talked about how do we create a really quick ritual that you can do when you notice that you're moving into mom rage mode.
• 21:54
  DanielleMcGeough: How do you catch yourself, take a deep breath, find that new state for yourself, and then invite your son into that state with you?
• 22:04
  DanielleMcGeough: And you know, it took a little practice, yeah to, you know, it took some practice, but it was really transformative to go to even just name this is how I want to be in those moments that my kids are having meltdowns.
• 22:21
  DanielleMcGeough: For her to be able to say that out loud and also to admit the state that she wasn't was wildly empowering.
• 22:29
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:30
  MichelleGauthier: And I think it's funny too because when you don't want to be in a certain state, it almost feels like, oh, everyone else can handle this.
• 22:38
  MichelleGauthier: But I'm the one who's getting, you know, mom rage.
• 22:41
  MichelleGauthier: And I think anyone uh here who's a parent knows that we all feel like that sometimes.
• 22:47
  MichelleGauthier: And if you real take the time to realize that and make a new plan, I love that idea.
• 22:52
  MichelleGauthier: Just a small shift in energy and really who you want to be in that moment.
• 22:58
  DanielleMcGeough: Yeah, I think that maybe who do I want to be and how do I want to move through these moments is so wildly important.
• 23:06
  DanielleMcGeough: It actually made me think back in May, I had a student give a presentation that you know stopped me in my tracks.
• 23:14
  DanielleMcGeough: I learned so, so much from my students.
• 23:16
  DanielleMcGeough: It's such a gift to teach.
• 23:18
  DanielleMcGeough: And she said, you know, demoralization and burnout aren't the same thing.
• 23:23
  DanielleMcGeough: And I was like, Well, what?
• 23:26
  DanielleMcGeough: And what she explained is that, you know, burnout is when you feel exhausted, overwhelmed, like I can't keep going at this pace anymore.
• 23:34
  DanielleMcGeough: But demoralization is when you're like, I know how I want to be, but I feel like something's blocking me.
• 23:42
  DanielleMcGeough: Like maybe it's the systems or the structures, or you know, there's something that's blocking me.
• 23:47
  DanielleMcGeough: And it's like, I don't know if I can keep doing this anymore.
• 23:51
  DanielleMcGeough: And that was a really powerful saying because I think that naming our state is so important and getting really clear about the way in which we are stuck is wildly valuable because whether you are just exhausted or whether you're demoralized, by the way, I think that when I told you the story about me earning tenure, at that point, I think I was both burnout and demoralized.
• 24:20
  DanielleMcGeough: Good combo.
• 24:21
  DanielleMcGeough: Yay, it was a blast.
• 24:24
  DanielleMcGeough: And you know, I think that being able to name something then helps us understand oh, well, how we're gonna solve this, how we're gonna move forward from this is a little bit different based off the way that we're able to name it.
• 24:38
  DanielleMcGeough: So if you can have the courage to even name the state that you're in and then have, I don't know, the gumption to own this desired state that you desperately desire to move to, it's it that alone is pretty powerful.
• 24:56
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, yes.
• 24:56
  MichelleGauthier: How can people know what state they're in?
• 25:00
  MichelleGauthier: Like, do am I burned out or am I demoralized or what is going on with them?
• 25:05
  MichelleGauthier: How can they know?
• 25:06
  DanielleMcGeough: So, a really quickly is after my student gave that presentation and I started thinking about this, I went to all of my transcripts from coaching clients that I'd worked with for several years.
• 25:20
  DanielleMcGeough: And I was like, okay, I'm gonna code my data because I'm a nerdy professor in the I was just gonna say hashtag PhD.
• 25:27
  DanielleMcGeough: So I coded my data, and what I discovered is that there were kind of different, six different stuck states of self-leadership that I was seeing with my clients.
• 25:37
  DanielleMcGeough: And I developed a quiz, an assessment that helps you really quickly find your stuck state, name it, and then I offer you a ritual based off of your personal stuck state.
• 25:48
  DanielleMcGeough: So, because sometimes we are a combination of stucks, and so it accounts for that as well.
• 25:54
  DanielleMcGeough: But you know, another way is when you have planning practices and you start seeing it as this is me collecting data on myself.
• 26:03
  DanielleMcGeough: How am I spending my time?
• 26:04
  DanielleMcGeough: If an alien came down and looked at my calendar, what would they think my values were?
• 26:10
  DanielleMcGeough: Right.
• 26:11
  DanielleMcGeough: You can also just use what you're already doing, like grab, grab your planner, look at your, you know, Google calendar, and what are the patterns that are emerging there?
• 26:23
  DanielleMcGeough: And how can you use that as a way to also learn about yourself and start articulating those stuck states for yourself?
• 26:32
  MichelleGauthier: Yeah.
• 26:33
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, I love it.
• 26:34
  MichelleGauthier: And is that is your quiz free?
• 26:36
  MichelleGauthier: Can people find that somewhere?
• 26:38
  DanielleMcGeough: Absolutely.
• 26:39
  DanielleMcGeough: It is free, and it is at plangoalplan.com backslash stuck.
• 26:45
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, okay, perfect.
• 26:47
  MichelleGauthier: And then your podcast is also plan goal plan.
• 26:50
  MichelleGauthier: You got it.
• 26:51
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, okay.
• 26:53
  MichelleGauthier: Is there anything?
• 26:54
  MichelleGauthier: I'm gonna go into the signature questions, but is there anything that I haven't asked you that you want to have a chance to say?
• 27:00
  DanielleMcGeough: I would just say that planning is such a beautiful opportunity for you to learn about yourself.
• 27:08
  DanielleMcGeough: And the more that you learn about yourself, the more that you are able to expand your capacity to give and serve others.
• 27:16
  DanielleMcGeough: I think that the self and the social are intimately and intricately connected.
• 27:20
  DanielleMcGeough: So you feel like it seems selfish to have these rituals.
• 27:25
  DanielleMcGeough: I would say to recognize the way that your self is connected to those around you.
• 27:34
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, great.
• 27:35
  MichelleGauthier: I love that.
• 27:35
  MichelleGauthier: It's such a breath of fresh air thinking about planning.
• 27:39
  MichelleGauthier: I love it.
• 27:40
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, now I want to ask you the two questions that I ask everyone who comes on the podcast.
• 27:44
  MichelleGauthier: The first is what is something that you personally do when you're overwhelmed to make yourself feel better?
• 27:50
  DanielleMcGeough: I get out my stickers and I put stickers on things.
• 27:55
  DanielleMcGeough: So sometimes this is, you know, part of my planning ritual.
• 27:59
  DanielleMcGeough: Other times it I also like to make vision boards, but I have no artistic skills.
• 28:05
  DanielleMcGeough: And so I like to collect really funky stickers and I like to create different collages with stickers as a way for me to start making sense of what's going on.
• 28:19
  MichelleGauthier: That's fun too.
• 28:20
  MichelleGauthier: It just brings a little fun into the overwhelm if you can get yourself out by that.
• 28:26
  MichelleGauthier: I love it.
• 28:27
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, when I really make, you know, I can plan my week in 15 minutes, or I could, I would rather plan it in like an hour.
• 28:35
  MichelleGauthier: And when I do the hour version, I love it.
• 28:38
  MichelleGauthier: I get out all the highlighters, I have colored pencils, I have, I can spend so much time doing it, and it's absolutely not necessary, but it's so much more enjoyable when I do that.
• 28:51
  MichelleGauthier: And I have a lot of stickers too.
• 28:52
  MichelleGauthier: I love stickers.
• 28:54
  DanielleMcGeough: Those stickers okay.
• 28:55
  MichelleGauthier: The the other question is what is something that you do to save time or do less?
• 29:01
  DanielleMcGeough: I regularly ask myself what it is that I can let go of to make space for the things that really matter.
• 29:09
  DanielleMcGeough: Learning to practice prioritization over and over again makes creating space easier.
• 29:18
  DanielleMcGeough: Because when you really truly have a grasp on what matters and what doesn't, it does let you say no more easily.
• 29:30
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, absolutely.
• 29:31
  MichelleGauthier: And for anybody who's listening in has a thought like, but everything is a high priority and everything feels like it's on the same level.
• 29:39
  MichelleGauthier: Take that as like a gentle indicator to yourself that it's almost impossible to spend time on the things that you really care about when everything is of the same value.
• 29:50
  MichelleGauthier: It's prioritizing, is like step one.
• 29:52
  MichelleGauthier: What are the three things that I really need to do versus these 800 things on my to do list?
• 29:57
  MichelleGauthier: Absolutely.
• 29:58
  MichelleGauthier: Not my to do list.
• 29:59
  MichelleGauthier: Is short.
• 30:02
  DanielleMcGeough: Good.
• 30:02
  DanielleMcGeough: Yes.
• 30:03
  DanielleMcGeough: So hard.
• 30:04
  DanielleMcGeough: I you know, the world's so noisy right now.
• 30:06
  DanielleMcGeough: And yeah, so trying to simplify and get really clear on what matters among all of the noise, it really is hard, but it is a skill and you can learn it over time.
• 30:21
  MichelleGauthier: Exactly.
• 30:21
  MichelleGauthier: I almost think that it can turn into a habit that you're just unconsciously as things come in, evaluating, prioritizing them, you know, then having space or not having space, but being able to do that on the fly definitely takes practice, but also is possible.
• 30:38
  MichelleGauthier: I love that.
• 30:39
  DanielleMcGeough: And that's a great habit to have.
• 30:41
  MichelleGauthier: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 30:43
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, it was so great to meet you.
• 30:45
  MichelleGauthier: I had so much fun.
• 30:46
  MichelleGauthier: This was so interesting.
• 30:47
  MichelleGauthier: And I loved your fresh take on planning time and having rituals and just allowing for things to be fun because much like you said about yourself, almost all the women who I work with, when I say what do you like to do for fun, they're like, oh, I feel like I used to like skiing when I was 20.
• 31:07
  MichelleGauthier: You know, it's it feels like it's been so long sometimes.
• 31:10
  MichelleGauthier: And I'm not talking about major like going on a you know three-week European vacation, just stickers, you know, little stuff that you can do to bring fun back into your life.
• 31:20
  MichelleGauthier: So I love that.
• 31:21
  MichelleGauthier: Okay, thank you so much for being on.
• 31:24
  MichelleGauthier: And we will include the link to that quiz and your website and your podcast.
• 31:30
  MichelleGauthier: We'll include all of that in the show notes.
• 31:32
  MichelleGauthier: So if people want to follow you, if any of listeners want to follow up and take that quiz, I know I'll be taking it.
• 31:38
  MichelleGauthier: Just go to the website that's listed in the show notes.
• 31:42
  DanielleMcGeough: Thank you so much for having me.
• 31:44
  DanielleMcGeough: It was a joy.
• 31:45
  MichelleGauthier: Thank you.
• 31:51
  MichelleGauthier: Thank you for listening to the Overwhelmed Working Woman podcast.
• 31:54
  MichelleGauthier: If you want to learn more about my work, head over to my website at michellegauthier.com.
• 32:00
  MichelleGauthier: See you next week.