Latest / Two Broke Chicks / The Price Of Being Hot ft. Froomes

Transcript

The Price Of Being Hot ft. Froomes · Two Broke Chicks

0:00
Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land, Always Was, Always
0:03
Speaker 1: Will be Aboriginal Land.
0:12
Speaker 2: Today's episode with Lucinda Price discusses her book All I
0:16
Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot and topics including disordered eating,
0:20
Speaker 2: body image, and mental health. If this episode may be
0:24
Speaker 2: potentially distressing to you, please skip this one and take
0:28
Speaker 2: care of yourself. If you're struggling, please reach out for help.
0:32
Speaker 2: We've popped some free resources to access in the description
0:36
Speaker 2: of today's episode, We love you chicks and let's get
0:39
Speaker 2: into it. Hey cheeks, I'm Sal and I'm ow and
0:48
Speaker 2: this is two broke chicks to show that shares life
0:50
Speaker 2: lessons and tips to help make you a rich in life.
0:54
Speaker 2: And today we are joined by writer, comedian ceo and
0:58
Speaker 2: now author of a published book, Loose Enter Price, I
1:02
Speaker 2: gay for room.
1:04
Speaker 3: Hello Sal, Hello, I'll hap us.
1:07
Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. We're going to be chatting all
1:10
Speaker 2: about your brand new book, All They Ever Wanted Was
1:13
Speaker 2: to Be Hot, which drops this week at the time
1:15
Speaker 2: of recording, and we are so excited. We both read it,
1:19
Speaker 2: we both love it. But before we get into it,
1:21
Speaker 2: we like to start with a life lesson of the week.
1:24
Speaker 2: I'll kick us off. My life lesson of the week
1:26
Speaker 2: isn't really a life lesson, It's just something that I
1:29
Speaker 2: like noticed over the weekend. But I've also been noticing
1:32
Speaker 2: on TikTok, especially over the last few weeks. So at
1:35
Speaker 2: the time of recording, it was Father's Day on the weekend,
1:39
Speaker 2: and a lot of people are posting like hot photos
1:43
Speaker 2: of their dads, like their dads when they were young,
1:46
Speaker 2: like in the nineties. And then there was also that
1:48
Speaker 2: trend on TikTok of people being like my dad used
1:51
Speaker 2: to say he was a heartbreaker, and then they show
1:54
Speaker 2: like a montage of all of these hot photos of
1:56
Speaker 2: their dads, And I just wanted to open up the conversation,
1:59
Speaker 2: how do we feel feel about it? Because I have
2:01
Speaker 2: conflicted feelings about the hot dad movement.
2:05
Speaker 3: Well, I always found it weird, Like you go, I
2:07
Speaker 3: posted on my on my Instagram, people always post for
2:10
Speaker 3: as their parents when they're hot, like he's a foot
2:12
Speaker 3: of my parents when they were like not looking hot,
2:14
Speaker 3: like mom's like smoking a darry and like like this,
2:16
Speaker 3: and then Dad's got a condom on his head. I'm like,
2:18
Speaker 3: let's not wise showing your parents when they look not
2:21
Speaker 3: the hottest of a look. You know what I mean,
2:23
Speaker 3: because I do find it. There's some weird like I
2:25
Speaker 3: don't know if it's Freudian thing going on there, but
2:27
Speaker 3: it's like, we saw what you're doing.
2:29
Speaker 2: I'm neither four Again, it's difficult terrain for you to navigate.
2:32
Speaker 2: I don't know what lesson I drew from that, but
2:36
Speaker 2: I had feelings about it.
2:37
Speaker 3: Clearly, I don't know it's a safe space.
2:39
Speaker 4: I'm so torn. I'm like, I canna unpack this in therapy.
2:42
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, Like if you find your parents hot, is
2:45
Speaker 1: that weird?
2:47
Speaker 2: She's like, uh clear my three class.
2:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, anyways of the week is I'm not
2:57
Speaker 1: going to send anyone into a downward spiral of con
3:00
Speaker 1: and blaming life.
3:01
Speaker 4: So no, I like it's good.
3:03
Speaker 2: I do give it up.
3:05
Speaker 1: But I haven't infected wisdom tooth and it's a lot
3:07
Speaker 1: for me to go through.
3:08
Speaker 2: It's been very upsetting.
3:10
Speaker 4: I am also the biggest hypochondriac.
3:12
Speaker 1: But the whole weekend friends were going out or like
3:16
Speaker 1: messaging me, and I like couldn't go. But the whole
3:21
Speaker 1: weekend I think I had like three friends message and
3:25
Speaker 1: check in and say how are you feeling? Let me
3:27
Speaker 1: know if you need anything. And then when they all
3:29
Speaker 1: went out, they sent me messages and they were like
3:32
Speaker 1: like hyppoo gee, I hope you're feeling better.
3:34
Speaker 3: We miss you.
3:35
Speaker 1: And it just made me really think about how like
3:38
Speaker 1: those are just the friends that you should have, Like
3:41
Speaker 1: if you know you don't want to go to something,
3:43
Speaker 1: or you can't go to something, or you're not feeling well,
3:45
Speaker 1: the friends.
3:45
Speaker 4: That check in and they make you feel like miss that.
3:48
Speaker 1: Like I think you need to find friends like that.
3:50
Speaker 1: That is like the top tier standard of Like I
3:53
Speaker 1: don't expect friends to check in every weekend and be
3:55
Speaker 1: like babying me. And I don't think that's like a
3:57
Speaker 1: standard to set because you know, everyone has their own
3:59
Speaker 1: lives and it's really busy. But I just think like
4:02
Speaker 1: that was a moment that I was like, oh, I
4:05
Speaker 1: love my friends.
4:06
Speaker 2: Yeah that's nice. I think either like try and find
4:08
Speaker 2: friends like that, or it's a nice reminder to like
4:10
Speaker 2: do that for you.
4:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's the other thing that I was going
4:13
Speaker 4: to say, to do that more.
4:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was getting earnest on the part about it's
4:20
Speaker 3: kind of like related to the Instagram dad thing. Do
4:23
Speaker 3: you guys know that meme? Which is like they don't
4:27
Speaker 3: they know you're pretty, they just don't want you. You
4:28
Speaker 3: guys seen that? Okay, So you know when you like
4:31
Speaker 3: someone and you start posting thirsty stuff on your story
4:33
Speaker 3: to get their attention. Yeah, it's like they know you're pretty,
4:38
Speaker 3: they just don't want you. Like we need to hear that.
4:42
Speaker 4: That hurt my feeling.
4:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually such a good reminder though.
4:46
Speaker 3: It's like nobody, like, you don't have to be posting
4:48
Speaker 3: the thirsty things. They know what you look like. Yeah,
4:51
Speaker 3: they just don't want you, and that's fine.
4:53
Speaker 4: That is free.
4:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do, like it's at first it's a bit
4:57
Speaker 5: like AWI, but I'm like, do you know it hurts
4:59
Speaker 5: more than like that little gut punch we just got
5:01
Speaker 5: hearing that is like searching through your story, like looking
5:06
Speaker 5: for the person and seeing that they either haven't seen
5:09
Speaker 5: it because you're clearly not even popping.
5:11
Speaker 2: Up in a high priority splot, they've seen it and
5:18
Speaker 2: they just haven't even reacted to it. Like that hurts
5:20
Speaker 2: more so like posts the thirsty or like sexy selfie
5:23
Speaker 2: but for yourself?
5:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, or do you know who are.
5:27
Speaker 2: The real like MVPs when it comes to that your girlfriends,
5:30
Speaker 2: like they're the ones who.
5:32
Speaker 4: Helped you pick which photo.
5:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will react to it. Yeah, I love it.
5:37
Speaker 2: Close it for yourself and for them. I love that. Okay,
5:40
Speaker 2: shall we get into the EP. Yeah, let's go. It's
5:47
Speaker 2: a very exciting week because your debut book, All I
5:50
Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, dropped on at the
5:52
Speaker 2: third of September. And for the chicks who haven't come
5:56
Speaker 2: across it yet, can you give us a little rundown
5:58
Speaker 2: of what we can expect?
6:01
Speaker 3: So All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot is
6:04
Speaker 3: part personal experience, part I guess investigation of the early
6:08
Speaker 3: two thousands and the time that we grew up in.
6:11
Speaker 3: And I use my personal experience as like the launching
6:14
Speaker 3: pad to then put context around it. So it's kind
6:16
Speaker 3: of like the seed of it. And then we've built
6:17
Speaker 3: context around it through looking at Victoria's Secret Angels, the
6:21
Speaker 3: Playboy Bunnies, things we were taught in school. I look
6:25
Speaker 3: a lot into nostalgia and the shows that we grew
6:27
Speaker 3: up watching, and which was really fun to do it
6:28
Speaker 3: because I was like, oh, I love these things as
6:31
Speaker 3: a kid. Oh, now let's look at it from this lens. Oh,
6:33
Speaker 3: that's interesting. Because I can see how I It's like,
6:36
Speaker 3: this is kind of off topic, but sometimes I go back
6:38
Speaker 3: and watch Austin Powers and I'm like, oh my god,
6:41
Speaker 3: I've jacked my whole like style, style of comedy. Things
6:45
Speaker 3: I find funny things I say, all from this show,
6:47
Speaker 3: Like that really imprints on you the things that you
6:49
Speaker 3: watch early on.
6:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's my whole personality and that's us with
6:52
Speaker 2: the granch.
6:53
Speaker 3: Yeah really, oh the chicks all that.
6:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true, we are here, see what I mean?
6:59
Speaker 2: What was the process like writing it for you then?
7:01
Speaker 2: Because you do have a journalism background and that shows
7:05
Speaker 2: by you know, how beautiful you write, but also the
7:08
Speaker 2: level of research and investigation and the interviews that you do.
7:12
Speaker 2: But what was it like, I suppose reliving some of
7:15
Speaker 2: those more vulnerable moments and dissecting those as well.
7:19
Speaker 3: Well, I read you guys book and I felt the
7:21
Speaker 3: same about the journalists thing. I'm like, oh, okay, you
7:23
Speaker 3: can really tell, like it is funny how you can't tell.
7:25
Speaker 3: I guess when you've done Commas degree debt. Yeah see,
7:34
Speaker 3: I loved your book as well. Thank you. It's like
7:36
Speaker 3: a warm hug thank you. The process, well, like anything
7:40
Speaker 3: that felt nothing was really like too rough for me.
7:43
Speaker 3: I don't think it was just more exciting because I'd
7:45
Speaker 3: already gone through I talk about having an eating disorder
7:47
Speaker 3: in the book, and to have gone through that, I'd
7:50
Speaker 3: already done kind of like a lot of the facing
7:53
Speaker 3: the hard parts of it because a lot of it
7:55
Speaker 3: is reflecting and then having to rejig the way you
7:59
Speaker 3: look at things are kind of done that whole process.
8:02
Speaker 3: So looking back, it wasn't that difficult. I guess there's
8:04
Speaker 3: like other things that I wrote about in the books
8:06
Speaker 3: that were a bit more difficult because I'd never put
8:08
Speaker 3: them into words, Like there's things that surprise you. You're like, oh,
8:11
Speaker 3: I didn't think I would feel like a certain way
8:13
Speaker 3: about that, but I feel I feel a certain way
8:16
Speaker 3: about that. And then it's funny having people like doing
8:17
Speaker 3: interviews or speaking to people about the book. The things
8:20
Speaker 3: that they pick out as what would have been hard
8:22
Speaker 3: isn't hard, But the things that they just think was normal.
8:24
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, Colin, you're not asking about that
8:26
Speaker 3: thing that felt really vulnerable and that I didn't want
8:28
Speaker 3: to keep in there, but I kept in there.
8:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:30
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because even reading it, it is
8:33
Speaker 1: like a self reflective book to read, Like when you're
8:36
Speaker 1: reading it as yourself, it's you can you know, feel
8:39
Speaker 1: you you can feel like as if you were literally
8:42
Speaker 1: a person inside this book talking to me as the reader,
8:45
Speaker 1: which is amazing because it feels like such a safe place,
8:48
Speaker 1: but it's also exactly what you're saying that when you're
8:50
Speaker 1: reading it, you can you can feel yourself thinking about
8:53
Speaker 1: how it applies to yourself and the things that.
8:56
Speaker 2: You've been through.
8:56
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things was that the title wasn't
8:58
Speaker 1: actually going to be the title.
9:00
Speaker 3: No, not at all. It's yeah, it was gonna be
9:02
Speaker 3: perfect candidate, which I'm just like, I don't even know
9:04
Speaker 3: how to say candidate properly far out like, thank Heaven's
9:09
Speaker 3: I dodged that bullet because it would be completely different,
9:12
Speaker 3: Like I'm always also thinking about the kind of press
9:14
Speaker 3: that I'm doing for it would be completely different at
9:16
Speaker 3: least with the title. Now you kind of know what
9:18
Speaker 3: you're getting. Yeah. I came up with that title because
9:23
Speaker 3: when I was probably like halfway through writing the book,
9:25
Speaker 3: I was like, Fuck, there's this thing that I keep
9:27
Speaker 3: coming back to, which is actually all I ever wanted
9:30
Speaker 3: was to be hot, and I've thought that for a
9:31
Speaker 3: long time, and it wasn't until kind of like this
9:34
Speaker 3: age that I thought maybe that is weird or it's
9:36
Speaker 3: something that it always felt like, Oh, that sounds really
9:40
Speaker 3: like depraved and vain and like kind of fucked up.
9:43
Speaker 3: But then I'm like, wait, everything that we do is
9:46
Speaker 3: kind of about that, Like why are we on Instagram guys?
9:49
Speaker 3: Because we want to be fucking hot? Like, yeah, I
9:50
Speaker 3: don't know. I just found it. It was free and
9:53
Speaker 3: doing that title because I think, on the one hand,
9:55
Speaker 3: I instantly feel worried that people are going to think
9:57
Speaker 3: I'm really vain, but then it's kind of like the
10:00
Speaker 3: unspoken thing that a lot of people feel that way,
10:03
Speaker 3: and just the statistics show that I'm not alone. So
10:06
Speaker 3: I put my hand up and say all over I
10:07
Speaker 3: wanted was to be hot. Yeah, for sure.
10:10
Speaker 2: And I think the first chapter really talks about that
10:13
Speaker 2: and like one of your earliest experiences learning that hotness
10:17
Speaker 2: is a source of power, especially for women, And then
10:23
Speaker 2: the end of the book you tie that in again
10:26
Speaker 2: and I guess your relationship with that concept now, So
10:30
Speaker 2: what is your relationship with that power dynamic and what
10:34
Speaker 2: are some sources of power that you pull from now
10:36
Speaker 2: instead of being hot.
10:38
Speaker 3: I guess the way that I look at it when
10:39
Speaker 3: I was younger, is it I definitely felt like I
10:42
Speaker 3: didn't have access to the spaces that I've always wanted.
10:44
Speaker 3: Now I do, like I always wanted to do this job.
10:47
Speaker 3: I alway knew exactly what I want to do. I
10:49
Speaker 3: always wanted to write a book. I just wanted to
10:51
Speaker 3: be a presenter when I was a little girl, like
10:52
Speaker 3: I wanted to be row live.
10:54
Speaker 2: Yes, I can see you hosting what.
10:58
Speaker 3: I would like feel jealous of of, Like fuck, I
11:01
Speaker 3: so want to do your job, like anyway love rope.
11:04
Speaker 3: He's another blueprint. So I think when I was younger,
11:07
Speaker 3: like any kind of like attractiveness that I had that
11:11
Speaker 3: was my calling card, like going to clubs young and
11:13
Speaker 3: like talking to guys, feeling like I could have access
11:16
Speaker 3: to spaces through men like I think that's and I
11:19
Speaker 3: think so I would definitely like play to a very
11:21
Speaker 3: stereotypical male gaze as a young girl, which I think
11:24
Speaker 3: like a lot of us do. I find it funny
11:26
Speaker 3: now whenever I go to this shopping center and I
11:29
Speaker 3: see little late teeny bopper thirteen year old girls and
11:31
Speaker 3: they still wear the same things that we wore, which
11:33
Speaker 3: is like the roll down track. He's a little crop top. Yeah,
11:35
Speaker 3: there's like a uniform that you initiates you into being
11:38
Speaker 3: like a little girl, a little woman girl. But yeah,
11:41
Speaker 3: for many years it was kind of like the I say,
11:44
Speaker 3: it's like what I thought a thirteen year old boy
11:47
Speaker 3: would think is a gorgeous woman. Is what I always
11:49
Speaker 3: tried to be, which was quite restrictive at change the
11:51
Speaker 3: way that I would like behave, eat, exercise, do certain
11:58
Speaker 3: like procedures, even all the way down to like like
12:01
Speaker 3: laser hair removal. You know, I look back now and
12:03
Speaker 3: I think, oh, did I need to laser every single
12:06
Speaker 3: hair of my body? Not sure, but we've done it
12:09
Speaker 3: now and there's no turning back. So I guess I
12:11
Speaker 3: had this very like homogeneous, homogenized, like one set beauty standard,
12:17
Speaker 3: and if I didn't look good or if I didn't
12:18
Speaker 3: feel good, I wasn't sure where I'd get my power from.
12:22
Speaker 3: Whereas now I think, because I have a lot of
12:24
Speaker 3: agency with work and agency with my friends, I feel
12:27
Speaker 3: like I've got heaps of friends and the happy job,
12:30
Speaker 3: my happy home life in my apartment, that's less necessary.
12:35
Speaker 3: I still like to feel like I look good, like
12:38
Speaker 3: I've put a full beat on today, I've got my
12:40
Speaker 3: little tiny tank top on, and like I still like
12:44
Speaker 3: feeling good and looking good in a very particular way.
12:46
Speaker 3: But it's not everything.
12:48
Speaker 1: So makes sense that, yeah, the self worth doesn't come
12:51
Speaker 1: from that, not how we look it comes from. And
12:54
Speaker 1: that's like that quote, that's like, you know, when you die,
12:57
Speaker 1: people won't say, oh, you know, she had a flat
13:00
Speaker 1: tummy or her hair was really pretty, So they'll say
13:03
Speaker 1: she had a great laugh, or she was always there
13:05
Speaker 1: when you needed her. And it's like that that reminder
13:08
Speaker 1: and that's where your power comes from, which it's really
13:10
Speaker 1: really hard to pull away from, especially for the fact
13:13
Speaker 1: that you know, we live in society and you do
13:15
Speaker 1: explore this in the book as well about how if
13:19
Speaker 1: you know the pretty privilege right, and you know, we
13:23
Speaker 1: then set up in a way that it's like, Okay,
13:25
Speaker 1: well I'm not pretty, so I'll do something about it,
13:28
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, a procedure or dyeing your hair
13:31
Speaker 1: or dressing a certain way. But then it's a secret
13:35
Speaker 1: because you're shamed for it. So like, what is that
13:38
Speaker 1: balance of and how do you feel about that balance.
13:41
Speaker 4: Of like Okay, well, you know, I will do.
13:44
Speaker 1: This so that I'm pretty, but then I can't tell
13:46
Speaker 1: anyone because I'm shamed for it, and it's like a
13:48
Speaker 1: lose lose battle.
13:50
Speaker 3: Exhaustingly, Yeah, you feel like a fraud, I think, yeah, yeah,
13:55
Speaker 3: that's that was probably what I found hardest to write
13:57
Speaker 3: about in the book is anything to do with plastic surgery,
14:00
Speaker 3: because I felt that shame and I felt like I
14:01
Speaker 3: didn't want anyone to know what I looked like before,
14:03
Speaker 3: like from the age of eleven onwards. I couldn't like
14:06
Speaker 3: share any baby photos, but like on Instagram and stuff,
14:09
Speaker 3: I put a photo of me when I'm five because
14:11
Speaker 3: the little nose is like yeah, but so yeah, there's
14:15
Speaker 3: a lot of kind of like and I still get emotion,
14:17
Speaker 3: like not emotional, but I still get a bit affected
14:19
Speaker 3: now and people say, oh, can I see a nose before?
14:22
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I'm still that girl inside, so I
14:24
Speaker 3: don't want you to see it and say, oh, yeah, fuck,
14:26
Speaker 3: that was pretty bad or you know, or it wasn't
14:28
Speaker 3: even bad. It's not really like your decision to tell
14:31
Speaker 3: me that.
14:33
Speaker 2: There's just nothing productive that comes from that, really.
14:35
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, and get I get the curiosity people always
14:38
Speaker 3: love it before and after. There's a whole industry built
14:41
Speaker 3: on it. But yeah, that still affects me. So I
14:44
Speaker 3: think to your point, like there's a little bit inside
14:47
Speaker 3: you that feels I still feel ashamed of it, and
14:49
Speaker 3: I still feel shamed that like I am naturally don't
14:54
Speaker 3: look the way that I look now, hmm.
14:56
Speaker 1: But like that's the thing that I hate as well.
14:59
Speaker 1: But it's also very very normal and very relatable because
15:03
Speaker 1: it's like it's like you are you know, you've got
15:07
Speaker 1: this power and you've got this pretty privilege if you're hot,
15:09
Speaker 1: but you're not supposed to want to be hot. Yeah, fully,
15:12
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to allow like you don't want to
15:15
Speaker 1: be hot, you just have to be hot, But if
15:16
Speaker 1: you do anything about it, then that's cheating and it
15:18
Speaker 1: doesn't count.
15:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like it's a fine line, and
15:22
Speaker 2: I guess like reconciling with that and like the shame
15:26
Speaker 2: and whatnot that we feel around it, it's just like
15:29
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is, and I don't
15:30
Speaker 2: think any of us have the answer, But I think
15:32
Speaker 2: even just talking about it is hopefully helpful for people
15:36
Speaker 2: out there to like, you know, feel less shame around
15:39
Speaker 2: it and know that it's like a really normal thing
15:41
Speaker 2: to feel conflicted about these things. And throughout the book,
15:45
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, you do talk a lot about you know,
15:48
Speaker 2: like societal pressures on how we look, but then also
15:52
Speaker 2: like how the role of genetics can play into it,
15:56
Speaker 2: or even you know, like nature verse nurture, like how
15:58
Speaker 2: we're brought up like shout out to the arm and
16:01
Speaker 2: mum chapter and all of that. But then you also
16:05
Speaker 2: talk about how these things and our relationship with these
16:08
Speaker 2: things can be changed or unlearned. So what is something
16:14
Speaker 2: that people can do after listening to this episode or
16:17
Speaker 2: after reading your book to unlearn even one of these things?
16:21
Speaker 3: Yes, I love this is what I love about your podcast.
16:23
Speaker 3: Hey takeaways?
16:25
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we need the hat.
16:28
Speaker 3: The Instagram is popping definitely, even in the last year.
16:33
Speaker 3: I've just seen the girls. The Girlies are on one.
16:35
Speaker 2: That means a lot.
16:37
Speaker 3: Every time you help my feet. Actually like I learned
16:39
Speaker 3: something and I like it. Thank you. That's really new.
16:43
Speaker 3: I'm proud to know you. Really impressive right back at you.
16:50
Speaker 3: So my actionable takeaway would be, if I could be
16:52
Speaker 3: so bold to suggest one, would be that what I
16:56
Speaker 3: found when I was recovering from an eating disorder, and
16:57
Speaker 3: my body was changing rapidly and I completely changed the
17:01
Speaker 3: way that my body looked was following women with the
17:05
Speaker 3: same body shape as me. That sounds like we've heard
17:08
Speaker 3: it all before, We've heard like d like whatever the
17:10
Speaker 3: figh your feed, but it fully makes a difference, like
17:15
Speaker 3: having someone who was like wearing cool clothes and being confident.
17:20
Speaker 3: And for me, you know, the people that I followed,
17:22
Speaker 3: they still looked kind of like sexy, like they still
17:25
Speaker 3: had sex appeal, which I needed to see. You know,
17:28
Speaker 3: the book is about you shouldn't have to look a
17:30
Speaker 3: certain way to like be I guess, like liberated and
17:35
Speaker 3: make your decisions and date and do all this stuff.
17:38
Speaker 3: But when you had when I placed so much emphasis
17:42
Speaker 3: on myself looking a certain way and feeling like I
17:44
Speaker 3: was only desirable a certain way, when I came out
17:46
Speaker 3: of that seeing that you can still be desirable at
17:49
Speaker 3: all different shapes and sizes, and it is about your
17:51
Speaker 3: like funkiness, I say, me and my friend call it funkiness,
17:54
Speaker 3: like it's about you like spunk and like, yeah, charisma,
17:58
Speaker 3: it goes a long way. I will say, it's easier
18:00
Speaker 3: and I look at this in the book, like it
18:02
Speaker 3: is easier for men to not be conventionally attractive and
18:05
Speaker 3: to still have that spunk. That's what where we expect.
18:07
Speaker 2: Well, that's like the rat boy frog boy, like like
18:11
Speaker 2: ugly hot is for men, it.
18:14
Speaker 3: Must be nice, Yeah, it would be good. But diversifying
18:19
Speaker 3: the people that you follow and finding people who the
18:23
Speaker 3: other thing is like the mid sized influencers like that
18:25
Speaker 3: or wasn't a thing when we were like teenage girls,
18:28
Speaker 3: but now I look at it and I'm like, yeah,
18:29
Speaker 3: like you actually can wear like a little miniskirt or
18:31
Speaker 3: this or that.
18:32
Speaker 2: I do think that that is a good It is
18:34
Speaker 2: a good tip to follow people who look like you
18:37
Speaker 2: or just don't look like the stereotypical standard of beauty
18:41
Speaker 2: and seeing how they style things or and you know,
18:45
Speaker 2: I also think they don't have to be like, you know,
18:49
Speaker 2: waving a flag of like body positivity, or they don't
18:52
Speaker 2: have to be an advocate, but they just exist.
18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the most powerful bit when they just exist. Yeah.
18:57
Speaker 1: One of the things that I always felt difficult to navigate,
19:00
Speaker 1: and it wasn't necessarily something I was consciously realizing, was
19:04
Speaker 1: when I was following brands and the brands didn't necessarily
19:07
Speaker 1: ever repost or post with bodies that, you know, any
19:13
Speaker 1: sort of body do, any sort of body diversity, or
19:16
Speaker 1: like having a big bust. I was like, I'm and
19:19
Speaker 1: the thing that would go on my head would be, oh,
19:21
Speaker 1: I can never wear that, Like I can never wear that.
19:23
Speaker 2: I can never wear that.
19:24
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize how often that was happening until
19:27
Speaker 1: I like made the realization and started like unfollowing because
19:31
Speaker 1: I was like, all it's doing is acting as a
19:34
Speaker 1: reminder of like what I'm not.
19:35
Speaker 4: But it doesn't mean like you have to like you know,
19:37
Speaker 4: Boycott never shopped.
19:38
Speaker 3: There or whatever.
19:39
Speaker 1: But if there's something that's coming up as a negative
19:43
Speaker 1: part or something that's telling you you're less then or not,
19:45
Speaker 1: something that's also something to like filter out.
19:49
Speaker 3: One hundred Yeah.
19:51
Speaker 1: Ye, So you spoke a lot about the Victorious Secret
19:55
Speaker 1: Show and Victoria's Secret Models, which was a throw back.
19:59
Speaker 4: I haven't thought about that in a long long time.
20:02
Speaker 1: But it was also when we were growing up, Like
20:04
Speaker 1: it was like a Christmas thing.
20:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, Like you knew like summer.
20:08
Speaker 1: Was coming and it was like Christmas time because the
20:10
Speaker 1: Victoria's Secret Show was happening. Ye, the show was canceled
20:13
Speaker 1: six years ago and this year it's coming back.
20:17
Speaker 2: What do you think about that?
20:19
Speaker 3: Obviously, Yeah, I'm not across the fact that it's coming back. Yeah,
20:22
Speaker 3: I'm like, let fenty have its time, like fenty is
20:25
Speaker 3: where it's at. I remember seeing my first fenty show
20:29
Speaker 3: on the TV and being like, wow, like this is
20:32
Speaker 3: how I should have felt watching a lingerie show like
20:34
Speaker 3: it made me want to go and buy every single underwear,
20:38
Speaker 3: like because I had complete body diversity, gender diversity, people
20:43
Speaker 3: were pregnant, like they had everything and kind of like
20:47
Speaker 3: what we were saying about seeing the same lingerie and
20:50
Speaker 3: all different bodies, It's like, oh, okay, now I can
20:52
Speaker 3: wear that. So I think something like that should continue
20:55
Speaker 3: because that was very It didn't feel like that had
20:58
Speaker 3: any gaze on. It felt like it was through the
21:01
Speaker 3: lens of like dance and like all this stuff that's
21:04
Speaker 3: ephemeral and like not so much. You look good, you
21:07
Speaker 3: look don't you don't look good? So, yeah, Victoria's Secret
21:10
Speaker 3: coming back. I'm like, I don't know what the audience
21:13
Speaker 3: will be, Like, I guess the CEO and stuff would say,
21:17
Speaker 3: you know, this is a show about fantasy. That's why
21:19
Speaker 3: we don't have anyone who's not a size XYZ, you know, so,
21:23
Speaker 3: and then their sales have gone down, so I'd feel
21:25
Speaker 3: like the ship has sailed with Victoria's secret, to be honest,
21:28
Speaker 3: be interesting to see if people get around it. But
21:32
Speaker 3: it was such a moment in time, and it really like,
21:36
Speaker 3: I really think it has a lot of blood on
21:37
Speaker 3: its hands, a lot of blood on its hands, because
21:40
Speaker 3: all I'd remember doing is going to my room afterwards,
21:43
Speaker 3: taking all my clothes off and going back and forward
21:45
Speaker 3: in the mirror and being like, I'm not good enough.
21:50
Speaker 2: All like the articles about how they like, what they
21:53
Speaker 2: eat and what they do to train, like before the shows,
21:57
Speaker 2: and like the different messages that were being sent via that,
22:00
Speaker 2: because it either was like they were on a really
22:02
Speaker 2: restrictive diet or you know, on a juice cleanse or
22:05
Speaker 2: something for seventy two hours beforehand, or they'd be like, oh,
22:08
Speaker 2: like I don't really I just eat.
22:09
Speaker 1: Normal a whole pizza, and it's like, yeah, fucking real.
22:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, they kind of can't win, yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:18
Speaker 1: And I think that's also a lot of behind the scenes,
22:21
Speaker 1: you know, media training and pr messaging that was pushed
22:25
Speaker 1: on people, and it's just I agree. I think I'm
22:29
Speaker 1: very interested from like a curiosity perspective to see.
22:34
Speaker 4: What that like, that change is going to be.
22:38
Speaker 1: But I agree, I think it's like, just take a
22:41
Speaker 1: step back.
22:43
Speaker 2: You had your time, yeah, exactly like you had your moment,
22:45
Speaker 2: you had your time.
22:46
Speaker 3: In the sun.
22:47
Speaker 2: You completely fucked it.
22:48
Speaker 3: Let's just leave it, you know what I mean.
22:51
Speaker 2: Another thing we wanted to talk about that you do
22:53
Speaker 2: reference as a movement a few times throughout the book
22:58
Speaker 2: is body neutrality. And I think a lot of us
23:02
Speaker 2: heard about body positivity in the last ten years, but
23:06
Speaker 2: neutrality is something or being body neutral is something that's
23:09
Speaker 2: a bit more of a newer term or concept. So
23:12
Speaker 2: we wanted to know, like, what are your thoughts on that,
23:15
Speaker 2: and whether or not we should be embracing that as well.
23:19
Speaker 3: Yes, I think we should all be embracing body neutrality
23:22
Speaker 3: if that's what we want and that's what makes us
23:24
Speaker 3: feel empowered. I know that when I was had an
23:27
Speaker 3: eating disorder and when I was coming out of that,
23:29
Speaker 3: everything was about my body. Any comment anyone made was
23:33
Speaker 3: diabolical to me. I was totally and utterly wrapped up
23:37
Speaker 3: in my body, both during the eating disorder and also
23:39
Speaker 3: coming out of it, and so a concept like body
23:42
Speaker 3: neutrality gave me a lot of license to step out
23:45
Speaker 3: of that and to be like, oh no, there is
23:47
Speaker 3: a whole thing. You know, this is a movement, like
23:49
Speaker 3: this is something that people practice and it works for them,
23:52
Speaker 3: which is essentially just like not placing so much emphasis
23:55
Speaker 3: on the way you look and rather looking at the
23:57
Speaker 3: way you feel and not feeling like I think when
23:59
Speaker 3: body positivity started, it was radical and I think it
24:02
Speaker 3: was helpful, but like so many things, I guess it
24:06
Speaker 3: also became a bit of like a so what we're
24:08
Speaker 3: meant to love our bodies when society is telling us
24:12
Speaker 3: to hate them? Like that's a lot to put on
24:13
Speaker 3: an individual.
24:14
Speaker 2: It also can feel quite far away, Yes, so far away.
24:17
Speaker 3: Even body neutrality, I think can feel really far away.
24:20
Speaker 3: It did for me, And then I got to be
24:21
Speaker 3: body neutrality and I'm like, oh, okay, this feels really good.
24:25
Speaker 3: I think you can tell that you're making progress when
24:26
Speaker 3: you start looking at other people in a neutral way.
24:30
Speaker 3: And no, when I was unwell, i'd look at all
24:31
Speaker 3: people on the street and have like really judged them
24:34
Speaker 3: or really compare myself to them, depending on where they
24:37
Speaker 3: were on the scale. And then when I kind of
24:39
Speaker 3: started embracing body neutrality, I was like, Ah, it's actually
24:43
Speaker 3: so nice not judging other people, because when you're judging
24:46
Speaker 3: other people, it's in reference to yourself always. Yeah, I understand.
24:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that ties in quite interestingly to how
24:53
Speaker 1: you discussed about compliments and the way we not only
24:56
Speaker 1: talk to ourselves about our looks, but the way that
24:59
Speaker 1: we talk to other peop people about them.
25:01
Speaker 3: Yeah. When I first started losing weight, I had a
25:02
Speaker 3: restrictive eating disorder. When I first started losing weight, I
25:07
Speaker 3: didn't have any weight to lose, not that anyone ever does,
25:09
Speaker 3: but like it very quickly became obviously a problem. But
25:14
Speaker 3: I got so many compliments, like people be like, oh
25:16
Speaker 3: my god, body like fire emoji, like what do you do?
25:19
Speaker 3: I have behaviors in the office that I worked in,
25:21
Speaker 3: them were very clearly problematic, Like it was very clear
25:24
Speaker 3: that I had an eating disorder for anyone who would
25:25
Speaker 3: have had one. And again the compliments kept coming, like
25:30
Speaker 3: how do you eat the same thing every day? Like
25:31
Speaker 3: where do you get your willpower from? It was all
25:33
Speaker 3: about willpower and me kind of being holier than there
25:37
Speaker 3: and I already felt that way so like all these
25:38
Speaker 3: things were confirming it, and well meaning people like people
25:41
Speaker 3: didn't mean to kind of like no one knew what
25:46
Speaker 3: I was going through internally, but I noticed as well.
25:50
Speaker 3: Even when I go shopping stuff, it'd always be because
25:53
Speaker 3: I did haven't. It's unusual to be underweight to the
25:57
Speaker 3: point where you haven't eating disorder, I know, but I
26:00
Speaker 3: think some people are so tapped themselves that they're thinking, oh, well,
26:04
Speaker 3: they look good though, because that is the you know,
26:06
Speaker 3: skinnier and skinnier as better as better as better, because
26:08
Speaker 3: it is something that is hard to maintain and get. Yeah,
26:11
Speaker 3: and I know, before I had a restrictive eating disorder,
26:14
Speaker 3: before I was very unwell, I kind of looked at
26:20
Speaker 3: women who were struggling with anorexia and I'd be be like,
26:24
Speaker 3: oh that that'd bit it must be nice, you know,
26:27
Speaker 3: Like I was, I was still tapped, even though for
26:28
Speaker 3: a lot it took me a long time to get
26:30
Speaker 3: to the point where I was one of those women.
26:32
Speaker 3: I'd totally look at them and be like, oh, no,
26:34
Speaker 3: that looks like I'd love that. Like maybe I wouldn't
26:36
Speaker 3: go that far, but like it'd be kind of lit
26:37
Speaker 3: like having a full on box gap, like had these
26:39
Speaker 3: real tapped thoughts. So I think if someone loses weight,
26:45
Speaker 3: I never comment on it. There's still sometimes like a
26:47
Speaker 3: desire because you want to be like, oh, like you
26:49
Speaker 3: look different, like what is it? Or have you changed
26:51
Speaker 3: your hair? Or do you do this or do that?
26:52
Speaker 3: But yeah, my idea now is to not comment on
26:55
Speaker 3: anything that people can't change. So I don't comment on
26:57
Speaker 3: like height or weight, or you're breast size, your bum size,
27:02
Speaker 3: especially things yeah that have some kind of like sexual connotation,
27:05
Speaker 3: because I found that, like people always comment about my boobs.
27:08
Speaker 3: It's just a thing, and like so many times it's
27:11
Speaker 3: well meaning and like no one's trying to like hurt
27:13
Speaker 3: my feelings because having b boobs isn't necessarily a bad thing.
27:16
Speaker 3: It's seen as a good thing, right, But I found
27:19
Speaker 3: that whenever someone would comment on my boobs, it'd make
27:21
Speaker 3: it'd pull me out of myself and again it's taking
27:23
Speaker 3: me out of that body neutrality place where I'm like, oh,
27:26
Speaker 3: I'm in the world and you're perceiving me that way.
27:28
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about that today. What else are
27:30
Speaker 3: you thinking about? So if you're kind of like a
27:31
Speaker 3: ruminator or an overthinker, and you'd be around people who
27:35
Speaker 3: are ruminators or overthinkers. Like every little thing affects can
27:39
Speaker 3: affect someone, even hair sometimes, like I wanted to say
27:42
Speaker 3: to you, I really love your hair because I'm on
27:43
Speaker 3: my hair growth journey, but I stop myself because I'm like, well,
27:46
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, think about this. So maybe
27:48
Speaker 3: you really like your hair today, but maybe you only
27:50
Speaker 3: feel good when it looks a certain way, or maybe
27:52
Speaker 3: you had hair issues before. Like I try to be
27:55
Speaker 3: super sensitive conscious, but I think it can take people
28:00
Speaker 3: going through something like an eating disorder to understand how
28:03
Speaker 3: that impacts people, because most of you just think, oh,
28:05
Speaker 3: I'm giving me a compliment.
28:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I do think, I think and
28:09
Speaker 1: I've been trying to do similarly the same thing where
28:12
Speaker 1: you don't compliment someone on their looks. But whenever I've
28:16
Speaker 1: really made a conscious choice to compliment someone on something
28:20
Speaker 1: that was like that was really funny or like I
28:22
Speaker 1: had so much fun with you today, whatever, it is,
28:25
Speaker 1: like you see people light up so much more when
28:30
Speaker 1: you compliment their soul rather than their physical, Like it
28:33
Speaker 1: is just the way that you see And I think
28:36
Speaker 1: that is like the best way to maybe teach yourself
28:39
Speaker 1: out of doing.
28:40
Speaker 4: That, because it is a bit of a habit.
28:42
Speaker 1: I think a thing to try and like train yourself
28:44
Speaker 1: out of it is to think of the compliment that's
28:47
Speaker 1: more about the person, Yeah, because it is kind of
28:51
Speaker 1: hard to not do that, Like it is a bit
28:53
Speaker 1: of a training thing, yeah.
28:55
Speaker 3: Or think you think about, Yeah, what are the best
28:56
Speaker 3: compliments you've ever gotten and how they make you feel?
28:59
Speaker 3: I love that, Yeah, yeah for sure. And you know
29:03
Speaker 3: what rings true? And I think the other thing with
29:04
Speaker 3: looks or even anything physical is that it changes over time.
29:08
Speaker 3: And so if you're complimented early on, like oh, wow,
29:11
Speaker 3: you're so beautiful, You're so beautiful, you're so beautiful, what
29:13
Speaker 3: happens when you are no longer beautiful in the way
29:15
Speaker 3: that you would compliment on Like imagine that four from
29:17
Speaker 3: Grace's so true. Yeah.
29:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there was another part that I thought
29:24
Speaker 2: was really insightful and also like sometimes made me feel
29:27
Speaker 2: quite sad at points, was you talk a lot about
29:31
Speaker 2: how the people in your life who love you, like
29:36
Speaker 2: your mom or your friends, and how they tried to
29:39
Speaker 2: broach the conversation when you were going through what you
29:43
Speaker 2: were going through, and how it can be really awkward,
29:47
Speaker 2: and people don't know how to ask like are you okay?
29:51
Speaker 2: Or do it in a way that's actually helpful and
29:56
Speaker 2: isn't going to offend anybody or like push somebody away,
29:59
Speaker 2: I think is another thing. So do you have any
30:01
Speaker 2: advice on anyone who wants to broach this conversation with
30:06
Speaker 2: a loved one about you know, their mental health or
30:09
Speaker 2: perhaps their relationship with their body in a way that
30:13
Speaker 2: is going to be effective And I know that it's
30:15
Speaker 2: going to be different for everyone.
30:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a good question because it's that's probably
30:20
Speaker 3: the hardest thing that I Like, I've got friends who
30:24
Speaker 3: are definitely going through things which I struggle to bring
30:27
Speaker 3: up with them, and they're in positions that I was before,
30:30
Speaker 3: and I still don't And even though I've gone through
30:32
Speaker 3: it and they know they've seen me go through it,
30:34
Speaker 3: I still struggle to put the words to it and
30:36
Speaker 3: ask them the right questions. It's really hard. And I
30:39
Speaker 3: remember when I was unwell, people would reach out to me,
30:42
Speaker 3: Like I had a friend who I wasn't super close with,
30:44
Speaker 3: but I had been previously, and I took some video
30:46
Speaker 3: of myself in the mirror and she was like, are
30:49
Speaker 3: you okay or something, and it just it just like
30:52
Speaker 3: pissed me off because other things, like my type of
30:54
Speaker 3: eating disorder, everything would pisce me off. I was angry
30:57
Speaker 3: all the time. And so you've got to be if
30:58
Speaker 3: you're going to be the person who's going to say something,
31:00
Speaker 3: you've got to be prepared to like be bitten. Yeah,
31:03
Speaker 3: but sometimes you do have to take the step and
31:06
Speaker 3: be the person because eventually, when the person comes out
31:09
Speaker 3: of it, I think they'll see that you had the
31:11
Speaker 3: best intentions. But I think there are some things you
31:13
Speaker 3: can do, like Butterfly Foundation and inside Out an Institute
31:18
Speaker 3: of Being Disorders have good guidelines for this kind of thing.
31:20
Speaker 3: But going off my gut feeling, I would avoid saying
31:23
Speaker 3: things like, oh, you look really different, or you look
31:25
Speaker 3: like you've lost a lot of weight, because for someone
31:28
Speaker 3: who's sick, that can be a real compliment and it
31:29
Speaker 3: can just encourage them to go further. And also just
31:33
Speaker 3: that's often one very particular symptom someone could be going through,
31:37
Speaker 3: like a binge eating disorder, and you can't you don't
31:40
Speaker 3: see them on a Sunday because they're at home all day,
31:43
Speaker 3: you know, engaging the behavior, and so it isn't visible.
31:49
Speaker 3: I guess the thing to focus on is maybe you
31:51
Speaker 3: haven't really been yourself, like I feel like you're a
31:52
Speaker 3: bit vacant talking about how they were before verse now
31:55
Speaker 3: and not guilty of it, being like I feel like
31:57
Speaker 3: we haven't laughed in a long time, or like, is
31:59
Speaker 3: there something you want to do that would be fun
32:01
Speaker 3: for you? Because I think as well, your priorities can
32:03
Speaker 3: narrow socially when you have an eating disorder, don't want
32:05
Speaker 3: to go out and eat with people, or struggle to
32:08
Speaker 3: stay with people for long amounts of time because you're tired.
32:11
Speaker 3: So I guess asking them questions about themselves, but also
32:13
Speaker 3: knowing when to back away and not make them feel targeted.
32:15
Speaker 3: Like there are a few instances in the book where
32:17
Speaker 3: I talk about how friends would make comments and they
32:20
Speaker 3: would upset me. They probably shouldn't have upset me because
32:23
Speaker 3: they were very small. I gave the book to one
32:25
Speaker 3: of my friends. I went and visited her recently. She
32:28
Speaker 3: sent me this really beautiful whatspped message after being like Cindy, like,
32:31
Speaker 3: I didn't know you were going through this thing. I
32:33
Speaker 3: didn't mean what I said, Like we were really young,
32:35
Speaker 3: like I didn't know what to say, and I just
32:36
Speaker 3: felt like being like to her. I hope I don't
32:38
Speaker 3: read this book and think that I'm blaming you at all.
32:40
Speaker 3: It's just I'm talking about the way I thought back then,
32:42
Speaker 3: and I was tapped. I think it's also like if
32:44
Speaker 3: you're so, if you're a friend who said something that
32:47
Speaker 3: hasn't gone well with someone who's going through it, just
32:50
Speaker 3: know as well. I think they'll come around. Like me
32:51
Speaker 3: and this friend that's like brought us to a new
32:53
Speaker 3: level of bonding where I feel bad about the way
32:56
Speaker 3: I behaved more than she should and we now can
32:59
Speaker 3: come together and talk about at it. But yeah, it's
33:02
Speaker 3: definitely hard. I still struggle even though I've gone through it.
33:05
Speaker 2: I think that's really great advice.
33:06
Speaker 1: So I think that's really helpful of you know, taking
33:10
Speaker 1: it out of again the physical and making it more
33:12
Speaker 1: about you know, we haven't laughed in a really long time,
33:15
Speaker 1: or I really want to spend more time with you
33:16
Speaker 1: and you know we don't see you as much, and
33:18
Speaker 1: making it more about that.
33:19
Speaker 3: I'd avoid saying we've all been talking about it, make
33:22
Speaker 3: it so.
33:23
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, that's hurtful.
33:25
Speaker 3: Because let's be real, like everyone, like we're.
33:28
Speaker 2: Like we're worried about you, like we've been I've been
33:31
Speaker 2: talking with so and so and so and so, and
33:32
Speaker 2: we're all worried about you. I think that kind of
33:35
Speaker 2: group mentality in that situation, because you.
33:38
Speaker 1: Already feel so isolated, you already feel like everyone's looking
33:42
Speaker 1: at you. Yeah, so that's like a confirmation of worst fears. Yeah, basically, yeah,
33:47
Speaker 1: exactly it it's like all cool, So everyone was looking
33:50
Speaker 1: at me and thinking bad things about me, and it's
33:52
Speaker 1: probably going to push someone further away.
33:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:56
Speaker 2: At the end of the book, I think you tie
33:58
Speaker 2: it all together really beautifully where you bring us back
34:01
Speaker 2: to where you were as a child, and I think
34:06
Speaker 2: you know, you point out that many of us are
34:08
Speaker 2: our own worst critic and we think of ourselves really,
34:13
Speaker 2: really harshly, even as young children. And I wanted to
34:18
Speaker 2: read out one of my favorite parts in the book,
34:21
Speaker 2: which is in the final chapter. So excuse me for
34:23
Speaker 2: quoting yourself at you. I used to look at the
34:27
Speaker 2: girl I was when Don'tcha was released and feel embarrassed.
34:32
Speaker 2: The more I challenge myself and my beliefs as I
34:34
Speaker 2: became an adult, the more I could look back at
34:37
Speaker 2: this girl and find her cute.
34:39
Speaker 3: I look at her and.
34:40
Speaker 2: I want to tell her that I'm sorry for being
34:42
Speaker 2: embarrassed by her, And that obviously struck a chord with me,
34:48
Speaker 2: and I think it's going to strike a chord with
34:49
Speaker 2: a lot of people who will relate to that. But
34:52
Speaker 2: how important was it to connect with your inner child
34:57
Speaker 2: during your recovery to get to where you are today?
35:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was everything. I think that's like
35:02
Speaker 3: the final piece of the puzzle, being able to be like, oh,
35:05
Speaker 3: and that's what this book's been really helpful with is Yeah,
35:08
Speaker 3: it's a shame thing. Like I did have a lot
35:09
Speaker 3: of shame about that little girl, and you know, the
35:12
Speaker 3: first time someone commented on my appearance and about my
35:16
Speaker 3: nose and I'd never thought about it, and then oh no, no,
35:18
Speaker 3: it's hanging over my head and I'm not the way
35:20
Speaker 3: that I want to look. And that's like a really
35:22
Speaker 3: important thing. So being able to like look at photos
35:26
Speaker 3: of yourself and not be embarrassed and not want to
35:28
Speaker 3: hide them, that that was like half for me to
35:30
Speaker 3: write as well. That was an emotional sentence to write
35:33
Speaker 3: because I was like, it is it is even hard
35:35
Speaker 3: to say that you're embarrassed, Like that feeling of embarrassment
35:38
Speaker 3: over someone that you were that you are. It's about
35:41
Speaker 3: accepting yourself now through the little child. And I think
35:44
Speaker 3: like a lot of therapy talks about you and a
35:47
Speaker 3: child and like talking to it nicely because yeah, that
35:49
Speaker 3: person still yeah, yeah, And I think that's what I mean.
35:54
Speaker 3: When people ask to see my nose before, I'm like, well,
35:57
Speaker 3: you're not allowed to be mean to that little girl.
35:59
Speaker 3: I am and I don't anymore. So I'm not going
36:01
Speaker 3: to let you look at the photo of me before
36:03
Speaker 3: and tell me that it looks a certain way because
36:05
Speaker 3: I'm still that person. And I think sometimes that's hard
36:09
Speaker 3: for people to wrap their heads around maybe, but yeah,
36:13
Speaker 3: I think like being able to because you still remember
36:17
Speaker 3: the feeling of what it was like to first not
36:19
Speaker 3: accept yourself. And I think because you can feel that
36:21
Speaker 3: it is something that you can change, like you can
36:23
Speaker 3: stay with you, but it can influence you to not
36:26
Speaker 3: perpetuate that, like not being nice to children and like
36:29
Speaker 3: realize that they're taking things on. You know, just because
36:31
Speaker 3: someone's ten or eleven doesn't mean shit's flowing off their back.
36:34
Speaker 3: Like yeah, they're smart children smart. So yeah, I'm glad
36:38
Speaker 3: you liked that bit.
36:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful.
36:40
Speaker 3: Yourself. Oh, I don't know if I really answer that question,
36:43
Speaker 3: but you made me emotional.
36:44
Speaker 2: No, I think you definitely did. And I think it's
36:48
Speaker 2: just a nice reminder for people if they are, you know,
36:52
Speaker 2: being hard on themselves or being their own worst critic,
36:54
Speaker 2: whether it's physically or emotionally or mentally, to think of
36:58
Speaker 2: yourself as a child and be like, it's a reminder
37:01
Speaker 2: that you're doing life for the first time and you're
37:04
Speaker 2: still that person. And that person was like innocent and
37:07
Speaker 2: pure and had good intentions and just wanted to like
37:10
Speaker 2: be happy, and like you can still be that person.
37:13
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it was beautiful.
37:14
Speaker 1: I think there's going to be so so many takeaways
37:17
Speaker 1: that people can get from this book. So I also
37:21
Speaker 1: just want to thank you for writing it, because this
37:24
Speaker 1: would have been a lot for someone to do and
37:26
Speaker 1: it's very very incredible of you. But I want to
37:30
Speaker 1: know what's your one takeaway that you really want people
37:33
Speaker 1: to take away from your book.
37:34
Speaker 3: Yes, my one takeaway is that thinking about food all
37:40
Speaker 3: the time is not normal. It shouldn't be normal. It's
37:45
Speaker 3: a prison. Know that you're in a prison if you're
37:47
Speaker 3: thinking mut all the time. I think that everyone is
37:50
Speaker 3: capable of going back to the way that they ate
37:52
Speaker 3: when they're a child. I know that eating issues can
37:55
Speaker 3: happen for people from a very very early age, but
37:58
Speaker 3: I think looking into the idea like your body's so smart.
38:02
Speaker 3: It knows what setway you meant to be. It knows
38:04
Speaker 3: how much it needs to eat. Someone to struggle with've
38:07
Speaker 3: being eating And that was probably one of the hardest
38:08
Speaker 3: things for me because it was very physical and it
38:11
Speaker 3: was this problem that I couldn't work out. I was like,
38:14
Speaker 3: I can't stop thinking about food. I can't, And I'm like,
38:18
Speaker 3: I'm not going to go back to being a kid
38:20
Speaker 3: where I don't think about it. I've already opened Pandora's box.
38:22
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna be able to get that back. So
38:24
Speaker 3: my biggest takeaway, and the biggest message that I hope
38:27
Speaker 3: at least one person takes away from the book, is
38:29
Speaker 3: that it is possible to not diet. It might you
38:33
Speaker 3: might have one hundred percent of the people in your
38:35
Speaker 3: orbit will be dieting. It's one way or another, watching
38:38
Speaker 3: what they eat, not eating certain things, and that's their prerogative.
38:41
Speaker 3: That everyone's entitled to eat what they do and don't
38:44
Speaker 3: want so I guess.
38:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
38:45
Speaker 3: The biggest takeaway would be know that dieting doesn't have
38:48
Speaker 3: to be normal, and just know that. Like I'm someone
38:51
Speaker 3: who was a hardcore dieter and I don't think about
38:54
Speaker 3: food at all anymore. It's crazy. I think that's very unusual.
38:59
Speaker 3: I don't think it should be on your usual. But
39:01
Speaker 3: every day I wake up and I'm gonna brag about it,
39:03
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry, but it's amazing. We've done the work. Yeah,
39:06
Speaker 3: I wake up and I don't I just think what
39:08
Speaker 3: am I gonna eat today? I don't even know. I
39:09
Speaker 3: don't care. I'll just eat when I'm hungry. I'll eat
39:11
Speaker 3: whatever's there, might feel like something super healthy, might feel
39:15
Speaker 3: like whatever is in front of me. But I've got
39:17
Speaker 3: other things to think about. That's beautiful.
39:19
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
39:20
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
39:21
Speaker 2: We finish all of our episodes with guests with the
39:25
Speaker 2: same question, and that is what's your biggest life lesson
39:30
Speaker 2: you've learned so far?
39:31
Speaker 3: Mine is that a smile is everything.
39:34
Speaker 2: Oh, it's beautiful, I really mean it.
39:37
Speaker 3: It feels spiritual. I'm not really spiritual person, but like
39:41
Speaker 3: when you walk past someone on the street and you
39:43
Speaker 3: smile like lights something up in my heart. I can't
39:45
Speaker 3: even describe. It's like a little something like very very deep,
39:48
Speaker 3: just gets a little warmth around it. It's a sparkling. Ye,
39:52
Speaker 3: there's something in it, guys. There's something spiritual about smiling.
39:57
Speaker 3: It sounds so enough and so like I wish we
39:59
Speaker 3: could old baker and eat it together. But you know
40:02
Speaker 3: what I mean, a lot of feelings. Yeah, someone young,
40:06
Speaker 3: a little baby, an old person and you just smile,
40:08
Speaker 3: and that's just like, it's the best for me.
40:11
Speaker 1: I'm done, Like, yes, yeah, I love especially when it's
40:15
Speaker 1: a stranger.
40:16
Speaker 3: Yes, we have no business smiling each other. We don't
40:20
Speaker 3: want anything from each other, and we're just smiling and beautiful.
40:22
Speaker 1: I would love for this to be everyone's takeaway, like
40:25
Speaker 1: on Today that you listen to this episode, smile at
40:28
Speaker 1: a stranger.
40:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's seriously special. And even if they don't smile back,
40:32
Speaker 3: they've clocked it, and a few more smiles and they'll start, Yeah,
40:36
Speaker 3: you're won.
40:37
Speaker 4: Smile for them to start smiling at other people.
40:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's beautiful.
40:41
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go a smile at everyone.
40:46
Speaker 2: Like a mannic smile at the same time. Yeah, fully
40:52
Speaker 2: for anybody who doesn't already follow you, where can they
40:56
Speaker 2: find you? And of course where can people find the book?
40:58
Speaker 3: Yes, so you can follow me at frooms on Instagram
41:00
Speaker 3: that's where I'm most vocal. That's rooms with three o's.
41:04
Speaker 3: And then you can get my book wherever you get books.
41:07
Speaker 3: I think it'll be at the airport bw all. Your
41:09
Speaker 3: indie retailers have really gotten behind it, which is great.
41:12
Speaker 3: So you just see it. It's yellow with a pink
41:14
Speaker 3: writing all over. Wanted us to be hot, gorgeous football
41:17
Speaker 3: links in the show notes. Of course, get the chicks
41:20
Speaker 3: around it.
41:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, well, thank you so much for coming on again.
41:25
Speaker 2: I don't think we need to repeat it, but it
41:27
Speaker 2: was an absolute pleasure. The book is wonderful. You should
41:30
Speaker 2: be so proud. And thanks to you chicks for having
41:33
Speaker 2: us in the ear holes. We love to be here.
41:35
Speaker 2: And thank you to MK made for making today's episode happen.
41:38
Speaker 4: Love It by Chicky Bide Chick