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Nick Coffey’s Fight to Hold Oklahoma Accountable · The Dry Line Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to The Dry Line Podcast.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host,
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Ryan Fightmaster,
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Editor-in-Chief of The Dry Line and your weekly leader on this exploration
0:16
SPEAKER_00: through Oklahoma's strangely endearing culture and its sacred sports,
0:21
SPEAKER_00: mercurial weather, nefarious politics, and damn fine people.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Before we get into my interview today with our guest,
0:30
SPEAKER_00: the man running for Oklahoma's Attorney General, Nick Coffey.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: That is the same name you've seen on those yellow and black signs across thousands
0:39
SPEAKER_00: of yards in Oklahoma City.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: And yes,
0:41
SPEAKER_00: it was a fascinating conversation because it's always cool talking to someone
0:45
SPEAKER_00: who not only knows a lot about what's happening,
0:47
SPEAKER_00: the Inola smelter,
0:50
SPEAKER_00: data centers,
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma's cannabis wild,
0:52
SPEAKER_00: wild west,
0:53
SPEAKER_00: the cartel's presence in our state,
0:55
SPEAKER_00: but also someone like Nick who can break it down and make it practically relatable.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: I learned a lot, no doubt.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: First though,
1:03
SPEAKER_00: if you're not yet subscribed to The Dry Line Podcast,
1:06
SPEAKER_00: it helps us immensely if you go ahead and subscribe.
1:09
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1:13
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1:20
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1:22
SPEAKER_00: Those reviews help us immensely.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: After I talk with Nick, I also today have a related to our conversation edition.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Of the Oklahoma News Roundup,
1:34
SPEAKER_00: where again,
1:35
SPEAKER_00: our state delivers the kind of salacious,
1:38
SPEAKER_00: concerning news that you can really only get in Oklahoma.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I've been looking forward to talking to Nick for months.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Given we have known each other since our time at OU,
1:50
SPEAKER_00: but really haven't talked at all since college,
1:52
SPEAKER_00: I was curious what his campaign was gonna be about when I found out
1:56
SPEAKER_00: that he was running, so I went to his website.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm not kidding when I tell you His website has one of the most straightforward
2:04
SPEAKER_00: and sensical campaign messages I've ever heard,
2:07
SPEAKER_00: which essentially says, Hey, I'm a federal prosecutor.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I believe partisan politics does not belong in the Attorney General's role.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm here to uphold the state's laws and hold our government accountable.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: I rub my eyes, refresh my browser.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Nick was actually running as a Democrat,
2:28
SPEAKER_00: but essentially really was just running as who he was,
2:30
SPEAKER_00: who was an attorney and a federal prosecutor interested in upholding the law.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: And that I thought was a pretty interesting idea
2:39
SPEAKER_00: in today's hyper-partisan political environment.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to have him on the show just to be able to talk
2:45
SPEAKER_00: about what this whole experience Here's my interview
2:48
SPEAKER_00: with Attorney General Candidate Nick Coffey.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: All right, man.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Should we do it?
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us, by the way.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you making the time.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you are a busy man right now.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: Campaigning is full time.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: It is full time and it is unpredictable in a way.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: You never know what's going to pop up.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: You never know what you're going to get asked on the trail.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: But no, of course, like obviously Oklahoma City, born and raised, happy to do this.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: So whenever I saw your name, Nick,
3:44
SPEAKER_00: and you were running for Attorney General,
3:45
SPEAKER_00: my first thought was, whoa, like I know that guy.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I was about to say, yeah, you're like,
3:50
SPEAKER_00: oh, one of my OU buddies.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: This is somebody I knew.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like,
3:54
SPEAKER_00: that also means I think we're getting a little bit older,
3:56
SPEAKER_00: that you could even have a friend that's running for State Attorney General.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: So my second thought was, damn, like he must have gone MAGA.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And then I thought, okay, wait, he didn't go MAGA.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: But he didn't go full AOC.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
4:11
SPEAKER_00: wow, Nick seems like he's just trying to be a reasonable person in modern politics.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: And that is awesome.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: But that also seems very hard.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: So I was just wondering,
4:22
SPEAKER_00: what's it like trying to be a reasonable person right now in modern politics?
4:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, one, be yourself.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: Be yourself.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And so it's always going to be easier, right?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to think about...
4:37
SPEAKER_01: Pleasing certain people,
4:38
SPEAKER_01: depending on the audience you're talking to,
4:40
SPEAKER_01: if you're just yourself, this is going to be a lot easier for you.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Not just for any kind of thing.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people run to the extremes because they want soundbites.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: I guess that works for some folks.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it works for the AGs race, though.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's one of the reasons that I thought about running for office growing up.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: I had no interest in running for Congress,
5:08
SPEAKER_01: no interest really in running for a state House or Senate seat.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm an attorney, right?
5:14
SPEAKER_01: I was a federal prosecutor for many years, and that's an apolitical role.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, it was, okay,
5:21
SPEAKER_01: how can I run for attorney general and get people to understand that you can do this
5:26
SPEAKER_01: in a responsible, reasonable way that actually positively affects Oklahomans?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Because I think that regardless of which side of the aisle you're on,
5:35
SPEAKER_01: I think that Oklahomans have lost a lot of faith in their government.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: I think your story and how you got into the position you're trying
5:43
SPEAKER_00: to run is interesting because the roles that politicians get,
5:48
SPEAKER_00: especially in state office and federally too,
5:51
SPEAKER_00: doesn't always line up with their resume.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: But as a prosecutor,
5:55
SPEAKER_00: as a federal prosecutor,
5:57
SPEAKER_00: and then being the attorney general,
5:59
SPEAKER_00: that's actually like a resume link that makes sense
6:03
SPEAKER_01: to me.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
6:05
SPEAKER_00: it would seem like you're actually positioned to be able to step into a role like
6:09
SPEAKER_00: that based on what you did, which you don't always see.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: We don't see that currently sometimes in state politics.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: And look, I mean,
6:17
SPEAKER_01: it'd be like someone that has no history in the insurance industry isn't going
6:21
SPEAKER_01: to run for insurance commissioner.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: Somebody needs to have experience if they're going to be Attorney General.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it makes total sense.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: Again, I mean, look, the AG does a lot of different things.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: We can get into this.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, you need experience.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: I've tried cases regularly in federal court.
6:40
SPEAKER_01: I went after everything from violent prison gangs to police.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the perfect resume would be to prepare you for the role of AG
6:49
SPEAKER_01: because it does a lot of different things,
6:51
SPEAKER_01: but I think I've got at least one better than the other guy.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so since the last time we saw each other,
7:10
SPEAKER_00: which was probably like 2012, OU's campus, somewhere around that time.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you would have been a senior probably.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I was probably a senior at that point.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: You would have been junior at the time.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, on that note, will OU's offense get it figured out on Saturday against New Mexico?
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Why is the New Mexico defense as stout as the Michigan defense?
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: We're at home, so we'll see.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: Now, look, I mean,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: I grew up,
7:40
SPEAKER_01: I think we were talking about this off camera,
7:42
SPEAKER_01: I grew up with season tickets to go to every game.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Didn't go to Michigan,
7:48
SPEAKER_01: obviously a little busy on the campaign trail,
7:49
SPEAKER_01: but a bunch of friends and some family did.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: This has been a quick turn of events.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: I hope we can get it turned around.
7:56
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: It's tough when you lose a non-conference game that early in the year.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: You never hope so that high.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: It just flips everything on its head.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: It goes from,
8:07
SPEAKER_01: can we win two out of three against Michigan,
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Texas, and Georgia to, oh crap, we might be six and six.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: Like that?
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Seven and five, yeah.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Like that, especially when it looks like that.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but you're not, okay, so you know ball.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we digress.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's go back to the role.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm curious from when I saw you last,
8:30
SPEAKER_00: how you got to the point where you're running as Attorney General?
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Link up the story for me.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: How did all this transpire to where you got here from 14 years ago?
8:41
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: So it really started even before I met you.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: My granddad was the U.S. Attorney in Tulsa.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: So there are 93,
8:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how many there were back in 1961,
8:52
SPEAKER_01: but there are federal districts, right?
8:54
SPEAKER_01: And every federal district has a federal courthouse in the U.S. Attorney's Office.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: That's where federal crimes get prosecuted at the trial level.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: My granddad was the U.S. Attorney in Tulsa.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: So John F. Kennedy appointed my granddad.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: He was the youngest U.S. Attorney in the
9:08
SPEAKER_00: nation at the time.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I grew up idolizing.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: That's a good story that you're hearing all the time, too, I'm sure.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: He had a good first 31 years of his life.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was on Bud Wilkins' national championship teams,
9:21
SPEAKER_01: and then he was U.S. Attorney for JFK.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: So I grew up, Ryan, idolizing him.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: That's crazy.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's like, that's Forrest Gump stuff.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's pretty cool.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: And so I grew up idolizing him.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I knew I wanted to be a federal prosecutor.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: And I just made decisions that I thought would put me in a good position to do that.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, look, I didn't go out of state to law school.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: Again, all my friends and family are here in Oklahoma.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm, you know, like a lot of people, I didn't want to rack up a ton of debt.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to stay in school, get a good, affordable education.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: So, OU undergrad, OU law,
9:57
SPEAKER_01: and then I went,
9:59
SPEAKER_01: and then I was clerking for a federal judge,
10:01
SPEAKER_01: worked in private practice by the A year and a half,
10:03
SPEAKER_01: because you really can't get into a US Attorney's Office right out of law school.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: The rules recently have changed with DOJ, but like historically, you can't do that.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: And so finally,
10:15
SPEAKER_01: in beginning of 2019,
10:17
SPEAKER_01: I got the opportunity and I was there until September of 2025,
10:22
SPEAKER_01: trying cases, you know, again, drug and money laundering, organized crime cases.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, on that subject, you've extradited members of the cartel.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: You have basically, you have, I think, indicted members of like the Irish mob gang.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, the prison gang that kind of dominates our prison system.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: You know more about organized crime in Oklahoma than I would imagine 99%
10:51
SPEAKER_00: of Oklahomans because this is totally out of the awareness for most of us
10:54
SPEAKER_00: who live here.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: What would you just want like the average Oklahoman to know about organized crime?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Because this,
11:00
SPEAKER_00: whenever I saw that you've done this,
11:02
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I had no idea that this was even happening.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: So like basic points, uh, Look,
11:09
SPEAKER_01: like Sinaloa Cartel,
11:10
SPEAKER_01: the CJNG,
11:12
SPEAKER_01: these massive cartels, look,
11:13
SPEAKER_01: they're not sending people to Oklahoma that work directly for the cartel, right?
11:17
SPEAKER_01: How this typically works is they've got cells operating in Mexico that are buying
11:22
SPEAKER_01: from these groups wholesale.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: The cells have their people up in Oklahoma, right?
11:26
SPEAKER_01: Look at the massive cartels that you hear in the news at like Walmart.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: And then you've got all of the mom and pop shops, right, that are distributing drugs.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: But so there are real cartel links, though, between the groups that we go after.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: But they're not like – the presence isn't here.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: They're linked to the mom and pop shops that are here more so.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: So Sinaloa Cartel will – and this is what I'm talking about.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: They will send people to – there will be a point man in L.A.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: and Chicago and New York – There's not going to be a point man in Oklahoma City.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: There might be one in Houston.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: And so these drugs come,
12:01
SPEAKER_01: and one of the biggest buyers of these drugs are violent prison gangs like
12:07
SPEAKER_01: the Irish Mob.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: So they use contraband cell phones in prison.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: For real?
12:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, look, I mean,
12:13
SPEAKER_01: so like the one of the Irish mob,
12:15
SPEAKER_01: the leader of the Irish mob that we convicted,
12:18
SPEAKER_01: David Postel,
12:20
SPEAKER_01: we think he grew up with a head of a cartel here in Oklahoma City that later fled
12:27
SPEAKER_01: to Mexico and distributed,
12:29
SPEAKER_01: you know, flooded Oklahoma with methamphetamine for years after, right?
12:33
SPEAKER_01: They're a real cartel links, those links existed.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And then you've got the prison leaders ordering drugs up from people in Mexico.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Mexico sends it up to Oklahoma,
12:43
SPEAKER_01: and then the prison gangs are sending their couriers on the outside to meet
12:49
SPEAKER_01: the cartel couriers.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And does that get distributed inside the prison system,
12:52
SPEAKER_00: or are they orchestrating that distribution outside the prison system from
12:56
SPEAKER_00: the prison system?
12:57
SPEAKER_00: That, yes.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a whole world.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Go ask OBN, FBI, DEA.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: They will tell you all of the major drug trafficking in Oklahoma runs through the prison system.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And why this matters is you might not care about organized crime persuade,
13:13
SPEAKER_01: but like all of us know somebody that's dealt with addiction.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I guarantee you that those drugs were sourced from Mexican cartel groups
13:21
SPEAKER_01: because pretty much all drugs in Oklahoma come from Mexico.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee you that they were probably brought up here by someone with a prison gang.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: They're ordered up by someone with a prison gang connection.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that is crazy.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's like the wire.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's like the wire stuff.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, the HBO show.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Where it's like the gang leaders are all sitting inside the prison.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And you've basically got this back and forth communication.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: And then whenever the next one gets indicted and sent to prison,
13:46
SPEAKER_00: there's just another person that pops in and does it.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: That is crazy.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Politics-wise, right now, in Oklahoma...
13:59
SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's more interest right now than I've seen in my lifetime in terms
14:04
SPEAKER_00: of just how prevalent the conversation is about politicians, who's running for what.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: I think some of that might have to do with the Maisie Drummond runoff race.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: That was, I don't know, I feel like that was well covered and it was in the sphere, like a lot.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: But why do you think people are more engaged right now?
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Or actually, do you agree with me?
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Do you agree that you feel like more people are engaged right now than you've seen?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: And why, do you think?
14:31
SPEAKER_01: So, because,
14:33
SPEAKER_01: even putting that, I mean,
14:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if what's going on nationally has anything to do with what's going on
14:40
SPEAKER_01: in Oklahoma.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: Oklahoma's always kind of existed in an island.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: It's weird.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: But no, what I think it is, Ryan, is that you've got now, what, bottom two, last in education.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: You know,
14:54
SPEAKER_01: we tout ourselves as a pro-business state,
14:56
SPEAKER_01: but I think CNBC ranked us like 39th in the country for business environment.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: I think you just have more Oklahomans that are getting pretty embarrassed
15:07
SPEAKER_01: by what's going on in the state.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: I think that's why there's actually more interest.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: And then, look, I think it helps.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: We've got a younger ticket on the Democratic side this year.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: Trump obviously inserted himself into the GOP primary.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: All of that, I think, has brought good attention.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Did you take anything away from that Maisie Drummond runoff race as you watched it,
15:31
SPEAKER_00: like the narratives that surrounded it, the results?
15:34
SPEAKER_00: How tight the result was?
15:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you draw anything away, like generally, or even like for your own campaign?
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, so I'm not sure for my own campaign,
15:43
SPEAKER_01: but just as a political observer like yourself,
15:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so
15:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was essentially 50-50.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: 2,000 votes?
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 2,000 votes,
15:52
SPEAKER_01: like one vote for precinct,
15:53
SPEAKER_01: which means that about,
15:55
SPEAKER_01: which means that 50% of those that voted in the Republican primary did not much care
15:59
SPEAKER_01: about the President of the United States endorsement.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was my takeaway, too.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and I think the Oklahoma did some reporting that showed...
16:10
SPEAKER_00: That in those precincts that had been heavy Trump precincts before,
16:17
SPEAKER_00: or like back in the 24 election,
16:19
SPEAKER_00: that those precincts didn't have the margins in favor of Maisie that they did
16:25
SPEAKER_00: in favor of Trump.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And that maybe the endorsement didn't swing even as heavily,
16:29
SPEAKER_00: even in those heavily concentrated pro-Trump areas.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the takeaways that I had was looking at it was I couldn't believe
16:36
SPEAKER_00: that even in Oklahoma,
16:37
SPEAKER_00: A state that has blood red as hard as we have in the last 20 years.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: That a moderate, centrist Republican could do that well in a runoff.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: I felt like that was encouraging for the rational,
16:52
SPEAKER_00: reasonable, not heavily identified identity politics.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: That was my takeaway too.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: That's a glass half full way to look at it.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm hopeful.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm hopeful.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Look, I firmly believe we can only really do better.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to be flippant.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: When we're 49th in education, we're bottom 5 in healthcare access.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: We're bottom 10 in pro-business.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: We can only go up.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to argue for the status quo whenever that is the status quo right now.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: So I've heard you say the words accountability,
17:29
SPEAKER_00: pro-business, and anti-corruption a lot in your campaign and speeches.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: You'd forgive us all for thinking those words sound kind of paradoxical in Oklahoma politics.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm running on them.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm running on them.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious how you think that stance would look different than how
17:50
SPEAKER_00: the Attorney General's office or even just state politics has looked recently.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Like how that stance would look in reality.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Like how would I put those into practice?
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I was trying to ask.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Accountability, yeah, is pretty easy.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
18:09
SPEAKER_01: you've heard me talk about all the different elected officials that have violated
18:12
SPEAKER_01: the law and nothing happens to them.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I still go back to the one that we had a state legislator pass a law
18:20
SPEAKER_01: so his wife could inherit her mom's tag agency.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: So there was a law in the books that said that the wives of legislators cannot own
18:28
SPEAKER_01: a tag agency because it's essentially a government agency, right?
18:31
SPEAKER_01: There's a conflict of interest.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: So he passed a law to remove that prohibition so his wife could do it.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, it was a supermajority in the House.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: All the Republicans voted for it.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Actually, one might not have.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: But there were Republicans and Democrats that voted for that.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know who it was.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: This was years ago.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: This was about six years ago.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: But seriously, shame on them for voting for that.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: But nothing happened to the guy, right?
18:54
SPEAKER_01: This was criminal.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: And, like, charges were filed by, oh, I think maybe it was the AG, then the DA.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: But regardless, the last attorney general stepped in and just dismissed it.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Nothing happened, right?
19:06
SPEAKER_01: So I get this question all the time.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: How can you ensure that something's done about corruption?
19:11
SPEAKER_01: It's pretty easy.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: You just bring the case.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
19:14
SPEAKER_01: I can name other instances where I feel like nothing happened because of concerns
19:20
SPEAKER_01: with politics.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so Drummond gave Ty Burns as a state legislator, who I think was Pawnee.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: He committed a brutal assault and battery on his wife.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the affidavit filed by the agent in that case says that he tried
19:36
SPEAKER_01: to gouge his wife's eyes out.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: There was a later instance a few months later where he drove his mother-in-law
19:42
SPEAKER_01: and daughter off the road.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: The AG steps in and gives Ty Burns, this legislator, a suspended sentence.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: It was announced the same day.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: The charges and the suspended sentence were announced the same day.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: That means essentially no jail time, suspended sentence.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously that was done for political reasons.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Why in the world?
20:01
SPEAKER_01: You can't be AG making decisions for political reasons like that.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: You can't.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: You've mentioned that on your campaign, too, that the AG's role— Should be nonpartisan.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: And if you're running from a partisan stance as the Attorney General,
20:15
SPEAKER_00: then you're already at odds with the responsibility of the Attorney General.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I agree with that 100%.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: And also,
20:22
SPEAKER_01: why are you locking yourself into,
20:23
SPEAKER_01: if you say, I'm going to do X, Y, and Z for political reasons,
20:29
SPEAKER_01: You're going to set yourself up to where you get into office and you might want
20:34
SPEAKER_01: to carry out that political agenda.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
20:37
SPEAKER_01: The lawsuit that you're thinking about filing or the position you're taking
20:40
SPEAKER_01: in court might not be grounded in facts in the law and you're going
20:43
SPEAKER_01: to make yourself look pretty silly.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: And you're also going to do a disservice for the people that work for you in
20:48
SPEAKER_01: the AG's office that are tasked with Prosecuting or defending that lawsuit on
20:53
SPEAKER_01: the front lines.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that would hurt morale, like up and down in terms of trust and faith in government.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So one thing that's confusing,
21:01
SPEAKER_00: I think,
21:02
SPEAKER_00: for me and for voters,
21:04
SPEAKER_00: is the difference between the federal attorney general role and
21:07
SPEAKER_00: a state attorney general role.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: Because the federal attorney general is appointed by the president and then confirmed...
21:15
SPEAKER_00: By the legislature.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: By the Senate, yep.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: And so in their responsibilities dual where they're a cabinet member for
21:21
SPEAKER_00: the president,
21:21
SPEAKER_00: so they're giving advice to the president,
21:23
SPEAKER_00: and they're basically at the president's whim for some policy movement,
21:28
SPEAKER_00: but they also have to have this non-biased,
21:31
SPEAKER_00: like purely legislature execution of law and order going on,
21:36
SPEAKER_00: or they're supposed
21:37
SPEAKER_01: to in
21:37
SPEAKER_00: reality.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: But in our state, you are not appointed.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: The attorney general is not going to be appointed.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's elected by the people.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So there is some remove at the state level because you are not necessarily tied.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: We're seeing that now.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Drummond and Stitt are constantly like,
21:55
SPEAKER_00: you know, there are several things that got into it.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: I was going to ask you about that in a second.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: The Constitutional Convention stuff, we'll get to that.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Can you just explain to people a little bit more about what
22:04
SPEAKER_00: the Attorney General actually does in the state of Oklahoma?
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: I don't even need to repeat what you said.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: I think you described how it works in the federal system very, very well.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: State system, again, the Attorney General It does not work for the governor.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: You're not the staff attorney for the governor.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: You are independently elected,
22:22
SPEAKER_01: which has,
22:23
SPEAKER_01: of course, you referenced, led to some conflicts here with AG and Governor Stitt.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: So what does the AG do, though, on a high level, right?
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Usually the question I get is, well, how is it different from a district attorney?
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: The AG has the powers of a district attorney, but almost broader.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: That's the easy way to think about it, right?
22:45
SPEAKER_01: The DAs are going to prosecute the local street crime.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: The AG can step in and take those cases if he wants,
22:53
SPEAKER_01: but it makes a lot of sense to leave those to the district attorneys.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're basically supervising and holding accountable the district attorneys
23:02
SPEAKER_00: to uphold state law.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's one part of your role.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so the district attorneys don't work for the attorney general, right?
23:09
SPEAKER_01: They've got their own mandate.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: They've got their own office.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Where really it can happen is so if...
23:16
SPEAKER_01: So let's use a concrete example.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: Remember here in Oklahoma City when that OCPD officer threw
23:22
SPEAKER_01: that 71-year-old Vietnamese man to the ground?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: He later died from his injuries?
23:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: So it didn't even make it to a trial.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: That shows, though, what the AG can do.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: They have essentially power to adopt all of that.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: We can talk more about that.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know that was possible, that an AG could do that.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: AG in Oklahoma,
23:54
SPEAKER_01: as far as its powers compared to other states,
23:58
SPEAKER_01: attorneys general, it's actually very broad.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So you can adopt cases from the district attorney's office.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: You can also bring your own...
24:06
SPEAKER_01: You also do things like sue over companies that are taking advantage of Oklahomans, right?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: State Farm, other insurance companies right now that have been in the news.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: That's a matter for the Attorney General.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: You also...
24:30
SPEAKER_01: Instruct state agencies on how to follow the law.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's something that's not as quite sexy,
24:35
SPEAKER_01: but it also is really important because state agencies want to make sure
24:38
SPEAKER_01: that they are following the law,
24:40
SPEAKER_01: they have clarity,
24:41
SPEAKER_01: and so they can look to the AG's office for guidance on how do we carry out,
24:46
SPEAKER_01: the law says this,
24:47
SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure that we're in compliance with the law, what do we do?
24:50
SPEAKER_00: A light bulb went off whenever I was just researching this.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Because you hear the word attorney general,
24:57
SPEAKER_00: and sometimes you hear a word so often that you forget what the word means.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And that you literally are the general attorney for the state.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Which means you do civil stuff and you advise the state on how to follow the law.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're like on retainer for every state agency.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Anytime there's something that needs interpreted...
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Or anything where they need representation.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like the Attorney General's office is the person that does all of that.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: And to be clear, Ryan,
25:19
SPEAKER_01: so they understand, you know, that's why this, I mean, the budget ebbs and flows.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: But like,
25:23
SPEAKER_01: that's why historically there have been,
25:25
SPEAKER_01: I think, probably in the last decade or so, no less than probably 100 attorneys.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: In the office.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're setting up a one-man shop.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: No, you're leading an office.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: It's a cool job.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: It is.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's every bit as important, I think, is the governor's role.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Are there term limits on the attorney general's office?
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good question.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Drew Edmondson was in there for, what, three terms?
25:50
SPEAKER_01: There might be now, but I certainly have no...
25:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know Drummond...
25:57
SPEAKER_01: If I win, yeah.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: No interest in that.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: No, Drummond just wanted to run for governor.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: That's why he left.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: That's why he stepped away.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: He obviously couldn't do that at the same time.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: He could have served for at least one more term and then run,
26:10
SPEAKER_01: but he made the calculus,
26:12
SPEAKER_01: thought that his best shot was now when the governor's seat was open.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: 2,000 votes.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: 2,000 votes.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, on Drummond.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: So please help us understand this.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Could you walk us through what's happening with Governor Stitt's call for a vote
26:26
SPEAKER_00: on having a constitutional convention?
26:28
SPEAKER_00: So I know our state constitution makes it clear the voters should be given
26:34
SPEAKER_00: the chance to vote every 20 years, but that's really up to the legislature.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And they haven't done that since 1970.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: So I know we're due.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: But it's unclear if STIC can even do this from the executive branch.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: And I know Drummond has said the governor cannot do this.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: And now there's like a civil suit that has been filed by a former state representative.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Mark McBride, yeah.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: Mark McBride, right?
26:55
SPEAKER_00: Moore, represent.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: So how is all this related to the attorney general's office?
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Help me understand this.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: It's really not related to the attorney general's office.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: I think McBride—I've not read the lawsuit detail,
27:10
SPEAKER_01: but I'm aware of the Constitutional Convention requirement.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: I think McBride is correct.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: I should say Representative McBride
27:17
SPEAKER_01: is correct.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: The governor can't just call for it.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not even sure that Governor Stitt was saying that we're going to have
27:23
SPEAKER_01: a Constitutional Convention because I'm calling for it.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I think he was just saying that we should do it.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is in the Constitution, right?
27:29
SPEAKER_01: The question about whether to update the Constitution—
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Is supposed to be put to the voters every 20 years.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: And so, but again, it's upon the legislature to act and they just haven't done it.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: And there's really no,
27:45
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:45
SPEAKER_01: I guess if the AG were somehow to try to enforce that requirement, look,
27:51
SPEAKER_01: the legislature,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: you guys haven't put the vote to the people about whether to have
27:56
SPEAKER_01: a constitutional convention.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: It would create an interesting separation of powers problem.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how do you enforce that?
28:04
SPEAKER_01: If the legislature says no,
28:07
SPEAKER_01: is there a state police that's going to go make the legislature do it?
28:10
SPEAKER_01: No.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I think the whole story is really interesting
28:13
SPEAKER_00: because I don't think anybody really cares to have a constitutional convention.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: There's not that many people out there banging down the door at the Capitol asking
28:22
SPEAKER_00: for this to happen.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: We have it insanely long.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: The question is, why are we doing this?
28:28
SPEAKER_01: We have an insanely long constitution.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: You could certainly shorten it, right?
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, the Oklahoma constitution is ridiculously long.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: So there would be opportunity to maybe trim this thing back if we did this.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Trim it back.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Clean it up and make it more modern maybe.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: But what do they want to – I mean, Ryan, what do they want to put in it?
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, other than making it efficient, easier to read, right?
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Are there uncertainties they want to clarify?
28:53
SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of this nebulous, let's have a constitutional convention.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: What do they want to do?
28:58
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of the,
29:00
SPEAKER_00: I forgot the number of the state question that was on the ballot a couple weeks ago,
29:03
SPEAKER_00: that was about the voter ID law,
29:05
SPEAKER_00: where it was going to be put into the state constitution.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: That there is a voter ID law, but they weren't going to tell you what that was.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: But there already was a
29:10
SPEAKER_01: voter ID law.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or a statute, yeah.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: A statute, right?
29:13
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, why do we even have to do that?
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, really, I mean, both those questions were, in my opinion, a way to...
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Give the legislature covered or not act now, right?
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Both of those state questions sort of left open.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay,
29:29
SPEAKER_01: this requirement will exist whether it relates to voter ID or whether it relates
29:34
SPEAKER_01: to reimbursements to counties, right?
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And they just said, we'll figure out later on what that reimbursement should be.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: We'll figure out later on what the voter ID should be.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Why didn't the legislature just decide now?
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, they're just putting off their
29:50
SPEAKER_00: responsibilities.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: The responsibility, as always, ends up coming back to the legislature to get stuff done.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: That's how it should be.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: That's how it should be.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so my next three questions to you are...
30:02
SPEAKER_00: About three topics that are constantly in the news.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: The first is something I've been wanting to ask you about for a while.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: And I wrote a piece on this this week, and that would be about cannabis.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: So we've been living in the Wild West for eight years in this state,
30:17
SPEAKER_00: basically ever since we passed State Question 788.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: How close do you think we are to containing the illegal grows and the myriad
30:25
SPEAKER_00: of other problems that have gone on in this industry?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And in your role as Attorney General,
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Would this be something that you're looking at, the cannabis industry?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: What's going on in there?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Any thoughts about this?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: So we're certainly closer now than we were four years ago,
30:42
SPEAKER_01: particularly when I was at the U.S. Attorney's Office dealing with a lot of this.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
30:45
SPEAKER_01: we indicted an attorney that had actually been involved in a ghost licensing scheme,
30:54
SPEAKER_01: essentially helping people get licenses that they didn't otherwise qualify.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: We indicted a real estate agent that was doing the same thing.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: I went after the owners and operators of this.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: So it was pretty nuts in 22 and 23.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: Just think about it.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you had like 5,000 or more grows operating.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: It's unbelievable.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: And it popped up overnight.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's crazy.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: So here's the real problem.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: The legislature did not cap the size of these grows.
31:23
SPEAKER_01: They did not cap the number of grows in the state.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: So these massive grows can exist where they can't exist in other states.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: And we're just asking the bad actors to move here.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: I had a case at the US Attorney's Office.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: I prosecuted a family that moved here.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: They're running a restaurant over in the...
31:42
SPEAKER_01: The Asian district here in Oklahoma City kind of is a front business
31:45
SPEAKER_01: and they're operating their marijuana business on the side.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: They were brokers.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: They actually moved from Michigan where it was recreational to Oklahoma
31:51
SPEAKER_01: where it was medicinal
31:53
SPEAKER_01: because they realized they could make more money here violating the medicinal laws
31:58
SPEAKER_01: and operating on the black market.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: I see these things in the law the legislature is doing
32:05
SPEAKER_01: where they're They're governing certain packaging that has to be on these labels
32:09
SPEAKER_01: of products sold in dispensaries.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: These are Band-Aids.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: If you actually want to fix the system, you've got to cap the size of the grows.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: There can't be a thousand marijuana grows in the state because OBN
32:23
SPEAKER_01: and OMMA can't police them all.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: There's no way.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: There's no way.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: And all it's done is really it's done a disservice to Oklahomans
32:31
SPEAKER_01: that sold their life savings and tried to get into the industry
32:34
SPEAKER_01: because they got driven out by the bad actors because they were trying to follow
32:39
SPEAKER_01: the law.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: They couldn't make any money.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: That's the disservice here is that you pass this law under this guise of it being
32:45
SPEAKER_00: a medicinal product.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: And it was going to go
32:47
SPEAKER_01: to education.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: So another issue.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: But it ended up basically functioning as an unregulated recreational product
32:58
SPEAKER_00: because it was, again, the Wild West.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And so all that oversupply ended up being sent out through the dispensaries at really low cost.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: And so then the actual legal grows didn't have buyers because the market was so trimmed down.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like it's starting, but it seems like we've just begun kind of the cleanup process.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: It's gotten better because OBN,
33:19
SPEAKER_01: which they'll be the first to admit, they just weren't ready for this.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: They've gotten better at enforcement.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: That has taken out some of the bad actors in the industry.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: OMMA has gotten better at verifying who owns these grows.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: They've denied more applications, is my understanding.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: It's getting better,
33:36
SPEAKER_01: but again,
33:37
SPEAKER_01: if the legislature actually wants to fix this, describe what they've got to do.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: These Band-Aids, they're putting on it right now, aren't going to help.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And going back and revoking the question or repealing the question like was talked
33:49
SPEAKER_00: about in the State of the State by Governor St.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's going to happen.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: There's no way it can happen.
33:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, one, it's
33:55
SPEAKER_00: kind of, it's undemocratic, right?
33:58
SPEAKER_00: But then, because people voted for it, 300,000 people own the cards.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: But also, why is he putting the impetus, why is he saying, put it on the ballot again?
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Why doesn't the legislature, if the legislature wants to repeal it, then go do it.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: But they don't want to do it because they realize it's not the right thing to do.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: They can go repeal it.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Again, example of taking the legislature's responsibilities and they're putting them off.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: It's like, Responsible for what we can do today is hard to do sometimes.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I saw you were just out in Enola.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Was that last week?
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Was that two
34:29
SPEAKER_01: weeks ago?
34:30
SPEAKER_01: No, we weren't in Enola.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: We're going to Enola the 26th for a town hall.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: But we were out in northeast Oklahoma for something related to
34:36
SPEAKER_01: a big power line they're laying out there.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, these might relate.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Relatable thing.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: So I know you've talked to people, though,
34:44
SPEAKER_00: that are associated or could potentially be impacted by the Enola smelter project.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: What are they saying right now?
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Can you just kind of tell us what people in that area are saying about the project?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, they're not scientists, and nor am I.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: But they've done enough research to understand that this is going
35:07
SPEAKER_01: to affect their fish farm,
35:08
SPEAKER_01: or this is going to affect the cattle that they raise, the crops that they grow.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, shoot.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: My family's out in Okarchi still, right?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: Raising wheat and growing cattle.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And I guarantee you they would be not very happy if a smelter was going to go
35:25
SPEAKER_01: within three to four miles of them.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Look, they're just worried about their livelihood.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of questions that they have that have still not been answered.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And I mean,
35:37
SPEAKER_01: the difficult thing, Ryan,
35:38
SPEAKER_01: is that They're giving us different projections
35:42
SPEAKER_01: on how much hydrogen fluoride is going to be emitted per ton of aluminum produced,
35:46
SPEAKER_01: but we don't know how much aluminum this thing is going to produce at full capacity,
35:52
SPEAKER_01: which means it's pretty impossible to figure out how much hydrogen fluoride is going
35:56
SPEAKER_01: to be on their cattle crops and their other livestock like fish.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: When those numbers are moving all the time,
36:02
SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard for a population who's going to be impacted by that
36:06
SPEAKER_00: to trust how this is actually going on.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: And what the numbers are going to look like.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think the history of our state and its past record
36:17
SPEAKER_00: of regulating these projects is suspect.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's just,
36:22
SPEAKER_00: it seems like there's obviously could be some benefit to this happening.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: There would be jobs, obviously.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: But I think it's incredibly reasonable to ask the questions
36:31
SPEAKER_00: that these people are asking and continue the moratorium.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: I saw that got extended again.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: They're not going to put it on the citywide vote.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be on the ballot in April.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: So they're going to vote whether to essentially ban smelting within the city limits.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Would that end
36:49
SPEAKER_00: this conversation
36:52
SPEAKER_01: if they did that?
36:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, again,
36:55
SPEAKER_01: lawsuits are being threatened by the aluminum project,
36:59
SPEAKER_01: and I think even Governor Stitt's weighed in on it.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: But I have not seen a legal theory yet that firmly convinces me that That
37:08
SPEAKER_01: the people cannot just vote to ban it.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: It sounds fairly democratic.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: It does sound, yeah, democratic.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, any process that goes against that would
37:16
SPEAKER_00: seem... Well,
37:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
37:17
SPEAKER_01: think about...
37:17
SPEAKER_01: And also,
37:18
SPEAKER_01: when I think about how this thing was passed originally,
37:20
SPEAKER_01: the city council in Inola did not know that this was going to be
37:23
SPEAKER_01: an aluminum smelter.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: They just knew it was going to be a manufacturing project.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Really?
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Huh.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: So that's how the door opened?
37:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: It was that vote.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: And it was an NDA.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: There was an NDA involved.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: Which there are for these data centers and other projects.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: That just puts all the power in a small number of people's hands,
37:42
SPEAKER_00: though, for something that could impact so many people from the jump.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's smart.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: It's smart law.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: But wow.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for telling me about that.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Something I need to research some more.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: No problem.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: I imagine you have a lot of conversations with people about data centers.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: It seems the main contention with this is the increased power bills.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: You were just talking about this subject with a community, maybe in,
38:10
SPEAKER_01: where was that?
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Maybe in Welch?
38:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I saw you talking about that.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: What does Oklahoma have to do to protect the people around the data centers
38:20
SPEAKER_00: from experiencing these increased power bills?
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And would that be a part of your role?
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: The easiest thing that they need to do is pass better legislation that ensures
38:29
SPEAKER_01: that these costs aren't passed off onto consumers, right?
38:38
SPEAKER_01: There is a White House Ratepayer Protection Pledge that our state,
38:42
SPEAKER_01: including OG&E and PSO, have signed off onto.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: And in that pledge,
38:46
SPEAKER_01: they say that none of the costs caused by data centers coming are going
38:50
SPEAKER_01: to be passed off onto consumers.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: I filed a public comment at the Corporation Commission
38:54
SPEAKER_01: in some cases involving this issue because – Look,
38:58
SPEAKER_01: they're saying that they won't be passed off on to consumers under the way
39:02
SPEAKER_01: the law is written.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: But then why is the way the law written?
39:04
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't track what is in the White House Retpayer Protection Pledge.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: So, again, you can have a – there are two ways to really protect consumers.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: One, the legislature needs to write better legislation.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is if they're not going to,
39:17
SPEAKER_01: that means the attorney general is going to be even more important,
39:19
SPEAKER_01: which means that it's going to give essentially
39:21
SPEAKER_01: the Corporation Commission more leeway.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: So it sounds not just possible that that could happen.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: It sounds probable if there's not a lot of intention.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: It's already happening.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: From the Corporation Commission.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's already happening.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: OG&E...
39:50
SPEAKER_01: They built,
39:51
SPEAKER_01: you know,
39:52
SPEAKER_01: battery project, new plants essentially, worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: And the witness in the case,
39:58
SPEAKER_01: OG&E's witness said the reason they were building these was
40:00
SPEAKER_01: because they have anticipated demand from data centers coming.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: So data centers are causing the increase,
40:05
SPEAKER_01: but the way that this case is being decided,
40:08
SPEAKER_01: the Corporation Commission, all those costs already got pushed off onto us.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: They're getting pushed off onto us.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: But again, this is so technical that it's not in the news.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: And it really is hard for local media to.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: And I've had to educate myself.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: How do you make a headline out of that?
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: It's really, really hard for local media to follow what's going on in the corporation.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: It's hard for me to follow.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: And so again, these data centers and the utility companies.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: I'll come back on.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: We can talk about it.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: I think it's the issue of the decade,
40:37
SPEAKER_01: the way that we're going to be affected by these data centers.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: The issue of the decade.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's an issue that is prevalent all the time.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think people are just now coming around to how much energy
40:51
SPEAKER_00: and water these centers are going to use.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think the question is, how much utility is this driving in our own lives?
40:58
SPEAKER_00: And this kind of opens up to the whole AI conversation that's happening nationally
41:01
SPEAKER_00: and the great AI freakout that's happening nationally.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: Right now, all around us.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: But, I don't know, it's a crazy subject.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's so nuanced.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to understand the layers of it.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's go back to the smelter.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I think it's supposed to use,
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I might be selling this short,
41:15
SPEAKER_01: I think it's supposed to use the equivalent of 800,000 households worth of power.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: The scary thing is there's no law.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: 800,000?
41:25
SPEAKER_00: 800,000.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: That's Tulsa.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: It's basically Tulsa.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: And the scary thing is there's this law that I described that is supposed
41:32
SPEAKER_01: to govern what essentially protecting consumers,
41:35
SPEAKER_01: though I don't think it goes far enough.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing in place for the smelter.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: And so right now I've heard that they're trying
41:40
SPEAKER_01: to negotiate essentially discounted electricity rates to operate.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Why are we giving them discounted electricity rates?
41:46
SPEAKER_01: We should get discounted electricity rates.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Why are we giving this massive project discounted electricity rates?
41:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the people who live around the smelter.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: They should have discounted electricity rates.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Should have to pay no electricity
41:54
SPEAKER_01: if they're also getting like hydrogen fluoride dumped on their property.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: That would seem reasonable.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're wrapping up here.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: When I think about campaigning for a high-profile position,
42:06
SPEAKER_00: I think about how you constantly have your character called into question,
42:09
SPEAKER_00: constantly have people asking you about your life,
42:12
SPEAKER_00: and constantly having to have a plan for people's problems.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: I would think that that pressure would cause you to grow.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: And evolve over time, just constantly thinking and reacting to people.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just wondering,
42:26
SPEAKER_00: since you started this almost a year ago, how do you feel like you've changed?
42:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's this process been like just for you personally?
42:34
SPEAKER_01: I certainly value my relationships more than I ever have.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, campaigns are funny.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: There are people that you thought would support you that didn't.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: And there are people that you weren't really sure if they would support you.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: And they're your biggest backers, biggest proponents.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: Made me value family.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: You know,
43:00
SPEAKER_01: it just made me value family in the sense that it takes a,
43:02
SPEAKER_01: you know, I'm very close to my parents, very close to my sisters.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Got a really good group of friends here.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: Makes me thankful for that.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: And as we were talking about before we went on camera, I mean, I...
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Lost a really good friend in June, and it puts things into perspective, right?
43:21
SPEAKER_01: I am sure we've got less than 50 days left.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: I am sure that the fellow I'm running against is going to ramp up attacks and try
43:29
SPEAKER_01: to tear me down.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: But look, if you can deal with losing a friend, then dealing with some mean words.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: Aimed at you.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not that big of a deal.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of puts it all in perspective.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: Reminds you why you're doing this too.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Right, it's not.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: To preserve reputation.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: It's not to die on every single negative comment that somebody says about you
43:56
SPEAKER_00: on social media or whatever, right?
43:57
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just, there are a
43:59
SPEAKER_01: lot.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: It's how it goes.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is politics.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: My friends love reading them.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you get screenshots all the time.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, Nick, did you see what this guy said about you?
44:07
SPEAKER_00: They think they're hilarious.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure I know some of those people that find it hilarious.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:11
SPEAKER_00: So, are you used to seeing your name in the yards yet?
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, in the yard signs?
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Are you used to seeing it?
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Are you like, oh, yeah, that's me,
44:18
SPEAKER_00: you know?
44:21
SPEAKER_01: I run with a group here, and we run from Harvey Bakeries a lot of mornings.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Just my running group.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: That's where I saw you a couple months ago.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: So we'll run in this area, and there are signs around.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: But look, it's not like I'm some national figure.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: That happens to be an
44:39
SPEAKER_01: election in two months,
44:41
SPEAKER_01: and I'm
44:42
SPEAKER_00: less than that, and I'm just very grateful for the support.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: And we are wishing you luck in November.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Ryan.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: I just appreciate you joining us today, and I know you're a busy man, so this time is valuable.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it again.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk more ball next time.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk more ball.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk Thunder basketball.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's get to the championship.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk once.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: When's our home opener?
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Like October.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: It's always late October, but who is it?
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think we play the Spurs first.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: I think it might be at San Antonio.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know when our home opener is.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: Probably like the next game after that or something like that.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: But I cannot wait.
45:14
SPEAKER_01: Let me get through the election and we'll come back and we'll talk.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Because you're firing this thing up all the time.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: All the time, man.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm already thinking about Thunder content.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: We've got the same press conference coming up.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: Couldn't be a better time of year.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Nick.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Ryan.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you, man.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: If you are not yet registered to vote, this is your reminder to go get registered to vote.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma has some of the lowest, or maybe the lowest voter turnout of any state in the country.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: It'd be awesome if we started to make a dent in that.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to this, I assume you are probably registered to vote, but go out and do it.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: If you don't even know where you're supposed to vote,
45:49
SPEAKER_00: you don't know where your precinct is, that is all available online, surprisingly.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: I just found this out a couple weeks ago because I was wondering where my voting location was.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: All you have to do is go online, type in like, where's my voting location?
46:01
SPEAKER_00: It'll pull up this portal.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: In the portal, type in your name, birthday, boom.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Tells you everything you need to know.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, into this week's edition of a rather concerning Oklahoma News Roundup.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this one's going to require we get into the healthcare weeds a bit,
46:20
SPEAKER_00: but I believe it's going to be worth our effort.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Turnkey Health,
46:24
SPEAKER_00: now known as TK Health,
46:26
SPEAKER_00: appears to be headed into to a jury trial for allegedly violating
46:30
SPEAKER_00: the constitutional rights of a 74-year-old inmate,
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Marvin May, who died while in Custer County Jail in 2022.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: If you're wondering why Turnkey might sound familiar, there are a couple of reasons.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: First being, they've been in the news before.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Second being, one of the owners of Turnkey is a name you'll also recognize.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: We'll get to that in a second.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: So Turnkey was the healthcare contractor Responsible in the Cleveland County Jail
46:57
SPEAKER_00: where the Norman Baker Shannon Hanchett died 11 days after imprisonation back
47:02
SPEAKER_00: in 2024, I believe.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to get into that case, but gosh, there's some amazing reporting on this.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: Done by the Frontier and also done, I think, by Oklahoma Watch, if I'm not mistaken.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: But yes, there's so much good stuff done on this.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: All I can say,
47:18
SPEAKER_00: as a foreign practicing psychiatrist,
47:20
SPEAKER_00: is that if a woman was psychotic, like truly, from a mental...
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Health crisis.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like she might have been and she was left alone to essentially die?
47:34
SPEAKER_00: Like this was allegedly done?
47:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like unbelievably inhumane.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: I think, and that's probably the kindest way you could possibly say that.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: It's worth noting that Cleveland County just paid out her family,
47:51
SPEAKER_00: I think last week, $20 million.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: It's also worth noting that Cleveland County and Turnkey Health ended their contract in 2025.
48:01
SPEAKER_01: Why would they ever want to end that relationship, I wonder?
48:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, back to the Marvin May case.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: It's been in the news this week.
48:09
SPEAKER_00: According to the lawsuit,
48:11
SPEAKER_00: As reported in the Oklahoman extensively,
48:14
SPEAKER_00: May was 74 years old and was incarcerated for two months.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: At the time of incarceration, he entered at 275 pounds.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: Again, this is all out of the lawsuit.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: Had diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and Alzheimer's, reportedly.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: It's also reported he refused his meals for three weeks and lost 52 pounds while
48:33
SPEAKER_00: under the care of Custer County's and Turnkey's contracted medical providers.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: It can be presumed that this was not a hunger strike.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Because the man had dementia.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: He was 74 years old.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: Also, we presumed that he may have also been delirious,
48:49
SPEAKER_00: as people with dementia can get when they don't get adequate nutrition.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: But again, I wasn't there.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Hard to know these things without seeing the patient.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Allegedly, across his 52 days in jail, he was treated...
49:03
SPEAKER_00: By LPNs,
49:05
SPEAKER_00: regular nurses,
49:06
SPEAKER_00: and received,
49:07
SPEAKER_00: okay, get ready for this, one telehealth visit from a nurse practitioner.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: In this visit, it was recommended that he be seen again in 90 days.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: During this visit, again, this is in the alleged lawsuit.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: It's reported that they knew that he was losing weight and that he'd lost or
49:32
SPEAKER_00: that he hadn't eaten in seven days.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And still, they just recommended that he only needed to be seen again in 90 days.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: That right there is all the health care that he allegedly received.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: 52 days in, he fell out of his bunk and died.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: Side question, why was he in a bunk?
49:52
SPEAKER_00: The guy's 74 years old.
49:53
SPEAKER_00: He's got Alzheimer's.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: He hasn't ate in weeks.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: He's lost 50 pounds.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: That is like classic recipe for orthostatic hypotension and dizziness.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: What are we doing?
50:04
SPEAKER_00: The cause of death listed by the medical examiner was COVID.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: The family states in the lawsuit
50:12
SPEAKER_00: that Turnkey Health purposefully didn't do COVID tests so they wouldn't have to pay
50:17
SPEAKER_00: for his transportation to an outside hospital for treatment if he tested positive.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea if that's true.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: I think they're putting words in Turnkey's mouth.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that is, maybe it's not.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: Seems more likely that there probably just wasn't even enough staff around
50:30
SPEAKER_00: to even do the COVID test.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay,
50:34
SPEAKER_00: Turnkey's contract with Custer County did not require an on-site physician Now,
50:42
SPEAKER_00: I could see how somebody could read that and think that that's wild,
50:46
SPEAKER_00: but that's pretty par for the course, I think in my personal experience.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: Physicians cover these centers pretty widely.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Most of the time they're responsible for covering multiple prisons.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: And are usually only there if there's a true medical emergency.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but still,
51:04
SPEAKER_00: it sounds like there was obviously not an on-site physician or even a way to get
51:10
SPEAKER_00: an on-site physician.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Other interesting comments from the May family's attorney, Dan Smolin.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: So, the on-site nurse practitioner who was responsible for caring for Mr.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: May was also responsible for overseeing the care for 13 other facilities in
51:23
SPEAKER_00: the area.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: 13.
51:25
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, 13.
51:26
SPEAKER_00: That nurse practitioner testified and said she was so overwhelmed that she resigned.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: Note, no mention of a visit.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Also, that nurse practitioner was not the,
51:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if that nurse practitioner was the one that saw the patient
51:38
SPEAKER_00: because the one that saw the patient saw the patient in a virtual visit.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:42
SPEAKER_00: Note, nurse practitioners do not have any oversight by physicians
51:47
SPEAKER_00: in Oklahoma once they have met a certain threshold of hours of experience.
51:52
SPEAKER_00: They're basically free to practice indiscriminately.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: So, based on this setup,
51:56
SPEAKER_00: it sounds like there was no way that Mr.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: May could have actually seen a physician while in prison.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Unless he got sent outside of the prison.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: But it sounds like there wasn't a lot of medical care to even be able to decide
52:10
SPEAKER_00: if he needed to go seek medical care.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Just think about that.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: This guy didn't eat for weeks,
52:16
SPEAKER_00: was losing weight,
52:16
SPEAKER_00: was probably demented and delirious, and couldn't possibly see a physician.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Only had one virtual visit with an NP.
52:24
SPEAKER_00: This is news again for two reasons.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: This is the first time a jury will be involved in a civil suit against Turnkey.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: There have been a lot of complaints in the news about Turnkey dating back to 2014.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: A federal judge ruled this week that,
52:40
SPEAKER_00: finally, Turnkey will be able to be judged in the court of law by a jury civilly.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: The second reason this is in the news is the co-founder of Turnkey Health
52:51
SPEAKER_00: and current minority owner is John Eccles.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: The former state representative who was running against Nick Coffey for attorney general.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Just a little food for thought, y'all.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: Just a little food for thought.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: This might not be news to you.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, next item.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: But it was to me.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: Back to the prison system.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma Watch put out some reporting a couple weeks back that I missed.
53:20
SPEAKER_00: But here's the headlines.
53:22
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma prison inmates operated political insurance calls from a call center behind bars.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: That is not sci-tire, folks.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: That is a real story.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: More.
53:35
SPEAKER_00: Inmates are working for a company called HBD Leads,
53:39
SPEAKER_00: who has a contract with the Oklahoma Department of Corrections as of January 2026.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: You might be asking yourself, what kind of calls are these inmates making?
53:49
SPEAKER_00: Political calls, mostly.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: Like 800 political calls a day per inmate.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, they're calling voters all over the country,
53:59
SPEAKER_00: but they're also calling a lot of voters in Oklahoma,
54:02
SPEAKER_00: and they are asking them to vote for whoever is paying the company HBD leads.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: Or they're calling and doing this thing called push polling,
54:11
SPEAKER_00: which is where they say,
54:12
SPEAKER_00: hey, I'm calling on behalf of such and such with such and such polling organization.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Who are you voting for?
54:18
SPEAKER_00: Depending on who the person they're calling says they're voting for,
54:23
SPEAKER_00: the inmate would then try to convince them to go vote for whoever the candidate was
54:27
SPEAKER_00: that HBD leads was paying them to endorse.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: Again, that's push polling.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: One inmate was interviewed by Oklahoma Watch and said that he did readouts saying
54:38
SPEAKER_00: that the calls were funded by a super PAC out of Virginia called Make Liberty Win
54:43
SPEAKER_00: who supports conservative candidates.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: One of the inmates they interviewed said that he'd been in prison for so long
54:49
SPEAKER_00: that he didn't even know what MAGA was.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Saying, we were asked to talk about the swamp and everything like that.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what a swamp is.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: I've been in prison for too long to catch up on some of these terms
55:00
SPEAKER_00: that they're asking me to say.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: Wild.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: So these inmates, they made calls again all across the country.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: But one inmate said the majority of the calls that he made in Oklahoma were
55:12
SPEAKER_00: on behalf of a guy named Mike Mazey.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: Some of them also mentioned the name John Eccles.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: No Oklahoma candidate has said that they paid the parent company,
55:24
SPEAKER_00: HBD Leeds, any money to do political advertising for them.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, HBD Leeds was who was doing these calls.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: They're who have the contract with the Oklahoma Department of Corrections.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: And no reports to the Oklahoma Ethics Commission have been made about this.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: I find this very interesting that the state of Oklahoma is getting paid to
55:49
SPEAKER_00: the Oklahoma Department of Corrections by Super PACs, essentially,
55:54
SPEAKER_00: To do calls trying to push one particular party over another party in state elections.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: How this is even possible?
56:04
SPEAKER_00: I guess this is actually legal.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: So this is not technically illegal to do this.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: And apparently this has been happening for several years.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: So again, maybe you've heard about this.
56:13
SPEAKER_00: I have not.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: I just find this to be unethical.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll go with that.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Unethical.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: Last bit of news this week.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Some sad news here.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: For moviegoers.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: Harkins Theaters,
56:28
SPEAKER_00: the owner of the Downtown Theater on the Brooktown Canal,
56:30
SPEAKER_00: isn't going to show A24 movies anymore.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: So if you're a fan of the horror or psychological thriller genre,
56:37
SPEAKER_00: this is some horrible news for you.
56:39
SPEAKER_00: I guess they just couldn't come to some agreement.
56:41
SPEAKER_00: So A24 is out with Harkins.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: So A24 made Hereditary, Midsommar.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: Along with the most recent Marty Supreme, The Brutalist.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: So yeah,
56:51
SPEAKER_00: for their future stuff,
56:53
SPEAKER_00: which I'm sure they've got good stuff cooking for spooky season coming up.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: You're just going to have to go to Flix or Warren.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: Actually, no.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: Shout out to Tinseltown.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: I saw Spider-Man there a couple of weeks back and Tinseltown was great.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: It was clean.
57:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know people got spooked by the gang shootings that happened there like 20 years ago.
57:12
SPEAKER_00: That might even have been like 30 years ago now.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that was in like the 90s, but I really enjoy my time in there.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
57:18
SPEAKER_00: And they have cheaper tickets than anywhere else in the city, by the way.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: Tinseltown.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: Keep it local.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: All right.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: If you do not want to miss our next interview or our next comprehensive analysis
57:31
SPEAKER_00: of Oklahoma's food scene or the state fair,
57:34
SPEAKER_00: which we will be releasing a state fair exit survey next week after I go to
57:40
SPEAKER_00: the fair tomorrow night.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: Pray for my well-being, by the way.
57:43
SPEAKER_00: I will be there on the first Friday night at the fair.
57:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so pumped.
57:48
SPEAKER_00: So pumped.
57:48
SPEAKER_00: All right.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe to The Dry Line Podcast.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: Like our stuff.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: Send it to anyone that you think loves Oklahoma City and Oklahoma at large.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: And please, if you have a second, drop us a review.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
58:00
SPEAKER_00: Until the next time, I know where to find us at Powerhouse.
58:04
SPEAKER_01: Oklahoma, where the wind comes sweeping down the plains.
58:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, God.