Latest / Identity at the Center / #186 - Oktane 22 - Customer Identity Cloud with Eugenio Pace and Shiv Ramji

Transcript

#186 - Oktane 22 - Customer Identity Cloud with Eugenio Pace and Shiv Ramji · Identity at the Center

0:09
You're listening to the identity of the center podcast, this is
0:13
the show that talks about identity and access management
0:15
and making sure you know who has access to what let's get
0:18
started. Welcome to the identity, the
0:26
center podcast I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
0:28
Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff, how are you?
0:30
Oh, not so bad yourself doing great.
0:32
So I took a picture of the tagline for the octane 22
0:35
conference where we are today. It was identity, belongs to you,
0:40
I posted it to LinkedIn. Ask people what it meant them.
0:43
I'm hoping that folks can think about that and maybe add a
0:46
comment to that post. Yeah that is definitely the
0:48
tagline for here. We are at Octane 22 Death.
0:51
Want to give a shout-out to OCTA.
0:53
Definitely hooking us up with this.
0:54
Nice, little room that we're in. We've got some folks in here.
0:56
We're going to in a second but shout out to Aqua team for
0:58
helping us out and definitely obviously for our SM, for
1:00
funding to travel. So with that little bit of Blur,
1:02
by the way, let's get to our guests in the room.
1:05
We've got Eugenio Pace. He's the president of customer
1:07
identity at a doctor, a doctor and Chef Ramsay.
1:10
Who's the chief product officer. At customer identity, at OCTA.
1:12
Welcome to the show, guys. Thank you for having me.
1:15
Yeah, so let's start with shiv one of the things we always like
1:18
to find it, you know, kind of find out is the identity origin
1:20
story. So, how did you get into the
1:22
identity world? Is it something that Shows.
1:24
Or did it choose you? And we'll start with you, Shiva.
1:26
Then we'll go to you Eugenio. I mean, I certainly didn't
1:29
choose identity, that's for sure.
1:31
And I think I accidentally ended up in the item in the world.
1:35
So started about, you know, 15 16 17 years ago, started as an
1:40
engineer and my first project that I worked on as an engineer
1:45
was to build a single, sign-on portal, kind of what we take for
1:48
granted. And we get out of the box today
1:50
from OCTA, was not the case. So, at the time I was working
1:55
for Nielsen. This is the TV ratings company,
1:59
and so, yes, I built the first single sound portal for the
2:01
field operations team. And so had first-hand knowledge
2:05
of building something like that. And so, that's the origin.
2:10
But over the years, I've just been a downstream consumer of
2:13
identity information, or I did with it was marketing
2:16
advertising, cloud computing. And then, about three years ago,
2:23
you hand your genuine Matthias reached out and said, hey, we're
2:26
building this thing to solve identity and would love for you
2:30
to join us on this journey. And I was like, yes.
2:34
I know that problem because I worked on in many, many years
2:36
ago. So, That really helped and
2:39
that's how I ended up here. So you're my best decisions,
2:44
isn't it? Great, when you find white
2:45
people just out in the world it just fit right naturally.
2:47
And it's like, yes, like we've done.
2:49
All the difference, makes all the difference for me.
2:52
Identity is also like a story of identity finding me and
2:57
Serendipity. I'm a developer.
2:59
I'm engineer as well. I was working for for Microsoft
3:04
and Microsoft was working in the in what eventually became.
3:08
Microsoft azure. And my job was part of the
3:12
visual studio team and so tools and Frameworks for developers.
3:16
And my my boss at the time said, like, you have to go and find
3:21
anything that stands in the way for developers to build in the
3:25
cloud and it was like a new paradigm.
3:28
And so I started doing research, you know, how things are
3:31
different. The network the latency, the
3:33
deployment infrastructure, everything is somewhat
3:36
different, and I quickly realized that, Identity
3:41
management was a big obstacle for building in the cloud or
3:45
moving applications to the cloud.
3:48
And so the that was the start of the journey and since then, you
3:52
know, here we are octane 22. So, and you mentioned Microsoft,
3:58
we've had Vittorio Bertolucci on, on our show multiple times.
4:01
He's a friend of the program. I understand you guys wrote a
4:03
book together which is not something that I think we knew
4:05
about until literally a couple minutes ago.
4:06
So what is what was that about? Yes, so So actually my very
4:12
first conversation about identity was with Victoria and
4:16
so I still remember Microsoft had this lab building 20 in the
4:21
campus. And we had like this, it was an
4:24
amazing place where you can experiment with technology and
4:28
brainstorm and I have this vivid memory of having like a wide, I
4:32
can massive whiteboard in the the great Vittorio style, you
4:37
know, like, great artistic Whiteboard.
4:42
And he explained to me, like how mother and identity works and,
4:48
you know, claims and Federation and how some all worked and
4:53
ws-trust. And all these protocols that
4:56
were was an entire world that I didn't know about.
4:59
So, when I was discovering this, this challenge, we captured all
5:05
the challenges in a little book that we call a third.
5:10
So, So, the writers of the book, was we toriel myself Matthias,
5:15
the founder of the other founder of a serum and a couple of our
5:19
other experts in the domain. And we published a book in 2009.
5:24
It was like a little very popular book, not the New York
5:28
Times, you know, bestseller list, but not yet.
5:31
We'll fix that on the shell. You know, it's on Amazon.
5:35
And so that was a big success in Microsoft.
5:40
Because it captured like in a, it was a concise and it was
5:45
like, I was like, at least of scenarios where identity was
5:50
really difficult to implement. You know, some sign on apis and
5:54
these and that was 2009. So I got to ask 2009 how much of
6:00
that content do you think it's still relevant today?
6:02
Or has it changed completely that?
6:04
You know, that 30% of it is we ignore longer valid or is it
6:08
less than that of their constants that were Well you
6:11
know that's a great question because it ties into the
6:14
timelessness of what we do. The solutions are different and
6:19
maybe we don't use WS Federation as much as we use it before and
6:24
maybe we make OCTA. We make some of those things
6:28
kind of irrelevant because it's not a no, no longer a concern,
6:32
which is part of our goal is to turn anybody in an expert
6:36
without being an expert. But the concepts the
6:41
architecture are Timeless and it's like those concepts are
6:45
still, I still send people. You know, if you go and search
6:48
on stack Overflow, which I every once in a while, I spend a few
6:52
minutes, you know, going around. I still answer questions on
6:56
identity and access management with chapters of the book and he
7:00
said, oh, you know, chapter one, we talked about claims and what
7:04
do they mean? And I got to tell you, that's
7:05
the ultimate copy/paste answer. I've answered the question for
7:10
ya. Just check out my book.
7:12
Yeah, well I'm not in your face but that's yeah, it's 22 cents
7:17
for copy. That gets sold.
7:20
The book is Free by the way. All right.
7:21
Download you can download it from for Microsoft.
7:24
Still today, a PDF, I'll find the link and I'll put in our
7:27
show notes so people can check it out.
7:29
By discrete the 2009 book was a success in 2011 we wrote another
7:35
edition of the same book which we creatively called Same title
7:40
second edition. And it was double the size.
7:45
And in fact, that was the Epiphany for what eventually
7:47
became zero. So interested in the origin
7:51
stories but we're here at the conference and so much is being
7:54
announced, and there's so much change going on so much
7:57
investment happening in the platform.
7:59
What are some of the, the key announcements that came out in
8:03
the conference this week that you guys are excited about that,
8:06
you want people to know about. I'll tell you, maybe the higher
8:11
level of the like the product strategy that we're following
8:15
and maybe she you can go deeper into this the specific
8:19
capabilities but the biggest announcement that we made is
8:23
that we we decided to tackle the market with specialized to
8:28
specialized offerings. And so one is the one that we
8:32
call the OCTA, Workforce, identity, cloud, and the other
8:36
one is, we're now calling the OCTA customer Entity Cloud,
8:39
which is essentially powered by the technology that we build are
8:43
all zero. And so we have these two things,
8:47
which solve the same underlying problem, which is figuring out,
8:52
who is a user and who isn't. But in a way that it's tailored
8:57
to different, use cases to different buyers to different
9:00
scenarios and they are, we are focused on solving those really,
9:06
really well. So that's kind of like the big
9:08
bigger than Announcement because there's like, there's like a
9:13
temptation to say, well, its identity.
9:15
Its authentication is the same thing.
9:17
For this have one thing that does, it does everything.
9:21
And it's like saying, you know, we need a car, you need Wheels,
9:26
it needs engines in its steering wheels and headlights.
9:30
But, you know, this minivans, and SUVs and sports cards and
9:34
Formula 1 racing cars, they all have wheels.
9:38
But they all have From purposes, and they've been sold to
9:40
different people. So he is, is the same.
9:43
The same concept. So, shiv, same question to you?
9:46
Yes. So I think going deeper into the
9:49
customer identity announcements. I think some are obvious that
9:54
that I think your listeners and even, you will have been
9:56
following for the last few months.
9:58
So we announced support Global support for passkeys, which will
10:02
come in Q2 of 2023. I think this, you know, again,
10:06
advances over story of providing a password this experience.
10:09
So I think that's really big and impacts all of us as consumers
10:13
at the end of the day. We're also trying to solve for
10:17
authentication and highly regulated Industries, so think
10:20
of utilities Healthcare financial services.
10:25
And so we announced support for financial grade identity, which
10:29
is a suite of features and products that are going to be
10:34
released starting next next year, beginning of Q2 of Next
10:39
year and is essentially supporting a whole bunch of
10:42
protocols that allows companies that operate in highly regulated
10:46
Industries to essentially work with our products because is the
10:50
extra layers of security and and regulations that they have to
10:54
adhere to. So that's like a big thing we
10:59
and you know, it wouldn't be an identity conference or identity
11:02
announcement if it didn't include security, right.
11:05
So security is a big Focus throughout our stack, but
11:09
Perfectly. And now we announced the sick,
11:11
the availability of security Center.
11:14
The idea is basically in a lot of our customers sellers.
11:17
It's like, you know, I love your products, so easy to use, so
11:21
easy to get started. But like, how is my identity
11:26
infrastructure doing it, vis-à-vis security.
11:29
And of course, you know initially said, hey you can, you
11:32
can stream this information, whatever set, cops tool you're
11:36
using, you know, whether its data dogs, plunk, But a lot of
11:40
them are like can we just log in to your dashboard and see what's
11:44
going on with our implementation?
11:45
And So It Started from that idea, that, that you can have a
11:50
One Stop Shop from an identity perspective, and you can get all
11:54
the information that you, that you need.
11:56
So that's another big announcement, that security
11:58
Center. I saw yesterday in the
12:00
presentation anyway, that you were kind of leading.
12:03
And I gotta tell you, I'm a stickler for, like, little
12:05
details, a little flourishes. And for those who haven't seen
12:08
it, I would This is going to tell you how much of a nerd.
12:10
I am just the way the chart dynamically updates and has like
12:14
this subtle shift to the left over time.
12:17
I mean, just chefs kiss, like, that design is fantastic.
12:21
I would encourage people to go check it out.
12:22
I'm sure there's videos out there and stuff like that, but I
12:24
did sort of an heiress like I noticed the little details on
12:26
the design side of things. I was like, oh yeah, this is
12:28
like, if I were going to design something like that's the way I
12:30
would watch book, it's really well done.
12:32
So congratulation, thank you. Thank you.
12:34
So to really understand customer identity Cloud.
12:37
I think you have to go back to Canada or In story of auth0.
12:42
We'd love to get that as Jeff mentioned we've had Andres
12:45
Aguilar on the podcast, we've have Vittorio some kind of old
12:49
school ah zero people but you honey oh since we have you here
12:53
maybe you can kind of give us some of the history that made
12:57
all zero and leading into now being part of okhta customer,
13:02
identity Cloud. Yeah, sure.
13:04
Well, I mentioned the book and I, we talked about the book, the
13:06
second edition of the book, The Second Edition came I'm in 2011,
13:11
and as I mentioned, was double the size of the original one.
13:16
And so I kept, you know, I thought we can keep writing
13:21
about these and hoping people will find the book, it's freeze,
13:25
a PDF, read the book, and the sandable copy paste, the code in
13:29
the book into their own code, or we can just solve the problem.
13:34
And so, I applied for a job inside myself to do this.
13:39
To do what eventually became serum and naturally I did not
13:44
get the job which was probably one of the best gifts.
13:48
That Microsoft gave me among many others.
13:51
I'm really grateful to Microsoft in many, many ways but in 2012
13:57
my wife in her Infinite Wisdom. She said like well you're gonna
14:02
die one day regretting not doing this and it's worse to regret
14:08
something that And doing something and you know, if it
14:11
doesn't work right and fail, all right, try this.
14:13
You try. And so she she really gave me
14:17
the final push to to leave Microsoft, which was really
14:22
great for me. It was I was really happy there.
14:25
And in December of 2012, I gathered the last bit of
14:30
Courage, I resigned after 13 years at Microsoft and I started
14:35
at zero with Matthias, you know, one of the other authors I
14:40
couldn't afford Victoria so you know we couldn't convince him to
14:44
join right away, but that will take another couple of years but
14:47
we did it as well. And so we started the company
14:51
with the with the goal of essentially saying, let's all
14:55
the list of scenarios that you read in the book.
14:58
Let's have them as just like things that you we shape out of
15:01
the box. And so the in, in March of 2013,
15:09
we Got our first customer, which I was in charge of sales at that
15:13
time Matias was building stuff and I was like, you're in charge
15:16
of everything, right? And so, that's how we split the
15:20
our responsibilities. And I had this that time, I, we
15:26
had this like chatbot on the website and everybody who joined
15:30
their, I would reply instantaneously.
15:32
And, and, you know, I knew a few things about identity, so I
15:36
could provide like this great support and perspectives.
15:40
Everybody was very happy with free Consulting and this guy
15:44
calls me on Skype and you say I want to know how it works and we
15:48
need a Lil Bit of pair programming and over Skype and
15:53
at the end of that he say like I want to pay for this how much
15:57
and have no clue how much you charge him and say well $50 and
16:03
you say oh yeah that's too much. I'm fine. $50 $50 per month per
16:08
month. It's Rick / - okay This is
16:10
scription business that there's the foresight.
16:12
Yeah, okay. Good.
16:13
Yeah. So we negotiated a little bit
16:16
and we ended up in twenty seven dollars per month.
16:20
Don't ask me how we ended up on that number, but we have another
16:24
number, and I was so happy and I was ecstatic, you know, that, a
16:27
couple months later, we were already had a paying customer
16:31
and my wife comes and see what happened to say.
16:33
Well, we sold our first deal. Either, we have a customer
16:36
paying customer and she asked How much?
16:41
How much? Yeah, and I said $27 per month
16:45
and she said you're going to need a lot of those and she wore
16:52
gentle pushing. Yes, yes, he keeps me.
16:56
You know, accountable. But anyway that was the start
17:00
and a couple months later we just to complete the story we
17:07
you know, also somewhat serendipitously.
17:10
A friend of mine was working in a big company.
17:13
He learned about what we're doing said, oh yeah, this is
17:16
actually exactly what we need here.
17:19
And so we that became our very first Enterprise deal and that
17:23
was like hundreds of dollars hundreds of thousands of
17:26
dollars. Sorry.
17:28
And so we had like the two data points, you know, the developer
17:31
working on, you know on his own pay-as-you-go you know credit
17:36
card all the way to Enterprise SC.
17:40
So security procurement on the other side of the spectrum.
17:46
And by, then we knew that we had something real, you know, like
17:50
we proved one point is appointed, anecdote, two data
17:54
points is aligned and you already have like a function
17:58
there and then we decided to go all-in and to grow the company.
18:03
And investors, get investors, we bootstrapped the company for one
18:08
year, we go. Investors, we hired Victoria.
18:12
We had other people to help us, you know, build what eventually
18:16
became 0 0. So cool.
18:19
And now you're part of okhta, I guess.
18:21
Tell me. How's that been going?
18:22
It's been a couple of years now, I believe anything that people
18:26
out there, you know, can take away his fans, kind of like
18:28
thinking about okay. Well, how has it actually been
18:30
working? Like is that it's turned the
18:32
customary, any Cloud, what our lessons learned or are things
18:35
like that you'd want to share Well, our journey was up to
18:39
actually has a very long story because, you know, in that year,
18:43
in 2013, about a half year in between the two deals.
18:48
The I got this call from random person that I didn't know, Todd
18:53
McKinnon and he introduced himself and say I'm tired, I'm
18:56
founder of okhta, I really like what you're doing and I mean,
19:01
looking at the website and the content and you should be
19:06
working with us. And I say, yeah, well that's
19:09
very flattering. But you know, we just started, I
19:12
have one customer or one-and-a-half customers and so
19:17
we, you know, I declined even the consideration but we
19:23
remained in contact over here, is over 10 years and then we
19:27
became friends and you know, we admired each other and we did we
19:34
solve the same problem, but for different people.
19:37
For different audiences in different ways and naturally,
19:42
over 18 years that perspective on the market state.
19:49
But what what what didn't change from the very beginning, is that
19:54
we had the same aspiration of what to build.
19:57
And so, you know, you heard taught yesterday say, you know,
20:01
what was, what was? I always confused, like, the two
20:06
visions because they are almost The same, you know, for us it
20:08
was secure access for everyone and in Octa is like provide
20:14
access for everyone to safely. Use any technology.
20:18
Yeah, they're so they're exactly the same.
20:20
And so coming together was really an opportunity of
20:25
realizing that future faster. Because, you know, if we had
20:29
gone, our separate ways for five years longer, 10 years longer,
20:35
we would have been like the true Nemesis like equal.
20:40
But now, we are an opportunity where we can combine forces, and
20:43
solve all these problems way, faster than on our own and
20:48
someone on the outside. Kind of looking in.
20:49
When this was happening, it struck me, is how complementary
20:53
the two organizations were I think at that time, you know,
20:56
OCTA was kind of known as the workforce.
20:58
Identity company and off, Sarah was very developer Focus, which
21:02
wind itself very well to the customer at any side.
21:05
Yep. And when the news broke, it was
21:06
like, well, yeah, no duh. But the totally makes sense,
21:09
like, why not do that? So it was, it was interesting
21:12
and to t'pol to follow the journey, and I've had
21:15
conversations with folks on both sides of this point.
21:17
Kind of helps us kind of put that into context.
21:18
So, yeah, it's been, it's been interesting even just from
21:22
outside. I'm sure there's great stories.
21:23
And inside, we won't get anybody in trouble or try to put in a
21:26
comfortable spots, but just as a cat as an observer From the
21:28
outside in space. It was just like, yeah.
21:31
And like, like I said, no duh. Well, he wasn't, he wasn't
21:36
unusual acquisition to because, you know, you might think.
21:40
Oh, well, it's a big company, acquiring a small company, but
21:44
we were not that small by then. And so, we're not the same
21:47
people start up, octo was 3,000 people.
21:51
When the acquisition happened, I don't see, there was a thousand
21:53
people and so, is it come on? Kind of like, you know, similar
21:58
Of course, we were like a couple of years behind were not a
22:01
public company, Revenue was smaller, obviously, but some of
22:07
the challenges is like how it's a big maneuver, you know.
22:10
It's not like a small thing with lot of people with a lot of
22:14
customers and and because we have customers that are were
22:20
using alt 04 Workforce and doctor had customers using their
22:25
technology for customer identity.
22:28
So, It's like these gray areas and you can make it work.
22:31
You know, you guys are experiencing this, it's
22:34
software. If you, like put enough effort
22:37
on it, you can make it do, whatever.
22:39
It doesn't mean that it's the right technology for The Right,
22:42
Use case, or the optimized use case.
22:45
And so, part of what we're going through in this 18 months.
22:49
It's like, figuring out our strengths, and our capabilities,
22:53
or where our technology compliments and we can connect
22:57
the dots. And yes over time we will there
23:01
will be a journey of of not Reinventing wheels and don't
23:06
need to be Reinventing. And so like an example that I
23:09
always use is today, we don't pay Amazon 04 or customer
23:14
identity and Workforce identity. There's one bill, you know, it's
23:18
OCTA and that gives us this economies of scale as we consume
23:22
way more and so we have a much bigger bill with a with Amazon
23:27
but it's one bill That is more efficient than having two
23:30
different bills. So just an update on how the
23:34
Acquisitions going. I mean, is it going as well as
23:38
you would expect? I mean everything we talked
23:39
about so far the sound a very positive would and Shiva, you
23:44
know, question to you as well. How is that acquisition going?
23:49
Yeah, so I can start, I think the, you know, one of the the
23:54
things that are going really, really well, honestly is from
23:58
the product team and the product and Technology strategy that we
24:02
have, we've sort of kept it intact.
24:04
Really, we've made no changes to the team or integrated the team.
24:08
So why is that important or relevant?
24:10
It really gives us the opportunity to continue to serve
24:13
the customers that we want to reserve.
24:15
It gives you a to accelerate some of the things we want to
24:18
accelerate. And it really allows us to
24:21
enhance the reach in some of the markets that we wanted to get
24:25
to. Like one example is we were
24:27
going to vote, we were gonna build solving, authorization is
24:33
highly regulated Industries but probably would have taken baby
24:37
steps to to get there. But now being part of okhta with
24:41
a global company, no Global sales force, we're kind of
24:44
accelerated because because those those regulated Industries
24:49
The customers are OCTA customers today so kind of accelerates
24:53
some of the market and the product needs that we had to do.
24:58
And so, so like I think those are those are some really
25:02
positive things and then the other area that I wanted to also
25:05
add in gave us this is now, we're in a place where thinking
25:08
about what are the things we need to interrupt together like
25:11
what should be working? Well, Across both clouds.
25:15
And so, I think you will see over the next few years.
25:18
Some really exciting things that one very simple example is OCTA,
25:21
has this workflows had used to have this halves, this workflows
25:25
product. The customer is love and we can
25:29
easily connect you to the customer identity cloud.
25:32
And now, customers get the benefit of two products that
25:34
they, they love using. So so yeah, I've been in the
25:39
customer, I am space for 20 years.
25:43
I've always Don't like the authentication side was well
25:47
solved. I felt like the identity
25:49
management side of consumer, kind of went back to the
25:52
customer, to do a lot of custom developed applications.
25:55
Like how do you want to let people register?
25:57
If you've got a delegated Administration kind of scenario.
26:01
Now, the workflows you can let the customer solve that all
26:04
within a low code no code environment, exactly exist.
26:08
So I think so, I think there's some there is a lot there
26:13
including In security and risk signals, obviously.
26:16
And I, and if you had watched the, the keynote yesterday, we
26:20
think we have something unique that we can do for SAS Builders,
26:23
or SAS application, Builders because we kind of, we now
26:27
represent both sides of the equation.
26:29
So you can really accelerate a lot of capabilities and
26:33
standards. And so, we're just, we're just
26:36
getting started with that. I'm just incredibly excited
26:40
about what we can do in the future.
26:42
Yeah, very cool also. Ecology like passkeys and you
26:46
know, you announce Fastpass here at the conference, seems to me
26:51
that that's not for customer or workforces for whatever wherever
26:55
you want to use those things, right?
26:56
So yes, yeah, I think if you look at like, passkeys, it
27:03
really should work in any scenario across devices, but
27:06
there is one difference, which is in a consumer use case you,
27:10
you know, you really want this ubiquitous access across across
27:13
all devices, across different browsers in a Workforce
27:17
scenario, similar. However, I think identity admins
27:22
or scissors or shears, they mow and I have a little more control
27:26
and policies overpass key. So I think there is a subtle
27:29
difference in the in how we implement it, but both both
27:33
clouds will be supporting it. And again, it really takes one
27:37
of the surface areas for a tax, which is passwords away, which
27:43
which is, which is exciting. So, what's next in the customer
27:46
identity space? I mean you guys have been doing
27:49
this for a while. What do you see coming up as
27:52
okay? Pass keys.
27:53
Are great, what's next? Now we're going to make things
27:55
easier. Better more secure, right?
27:58
Everything that goes along with that.
28:00
Yeah, so so I think the there are were watching a few Trends
28:06
and I'll just talk about to at one.
28:09
I'm more excited about, I think it has more legs than the other.
28:12
But the first one is is, you know, there is this
28:16
decentralized technologies that are building in.
28:18
So you hear a lot of noise and and excitement depending on who
28:21
you ask about web 3. So I think at the very least we
28:27
want to be a provider that Bridges, the Two Worlds, you
28:29
know, because I I think we take a position of it's all web to,
28:32
it's all web or web three. Frankly, the the thing we are
28:36
here to solve for is, were connecting so many different
28:39
Technologies and, and products. So it doesn't matter if it's
28:43
web-one web to web three, we want our stack, our Technologies
28:47
work across also bridging. Those will be, we're starting to
28:51
we've already started doing some of this lot of experiments.
28:54
So you can do like sign in with the theorem if you want it.
28:58
So that's one. The second one is, I think There
29:00
is still a bunch of identity data That's essential in
29:03
physical formats and in silos. So we think that will be like
29:08
the next wave. You know, think of your driver's
29:11
license, your passport, your birth certificate insurance
29:14
cards. There's so much data that still
29:16
in a physical format for a good reason.
29:18
By the way, if we can bring that online and and use verifiable
29:24
credentials. Now that we all have devices
29:26
with Biometrics, I think that would be be a really amazing and
29:31
frankly removes friction from our daily lives.
29:34
Imagine not having to remove your insurance card every time
29:37
you go to the doctor. Yeah I'm noticing some of that
29:41
Improvement coming in in small waves.
29:44
You know. I think example of it.
29:45
I've most recently had is the TSA going in to get through an
29:48
airport. Now, you don't actually have to
29:50
show your badge. I mean, your, your your ticket,
29:54
they're just looking at your ID and they've actually last summer
29:56
when to through TSA, I didn't you have to show my ID.
30:00
You had a camera set up and did a biometric of my face.
30:03
Now, I had to approve that from a privacy standpoint, yes, but
30:07
they were able to take my my facial Biometrics and map that
30:12
back that I had to take it for that day.
30:14
And they let me write through, I think it's very smartly, quite
30:16
clear, is doing, for example, and sometimes up for that, that
30:19
idea of a digital verified credential or identity is a big
30:22
part. I think, I believe of the
30:24
future. What I'm concerned about is the
30:29
the platform Is playing along with that, you've got Android,
30:33
you've got Apple historically, they don't really work well
30:37
together and trying to come up with something that works ends
30:40
up having half measures on one or the other.
30:43
So I'm you know, I'm excited about sort of the collaboration
30:45
that's going on Fido for example, where everyone's on
30:47
board correct. Love to see a similar kind of
30:50
concept where you know I'm a first class citizen if I have a
30:54
iPhone because I have, you know, X capability versus an Android
30:58
phone, which in the world. Far more than Apple users, come
31:02
down for that. And I think is that something
31:04
that concerns you as well? Or am I thinking about it?
31:06
Will happen. No, we it's less of a concern.
31:11
I think this is exactly why I act exists actually, because we
31:16
actually don't care what platform or stack your on.
31:20
We want to build a neutral and independent, a cloud that
31:25
essentially Works across all platforms and so you bring up a
31:28
very good point, okay? 84, all these Innovations are on
31:31
the iPhone. It works.
31:32
Well, if you're in the iPhone or apple ecosystem, what happens if
31:37
somebody in your family member is on Android?
31:39
And now they feel left out. So we want to make sure our
31:42
technology Works across platforms.
31:44
And I think that's exactly the reason why why OCTA is the
31:48
company to go solve a problem like this.
31:50
Because we care about all of these scenarios and we're not
31:54
preferential to one platform or another and we recognize that
31:59
these platforms Their own reasons to do, whatever they're
32:02
doing, which is fine, whatever choices they make.
32:07
And, you know, we're big proponents of Standards bodies
32:10
where we can advance for the entire industry and they'll be
32:13
cases where, if it's not moving as fast.
32:15
Well, we will go build some initial standards and and, and
32:19
and try to get adoption. So I think so.
32:24
So I think our technology actually becomes even more
32:26
relevant and even more powerful in a world where you have so
32:30
much. Each platform fragmentation.
32:32
We see this in our work lives, by the way, every day.
32:35
And so, when this shifts the consumer, same thing, will we
32:40
will try to solve it across platforms.
32:42
So I'm going to, we're going to wrap, start to wrap things up
32:45
because Magic Johnson is about to go on stage and I think we
32:47
all want to go see. We all want to see that
32:49
Mackenzie in the corner. She's a silent participant here.
32:51
She's got a thumb like Hirsch and I think yeah.
32:53
But we're going to end on a lighter note.
32:54
And you know the I'll pose this question to shift first and
32:57
we'll kind of go around the room that way if you It have any
33:02
person? Living living person for dinner.
33:05
Who would it be? Yeah.
33:07
So I'm a big Manchester United fan, which is an English
33:11
football and so sore. Eyes Alex Ferguson, who was a
33:14
coach for about 20, 24 years there, you know, I became a fan
33:22
since since he was a coach and so it would I would just love to
33:25
have a evening with him. I think there's a ton I could
33:28
learn from the years that He spent coaching these amazing
33:32
players and one, you know, 19 different trophies.
33:36
Is there a my first question that you would want to ask.
33:39
I'm just like it's like how do you manage all these egos?
33:44
Yeah you had me all about yourself.
33:47
Yeah. Well, you know in the 10 years
33:50
that we've been building or zero and now in my role here at OCTA,
33:55
I found another passion. You know, of Mines.
33:58
I'm an engineer, of course, I loved it.
34:00
Reggie and all of that stuff, but eventually I learned that my
34:04
product in building the company was actually building teams as
34:07
well. So very similar to what she was.
34:10
Describing actually, not not too long ago.
34:13
I read a biography of world leader that I admired a lot and
34:20
I liked her being in a very difficult role and I could see
34:25
with all, of course, the differences in scale and
34:27
complexity. I could see a lot of Rarities of
34:30
that and became a geek of leadership and and guiding
34:35
people into greatness. And so he's Angela Merkel.
34:40
I think she's a world-class leader and humble, and, you
34:45
know, probably no joke, leading, one of the biggest economies in
34:50
the world in a complicated world.
34:51
And so I would love to have dinner with her.
34:55
Yeah. No kidding.
34:55
It was a very stable environment with firm charge Jim.
34:59
How about yourself who you going to have over to get an answer,
35:01
kind of like shivs. So it's a professional athlete
35:03
and I thought about it from the standpoint of somebody who I
35:08
could learn from right, somebody who I'm kind of Awestruck by but
35:11
also somebody I could potentially influence and I
35:14
chose Aaron judge from the New York Yankees.
35:16
I'm big, New York Yankees fan. The guy had a phenomenal season
35:20
and it was his quote, unquote walk here, which means that he's
35:25
now a free agent and can sign with any team for as much money
35:28
as they're willing to offer. But I'd like to try to influence
35:32
them to do is stay with the New York Yankees as long as they're
35:35
going to give him the money. So yeah, that's that's my
35:38
answer. All right.
35:39
Well, you guys Good answers. My name is extremely specific.
35:43
I want to have dinner with George r.r., Martin author of
35:46
Game of Thrones and really asking about season 8.
35:50
Because I know that I look, I love all things Game of Thrones,
35:53
I thought it was. I'll I enjoyed it for what it
35:55
was to me. The series ended.
35:59
When Aria kills the night king. Sorry spoiler.
36:01
Right? It's probably for throughout
36:03
their and the next couple of episodes, were sort of very
36:06
quickly, trying to tie it up and I want to know, sort of what was
36:09
the real. Finding here.
36:10
Like, what is he thinking about? Because he is still writing the
36:12
book years later. Yeah, we haven't seen it.
36:14
So I'm curious just from a I want to close the loop on that
36:17
one. So you guys give good answers?
36:19
I got the stupid answer but that's what I want to have.
36:21
No no I think that's good answer to and you know it's probably
36:24
like HBO said. All right we need to wrap this
36:26
thing up morsi's this it. Yeah absolutely speaking to wrap
36:30
things up, let's go ahead and do that now.
36:32
Thank you guys so much for being part of this.
36:34
I know you guys are super busy, you have presenting and you got
36:37
ahold of a lot of Demands on our time.
36:38
So we definitely appreciate. Taking this step for us.
36:40
And shout out to Mackenzie sitting across here for helping
36:42
coordinate everything. And so the entire octave team,
36:45
right, being able to help us out and support us to this, as well
36:47
as our SM, we are going to go ahead and leave it.
36:50
Go talk to Magic Johnson, you can find us on the web.
36:53
I'd any of the center.com or on Twitter at idea.
36:55
See podcast and thanks everyone for listening and we'll talk
36:58
with you all in the next one. Thanks for listening to the
37:03
identity at the center podcast. If you like what you heard,
37:06
don't forget to subscribe and visit us on the web and
37:09
identity. The epicenter.com.