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What 36 Years as a Cop Did to His Faith | The Week in Bible Prophecy · The Week in Bible Prophecy

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  Speaker 1: The Week in Bible Prophecy, a Prophecy Watchers podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the program today. Manu Gonzalez here
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  Speaker 2: in studio, and I have with me a good friend,
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  Speaker 2: Michael Doyle. And Mike has written a book called Compton
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  Speaker 2: Don't Surf. And to me, he was a member of
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  Speaker 2: our church where I pastored in Lake Tahoe. And of course,
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  Speaker 2: you know, him and I got to be good friends
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  Speaker 2: while I was pastoring there. But now he's come out
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  Speaker 2: with this book, which I think is very, very fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: We had long talks about what his life was like
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  Speaker 2: and what it means to be a Christian and different things.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think that what he has written here
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  Speaker 2: is a very powerful testimony, especially in all of what
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  Speaker 2: we're seeing today in our culture about the whole law
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  Speaker 2: enforcement and police. And over the last few years, it's
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  Speaker 2: kind of been quite crazy. So, Mike, welcome to the program.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you, Mondo.
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  Speaker 2: So what I like to do here at the beginning,
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  Speaker 2: just for people, is you got this book, Compton Don't Surf. Compton,
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  Speaker 2: like the city of Compton. There it is. And I
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  Speaker 2: remember being in the 80s and 90s hearing about Compton
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  Speaker 2: and some of the rap music, which I know you love.
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  Speaker 2: And so give us a little background about you and
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  Speaker 2: where you came from. And Compton Don't Surf, explain the
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  Speaker 2: title for us.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I grew up in a... Predominantly, well, it was
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  Speaker 1: all white suburbia area. We had a Catholic neighborhood. As
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  Speaker 1: a matter of fact, we had 12 Catholic boys just
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  Speaker 1: in one cul-de-sac in my area. And we all surfed.
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  Speaker 1: We all played sports. And I just grew up swimming
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  Speaker 1: and surfing and worked for Disneyland.
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  Speaker 2: And this is all in Southern California, right?
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  Speaker 1: In Southern California. And then I went to Cal Poly,
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  Speaker 1: San Luis Obispo. And again, you know, was played water polo,
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  Speaker 1: swam and surfed a lot. And then, yeah, did his
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  Speaker 1: brief stint in the army before I went back on
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  Speaker 1: the reserves. And I was kind of looking for a job.
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  Speaker 1: And my brother said, well, why don't you become a
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  Speaker 1: police officer? And I've had always held the police officers
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  Speaker 1: at highest esteem. And whenever a police officer came around,
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  Speaker 1: I was very respectful of them. And I always noticed
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  Speaker 1: people treated them with a lot of respect and that
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  Speaker 1: they were here to help us. So I became a
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  Speaker 1: police officer. And back in the early 80s, in 82,
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  Speaker 1: we didn't have the internet. And my friend said, well,
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  Speaker 1: why don't you come to Compton with me? I'm also
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  Speaker 1: going there. And- They're, you know, they're looking for police officers.
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  Speaker 1: So not knowing what Compton was all about or L.A.,
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  Speaker 1: what L.A. was about, because I was a South Southern
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  Speaker 1: Orange County kid. I wasn't an L.A.
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  Speaker 2: Kid.
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  Speaker 1: I elected, I said, oh, sure, that sounds like a
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  Speaker 1: great time. And, of course, you know, they very quickly
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  Speaker 1: hired me. Because I had a college education and I
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  Speaker 1: was also in the service and I showed up for work.
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  Speaker 1: And that's where the story begins. And it's just turned
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  Speaker 1: my world upside down. And I said it all like
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  Speaker 1: in the back of the book. Yeah. And in the
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  Speaker 1: back of the book, I said in big letters, I
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  Speaker 1: wasn't prepared for the violent streets of Compton. I must
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  Speaker 1: change to survive. And that's what I go into is
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  Speaker 1: how I negatively changed to survive seeing the trauma and
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  Speaker 1: the horrors of working in a ghetto.
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  Speaker 2: You know, the stuff that you bring forth, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: obviously your style of writing is very engaging. And just
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  Speaker 2: the stories, I'm just sitting here like, This is unbelievable.
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  Speaker 2: Is this real? I mean, is this America? Where is
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  Speaker 2: this at? And to me, I found it interesting, again,
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  Speaker 2: the way that you weave, and maybe you can give
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  Speaker 2: us a little bit more of a background in that
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  Speaker 2: your life prior and then your life in, you've got
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  Speaker 2: two completely different worlds. And you mentioned the ghetto versus,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, whatever the the middle class
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  Speaker 2: or white class, whatever that is, you know, in the
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  Speaker 2: different places, but totally different world. And you're coming in
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  Speaker 2: to talk about the demographics as well, not just of
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  Speaker 2: the area, but also of the police department.
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  Speaker 1: Well, the demographics of the police department were was about 60, 40,
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  Speaker 1: 60 percent African-American and 40 percent white and some Hispanics.
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  Speaker 1: So it was mangled in there and stuff. And you're
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  Speaker 1: absolutely right. I mean, just getting to the police station,
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  Speaker 1: I was involved in numerous shootings just getting to work.
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  Speaker 1: And that's something you don't normally see as you go there.
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  Speaker 1: And I talk about it, just going there for my
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  Speaker 1: ride along to see if I even want to join
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  Speaker 1: this thing, this police department. Remember, we didn't have... We
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  Speaker 1: didn't have maps on our mobile phones. People drew you
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  Speaker 1: a little line and said, take this freeway, then take
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  Speaker 1: this off ramp, keep going. You'll see the police department
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  Speaker 1: on your left.
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  Speaker 3: They didn't tell me that I was going basically into
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  Speaker 3: a war zone and that I describe it as I
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  Speaker 3: was driving along and I'm stopped at stoplights and people
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  Speaker 3: are yelling at me and screaming and I'm hearing gunshots and,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Like I wrote in the book, when I
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  Speaker 3: finally made it to the police department, I felt like
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  Speaker 3: I had just.
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  Speaker 1: Run the gauntlet and I had made it. But it
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  Speaker 1: was very exciting. And that was the thing that lured
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  Speaker 1: me there was it was very exciting. And of course,
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  Speaker 1: my good friend was already working there. So that that helped, too.
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  Speaker 2: So so you were roughly what, mid 20s at this time?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, I was.
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  Speaker 2: 23.
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  Speaker 1: 23.
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  Speaker 2: So fresh out of college.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, fresh out of college. But, you know, like I
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  Speaker 1: wrote in the book in my sleeve, you know, if
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  Speaker 1: I could just read just a tiny bit, it said,
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  Speaker 1: you know, engines roaring, sirens blaring, tires squealing. I try
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  Speaker 1: to remain calm as we blast through the Debris strewn
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  Speaker 1: streets of Compton The vehicle stops The wanted gang member
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  Speaker 1: leaps from the vehicle And runs towards the government housing
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  Speaker 1: projects I jump out and begin the chase He suddenly
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  Speaker 1: turns and fires a shot at me From his cheap
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  Speaker 1: little pistol I grab my. 44 caliber gun And while
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  Speaker 1: on a dead run Fire shovel shots at him He
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  Speaker 1: misses I miss He drops a gun After hearing my
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  Speaker 1: gun go off Lighting a cigarette and reloading at my
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  Speaker 1: patrol vehicle, I reflect on what a blonde-haired, blue-eyed surfer
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  Speaker 1: is doing in the ghetto chasing and shooting at gang
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  Speaker 1: members in the projects.
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  Speaker 2: In the projects.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that was the other thing is how
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  Speaker 1: it physically and mentally changed me. I was a two-sport
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  Speaker 1: athlete in college, water polo and swimming. Then at the army,
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  Speaker 1: I won every physical award. When I went to the academy,
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  Speaker 1: I won the physical fitness award. Within six months, I
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  Speaker 1: was smoking, smoking. And when people hear that, they're like, you?
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  Speaker 1: I go, yeah, yeah, I was smoking. And then of
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  Speaker 1: course the drinking came after that.
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  Speaker 2: So let's talk about that because, so you come in,
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  Speaker 2: as you just mentioned, you're, You're just a young kid
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  Speaker 2: just enjoying life. And then you get put into this.
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  Speaker 2: And now because of the nature of the work and
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  Speaker 2: the area and all that, it begins to change you.
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  Speaker 2: And so talk about that because obviously you're a believer.
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  Speaker 2: You're a Christian. At the time, were you a Christian
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  Speaker 2: at the time? Explain that for people. I was.
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  Speaker 1: And we were going to, of course, always go into church.
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  Speaker 1: At that time, I had left the Catholic Church and
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  Speaker 1: went more of a Baptist church. And so I was
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  Speaker 1: pretty solid. And as I went there, in the 80s,
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  Speaker 1: everybody at the police department smoked. We had a lot
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  Speaker 1: of Vietnam veterans coming back. Everybody was military. Everybody smoked
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  Speaker 1: in briefing. And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know,
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  Speaker 1: how are these guys going to chase people? They're smoking.
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  Speaker 1: And until I started going to homicide scenes and really
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  Speaker 1: grisly ones, and they started smoking to actually mask the
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  Speaker 1: smell of the body. Oh, wow. And then they also
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  Speaker 1: taught me a technique to put Vicks Vapor Rub under
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  Speaker 1: my nose to do this. But while on training, I
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  Speaker 1: went to a very grisly one that I wrote in
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  Speaker 1: the book where my training officer who was special forces
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  Speaker 1: army and and he smoked. And I wrote about that, too,
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  Speaker 1: when my first cigarette was, he handed it to me
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  Speaker 1: after there was a family, a guy had killed his
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  Speaker 1: entire family as we were going through the house and
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  Speaker 1: then killed himself. And he said, you know, do you smoke?
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  Speaker 1: And I go, no, but hey, I could use one.
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  Speaker 1: And then I talk about that, how I started smoking.
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  Speaker 1: And of course, what happens when you never smoke? Well,
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  Speaker 1: you become dizzy. And I started getting dizzy. And so
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  Speaker 1: I tossed it out the window and then it came
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  Speaker 1: back through the window and actually ended up in his
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  Speaker 1: crotch and started burning his pants. And I was fighting
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  Speaker 1: because the guy was huge. The guy was one of
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  Speaker 1: the biggest human beings I'd seen. And I thought he's
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  Speaker 1: going to kill me. I was just a skinny little
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  Speaker 1: white kid, you know, that surfed.
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  Speaker 2: When did you start really start seeing the hardening happen
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  Speaker 2: or the kind of the destruction of innocence that you
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  Speaker 2: had prior to that? Because obviously you're coming into like
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  Speaker 2: what you already described. What stands out to you as
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  Speaker 2: one of the things that really changed your world, especially
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  Speaker 2: in the beginning?
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  Speaker 1: I think looking at, and this is why it's important
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  Speaker 1: to understand police officers, we see victims like at the moment,
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  Speaker 1: at the scene. And after seeing victim after victim after victim,
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  Speaker 1: shooting victims, assault victims, rape victims, after seeing that, you
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  Speaker 1: start getting really hardened. And then when you do catch
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  Speaker 1: the suspect, cause we'd go look for them. When you
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  Speaker 1: do catch the suspect, you know, you're upset, you're human.
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  Speaker 1: You're not a robot. You just saw a victim and now,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you catch the suspect and you know, they're predators.
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  Speaker 1: And once you catch the, the, the, the, the suspect,
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's hard to turn off your anger. And I
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  Speaker 1: remember going to a lot of scenes where officers had
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  Speaker 1: been killed. And even later on when I was with Fresno,
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  Speaker 1: multiple officers killed at one scene. Or I went to
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  Speaker 1: a mass murder scene in Fresno where, you know, he
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  Speaker 1: had killed seven of his kids and two of his
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  Speaker 1: own daughters. You know, it's hard not to... It's hard...
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  Speaker 1: not to be hardened. And I started seeing myself getting
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  Speaker 1: hardened because I actually started saying, I really don't want
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  Speaker 1: to be a Christian because I don't want to feel that.
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to feel anguish. I don't want to
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  Speaker 1: feel like, you know, turn the other cheek. I didn't
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  Speaker 1: want to feel that love your enemies. I didn't want
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  Speaker 1: to love my enemy. And I wanted to hate my enemy.
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  Speaker 1: And I always wanted to be Just mean and aggressive
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  Speaker 1: because I didn't want to be the nice guy who
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  Speaker 1: got killed because I let my guard down.
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  Speaker 2: You know, that's to me super important as I was reading,
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  Speaker 2: and certainly as you and I have talked over the years,
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  Speaker 2: the challenge of how does a Christian who is, like
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  Speaker 2: you just said, we have all these commandments about showing
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  Speaker 2: mercy and kindness and love to those that are wicked.
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  Speaker 2: How does that work in practical ways on the force
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  Speaker 2: going out? Because I think somebody like that, what you
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  Speaker 2: just described, who's willing to obviously murder many people, including
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  Speaker 2: his family, those people, you know, bullies only understand bigger bullies.
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  Speaker 1: Correct.
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  Speaker 2: And so you have to, I'm glad you brought up
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  Speaker 2: that Christianity was challenged. You had this challenge there between
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  Speaker 2: what God would want of you or what the Bible says,
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  Speaker 2: but how do we make that in reality when I
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  Speaker 2: have to come up to this bully who's just murdered
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  Speaker 2: people and I got to take him down or he's
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  Speaker 2: resisting or whatever, and just unpack that a little bit
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  Speaker 2: for us because, and how did you deal with it?
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  Speaker 1: You hit the nail on the head and that's fantastic
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  Speaker 1: understanding what you just said. And that's the conflict. That's
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  Speaker 1: the huge conflict that police officers face right now is
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  Speaker 1: you see victim after victim, and then you're supposed to
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  Speaker 1: show compassion or you're supposed to suddenly turn it off.
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  Speaker 1: And I tell people we're not robots. We're human. We
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  Speaker 1: have human emotions. We have, you know, we can try
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  Speaker 1: and suppress it as much as we can. But, you know,
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  Speaker 1: when there's a predator out there and we're searching that
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  Speaker 1: predator and We need to have the mindset that it's
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  Speaker 1: not compassion. We're hunting him. We're going after him. That's
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  Speaker 1: what tears us up, Mondo. That's why I started drinking.
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  Speaker 1: We drink a lot after work. They call it choir practice.
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  Speaker 1: We didn't have psychologists back there back then. Our psychologist
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  Speaker 1: was ourselves when we sat around the police cars. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: police are personal cars and drank beer and and talked
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  Speaker 1: about things. We'd be in a shooting with a suspect
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  Speaker 1: and we had no one really to turn to at
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  Speaker 1: that time. We would we'd go to a park that
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  Speaker 1: we knew was secure. And, you know, we would drink
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  Speaker 1: and we'd talk about it and stuff. It's it's. the
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  Speaker 1: biggest conflict of police officers are faced with now. How
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  Speaker 1: do you suppress this type of stuff? I couldn't come
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  Speaker 1: home and tell Bonnie what I had seen that day
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  Speaker 1: or what just took place on my shift. There's no
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  Speaker 1: one to talk to. And other than other police officers,
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  Speaker 1: a lot of the police officers that some funerals that
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  Speaker 1: I was going to were Christians and they had, let
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  Speaker 1: their guard down. They had used compassion on the suspect
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  Speaker 1: and the suspect killed them. And I remember always going,
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  Speaker 1: while I'm in law enforcement, I don't want to be
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  Speaker 1: a Christian. I don't want to have compassion. I want
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  Speaker 1: to be as hard and as tough as I possibly
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  Speaker 1: can because I want to survive. It wasn't until my
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  Speaker 1: friends started saying, you know, you've changed. You've You're a
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  Speaker 1: different personality. It's like you have no remorse when you, like,
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  Speaker 1: arrest people. And you're heavy-handed. And that's when I started seeing, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I need a change. But the biggest change was my neighbor,
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  Speaker 1: who was a Christian, they would hand me a tape
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  Speaker 1: of Firefighters for Christ. And it was a cassette tape.
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  Speaker 1: And it was Bob Vernon from LAPD who talked like
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  Speaker 1: a police officer. He was, he was a police officer,
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  Speaker 1: but related man to man. And I started listening to
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  Speaker 1: those tapes on the way to work. And that drastically
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  Speaker 1: changed me. Like I, I need to get back. I
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  Speaker 1: need to get back to the Lord. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And that's good that you have, you know, obviously you,
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  Speaker 2: other Christian police officers in similar situations that are also
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  Speaker 2: dealing with this. You know, when we look at our,
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  Speaker 2: when we look at the world over the past, you know, five, six,
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  Speaker 2: seven years, you know, we've seen the, all the stuff
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  Speaker 2: that happened in COVID, the riots, and of course the
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  Speaker 2: anti-police movement, et cetera. And, you know, if you were
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: to speak to the typical person or the average person,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: you know, being where you were, all of us, many
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: of us out here, we're in our comfortable chairs, whatever,
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  Speaker 2: and then we see something on television. You know, you
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: see something with ice right now. You know, ice shot somebody.
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  Speaker 2: And then it's really easy for me to make a
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: judgment sitting in my chair, in my nice comfy chair
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: with nobody around. You know, what do you want people,
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  Speaker 2: help us understand and what would you want from, what
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: message would you give for people out there that what
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: might give an instant reaction to, you know, again, maybe what,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: what the media presents as an, Oh, somebody there, they
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  Speaker 2: are shooting somebody again. Well, what's, what's the right way
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  Speaker 2: for me to evaluate that?
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  Speaker 1: The best way to evaluate that is take a breath,
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  Speaker 1: know that the media has an agenda and that not everything,
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  Speaker 1: what you're seeing is really what happened. I've been on,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: many tactical units, including the SWAT team, but I've bought
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: dope undercover. I've been on numerous high profile incidents and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the media is so far away from what it really
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: was and what really happened. And oftentimes what you're seeing
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  Speaker 1: is a short clip of what took place afterwards. Like
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  Speaker 1: for instance, you brought up the ice shooting and then
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't until They start rewinding the camera back a
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  Speaker 1: little bit and they go, oh, that's why. Oh, that's
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  Speaker 1: what happened. But see, they don't show the entire video
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  Speaker 1: or the entire clip. Most, and I got to give
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  Speaker 1: the Christian nation, I'll call them, kudos because they really
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: back law enforcement and they really back the military and
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: they understand. They understand us. They understand that that we
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: have just an incredible job to do. It's a small
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: segment that gets a lot of airtime. And so what
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  Speaker 1: I'd want them to know is when you hear a newscast,
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  Speaker 1: hold your opinion and investigate it a little bit more.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, we do make mistakes. There's no doubt about it,
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  Speaker 1: but we're human. But no police officer ever And my
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  Speaker 1: entire 36 years really wanted to shoot somebody. Nobody ever
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  Speaker 1: wanted to. It was last straw and they go through
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  Speaker 1: so much trauma when they pull their weapons and fire
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  Speaker 1: at someone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And this is, this is the typical thing where, again,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: the media is looking for clicks or views. And like
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  Speaker 2: you said, you know, you could go pick out the
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: worst person in any category and And then they take
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that person and they say that this is what is
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  Speaker 2: typified of all of the people in that particular category.
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  Speaker 2: And that's just, again, that's just false thinking. But what
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  Speaker 2: I found was the emotions that react. And I saw
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: this with the media and I saw somebody react and
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, there they go again. And I was like, well,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that's interesting. And it was interesting in my own mind
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: that the emotion of that person I was like, oh,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: oh no, what happened? Like, you know, did I do something?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: And then, like you said, then they showed the body
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: cam and you're like, if that person would have waited
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: and said, well, let's wait and see the full story
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: before we give a reaction or a comment. Or, because
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I think people put in their heart like, oh, there
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: they go again. When in reality, once the information came out,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, I missed the context. Yeah, context is
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: super important. You have a chapter, you know, called losing
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: faith in there. And, you know, describe that because there's
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: two things that I see happening at once. Once is
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: your own spiritual journey as you, and you talked, you know,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: about the firefighters for Christ, which began to help you.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: But then also, you know, how do you, how do you,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: do you lose faith like in humanity? Cause you're seeing
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the depravity of humanity. And how do you, how do you,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: did you ever come back to the, to the point
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: of having a little bit of compassion? Are you safe
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: compassion for later or what?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That's very interesting. Good question. As far as absolutely losing
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: faith in humanity, when you're seeing this day in and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: day out, there wasn't any easy day. It was just
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a war zone. And that's why my friends really wanted
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: me to write the book. I didn't want to write
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this book. It brought up too many scars. I'm sorry,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: opened too many wounds. I didn't really want it to,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: but they go, no, Mike, you have a story because
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you weren't from LA. You were just an innocent white
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: kid who surfed, ended up in the ghetto and just
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in the projects. And you need to write about how
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it changed you and how you changed, how you changed back.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: But Absolutely losing faith in humanity. And then the other
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: part was I've convinced myself I couldn't feel compassion to people.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I had to remain tough and hardened because I could
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: process just the horrific events that were going on and
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: that I was seeing and that I was going to.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: dead police officers, you know, rape victims and just horrific crimes,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: crimes that were going on. But when I said losing faith,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and I did, of course, I did. And I made
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: that point clear that I didn't reject Christ. I just
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: lost faith that, yeah, I don't think religion's got it correct.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It's that's for somebody else. That's for other people. but
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it's not for me right now. And I shelved it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I just put it on
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: a shelf and said, when I'm, when I'm done, I'll
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: come back and grab it. So it was my way
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: of carpent.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Compartmentalizing.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you. That was the word just so that
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I could handle this stuff. Yeah.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, and so as you're, you know, 36 years,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: long time, And so you're seeing yourself change. People are
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: making people are noticing, you know, the change, the hardness
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: that you need to just simply to do the job.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: How did you handle that coming home? I mean, did
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: that transfer over? Were you able to turn it off?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Were you able to show compassion to the family, to
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the wife, to others? Or did you find that difficult?
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's extremely difficult. I couldn't discuss this with anybody.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: You know, I as my sister recalls, it's funny, your friends.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: And your family members all point to certain incidents that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: take place. And they go, yeah, we knew you were
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: having a problem. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize I
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: was having a problem. And she said, oh, yeah, they
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: were having a birthday party for my, you know, and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: at my house, my wife was there and everything. And
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I stepped outside and I was having a cigarette. My
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: sister goes, you know, what's going on? And I said, well,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: this just took place. It was a guy who had
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: killed his family, a different family, but two of his kids.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: And I go, you know, I spent hours on that.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, some of these, you know, scenes, you spend
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: hours and you spend hours looking at the victims. And
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: then you can't come home. And I couldn't come home
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and tell my wife, hey, this just took place. I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: could go and just like any other police officer who's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: going to be watching this could go into one horrific
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: event after another, after another, after another. It stays with you.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I was in Hawaii and I sat down at a
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: table with a friend of mine who was a police
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: officer and he's recalling incidents 30 years earlier. I mean,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: we have this for the rest of our lives. All
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: this memory, you know, When I drove around Fresno, I
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: used to drive around and go, oh, yeah, there was
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: a homicider there. Oh, yeah, we shot that guy over there.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: And just pointing to intersections and housing areas and stuff.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And my wife's like, how do you drive around a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: town now? And I go, that's why we're always on alert.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: We know what happens. So, no. No. It was very difficult.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And now they have psychologists that you can talk to.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Fresno PD actually had a chaplain. So you could go
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: down there and talk to a chaplain. That's huge. I mean,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and that was very controversial. We actually had a chaplain's
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: office at the police department, and that was groundbreaking. So
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: police officers should go down there and actually... sit and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: talk to the chaplain. Except one of our chaplains, who
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: later became a police officer, was still preaching, but he
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: was also a police officer, killed his lover's husband, tried
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: to blame it on another police officer, and he went
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: off to prison for 22 years for murder. So it
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: changed him too.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, changed him too.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: That seems to be the challenge is being changed too much, right?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And so again, you know, just the Compton Don't Surf,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Mike Doyle, get it on Amazon so people can check
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it out. Again, you'll find it extremely fascinating and engaging.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: And you have a lot of humor in there, which
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: is very, very good as well. And let's go back
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: for a moment. So here you are living... You know,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: you're working. Was there any time at all that maybe
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: you had somebody who you arrested or whatever, and you
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: came in with a certain hardness? but yet that gave you,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: did you have anybody that you felt like, okay, this
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: person is truly sorry. And then you felt, okay, there
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: is a hope for redemption for this person. Or did
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: you just close it off?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: No, for the most part, close it off. But there
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: were several times, there were several times that I would
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: arrest somebody and then I would help out his family.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: And so race funds and police officers are very giving.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I know that doesn't sound right, but police officers are
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: amazing as far as giving up their own funds. I've
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: seen multiple times where police officers just give cash out
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of their own pockets to help families. Look, this kid
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: didn't have a bed. Oh, look, this kid doesn't have
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: a Christmas present. Or, hey, his dad just went to
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: prison or his family just went in the hospital. And
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: we would supply the family with Christmas gifts. We do
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: have that type of compassion. And there was one incident
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: where I did arrest somebody And I did give him
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: a break and I did get enough donations to house
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: to buy beds because their family didn't have beds. So
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: all the police officers chipped in and we got them
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: actual beds. And then we went to a store that
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: we knew the owner and he gave us a good
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: deal on the beds. So there is a great deal
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: of compassion, but it is few and far between. especially
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: against the suspects.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And this is why it's important because again,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: as you mentioned, there's some that are obviously very dedicated
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: to supporting law enforcement, which as you just described, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: in the whole rage of the anti-police movement or defund
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: the police here, you're telling stories about how the police
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: are getting together to help families, you know, and a
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: lot of that is left out where there is a
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: reality of this balance. Again, to me, it's only supernatural
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: that you could have the ability to balance this out
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: when you're dealing with stuff like this. It really is
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: a calling. You know, in this, here you are now,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: of course, you're writing about it. You're thinking it back
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: over 36 years. How is your understanding of forgiveness, how
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: was it shaped from all the way before through the
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: 36 years and then even now? I mean, how long
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: have you been retired?
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: I've been retired for 10 years now. Okay. Well, it's
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: funny you talk about forgiveness because, and you were a
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: great person to talk with because we could just, you
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: could really relate. Yeah, I am so thankful. I really am.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I pray every night and I just ask for forgiveness.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: You've talked to me at length about forgiveness because I
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: go to those verses where it says, love your enemies.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And I've told you straight up, yeah, I can't do that.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I'm not wired that way.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I'm more of like the crusader who know we're going
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: to go to war and we're going to go fight.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of wired that way. But I think daily
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: devotionals have really helped. And it's really helped clamp down
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of the anger. Not only anger with the suspect,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: anger at the communities that back the suspects. You know,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: it's not backing the police officers. It's just a lot
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: of anger. And I think a lot of police officers
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: have that anger. And if I don't read daily devotionals
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: to try and clamp that down and, you know, tamp
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: it down, I'm sorry, tamp it down, then it just
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: starts going spiral. You know, you just start going down
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: this hill. And that was the other thing I pointed
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: out in the book is the amount of police suicides,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the amount of police suicides is just astronomical. I mean,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: not only are police officers shot and killed at an
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: alarming rate in this country, but people forget that the
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: suicides are just as equally horrible. And we were dealing
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: with that too. I mean, come to work and Oh,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: so-and-so killed himself. What? You know, how do you, now
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: how do you do it, right? How do you deal
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: with that? So I would say ultimately devotionals and having
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: a church family. But even when I go to church,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: other than the Tahoe Community Church, because we like shooting.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: But a lot of the other churches, they have no
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: understanding on what really goes on.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's, you know, of course, our church
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: up there, pretty small. But yet you would think that,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, maybe some do, some don't. But
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: the idea of any large church would have a specific
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: ministry that would be dedicated to law enforcement, you know,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: or military or whatever. Just because that's a whole different world.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've never been in the military, never done
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: any of that. And so my only experience has been,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: you know, through pastoring and different things and getting exposed.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Of course, your book is very helpful. You know, even
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: some of the stories that you and I talked about,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: reading the book was like, oh man, we never talked
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: about this. And it just opened up. It opened up.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I wish I would have had the book, honestly, before.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And then been able to chat because to say, okay,
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: now I'm just getting a very bigger glimpse into truly
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: what you're coming to the table with and trying to
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: puzzle through. Of course, as anything, education, I would love
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: to be more educated about the whole situation, about what
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: it was like. And certainly that probably would have helped me, again,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: chat with you in a better way, a more intelligent way,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I would say. You know, for those, you know, you
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: dedicated the book to Kevin Burrell and James McDonald. And
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: so talk about that dedication and then, again, to their
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: memory and how that shaped you.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Kevin, which was the black officer that was killed, and
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: James was the white officer, they were partners. Kevin was
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: just an amazing person. An amazing kid. Grew up around
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: the police department. Just had a positive outlook on everything.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Quite different than mine, my attitude. And James McDonald did also.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't know him as well, but I knew Kevin better.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: That again is... I went down for the funeral and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: of course... met with all my friends. And it shapes
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: you in that, for me, in a negative way. It reconfirmed,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: don't be compassionate with anyone. It means this is for real.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: You could die out on the street. And I remember
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: having conversations with my partners going, whatever happens, you never
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: let me lay on that pavement. I don't care how
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: dead I am. You scoop me up, throw me in
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the backseat of a police car, and take me to
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the hospital. Somehow, someway, pronounce me at the hospital, but
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: do not leave me on a pavement. And we would
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: have pacts between friends saying, I got you. I got you.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: And if I die, this is my wife and my kids.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: and things like that. So it changes you. And to me,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: it changed me in a negative light in that it
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: was horrific, but in a positive light to reaffirm my
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: faith and make sure that I was still in the
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Lord's fold and that I had recommitted my life to
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Christ and that I had asked for forgiveness and repented.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: So I think in a positive way, that's how it
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: affected me. In a negative way, it was like, okay,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: you know, this is for real. These are my friends
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: dying out there.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: It's sobering. And, you know, the Bible says a lot
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: about respecting elders, respecting those that have gone before us,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: and those that, again, that are still alive. In fact,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: in the Old Testament, you know, if a gray-haired man walks,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: comes into the room, everybody's supposed to stand up. You know,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: it's very, very serious about respecting those that are older
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: and wiser than us. And so with that theme, here
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: you are, you know, 52, something like that. You're, you know,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: 52 years old.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'm almost 70.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: You're almost 70. Okay. You're almost 70, but you're a
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: great tennis player. I know that. So, so what do
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: you say then? You know, there's people that are coming up.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: What do you say to the young people? The 23-year-old Mike,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: you know, or those that are considering, hey, I want
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to be a police officer. My dad was in law
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: enforcement or whatever. I want to go and I want
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: to protect people. What do you say with all of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: your wisdom and your experience? What do you say to
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: that person, you know, just in the sense of the job,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: but secondly, from a spiritual perspective, how that they don't,
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: how they can protect their own soul in the process?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Well, first they have to use their resources. If they're
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: going to go in there, know that you're going to change.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Know that change is inevitable. It will happen. You will
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: not be the same person going into the police academy
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: because the police academy is book, book learning. You do
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: some fun scenarios. You get to shoot. And it's nothing
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: like what happens the minute you hit the streets. It's college.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And suddenly you get into a patrol car with a
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: training officer who's normally very bitter and been around for
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: a long time and has seen a lot of rookies
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: come and go. Like when I was a training officer,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of the officers go in there with such
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: an idyllic view of how they're going to help people.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And so did I, and so did everybody that I
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: went to the academy with. And then you go into
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: police and you realize this isn't for me. This is
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: a life I really don't want. And the honest ones will,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: like my friend's son, he goes, you should join the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: police department. He goes, I don't want the life you had.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see what you saw. I don't
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: want to have the life. What I would tell them
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: is use the resources. The resources like the chaplaincy that
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: they have at police departments now. The psychologists that are
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: there right now that are available to them. Like I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: tell my own son, who is a police officer, which
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I tried to discourage as much as I could, but
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: it wasn't until he started working shifts and seeing some
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: horrendous stuff that He goes, oh, now I know what
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: now I actually would say now I know why you're
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: cranky all the time. And now I know why you
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: were never, never around. You're always on call outs. You're
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: always on on stuff and. And know that it's going
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: to affect the family. Just be aware and then have
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: people that you can talk with. I honestly don't think
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: it's healthy to talk to your wife. about some of
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the horrific scenes that you've seen. That's a little too
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: much for someone to absorb. But there are resources available now.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: There's resources available now that weren't available back then.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: You know, talk about that too, because you brought up,
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: you know, going and seeing the psychologist. And I should
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: have mentioned this earlier, but, you know, in your own journey,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: you went in to get a master's of psychology. I mean,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: you pursued that. And what led you there and how
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: did that help you in your, again, just in processing everything?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I realized that I was in a medical unit
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: and my commander was a psychologist. And so I talked
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: with him and keep talking with him. And then I thought,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: you know, he goes, you really ought to become one.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: You really ought to study psychology so that you can
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: help other police officers. And so I went. to Pepperdine
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and I was getting my master's degree in psychology. And
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: I wrote about this in the book and they, one
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: day they asked, okay, relate a story that really changed you.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: And I told a story and it shocked the class.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are people who are becoming psychologists. They're
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in their master's degree and the psychologist and the psychologist said, well,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: That is the most horrific story I think I've ever heard.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Please don't tell any more. And I go like, well,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: aren't we studying psychology? And he said, yes, but we
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: don't want to hear stories like that anymore. And there
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: was a couple of girls that had to leave the
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: room and one was kind of crying. And I said, well,
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: that was like my first week as a police officer.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: And they were like, no way. we're not set up
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: for that. We, these people can't, can't understand that lifestyle can,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: can't absorb that. And so the people who we, I
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: thought was going to help ended up saying, it's just
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: too violent. It's just too grisly. We don't want to
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: hear about this anymore. So it was, it was difficult. Yeah.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I imagine that As you mentioned, I'm sure
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: the psychologists in the departments or whatever, you know, they're
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: special because they are dealing, you know, specialists maybe even
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: in that regard.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: They are. And so are the chaplains too. But it's
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: absolutely not necessary. I was afraid to go to some
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: of my pastors because if I started talking, they would think, Oh,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: my gosh. I have a, I don't know, a congregant
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that is kind of, he's going off the rails. But
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: it's not really necessary to be a police chaplain, but
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: be like yourself. Hey, let's go golf. Let's talk. Or, hey,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: let's play tennis. Hey, let's talk.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, be an activist. I know in our conversations, which, again,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: you know, there's theological truth of, you know, forgiveness and
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: restoration and grace and mercy and compassion. And those are
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: all real theological things that obviously God commands us to do.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: And those are the ideal. And what was interesting, again,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: in my own conversations with you is, is you know
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: you have these hard and fast black and white truths
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: and then you sharing some of the stories and going
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: and for me as a pastor going how do i
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: get in his world and understand the dynamics rather than
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: just saying well you know it doesn't matter what the
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: story is you need to forgive i mean that to
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: me that's just that's just i'm i don't know unloving
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: unkind whatever it's just it's uncompassionate from a pastoral perspective
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: but to say you know, and I always felt like
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: the Lord say, you know, get into Mike's world and understand, yes,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: the truths are there, but understand, try to understand where
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: he's coming from and how he's wrestling and putting those
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: into practice. It's way different than me. And I felt that,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: you know, even in the book, you described this process
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: and journey and, you know, kind of, kind of in closing,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: closing us out here, you know, you wrote this book,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: the book, maybe wrap it up for the audience in,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: in what do you want them to walk away with
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: from the book?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: The biggest thing is an understanding of what police officers
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: see every day and what they go through. And that
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: even seeing horrific crimes like, like that one, one guy
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: who killed seven of his children and, and then, and
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: two of his own daughters. So seven grandchildren, that was
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: a horrific mass murder. I was there 15 hours a
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: day for three days. So you're there going, seeing that
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: for 15 hours, going to scenes where several police officers
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: had been gunned down and, and had been killed. Again,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: I was there for, you know, 15 hours, 16 hours
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: a day running, running, not helping run the operation. And,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Horrific plane crashes where victims are everywhere. I remember one
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: in Fresno where I was actually walking around and I
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: saw a plane crash. And I was the only one there.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And I was actually at 2.30 in the morning running
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: around the plane crash trying to find the victims. amongst
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: the burning plane. And I'm trying to find the victim
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: and the victims. And then you have to deal with
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: the aftermath. You have to deal with the families. My biggest,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: what I want to get at, What I want people
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: to get from this is an understanding that these officers,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: and there's a reason why there's such a huge shortage
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: of officers right now. No one's signing up anymore. It's
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: just people are saying, I don't want to live that life.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. But to help the
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: police officers and, you know, pray for them. And know
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: that they're going through horrific events every night.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, amen to that. And I think that's what I
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: see is, you know, the largest, I mean, the greatest
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: majority of law enforcement is there for the right reason.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: And yeah, there's always a couple of bad apples in everything,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: but don't allow those bad apples to basically categorize all
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: the rest of them because all these people who are
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: out there risking their own lives, you're seeing your friends,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: your partners perish in the job. all the wicked and evilness.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: And the goal is, you mentioned this in the book,
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: is to protect people from wolves, from predators. And that
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: really is the goal. And so Mike, I really appreciate
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: your time. So glad you wrote the book. And for
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: those listening, go to Amazon, go to amazon.com. You can
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: see again, Michael Doyle, Compton don't surf like the city
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: of Compton doesn't surf like Mike did in his life.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: And so check out the book again, great Christmas present
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: for others. I think This could be an encouragement to, again,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: all law enforcement families or anybody that needs to understand.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: But I imagine even your fellow police officers would love
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: to just have to see their story because they're going
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: to identify with their story being shared in so many ways.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: So thank you, everybody, for listening today for this program. Again,
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: it's been it's been good and we will catch you
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: next time.