Latest / Coaches Rising / 268 - Jayne Warrilow: Leader as Channel

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268 - Jayne Warrilow: Leader as Channel · Coaches Rising

0:00
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the coach's rising podcast.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: This one is another beauty.
0:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I am delighted to be in conversation today with Jane Worrowlow.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I was recently on Jane's podcast thoroughly enjoyed it what a fantastic podcast host.
0:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just share a deep resonance with the view that Jane holds of coaching, of the leading edge of coaching, of the future of coaching.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And this conversation
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane's going to share about her journey and also her journey as an executive coach.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a seasoned coach which led to the founding of sacred change because which is a home for those that feel coaching and are working these times as a sacred art in service.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll talk about resonance and energy and how Jane works on that level with her clients and we'll talk about eight dimensions of change, which open up the pathways and possibilities of change.
1:23
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, this is one of these conversations that's really, I feel like it's pointing to the evolving emerging edge of our work as transformational.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: facilitators in these times of really an invitation into the invisible energetics of change.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So a few more words about Jane as I said Jane is the founder of Sacred Changemakers.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane is a seasoned executive coach working with executives with leaders around the world.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Jane has a fantastic podcast, I recommend you check that out, and she's an author of beyond profit, this sacred changemaker's guide to reimagining business and leading, and a book called Becoming a beautiful book of poems from the threshold of change.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that'll be said that's diving here's the podcast with Jane Warylo.
2:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So Jane, it's a delight to be with you again.
2:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We just met actually, not that long ago, and yeah, I'm touched to be with you again.
2:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed I really appreciate our connection.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So how you doing?
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing really well, and thank you, Joel, for that.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just want to say Ditto to what you said.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually really excited about this conversation.
2:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was really happy to share the conversation I recorded for your podcast with our community and see, that's the first time I've ever done that.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I hope to return the favor.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the white ray with the frame it, but you know, it's really, wow, you were a great podcast host.
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope I can do as good a job as you.
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so we've got quite a few threads today, but I thought I would just begin by asking you to talk a little bit about sacred change makers and why you've created that.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe you could just start with giving us a little sense of your journey through life, um, in terms of the moments that led to the creation of sacred change makers.
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel such resonance with that with it as a project.
3:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's really interesting that I've ended up here in a way.
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I do feel it's my legacy work, and if I share my journey, I'm not going to share all my journey because it's been quite a long one, but I'll definitely speak to the thresholds of change that brought me here.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've always been in kind of learning and development and started out in retail companies of all places and then moved into consulting very early on.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have a degree in a master's degree and so that kind of put me on a trajectory through learning and development and it was it's it's been such a I don't know for me I've always been fascinated with
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: people and what makes them tick and how do we change and how do we kind of ease somebody else is suffering and really kind of I have always wanted to make a difference.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I've known that and I think that's true for many of us in coaching it's why we come to the profession.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started my first business in 1996, and I was coming out of running a consultancy for a university in the UK.
5:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um,
5:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, I'd always wanted to do my own business, and I did that in 1996.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of strode out on my own.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had what at the time felt like a really big challenge because the university had put me in golden handcuffs.
5:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wasn't able to try and get clients within.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was 150 mile radius.
5:35
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was in Norwich in the UK.
5:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that plunged me into the M25 really, and I was a single mum at the time with two really small children, and it just felt really overwhelming that I couldn't get business locally.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But thankfully quite a few clients came with me from the University Consulting Company that I'd set up and run.
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was in the M25 and what started as a challenge became a blessing and that is definitely a pattern in my life.
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So what happened was I became in some way as well.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I started to work with a lot of UK companies of course but then being in the M25 then it was European companies
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't know in many ways like what I was doing in terms of systems for a large consulting company and building them out, but it was a bit like riding a wild elephant and we got some incredible companies really early on.
6:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And that just meant that I was partnering with some of the top leaders and senior teams in in the world and learnt an awful lot, I really did.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was a normal consulting company, you know, we did a lot of leadership development, we did a lot of executive coaching, dare I say before it was called coaching.
7:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm giving my age away now, but we used to call it
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: and I did a lot of psychometrics in the days when we used to have like a radio graph and a lead pencil and then used to push it through a photocopia and then I had to handwrite, sofa background in psychology and used to handwrite all these leadership reports and I was sat with a leader giving him feedback on a, it was actually a 16-peer report one day and I was
7:39
[SPEAKER_01]: and then spoke to something that I couldn't possibly have known and he turned to me and he said because I was talking about the fact that he needed to go and speak to the board he needed to take a sabbatical a time away because of the family pressures that he was under and he just he went white in the face he looked me straight in the eye and he said how do you know that?
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: you can't possibly know that.
8:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I knew was that his wife was ill.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know she was terminal but she was and from there then I ended up coaching him and he he went and got the time he needed but it stuck with me because he was really shocked and what I then realized was
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not only do I have the business school background but I'm also psychic and highly intuitive and this was coming out in my work in ways I was completely unconscious too.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So that started the shift really and then in 2001 I gave birth to my third child my youngest son Jacob and
8:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I was bedridden for three years, finally given a terminal diagnosis, it was from an ampegural anaesthetic, so I want to go into the details but bladder, kidney and spinal cord.
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I was misdiagnosed for a year by the NHS and when I finally collapsed in London, I was actually working with a board in London and I collapsed and that's what got me my diagnosis and then like I say I was literally in a wheelchair not because my legs didn't work but because I was in so much pain my legs would buckle from underneath me.
9:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was a, I mean, it really was a challenging time because I had to sell my consulting company, which was multimillion at that point, so that's all fine.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I had to kind of navigate this terminal diagnosis and my children were really, really young at the time.
9:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I mean, the pain, I can't describe the pain and everything that I was in.
9:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But I lost my life in a way, because I wasn't there to nurture my youngest son.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: My older children, particularly my eldest child was really impacted by this.
10:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And she thought I was going to die.
10:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody had told her, but kids are really intuitive, they know.
10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was always in hospital and coming out and going back in and coming out.
10:16
[SPEAKER_01]: and for many years I really thought that was the way and then I think I was about after the terminal diagnosis I was about six weeks in and I thankfully I have an inner rebel and she kind of kicked in and it was like well okay these doctors have given me the best diagnosis they
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I put together a team of fringe medicine specialists.
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it was called back then.
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had an oriental doctor and he told me you don't live in a downwork climate if you have the the challenges that you have.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So thankfully my husband was willing and we all up to and left and we went to Florida originally.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we came to the US in 2009.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never thought I would get back to this level of health.
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm still managing things, but you wouldn't know it now.
11:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm off all of the medications.
11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was on morphine and fentanyl and all these things are really...
11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I realize now the medicine made me worse than what I was really.
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But it also showed me there's a difference between medicine and healing.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was already a spiritual healer, I've been on a spiritual path my entire life.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also was working with energy, and that was like a world over here.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was my business and leadership and my coaching over here.
11:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never thought the two worlds would mean.
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: but after it was actually just before we came to America, an old client called me up from Coca-Cola, actually, and they didn't know what I'd been through.
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They just called me up and said, Jane, can you come down?
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've got an issue and I really need to speak to you.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went down to London and was walking across an open plan office to get to my client's corner office and
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like walking through the living dead.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I could just feel, I had a fight for flight response, and I could just feel the energy draining out of me.
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was literally thinking, oh my god, is it always been like this, and I just not noticed.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was the catalyst for me really starting to bring my two worlds together.
12:38
[SPEAKER_01]: The energy, the spiritual, the sacred path, alongside the business and the leadership and the strategies and the structures that we know.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And that changed everything and that was really the genesis of my body of work of resonance was born.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So then we fast forward.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I was working with energy mapping consciousness against leadership and organizations and getting
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: What I can only describe as exponential results is like an alchemy when you work in change with energy and resonance.
13:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything was going really, really well.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I moved to America, everything there was going well as well.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've always been a little bit ahead of my time, Joel.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed this because I set up resident coaching in 2004.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a little bit before it's time in some ways.
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And then get to 2019 and I became a grandma for the first time.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only that I was there at the birth of my granddaughter,
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, I literally was holding her for the first time this beautiful young soul just taking her first breath.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course I was in tears and at first they were normal grandmartiers of joy, but very, very quickly it turned to this bone deep sadness.
14:01
[SPEAKER_01]: and I didn't know what it was and I couldn't share it with the room because it wasn't appropriate to do so and but I'm a meditator so I sat with it contemplating what an earth was that and quite honestly I went into a dark night of the soul.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Looks back on then was about 25 six years of being in this industry looking back on my career to see you know have I made a
14:31
[SPEAKER_01]: but I'd also made a lot of people rich and to me that wasn't success.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I done very well financially myself, but was that success?
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was aided by a dream where my granddaughter's called Phoebe.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: She was in the stream, she was her 21st birthday.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And she turned to me and she said, Nana, what did you do?
14:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What if you'd done to help make the world a better place?
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was when I woke up in a, like, a cold sweat and I was like, oh, no, I, and I just knew I hadn't done everything I could.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I looked back on my career and I realized that I'd spent most of the change work in what I now call the IME mine.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of conversation, but I did it through all levels of system.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't just mean working one on one with clients.
15:25
[SPEAKER_01]: What I mean by that is, you know, my career, my leadership, my team, my department, my organization, and occasionally even my nation, my country.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking back on that, I realized it was a very limited way of approaching change, and if we continue to approach change in that way, we're always going to get what we always got, and so I know that these times we're living in now.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an invitation.
16:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like those challenges in my life, they feel like there were invitations.
16:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And the question is, are we ready or we listening to the invitation of these times?
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I feel it's really calling us as guides.
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I look out into the world, I've worked with leaders of work with organizations, have done full-scale change across global organizations.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, I was trying to figure out which industry
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: and I landed here with coaches.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're so pervasive as an industry through our all areas of life and business and family and everything, we're there, we're there as the guys.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we can expand our capacity for change, we can be the guides that facilitate a whole different
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the impetus behind sacred change makers.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's all about for me.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There's many questions I can ask you.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will about various aspects, for example, what becomes possible when you, you marry those two worlds together with this, the kind of,
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: residents work in the business strategy, but actually first I want to go to, you said this, these times are an invitation.
17:28
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what is the invitation for our times and what is a sacred change maker?
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's many ways I could describe the invitation and I think in some ways it's both individual and collective.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I speak to it just kind of broadly for a minute, if when I look out into the world today, so many industries are...
17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of going through transformation, they're entering into a new era.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at the research, you can see that in the space of development in the space of transformation and coaching and consulting and any of the modalities that bring change, the industry itself is maturing.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can certainly say they solve the coaching industry.
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've been in a space of transactional,
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: work where, you know, you pay me and, you know, and then I give you a service and and then we walk away and we're good.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Then this is a transformational space of any industry and that's when the industry itself transforms and begins to really align with what customers and clients want.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And in many ways, I think that's where we are now.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a more matureing industry.
18:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But then.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: there's a transcendent space.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the space where we start to transcend the old ways.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We move into a new era.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in a way I can look back on, I'll just do it from my own career reflection in a way.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was times where I was fixing things for people and organizations and teams.
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But now I think my work has really evolved into this space of
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: like seeing things in a deeper way, helping raise awareness, raise consciousness, really start to look at challenges with multiplicity of lenses.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't believe as coaches we're here to help people fit into a world that's broken.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're here to help shape a new world.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: that's the invitation that I really see as stepping into.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And that means we need to transcend the old ways of doing things.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what do I mean by transcend?
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean get rid of everything that's been working.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean we kind of dive into what's been really great the structures and the frameworks that really have helped us.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: and then we kind of elevate consciousness and expand our capacity, not just through the individual lens, but starting to look through while I work with eight dimensions of change.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And once we start to do that so much more becomes possible.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, Joel, the reality is now that we've not just got new Tonyan physics, we've got quantum physics, quantum mechanics, we've got string theory that are proving some of these invisible elements of life are actually what's driving the show, it's what's driving change.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
20:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We work with some of these things because we're very skilled as coaches are working internal to externally, but we don't necessarily work in the vertical development of the consciousness of, and it's not about getting to, like, high frequency and staying there.
20:56
[SPEAKER_01]: but it's about being able to use all the lenses of all the frequencies so we can meet people where they are and then start to help them raise their awareness and really start to become more resonant.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is one thing I want to say when I speak about energy because there's a lot of us out there doing this work energetically.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: like energy alone is just a piece for me because resonance is energy that connects and the energy on its own can only do so much but energy that connects it's the quality of connection
21:33
[SPEAKER_01]: that really makes a difference at all levels of energy and that begins with the coach, that begins with the inner world and your own energetic field and how you're showing up and what are you inviting other people into?
21:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that a field that's primed for transformation?
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's beautiful.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I know why we get on so well, I feel such resonance with what you're sharing, and I feel like this is one of the emerging edges of our work, and especially with AI coming in that it will take the other stuff.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: more kind of a step-based analytical stuff and handle that and there's this whole territory left over.
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And so could you say a little bit more about the, you know, in a sense like the view of the capacity of a sacred change maker and
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: what it's like to work in resonance, in a sense we could start to unpack some of these dimensions of change that you're naming.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to kind of continue to refine this picture of how you work and how you see others working.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: In some ways, I think the sacred change maker, it's so interesting.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've already said I'm intuitive, that those words came to me intuitively and the really interesting thing that I want to speak to is I was in a mastermind at the time that this came through in 2019 and I remember going to the mastermind and saying, okay, my new brand is going to be called sacred change makers and everyone in the room without exception said to me,
23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we love the word change, make a Jane, but you can't use the word sacred.
23:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You just can't.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to put everybody off.
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And to this day on LinkedIn, I still get people saying that to me.
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd get much bigger take up if you didn't use the word sacred.
23:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what made it worse was every time I typed it into Google, the spell check would change it to scared.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so sacred change maker.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: In many ways, the words actually speak to what it means to be a sacred change maker.
24:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can start at the very beginning really, which is, you know, a lot of coaches are purpose driven.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We come to this because we care.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We care about other people.
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We care about the future of our world.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: We just care, right, that's kind of prevalent in the industry.
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And in many ways, the purpose is an extension into a sacred calling.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I look back on my career, I think I've been purpose driven probably for most of my career.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a purpose driven career, then I had a purpose driven business, but now I have a sacred calling.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some ways, it's hard to describe what that is, but it's an internal pull.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And the easiest way to describe it when I'm helping people find what theirs is, it's always, it's the thing you can't not do.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there was no way I couldn't, I could just call this change makers.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It was definitely sacred change makers because I actually believe
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a sacred calling.
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That invitation is sacred.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The work that we're doing is sacred.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: For anybody that's listening that's thinking, well, isn't sacred doesn't that belong in church or in religion?
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but isn't it time we kind of pull this back and reclaim the word?
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Because to me, it's just something that wants to be honoured
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the work that we do as coaches.
25:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of the sacred piece.
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's interesting is for me that word means that we listen more than we speak in a way.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We're listening not just to what's being said, but what's beneath the surface that's not being said.
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of like the resonance piece,
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: what's the emergence space here between you and I in this conversation?
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it that wants to emerge between us that couldn't emerge if I was on my own and you were on your own Joel?
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's this emergence that starts to come up in the conversation when we allow it to.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And that works not just one-on-one, but in groups and communities and teams, it's listening deeply to the unseen aspects of our world and our life that really are kind of defining everything.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It also speaks to me to the way that we do change, so getting back to the eight dimensions.
26:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it starts, of course, with the being.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So the internal to the external, that's a kind of a thread that we know very well as coaches.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if we're looking for change to be sustainable, we can't just work on the doing pieces, because, well, we can, and it does work, but you need a client that's going to be able to break habits.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we know it takes about 30 days of practice.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: to break an ingrained habit, and most clients quite honestly are not willing to be committed that long to do that.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a way, working in that space, you can get a short term change, but the long term sustainability of that change is they're likely to ping back once they get back into the workplace or in life or relationships depending on where you're working.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But we work on the internal to the external, and that's very well known, right?
27:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if nothing changes on the inside,
27:31
[SPEAKER_01]: nothing changes on the outside, so but when we work here as well, we're not only looking on to logically at the way of being, we're also looking at the level of energies, so we work with frequency.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: and I have something called the Nine Resonance Codes, which are grouped in chunks of three really for different levels of consciousness.
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So at the bottom three levels, we have the foundations of life, and this is all about kind of belonging, and if anybody's familiar with the shackles, you can think of like, this is root chakra work.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The shadow, there's healing here,
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the stuff that we need to let go of, so that as we rise up, we can become self-authored in our lives.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Because down here at the lower levels, this is where we're really just products of our experience and everything that's happened to us.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's in alignment really with psychological development as well from people like Piaget and Ericsson and Young.
28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So down here, this is the early part of life if we look at these like development tool stages.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: but this is the foundations like where do I belong, where are my people like, one of my here to do like it's all that foundational stuff down here.
28:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we move up into the transformational space and this is where the energy of the heart is.
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we now start to
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: open and connect out into the world.
29:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And it kind of starts at the lower levels of this space where we're kind of confident and we're out in the world and we're getting some success and, you know, but on the inside we still feel quite empty.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then as we come through the heart we're starting to open up in relationship with.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we come up to the throat chakra at five and this is really where we're now starting to speak our truth.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're starting to get a tug of this something in this work that I'm doing in my life that could be more meaningful.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're starting to get a sense there's something bigger than me that I could start to tap into.
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course we get to the higher frequencies and the transcendental space.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Unity consciousness is up here where we realize we're not alone.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't be alone.
29:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything is interconnected.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we're leading change, we realize we've also got to take care of the context, the interrelatedness of wherever this client or this team or this organization is situated.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So we start to look out there.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So
30:12
[SPEAKER_01]: internal to external is now taken an uphill down route because that's what I mean by the vertical of consciousness and it's not about getting to the top and staying there.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about can I connect?
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I resonate?
30:28
[SPEAKER_01]: at each level here so I can meet people where they are and I can take them where they need to go because quite honestly, I look out of the world today and it's very complex when you look at the challenges we're facing as humanity.
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I look out, the simplest way to deal with where we are and get us to a better place is to rise in consciousness because so many things would become irrelevant.
30:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I use that word regenerative, not just sustainable change but regenerative change because it kind of goes sustainable restorative regenerative and regenerative is all about life giving, not life extracting
31:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So, at the higher frequencies, if we could just elevate our lens to the higher frequencies, we could see that everything is interrelated.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Every decision I make, everything I do or say who I'm being, is having a ripple out into the collective.
31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when I realize that, I realize how important consciousness is, because it's what makes us unique and you mentioned AI.
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: AI, you know, can pattern recognition, it can give you the language, but it doesn't understand, doesn't have the shared human experience, and that's what we bring
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Individual change, that ripple I just spoke to, you know, if you're just working one on one with a client, you might think the change stops there.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It repels out into their family, into their loved ones, into their friends, into the work they do in the world.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That ripple goes through.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So the next two pairs of polarities, if you like, in the dimensions, are from individual to collective.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get aware of what this thread is and what our intention is working from the individual space to the collective space.
32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if we only ever, when I look back on my career, I realized, I've been taught to say, what do you want from coaching today?
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we working on?
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: What's most important to you?
32:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I learned and I'll give a shout out to Peter Hawkins here.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This space is very limited.
32:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very narrow lens.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like being a racehorse running down the track with blinkers on and not looking out and seeing the context in which you're racing or running down the track.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So we need to take the blinkers off and say, we know the rickle goes out.
33:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's get intentional.
33:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: As a coach, it's not only what do you want.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's what is needed.
33:21
[SPEAKER_01]: What's necessary now.
33:23
[SPEAKER_01]: What does the wider community or even the world need from you and your leadership?
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's much bigger questions and a lot more becomes possible when you speak to that.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, the other thing which I'm sure I'll sound obvious to people is short term to long term change.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we aiming for here?
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And most of us don't think longer than our own lifetimes.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But I learned from living some with some indigenous people in the Amazon rainforest that that's a very kind of myopic view again.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, there's, we are a product of the ancestors that came before us.
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: and there'll be people and I know this from my granddaughter now I've got a felt sense of this.
34:12
[SPEAKER_01]: People that will come after us.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is the world we want to leave behind?
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And how are we contributing to that?
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And what is our role to play in that?
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And let me be clear, I'm not saying you've got to have this huge grand global vision.
34:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You just got to find your small part that you can play in this bigger dance that we can all do in the industry.
34:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Because to me, if we come together collectively, what becomes possible is so much bigger than anything I can hold on my own.
34:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So a community of coaches, a collective of coaches, all doing this work, makes a huge ripple in the world.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I mean by being a sacred change maker and expanding our capacity.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, one of my favorite things to do is to walk around Amsterdam, other places I go to, imagining what it was like, you know, a thousand years ago, but also imagining more, more enjoyable is to think about what will it be like a thousand years from now or a five hundred years from now.
35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
35:25
[UNKNOWN]: Um.
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something so poignant about that, so heart opening and also if you combine that with looking videos of how vast our universe is, that's truly, you can, sometimes my wife says like, if you've been watching those videos again, because I come down and I'm like, he's just, it does something to you when you start to feel how,
35:52
[SPEAKER_00]: how vast things are.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just wanted to add that online.
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You just triggered something for me.
35:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So back in, gosh, I'm trying to think what year it was 2011, 2012.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I interviewed Sir John Weitington.
36:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was having a conversation with him there about global.
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And he turned around to me and he said in this car, I wish I could find them, I need to go and find the interview.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He said to me, he said, global, that's way too small.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, we need to be universal.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time, I was a bit like,
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Universal.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is what he was speaking to, you know, we are really, we see ourselves.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's funny because there's different lenses we can use for humanity.
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We can look at ourselves and say, we think we dominate the world.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: But then if you come down to the individual, most of us feel, like, you know, does our life really matter?
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is, yes, it does.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, I'm gonna speak to a stereotype now.
36:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I think each of us,
36:54
[SPEAKER_01]: has, and I can't remember who said this.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was Seth Goldin.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a song to sing.
37:00
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your song?
37:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The sparrows out on the tree outside.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not saying I'm not singing because the one on the other bow is already singing the same song.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just singing because they love it.
37:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the other thing about the calling.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like find your song, find that, and then
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Sing it because that's what you came here to do and I believe, well, no, I'm going to say stronger, I know.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're alive at this time, you came here for a reason at this time.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We are called and the question is, are you listening to what your call is?
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what's going
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm holding like three or four threads I want to bring in back in.
37:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But let me pick up, because it's a beautiful kind of territory that you're kind of pointing out here.
38:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to zoom in on,
38:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You said, like, taking people where they need to go, or, you know, the transformational encounter itself, and you've talked about resonance, and even, you know, your psychic capabilities, and I wonder if you could say something about your, you know, what, what is it?
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, let me, let me back up and say, I think this, this adds to what you were saying earlier about.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, perhaps in earlier, the maturing of our field when it was in its earlier stages, you know, we were fixing things or providing solutions and, you know, we talked about
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: on this podcast about the self-improvement paradigm, which is ubiquitous all over YouTube, and learning specific skills that can have its use.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to our evolution, it's problematic, and so I see emerging ways of coaching which are about working in resonance, meeting what's here, including what's here radically, and as we do,
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It begins to experience some folds and an intelligence comes, starts to shine through and inform the work.
39:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if you have something similar, or what is it that ignites that sense of evolution of consciousness for you?
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, um,
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it ignites in so many different spaces is probably the best way to describe it.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And somatically, intrapersonally.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I,
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: When I'm with someone in a session, there's getting myself ready first for a session, of course, you know, most of us do that in some way, but for me there's an inner awareness of self coherence, making sure that I'm open and I'm clean and I'm clearing my own energetic field.
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then getting intentional about that field, that I'm about to invite somebody else to
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: come into and co-create with me.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So as a client comes into a session, it's then me listening deeply, reading the energy of my client and speaking to where they are right now.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm in the inter personal field and I'm really looking at getting intentional about how and what it is that
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: we're both kind of creating energetically, not just through the conversation that we all know so well, but I'm getting a sense of how are they arriving?
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is that heart open?
41:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that heart closed?
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, are they in their head?
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, have they dissociated from their body, which to be fair, most people do?
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the first piece is really getting a sense of,
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are they?
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And then what are they carrying that's not theirs, right?
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So the stuff of the conversation, you know, I think, and I, there are different people that speak to their psychologically is, is it my stuff is it there stuff or is it somebody else's stuff that's coming in and I can tell you in conversations today the stuff people are bringing is usually not theirs.
41:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be from the collective.
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be fear.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: of what's happening and how it's going to impact us in our lives.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I've been in the intrapersonal space and then the intrapersonal space.
41:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the multi-personal starts to come in so they might start talking about the team or the family or their relationships and then we're in this social field.
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's then we're starting to unpack.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: what that is even.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And how that's impacting how they're showing up.
42:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Because remember, however they're showing up here is how they're showing up everywhere really.
42:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So getting them to relax into the space.
42:24
[SPEAKER_01]: helps to open them, to change, get them ready for the change, right?
42:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And get them into that deeper space.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So really understanding the, so I can speak to this in a different way, understanding their home frequency, their baseline frequency.
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So where is it they're always pinging back to?
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the, the frequency they're resonating at, which is like their,
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: they kind of comfort zone in a way and then looking at what is their narrative frequency.
42:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the stories they're telling themselves about their life, their leadership, their business, their whatever.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
43:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that and is that in alignment with the home frequency?
43:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have a resonance gap?
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: that we need, I need to attend to.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also there's the adaptive frequency, because usually they come with things that are wrong or not working.
43:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So how does that impact their energy when they're under stress or under pressure?
43:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What's their adaptive frequency?
43:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do they ping to?
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what happens do they retreat and withdraw or or do they get really bossy and start trying to control things like what are they doing?
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can hear how from a client's perspective, I'm still dealing with the conversation and you could say powerful questions and all of that.
43:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But really what I'm doing is I'm opening their eyes a little wider to their world.
43:51
[SPEAKER_01]: and then we go out in systems.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So they understand the impact that's having in their world.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we also, and usually depending on their home frequency, this can take some time for me to build trust to do this, but then we get to trans personal.
44:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's their connection to something bigger than themselves?
44:12
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?
44:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What's their calling in that space?
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, as the coach, I'm in the impersonal, which is where I'm looking at things just like a witness being in neutrality here, which we also know very well as coaches, but then we've got the, um, the extra personal because relationships and social energetic fields and not just with other people.
44:38
[SPEAKER_01]: There were things as well, so for leaders, it can be what's your relationship with the organization, like what's your relationship with your career, what's your relationship with life, do you trust life?
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you not?
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what's that?
44:52
[SPEAKER_01]: These are very defining kind of things in our life, and then of course,
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I will get to the extra personal, which is planetary resonance, which is cosmic to your word, but systems nature environment, how do we relate into that?
45:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So no matter what somebody brings, like there's a way of questioning at different levels of consciousness,
45:20
[SPEAKER_01]: that invites them in because if I have somebody in three days down at the bottom, you know, to them, if I can't see it and touch it's not real, right?
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't start talking from a higher frequency vibration, which to be fair, a lot of coaches float around in the higher frequencies.
45:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can't start speaking about unity consciousness and stuff, because they just won't hear me.
45:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll be a massive gap between me and them, so it doesn't resonate.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So therefore I need to come down and then take them on a journey, a transformational one, through the different layers so that they can expand.
46:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why coaching over time can really help build the trust so that people will follow, they'll go and most people today, I'm noticing there's a real appetite for this, even in spaces where I wouldn't expect there to be
46:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's primal.
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: We want more meaning in our life.
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to know that our life is matted.
46:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to know that we've made a difference, no matter who we are and what we're doing.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us find that through family and children, but more and more it's becoming part of business and leadership.
46:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the most recent research is showing purpose-driven businesses out
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: normal businesses like 14 to 1, not double, but 14 to 1.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have a widget shop and then you have a widget shop with a purpose, that widget shop with a purpose, even in like transactional businesses, commodity businesses, they're still outperforming.
47:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a there's an economic
47:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like a human, meaning, laden, reason and one of the things that I often say to leaders and coaches is, do you want to be the best leader in the world or the best coach in the world?
47:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you want to be the best coach for the world or the best leader for the world?
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a few letters difference, but it completely changes the way you feel about what you're
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What I appreciate about what you're sharing is that there's a kind of systemic or, you know, broad, like territory of relationality, you know, that it's about looking at my relationship to things.
48:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's interesting.
48:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the insight that day of like, we sound really obvious, but it just dropped from me of like everything's relationship really.
48:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to, I know I'm a bit of a slow learner sometimes, but it's like, I just saw how I can't separate myself from the things I'm related to.
48:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like impossible.
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm guessing pointing to, and I want to come back to what I'm appreciating about your perspective, but I'm pointing to what it seems to be this shift and you're articulating it a bit of a move out of a predominantly materialist paradigm.
48:45
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the world of kind of solid, re-affired, solid, world of parts, static, and that's brought certain gifts, particularly in the realm of scientific innovation, and there has been consequences, and it feels like we're moving into a world of process of the relationship between things.
49:07
[SPEAKER_00]: becoming more primary.
49:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And the luminous, you know, that there's this, we've kind of thrown the baby out with the bathwater with the sacred as it can throw now.
49:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly, the people were responding to what, you know, the word sacred.
49:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like interesting, isn't it?
49:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I appreciate about what you're saying is that it's also about tuning in to the resonance of things.
49:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you speak to certain systemic thinkers, sometimes it can feel like if you approach that rationally,
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: it can feel like really complicated and really complex.
49:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like what like a but actually if you approach it on a resonance perspective it's like well we can start to feel the felt sense, the resonance of those relationships and that's where the transformational
50:15
[SPEAKER_00]: In a sense, I'm imagining, and there's the question really, it's like, how are you inviting people into that transformation?
50:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it through helping them feel the felt sense of their relatedness and their challenges and what calls them, and that as you bring that into awareness, there's an opportunity to
50:39
[SPEAKER_00]: metabolize where that energy has become stuck.
50:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's an opening taking place.
50:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just curious, like, what is it?
50:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there an injunction or a move you're making with people?
50:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's many.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: you know in many ways I think we're also moving into a world where you know when I look back on my career Joel I remember when we used to have like you know I don't know ten principles of leadership and you can just follow that or we can create a competence framework in your organization and then you stick to the framework and we'll all be successful.
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not what it's like now so there's a very
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: personal dynamic at play in a way.
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But it taps into the bodies of work that we all know and love as coaches like, you know, trauma-informed coaching, right?
51:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We can work in somatic ways and it depends on the individual in front of me and what they're presenting with and kind of what's needed and but also where they're willing to go.
51:41
[SPEAKER_01]: What are they ready to?
51:44
[SPEAKER_01]: to kind of shift and transform in many ways so a lot of it comes from the home frequency and understanding what their neighbors are because in your home frequency there's always something pulling you back, holding you back to the past.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: an energy which is the one directly underneath where your home frequency is.
52:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's always kind of pulling you down and then there's the other one that the other thread is the rising frequency.
52:13
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the thing that you've got to sense of and you might go there a little bit but then you ping back because that's what's pulling you forward.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I remember back in the 90s
52:24
[SPEAKER_01]: like away from energy and toward energy.
52:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the same thing.
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we call the energies then, but that's the same thing.
52:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this a toward person or an away from person, right?
52:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can tap into semantics, we can tap into NLP, we can tap into coaching frameworks, I can tap into leadership frameworks.
52:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are concrete ways that, you know, an exercise is that we can use, but in many ways,
52:51
[SPEAKER_01]: it's pressing the person.
52:54
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it feels like to me.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's bringing them into the here and now.
53:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And just helping them too.
53:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is going to sound my sound odd, but helping them turn and face reality with their whole self.
53:11
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so there's a wholeness piece because of course, like when you spoke then about systems, the other thing is that we forget, your system, I'm a system, we're all a system system, systems aren't just big things, like I'm a system and when I realize that, what's really interesting about where I am now in this season of life is,
53:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really felt this when I was in the Amazon rainforest is, what is me and what is not me in relationships?
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when I look at coaching, this is a space I work in a lot, because what I find with changes, if somebody believes that an identity or an ontological level, this is not me, I don't do this, then they won't.
54:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I can expand what is me,
54:05
[SPEAKER_01]: then there's more curiosity to try things that the edges of what is me and not me and then we can move into that.
54:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, in terms of questions and I know that as coaches we love questions, but I would say it's not the questions that are important, it's the energy, it's the tonality, it's all the stuff that is invisible in the communication.
54:43
[SPEAKER_01]: you can never be successful.
54:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, because if you don't resonate as an individual system on a personal energetic field, you're actually not going to be very well either, because it impacts our health.
54:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So...
54:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, amazing.
55:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm with you.
55:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And what comes up for me is how there's like this edge.
55:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to see how this connects for you with the home frequency and the kind of, would you call it leading frequency or the...
55:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There's that.
55:18
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the adaptive frequency under pressure and then the narrative frequency, the stories we tell ourselves.
55:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I got the sense there was almost like a leading edge frequency as well, rising rising rising rising.
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:35
[SPEAKER_00]: that I find that, having incredibly potent place to live at, and that's not something I do all the time, because I think what happens is, and I see this with my clients, is you habituate.
55:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So you reach an edge and often you can feel that edge, because there's a sense of in life and flow state, it often comes with flow and real refined attention
56:05
[SPEAKER_00]: and then it can become familiar in one habituates.
56:11
[SPEAKER_00]: At the same time, my sense is that over time, we actually do that less and less.
56:17
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a sense of more and more living in a kind of
56:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's ever really stopped to tune into their home frequency, to realize what that is.
56:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Perhaps a lot of the time people are in a kind of slightly reactive adaptive frequency.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, I'm sure that people, of course, people are in home frequencies as well.
56:53
[SPEAKER_00]: to then, you know, listen for that rising frequency as well and begin to articulate that and help people attune to that, allows it to kind of download or crystallise even more.
57:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, absolutely.
57:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And giving language to a home frequency, I find really helps, because we love labels.
57:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We really do, and it helps people feel safe when
57:17
[SPEAKER_01]: when I can explain to someone, you know, right now where you are is, you know, you're in the heart energy, right?
57:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but you're starting to come up, you're starting to rise into having the courage from the heart to speak your truth.
57:34
[SPEAKER_01]: because, and especially for women leaders, this is a huge edge, is being in a context where they feel they're not welcome and speaking their truth, all right?
57:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, this is how do we find our voice, how do we become fully expressed?
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Not in a way that's going to hurt other people, but doing it in a way that's going to contribute and add value.
57:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And so understanding the edge, giving it some language, can help people recognise and raise their awareness, because the process of resonance, which I haven't spoken to, and probably should have, is just a very simple, four-step thing, and it's, in order to resonate, you need to raise the awareness first.
58:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Then alignment, which is in this personal, energetic field system, are my in alignment.
58:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So those two are both internal or personal resonance.
58:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if we move out in relationship with the world and all the people and things in it, then we're starting to look at attunement.
58:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I attune to this?
58:41
[SPEAKER_01]: This environment, this context, this relationship that I am now in, can I attune here?
58:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the final piece is integration, which is what you were speaking to, Jol, that habitual, and then starting developmentally to value that a little bit more than the
59:01
[SPEAKER_01]: the comfort zone.
59:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So now starting to realize at an identity level that I'm now rising, I'm becoming, which is another of my favorite words.
59:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because, of course, we're not static, like you said, we don't live in a new Tonyan physics world anymore, it's not all particles and molecules and stuff that we can see.
59:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything's moving all the time.
59:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, ourselves and our body perpetually moving, even if I think I'm sitting still.
59:31
[SPEAKER_01]: The desk, when you look at it at a subatomic level, it's more space than it is, is matter.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet we live in this world, as though it's all fundamental physical 3D matter.
59:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was listening to Neil deGrasse Tyson the other day.
59:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And he blew my mind when he said, and this is just what he said.
59:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, if we put, if I got all of humanity,
59:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got rid of all the space in the, I don't know, how many million of us there are now eight million of us around the world.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got rid of all the space.
1:00:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The matter could fit inside of a sugar cube.
1:00:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was saying that makes no sense to me and it just kind of blows my mind because that makes no sense.
1:00:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's how different the world is to what we might think or how we've been educated to think.
1:00:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is science now.
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not just spirituality or woo-woo stuff.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This is grounded in quantum science now, quantum mechanics.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We know these things, so why not take advantage of them when we're helping to get intentional about change that matters?
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Dea, a question I have, it's something I'm exploring.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, that is, that is astounding, isn't it?
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I think these beautiful, these beautiful scientists are like, because there's a, oh, God, there's a guy who's forgotten his name, you might remember.
1:01:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, he was in Dur, D-Reeam.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember the pop group?
1:01:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And now?
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, I don't know who you mean.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of his name, I don't know.
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_00]: he's just incredible.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_00]: If you listen to him for five minutes, it's like, yeah, and I forgot what I was going to say.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn, that was a good one as well.
1:01:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what comes to me now is like sacred as well.
1:01:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I feel that we've, with the same way that we've viewed
1:01:34
[SPEAKER_00]: the world is being solid and material.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We've, it's become stripped of the sacred and that's probably why people say that when you, you put the name sacred change makers because there's a kind of allergy to it.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, wow, the world is just magical.
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a mystery and of course there's a lot of fear and suffering right now and I don't wanna diminish that, but
1:01:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, I think it's part of part of the invitation of our times is to, it's to kind of bring that sacredness back in and it doesn't mean seriousness either.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
1:02:12
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
1:02:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other side is this is.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, this is primal, like if we look at this energetic system that is me, it's physical, it's emotional, it's mental, and it's spiritual.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we're going to show up whole, then we can't just dislocate a piece of us that's primal, right?
1:02:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Because then we're showing up fragmented.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the other thing that I find my work kind of navigating into is
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_01]: helping people go and pick up the fragments of themselves that they've left stranded on their life somewhere.
1:02:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the same with all levels of system.
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same in organization or life.
1:02:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same in team dynamics.
1:02:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's how do we?
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of craft or get intentional about a wholeness that wants to emerge.
1:03:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing, it's already there.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that shot me massively is,
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_01]: the power of this question.
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I work with sea level execs and most of them are men because despite the fact of working women's leadership for 30 years, still when I started we had I think 6% of women were CEOs now were 8% so you know we're still not making a lot of headway here but if when I say to a leader so and it's obviously not the first question I asked but if I say to them,
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_01]: If you held your leadership a sacred, what would be different?
1:03:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You should hear what comes out.
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like an incredible...
1:03:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like verbal diarrhea of all the stuff they've backed up that they haven't dared to speak in the context.
1:04:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And it comes out and then we start to get to essence, like what really matters here, what really matters to this person.
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the song that I was talking about earlier.
1:04:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We've to find what really matters and then live it.
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think purpose gets any more complicated than that.
1:04:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's true individually as it is collectively.
1:04:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you find...
1:04:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course you attract people probably that resonate with you, so they're open to that question about sacredness.
1:04:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But are you finding that people are more open to that kind of question these days?
1:04:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I remember, I remember the times when I used to be working with people that had been sent to train it in organisation like, and still occasionally do I still get like, you know, a CEO when a chairman of the board the board has decided that the CEO needs coaching and that CEOs like, oh, okay, so it's not always true what you're saying and that's an interesting path to walk as well, but
1:05:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there is much more of an appetite.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will say pandemic, right?
1:05:20
[SPEAKER_01]: When we were all in lockdown, that although it was a huge challenge at the time for so many organizations and businesses and people coming out of that,
1:05:30
[SPEAKER_01]: it's like it, it was a pause.
1:05:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like a sacred pause to me like it's like you know go into the naughty corner now humans because you've just been doing this and I need to think about and reflect on what you've been doing and it's almost like we came out and we're like
1:05:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I can't tell you the amount of people now that are not ready to sell their soul to the organisation anymore.
1:05:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's partly being driven by the millennials coming up now in age.
1:05:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But like when I first started, people would just kind of in the work they were doing, there were being good, compliant, doing whatever the system asked them to do and then going home.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
1:06:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was work back in their 80s and 90s.
1:06:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But now it's like, no, my work defines me, I want it to give me meaning, I want to do something valuable.
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's starting to come through and it's shifting everything because it's like we're remembering.
1:06:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're not just a cog in a wheel, right?
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't George Orwell's 1984.
1:06:33
[SPEAKER_01]: and becoming self-authored as consciousness rises which it is doing slowly, then we're getting more of us saying, hang on a minute, why are we doing what we've always done if it doesn't work?
1:06:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas I can't tell you the first, I would say the first 15 years of my career.
1:06:52
[SPEAKER_01]: People you say, oh yeah, when I say, why do you do that?
1:06:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because it's the way we've always done it.
1:06:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That was an okay answer then.
1:07:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not now, it's not, it doesn't pass in the same way.
1:07:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think we're becoming more of ourselves.
1:07:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we're all on that quest, that journey, of course, all the invisible unseen stuff starts to come into play, because we realize that and leaders always look shocked when I say this.
1:07:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in the organizational system of which they're apart, most of the things that are driving the show are invisible.
1:07:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, I don't know what you mean.
1:07:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, culture, you can't see culture.
1:07:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nowhere.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Leadership.
1:07:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't see leadership anywhere.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we start to normalize the invisible, which we have in some areas,
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an expansion of that, that's all it is.
1:07:57
[SPEAKER_00]: There.
1:07:58
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you talk about the self-authoring and then, because I think of how...
1:08:06
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this phase where it's powerful to think about who am I?
1:08:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Would I want to move out of the inherited kind of socialize in conditioning or roles?
1:08:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at some point, who am I?
1:08:21
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I want?
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Get some full feeling?
1:08:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, what life, what do you want with me?
1:08:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a, that's,
1:08:28
[SPEAKER_00]: a profound move into a kind of in Solomon, you know, and it's sacredness and I wonder if you about in the coaching the role of the sacred informing the coaching as well.
1:08:46
[SPEAKER_00]: This almost feels like a taboo subject and it has some moral ethical considerations for sure, like I've wondered about
1:08:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I've tried this with consent, asking for guidance, for support, and it's been remarkable, what happened, and people like Peter Hawkins also said to me, and I was like, that's awesome, because that backs up the way I feel, he said, when you get to the edge, you pray, pray.
1:09:18
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about that kind of move?
1:09:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Why I'm the cautious around it is why, you know, because of the response you've got to calling your sacred change make, because I think a lot of people would feel put off for, yeah, maybe even offended or, you know, like it depends on your religious persuasion.
1:09:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah,
1:09:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it's a great question, Joel, because I think there is a lot of fear.
1:09:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right.
1:09:51
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I think installment is a key piece.
1:09:58
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a word that I like to use and that is radical.
1:10:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like to use that word because it has a double meaning, because it means going back to the roots, which is okay, right?
1:10:11
[SPEAKER_01]: To go back to the roots, the core, the essence, the soul, right, soul of an organization, soul of a team, soul of me, right?
1:10:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is the real essence piece.
1:10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But radical is also at the leading edge.
1:10:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's edgy, it's innovative, it's creative, it's uncertain,
1:10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: that I think it's an advanced place for coaches to go but absolutely it's where we need to be these days because we have to embody, I believe, the work that we're doing because you can only take people as far as you've gone yourself.
1:10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So
1:10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't teach someone to be okay on uncertain, on the edge of uncertainty, but you can modulate yourself.
1:10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things I've learned, I mean, I said here, I wasn't sure if I was gonna say it publicly or not, but I am psychic, right?
1:11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a lot of fear for me about coming out.
1:11:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Still is fear about speaking to that, but this will blow your mind.
1:11:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've channeled the fact that the future of coaching
1:11:20
[SPEAKER_01]: is leader as channel.
1:11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what does that mean?
1:11:24
[SPEAKER_01]: That means listening deeply to emergence to what wants to emerge in this space, being okay with not knowing.
1:11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in Peter Hawkins models is so well, right?
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like I, like he was telling me that he was with people and like a CEO,
1:11:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not going to do that like I don't need to perform for you and I think that that's one of the shifts from performative change to the changes that are really needed and and are already wanting to emerge the signs and the signals of there.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: internally as well as externally if we can just notice if we can raise our awareness to them.
1:12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like everybody wants this and we're doing this.
1:12:16
[SPEAKER_01]: What I've noticed is it's actually a vertical thing.
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So speaking and being okay with not knowing, I talk about in coaching we talk a lot about dialogue.
1:12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I talk about triologue, right?
1:12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, in this conversation that's me and there's you, which is the normal dialogue.
1:12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But what if we open the space in a triangle for the, for the, for the divine, the sacred?
1:12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it is that wants to emerge to come through and you listen for that and I listen for that.
1:12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: then what happens?
1:12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Then what becomes possible?
1:12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of course it's an illusion to think there's just me speaking and just you there.
1:12:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm bringing loads of people into the room that you know are close to me, people I've learnt from, people I love, like they're all part of me and I learn this when I was in the Amazon rainforest.
1:13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll tell you a quick story, so we were hiking one day.
1:13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really hot.
1:13:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We were hiking to another village that never, it didn't have a landing strip, so it very rarely saw Western people.
1:13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were hiking and I was, I just happened to be with the translator and the chief of the village and we were hiking away.
1:13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have in this conversation and the head of this village
1:13:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and he couldn't understand it.
1:13:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not joking this conversation went on for about two hours, but basically I couldn't understand what he was saying and he couldn't understand what I was saying because I was speaking from an eye-me-mind perspective like what it'd be lovely going get the award and he's like, I can't, right?
1:13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was trying to unpack what the can't was and it turns out he can't go because there is no me.
1:14:06
[SPEAKER_01]: in the actual nation, there is no me, there's just a wee.
1:14:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was saying, but I don't understand like what this is because I'd have to take the mountains and the rivers and the snakes and the forest and all of my village and I'd have to take everybody other than me, like I don't understand, right?
1:14:26
[SPEAKER_01]: and it shows the difference between the me and the we.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We are so hyper-individualistic in our Western culture and the actua are so hyper-we-focus-collective-focused and isn't it time we brought those closer together?
1:14:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's just an illusion that there's just me and you talking here.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there's other people speaking through us.
1:14:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, how do you, how does that come to you like the psychic knowing or the guidance?
1:15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you, is that something you're conscious of?
1:15:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it like feel different than if you're speaking or does it?
1:15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it just, you know, a kind of sensibility of it like it's just you just know that it's coming through in some way and it's hard to separate out.
1:15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: but it's been a journey and so it it started very separate there was me and my spirit guides right and I'm also a direct channel which means they can come in and use my voice
1:15:31
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's almost like Jane steps to the side and I'll call them the elders which we have a running joke me and them about this but anyway.
1:15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They're called the elders and they and they're not just one.
1:15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They're a group of disembodied souls is what they've talked to me about.
1:15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was a time when they first came through where
1:15:52
[SPEAKER_01]: it was Jane and then it was not Jane and it was the elders right and that still happens.
1:15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I still direct channel for my community and the stuff they're coming through with now is quite incredible about next year but anyway.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So they come through and then I have to listen back to the recording like everybody else because I don't know what's happened in that space.
1:16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the normal space, so in the past, I would say, couple of years, I've been integrating the channel.
1:16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been helping me to integrate.
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And now there's not really a Jane and a not Jane.
1:16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
1:16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just there.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have done so back in the day in the UK, I went to the British Spiritualist Society and did some training in all the Claire's, you know, Clevver, Williams, Clescenty and all of that.
1:16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I suppose I could use that language, but there's times when I can
1:16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: feel things, there's times when I...
1:16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I necessarily hear I just kind of know, but I can also see.
1:16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I also have the clever buoyancy so I can see things, I can see energies, as well.
1:17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I could have been a medium, but I chose not to develop that.
1:17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But here's the thing, Joel.
1:17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: You do this.
1:17:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not like I'm not special.
1:17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You do this.
1:17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We just don't, we're not educated to develop it.
1:17:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And like if you walk into a room and there's an atmosphere.
1:17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: you'll know, right?
1:17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the energetic imprint is there in the room.
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_01]: If you meet someone, this is true for everyone listening, you'll meet someone sometime that is a stranger.
1:17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you just click.
1:17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they resonate instantly.
1:17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, oh, it's like I remember you.
1:17:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't just get them to know you.
1:17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I remember you.
1:17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: like there's a deep knowing in that relationship.
1:17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you meet people and you think, I have no idea what this person's talking about.
1:17:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just can't click with the middle and that takes a bit more effort.
1:17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's reading energy.
1:18:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We all do it.
1:18:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a primal human skill.
1:18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I, you know, we can develop it further, but,
1:18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: When I speak to this, I've not met anybody yet that doesn't know what I'm talking about because it's part of our primal nature.
1:18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're in a room at a conference and then I don't know, somebody else's liberty in the industry walks in.
1:18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can feel it as palpable.
1:18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: They've walked in the room and everybody turns and goes, oh, you know, they're here.
1:18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
1:18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I mean?
1:18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it's like something you've got to learn, but really, yeah, we all do it.
1:18:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, and we're all transmitting something.
1:18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And some people you meet have a palpable transmission.
1:18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I once was in very close to the Dalai Lama.
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like a wave of joy that just overcame me.
1:18:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And everybody around me as you walked past.
1:18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: And for a long while, I was like, was that just placebo?
1:19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I just, but it was not.
1:19:08
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so much in what you're saying and I've heard people speculate or talk about how our psychic capabilities are, you know, actually emerging more in these times as a part of our evolution and, you know, this thing's like the telepathy tape switch.
1:19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
1:19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you think about that in the context of
1:19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: the change that the openness towards the new menace or sacred you know that that became your most popular podcast in the world for a period of time and I know it got critiqued but enough people I trust have you know I forgot its name now
1:19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote a piece recently, his name will come to me and it meant to me one of these autistic kids and was blown away by their psychic capabilities.
1:20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, it just makes sense to me.
1:20:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was actually recording a podcast this morning and with Nadia Turin Cheski and cheese, working with source and money, Peter Kunigs work.
1:20:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I found that brilliant because it's
1:20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in that they're naming that there's often a a source of a project or a business and that by becoming aware of that you can harness that even more and sometimes in, you know, a succession between CEOs, that source is not passed on properly and you get all kinds of issues.
1:20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Steve Jobs, when he got arrested for Apple,
1:20:47
[SPEAKER_00]: and it just was a disaster, and because he was still carrying the sourcing energy and that's right.
1:20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, really, that the source is a channel, you know?
1:20:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I've done that with projects where you just sit down suddenly and something just comes through you, you know?
1:21:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:21:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the more of matured, the more that happens, the more there's capability to get out of the way and
1:21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, let take the hands off to steering wheel and something move through.
1:21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And my growing sense is that we're all serving the same purpose really.
1:21:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is going to sound really obvious, but it dropped me the day, which is we're serving the evolution of life itself.
1:21:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, if you listen to people's purposes, like what moves are most deeply.
1:21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
1:21:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a meta purpose, which is like, oh, and I'm serving like great a connection in the world and more beauty and truth and goodness and more, it's like, so it feels that's like the unitive speaking through each of this, you know?
1:22:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's one of the, yeah, so few thoughts there.
1:22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah because for me it's we're all in service of life and then the polarity we're all fearing death.
1:22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So we know this psychologically that most issues stem from a fear of death, right?
1:22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then at the top we're serving life so the away from is death and the towards is towards life.
1:22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and you know when you were talking about the telepathy tape, that's very close to home for me.
1:22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my daughters is autistic and incredibly psychic.
1:22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, I just feel that it's almost like her.
1:22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's well as we were saying earlier, it's a sense that we all have that we've kind of dislocated in a way and ignored and therefore, you know, it's like a muscle if you don't use it, you know, atrophies.
1:22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but I feel this is a time of reclamation, of integration, of really exploring and getting curious about what does it mean to be human?
1:23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: In the age where AI is rising, technology is taking over so many aspects and quite frankly doing it better than we can in some things, you know the way it deals with big data, pattern recognition, all of that stuff and if you bring that into coaching the transactional level of coaching it can do really well.
1:23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think this is an invitation, Joel, because it's bringing us into this space of, well, what does it mean to be human?
1:23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And what is our world like and who do we want to be in?
1:23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do we want to become in?
1:23:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But it does mean that we need to leave things behind.
1:23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, changes aren't just about adding more in it, so we've got to let go and transcend of the stuff that
1:23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: is no longer working for us.
1:23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, when we really think about it in consciousness terms, we have to release what's holding us back to be able to rise into that higher frequency.
1:24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things for me that you just triggered as you were talking was,
1:24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a really good business mind.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Strategy, light stuff.
1:24:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got it.
1:24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I can nail it.
1:24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really good.
1:24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: My intellect's really strong.
1:24:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's got me to where I am.
1:24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But these last five or six years has been about letting that go.
1:24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so could change makers.
1:24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm the leader.
1:24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but really I'm not.
1:24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the first business I've run that is being led by where the work wants to go.
1:24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Where does it want to go next?
1:24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I am literally listening every day.
1:24:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if you ask me what I'm going to be doing in three months time, I don't know because of course I'm in the trialogue.
1:24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm listening deeply to what wants to emerge, where it wants to go and
1:24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, who it wants to attract.
1:24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm releasing some of their stuff like in marketing and things that I know that works.
1:25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm right on that edge of just calling in the souls.
1:25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Which sounds weird and I can't quite believe I've just said that publicly, but yeah.
1:25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it and, you know, I think it points to like the future of business and the brand becomes a field, you know, the brand is right next to me.
1:25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, my highest intention for coaches rising is that it is a field, a helpable field that evokes people, you know, people sense of calling and evolution.
1:25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if there's anything we haven't named that you feel is important so far in your work.
1:25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I do have a couple of questions bubbling up as well.
1:26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a lot we haven't named, but I also trust that maybe we don't need to.
1:26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I think frequency feels like a big piece for me.
1:26:16
[SPEAKER_01]: because science is also backing that up.
1:26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So understanding frequency personally, but also the frequencies of systems and and wholeness is another piece.
1:26:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've spoken to most of it.
1:26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I trust that what's meant to emerge here is doing so.
1:26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe there's a part two where we go deeper into some of the height of the frequency, home frequency, rising frequency in systemic frequency.
1:26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like, that's where it's at for me.
1:26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a, that deserves a whole episode, maybe.
1:26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask the question I had then, which was,
1:27:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you said you channeled and they spoke about next year and curious, would you be willing to share what they said about that does that feel private?
1:27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to I want to really like give a get out here because it you know, I might feel like that was done for a very specific space.
1:27:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want I want to honor that.
1:27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I mean, I can, and I don't think it's going to be, uh, you know, what I'm going to share is not necessarily going to be a surprise to people.
1:27:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think, and one thing that before I do speak to it, I want to say that there are, you know,
1:27:40
[SPEAKER_01]: the way I've been speaking today and the way I've spoken about my own personal challenges right at the beginning of our conversation.
1:27:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There's different lenses you can use to look at it.
1:27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can look at it through that oh it's a challenge, you know I was taken out of life, I was ill, I was bedridden and then I was told I was going to die.
1:27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Right and that's awful isn't it right and then you can look at it the other side is yeah But who did I become through that process and then what was I able to contribute and what was I able to do that?
1:28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: If I hadn't walked through that dot night of the soul there You know the person that walks out of a dot night of the soul is a very different person to the one that walks in
1:28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So, having said that, I can speak to next year in terms of different lenses of looking at it.
1:28:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, there is elements of the Yen and the Yang, the Light and the Shadow.
1:28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So, illumination, invitation, rising consciousness.
1:28:34
[SPEAKER_01]: is there for those of us that are open and awake and are aware to it.
1:28:39
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a rising consciousness and a rising frequency happening through many different aspects of our lives, from different industries to leadership to governmental governance.
1:28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Right the way through to what does it mean to be a citizen of this country,
1:29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: what it means to be a British citizen, an American citizen, European, whatever it is, right?
1:29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a whole kind of, so I've been shown it as the Mobius in a way.
1:29:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So on one side of the Mobius, you can look at it from the light, the in perspective.
1:29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a growing integration between
1:29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's many prophecies and mythologies around this, but this is the time of integration is next year or at the beginning of it.
1:29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a number of years that are going to go on.
1:29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been shown up to 2030 of this time of deep integration, which speaks to a weaving of, so, you know, the me and not me, but also you think of that in all levels of
1:29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: systems, so they're in my team, they're not in my team, they're inside my organization, they're outside my organization.
1:30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a blurring of boundaries as well as this integration starts to come in.
1:30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is an elimination and it is an invitation.
1:30:17
[SPEAKER_01]: However, there's also collapse, there's trauma, there's suffering that is coming in which this is where I think of us as coaches.
1:30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We're here to guide, we're here to help alleviate some of that suffering because whenever there's change, there's always some level of suffering and we're in a time of great change and I think I've heard you say this, soul defining times
1:30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the depth of it now and we think that AI is going to take our jobs and things are going to collapse.
1:30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already happening.
1:30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, do I know what the outcome is?
1:30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.
1:31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We have free will.
1:31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: My question is what will we decide to do with where we are right now?
1:31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: actually just like I said in coaching, turn and face reality and realize where we are.
1:31:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm in the Midwest of America here and I can tell you it's really shocking, the amount of senior leaders I meet, senior execs and founders and people that are really successful, been really successful in three days.
1:31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: still believe that things like climate change is a conspiracy theory.
1:31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't exist.
1:31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So awakening is going to continue raising awareness to the challenges that we're facing, but also the collective coming together to actually start to support put structures of support in place.
1:31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I've been shown that, for towards the end of next year, going into 2021,
1:32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: but it depends, it depends on how open we become.
1:32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there are individuals, of course, that are open, but we have a lot of systems and structures that keep us in the past, that keep us in the negative.
1:32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Just the media, I mean, we all know that bad news sells better than good news.
1:32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So therefore, we're bombarded by information.
1:32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's how do we,
1:32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: like self-author in this time.
1:32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some of us that are doing this individually.
1:32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The big question is that we're going to be able to do it collectively.
1:32:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Globally, not just America does this and China does this and Europe does this, but are we actually going to come together?
1:32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Because right now the pace of change in the direction we need to go, not just choose to go, is way too slow
1:32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at all the inequalities and I see it here in Columbus, Ohio.
1:33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: with what's happening with the government at the moment there's just a like the wealth gap is getting bigger if you're pouring America it's not a great place to be right now and the structures are just not in place to catch people that are falling and so yes that's happening at the same time so it's like the title of that movie what was it everything everywhere all at once he also bit like that and the question I think we all have is
1:33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Where will I stand in this space?
1:33:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Where am I going to stand?
1:33:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't be who it was.
1:33:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It said it might be in Archimedes.
1:33:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Give me a stand and a lever and I can shift the world.
1:33:46
[SPEAKER_01]: A place to stand and a lever.
1:33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's a growing rootedness.
1:33:53
[SPEAKER_01]: For us in terms of place, I've been shown that.
1:33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What that means, I'm not sure, but a growing rootedness in place.
1:34:01
[SPEAKER_01]: but also an ascension into the higher frequencies and more of a normalizing of understanding that
1:34:11
[SPEAKER_01]: some of the things that we've held as dear is like we're an individual.
1:34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It's me against the world.
1:34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an illusion.
1:34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So just like in the movie The Matrix, I think we're piercing the veil and continue to do that.
1:34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, what the outcome will be we don't know.
1:34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be collapse.
1:34:31
[SPEAKER_01]: People are talking about the complete collapse of democracy.
1:34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's that
1:34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: an awful lot more change at a faster pace than we used to.
1:34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's one of the things that's very clear is the pace of change next year, just as it has been this year, is much faster than we humans can keep up with.
1:34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that presents a challenge and of course an opportunity.
1:35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's...
1:35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: also part of the, but you know, it's an evolutionary pressure.
1:35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
1:35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That someone else I spoke to and get offered this, this term, the vessel.
1:35:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if we do our integration work, my sense is that that's where we can begin to cohere,
1:35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: the chaos, you know, and it can kind of encode into and root, you know, to use your words into new ways of collaboration.
1:35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And if not, then it will be incredibly confronting and yeah, difficult.
1:35:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I sit with, first of all, just as we just come to the end of our conversation, it's like,
1:35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there has to be almost like a mutation because I think back to when communism fell in Eastern Europe and that it fell in several countries over that I'm not sure of the time for him, but it was a very small window and so it couldn't have been orchestrated in a linear
1:36:17
[SPEAKER_00]: organized fashion it broke through that consciousness broke through and it couldn't be controlled and seems like that's the way this has got to work because otherwise we're fucked you know excuse my language and so yeah and just the just like comment I mean you can also respond
1:36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: When I feel and I'm talking about the broader spiritual field, we'll start to make a difference in a palpable way and that's a problematic way to phrase it.
1:37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm aware of it.
1:37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But so far the dominant structures are exhibiting very normal behaviours and expected behaviours and I'm
1:37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm waiting to see a kind of collective consciousness begin to permeate through more of the structures that are, or maybe new structures will emerge, which are imbued with it.
1:37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm ready for that, because I don't want it to just be talk.
1:37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know it won't, you know, it will be a bottom-up thing and that'll be the mutation, perhaps, and who knows, who really knows, like you said.
1:37:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's some of the reflections I sit with, sit with.
1:37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right though, and I think some of what you're speaking to is in our domain of free will, like what will we decide who will we choose to become?
1:37:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's where, and a lot of people are speaking to this, it's not like one person can't change the world necessarily.
1:37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's community, and this is why we're coming back into relationship with.
1:38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think it's really important that we start to expand our horizons into, you know, not just what we're used to holding, but expanding our capacity to hold more of the positive, more of the way we would more consciously like to go.
1:38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other thing to say is, of course, time is a construct.
1:38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a human construct.
1:38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: that it already exists what you're speaking to, Joel, in another dimension.
1:38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already there, and so to me it just feels like calling it in.
1:38:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe so.
1:38:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Jane, I just want to thank you deeply from the bottom of my heart for having you on the podcast and for your sharing of your soul so generously and
1:39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I just really touched by who you are and what you're sharing.
1:39:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Joel, thank you so much.
1:39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I just love being in conversation with you.
1:39:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's something emerges between us that's always unexpected, but really, really, I don't know, I don't have a word for it even, but it feels like you're someone that I remember.
1:39:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you.
1:39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do want to invite you to share where we can find out more about your work.
1:39:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, secretchangemakers.com is my website, but also if you're on LinkedIn, come and check out the coaching revolution newsletter where a lot of my writing is.
1:39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.
1:39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are, we're at the end of the podcast.
1:39:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Just have a heads up again.
1:39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not on our mailing list and you want to stay in the loop about other things we create, then head to coachesrising.com.
1:40:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Put your name in the sign-up box there.
1:40:01
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll also find some of our other offerings or online trainings for coaches there.
1:40:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And just want to end by wishing you well, and I'll see you again next time.
1:40:25
[UNKNOWN]: You