Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / NOLAN WELLS AUTOPSY: DEEP TISSUE DISCOLORATION BACK OF HEAD, NECK BONE MISSING

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NOLAN WELLS AUTOPSY: DEEP TISSUE DISCOLORATION BACK OF HEAD, NECK BONE MISSING · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Bombshell tonight in the tragic death of a young man,
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Speaker 1: Nolan Wells. In the last hours we learn the contents
0:11
Speaker 1: of a second independent autopsy on Nolan's body. Good evening,
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Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime stories. I want
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Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. Nolan was not
0:30
Speaker 1: on board. His body spotted by the United Casian Navy.
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Speaker 2: We knew in this case the timeframe that was involved,
0:37
Speaker 2: that we were looking for a recovery. At this point,
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Speaker 2: it appears as though it was a drowning. Whatever happened
0:43
Speaker 2: happened really really close to where the body was found.
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Speaker 3: Preliminary report second autopsy death of Nolan Xavier Wells. Cause
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Speaker 3: of death undetermined pending investigation. And we'll explain that as
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Speaker 3: we go through the report this morning. The manner of
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Speaker 3: death undetermined pending investigation.
1:08
Speaker 1: What happened to Noen Wells. I listened and I listened,
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Speaker 1: and I listened to our friend Ben Crump as he
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Speaker 1: went through the independent autopsy. And this is what I
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Speaker 1: find to be.
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Speaker 4: Probative preliminary findings. And this.
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Speaker 3: Is significant focal area of red discoloration and the soft
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Speaker 3: tissue of the back of the head, the osipitar region
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Speaker 3: he said the ideology is unknown at this time. He
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Speaker 3: said the body was received after the initial autopsy. He
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Speaker 3: said the body had marked deco.
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Speaker 1: Decompensation, decomposition. What does that mean probatively? What does that prove?
2:09
Speaker 1: Joining me and all Star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 1: what we are learning tonight. That was an independent autopsy
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Speaker 1: ordered by Nolan Wells's family. We still don't have the
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Speaker 1: official autopsy from the Mississippi Medical Examiner's office. But straight
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Speaker 1: out to a renowned medical examiner, you know him well,
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Speaker 1: joining us, doctor Kendall Crowns. He is the chief medical
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Speaker 1: Examiner of Terrant County Fort Worth, literally thousands and thousands
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Speaker 1: and thousands of autopsies under his belt. He is the
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Speaker 1: esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU.
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Speaker 1: I don't have to explain to you what it takes
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Speaker 1: to become not just a medical examiner, but the chief
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Speaker 1: medical examiner in a metropolitan area like Fort Worth. All
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Speaker 1: that aside cod mod undetermined. But what jumped out at
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Speaker 1: me among so many things, doctor Kendle Crowns, what does
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Speaker 1: he mean about the red discoloration in the deep soft
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Speaker 1: tissues overlaying the occipital bones what is that translate?
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Speaker 5: So, what if that is is the aciptal bone is
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Speaker 5: the bone in the this is your skull, It's the
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Speaker 5: bone in the back of your head, the directly backside
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Speaker 5: of your head. So when he's describing these hemorrhages and
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Speaker 5: the deep soft tissues, it means deep in the musculature
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Speaker 5: that holds your head in place, there is a red discoloration.
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Speaker 5: What could this be? It could be settling of the
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Speaker 5: blood from decomposition or from lividity, cooling of the blood.
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Speaker 5: The body has has been kind of put on its
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Speaker 5: back and transport to Washington, DC.
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Speaker 1: So trust me, I don't think I know more than
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Speaker 1: you on this, doctor Kennel Crowns, but you got me
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Speaker 1: drinking out of the fire hydrant. You're giving me so
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Speaker 1: much information. I had to break in right there because
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Speaker 1: you said the I'm going to quote posterior red discoloration
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Speaker 1: in deep soft tissue overlying occipital deep soft tissue. To
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Speaker 1: a lay person like me, that means it's deep below
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Speaker 1: the skin. And you just stated that that could be
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Speaker 1: from the settling of the blood. In other words, if
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Speaker 1: he were lying on his back when he died, the
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Speaker 1: blood would settle to the back of his head. But
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Speaker 1: isn't it true to you? Brian Trasher, Vice President United
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Speaker 1: Cajun Navy. The Navy participated in the search, and I
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Speaker 1: got to clear up that whole thing about fully clothed
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Speaker 1: with you that said, isn't it true? And I'm looking
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Speaker 1: at the picture on my phone that I got from
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Speaker 1: an undisclosed source. I'm looking at Nolan's body on the beach.
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Speaker 1: We are not showing it. He's face down, isn't.
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Speaker 6: He Yes, that's correct, Yeah, he was.
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Speaker 1: When I'm going to come back to you about the clothing. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: what repeat?
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Speaker 7: No, I said when when we observed him from the air, Yeah,
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Speaker 7: he was face down and he was wearing swim trunks
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Speaker 7: and only swim trunks. I think that the term fully
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Speaker 7: clothed just got taken out of context.
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Speaker 1: Well, when it's when you look at the body from
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Speaker 1: high up, it appears at first like he had on
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Speaker 1: a shirt with swim trunks. But he does not have
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Speaker 1: on a shirt. He only has on swim trunks. That's
5:54
Speaker 1: a whole peripheral issue. But back to doctor Kendall Crowns.
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Speaker 1: So doctor Kendall Crowns, you may have an explanation with
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Speaker 1: this I've already thought of one, and I'm not a
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Speaker 1: medical examiner, but I don't see how the deep red
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Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Was there a blow to the back
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Speaker 1: of the head. Did he fall off a boat, did
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Speaker 1: he hit his head on something else. If it turns
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Speaker 1: out he drowned, how did he get in the water,
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Speaker 1: Why was he in the water? Why did everybody leave him?
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Speaker 1: Lots of questions tonight. But if he was found faced down,
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Speaker 1: the blood would not have settled to the back of
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Speaker 1: his occipital.
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Speaker 5: Well, that's correct at the initial autopsy, but he was
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Speaker 5: also transported to Washington, d C. On his back, I assume,
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Speaker 5: not on his face, And so after death you can
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Speaker 5: still have pooling of the blood in the dependent areas
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Speaker 5: if the lividity is not fixed, or even if it
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Speaker 5: is fixed, you can have pooling. So it is difficult
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Speaker 5: to say without seeing the actual red in the area
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Speaker 5: and the deep soft tissue, whether this is just a
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Speaker 5: decompositional artifact or if visit indeed blunt force trauma. Now
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Speaker 5: they're not describing any injuries to the skin surface, which
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Speaker 5: would still be there if he was Even if he's decomposed,
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Speaker 5: you would still see injuries abrasions, bruises, lacerations, things of
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Speaker 5: that nature, even with decomposition. So it's difficult to give
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Speaker 5: significance to this deep red area in the musculature of
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Speaker 5: the deep soft tissues of the back of the head
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Speaker 5: without further photograph, photographs, or more information to me it
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Speaker 5: Could it be blood force trauma, yes, Could it be
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Speaker 5: a decompositional artifact, yes. Could it be something from transport, yes,
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Speaker 5: hard to say at this point.
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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me just take each one of
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Speaker 1: those and the rest of the panel plays. If you've
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Speaker 1: got a question or point, jump in. We need all
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Speaker 1: of your brain power. Oh that's that's an OVID invitation
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Speaker 1: to Mobley to jump in. But three things. You said
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Speaker 1: that there could still be pooling of the blood, and
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Speaker 1: I don't want to be to deathcom four into this
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Speaker 1: and get lost in the weeds. But no one is dead.
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Speaker 1: He's already been autopsied. Days have passed, and you're telling
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Speaker 1: me that the blood could still sift down from the
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Speaker 1: front of his face to the back of his neck
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Speaker 1: in one specific area. Why was it pulling all the
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Speaker 1: way down his neck or why just that one area.
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Speaker 1: I don't believe that when you have been deceased that long,
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Speaker 1: you've already undergone autopsy, they've drained the blood from your body.
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Speaker 1: That somehow in a few hours of transport you're gonna
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Speaker 1: get pulling of the blood to one area in the
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Speaker 1: back of your neck.
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Speaker 5: So first off, it's not a few hours of transport,
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Speaker 5: it's from whenever the autopsy ended. He's placed on his back,
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Speaker 5: whenever he's picked up at the scene, he's been placed
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Speaker 5: on his back, So all that comes into play. They
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Speaker 5: don't drain all the blood from the body at autopsy.
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Speaker 5: There's still blood in the body after autopsy. And also
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Speaker 5: decomposition causes the breakdown of tissues, including musculature, which can
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Speaker 5: give a reddish decoloration from the actual decomposition process of
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Speaker 5: the muscle. So all these have to be considered when
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Speaker 5: you're saying a redden area. Because the doctor didn't call
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Speaker 5: it hemorrhage, which is interesting to me. He called it
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Speaker 5: a reddened areas, so I don't know what he's describing.
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Speaker 5: I would love to see pictures. But again, there's no
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Speaker 5: description of a bruise or an abrasion or a laceration
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Speaker 5: on the skin surface of the back of the head.
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Speaker 5: So what the significance of this is. Could it be
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Speaker 5: a decompositional change, could it be something else like blood
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Speaker 5: force injury. It's hard to say. At this point in time.
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Speaker 1: I find it very difficult to believe doctor Kendall Crowns,
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Speaker 1: not one, but two medical examiners cannot figure out whaw
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Speaker 1: he had deep red subcutaneous mar kings subcutaneous? What is
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Speaker 1: that deep subcutaneous?
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Speaker 5: What is that It's underneath the skin, meaning in the
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Speaker 5: fat or the muscle underneath the skin.
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Speaker 1: Okay, straight out to John Mobley joining me out of Charleston.
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Speaker 1: He's a renowned trial attorney founded John Mobley Law Firm. Okay, Mobley,
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Speaker 1: have at it.
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Speaker 8: Well, you know, Nancy, I gotta call it like I
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Speaker 8: see it. You know, there are a lot of things
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Speaker 8: that I don't like about this presentation. I think the problem.
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Speaker 8: The first problem I see is they put out this
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Speaker 8: autopsy and they kind of give you a lot of sizzle.
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Speaker 8: They gave a big dog and pony show, but they
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Speaker 8: didn't really make it clear on them bindings and conclusions
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Speaker 8: and how they could be interpreted. And I think that's
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Speaker 8: kind of the problem with this case. They put all
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Speaker 8: this stuff out there I'll be legal terms all this,
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Speaker 8: you know, forenic jar again and now everybody's whipped up
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Speaker 8: in a frenzy trying to understand what it means, speculating, guessing,
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Speaker 8: and in the reality of it is, unless you're an expert,
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Speaker 8: a forensic expert, you're not. None of us are qualified
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Speaker 8: to interpret those finals.
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Speaker 4: Now.
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Speaker 8: I've been involved in countless homicide cases where I've had
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Speaker 8: to look at forensic autopsies and discuss the findings and experts,
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Speaker 8: and that's what you have to do and open. What
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Speaker 8: it comes down to is they put this thing out there,
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Speaker 8: this preliminary autopsy finding, and they did not present any
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Speaker 8: real conclusions, and that is a problem, you know. And
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Speaker 8: to address your specific concern Nancy about put.
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Speaker 1: Up mobly, Listen, I'm not vouching for the character of
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Speaker 1: Cromp or Sharpton. That said, of course, are you saying
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Speaker 1: they were wrong not to put it out there. I
11:52
Speaker 1: think they were right to put it out there, whether
11:55
Speaker 1: it's in.
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Speaker 8: Or not the manner in which they presented by that
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Speaker 8: he just sat there and read it, and number one,
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Speaker 8: I don't think he was the best person to read it.
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Speaker 8: He's just kind of reading off medical and you know,
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Speaker 8: terms that he didn't do the best job of pronouncing,
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Speaker 8: and they didn't really present a conclusive finding. And what
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Speaker 8: that does is.
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Speaker 1: Well, there is no conclusive finding, Mobley.
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Speaker 8: He should have said that because what he does so
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Speaker 8: and the matter would just presented. When you take a
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Speaker 8: case like this, you take little bits and pieces and
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Speaker 8: put them out.
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Speaker 6: There in that manner.
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Speaker 8: What you're doing is you're feeding these conspiracy theories, like,
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Speaker 8: oh my god, there's some big mystery, some conspiracy about
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Speaker 8: what happened. Regard he's saying, Hey, here's the deal in
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Speaker 8: situations like this, based on the way of decomposition, things
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Speaker 8: like that.
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Speaker 1: Don't you get it? Man, We still don't have the answer.
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Speaker 1: I don't have the answer. He's got a red mark,
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Speaker 1: deep and subcutaneous tissue on the back of his head. Kendall, Kendle,
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Speaker 1: where's Kendall? Why am I not seeing Kendall? Kendall? Please
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Speaker 1: turn around and show everybody what we're talking about, beause
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Speaker 1: I'm doing this. Show me accipital.
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Speaker 5: Right here back ahead?
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Speaker 1: How the world out of his whole body? Is that
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Speaker 1: where the blood pools. I'm just I'm not buying it,
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Speaker 1: and I'm not saying this as a homicide. I am
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Speaker 1: saying it. There are a lot of disturbing circumstances surrounding
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Speaker 1: this young man, the star athlete's death, and I am
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Speaker 1: not letting it go. And I don't care how much
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Speaker 1: hate mail you send me. I do not care, Okay, Mobley,
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Speaker 1: what else?
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Speaker 8: What I want to state is that and this is
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Speaker 8: based on my experience being involved and numerous homicides, having
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Speaker 8: examined numerous autopsies, and disgust the case that finds the
13:59
Speaker 8: numerous and the pathologists. When you have a body, a
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Speaker 8: human individual, Okay, that person has experienced trauma and various
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Speaker 8: physical trauma and various actects of their life. They just
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Speaker 8: had a picture of him being a football way in
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Speaker 8: a football uniform. He can sustain injuries playing football and
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Speaker 8: practice horse round with his friends. So you know, a
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Speaker 8: person can die and have different injuries that pre existed
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Speaker 8: to the date of the death that are completely unrelated
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Speaker 8: to the death, but they are there on the body
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Speaker 8: because they're a live, active individual. And that's my whole
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Speaker 8: point about your fixation on the injury to the back
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Speaker 8: of the head. I'm not saying that it was necessarily predated.
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Speaker 8: The injury but there's got to be some medical evidence
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Speaker 8: to tie to his death, and there is not because
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Speaker 8: they can't do that, they cannot date that injury.
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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, you're hearing Mobley, I just lost a satellite.
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Speaker 1: Get that back up for me. In the meantime, let
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Speaker 1: me hear Crump talking about part of the neck structures
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Speaker 1: and specifically the interior where that I'm going to call
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Speaker 1: it bruising. I'll call it a reddened area because we
15:13
Speaker 1: don't know what it was were absent from the body.
15:19
Speaker 1: What happened to that part of the body. Listen to Crump.
15:22
Speaker 3: So when they're buried there remains, we'll all be with them.
15:26
Speaker 3: But in this occasion, if there's going to be a
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Speaker 3: second autopsy, then the organs are put in the body cavity,
15:35
Speaker 3: so the second pathologists could be able to examine the
15:42
Speaker 3: organs as well.
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Speaker 4: Very significant.
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Speaker 3: For doctor Mitcha was that the anterior inner neck structures
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Speaker 3: were absent.
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Speaker 4: Received with the body from.
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Speaker 1: Our friends at NAACP. Okay, back to you, Kendel CROWNSA
16:05
Speaker 1: and hello, I've gotten All Star panel. Where are they?
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Speaker 1: Did they lose their voices? Doctor Kendl Crowns, wouldn't it
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Speaker 1: be important for the second medical examiner, second doctor to
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Speaker 1: be able to look at the anterior neck structure. They're
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Speaker 1: absent and not received from the body, not received with
16:31
Speaker 1: the body.
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Speaker 5: That's correct, so it would be important. And that's often
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Speaker 5: the problem with second autopsy is structures are kept by
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Speaker 5: the initial medical examiner for further testing or further evaluation,
16:45
Speaker 5: so the second autopsy is often limited by this. So
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Speaker 5: the problem is is the next structures we're talking about
16:52
Speaker 5: high a bone, thyroid, cartilage, laryngeal structures are the structures
16:56
Speaker 5: that are often involved with strangulation. They can be they
17:00
Speaker 5: can buy a medical examiner dissected, evaluated for fractures or
17:04
Speaker 5: injuries or something of that nature. But then they're kept
17:08
Speaker 5: and they are also then further evaluated by a forensic
17:11
Speaker 5: anthropologist who will look for microfractures and things like that
17:15
Speaker 5: to see if there's any trauma whatsoever. And that's probably
17:18
Speaker 5: what's occurring in this case, is they're doing their due
17:21
Speaker 5: diligence and looking at all those next structures to rule
17:25
Speaker 5: out the possibility of a strangulation, and they haven't done
17:28
Speaker 5: it yet and that's why they're still pending. And that's
17:32
Speaker 5: why the second examination can't give you more facts because
17:36
Speaker 5: they don't have those structures to look at. Hopefully they
17:39
Speaker 5: will be sharing between the two medical examiners so they
17:42
Speaker 5: can both come to the same conclusion at some point,
17:45
Speaker 5: But right now those structures are being evaluated by someone
17:48
Speaker 5: else and not available for the second autopsy.
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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about what you just said.
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Speaker 1: If I see deep reddening of the tissue in the
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Speaker 1: back of the neck, I'm going to quit calling it
18:02
Speaker 1: at the occipital the back of the neck, at the
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Speaker 1: lower part of the head. I want to know what
18:09
Speaker 1: happened up here. I want to know was the hyoid bone,
18:13
Speaker 1: which is very fragile. It's not attached to anything. It's
18:16
Speaker 1: kind of floating there, and often in ligature manual, any
18:20
Speaker 1: type of strangulation or stopping your airflow, you'll see that
18:26
Speaker 1: very delicate bone fractured. It's gone. Where is it? Everybody's
18:31
Speaker 1: got one, so where is it? Also, Crump stated that
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Speaker 1: the portion of the neck, the interior portion of the
18:42
Speaker 1: neck that will correspond with the hemorrhaging in the back,
18:48
Speaker 1: is missing. There are two ways to look at this.
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Speaker 1: One is that it's missing because it's been hidden. It's
18:59
Speaker 1: being with held from the second doctor. Why the other
19:03
Speaker 1: way to look at it is what you suggested, Kindle Crowns,
19:06
Speaker 1: and that is that I've seen this done the way
19:12
Speaker 1: that medical examiners and medical related anthro forensic cathropologists do it.
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Speaker 1: They get a tiny cut, tiny cut of that tissue,
19:22
Speaker 1: They put that under a microscope and they look to
19:26
Speaker 1: see if cells have bruising. It's very painstaking. Could they
19:32
Speaker 1: be doing that, I don't know, but it seems to
19:35
Speaker 1: me they would have included that in their notations, that
19:38
Speaker 1: these portions of Nolan's body had been withheld for further testing,
19:42
Speaker 1: But we didn't hear anything about that. Straight out to
19:45
Speaker 1: Sam Krupen, joining US investigative journalists and star off Sampson's World, Sam,
19:51
Speaker 1: did you hear anything about water in the lungs?
19:56
Speaker 9: No, Nancy, I've heard nothing about water in the lungs,
19:59
Speaker 9: And honestly, I've just been sitting here infuriated that everybody
20:04
Speaker 9: is putting so much pressure on this second autopsy that
20:07
Speaker 9: thankfully Colin Kaepernick paid for. But why are we not
20:11
Speaker 9: putting pressure on Sheriff John Ledbetter. Where is the first autopsy?
20:17
Speaker 9: Why have they held it out? There is a video
20:20
Speaker 9: of two nurses who claim to have seen the transport
20:22
Speaker 9: of this body and they said he was face down.
20:26
Speaker 9: So it's honestly, for me, it's just disgusting to see
20:30
Speaker 9: the lack of understanding people commenting on how Ben Crump
20:35
Speaker 9: is reading people saying Ben Crump is a race hustler,
20:39
Speaker 9: like he's the person who's responsible for justice for Ahmad
20:43
Speaker 9: Aubrey who was killed by three racist people and it
20:46
Speaker 9: was covered up. Stacy Turner, the medical examiner, is well
20:51
Speaker 9: known for the death of Tray Reid, ruling it a homicide.
20:55
Speaker 9: She is known for ruling black deaths.
20:59
Speaker 10: She's up.
21:01
Speaker 1: Do I look like a witch stirring a cauldron tonight?
21:07
Speaker 1: I don't really see myself that way. Do not stir
21:10
Speaker 1: the pot crouping, because this is not about politics. This
21:14
Speaker 1: is not what somebody did a long time ago in
21:16
Speaker 1: another case. This is about what we are learning tonight. Yes,
21:20
Speaker 1: And my question is where's the original autopsy. My guess
21:24
Speaker 1: is that they are waiting on the results that doctor
21:27
Speaker 1: Kilvin Crowns just talked about and more. Hey hold simmer down.
21:34
Speaker 1: I want to get to the facts, the facts of
21:36
Speaker 1: this case. I'm want to go back to Brian trasher
21:39
Speaker 1: on that Heather. I'm gonna get to you in just
21:43
Speaker 1: one moment regarding the tracking of the phone and the
21:45
Speaker 1: snapchat and all the digital footprint. But to you, Brian again,
21:50
Speaker 1: let me pull it back up. We are not showing
21:52
Speaker 1: this photo. Do not show it. Control room, Brian again.
22:00
Speaker 1: The Cajun Navy spotted, searched for, and spotted no one's body.
22:06
Speaker 1: Tell me what was saying. Let's see some of that
22:09
Speaker 1: aerial video.
22:11
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we were flying over the northwest tip of
22:14
Speaker 7: Horne Island after about two hours in the air canvas
22:17
Speaker 7: in a pretty large area, when we noticed some some
22:21
Speaker 7: law enforcement boats converging to the northwest tip. We descended,
22:25
Speaker 7: circled around and saw a number of law enforcement personnel
22:29
Speaker 7: on the beach and then you could see a body
22:32
Speaker 7: laying on at the shoreline. Of course, using a zoom
22:36
Speaker 7: lens to go in, we could see that the body
22:39
Speaker 7: match the description in Olan Wells. The whole thing about
22:43
Speaker 7: you know, Ben Crump mentioning that that we told the
22:46
Speaker 7: parents he was fully cleared.
22:47
Speaker 6: That's not true.
22:47
Speaker 7: We never told the parents that he was wearing just
22:49
Speaker 7: a swim trunks that matched the description that in the
22:53
Speaker 7: in the Missing persons report, and it matched the photos
22:56
Speaker 7: that were taking of him that day, and that was
22:59
Speaker 7: all he was presumed.
23:00
Speaker 6: That's all I want.
23:01
Speaker 1: To say, Brian, Brian, I want to show some video
23:04
Speaker 1: there it is. I hope you can see your monitor.
23:07
Speaker 1: That is some of friends over at TMZ. It's the
23:10
Speaker 1: video that we and I believe is Nolan Wells. And
23:16
Speaker 1: I can tell you from looking at the aerial photo
23:19
Speaker 1: I've zoomed in on it, those appear to be the
23:22
Speaker 1: same pants that he was wearing when his body was found.
23:26
Speaker 1: His body looks like it just washed up on shore
23:32
Speaker 1: right now. Regarding CD, Yeah, when you look at it
23:37
Speaker 1: way up, it looks like he's wearing a shirt. But
23:42
Speaker 1: when you zoom in you see he's not wearing a shirt,
23:47
Speaker 1: nor is he wearing shoes. Isn't it true? Doctor Kendall
23:53
Speaker 1: Crown's Medical examiner, lecturer star of Mayhem and the Morgue
24:00
Speaker 1: so much more, Doctor Kendall Crowns. Isn't it true that
24:03
Speaker 1: in certain cases, and I learned this on an arsen
24:06
Speaker 1: case cod because of death manner of death as well,
24:11
Speaker 1: MOD can also be determined at times based on what
24:17
Speaker 1: we call extrinsic evidence. For instance, in the arsen case,
24:22
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the evidence that the purp checked the
24:28
Speaker 1: weather station, the weather report for the day the arson
24:34
Speaker 1: went down killed his wife, that he moved out all
24:38
Speaker 1: of his nice suits and family photos of his family,
24:41
Speaker 1: not his wife's family, all of his important tax documents,
24:45
Speaker 1: everything out of the house the day before the arson
24:50
Speaker 1: in which his wife was killed. Also, he called his
24:56
Speaker 1: insurance company and asked, hey, if I have a fire
24:59
Speaker 1: in my home, will you cover rental furniture? And then
25:03
Speaker 1: his house burned down the next day. The medical examiner
25:06
Speaker 1: looked at that evidence as well when determining mod had
25:11
Speaker 1: been homicide. Isn't it true my question that a medical
25:17
Speaker 1: examiner will look at extrinsic evidence as well as what
25:20
Speaker 1: they see on the body itself.
25:24
Speaker 5: Yes, all evidence is considered in an autopsy. You can't
25:28
Speaker 5: autopsy in a vacuum with no investigative information, no toxicologic findings.
25:34
Speaker 5: All you have is autopsy findings. You can make mistakes
25:38
Speaker 5: and not coming to the right conclusions about cause of
25:41
Speaker 5: death and really manner of death. So those findings are important.
25:46
Speaker 5: In the case he used. It's evidence that he had
25:49
Speaker 5: a plan, that he was getting taking things, taking actions,
25:52
Speaker 5: to eliminate his wife light his house on fire. That
25:55
Speaker 5: would play in the role into it. As far as arson,
25:59
Speaker 5: the arson investigation would be helpful. All that would be
26:02
Speaker 5: given to the medical examiner because the autopsy would show
26:05
Speaker 5: the individual died in a fire. And that's all the
26:08
Speaker 5: information I would be able to tell you. Without that
26:11
Speaker 5: investigative information, I wouldn't be able to tell you whether
26:14
Speaker 5: it was a homicide suicide accident, not natural of course,
26:18
Speaker 5: because it's a fire. But again, investigative information is very important,
26:23
Speaker 5: and that is also probably why the Mississippi Medical Examiner
26:26
Speaker 5: is still taking their time, and even the DC Medical
26:29
Speaker 5: examiners said more investigative information.
26:32
Speaker 1: Again, both of the expert not made. But let me
26:35
Speaker 1: just cut you off right there, because the answer to
26:37
Speaker 1: that was yes, you do consider extrinsic evidence that said,
26:43
Speaker 1: listen to this.
26:44
Speaker 11: I don't think that Nolan would say, hey, bro, I'm
26:48
Speaker 11: sandwances grow on the island, y'all go ahead and go
26:51
Speaker 11: back like not even asking to get his.
26:53
Speaker 4: Phone back, you know what I mean. I've never known.
26:55
Speaker 11: Nolan to stay back wise friendsly if he's always been
26:59
Speaker 11: a guy where if you wrote what she's gonna come
27:01
Speaker 11: back with?
27:01
Speaker 5: You.
27:01
Speaker 4: That's always hard. It's been every single time.
27:04
Speaker 12: For Christine it said one place, but for them on
27:09
Speaker 12: Snapchat it showed another place. So that's the place we
27:14
Speaker 12: went to, and it showed that everybody that was in
27:17
Speaker 12: the house. It was like a lot of people there.
27:19
Speaker 12: So that's how we knew where to go to. We
27:22
Speaker 12: went there. They were all there. They were sitting there,
27:25
Speaker 12: lights off, watching TV.
27:26
Speaker 10: They did.
27:27
Speaker 12: They gave me the phone, but it took about fifteen
27:29
Speaker 12: minutes to get the phone because I even asked, I'm like,
27:32
Speaker 12: did y'all have to walk back to Horn Island to
27:35
Speaker 12: get the phone or like, where's the phone? Because it
27:37
Speaker 12: took so long when they say it was when whye
27:39
Speaker 12: told me it was in his truck, it took him
27:41
Speaker 12: so long to get the phone back to me.
27:43
Speaker 1: You are seeing friends of the Willses family speaking on
27:46
Speaker 1: Laura Coach's Live. Okay, I want to talk about the
27:49
Speaker 1: phone issue. And again, I don't want no one to
27:54
Speaker 1: be dead at all. I want this to be an
27:59
Speaker 1: actcidental death. But I am not turning a blind eye
28:05
Speaker 1: to concerning aspects of this investigation. In the end, it
28:11
Speaker 1: may turn out to be accidental. But why would you
28:15
Speaker 1: leave Nolan there. Why would you say your boat was
28:21
Speaker 1: sinking and then take multiple more trips in the boat
28:25
Speaker 1: that night? According to reports, So many of the facts
28:30
Speaker 1: are not lining up. But first let's start with a
28:33
Speaker 1: digital footprint. To Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter,
28:38
Speaker 1: what are they saying about the phone?
28:41
Speaker 13: Well, the family says that when they were able to
28:43
Speaker 13: finally retrieve the phone, Okay, they get there to get
28:47
Speaker 13: the phone back and have to wait fifteen minutes outside
28:53
Speaker 13: while the young people who had the phone for some
28:56
Speaker 13: reason took their time getting it to them. And when
28:59
Speaker 13: they did, when they god, no one.
29:01
Speaker 1: Will see that is the problem.
29:03
Speaker 6: Well, I'll see that was a problem that.
29:05
Speaker 1: Their teen boys. They got to go outside and they've
29:07
Speaker 1: got to get the phone out of the truck. What
29:08
Speaker 1: I see is the problem is the phone is there
29:12
Speaker 1: and he's somewhere else. Who leaves their phone behind? Who
29:17
Speaker 1: leaves their phone behind when they're on a desert island,
29:20
Speaker 1: stranded on an island, Why would you go without your phone?
29:23
Speaker 1: That's what sparked my interest.
29:25
Speaker 13: Dave mac I'm sorry, okay, I was. I misunderstood where
29:28
Speaker 13: you were headed with it. But here's the catcher is
29:30
Speaker 13: that Nolan was always taking pictures, Nancy. And so the
29:34
Speaker 13: part about this that really gets home is that a
29:38
Speaker 13: he always had his phone to take pictures and was
29:40
Speaker 13: always uploading. He was very active in those pictures being
29:44
Speaker 13: published online. And when the family actually got his phone,
29:48
Speaker 13: it had been cleaned. There was no there was no
29:52
Speaker 13: Instagram or Snapchat that that could have been removed.
29:56
Speaker 4: It was gone.
29:57
Speaker 1: Well wait, hold on, let me understand something, Dave Mac.
30:00
Speaker 1: You say there was no Snapchat, no insta, it was gone.
30:03
Speaker 1: You mean it was all gone or just gone.
30:06
Speaker 6: For that day, just for that day, Nancy.
30:11
Speaker 13: They suspect that based on that that other messages or
30:15
Speaker 13: media may have also been deleted.
30:18
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I saw the one here right now,
30:20
Speaker 1: Dave mag I'm going to an expert the knows more
30:22
Speaker 1: than me and you put together, Dave. Heather Barnheart is
30:26
Speaker 1: with US digital forensics expert with Celebrate and the Sans Institute,
30:31
Speaker 1: one of the digital forensic investigators in the Coburger case
30:34
Speaker 1: that crack that wide open. She is co author of
30:38
Speaker 1: Practical Mobile Forensics in its fourth edition, which means a
30:43
Speaker 1: lot of people are using it to teach and reading it.
30:46
Speaker 1: Her blog Smarter Forensics dot Com. I could go on,
30:50
Speaker 1: Heather Barnhart, thank you for being with us tonight. Number one,
30:54
Speaker 1: can you look at a phone and determine if items
30:59
Speaker 1: were lead?
31:01
Speaker 14: Absolutely? And Nancy, here's a huge thing to think about.
31:04
Speaker 14: I assume his phone had a password. There are certain
31:07
Speaker 14: things that you need the password to do, such as
31:09
Speaker 14: delete activity. But if you don't have a password and
31:13
Speaker 14: you pick up your phone, if you're touching the screen,
31:16
Speaker 14: that leaves a trace. If you're trying to power it off,
31:18
Speaker 14: that leaves a trace. So we should be able to
31:21
Speaker 14: see people without a password trying to actively interact with
31:24
Speaker 14: that phone as well as someone that has it.
31:27
Speaker 1: So how can you look at a phone, Heather Barnhart
31:30
Speaker 1: and determine the difference between no photos were taken that day? Also,
31:37
Speaker 1: can you take photos even if you don't have reception?
31:41
Speaker 1: I think you can, but I'm not an expert. How
31:44
Speaker 1: can you look at a phone and determine no photos
31:46
Speaker 1: were taken that day as opposed to items were deleted?
31:50
Speaker 1: Because can't you delete from the deleted file?
31:55
Speaker 10: Yes, you can do.
31:56
Speaker 14: You can do everything you just talked about, but again,
31:59
Speaker 14: all of that leaves a tree. So we would do
32:01
Speaker 14: a forensic acquisition, and that's really important here. Someone just
32:04
Speaker 14: looking in the phone, you can get a glimpse, but
32:07
Speaker 14: you can't see what's deleted and hiding below the surface.
32:10
Speaker 14: We need a forensic acquisition to do that. We can
32:12
Speaker 14: tell if it was just soft deleted, so like sitting
32:15
Speaker 14: in a trash can or a hard delete. So if
32:18
Speaker 14: you empty your trash on your phone and then you
32:20
Speaker 14: go and throw it into a dumpster and the trash
32:22
Speaker 14: is taken away, there is a log that tracks everything
32:26
Speaker 14: also with timestamps on when that activity occurred.
32:31
Speaker 1: Okay, I need that breaking down and regular people talk.
32:34
Speaker 1: We're not all experts. Could you say that so everybody
32:41
Speaker 1: can understand.
32:42
Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah.
32:43
Speaker 14: So let's say Nolan had an iPhone. He could take
32:47
Speaker 14: pictures without cell service at all. Cell service and Wi
32:50
Speaker 14: Fi do not matter. He could even post them to
32:54
Speaker 14: Instagram or to Snapchat and they'll sit in a temporary
32:57
Speaker 14: directory until he has service. Sometimes that face, but we
33:00
Speaker 14: still see that activity when we do forensics. If you
33:04
Speaker 14: delete a picture, Nancy, it sits in a recycle bin
33:07
Speaker 14: on your iPhone and you can recover that for about
33:10
Speaker 14: thirty to forty days. As a normal user if you
33:13
Speaker 14: empty that trash, it's not recoverable, but we doing forensics
33:19
Speaker 14: can still find it.
33:22
Speaker 1: Okay. So mean it's not recoverable for me, a lay person,
33:28
Speaker 1: but you can't recover it. Even the pictures, even the
33:31
Speaker 1: content of the text or snaps. You can recover that if.
33:36
Speaker 14: You get a full filesystem acquisition. And I realized that's
33:39
Speaker 14: really nerdy, But this is where acquisition and time to
33:42
Speaker 14: evidence matters. Deleted data exists and sits there for a
33:47
Speaker 14: period of time, So time to evidence is everything here.
33:52
Speaker 1: How long will it sit there?
33:54
Speaker 14: If it's an iPhone, it's a little bit different than
33:56
Speaker 14: Android iPhone. Apple's more forgiving, and you have about thirty
34:01
Speaker 14: With Android, you could have just a few days until
34:03
Speaker 14: location artifacts are purged.
34:05
Speaker 1: You mean okay, a few days? Do you mean one day,
34:08
Speaker 1: two days, ten days?
34:10
Speaker 14: It could be between one and seven on Android, but
34:13
Speaker 14: with the iPhone it's typically about seven to seven.
34:15
Speaker 1: We're safe, one we're not safe, okay. And what I'm
34:19
Speaker 1: referring to is if he did have an Android, can
34:22
Speaker 1: I recover if there were photos, snaps, texts deleted. That's
34:27
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to find out, because if somebody's deleting
34:30
Speaker 1: texts and emails and snaps and pictures. I got a problem.
34:34
Speaker 1: Why delete? That is my problem. Now here's my next question.
34:39
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm going to say it very inarticulately, but
34:41
Speaker 1: I think you'll know what I mean. Even if you
34:44
Speaker 1: cannot recover let's pretend it was an Android, even if
34:47
Speaker 1: you cannot recover the actual item itself. Can you see
34:52
Speaker 1: a log that says something was deleted?
34:57
Speaker 14: Yes, but it depends on the activity. So Snapchat will
35:01
Speaker 14: be tracked differently than a regular photo versus a regular
35:05
Speaker 14: text message. But deep die forensics will recover the truth.
35:11
Speaker 14: And you mentioned Brian Koberger. There was nothing. All that
35:15
Speaker 14: data was cleaned up and deleted, but the lack of
35:18
Speaker 14: data and the time on when it was removed was
35:21
Speaker 14: huge in the investigation, and that could be huge on
35:24
Speaker 14: proving the last time Nolan actually used his device versus
35:29
Speaker 14: people taking steps with it and walking around with it
35:31
Speaker 14: when it was out of his possession.
35:33
Speaker 1: Okay, number one, you're brilliant. Number two regarding snap being
35:44
Speaker 1: in one place, life three sixty being in another place,
35:49
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about that?
35:52
Speaker 14: Think of each application as having its own folder or
35:56
Speaker 14: a container, so all the things you do in that
35:59
Speaker 14: application exists in that container. A full deletion would be
36:03
Speaker 14: throwing that container away so nothing's there. Sporadic deletion would
36:09
Speaker 14: be removing one thing at a time, or deleting a
36:12
Speaker 14: most recent story or a post, And that stands out
36:16
Speaker 14: drastically to forensic examiners because it's uncommon behavior based upon
36:22
Speaker 14: what Nolan would typically do on his device.
36:24
Speaker 1: Straight out to Sam Krupen joining US investigative journalist store
36:27
Speaker 1: of Sampson's World, you have thoughts on the phone.
36:31
Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy. Here's the thing.
36:32
Speaker 9: Everybody keeps saying that you keep your phone on the
36:35
Speaker 9: boat when you go into the water.
36:36
Speaker 10: We can all agree that makes sense.
36:38
Speaker 9: But what doesn't make sense is when his friends leave him,
36:43
Speaker 9: he's not going to not get his phone to take
36:46
Speaker 9: with him. Who in their right mind would get stuck
36:50
Speaker 9: on an island without their phone. It makes zero sense
36:54
Speaker 9: to me at all. And then also the fact that
36:57
Speaker 9: all of his friends deleted all their social media accounts.
37:00
Speaker 9: They haven't spoken to anybody as far as I know,
37:03
Speaker 9: they didn't even go to the funeral. It makes people
37:06
Speaker 9: believe that they are hiding something.
37:12
Speaker 1: Back to probative evidence, he's got a point. Krupin has
37:17
Speaker 1: a point. I could see being out in the water
37:20
Speaker 1: without your phone, but it would be over my cold
37:23
Speaker 1: dead body that I would let a boat leave with
37:28
Speaker 1: my phone and my keys and my everything. Okay, listen
37:33
Speaker 1: to this.
37:34
Speaker 15: He said, Hey, miss Christine, have you seen Nolan or
37:37
Speaker 15: talk to Nolan? I said no, I thought he was
37:39
Speaker 15: with you guys. You know, as I know, nobody's talked
37:42
Speaker 15: to him. We left the island at I think he's
37:47
Speaker 15: at three pm, and he wanted to stay because he
37:50
Speaker 15: was talking to a girl named Katie.
37:54
Speaker 1: Katie is also missing.
37:56
Speaker 15: No one can find her in the explanation of no
38:00
Speaker 15: one knows this Katie like we've never met her type
38:03
Speaker 15: of deal.
38:04
Speaker 16: How would they know Katie's missing if they didn't even
38:08
Speaker 16: know who Katie was. So then Katie's sister chimed in.
38:12
Speaker 16: Katie made it home because she was on another boat
38:16
Speaker 16: and with different people. Katie assumed the friends telling him
38:22
Speaker 16: to get on the boat wouldn't have left him. So
38:25
Speaker 16: the question is where was Nolan after the interaction of Katie.
38:31
Speaker 16: Did Katie see him get on that boat?
38:34
Speaker 1: From our friends at NBC and the real detective there
38:38
Speaker 1: at the end, who said it so eloquently. More questions
38:43
Speaker 1: spinning out because of the phone. Why was it on
38:49
Speaker 1: the boat? Why did he let the boat leave without it?
38:51
Speaker 1: And speaking of the boat, listen to this though.
38:55
Speaker 16: First, at nine point fifty six a m. The boat
39:00
Speaker 16: leaves the original doc. It arrives at Horn Island at
39:03
Speaker 16: eleven fourteen, So at around four o'clock there is a
39:09
Speaker 16: call to the coastguard about the boat. NBC News got
39:14
Speaker 16: a hold of it.
39:15
Speaker 1: We're thinking and if everybody on board and good health otherwise?
39:19
Speaker 16: Yeah, Yeah, everybody's on board. So does that mean Nolan
39:25
Speaker 16: is on there? Who was on that boat?
39:29
Speaker 1: Okay? There are innocent explanations for that, and there are
39:33
Speaker 1: nefarious explanations for that, but I do know this. They
39:40
Speaker 1: stated the boat was sinking, but was it?
39:46
Speaker 16: At four point thirty one, the boat leaves Horn Island
39:49
Speaker 16: and it is towed approximately three miles and then the
39:54
Speaker 16: tow ends, so after three miles they go back to
39:58
Speaker 16: the original Okay, they arrive at five forty four pm.
40:05
Speaker 16: So it looks like this is where Horn Island is,
40:09
Speaker 16: and this is where the original dock is that I
40:12
Speaker 16: am referring to. I looked it up and El Camino
40:15
Speaker 16: real road is in Gulf Hills, Mississippi, which is right
40:20
Speaker 16: above Ocean springs. So I'm wondering if this is the
40:24
Speaker 16: house where they got the phone. The boat travels to
40:28
Speaker 16: Fort Bayou at six oh six, the boat returns to
40:32
Speaker 16: the original dock. Then from the original dock, the boat
40:36
Speaker 16: goes back to Fort Byou and then they go to
40:40
Speaker 16: the boat launch and it is put onto the trailer
40:43
Speaker 16: and moved.
40:44
Speaker 7: By the vehicle.
40:45
Speaker 16: Did they drop people off at the original dock, travel
40:49
Speaker 16: to Fort by you pick somebody up, and go back
40:53
Speaker 16: to that original dock and then from there Why was
40:58
Speaker 16: there an hour and thirteen minute time gap? This boat
41:02
Speaker 16: was sinking hours before and then they're just having it
41:06
Speaker 16: docked for an hour and thirteen minutes. You would think
41:09
Speaker 16: they'd want to get that boat out of the water asap.
41:13
Speaker 1: From the real talk detective, and she's got a point.
41:18
Speaker 1: Does nobody have a problem with that The boat is
41:20
Speaker 1: sinking when they call for help, and then they take
41:24
Speaker 1: the boat around for hours that night. Okay, Mobly, you
41:29
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that.
41:32
Speaker 8: I would want to know the nature of the malfunction
41:36
Speaker 8: of the boat and whether or not it was a
41:37
Speaker 8: paired I mean, that's what it comes.
41:39
Speaker 1: Down to explain.
41:41
Speaker 8: Please, I mean it's not complicated. I mean what it
41:43
Speaker 8: comes down to is what was the nature of the
41:46
Speaker 8: complication of the boat and was it repaired? And if
41:49
Speaker 8: it was prepared properly, then I don't see an issue
41:52
Speaker 8: with it. And I want to be clear, those are
41:53
Speaker 8: a legitimate questions. But again, as I allude to earlier,
41:57
Speaker 8: when you start taking bits and pieces of puzzle, start
42:00
Speaker 8: putting them out there without context death, when you start
42:03
Speaker 8: spreading this information, I would assume.
42:06
Speaker 1: Well, you're right, But I certainly do not believe that
42:09
Speaker 1: this investigation needs to be shut down because there are
42:14
Speaker 1: potential innocent explanations. You don't just end an investigation because
42:21
Speaker 1: it could all be explained away. And I'm not saying
42:24
Speaker 1: his friends aren't responsible or not responsible, because I don't know.
42:30
Speaker 1: Is it true Crouping that many of the people there
42:35
Speaker 1: that day have lawyered up and they're not talking. Is
42:38
Speaker 1: that true? Or have they, unbeknownst to me, have they
42:40
Speaker 1: cooperated and spoken to authorities.
42:44
Speaker 10: I mean, from what we've seen, that was what happened.
42:47
Speaker 9: They all deleted their social media accounts right away, they
42:51
Speaker 9: lawyered up, so it seems as though they've been advised.
42:54
Speaker 10: And here's a big question for me.
42:56
Speaker 9: Nancy was the company that allegedly got the call that
43:00
Speaker 9: they were in distress, and their official statement was before
43:04
Speaker 9: assistance was rendered, the vessel owner advised that c Tow
43:08
Speaker 9: was no longer needed because help had already been obtained.
43:11
Speaker 9: C toe's involvement concluded at that point.
43:15
Speaker 1: C TOE everybody is two words sea to ow. They
43:21
Speaker 1: come and render aid and haul in, you know, tug
43:26
Speaker 1: in boats ships that need help. Okay, hold on, have
43:30
Speaker 1: the barnheart with me. Digital forensics expert, author co author
43:33
Speaker 1: of Practical Mobile Forensics forth Edition. What about GPS? What
43:38
Speaker 1: can I learn from the GPS on that boat? Because
43:40
Speaker 1: I want to know his.
43:42
Speaker 14: Phone is on the boat, it is tracking every location
43:46
Speaker 14: that the boat went to. I would also be curious
43:49
Speaker 14: on the last time the phone was unlocked, the last steps,
43:52
Speaker 14: even if it's not unlocked, last steps will be tracked
43:55
Speaker 14: in last general usage, because we may be able to
43:58
Speaker 14: say the last time that Nolan was on his device
44:02
Speaker 14: and physically using it, which would be really helpful in
44:05
Speaker 14: this investigation.
44:06
Speaker 1: Straight out to Brian Trasher, joining US Vice President Unit
44:09
Speaker 1: of Cajun Navy who participated in the search for Nolan.
44:13
Speaker 1: A couple of questions. What can you tell me about
44:14
Speaker 1: GPS on boats.
44:15
Speaker 6: Brian, Yeah, I mean they ouprat just like any other
44:18
Speaker 6: kind of GPS.
44:20
Speaker 7: They get fed from satellites and they keep archives of
44:26
Speaker 7: logs and trips and things like that. A couple of
44:28
Speaker 7: things I want to point out there, Nancy, because I'm
44:30
Speaker 7: probably the only person on the panel that's been to
44:31
Speaker 7: Horn Island. You know, they said going back to the
44:34
Speaker 7: phone and possible deleted messages and all that. When his
44:37
Speaker 7: mother at first said she thought that messages had been deleted,
44:40
Speaker 7: she later clarified that what she was talking about. She
44:43
Speaker 7: thought it was odd that Nolan had not done any snapchats,
44:47
Speaker 7: which was.
44:48
Speaker 6: His favorite app.
44:49
Speaker 7: Presumably so the reason why he didn't do any snapchats
44:52
Speaker 7: because he didn't have a signal. It's very hard to
44:54
Speaker 7: get a cell phone signal on hard on Horn Island,
44:56
Speaker 7: and Snapchat doesn't upload if you don't have a signal.
44:59
Speaker 6: You know what I told, wants to check his camera roll.
45:01
Speaker 7: If he wasn't able to upload on his app, maybe
45:03
Speaker 7: he just took pictures with his regular camera and saved
45:05
Speaker 7: it to his camera roll see if there's any pictures
45:08
Speaker 7: on there.
45:08
Speaker 6: But there's no evidence suggest.
45:10
Speaker 7: That anybody went in and deleted any any text messages
45:13
Speaker 7: or anything like that that day. So I just want
45:16
Speaker 7: to We've been fighting so much information out there is
45:18
Speaker 7: don't want to want to help spread it by by
45:20
Speaker 7: not addressing that.
45:22
Speaker 1: Brian Treisher, you and I go back a long way
45:24
Speaker 1: with your involvement with United Cage and Navy. I only
45:27
Speaker 1: have one question for you. Are you a digital forensics expert?
45:32
Speaker 4: Oh?
45:32
Speaker 6: No, absolutely not.
45:34
Speaker 1: No further questions, thank you. Uh, Brian Traisher, let me
45:38
Speaker 1: talk about something that you do know about, which includes
45:41
Speaker 1: boat GPS. What exactly last time for tonight, what exactly
45:50
Speaker 1: was seen when Nolan's body was found? Every detail?
45:58
Speaker 7: Okay, So the he was right at the shore line,
46:01
Speaker 7: right where a water meets the sand. He was laying
46:05
Speaker 7: face down, and like I said earlier, the swim trunks
46:09
Speaker 7: that were described and photographed that he was photographed in
46:12
Speaker 7: the day he died, the day he presumably died, where
46:16
Speaker 7: he was still wearing did not appear to be wearing
46:18
Speaker 7: shoes or a shirt. And you have face down and
46:21
Speaker 7: there were law enforcement kind of standing all around him,
46:25
Speaker 7: you know, just like whatever they were doing their jobs.
46:27
Speaker 7: I'm sure, but that is what I saw from the air.
46:30
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it. Let's see his face down. His
46:33
Speaker 1: left foot is on top of what looks to be
46:36
Speaker 1: some kelp that has washed ashore. He looks almost as
46:40
Speaker 1: if he's sleeping. He looks to he is face down.
46:45
Speaker 1: He's wearing At first it appeared to be a shirt.
46:48
Speaker 1: He's not wearing a shirt. Upon zooming in on it.
46:51
Speaker 1: He's barefoot. I don't see anything on his wrists or arms,
46:55
Speaker 1: such as you know, a watch. I don't see that.
46:58
Speaker 1: It looks to me like he's sleeping on his stomach,
47:02
Speaker 1: with his right leg a little bent outward and his
47:05
Speaker 1: left leg outward as well, like he's asleep on a mattress.
47:09
Speaker 1: His left arm is out and down like he's a
47:12
Speaker 1: stomach sleeper. And it looks to me like his head
47:15
Speaker 1: is turned to one way into the sand. Now, given
47:19
Speaker 1: that position, I see no way that blood could have
47:23
Speaker 1: pulled in the back of his neck. He is absolutely
47:27
Speaker 1: face down. But that is another argument for doctor Kendall
47:31
Speaker 1: Crowns and myself for another night. This is what we
47:36
Speaker 1: know tonight, what we are learning from the second and
47:41
Speaker 1: independent autopsy is we know nothing, but Crump did hit
47:49
Speaker 1: the nail on the head. As it relates to this,
47:53
Speaker 1: the critical moment is when and how Nolan wails into
48:00
Speaker 1: the water.
48:02
Speaker 3: At the time of this report, this forensic pathologist does
48:08
Speaker 3: not know the condition of Nolan Wells.
48:13
Speaker 4: He did not know whether.
48:14
Speaker 3: He was conscious or unconscious when he entered the water.
48:22
Speaker 4: He said that would be significant.
48:25
Speaker 3: He said he did not know whether he was forced
48:29
Speaker 3: into the water or unforced into the water.
48:34
Speaker 4: He said that would be significant.
48:37
Speaker 3: So he said the condition of Nolan Wells before he
48:40
Speaker 3: entered the water would.
48:42
Speaker 4: Be the crux of the matter.
48:44
Speaker 3: It would be of utmost importance to being able to
48:49
Speaker 3: determine a cause and manner of death.
48:54
Speaker 1: How did Nolan Wells end up in the water. How
49:01
Speaker 1: is there so much confusion about who was with him last?
49:07
Speaker 1: Why can't I identify how everybody in that crowded area
49:13
Speaker 1: on Horn Island left and what left him there standing
49:16
Speaker 1: waving his arms, don't weave. It's not making sense, and
49:21
Speaker 1: we are not resting until it does make sense. Listen.
49:29
Speaker 17: He had a deep love for the Lord and an
49:32
Speaker 17: unwavering faith that was evident in the way he lived
49:36
Speaker 17: his life. As much as our hearts are broken, we
49:40
Speaker 17: find peace in knowing that our son is resting in
49:42
Speaker 17: the arms of the Lord.
49:47
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding the
49:50
Speaker 1: death of this young star athlete, Nolan Wells Dial two
49:56
Speaker 1: two eight seven six nine three zero six three two
50:01
Speaker 1: two eight seven sixty nine three zero six three, we
50:06
Speaker 1: remember American Hero Officer Adam Ashworth, Saint George P. D
50:11
Speaker 1: Utah passing away in the line of duty, leaving behind
50:15
Speaker 1: wife Bobby and three beautiful children, Hannah, Mattison and Jackson.
50:22
Speaker 1: American Hero Officer Adam Ashworth. Thank you to our guest,
50:27
Speaker 1: but especially to you being with us tonight. Nancy Gray
50:30
Speaker 1: signing off for tonight. I'll see tomorrow night, and until then,
50:33
Speaker 1: good night friend,