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Transcript

The Late Debate | 7 May · The Late Debate

0:01
Speaker 1: Gentleman, welcome to the Late Debase. Thanks for joining us.
0:08
Speaker 1: It's great to have your company. I'm James MacPerson with
0:10
Speaker 1: Dnika to Georgio and Joe Hildebrand.
0:12
Speaker 2: How are you, Cuning, I'm fantastic. How are you? I
0:14
Speaker 2: feel much safer tonight, certainly ready.
0:17
Speaker 1: It's certainly been a big evening of news.
0:19
Speaker 3: Danneka, gosh, it has been and I look forward to
0:21
Speaker 3: breaking it down. But well, we knew it would happened.
0:24
Speaker 3: But we've been saying this for months now, and here
0:27
Speaker 3: we are this Thursday evening.
0:29
Speaker 1: Here we are, and you're quite right. We'll get into
0:31
Speaker 1: all the details in just a moment. His what's coming
0:33
Speaker 1: up tonight? A foreign sex offender will get to remain
0:36
Speaker 1: in Australia because authorities say he'd struggle to survive in
0:39
Speaker 1: Africa without the NDS. Malcolm Turnbull defends a Muslim artist
0:44
Speaker 1: who is dumped from a major art exhibition for appearing
0:47
Speaker 1: to glorify a terrorist leader, the claim he denies, and
0:51
Speaker 1: rock Legend Sting says he won't be leaving any of
0:53
Speaker 1: his multimillion dollar fortune to his six children, So does
0:56
Speaker 1: that make him a good parent or should should his
0:59
Speaker 1: kids be furious. We'll get to all of that shortly,
1:02
Speaker 1: but first, as you would be aware, Australian Federal Police
1:04
Speaker 1: announced tonight they'll charge three ISIS linked women with a
1:08
Speaker 1: number of crimes related to slavery and membership of a
1:11
Speaker 1: terrorist organization. The women landed in Australia earlier this evening,
1:16
Speaker 1: his AFP Assistant Commissioner Stephen Nutt.
1:18
Speaker 4: Earlier tonight tonight, the Victorian Joint Counter Terrorism Team have
1:23
Speaker 4: arrested two women at Melbourne International Airport. It is expected
1:29
Speaker 4: a fifty three year old woman will be charged tonight
1:32
Speaker 4: or tomorrow with the following four Commonwealth offenses Crimes against humanity, enslavement,
1:41
Speaker 4: crimes against humanity, Possess a slave, crimes against humanity, Use
1:48
Speaker 4: a slave, Crimes against humanity, engage in slave trading. These
1:55
Speaker 4: offenses each carry a maximum penalty of twenty five years imprisonment.
2:01
Speaker 4: A thirty one year old woman will also expect to
2:04
Speaker 4: be charged tonight or tomorrow with the following two Commonwealth
2:08
Speaker 4: offenses Crimes against humanity, enslavement, crimes against humanity, use a slave.
2:16
Speaker 4: Both offenses carry a maximum penalty of twenty five years imprisonment.
2:23
Speaker 4: The women will appear before a Victorian court once they
2:26
Speaker 4: have been charged. At Sydney International Airport, the New South
2:32
Speaker 4: Wales Joint counter Terrorism Team arrested a thirty two year
2:35
Speaker 4: old woman who is expected to be charged tonight or
2:39
Speaker 4: tomorrow with the following two Commonwealth defenses entering or remaining
2:45
Speaker 4: in a declared area and being a member of a
2:49
Speaker 4: terrorist organization. Both offenses carry a maximum penalty of ten
2:55
Speaker 4: years imprisonment.
2:57
Speaker 1: But there's more questions than answers tonight. For instance, why
3:00
Speaker 1: didn't the government issue temporary exclusion orders against these women?
3:04
Speaker 1: Will any more people be charged with offenses? Is Australia
3:07
Speaker 1: safer now that these women and their children are in
3:09
Speaker 1: Australia or are we less safe now? No one knows
3:12
Speaker 1: the answer to those questions. Because the AFP Deputy Commission
3:16
Speaker 1: afronted the media alone. No one from the government was
3:19
Speaker 1: anywhere to be seen tonight.
3:20
Speaker 2: Joe, Yeah, it's an interesting one.
3:22
Speaker 5: My feeling in my guess when I first found out
3:27
Speaker 5: that they were going to be arrested but hadn't been
3:29
Speaker 5: issued with the temporary exclusion order, is that you can
3:32
Speaker 5: be arrested and charged and indeed prosecuted and imprisoned for
3:37
Speaker 5: something that is against the law without necessarily being alive
3:41
Speaker 5: risk to the community. So in the case of the
3:43
Speaker 5: two Melbourne women, obviously they are accused of some pretty
3:49
Speaker 5: horrendous things, but that is something that presumably could only
3:53
Speaker 5: happen if the allegations are proven in relation in their
4:00
Speaker 5: in the context of them being in Syria and working
4:03
Speaker 5: with or under Islamic state, and so that sort of offense
4:08
Speaker 5: wouldn't make them a risk in Australia, I don't think.
4:11
Speaker 5: I know there are some people campaigning in this area,
4:14
Speaker 5: but we don't have a.
4:15
Speaker 2: Huge slavery industry in Australia.
4:17
Speaker 5: And then the other one, of course, is just by
4:20
Speaker 5: the very fact of this woman going to Syria, which
4:23
Speaker 5: was a prescribed terrorist zone, she has broken the law
4:27
Speaker 5: and she can be and should be charged and prosecuted
4:31
Speaker 5: for that, and he found guilty in prison for that
4:34
Speaker 5: without that necessarily making her be deemed to be a
4:38
Speaker 5: live risk to the safety of the country. And so
4:41
Speaker 5: we know that there was only one person who was
4:44
Speaker 5: deemed by Azio and the AFP to be a live
4:49
Speaker 5: risk and they were issued with the temporary exclusion order,
4:52
Speaker 5: and that is the thing, and I don't want them
4:55
Speaker 5: in the country any more than anyone else does.
4:58
Speaker 2: But amid all.
4:59
Speaker 5: The people who have said this is terrible, they shouldn't
5:01
Speaker 5: be here, I still haven't heard anyone come up with
5:05
Speaker 5: a mechanism, illegal mechanism that would actually allow that they
5:08
Speaker 5: are Australian citizens. They can come home, they can be
5:12
Speaker 5: arrested for any laws that they've broken, and they should
5:14
Speaker 5: be and charged with any offenses they've committed. But you know,
5:18
Speaker 5: the Minister can't just sort of make up security risk
5:21
Speaker 5: assessments on his own. He has to follow the advice
5:23
Speaker 5: of the AFP and other security agencies. He's done that.
5:27
Speaker 5: He can only delay. Even under the temporary exclusion order
5:31
Speaker 5: the TEA, he can only delay for two years. So
5:34
Speaker 5: she's coming back anyway. I when we don't like it,
5:38
Speaker 5: but I think we have to lump it.
5:40
Speaker 1: We're just seeing images there, Danika from I believe that's
5:42
Speaker 1: Melbourne Airport with the arrival and they head a security
5:46
Speaker 1: team of about twenty men dressed in black meeting these
5:50
Speaker 1: arrivals at the airport.
5:52
Speaker 3: Well, when I first saw those images tonight, I felt
5:56
Speaker 3: like that was a deliberate show of force. When you've
6:00
Speaker 3: got twenty men all dressed in black, all looking very serious.
6:05
Speaker 3: That the optics, to me, are what stood out the most.
6:09
Speaker 3: There was reportedly a scuffle between this group and journalists
6:14
Speaker 3: that were there. Journalists, they're just trying to do their
6:16
Speaker 3: jobs and you would have heard some of the journalists
6:18
Speaker 3: asking legitimate questions, one of which was how can we
6:23
Speaker 3: trust you? Now? That is still a question that we
6:26
Speaker 3: don't have answered tonight. We knew that this would happen,
6:29
Speaker 3: despite repeated government denials that they were one step away
6:32
Speaker 3: from this, that they were at arm's length, But the
6:34
Speaker 3: reality is that these women were still issued with passports. Now,
6:38
Speaker 3: I understand your point, Joe, in what you're saying, but
6:43
Speaker 3: as far as I'm concerned, when you leave this country
6:46
Speaker 3: betray our values to go and join a death cult,
6:51
Speaker 3: you automatically should be disqualified from ever ever being able
6:55
Speaker 3: to come back. Now, there should have been temporary exclusion
6:58
Speaker 3: visas in place from the very beginning, or there is
7:02
Speaker 3: in the Passport Act there is a section that a
7:05
Speaker 3: passport can be denied if someone might prejudice the security
7:08
Speaker 3: of Australia. Now, notwithstanding that charges have been laid, but
7:12
Speaker 3: I would argue that these women do meet the threshold
7:16
Speaker 3: based on the very fact that ISIS is a prescribed
7:20
Speaker 3: terrorist group in this country. Now, we don't know what
7:22
Speaker 3: they have been exposed to, We don't know what their
7:24
Speaker 3: children have been exposed to. You might recall a couple
7:27
Speaker 3: of years ago, the former ISIS fighter Karlie Sharuf took
7:30
Speaker 3: a photo of his own son holding up a severed head.
7:34
Speaker 3: And they're going to be coming back into this country.
7:36
Speaker 3: They say, oh, you know, they're going to be going
7:38
Speaker 3: through reintegration deradicalization programs. Well, I would like to know
7:43
Speaker 3: what exactly that means. How can we be sure that
7:46
Speaker 3: it's going to be successful and do deradicalization programs work?
7:51
Speaker 3: And this I was just going to point out. The
7:53
Speaker 3: other concern I have is we are living in unprecedented
7:57
Speaker 3: times right now in Australia where our social fabric has
8:00
Speaker 3: already been split at the seams months after the Bondai massacre.
8:05
Speaker 3: And now here we are, and here we are, and
8:08
Speaker 3: it is actually a disgusting moment for our country. Seeing
8:12
Speaker 3: that plane arrive tonight, seeing the vision is absolutely appalling
8:16
Speaker 3: to me.
8:16
Speaker 1: Okay, so you've raised a lot of really great questions.
8:19
Speaker 1: Let's bring in Professor Greg Barton. He's from Deacon University,
8:22
Speaker 1: where he's the Global Islamic Politics chair. Greg. Thanks for
8:25
Speaker 1: joining us. I guess we might as well start off
8:28
Speaker 1: by asking your thoughts on the events of tonight. What
8:31
Speaker 1: we've seen so far.
8:33
Speaker 6: Well, I think none of us wanted to see this happening.
8:36
Speaker 6: We'd rather live in a world where there was no
8:38
Speaker 6: terrorism and there are no difficult questions. But I mean
8:41
Speaker 6: this is the reality. There are difficult questions. I think
8:43
Speaker 6: Joe's nailed it in terms of the legal situation we face.
8:48
Speaker 6: I'm glad that these women are facing justice. I'm also
8:50
Speaker 6: glad that their kids are back in Australia where there's
8:52
Speaker 6: a really decent chance of rehabilitating them. I'm glad for
8:56
Speaker 6: them from a humanitarian point of view, but also from
8:58
Speaker 6: the point of view of australianecurity because in an age
9:01
Speaker 6: of social media and globalized recruitment online, these kids could
9:06
Speaker 6: be exploited by a terrorists had they remained even a
9:08
Speaker 6: few more years. And I understand Adanika's point, but let's
9:11
Speaker 6: suppose the mothers had been kept back two more years
9:14
Speaker 6: on an exclusion order and the kids were two years older.
9:17
Speaker 6: You know the risk of them going off and being
9:19
Speaker 6: recruited is that much higher. So I'm not saying this
9:21
Speaker 6: is easy or that this is any thing about this
9:24
Speaker 6: is simple, But I think the lesser of the evils
9:29
Speaker 6: is to get them back here, and the lesser of
9:30
Speaker 6: the risks is involved in processing them in Australia where
9:33
Speaker 6: we have robust systems. Had they remained in Syria, the
9:36
Speaker 6: women probably wouldn't have faced justice and the kids may
9:39
Speaker 6: have ended up being part of the problem in future
9:42
Speaker 6: and being a threat to us because they leaked to Australia.
9:44
Speaker 3: Greg, just on the point that I made earlier. They're
9:46
Speaker 3: going to be involved in reintegration and deradicalization programs. Explain
9:52
Speaker 3: the process to us because a question tonight many will
9:54
Speaker 3: be asking, well, how safe are we right now as Australians,
9:58
Speaker 3: So how confident can and we possibly be in the
10:01
Speaker 3: programs that they're going to be a part of.
10:05
Speaker 6: Well, I think the first thing to Nika is there's
10:06
Speaker 6: no one hundred percent guarantee. This is not without risk,
10:09
Speaker 6: but authorities, including as when a public report say this
10:12
Speaker 6: is the lesser of the risky options. It's good that
10:16
Speaker 6: the larger group has come back to Melbourne because Melbourne
10:19
Speaker 6: has a really good program based on experience again from
10:23
Speaker 6: the operation Pandemics afp Raid involving an old kinda activist.
10:28
Speaker 6: Years ago nine men in Victoria, nine in New South
10:31
Speaker 6: Wales put in prison. Victoria police decided they needed to
10:33
Speaker 6: do something about trying to sort of defuse this problem
10:36
Speaker 6: when these men eventually serve their time and came out
10:38
Speaker 6: of prison, and they've been working for some years with
10:42
Speaker 6: the Board of Email AND's Victoria on a program that's
10:44
Speaker 6: called the Community Integration Support Program. They work with men
10:47
Speaker 6: in prison, they work with their families outside prison, and
10:50
Speaker 6: when the men are living prison, they work across the
10:52
Speaker 6: whole community to listen the risk and to try and
10:56
Speaker 6: turn these people back to normal society away from the
10:59
Speaker 6: sort of dangerous circles that got them to trouble in
11:01
Speaker 6: the first place. This is a bit like any other
11:04
Speaker 6: kind of rehabilitation, drug and alcohol rehabilitation. There's no guarantees.
11:08
Speaker 6: But what we have learned is it's better to attemptor
11:10
Speaker 6: rehabilitation with checks and balances in place, with security wrapped around,
11:14
Speaker 6: than it is to give up and say, you know,
11:16
Speaker 6: we can't do this. It's you know, it's better to
11:19
Speaker 6: try and deal with this problem and they do not
11:21
Speaker 6: even try at all. And of course, you know, in
11:23
Speaker 6: some ways it would have been easier if they just
11:25
Speaker 6: made in Syria, but that would have been a risk
11:27
Speaker 6: to us, and it really wouldn't be solving the problem
11:30
Speaker 6: because you know, Syrian society is less able to deal
11:34
Speaker 6: with this than we are. You know, as I said,
11:36
Speaker 6: I think no one is happy about this happening. No
11:38
Speaker 6: one is happy about the rise of Islamic state and terrorism.
11:40
Speaker 6: I spend twenty five years looking at these groups, but
11:43
Speaker 6: I do think it's worth trying to turn people away
11:46
Speaker 6: from harm because in the longer run, you can do
11:48
Speaker 6: more good and you can better protect society that way.
11:51
Speaker 5: Greg Joe here, thanks so much for joining us this evening.
11:55
Speaker 5: This is actually the second cohort of Isis brides that
11:58
Speaker 5: have returned and been repatriated in Australia. There was another
12:02
Speaker 5: group that came under the Morrison government. What do we
12:06
Speaker 5: know from that first group about the prospects of deradicalization
12:11
Speaker 5: and reintegration into the community. Did we see any recidivism
12:15
Speaker 5: among that cohort? Were their signs that, you know, years
12:19
Speaker 5: after that had happened, that they were still holding extreme views?
12:23
Speaker 6: Do we know it's a good question, Joe. I mean
12:26
Speaker 6: the honest answers. We don't know absolutely because this is
12:28
Speaker 6: not publicized. I think, in fact, there were two cohorts.
12:30
Speaker 6: One came in twenty nineteen, and everything that I've been
12:35
Speaker 6: able to sort of learn on this is that we
12:37
Speaker 6: haven't seen problems. I've been involved with people working on rehabilitation.
12:42
Speaker 6: I trust it when they know when they say they're
12:45
Speaker 6: seeing good results. I've done a lot of work here in Indonesia,
12:49
Speaker 6: and I've met with women in Indonesia who went to Syria,
12:53
Speaker 6: and in the cases of the ones that I've spoken to,
12:56
Speaker 6: I'm encouraged to see that rehabilitation is possible. I don't
13:00
Speaker 6: pretend to know everything what's happened in Australia. It's sort
13:03
Speaker 6: of counterintuitive to think that we can rehabilitate and deradicalize
13:07
Speaker 6: and that surely this is impossible, but actually the evidence
13:09
Speaker 6: suggests we have better success in this area than other
13:12
Speaker 6: forms of criminal recidivism. You know, ordinary people leaving jail
13:16
Speaker 6: don't get the same attention and the same surveillance, and
13:19
Speaker 6: recidiveent narrates tend to be high. Paradoxically for people who
13:23
Speaker 6: get involved in terrorism, you actually have a better prospect
13:26
Speaker 6: of turning them around, perhaps because of what they've seen
13:28
Speaker 6: and experienced, they're not going back.
13:31
Speaker 1: Greg, Greg, you said something earlier that I've heard before
13:33
Speaker 1: and never quite understood. You said that even if they
13:36
Speaker 1: were to remain in Syria, they would still be a
13:38
Speaker 1: risk to us. I think a lot of viewers would
13:40
Speaker 1: be trying to understand how would they be a risk
13:43
Speaker 1: to us if they simply remained over in the Middle East.
13:47
Speaker 6: Well, I think we're becoming more familiar with the term
13:50
Speaker 6: loan actor terrorism, and we have the tragedy of the
13:53
Speaker 6: Bondai terror attack. Two loan actors, father and son. We
13:56
Speaker 6: call them loan actors because they weren't part of a
13:58
Speaker 6: group in Australia so far as we know. But these
14:01
Speaker 6: loan actors are never you know, they're never islands in
14:04
Speaker 6: the sea. They're always part of a social network, often online.
14:08
Speaker 6: The Australian terrorists who went to christ Church and shot
14:11
Speaker 6: people dead in mosques in March twenty nine Asia recall
14:15
Speaker 6: he was live streaming. Because it's very important to these
14:17
Speaker 6: individuals that they're seen as part of a group. So
14:20
Speaker 6: my point is that the internet, social media in particular
14:26
Speaker 6: connects us in a way that we don't need the
14:28
Speaker 6: physical presence for the danger to be there. So a
14:31
Speaker 6: lone actor acting, carring act terror in Australia is very
14:34
Speaker 6: likely inspired directed by somebody, very possibly outside of Australia.
14:39
Speaker 6: We've certainly seen that happen in the past, and I
14:42
Speaker 6: fear that will happen in the future. So unfortunately, just
14:45
Speaker 6: being outside of Australia doesn't you know that being an
14:47
Speaker 6: island nation doesn't keep us completely safe from this sort
14:51
Speaker 6: of evil influence.
14:52
Speaker 1: How are these women regarded by the Australian Islamic community.
14:57
Speaker 1: I mean, we've heard from a lot of people who
14:58
Speaker 1: saying we don't want them here, but I'm curious about
15:01
Speaker 1: how the Islamic community in this country would view them.
15:04
Speaker 1: Are they as reviled among the Islamic community or do
15:07
Speaker 1: they have a different view.
15:09
Speaker 6: I think it's safe to say that, you know, the
15:11
Speaker 6: Muslim community in Australia is like the rest of Australia
15:14
Speaker 6: that it's horrified by terrorism, not least because many people
15:17
Speaker 6: have had their lives touched arydirectly. They've lost family members
15:20
Speaker 6: to terrorists and are disgusted by the evil hypocrisy of
15:25
Speaker 6: groups like Islamic State. You no doubt there's going to
15:28
Speaker 6: be a spread of opinion. I'm sure that there's going
15:32
Speaker 6: to be broad concerned about these children and a genuine
15:35
Speaker 6: good will to try and get behind these children and
15:37
Speaker 6: help them. So if it turns out the case when
15:39
Speaker 6: the mothers face justice they spend years in jail, there'll
15:42
Speaker 6: be others wh will help the kids. You know, my experience,
15:46
Speaker 6: whether it's in Australia or here in Southeast Asia, is
15:49
Speaker 6: that despite physical appearances, the way people dress and presenters
15:55
Speaker 6: being different, you know, people want the same thing for
15:57
Speaker 6: their kids and for their society. The number of people
16:00
Speaker 6: hold to really hardline extreme views are a very small minority.
16:03
Speaker 6: The vast majority of people we meet, you know, people
16:06
Speaker 6: like us. They have the same concerns and they're horrified
16:09
Speaker 6: by the same thing. So I'm sure that's the case
16:11
Speaker 6: across Australian Muslim society as well.
16:14
Speaker 5: And Greg, I guess the ultimate question is, even setting
16:17
Speaker 5: all that aside, did the Australian government actually have any recourse,
16:22
Speaker 5: any choice to actually deny these women who are Australian
16:26
Speaker 5: citizens and their children from coming back to Australia from
16:29
Speaker 5: obtaining passports if they could get in touch with a
16:31
Speaker 5: consul or official and then re entering Australia. And we know,
16:35
Speaker 5: of course the United States, ironically, the Trump administration was
16:39
Speaker 5: telling Australia you better take these people back because they
16:41
Speaker 5: wanted to close the camp that they were being held in.
16:45
Speaker 5: So did we have a choice even if these women
16:49
Speaker 5: are worst case scenario a risk and God willing they're not,
16:52
Speaker 5: did we have any choice but to accept them if
16:54
Speaker 5: indeed they were able to obtain passports and return.
16:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you're touching on the love of the problem, Joe.
17:00
Speaker 6: There was no option. I mean whether we had a
17:02
Speaker 6: liberal government or a labor government. And we've had this
17:05
Speaker 6: in the past, facing the same issue. We face the
17:08
Speaker 6: same bad options. I say bad options. But you know,
17:11
Speaker 6: the flip side of it is that Australia is a
17:13
Speaker 6: robust democracy where we can see that justice is done
17:16
Speaker 6: if people were involved in slavery or face dush justice,
17:19
Speaker 6: and we'll see that kids have a fair shot at rehabilitation.
17:22
Speaker 6: You can't say that if they were left in Syria,
17:24
Speaker 6: and it wouldn't be fair to ask the people of
17:26
Speaker 6: Syria to carry the burden. You know that ultimately we're
17:28
Speaker 6: responsible for. So much as we may not like our
17:31
Speaker 6: responsibility to our citizens, it is fair in a global
17:35
Speaker 6: sense that we take responsibility. Just because somebody gets into
17:38
Speaker 6: criminal activity abroad. Doesn't mean that we want to wash
17:40
Speaker 6: our hands as that somebody else's problem. And for the kids,
17:43
Speaker 6: of course, you know, for our own security point of view,
17:45
Speaker 6: but for a humanitarian concern. We're in position where we
17:49
Speaker 6: can do some good and legally we have no choice anyway.
17:52
Speaker 6: So why don't we embrace the fact that we're doing
17:54
Speaker 6: the hard thing and try to make everyone safer because
17:58
Speaker 6: it's right to do, but also because of the choice.
18:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said thank you, Greg.
18:04
Speaker 3: Just by way of security, So we've got three women
18:07
Speaker 3: that have been arrested, there's obviously still the fourth bride.
18:11
Speaker 3: What does the security arrangement surrounding that fourth woman look
18:16
Speaker 3: like in terms of will she require around the clock security?
18:19
Speaker 3: But how does it work now?
18:22
Speaker 6: Yeah, there'll certainly be a level of a surveillance Steneka,
18:25
Speaker 6: I don't think it's sort of Hollywood style, you know,
18:27
Speaker 6: white van with free shifts of guys sitting in. I
18:30
Speaker 6: think it's more a case of checking in on a
18:33
Speaker 6: daily basis, having people you know, both both police officers
18:37
Speaker 6: and other trained experts visiting with the family, you know,
18:42
Speaker 6: trained to observed warning signs if this woman has not
18:44
Speaker 6: been truthful or if she's changing in a way that's dangerous.
18:48
Speaker 6: There were people there to watch, so I think that's
18:49
Speaker 6: the good thing. I think it's also a good thing
18:51
Speaker 6: that society is taking responsibility so extended families in Sydney
18:55
Speaker 6: and Melbourne and just the broader community of showing a
18:58
Speaker 6: concern to try and help in this case. And that
19:01
Speaker 6: makes a big difference. It's when individuals are alone and
19:04
Speaker 6: no one's watching them that the danger is greatest. And
19:06
Speaker 6: you know, once again, unfortunately that's probably part of the
19:09
Speaker 6: story with the Bondo terror attack. That won't be the
19:12
Speaker 6: case here.
19:12
Speaker 1: There will be people watching. Very good, I should point
19:15
Speaker 1: out in our early discussion about what happened at Bondi
19:18
Speaker 1: those alleged allegations of course, alleged gunman, alleged lone wolf.
19:24
Speaker 1: That'll be sorted out by a court. Greg Barton, really
19:27
Speaker 1: appreciate you joining us today and what's been a very
19:29
Speaker 1: big day. Thanks so much for your insights. Good to
19:32
Speaker 1: be with you. Thanks very much, great, Well there you go,
19:36
Speaker 1: and no doubt this will dominate news tomorrow. In fact,
19:38
Speaker 1: when we look at the papers a little later, this
19:40
Speaker 1: is all over tomorrow's paper.
19:42
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And yeah, we'll see later on how the front
19:45
Speaker 3: pages are covering this big news night. Look, we're going
19:50
Speaker 3: to change pace now, going to completely change it up.
19:55
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a bad thing.
19:56
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a bad thing. Let's move on
19:58
Speaker 3: to the rest of the news so we all know
19:59
Speaker 3: this a Sting, of course, he sung infamously fields of gold,
20:05
Speaker 3: and despite being worth fields of gold himself, he's not
20:09
Speaker 3: going to be sharing that wealth with his six children.
20:13
Speaker 3: Why because he wants them to work for it. Now.
20:16
Speaker 3: Sting has six kids aged between forty nine and thirty.
20:20
Speaker 3: He's sold over one hundred million records and has an
20:23
Speaker 3: estimated net worth of five hundred and fifty million US
20:27
Speaker 3: dollars that's about seven hundred and fifty nine million. But
20:31
Speaker 3: when asked will he leave that multimillion dollar fortune to
20:35
Speaker 3: his own children, he said no.
20:37
Speaker 6: And this is why are you still telling your kids
20:41
Speaker 6: they're not going to get any of them.
20:45
Speaker 1: I think the worst thing you can do to a
20:47
Speaker 1: curtis to say you don't have the work. I think
20:51
Speaker 1: that's a form of abuse. I'm spending our money. You know,
20:56
Speaker 1: I'm paying for your education. You've got shoes on your feet, Go.
21:00
Speaker 6: Go to work.
21:02
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't agree with that sentiment at all. I
21:05
Speaker 3: think you can tell your children that they need to work,
21:07
Speaker 3: and I think you can encourage them to have a
21:09
Speaker 3: good work ethic. And there's no doubt that Sting has
21:11
Speaker 3: a wonderful work ethic. I don't think you get to
21:13
Speaker 3: where he has in his career without having really really
21:17
Speaker 3: worked hard over the years. But I just don't understand
21:20
Speaker 3: why you wouldn't want to leave your fortune to your children.
21:23
Speaker 3: Where else would it go? You want to try and
21:25
Speaker 3: set your kids up, to set their grandkids up and
21:27
Speaker 3: the next generation after another. I mean, you don't know
21:30
Speaker 3: what the future holds. They could really really need that money.
21:33
Speaker 3: I just find that that absolutely peculiar, and I don't
21:36
Speaker 3: think it amounts to child abuse. I think that's absolutely
21:39
Speaker 3: dramatic on his end. Obviously, his kids have lived very
21:41
Speaker 3: comfortable lives. Let's be honest, I've probably had everythingand say,
21:47
Speaker 3: but you know, even if it weren't talking about him,
21:49
Speaker 3: you would tell your children, no, you've got to work
21:51
Speaker 3: hard and you've got to, you know, work hard to
21:54
Speaker 3: build a life for yourself. But come on set with them.
21:58
Speaker 2: I'm Withsting this aslutely.
22:00
Speaker 5: Firstly, you can't tell the kids, oh, you've got to
22:02
Speaker 5: work hard well at the same time giving them so
22:05
Speaker 5: much money that in fact they don't have to work hard,
22:08
Speaker 5: and they know they don't have to work hard because
22:10
Speaker 5: they've got this giant pile of money. And I think
22:12
Speaker 5: Sting is someone who came from a really working class background.
22:16
Speaker 5: He clawed his way, he called his way up. He
22:19
Speaker 5: saw what everyone around him was doing in the sort
22:21
Speaker 5: of manual labor that was facing him, what drove him
22:25
Speaker 5: to get into music and to make music. And frankly,
22:28
Speaker 5: if you don't have that, if you don't have that
22:30
Speaker 5: motivating you, and instead you've got a pile of money
22:33
Speaker 5: instead of a bunch of old blokes with callouses down
22:35
Speaker 5: the pub, you are not going to do it. And
22:38
Speaker 5: so I think why not? Why shouldn't He can give
22:40
Speaker 5: them money to charity. His kids are probably going to
22:42
Speaker 5: be fine anyway, because you know, he's obviously been such
22:45
Speaker 5: a wonderful father to them. If a bit tight, and
22:48
Speaker 5: he can give all the money to charity, that can
22:50
Speaker 5: go to people who do need it and don't have
22:52
Speaker 5: a choice, and.
22:53
Speaker 2: His kids can get the moral lesson they deserve.
22:56
Speaker 1: Can he not do both things at the same time?
22:58
Speaker 1: Can he not teach his kids a good work ethic
23:02
Speaker 1: and give them their inheritance? But I mean, wealthy people
23:04
Speaker 1: have structured the inheritance so you don't get it all
23:06
Speaker 1: in one lump sum at age eighteen or twenty five,
23:09
Speaker 1: where you can just blow it and go crazy. You
23:12
Speaker 1: get it, you know, incrementally as you age. Alternatives would
23:18
Speaker 1: be you hide your wealth from your kids. You never
23:21
Speaker 1: quite let on just how much money you do have,
23:24
Speaker 1: so they can do that. Well, I you know, we
23:28
Speaker 1: know what a million records, but we know it's seven
23:33
Speaker 1: and fifty nine million dollars. He could be a little
23:35
Speaker 1: more to screet with it. Otherwise I guess his kids
23:37
Speaker 1: will be like every breath you take, every move. And
23:43
Speaker 1: the other one, of course, is you could do what
23:44
Speaker 1: Warren Buffett did, and he could say, you're not getting
23:47
Speaker 1: any money from me until I can see that you
23:49
Speaker 1: are self sufficient in your own right, and then only
23:52
Speaker 1: then will I release funds.
23:53
Speaker 5: But if in their own right, by definition, they don't
23:57
Speaker 5: need the money, so why don't give it to someone
23:58
Speaker 5: who does? Why don't give it to charity? I want
24:00
Speaker 5: to do what the great father of philanthropy, Andrew Carnegie,
24:04
Speaker 5: who I found out recently, was only about four foot seven,
24:06
Speaker 5: so no wonder he wanted to get very, very rich seven.
24:09
Speaker 5: I know you wanted to get what He used to
24:11
Speaker 5: take all these dates on horse riding dates so he
24:14
Speaker 5: wouldn't have to walk next to them.
24:15
Speaker 1: He wanted to be rich, so he's never short.
24:18
Speaker 3: James, that was what you meant. But you know what,
24:20
Speaker 3: why can't you still set your your children up their
24:24
Speaker 3: children to make sure that they are taking care of
24:26
Speaker 3: for the future, and still donate to charity Because I'd argue,
24:29
Speaker 3: if you're worth seven hundred and fifty nine million dollars,
24:32
Speaker 3: you can do whatever the heck you want.
24:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he doesn't. Again, he doesn't want that.
24:35
Speaker 5: This is someone who knows from his own experience the
24:38
Speaker 5: value and the pride of being self made of known
24:42
Speaker 5: you work for it. I mean, no one gave me
24:43
Speaker 5: a No one gave me a silver platter or set
24:46
Speaker 5: me up if I had seven my mother, My mother
24:50
Speaker 5: had seven hundred and fifty nine million dollars.
24:51
Speaker 2: This worth you might not be around today.
24:53
Speaker 5: Let's just doesn't every parents want views today as you
24:56
Speaker 5: would change very very dramatically.
24:58
Speaker 1: No, doesn't every parents want their kids to do better
25:02
Speaker 1: than they did and their grandkids to do better again,
25:05
Speaker 1: don't you want to build generations so that become stronger.
25:07
Speaker 5: You can't have that because then they'd have to have
25:09
Speaker 5: seven hundred and sixty million dollars.
25:11
Speaker 1: What's divide a byody?
25:12
Speaker 5: But no one's going to do better than him? So
25:15
Speaker 5: you know, I think the best thing because you often
25:17
Speaker 5: say it with the with the one possible exception of
25:19
Speaker 5: the owners of this wonderful media organization, But you often
25:23
Speaker 5: see you know, the second generation of self made men
25:27
Speaker 5: or women or whatever, people who you know, people who
25:29
Speaker 5: do do have everything sort of handed to them, or
25:34
Speaker 5: don't need to prove themselves or to work just to survive.
25:38
Speaker 5: It often ends up really badly. Like I know a
25:40
Speaker 5: lot of a lot of kids of success, really hyper
25:43
Speaker 5: successful people, and because they've got that idea, they have
25:46
Speaker 5: to live up to this or whatever.
25:48
Speaker 2: If the thing just.
25:49
Speaker 5: Takes all that away, it says, no, you don't have
25:51
Speaker 5: to feel guilty about getting a head start. You don't
25:53
Speaker 5: have to feel like you live up to me. You
25:55
Speaker 5: go and live your life as though you're a normal person,
25:58
Speaker 5: starting out the way everyone else does, and you will
26:01
Speaker 5: feel better and healthier about yourself.
26:04
Speaker 1: I am just glad, Joe Hildebrand that your kids, who
26:06
Speaker 1: I've met, and they're delightful.
26:07
Speaker 2: Thank you.
26:08
Speaker 1: But they are too young to be up this late
26:09
Speaker 1: watching tonight. Otherwise they would be broken hearted.
26:11
Speaker 2: Here they're already broken.
26:13
Speaker 5: They're already so obnoxiously spoilt that I can tell you
26:16
Speaker 5: from pure hard world experience that give them nothing, Give
26:19
Speaker 5: them nothing. The two bags of kettle chips I've got
26:22
Speaker 5: in the car, I'm going to throw them out the
26:24
Speaker 5: window on the way home.
26:25
Speaker 2: Change my mind, all right.
26:26
Speaker 1: I want to get your opinion on some comments from
26:29
Speaker 1: Malcolm Turnbull about an Australian artist currently exhibiting at a
26:33
Speaker 1: festival in Venice where he's representing Australia. The artist is
26:38
Speaker 1: Khalid sab Sabi. I think I've got his name correct.
26:42
Speaker 1: He was chosen by Creative Australia to represent our nation
26:47
Speaker 1: at the Arts Festival in Venice, but then he was
26:49
Speaker 1: dumped when it became known that he'd produced a work
26:53
Speaker 1: of art back in about two thousand and six where
26:57
Speaker 1: I think it was two thousand and six where he
26:59
Speaker 1: depicted the former leader of Hesbala Hasen Nazraala, and he
27:04
Speaker 1: depicted him in what appeared to be quite a glowing light.
27:08
Speaker 1: Some people accused him of glorifying the HESBA leader. Of course,
27:13
Speaker 1: the artist himself denies that. He says, I don't stand
27:15
Speaker 1: for terrorism, racism, anti Semitism, islamophobia's aenophobia or any form
27:20
Speaker 1: of hate. However, others didn't see it that way, and
27:23
Speaker 1: so he was dumped as the artist to represent Australia.
27:26
Speaker 1: That was later overturned and so now he's over there
27:29
Speaker 1: in Venice representing our nation. Malcolm Turnbull made some comments
27:34
Speaker 1: regarding him today, saying this sort of demonizing Muslims, referring
27:40
Speaker 1: to the decision to dump this artist, which is what
27:44
Speaker 1: it was. He says, demonizing Muslims, he's not only wrong,
27:47
Speaker 1: it's absolutely playing into the hands of extremists. I said
27:50
Speaker 1: this to Alan Jones years ago when I was in politics.
27:53
Speaker 1: People who want to wage culture wars against Islam in
27:55
Speaker 1: general or Muslims in general, basically recruiting sergeants for ISIS.
28:01
Speaker 1: So that's Malcolm Turnbull today I thought those comments were interesting.
28:07
Speaker 1: A couple of things. Firstly, no one was demonizing Muslims
28:12
Speaker 1: when the decision was made to dump this guy from
28:15
Speaker 1: the Australian exhibit. The charge was, which he denies, but
28:19
Speaker 1: the charge was that he'd produced art glorifying the leader
28:23
Speaker 1: of Hesbalah, a terrorist organization, So Muslims were not demonized,
28:28
Speaker 1: it was a specific charge. Malcolm Turble also says he's
28:31
Speaker 1: never believed there should be any culture wars against Islam. Well,
28:35
Speaker 1: I would argue that's a little naive, since Islam promotes
28:40
Speaker 1: a worldview that many people in a liberal democracy would
28:43
Speaker 1: have very different ideas concerning and so there's always going
28:48
Speaker 1: to be some kind of clash between worldviews. Now, whether
28:50
Speaker 1: you want to call it a cultural war or simply
28:53
Speaker 1: disagreements about the way life should happen, you're going to
28:56
Speaker 1: get that surely. And third, he said that criticism of
29:00
Speaker 1: Islam effectively becomes an agency for recruitment of extremists. I
29:06
Speaker 1: would say, if you've got such a high view of
29:09
Speaker 1: Muslims and Islam, that's a pretty disgusting comment to make
29:14
Speaker 1: that you believe Muslims are so fickle and so easily
29:17
Speaker 1: swayed that any criticism of Islam is going to turn
29:20
Speaker 1: them into radical extremists.
29:21
Speaker 3: Oh, seriously, give it up, Malcolm, give it up. You know,
29:25
Speaker 3: I what a dumb and stupid comment to make. I
29:28
Speaker 3: mean seriously. Now you can argue, okay, well, art is
29:32
Speaker 3: in the eye of the beholder, right, But there wasn't
29:35
Speaker 3: just that image that you had mentioned. There was also
29:38
Speaker 3: another one which we can bring up on the screen.
29:40
Speaker 3: This was a thank you very Much exhibit showing a
29:44
Speaker 3: clip of George W. Bush after nine eleven, that same artist,
29:49
Speaker 3: and the title was thank you very much. Now again
29:53
Speaker 3: people can say, oh, well, you know, art is in
29:54
Speaker 3: the eye of the beholder. It's up to you. Well,
29:57
Speaker 3: I would interpret that very different, you know, saying thank you.
30:01
Speaker 3: I would interpret that very different. And any sort of
30:03
Speaker 3: image of the late HESBLA leader in that sort of light, again,
30:09
Speaker 3: I would interpret that extremely different. I'm actually quite sick
30:14
Speaker 3: to death to be honest, of the art industry being
30:16
Speaker 3: hijacked by anti Israel artists and anti Israel advocates. And
30:22
Speaker 3: we have seen it over and over since October seven,
30:24
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. It's if it's not anti Israel art,
30:28
Speaker 3: it's artists in the theater, hijacking an event wearing a
30:32
Speaker 3: kfir as part of a pro Palestine protest, and in
30:36
Speaker 3: the end it is bothersome and it's tiresome. So Malcolm
30:41
Speaker 3: to come out and say, well, this is demonizing Muslims. No,
30:43
Speaker 3: I don't care. I don't care. If this was white
30:45
Speaker 3: people doing it, I would still say the exact same thing.
30:47
Speaker 3: I don't care what race you are. I find that
30:50
Speaker 3: sort of art personally highly inflammatory.
30:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot going on here. Actually one is
30:56
Speaker 5: in terms of the artist himself. I'm still not quite
30:59
Speaker 5: sure what the Hesbeler images meant to represent. But the
31:03
Speaker 5: George Bush one, which was actually never exhibited but it
31:06
Speaker 5: only ended up on his website. But this was George Bush.
31:11
Speaker 5: What he was saying was basically, Al Qaeder, you idiots,
31:15
Speaker 5: you've just given George Bush the excuse he wanted to
31:19
Speaker 5: go to war in the Middle East. Now that is
31:21
Speaker 5: absolute horseshit, to be honest, because George Bush was very
31:24
Speaker 5: reluctant and didn't want to get dragged into a foreign war.
31:27
Speaker 5: But his whole position is that Al Quaeder are actually
31:30
Speaker 5: a bunch of useful idiots, and that's why George W.
31:33
Speaker 2: Bush thanking them for it.
31:35
Speaker 5: And to be honest, I don't think that that's and
31:36
Speaker 5: I know that was my first take on it, and
31:38
Speaker 5: then later on when I looked it up, that was
31:40
Speaker 5: what people at the time were suggesting as well. And again,
31:44
Speaker 5: you know, people can take all sorts of different things,
31:45
Speaker 5: and if someone does look at the thing of the
31:47
Speaker 5: Hesbeler leader being presented as a saint and thinks, oh,
31:49
Speaker 5: maybe here's a leader I should follow, it could have
31:51
Speaker 5: adverse consequences. The thing with Malcolm Turnbull ten years ago
31:55
Speaker 5: when he was Prime Minister, he came under a lot
31:58
Speaker 5: of heat because he was refusing to call out or
32:01
Speaker 5: name you know, Islamist extremism, Islamic radicalism, and people are saying, well,
32:07
Speaker 5: why It's like when people say, you know, when will
32:10
Speaker 5: you condemn anti Semitism and politician will say I condemned
32:13
Speaker 5: anti Semitism and Islamophobia, like they'll never just say the
32:16
Speaker 5: thing that we all know is going on, and that
32:20
Speaker 5: is often on the advice of security agencies. And I
32:22
Speaker 5: know that that's why he was reluctant to say that,
32:24
Speaker 5: because they're saying, we don't want to inflame things anymore,
32:27
Speaker 5: and again, we don't want to radicalize people, which raises
32:31
Speaker 5: your excellent point, and I think I made it at
32:33
Speaker 5: the time, said, if you think that Muslims are so
32:36
Speaker 5: kind of trigger happy and easily easily radicalized, then that's
32:43
Speaker 5: a pretty low opinion of them, and it certainly not
32:45
Speaker 5: the opinion I have. What it also fails to take
32:48
Speaker 5: into consideration, though, is when the public sees what's happening
32:51
Speaker 5: with their own eyes, knows what's happening, and because it's
32:55
Speaker 5: happening in their neighborhoods, or they can see, you know,
32:57
Speaker 5: the profile or the pattern of a certain type of attacks.
33:00
Speaker 5: This is just after Isis was going absolutely bonkers in
33:03
Speaker 5: Syria and all around the world, and you've got a
33:06
Speaker 5: prime minister who's refusing.
33:07
Speaker 2: To use the I word or the M word or
33:09
Speaker 2: whatever that is.
33:10
Speaker 5: When they say, well, you're absolutely you're gas lighting me,
33:14
Speaker 5: you're full of it. I'm going to go and park
33:16
Speaker 5: my vote with someone who does actually call a spade
33:18
Speaker 5: a spade. And again that leads to the rise of
33:21
Speaker 5: far right populist parties, and so in fact, you kind
33:25
Speaker 5: of end up, you know, taking the piss out of
33:28
Speaker 5: people and losing your people think you're taking piss and
33:31
Speaker 5: gas lighting them, and so you lose, you lose the
33:34
Speaker 5: main streatment A and AFP. When they're giving their security advice,
33:37
Speaker 5: they're not going to be thinking like that. It's not
33:39
Speaker 5: their job to think like that. They shouldn't be. They're
33:40
Speaker 5: just thinking about that one particular sort of high risk
33:42
Speaker 5: cohort that they don't want to further inflame or radicalize.
33:46
Speaker 5: But it's meant to be the job of a politician
33:47
Speaker 5: to be able to see the bigger picture, and that
33:49
Speaker 5: was That's something that Urmber obviously struggled to do.
33:52
Speaker 2: But I don't know, And in this.
33:54
Speaker 5: Case, I think maybe it was Tony Burke who raised
33:57
Speaker 5: issues and said maybe Creative Australia should have a bit
33:59
Speaker 5: of a look at this.
34:00
Speaker 2: I think that was the right thing to do.
34:01
Speaker 5: They did first, they suspended him, then it got fully investigated,
34:04
Speaker 5: they put him back. Maybe the system kind of works.
34:07
Speaker 2: Who knows.
34:08
Speaker 5: Anyway, Let's get onto far more exciting things than Islamic
34:11
Speaker 5: extremism and art and culture wars. Let's get onto the
34:15
Speaker 5: one thing that really gets everybody's motor running, and that is,
34:18
Speaker 5: of course, the upcoming federal budget. And we are told
34:23
Speaker 5: that experts are warning that looming tax changes. Of course,
34:26
Speaker 5: we all know negative gearing and the capital gains tax
34:28
Speaker 5: when you sell your investment properties could be a quote
34:31
Speaker 5: unquote toxic mix for owners and renters. This is a
34:37
Speaker 5: grab from Jim Charmers today talking about negative gearing when
34:41
Speaker 5: I think that we might even see just a little
34:43
Speaker 5: bit of intergenerational inequality.
34:47
Speaker 2: Have listen.
34:49
Speaker 7: I think it's really clear to a lot of Australians
34:52
Speaker 7: that the housing market and the tax system is making
34:56
Speaker 7: it harder for people, particularly for younger people, and so
35:01
Speaker 7: I think we've got an obligation and a responsibility to
35:05
Speaker 7: respond to that.
35:07
Speaker 5: However, of course experts to say, well, hang on a minute.
35:10
Speaker 5: If you're doing this at a time of high interest rates,
35:13
Speaker 5: this is crazy. The head of the Finance Brokes Association
35:16
Speaker 5: of Australia, Peter White, said this was creating a quote
35:19
Speaker 5: unquote perfect economic storm, and a lot of people, including
35:23
Speaker 5: labor voting friends of mine who are pretty smart guys,
35:27
Speaker 5: finance journals, people who have seen this sort of thing
35:30
Speaker 5: come and go before we all sort of cut our teeth.
35:32
Speaker 5: When John Howard was handing out the first home owner's bonus,
35:37
Speaker 5: saying this is exactly the wrong time to be doing
35:41
Speaker 5: Even if this is the right thing to do, and
35:43
Speaker 5: this is my position, even this is the right thing
35:44
Speaker 5: to do, eventually it's the wrong time to be doing
35:47
Speaker 5: it because you have a far more urgent rental crisis
35:51
Speaker 5: that is more severe and more vital to be fixed
35:55
Speaker 5: than the home ownership crisis.
35:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I've work with We've.
35:58
Speaker 1: Got to go to a break. Quick comment, Anka, Well.
36:00
Speaker 3: It's going to send rental prices through the roof and
36:02
Speaker 3: why would you bother with an investment property? Will make
36:04
Speaker 3: them even more unattractive. And you know what the problem
36:05
Speaker 3: is not one more house is going to be built
36:07
Speaker 3: because of it.
36:08
Speaker 2: Good. That was incredibly quickly said. All right, that was
36:11
Speaker 2: like you're on time and a half.
36:12
Speaker 1: We're going to go to a commercial break. When we
36:14
Speaker 1: come back, we'll look at what's making headlines tomorrow, including
36:17
Speaker 1: the way that the media is reporting the arrival in
36:20
Speaker 1: Australia of those ISIS brides that's coming up after this.
36:30
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to the program. Let's take a
36:32
Speaker 1: look at what's making headlines tomorrow. We'll start with how
36:36
Speaker 1: the papers are reporting the arrival in Australia of the
36:40
Speaker 1: ISIS cohort the Daily Telegraph has gone with Ossie, wife
36:44
Speaker 1: of Isis fighter in dramatic airport arrest. As Cohort returns,
36:48
Speaker 1: the headline reads, there goes the bride.
36:52
Speaker 3: That's a great one.
36:53
Speaker 1: Bad from the Daily Telegraph done.
36:54
Speaker 2: Here comes the bride.
36:55
Speaker 5: If it was like from the perspective of the people,
36:58
Speaker 5: like before she got shuffled anyway, Well, I guess it's
37:00
Speaker 5: a great much question, he goes, very smart man is
37:03
Speaker 5: always right.
37:04
Speaker 1: I like the Adelaide Advertiser headline bride and sneak reads
37:08
Speaker 1: the headline Islamic state sympathizer treated to side exit arrest.
37:13
Speaker 1: If we go to the Herald's Son, they have gone
37:16
Speaker 1: with airport drama. Isis bride mum and daughter arrested? Bridal
37:21
Speaker 1: party over reads the headline.
37:24
Speaker 2: The Herald's time. That's actually pretty.
37:26
Speaker 1: It's pretty good. I would I would give the prize.
37:29
Speaker 1: I think to the Daily Tel Daily Talley, there goes
37:34
Speaker 1: the bride. What did the Australian do? Denika?
37:36
Speaker 3: Well, the os went with bride scandalous return and a
37:40
Speaker 3: reckoning tarmac arrests has two face slave charges.
37:44
Speaker 2: I get it. Where's the pun?
37:45
Speaker 3: I know where was the pun in that one? But
37:47
Speaker 3: but this is what the story says. It says three
37:49
Speaker 3: out of four ISIS linked women who landed back in
37:51
Speaker 3: Australia from Syria on Thursday night have been arrested, with
37:55
Speaker 3: two Melbourne women charged with slavery slavery related offenses and
37:58
Speaker 3: a Sydney woman with entering and remaining in the declared
38:02
Speaker 3: terrorism aria. The group arrived in two separate cut Our
38:04
Speaker 3: Airways flights, one touchdown in Melbourne just after five point
38:07
Speaker 3: thirty and the second shortly after. And they've also got
38:10
Speaker 3: that image there that we were talking about earlier, the
38:14
Speaker 3: men dressed in black, apparently security guards there to help
38:17
Speaker 3: escort them out of the airport before they got into
38:21
Speaker 3: a scuffle.
38:22
Speaker 5: A lot of people are and I think rightly so,
38:25
Speaker 5: making drawing the distinction between the fact that these at
38:30
Speaker 5: least one of these, one of the ISIS brides in
38:35
Speaker 5: Sydney was basically sort of shuffled out, spirited away out
38:38
Speaker 5: of a side entrance, away from the prying eyes of
38:41
Speaker 5: the media, while Ben Roberts Smith, ye, who you know,
38:47
Speaker 5: I'm not in the sort of ra Robert Smith cheer squad,
38:49
Speaker 5: but he's got a Victoria Cross for actually going and
38:52
Speaker 5: serving his country. These people are accusing of going and
38:55
Speaker 5: trying to help terrorists attack our country, and he gets
38:58
Speaker 5: arrested in full view of everybody, including his own children.
39:03
Speaker 5: And these guys, the guy, we better protect their privacy.
39:06
Speaker 5: I know, I know, the telly is quite wound up,
39:09
Speaker 5: and rightly.
39:10
Speaker 1: So there's all these amazing paradoxes right now. So you've
39:13
Speaker 1: got a guy who went overseas to fight Islamic terrorists
39:17
Speaker 1: versus these people who joined went over to live in
39:21
Speaker 1: a terrorist run region now coming home. And then, of course,
39:24
Speaker 1: as Sherry marks and pointed out quite rightly earlier this evening,
39:28
Speaker 1: we've got a raw commission into anti Semitism happening at
39:31
Speaker 1: the very time that these people associated with is are
39:34
Speaker 1: arriving back.
39:35
Speaker 3: Are also on the Australian Look, this is interesting to me,
39:39
Speaker 3: build and they can come. This is an exclusive. The
39:41
Speaker 3: Coalition will cap net overseas migration in line with new
39:45
Speaker 3: home completions under a tougher immigration policy that ties the
39:49
Speaker 3: number of people coming into Australia with available housing supply.
39:53
Speaker 3: Angus Taylor will use his first Budget in Reply speech
39:55
Speaker 3: next Thursday to unveil the second plank of the Coalition's
39:59
Speaker 3: immigration policy and ramp up attacks on Anthony Alban easy
40:03
Speaker 3: for pitting Australian against Australian. Look, this is quite fascinating
40:07
Speaker 3: because Labor has not achieved not one of its housing targets.
40:11
Speaker 3: It's meant to build. I think it's about one point
40:13
Speaker 3: two million homes by the end of the decade and
40:15
Speaker 3: it is so far behind. And all of the states
40:18
Speaker 3: are also very, very much so behind the targets. I
40:22
Speaker 3: think this is fantastic. But look, once we actually get
40:25
Speaker 3: a number from the cold, this is what we need.
40:27
Speaker 3: We need a number. It's all very well and good
40:29
Speaker 3: to say we're going to do a values migration system,
40:31
Speaker 3: fantastic and yet build and they can come, that's the
40:34
Speaker 3: second part of it. Fantastic, But we need a number.
40:37
Speaker 3: What is the NOOM going to be because that will
40:40
Speaker 3: determine absolutely everything, and there certainly needs to be a
40:43
Speaker 3: massive cutback given Labor has brought in about one point
40:46
Speaker 3: two million migrants since first elected.
40:48
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor also revealed part of their attack line against
40:52
Speaker 1: the government's budget in terms of this intergenerational fairness. He
40:57
Speaker 1: makes the point that you know what, the previous generation
41:01
Speaker 1: have not been unfair to younger people. The government's been
41:04
Speaker 1: unfair to the entire nation by jacking up immigration numbers
41:08
Speaker 1: when not enough houses are being built, so clearly that
41:10
Speaker 1: will be their line of attack.
41:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, the official numbers are actually believed or not because
41:15
Speaker 5: there was that big surge after COVID. The official numbers
41:17
Speaker 5: are still about one hundred and eighty five thousand and
41:21
Speaker 5: about a bit over two thirds of those skilled migrants
41:23
Speaker 5: and about fifty grand the family reunion. But again that's
41:28
Speaker 5: the official stream. And then there's the net migration numbers
41:30
Speaker 5: where pels what about just all the people just coming
41:32
Speaker 5: and everything. But the numbers are actually going down. That's
41:36
Speaker 5: what the number has been since forever and ever and ever,
41:39
Speaker 5: except Scott Morrison briefly brought it down to about one
41:42
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty. So hopefully we'll see things equalized. Anyway,
41:45
Speaker 5: Onto the mighty Newcastle Herald. It doesn't often get a
41:48
Speaker 5: guernsey on the late debate, and we thought we'd throw
41:50
Speaker 5: it a bit of a bone here because it's got
41:52
Speaker 5: a story on the front that really is of massive
41:54
Speaker 5: national significance. The documents cast out on Newcastle as East
41:59
Speaker 5: Coast Home fourth Fleet Nuclear sub based Secrets Secret Documents
42:04
Speaker 5: reveal serious concerns about placing a nuclear submarine base in Newcastle,
42:09
Speaker 5: including its proximity to a large ammonium plant. Despite the concerns,
42:14
Speaker 5: the government has not ruled it out of contention. Newcastle
42:17
Speaker 5: has been shortlisted alongside Brisbane and Port Kembler for an
42:20
Speaker 5: east coast base to support the nation's new fleet of
42:23
Speaker 5: nuclear submarines. Documents marked sensitive and secured it under the
42:27
Speaker 5: New South Wales Freedom of Information process show the minutes
42:30
Speaker 5: from a mid twenty twenty two meeting of the New
42:33
Speaker 5: East Coast Base Engagement Working Group. The group had been
42:36
Speaker 5: directed to work with the New Southlands government. Bah blah
42:38
Speaker 5: bah blah, blah blah blah. Anyway, too close to a
42:41
Speaker 5: large ammonium plant has been the verdict and may not
42:43
Speaker 5: go ahead. It's a bit of a debbie downer for
42:46
Speaker 5: the Newcastle locals, but Port Kembler still going strong.
42:51
Speaker 1: My tip would be Brisbane.
42:52
Speaker 2: I think that's that farger.
42:54
Speaker 5: Honestly, it makes sense to you have have sold out.
42:58
Speaker 1: You wanted a bit closer to the top. Don't be
43:00
Speaker 1: too far down south.
43:01
Speaker 5: It could put a bit higher, couldn't he Well, not
43:03
Speaker 5: really sure, not just because you spend every other weekend
43:06
Speaker 5: in Brisbane and that you've gone soft, You've been compromised
43:09
Speaker 5: by your.
43:10
Speaker 1: I love Brisbane, but it just makes strategic sense. But no,
43:13
Speaker 1: Cans is too far north.
43:14
Speaker 3: You think it is too far. I feel like maybe
43:16
Speaker 3: the higher the better.
43:17
Speaker 2: Chuck it in Darwin.
43:18
Speaker 1: Well, if only we had a port in Darwin, that
43:20
Speaker 1: would be handy.
43:23
Speaker 3: To raise that.
43:24
Speaker 2: We brought it back. We bought it back. We've taken
43:26
Speaker 2: it back, haven't we.
43:27
Speaker 1: No, not yet, we haven't. He's promised to take it back,
43:29
Speaker 1: but nothing's has raised.
43:30
Speaker 5: It as good as since when has albo ever broken
43:34
Speaker 5: a promise?
43:35
Speaker 1: Very good point, very quickly. Let's go to the career
43:37
Speaker 1: mail Integrity hall pass reads the headline, tell you what
43:41
Speaker 1: this scandal is not going away. Premier David Krissa Foley
43:44
Speaker 1: has again declared he was not obligated to make sure
43:46
Speaker 1: a secret year long affair between two of his ministers
43:49
Speaker 1: did not pose a conflict of interest when the l
43:52
Speaker 1: NP formed government. He failed to ask the Integrity Commission,
43:55
Speaker 1: when in opposition, to assess whether the affair posed a
43:58
Speaker 1: risk to cabinet integrity or public confidence, and he rejected
44:02
Speaker 1: suggestions he had a responsibility as Premier to ensure the
44:05
Speaker 1: relationship didn't create a conflict, saying he would not go
44:08
Speaker 1: into people's personal lives. The interesting part of this story
44:12
Speaker 1: is he refused to answer questions from journalists about whether
44:15
Speaker 1: he was the one who told these guys to cool
44:18
Speaker 1: it before they came into government. He was asked that
44:22
Speaker 1: by a journalist, according to the Kurimal report, and he
44:24
Speaker 1: did not answer. So it's an interesting comment.
44:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, what does that tell you? But kind I find
44:31
Speaker 3: it this fascinating flash in front of the papers affairs,
44:36
Speaker 3: and I like the headline integrity hall past. That's fantastic.
44:40
Speaker 5: But yeah, for anyone who has just hasn't caught up
44:43
Speaker 5: on this incredible story. So basically, the line that they
44:46
Speaker 5: are still sticking to and that christophil is sticking to
44:48
Speaker 5: is yes they were having an affair before the election,
44:52
Speaker 5: and yes they're having an affair after the election, but
44:54
Speaker 5: at the one bit where they were meant to declare
44:56
Speaker 5: the affair, they are on a temporary break.
44:59
Speaker 2: There you go from free.
45:01
Speaker 1: It will keep dominating the papers for a while, yet
45:04
Speaker 1: we're gonna go to a break when we come back.
45:05
Speaker 1: Animal rights activists need the fire brigade, ambulances and stretchers
45:10
Speaker 1: to rescue them after their latest protests. That's next, all right.
45:16
Speaker 1: Pepsi soft drink uses sugar that comes from India, and
45:20
Speaker 1: the sugar in India is carted by bulls in India.
45:23
Speaker 1: But animal rights activists accused people in India of mistreating
45:27
Speaker 1: the bulls, which is why they decided to cement their
45:30
Speaker 1: feet to the road in New York.
45:34
Speaker 5: Gets more, there's more talents.
45:41
Speaker 2: You guys need to live.
45:47
Speaker 1: Six protesters were arrested, but only after the New York
45:50
Speaker 1: Fire Brigade spent hours cutting them free. A couple of
45:53
Speaker 1: the protesters were taken away in ambulances on stretches because
45:58
Speaker 1: of injury sustained. Wilson men themselves to the road. Who
46:01
Speaker 1: could have guessed that it would not go well?
46:03
Speaker 3: Do you know what I always think with these activists
46:04
Speaker 3: that cement themselves or tie themselves to trees, Just leave
46:08
Speaker 3: them there and we'll see how they go at toilet time?
46:12
Speaker 3: How do they be leaving there, leaving there in the cold,
46:14
Speaker 3: leaving there in the conditions. Give that a crack and
46:16
Speaker 3: see how you go.
46:18
Speaker 2: How do they use the bulls to make the sugar?
46:20
Speaker 1: No, the bulls are used to transport the sugar, and
46:23
Speaker 1: they accuse the Indian people of whipping the bulls.
46:26
Speaker 5: They're not like beating the bulls, like crushing the bulls up.
46:29
Speaker 5: It's not like when you drink a pepsi or heaven forbid,
46:31
Speaker 5: a red bull does not actually drinking ball. That's disappointing, isn't.
46:35
Speaker 2: That's clearing that up.
46:36
Speaker 5: Imagine that would have been one of those things that
46:38
Speaker 5: had really put a bit of lead in your pencil.
46:41
Speaker 3: Indeed, we've spoken about the brides all night, but we're
46:44
Speaker 3: going to talk about a very different bride, an Australian
46:47
Speaker 3: influencer by the name of Casey James. She's had an
46:50
Speaker 3: interesting moment at her own wedding. Now you might know
46:53
Speaker 3: that brides these days they do two looks. So you
46:55
Speaker 3: do the look when you go to the chapel and
46:57
Speaker 3: you get married for the ceremony, and then they change
47:00
Speaker 3: into something else for the reception because I want to
47:02
Speaker 3: get on the dance floor and and you know, look
47:04
Speaker 3: a bit she Now she entered her reception, but the
47:09
Speaker 3: response to her second outfit was a little bit underwhelming. Yeah,
47:19
Speaker 3: no one seemed to notice, So help me, what.
47:22
Speaker 1: Was she expecting? Like applause?
47:23
Speaker 3: Well, normally you do get applause because you go from
47:26
Speaker 3: maybe wearing like a big dress like this and you
47:28
Speaker 3: wear something a little bit more demure, and you're like, whoa,
47:30
Speaker 3: she looks gorgeous, Like she looks hot. The groom might
47:33
Speaker 3: come out and go, whoa, that's my.
47:35
Speaker 1: Brad, the fault of the should, the MC at the weinter,
47:39
Speaker 1: everyone's attention to here she comes, ladies and.
47:41
Speaker 3: Gentlemen posted this herself, so she sort of poked fun
47:46
Speaker 3: at herself on her social media.
47:48
Speaker 5: It's just like a nothing berg. It's like me, oh,
47:51
Speaker 5: I feel like you have to.
47:52
Speaker 3: Like some women cut their hair mid mid mid ceremony.
47:57
Speaker 3: They cut it. They come back and like, look at me,
47:59
Speaker 3: I've cut my hair.
48:00
Speaker 2: But wait.
48:00
Speaker 1: So she's humiliated at a wedding, but not so humiliated
48:03
Speaker 1: that she doesn't post it online. And she's an influencer.
48:07
Speaker 2: I smell a rat something.
48:10
Speaker 3: What else is going on here?
48:11
Speaker 1: They are I would have thought, so yeah, and the
48:14
Speaker 1: Pope very quickly.
48:15
Speaker 5: If you need to sort out your insurance and you're
48:18
Speaker 5: the Pope, do not call this person. Pope Leo actually
48:21
Speaker 5: had to call up his bank on the phone and
48:25
Speaker 5: was about to finalize his little transaction. They actually sir,
48:29
Speaker 5: you'll have to come down to the branch, and he said, look,
48:31
Speaker 5: I can't on the Pope, at which point the person
48:35
Speaker 5: just hung up on him, so I can't tell.
48:38
Speaker 1: Her, not even the Pope. That's it from us stick around.
48:40
Speaker 1: Coming up in just a moment is the reader Pennehey show.
48:42
Speaker 1: Have a great weekend. We'll see you next week.