Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP12 - Does Modern Heathenry Need An Althing? (feat. Robert Sass)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP12 - Does Modern Heathenry Need An Althing? (feat. Robert Sass) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  Hello everyone and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:04
  podcast where we discuss all sorts.
• 0:06
  Of things Germanic Heathenry related, my name is Jesse.
• 0:10
  I am your host. Let's get into it.
• 0:32
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  Visit our online store at the alvateer.com and discover the
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  beauty of mountain spirit. All right folks, welcome back to
• 1:07
  this week's episode of the podcast.
• 1:09
  This will be a fun one. I've been looking forward to
• 1:11
  this particular episode with my guest this week for quite some
• 1:15
  time. He is a return guest and is a
• 1:18
  wealth of knowledge and information when it comes to Old
• 1:21
  Ways Saxon Heathenry. He is a Reconstructionist
• 1:26
  heathen, trying to observe the ways of his dramatic ancestors
• 1:32
  as true and as close to the ways that they may have observed them
• 1:37
  as possible. He has a blog site called
• 1:41
  alsidu.com. He also has a Facebook group
• 1:46
  called Alsidu Saxon Heathenry. He also has a Facebook page
• 1:50
  called Dramatic Heathenry, and all of that information is going
• 1:53
  to be linked in the show notes of the podcast as well as the
• 1:57
  video description. For all of you folks watching
• 1:59
  here on Patreon. Do you want to give a very
• 2:02
  special shout out to all of my existing and return patrons here
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  support at whatever tier is possible.
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  At a very special thank you to my yarls Chieftain and a seer
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  and skald. Excuse me?
• 2:16
  Skald in between there. So we've got our Karls Yarls,
• 2:21
  Chieftains Skulls and a seer tier patrons, everybody that has
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  decided they want to support what I do here in the video
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  version. Thank you so very much for your
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  support. Don't forget this week if you
• 2:36
  are a scald tier or above patron here on Patreon that this week
• 2:41
  which is going to be this Thursday if I'm correct.
• 2:45
  I think I am. Let me just let me just look at
• 2:49
  my calendar make sure I'm I'm I've I've been known to screw
• 2:53
  things up. Yes it is the third Thursday of
• 2:55
  the month so we are definitely going to be you know doing our
• 3:03
  our our our monthly one-on-one virtual thing.
• 3:07
  So be on the lookout for that in your e-mail boxes if you're
• 3:12
  interested in you you haven't heard about what that is it's
• 3:15
  it's a month a months once a month.
• 3:18
  Promise I'll be OK to speak today Virtual one-on-one session
• 3:22
  for about an hour where you can ask me questions kind of pick my
• 3:26
  brain about things. We get a chance to you know talk
• 3:30
  more directly to one another versus like on a live stream
• 3:34
  where it's a bunch of people, you know, talking or or
• 3:37
  commenting and me keeping up with that.
• 3:39
  So that is the third Thursday of every month at 7:00 PM Central
• 3:43
  time. So this week will be that.
• 3:45
  So if you're listening to this on the on the audio waves, it's
• 3:49
  today. If you're watching this on
• 3:52
  Patreon, it's today. So looking forward to that and
• 3:56
  looking forward to seeing those of you who have pledged your
• 3:58
  support at that tier to come and join me for about an hour to
• 4:01
  chat. But anyways, Robert Sass is my
• 4:04
  guest this week. I've been talking about his
• 4:05
  sites, but I don't think I dropped the name.
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  But Robert Sass, who again authors blog articles on his out
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  studio.com website we're going to be talking today about.
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  The history of the Heathen all thing assembly.
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  At least what information we have available to us so far as
• 4:23
  what Robert and others have have found.
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  And if it has its place in modern times.
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  If we can take what we know about this gathering, this
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  assembly of various Heathen groups, tribes, etcetera, from
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  from histories in the past and either reconstruct or kind of
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  revitalize this in a modern construct, have it be something
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  that fits into the modern Heathen construct of things.
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  I have opinions about it. I hope that Robert will as well.
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  I'm sure he does. So I'm excited to get into
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  talking about this. I know it's been a topic that
• 5:00
  has come up in various conversations, not just with
• 5:03
  myself and other people in my area, but it has been something
• 5:07
  that occasionally pops up in a in a message that I get from
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  somebody or I see online. So I'm really excited to learn
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  more about the the all thing or the OR the Saxon thing.
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  So as that's called, we're going to hear about more more about
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  that from from Robert today. So you guys be sure to check out
• 5:28
  everything in the description of the video or the show notes of
• 5:31
  the podcast for all of Roberts stuff, his website, his Facebook
• 5:36
  group and the Facebook page Germanic Evenry.
• 5:38
  All of it's going to be linked down there.
• 5:41
  Show them support where you can. You'll learn a lot.
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  I do too. He posts regularly in in the OR
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  on the on his website. So he does post regular articles
• 5:55
  and you can even sign up to get like e-mail notifications.
• 5:58
  It's pretty cool. So anyway, be sure to check all
• 6:00
  that out. And as always, check out the
• 6:02
  stuff that you see about Midgard Musings, the random Heathen
• 6:04
  Ramblings podcast, everything in the link tree link that's linked
• 6:08
  down there, all the ways that you can support me.
• 6:10
  Follow me on all the socials. There's merchandise through
• 6:13
  spring that you can buy, the sales of which help support this
• 6:15
  podcast as well. Push you get some, you know,
• 6:17
  neat threads to dawn and support the brand.
• 6:20
  So check all that out and I hope you guys enjoy the show.
• 6:23
  If you do, be sure to share it around to help your friends.
• 6:27
  Yeah, spread the word. So without further ado, let's go
• 6:30
  ahead and welcome in Robert Sass of altitude.com, Germanic
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  Heathenry on Facebook and the Altitude Saxon Heathenry Group
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  on Facebook as well. All right everybody.
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  We are joined here with return guest Robert Sass of
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  altidou.com, the Germanic Heathenry Facebook page in the
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  Altidou Saxon Heathenry Facebook group.
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  Welcome back to the show, Robert.
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  Thank you. It's great to be here.
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  Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's great to have you
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  back. I'm trying to recall the last
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  it. It's been a couple of years.
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  A couple of seasons ago I think that you were back on here and I
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  know a lot for both of us have has changed, you know, and you
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  never know where people are to want to appear for stuff like,
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  you know, podcasts and and whatnot.
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  So it's great that you're accessible still and and willing
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  to come on here and talk about some stuff that people are are
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  talking about here. I noticed recently I don't know
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  if you've seen or heard talk, but I've had people come to me
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  and ask about this topic that we're talking about today, which
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  is heathen thing all thing. I think there's another English
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  word for it that. Whitten.
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  Whitten, thank you, yes. Whitten remote, yeah.
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  Yeah. So yeah, it's going to be great
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  you you've done some some, some work on your on your outs to do
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  site. But before we get into the topic
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  of discussion, is there anything that you'd like to kind of just
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  introduce the people with for those folks who are our new to
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  you or new to the show that that don't know what else to do is
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  and what that means and and all that fun stuff?
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  Yeah, I would say out to do sort of had a reboot.
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  I mean, I've certainly had a reboot with my local community.
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  And what I mean by that is, you know, we want to have honorable
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  people around us. There's a lot of poor behavior
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  on online and I'm not going to mention any names or that.
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  I'm just saying, you know, we all have enough drama in our
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  lives and if we want to get online and social media and
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  learn Heathenry, we'd like to do it in a pleasurable environment.
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  And the same is true with people you bring into your home and
• 8:43
  that you do ritual with. So, you know, I think we've had
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  three reboots in our local community in the Chicago area.
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  And I think I also stepped back from social media in the sense,
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  you know, I'm back to blogging like I was before, but I've done
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  a lot less videos. I I will eventually get back to
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  that. I I think I needed some time
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  away to kind of redirection myself to recharge and to as
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  I've learned more and more about how to do the ways of the old
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  Saxons and more about the pre Christian Germanic heathens.
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  You know you're always trying to learn and to grow and to get get
• 9:20
  their worldview and mindset. So that's why a lot of people
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  probably see me less on ossetoo groups, because you know, I'm
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  spending all my time on al sudu and Germanic heathen regroup.
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  So but yeah, al sudu is a word that just means old out, old
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  sudu meaning customs. If you've heard the Scandinavian
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  phrase foreign said, that would be ancient customs.
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  So said sed is how you'd spell it, foreign meaning previous
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  ancient is just a word that means old.
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  So it's very similar concept to, you know, a lot of the terms of
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  Swedish, even Jews for inside, you know.
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  So that's really what what the term means and and what it's
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  about, right? Yeah, you know, I think I see
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  the term old ways get used quite a bit, especially in the Norse
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  or also true circles, right? I even have it as the sort of
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  mantra of the channel, right, practicing old ways in modern
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  times. And do you think that old ways
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  as a term is largely misunderstood nowadays or or
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  misused or, you know, how old are we really talking, you know,
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  like, yeah, sure. Old could be a couple, 100 years
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  ago or 80 years ago or 1000 years ago, you know.
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  So what do you think about the term old ways and and how it
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  gets represented in at at large by you know the heathen
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  community that we our our kind of that we have vision of or
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  what we know of. Well to me old ways means pre
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  Christian heathen ways before our ancestors were either
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  forcefully or by by choice became Christians.
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  I do think that the phrase is misunderstood.
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  I mean like anything like if you want to learn about electric
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  cars versus non electric cars, internal combustion engine cars,
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  you're going to get a ton of misinformation.
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  The same thing is true if you go on a lot of religious sites
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  today. I mean information.
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  Most people that are looking for quick answers can very easily be
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  convinced that something is old and pre Christian when it's post
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  Christian. So I think people like any
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  subject that they study. It's not just a NASA true
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  problem, it it can be in any subject With our social media
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  anyone can post anything up online and make any claim.
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  There's no penalty in America with free speech for throwing
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  completely false information up. So to me, I think people could
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  define old ways differently. I mean some people may say I
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  like ways, it's even post Christian that might have
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  Christian influences because my family heritage did keep that at
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  one time and I understand that. But I'll to do I was really
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  looking at I would say just a couple things.
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  So here's one thing that I've changed in the last two years.
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  I very much think now had Heathenry survived until today,
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  what would it be? I do not think that they would
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  have changed the dating of the holidays, nor do I think they
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  would have changed symbol. I think they probably wouldn't
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  slaughter their animals and throw the blood from the
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  slaughtered animals on rocks in their backyard.
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  I think they would literally go to the store and buy their food.
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  I mean, nowadays most of us don't slaughter food anymore.
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  So I guess the point that I'm saying is, is wearing
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  historically accurate heathen clothing is not as important to
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  me anymore. I'm not saying that I don't have
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  period correct clothing, and I'm not saying that I don't find
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  wearing period garb enjoyable. But to me, the old ways is about
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  what were the holy days? How were they celebrated?
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  When were they? What was bloat and symbol?
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  How were they celebrated in sacred Groves?
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  In hot wine halls, Mead halls. And you know, to me that's
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  that's what the old ways are in pre Christian times.
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  Yeah, I I I would echo that. It's like, it's funny, 'cause I
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  get a lot of people trying to scold me for having the this
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  vagus here behind me going, well, that's not, that's not
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  old. I'm like, yeah, I know it's not.
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  The reason it's up here is not because I adhere to the
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  Solomonic or whatever you know cabalism stuff that the the
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  symbol got associated with later on.
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  It's it's modern in consideration of you know you
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  say pre Christian Germanic or even Scandinavian heathen
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  beliefs. But it was a gift you know and
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  it was a gift from a friend who supports what I do and and so
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  the the the gesture the gift means more to me than what the
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  symbol does. So for that reason is why it's
• 14:24
  up here and why it stays here, you know.
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  And so I think when we look at some of the the the world views
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  the the ways that, you know, pre Christian Germanic people view
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  the world, right. The gifting cycle was a big part
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  of their culture. And that's one of the things
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  that I've come to learn over the years is it's not really so much
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  what you know what The thing is, is, is the gesture of the gift,
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  right. Doesn't have to be big, doesn't
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  have to be period correct or whatever, you know, but it it
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  was just the the the spirit of the gift and the meaning behind
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  it is is more important to me than what it actually is.
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  Do you see the flag behind me that I'm trying to show?
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  Yeah, the the the Steed or the Stallion or the Is that a Saxon
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  Steed I think is it? Yeah, so Long story short, the
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  first historical reference we have of the Saxon seed is in
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  Dersassen Chronicle from the year 1492.
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  So the Saxon Steed does not go back to heathen times.
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  And sadly around the 15th century a Christian legend arose
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  about the most famous Saxon heathen, Widdekin, who fought
• 15:31
  against the Christians to keep Saxony heathen.
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  And the Christians didn't really like the historical heathen
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  Widdekin. So they created this legend that
• 15:40
  he rode a Black Horse when he was a heathen.
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  And once he was baptized forcefully, he then rode a White
• 15:49
  Horse. So all the horse symbols in
• 15:52
  northern Germany are coming from this legend.
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  And like your friend gave that to you, archaeologist Sven
• 16:00
  Nipshild gave that to me in the historical site of the Ehrman
• 16:04
  Sul, where the Ehrman Sul is in Ober, Mars Burger.
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  Ehrman Sul was, and he gave this to me.
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  And even though it's comes from the 16th century and later 15th
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  century and later, it means a lot to me.
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  Yeah. It's not historical, but it is
• 16:19
  an old way. So if you're saying define old,
• 16:22
  it depends who you're talking. You have elder Futhark runes on
• 16:27
  your banner as well. I mean that even period, so you
• 16:33
  know. Yeah, yeah.
• 16:35
  It's like you know how how granular do we want to get about
• 16:38
  things you know and but to me it's again it's the gesture and
• 16:41
  and it's it's kind of just been the staple you know so but yeah
• 16:47
  man the so you are you are A and correct me if I'm wrong but you
• 16:51
  would be considered a reconstructionist historical
• 16:55
  Reconstructionist heathen right you you lean the heavily into
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  the what do what do we know of the ways that pre Christian
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  Scandinavians or Germanic people did their things right what can
• 17:08
  we find what can be on earth what can we discover and then
• 17:11
  how do we reconstruct that into modern times.
• 17:13
  Exactly. So the the the topic of today's
• 17:17
  podcast is Thing all thing Witten we you mentioned with
• 17:22
  Wittenmote. What is thing.
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  I'm going to turn it over to you to explain to the people what
• 17:32
  the Saxon thing was what the Norse all thing was or the
• 17:36
  English Witten Mote. So would you mind explaining it
• 17:41
  for people What what we're talking about when we're saying
• 17:44
  these things? So let me first start with the
• 17:46
  term all thing. The Saxons had things, but they
• 17:50
  also had all thing. So they're all thing was an
• 17:53
  annual thing, which I believe was done at the exact same time
• 17:57
  that the Swedes did their disting.
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  Disting means D seer thing or a thing of the D seer, you know,
• 18:06
  and the full moon that's coming up in the next week, I believe
• 18:09
  that's when the Saxons did it once a year, one full moon
• 18:13
  before Cigarbloat. And what happened in Saxony?
• 18:17
  According to a 9th century source, which is a pretty early
• 18:21
  source, I mean the Saxons were there were many of them still
• 18:25
  even at the time, sure, forceful Christian nation was going on.
• 18:28
  But what happened was, is the Saxons were divided into about
• 18:32
  100 districts in northern Germany and they each sent
• 18:36
  representatives from the three classes.
• 18:38
  You know, if you understand, say the addas Heimdall was
• 18:43
  responsible for the three classes, for the Scandinavians,
• 18:47
  we assume he may be for the Saxons as well.
• 18:50
  But each of the three classes had equal representation at all
• 18:54
  things. And the thing would decide if
• 18:58
  the nation or the tribal nation, tribal confederation would be
• 19:03
  going to war or be at peace that year and they would make
• 19:07
  decisions. And what the writings of Saint
• 19:12
  Lebouin wrote was that they would be in a circle.
• 19:18
  All the classes would be represented.
• 19:21
  They would first OfferUp prayers to the gods and goddesses, which
• 19:26
  I would not disbelieve that source that they began with
• 19:29
  that. And they also practice forms of
• 19:34
  future telling. The Saint Lebouin doesn't
• 19:37
  mention, you know, auspices, you know bird signs or say runic
• 19:43
  type divination. You know, it doesn't mention
• 19:47
  that, but it the source does imply that that sort of thing,
• 19:52
  at least seeking people that could predict the future vulva
• 19:56
  as as you would would would be involved and that the tribe
• 20:02
  would make decisions together as kind of like a representative
• 20:07
  Republic. So that was the Saxon way of
• 20:12
  doing it. The Saxons were a little
• 20:14
  different from other Germanic tribes, They did not have kings.
• 20:17
  Now in fairness, let me define the word king.
• 20:20
  It comes from the the noun kuni, which means a clan.
• 20:24
  So really a heathen understanding of a king is a
• 20:27
  clan leader. And later that word switched to
• 20:30
  the Christian understanding which is king appointed by the
• 20:34
  almighty God to be the dictator or the Fuhrer of people over an
• 20:39
  empire. I don't believe heathen society
• 20:42
  was originally that way. You know, even the Harold fair
• 20:47
  here, the first king of all Norway.
• 20:49
  That's a a later development, probably influenced by
• 20:52
  Christianity and that type of Roman consolidation of power.
• 20:57
  I think I diverged a bit though. For the Saxons, their Republic
• 21:03
  was their government, so to speak, and they no doubt had
• 21:08
  local things, but the all thing was a big deal.
• 21:13
  You know, they had a neighbor, the Franks, who wanted to
• 21:17
  Christianize them, and it probably was a big deal one full
• 21:20
  moon before cigar bloat. The bloat where you bloat for
• 21:25
  victory in war, which is the war season at that time is the
• 21:30
  summer the six or seven months of summer.
• 21:34
  So it makes sense to me that that's when they would hold
• 21:37
  thing when you know it's starting to get warm.
• 21:40
  And summer 'cause they had two seasons is around the corner and
• 21:44
  it was a big deal. You know, should we be preparing
• 21:47
  ourselves to defend or should we go on the offensive, especially
• 21:50
  with force Christianization. So, and obviously they also
• 21:54
  handled some legal matters, but I really think legal matters for
• 21:58
  individuals was not done in at all.
• 22:00
  Thing that's your local thing for your drone of your local gal
• 22:07
  would be your old Saxon word. I think the old sax, old Anglo
• 22:12
  equivalent in England for those the Anglish, old English
• 22:16
  heathens would be Shire. They had their local things and
• 22:22
  they certainly had that more often than once a year.
• 22:28
  You know, that's your all thing. At least in Saxony, you know the
• 22:31
  the Icelanders are famous for having an all an all thing as
• 22:34
  well. We still do it right?
• 22:37
  Yes. They're Parliament.
• 22:41
  Well versed in Icelandic, but I have read the Gragas and
• 22:44
  Icelandic sources so I I do know some, but I don't feel like I'm
• 22:47
  an expert in Icelandic ways. It's not my I'm an American, but
• 22:53
  my ancestors, my grandpa, my grandma, that generation moved
• 22:58
  here. They were born in Germany, they
• 23:00
  moved here. So that's what I know.
• 23:03
  I know that a bit better. But yes, all thing I think is
• 23:06
  even the name of modern Iceland's parliament.
• 23:09
  Right. So you know I think they had all
• 23:15
  thing too but I think it was not at the same time as disting.
• 23:18
  I think the sources say it was in the summer, but I think they
• 23:23
  they did certainly have all thing the things that I'm used
• 23:27
  to leading. I've LED about a dozen to 15
• 23:30
  things. I guess I'd have to try to
• 23:32
  figure the count but you know our local community used to do
• 23:38
  it 5 * a year. We've kind of now we almost do
• 23:42
  it when we think we need to. But you know, I've been a part
• 23:47
  of some pretty intense things. So the the the the small things
• 23:53
  you know we say things with a small T but but it is a thing
• 23:57
  Capital T it's it's it's a gathering it it it's an assembly
• 24:01
  with a specific purpose. It isn't at least I don't think
• 24:04
  we could deduce right it it wasn't like a you know it wasn't
• 24:08
  to it wasn't the same as a holy day like a a bloke day.
• 24:13
  At least not that I understand right.
• 24:17
  It was for something very specific possibly you know legal
• 24:23
  proceedings or hey you know you know you know Wilhelm stole my
• 24:28
  sheep and and now he's not wanting to you know pay
• 24:31
  restitution. We we we got to either I either
• 24:33
  I go to war with him and his family or or we we settle this
• 24:37
  some other way and that something like that may have
• 24:40
  been taken to thing, right. Yes.
• 24:43
  So I'm even going to pull up kind of all my notes on thing.
• 24:49
  But let me tell you first how things started with us, my local
• 24:54
  community. It first began where at symbol,
• 24:59
  if someone made an oath at symbol it's a big deal.
• 25:04
  You know you have your oath staff that OS are supposed to be
• 25:07
  sworn on or rings. You might have an arm ring or a
• 25:12
  ring on a sword. There are other things that you
• 25:15
  can swear on, but we had a situation where someone made a
• 25:18
  major oath. Our fool approved that, and we
• 25:24
  felt that he could easily attain this oath and he blew it off.
• 25:30
  And we felt that that would affect our Megan or our might of
• 25:35
  the entire group. I guess some heathens might use
• 25:37
  the term luck. I look at luck as a little bit
• 25:40
  more of a modern word, but maybe you can say the same concept.
• 25:44
  And we wanted to decide as a group what how we would handle
• 25:48
  this and the individual actually stopped coming.
• 25:54
  So on the one hand, it did make us life easy on us, but we also
• 26:00
  felt that we owed the gods and goddesses shield, you know,
• 26:06
  payment for that failed oath. So even though we ourselves
• 26:10
  didn't make it, our dual approved it, we all toasted to
• 26:15
  it. We encourage this person to keep
• 26:18
  it, and we wanted to keep in right standing before the gods.
• 26:22
  So we called the thing to handle it, and after that we started
• 26:27
  using things to make our rules. Like, you know, I'm kind of
• 26:33
  chuckling because, you know, there's this list floating
• 26:37
  around that I'm supposedly A misogynist.
• 26:39
  And I bring it up because I made a post on that and where I got
• 26:44
  misquoted. I was talking about, you know,
• 26:46
  we have to protect our women because what happened is someone
• 26:49
  broke, they broke trust kind of with us.
• 26:54
  They they came. It was the first time we saw
• 26:57
  them in person and they came with guns just hanging out and
• 27:01
  and. What is this freaking OK Corral
• 27:04
  or something like? Yeah, well, it came into our
• 27:07
  home like. Because.
• 27:09
  I hosted rituals. So, you know, we had some
• 27:13
  members who were single moms and you know, if we had a gun
• 27:19
  incident, you know, it goes off accidentally, somebody gets
• 27:21
  hurt. Women were really afraid of what
• 27:25
  that could do to their custody and their control over their
• 27:27
  children. And of course, they were afraid
• 27:30
  for the safety of their children.
• 27:32
  Rightly so. You know, I made a post on that.
• 27:34
  I think I was misunderstood. They thought that I was implying
• 27:37
  that women can't protect themselves.
• 27:39
  But listen, as a husband, I want my wife to feel safe.
• 27:42
  I want her to feel that she knows that I'm going to protect
• 27:45
  her. I don't think that that is a
• 27:48
  misogynist attitude at all. But we had to have a thing about
• 27:52
  that because we actually decided and thing that we needed to meet
• 27:56
  people face to face before I just invited them to our house
• 27:59
  for ritual. I mean, they sound like very
• 28:01
  basic and simple stuff, but when you actually put together a
• 28:05
  local community and you lead it, you find sometimes you're gonna
• 28:09
  have basic problems that you didn't really think of.
• 28:11
  I mean, maybe it's my Christian past where, you know, the last
• 28:16
  time I attended church, I think it was in my young 20s.
• 28:20
  But, you know, you don't assume people are gonna come bearing
• 28:24
  huge arms. Everybody can see, you know,
• 28:27
  with guns. You just assume that I never
• 28:31
  thought that they'd come into their house with guns on their
• 28:36
  hips, you know? 'Cause the why?
• 28:38
  Like what? You know.
• 28:39
  So what if the law says I can, but like what is that?
• 28:42
  Yeah. What's the.
• 28:43
  Why would you do that? Why would you just walk into
• 28:45
  somebody's home sporting your, you know, side piece there or
• 28:49
  sidearm and and what is that? You know it sounds like the IT
• 28:55
  sounds like what you guys what you're calling a thing.
• 28:57
  Like when you say you know we call a thing for this or that,
• 29:00
  that they are. They're they're not like to me
• 29:05
  what it sounds like is it's it's it's not like a set in stone
• 29:08
  calendar date like we're going to do thing on these set
• 29:12
  specific days when the occasion or when the need calls for it
• 29:15
  then the the people in the position of of of leadership
• 29:21
  will call it and those people that are part of the group are
• 29:26
  expected to represent have representation or or or
• 29:30
  something. Is that is that an accurate?
• 29:32
  Am I seeing things kind of accurately with that or?
• 29:34
  I think you're partially right. Like we try to be as old ways as
• 29:37
  we can. And Tacitus, for example, in the
• 29:41
  late 1st century, early 2nd century, said that the Germanic
• 29:45
  tribes have their meetings on new and full moons because
• 29:49
  that's when they consider it the luckiest time to conduct their
• 29:54
  business. That's how we look at it as
• 29:58
  well. I understand that Tacitus is
• 30:01
  long before, say, Vietas and Snorri.
• 30:05
  Snorri's responsible for one ETA.
• 30:06
  But you know, I still think Tacitus is a good source because
• 30:11
  he wasn't a Christian, he was a Roman Pagan.
• 30:15
  So I value Tacitus and I don't think that he had any reason to
• 30:19
  lie. He he wasn't like these heathens
• 30:22
  are wrong because they've they didn't choose Roman gods you
• 30:25
  know they didn't have a monotheistic mindset.
• 30:27
  So you know we did try to do that and we typically teamed it
• 30:31
  up with ritual. I mean we didn't, I mean outside
• 30:34
  of once a year we got together to just do thing and then
• 30:37
  afterwards we typically did a symbol but most of the time when
• 30:39
  we hold our things at least now thing bloat symbol, you know
• 30:47
  back-to-back to back. Right.
• 30:49
  And does. So you know it's interesting to
• 30:52
  hear the the historical definitions of of thing.
• 30:59
  You know there was representation of all the
• 31:01
  classes you know. So you had your at that time at
• 31:06
  least there were your upper class the if you want to say
• 31:11
  nobility you had your middle class and then you had your
• 31:15
  thralls the the slave you know everybody had representation at
• 31:21
  thing back then. It's different now you know yeah
• 31:27
  sure there's different classes of society but like when we talk
• 31:30
  about you know modern heathenry it's you know if if we were if
• 31:34
  if a group were to call thing or or let's say we want to go and
• 31:37
  look at an all thing where a region of the country or a
• 31:42
  region of of yeah like we're both in the United States right.
• 31:47
  So let's just keep it relevant to to our area right.
• 31:51
  If if if a a mid South all thing or Midwest all thing or
• 31:56
  Northwest all thing were called, it's like everybody in that
• 32:01
  region wherever your district whatever your district kind of
• 32:04
  consists of right. If you're part of the Midwest
• 32:07
  area or you're part of the mid South area and and and all thing
• 32:10
  is called then then representatives of the heathen
• 32:14
  communities would come to that here in at least in modern
• 32:18
  times, right. We're not going to necessarily
• 32:20
  get as granular as well. And you know, I need a
• 32:22
  representative of the UP, you know, the upper class, a
• 32:24
  representative of the middle class, a representative of the
• 32:28
  the bums. I don't know, Like that's a
• 32:30
  harsh way of saying it, but you know what I'm trying to say?
• 32:32
  Like it would be a little bit different now because society's
• 32:36
  not the same as it was back then, right?
• 32:38
  Well and I would say for two things cause one like in our
• 32:41
  thing like follow my logic for a moment in our things we elect
• 32:45
  our law speaker who is permanently our law speaker and
• 32:49
  we we have that position. We elect people to certain
• 32:54
  positions So this is how we also govern ourselves.
• 33:00
  So even though I'm the founder the whole group can boot me.
• 33:04
  So at least an old Saxony that didn't have all powerful
• 33:07
  dictator type kings. I can't be a ruthless person
• 33:13
  over my people. And the reason why I'm answering
• 33:16
  your question like regional all things.
• 33:19
  Look my local community isn't going to be able if we have an
• 33:23
  all thing with many other groups, our law speaker may mean
• 33:27
  nothing to another group. You know like when I have done
• 33:33
  joint groups with a group in Wisconsin and a group in Chicago
• 33:38
  where we did a ritual up in Wisconsin with them and some of
• 33:42
  them, not all of them did come down for a ritual with us in our
• 33:46
  area. And I will say you know I don't
• 33:51
  think either of our groups try to exercise power or believe
• 33:54
  that our all thing should you know any decisions would apply
• 33:59
  to their groups cause I've never had an all thing I've never LED
• 34:02
  or been a part of an all thing like that.
• 34:05
  So I tend to wonder because, you know, heathens online, I
• 34:11
  understand that we're not monotheists, so we all don't
• 34:13
  have to absolutely have absolute agreement and be absolutely the
• 34:16
  same like cookie cutter churches.
• 34:19
  But typically, you know, I look at heathens like if you have 50
• 34:27
  heathen leaders who have founded a local community, you're gonna
• 34:30
  have 61 different opinions on one thing.
• 34:33
  You know what I mean? Like.
• 34:34
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 34:36
  So like it was you know one of the things I, you know I posted
• 34:41
  something about this on the Mid Garden Musings Facebook page in
• 34:46
  anticipation of our meeting right of our of our podcast.
• 34:52
  And I was like you know we're I'm going to have Robert Sass on
• 34:54
  here. We're going to talk about all
• 34:55
  thing and a lot of people are like I think there should be one
• 35:00
  and then it kind of goes back to at least in my opinion it it
• 35:04
  kind of goes back to the understanding of what we're
• 35:09
  talking about. Like I was saying before how the
• 35:12
  the term old ways gets misused or misunderstood.
• 35:17
  What are we talking about when we say does modern Heathenry
• 35:21
  need an all thing. Some people were saying yes
• 35:26
  because of the reason that there are a lot of folks online,
• 35:33
  whether they're representatives of a national organization or of
• 35:38
  A5O13C, whatever. The thing, you know, is a
• 35:42
  nonprofit that are publishing or saying certain things about
• 35:46
  Heathenry and kind of being a voice for the community.
• 35:51
  And it's like, well, maybe we don't see things that way, like
• 35:55
  why are you, why are you trying to lump us all into that way of
• 35:58
  thinking? And I think with some people are
• 36:01
  or at least that one person was saying was something along the
• 36:04
  lines of well if we if there was an all thing called then it
• 36:07
  would allow for representation and and we could come together
• 36:11
  and and and have this sense of community that we're looking for
• 36:17
  and and talk about these things that get either misrepresented
• 36:21
  or misconstrued because it's just being put on a platform
• 36:25
  where nobody can weigh in on it. You know what I mean?
• 36:30
  I think so. I almost think that like maybe
• 36:33
  and I'm I I'm outside of Ossetoo now.
• 36:37
  So if I say names of groups that no longer exist, like the Troth
• 36:40
  or the AFA or TAC or the Noriana Society, some of these groups
• 36:46
  that are more organized, they could probably have an all thing
• 36:52
  with ease. I almost think you'd have to
• 36:56
  have strong enough interpersonal relationships with other
• 37:00
  heathens if you're not a part of some national type organization
• 37:05
  who say that the things that we decided thing matter, I mean for
• 37:11
  AL to do. In fairness, if I find out that
• 37:14
  there is someone doing an AL to Do group like mine in Indiana,
• 37:19
  if they accept the AL to do mission statement, which is
• 37:22
  pretty generic, it's no racism, no bigotry of any type.
• 37:26
  These are the five things that I mentioned before.
• 37:28
  We're trying to reconstruct, you know, holy day symbol bloat.
• 37:32
  If they agreed with the basic premises, then sure, maybe we
• 37:36
  could make decisions because we're all gonna agree on them
• 37:39
  together and it would be authoritative.
• 37:44
  I think some heathens are right that maybe we should come
• 37:47
  together more, we should be a little more organized.
• 37:50
  And others are, whoa, like let's not be like a church.
• 37:54
  But at the same point in time, one could argue, since there's
• 37:57
  so few of us, if we don't band together, you know, can we
• 38:01
  really start having more common customs, you know, for us out to
• 38:10
  do guys, you know, I know that they're doing three major bloats
• 38:13
  a year, and I know what dates and times they're doing.
• 38:17
  I would actually like to be in contact and in solidarity with
• 38:23
  them because we see eye to eye and we want our faith to have a
• 38:30
  positive. You know, like if someone were
• 38:32
  to Google the term out to do, are they gonna see discussions
• 38:37
  on bigotry or are they gonna see like these guys are really
• 38:40
  honorable and they make a difference in the world type
• 38:42
  discussions. I mean that's what I really
• 38:45
  want. Like, you know, I guess I'm
• 38:48
  gonna say one thing about things.
• 38:52
  You know, people know me as the guy that pushes the historical
• 38:55
  accuracy of holidays, but in the last two years, I would say
• 38:59
  there's something more important than that.
• 39:01
  It's honor. Are we living pre Christian,
• 39:04
  heathen virtues of honor? Do we uphold proper heathen
• 39:09
  morality? And are we, you know, as upright
• 39:14
  as we can possibly be in front of the world?
• 39:18
  Like, I don't want to throw Scientology under the bus, but I
• 39:21
  think we all agree. When people think of
• 39:23
  Scientology, they think of stuff they've seen on TV about how
• 39:26
  abusive they are and their standards.
• 39:28
  We want our reputation to the to to the world to be spotless.
• 39:33
  And in order to do that, an all thing would be a great idea to
• 39:36
  say we're against these forms of bigotry or we're against this
• 39:41
  or, you know, we need to make sure that we have proper
• 39:44
  standards, even honor. And if someone's behaving
• 39:48
  dishonorably, you know, I understand it's not our job.
• 39:54
  Like Christians, we're a different religion.
• 39:56
  But it's always nice to make people better because that's
• 39:59
  what leadership is. It's building people.
• 40:01
  If someone makes a mistake, can they pay their shield and be?
• 40:06
  Restore their honor. Yeah.
• 40:08
  Can we give them a chance or is it so egregious that it's like a
• 40:12
  form of outlaw rate? I mean, things should decide
• 40:15
  that, and that's why these things are important.
• 40:20
  Now those are good men. Those are good things to
• 40:22
  mention. I've had so I've done a couple
• 40:26
  of it wasn't just me, I I've Co hosted a number of Park Moots,
• 40:33
  which I guess if you want to look at the the construct of it
• 40:39
  is a form of a thing. I mean, it is an assembly,
• 40:41
  right? But it's not like come or not
• 40:44
  come, It's it's if you want to come.
• 40:46
  But the thing about our Park Moots here in this area is that
• 40:50
  it's an amalgamation of different religious bodies.
• 40:54
  So you've got a lot of folks that lean towards the Norse or
• 40:58
  Germanic side of things when it comes to their paganism.
• 41:00
  And then there are folks that are not that they're more
• 41:04
  eclectic. They they're, they're more
• 41:06
  wicked, you know? So in this in this area of
• 41:09
  Middle Tennessee where I live, it's a melting pot of non
• 41:15
  traditional religious views which is strange to say
• 41:18
  considering Tennessee being kind of like part of the what they
• 41:22
  consider the Bible belt. But there are a lot of non
• 41:25
  traditional and you know the the non traditional religious types
• 41:31
  but those assemblies those park moots you know one of the things
• 41:34
  that came up I remember at one of these gatherings it was
• 41:38
  either a moot or it was a another like there's a Raven.
• 41:43
  Moon Hearth is one of the bigger area in the Nashville area.
• 41:48
  One of the bigger Norse Pagan groups.
• 41:51
  They they do they do stuff public throughout the year and I
• 41:56
  think it may have been there or it was it was a park with that I
• 41:58
  helped Co host. But anyway, one person was
• 42:01
  asking about stuff like you were talking about like, you know,
• 42:07
  what if somebody does something, you know, what do you do about
• 42:11
  that, that if, if, if they did something that was against the
• 42:15
  the custom or the Sioux of the group, the tribe, you know, how
• 42:21
  do you handle that? And we talked about that.
• 42:23
  It was like, well, I mean obviously there's going to be
• 42:25
  some things that, you know, if it was illegal by common law,
• 42:31
  right by you, whether it was state, federal law.
• 42:33
  I mean that's that. But if it's kind of a Thu or a
• 42:37
  custom that was broken of the of the small unit of that tribe,
• 42:42
  well, we're we're going to look to see.
• 42:44
  All right. Well, what was the nature of the
• 42:45
  offence? Most of the time I think we can
• 42:49
  come up with some sort of shield recompense to balance out.
• 42:54
  Right. You can restore your honor now
• 42:55
  because what you did was dishonorable.
• 42:57
  What you did was a damage to your honor.
• 42:59
  It was it was a it was a a hit to the Frith.
• 43:05
  Perhaps, you know the Frith was damaged maybe trust was broken
• 43:08
  something like that. But what do you do to to restore
• 43:12
  that honor and then what happens if the thing was so egregious
• 43:16
  that you're you're you're outlawed and it got to the like
• 43:21
  we got we reached the point of the discussion where it was like
• 43:23
  it it it kind of it lands on how that tribe does things it's it's
• 43:30
  their decision. They, they would call an
• 43:32
  assembly. They would, they would meet.
• 43:33
  They would, they would get their officials together.
• 43:35
  They would decide well, what needs to be done to set the
• 43:39
  balance back in order. And if shield could be paid and
• 43:46
  and, you know, the honor could be restored, then great.
• 43:48
  And if not if it was such an egregious thing, you're like
• 43:51
  there is no recompense. There is no shield that you
• 43:54
  could pay. You're out, go be gone.
• 43:56
  You know, you're you're kneading now it's, you know, kind of one
• 44:00
  of those things. You know, I'm gonna bring up a
• 44:03
  weird story about us. I mean, it's a true story.
• 44:07
  And because it's like 7-8 years ago now, I think it's OK to
• 44:12
  share this. Someone attacked me online and
• 44:17
  said some very negative things and one of the members of our
• 44:21
  local community literally got a box of dildos, put them in the
• 44:27
  mail, found the person's address and insulted me and sent them a
• 44:32
  box of dildos. Now we found out about this
• 44:39
  cause the person received the box complaint.
• 44:43
  Suddenly my name's getting thrown and I had no idea they
• 44:45
  were doing this. I had nothing to do with their
• 44:48
  decision and honestly what was said about me was pretty
• 44:52
  egregious. But to be honest with you, you
• 44:54
  just have to get over some things.
• 44:56
  I mean, because it heard our reputation.
• 45:01
  We had a thing about it. We had a trial and the person
• 45:05
  was removed from us for one year.
• 45:09
  And I know that the person who received the box of dildos felt
• 45:13
  it should have been a lifelong ban.
• 45:15
  But yet she lived in a different state and had some outrageously
• 45:19
  crazy in wrong things to say about me.
• 45:22
  And we don't try to exercise our authority over her.
• 45:25
  She wasn't a member, but we think that again, how we behave
• 45:31
  effects our reputation. You know, I know police reports
• 45:36
  were filed. You know, she was offended that
• 45:39
  someone tracked her down. And if the point where someone
• 45:43
  in your local community is causing police reports to be
• 45:48
  written by another heathen, no matter how they behave online,
• 45:52
  you've got to put a stop to it. You have to distance yourself
• 45:55
  from that because there's nothing healthy about that now.
• 45:58
  I'm proud that he in a sense spent his time away from the
• 46:03
  community and got his act together and he became a very
• 46:10
  important member of our community again and stayed drama
• 46:15
  free after that. And I feel that because it was
• 46:19
  decided at our all thing with the assistance of the gods and
• 46:24
  our ancestors, you know that that was the fate that the the
• 46:28
  word Shapers or the Norn Ear, to use Scandinavian's terms, that
• 46:34
  that was his fate, so to speak. That was what was measured to
• 46:39
  him and he had that length of thread dealt to him and he paid
• 46:43
  that price. And what we do at our thing we
• 46:47
  feel is was our business and at least we did something.
• 46:51
  It's like we ignored it and didn't take action and we did
• 46:57
  lose some members for it because they didn't want this person to
• 47:01
  have a way back in. They wanted him gone forever.
• 47:06
  Like full blown outlawry. Like so long Charlie kind of
• 47:11
  thing. I always try to please as many
• 47:14
  people as you can, but when you're working as a community
• 47:18
  and it's not me running it, we have a law speaker.
• 47:21
  We have all our Thiles. The Wolves are elected.
• 47:26
  You know, I was elected Trocton, our leader, but that doesn't
• 47:30
  mean that I could exercise too much authority.
• 47:33
  I looked at the leader title as I was the admin.
• 47:36
  That's the one that. Says hey.
• 47:38
  Remember, we're supposed to have ritual On this date.
• 47:41
  You know, I paid for a lot of the food.
• 47:43
  I did all the hosting. So I get that I had that but I
• 47:47
  wasn't leading bloat someone else.
• 47:51
  I'm not saying I'm a terrible go thee, but we had two people that
• 47:54
  just blew me away. Like they were definitely shaped
• 47:58
  by the Norenier to be a go Thee and a Githia way better than me.
• 48:03
  I throw great symbols. I mean we all have our
• 48:06
  strengths. We all have our weaknesses.
• 48:08
  I I believe that, you know, just because I'm not I might be the
• 48:14
  lead or the founder, doesn't mean that I should be the priest
• 48:17
  all the time. I like that our group makes
• 48:20
  decisions together and that we honor the people who are worthy
• 48:24
  and have earned it. You know I don't want to be
• 48:27
  priests if I haven't earned that, right, you know?
• 48:31
  Yeah. Don't have much?
• 48:35
  Yeah. But so much of what you say
• 48:36
  echoes with kind of how our tribe does things in in Middle
• 48:40
  Tennessee, you know, and when I say tribe, I mean like it's very
• 48:43
  small. Like count on one hand kind of
• 48:45
  thing the amount of people. So it's it's if anything it's
• 48:48
  more of a yeah, it's a try because not everybody is related
• 48:52
  by blood, but there is definitely a sense of family.
• 48:58
  So there's this extension of the family unit that is is how our
• 49:03
  tribal structure has organically become.
• 49:06
  But similarly what you're saying you know the the Chieftain, the
• 49:09
  go, the the fuel the fuel we kind of use as interchange as as
• 49:14
  sort of the law speaker, I mean in our group right.
• 49:17
  So he has the the role and the responsibility of sort of like
• 49:23
  in Beowulf, you know the he's he's kind of like the right
• 49:27
  hand, the chieftain's right hand.
• 49:30
  He's there to make sure that thing is being done in
• 49:33
  accordance with the tribes through.
• 49:36
  And when OS are sworn he's the one to challenge them if they're
• 49:43
  cockamamie, whatever, like, hey, what are you talking about over
• 49:45
  there? Like challenge it if if, you
• 49:47
  know if the flighting comes up, he's kind of the 1:00 to, you
• 49:52
  know, make sure that things go the the the way they should be
• 49:55
  going. But like you were saying, like
• 49:58
  the the the the Chieftain, the Dalton, the whatever name you
• 50:02
  want to put to it isn't this sort of authoritarian dictator
• 50:06
  of things. Our tribal structure is very
• 50:09
  consensus based. Yeah, sure there is a role and a
• 50:14
  responsibility that that person needs to fulfill.
• 50:17
  But let's take it to the floor, let's you know because
• 50:21
  ultimately, you know without without the people, those
• 50:27
  positions are nothing, right. You can't be a you can't be
• 50:31
  drolton. You can't be Chieftain.
• 50:33
  You can't be this you can't be that without the people there to
• 50:37
  entrust you with that. They they they see this in you.
• 50:43
  They they see this. The strength in you to entrust
• 50:47
  you with this role with this responsibility.
• 50:49
  So it's it's it's a it's a position of service more than
• 50:54
  anything. I think it's not like I'm going
• 50:56
  to sit back and let everybody do everything for me and I'm going
• 50:58
  to I'm going to work harder for the people.
• 51:00
  I'm going to work the hardest to make sure that what these people
• 51:05
  entrust me with is being fulfilled.
• 51:09
  So like you were saying, you know what?
• 51:10
  You you try to please everybody. And that doesn't happen all the
• 51:15
  time. You know, sometimes you just got
• 51:17
  to be like, well, it is the way it is.
• 51:18
  We're we're making the, we're the, the decision.
• 51:21
  I feel it has to be made at times.
• 51:22
  That is for the betterment of everybody, not for the
• 51:24
  betterment of one person. Because when you get to this
• 51:28
  stage of things where there's a lot of people involved and a lot
• 51:30
  of hearts and a lot of feelings and all that, it's well, what's
• 51:33
  good for everybody, what's good for the collective.
• 51:36
  Somebody may not like it. One person may be pissed off and
• 51:40
  that's OK. I mean that's happens.
• 51:44
  But if it's a decision that is made to make for the betterment
• 51:49
  of everybody as a whole we we go with that.
• 51:54
  You know and I like I like what you were saying too like how
• 51:57
  your your group has thing that you call on certain times and
• 52:02
  that certain you know whether it's the the new moon or the
• 52:06
  full moon or you know you you echo back to the Tacitus
• 52:10
  observation of of when they did things similarly with us you
• 52:15
  know like we'll have regular counsel we call it just counsel
• 52:20
  but it sounds similar to what you're saying right We we'll
• 52:23
  we'll assemble we'll talk we'll we'll address certain things
• 52:27
  whether it's an upcoming bloat that we're doing or an
• 52:31
  adjustment to the bylaws or something.
• 52:33
  You know like it's it's it's kind of a formal gathering.
• 52:36
  It's it's kind of a formal assembly.
• 52:39
  But it's it's it's done with the purpose of kind of fine tuning
• 52:44
  and polishing those those edges and making sure that what we
• 52:47
  have as a tribe is something that can continue 'cause I don't
• 52:55
  I don't look at me as as as as a Chieftain of of clarity folk or
• 52:58
  or you as as the the founder, the Drolton whatever of of your
• 53:04
  group. It's like well I'm not going to
• 53:06
  be here forever, right. The group is going to be a
• 53:09
  continuation of things. So we want to have things set in
• 53:11
  place that for the next iteration, the next Rolton, the
• 53:16
  next Chief tend to take over that they can and and and
• 53:20
  continue on in the way of the liberty folk or the way of the
• 53:25
  whoever it is. Right.
• 53:27
  And that's why we do these things.
• 53:29
  That's why we have these council meetings or these things as you
• 53:32
  would would have them for your group.
• 53:35
  You know, you brought up the word counsel.
• 53:38
  There's an old Saxon word spelled RAD.
• 53:41
  I've always pronounced it rod I I don't have a PhD in
• 53:46
  linguistics, so I don't know how good my pronunciation really is,
• 53:51
  but I bring it up because it's in the sources.
• 53:55
  It means a secret counsel. We all love the word thing and
• 54:02
  we see it on TV shows, you know, like Viking Season one, Episode
• 54:06
  one. For a lot of those Viking people
• 54:08
  that came into Heathenry from watching that, that's the first
• 54:11
  thing they see, OK? It's inside The Chieftains Hall.
• 54:15
  They're making a vote on a murder and they hear the word
• 54:19
  thing. We do not see the word rod,
• 54:23
  secret counsel, and suffer in the sources.
• 54:25
  And because we don't see it in the TV shows, maybe we haven't
• 54:28
  spent enough time digging into what that is, because the old
• 54:32
  Saxons absolutely had a rod, a secret council, and what were
• 54:38
  they doing in it? I'm sure they were handling the
• 54:42
  old Saxon would be thou or thoo. They probably were tackling
• 54:47
  those issues and I don't hear that term used very often today.
• 54:54
  I hadn't heard that before you mentioned it.
• 54:56
  Honestly, of course, I'm not a a linguist either with with at
• 55:01
  least with old sax. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting
• 55:03
  back into learning German, 'cause that's where my, like, my
• 55:08
  my my mom and my dad's side both and my my my mother's mother was
• 55:14
  German. Her maiden name was Von
• 55:17
  Nemelungston. My dad's side of the family were
• 55:21
  Dutch. I I actually traced a lot of my
• 55:25
  ancestry on my dad's side back to a gentleman.
• 55:29
  His name was Jakob and he lived in like the the Rhine, the lower
• 55:34
  Rhine area back to the. And it was not very far back.
• 55:39
  I think the the farthest back I was able to go was I think maybe
• 55:42
  the 1600s. But yeah, no, I I hadn't heard
• 55:47
  that term before. You said secret council and it
• 55:49
  was Rod or Rod or I don't know. Is also the word runa, which is
• 55:53
  related to the word rune. So runes are secret mysteries.
• 55:57
  There's also the Secret Council Rune or Runa.
• 56:02
  Various spellings in Old Saxon. That's probably even more used
• 56:07
  in the sources than Rod. Thinking about it, you know
• 56:11
  what? What were those?
• 56:14
  Do we have enough information in our historical sources to
• 56:18
  understand what those really were?
• 56:21
  It would be a great topic of research.
• 56:22
  I I guess I need a new blog article.
• 56:24
  So there we go. Hey, I'll be I'll be definitely
• 56:28
  keen on seeing that and I like that that you mentioned the
• 56:32
  correlation the cognition of these words and that they are
• 56:36
  mysteries. It's you know it's funny like
• 56:41
  being a runner myself somebody that has studied rune it or is
• 56:45
  continuing like I I I found myself early on in my Heathenry
• 56:52
  diving into runic divination runic studies which has become
• 56:57
  and evolved into learning the the language surrounding the the
• 57:02
  time periods when the runes were used and so many other things.
• 57:05
  And it's and it's it's more than just trying to you know it's
• 57:11
  more than just looking at these symbols as divinatory tools.
• 57:16
  It's it's the mystery surrounding them linguistically,
• 57:23
  etymologically, the the divinatory aspect there.
• 57:27
  There's so much around it all and yeah it's it's become a very
• 57:34
  in depth part of my spirituality and it trickles into to some of
• 57:40
  the other things right with the with with our tribe.
• 57:43
  You know the how how that happens Our our, our tribal
• 57:46
  banner is runic in nature but it's it's its own thing.
• 57:50
  It's the symbol for our tribe is not something that you could
• 57:53
  ever find in a book or or see in in a source.
• 57:56
  But I think that's part of tribal identity in modern times
• 58:01
  is is you uncover mysteries of these things and and you apply
• 58:08
  it to what's going on now in our modern time.
• 58:16
  And so like I wonder how much of this desire for an all thing
• 58:20
  where that desire is coming from.
• 58:22
  You know are people wanting this to again have a way of you know,
• 58:30
  being represented, having a voice that is centralized around
• 58:36
  actual heathens where it's like well, it's not just some, you
• 58:39
  know, faceless blog on a, on a, on a, on a on a forum somewhere
• 58:44
  that's saying this is how we all believe because of whatever
• 58:50
  reason they want to say. It's actually getting people
• 58:52
  together and then having that ability to be represented and
• 58:58
  and speak for themselves or have a voice spoken for themselves in
• 59:02
  in face to face grassroots sort of thing.
• 59:06
  You know, there was, there was AI never got a chance to go to
• 59:09
  it. You've probably heard of it too.
• 59:10
  But you you know what I'm talking about when I say
• 59:12
  lightning across the plains. I think I've heard of it, but I
• 59:17
  never dug into what to understand.
• 59:19
  I think I've seen it. It was I used to be in.
• 59:23
  Yeah, it was years ago. It was before I got into
• 59:26
  Heathenry myself. But it was a it was a big
• 59:28
  gathering. I think it was in the Oklahoma
• 59:35
  or Kansas or somewhere up in that neck of the woods of the
• 59:39
  country in the United States. And I know some people that were
• 59:44
  part of it and it was a big thing.
• 59:47
  It was like an all thing at the time.
• 59:49
  You know, people would come from different areas all across, all
• 59:53
  around the country and come to lightning across the plains.
• 59:57
  And like I remember hearing that they would, they would elect
• 1:00:05
  officials for lightning across the plains.
• 1:00:08
  It was like So what if you know John over here in in in Kansas
• 1:00:14
  was? You know law speaker for his
• 1:00:16
  tribe and you know Timothy over in Oklahoma was law speaker for
• 1:00:20
  that tribe. Doesn't matter.
• 1:00:21
  When lightning across the plains happened it was voted upon who
• 1:00:24
  would be the law speaker? It it might be John, it might be
• 1:00:27
  Tim, it might be Bob, it might be somebody else.
• 1:00:29
  But it was voted and and and the law speaker for the thing was
• 1:00:33
  elected. It wasn't a law speaker for this
• 1:00:38
  tribe or that tribe that was there.
• 1:00:40
  It was. It was an elected position so
• 1:00:43
  far as I understand and I wonder if that would be a a model to
• 1:00:49
  look at for if a regional all thing were ever to to be
• 1:00:56
  formulated was that you know we we we might look at the the the
• 1:01:03
  the the chance of electing positions for that sort of
• 1:01:07
  assembly make it sort of a that way there's no bias.
• 1:01:12
  You know what I mean? Like it it's like well, this
• 1:01:14
  person from this tribe is their their law speaker.
• 1:01:16
  So you know he or she, whatever they're they're going to be the
• 1:01:19
  ones that you know there there's bias because of who they're
• 1:01:24
  with. Like no, it's it's it's a
• 1:01:27
  General Assembly and and at the General Assembly at this
• 1:01:31
  collective there's an unbiased position that's elected.
• 1:01:36
  It's just something to think about.
• 1:01:37
  I don't know. You know, that's one of the
• 1:01:39
  things I love about thing that you the way the model is set up.
• 1:01:45
  Like I'm going to use the Hebrew Bible example and I know that
• 1:01:48
  it's not a relevant example for Heathenry.
• 1:01:51
  But like you know, it does say that you need two or three
• 1:01:55
  witnesses at a minimum to carry out capital punishment thing.
• 1:02:01
  You need lots of people. I feel more safe.
• 1:02:06
  You know, they say that juries came from heathen things.
• 1:02:10
  The concept of many people, it's not two or three witnesses.
• 1:02:14
  In America it's 12. You have a jury of 12.
• 1:02:19
  Wasn't, wasn't, wasn't all thing.
• 1:02:21
  Wasn't there. There was A and you probably are
• 1:02:25
  better versed in the in the sources, but an actual number,
• 1:02:27
  almost five or seven or nine or whatever.
• 1:02:32
  Oh, I can't remember that. I mean I know what the Saxon all
• 1:02:35
  thing that they had 12 freeman, 12 noble and 12 peasants.
• 1:02:44
  From the. Cow, but I don't know.
• 1:02:49
  Yeah, that that's an old Saxon number, but I don't think the
• 1:02:52
  old Saxon number. I don't know if that really
• 1:02:56
  played a part in jury. I could.
• 1:03:01
  Well, there are 12 members of a jury today, at least in the
• 1:03:05
  United States justice system, you know, for trials and stuff.
• 1:03:08
  So maybe. But it was 12 from each of the
• 1:03:11
  three classes, so you'd have 36 from each Gal.
• 1:03:14
  But that was for all things. OK, I got you.
• 1:03:19
  Yeah, I I I probably have to do more research on that.
• 1:03:22
  I mean I will say though like there is some discussion like
• 1:03:26
  let's use the Old English word Witten.
• 1:03:30
  Does it mean men of wit, wise men or does it come from the Old
• 1:03:34
  English and Old Saxon word that means a punishment?
• 1:03:38
  Because a wit or a witty in Old Saxon is a punishment.
• 1:03:42
  So you know, is it wise people that get put on a jury or is it
• 1:03:49
  all about wise people metting out punishments?
• 1:03:55
  You know, it maybe it's a double meaning because they'd be
• 1:04:00
  pronounced the same way. Spelling to me is a little
• 1:04:04
  different because, you know, the heathens did not use the Latin
• 1:04:07
  alphabet until it came to them. And I'm not saying Latin didn't
• 1:04:10
  influence some runes in any way, but you know, the Germanic
• 1:04:14
  languages was a runic language. We have Ath letter, you know, we
• 1:04:20
  spell words the way we do, like people, the word people, it's
• 1:04:25
  it's not spelled how it sounds. You know what I mean?
• 1:04:28
  And that's the you know exactly you know.
• 1:04:38
  Well so much if I think the like when I hear people talk about
• 1:04:41
  all thing right and Oh yeah we need one I always go back to the
• 1:04:44
  why right. Why do you want, why do we want
• 1:04:47
  an all thing and is the is is this just another excuse or
• 1:04:52
  reason for a bunch of people to get together and have vendors
• 1:04:56
  and classes and stuff like, well, those things already
• 1:05:00
  exist. Like there are plenty of public
• 1:05:03
  events that happen at least here in the United States.
• 1:05:08
  I know I've got people that listen in other parts of the
• 1:05:10
  world and watch this, that are not in our in our respective
• 1:05:14
  area. But those are their own things.
• 1:05:19
  I mean we use the word thing to to describe this legal assembly,
• 1:05:25
  but they are things in their in their own respective way.
• 1:05:28
  If it's a public event where you know everybody can come and have
• 1:05:32
  a good time and meet and network, that is a thing, right?
• 1:05:39
  It's an assembly. But I think if if we're going to
• 1:05:43
  stay true to the to the term all thing, then are we obligated to
• 1:05:49
  look at what all thing was in arch even times or in pre
• 1:05:53
  Christian times and determine whether or not that framework
• 1:05:59
  applies to us in modern times? Is there this need or this sense
• 1:06:05
  of governance or and maybe that's a hard, like maybe that's
• 1:06:08
  a a heavy way of putting it. But you know what I'm trying to
• 1:06:12
  say? Like what the purpose of all
• 1:06:13
  thing was at the time that it was happening and what it was
• 1:06:16
  for? Does it meet with a need that is
• 1:06:20
  present now and today? I guess guys, there's so many
• 1:06:25
  ways they can answer that it's a.
• 1:06:28
  Bit rhetorical, but if you have an answer, yeah.
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, if it's the if it's the Saxons, it was their tribal
• 1:06:34
  assembly because they had to unite together to fight the
• 1:06:39
  Christian Franks. And they had that back then.
• 1:06:43
  Right there were Saxon. They were the tribe.
• 1:06:47
  What do we have nowadays? Well, we've got it's different,
• 1:06:52
  you know, it's it's such a a different time and a different
• 1:06:55
  construct. I have this.
• 1:06:56
  I got. You off but.
• 1:06:58
  No oh it's totally OK. I have this odd belief too that
• 1:07:01
  kings turning into the from the heathen clan leader to the
• 1:07:05
  Christian dictator type king. Did he then re end because the
• 1:07:09
  most famous Saxon rebel Widdekin who kept trying to to fight wars
• 1:07:15
  to keep the Saxons heathen and free.
• 1:07:18
  He went to the Danes and said look you're next.
• 1:07:21
  If we fall, I'll lie with us. Cinema sins if you know that
• 1:07:26
  YouTube channel Cinema Sins they'd say, I don't really like
• 1:07:29
  Star Wars because when it's one on five the hero fights each
• 1:07:33
  person one at a time and all five don't hit the the
• 1:07:36
  Christians had some luck that the heathens were too reluctant
• 1:07:39
  to call things. So when you say should we have
• 1:07:42
  an all thing You know I really believe historically if the
• 1:07:47
  heathens formed a coalition decided to put aside tribal
• 1:07:53
  differences whatever differences the Danes and the Saxons had
• 1:07:57
  they they they were good enough to Widdekin married the daughter
• 1:08:01
  of a Danish king but yet the Danish king when use his armies
• 1:08:04
  to help defend Saxony with Widdekin.
• 1:08:08
  So why, like if they were able to put aside their differences,
• 1:08:12
  would it have made a bigger difference?
• 1:08:16
  I honestly think, you know, historically having that belief
• 1:08:19
  today, you know, I guess because I've seen so much online drama,
• 1:08:23
  I'm very slow to try to unite in the larger than regional groups.
• 1:08:28
  But let's use another example. Let's use, but I hesitate to use
• 1:08:32
  it. It's the first one that's coming
• 1:08:33
  to mind. You have the universalist in
• 1:08:35
  your focus. So when the Universalist decided
• 1:08:38
  to do Declaration 127, did they all hold the thing?
• 1:08:42
  Or was it one person's idea that caught on like wildfire?
• 1:08:46
  Because if it was done with the thing, imagine how powerful that
• 1:08:51
  would have been. Oh, wow.
• 1:08:53
  And did the AFA and their response decide to ignore it
• 1:08:57
  through an all thing of all the AF?
• 1:08:59
  You know what I mean because AFA did ignore it.
• 1:09:03
  That was and that is a response. OK.
• 1:09:06
  Was that Mcnallan driven or did he hold an all thing and was
• 1:09:09
  that their you know I think when you do things with a group and
• 1:09:15
  it's not coming a dictator pushing it down and that it's
• 1:09:20
  decided at thing with prayer to the gods offerings and a
• 1:09:24
  community working together. There is so much power in that
• 1:09:31
  you know we get upset online quickly we as in all of us.
• 1:09:35
  I mean I I can't say I behave perfect online.
• 1:09:38
  I haven't. I've made mistakes.
• 1:09:39
  I'm. Saying.
• 1:09:41
  Yeah, if we, if we get involved in drama, if we were to handle
• 1:09:44
  it as a group, it would go so much better.
• 1:09:49
  But you know, I think one way, and I'm not shifting the
• 1:09:53
  discussion, but you know, when people say Christianity has
• 1:09:57
  destroyed our world, I would say it's the outlook of it.
• 1:10:02
  Because Heathenry was family and community centered and
• 1:10:06
  Christianity is about a personal relationship with Christ.
• 1:10:11
  Americans today, they don't have dinner as families anymore.
• 1:10:14
  I mean, we're a society that taps their foot by the
• 1:10:16
  microwave. We have no patience.
• 1:10:19
  I think that the Christian W made everything more individual.
• 1:10:24
  You can fix this alone in your personal walk with God.
• 1:10:28
  Whereas Heathenry was not about, you know, you as a community
• 1:10:33
  approach. The gods, you you did symbol and
• 1:10:36
  bloat with your family. I'm not saying that you couldn't
• 1:10:39
  do it alone, but I mean you have so many examples, especially of
• 1:10:44
  the Norwegians doing it as families.
• 1:10:47
  Yeah. That, you know the idea of The
• 1:10:50
  Lone Ranger is a little bit you know.
• 1:10:56
  It's a far. It's a bit far removed from the
• 1:10:58
  traditional model of of that. One of the things that
• 1:11:03
  interestingly enough last week I was, I was celebrating my six
• 1:11:07
  years of Midgard musings and I had a bunch of guys on a live
• 1:11:10
  stream. And this sort of topic came up
• 1:11:14
  in in in the sense of our roof trees, our hearth cults or
• 1:11:20
  hearth culture. And one of the things that was,
• 1:11:22
  you know, identified and brought up was that, you know, one
• 1:11:24
  person can be there, that that is a roof tree.
• 1:11:27
  Like you can be one person, 'cause like let's face it, like
• 1:11:32
  not everybody has a family unit to connect with.
• 1:11:37
  There is a lot of estrangement that happens through various
• 1:11:41
  reasons and and and family units.
• 1:11:44
  And so a lot of people find themselves a bit of a, a a
• 1:11:48
  solitary practitioner, well, their solitary practice, that's
• 1:11:53
  their roof tree, you know, there, that's valid.
• 1:11:55
  There is something to be said for that.
• 1:11:59
  I think the more you lean into the the old ways of of
• 1:12:03
  Heathenry, you're going to find that family doesn't always mean
• 1:12:06
  blood can. There is fostering.
• 1:12:08
  There is ways to exist in the SIB without being blood related.
• 1:12:16
  So there's that. But you know when when we're
• 1:12:20
  talking about this, you know I'm an island and and I it it's my
• 1:12:24
  personal you know relationship with the divine or whatever.
• 1:12:28
  Sure. I think even back in those days,
• 1:12:31
  just because we don't have it written down or documented, I'm
• 1:12:34
  I'm sure that there were cases or or or you know circumstances
• 1:12:40
  where you know a family, a person did something a certain
• 1:12:47
  way that wasn't the way that everybody else in that village
• 1:12:51
  or that GAO or whatever did it. They had their own hearth
• 1:12:55
  culture surrounding a thing, right?
• 1:12:59
  They had their kof God, their, their hearth God, whatever that
• 1:13:02
  they would venerate or they would gift to feign to.
• 1:13:08
  That's going a little bit off topic of what we were talking
• 1:13:10
  about, but it was worth mentioning I think.
• 1:13:12
  Just. 'Cause you don't mind me jumping
• 1:13:14
  in, you did use the word sib. An old Saxon sib is your word
• 1:13:19
  for those who married into the family, like the linguistic
• 1:13:23
  cognate would be, see Thor's wife oh.
• 1:13:27
  Yeah. So she married into the family
• 1:13:32
  and then they would have children.
• 1:13:34
  I mean, typically, you know, married couples have children,
• 1:13:39
  but that's where the word siblings come from.
• 1:13:42
  You know this. That's why Charlemagne, who was
• 1:13:46
  a Christian, but when he conquered the Saxons, he
• 1:13:49
  demanded hostages. And who's these?
• 1:13:51
  Who's the hostages? It's typically the nieces and
• 1:13:54
  the nephews of the people he's trying to because it's the
• 1:13:57
  children of the sib. Those who married in, who
• 1:14:02
  married your brother? Who did your sister marry?
• 1:14:04
  Let me grab their offspring, 'cause I'm gonna keep you in
• 1:14:07
  line because the sib is important and you know so.
• 1:14:15
  And we see in the the, as you call them, Norwegian sagas.
• 1:14:18
  But like in Yinglinga Saga and other sagas, you know, you see,
• 1:14:23
  I I see it more with the Norwegians because you know in a
• 1:14:26
  lot of the sagas, the Swedes are painted at Upsala, you know, but
• 1:14:31
  the Norwegians are having bloat and cymbal.
• 1:14:34
  You see they're inviting their family but it also says they're
• 1:14:37
  inviting their close friends. So you have people who aren't a
• 1:14:42
  part of the SIB, but they're close.
• 1:14:44
  And that's why I think, ah, so true is forming kindreds.
• 1:14:48
  The word kin means offspring or family.
• 1:14:51
  Excuse me? The word kin means family and
• 1:14:54
  kind means offspring of the family.
• 1:14:58
  And we're forming kindreds because we don't want to be
• 1:15:01
  alone. I mean, I do have a heathen
• 1:15:02
  wife, and I do have heathen children.
• 1:15:05
  And my eldest son, his fiancee, joins us and she's totally on
• 1:15:09
  board with all of it. So I have that.
• 1:15:14
  But you know, you ask your solitary practitioners, do they
• 1:15:18
  want five or more heathens that share the same belief system in
• 1:15:22
  the area? They would all say yes.
• 1:15:24
  Yep. Oh yeah, man, I got, you know,
• 1:15:27
  we have a, a Facebook group in Middle Tennessee called Middle
• 1:15:29
  Tennessee Heathens and one of the, you know, to to try to
• 1:15:32
  regulate and vet people to to keep down like spammer bots and
• 1:15:38
  all that garbage from joining a group.
• 1:15:40
  You know, one of the questions that is asked before you join
• 1:15:43
  the group is, you know, are you part of a kindred or tribe or
• 1:15:49
  are you looking for one? And a lot of the membership that
• 1:15:54
  comes through on that Facebook group is I'm not a part of one.
• 1:15:58
  I'm looking for something. So I see it at least in our area
• 1:16:03
  and I and I and I got to think that it's not isolated to just
• 1:16:06
  us. You know, there's plenty of
• 1:16:08
  people that are looking for their quote UN quote, Heathen
• 1:16:10
  home, you know, where where, where are the people that think
• 1:16:15
  like me, at least close enough that share in a similar
• 1:16:19
  worldview that I can grow with and and and cultivate a a life
• 1:16:24
  with and and having these meaningful experiences Because
• 1:16:27
  that's where it's at. It's not online, You're not
• 1:16:30
  going to you're not going to experience things like Frith.
• 1:16:33
  You can't do things like stumble you know, over over a keyboard
• 1:16:37
  long distance. It's you got to have that
• 1:16:40
  grassroots, interpersonal relationships.
• 1:16:45
  Absolutely. I mean, I've heard through the
• 1:16:48
  Grapevine, I don't know if masks do this, but I've heard that,
• 1:16:52
  you know, not Orthodox synagogues where they do
• 1:16:54
  services on zoom. I think I've heard churches
• 1:16:57
  doing services on zoom. It's very hard to do a symbol on
• 1:17:00
  zoom, you know. I don't think, I don't think you
• 1:17:03
  could call it symbol over over that way.
• 1:17:07
  You know what I mean? Like how do you.
• 1:17:08
  Sure, everybody might be inside, but there's such a disconnect
• 1:17:14
  with that. Like the gesture is I guess,
• 1:17:16
  nice. It's it's well thought out.
• 1:17:19
  It's, you know the meaning behind it is probably virtuous
• 1:17:23
  but in reality like I had our last you'll hear we we do
• 1:17:30
  cymbal. And it was the most intense
• 1:17:33
  cymbal I've ever held in our hall.
• 1:17:36
  Like people cried out of happiness, out of sorrow.
• 1:17:42
  There was just this sharing of emotion between the the, the,
• 1:17:48
  the, the, the participants of of sumble that I'm like, I'm sorry,
• 1:17:52
  I don't think I could have replicate this over a zoom call
• 1:17:56
  or over a a long distance video call.
• 1:17:58
  Like there's something about that sharing that space with
• 1:18:03
  people and and having those moments together that you just
• 1:18:09
  you can't replicate it fully over long distance, you know?
• 1:18:17
  Yeah, our Sacred Grove veneration.
• 1:18:20
  You can't do outdoor Sacred Grove at all.
• 1:18:24
  I mean, someone's gonna be have to carrying their phone or
• 1:18:27
  something. I mean and I.
• 1:18:29
  Know I don't know about you, but I know a lot of folks that
• 1:18:33
  ourselves included. But I know a lot of folks that
• 1:18:36
  prohibit the use of electronics or the presence of electronics
• 1:18:40
  when ritual is held. They don't want that window of
• 1:18:44
  the outside interfering with the inner.
• 1:18:48
  We have it too, but for the safety of our members.
• 1:18:51
  I mean, I I hate to say this, but, like some people like, you
• 1:18:57
  know, my family can't know I'm he.
• 1:18:59
  Then my ex can't know I'm he. Then I I could be in trouble
• 1:19:02
  with in court, with my kids. I mean, I hate to say it, but
• 1:19:05
  you you almost have to have that secret counsel.
• 1:19:09
  It's the healthiest way to go about.
• 1:19:11
  Like the the the new iteration of our Chicago area community.
• 1:19:16
  We're unbelievably secretive. There would be no picture
• 1:19:19
  taking. We we don't want that to affect
• 1:19:22
  us and we don't want to be used against us, Especially if
• 1:19:25
  someone later gets pissed off and hates all of us.
• 1:19:27
  They could share all sorts of stuff.
• 1:19:31
  We live in such a rough world, man, and I hate to say it, but
• 1:19:34
  we we have to have lack of trust in people.
• 1:19:39
  Well, you know, we're we're responsible for preserving our
• 1:19:42
  main. Megan, you said before that that
• 1:19:45
  word luck, another term that like you say gets used.
• 1:19:49
  But I look at it in that, you know, this isn't just me, it's
• 1:19:54
  not just you, it's us. And so we have to safeguard and
• 1:19:59
  protect that thing that we're all experiencing and it's our
• 1:20:04
  responsibility. Right.
• 1:20:06
  Especially the leaders of of, of our respective communities.
• 1:20:09
  It's it's ultimately lies on them to to safeguard and protect
• 1:20:14
  the luck of the tribe. You know if it's, if it's
• 1:20:18
  damaged if it's hurt then it hurts everybody and then who's
• 1:20:23
  responsible for repairing that damage restoring that honor
• 1:20:27
  etcetera, etcetera. It's a it's a big thing.
• 1:20:31
  I'm glad to be in a in a of a mindset to to see that and to
• 1:20:36
  prove you know to to continue in in in the path that I'm in with
• 1:20:40
  that in mind. It's not just about me here.
• 1:20:44
  I've got other people that mean something to me that I've tied
• 1:20:47
  weird with, that I've shared in ceremony and ritual and and so
• 1:20:52
  many different things with it's their luck on the line.
• 1:20:56
  It's our luck on the line, right.
• 1:20:58
  I've got to be protective of that by whatever means
• 1:21:01
  necessary, you know. But I appreciate you man.
• 1:21:07
  I think we really covered a lot of good basis of the idea or the
• 1:21:12
  thought of all thing or and and I really appreciate you talking
• 1:21:17
  about a bit of your group's approach to things in general
• 1:21:22
  right small things having semi regular thing held for the
• 1:21:28
  reasons that we stated earlier in the episode and kind of
• 1:21:32
  separating that from the bigger regional all thing idea or model
• 1:21:37
  and who knows what could come of this from just our discussion
• 1:21:41
  today. I think it's, I think it's
• 1:21:44
  sparked. A lot of it sparked, at least
• 1:21:47
  for me, you know this, this mindfire to look at what
• 1:21:52
  conversations I've had with other people in our area about
• 1:21:56
  the idea of a thing, whether we call it all thing or whatever,
• 1:22:01
  and help us to kind of figure out where we want to go with
• 1:22:07
  this. It sounds like it's something
• 1:22:10
  that's needed, but it has to be done the right way.
• 1:22:14
  And it can't just be one person that's like, let's do it this
• 1:22:17
  way There, there needs to be a. It needs to be done the right
• 1:22:21
  way. Yeah, and trust is a big deal.
• 1:22:25
  I think the right way starts with trust of the people all
• 1:22:28
  there. Do they have the trust in each
• 1:22:31
  other that they will act honorably and uphold the heathen
• 1:22:36
  virtues that we see in historical pre Christian times?
• 1:22:41
  Absolutely. I do appreciate it.
• 1:22:44
  Robert, anything else that you wanted to say before we sign
• 1:22:49
  off? I'll I'll connect with you a bit
• 1:22:51
  when we stop the recording just to give you the expectation of
• 1:22:55
  what's to come on the publication of this episode.
• 1:22:58
  But while we're still here with the viewers and the listeners,
• 1:23:02
  is there anything else that you wanted to to add as a sort of
• 1:23:05
  closing statement? You know, I guess it's my
• 1:23:09
  closing statement. First, thank you.
• 1:23:11
  I've really enjoyed this time and while everyone knows Al
• 1:23:16
  Sidhu is the when were the bloats historically held group.
• 1:23:22
  We believe that how heathens behave is so important.
• 1:23:26
  Just I would encourage everyone, you know, let's just say you
• 1:23:31
  disagree with Al Sidhu and Robert SaaS on when you will.
• 1:23:34
  It was historically, but you behave very honorably then we've
• 1:23:40
  got common ground because to me that's just the most important
• 1:23:42
  thing, how we portray ourselves to the world.
• 1:23:46
  Are we positively using our heathen values to positively
• 1:23:51
  impact our families and to take care of the sacred Groves around
• 1:23:57
  us? To me that, you know, I've, I've
• 1:24:01
  always talked about accurate dates, things like that.
• 1:24:05
  But really, how we behave is so important and our reputation of
• 1:24:08
  the outside world, especially on social media today, I would just
• 1:24:12
  encourage everyone to remember with everything we do, it
• 1:24:16
  reflects on who we are. So you know, the the recharge
• 1:24:21
  Robert, this is the most important thing and I I hope you
• 1:24:24
  guys understand that and really embrace, you know, focusing on
• 1:24:30
  being honorable heathens with how you behave.
• 1:24:34
  So thank you for listening. I'll get off the soapbox now,
• 1:24:38
  but I'm lying. We have too much heathens
• 1:24:41
  behaving poorly. Let's let's let's do better.
• 1:24:44
  Do better I, I, I, I, I want to you know mirror that echo that
• 1:24:49
  yeah we got to do better and I appreciate you coming on here to
• 1:24:53
  say that and to share a bit of kind of the some of the behind
• 1:24:57
  the scenes things that you did to the degree that you were able
• 1:25:00
  to and willing to. It's it's very insightful.
• 1:25:03
  I think it it it puts things in perspective for people.
• 1:25:06
  You know when we collectively as a as you know look at stuff
• 1:25:09
  online we we we it's a bit dissociative you know we're like
• 1:25:13
  well this person you know there's no you know how how can
• 1:25:16
  I relate you know hearing things that happen with with people
• 1:25:21
  like yourself and you know it it's relatable for a lot of
• 1:25:26
  folks and I appreciate you saying what you said and and
• 1:25:30
  sharing what you've shared. So there's going to be
• 1:25:32
  information down in the well for the Patreon viewers that are
• 1:25:37
  watching this episode. It's in the description below
• 1:25:39
  with all of Robert's stuff, altidue.com, the Altidue Saxon
• 1:25:43
  Heathen regroup on Facebook and the dramatic Heathenry Facebook
• 1:25:47
  page that it was is everything that Robert regularly shares, so
• 1:25:54
  be sure to check that out. And for all the listeners on the
• 1:25:56
  audio platforms, it's it's everything's going to be linked
• 1:25:58
  and annotated in the in the show notes.
• 1:26:00
  So do be sure to check it out, follow and support Robert and
• 1:26:03
  those efforts in any way that you can.
• 1:26:06
  And yeah, thank you very much, Robert, for being here.
• 1:26:10
  You're welcome. Thank you.
• 1:26:12
  Yeah. And so for everybody else that's
• 1:26:15
  listening and watched this episode, thank you for your
• 1:26:17
  ongoing and continued support. Every way that you can support
• 1:26:21
  the podcast is also LinkedIn. The description and show of
• 1:26:24
  notes, it's that link, tree link that you'll see there.
• 1:26:26
  So follow me on the socials. You can get merchandise, become
• 1:26:30
  a Patreon, Patreon. Wherever it is that you feel
• 1:26:32
  inspired and willing and wanting to do it is greatly appreciated.
• 1:26:36
  So thank you all for your ongoing and continued support
• 1:26:39
  until we see each other again or talk to each other again.
• 1:26:42
  May the gods continue to notice you, and may your ancestors
• 1:26:46
  smile upon you. We'll see you in the next one.