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“Whine cave.” (Debate recap special!) · Pod Save America

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Good news, gift givers. The holidays just got a little
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  Speaker 1: aspiring star baker and even the crafty one in the
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: friend group. Who's the crafty one in our friend group?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: It's me.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: If you have to ask, it's not you. Yeah, well,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: that I know.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It's me.
• 0:18
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• 0:19
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• 0:21
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• 0:23
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• 0:26
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  Speaker 2: It could be either.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I saw what John did to a pumpkin the other day,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: and I don't know. I don't think I can see
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Tommy making one of those snowflakes he cut out.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I just don't see him as the artistic type.
• 0:38
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• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, we have an impeached president and seven
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: candidates on a debate stage vying to replace him. which
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: primarily involved an argument about a wine cave.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: It's fun to do a live show from a wine cave.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: That's what we're doing right now.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: We are. There's glittering stuff everywhere.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. Chandeliers.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Chandeliers. That's what it was.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Crystals.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: So we're going to get into all of it. But first,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: you have all officially raised $ 2 million for Fair Fight
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: through over 50,000 donations over the last few months. That
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: is the guys applauding for you. Hundreds of people clapping.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Because of what you did, there will now be voter
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: protection teams on the ground in 20 battleground states across
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the country to make sure that every voice is heard
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: in 2020. And as we head into the new year,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: we just wanted to make sure all of you understand
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: how much Friends of the Pod and Friends of all
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: of our Crooked Media shows accomplished over these last few years.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: So if you go to crooked.com slash impact, you'll see
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: a report called Is That Hope I Feel? Which shows
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: some of the amazing ways you've all contributed since we
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: started this whole thing a couple years ago. So thank you.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you.
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: Thank you.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Now get back to work.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Lastly, quick scheduling note. Next week, you'll get a holiday
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: mailbag episode from Dan and me. And on January 30th,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: you'll get a New Year's resolution episode from Tommy, John,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: and me. And then we will all be back in
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: the new decade for some more pods.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Is it definitely the new decade?
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Dan, we did this yesterday, too.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: It's very frustrating. Because as Dan knows, there was no
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: year zero.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: As Dan knows.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Really just Dan is surely aware.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks for triggering.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: We sorted out the zero thing a couple thousand years ago.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, OK, we are going to mostly talk about
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the debate last night. But I do want to start
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: with the biggest news of the week and maybe the year.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: On Wednesday, Donald Trump became the third president in history
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: to be impeached. In fact, he holds the record for
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the most votes ever acquired on an article of impeachment
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: at 230 for abusing his power. There were 197 no votes.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I do not think he'll be bragging about that record.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Did anyone make the popular vote joke on Twitter?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, three or four dozen blue check marks.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: You know, I saw this stat and I just was thinking, okay,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: so more people voted for the impeachment of Trump than
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: voted for the impeachment of Clinton. There never was an
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: actual vote on the impeachment of Nixon. And I assume
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: when Andrew Johnson was voted to be impeached, there were
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: just fewer members in the House.
• 4:06
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks, wet blanket.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: Just saying. I mean, it's like, all right, you beat Clinton.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Take the win.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I'm just saying, like, obviously he's more impeachable than Bill Clinton.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: That one was iffy at best.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: The second article, the obstruction of Congress article, passed 229
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: to 198. That's because Jared Golden of Maine, Democrat, decided
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to vote for abuse of power.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Again, obstruction of Congress. I've got to say, hey, whole boy,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: way to talk yourself into a bad political strategy, man.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Look, in his defense, no candidate has ever gotten in
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: trouble for voting for something before they voted against it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just imagining you go to a town hall and
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: some Trump supporter comes screaming at you like, why did
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: you do this? And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I did one article, but the other one, I said no.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: You only half hate me.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing it.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Now, here's what I did. All right, there was this baby,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: and so I split it in half.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So anyway, Speaker Nancy Pelosi has so far held back
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: on sending the articles to the Senate, saying she wants
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: to first know the rules of the trial and whether
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: witnesses will be called. Mitch McConnell, who can set those
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: rules with 51 votes, said that he doesn't really care
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: if Pelosi ever sends over the articles. But according to
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: the New York Times, one person who does seem to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: care is Donald Trump. who wants to be able to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: brag that he was acquitted by the Senate. That's according
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: to Maggie Haberman's reporting. Dan, what are your thoughts on
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Pelosi's move here? And what should Democrats be doing in
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: general in these next few weeks to make this trial,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know, successful?
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: I think in the short term, I think it's the
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: right move. There is no incentive to just give this
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: to McConnell and give him all the power to just
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: call a sham trial and end it right there. So
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: you might as well hold it. I think there is
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: a question about over the long term, what leverage do
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: they have? What does Mitch McConnell need this for? When
• 5:49
  Speaker 5: they go into the negotiations and Schumer and Pelosi are like,
• 5:52
  Speaker 5: we want witnesses, we're not going to send the impeachment articles.
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: And Mitch McConnell's like, fine, what's for lunch? But I
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: think right now, there's no point in just sending it
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: to him and taking that off the table. So we
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: can at least over the next several weeks here have
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: the conversation about how Mitch McConnell, with the help of
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: I don't know, to pick some senators out of a hat,
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: Cory Gardner, Martha McSally, Susan Collins, are rigging this trial
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: for Trump, right? They're covering up his crimes and not
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: letting the public have a hearing about it. So that's
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: at least a conversation we can have because she held
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: back the articles.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, John Bolton can go on NPR this morning
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: to complain about Trump's North Korea policy, but he can't
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: testify before the Senate. Give me a break. I'd love
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to see this folded into a cover-up message. I don't
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: know if it'll work. I don't know if it's sustainable.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if a bunch of House members will
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: get squishy, but It would be real depressing to see
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  Speaker 2: this go over to the Senate and for McConnell to
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  Speaker 2: just kill it.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: You know, it's McConnell said something in an interview about this,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: which is that he expects the vote to be largely partisan.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: And that largely was doing a lot of work, because
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: if he if he expected his caucus to be fully united,
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: he wouldn't have said largely. And so I think it's
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: really less about McConnell than it is about four vulnerable
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Republican senators. And whether or not this is going to
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: be one of those moments where they demonstrate a tiny
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: bit of conscience or one of those many more frequent
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: moments where they do not. And beyond that, I guess
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: we don't really know right now. It is just less
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: about McConnell and more about people like Mitt Romney, Cory Gardner,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Susan Collins and others.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Kamala Harris laid this out quite well
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: in an op-ed she wrote for The New York Times,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: which is these senators have to make a decision. Are
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: you going to vote for a trial or are you
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: going to vote for a cover up? And that's what
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Democrats should be saying about all these Republicans. And that's
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: what you should be saying, especially about Susan Collins, who
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: has to face voters in 2020 in a purple state.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And same thing with Cory Gardner and all the other
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: senators we just mentioned. And look, I do think like Tommy,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: like you were just saying, people are these Republicans are
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: worried about what happens if John Bolton testifies and if
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Mick Mulvaney testifies before that. There's a reason why they
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: don't want these want want these witnesses to go before
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the Senate, because even if ultimately they know they have
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the votes to acquit Donald Trump, which I'm sure they do.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: even if they lose a few Republican senators, John Bolton
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: and Mick Mulvaney getting up there and reminding everyone, because
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: we've been talking about process for so many weeks now
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: since we've moved away from the actual crime itself, reminding
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: everyone that Donald Trump did in fact do this crime,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: that he did in fact abuse his power. And those
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: are two witnesses who were directly involved and talked directly
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump about this. I don't think that's going to,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they're clearly afraid of that, right?
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: Do you think they're afraid of the politics of it
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: or they're afraid of Trump's reaction to allowing that to happen?
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Probably both.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I think they're afraid of the revelations.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I think that he probably told Mulvaney and Bolton to
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: hold the aid back until we do the investigation into Biden.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I think it was probably that direct.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, remember, support for impeachment and Donald Trump's support
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: for impeachment was at its highest and Donald Trump's approval
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: rating was at its lowest as the news was breaking
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: and as as the new revelations came to light. It
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: started tightening up as we got into this whole, you know,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and Republicans did a good job of this, just talking
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: about process, process, process and the impeachment trial itself. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: think when there are new revelations about wrongdoing, it is
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: bad for Donald Trump. We have seen that already. And
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: so they clearly want to avoid that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Like if I was in McConnell's shoes, right, and Trump
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: was a reasonable human being, like what you would want
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: is the trial that looks the most like a real
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: trial without being one, right? So that's like, we're going
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: to have some witnesses and we'll Let, you know, Fiona Hill,
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: the ones other people testify, and we'll take Mulvaney because
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: he'll probably lie under oath and not Bolton because he
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: may not. Like that would be the best thing for
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: the Senate, the Republicans, like putting Trump because he cannot
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: allow them to say the obvious thing, which is what
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: Trump did was wrong. But we do not believe it
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: is impeachable, particularly a year out from an election. Like
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: that's the obvious right they knew, but he won't let
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: him do it. The right thing to do here, I think,
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: would be to allow there to be a couple witnesses
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: and then push this thing aside.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: I do think there's two issues with that. I think, one,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: there's a problem. point at which I think McConnell worries
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: he just loses control of this thing. Once there's witnesses
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: being called, once there's John Roberts sitting in that seat
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: making decisions, once it feels like a trial, I think
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: things can suddenly become less controllable by him. And the
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: second thing is, if I were Mitch McConnell and I'm
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: looking at this, I'd be going to people like Cory
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Gardner and Susan Collins. and other vulnerable centers and saying, look,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: there's a very bad vote coming for you. Which vote
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: do you think is worse? Do you want to vote
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: to avoid a real trial and face all the criticism
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: and negative coverage for doing that? Or do you want
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: to vote no after a damning series of revelations in
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: a trial? And in a purely political calculation, I don't
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: totally know which is a better place for someone like
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Cory Gardner to be in.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: And Pelosi said this in a press conference. But the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: one thing that the Democrats have going for them, Schumer
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and Pelosi, is, you know, that they can say it
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: during the Clinton impeachment, during the last impeachment, there was
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: a hundred to zero vote agreeing on bipartisan rules of
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: a trial. So if Mitch McConnell wants to just make
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: this and, you know, if he just wants to, like,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: ram this through like he does everything else, he at
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: least should or not him, but at least Collins and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the rest of them should pay a price for breaking
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: with precedent on this. OK, so. Basically, the upshot of
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: all this is we don't know when the trial is
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: going to be. It's certainly not now going to be
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: immediately after the break because the articles aren't there. So
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: sometime in January, we just saw news this morning that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Pelosi did invite Donald Trump to give the State of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: the Union on February 4th, which is the day after
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: the Iowa caucuses, which is also very interesting and sort
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of smart that the entire day of the State of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the Union will be taken up by the coverage of
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: who won Iowa and not Trump's State of the Union address,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: though he'll get some coverage of that on Wednesday.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Did you skip it if you're running?
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: If you're Cory Booker and you have a great finish
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: in Iowa, do you not go right to New Hampshire
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and you go watch the State of the Union?
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: I think you probably take that red-eye flight to New
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: Hampshire because they offer them now. And you campaign in
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: New Hampshire. Then you come home to the State of
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: the Union and then go back that night.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: You stand up and you yell, you lied.
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, because you want to do media. You want to
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: do State of the Union media.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Do some sweet, sweet MSNBC hits. Get that action.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: Throw to Willie.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: All right. Let's talk about last night. Seven Democratic candidates
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: met right here in Los Angeles for the last presidential
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: debate of 2019 hosted by Politico and PBS. Joe Biden,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Tom Steyer,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and Andrew Yang. So we have some clips of the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: most notable exchanges between the candidates that we're going to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: get to. What did you guys think of this debate
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: overall before we get into some of the feistier moments?
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: I'll just say that I think it was one of
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: the best debates I've ever seen amongst Democrats. And at first,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: it wasn't clear that that was what was going to
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: happen because there were some odd choices to kind of, uh-oh,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: there's a difference. Let's go to break.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that bugs me.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Which is very PBS. And I know we're like, I
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: hate this partisan food fight. I hate this political food fight.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: But it's like, wait, where's my food fight?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Wait, I'm hungry.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Throw some mashed potatoes. But I felt like Elizabeth Warren
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: has had these very strong, solid performances, debate after debate
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: after debate. And this debate felt like everyone kind of
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: met her at her level. I thought each candidate was
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: as strong as they've been in a debate.
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: All year.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: And so it just made for a very kind of
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: like taut and strong set of exchanges throughout the night.
• 13:25
  Speaker 5: I thought the stakes felt higher because of the fewer
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: number of candidates on stage, because every exchange between the
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: candidates was between two candidates who were legitimately in the
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: running for this, right? This was not a situation where
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: it was like Tulsi Gabbard attacking Buttigieg or John Delaney
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: attacking Elizabeth Warren, where the only thing that really mattered
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: in the immediate context of the election was how the
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: person attacked responded. And here, we won't go through all
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: these exchanges, but The stakes were higher for both of them.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: And then the two candidates who I think are further
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: out from having a chance, Steyer and Yang, didn't attack anyone.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: So where there was conflict, the conflict I felt consequential
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: in a way it has in some of the other debates.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody's pretty good. It was a good debate. It
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: was well-moderated. To Levitt's point about the commercial breaks, it
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: wasn't just that we wanted a food fight. They were
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: talking about USMCA, and then all of a sudden we
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: moved on and we didn't hear what everyone thought. That
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: wasn't because of a commercial, but we moved on. It
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: was strange. Pete was talking about court reform and no
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: one really got to respond on that. So there was
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: some moments where I was like, I wish we dug
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: in on that, but that everyone was good. My headline
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: would be Pete took some heat. Klobuchar. I thought that
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: a hell of a thing. There was no real, uh,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: eight seconds ago, I wrote it down. There was, there
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: was no real ground broken against Biden, which is strange.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Like the only sort of revelatory thing about Biden was
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that he opposed the Afghanistan surge, which would probably help
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: him a Bernie again too. So like, If you view
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: those two as very strong, no one made progress against them. But,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a tough night for Pete because
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: a couple candidates decided to just come for him, including Klobuchar.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I was very proud of all of the candidates on
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that stage. I thought it was a very good debate.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, Lovett. I think every single candidate
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: upped their game, and you can tell they have become
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: better debaters. They have become better candidates. The messages were sharper.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, you would hope that would be the case
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: 45 days out from Iowa. But they really all have improved,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I think, to a person. And I think they made good,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: they not only, you know, were good in the exchanges
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: with each other, but they made pretty strong cases for
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: themselves and their candidacies. So I was, I was happy
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to see it because I think the stakes were also
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: raised a bit because, you know, in voters' minds too,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: with impeachment happening this week and also us knowing that,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: you know, he's probably going to be acquitted, but it just, it,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: it sticks in your mind that Donald Trump is out
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: there as the opponent, which I think in some other
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: debates is, it's sort of like fallen into the wayside
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and there hasn't been much mention of Trump at all.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And there were a lot of exchanges that we're going
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to get into, but at least in those first couple
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: questions on impeachment on the economy, on some of the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: other issues, you started hearing these Democrats make a case
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that they would make on a stage next to Donald Trump,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: not just about each other, which I thought was somewhat hopeful.
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: The debate ended better than it started because there is
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: no question that is more pointless than why haven't voters...
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: agreed with you more.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, terrible.
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: Like, asking presidential candidates to be sociology pundits is so dumb.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: But after that, I think it got much better. And
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: they delved into some issues around, you know, education for
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: kids with special needs and other things that have not
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: been touched on in other debates that I thought was
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: really good. All right.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: We were more than an hour into the debate when
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: shit started getting real. And Elizabeth Warren called out Pete
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Buttigieg for hosting a fundraiser with wealthy donors in a
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Napa Valley wine cave. Let's play the clip.
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: So the mayor just recently had a fundraiser that was
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: held in a wine cave full of crystals and served
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: $ 900 a bottle wine. Think about who comes to that.
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: He had promised that every fundraiser he would do would
• 17:04
  Speaker 6: be open door, but this one was closed door. We
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: made the decision many years ago. that rich people in
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: smoke-filled rooms would not pick the next president of the
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: United States. Billionaires in wine caves should not pick the
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: next president of the United States.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Mr.
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: Mayor, your response. You know, according to Forrest Magazine, I
• 17:29
  Speaker 7: am literally the only person on this stage who's not
• 17:32
  Speaker 7: a millionaire or a billionaire.
• 17:34
  Speaker 8: So if.
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: This is important. This is the problem with issuing purity
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: tests you cannot yourself pass. If I pledge If I
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: pledged never to be in the company of a progressive
• 17:51
  Speaker 7: Democratic donor, I couldn't be up here. Senator, your net
• 17:55
  Speaker 7: worth is 100 times mine. Now, supposing that you went
• 17:58
  Speaker 7: home feeling the holiday spirit, I know this isn't likely,
• 18:00
  Speaker 7: but stay with me, and decided to go on to PeteForAmerica.com
• 18:05
  Speaker 7: and give the maximum allowable by law, $ 2, 800. Would that
• 18:10
  Speaker 7: pollute my campaign because it came from a wealthy person?
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: No, I would be glad to have that support. We
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: need the support.
• 18:16
  Speaker 7: From everybody who is committed to helping us defeat Donald Trump.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Pete brings the heat. Oh, my goodness.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Let's start here. Why do we think Warren chose to
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: highlight this particular line of attack in the first place?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: She was the one who brought this up. She raised this.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: What was sort of the strategic thinking, do you think,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: behind this?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: It's vivid. It's the only thing people are writing about,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: talking about, going to remember from that exchange. It's not
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: hard to imagine a wine cave full of crystals and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: $ 900 bottles. And it speaks to the way Pete is
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: running his campaign versus big structural change. Now, I thought
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: that his response was probably strong, that we don't need
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: to unilaterally disarm. And he's right that there is a
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: bit of hypocrisy if you fundraise from these same individuals.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: in your Senate campaign, and then Warren transferred $ 10 million
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: to her presidential campaign and now is attacking him for
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: doing the same thing. But ironically, Pete there is setting
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: up his own purity test on campaign finance reform, which
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: is kind of the problem with trying to make progress
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: on these issues.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: How's he setting up his own purity test?
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Because he's saying, because he is attacking her for not
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: always having been perfect on campaign finance issues by saying,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: you used to raise money from the same people and
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: donors that I do today.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think it's she very clearly went
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: into this debate thinking I've been getting the shit kicked
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: out of me because we've been only talking about public
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: option versus single payer and my varying and evolving positions
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: on Bernie's plan versus my own. The core of my
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: campaign will be based around corruption. This is a place
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: for me to make a positive argument about myself and
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: a negative argument about Pete around money and influence.
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: I think this was a tactical error on Warren's part.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: I think, look, I would very much, one of the
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: reasons I would be excited about for Warren or Bernie
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: to win the nomination, therefore the presidency is, I think
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: it could fundamentally change the role of money in politics
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: and shift, break Democrats addiction to a small class of
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: billionaires to fund our elections and build a true grassroots
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: fundraising base. Like I think that is the right direction
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: for the party to go in the long run. I
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: think in this case, I don't think anyone knows what
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: a wine cave is. Like this is the, one of
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: the rare examples, wine cave has been a Twitter thing
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: for the last two days since these pictures came out. It's,
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: been a thing that all of the anti-Pete folks have
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: been tweeting about. And I think this is one of
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: the first times I've seen Warren give in to the
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: demands of online political virality to pick the wine cave.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: So that's one.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: Second, she didn't, I think, draw the next line, which
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: is why depending on the type of people who can
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: pay for $ 900 bottles of wine to fund your campaign
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: has a negative policy consequence for people. Right, like that.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Which she's done many times before very well and very effectively.
• 21:10
  Speaker 5: Right, and she did not do it on the stage.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: And then the third thing she brought up, but that
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: didn't close with, that I think is actually a better argument,
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: is she has a policy that she will not make
• 21:20
  Speaker 5: political donors ambassadors. They will all be.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: And she got that in on like the third retort.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: And that is, I think, and Pete has previously, as
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: everyone else on that stage has refused. Well, at least
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: I don't know about Bernie, but everyone else has refused
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: to make that same commitment. That to me is a stronger,
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: more substantive argument, which is that her government is not
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: going to be staffed by the kind of people who
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: buy access to politicians via a $ 900.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Bottle of wine.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: And so like that, I thought that it just, the
• 21:47
  Speaker 5: hit did not land and Pete was incredibly well prepared
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: for it. And she has a vulnerability there. And we
• 21:52
  Speaker 5: know the press would rather cover Elizabeth Warren's hypocrisy than
• 21:55
  Speaker 5: anything else.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because what Pete was trying to do was say,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: That her purity test was about, oh, you don't want
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: rich people giving money to campaigns. And that's not true, right?
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: That's not her test. What she said, and she said
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it later in her retort is, I don't sell access
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to my time, right? And the reason that she's decided
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to do grassroots fundraisers and forego these high dollar fundraisers
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: like Bernie has is that the more time you spend
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: with all these rich people, then they're going to ask
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: for favors later. and you should be spending time calling
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: people who are giving $ 5 and $ 10 and meeting people
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: at rallies. And I think that's a really, that's a
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: strong argument, you know? But she sort of let Pete
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: make it about, oh, you don't want rich people giving
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you money? Well, like, I'll give, you know, you've had
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: rich people giving you money in the past.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: What do you guys think about Pete's rejoinder about electability,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: which is to say we shouldn't unilaterally disarm an election
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: this big? I wonder if the pundit class of voters
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: in Iowa in particular will be.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I think when people are this concerned, I always hated
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that argument, but I think when people are this worried
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: about beating Donald Trump and all they've heard is how
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: much money Donald Trump is going to spend, it does
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: probably stick with a few people.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I think it's the most intellectually honest argument. I think
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: Pete's original retort, I think one of the issues that
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: happened in that exchange, this is not Elizabeth Warren mixing
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: it up with a dope like John Delaney who doesn't
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: belong on the stage. Pete Buttigieg is an incredibly sophisticated politician.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: So is Elizabeth Warren. And so these were two incredibly smart,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: sharp debaters. going at each other. And I think one
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: of the reasons it went back and forth so many
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: times is that they had a complicated argument they were
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: trying to make. They were both making, I think, unfair
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: and not exactly on the level responses to each other.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: But then when it finally came down to it, I
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: think you saw the core of the actual debate, which
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: is I don't sell access to my time. That corrupts
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: our policies. And it's one of the reasons people don't
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: trust Democrats. And as much as there's some truth to that,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: we cannot unilaterally disarm. The most important thing is getting
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: all the money we need to beat Donald Trump. I
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: think the problem for both of them is that they
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: went back and forth, they went back and forth, they
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: went back and forth. And then came Amy Klobuchar with,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: I think, the moment that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Let's play it.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Let's play what Amy Klobuchar did.
• 24:02
  Speaker 5: I did not.
• 24:03
  Speaker 8: Come here to listen to this argument. I came here
• 24:09
  Speaker 8: to make a case for progress. And I have never
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: even been to a wine cave. I've been to the
• 24:14
  Speaker 8: wind cave in South Dakota, which I suggest you go to.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: And so that moment to me, if I were to say, like,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: what what was the signal moment of that debate? It
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: was it was the back and forth, back and forth
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: three times between Pete and Warren. And as they did that,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: they both got smaller and smaller and smaller. And then
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: in comes Amy Klobuchar with a kind of unity message.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And I mean, she was prepared for that.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: She was ready. She came loaded for a few times.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: She came she came ready to rip Pete's limbs from
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: his body and beat him with them. I'm pretty sure
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: she went into the parking lot after the debate and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: started challenging others to debates, just strangers.
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: She will fight any mayor.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Was he Klobuchar'd by the end?
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he got some cinch.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: From all that Pete?
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was he on Pete, Klobuchar'd.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Klobuchar'd. Well, you know everyone in the room hates me.
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: No, I don't.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: I think Klobuchar'd was so good.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: I will say, like, whether or not it was a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: tactical error by Warren, I don't know. But the larger
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: strategy from her I get, and it is actually an
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: electability strategy, right? She has now returned, and Lovett, you
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: mentioned this about she wanted to get away from the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Medicare for All debate. She's now returned to her strength,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: which is talking about corruption. And for the last couple weeks,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: she's been talking about the only way we're going to
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: beat the most corrupt president in history is with, you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the strongest anti-corruption reforms in history, and that's me. And
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: she's known for that, and that's her strength. And what
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: she's saying about Buttigieg is if we want the strongest
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: contrast in the general election between a corrupt president and
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: someone who's not, we can't have a person on stage
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: who's selling all their time for money and who's had
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: all these lobbyists and all this kind of stuff. And
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: so she wants to draw that contrast. So I think
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: that idea in general is a smart strategy from her.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Whether it was smart to do it on that stage
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: and not exactly be prepared for Pete being super prepared.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: as he always is, for these things.
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: She didn't close the loop, right? There was a way
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: to end it and say, look, you run your campaign
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: however you want. What I believe is the best way
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: we're going to beat Donald Trump is we have to
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: have someone standing on that stage next to him who
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: does not raise money the exact same.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Way Donald Trump does, right?
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was actually a couple. It's why I think,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: even though it is true, as Tommy famously said, Pete
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: took some heat. While it is true that across the night,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of people came for Pete, there were some
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: key moments where right when they were about to land,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I think, a really hard punch, they didn't. That happened
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: with Warren in this exchange. That happened with Amy Klobuchar
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: when she was about to basically say, you didn't win
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: in Indiana. You only won in South Bend. But it
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: just It was almost just right about to hit, and
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: he just evaded. Same thing happened when he reminded people
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: he would have nominated Anthony Kennedy to the Supreme Court. Again,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: didn't take a hit.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Why did she do that?
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: So as much as I actually thought Pete, for the
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: most part, took the onslaught well.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, Warren definitely got
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: her message out that she's the anti-corruption fighter. And like
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you were saying, Tommy, this will be known as the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: wine cave debate. So whether people know what wine caves
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: are or not. By the way, the funniest part, but
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: this is an aside, but our wonderful governor, Gavin Newsom,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: decided to get himself in there after the debate and say,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I was a wine guy. I started in a wine cave.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I never knew of a Rags to Registry.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: That started in a wine cave.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: When they came for the caves, who was left for me? Yeah,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: that was a weird thing.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And the other funny thing is Pete's Wine Cave dot
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: com now directs to Bernie Sanders' fundraising page, which is
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: very funny.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: It's not the last of the wine caves.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I think that is correct.
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: It's just so funny. It's the, like, Pete is in
• 27:45
  Speaker 5: every other non Warren Sanders. Ken has been raising money
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: and huge mansions and absurdly expensive restaurants for a year now.
• 27:54
  Speaker 5: And it was the wine cave.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: It's just vivid.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I will say as someone who just also hates money
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: in politics as, as we all do, like, I just
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: wonder about a campaign staff, just optics. Like, do we
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: need the fundraiser in the wine cave? I know. And
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you can see why this is the thought.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: You can see why this pisses Pete off so much.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Cause he was like, I was the fucking mayor of
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: South Bend. Do you think it's easy to raise money
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: as a 37 year old gay mayor of South Bend?
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: It is not. What he's done is extraordinary. And they're
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: rightly hammering him for it.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: It's like, it's like, do you, if you're going to
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: give money to Pete, Do you need to be fed
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: it in a wine cave?
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Now, here's another thing.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Do you need that, rich people?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Just give the money.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: And obviously not important, but I presume a wine cave
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: is windowless. Isn't there a more airy space with which
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: you can promise ambassadorships to rich people?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, so.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Just kidding.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: I probably didn't promise it directly. Probably implied.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: After Warren and Pete went at it... Amy Klobuchar decided
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: to jump in a little bit later by challenging Pete's
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: experience and electability. Here's that clip.
• 28:56
  Speaker 8: When we were in the last debate, Mayor, you basically
• 29:00
  Speaker 8: mocked the 100 years of experience on the stage.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And what do I see on this stage?
• 29:06
  Speaker 8: I see Elizabeth's work starting the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
• 29:10
  Speaker 8: and helping 29 million people. I see the Vice President's
• 29:14
  Speaker 8: work in getting $ 2 billion for his cancer moonshot. I
• 29:18
  Speaker 8: see Senator Sanders' work of working to get the veterans
• 29:22
  Speaker 8: bill passed across the aisle. And I see what I've done,
• 29:25
  Speaker 8: which is to negotiate three farm bills and be someone
• 29:29
  Speaker 8: that actually had major provisions put in those bills. So
• 29:32
  Speaker 8: while you can dismiss committee hearings, I think this experience works.
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: And I have not denigrated your experience as a local official.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I have been one.
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: I just think you should respect our experience when you
• 29:44
  Speaker 8: look at how you evaluate.
• 29:46
  Speaker 9: Someone who can get things done.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Senator.
• 29:49
  Speaker 9: Mr.
• 29:49
  Speaker 10: Mayor, I'll give you a chance to respond.
• 29:55
  Speaker 7: You actually did denigrate my experience, Senator. And it was
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: before the break and I was going to let it
• 29:59
  Speaker 7: go because we got bigger fish to fry here. But
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: you implied that my relationship.
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: I don't think we have bigger fish to fry than
• 30:05
  Speaker 8: picking a president of the United States.
• 30:07
  Speaker 7: You're right. And before the break, you seemed to imply
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: that my relationship to the First Amendment was a talking point.
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: As if anyone up here has any more or less
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: commitment to the Constitution than anybody else up here. Let
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: me tell you about my relationship to the First Amendment.
• 30:28
  Speaker 7: It is part of the Constitution that I raised my
• 30:31
  Speaker 7: right hand and swore to defend with my life. That
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: is my experience, and it may not be the same
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: as yours, but it counts, Senator.
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: It counts. Thank you, Mr.
• 30:40
  Speaker 11: Mayor.
• 30:40
  Speaker 10: Senator Klobuchar, you have 45 seconds to respond.
• 30:42
  Speaker 8: I certainly respect your military experience. That's not what this
• 30:46
  Speaker 8: is about. This is about choosing a president. And I
• 30:49
  Speaker 8: know my view of this is I know you ran
• 30:52
  Speaker 8: for to be chair of the Democratic National Committee. That's
• 30:55
  Speaker 8: not something that I wanted to do. I want to
• 30:57
  Speaker 8: be president of the United States. And the point is,
• 31:00
  Speaker 8: we should have someone heading up this ticket that has
• 31:03
  Speaker 8: actually won and been able to show that they can
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: gather the support that you talk about of moderate Republicans
• 31:10
  Speaker 8: and independents, as well as a fired-up Democratic base. And
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: not just done it once. I have done it three times.
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: I think winning matters. I think a track record of
• 31:20
  Speaker 8: getting things done matters. And I also think showing our
• 31:24
  Speaker 8: party that we can actually bring people with us, have
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: a wider tent, have a bigger coalition, and yes, longer coattails,
• 31:31
  Speaker 8: that matters.
• 31:32
  Speaker 10: Thank you, Senator.
• 31:35
  Speaker 7: I've got to respond to that. I've got to respond
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: to that. Senator, I know that if you just go
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: by vote totals, maybe what goes on in my city
• 31:45
  Speaker 7: seems small to you. If you want to talk about
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: the capacity to win, try putting together a coalition to
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: bring you back to office with 80% of the vote
• 31:55
  Speaker 7: as a gay dude in Mike Pence's Indiana.
• 32:02
  Speaker 9: Again, I would, Mayor, if you had won in Indiana,
• 32:11
  Speaker 9: that would be one thing.
• 32:12
  Speaker 8: You tried and you lost by 20 points.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: So let's start from the beginning here. Why do we
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: think Klobuchar decided that this was going to be her
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: thing to go after Pete like this? Because she went
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: after him a number of times. And so clearly, you know,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: they practiced this in debate, but it didn't come out
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of nowhere.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I think she thinks that Pete is in her moderate,
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: more electable lane in Iowa. And so she decided to
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: just hammer him.
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: And the best attacks are one that take down your
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: opponent and help you, right?
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Her.
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: She is the candidate who is running explicitly on electability.
• 32:48
  Speaker 5: And let's stipulate that how someone ran somewhere in the
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: past tells us very little about how they'll run in
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: the future. No one knows who was electable, caveats, stipulation,
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: et cetera.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: But we have that in the record.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Dan crossed himself. Can we submit it to the record?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: We've said the word electability.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: We will be canceled.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: We hate ourselves, yes.
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: Amy Klobuchar has probably the best.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Most specific.
• 33:15
  Speaker 5: electability story to tell.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: State-based, electorate-based, by far, not even close. No one up
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: there had won in a purple state statewide. Not Biden,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: not Warren, not Sanders.
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no one.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: None of them except Amy.
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: And she has been running explicitly on that. And I
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: think that has been a very good strategy for her.
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: I actually wish all of the candidates would make their
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: case for why they're the best person to beat Trump.
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: And I think the pundits should stop trying to tell
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: us who's most electable. I think the candidates should talk
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: about it and make their case. And Klobuchar did. And
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: it had the benefit of taking down Pete, who is
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: a bit risen a lot on a particularly specious case
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: of electability that has everything to do with certainly his
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: political talent and his smarts and his temperament on stage.
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: That cannot be denied. But there's also zero chance that
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: a woman or a non-white person who is the mayor
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: of South Bend, Indiana, who lost Indiana by 20 points,
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: we get the benefit of the doubt on that question.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: You were about to, I think, say something about this.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Talk about the lost Indiana by 20 points, because I
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: think one of the issues with sort of Klobuchar's rejoinder
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: there is she didn't quite explain to the audience what
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: she meant there, because a lot of people do not
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: know this piece of information.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: They do not know that when Pete ran statewide in Indiana,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: he lost by 20 points.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: And he ran for treasurer in 2010. He ran against Murdoch,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: who was a very, very bad right-wing Republican candidate.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: And I think the part of what we're talking about
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: here is the fact that Pete's case on electability has
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: been largely rhetorical. It's what he did at the Iowa
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: LJ dinner uh, you know, he basically says, if you
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: want someone on stage, you can basically draw this incredible contrast.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: And that's, that's a valid case for, that's a form
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: of an electability argument saying we want the biggest contract
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: with Donald Trump. He can't go after me for this
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: because I served in the military. He can't go after
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: me in this because I'm from the Midwest. He like
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: laid out a very, I think, strong rhetorical argument for electability. Uh,
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: and what Klobuchar is doing is saying that's entirely perspective. It's,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: it's not, there's no actual evidence in the world. And
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: I think it's extremely dangerous for Pete to be in
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: that territory because then you start to look at the
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: polls and you say, well, where's the coalition?
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: He has this one chunk of of the base. But then,
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: you know, the incredibly important part of the base of
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: of of people of color are just not coming to
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: his side. What's interesting is Biden Biden's electability argument. He's
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: been I think. His his perspective as well. You know,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: he's this he has this appeal, right, that he's this
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: he's middle class Joe. He appeals to moderates and it's
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: somewhat borne out in polling. But in fact, he also.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: but for being the vice president to Barack Obama, has
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: actually never proven this outside of Delaware himself, his previous runs.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Only Klobuchar.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Only Klobuchar.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: She did this again later when Bernie and Biden were
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: fighting about Medicare for all versus the public option. And
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: she again occupied this sort of like pragmatic, electable, Midwestern
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: stance where she said the political fight you're having is
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: not real. The people who are opposed to Medicare for
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: all are new members of Congress. It's the governor of Kentucky.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Like I'm someone who can bring them together. It was
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a theme and it was compelling, I.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I do think, I agree with all of that. And
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I think that Klobuchar's electability case and her making it
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: for herself, which is not just, I won in, in Minnesota,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: but she's sort of talking about flyover country and that's
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: where I live. And she's talking about the Midwest a lot.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: The one thing she said where she started that clip,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: which was, you know, last debate, first of all, whenever
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you say last debate, it's last debate, Pete, you know,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: you attacked us all for a hundred years of experience combined.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you about that experience. Elizabeth created
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Joe Biden got $ 2 billion
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: for cancer research, and so she went around. It was
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the closest thing, in my mind, to a debate exchange
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: that we would have had in 2007 between Barack Obama
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and Hillary Clinton, where she would talk about all her
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: experience and believe it was a plus, a strength, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: for many voters it was, and then Obama would say, yes,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: but you and all the other people who've been in Washington,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: which was all the other candidates, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, you've
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: all been there for a very long time, and people
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: are pissed off about Washington.
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: And you got the Iraq war wrong.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: That was the big one.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: That's what Pete is missing in this argument.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: But I wondered how effective that is to go back
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: and forth with him on we're all experienced. And then
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: she keeps calling him a local official, which is so funny.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of belittling.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: I will not stand up here and denigrate a local official.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: I was like, that is withering... that sent a chill
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: down the spine of her staff who have heard similarly
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: withering comments in the past. I was really impressed by
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: the way she made that experience argument because one thing
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: that I very much remember from 2007 is just how
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: plodding it was to make that argument. It felt, always
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: felt so defensive, like, It's like whenever you make fun
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: of DC and somebody responds on Twitter, it's.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Like, well, we have some great restaurants.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Usually like someone from OMB.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I actually was like, oh, wow, that was
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: like Amy Klobuchar in defending experience. And by making it
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: big and saying like crediting all these people, there was
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: more felicity in her doing that. than I'd ever seen
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: in a defense of Washington experience. She defended Joe Biden's
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: experience better than Joe Biden has in this entire campaign.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: John, that joke was such a deep cut. It was
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: in 2011, you sent over a draft of the State
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: of the Union to someone at OMB, and they replied
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: with a note that said, please stop mocking Washington.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: No, Barack Obama was going on the road after the
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: State of the Union, and he was in Montana or something,
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and he said, boy, it's great to be out of Washington, D.C.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: And I got a note from some person at OMB
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: that said, You know, some of us live here in Washington, D.C.,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: and we don't appreciate these attacks.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay, guys.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Was that an edit about numbers and budgets?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: We're not saying 8th Street doesn't have some nice places
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: to hang.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. No, we all lived there for a long time.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: We get it.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: So, Tommy, you briefly mentioned this, but we didn't have
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: our usual opening 45-minute exchange on Medicare for All. But
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: later in the debate, Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders and
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: then Amy Klobuchar did get into a disagreement about their
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: respective health care plans. Let's play that clip.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: It covers everybody.
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: It's realistic.
• 39:15
  Speaker 12: And most importantly, it lets you choose what you want. Here,
• 39:19
  Speaker 12: you have 160 million people who negotiated their healthcare plans
• 39:22
  Speaker 12: with their employer, like many of you have. You may
• 39:25
  Speaker 12: or may not like it. If you don't like it,
• 39:27
  Speaker 12: you can move into the public option that I proposed
• 39:30
  Speaker 12: my plan. But if you like it, you shouldn't have
• 39:34
  Speaker 12: Washington dictating to you, you cannot keep the plan you have.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Vice President Biden.
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: Senator Sanders, 45 seconds to respond.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: On the Jones plan, essentially, we retain the status quo.
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: That's not true.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: No, that's not right.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: And by the way, Joe, under your plan, you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: you asked me how we're going to pay for it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Under your plan, I'll tell you how we're paying for
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: it right now. The average worker in America, their family
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: makes $ 60, 000 a year.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: That family is.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: Now paying $ 12, 000 a year for health care, 20% of
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: the income. Under Medicare for All, that family will be
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: paying $ 1, 200 a year because we're eliminating the profiteering of
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: the drug companies and the insurance companies and ending this
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: Byzantine economy. and complex administration of thousands of separate health
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: care plans.
• 40:28
  Speaker 12: My name was mentioned.
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: I'm going to come to you in 45 seconds. 45
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: seconds for Vice President Biden.
• 40:33
  Speaker 12: I'm the only guy that's not interrupted here, all right?
• 40:35
  Speaker 12: I'm going to interrupt now. It costs $ 30 trillion. Let's
• 40:39
  Speaker 12: get that straight. $ 30 trillion over 10 years. Some say
• 40:44
  Speaker 12: it costs 20 trillion. Some say it costs 40. The
• 40:47
  Speaker 12: idea that you're going to be able to save that
• 40:50
  Speaker 12: person making $ 60, 000 a year on Medicare for all is
• 40:55
  Speaker 12: absolutely preposterous. 16% of the American public is on Medicare now,
• 41:01
  Speaker 12: and everybody has a tax taken out of their paycheck now.
• 41:05
  Speaker 12: Tell me you're going to add 84% more. And it's
• 41:09
  Speaker 12: not going to be higher taxes, at least before he
• 41:11
  Speaker 12: was honest about it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 5: It's going to increase personal taxes.
• 41:14
  Speaker 12: That's right.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: We are going to increase personal taxes.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: But we're eliminating premiums.
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: We're eliminating copayments.
• 41:21
  Speaker 7: We're eliminating deductibles. We're eliminating all out-of-pocket expenses.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: And no family in America will spend more than $ 200
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: a year on prescription drugs.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Senator Klobuchar, I will plan.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: Senator Klobuchar, we'd like to hear from you.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: It's the.
• 41:42
  Speaker 12: First time I did this.
• 41:43
  Speaker 8: Okay, that's true.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: I'll say this.
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: First of all, Bernie, I promise when I am your president,
• 41:49
  Speaker 8: I will get our pharmaceutical bills done.
• 41:52
  Speaker 5: And we have worked.
• 41:53
  Speaker 8: Together on this time and time again. And I agree
• 41:56
  Speaker 8: with you on that. But where I disagree is I
• 41:59
  Speaker 8: just don't think anyone has a monopoly on bold ideas.
• 42:02
  Speaker 8: I think you can be progressive and practical at the
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: same time. That is why I favor a public option,
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: which is a nonprofit option, to bring the cost down.
• 42:12
  Speaker 8: And yes, it does bring the cost down immediately for
• 42:16
  Speaker 8: 13 million people, and then will expand coverage to 12
• 42:18
  Speaker 8: million people. But here's the political problem. This fight that
• 42:22
  Speaker 8: you guys are having isn't real. Your fight, Bernie, is
• 42:25
  Speaker 8: not with me or with Vice President Biden. It is
• 42:28
  Speaker 8: with all those bunch of those new House members, not
• 42:31
  Speaker 8: every one, by any means that got elected in that
• 42:34
  Speaker 8: last election in the democratic party. It is with the
• 42:38
  Speaker 8: new governor, democratic governor of Kentucky, uh, that wants to
• 42:41
  Speaker 8: build on Obamacare. And the way I look at it,
• 42:45
  Speaker 8: if you want a bridge build, if you want to
• 42:47
  Speaker 8: cross a river over some troubled waters, you build a bridge.
• 42:52
  Speaker 8: You don't blow one up.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Extensive.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: So, uh, it's interesting, right? Because we've had this debate
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: many times. That was, I think, one of the sharpest
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: versions of it. I want to just note that Amy
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Klobuchar took that moment to moderate the debate herself, which
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: was a good move for her. Here's the thing that's
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: frustrating about the way Joe Biden debates about health care
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: is that we all pay for our health care. We
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: have a huge health care bill at the end of
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: the year and America pays it. Right now, we pay
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: it through taxes. We pay it through medical bankruptcies. We
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: pay it through out-of-pocket expenses. We pay it through our
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: companies paying for your private insurance. We pay it for
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: individuals paying in private insurance. And Bernie's point is completely valid,
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: which is if we move to a single payer system, yes,
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: there'll be more taxes. And on the whole, the costs
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: shift to the government. But on the whole, America ends
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: up spending less on health care and middle class families
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: end up spending less on health care by definition because
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: he's designed the system to shift costs up. And so
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Biden's argument about the cost is, I think, is just
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: sort of fundamentally specious. And it's why I think it was.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: It's why it's why I think when Amy Klobuchar comes
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: in with a political argument, I think that's the more
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: intellectually honest argument.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: See, I don't know about that because I do think
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's true, but the transition isn't neat and it's
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: not quick and it's not the same for everyone. And
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Bernie knows that, which is why he has a four
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: year transition period. They all have transition periods because the
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: moving from a private health insurance system where we have
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: all the hospital systems, the provider systems, an insurance industry,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: and moving all of that to one government health care
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: plan is quite disruptive over four years. And not every
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: person who is going to be paying more in taxes
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: is going to save the exact same amount in premiums.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Most people are. On average, it averages out. But the
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: costs aren't equal there. The other thing is when Bernie says, oh,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: it's the status quo. It's not the status quo. Biden's
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: plan is not the status quo. Amy Klobuchar's plan is
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: not the status quo. They are not as generous as
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Bernie's plan. They are not as expansive as Bernie's plan. Absolutely.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: But they are certainly not the status quo. They are
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: a vast improvement over what we have right now. Even
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's public option is more generous and bigger and
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: would cover more people than the public option that people
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to propose when Barack Obama was trying to pass
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act. So there's a little bit of
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: that going on.
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: I mean, the point that... A little bit of that.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: A little bit of that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: Like, the subtext of what Klobuchar is saying is, this
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: is not going to happen. We are having a dumb,
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: unhelpful argument. I'm not saying I agree with that, but
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: she is saying, look at who is in the House
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: right now. Look at our colleagues in the Senate. Even
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: if you, Bernie Sanders, come around on the filibuster, do
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: you think you're going to get Joe Manchin and Kyrsten
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: Sinema and Chris Coons?
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: Of course not. They've already promised they're not going to
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: do it. They've already promised, you know?
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: Like, look.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: If I'm a member of Congress and I'm sitting there
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: and you put a Medicare for all bill in front
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: of my desk, I'm going to vote for it. And
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: I'm probably going to tell everyone I can to go
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: vote for it. But like, I'm pretty realistic. It's not happening.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: Like the Democratic caucus. And we're not just talking about
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: like the Joe Manchins and the conservatives people we're talking about, like.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Middle-of-the-road Democrats, progressive Democrats. Sherrod Brown. Sherrod Brown from Ohio.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All bill. You can't
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: get Sherrod Brown on that. What are we talking about?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think Bernie just thinks the original sin
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: of our health care system is that there is a
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: for-profit element.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: He's right.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: And until you get that out, we're not going to
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: have the right system.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: He's absolutely right. I think that.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Most Bernie fans and Medicare for All advocates would concede
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: that the public option is points on the board. But
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: what I think frustrates them is before the primary has
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: even really started in terms of voting, Democrats that would
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: opt for a field goal rather than trying for a touchdown. And, like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: that's sort of the fight that's happening.
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: That's the extent of which Bernie has already been phenomenally successful.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:40
  Speaker 5: But she has shifted the Overton window so far that
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: most of his colleagues, many of whom are no longer
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: in the race, endorsed his bill, co-signed his bill.
• 46:48
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: The moderate side is a huge, massive public option.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: I was saying this when I did the focus group
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: in Arizona and they were all Romney Clinton voters. These
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: are 10 people who voted for Mitt Romney. And at
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: the end of the group, when we're having this Medicare
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: for all public option debate, they all go around to
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: a person, former Republicans as late as 2012. And they're like,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: we need a public option. That's what we need. We
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: need a public option. I'm like, The left has achieved
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: a huge victory here in moving the Overton window that
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: you have a bunch of former Republicans saying, I really
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: want a public election. That's big.
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: And I'm not saying that Bernie should stop making his argument.
• 47:22
  Speaker 8: No.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: He should keep pushing for it. Of course he should.
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: And if he was elected president, he should push for it.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: So let's talk more about Joe Biden, who I did
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: think had a really great debate overall. Earlier in the night,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: when he was asked a very good question about his
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: previous comments that normalcy will return once Trump leaves office,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: he had this to say.
• 47:46
  Speaker 12: With Trump out of the way, it's not going to
• 47:48
  Speaker 12: change things in a fundamental way. But what it will
• 47:51
  Speaker 12: do is it will mean that we're in a position
• 47:54
  Speaker 12: where he's not going to be able to intimidate the base.
• 47:57
  Speaker 12: His base is not going to intimidate those half a
• 47:59
  Speaker 12: dozen Republicans we may need and other things. I refuse
• 48:02
  Speaker 12: to accept the notion, as some on this stage do,
• 48:05
  Speaker 12: that we can never, never get to a place where
• 48:07
  Speaker 12: we have cooperation again. If that's the case, we're dead
• 48:11
  Speaker 12: as a country. We need to be able to reach
• 48:13
  Speaker 12: a consensus. And if anyone has reason to be angry
• 48:16
  Speaker 12: with the Republicans and not want to cooperate, it's me.
• 48:19
  Speaker 12: The way they've attacked me and my son and my family.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I have no, no, no love.
• 48:25
  Speaker 12: But the fact is, we have to be able to
• 48:28
  Speaker 12: get things done. And when we can't convince them, we
• 48:31
  Speaker 12: go out and beat them like we did in the
• 48:33
  Speaker 12: 2018 election in red states and.
• 48:36
  Speaker 5: In purple states.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Can I just say, can you imagine if he had
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: given that answer about cooperating with Republicans from the beginning
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: of the campaign?
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: He would only be winning by 30 points. I agree
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: with you. Him saying that if anyone has a reason
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: to be angry at Republicans, it's me for what they've
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: done to my family and my son, that was compelling.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: And then for him to make it about a bigger
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: picture question of what we can get done as a
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: nation was very powerful. I'm sure very popular in polling.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: And saying, you know, we can try to cooperate, but
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: then when they say no, then we go beat them.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Which was, I think that part has been missing from
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: some of his previous comments on this. I don't necessarily
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: still agree with him that with Trump gone, suddenly the
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: base isn't going to be able to intimidate uh the
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: other republicans because fox news will still exist all the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: right-wing uh media folks will still exist and they will
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: get the base going and they will still intimidate the
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: republicans but anyway well.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: It was the yeah but i actually think it's like
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: the closest thing joe biden has made for an argument
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: for actually why other than an epiphany which was nonsense
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: of like what could possibly change once trump is gone
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: and there is some truth at least the possibility of
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: there being some truth to the fact that there is
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: some possibility that once Trump is gone, there is some
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: piece of intimidation that is removed marginally from some of
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: the backs of these Republicans that could lead them to
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: behave with a little bit more integrity. Now, do I
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: know that that's going to happen?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: No.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: Does Joe Biden know that's going to happen?
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: Of course not.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: But at least it was not just a fantasy, just
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: a complete you know.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Back in the day when I used to work with them.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: Right. It's not that it's.
• 50:05
  Speaker 5: It's just the, it's the first time he has made
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: a credible case for how he could accomplish his agenda.
• 50:10
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: Like, do I think it's the most likely version of
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: what happens if Biden wins? Probably not. Like, I think
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: there are bigger problems than Trump, but it is, it
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: is believable. It is like, it is credible and he's
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: articulated it right. Like Bernie has a theory of a revolution.
• 50:23
  Speaker 5: Warren has big structural change. Like people have to have
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: an agenda of a theory of how they're going to
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: do things. And this is the first time Biden has
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: done it. And I thought he did it quite well.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: There was another interesting moment with Biden when he was
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: asked about the Obama administration's Afghanistan policy. Here's a clip.
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: Mr.
• 50:37
  Speaker 10: Biden, the question was about your time in the White House, though.
• 50:40
  Speaker 12: I'm talking about the White House.
• 50:40
  Speaker 10: In that Washington Post report, there's a senior national security
• 50:43
  Speaker 10: official who said that there was constant pressure from the
• 50:47
  Speaker 10: Obama White House to produce figures showing the troop surge
• 50:50
  Speaker 10: was working. And I'm quoting from the report here. despite
• 50:53
  Speaker 10: hard evidence to the contrary.
• 50:55
  Speaker 12: What do you say to that? Since 2009, go back
• 50:57
  Speaker 12: and look, I was on the opposite side of that
• 51:00
  Speaker 12: with the Pentagon. The only reason I can speak to
• 51:02
  Speaker 12: it now is because it's been published. It's been published thoroughly.
• 51:06
  Speaker 12: I'm the guy from the beginning who argued that it
• 51:09
  Speaker 12: was a big, big mistake to surge forces to Afghanistan, period.
• 51:14
  Speaker 12: We should not have done it. And I argued against
• 51:17
  Speaker 12: it constantly.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what did you think of that?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: First, I agree with him. I think we shouldn't have
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: surged troops in Afghanistan, and it was a mistake. It's
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: true that he was the voice in the Situation Room,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: often the lone voice, fighting against the Pentagon's proposed troop
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: increase and their broader strategy of coin and nation building
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: and all the things that were used in Iraq pretty well.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: He didn't think they applied there. So he's right. It's
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: most interesting that he finally decided right now to break
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: hard from Obama on a policy because he has repeatedly
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: declined to do so in previous debates. And I thought
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: this was compelling. Now the problem for him is that
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: Bernie then swoops in and just bludgeons him on his
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Iraq war vote.
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Do you, do you think Barack Obama would break with
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama right now? I think I personally think that
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: if he could have that decision back, he would not
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: have sent 33,000 troops or whatever it was.
• 52:10
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Um, Speaking of Obama, our old boss was brought up
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: in another question where the candidates were asked about his
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: recent quote that women are better leaders than men and
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: old men need to get out of the way. Here's
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: how the two women on stage, Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: respond to It is.
• 52:25
  Speaker 8: Not just about numbers. It's about what you get done.
• 52:28
  Speaker 8: And that is my argument. If you look at the
• 52:31
  Speaker 8: poll at the state that knows me best, and that
• 52:34
  Speaker 8: is the state of Minnesota, it showed in the state
• 52:36
  Speaker 8: that Hillary had her slowest margin of victory, it showed
• 52:39
  Speaker 8: that I beat Donald Trump by 18 points. I beat
• 52:43
  Speaker 8: him with men more than anyone on this stage. So
• 52:45
  Speaker 8: I think what matters in this election is can you
• 52:48
  Speaker 8: bring in those rural and suburban areas, particularly in the Midwest,
• 52:53
  Speaker 8: And number two, what will you do when you get there?
• 52:56
  Speaker 8: And I am someone that has passed over 100 bills
• 52:59
  Speaker 8: with men and women, with Republicans and with Democrats, including
• 53:03
  Speaker 8: changing the sexual harassment laws for the United States Congress,
• 53:08
  Speaker 8: a bill I led so taxpayers are no longer going
• 53:11
  Speaker 8: to have to pay for people that harass other people.
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: Senator Warren, you would be the oldest president ever inaugurated.
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: I'd like you to weigh in as well.
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: I'd also be the youngest woman ever inaugurated. I believe
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: that President Obama was talking about who has power in America,
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: whose voices get heard. I believe he's talking about women
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: and people of color and trans people and people whose
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: voices just so often get shoved out. And for me,
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: the best way to understand that is look at how
• 53:50
  Speaker 6: people are running their campaigns in 2020. You know, I
• 53:53
  Speaker 6: made the decision when I decided to run not to
• 53:56
  Speaker 6: do business as usual. And now I'm crowding in on 100,000 selfies.
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: That's 100,000 hugs and handshakes and stories. Stories from people
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: who are struggling with student loan debt. Stories from people
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: who can't pay their medical bills. Stories from people who
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: can't find child care.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: What do you guys think of the very different ways
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: that both women on the stage responded to the same question?
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: I like that Elizabeth Warren's basically, I think what Barack
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Obama meant was my stump speech. But the thing that
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: was striking to me about what Amy Klobuchar said is
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: it was, it made me just think for a second,
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: right now there's this question about whether Minnesota is a
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: swing state. If Amy Klobuchar is the nominee, it's not, right?
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: There's just this assumption that she'd do well there. And
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: what I was actually thinking while she was giving that
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: answer is, does that, is there any, does her appeal
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: in Minnesota apply in Wisconsin? Like, does she have goodwill
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: there built from years of just being from the neighborhood?
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: And so it was just interesting to me that she
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: took took a question about women as leaders and turned
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: it into an argument for why she's not just.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: She was honed in on that electability argument all night long.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: That she's not the most electable person, that she's the
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: best person to win, and that she has these accomplishments.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: So I don't know. I just thought Amy Klobuchar, on
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: the whole, in that moment and throughout the debate, just
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: had an incredibly strong night. If I were to say
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: my view on what happened in the debate, it was
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: Amy Klobuchar's debate.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: Anyone else on that?
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think Amy Klobuchar
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: had a strategy. And I think it also, it's taking
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: a step back. It's worth talking about how well she's
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: run her campaign, which is you get in this race
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: and we go back to January, a hundred years ago
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: when this thing started. It is probably shot. You'd be
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: shocked for somebody to tell you that when we get
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: to December, Kirsten Gillibrand will be gone. Beto O'Rourke will
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: be gone. Kamala Harris will be gone. And Amy Klobuchar
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: will still be there.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: And, she has run this campaign where you don't hear
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: a lot about her. And like, it's, it's, it's seemed
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: very disciplined. She had, and what I think is maybe
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: most notable is she has not given in to the
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: Twitter game of death and how she does it. Like
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: she's not out there looking for viral moments or trying
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: to surf whatever's trending to get attention for online donation.
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: And these are the things that the candidates I just
• 56:14
  Speaker 5: mentioned who no longer on the stage are mistakes they
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: made along the way that she has not made. So
• 56:17
  Speaker 5: now here we are 45 days from, The Iowa caucus
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: in a state that borders hers and she's in the game.
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: And that's a really impressive thing.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think if she does do well
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: in Iowa, it will be because of sort of a
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: Midwestern cultural affinity that people feel to her. And then
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: hopefully that would apply to Wisconsin. You know, I would
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: be pretty happy if I were her. I bet money's
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: rolling in. She's about to do a 27 county bus
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: stop in Iowa. And it's nice to go into those
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: things with a head of steam. It's worth noting, though,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: that Bernie's team just announced that they raised a million
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: dollars online today. yesterday. So that is a juggernaut that
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: just chugs along.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just going to say, it's also interesting
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: to note that Elizabeth Warren's answer is the answer that
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sure excited and inspired most progressives and women and
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: feminists and people who have, you know, done the work
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: of organizing over the last couple of years when she
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: said it's about who has power in the society, because
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that's the argument they're making. I think what Warren's challenge
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: now is, is what Tommy just mentioned, which is that
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Bernie has not, Bernie has strengthened, if anything, And so
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: she is now caught between a progressive base that still
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: really likes Bernie, and some of her support that's gone
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: down has gone to Bernie Sanders, and trying to make
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: the argument that she made against Pete last night, because
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: her and Pete are competing for a lot of college-educated
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: white liberals who might not be as progressive as some
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: of Bernie's supporters. And so she's sort of caught between
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: a couple candidates right now, and I think that's going
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: to be her challenge in the next month.
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the hard part is that group of
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: voters that surge to Warren and then have surged to
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: Pete are somewhat ideologically agnostic. They're the we have to
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: win voters, and they're very fickle.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Very fickle.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: Now, there are other groups who also believe we have
• 57:55
  Speaker 5: to win, like older African-American voters and white working class
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: voters who sort of have made their decisions as of
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: right now, and they've been sticking with it. But it's
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: going to be very interesting to see if Klobuchar rises more,
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: who that affects. Is that going to come out of
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: Biden or Is that going to affect Pete or Warren?
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Well, she thinks it's Pete. I mean, that's the other thing.
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: There's a reason she decided to make Pete the target
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: and not Warren and not Biden. I think a lot
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: of people have gone up against Biden and watched his
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: numbers remain pretty stable.
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: And it's because she legitimately hates Pete.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: I think that's part of it. I think that that
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: really does seem to be coming across. But I think
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: she views Pete's support as soft and gettable for her.
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: And I think also implicit in what she said about
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: being a woman candidate, she made that point about, I
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: do better with men than anyone on this stage. And
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: you know, This is somebody pointing to the fact that
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: misogyny has prevented the election of a female president, not
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: just in 2016, but in our entire history. And she's saying,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I have an argument about that.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Andrew Yang also had quite a night. He was his
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: usual funny self. I think arguably more human moments than
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of the other candidates on the stage. He's
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: just very real. And there was a really nice moment
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: where he was asked about being the only candidate of
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: color on stage. Let's let's play the clip.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: It's both an.
• 58:59
  Speaker 11: Honor and disappointment to be the lone candidate of color
• 59:02
  Speaker 11: on the stage tonight. I miss Kamala, I miss Corey,
• 59:05
  Speaker 11: though I think Corey.
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Will be back.
• 59:06
  Speaker 11: I grew up the son of immigrants, and I had
• 59:14
  Speaker 11: many racial epithets used against me as a kid. But
• 59:18
  Speaker 11: black and Latinos have something much more powerful working against
• 59:21
  Speaker 11: them than words.
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: They have numbers.
• 59:24
  Speaker 11: The average net worth of a black household is only
• 59:26
  Speaker 11: 10% that of a white household. For Latinos, it's 12%.
• 59:30
  Speaker 11: If you're a black woman, you're 320% more likely to
• 59:33
  Speaker 11: die from complications in childbirth. These are the numbers that
• 59:37
  Speaker 11: define race in our country. And the question is, why
• 59:40
  Speaker 11: am I the lone candidate of color on this stage?
• 59:42
  Speaker 11: Fewer than 5% of Americans donate to political campaigns. You
• 59:47
  Speaker 11: know what you need to donate to political campaigns? Disposable income.
• 59:53
  Speaker 7: The way we fix it.
• 59:56
  Speaker 11: The way we fix this is we take Martin Luther
• 59:58
  Speaker 11: King's message of a guaranteed minimum income, a freedom dividend
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 11: of $ 1, 000 a month for all Americans. I guarantee if
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 11: we had a freedom dividend of $ 1, 000 a month, I
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 11: would not be the only candidate of color on this
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 11: stage tonight.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: How'd you guys feel about Yang's answer there and just
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: his performance in general? I'm more and more in the
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Yang gang every time I see him on the debate stage.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: I'm charmed.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, first thing I thought was to the people
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: who ask, like, do these debates matter? Look at what
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: Klobuchar did. Look what Andrew Yang did last night. And
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: the answer is absolutely yes. If you maximize your time
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: up there, they do matter. I find Andrew Yang to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: be great at diagnosing the problem. I find him funny.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I find him human. And then he gets to his solutions.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: And I just never think that they're actually good ideas.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think the freedom dividend is a good idea personally. And,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: you know, but I'm glad he's up there and talking
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Very self-aware. you know, at the end, that last question,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: and he was like, America, I know what you're thinking
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: right now. Why is this guy still up there with
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: all these people?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Hilarious. Genuinely hilarious.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, I've said this before, and whatever
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: you think about the freedom dividend, I think he gets
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: up there and he says, hey, things really have changed.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: There are real, I mean, it's part of the Warren,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: Warren's case is more about concentration of wealth, but he
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: points to technology and other shifts in our society, and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: he says, look, there are really big changes that have
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: happened that have made people's lives worse. And we need
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: to be creative and we need to be imaginative about
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: how we think about those problems, whether it's AI or
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: globalization or what have you. And I do think that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: that willingness to be outside of the kind of consensus
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: democratic policy shop, I think has value.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: And by the way, I thought when Pete Buttigieg started
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: running as the candidate of generational change, he would have
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: more of that message. And I think he did when
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: he first started. He sort of lost it along the way.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 5: He did it in a wine cave somewhere.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: I know he did it. You know what, though? There
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: was one moment that was incredibly refreshing where for the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: first time, maybe in all of these debates, somebody talked
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: about rent. Like no one, just rent, like the high
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: cost of rent. Like the other, one other, I think
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: sleeper issue that's not talked about enough in any of
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: these debates. And it's something that I could see a
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Pete bringing up or a Yang bring up is traffic,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: you know, and commutes and people being forced to live
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: far from their homes and all of those kinds of,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes we've, we, the debates have been on
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: such big policy questions that we've sort of been a
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: little bit disconnected from like the basic struggles of people's lives.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Only candidate we haven't talked about Tom Steyer, Tom Steyer
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: and his tie. Any thoughts on Steyer last night?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: I thought his best moment was when he talked about
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Trump's immigration policy, it being about stopping non-white people from
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: entering the country as an effort to divide us. I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: thought that was honest. I thought it was direct. I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: thought it was clarifying. You know, I think he also
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: had a moment where he showed he was kind of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: a rookie debater because he made this kind of soft
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: attack on Pete on climate change. He's like, I wish
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: you would talk about it more, prioritize it more, which
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: then gives Pete 45 seconds to just make his stump
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: speech about climate change. And you kind of gave him
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: this gift like he didn't i don't know i didn't
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: wasn't uh moved too strongly.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Either way though yeah i think we we just talked
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: about how uh yang can be so human i think
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: one of steyer's issues is i don't know if it
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: was like how people have prepped him for debate but
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: he does all these debates he stares like straight into
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the camera and he doesn't feel as present as some
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: of the other candidates in the debate or is real
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: like he's sort of like reciting his thing and everyone
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: else kind of has their stories and stuff like.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be harsh And I'm going to say, like,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that Tom Steyer has supported incredible causes, and
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: I appreciate what he did to actually put impeachment forward
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: pretty early.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Though he took a little too much credit for that
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: last night.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: He did take a little too much credit. There's a
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: way in which he kind of feels like a tourist
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: up there. Like, he feels like he bought a ticket,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: and he did. So that is part of it. It's
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: just sort of, especially when everyone's games were so elevated.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, like, Andrew Yang fucking hustled to make it
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: to that debate stage, and so did every other candidate
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: on that stage, including the 37-year-old mayor of South Bend, Indiana.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: And he bought his spot, and... It means he hasn't
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: put himself through the paces and it comes across when
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: you're against, it's not 10 people, a few of whom
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: are nincompoops. It's, you know, there's no, there's no, it's
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: just a really, really strong field now. And I think
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: his inexperience at being a politician just sort of came through.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: I think the, the, the less harsh thing that I
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 5: would say is everyone should very rightly be concerned that
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: you can buy your, a billionaire can buy their spot
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: on a debate stage and Cory Booker and Julian Castro
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: and those other people cannot get there. Like that, that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: is a problem in our political system. But, I do
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: appreciate that Steyer is, he goes up there and he
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: doesn't attack anyone.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 12: It's true.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: Like he's decided that he has something he wants to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: say and he's going to say it. And like he
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: had a very tiny little attack on Pete, but not really.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: Like he's not like the Laney or these other guys
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: who are going up there trying to chop down these
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: other things. And for a billionaire, former hedge fund guy,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: he's quite progressive. And it's, I think it is, it
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 5: is helpful for the larger cause that you have a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 5: billionaire defending the wealth tax on national television.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Any other final thoughts on this debate before we say goodbye?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: I like having a septuagenarian Jew up on that stage
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: just crushing jokes.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Bernie is so funny.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: I was going to say that he is the funniest
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: person on the stage.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: He is so charming.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe Andrew Yang. He and Andrew Yang are the funniest
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: people on the stage.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: His little retorts, like when his hand was raised and
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: Biden yelled at him. When his hand was raised and
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: Biden yelled at him and he just said, I was
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: waving at you, Joe.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: He's got a great happy warrior vibe up there.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: He's really come alive.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Even as he's screaming sometimes at you.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: And honestly, he just feels like his health, like he
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: seems healthier and like kind of more positive.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: It just, you see it. Magical stint.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: He also is... Almost uncertainly, the person on that stage
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: with the best chance of being president as of right now,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 5: other than Joe Biden.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely the conventional wisdom on Bernie is he's
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: kind of a curmudgeon and he's so effortlessly charming up there.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: And we all know that the Joe Biden that you'd
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: run into the hallway who would like give you a hug,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: talk for 15 minutes and call your cousin after he's
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: like this gentle, kind man. And he seems so fucking edgy.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Everything Warren says somehow pisses him off 10 minutes later. Like,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: even the fact that she does selfie lines, he was
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: mad about.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: He was definitely better about this debate than others. He's just,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the one thing I would work on for Biden is
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: the defensiveness, you know? And it's got, it has gotten better,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: but it's just like, you can't be defensive.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: And honestly, it came out in hour three, which tells
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: me it's a guy that's just sort of.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: I'm standing on this fucking stage for two and a
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: half hours.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I do wonder on that, like, I think for someone
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: like Pete, Um, Pete is obviously the most, he's, he's
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: super prepared. He was ready for that retort with Warren.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: He's got all his lines. Like he's a very good debater,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: you know, but some, a little more warmth from Pete.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: You know, we talk about likability and warmth all the time. People, it's,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: it's a sexist thing. It happens to women too much.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: I would say for Pete, he could, he could like
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: loosen up just a little bit.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: There was a moment where I can't remember exactly what's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: the quote, what the question was, but there was a
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: moment where he kind of showed some spleen and he
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: got kind of very intense and And I think that's
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: his version.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: That was the Afghanistan.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was probably where it was. And
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: when he talked about how long he had been back
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: from Afghanistan and the war was still going on, I
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: thought he had a good moment.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: But yeah, overall, I agree. And I think Elizabeth Warren
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: is back on message with her corruption theme, too, and
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: is probably very happy that she got out of the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Medicare for All cul-de-sac there.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: Good foreign policy questions, by the way. Good work, moderators.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: And Bernie saying you must be pro-Palestinian as well on
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: a stage like that, that's a big deal.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: All right, everyone.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: That's our last pod for the year.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: If you don't count the one that we're going to
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: record in five minutes.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're the couple recording ones that we're doing too,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: but the last regular sort of pod that we're all
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: here for. Happy New Year, everyone. Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Happy Hanukkah.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: We're saying it again.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: So crazy, though. Thank you, Bill O'Reilly, for this legacy.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: Enjoy your holidays and all your wine case.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: See you in 2020.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: See you in 2020.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Carolyn Reston, Tanya Somanator, and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Katie Long for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Narmel Coney, and Yale Freed, and Milo Kim,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: who film and upload these episodes as a video every week.