Latest / Dear Chelsea / In Defense of Bathhouses with Dan Savage

Transcript

In Defense of Bathhouses with Dan Savage · Dear Chelsea

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi, Catherine, how are you doing. I'm great, You're back home.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: What's new in your world? We taped our special in Nashville. Well,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I say our special because Joe directed it for me,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: which was such a delight. It was so nice to
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: have a man not only be everything he is in
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: my life, but to be able to go into something
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: creative like shooting my next stand up special and not
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: have to deal with any of the minutia that I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: am not interested in, which is camera angles, jib shots,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: gimbal shots. They are all sorts of cameras that I've
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: never fucking heard of, and I don't want to know
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: anything more about them. Curtains and drapery and lighting and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: la la la la. Joe did everything for me. He
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: arranged everything. He just asked me to pick out certain
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: colors and this and that, and then went in and
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: got on stage at like nine in the morning at
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the theater with my producers Michelle and Shannon, who are
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: an incredible producing team, and I he goes, come in
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: at four thirty, honey, do whatever you need to do
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to get in the zone and just come in and
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: four thirty and I was the most most experience I've
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: ever had, And I am so grateful to have not
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: only a partner, but somebody who has in this world
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that I operate in shorthand Yeah, and he's cool and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: it has style, like you know, so I don't have
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to think about any of that. And I'm just it
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: was just a delight. So we're home now, we've been
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: on the road for three weeks and we're home. So
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: it's time for me to de bloat, because this travel
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: section really got after me drinking, eating, drinking, eating, traveling constipation.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, what is that? Why do you when
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you travel you don't go to the bathroom. I don't
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: like that at all. And then I tried this new product,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: this green drink, which I was like, great because it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: makes you go to the bathroom a lot, but then
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: you're constipated for two days after so I think it
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: cleans you out so much that you've got nothing left
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to give for two days. And then, uh, so our
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: plane ride home was just long, long, long, because I
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: just wanted to detox. You know, I'm feeling already so
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: much better being home good, and to make your own
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: choices and like eat what you want to eat that
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: makes you feel good. My therapist and I even talking
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a lot about that, like mindfulness and intuitive eating, eating
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: what you know in a half an hour is gonna
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: make your body feel good and just like little swaps, yes, yes, yes,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: because it's nice and like eating clean makes you such
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: a difference in your mental clarity, and like for me,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: that is everything because I hate feeling foggy and on
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the road. Inevitably I start to drink, I start to
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: eat badly. You know, you make poor decisions when you're hungover.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: You think you're gonna be able to stick to your
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: diet even when you drink, but it's not like that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: You wake up, you have a bad night of sleep,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: then you need more food for fuel comfort, and then
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you go and make bad decisions. And when I eat clean,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just I have higher energy levels. Yeah, absolutely, and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: you're just like feel better, like physically, you don't get that,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: like you said, tons of bloating. You don't get that
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: nauseous feeling if you're you know, having a potato chip
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I had a bag of Cheetos
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: on the road. Was my first bag of Cheetos probably
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and like two years and yeah, and I started for
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: three days, so I'm not eating studios again. It's so disgusting.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I did get to see my nephew though. We picked
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: him up. He was in Detroit. I had a show
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: an Ontario Windsor. So we picked him up in Detroit
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and drove across the bridge to Canada with him, trying
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to deprogram him from his ultra conservative views. Not ultra
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: but too conservative for my liking. His mother has been
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: programming him for a long time. Indoctrinating him is how
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I like to frame it. Um. She's a Russian nationalist.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: So we had to, you know, say, and we did.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: All of us had a really good time kind of
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: debating back and forth to do with him about what
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: he thinks is the real state of things. Yeah, did
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: you hear feel some movement on him? Because he's nineteen.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: My security guy Buddha was there and he's like, you know, Chelsea,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was in nineteen. I believe that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: ship too, you know, like he he said things like, oh,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if I don't believe racism
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: is as big of a problem as people make it
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: out to be. And it's likely if you're white, you're
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't know, how would you know, you're white and
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: your nineteen and your whole life is set up for success. Yeah. Yeah,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: he's in college. He's interning, and I mean thankfully he's
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: in college because he's going to be around other people
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: that will hopefully open his eyes and mined up to things.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: But he's still upset that he didn't get into, you know,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: the college he wanted to get into. And you know,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: he thinks that somebody else took his spot that was
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: maybe less qualified, and we had to explain to him
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: why that's not even an issue. So shut the suck up.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: If he didn't get a four point oh, then you know, yeah,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it's not someone else's fault. Martha came to my show. Yeah,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Martha Stork came to my show in God, it's so
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: hard to remember where I just want Yes, yes, she
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and her crew came. That was fun, and Joe came
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: on stage with us. So it was good to see
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Martha out and about maybe she's eighty years old, she's
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: like still very beautiful. Yes, yes, radiant, that's what I said.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I said, luminous. She really Joe's because we looked it
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: up at lunch after Joe met her outside Joe's like,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: how old is that woman? I mean, she seems young
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I know, I think she's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: probably late seventies. And then I looked it up and
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: she's eighty. Yeah. People are getting older. People are getting
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: older and happening. One of my great grandmother said, you
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: never truly mature until you hit eighty really, so maybe
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: she's mature. Now, Well, what about who people who don't
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: hit eighties? I mean, what's their story. I definitely don't
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: feel fully mature, and I don't know when that's going
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to hit me because I'm sucking forty seven, so I
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: would like that to hit sooner than later. Although it
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't sound super fun to be mature, like that just
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: sounds I feel like I'm already less fun than I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: used to be, Like I want to go to bed
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: at nine thirty. Last night, Joe and I were up
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and and he came home at like six thirty, and
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I had already taken my edible with dinner, so I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: was fading out around. I was already like tired at
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: six thirty, but I just came back from the East Coast,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: so I was kind of I used that excuse when
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: it's suits me that I was on East Coast time
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: only when it suits me, and I'm like, well, it's
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: nine thirty and I usually like to go to bed
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: around ten thirty, you know. But I was fading out
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and he's like, do you want to go out and
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: get a juice somewhere? And I just looked at him like, no,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I don't leave the house. I'm not I don't want
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to go anywhere. I fell asleep on the sofa. We
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: watched one episode of the Staircase to get him up
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to speed, the fictionalized the sc scripted version, not fictionalized,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: because they actually say because I was toggling back and
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: forth between The Staircase the HBO Max One and then
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: going to Netflix to see like, oh, is that girlfriend
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: of his the documentarian in the Staircase documentary? But then
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, idiot, you're high shoot. No documentarian
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: puts themselves in the documentary, especially when they're sucking the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: person that there is starring in the documentary. So that
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: didn't make any sense. But that show is so disturbing
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and that guy is so guilty, it's just so ridiculous.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And then the sexy and it's like that sex scene
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: of him eating her ass in the kitchen. I heard
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: about this, I haven't seen. I've seen the documentary, but
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen. Well, it's obviously not in the documentary,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: but it's because that they took a little license with
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: that eating her ass in the kitchen, and it's like,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: first of all, who's ready to get their asset in
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: the middle afternoon? I mean, you need to prep for that.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: And then there was another really gross sex scene between
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Tony Glenn and Colin Firth. I mean, Colin Firth really
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: pulls it off because he plays a very He is disturbing,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: you know, and creepy and like, I mean he's so good, yeah,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, Yeah, he's a really yeah, he's a
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: really good actor. Because even when they've interview him behind
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the scenes for the staircase, you're like, oh, you're actually
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: sexy in real life. You've made yourself kind of unsexy,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: not kind of. But what I still don't understand is
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: if my father, like if my mother was found at
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the stairwell by my father, even if
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: it was my birth father, I would not be on
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: his side. There is no chance that I would believe
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: any of that horseship. So the fact that four of
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: his children are so fucked up that they believe that
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: their father is innocent when everything is pointing to the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: fact that he is not makes me I rate big
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: spoiler alert. I don't even know if I should say
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: this to you, but what happened in his past? Yeah,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, especially after you find that out, it's like,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, well who cares those Either you saw
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: the show where you didn't and I want to say,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: there's a scene in the movie or one of the
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: things where they say, oh, you there is no such
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: thing as a serial staircase killer, right, because I'm like,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: there is now, this is one, like, it's not to accidents,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: it's just not right. And then the other ex wife
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: from the past, he's all, you know, out of sorts.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, she's a hot mess too and has
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: been brainwashed or brain injured. You know. Yeah, good points.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So anyway, that's been keeping us busy for a while.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: But I think we're going to move on to Atlanta
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: now because I'm behind in Atlanta and I want to
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: catch up with because I hear that's a really good show. Yeah.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: We watched the first couple of seasons of that and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed it, but then it's taken kind of so
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: long for new season's to come out that we've sort
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: of falling off the wagon with that. We've gotta jump
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: back on that train. Well before we get to all
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: the fun stuff, We'll take a quick break. Okay, sounds good,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Oh. Our guest today is a
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: an advice columnist himself. You probably know him from his
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: advocacy work on the It Gets Better campaign. He is
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: a co writer of the upcoming film called Spoiler Alert,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: and he is the host of Savage Love Cast, which
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: is in its season. Please welcome Dan Savage. Hi, Dan, Hey, Chelsea. Hi,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: It's nice to see you again. The last time we
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: saw each other was at a dinner party that we
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: were filming for my Netflix show Right, yeah, your house.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I made Jennifer Garner sad. That's what I remember about
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: that dinner. Jennifer Garner. What was sad? Yeah, because she
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: was talking about Republicans and ma reaching them, and I
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: kind of felt that there was no reaching them. And
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I think I've been proven right over the last few
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: years there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot about that conversation.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Of course, we were talking about that then it's funny
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: that the conversation probably would be exactly the same at
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, we are trapped, I know, terrible times
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: we live in right, Yes, yes, very terrible. Well, I'm
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: very excited to have you on today because Dan Savage,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: for those of you who are not familiar with him,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: has been the premier advice giver on his podcast, which
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: is called Savage Love Cast, which is in its seventeen season.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: So we have somebody who really really has the skill
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: set to answer questions not unlike yours, truly, I'm sorry,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: not like yours truly, definitely unlike yours truly. You know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: when you look at advice in the dictionary, all it
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: says is opinion about what kutter should be done. The
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: only qualification you need to give advice is somebody asked
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: you for it. That's exactly right. And you know what
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: my just vocation for even doing a podcast like this, Dan,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: is that I was giving unsolicited advice to people for
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: so many years that I figure, why not have people
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: actually ask me questions so that it is warranted. Solicited
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: advice is better than unsolicited advice, just like solicited dick
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: picks are better than unsolicited thank you for saying that,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: so I didn't have to now tell me do people
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: assume now? Do people come up to you whenever they
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: see you, recognize you, expecting to asking for advice in
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: real life all the time. Yeah, It's happened in restaurants.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: That's happened in airports. It's happened at urinals where the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: person standing next to me recognizes me. That's my favorite
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: place for a fan interaction. Is it right next to
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: a urinal? Yeah? Yeah, mine too. What's really weird is
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: because not as many people are familiar with my face,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: but people have been listening for a long time, and
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: so it can startle someone to hear my voice come
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: out of a person as opposed to their headphones or earbuds,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and so that, you know, I'll be on the phone
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: with somebody and somebody in line our bucks will turn
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: around because they're shocked to hear me standing behind them talking.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That's nice to them for people to recognize your voice,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah? Yeah, it is nice. I like it.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: It's you know, it's kind of nice to not be
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: recognized on site all the time because I'm not on
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: television a lot, but it's still nice. To know that
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: there are lots of people out there listening to my podcast,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: or after all these years exactly exactly after seventeen years,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were like the one of the original
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: people to have a podcast. Yeah, and I've been doing
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the podcast several cost for seventeen years and writing my
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: dumb sex advice column savage Love that the podcast grew
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: out of for thirty years. Holy sh it. Really Yeah,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: since I have been at this a while. Oh my god,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: So what every week you have to turn something in
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: on what day? What day is your delivery date? Friday?
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: From the craziest part about writing a sex advice column
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: for so long as I am now giving sex advice
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: to the children of people I gave sex advice to
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago before their children were born. So adults
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: who did and exist whose parents I gave sex advice
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: to are now writing for sex advice And it kind
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: of blows my mind. That's funny. So how do you
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: justify giving advice after all this time? Like, how do
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: you keep your information flowing so that you know what's
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: going on in the world, and and and kind of
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: like what what information do you consume, whether it be
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: books or you know media, like, how do you stay
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: fresh so that you are actually giving the most sound advice?
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: You know, to zoom out for a second. And this
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: is me to get a little airy fairy about my
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: format and genre. The the advice column, the original one
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: in print was advice columns really pioneered what then blogs
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and the Internet made standard for writers in an advice column,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you know, going back a hundred years, going back to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a lander's column. For decades that I grew up reading,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: readers wrote back, and the columnists would print letters from
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: people who disagreed with the columnists and engage in a debate.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: That then didn't become kind of standard for journalists and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: writers until the Internet came along. It used to be
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: if you were a writer in a newspaper, there might
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: be a letter to the editor about you, but you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: didn't respond to it. You didn't engage with that critic.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: But in an advice column, you engage with your critics
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: all the time. And so the people I learned most
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: from the people who keep me up to date and
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: current are my readers and my listeners who are always
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: getting in my face about whatever it is I may
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: have said about what they agreed with what they didn't
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: agree with, and there's always been this back and forth.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: You know. When I started Savage Love, I called it
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: a conversation I'm having in a bar with my friends
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: about our sex lives when we're drunk. And originally the
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: column was a joke. You know. It was a gay
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: guy giving straight people sex advice thirty years ago. And
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I was going to treat straight people at the same
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: contempt that straight advice calumnists like A Landers had always
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: treated gay people with. UH. And I was going to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: do it for six months or a year. But then
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: straight people who had never been treated with that particular
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: kind of contempt before I really liked it. I thought
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: it was really funny as opposed to really traumatizing UH,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and started sending me real questions. So it kind of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: accidentally became a real advice column in a real advice podcast.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: And how would you rate yourself in applying your own
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: advice to your own life? Well, you know, more than once, UH,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: my husband has turned to me and quoted me back
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to me when I haven't been living up to my
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: own standards around being honest or using my words, or
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: being direct or being g g G or my most
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I think one of the pieces of vice I'm proudest
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: to fuck first, which is, you know, before you go
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: out to dinner fun, don't wait till you get home
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: from dinner, because you're gonna be too fold to fuck. Originally,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: this is advice I came up with for Valentine's Day
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: because on Debruary fifteenth, I would get all these letters
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: fro people who didn't get funed on Valentine's Day. We
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: were worried about the date of their relationships, and I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: would write them back and say, so, what happened on
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Valentine's Day? And they went out to dinner and they
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: had wine and Coco Van and chocolate mouse and more wine,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and no one wants to get fucked with a gut
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: full of Coco Van and chocolate mouse. Funk first, then
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: go to dinner. And so when I, you know, my
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: husband or my boyfriend's horny and they want to funk,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, let's do it later, they're like,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: fuck first, Who said them? Who said the first? You did?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Let's fun? Now? Well, the first of all, that's great advice.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Everyone should suck first anyway, even whether you're talking about
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: eating or not. I feel like getting fucking out of
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: the way right away with a new potential love interest
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: will save everybody a lot of time because you have
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: to find out what parts are working and what's gonna
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: because some people are into some kinky ship and some
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: people are not into some kinky ship. So it's good
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to find out what is happening in that arena before
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: you even go to dinner, because otherwise that's just a
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: waste of a meal. In my opinion, that's how gay
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: men do it. Yeah, well, maybe I am a gay man.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I I the other night, Joe, my boyfriend, and I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: were ordering room service and I knew. I said we
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: should suck first, because once we eat this, I'm not
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: gonna want to suck. And I we had thirty minutes
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: before room service came, and I was like, let's get
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: this going. And I knew because I was like, we're
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: in a hotel room. It's going to happen at some point,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: so let me get this out of the way. It
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: was more of a formality. I don't make it sound
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: very mantic because it quite frankly, it wasn't. I was
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: just making sure that I would be able to relax
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: after I my cheeseburger, which is really important. Also, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: primarily I give this advice to people about holy days
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of fucking obligation, like a day when you gotta get
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: fucked or you're going to be sad or think something's
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: wrong your wedding day. First, don't wait till after the reception.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Stand at the altar with come writing down your legs.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: That's how you do it. That's good advice too, because
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: who knows what kind of shape you're going to be
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: in at the end of your wedding. You're getting exhausted
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: and ship face probably most often, well not everybody, but
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of people do get shipped faced. And I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: get those letters I didn't you know, we got married
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and we didn't have sex on our wedding day, so sad, Well, yeah,
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: you should have had sex on your wedding day. That
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: morning before the wedding. Katherine, what's your view on being
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: too full to fuck? I totally agree. I mean you can. Actually,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: while you were saying funk first, I was like looking
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: over here at my engineer who I am also married to,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, absolutely, you have to funk before
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: you go to dinner. But to the wedding day. Think
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: my brother and his wife fell asleep counting money on
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: their wedding day and never had sex. That's pretty hot there,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I know that. Great, that's like a good reason the
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: second best thing. Yes, but no, totally agree. First, Yeah,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's a good rule of thumb to
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: live by, especially if you're an adult. If you're a
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: young adult and you're experimenting with sex for the first time,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: don't listen to what I'm saying. But if you're over
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: thirty and you've had sex with a lot of people,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: just I would say, just get it out of the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: way as soon as possible, for more reasons than one.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And then you know, if you funk before you go
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: out and then you catch a group and you don't
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: want to suck again, yeah, hot, there you go, and
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: then that's hot, and then you're over. Yes, then you're
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: over delivering and you don't feel this sense of tension
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: or you know, because oh my god, we have to
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: funk when we got home. You already sucked and so
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: you won't be tense about it. And then if you
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: want to funk when you get home, awesome. Let me
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: ask you another question. Do you feel like since you
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: are such a good advice giver and you're known for that, well,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: it's your career. Do you feel like when you take
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you your personal life into account that it matches and
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: is commensurate to the advice that you dole out like
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: you have imposter syndrome? Absolutely, Advice is easy to give
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and hard to follow. I get in trouble sometimes because
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I'm slow to tell people to break up or get
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: a divorce that I'm happy to get under the hood
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and tinker. And I think you've been with my husband
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: for thirty years as well, and I think that being
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: in such a long, long, long as term relationship, there
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: definitely been times when I thought I should leave, we
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: should get a divorce, and then I didn't, in part
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: because it's such a hassle to break up, to separate everything,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to get a divorce, and so I hesitated. And then
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you know, when we got to the other side of
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the crisis and we figured it out or worked it out,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I was glad that we hadn't. But there's definitely been
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: a few times in my relationship where I was like
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Dan Savage would tell you, dance Savage right now, to
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: get a divorce, and I know, because I sometimes find
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: myself going like, oh wait, I wouldn't agree with this
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: at all, with the way I'm behaving right now, I
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: would advise somebody against that. Oh yeah, in all fairness
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: to my husband, there have been times when I thought
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Dan Savage would definitely tell your husband right now, Dan Savage,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: to get divorce. You are asked too, so and what
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: books do you have you read that you would like
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: to share that have had the most impact on you,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: advice or self help or you know whatever in that
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: arena genre. I really think um Aster Parrel's books Mating
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: in Captivity and State of Affairs, a book about sex
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in a long term relationship, Desire and a long Term Relationship.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Those are the best two books I think anybody can
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: read about sex and relationships. She's a couple's counselor ted talker.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: She podcast to herself. Absolutely genius Aster Parrel. You know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: one of her observations is that two desires to want
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and the paradox of a long term relationship is how
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: do you want what you have which you already have?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: And if you want to try to figure that out?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: If you're an exclusive, committed, monogamous, long term relationship, a
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: star parrel is really the best place to go, you know.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You raise something like I'm coming up. I think we're
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: almost at our one year anniversary, my boyfriend and I
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and and it's interesting because it's like every time you
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: start a relationship, it's like youth. It's like the saying
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: youth is wasted on the young. Right you start a relationship,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you really just don't believe it's going to happen to you,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like that that feeling and those endorphins and all of
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: the stuff that comes with wanting to someone, wanting somebody
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: and wanting them badly. All the time, you just fantasize
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: about fucking fuck dinner. Nobody even wants dinner at that point.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like the first two months where you're like,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: you lose ten pounds because you're so excited about who
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: you're having sex with and having sex with them, and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: then real life starts to settle in, and then you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: gain that weight back, and then you get used to
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: having that person in your life and you acclimate to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: all of those things, and everything everyone tells you becomes true.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't have that ripping, roaring, raging desire
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: anymore because you've become a union with this person, like
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you're a team, and the newness is gone. And it's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: funny that it doesn't matter how old you get. You
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: don't believe that's going to happen to you, and it
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: happens every time, and good advice should be realistic about that.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of people live around thinking there's something
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: wrong with them, something wrong with the relationship, something they
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: should do or say to get back to that, you know, infatuated.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I want to drink all your spit feeling of the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: first few months, and that's never coming back. And you
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: have to figure out what in the long term relationship compensates,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: what's different and also interesting or valuable about that long
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: term relationship, about the sex and the intimacy and the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: long term relationship, and it's gonna be different. But the
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: whole relationship advice industrial complex is selling often delusions and
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: convincing people that you know, if you just buy this
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: book or listen to this show, you can fix it.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: You can adjust all the dials and then you'll be
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: sucking each other like you were sucking each other in
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the first month. And that's just a lie. So Dan,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you really coined the phrase monogamish, right, and you and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: your husband have been open for quite some time. Is
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: that something you feel has increased your attraction level to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: your husband? Oh? Absolutely, and it's also something you know.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Esther Perel said that even if you're not going to
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: fund other people, sometimes it will reignite your desire if
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: your partner, if you see your partner through someone else's eyes, Like,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: go somewhere where somebody might flirt with your partner, and
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: you'll suddenly realize how attractive your partner is again, and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: your partner will also feel affirmed and desirable, and that's important.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: And gay men are really good at this because you know,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: most gay relationships aren't monogamous, and gay men also go
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to places where like men are. It's not that men
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: gay men behave this way because they're gay men. Gay
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: men behave this way because they're men and are just
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: like dogs. And to like go to a gay bar
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: with kind of a sexually heightened a lot of erotic
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: tension and see people who want to funk your husband
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: reminds you that you want to suck your husband too,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and you wanted to suck your husband first, And then
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: you'll go home and suck your husband. I was funny
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you say that. I was having a conversation with my
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: trainer Ben Bruno the other day and he because he's
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: as straight as an arrow, and he was talking about
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: that show The Staircase. Have you watched that, Dan, I
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: haven't yet, but I read the article is based on Okay,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: so the televised version like that they turned into a
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: series with Tony Collette and Colin Firth. There's a scene
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: where he goes to this pornographic store. Pornography store, I'm
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: not I guess magazines, yeah, because it takes place like
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: in the eighties, so he's like looking at a dirty magazine.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: He and this other guy he's he's supposedly a straight,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you know, married man, but he's clear he's sucking men
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: on the side. He goes to this pornography store. There's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: another guy. They make eye contact once, then they meet
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: in a back room and don't even speak. Like one
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: of them is has his back facing the opening of
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: this area and the guy comes in and they just
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: start fucking. And my trainer Ben Bruno goes, I mean
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: when that's so unrealistic. He goes that two men just
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: start fucking. I go think about what you're saying. Men
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: are men, will fuck anything, and if you get two
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: of them together, they're not going to fucking talk. The
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: only reason anyone's talking is there because there's a woman involved, right,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Straight men would do everything gay men do if straight
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: men could, but straight men can't because women won't. And
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: why won't women. It's not that there aren't horny women
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: out there who might be up for casual or even
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: anonymous sex, but slut shaming and sexual violence and the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: risk of pregnancy and disease all followed disproportionately out to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: women's shoulders, which ups the opportunity cost for women of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: being sexually impulsive. Well, those things aren't necessarily a problem
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: when two men are going to get together. And I
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: always like blows my mind when a straight guys like
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you gay men and your bushes and bathhouses so disgusting
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and now I would look at them and say, if
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I told you there was a building full of women
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get fucked right now. Don't know your
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: name or your phone number ever see you again. You're
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: telling me that straight men wouldn't go there, that straight
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: men wouldn't be lined up around the block to get
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: into that building. All the bathhouse a gay bath houses
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: is a whore house staff by volunteers, and there's no
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: parallel in straight land. But if there were, straight guys
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: would go. Yeah. Absolutely, they're jealous. They're so jealous. They're
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: so jealous of gay men's lifestyles because yeah, and then
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's optional for gay men, like we shouldn't say,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: like all gay men go to I don't go to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: bath houses. I have to know somebody's name. I'm very
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: much my lesbian friends call me a lesbian, like I
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: kind of have to know somebody a little bit before
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I couldn't, and then I couldn't. Like when I first
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: came out and as gay as eighteen years old, my
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: friends took me to like those dirty bookstores where people
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: had sex in the back, and I was just like,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: it's dark in there, Like what if one of my
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: uncles comes in here. I don't want to accidentally blow
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: one of my uncles who could be closeted and gay
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: for all. I don't. So I was very squeamish and
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: thank god, thank god, because because I came out at night,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: and so if I'd been like I'd probably be dead.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good point. Okay, there you go. Okay, Well
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: on that note, Catherine, what do we have in store
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: for us today? Oh? So many sex questions. We have perfects,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: perfect We have to put you to good use today. Okay,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: so forgive us in advance. Yeah, people are having a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: lot of sex, people are having not enough sex and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: everything in between. But we'll take a quick break and
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: we'll be back with Dan Savage and Chelsea. Okay, Dan
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: and I are just going to head over to a
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: bath thousand. We'll be right back, and we are back.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That was satisfying. It was I really enjoyed talk and
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed watching. Oh you're welcome, Catherine. I like being observed.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: Our first question comes from a a as a woman.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea, I don't know how to say this, so
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I'm coming straight out with it. My husband and I
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: just webb three months ago and we're not having sex.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It's been about a month and we've had sex one
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: which felt like he was doing it out of pity
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: for me. He says it's because of arguments we've been
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: having and that things will get better. But I have concerns. Firstly,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I'm worried that this will continue for our prolonged period.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: It seems like every couple I know that isn't having
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: sex started their dry spell this way. I'm also worried
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: that he just isn't attracted to me anymore. There have
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: been a couple of times I've noticed him looking at
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: other women lately. I trust him and I don't think
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: he would cheat, but it's hurtful to see when I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: know we're obviously lack in chemistry at the moment. We
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: used to be all over each other, and now he
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: won't even kiss me. It's really hard for me not
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to take it personally, and at this point, I feel
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: like I'm desperately vying for my husband to have sex
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: with me. It makes me feel pathetic. We've talked about
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: it at nauseum, and it seems to make things worse
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and more awkward. My question is how do we get
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: over this hump. I don't want to pressure myself or him,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: but I feel like we just have to do it
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: before things continue on this dry path. Thanks so much
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: for reading. I love your podcast. You give the best advice,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and if there's someone that can help me, I know
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: it's you. Sincerely A Okay, well, Dan, I'm to let
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you take this from the top, since this is in
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: your wheelhouse M D M A. And the weekend of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the cabin might help, you know, I think it's actually
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's giving it that the sex drive up
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: so soon after getting married, and a lot of straight
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: people have it in their heads, consciously or subconsciously that
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: marriage means the end of fun, adventure, possibility, and that
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: can really smother desire. You know, you see straight people
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: doing this thing. We're like, we're gonna have a bachelor
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: party or a bachelor party, and what's being what the
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: implicit statement of a bachelor or bachelor party is after
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: you're married, no more fun. This is your last chance
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: to have fun. And so maybe the husband, you know,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: thinks that because they're married now, the fun has to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: stop or the fund has stopped, and it's you know,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: marriage for some people comes with a lot of dear
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: oticizing baggage. You know, he now looks at you, is
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: not his hot girlfriend that he's tucking, but his wife.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: And so I think maybe in couples counseling you could
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: dig down there. But I gotta say, if at three
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: months you're not fucking and you're having to get into
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: couple's counseling about not fucking. I don't have a lot
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: of hope for your marriage that this isn't a problem
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: that you should be facing three months in. If he
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: has some sort of Madonna horror complex where he could
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: suck his girlfriend but not his wife, that's work that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: he needed to do before he got married, when he
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: was single on his own. Trying to do that work
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: now with you there tapping your foot impatiently waiting for dick,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he's gonna be able to do it. Yeah.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I would also like to say that that may be true,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: like that is a that is a concerning sign. But
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: you did mention that you've been arguing a lot, and
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I know when I'm arguing, I don't want to have
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: sex with the person that i'm arguing with, Like that
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: is not a turn on. And if you're belaboring the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: point about not having sex, that also is now to
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: turn on. So instead of overly overly discussing something like
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: ad nauseum, as you mentioned, I would say to really
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: put a pin in the subject of sex and let
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: things happen in a natural way and give it a minute.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Give it a minute so that you can actually naturally
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: come to each other, you know, after a fun night
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: out or I don't know what you prefer, like if
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you guys are mourning people or night people. Just let
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: some time pass where you're not rehashing the fact that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: you're not having sex, so that there can be a
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: natural coming together. Because if you guys already were all
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: over each other at some point, then that's a pretty
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: good indication that you have that chemistry and you can
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: get back there. But there was also something I mean,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: him checking out other women and you noticing that, Like
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I can understand that you're feeling slightly paranoid, and that's
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: coming across in your letter, and there's an air of
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: desperation in your letter, which is fine because you're being
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: honest and it's important for you to be honest with
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: your feelings. But I would really really implore that you
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: have to take a step back and not make it
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: a mandate, you know, let it. Let let the conversations
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: aren't working in the way that you're hoping they will.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: It's been this amount of time and you guys aren't
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: being sexually active, so what you're doing, your approach isn't
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: working right now. So you should do the opposite, you know,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and take a couple of steps back, like I said,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and wait until there's an opportune moment that makes sense.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: That isn't you like saying, hey, I want to seduce you.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: You know, in this way, it's just like a coming together,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: and there can be physical touching in between that time,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: you know, like hand holding and stuff like that does
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: have an impact on people and their closeness. You know,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: some people aren't touchy feeling and some people aren't, So
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: you know that better than than I would about you
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and your partner. But like, let those things develop and
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: don't put so much pressure on the situation because as
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: soon as you over lead, discuss and argue about a
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: subject like that, it's very hard for somebody who doesn't
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: have a reasonable explanation as to what they're feeling to perform.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: There's clearly something going on with him. I think it's
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: great advice to put a pin in it the argument
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: about sex. I would also encourage you to think about
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: the rest of the ship that you're arguing about right now.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: There's arguments that have been going on prior to the sex.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: One of the ideas I tossed around on my show
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: A lot is the price of admission that there are
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: certain prices of admission that you pay to be in
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: a relationship with someone. Not everything can be resolved. There
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: are certain conflicts you have to agree that you're going
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to step around. And often, you know, when people marry,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: not just the husband having some weird idea that marriage
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: at the end of fun. People marry and then think, well,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: now I have to iron out all we have to
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: like fight out everything that we are in conflict about,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: come to a resolution, solve these problems. And the real
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: trick of any long term relationship is identifying the problems
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: you can't solve and to stop trying to stop and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you know, creating conflict about things that no amount of
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: conflict is going to resolve and step around those things.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think anyone should put up with emotional abuse,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: physical abuse, neglect, to which itself is can be a
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: kind of abuse. But you know, if you're fighting because
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: his socks on the floor, you're fighting because she doesn't
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: load the dishwasher the way you think it should be loaded,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you cannot have those fights. You can just reload the dishwasher.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: You can be the one who picks the laundry up
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: off the floor and then look around and see, you know,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: the things he might be doing or she might be
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: doing that they're putting up with your bullshit. And so
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: much to the conflict I see in LTRs, among my friends,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: among my listeners and callers is people having fights about
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: things they could just go. You know what, it doesn't matter.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: This is a price of admission. I'm willing to pay
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to be in this relationship, and I'm not going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: complain about it anymore or try to run it to
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: ground anymore. You know, my husband is kind of a slab,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and we used to fight about that, and then one
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: day I just started picking up after him and it
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: was like, you know what, this picking up after him
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: is a lot easier than arguing about and picking up
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: after himself. Yeah, and it just remember, like, it's not
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a turn on to fight. I know a lot of
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: people think that they get in fight and makeup. Sex
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: is great, but that's like a temporary thing. Also, if
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: you're in a constant state of arguing, it's unlikely that
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you're gonna want to have sex with each other. So yeah,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: where are those people who mistake conflict for passion exactly.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, so take this advice, put a pit in it,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and if the situation continues in six months, then yeah,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: you do have an issue, and you do need to
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: go to counseling. But I would say right now to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: take the pressure off yourself and take the pressure off
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: of him, and try to and just enjoy each other
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: right now, and hopefully naturally this thing your sexual life
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: will come back. Can I give one more piece of advice.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: We don't know how long they were dating before they
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: got married, so it may just be a coincidence that
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: they got married and then it fell apart. Maybe it
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was starting to fall apart sexually. When you think about
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the sex you had early in a relationship, it was risky,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: like your adrenaline was pumping. You're getting naked with somebody
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: that you barely knew. They could be an ax murderer,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you could be crazy, like it felt. Sex at the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: start is risky and dangerous, and risk is arousing sex,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: and an LTR the risk goes away, and so sometimes
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: people mistake the LTR and they think something's missing in
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the partnership, and no, you're the same people you were.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: It's just like there's no danger anymore, and what you
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: miss is the danger. And so you know, at the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: beginning of a new sexual relationship, you're the adventure. There on,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: they're the adventure you're on when you're together ten years
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: and you want to feel that again, that kind of risk, danger, adrenaline,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: those adventurous feelings. You've got to go on an adventure together.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: You've got an engineer risk into your sexual relationship that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of your sexual relationship was just present,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: without any effort, without any intentionality, and so like, you've
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: been together ten years and it's not exciting now like
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: it was at the beginning. Of course, it's not Go
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: have sex in public, Go have sex in a sex club,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Get out of your bedroom, get off the bed. But
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: a different time, go to a bathhouse, get a cabin
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: in the woods for the weekend and go funk and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: then take some M d m A and you'll remember
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: why you loved each other. You should read Love Drugs
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: by Brian Er, which is the science behind go to
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the cabin for the weekend with your LTR partner into
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: some m d m A. What is LTR stand for?
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Forgive me for asking Dan? But long term relationship? Okay?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Good to know. I was like, is that latent? I'm like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: what trying to hear out initials there. We can't prescribe
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: molly to people or m d m A because we're
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: not medical practitioners, but you certainly are free to do
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: whatever drugs you think you want to do. So you
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: heard that here first, and keep us keep us posted, please,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: we want to know what happens. Yes, thanks a well.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Our next question comes from a Saila. She's here on
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the phone. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty five
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: year old Mexican immigrant mother of two girls, five and two.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: My five year old is at that age where she's
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: super curious and inquisitive. She's wise beyond her years, incredibly smart,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: and is amazing and expressing her feelings. I'm proud of
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the girl i'm raising, given how different my parenting is
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: from the parenting I received in my childhood. I've noticed
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: lately that she's exploring her body. I catch her sitting
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: in awkward positions where I can tell she's rubbing up
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: against something, and although I know she isn't doing anything wrong,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I know it's natural and immediate and irrational. Anger comes
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: over me and I've yelled at her over something seemingly
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: harmless to her. I do not want to confuse her,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: and I definitely don't want to shame her. I was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: shamed as a child and teenager and even as a
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: woman for being sexual, and I don't want to do
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that to her. But I don't know why I react
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: this way. I've looked up scientific articles I'm a public
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: health graduate student to find out whether this is healthy
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: child behavior, and I think it is. But there's not
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: much literature out there that I can find on how
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: to talk to young children about their sexuality anyhow. I
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: wish I could just talk about this with other women,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: but even that feels taboo. How can I overcome this
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: reaction so I can be cool and collected for my
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: child when she needs me. If I can't deal with
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: this now, what will I be like when she's older
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: and inevitably has a sex life. Hi? Hi, Hi, how
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: are you? I'm good. I'm very much enjoying this. Thank
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: you for having me. I get this question, and some
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: other people they're they're small child begins, you know, touching themselves,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and they don't want to sec shame the child. They
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: don't want to give the child hang ups. But it's
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: important for your kid not to wind up in first
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: grade touching themselves in a way where they will be
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: shamed or picked on or stigmatized. So the balance you
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: have to strike is communicating to your kid that there's
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: a time and a place for this, and this is
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: a private kind of touch, and you're not to touch
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: yourself this way in front of your mom, in front
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: of a television, in front of classmates. This is a
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: private time thing. And I don't think that's shaming. It's correcting,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: and it's setting your kid up to avoid the potential
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: negative fallout of not hearing that as a kid, not
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: knowing when and where this kind of pleasurable self touch
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: is appropriate. And I don't think that's shaming that you
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: feel this anger rise up in you. That's something to
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: maybe unpacked with a therapist, because that is kind of
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: looking at your child and fearing that your child is
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a sexual person. And one of the things that you
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: know if you're the parent of of kids, and I'm
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: a parent, one of the things you realize pretty quickly
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: is that kids aren't sexually newter or neutral, that kids
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: are already have a kind of I'm not saying kids
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: should be sexually active. I'm not saying it's right for
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: anybody be attracted to a child. But kids have agency
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and some sort of sexual self awareness even at age
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: five um, and a sense of what their bodies will
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: be capable of later in life as adults, a dawning
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: awareness of it. And it's your job as the parent
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: to channel that to the appropriate time and place so
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: your kid isn't attacked, scolded, shamed by peers, by authority
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: figures they may encounter outside the home. You want to
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: have that in its right channel and have your kid's
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: head screwed on straight about that before they're out there
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: in the world moving independently of you. Yeah, I mean,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: or jerking off on monkey bars, which is what I
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: was doing growing up. Actually, no, there weren't monkey board bars.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: It was a swing set with the metal poles in
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: between the swings, and I would ride those to give
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: myself the feeling over my clothes. And I would ride
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: those bars and then the recess bell would ring and
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I would be climaxing. So I couldn't go back into
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: school because I was busy, And the teacher came out
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and basically told me that I had to stop rubbing
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: my vagina against the metal posts during recess, otherwise I
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be allowed to go to recess anymore. But so
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: then I just found different appliances to put under my desk.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I jerked off so much in school between
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: third and fourth grade with whatever appliance I used, pencils, anything,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: And I would never want to touch my vagina directly
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: because that, to me was disgusting. But finding any other
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: things to eroticize myself it was, you know, open game.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Even at my parents dinner table, I would take a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: ladle and I would rub it in between my legs
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: and I would jerk off while our family was having dinner,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: and nobody said anything to until my brother said, can
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: someone please tell her to stop? She does it all
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the time. And that was when I first got caught
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: out and I was shamed, and I didn't masturbate again
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: until probably I was in my late thirties because I
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: thought it was so embarrassing. So shame, yes, shame could
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: carry you a long way, go stays with you a
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: long time. But a Sailah, the reason why you're having
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: the reaction you're having is because your parents. You were
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: shamed or whoever shamed you for doing that when you
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: were younger. As why, it's pretty much that simple. We
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: perpetuate those things. Whatever you were shamed about, you feel
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: shame about, and then seeing your daughter, that's coming out
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: of wanting to protect her, you know, and everything that
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Dan said is perfectly accurate. You want to make sure
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that she doesn't have shame around touching herself, but that
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: she knows it's something that she has to do in
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: the privacy of her own bedroom, and that she has
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: to do by herself and not with anyone else around,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: certainly not any adults or other children around. So it's
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: totally fucking normal for your kid to touch themselves. Everybody
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: deals with this, so you're not alone. And I would
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: also say, you know, please start talking to other mothers
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: about this, because it's not as taboo as you think.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: That's in your head and that's the way that you
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: were raised. It really isn't taboo. Anybody who has a
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: little girl or a little boy has experienced them fiddling
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: around with their private parts. I would just want to
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: add that you brought up the fact that you sometimes
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: feel an anger rise up in you, and I think
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: there's two ways to see that anger. And you know
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: anger that your your daughter is doing this thing that's sexual.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: But if you just shift your perspective a little bit,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I think that can be fear for your daughter, and
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: that fear is a very motivating thing for parents. You
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: want to protect your kids and a kid you want
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: to You know, sex is dangerous, sex is risky, Sex
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: is scary. Sex is bigger and stronger than all of us.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Sex created us. And to see your kid already in
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the grip or all of sex is to see your
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: kid in danger. And so you might help you to
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: understand your emotions at that moment not as anger, but
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: as concern and fear and not unreasonable concern and fear
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: for your kids safety as a parent, to channel you know,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: this kind of touch which is appropriate for her age
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: right now, in a way where it's not a danger
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: to her, And to really understand that some of your
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: fear anger is anticipating what sex is going to mean
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: for your kid, for your family, for the risks she's
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: going to run when she is an adult, when she
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: is an older teenager and becomes sexually active. So don't
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: fault yourself for that anger, Just like, shift your perspective
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: and see that anger is legitimate, motivating concern for your kid.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you saying that so much because I think
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: you hit the nail right on the head. I think
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: fear is definitely the you know, the back, you know,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: like in the background here, and I think they're selves.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: So a lot of cultural stuff that we're caring that,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: you know in my family. Still even talking about it
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: later with my grandma, she was like, do not say
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: it's private, just discourage it period, Like, don't do it
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: at all, it could be bad for her. And I
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, like we need to change the way
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that we talk about is we need to talk about
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: it first of all. And that's the reason why I
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: even submitted my question. Just even talking about it. It's
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: important to me because I look around and I'm like,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: who do I talk about this, you know with, And
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I want to change the conversation. I know it's normal,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: and I've read about it, and I see her and
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I know she's doing nothing wrong, and I remember what
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I was being shamed, and I don't do not want
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: to do that to her. So it's irrational. I recognize
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that on my part that it's completely irrational, but it
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: just you know, boils in me and comes out. So
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: I think it is the fear and the thinking that
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: she might be in danger and having heard growing up
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: like conflicting advice about sex. Don't do it, but or
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do it, but you know, So it's it's
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: it was very confusing and it was very hard. Very
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: late into my life. Did I feel like I came
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: into myself feeling confident about me being a sexual being.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: So I don't want that for her, definitely. But but
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you were. You were shamed, and that was traumatizing for
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: you and took your time to overcome. You're not shaming
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: your daughter. You're going to direct your daughter. You are
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: going to parent your kid and help her channel these
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: things in appropriate ways while affirming that she's allowed to
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: do these things, that these are pleasurable things, and so
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: you're not shaming. Some parents get into their head that
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: any correction and direction is shaming, and it's not. It's
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: a very come from a very different place. Thank you.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Thank you so much. And you, you know,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: like any mothers that you have a close relationship with
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: that school, or any mothers that aren't at school with
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: your children and just friends of yours that are also mothers.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I would urge you to open up that conversation because
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: you'd probably be doing a lot of people that favor,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: because you're not the only one that feels like it's
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: not being talked about enough, and your intention of just
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: wanting to talk about it in a responsible way and
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: not shaming your daughter is awesome. So you know, don't
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: be shy about that. You know, that is a conversation
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: worth having with people, getting different people's perspectives on how
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: they handle the situation. You know, making sure your daughter
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: understands it's okay, it's just a private thing. Take the
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: butt out of it. You can do that. You need
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to be in your room. You know, it's a private situation.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: It's a private thing. You don't have to make it
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the way. You know. You want to stop the cycle
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of what happened to you. You know, that's all everyone's
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: goal should be to try not to recreate the trauma
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: that had been impressed upon you. And you're already doing
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: that by being this thoughtful about it. Thank you, You're
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: absolutely right. Thank you for having me sure, Thanks Selah.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: How cool to have a mom like that who's so
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: forward thinking and like understands what her own behavior the
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: consequences that gonna have for her child, and is working
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: to take strengths to remedy that. If somebody just had
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: told me in my family like what I was doing
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: like I had, I would be hiding behind the sofa
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: and I would be rubbing. I always did it, lying
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: on my stomach, rubbing my pants underneath over my pants,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: but I would like have an ottoman covering the side
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: of me. Like I thought I was being secretive. My
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: whole family knew that I was masturbating all the time,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: and no one said a fucking word to me, like
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I wish somebody would have just said, hey, that's something
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: you want to really keep to yourself. You know, the
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: time and the place, and the family roommate the place
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and differently, and the dining room table also was not
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: the place so right, But that's our family dysfunction junction.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: We are going to take a quick break so you
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: can hear and add and then we'll be right back. Well,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: our next call is from Stephen. Stephen says, dear Chelsea.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: I said I'd give celibacy a go when I was
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: twenty two for four years to prove a point, why
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: what point? I did not fit into the gay lifestyle whatsoever,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: and struggled to fit in with that community based on
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: my relationship and marriage goals. Unfortunately, that started a shift
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: in my life that continued for more than the original
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: four years as planned, and as each As each year
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: has gone by, I've become more and more afraid to
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: get back on the horse, so to speak. Now it's
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: been twelve years. Oh my gosh. I've had the odd
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: hook up here and there every year or so, enough
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: that I can count on two hands. But I'm petrified
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: of men and have no clue how to date or
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: what a normal relationship is or normal interactions with men.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: The pandemic is also of no help. I've moved in
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: with my godmother, which has made my sexless life even
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: less sexy. Given that you're someone who spent quite a
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: few years your legs in the air, I'm very jealous. Really,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: do you have any advice for me and my single
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: forever which may also be okay? Stephen, and he is
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: here with us? Oh good, Stephen, Let's see you. Where
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: are you, Stephen? How are you? By Stephen? We have
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: our special guest Dan Savage is here today. Oh wow,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: that is special. Yeah, he's a gay man, so you're
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: in luck. I'm well aware who he is. I've had
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: my legs and there a few times myself. Well, thanks
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: for having me, and nice to meet you all. It's
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: nice to meet you too. Okay, So it's been a while,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: huh it has and uh and yeah, twelve to fourteen years.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I'm still trying to figure out the math. It's between
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that somewhere. So how old were you when you took
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: your four year break when you decided to opt out?
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: I was twenty. It's often the case that get you
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: know our straight peers. My straight brothers were dating when
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: they were thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years old in high school,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and when you're gay, you often don't start dating until
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: later in life. You don't come out, And so when
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: we're twenty, we can feel like thirteen. And like I
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: said to the previous car, sex is scary, and I
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: can see you being afraid of sex, afraid of men
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: at twenty and not having the same tools to handle
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: dating and secks that even a woman of the same
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: age who was into men might have. So I don't
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: want to say you did something wrong by like pumping
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: the brakes there. So I think setting an arbitrary four
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: year I'm not going to date or have sex with
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: anybody may have been a bit much, um, and you
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: denied yourself the kind of furtive exploring sexual experiences that
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: could have been formative and helped you. But it's not
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: too late to start having those, right. Well, I, like
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: you said, I was young, and I thought I had
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: something to prove. And I thought, because that's a you know,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: in general, life is over sexualized, and especially in the
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: ay world, that's sex sex sex, So I thought, I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: it's holier than thou and could prove this four year
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: look at me thing, And that one sided with like
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of trauma, so I was kind of hiding
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: that and this would be an easy way to not
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: have to indulge in sex to prove this for your thing.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: And then it just kept going on and on, and
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: as the years go on, it just seems less and
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: less attainable. Stephen, Can I ask you a co question
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: you But you did have sex before you took this
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: little hiatus, right, I did just big hiatus, yeah, from
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: the ages of eighteen too. And did you have a
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: lot of sex in those years, not a lot. I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: had a health scare when I was one that medical
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: industry did treat me very well, and that caused a
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: lot of trauma. And it's already a hypochondriact, so it
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: was just easy to just shut everything down from there.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: So you know that stereotype, I should own it. Like
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: earlier I was joking about, you know, straight men would
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: do everything gay men do with straight men? Could not
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: all gay men do all those things we associate with
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: gamel communities, right, some of And someone says the gay
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: world is all sex sex sex, Well, that's the corner
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: of the gay world that gets a lot of press
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: and a lot of jokes, but it also gets a
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: lot of attention. If that's all you're seeing, that's possible
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: for you in gayland. I would say that's the only
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: place maybe you're looking, and you can turn your face
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: away from that. Some people are like, but if I
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: put I want a date or I want i'm anogonmous
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: relationship on my Grinder profile or whatever, I don't get
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: as many responses. Well, you don't get responses from guys
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: who wouldn't want to date you. You don't get responses
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: from guys who were only interested in sex, and you
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: aren't interested in those guys, so scaring away those guys
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: is actually good. And more responses on Grinder with a
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: faceless picture, So that says enough about Grinder. Yeah, well yeah,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: but listen, Grinder is not the only spot there's I mean,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I was just with my gay friend. I wish i'd
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: know in the spot that he uses. What's the new
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: one that everyone's using? Scruffyes, there's there's bunch, there's so many.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's myriad gay sites for you to be on,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: and you should use your picture. You should actually put
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: it all out there so that you are getting honest
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: feedback and you're not tricking anybody, or that you know,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: you're setting yourself up for failure so that they come
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: and see you on a date and realize they were
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: had a different expectations. But regardless of all of that,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: like you did this, it sounds now out of it
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: was born out of a traumatizing event that you had,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: So you're letting that event kind of dictate the rest
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: of your life. And now it's panic mode, yes, and
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: you can't let and for that reason alone, you have
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: to get out there if you put your actual face
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: out there, which I think is smart. Put your actual
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: not trauma. You don't want to make somebody feel like, Okay,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I can't date this guy. Sith enough to take on
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: all of their emotional burdens, but be honest about your
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: lack of experience. I often hear from gay men who
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: are like, I'm really in experience, and I'm afraid none
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: of these guys are going to want to date me
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: because I'm so inexperienced. There are other inexperienced gay guys
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: out there who may have taken a hiatus from dating,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: or may just not have ever jumped in just the
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: way you never jumped in or you jumped out, who
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: are looking at your profile doing well. He's an attractive guy,
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: he's got great hair, like he wouldn't be interesting because
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: time so inexperienced. Lead with your inexperience. I'm nervous and
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I'm inexperienced, and you know I didn't. My twenties weren't
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: like most gay men's twenties. And you think that's gonna
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: turn some gay men off, Okay, it might good. You
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: don't want to be with those gay guys. That's going
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: to attract other gay guys. You have to filter those
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: gay guys because you don't want to wind up with
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: somebody who's hoping to take advantage of your inexperience. Right,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: But there are gay guys out there who are similarly
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: inexperience exactly, and you guys who will feel safe opening
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: up to you about that because you opened up to
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: them first, right, Because it all kind of boils down
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: to intimacy factor in general. If I if I've never
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: dated or had a relationship, another question is do I
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: just start having the sex part. I can't imagine like
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: dating someone for the first time and having this sex
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: thing in the back of my head. So if I
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: should just like go out and just get it done
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: and then look for dating from there. There's always when
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: you talk about millions and millions of people, there's gonna
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: be hundreds of thousands of exceptions. Most game and I
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: know who are in relationships had a one night stand
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: or hook up and then they just clicked and wanted
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: to hook up with that person again, and then a
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: relationship grew. But there are certainly gay men out there
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: who were, like, I want to date. I'm a demisexual.
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: There's a term for everything these days, I want to
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: get to know somebody first and then maybe move on
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: to sex, and then you might make an emotional investment
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: in somebody in the sex doesn't work and you have
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: to end it and like move on to the next
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: emotional investment and then see if the sex works. But
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: it's worth it. I think it's worth it for you
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: to be honest. Listen, you don't want to traumatize yourself again, right,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's worth for you to be honest on
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: your pages. Get on all those pages and say I'm
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: looking to have make a connection with somebody. I'm not
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: looking to go In this case, it would be not funk.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: First Dan, I would say, you know, I'm looking to
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: make a connection with someone. I'm looking to take it slow.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: I understand that that's not why everybody's here, but that's
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: what I'm looking for and I would respect that in return,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: or you know, somebody to be in the same position
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: as I am, because like Dan said, you're gonna find
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: like minded people that also have little experience with sex
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: or don't have much recent experience with sex, and take
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: it slow so that you can have a nice experience
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: for your first time re entering the scene and entering
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: someone or getting entered. I don't know what your bag is.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: You probably don't even know if you're a top our
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: bottom that says it's been so long, But whatever it is,
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: that's regard, you know. Regardless of that, you just respect
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: yourself and taking the time and being honest and upfront
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: with everyone so that there is no demand or expectation
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: from them, and that they know where you're coming from,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: and that you laid it all out there, and then
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: something will naturally develop with one of these people. You
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: will be attracted to one of these people, and they
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: will eventually one of these people will be attracted to you.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not gonna happen like lightning, maybe right
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: out of the gate, but it's going to happen. And
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: you owe it to yourself to put yourself back out
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: there because you don't want to let this experience that
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: you had so many years ago to find you. Right. Yeah,
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: that's true. And Stephen, are you in any kind of
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: therapy right now? Um? Not at the moment, but I was,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: and that's something that I should get into again. I
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: had It's called E M d R, which is for
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: anyone who has trauma in their past or PTSD it
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: it was extremely beneficial, So that is something I should
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: obviously do again. You say you live with your godmother. Yes,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I've had to downsize my life a little bit, that's fine.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Is your godmother supportive? Are you able to be out? Oh? Yeah,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: very much so. She would be thrilled, same with my
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: real mother, and everyone would be Everyone in my life
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: would be absolutely thrilled to see me not alone. I'm
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: glad you have that kind of support. I think that's
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: really important. What you need to what you need to
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: disinhibit about, is you think no one would want to
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: date me for this reason my experience. You know, I
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: haven't been a relationship before. There are people out there
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: who will want to date you for exactly that reason,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: or who won't care. We want to date you for
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: other reasons, and those won't seem relevant. To stop disqualifying yourself,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: which is what you're doing right now. No one I
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: want to date me. I'm not gonna put myself out there.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: I'm so inexperience. You're disqualifying yourself. Don't put yourself out there.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: To be really honest, and people will come along. We
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: are interested in you and and sometimes, you know, paradoxically
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: for exactly the reason you thought no one would want
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: to date someone else who's equally inexperience is to be Okay,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: we share this, and I don't have to be stressed
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: out about it. I don't have to worry about when
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell him I have no experience because because
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: he just told me he has none, And we can
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: just be really honest with each other about that and
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: then move on to see if we're compatible in all
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: the other ways that matter. Right, Well, Stephen, let us
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: know how it goes. Yeah, let's keep in touch with us, Okay, Stephen,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: and let us know, like when you start getting out
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: there and you know, well, yeah, get those legs up.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: I'll let you know when more than just life is
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: fucking me. Okay, right, thanks Steven, Thank you, Steven, Bye bye,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: okay bye. Well, now we know that Steven's the bottom,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: I think, which is a fine thing to be. Okay,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: So what do we have on deck? Catherine? All right,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: So our next email comes from b. B is a
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: year old female and her boyfriend is twenty year old male.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: She says, Dear Chelsea, I've been dating my boyfriend for
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: about five months now, and he really is the best
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: guy I've ever been with in regards to the way
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: he treats me and the things we both enjoy doing together.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: The problem is that my ex boyfriend from a few
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: years ago gave me genital herpes without my informed consent,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: which really made me depressed for years. My current boyfriend
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: isn't educated enough on it and it's freaked out by it.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: We've only had penetrative sex less than a handful of times,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and each time has been pretty awkward because he can't
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: stay hard or finish because he's in his head. He
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: always makes sure I finish, but I missed the connection
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: that's formed when you have sex with someone you love,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: and it just makes me feel like shit, even though
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: he says he loves me. How do I bring this
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: up to him without it sounding like I'm coercing him
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: and having sex with me? B How long did she say?
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: They were together? Five months? Five months and they've only
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: had sex a handful of times? Well, okay, First of all,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: one in three people have herpes. It's very very common,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: and you can only spread herpes when you have an outbreak,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: which you'll know that you have. You know, and they're sure.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: There are times where people don't know they're having an outbreak,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: but as a woman, it's pretty obvious when you're having
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: an outbreak and just like a man their penis, it
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: shows up on their penis. There's like a bump and
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: a redness. So I've dated a guy who has had herpes,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: and as long as you're forthcoming about it, if the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: person can't get past it, then like, I don't know
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: what to tell you, Like they have to get past it.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I got past it. It was not an issue for me.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I was like, thanks for telling me. You know, I
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: get it, and that's all you can do is give
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: him your honesty. So I don't know what to say
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: to that. I mean, I don't know how you can
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: coerce him into staying horror are feeling more attractive if
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: he if he's paranoid about catching herpes, other than giving
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: him the education and and make and you know, looking
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: it up for him and reading to him exactly when
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: they are. The times are that he can catch that
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: from you. Because you can easily be in a relationship
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: with somebody who has herpes and not catch it from them.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: You can be in a relationship with someone has herpes
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: and not know it, because most people who have herpes
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: aren't even aware that they have herpies. And unlike people
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: who have herpes and don't know it, I would say
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: to the caller, you can take steps to protect your partner.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: So you can take valocyclovia, which is an antiretroviral medication
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: which can make you less infectious and make outbreaks less common.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Is that valtras? I think so? Yeah, I think so.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: That's what's its full name. And so you know, if
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I was talking to your boyfriend, what I would tell almost, Okay,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: worst case scenario, you can tract herpes. You're not going
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: to die. Most people who have herpees have one outbreak
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: and then never as beer an outbreak, sometimes never again
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: another outbreak, and your odds of getting herpies if you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: guys are taking simple precautions, are very low. And so
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: I would say to the caller's boyfriend, like, you have
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: to decide is the risk of herpes worth being with
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: this person? And if you're just so paranoid that you
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: can't risk that, have the decency to break up with
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: this person rather than every time you have sex with
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: this person making them feel terrible which is what he's
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: doing to the caller. And caller you have to ask
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: yourself how long you're going to put up with that? Yeah,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's really not a big deal. It's it's
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: not a big deal in my opinion. I dated guys
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: who are HIV positive back when contracting h of E
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: meant you were going to die in eighteen months or
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: two years. And I didn't make them feel like they
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: were nuclear waste or toxic. And I wouldn't have dated
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: them and they wouldn't have put up with me as
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: a boyfriend had I made them feel that way. I
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: had to relax and accept what the risk I was
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: running being in that relationship. And that's what your boyfriend
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: has to accept the risk and relax and be with
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: you or fuck off, and there's no middle ground. I
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, I agree, I agree? Or fuck off. Yeah,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that's got this woman's boyfriend makes me mad, and that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: this woman thinks that it's something that she needs to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: fix when he's the one with the with the problem,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: when he's the one who has some work to do here.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: You know, women are always the ones who are like
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: convinced they have to nurture and tinker and if they
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: just like say the right thing, do the right thing,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: they can fix the shitty guy. And he's kind of
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: being a shitty guy with his dick right now, and
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: like he needs to get past it. And maybe just
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: sometimes you only learn about something like herpes after you
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: date somebody with herpes, and that's what gets you past it.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: And so just five months in that you might need
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: to educate him. Okay, we will allow for that. But
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: if he can't be educated or refuses to be educated,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: we can't calm down, can't relax, can't love you show
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: him the door. Amen. Wow, well that was easy. Our
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: last que sin comes from Brad, he says, Dear Chelsea,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: my name is Brad and I'm thirty five years old,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: happily married to my husband of five years, together for
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: thirteen years. My sister lives in Texas with her three sons,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: along with the rest of my family there eleven eight
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: and six. My husband and I try to get out
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: and see them at least once a year, or sometimes more.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: On our most recent trip, we quickly realized they had
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: developed a new habit of calling each other gay. We've
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: never hid from them the fact that we're married, love
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: each other sleep in the same bed. However, we've never
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: been a part of any serious conversation with them about
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: what it means to be gay. So my first thought was, okay, ship,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: they heard someone say gay in a derogatory way and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: are now using it like we all did back in
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: the nineties. I think I know how to go about
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: that conversation. Then I realized that they were actually using
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: the term quote correctly, meaning you are acting gay, which
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: broke broke my heart. My husband and I were so
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: shocked and had no idea what to say to them.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: My relationship with my sister is on a fragile side.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: We got into a major fight after I yelled at
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: her kids point taken. It's not my place, but now
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I find myself in this situation. Her boys did this
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: on several occasions in front of her, my mom, and
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: my dad. No one said anything, so I started saying, guys,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: please stop saying that. You know what upsets me, and
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I've told you this before. I thought maybe that would
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: trigger a reaction from my sister or mom or dad
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: for that matter, but still no one said anything, So
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: of course the boys completely ignored me. My dad their
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: grandpa is also gay. They have another gay uncle on
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: their dad's side, So why has no one had this
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: conversation with them? How do I bring this up with
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: my family in a non confrontational way. I have no
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: idea how to bring it up without making my sister mad. Sincerely,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Brad and Alex. Suck your sister, Dan, Why don't you
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: take this one. I already did fuck your sister, make
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: er mad. Have a confrontation, screaming y'all, blow the funk
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: up that you're prioritizing your sister's feelings. Correct your kids
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: when they insult you in front of your sister, defend yourself,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: defend your husband, defend your dad, and talk to them,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: and don't be inhibited by your sister's homophobic bullshit. And
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: you know it takes a village to raise decent kids.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: And if a kid says something in your family, says
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: something homophobic in front of you, says something racist in
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: front of you, says something misogynistic in front of you,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: speak the fuck up. Don't defer to the dumbest bigot
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: in the room. When this instance happens to be your
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: own sister. M hmm, yeah, she probably thinks the behaviors innocuous,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: but like, where has she been for the last five years?
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Like that behavior should be nipped the bud The minute
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: a child is saying anything like that should be nipped
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: to the bud, especially if you have family members that
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: are gay, Like it's so disrespectful to have to be
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: there and hear that. But I would lay it out,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't. I mean, I don't think there's
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of results that come from a major blowout
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: all the time. So I would lay it out in
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: an email and just say just so you know, like
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: this has been my life experience and how deeply offensive
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: it is to not only hair your children talk like
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: that when you have gay family members, but to also
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: not say anything to them and leave me to correct them.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: What an onus that is? How can you do that?
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: You yelled at me for trying to parent them once,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: yet you want to be absolved of any parenting. How
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: do you think it makes me feel to come over
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and have little children making fun of a lifestyle, like
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: they're not going to grow up in this world and
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: get away with that behavior. So there's a lot of
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: points you can make in that email, but I think
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: it should just come from a place of hurt and
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: asking her like, where's the line? When are you going
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: to say something to them? It's been established that that's
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: an inappropriate use of language. Calling somebody gay or telling
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: somebody that they're acting gay is not cool anymore. And
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: your fear is the uncle like worst case scenario is
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: that you won't get to see your nephews or your
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: sister for a while. If you stand up for yourself.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Is that the worst case scenario here that you don't
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: have to hang out with your homopublic sister and her
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: now homophobic children who will one day hopefully apologize to you.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: That is not a bad outcome if they can't treat
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: you with kindness, decency, and respect you and your husband.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: So stick up for yourself and don't be inhibited by
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: the fear of the worst case scenario coming to pass
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: that you don't have to do. You don't have to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: see these people for a while. How would you have
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: that conversation with the kids If he is going to
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: approach the subject with his nephews easily, I mean sitting
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: down with them and explaining, hey, I'm a gay man.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Your grandfather is a gay man. It's very disrespectful to
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: cure you talking about that in terms that a you
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: don't even really understand yet. These are little children, So
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the conversation with the child would be easier than with
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: the adult because she's going to be defensive about her parenting,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: and she might think that you can't tell kids they
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: shouldn't use gay in that way, because then you're gonna
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: have to have a conversation about gay sex. And if
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: a kid is using gay in that way, well then
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: you might have to have a conversation about that acknowledges
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: the existence of gay sex, just as you probably had
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: a conversation with those same kids. Acknowledging the assistance of
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: straight sucks because the kid they have already asked their
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: parents where babies come from, and if they're old enough
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: to be told that, they're old enough to know that
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: gay people have sex for all the same reasons straight
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: people do, except once or twice when straight people try
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: to get pregnant. You know, sex is mostly for pleasure,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: and some people are sexually attracted to members of their
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: same sex for the same reasons some people are attracted
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: to members of the opposite sex. And you can definitely
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: have that conversation with a child who's using gay as
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: an insult. I found my nieces and nephews at that
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: age they are such parrots and they're just parroting the
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: behavior that they see. When my nieces or nephews have
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: said something that to me is troubling, that feels borderline,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: and I have expressed to them, like, you know what,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: it's actually it's actually better to do things this way.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: It's actually better to be more accepting. It's it's cooler
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: to be this way. They flip flop real fast, and
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: they just because they're hearing a different perspective and suddenly
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh wait, it's cool to be friends with
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: that person. Oh wait, it's better to not use that
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: type of language. I would never do that. They flip up.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: We're all real fast. So well, Brad and Alex's best
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: of luck and let us know how that conversation it goes. Yeah,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: good luck with that. Yeah, we'll take a quick break
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: and be right back. Okay, Dan and I just are
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: taking a quick bottom break and top break, and I'm
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: the bottom and he's the top, and now we're back
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: and now we're a sandwich. Excellent. Well, Dan, I hear
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: you have some advice you'd like to get from Chelsea. Oh,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna say advice you'd like to give
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: to Chelsea. Yeah, And usually people will come on and
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: ask for advice for themselves from Chelsea. But your producer
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: let me know that there are a few questions sometimes
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: that have you stumped, and you wanted to bring one
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: of your stumpers on to ask Chelsea about that question.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: The question today comes from experienced. She says, Hi Dan,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a forty one year old bisexual female living in
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: the rural Pacific Northwest. I'm somewhat recently divorced and getting
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: back into the dating scene. I keep running into this
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: problem over and over. Where I match with someone, things
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: are going fantastic, conversations flowing, and inevitably the talk turns
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: to sexual compatibility. I'm an experienced woman, and I'm proud
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: of all the fun I've had in my life. I've
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: played safe and feel very fulfilled. If someone asked me
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: what's my number and I had to slap a number
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: on it, I'd say eighties or nineties, maybe more. And
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: every time I'm talking or texting or on a date
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: with someone, one of three things happens. Either they drop
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: off the face of the planet. And that's fine. I'm
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: not everybody's cup of tea two. I'm no longer seen
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: as someone who is datable, just fuckable. Talk of any
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: dating or romance just completely drops off. But more often
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: than not, this usually leads to conversations with gentlemen of
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: their own fantasies, their own desires. But every time they
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: just drop off the phase of the planet. They're no
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: longer interested in dating me. They ghost me. It's just
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: done and gone. Anyway, Help me, Dan, I'm trying to
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: figure out how I can be seen as someone who's
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: both datable, worthy of love and romance, but also someone
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: who is really great and bad with gobs of experience
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: that I have to bring to the table. Help How
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: can she be seen a worthy of love and romance
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: as well as scorching hot sex while still being honest?
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: So I thought this would be a fun one to
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: share with Chelsea, because sex with more than one person.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for putting it that way, putting it so mildly.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: First of all, you don't need to frontload all of
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: that information into meeting somebody on the first on the
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: first date, like that's not necessary for them to know,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: just like it's not necessary for you to divulge your
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: entire childhood to somebody that you meet for the first time.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: And it's not lying. It's first of all, developing a
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: connection with somebody and developing a trust. So if you
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: want to date somebody, you have to get to know
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: that person and they have to get to know you.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: And getting to know somebody means not frontloading every single
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: thing that's ever happened to you on the first date.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: It's just unnecessary. You know, there's no intrigue there, there's
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: no getting to know somebody, so you don't have to
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: come out with all of that. You just have to
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: go on a date, like you're not auditioning for a
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: job and putting out this kind of resume, Like that's
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: not an obligation. You're not lying. You're getting to know someone,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: and in time, when you feel trusting and trusted, you
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: can reveal more about your personal history and your sexual history,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: and when the time is appropriate. But that time is
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: definitely not in the first few dates with somebody. You're
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: dealing with men who are fragile, and that is a generalization,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: but it's applicable to a lot of men. Men are
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: very fragile, and while the right person will be okay
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: with that information, there's no reason to give that that
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: information away on the first date. Let somebody grow to
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: understand you and respect you and have feelings for you,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: and then you can give out the that information if
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: it's completely necessary for you to do that. If you
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: feel like you have to give out that information, great,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: But there's no rule saying that you have to tell
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: everybody everything about your past, even somebody you're dating. You
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to tell that person. You want to
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: be respectful and you want to be honest, Like if
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: you have herpies, you want to tell that person. Yeah,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I've heardpies. But saying you've had sex with ninety people
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: just seems extraneous. And group sex and kinky sex all
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: on the first date. Yeah, yeah, all of it is
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: just better left for the person that is going to
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: be able to digest that. My advice to her was
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: to slow her role, and that's your advice too. Yeah,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: slow your role is great. Just leave it at that.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: Slow your role. And the thing about having a lot
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: of sexual experience as a woman and a man, having
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: a problem with that you're the caller is disclosing all
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: of that right away, and then men are ghosting her.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: And if she let a guy get to know her
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: and then this came up and then they like had
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: that conversation where they talk about, you know, their experiences,
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: he may, if he's the type of guy who would
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: gohost on the first date, knowing all of that, he
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: may have to reassess his feelings and assumptions and prejudices
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: about more sexual experienced women if he knows you better,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: if he knows you well enough to like say to
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: to then question himself about the assumptions he might have
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: made about a sexually experienced woman having gotten to know you.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: And that's often what really helps people get past their
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: prejudices when it comes to dating and sex is getting
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: to know somebody and then finding out more about them
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: and then thinking, okay, well, my you know what I
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: thought about, you know, people who are HIV positive, what
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: I thought about people who did or used to do
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: or are doing sex work, what I thought about whatever,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: what I thought about dating someone other therapies. I'm gonna
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: have to rethink that because I have gotten to know
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: this person, and of course you should disclose everything. Somebody
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: has a right to know, so they can, you know,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: make informed consent before being sexually active with you. But
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: they don't have to know everything right away. Yeah, there's
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: no investment on the first date. It's easy, it is
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: to reject someone if you don't like their lifestyle or
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: their previous history. And like think like Chelsea, if you
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: were on a first date with a guy and he
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: suddenly told you the exact number of people you've had
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: sex with, all the different kinds of sex he's had
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: with these people. Even if you were like into the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: at and your number was as high or higher, wouldn't
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: you be like, that's kind of bad judgment. Like you
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: obviously have no filter, and what you want on the
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: first date is like a good time and to see
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: somebody has like a filter. Yeah, absolutely a filter. Filter.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Slow your role and get a filter, yes, absolutely. Okay,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: Well there was a lot of sex talk today, Dan,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I attribute that to your presence. Well, I really enjoyed it.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: I always loved sex talks, so yeah, I do. I
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: love your advice too. It's nice, nice and straight. Thank
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you so much. It was a pleasure to spend time
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: with you. Again. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: My pleasure. Thank you for inviting me or I really
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it and you give great advice to Thanks Dan,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: I'll see you soon hopefully. Okay, Thanks Dan, bye bye.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: And if you'd like to get advice from Chelsea and
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: one of her guests, please write into Dear Chelsea Project
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: at gmail dot com