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Transforming Team Dynamics: Insights from HR Expert Christine Tom · Speak In Flow

• 0:02
  Melinda Lee: Welcome. Dear listeners, to the speak and flow podcast where we help you unleash the leadership voice of you and your team to reach maximum potential.
• 0:12
  Melinda Lee: Today we have Christine Tom, an amazing Hr business strategic partner to small and large companies. She brings a wealth of expertise over 15 years in what she does, and what I think is really powerful about what she does is she has a unique lens because she helps employees from the beginning of the stages recruitment all the way to development and into even exit. So welcome, Christine, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:42
  Christine Tom: Thanks, Monda. I'm just excited to be having a chance to talk to you.
• 0:45
  Melinda Lee: Yes, I'm so glad. So I just did a really quick overview of what you do. I know you have a passion for it, so I'd like for you to share with our audience more about
• 0:56
  Melinda Lee: what you do and why you're passionate about it.
• 0:59
  Christine Tom: Sure. So you know my work as a Hr partner actually stems from something I've experienced in my childhood. I'm a 1st generation Chinese immigrant
• 1:10
  Christine Tom: and growing up. My parents in San Francisco actually worked in Swiss shops. As you can imagine, working in Swiss shops is very difficult and challenging.
• 1:19
  Christine Tom: and at a young age I actually had to act as an advocate for my mother to click back just that was owed to her.
• 1:26
  Christine Tom: And now, since that moment I later on find my path in Hr. And realize this is where my heart is. I want to be able to create an experience where employees have opportunities to develop and grow and again build their long term work relationship in a company. So that's where I am. And
• 1:47
  Christine Tom: as you said, I work with clients.
• 1:50
  Christine Tom: you know, in different sizes. Whether it's a small organization, less than 50 employees, a startup or you know, a a global organization with 10,000 employees across the globe. I've worked in different environments. And I really enjoy that experience of consulting and learning and meeting new people. And also again, learning new technology. And you know, understanding the different cultures and what really success. So that's what the passion lies.
• 2:17
  Melinda Lee: I am so glad you're here. I don't really meet that many people that are in Hr. That actually has such a deep rooted experience that stem back to your mom and helping your mom at such a young age. And now bringing that forth into the world in the workplace. And so I thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom. All around. We're gonna focus and narrow in on communications today.
• 2:41
  Melinda Lee: And and so in your endeavors and how you work with companies. You've seen a lot of teams with poor communication skills. So tell us what that means. Like, what are the challenges that you see when regards in regards to communication.
• 2:56
  Christine Tom: I think, in communications.
• 2:58
  Christine Tom: whether it's I see the work relationships very much like a dating, you know, someone who's going out on a their 1st date. There's so many unknowns. They're not really quite sure what the you know. Interests of the other persons are what their priorities are, and the same goes for successful collaboration in work, environment managers and teams, or the employees
• 3:19
  Christine Tom: don't know what is the expectation, what does success look like for me? And then more deeply. Some of them are unclear about what their strengths are and what are their opportunities for further development. So that's where strong communication really helps to tie in all those pieces, so the employee can flourish, and again tap into their success and their talent like their strengths, and then also find those nuggets of opportunities for continued learning and growth.
• 3:45
  Melinda Lee: Right. So so you do you think that people don't know like just like you? I love how you're relating to dating cause in the beginning we don't know each other. And so do you think part of the the challenges that we don't know each other's communication styles? Or what is it.
• 4:00
  Christine Tom: Yes. So when we don't know each other, we often say the wrong things right? We might say things that might unintentionally hurt the other person. Specifically, in a works environment. What I've seen in again in all organizations, regardless of the size where there's a tech company that I work with a tech startup that I work with, or you know, a sales organization.
• 4:25
  Christine Tom: The challenge is very similar. People are. There's lots of there's common friction among teams when they are working together for the 1st time, and there tends to be miscommunication.
• 4:37
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 4:38
  Christine Tom: Right communication is really the gel, or what I like to think, as the heart that pumps the blood into the organization that really defines whether a company can be successful or not. And it starts with what we say, how we interact with one another, right? What we learn from each other. When you talk about communication.
• 4:55
  Christine Tom: it is thought it is the 1st ingredient to success. Is.
• 4:59
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 4:59
  Christine Tom: You know, using our voice, our words to build connections and trust, and that, or getting to know our teammates, understanding, you know what's important to them. What are the Daily Pain points, for example, for me as Hr. Partner.
• 5:14
  Christine Tom: when I'm learning about my customers or the leaders that I support one of the key things I do is
• 5:19
  Christine Tom: I meet with them and sit with them to understand.
• 5:22
  Christine Tom: You know who they are. What's important to the organization. What are they trying to achieve?
• 5:26
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 5:27
  Christine Tom: More important. What's more, also keeping them up at night right.
• 5:30
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 5:31
  Christine Tom: The daily work look like? What are some things that really bring them joy, things that might be really stressful and challenging, and then also ask, What can I do? How can I support them? And sometimes, being able to provide for me as a partner, provide some visibility into some of the unspoken things that I observe.
• 5:51
  Christine Tom: Communication is not just the verbal that we talk. The words we use, but it's a behavior on non spoken are not.
• 5:59
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. So what do you think are the front like, how how does that impact the team when we don't go into asking the right questions like you're saying like we. And then we end up in these con communication frustrations like, what does it impact.
• 6:14
  Christine Tom: I think I can. Maybe if I could, you know, just share story, at least that really illustrates this.
• 6:20
  Melinda Lee: Okay.
• 6:21
  Christine Tom: So recently I had a director of engineer who came to me, and he was extremely frustrated. He came to my office and said, you know what? I don't wanna work with this new Vp. Of sales who just joined the organization for the last 3 weeks, and
• 6:34
  Christine Tom: and he, you know, the director of Engineer said. The head of engineering said, I want to quit. I'm done. I don't want to work with this guy. He's just coming to my office saying all kind of things. And then so the one of the 1st thing I do is because I can tell that there's a lot of emotions. Engineering clearly seen his body language, his tone of voice, is elevated.
• 6:55
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 6:55
  Christine Tom: He's blouching as he's leaning against my office door. I can see the tension around him. So 1st thing I do is just really again
• 7:02
  Christine Tom: acknowledge that I see that you're really frustrated. Can you tell me what's going on asking questions, but also 1st listening to him. Just kind of like, be able to have that space to vent and share what's all going on his mind? Because
• 7:17
  Christine Tom: I know this director of engineering to be very passionate about his work and very dedicated to his team and to the organization. You know, they're working on a new product launch
• 7:26
  Christine Tom: first, st ever product in the marketplace. So they're just locked into place. And there's no industry standard for what they're doing. So leading a product technology building one, it's high stress. They're moving at lightning speed. So I know that his work and the work of his engineers are very. You know. They're very tasked and very stretched and very burnt out. So for him to come with this kind of you know feelings I wanted to understand.
• 7:53
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 7:54
  Christine Tom: Causing this this tension.
• 7:56
  Melinda Lee: Okay.
• 7:56
  Christine Tom: Listening, giving him that space event, asking questions like, Where's this coming? From which part of the interaction? And then in our conversation, what I learned is that there's a communication breakdown.
• 8:07
  Christine Tom: Meaning that the the Vp. Of sales, who's only joined the organization for the last 3 weeks in each encounter that he's had with this head of engineering. Each encounter he has started the conversation with. I don't like what your Tl. Team is doing. They're missing the mark with the customers.
• 8:22
  Melinda Lee: Wow!
• 8:23
  Christine Tom: This is in communication, in leadership meetings. This happens in all all hands meetings. It happens on the team slack channel with other people on the you know, Communication group. So.
• 8:35
  Melinda Lee: I would want to quit too. Oh, my goodness.
• 8:38
  Christine Tom: Okay.
• 8:40
  Christine Tom: We are very, very
• 8:43
  Christine Tom: heavy, very heavy encounter, and I can understand why this
• 8:49
  Christine Tom: head of engineering he's very frustrated. Because.
• 8:51
  Christine Tom: again, like I said. He has a very lean team that works around different time zones. They can adopt the clock. They have limited resources. And they're building an
• 9:00
  Christine Tom: a, a technology, a product that's never been done so suddenly. There's a lot of innovations, lot of mistakes. And I think that was the breakdown. What I identified the key breakdown in the communication is
• 9:12
  Christine Tom: possibly the fact that it's not, you know, failure is not acknowledged as a learning experience as a learning opportunity, particularly when you endure on a new technology, new innovation. Right?
• 9:23
  Christine Tom: You know, we need to understand and accept that mistakes are part of the course of success and being able to document those lessons learned being able to invite a dialogue
• 9:34
  Christine Tom: of Let's talk about you know what our different perceptions are. And that's actually where I, after listening to the head of the engineering, that's when I started talking to him about
• 9:46
  Christine Tom: Perhaps if I can offer some counsel, let's talk about how we can set up some meetings. I encourage him to set up some meetings, one on one meetings with
• 9:54
  Christine Tom: this Vp. And to really be able to have a dialog follow a dialogue where they talk about what's the expectation?
• 10:01
  Christine Tom: There's also communication or lack of communication about alignment, and what the expectation is from the engineering and the sales team. So that's an opportunity. And clear, you know again, this is very common in
• 10:14
  Christine Tom: whether it's new people that's join or when you work. You know, when a team member's working with a different business unit, that forming a norming period, time is a time for really for people to invest in learning about each other's styles. Work styles, communication styles ways. They prefer to deal with escalation or constructive feedback. Certainly open, you know, in an open. All hands Forum.
• 10:39
  Christine Tom: You know a team slack is not the way to communicate. You know, when you have some disagreement on different perspectives. That's really when a 1 on one dialogue would be really helpful. And that's what I hear with
• 10:51
  Christine Tom: with the head of engineering, I said.
• 10:53
  Christine Tom: Initiate these one on one meeting schedule that have a dialogue about, you know. 1st of all, get to know the new Vp because he is new. You both don't know each other 3 weeks. He hasn't had the time to be able to really sit down with the head of engineer and really understand
• 11:09
  Christine Tom: what his team goals are what the deliverables have been, and what are some of the challenges they face in accounting, and how partnering with the sales team can really help drive and execute more successfully. It is a partnership. There's 1 common goal is to accomplish and build this product
• 11:28
  Christine Tom: for the customers right and have it be successful.
• 11:32
  Christine Tom: Again, there's so many, there's so many different layers of communication that was missed. That was a missed opportunity in this scenario right? And being able to have that conversation get spend time. I've also encouraged them to spend time talking, not just about work.
• 11:47
  Christine Tom: but maybe like meeting outside of work, you know, having a lunch break just connecting each other on a personal level, getting to know each other so that you can really understand.
• 11:57
  Christine Tom: Perhaps it's a misunderstanding right? Perhaps the intention of the communication, the way it's perceived is not the way it was met right. Maybe these perceive
• 12:07
  Christine Tom: what's perceived as abrasive comments in an open form. It's really the way of maybe the sales Vp just expressing his fears about the direction the taking right? Maybe there's some questions about the specification.
• 12:22
  Christine Tom: Maybe he's trying to make sure that the engineers are not going down.
• 12:26
  Christine Tom: you know a a long path so that they can again save time and resources. So
• 12:32
  Christine Tom: it's it's a, you know, connecting with another person to really spend time and understanding. What is the communication gap.
• 12:38
  Melinda Lee: Thanks.
• 12:39
  Christine Tom: Indian Point.
• 12:40
  Melinda Lee: Right? I mean, that's such a wonderful example. And of showcasing all the different layers of how communication can impact a team. Beginning with, like the poor communication that happened at the onset.
• 12:54
  Melinda Lee: When the sales director came to the engineer, director of engineer well in in the engineering department, not knowing. So he's saying that the the the product is not what the the clients want, and and just really giving some feedback in a way that people. I think when you're giving poor feedback and feedback that is telling someone that is not aligned, or there's gaps like we have to be very careful.
• 13:18
  Melinda Lee: because the impact was then, he ended, wanting to leave the company. Sounds like he was a really good employee, dedicated his time, his team. And and now, suddenly, because of that feedback he wants to quit like that is serious, right? He's so angry, so frustrated, that all of the work that he did.
• 13:36
  Melinda Lee: I'll almost let him to quit. Had he not talked to you, had he had you been that voice, you're there to sue him.
• 13:42
  Melinda Lee: to listen, to allow him to have been out as frustrations. And you did. It sounds like you did a great job, because then he was able to at least calm, get get to the place where he was able to. Have want to have further discussion sometimes. People don't even want to have further discussion with the person that was
• 14:01
  Melinda Lee: yelling or being dismissive to
• 14:04
  Melinda Lee: me, right or my see, you know. So the employee and then engineer, and so it's great that you're able to be there for him.
• 14:13
  Melinda Lee: and then and then provide some wonderful feedback on what is good communication like you you mentioned. I know that the norming forming and the forming and then norming. So if for those of you that don't know, there's a really wonderful fabulous model.
• 14:27
  Melinda Lee: Tucker's 4 stages of team development.
• 14:31
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, so it's a forming in the beginning.
• 14:35
  Melinda Lee: storming and then norming and then performing. So when you're in a team, and what this is helpful for is to know that it's actually quite normal in the beginning, when you're forming, they're storming.
• 14:47
  Melinda Lee: And so what Christine is saying is that in the storming. It's normal because everybody's trying to figure it out. You know, this new person is coming. He's trying to figure it out. And at the time that is the mostly most when most teams break, make, or break like this at the most, the time when people, because they don't understand each other because there's a lot of conflict. And people people are trying to say things. There's a lot of emotion, and people are trying to be heard, and some people don't know where they fit in. It's so confusing.
• 15:13
  Melinda Lee: That's when people that's when teams break. And so that's what you're saying. Like, have a lot of resources tools. Support in that area.
• 15:24
  Melinda Lee: and that's what you it sounds like you did for them.
• 15:27
  Christine Tom: Yeah, absolutely spot on Melinda. I mean, that is very common, the storming.
• 15:32
  Christine Tom: you know, the fact that, like you said the head of engineering to for him to have this
• 15:36
  Christine Tom: open communication. The fact that he's stepping to my office and talking about it that is actually reflection of his dedication. Because, just, you know, some other employees, they would just exit without even saying anything. Right? So definitely, when we have talent, who are genuinely, genuinely passionate about what they do, and very vested in the success of the organization. Those are the people that I want to keep.
• 15:59
  Melinda Lee: 8.
• 15:59
  Christine Tom: And and just by again.
• 16:02
  Christine Tom: you know, like you talked about just by listening right? Reflecting on what they what they shared, just acknowledging that. Yes, is hard, and giving them the space to, you know, kind of think through what the next steps are, and that's what I told.
• 16:16
  Melinda Lee: I like, yeah, I like to highlight the questions that you asked, because it wasn't just about it is a partly them venting. But you did ask very specific questions. What happened?
• 16:27
  Melinda Lee: Tell me more right? These are very powerful questions for us, as coaches, consultants, managers, when you're talking to employee, and you hear that they're frustrated. They're concerned, like really asking the right questions to get more into their world. Tell me more. When did this happen? You know, how did it happen? Just keep asking those type of curious questions?
• 16:50
  Melinda Lee: How did it happen? What are you feeling? What is the impact to you?
• 16:54
  Melinda Lee: What does it impact your team?
• 16:56
  Melinda Lee: Those those are wonderful questions that that allowed him to. Then you said, Think through things, because then when they're emotional, they're not thinking through.
• 17:06
  Christine Tom: Yes, and then, you know, the other question I asked is also, what would you have liked to? You know.
• 17:10
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 17:11
  Christine Tom: It to look like right.
• 17:13
  Melinda Lee: Right, right? Right. What would you like us to look like? What would you want? Yes, I love that. Then they're starting to think through the solutions for themselves.
• 17:20
  Melinda Lee: What would you like? Yeah, it's good.
• 17:22
  Christine Tom: And just to wrap up, you know, just to give you what what happened. He did have head of engineering and the Vp. After some months of going through this, you know, regularly initiating one on one meetings. They actually have more alignment. And you know, when they do what they have also. What I also advise is that
• 17:37
  Christine Tom: not just among the management and leadership, but also I encourage this practice, for all teams is to have what what I call most of engagement
• 17:46
  Christine Tom: clearly define that. How do you want to communicate whether you know you just on boarded a new team into your sales team or your engineering team.
• 17:55
  Christine Tom: Ask them, what is their communication preference, you know? Do they normally respond quickly to emails? Or do they prefer like, if you have something
• 18:03
  Christine Tom: urgent issue or a quick, you know, quick check in about maybe provide some feedback on some things they're working on. Do they prefer phone call right? And actually, normally, I suggest
• 18:14
  Christine Tom: a zoom call a team's call.
• 18:17
  Christine Tom: have that dialogue, because when communication is very different than
• 18:22
  Christine Tom: you know, a face to face or phone call, because again, just as a you and I are talking on the zoom call, I can see, you know, if if your expression I can see how you're listening to me. All those non verbal queues really give us some insight as to what the other person's intending to communicate right all these that sometimes is missed when it's just, you know, when on a team slack.
• 18:45
  Christine Tom: I also encourage them to clearly define what is the rules of engagement.
• 18:50
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 18:50
  Christine Tom: You know, communication preference for all your team members. Right?
• 18:54
  Christine Tom: So that's really helpful to again to get that understanding ahead of time. Beginning of that dating.
• 19:00
  Melinda Lee: Yes, yes, yes, it is true, because then otherwise they're unsaid. And then people have expectations that and some people have the expectation. Other people don't, and then other. You know, they stir up some underlying emotions that people don't know about, and stories, and so just have it all clearly defined. There's another one that I like. The rules of engagement is, you know, having a set time for everybody. We're going to have one or 2 min for each person to talk
• 19:28
  Melinda Lee: or and if there's something that's really important, you know, make sure we'll put it up. The the what is it? To talk about later. Right? We'll table it for later, you know. Let's just like, be specific like, have your goals set on one meeting in one meeting, and then allocate
• 19:43
  Melinda Lee: that each person talks for 2 min or 3, whatever time, but just like those things are really good. And and if there, if there is an elevation of emotion. There's a key word. There's a queue that you can say that is appropriate. Some people have said, I'm I'd like to use a restroom
• 19:59
  Melinda Lee: like it's okay. If if the if there's tension that starts rising cause, as you and I know sometimes when there's tension rising, if it's elevated too much. There's creativity is out the door, anyways. And so it's just saying, Hey, I'm gonna use the restroom
• 20:13
  Melinda Lee: and then just have a break
• 20:14
  Melinda Lee: alright. Take a break
• 20:16
  Melinda Lee: and allow that to be okay. So that you know, that's just if if the team decides that, that's what they want.
• 20:23
  Christine Tom: Yes, no. I love your suggestion. I mean, that is certainly things that you know. I've I've suggested to teams before. In addition to that. Another option is that
• 20:33
  Christine Tom: you know, I know that in working with some teams there are people that are really quiet.
• 20:39
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 20:40
  Christine Tom: More comfortable. Just kind of doing their work on the back end, but not really
• 20:46
  Christine Tom: voicing their thoughts in a group meeting. So what I do when I'm for example, when I'm leading a program and I'm working with engineers, a product manager or someone in marketing is just in marketing. Sometimes someone in finance that's on my team on my project team might be really quiet, but have a lot of data, have a lot of things to share. So what I do is I invite them, I say, oh, what are your thoughts? I know that you shared this data, these reports, these are the discussion. I kind of kind of slowly.
• 21:15
  Christine Tom: respectfully, draw them out because they have a lot of insights. That's not, you know, that's not shared in this discussion, and it's really valuable. I want to be able to give them that open space. But also part of that is also before I even start talking about work. I actually take 5 min at the beginning of all my meetings with the new teams I work with just to have like icebreaker.
• 21:38
  Christine Tom: And and that's what I use. Like what you just described like that 2 min, you know, Round Table. Let's just check in with everyone. How's you going? I'll I'll choose a random topic like, Hey, what made you smile today? You know.
• 21:48
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Christine Tom: The shares. And that's just again, communications about building relationships, right?
• 21:54
  Christine Tom: Having a successful work partnership
• 21:56
  Christine Tom: that's essential to everything we do. So for me, it's always looking for using communication to build connections. And then we can actually start focusing and building success as teams.
• 22:06
  Melinda Lee: Hmm! I love that. So you you have such wonderful strategies for leaders I liked how you said, if I'm a leader and I see people that are in the background and not contributing, you'll gently guide them to encourage them, cause you know that they have a lot of insight. Most of them are observing but they're picking up on things that we may miss. So to have the yeah, to have the knowledge and awareness to draw them out.
• 22:32
  Melinda Lee: so they have the the voice and opportunity to speak, and then also, like you mentioned, also using communication as a vehicle not just to voice our opinion, but to build connection.
• 22:45
  Melinda Lee: That's the 1st step. The 1st key ingredient to any team is that connection meaningful relationships which then therefore equals success.
• 22:56
  Melinda Lee: I will thank you so much. And can I ask Christine before we take out? I mean, we have so much value here, and it's been so fun. Can I ask you like I asked all my guests. What is your one leadership, golden takeaway that you'd like the audience to remember.
• 23:12
  Christine Tom: Yes, what I would say might the one golden takeaway at least take away is, spend time.
• 23:18
  Christine Tom: be patient, and invest time in learning about the other individual.
• 23:23
  Christine Tom: what they? What's important to them? What are their strengths.
• 23:27
  Christine Tom: what are their their pain points, and also
• 23:31
  Christine Tom: be be a model of practicing transparent communication and sharing about your mistakes and your learning opportunities. Again, mistakes are a path to success. So I encourage this at all levels of the organization.
• 23:47
  Christine Tom: like starting with the C-suites to every individual, because, again.
• 23:53
  Christine Tom: all teams need to understand and acknowledge that mistakes are all part of the learning process by we constantly. Anyway, we are in an environment where technology is moving at rapid speed. There's so many changes
• 24:08
  Christine Tom: and
• 24:09
  Christine Tom: really take time to also celebrate and acknowledge the team's milestones. Small, big, you know. Let's just take the time to really celebrate.
• 24:19
  Christine Tom: you know, so that we really care about the individuals, efforts and contributions right? And again, biggest thing is share that we're all human
• 24:28
  Christine Tom: mistakes of common path to success.
• 24:31
  Melinda Lee: Oh, my goodness, Christine, can I be on your team? I'm gonna go with you all the way. Whatever you're doing.
• 24:38
  Christine Tom: You can join us right here.
• 24:43
  Melinda Lee: I love it well, and if you are a leader, of a of a company, and an own, or an owner, and you would love Christine support. We're gonna put your, how do we contact? How do they contact you.
• 24:55
  Christine Tom: Sure they can find me on Linkedin.
• 24:58
  Christine Tom: Great. Yes.
• 25:00
  Melinda Lee: Reach out to Linkedin. She's a wealth of knowledge helping you, your team, your company from the beginning, the employee journey from the beginning all the way to the end. And so that's a really really powerful set of skills that you have
• 25:16
  Melinda Lee: and lens to support our owners out there and companies. So thank you, Christine, for sharing. I really appreciate your time.
• 25:23
  Melinda Lee: and thank you listeners for being here until I see you next time. Be well.
• 25:29
  Melinda Lee: take care.
• 25:30
  Christine Tom: Thanks, Melinda.
• 25:31
  Melinda Lee: Thank you.