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Lava Tubes on Venus, Elon Musk’s Lunar Pivot & Titan’s Mysterious Origins | Space Nuts:... · Space News Today

• 0:00
  Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is
• 0:02
  Space Nuts, where we talk astronomy and
• 0:04
  space science. My name is Andrew Dunley.
• 0:07
  It's great to have your company yet
• 0:09
  again. And if you're a brand new
• 0:11
  listener, welcome along. Hope you enjoy
• 0:13
  it and hope you stick around. On this
• 0:16
  episode, we will be focusing on a whole
• 0:19
  bunch of different types of stuff. Uh
• 0:22
  the first one is a new paper that's been
• 0:24
  released suggesting that there are lava
• 0:27
  tubes on Venus. How do they know? We
• 0:30
  can't even see it. Well, they've got
• 0:32
  some evidence that they think points the
• 0:33
  finger at Venus's lava tubes. Uh Elon
• 0:37
  Musk, who has for many years been
• 0:39
  saying, "I'm going to send people to
• 0:42
  Mars and they're going to live there."
• 0:44
  He's changed his mind. He's got a new
• 0:46
  target. We'll tell you about that. Uh
• 0:48
  China has tested a reusable booster and
• 0:51
  Saturn's moon Titan might have
• 0:54
  previously been two moons. We'll talk
• 0:56
  about all of that on this episode of
• 0:59
  Space Nuts.
• 1:00
  >> 15 seconds. Guidance is internal. 10 9
• 1:05
  Ignition sequence start.
• 1:06
  >> Space nuts.
• 1:07
  >> 5 4 3 2
• 1:10
  >> 1 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 1
• 1:12
  >> Space Nuts.
• 1:13
  >> Astronauts report. It feels good.
• 1:16
  >> And joining us again in his spare time
• 1:18
  um is Professor Fred Watson, astropher
• 1:21
  at large. Hello Fred.
• 1:23
  >> Hello Andrew. Um very good to see you.
• 1:25
  And I see that the launches are going
• 1:27
  well behind your head there. It looks
• 1:29
  great.
• 1:29
  >> Yes, that's that's a photo I took inside
• 1:32
  the sphere in Las Vegas. We watched a a
• 1:34
  presentation there uh about a year ago
• 1:37
  now. And uh one of the the pictures was
• 1:41
  all these rockets taking off. Um it it
• 1:44
  it looked so nice. I took the photo and
• 1:46
  there they are. Yeah, a bunch of them.
• 1:48
  That's humanity leaving Earth because we
• 1:50
  made such a mess of it they couldn't
• 1:52
  leave here anymore. That's what that
• 1:53
  represents.
• 1:55
  It's um yeah quite a it was a really
• 1:58
  interesting story and people people came
• 2:00
  back to visit Earth as tourists because
• 2:02
  and they had to wear spac suits because
• 2:04
  you couldn't breathe here anymore.
• 2:06
  >> Um that's a really good segue into one
• 2:08
  of our stories today. So
• 2:10
  >> yeah,
• 2:10
  >> well thought.
• 2:12
  >> Yes. Well, let's let's get started
• 2:14
  because uh our very first story involves
• 2:16
  a planet not unlike Earth at some time
• 2:19
  in its history, but it's suffering a
• 2:22
  runaway greenhouse effect and it is now
• 2:25
  um unlivable.
• 2:27
  But we are trying so hard to learn as
• 2:29
  much as we can about Venus and because
• 2:32
  it's shrouded in cloud and you can't see
• 2:35
  the surface, we we have to use um
• 2:37
  different techniques to to see what's
• 2:39
  going on. And a new paper has just been
• 2:42
  published suggesting that there are lava
• 2:45
  tubes on this particular world. This
• 2:48
  should not come as a surprise because we
• 2:49
  know it's got so many volcanoes. We
• 2:52
  don't know if they're still active, but
• 2:54
  we know it's got it's got more than
• 2:56
  anywhere else, hasn't it? It has. You're
• 2:59
  absolutely right. Um it's, if I remember
• 3:01
  rightly, the numbers 2,000. Gosh.
• 3:04
  >> Uh for Earth, it's something like 1,400.
• 3:07
  I think that's um from statistics I
• 3:09
  wrote down for a book once once upon a
• 3:12
  time. Um the um uh but but you're
• 3:16
  absolutely right. We simply don't know
• 3:18
  whether any of those uh 2,000 volcanoes
• 3:20
  are actually still active. Uh we you and
• 3:23
  I have spoken about this before and
• 3:25
  there's sort of circumstantial evidence
• 3:27
  that there might still be activity or
• 3:29
  there might have been activity within
• 3:31
  the within the last million years which
• 3:34
  sounds like a rather large window except
• 3:36
  it may well be that you know people have
• 3:38
  thought that uh these things shut down
• 3:40
  three and a half billion years ago. So
• 3:42
  if there's been activity within the last
• 3:44
  million years then it's still happening.
• 3:46
  That's the bottom line. Um but yeah, so
• 3:49
  you're quite right. In a body as
• 3:51
  volcanically
• 3:53
  um not active perhaps, but with a with a
• 3:57
  past history of being active, you might
• 3:59
  expect uh to find lava tubes. And you
• 4:02
  and I have both walked through lava
• 4:04
  tubes in Hawaii
• 4:06
  >> um and um experienced what they're like.
• 4:09
  And my recollection of those is that
• 4:11
  there are just a few meters in diameter,
• 4:13
  maybe three or four meters, perhaps
• 4:15
  five. Well, the news with this lava tube
• 4:18
  is that it is about a kilometer wide.
• 4:21
  >> Wow.
• 4:22
  >> Really?
• 4:23
  >> Yeah, it's a big one.
• 4:25
  >> Wow.
• 4:26
  >> Where does the evidence come from?
• 4:28
  Because you're quite right. We cannot
• 4:30
  directly see the surface of Venus.
• 4:33
  Although I should give a shout out to my
• 4:36
  late friend and colleague David Allen.
• 4:38
  Uh sadly passed away in 1994,
• 4:43
  I think.
• 4:44
  um uh he was at the age of only 47. He
• 4:48
  actually observed for the first time the
• 4:51
  surface of Venus from a groundbased
• 4:53
  telescope. It was the Anglo Australian
• 4:54
  telescope here in New South Wales. Um
• 4:57
  and he was using infrared radiation and
• 4:59
  he found evidence that he could actually
• 5:02
  penetrate to the surface. Now there
• 5:03
  wasn't actually very much to see. Um and
• 5:06
  um uh most of what we know about the
• 5:08
  surface of Venus has come from a
• 5:10
  spacecraft called Mellin uh which was in
• 5:14
  orbit between 1990 and 1992 around the
• 5:17
  planet Venus. It was a NASA spacecraft
• 5:20
  and had something called synthetic
• 5:21
  aperture radar on board.
• 5:24
  Collected a huge trove of data on the
• 5:27
  surface of Venus. It's how we know there
• 5:29
  are volcanoes there. It's how we know uh
• 5:31
  that you know there are rocky features.
• 5:34
  uh lots and lots of different uh what
• 5:37
  you might call ignous rock features.
• 5:39
  Those are the ones that are created by
• 5:41
  volcanoes. Uh and it's now a reanalysis
• 5:44
  of some of those data by a group uh at
• 5:48
  the remote sensing laboratory at the
• 5:50
  University of Torrento in uh Italy. Um
• 5:54
  they have uh coordinated the reanalysis
• 5:57
  of the data and basically have looked
• 6:00
  for evidence of what are called
• 6:03
  skylights. And a skylight is a hole in
• 6:06
  the roof of a of a lava tube as you'd
• 6:09
  expect. It kind of gives it away. And
• 6:12
  I'm sure I I recall seeing skylights in
• 6:14
  lava tubes in Hawaii as well. Um but
• 6:18
  what they found is evidence not just for
• 6:22
  a roof collapse which could be you know
• 6:25
  any old cave uh under the surface whose
• 6:28
  roof was collapsed but to to show that
• 6:31
  there is uh there there is a a sort of
• 6:35
  um a channel on on either side of that
• 6:38
  collapsed roof. Um, in other words, a,
• 6:42
  you know, a a a subsurface cavity that
• 6:46
  is is going
• 6:49
  backwards and forwards, if I can put it
• 6:50
  that way, as well as just downwards. Uh,
• 6:53
  so what you're talking about is, yes, a
• 6:55
  lava tube. Um, lava tubes, uh, as you
• 6:59
  and I probably both aware, uh, are
• 7:02
  formed by flowing lava. Uh but what
• 7:06
  happens is the the lava sort of develops
• 7:09
  a a crust uh as the the lava flow is
• 7:13
  carried on. Uh and that crust of solid
• 7:17
  lava basically insulates the hot lava
• 7:21
  that's flowing from its uh frozen
• 7:24
  surroundings. Yeah. Uh and so solidified
• 7:26
  surroundings. And so you've got the
• 7:29
  molten rock just keeps on moving. Uh and
• 7:32
  then eventually when the eruption stops,
• 7:34
  the lava drains away and you've got an
• 7:35
  empty tunnel that fence the lava tube.
• 7:37
  >> Yes.
• 7:38
  >> Uh and so that's what we're talking
• 7:40
  about here. The roof is thought to be
• 7:44
  pretty deep. This all comes from these
• 7:46
  radar measurements. At least 150 m
• 7:49
  thick. And so then you've got an empty
• 7:52
  void that goes down uh at least 375 m.
• 7:58
  uh and the uh as I said the the the the
• 8:02
  width or the the estimated diameter of
• 8:05
  this lava tube is a kilometer. Uh now
• 8:08
  that's very very big. Yes. Uh it's um
• 8:13
  and as there's a very nice article about
• 8:15
  this on space daily and they say uh that
• 8:18
  is at the upper end of of what
• 8:21
  scientists have suggested or observed
• 8:23
  for similar structures on the moon and
• 8:25
  above the typical sizes expected on
• 8:28
  Earth or Mars. Uh but the uh the
• 8:31
  research team have commented that this
• 8:34
  is consistent with Venus having lava
• 8:36
  channels that are much larger and
• 8:38
  probably longer than those on the other
• 8:41
  planets or the other the the other lava
• 8:43
  rich worlds like the moon and the planet
• 8:46
  Mars. So really interesting stuff. Um
• 8:49
  are we going to go and explore one of
• 8:51
  these? Well, that's a really good
• 8:52
  question given the temperature is what
• 8:54
  is it 450 Celsius or melts.
• 8:58
  >> Uh and um yeah,
• 9:01
  >> be much cooler in the lava tube. I
• 9:03
  reckon
• 9:04
  >> probably would might drop at least 5° in
• 9:06
  the lava tube.
• 9:07
  >> You'd be right. Yeah,
• 9:09
  >> there is um there's a suggestion from
• 9:11
  these researchers and I think it's based
• 9:13
  on sort of circumstantial evidence that
• 9:16
  some of these conduits in the same
• 9:18
  region as the the hole that they found
• 9:20
  could could run for well they suggest at
• 9:22
  least 45 kilometers.
• 9:24
  >> Wow.
• 9:24
  >> Um and uh yeah, that's quite quite
• 9:27
  remarkable. These are lava tubes, you
• 9:29
  know, the granddaddies of all lava
• 9:30
  tubes.
• 9:31
  >> Yes. Well, they're coming out of a uh
• 9:34
  volcano called Nyx Mons,
• 9:37
  >> which is a a shield volcano like Olympus
• 9:40
  Mons. It's not as big, but it is it is
• 9:43
  rather huge. It's um about 362
• 9:46
  kilometers across is this particular
• 9:49
  volcano according to the uh the article
• 9:52
  I I've just found. But uh yeah, Nyxmon's
• 9:54
  named after a um Greek goddess
• 9:57
  apparently
• 9:58
  >> of of darkness, isn't it? Isn't it? I it
• 10:00
  would be Yeah. Nick
• 10:02
  >> Mount Darkness or something.
• 10:03
  >> Yeah. Yeah. I I do have a recollection
• 10:06
  that Nyx has something to do with the
• 10:07
  underworld or something to that effect.
• 10:10
  But uh yeah. Um lava tubes on Venus,
• 10:13
  lava tubes on the moon, lava tubes on
• 10:15
  Earth, lava tubes on Mars. They're
• 10:18
  everywhere, Fred.
• 10:19
  >> Well, yes. Who gets excited about lava
• 10:21
  tubes when they're that common?
• 10:23
  >> Well, if you're on Venus, cuz they're so
• 10:25
  big. and and you do if you're going to
• 10:27
  sort of create a colony on Mars or even
• 10:29
  the moon just to protect them from
• 10:32
  radiation. So, uh yeah, the these things
• 10:35
  were put there for a reason. See, that's
• 10:37
  what it was.
• 10:38
  >> I'm sure somebody would say that.
• 10:40
  >> Yeah, maybe. So, but um yeah, great
• 10:42
  story and uh also good to see that some
• 10:46
  of that old data dating back
• 10:48
  >> Yeah.
• 10:48
  >> over 30 years has been reanalyzed and
• 10:51
  we've been able to learn more from it.
• 10:53
  Uh, I'm loving that that's happening
• 10:56
  more and more these days. If you want to
• 10:58
  read about it, uh, as Fred said, it's on
• 10:59
  spaceaily.com or you can read the paper
• 11:02
  proper from start to finish. It's only
• 11:05
  about 5,000 pages at Nature
• 11:07
  Communications.
• 11:08
  Now, Fred, we we talked about Mars. We
• 11:11
  might as well go straight to that
• 11:13
  planet. uh because uh in the past uh we
• 11:16
  have talked about plans by a certain
• 11:18
  Elon Musk uh to send people to Mars and
• 11:23
  colonize. Um now I know how you feel
• 11:26
  about colonization of anything beyond
• 11:28
  Earth. Uh but it looks like he's decided
• 11:32
  probably not time to consider that.
• 11:35
  Let's let's bite off something we can
• 11:37
  chew.
• 11:38
  >> Uh exactly. Um and not before time.
• 11:43
  So, you know, Elon's Mars aspirations go
• 11:47
  back 20 years or more, I think, to right
• 11:50
  to the beginning of SpaceX. And of
• 11:52
  course, his main reason for developing
• 11:53
  the Starship was to be able to uh
• 11:56
  transport large numbers of people to the
• 11:59
  planet Mars. And so, he has successfully
• 12:02
  developed Starship and it um is still
• 12:05
  under test. Uh we're I think we're on
• 12:08
  test number 18's coming up if I remember
• 12:11
  rightly of the whole Starship package
• 12:12
  with the Falcon Super Heavy uh and the
• 12:16
  um uh the and the Starship itself which
• 12:19
  is the upper stage. Uh but that uh so
• 12:24
  that's it's not quite ready, but it's
• 12:26
  certainly getting there. Uh but the
• 12:29
  penny has finally dropped that it's a
• 12:31
  lot harder to go to Mars than it is to
• 12:33
  the moon.
• 12:34
  >> Exactly. and he he has a deal with NASA.
• 12:37
  He's one of the two companies that is uh
• 12:40
  um competing for the rights to land or
• 12:43
  to be the landing vehicle on the moon
• 12:45
  for the artimus 3 um and beyond the in
• 12:50
  other words the lunar program. Uh the
• 12:52
  other company is is Blue Origin with
• 12:54
  Jeff Bezos. Uh they've got a lunar
• 12:57
  lander that looks a lot more sensible in
• 13:00
  many ways than Starship. Starship's a
• 13:02
  huge thing to land it on the moon. If
• 13:04
  you get things wrong, you've got a big
• 13:06
  disaster on your hands. Anyway, um that
• 13:08
  I think has what has focused Elon again
• 13:12
  on the moon rather than Mars. Plus the
• 13:15
  fact that um as it he's pointed out in
• 13:19
  he sent out a a text on this or a or a
• 13:23
  blog or social media thingo uh which
• 13:27
  said
• 13:29
  >> we had it on X. It might have been X.
• 13:32
  Yes, it's funny you should say that.
• 13:33
  Anyway, he's he's suggesting that one of
• 13:36
  the reasons is that you can you can go
• 13:38
  to the moon every 10 days. Uh you can
• 13:41
  only go to Mars uh every 26 months. Uh
• 13:45
  plus you've got a six-month journey
• 13:46
  there, whereas you can probably do it in
• 13:48
  three or four days for the moon. Um, and
• 13:51
  in some senses it gives you the same
• 13:56
  outcome for the main reason that Elon
• 13:59
  wanted to go to Mars, which was to
• 14:01
  provide a lifeboat for the inhabitants
• 14:04
  of planet Earth. Um Elon decided a long
• 14:08
  time ago uh like the spacecraft behind
• 14:10
  you at the moment uh that the earth was
• 14:13
  doomed uh and um that we needed
• 14:16
  somewhere else to go to ensure the
• 14:19
  survival of homo sapiens. Um that's a in
• 14:22
  in many ways is a is a a lordable um
• 14:25
  aspiration. But then his next thought
• 14:28
  was going and trampling all over Mars.
• 14:30
  Uh but I think just the I mean you and I
• 14:34
  have been talking about this for a long
• 14:36
  time how difficult it is going to be to
• 14:39
  put humans on Mars. Uh just because of
• 14:42
  the journey there at least 6 months you
• 14:45
  can't come back until you've waited
• 14:46
  another 6 months or so until the moon
• 14:48
  and sorry the earth and Mars are in the
• 14:50
  right uh position relative to one
• 14:52
  another and then you've got a six-month
• 14:54
  journey back. It's just such a difficult
• 14:57
  um venture to imagine. And plus, you've
• 15:00
  got a pretty hostile environment when
• 15:02
  you're there. The moon's hostile, too,
• 15:04
  but it's a lot nearer. And you know, in
• 15:06
  an emergency, as we know from uh Apollo
• 15:09
  13, you can get your astronauts back.
• 15:11
  >> Yes.
• 15:12
  >> So, it's that's the it's like an
• 15:14
  epiphany, which I'm delighted to see to
• 15:17
  be honest.
• 15:18
  >> Yeah. Coming back to reality.
• 15:20
  >> I think it's a logical decision. Uh the
• 15:22
  day will come when we do send people to
• 15:25
  Mars, but I think
• 15:27
  >> that's right.
• 15:27
  >> It's a lot further off than uh Elon was
• 15:30
  hoping and he's already passed a couple
• 15:32
  of the deadlines. So
• 15:34
  >> Oh, yeah. indeed. Yes.
• 15:36
  >> It was going to be 2024 when they
• 15:38
  started talking about this in 2016.
• 15:40
  >> Yes.
• 15:41
  >> And I think most people thought then
• 15:44
  that was probably, you know, shooting
• 15:46
  too high um or too far.
• 15:48
  >> Do you remember Mars One? the uh the guy
• 15:51
  who conned everybody into training for a
• 15:54
  one-way journey to Mars, which was going
• 15:56
  to use uh SpaceX vehicles. So,
• 16:00
  >> uh Elon was kind of in on that.
• 16:04
  >> Yeah. Um well, it one day it will
• 16:06
  happen. Um yes,
• 16:09
  >> I think we've got to get it all sorted
• 16:10
  out for the moon first and
• 16:12
  >> exactly then then we can springboard to
• 16:15
  Mars and who knows where beyond that.
• 16:18
  Um, but you know, it's going to take
• 16:21
  time and you got to have the right
• 16:22
  equipment and I don't think we've really
• 16:24
  got the gear to do a journey to Mars
• 16:29
  yet. There's so much about the human
• 16:32
  body you got to take into account. Not
• 16:34
  just the life support, but you got to
• 16:36
  consider that um, you know, they're
• 16:37
  going to be up there for at least what,
• 16:41
  18 months, something like that. Um,
• 16:45
  yeah, it's a long time. You're going to
• 16:47
  be away for at least 18 months. That's
• 16:48
  right.
• 16:49
  >> Yeah. So, your your body's going to be
• 16:50
  affected by that because the gravity
• 16:53
  that you enjoy and take for granted on
• 16:55
  Earth that keeps your body the way it is
• 16:58
  won't be there. So, yeah, all these
• 17:01
  things um once once they've they've
• 17:05
  perfected um artificial gravity in
• 17:07
  space, uh then we might start seeing
• 17:10
  movement towards Mars.
• 17:12
  >> Yeah, we're not there yet. Uh, you can
• 17:14
  read that story at spaceaily.com.
• 17:18
  This is Spacenuts with Andrew Dunley and
• 17:21
  Professor Fred Watson.
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• 19:13
  incogn.com/spacenuts
• 19:16
  and see what works for you. But uh peace
• 19:18
  of mind is probably um yeah uh something
• 19:22
  that we all need in this uh this world
• 19:25
  of data thieves. So u check it out today
• 19:28
  incogn.com/spacenuts
• 19:34
  base here the angle has landed
• 19:37
  >> space nuts.
• 19:38
  >> The next story brings us back to the
• 19:40
  space race and of course we've been
• 19:42
  talking with much excitement about the
• 19:44
  prospect of Artemus 2 uh taking
• 19:48
  astronauts around the moon, four of them
• 19:51
  and bringing them back safely to Earth.
• 19:53
  They won't be landing or walking around
• 19:55
  on the surface in this case, but uh they
• 19:58
  are delayed, but getting closer to a
• 20:01
  liftoff, we hope. In the meantime,
• 20:05
  there's another space agency that is
• 20:07
  very very keen to put people on the moon
• 20:10
  and that's uh that's the China space
• 20:13
  agency, the China man space agency. Uh
• 20:16
  and they have just tested their own
• 20:18
  version of a reusable booster.
• 20:22
  Indeed, they have. In fact, they've done
• 20:24
  a double test uh Andrew. So, they've
• 20:26
  already demonstrated uh that I think
• 20:29
  it's their Long March 10 rocket uh can
• 20:33
  be returned uh safely back to Earth. Uh
• 20:36
  so, the the idea of reusable boosters
• 20:40
  goes back once again to Elon in 2015
• 20:44
  when the first Falcon uh returned safely
• 20:47
  to Earth to be reused. And now that's
• 20:50
  the normal way they do it. And so uh and
• 20:53
  it will be the same with the Starship uh
• 20:55
  super heavy booster. Um so it's it's a
• 20:59
  sort of um one company has has basically
• 21:02
  nailed it. Uh but another number of
• 21:05
  other companies are doing the same or
• 21:08
  attempting the same thing. Blue Origin
• 21:09
  is one of them. Jeff Bezos's company,
• 21:12
  they've had a success as well. And the
• 21:14
  China man space agency has also uh
• 21:18
  tested reusable boosters. And the latest
• 21:22
  test is a kind of double test because
• 21:25
  not only have they tested the reusable
• 21:28
  booster, they have tested their new uh
• 21:32
  spacecraft which is the one intended to
• 21:35
  take uh tyonauts to the moon. Uh it's
• 21:38
  called Mang Xiao. If I remember rightly
• 21:41
  that means uh something dream I think. I
• 21:44
  can't remember what the exact
• 21:46
  translation is but it's a lovely name.
• 21:48
  Uh so Mang Xiao is um the spacecraft
• 21:52
  that will take astronauts from Earth
• 21:57
  probably to lunar orbit, but then
• 22:00
  there'll be a separate landing vehicle.
• 22:02
  So they'll transfer to a lander which
• 22:04
  will take them down to the surface.
• 22:06
  That's a bit like the architecture
• 22:08
  that's being planned for Arteimus 3. uh
• 22:13
  as far as I'm aware of or certainly ones
• 22:14
  beyond that that you're you're talking
• 22:16
  about having a a separate lander in
• 22:18
  orbit around the moon. So uh that's the
• 22:21
  test but there's another element of this
• 22:23
  that was tested in this new
• 22:25
  demonstration and that is the Manga
• 22:27
  spacecraft like most of the crude
• 22:30
  capsules uh that we see going into orbit
• 22:33
  and certainly the Apollo capsule does
• 22:35
  this as does the the SpaceX Dragon
• 22:38
  capsule Crew Dragon uh that is the
• 22:41
  launch abort system. In other words, the
• 22:44
  way of getting the capsule off the top
• 22:47
  of the rocket if something goes wrong.
• 22:49
  Um, and they demonstrated that by uh
• 22:53
  getting the Mang Xiao capsule to um um
• 22:57
  leave the uh long long march 10 rocket
• 23:01
  uh at a fairly early stage in the uh in
• 23:05
  the flight and it was just about the
• 23:07
  time of what we call max Q where you've
• 23:09
  got maximum aerodynamic pressure on the
• 23:13
  vehicle. the the the the abort motors
• 23:15
  that fitted in the Mangja spacecraft
• 23:18
  pulled it away from the booster um
• 23:21
  exactly as you would do if you were
• 23:22
  trying to escape from u you know
• 23:25
  something dangerous going on with your
• 23:27
  booster rocket and it it all worked very
• 23:30
  very successfully. Uh very interesting
• 23:33
  to read. I think the the China um man
• 23:38
  space agency uh their program is well on
• 23:41
  track. Uh they are have all along said
• 23:44
  they want to have uh tyonauts on the
• 23:46
  moon by 2030. Uh and it looks as though
• 23:50
  they're well on the way to doing that.
• 23:51
  Here we are in 2026. Yeah. Look, they're
• 23:54
  um they're doing some impressive things
• 23:56
  and they have become probably
• 23:59
  the major player next to the United
• 24:01
  States in space exploration. Uh Russia
• 24:05
  seems to have fallen a little behind,
• 24:07
  but they've got their attention focused
• 24:09
  elsewhere at the moment. But um that's
• 24:11
  right.
• 24:11
  >> It it's it I I think it's good. Uh it's
• 24:14
  it's healthy competition. Uh and I I
• 24:18
  think you know having a new race to the
• 24:20
  moon situation is is very exciting and
• 24:23
  uh I I can't wait to see how it all pans
• 24:26
  out. Uh and I did look up the
• 24:29
  translation for Mju or Ming Xiao and
• 24:32
  it's dream vessel.
• 24:33
  >> Yes.
• 24:34
  >> Or dream boat if you like. You could go
• 24:36
  either way, but um yeah. Um they've come
• 24:40
  a long way since releasing the motor
• 24:42
  vehicle known as the Cherry, which
• 24:44
  didn't do so great in Australia,
• 24:48
  but um they're doing wonderful things
• 24:50
  now. In fact, I I think uh it's a
• 24:53
  Chinese car company that owns um MG now
• 24:56
  and is producing new models of the MG
• 24:59
  motor car, which is readily available in
• 25:02
  Australia. So um and they're selling a
• 25:04
  lot of them. They're they're quite a a
• 25:06
  popular vehicle uh in this country. I
• 25:08
  don't know how they're going elsewhere,
• 25:10
  but uh and of course they've got the
• 25:12
  build your dreams uh electric vehicle uh
• 25:16
  that's making inroads around the world.
• 25:18
  And um I first saw them when we were in
• 25:19
  China a couple of years ago. Uh they're
• 25:22
  doing amazing things technologically on
• 25:25
  Earth and in space. Uh and and I I look
• 25:28
  forward to seeing how far they take it.
• 25:29
  They might get to Mars before anyone
• 25:31
  else. Fred,
• 25:32
  >> maybe that's not impossible. No, not at
• 25:35
  all.
• 25:35
  >> Uh it's yeah, it's a program to be
• 25:38
  admired. It's uh it's certainly going
• 25:40
  well.
• 25:42
  >> Okay. Uh you can read all about that um
• 25:45
  test run of the Mangu spacecraft and the
• 25:48
  reusable booster at arsenchnica.com.
• 25:53
  Let's take a break from the show to tell
• 25:55
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• 27:33
  >> Think we need to do a little more all
• 27:35
  weather testing.
• 27:37
  >> Amen.
• 27:37
  >> Space nuts. Uh, one last story, Fred,
• 27:41
  and this one takes us uh into um some of
• 27:44
  the outer reaches of our solar system,
• 27:46
  or at least getting on your way there.
• 27:48
  Uh, Saturn's moon, Titan. Now, we've
• 27:51
  talked about Titan multiple times over
• 27:54
  the last several years, for one reason
• 27:57
  or another. Um, now they have suggested
• 28:00
  that Titan might have previously been
• 28:03
  two moons or maybe more and there was
• 28:06
  some kind of event that brought it all
• 28:09
  together.
• 28:10
  That's right. Uh, and so what's sort of
• 28:14
  prompted this is the idea that Titan's
• 28:22
  orbit has evolved. Uh and it's basically
• 28:29
  um the the the you know the
• 28:31
  gravitational pull of Saturn that uh
• 28:36
  stabilizes the orbit. You'd expect an
• 28:38
  orbit eventually to become more or less
• 28:40
  circular but Titans isn't. Uh and so
• 28:44
  what people have looked at is uh okay um
• 28:50
  what happens if we um sort of replay the
• 28:54
  thing backwards to look at what that
• 28:57
  orbit might have looked like maybe 100
• 28:59
  million years ago.
• 29:01
  >> Uh and it's
• 29:04
  that's 100 million years. It looks as
• 29:07
  though something did happen. Um there is
• 29:10
  uh the idea of a collision uh between um
• 29:16
  something that was large and something
• 29:19
  that was small. And the remnants of that
• 29:22
  collision still exist today. One is
• 29:24
  Titan. The other is Hyperion which is a
• 29:27
  very famous potato
• 29:30
  uh moon very odd shape uh which is also
• 29:34
  in a in a elongated or eccentric orbit.
• 29:38
  Uh but so you what you do is you replay
• 29:40
  their orbits back and you find that
• 29:42
  there might have been some sort of
• 29:44
  interaction about 100 million years ago.
• 29:47
  But of course that 100 million years uh
• 29:50
  rings a bell with anybody interested in
• 29:52
  Saturn because that's how old we think
• 29:53
  the rings are. Uh and so the suggestion
• 29:56
  is that there were two of these moons
• 29:58
  that collided a big one and a small one.
• 30:01
  Um and the debris um some of it would
• 30:04
  have enhanced the size of Titan, some of
• 30:07
  it would have enhanced the size probably
• 30:08
  of Hyperion. Uh and some of it would
• 30:10
  have created the ring system. Uh and
• 30:13
  that's the really rather neat and tidy
• 30:16
  story that is coming out of this piece
• 30:19
  of research which um uh comes actually
• 30:23
  from uh the SETI institute the uh the um
• 30:27
  kind of stressful intelligence.
• 30:29
  >> Yep. there's a still a pretty active uh
• 30:32
  group of scientists at SETI.
• 30:37
  >> Um
• 30:37
  >> yeah. Yeah. Well, that's good. It's good
• 30:39
  that they're sort of not just focused on
• 30:41
  the one thing. They they're working on
• 30:43
  um on other um things that are happening
• 30:47
  in in space science. Uh Titan's an
• 30:49
  interesting world. I think it's the
• 30:51
  second largest moon in solar system or
• 30:54
  second.
• 30:54
  >> It is. That's correct.
• 30:56
  >> And and it it's got an atmosphere.
• 30:58
  though whatever happened to it certainly
• 31:00
  created an interesting situation.
• 31:05
  >> Uh that's right. Um sorry I was I've
• 31:07
  I've lost you on my screens. I've just
• 31:09
  found you again. That's why it's
• 31:10
  preoccupied. Um not only is it the
• 31:13
  second biggest uh moon in the solar
• 31:15
  system. It's actually bigger than
• 31:16
  Mercury. Uh and it's a very large object
• 31:19
  and of great interest with um you know
• 31:22
  the Dragonfly uh mission being planned
• 31:25
  to fly through the atmosphere, an
• 31:27
  octacopter that will fly through the
• 31:28
  atmosphere of Titan and send us back
• 31:30
  hopefully pictures of the ethane and
• 31:33
  methane lakes on Titan's icy surface.
• 31:36
  The surface of Titan is just solid ice.
• 31:38
  So yeah, an interesting insight into the
• 31:40
  history of Titan and also um just sort
• 31:43
  of adds to the intrigue when we go and
• 31:45
  when we finally do go and have a close
• 31:47
  look at Titan.
• 31:48
  >> Yes, indeed. Yeah. A fascinating world
• 31:50
  and another one that would not really be
• 31:53
  good for humans to wander around, right?
• 31:55
  >> That's right.
• 31:55
  >> Yeah.
• 31:57
  >> We're surrounded by all of that, aren't
• 31:58
  we?
• 31:59
  >> Yeah. Which is um not really a
• 32:02
  coincidence, is it? Cuz the only place
• 32:04
  we can live is the one where we evolved
• 32:06
  on. So indeed. M uh but uh it's a great
• 32:10
  story. Uh who'd have thunk it? Two moons
• 32:12
  that created one and that is what we
• 32:15
  call Titan. Uh if you'd like to read up
• 32:17
  on that, it's on uh the fizz.org
• 32:21
  website, phys, or you can read the paper
• 32:24
  in the planetary science journal. And we
• 32:28
  are done. Fred, thank you very much.
• 32:32
  >> That's uh isn't that episode 601 that we
• 32:35
  finished? Yeah.
• 32:36
  >> Yes, indeed. Wow.
• 32:37
  >> But time flies when you're having fun.
• 32:41
  >> Certainly does. Uh thank you, Andrew.
• 32:43
  It's always great to chat.
• 32:44
  >> We'll catch you soon on the next
• 32:46
  episode, which will be a Q&A episode uh
• 32:48
  coming up soon. And um don't forget to
• 32:51
  visit us online in the meantime. You can
• 32:53
  do that at spacenutspodcast.com or
• 32:55
  spacenuts.io. You can visit our social
• 32:57
  media pages, the official Space Nuts
• 33:00
  Facebook page or the Instagram uh site
• 33:03
  or you can go to the uh the the user
• 33:06
  generated Facebook page which is the
• 33:08
  Space Nuts podcast group which is
• 33:11
  growing in number. Let me have a look.
• 33:13
  2,700 plus members in uh in that uh
• 33:17
  Facebook group at the moment and uh they
• 33:18
  all chat to each other and tell terrible
• 33:20
  jokes. So uh check it out and thanks to
• 33:24
  Hugh in the studio. Hugh um couldn't be
• 33:26
  with us today because he was um out last
• 33:29
  Saturday night and something about two
• 33:31
  moons. Anyway, got arrested. And from
• 33:35
  from me, Andrew Dunley, thanks for your
• 33:38
  company. Catch catch you on the next
• 33:40
  episode of Space Nuts. Bye-bye.
• 33:42
  >> Space Nuts.
• 33:43
  >> You'll be listening to the Space Nuts
• 33:46
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• 33:48
  >> available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
• 33:51
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• 33:53
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  byes.com. This has been another quality
• 33:59
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