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Creating Connection to Find Your Authentic Self with Tatiana Poliakova · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Durgeshont with authentic living with Roxanne.
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  So today, I have someone, you know, Tatiana and I connected that.
• 0:45
  I'm gonna say about a couple of weeks ago and, we had a quite a conversation that I was quite
• 0:52
  in impressed with.
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  And she's, been a high level executive and a female that has, I would say, lived a life that
• 1:01
  is quite fascinating.
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  And she's the CEO of her company, CEO being chief expression officer, which I love, that
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  title.
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  So Tatiana, thanks so much for coming on today to spend the time with my listeners.
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  Hi, Roxanne.
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  I'm so excited.
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  Thank you very much, for having me here.
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  It I had so much fun last time we connected, so I really look forward to our conversation
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  today.
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  Well, and I, you know, well, you probably could have just hit record then, you know, because we
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  we talked about so many things and to replicate the same conversation, you know, is difficult,
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  but I'm sure we'll get a lot out of things today.
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  So let's talk a little bit about you.
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  You've been, and levels of leadership, that I would say, you know, you've kinda hit the glass
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  ceiling in lots of different, high level executive positions mostly, male dominated kind
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  of a leadership positions.
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  But let's before we get into that, let's tell them a little bit about kind of your
• 2:06
  beginnings, like, and, so that people can kinda get a context and understand your frame of
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  thinking and and the space that you grew up in.
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  So tell us a little bit about, your upbringing and and a bit about, you know, what what kind
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  of things you learned along the way early.
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  Yeah.
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  So I actually grew up behind the iron curtain So I grew up in former Soviet Union.
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  And I grew up in the environment where from very early on, I learned how to speak the truth
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  to power.
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  So I was lucky to be born, and the family was So my my granddad, used to be a senior
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  executive in, well, in Soviet politics.
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  So he was actually at some point, the mayor of Thailand and then representative of Estonia in
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  Moscow.
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  And, my stepdad who raised me was one of the leading crooked scientists in literally rocket
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  scientist running a big part of a Soviet peace program.
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  And my mom, a doctor, So and I was the only child.
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  So being in that time of type of the environment, where your thinking is challenged.
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  And and I'm a little bit of so well, quite a lot of the rebel, I would say.
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  So it hasn't been always a smooth sailing.
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  There was a lot of, resistance sometimes from me and also there are a lot expectations.
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  So then, you know, one of the stories, one of the stories would probably I didn't realize yet
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  at that time, how much it defined me then?
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  Where now when I have been on the journey of human behavior, I realized how pivotal, like,
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  how important that actually was.
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  Because I was also quite dreaming chat.
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  You know, I I will I like looking in the window and dreaming about something.
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  And so I was doing in the school where we had the extensive German language.
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  And, And of course, it didn't contribute necessarily for my progress in the German, in
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  the German language itself, and so dedications can be quite strict.
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  And one day, when I was around 8, my mom was being called into school.
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  And then the one thing that I remember is walking back from that meeting that my mom had.
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  And the snow was falling, and I remember the snowflakes falling on my things, on my skin, I
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  see my mom's crying, and I'm thinking to myself, I wonder what did this teacher tell my
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  mom that it set her in that stage?
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  And, actually, what the teacher asked, which I later found out, is whether my mom, had a birth
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  trauma during my birth.
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  So because because, obviously, my progress in German wasn't very satisfactory.
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  So and and I think that was a moment when my mom came and the rocket scientist husband said,
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  well, no, Tatiana is not stupid, and we're going to make a graduate with honors.
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  So and that was a journey where also my own rebel self kind of said, yeah, I'm going to
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  prove to them.
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  And of course, I did have the support, of Yeah.
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  Of quite intellectual man in my life.
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  And, on the other hand, it's also created a lot of approaches and thinking about achievement.
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  Right?
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  So because, of course, then I'm thinking, well, if I don't achieve who am I?
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  So, of course, without that moment, I probably wouldn't end up where I was in in the
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  leadership in the city and wouldn't have had that journey.
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  On the other hand, also that moment created all the discovery, which I'm on right now,
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  discovery of my authentic self and helping my clients to be on that journey because who are
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  we without achievement and what actually achievement means?
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  Because so often, I worked with a lot of executives who are on the outside.
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  Have a lot of success.
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  And on the inside, feeling quite empty and unfulfilled.
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  So what actually success mean and what differentiates conventional success from true
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  success and from being successful from success, team.
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  I would So I
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  would think, like, coming, like, you know, like you're saying, growing up around the behind the
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  iron iron curtain.
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  Like, there are some assumptions that I would say.
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  Like, I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago.
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  So I grew up in an island and the perception that people have at me as well is is lot
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  different.
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  So only child growing up in a upper middle class, kind of I'm gonna say more, you know,
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  aristocratic potentially family.
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  I'm gonna assume and you tell me Tatiana because I think this is important that There
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  were certain there were certain expectations of you relatively quickly or early.
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  That was defining kind of the path you were gonna take.
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  So tell me a little bit more about some of whether it's implicit or explicit expectations
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  that you had.
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  Growing up in in the family you did.
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  Yeah.
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  Definitely.
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  Definitely expectations.
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  Expectations of, working as hard as one can at school expectation of, being good at maths.
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  Well, and that one probably came to me quite easy, with maths.
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  However, being putting a lot of effort in in in probably vera vera of subjects.
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  And and and and delivering results.
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  And, of course, I remember I remember my granddad told me that, Tiana, all this
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  knowledge that you acquire, that that that's your biggest asset because, you know, his his
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  family himself, you know, he, he comes from a Estonian family that actually during Soviet at
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  the beginning of Soviet Union was sent from Estonia to Kazakhstan.
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  And, I think he was one of the 4 children.
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  And his parents died very quickly.
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  It was, like, early 1920s because it's, of course, that changed, you know, from Estonia to
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  the and all the boys were put in different orphanages.
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  So believe it or not, my granddad, when he grew up, He was super grateful to Soviet Union.
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  And I asked him.
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  I said, Granddad, why?
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  Do you know, your family was moved?
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  And he said that So the union gave me education.
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  And and and so and that's what I was raised with.
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  I guess the sense of optimism Do you know, yes, there are challenges in life, but we're going
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  to overcome them.
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  And education is the most important thing.
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  So make sure you take the full opportunity of what, the country gives to you?
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  So that whole value of and I can think of my upbringing.
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  So with my ancestry, it's, you know, they moved to the Caribbean, in their early 1900s or even
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  1800s and from India.
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  So they came as indentured laborers from India, and I they believe some potentially on my
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  mother's side from the Middle East, And so in the islands, of course, as well, because it was
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  a British colony, the the the one of the first values I remember learning is as education is
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  power.
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  Yeah.
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  Right?
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  It's not unlike what you're saying about what your granddad learned after coming from
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  Estonia.
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  And in fact, you know, you have value when you are educated.
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  Yes.
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  Exactly.
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  Exactly.
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  And it means and and it means you have to pay attention, and it means you to work to the
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  hardest of your ability.
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  So that's that's definitely was an expectation.
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  And and there was always an expectation that I will go to university.
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  Mhmm.
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  K.
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  My mom used to say to me at three years old because, you know, Of course, the opportunities
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  weren't there with with my parents.
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  You know, they were smart people, but there wasn't the academic So the economic ability to
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  go to university.
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  My dad went on further as he became an executive, but my mom, became a nurse leader on
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  in life as well.
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  But earlier on, that was not there was not the capacity to be able to do that.
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  And I remember quite quite young thinking that, and being told you were who you're gonna go to
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  university.
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  I don't even know what a university was at.
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  You know, four or five years old.
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  But I remember thinking, that thought process being something that obviously had been told to
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  me relatively quickly and it was kinda like one of those things.
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  Did I even know what they did there?
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  Probably not.
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  But, again, that whole imbuing of the the beliefs that get put into you, which obviously
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  a lot of it is very, very positive, but I guess the other part of it, which we're gonna talk
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  more about is how do certain parts of you get locked off in the process, which is not a bad
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  thing in certain areas of your life.
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  Absolutely.
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  But in some other parts, like, you talked about the little girl that loved staring out the
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  window, and I'm curious about, you know, that space that you would go to, you know, maybe
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  German was the, the love of your life at a young age, but there must have been things that
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  potentially, I'd love to hear about what what kind of things that you find out about yourself
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  as you as as you kind of went on your journey and reconnected to that part of yourself.
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  Yes.
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  It's it's it's this creative part, and it's and that's and that's this dream of part.
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  So at that time, for example, I really wanted to be I wanted to write a book, for example,
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  right, and now I'm working on my book.
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  And and yet, Russian language was one of my weaker subject, So I remember having called
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  this fantasy and all the stories, which I put together, and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, but I
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  make so many spelling mistakes.
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  So so and, of course, everything, you know, the expectations are that you have to be really
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  good at what you choose.
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  So as a result, I almost, like, you know, almost that belief nobody told me you cannot be
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  right.
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  It's it's almost was a result of of this thinking of I have to be good, at what I
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  choose.
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  And as a result, oh, yeah, if I'm writing the spelling mistakes, I'm sure I cannot be a
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  writer.
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  Right?
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  So because it has to be perfect.
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  And now we all know that I cost writers and, you know, spellings, whatever.
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  There is, you know, what, the check checking, and it's all okay.
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  Right?
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  So so that's the the that's creative part.
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  And, Yes.
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  And also the stability to to mess up.
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  And
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  Well, and and that that the permissiveness now in and we talk about this.
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  Obviously, We'll talk a little bit about your kind of tenure as an executive, but, I think as
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  of late, maybe in the last be 10 years or so, we talk more about feeling your way to success.
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  That was not a concept, per se, that were was openly discussed, and I think it's more
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  permissive today.
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  Right?
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  Like, a failure way up to the top was not something that I learned as executive in my
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  twenties.
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  It was like, if you screw up, make sure it's not that big, so it's not gonna impact things
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  so you can kind of, you know, bounce back from the mistake.
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  But in today's day and age, we talk about failure as being such a key element to
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  succeeding in whatever path that you're taking.
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  That's true.
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  And I still believe in a lot of organizations for show and finance, it's still the subject,
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  which is, which is not very welcomed probably.
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  I think, well, HR executives, they understand that and some senior people that relate to
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  that, but it's not the culture, I believe.
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  So it's still I see it in my clients when I start saying, well, failure is away.
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  Way to work losing a job, right, because, of course, some mistakes can be very costly.
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  Right?
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  So if you if you are in charge of 1,000,000,000 of of dollars.
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  Right?
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  You don't want to make a mistake on one hand.
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  On the other hand, If the recognitions that we all make mistakes, and that's a way to grow was
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  more acceptable.
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  Then it might be that in some situations, the traders would speak about their wrong positions
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  much early on.
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  It might be that that they would bring it to the to the attention with much bigger openness,
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  and we might have been able then, to avoid the crises which we had.
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  So the the perception of perfection, and I and I'm I'm truly, you know, this is my thinking,
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  and I I can really understand it depending on the sector that you're in.
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  If you're running, like you said, multi, multinational, multi 1,000,000,000 dollar
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  company in finance, the difference of somebody not being microscopic could be detrimental.
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  But the counter side of what you're saying is that peep because people are petrified,
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  potentially to admit that there has been failures or there's patterns that would go
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  against the strategic plan.
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  People are less likely to come forward.
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  And like you said, some of these huge crashes that we've experienced in the eighties and
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  stuff like that with the bank industry industry or even in the US, what we saw, more than
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  likely, if if there was that ability to say, I know this is not this is gonna sound kind of
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  out in left field However, this is what I'm I'm seeing here, or I know it's something we've
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  never come up against, but this seems to be a reoccurring, theme then we might be able to
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  circumvent things that because you're allowing that person to be creative.
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  To be outspoken to to to potentially have possibilities and not feel like they're, being
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  viewed in a different lens that's not conducive to looking a certain way, say, in in banking or
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  in you know, engineering or all those kind of, you know, left brain kind of specific
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  industries, where, you know, it's more it's more Whereas I think some of the more, creative
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  kind of environments, it's it's we allow that a bit more.
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  Yes.
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  Exactly.
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  And and that's why the concept comes also if you look at the at the corp and corporate world
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  more from the world of technology, right, because I I I think in this book,
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  $3,000,000,000 coach, there is even example there, how the Google department, one of the
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  Google departments are actually celebrating what mistakes is made because because then,
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  actually, the people, the employees are paid even bigger bonuses.
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  Because, a, they tried something new.
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  And, b, as soon as they realize that they are going the wrong way, they spoke up about So
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  that's something that needs to be celebrated.
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  Because, really, we're talking about creating a confidence, creating a confidence in people
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  that will allow them to go to spaces that It's like a mind melt, right, if people can really,
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  think and be outside of the box and take a step into something.
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  You're gonna go and get to a, like, you're gonna be disruptive without a doubt for sure.
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  But you could probably come up with some amazing things.
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  Exactly.
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  Exactly.
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  It's having this psychologically safe environment that a little bit of the buzzword,
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  to have that environment where people can honestly press the point of view and all
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  honestly speak up where they believe a mistake has made and stand out to to so called failure
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  as as something as a path forward.
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  For example, my own coach, he sends flowers to his team when they mess up.
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  Right?
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  It's celebrating that.
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  Of course, if we continue making the same mistake day in and day out, this is not
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  something, you know, that's like, everything to the extreme becomes, you know, every strength
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  to the extreme becomes a weakness.
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  So when when it's a mistake from which we learn, that's fantastic.
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  What a great opportunity?
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  So let's talk about the industries that you went into.
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  Right?
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  So here you found, you learn the lesson about, you know, maybe I can't dream about maybe
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  potentially being creative in certain realms as a little girl.
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  So you kind of thought, I'm gonna go and focus where I'm really good.
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  And I said, like, your your rocket science, scientist's father, obviously, very left brain,
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  very analytical, math oriented, all that stuff.
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  So you kind of somehow figured out things, and then you learn the value of, hardware pays off.
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  And when I'm a good at a skill, if I get better, doors open for me.
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  And that's exactly what started to happen.
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  Tell us a little bit about where that took you on your path of leadership.
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  And, you know, I, you know, I know we're gonna get to the point where we talk about you know,
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  high achievement, but when there was something different that start to present itself for you.
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  Yes.
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  Thank you.
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  So it it is interesting when you actually were saying it, what also came to me is that, yes,
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  of course, it's it's living into one strength.
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  And yet, I didn't go and study maps.
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  I went and studied international economic affairs.
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  And and that one of the the first requirement was German.
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  So I actually actually when
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  I was circle back to the German again.
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  I circled back to the German.
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  Well, it was it was the first foreign language.
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  And for me, it was German.
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  So I knew that I needed to be very good in German.
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  And in fact, the same teacher who made this comment, she came to my graduation and
• 20:48
  apologized because she heard me speaking.
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  Right?
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  So and that's also taught me a very important lesson that even if somebody perceives, that
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  you might be not good at something.
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  Actually, if you put effort in it, you can you can become so good that you even go to the one
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  of the best universities, where this is a requirement and and also even go and live in
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  that country.
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  Right?
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  So it is possible.
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  So so hard work was kind of a very big component.
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  And also now when I'm thinking back, it's also ability to dream And, and for me, one of them,
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  there were couple crucial moments that opened open to doors, And one was actually when a
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  scholarship from Germany came to select, us from the university to go and study in Germany.
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  And, the girls, so they were like an old German group.
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  There were there were 13 of us that's already at university.
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  And there were 3 girls and 10 boys, and all the boys were invited.
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  And the girls were told not to come.
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  So be yes.
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  Because as my German teacher said at that time, well, you should be thinking about your
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  personal life.
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  Right?
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  Oh my gosh.
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  I was furious.
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  I was eighteen.
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  Getting married.
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  Right?
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  So I thought, I'm going to prove that I can get a scholarship.
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  And then I literally wrote so many letters to so I I think I I went to the library and Ira, I
• 22:21
  literally found all the possible German foundations.
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  And eventually, I found there was one.
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  I got so many nose, of course, talk about getting nose.
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  And it it didn't matter to me.
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  And then eventually, I got one fund foundation that was prepared to sponsor to finance me, to
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  finance my study in Germany.
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  So that was a very big moment.
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  Again, like, Antonio and sometimes late in life, I forgot disability to get so many noes
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  because once you become accustomed, to more easier.
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  Right?
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  Actually, once it becomes accustomed to more yeses as well.
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  And sometimes one needs to learn how how to go for noes.
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  Because there will be years in in the sea of nose.
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  Right.
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  So get the get the get the 50 nose out of the way first.
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  And then you by the 51st or 52nd, they're gonna you know, you're gonna have worn them down
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  potentially, and you're gonna get to a yes.
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  Right?
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  Which is a very male characteristic.
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  Let's go let's talk.
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  So let's talk about what you went on and, like you said, you were a pretty high up in the
• 23:25
  German Banking Industry.
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  So tell us a little bit about that because I wanna talk a little bit about that whole
• 23:32
  concept of that you're driven and you don't take no for an answer and how that kind of
• 23:38
  translated out into some of the steps and kind of those the step ups that you were able to
• 23:45
  make in some of these environments.
• 23:49
  Yes.
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  So if somebody So so when I, was in Germany, there wasn't an an an opportunity to go and
• 23:59
  interview, with Dresner Bank.
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  And, actually, I remember people were telling me, oh, Tatiana, but in order to get that job
• 24:08
  at the Residen Bank, you need to finish your degree in Germany.
• 24:10
  I was like, well, I'm going to try to do it, with my actual Soviet degree.
• 24:15
  And, again, there was there were many moments like this.
• 24:18
  You know, when somebody says, you know, and then when I got actually that job, in this
• 24:24
  management management training pro or management development program.
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  I was the young I was literally the youngest in that program because majority of Germans going
• 24:33
  for that program.
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  We're already late twenties, and they never have had anybody from former Soviet Union for
• 24:39
  sure at that time yet.
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  So it they they took a big risk on me.
• 24:44
  And and so often there were moments then, actually, they had to prove public interest of
• 24:49
  Germany, I think, to employ me at that time.
• 24:52
  And then there were a lot of difficulties for that.
• 24:54
  And, again, I went and investigated the legal them, and I connected with the, actually, with
• 25:01
  the head of HR address in the bank at that time.
• 25:04
  And I explained to him how exactly, do you know, where we have potential loopholes.
• 25:09
  So it was fascinating experience, even going through that process.
• 25:14
  And of course, not being from the system, from the country, that's also probably gives, a lot
• 25:21
  permission.
• 25:22
  Because I think when we grow up in particular system, in particular country, there is
• 25:27
  particular ways how we operate.
• 25:30
  And we think, okay, This is a dumb thing.
• 25:32
  This is not a dumb thing.
• 25:33
  So my huge advantage was that I came from totally different culture.
• 25:38
  So I just choose to be myself because I was not on the influence of those rules.
• 25:47
  So as a result, and also because I because by that time, I was so unusual.
• 25:54
  It's it's created many interesting meetings.
• 25:56
  So, like, for example, I would work directly with a board member of the Dresner Bank.
• 26:01
  And and the board members of the Dresner Bank would be sitting in a separate building.
• 26:05
  So, normally, you have to be almost like, you know, mid level executives to be able to speak
• 26:10
  to them.
• 26:11
  So it was unheard of that twenty two years old girl or young woman would support a board
• 26:17
  member of Dresner Bank And Negotiations with Gazprom.
• 26:21
  And yet, those opportunities sit ridiculously on one hand, what created almost for me.
• 26:29
  And I think the difference is that when there was a moment, I would just go for that.
• 26:34
  And and I remember a lot of my German colleagues in France, they might not because
• 26:40
  because they had all those memos, all those, you know, rules in the hat.
• 26:45
  Right?
• 26:45
  That's
• 26:46
  They had those they had those, like, memorized and you didn't get they didn't quite
• 26:49
  figuratively didn't give you the memo.
• 26:51
  So you just got kept going after whatever you wanted to at that point.
• 26:54
  Yes.
• 26:55
  Yes.
• 26:55
  And I think this is, almost this is a freedom And and this is almost a gift from being an
• 27:02
  outsider.
• 27:03
  Of course, being an outsider creates a lot of challenges.
• 27:08
  It also brings a lot of opportunities.
• 27:10
  Even looking at the accent, for example, right, nobody could judge my German accent or my
• 27:15
  English accent.
• 27:16
  Because, you know, nobody could place me where exactly I'm, well, they know I come from
• 27:21
  somewhere, like, in Eastern Europe, But you know how what I mean to them, when people when
• 27:28
  people connect with each other, there are certain particular biases, a certain particular
• 27:34
  stories without ourselves.
• 27:35
  And if somebody saw different, the right ones are just in that.
• 27:39
  So was it it it really, to some degree, was a gift the difference or the way you perceived
• 27:46
  it.
• 27:47
  Right?
• 27:47
  Again, be based on your mindset and kind of what you had learned was to work any card.
• 27:53
  Don't give up.
• 27:55
  And if if there's a shut door, there's probably a couple of others that you can try and keep
• 28:00
  trying.
• 28:01
  So that tenaciousness was something that I would say, you had from a very young age.
• 28:07
  Yes.
• 28:08
  Yes.
• 28:08
  Exactly.
• 28:09
  And an action now when even speaking with you, I'm thinking the fact that academic achievement
• 28:15
  probably didn't come to me very early on that easily.
• 28:19
  You know, so it's it was more secondary school when I really flourished around the primary
• 28:23
  school.
• 28:24
  That's probably helped develop those features.
• 28:27
  Right.
• 28:27
  Right.
• 28:28
  So let's let's talk a little bit about so, you know, you had went on and did some amazing
• 28:35
  things.
• 28:36
  Like you said at Dresna Bank and and and and bank in finance, in your executive career.
• 28:43
  So what what created the shifts for you?
• 28:48
  Like at some point, you may start to make shifts from being an executive at that high
• 28:53
  level.
• 28:55
  To be doing what you're doing today.
• 28:57
  So tell us kind of what that path was and and going back again, I'm, you know, I'm curious
• 29:04
  about the story about the authentic self and and where it brings you today.
• 29:09
  Yes.
• 29:09
  Sure.
• 29:10
  Sure.
• 29:10
  And it has been a long journey because, Drazna Bank was at the beginning.
• 29:14
  And then, you know, I I left it all behind, and I went to the United States still in pursuit of
• 29:20
  my, really American dream and and, you know, the American business school.
• 29:24
  And then, you know, the many other banks later, I remember when I was, at this business school,
• 29:30
  it shows also the journey.
• 29:33
  I literally wouldn't go to classes.
• 29:36
  If they didn't have foremost in them.
• 29:38
  So if we go to, like, nineties, that's, well, I had to go to human behavior class to get a
• 29:43
  pass, and I would do that.
• 29:44
  But I couldn't get it.
• 29:45
  I was like, come on.
• 29:46
  It's such a soft subject.
• 29:48
  Right?
• 29:49
  Like, you know, give me a black shoes formula.
• 29:52
  Like, why are they teaching us something like human behavior?
• 29:55
  You know?
• 29:58
  And and that's interesting because the more I progressed on my journey, the more I realized
• 30:05
  that actually those skills that I described at that time are soft skills that the most
• 30:11
  important skills in life.
• 30:13
  So because, you know, no one would enter would enter banking, in those position at this level
• 30:20
  without without knowledge of maths.
• 30:22
  That's almost like prerequisite, right, or or without, like, you know, certain level of IQ
• 30:27
  and and dedication.
• 30:29
  However, what really differentiates people who who become inspiring leaders, And from from
• 30:39
  producers, right, is is this emotional intelligence?
• 30:45
  And and then what is much more further than that is that could create, a certain
• 30:53
  conventional success and give us achievement.
• 30:55
  However, if we are not aligned with our own mission, with the impact that we want to create
• 31:03
  in the world.
• 31:04
  And eventually, the sense of emptiness will set in.
• 31:08
  So for me, So I I enjoyed my I I really enjoyed my journey.
• 31:14
  And, actually, I remember, in my mall later days of investment banking when I was working
• 31:21
  on a trading flow with Nomura.
• 31:24
  I I I really I was getting so much buzz from closing the trades and, you know, adrenaline.
• 31:32
  And yet one day, adrenaline was gone.
• 31:35
  It just disappeared.
• 31:36
  Right?
• 31:37
  And it's felt to me that I was trading, like potatoes and oranges.
• 31:44
  Rather than selling 100,000,000 loan here and there.
• 31:49
  So And yet, I was so terrified of making a change because I worked so hard for where I was
• 31:58
  And I was one of very few women, in the front office who was actually working 4 days a week.
• 32:06
  In fact, I was promoted to manager director while working 4 days a week, which was unheard
• 32:11
  of, in our organization.
• 32:14
  So I thought, oh my gosh.
• 32:15
  If I make any change That's scary.
• 32:19
  I should be grateful for what I have.
• 32:22
  And for a couple years, I was literally You know, that's almost like a the other side of
• 32:27
  gratitude.
• 32:28
  That's what, you know, I tell my clients, yes, practice gratitude gratitude is super
• 32:32
  important.
• 32:33
  But make sure it's a gratitude of creation.
• 32:36
  Make sure it's something where you're grateful to yourself for for what you created.
• 32:42
  Not something what you are afraid of losing.
• 32:45
  And, and then at some point, I realized, yeah, I'm I'm losing the joy.
• 32:52
  And I'm not nothing is worth that I want to have the joy back.
• 32:58
  And I started thinking, what actually does give me joy?
• 33:01
  And, of course, I did have opportunity in my in my journey in banking to coach, even to coach
• 33:07
  sometimes my manager and, you know, and to coach my team without knowledge of what what
• 33:13
  exactly coaching case, but then I was fascinated by why is it that some some people
• 33:21
  have on the outside everything.
• 33:23
  Right?
• 33:23
  And And then when I get to know them more, they have so much emptiness and pain inside.
• 33:30
  And then, you know, this realization that money doesn't remove that.
• 33:34
  And actually position doesn't remove that.
• 33:37
  And actually, achieving certain level of success, it just creates different types of
• 33:42
  problems.
• 33:43
  And the the the more senior you become, the lonely it is at the top.
• 33:48
  Right?
• 33:49
  So it's it's it's connecting with its authentic cells.
• 33:54
  It's it's realizing what actually my needs, what actually I'm going for, and then creating
• 34:00
  from that place.
• 34:02
  Being honest, being honest with oneself, if about all needs, what what I'm creating, and
• 34:09
  what I'm communicating and what actually gives me the sense of belonging and sense of
• 34:14
  connection.
• 34:15
  So how did you do that?
• 34:16
  How how did you you know, because you go into a high paced, environment where, you know, like
• 34:26
  you're right, like you would be coaching, but I would think, the kind of coaching, was it more
• 34:31
  on the business end, or was it that you were doing overall coaching or you didn't At that
• 34:36
  point, you were assisting people in ways that was making them get connected, and that's when
• 34:41
  you started to recognize that you wanted something different.
• 34:44
  How did you kind of start to listen?
• 34:46
  Right.
• 34:47
  So it it and, of course, it wasn't I didn't have a position of a court at all or, it it
• 34:52
  wasn't even cold coaching.
• 34:53
  It's if for me, it was that, well, I connect with people well.
• 34:59
  And sometimes, some people, would reach out to me and we would have a conversation and say I
• 35:06
  was working on a trading floor.
• 35:08
  And there is a relationship with Investment Banking.
• 35:11
  And there was one particular manager who opened up to me and with his challenges.
• 35:17
  Actually both in his private life and with a relationship with Investment Banking.
• 35:21
  And and and I'm really grateful to to to him because it's really made me look deeper in a
• 35:29
  human behavior.
• 35:30
  And, eventually, I I asked him, I said, can you please work with a life watch when, you know,
• 35:35
  when when the boundaries were a little bit, I felt, actually, it's taking me in slightly
• 35:39
  different direction from my role at the time.
• 35:42
  So but it's intrigued my real interest in human behavior and in psychology.
• 35:47
  And, you know, I was missing it a big time myself.
• 35:51
  Right?
• 35:51
  So it's not like, I was just scratching the surface tiny bit.
• 35:57
  I remember I was in a lot of pain.
• 36:00
  Right?
• 36:01
  So I I was I I I wasn't having adrenaline anymore.
• 36:06
  Right?
• 36:06
  So it's not like that.
• 36:08
  I was completely flourishing on the outside that looked quite nice.
• 36:13
  But on the inside, there was a lot of pain.
• 36:16
  So it's, It's it's it's helped me to get to go on a journey.
• 36:23
  Right?
• 36:24
  It helped me to make that step eventually and to say, you know what?
• 36:27
  I am going to make change in my life.
• 36:30
  And probably if I knew then what I know now and where I try to support my clients, I could have
• 36:36
  made potentially a different decision, right, because there are different ways, like, it's
• 36:43
  not for everyone to live an organization because I tell my clients, look, if if all
• 36:49
  people who are connected with with themselves leave the positions of power, it doesn't serve
• 36:54
  anyone.
• 36:55
  We want people in power.
• 36:57
  We want people in finance and power of technology.
• 36:59
  The ones who are driven by compassion.
• 37:02
  The ones who are driven by creating the impact in the world because then really those
• 37:11
  industries can start serving us as humanity rather than the other way around.
• 37:16
  Right?
• 37:16
  Sure.
• 37:17
  So for executives listening, right, I'm sure there's people thinking, well, She's kinda
• 37:21
  reading my mind or I felt like that for a while or and, like, to your point, we're not
• 37:27
  suggesting that everybody go off here and, you know, quits or or, you know, you may not be you
• 37:32
  may see in the industry that you're in.
• 37:35
  But what I hear is that what you're suggesting is connection to yourself to create alignment
• 37:42
  for whatever path you're gonna take.
• 37:43
  I, I think that's what you're, you're suggesting.
• 37:47
  Exactly.
• 37:47
  Exactly.
• 37:48
  It's connecting with oneself and all and and understanding all needs, understanding also
• 37:53
  asking oneself.
• 37:54
  Okay.
• 37:55
  How do I actually How do I actually create a sense of belonging?
• 37:59
  Right?
• 38:00
  So because we all as humans and have 2, like, probably main needs We want to be free to
• 38:07
  express ourselves, and we want to belong.
• 38:10
  Mhmm.
• 38:10
  Right?
• 38:10
  And ideally, I ideally, we can belong by being fully ourselves.
• 38:19
  Mhmm.
• 38:19
  And that's a dilemma.
• 38:20
  Right?
• 38:20
  And that happens whether you are senior executive or whether you doing anything else.
• 38:26
  Right?
• 38:26
  So I'm actually asking Kwanzaa, what actually does give me a sense of belonging?
• 38:31
  When did I feel connected to my colleagues?
• 38:34
  Last.
• 38:35
  Right.
• 38:35
  And what do I need to do for that?
• 38:37
  What do I need to ask for?
• 38:40
  Right?
• 38:41
  And And and how can I give opportunity to people to ask me for something what they need?
• 38:49
  Right?
• 38:49
  I think if if a lot of people are in the same space, right, and they're disconnected.
• 38:55
  And they're not connected to their true authentic self as a, as a leader, they're in
• 39:00
  turn going to impact the people around them.
• 39:02
  Right?
• 39:03
  100%.
• 39:03
  So, you know, if you're unconscious about your own needs to your point, like you said, when
• 39:08
  you realize I'm on the treating floor, and I'm not getting I'm not getting that surge of
• 39:13
  energy and the enjoyment I used to.
• 39:15
  You recognize that something had shifted within you where you were not no longer connected to
• 39:20
  that space in yourself that brought you the joy that you would have had from trading.
• 39:24
  And at that point, you started to take some steps to to to understand it or to do something
• 39:30
  different.
• 39:31
  Yes.
• 39:32
  Yes.
• 39:32
  Exactly.
• 39:33
  Exactly.
• 39:33
  And that takes courage.
• 39:35
  Right?
• 39:35
  So I remember, when when I heard like tiny acts, of kindness, and I thought, how about
• 39:41
  tiny acts of courage?
• 39:45
  Because, I remember when I was working on a trading, so I thought, oh, the courage is for
• 39:50
  people who, for doctors, for nurses, for, people who save our lives, right, for,
• 39:58
  fabricate, And now I'm thinking, no, college can be anywhere.
• 40:04
  Like, how about college for speaking up?
• 40:08
  For for a colleague who's being, who's bullied.
• 40:11
  How about courage for saying that something is wrong?
• 40:16
  How how about courage of for speaking up for your own needs?
• 40:22
  So for the CEOs that might be listening or the you know, people have the C suite in certain
• 40:28
  industries.
• 40:32
  That may not have the, but I shouldn't say they still have the capacity.
• 40:36
  Maybe their industry has always had the backdrop where there hasn't been this
• 40:40
  remissiveness.
• 40:43
  And we know in this day and age, more than ever, Tatiana, that we want we want to
• 40:48
  experience the people we're working with.
• 40:50
  We want The leader the leader has to create outcomes.
• 40:54
  He has to repurchase boards, profit sharing, all that stuff still has to get taken care of.
• 40:59
  Right?
• 41:01
  So you you you can't be authentic and not have outcome because we're gonna have a lot of
• 41:05
  friendly people and nothing's gonna get done.
• 41:08
  We need both.
• 41:09
  Right?
• 41:10
  But if you try to create that shift and you're, like, recognizing that your industry, hasn't
• 41:16
  had that context in the past, What are some small courageous things that these people at
• 41:22
  the C suite can start doing to start making the shift?
• 41:27
  Yeah.
• 41:28
  That's that is a very good point.
• 41:29
  I think so often, even understanding of outcome is very different.
• 41:34
  And so often the there haven't been honest conversations, you know, that's like, even to
• 41:39
  have that discussion with the team, say, okay.
• 41:42
  Actually, what is our mutual goal?
• 41:46
  Not the goal of marketing department or finance department.
• 41:50
  What actually our mutual goal is as a team.
• 41:54
  And then actually creating the environment of trust that people can express truly what what
• 42:02
  actually that goal is.
• 42:04
  You know?
• 42:04
  And then and then actually expressing their points of view about whether we are on the
• 42:10
  right path, honestly, because how often the elephant in the room is not expressed.
• 42:15
  I was in the meetings where I remember People keep on like talking about, oh, we are going to
• 42:23
  increase, our market share by so and so, like, no.
• 42:30
  We are going to like, this year, we have been trading 5,000,000 next year.
• 42:33
  It will be 8,000,000.
• 42:36
  And everybody's like, yes, that's what we are going to do.
• 42:38
  I'm like, okay, wait a minute.
• 42:40
  Where is it going to come from?
• 42:41
  Is it going to are you going to get a market share from someone at that extent?
• 42:45
  Or is the market going to grow at that extent?
• 42:47
  You know, and I'm simplifying it, of course, to make it clearer, but So often people are afraid
• 42:54
  to ask basic questions because they're afraid that they might come across or a silly or, you
• 43:00
  know, I should have known it before.
• 43:02
  An action to create the environment of your SEO where people can ask us silly questions because
• 43:07
  they are the most probably valuable questions.
• 43:10
  Because from those questions, you also can understand whether everybody is really on
• 43:14
  board.
• 43:15
  And you people can only commit when they able, they were able to express their point of view.
• 43:22
  An action?
• 43:23
  Yeah.
• 43:24
  For sure.
• 43:24
  But I think what happens is sometimes, and I think of my some of the corporate environments
• 43:30
  that I've been in, and you have people talking about expectations or or maybe, like you said,
• 43:38
  projections, and everybody has the, you know, water, you know, cooler talks, and then you go
• 43:44
  into these meetings and the same people that you're thinking, oh my god.
• 43:47
  You were you were saying the exact same things I was.
• 43:50
  And all of a sudden, somebody speaks up and nobody says anything.
• 43:54
  And you're like, was I just were we just all talking about the same things where we saw this
• 44:00
  and this and this wasn't gonna be possible.
• 44:02
  This is gonna fall apart or this is not realistic.
• 44:05
  Off a set the courage escapes the meeting rooms.
• 44:13
  Yeah.
• 44:13
  So it's interesting that you're talking about small active acts of courage because it it is
• 44:18
  so true because it's almost like people are afraid to speak up based on the the context or
• 44:24
  or the level of stress that they have.
• 44:25
  And I can think of multiple times in different environments that I've been in.
• 44:30
  Where you're like, what happened to everybody?
• 44:32
  They were all around for the hills.
• 44:34
  Yes.
• 44:35
  And that's why it takes time and it takes work.
• 44:38
  And it's I always say takes work starting with the leader, and then it's a systemic approach
• 44:43
  to the team.
• 44:45
  That's why the teamwork is also so important because the system would carry a lot of trauma
• 44:51
  as well.
• 44:52
  It's not just individuals.
• 44:53
  You know, if the organization went for a lot of redundancy, there will be that type of energy
• 44:59
  will be there.
• 45:00
  They so often also I remember myself, you know, when I joined Nomura, for example, there was a
• 45:07
  person there who was there longer than me, and I joined at the same level as that person.
• 45:14
  However, I was given much sooner some of the big accounts.
• 45:19
  And actually now with what I know, acknowledging that she was there before me,
• 45:23
  would have created very different environment, like acknowledging of the timeline, which is
• 45:28
  not done.
• 45:29
  And there are some fantastic workshops that we're on to to do that.
• 45:33
  It releases the energy.
• 45:35
  It's it helps people to create a psychological safe environment.
• 45:39
  Right?
• 45:39
  And and that takes time.
• 45:41
  That takes work.
• 45:42
  It takes one small step at the time.
• 45:44
  And as you say, courage escapes the room because fear is one of the most contagious
• 45:48
  emotion.
• 45:50
  And even acknowledging that, you know, the labeling that it's already that the
• 45:55
  neuroscience has proven that when we label our emotions, the cortisol drops.
• 46:00
  Mhmm.
• 46:01
  Name it to tame it, like they say.
• 46:02
  Right?
• 46:03
  Exactly.
• 46:04
  Exactly.
• 46:05
  Exactly.
• 46:06
  Yeah.
• 46:07
  So let's talk a little bit about, energy.
• 46:12
  And I know I've I've taken, you know, I've taken a lot of your time already, and what are
• 46:18
  some tips that you can give people just to, align because I I clearly that's what you do as
• 46:26
  the chief, energy officer.
• 46:28
  You align people, and I would say with their meridians, with their their sent you know,
• 46:34
  there's lots of things that we like, I know that I do when I coach, you know, individuals
• 46:40
  and organizations to get them centered because that full self or that shadow self is often
• 46:46
  there.
• 46:46
  That's the part that, you know, we bring along and we second guess ourselves, but we don't
• 46:51
  oftentimes take take the time that's needed.
• 46:54
  So what come what are some, you know, steps that you might be able to leave with people to
• 46:58
  start thinking about, or maybe even a step that they could take say within the next twenty 4
• 47:03
  hours to start this process.
• 47:05
  Oh, sure.
• 47:06
  There are some simple things.
• 47:07
  It's it's realization that when when we are triggered, whether it's, somebody says
• 47:14
  something or some event is happening.
• 47:16
  Actually, the first thing would get switched on is our lizard brain, right, our oldest brain.
• 47:21
  And that's the and and that's, as as you know, gets switched on so fast.
• 47:26
  Right?
• 47:26
  Because because actually our laser brain doesn't differentiate whether it's an animal
• 47:31
  running after us or whether it our boss at something, unfortunate that trigger does.
• 47:37
  It's the same thing.
• 47:38
  The only thing what lizard brain wants to know is am I going to survive?
• 47:42
  And is my offspring surviving.
• 47:44
  Right?
• 47:45
  So and and it needs to be very fast.
• 47:48
  Right?
• 47:49
  And before even thoughts of beliefs appears, There are particular sensations in our body
• 47:55
  that happen and actually connecting, starting to recognize those sensations just literally
• 48:02
  thinking back of the moment when we were treated in our personal life or professional
• 48:07
  life.
• 48:08
  Thinking, where did I feel it in my body?
• 48:11
  Mhmm.
• 48:11
  Did I feel it in the chest?
• 48:13
  Did I feel it in my stomach?
• 48:15
  Because once we recognize that, then we can know, okay, it's my laser brain.
• 48:21
  Now I can do something about that.
• 48:23
  Now I need to switch on my prefrontal cortex.
• 48:26
  And, of course, a simple tool is breathing, but sometimes when we're in that situation, it's
• 48:31
  difficult to breathe.
• 48:32
  Right?
• 48:32
  I'm like,
• 48:33
  some.
• 48:34
  Yeah.
• 48:34
  Shallow breath and and less oxygen into the brain and confusion.
• 48:39
  And then that becomes a reality, and it it it tips us back to every time we've kinda felt
• 48:43
  state, which kind of tips us in the wrong direction.
• 48:47
  So really starting consciousness and awareness, right, at anything that you could do to start
• 48:53
  to do that.
• 48:54
  Now I know you do phenomenal work and you have, some programs that you're running for anybody,
• 49:01
  if you wanted to tell them about it and if they wanted to connect with you, tell them where
• 49:07
  they can reach you.
• 49:08
  Yes.
• 49:09
  So, I hang out on LinkedIn quite a lot.
• 49:13
  A little bit on Facebook, but mostly on LinkedIn.
• 49:17
  And there is my website, www.tianaceoroneword.com.
• 49:24
  And, we run programs together, on the adapter brand.
• 49:29
  So it's ADA ptaa.co.uk.
• 49:34
  So we actually run a program for for leaders.
• 49:37
  Well, actually, people at different stages, of their leadership because diversity creates the
• 49:42
  biggest insight, which we call amazing humans.
• 49:46
  So if you're interested, come and explore it, I'm happy to have a discovery call.
• 49:51
  We also run program for inspiring women peer coaching program, which has been very popular
• 49:56
  with private equity funds and banks.
• 49:58
  So come and we can have discovery call and have a conversation and see, how we could
• 50:05
  potentially can support you.
• 50:07
  Awesome.
• 50:08
  Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 50:10
  I think, what a fascinating story and, you know, for any executive that has kind of
• 50:17
  hardened, like you said, if you're still in that space and you're enjoying it, that's one
• 50:21
  thing, but maybe potentially this could be things that you could be doing just to get
• 50:27
  reconnected to yourself in a way that allows you to take better care of yourself.
• 50:32
  It doesn't mean that you may be in the wrong fits But if you're feeling that, I call it the
• 50:37
  nudging inside that says something's not right, that inner space that you can go into that
• 50:43
  Tatiana talks about is the spaces has the it has the answers.
• 50:48
  But, you know, sometimes you're in environments that are diametrically opposed to you slowing
• 50:53
  down, so you really, really have to make a concerted effort.
• 50:58
  To slow, to learn, and to listen so that you can make the changes that may you may need to
• 51:04
  to be reconnected to your authentic self And then eventually what happens is when you learn
• 51:09
  to listen on that level, the answer slowly come, and you have experts like Tatiana to help
• 51:15
  you along the way.
• 51:16
  Thank you
• 51:17
  very much, sir.
• 51:18
  So thank you for your time for everybody.
• 51:20
  If you're wanting any information on authentic leadership for yourself and your teams, you can
• 51:27
  reach me at Roxanne.
• 51:29
  Derhodge for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 51:37
  healthy change.
• 51:38
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne.
• 51:44
  Visit rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 51:48
  We'll see you next time.
• 51:50
  On authentic living with Roxanne.