Latest / Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano / Sex, Drugs, and Killer Kink with Doug Fifer
Transcript
- Lyndsay Soprano (00:01.358) So one of the things that I love about my life is that I've had the opportunity to travel both internationally and domestically and internationally just amazing how much it opens your eyes when you step off the ground of the United States of America. But domestic travel here in the U.S. has taught me so much about this country and the dichotomy of it all. We are all so incredibly different from county to county and certainly from state to state. And I've driven personally with my dogs and road tripping from every state of the union outside of Hawaii and Alaska. And of all states, I've only not been to Alaska before. And I can tell you that when you're driving by yourself and you're a cute little blonde and you've got little dogs and you're in the dark in some crazy scary gas station in the middle of nowhere, you immediately are like, this is where I'm going to die. Like this is exactly what's happening in these dark and twisty places. And you know that feeling of your hair like standing up on your arms and the back of your neck or that someone's like lurking behind the corner. It's scary when you're going to the bathroom in the middle of the night in these dark, twisty places in our country. So it's dark, it's cold. And for our episode today, it's Alaska. So today we're gonna talk about deviant and mortifying sexual crimes. real life cases that will shock you to the core, I shit you not, the depths people will go to and through to fulfill their addiction or desires, the role of humor, which you guys know I love to do, and I'm super depraved, and how you can keep sane as a detective, and much more. So saddle up, I've got some cringe-worthy dark humor for you guys today coming your way. And so without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my guest today, Doug Pfeiffer. Hello, darling. Doug Fifer (01:47.022) Bye, Lindsay. Lyndsay Soprano (01:47.88) Hi, it's good to have you here. Real quick, Doug is a retired Alaskan police officer and highly decorated investigator with a 25 year career specializing in homicide investigations, crime scene analysis, deviant sexual crimes and hostage negotiations. He's worked cases involving serial killers and crimes that push the limits of human comprehension. He is the author of 50 Shades of True Crime, which is absolutely a must read. my gosh, guys, get ready. A raw source-driven look at the darkest corners of criminal behavior. And it's told with brutal honesty and, as mentioned, dark humor. So I'm rolling out the red carpet for you, And I'd like to start with what brought you into homicide detective work in Alaska. And then let's take it from there. Doug Fifer (02:36.482) Yeah, well, first off, you mentioned Alaska and you hadn't been there yet. So I'm a little bit biased, but I've traveled all over the world and the States. It is the most beautiful place on earth. So get up there and check it out probably May through August. So it's warmer. It's unseasonably cold right now. I have a brother that lives in Fairbanks. It's been averaging 60 below. That's your core temperature. So that that's tough, but event go in the summer. Enjoy it. You got to see the state. It's cool. So yeah, you would love it. Absolutely. Hawaii is good too. Lyndsay Soprano (02:48.728) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (02:55.588) my gosh. Lyndsay Soprano (03:03.246) Maybe see it before you read the book. Doug Fifer (03:07.598) That is true. Yeah, that's true. So my career started off like every other police officer, you go through the Academy, you know, you get your uniform, you have to go out on patrol and you have to kind of earn your, your rank, go through the motions. I loved patrol because everything changes. You never know what you're, you're going to, it's kind of like the forest gum quote, the box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. It's very true. And then at the Anchorage police department, what was cool is you can go on specialty teams. So early on in my career, there was a crime scene response team. Lyndsay Soprano (03:25.624) Yeah. Yeah. Doug Fifer (03:36.578) That's a unit, probably five to seven members that respond to all suspicious deaths, homicides, things like that, that have to be investigated. Think of CSI on your TV where they go in that team and forensically, they grab the hairs, the blood, any fibers, things like that. That's what I did. So I did that unit for about five years, but I always joked, all I did was see dead people. So while it sounds fun, after a while you're like, my God, let me try something else. Lyndsay Soprano (03:58.498) Hahaha Doug Fifer (04:03.649) So at APD, could switch around a lot. hostage negotiations. I did a lot of specialty units, which was wonderful for your career because you could change it up. But I did that for a long time. It was very rewarding, but very taxing like mentally because you're just dealing with homicides all the time. So that's kind how I got started in my career. Lyndsay Soprano (04:21.816) I love it. how did you end up, how, why is it, and I know we'll talk a little bit as we get going on the episode, but I want us to think about why is it that so many criminals end up going into Alaska? Doug Fifer (04:35.371) Yeah, it's a great question. have a theory. mean, nothing's factual, but Alaska is really independent as a state. We value our independence. We're kind of free birds. So I think a lot of the criminals down south think, well, this is a place I can get away with some crime. We have a tremendous amount of territory. It's the largest state by far in our union. So I think it's unpopulated in certain areas where you can dispose of bodies. So for a killer, that's important. They want to come up there. They think they can get away with it. Lyndsay Soprano (04:39.352) Sore. Doug Fifer (05:03.841) Perhaps they think we don't have sophisticated police departments, which is incorrect. And so they come up, commit these crimes. Thank God we catch most of them. But I think that's part of it is why they come up. Lyndsay Soprano (05:14.798) Well, yeah, dark, cold, you're like, who's gonna come out looking for me when it's negative 60 degrees? My God, that sounds absolutely terrible. how did you, I wanna get into your book a little bit. Again, it's called 50 Shades of True Crime and it is a page turner. mean, and there are times where I am asking myself why I just am keeping to turn the pages because I'm like, I shouldn't want to read more, but you do because it really puts, into the limelight, the sick and twisted shit that you've had to see and go through and that's going on right next door to us, which is pretty creepy. So when you decided to sit down and write a book about this, what were your thoughts about how you wanted this book to go? Doug Fifer (06:02.253) I think it started off just by telling crime stories in my community with family, friends at events. Typically for cops, people will come up to you and ask, what's the strangest case you've ever had? And then I would naturally go to maybe a serial killer, a robbery, some homicide that I thought was unique. They didn't want to hear anything about that. They wanted to know about sexual deviancy. So they'd be like, no, something really sick and twisted. So then I would tell them one of these stories, cases about their neighbor or a Lyndsay Soprano (06:11.765) Right, right, of course. Lyndsay Soprano (06:25.24) Yeah. Doug Fifer (06:29.203) oil executive in Anchorage that we caught or something like that. And they were blown away, fascinated instead of not wanting to hear more, they would double down and ask me more and more questions. This is men and women, particularly women would really dig deep into these details. And then the light bulb kind of came on for me that post retirement, I should write a book on sexual deviancy because there are no true crime books like it. There's not one out there like mine. Lyndsay Soprano (06:52.962) I certainly wasn't able to find anything because I was looking for direct competitors actually because it interested me so much more. My husband read it right after me as well. He's like, my God. Doug Fifer (07:02.475) Yeah, so that's why I wrote it because it's I can write other true crime on robbers and serial killers and it would be good, but this was so unique to come out as a crime writer. Write this book, give it to the public, something they've never read before. Again, it's extreme. But this is these are things that happen not only in Alaska, but everyday USA across the world. Public doesn't see it a lot, which is probably good. But if you want to know the inside scoop on deviancy, this is the book for you. Lyndsay Soprano (07:06.85) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (07:15.148) It is. Lyndsay Soprano (07:28.032) It is. Now, I have a question for you, and I know that you get this all the time, but in relation to your book itself, I mean, we could go through every single page of the different types of things that have been, that you talked about in your, from the Mexican mafia and the woman's tattoo on her back, on his back. I absolutely died reading that story. All the bestiality and the animal rapists, the coroners versus medical examiners. I mean, you learn a lot about the justice system. Doug Fifer (07:47.437) That's a telephone. Lyndsay Soprano (07:57.206) and what happens when these crimes occur as well as the crimes themselves. Do you have one or two of them that were just like, absolutely can't even believe that I just walked into this? Doug Fifer (08:11.095) Well, I think you mentioned the tattoo. I don't want say it's one of my favorites. It's one of the strangest I've ever worked. Lyndsay Soprano (08:13.344) Yeah. Yes. Would you mind shooting a little bit about what that is because it was pretty unbelievable. Yeah. Doug Fifer (08:20.971) Yeah, absolutely. For your listeners, when I was a rookie cop, we'd often have drug dealers that peddled their dope on street corners and you want to arrest them and take them off the streets. Heroin back in the day was big. It still is today. I think heroin is the drug of choice for many. It never goes away despite fentanyl and cocaine. It's just a massive one in law enforcement. So I identified a heroin dealer on the street corner, you know, selling dope and I snuck up on him on foot, ran up and tackled him when they made a drug deal. I thought I was going to solve the world's problem with drugs. I was naive at the time and didn't realize how prolific it was. But at the time I arrested them, but you had to have the drugs in hand to charge. can't take drugs and I can charge you. have to physically have the drugs. But what they would do, they'd wrap the heroin in aluminum packets and swallow them when the cops came. And that way we didn't have any dope. We couldn't charge them. But in the fight, I had to pepper spray this guy because he was actively fighting me. Lyndsay Soprano (08:54.178) Yeah Doug Fifer (09:18.485) And then what that caused him to do is to cough, choke, and eventually throw up. And he threw up these heroin packets that were in aluminum. So I'm grabbing this stuff up and vomit and pepper spray, but I'm really happy as a cop because I've got the dope, which sounds weird. So I arrest them. It's all good. But on our forms, you have to list tattoos and police and FBI and feds and everybody use these to identify individuals. Cause tattoos can be very unique. People lie to us about their identification all the time. So we document these in reports and databases. Lyndsay Soprano (09:29.997) Right. Doug Fifer (09:47.032) So when we find you, can identify you from a tattoo. So the question was, do you have any tattoos? He says, yes. So I said, what is it? He said, it's a female on my back. So I said, okay, describe it. He says, it's a prison tattoo. Well, at this time I didn't, had no idea what in the hell a prison tattoo was other than you got inked in prison, no big deal. Yeah. So I said, I said, I got to describe it. is it, he's like, it's a female. Okay. Is it your, your girlfriend? Is it somebody that's important to you? Lyndsay Soprano (10:05.26) Right, right, yeah, your knuckles. Doug Fifer (10:15.617) He's like, are you a rookie? You don't even know what a prison tat is. And so we kind of argued back and forth. Keep in mind, I'm driving to the jail. He's in back. He's arrested. I'm kind of in control here. So I said, fine. You can screw with me, but I'll find out in the jail. And he's like, you really don't know what it is? I was like, I got no clue, buddy. Long story short, we get to the jail. Correctional officers have a lot different power than police officers. I can't strip you down as a police officer. And that's rightfully so. But when you go to jail, they can strip you down, strip search and look at you. So I told this, correction officer, this guy won't tell me that tattoo on his back. He says, it's a prison tat of a female. I got to see it so I can document it. So he said, no problem. He tells the guy get on strip naked. And in five seconds, the guy strips naked because criminals know in, in jail and prisons, you don't mess around cause you're to get the whole, you're going to get punished. A little different with cops, but he just stripped naked. And on his backside was one of the most beautiful tattoos I had ever seen. Like I was mesmerized, which is probably inappropriate. to be staring at a guy's backside, but the tattoo was so detailed and it was of a woman, breast all the way down to the bottom, had everything, beautiful hair, and almost like Da Vinci had inked this on his back. So now I'm fascinated by the tattoo, nothing about the heroin. So I asked this guy, can you tell me about it? Keep in mind for your listeners, he doesn't have to. There's no requirement to tell me, but voluntarily he can. So I interviewed him about this tattoo. Lyndsay Soprano (11:27.342) Yeah, it's beautiful. Doug Fifer (11:42.402) He started using heroin when he was 15, unfortunately, in California. His parents kicked him out within six months because he had stolen everything in his parents' house to get drugs. He then turned to unsavory acts to get more heroin, which I took as male prostitution. Then he started selling the dope, which is very common, to feed his habit. He was arrested three times. Back then they had kind of the three strikes you're out thing. They sentenced him. He got some real time in San Quentin prison, which is in your state. Lyndsay Soprano (12:09.526) Yeah, which is a scary place. Yeah, Yeah. Doug Fifer (12:11.381) It's a, it's the real deal. If you go there, it's controlled by the Mexican mafia. It has its own inner workings, quite unique. So when he got in there, the Mexican mafia grabbed him up and said, you, you want some heroin? He said, of course. And it's a whole different story how you can get heroin in prison, but you absolutely can. So they got him hooked back on the heroin and then he couldn't pay for it. Of course. So they said, you have two options. We'll either beat you to death or you can be a prison prostitute. So he took option number two for survival. Lyndsay Soprano (12:23.981) Yeah. Doug Fifer (12:40.621) But before they, they in essence pimped them out as a prison prostitute, they had one of their tattoo artists put this woman on his back exquisite, like it's unbelievable how clear and nice this tattoo was. And that way there's three types of individuals in prison. There's heterosexual. They don't get engaged in any sex in prison. There's homosexual, which we all know they engage in homosexual sex and there's prison wolves. They engage in sex on the inside with males, but not on the outside. So they adapt to their surroundings. So for prison wolves, looking at this beautiful tattoo, in essence, you're making love to a beautiful woman, not a man. And they would get about 20 bucks each time that he had sex with a prison inmate. Just kind of blew my, you know, I was young, I was naive. I was a little bit green behind the ears as a cop, but it absolutely blew me away the depths that individuals will go for a drug habit. Now I arrested him and processed him through. He needed rehab more than he needed jail after this story. I felt bad for the kid. I say Katie's early twenties. Lyndsay Soprano (13:32.546) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (13:38.381) Yeah. Doug Fifer (13:40.213) I never saw him again. I don't know what happened to him. Probably nothing good in the end, obviously, but that kind of opened my eyes to the depths of depravity that humans will go. And then of course that was early in my career and it only doubled and tripled as I went along. Lyndsay Soprano (13:55.678) No kidding it did I mean the stories that you tell and that's the bottom of the tattoo is actually her vagina where a human's anus is so you can take that and keep running with it with your brain and when and it's beautiful I mean she looks like almost real I mean it really and and when you think about it like you're just in awe of this and also so disgusted and also so sad how does that how do you compartmentalize the things that you have seen. And I know that we'll talk about a couple other things that you've seen, because we've got to this fun depravity going here. But how do you do that? Because when you talk about, if we talk about a lot on this show is the body keeps the score, whether we've been through physical trauma, sexual trauma, whatever the traumas that we've been through, the things that you've seen, what coroners see, what forensics sees, how do you particularly compartmentalize that and deal with that without making it, you you completely lose your mind? Doug Fifer (14:54.732) Yeah, think it's dependent on each cop that works in this field. And I think the best cops or at least the ones that have the best lives can in essence, I hate to use the word, but shut it down when you're done. I was very good at that, meaning I could go do 12, 15 hours. And I knew I had to shut that down after work, go back to your family, you know, just enjoy life. I would always work out post shift to relieve some stress. I found that very beneficial to just kind of chill out, separate myself from the job and then go home and Lyndsay Soprano (14:56.589) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (15:04.814) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (15:17.038) Mm-hmm. Doug Fifer (15:23.68) and have family life. I think officers that can't do that and, and there are a lot, you know, get a lot of alcoholism, depression, things like that. So I almost forced myself early on my career to make sure I could separate that. It was never easy. The things that I could never separate still to today are child victims, child deaths, like those just stuck. They imprinted on my brain. Like I could never get rid of those. Not that adults aren't bad. They are, but I could separate my life from the adults that were victimized and killed. Never a good thing. Kids was one that always hung with me for whatever reason that that was kind of my my spot. I have kids, so that's probably why. But I think I was very good at shutting it down and doing a normal life and not engrossing myself in police work 24 seven, which is very easy to do. Lyndsay Soprano (16:08.334) Absolutely. so when you're, now that you've retired, obviously you've retired now and you wrote this book, you had to dive back into a lot of these stories that were like, did you forget about some of them? And then you're writing your book going, my God, I've got an even better one. Doug Fifer (16:23.95) I, the deviant sex stuff kind of, I remember all those as well. I mean, they're, and I've told them so many times throughout my career to either the other officers, to family, to friends, that they're just, you know, they're memorizing my, you know, I worked these cases, start to finish, arrested most of these suspects. So I remember them all, was quite easy to write because of that, as you're involved in it. So I'm just writing it as I was there. So the reader gets kind of the cops perspective, start to finish. And like you said earlier, Lyndsay Soprano (16:28.416) Yeah, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (16:44.46) Yeah. Doug Fifer (16:52.578) You get all the dirty, the grit, get everything in between. Lyndsay Soprano (16:55.254) You sure do. And poo as well. my god. Some of these stories, I'm just, like I said a minute ago, I'm like, I'm just pouring through this book. I literally just sat down on Saturday a couple of weeks ago and just like read through this thing and so quickly, but so fascinating at the same time. like, I feel like, kind of felt like gross, like I needed to shower after I read it. Because I wanted more and I don't know why we do. You know, it's just like the train wreck, the car wreck, you you see and everyone's, know, rubber necking to see is somebody dead and like their head chopped off hanging out of a window. It's just who we are as human beings to be drawn to stuff like that, which makes me feel kind of gross and dirty, but that's okay. Doug Fifer (17:39.021) Yeah, I think, I think that's human nature that we're drawn to it. had a funny story. had a friend who loved the book. So he'd given it out to a bunch of his friends, course, non-law enforcement or in the community. And there was a couple that they had dinner with and the couple, all they did was rant on. couldn't believe I wrote the book. It was inappropriate. I shouldn't have done it. It's too, you know, too savage, but this was a beautiful part. Then they subsequently went through every story. They literally read the book start to finish. And I laughed to myself because Lyndsay Soprano (17:41.792) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (17:47.544) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (18:06.701) Right. Doug Fifer (18:07.49) They knew they didn't stop the book. had to finish it. But I think that's kind of a compliment to the author. Even though they pretended they didn't like the book, I think they must have because they read every chapter. Lyndsay Soprano (18:17.73) Well, yeah, I mean, it's cringe worthy. mean, every page you're like, my God, I don't even know what could possibly be worse than what I just read. And then there's something that's worse than what I just read. And I like the way that you structured it too, how you were having the, how you have the reader try to solve like, what would this, what do you think out of these three things would have been what this guy was actually? Doug Fifer (18:27.926) Yeah, and by the... Lyndsay Soprano (18:41.9) you know, what they're prosecuted for or caught for. There's a lot of wrist slaps in this book that I want to talk about too. Why it is that the years that things have still been not illegal. I'm like, holy crap, West Virginia. Like we all have our like little banjo music playing when we think of West Virginia. But why is it that these states and the union have taken so long to make horrific crimes of bestiality, for example. How is it taken this long for these states to make decisions that that is against the law and you need to do time and not get a misdemeanor and just pick up trash on the side of the road? Doug Fifer (19:27.674) That's a great question. I'll answer your first question on the book structure. agree with what I did is for your listeners is the first chapter is called name that crime. And what that is, is readers can go through, you'll see a booking photo, a crime scene photo. You'll have a brief description. You can pick some state statutes, see how good you are as an investigator, and then read the story and find out what really happened. The book does, it's kind of an icebreaker. Then it does ramp up. As you know, Lindsay, you've read it. Back to bestiality in our states. Lyndsay Soprano (19:29.931) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (19:54.016) It does. Doug Fifer (19:57.079) Although West Virginia, might guess would be the last one. Hawaii, Montana, several states, Washington have only recently enacted laws that prevent bestiality. I have no concept in my mind whatsoever to push back on these state legislatures that don't enact these laws. I really can't answer that. It takes a tremendous incident that's public and then they immediately enact the law banning bestiality or some form of that. So I guess it follows regular crimes where they do that, but I don't really have a good answer and I can't imagine the citizens in that state would allow that and not demand the state change the law. Lyndsay Soprano (20:33.452) No kidding. Like I'm about ready to write some of these states about some things myself that I don't even live in because I'm just, it's amazing to me that in this day and age that we wouldn't have had these laws in place for things like this to be happening. Cause it's just mind boggling to me. Yeah. Doug Fifer (20:50.882) Yeah. Nobody likes to talk about it. bestialities, Wiley under reported. That's because nobody wants to report it. family, friends that catch loved ones. They're not calling the cops and saying, my, friend was doing this, right. Or my brother or sister. So it's under reported. It's, it's out there. It's rampant. Unfortunately, there are secret societies that, that engage in it constantly. You can read that in the book. these are documented. They're not, I'm not just making these up. These are factual. Lyndsay Soprano (20:58.766) Mm-hmm. Doug Fifer (21:19.298) things that happen in society, which will blow your mind when you read it. You'll think it's not possible. It certainly is. Lyndsay Soprano (21:25.236) It is and you have references throughout, I appreciate as well because not like willy nilly like, well, all right, sure. guess I'll check. And there are some that I want to go actually and read more about based on your references because I want to read more about what's happened since. Or if there's something that's going on that they're trying to put some jurisdiction in place or what have you. But from all of the stories and the bestiality part of it, what's the one that's part of your book that stood out the most? I know what mine is, but I want to know what yours is. Doug Fifer (21:53.785) The one story that stood out the most? I think the one that cringes me the most, it's about a carpenter. I reference him as Bob the Builder with some humor in there. But what this individual did, and this is a fetish, there's fetishes and paraphilias throughout the book. The difference between a fetish might be a little playtime between a couple, light choke, nothing wrong with that, whatever your thing is. So a paraphilia is something that Lyndsay Soprano (21:54.708) Yeah, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (22:17.782) Right, Yeah, yeah. Doug Fifer (22:24.226) furthers the fetish and harms an individual or yourself. That's the difference. Paraphilias are really serious. They get deep, dark and dirty. Fetishes we probably all have, right? So this carpenter, well-known, extraordinary builder, gorgeous houses. He has his own little fetish in his garage where he likes to take things anally bigger and bigger. And so he builds this contraption on his own, this giant box. And this pulley system and he levels himself up and down on this contraption to do exactly what I mentioned before. His wife, his kids know nothing about it. He has his own garage, but one day he doesn't, the wife wakes up and he's not in bed. his trucks outside, he didn't go to work. This never happens with them. She goes into his, his garage space and sees this giant box, but doesn't see anything wrong. finally calls him on his phone. He's not answering, but she quasi hears the phone in the box. There's a ladder on the side. the box, think a plywood built up all the way around tall. can't see it, but there's a ladder on the side. She climbs up it. And unfortunately, Bob, the builder's pulley system had broke loose and he'd come down on the sphere that he was using for anal sex and impaled him and he literally bled out. But the wife has to find this on who you and I and everybody else would think is a hundred percent normal guy works nine to five every day, makes great money is extremely good as his trade. but had this paraphilia that nobody knew about, only him. But he went to this extreme, obviously not intending to kill himself. Most of them don't. But that one, you know, in my mind, it just fascinates me how far they'll go for that. I mean, that's extreme. You you almost wonder what's in this individual's I always want to know, what are you thinking? What's in your mind? So kind of like criminals, when I interrogate them, I want to know what's in their mind. Lyndsay Soprano (23:58.67) Right, right, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (24:14.04) Sure. Doug Fifer (24:20.216) but deviant sex is no different. What are they thinking? Where do they get that paraphilia from? Like what happened in their life or why that? We're never gonna know because everybody's different, but that one just, for whatever reason, it just shocked me. Lyndsay Soprano (24:27.139) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (24:33.398) Yeah, well, mean, every story is shocking. I mean, we open up the book with a cucumber that's bigger than I just can't even believe the things that people will put up their ass. It is like unbelievable. And the animal part of it is it's I have a hard time with reading anything about animal abuse. I don't know why that is that for me, animals. Doug Fifer (24:42.068) That's true too, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (24:56.75) I'm more upset about the animal stuff than I am the human stuff because they don't have a choice in the matter, you know in that regard, but it's incredibly fascinating and your personality is so cool and calm like a cucumber. Just see what I did there. that I can see how easy it would be to talk to you and open up to you. Have you always been this even keeled or has that kind of been something that you've gone into as you've retired and, know, slown down from a career perspective even though you're ramping it back up doing book tours and stuff? Yeah. Doug Fifer (25:16.716) Yep, we got it. Doug Fifer (25:34.605) No, what you see is what you get. what I like with a, especially with, let's take a serial killer. When I'm negotiating, I want rapport. So you've got to be even kill. You've got to be, you know, direct them. You've got to boost their ego. They got to be their best friend, even though you're not. If you listen to some of my interrogation tapes, you would find it strange how complimentary I am to these. mean, these are like the devil people that they kill. But the reason is I need that confession, right? And that helps for our case and to convict you and put them away and protect society. Lyndsay Soprano (25:43.757) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (25:57.186) Yeah. Doug Fifer (26:04.792) So I've always been good at that. don't know why I'm just pretty, I don't want to say I'm mellow. I'm never too amped. I'm never too low. Now I can certainly, if a situation presents itself, amp up and take care of whatever needs to be done. but I find that just, you know, being level headed, focused always works better, rarely with a suspect when you yell or scream at them, you get more, often get less. So I learned that, just be very straightforward, you know, almost gentle, take their guard off and then you get the information you want. It's, it's always worked in my career. Lyndsay Soprano (26:35.116) Well, and you also have a very good speaking voice as well. So all of those things combined, because we see so much on TV where like interrogations are just like yelling at people and all this. like, I don't feel like that would be your style technique of getting answers out of people because I want to talk to you. I want to share all of these stories to you even no matter how grotesque they are. I feel like I can trust you. And I think that that's kudos to you for sure. Because I I certainly wouldn't be able to do it. I mean, I wouldn't be able to do any of this. So I applaud you for being able to handle all of these things that I've read about you. Doug Fifer (27:13.166) Now I appreciate it. It's, it's almost, you when you go into an interrogation room with somebody that's, that's harmed society greatly, I flip a switch and you just go into, to cop mode where we're going to gather their information. And so it's, it's not unlike you and I talking. And I tell you what, when I talked to a serial killer on, on murders or to get them out of a hostage situation, I'm going to talk about other stuff for the first 20, 30 minutes, nothing about the situation, unless it's imminent death or harm to somebody. So we're just going to shoot the shit. It seems quite odd. Lyndsay Soprano (27:39.275) Mm-hmm. Doug Fifer (27:42.243) but it really lowers their stress level. And then they start communicating. And for whatever reason, mass murder, serial killers, they love to talk about their crimes because they're ego driven. They want to feel special about their crimes. And that's where I want to get them to tell me how great you are. Tell me what you did. I want to hear it. Like I respect you for it. I really don't. And then they do like nine times out of 10, they did, which that kind of blows your mind to why, why are you talking to, to me? Like I'm to put you away forever. Lyndsay Soprano (27:52.163) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (28:09.528) Yeah, right, yeah, Yeah. Doug Fifer (28:11.392) The prosecutor is going to put you away forever. But it worked. It worked well. I never had to amp up. Did we ever play good, bad cop, bad cop? Maybe we did a little bit, but really, if you're skilled as an interrogator, you don't ever have to do that. Lyndsay Soprano (28:24.45) Well, you're wonderful at it from my perspective, that's for sure. Do you have a big case, like a large case that's nationally known that we've known, maybe even globally known, but nationally known that you've taken, I think you mentioned Israel Keys that you had worked with. Doug Fifer (28:40.812) Yeah, Israel keys was worked mainly by some of my colleagues. did work somewhere the suspect, and this was an 18 year old barista that was kidnapped in Anchorage, ultimately murdered. and then there was a manhunt. we didn't know what was going on, where she was, the actual, the suspect, a serial killer had left notes in the park for us. He was real cryptic. was quite the wild case. So I worked on some of the teams where he would use the ATM or ATM to withdraw cash. were trying to grab them up. Lyndsay Soprano (28:43.907) Mm-hmm. Doug Fifer (29:10.478) I never was able to catch him at those ATMs in Anchorage. Subsequently, later on in Texas, he had left the state. A trooper down there was able to grab him and arrest him and we extradited him back up. So other than that, I didn't have a lot of involvement. That's a massive national case. The one that I had more involvement with was another serial killer called Joshua Wade. And if it sounds like we have a lot of serial killers in Alaska, we do. Per capita, we have the most of anywhere in the United States. Again, why I can't really tell you, but Joshua Wade was a Lyndsay Soprano (29:28.515) Mm-hmm. Lyndsay Soprano (29:34.958) That's crazy. Doug Fifer (29:40.715) Just a savage killer. He killed a victim in Anchorage. We had arrested him and juries good bad or indifferent You never know what they're gonna do They actually acquitted him acquitted him of this homicide that everyone in the department and the community knew he committed so he went free Obviously, he's going to kill again It wasn't his first murder but the first one we could kind of pin him to subsequently murdered another nurse in Anchorage And then we we found out that he was involved in that had a big manhunt in Anchorage across the state. Officers were able to cordon him off in an apartment complex in Anchorage. After several days, they called out me as a negotiator. had two hostages to kind of extra-ed him out. And so I made that call in. That's a tense situation. You know, have a serial killer on the line with two victims, with a firearm, not hard pressed for him to kill others. He has nothing to lose. He's gonna go to prison for the rest of his life. So that was very intense. What you do in that situation is you're actually very honest with individuals. Meaning if I tell Joshua Wade, who's killed multiple people, you may not go to jail. You just got to come out. We'll talk to the judge. He's going to know it's bullshit. But what I, what I don't do is say you're to go to prison for life. What I would say is something that Josh, you know, you committed those crimes. You're going to have to answer for them, but that's not up to me. And then we go on from there. So I didn't lie to him. I sugar coated it a little bit. Lyndsay Soprano (31:05.806) Yeah. Doug Fifer (31:08.302) And eventually I was able to have him release one hostage and then the second, and then he came out to our SWAT team was taken into custody. Uh, he's probably good for 10 to 14 homicides. We have them for about four or five that we could prove. So those things always hold with me because gosh, you'd like to solve every one. Uh, sometimes you can't, but that's one case that, that is pretty big, uh, in my career. Lyndsay Soprano (31:22.19) Wow. Lyndsay Soprano (31:27.886) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (31:33.922) Yeah, well, I don't, how much work have you done with on the, now you've got to go tell the family member, the sister, the husband, the son, the daughter, whatever, how do you handle telling other people that their loved ones have gone through something so devastatingly traumatic? You know, their daughter being raped and killed and left for dead and then. and then coming back into the forest after them, days after their death and having sex with them. Like, how do you even have those conversations with these people? Doug Fifer (32:08.214) Yeah, that's brutal. So if there's one thing a cop doesn't want to do, it's exactly what you just said. Because I hate it sucks like 10 years off your life each time you do it like you're just mentally drained. The only good thing was is typically we hold that for a sergeant or lieutenant on shift to go tell but what they would often do is grab one of us to go with them. Nobody wants to be in this alone. So you although only a few times I had to directly tell Lyndsay Soprano (32:09.42) Yeah. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (32:29.379) Yeah. Doug Fifer (32:36.11) I was involved in many of them where it just literally drains the life out of you seeing family members suffer in that moment. So if there's one thing I wish I never had to do, it's exactly what you said. Lyndsay Soprano (32:46.144) Yeah, because I can see how that would stick with you and, you know, noodle about it. Even even to this day, like there's things that have happened that in my life that are nothing like these things that we're talking about in the book, but how I have been affected by horrible news about something and how that person is affected by and how I mean, just how it all cycles out to so many different people and how they process pain, how they process trauma, how they get through it. And I think it's admirable of you that you've had such a good a career of making sure that you do the best that you can to not bring it home with you and get it out. Because I know for me, when I talk to a lot of the people that are on the other side that have gone through all these traumas and so on, I'm in such an empath. It sits in me like for way too long. And I've had to put processes in a place actually in season three was where I finally was like, I've got to do something. to separate myself from these people because I'm good at creating relationships with people and I'm good at that with my guests as well. And then I end up really liking them and then the next thing you know, they're either at our wedding or they're getting Christmas cards. Like I end up getting so close and wrapped up in their stories and what happened to them that it was really starting to weigh on me and I had to make some decisions on how I was gonna process that just in my own body and the pain that I live in from a chronic pain perspective. So it's admirable that you're you know, able to do what you've been able to do without it totally turning your body into a complete disaster area. Yeah. Doug Fifer (34:18.444) Yeah, and I had a lot of support the co-workers, right? We get to talk, you know, we have coffee, we kind of we do the same job. So that's that's very beneficial mentally for for an officer. And then my wife, a lot of you know, this is 50 50. A lot of cops don't share stories with their spouse whatsoever. I think that's wrong. I'm not saying you're giving him the details criminal aspects, but really, I would have discussions with my wife throughout my career, things that, you know, were traumatic at the time for me. It's good to talk through it, have that support. Lyndsay Soprano (34:23.745) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (34:28.418) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (34:35.33) Yeah. Doug Fifer (34:47.298) worked out very well. I was always of the thought process, share, right? Share your day with your loved one, talk it through, then move on. Worked it for me. Lyndsay Soprano (34:51.79) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (34:57.038) Yeah, and I think that that's wise because I don't like keeping secrets from my spouse. don't like I don't want to compartmentalize every single little thing that I hear. I like to share because we get to talk about it and go, hey, that's how I think that you would process this maybe a little bit better this way, Lindsey, you know, versus, you know, going straight to the Prosecco and drinking an entire bottle right after I'm done talking to a guest, which has happened. I know, I know. Doug Fifer (35:19.756) Yeah, well, you him read the book, so you're in trouble now. Lyndsay Soprano (35:25.118) I know and he was like, my God, what did he just do to me? I'm like, hey, we are sharing in this situation right now. Yeah, yeah. So you did take away a really funny thing about cough drops that I want you to talk about really quick because when we're talking about all of the weird things that you can learn about kink and what people do in their bedrooms with or without animals or people. Doug Fifer (35:31.903) Exactly. Lyndsay Soprano (35:50.35) Dead or alive for that matter. There was this one story that you told about cough drops that I think that would be a really nice way to close out this episode. Yeah. Doug Fifer (36:00.259) Yeah, I love it. For your listeners, the book is it's intense, but it's real life, you're going to read these cases. But at the very end, it's you know, you almost need a shot of whiskey or Prosecco or something because you're like, wow, this is these are my neighbors, my co workers, my best friends, you'll get it all in this. So I wanted to have a fun chapter at the end. It's called teachable tidbits. Now these are sexual things I learned on my career on calls that aren't illegal that aren't going to kill you, you may or may not want to do it. Lyndsay Soprano (36:11.618) Yeah, yeah. Totally. Doug Fifer (36:29.048) That's up to the up to the reader, but I wanted to kind of have a fun chapter. The cough drops was quite interesting. I had to go on a call between two male lovers. had a domestic dispute. It was only yelling. So nothing physical. That's our favorite as cops because we separate them. Nobody gets arrested. Not a big deal. What had happened is one of the lovers had cheated on the other. They were highly intoxicated with alcohol, which is common. And so they were yelling and screaming. Neighbors had called. Lyndsay Soprano (36:29.121) Yeah, yeah. Doug Fifer (36:58.7) So when I knocked on the door, there's an officer and I knocked on the door, it flung open and he said, come on fucking in. And he stormed right back at his lover and started screaming at him. Well, we separated them as we do normally as cops. So there's no violence. And then I told the guy, said, listen, the best way I know you're, I know he cheated on you. It's traumatic, but the best way for tonight, so you don't get arrested or he doesn't is for you to leave, take a bag, come back tomorrow when you're sober, split up, whatever you want to do. It's up to you. Usually people tell us, it's my house, I'm not leaving. It becomes more problematic. This guy's name was Andrew, but Andrew said, nope, I'll leave. I'll get my stuff. No problem. I don't want to be around him. Perfect as a cop. This is great. So what we do is we give them a few minutes to 15 minutes or so to grab their stuff. I mean, you toothbrush, hairbrush, change of clothes, like, and I always give them more because I always felt bad. You're getting booted out of your own house. So he grabbed this big army duffel bag, went to the bathroom, grabbed some stuff, went to the bedroom, grabbed a pillow. Lyndsay Soprano (37:39.692) Right. Doug Fifer (37:56.675) some clothes, things like that, went over to his nightstand in the bedroom and cops follow close, not because we're creepers or weird. It's just that there's guns, knives, everything. We have to be very careful. We don't know these individuals. So we, we kind of just follow you around while you grab stuff just to make sure you're not. Yeah, exactly. And that way if we have to act, and I've been in situations where people have grabbed guns before. So he goes up, he pulls the drawer open and the drawer is filled with cough drops. Lyndsay Soprano (38:06.072) Sure, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (38:12.074) We're the ones that know what's in the side of our bedroom drawers. Come on guys Right, right Doug Fifer (38:26.742) packets. I mean the whole drawer, but he starts grabbing these and put them in the duffel bag. I mean just handfuls of them. I'm a sarcastic cop like, you know, I have to know I can't just watch this why he's dumping all these cough drops, all cough drops in there. So I said, dumbly of me, but you got a bad cough or something. And so he paused and he looked at me as he's stuffing these in his bag and he said, you know what these are for? And I said no. And, and so Lyndsay Soprano (38:39.502) Right, no kidding Doug Fifer (38:54.606) The next question he asked, do you like blowjobs? Well, that's an odd question for a cop in a domestic situation. I can't really answer that. So I almost froze up. I'm now he's in control of the situation. Yeah, he immediately looks at my hand. He sees my wedding ring and he says, does she like giving blowjobs? Like he's all over me. I can't even answer. Like he just, this guy was quick. was like, damn, what do I, I'm frozen. Usually cops, it's not good for cops to be frozen. So then he. Lyndsay Soprano (39:04.962) Right, he's interrogating me now. Lyndsay Soprano (39:20.59) Even in Alaska. Doug Fifer (39:22.134) So then he says, you take a Hulse cough drop or any cough drop, menthol is the best. You put one in your mouth, you perform oral sex and it's the best oral sex you've ever had in your life. I'd never heard this before in my life. Never even thought about it. Never even knew cough drops were used that way. And he kept going on and on about it. And I said, Andrew, I appreciate it, but I don't need any sexual tips from you. You to get yourself and we got to go. By this time we were very friendly. There was no yelling anymore. Lyndsay Soprano (39:33.112) Me neither! Lyndsay Soprano (39:37.102) Mm. Doug Fifer (39:49.665) And so as we left, I met the officer at the door and Andrew says to me, I hope you like it. And he walks away. He walks down to his car to leave. So the other officer says, like what? So now I got to tell them the blow job cough drop story. And so the officer says, do you think it works? And I was like, how the hell am I supposed to know if it works? Long story short, this goes viral in the police department. And I think every cop went and got cough drops for their relationships and tried it. And they would call me and say, it worked or what do you do here? And I was like, I'm not the expert on this. I may have actually tried it. mean, you got to, you know, that that's pretty good information, but that it's a funny story. And you would, I don't think I'd ever learned about that if I wasn't in police work. So teachable tidbits is all things like the cough drop, but just different cases. Lyndsay Soprano (40:35.766) Yeah, yeah, it's a good way. It's a good way to round out the book. Because you're like, holy moly, I got to take a shower after reading this thing. So it absolutely the things that you learn about human beings and what we're capable of and what you guys have to see and what you guys go through is so incredibly admirable because I cannot stomach any of it. I love watching true crime. I love my like horror films. I don't like like. Doug Fifer (40:40.27) Thank Lyndsay Soprano (41:04.472) gross, like bloody, like psychopath kind of stuff. But I like the, I like the like, what's going to happen, you know, the thriller of it all. But man, man, it's, it's definitely worth a read or two and definitely get in front of your spouse as well. man. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for being here. Is there anything that you want to leave our, leave our listeners with before we hit the dusty trail here? Doug Fifer (41:30.826) No, can. This is this is the book 50 shades of true crime. It's on Amazon Barnes and Noble's. You go to my website, dougpfeiffer.com. You can actually watch a cool book trailer. See if you're interested in the book or not and then go from there. But I think your listeners will love the read. It's quite unique and shocking at the same time. Lyndsay Soprano (41:34.017) Yep. Lyndsay Soprano (41:46.762) It is absolutely unique and shocking. Thank you for doing that because it does take a lot to kind of like, get me. Yeah, you got me, buddy. Well, you can find Doug all over the place. His website's the fastest way to get to him. Doug Pfeiffer. It's D O U G F I F E R dot com. He's on Facebook, Insta, LinkedIn and YouTube on his website on the home page. There's two trailers there. There's more about his book and about his journey and what he's all about. And Everything that you could want to know about Alaskan detectives. mean, it's unbelievable. And you also have a you also have a dog named Malbec. Why is the reason why you named your dog Malbec, by the way? Doug Fifer (42:25.964) Well, long story of the wife and I love wine. actually owned and operated a wine business in Alaska for many years. I was the only cop with a liquor license. So I had law enforcement and liquor. was always going to be employed, but we name all of our dogs after grapes. So prior to Malbec, we had Merlot in the future. We'll have some other grape. It's just one of own Ophelia's. love wine. Lyndsay Soprano (42:36.387) No kidding. Lyndsay Soprano (42:44.95) I love it. I know, because in the beginning I'm like, Nafili, I've never heard of this before. And was like me and my wife are on a feel as I was like, okay, now I already have to look up a word. Doug Fifer (42:54.755) I joke with people that's one fetish that I think is okay drinking the love of wine. It's good. Lyndsay Soprano (42:58.206) Absolutely, the love of wine. Well, thank you so much again. This has been awesome. You are exclusively invited to share this 50 shades of true crime VIP pain journey together. Let's get to the heart of how to heal with you by my side. Please follow the pain game podcast wherever you digest your podcast content. We will be there. Visit us at the pain game pain game podcast dot com and follow us on all the socials. Thanks for listening. My little VIPs catch you on the other side. Cool. That was fun. Doug Fifer (43:29.049) Sweet.