Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / PCOS, false alarms, COVID babies, and three hospital births

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PCOS, false alarms, COVID babies, and three hospital births · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where MARE comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. MARE was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. MARE brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. MARE believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mare-4EveryChapter.com. That's Mare M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. Merelise Wilson: like, hello and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Marylis Wilson. And today I have Melanie Green with me. Hello. Hi. It's so great to be here. It's so good to see you. me. Oh my gosh. I'm so happy you're doing this with me. Yeah. It's been, it's so funny. Like it's been so fun to reconnect with so many people that I haven't seen in so many years and to think about like how we met and how old we were when we met, which was like 20 for me and 18 for you or something. like that. And now here we are talking about babies and... Multiple babies. You have three. Yes. Like, it's just wild. Yeah, I think you might not remember this, but I think the last time I saw you... was at Lenox Mall. I like ran into you and your then fiance. Really? Yes. That was a long time ago. I years ago, I ran into you just really quick at the mall. And it's funny to think about now, like no one even goes to malls. No, I know. Like the activity we were doing is basically prehistoric and it's been so long since then. I think my husband and I had just gotten married. Y'all were about to get married. I was going to say, because we, this June will be 11 years. So. Okay. Yeah. 11. Oh my gosh. So right around the same time. It's really been that long since I've seen you. That's crazy. Wow. Okay then. Well hello. Hello. It's to be back and yeah just reconnecting like with you and kind of brings you back to the college days. I feel like so much has changed, but at the same time, so much hasn't, which is nice. For sure, for sure. And like we said, you've got three kids now, two girls, one boy. do. Yeah. Two girls. They're five and a half and three and a half. And then a little boy, Huey, who is 18 months. I love that name. Is it short for anything? He's just Huey. Yeah, just Huey. But we all call him Huey. So cute. He's everyone's favorite, of course. Very spoiled by his sisters. The baby and the boy. Oh, man. Yes. And then my older two are Margot and Ellen. And they are 22 months apart, thick as thieves, best friends. They're only going to be one year apart in school, which is going to be really fun. Yes. Because they're just basically inseparable right now, which is awesome. I hope it stays that way. I'm sure. I so, too. I'm sure it'll go through a teenage girl. Oh, I definitely have to remind them from time to time. You guys are best friends. You're on the same team. You're on the same thing. You'll be best friends forever Like work out who gets the doll right now. Like you can work it out. You're our best friends. Yes. So oh So you said Marco is five and a half. Mm-hmm. And so I guess let's start with her birth story. Like yeah So if you do the math five and a half, she was born November of 2020. Oh gosh, which means yeah, which means early March of 2020 is when we found out we were expecting her and we were living so living at L'Anne and Al but we were living in Chicago at that time. My husband was in business school in Evanston and I had started going to an OB practice there because we really wanted to start trying to have a family, but I have PCOS and so there just wasn't a lot to try, right? And so I started going to this OB. She helped me confirm that diagnosis that was always just sort of a swag from OBs in the past. They're like, well, you have all these things. You probably have PCOS, but like, we don't really know how to test for it. You know, there's no, there's nothing we can do about it except put you on birth control, which is fine until you. want to have children and that medicine no longer makes sense. So just had a really wonderful experience with this OB in Evanston and she actually I feel like showed me the importance of having a good doctor. Like I hadn't really cared or even thought about the fact that maybe I didn't really click with my OB back in Atlanta. And working with her, her name was Dr. Keane, she was so amazing that I was like, okay, whatever I do, I'm changing practices when I move back. I don't care if that means I have to change hospitals or drive super far. Like I'm not going back to my old practice. And... she actually helped me find a new OB back in Atlanta, because we knew we'd be moving back around midway through the pregnancy. going back to when, you know, before I was pregnant, I had just been kind of working with her, working on this like... plan to, you have to go through all this metabolic testing and all these things when you have PCOS before you start any kind of fertility medication. I had met, think, twice with a fertility specialist's reproductive doctor. So this is like early March 2020. There's also a little bit going on in the news with this virus that seems just like a cold. Everyone's freaking out. No one in the US is fine, whatever. It must have been like early March. I started feeling just like really funny Yeah, weird symptoms extreme body sensitivity like the water from the shower hurt. Yeah, and was like that is really weird I wonder if I'm pregnant so I took a pregnancy test and it was negative, huh, but I bought a box of three and I was like, you know, that's fine I'm not expecting to be able to get pregnant like wasn't expecting to be it must be just something weird going on whatever week later I still like felt really funny and took another pregnancy test and it was negative again. I'm traveling for work a lot during this time like back and forth we had friends visiting us like it was kind of a busy time and then another week went by and I still just like felt all of this crazy extreme sensitivity. again, the shower water hurt. I was starting to feel really tired. It was like, in hindsight, strong pregnancy symptoms. It was really weird that those first two tests were negative, honestly. Was your period late? Or did you not know? Because it was your cycle weird because of PCOS? I guess. But at that point, for me to have a period, was taking the doctor. If you don't have a period and you're seeing an OB regularly, they're going to give you, I think it's It's like a short course of progesterone that you take just to make a period happen. Yeah. Beyond that, there was nothing I was tracking or could track. Cause it was like, every 40 to 50 days I would, the OB would say, okay, go pick up the prescription and you take it for a few days. And it makes it happen. Cause that helps to decrease risk of like, you know, all the things that can go wrong when you don't ever have periods you're supposed to. So, again, not like fertility medication, but it, guess at some point, like tricked my body into ovulating. Cause that third test was just sitting in that box and I was sitting on the couch. it was March 11th. 2020 my husband had told me I think was the day before the NBA had like decided to cancel their season and it was like, okay This is getting real whatever's going on whatever the spring break was the next week and we were supposed to go on this huge trip to Patagonia with friends Like backpacking all this fun stuff and we're so excited and we started hearing about international flights getting canceled and it's like, okay Are we gonna get to go on our trip? Yeah, what's going on? Everything was up in air and I was just sitting there on the couch My husband was actually still sleeping I was up and I was like praying. I was like God You know, we really need this trip. We really want to have children. And then after we have children, we're never going to be able to go anywhere again. Like, we have to go on this trip. And I heard this voice in my head that was so clear. And it said, something better is coming. And in my head, that was, we're going to go on the trip and get a upgrade to first class. something crazy is going to happen or whatever. I couldn't even see past this little backpacking trip, which Obviously, in hindsight, newsflash like never happened. No one left the country. I don't even think we left like Lake Michigan that week. We stayed local. But I was sitting on couch, heard this voice, and something prompted me to just go ahead and like take that last pregnancy test so I could throw away the box. And it was positive, which was like such a miracle. And I remember just being so excited and then calling the OB and she was like, Really? Yeah. I like, yeah, I think so. but I've been feeling symptoms for a couple of weeks and she said, okay, come on in. And so I, I was like only on a bike that time we didn't have a car. so I rode my little bike to the doctor's office in March, which in Chicago was quite chilly. you know, everyone's wearing masks. It's like, I guess. I guess maybe I should wear one. It was just such a weird time. a weird time. But I was thankful that because of PCOS and everything, I got to have a couple really early ultrasounds. There was some up and down things at the beginning and got to have some early ultrasounds that my husband was able to come to because then he couldn't come to any of the ultrasounds the rest of the pregnancy, obviously. it was like this true. I I look at Margot all the time and think of her as my little miracle baby. don't know how we got her. but I'm so glad we did. She was just there. She was the something better that came. And then we moved back to Atlanta midway through the pregnancy. And I changed doctors per the recommendation of my OB in Chicago and started going to a new doctor here in Atlanta to carry me through 20 weeks to the end. And so if you could tell also everyone, just taking a little bit of a step back, with PCOS, for those that don't know, it can impact your fertility, correct? Yes. PCOS, that's a great question. It's one of those things that if you have it, you know all about it. But then if you don't, you're like, what even is that? I think like 10 to 20 % of women have it. It's relatively very common. But there's not a lot of... There's not a lot of awareness or like treatment or anything for it. Its symptoms are so varied. And a lot of times it's a diagnosis of elimination where they eliminate, okay, you're not having periods or your hormone levels are X, Y, Z. You aren't all these other things. So you must just have PCOS. And the treatment for it is birth control, which great, but... If you're trying to have a family, that does you no good. And it stands for polycystic ovarian syndrome, which is where your, I think, I'm not a doctor, but I think your eggs stay in your ovary. They're released, but they don't always like. They stay in your ovary and they form a little ring. When you get an ultrasound of a PCOS ovary, which I have done, you can see them all. They're like little bubbles. They're called like a string of pearls in your ovary. I guess they don't come down. They don't drop. They don't drop. Which is why don't have a period. Right. Which obviously makes it really hard to get pregnant. yeah, not a lot of treatment for it. Symptoms vary so wildly. between women who have it. For some women, their PCOS can be treated with lifestyle changes. Mine was treated with pregnancy. I have not dealt with it since. Wow. Yeah. Like it cleared things out. Body is totally changed. That's amazing. other two kids were one hit wonders. Wow. Like no trouble conceiving at all. That's absolutely incredible. Yeah. I mean, I know. And now my body is like right as rain. my gosh. That's so fascinating. I've never heard that. But you know, like we were kind of joking before we started recording, like. so much changes physically in your body, like externally and internally. I'm like saying, wow. But I'm also like, of course it cured your PCOS because pregnancy is wild. Yeah. You never know what's going to happen. I don't know if it's the hormones or what. I actually just had an annual exam and I talked to my doctor about that because I was like, I don't really feel like I need to come to these. I've been spending a lot of time with you the last five years. Every two to five years is OK, right? And she was like, yeah, I mean. It's really cool that you don't seem to have PCOS anymore. it comes back, let me know. mean, she was kind of amazed by it as well. Again, I just don't think there's a whole lot that they know about really what causes it. or really how to treat it, especially if you have it and don't exhibit some of the normal PCOS related symptoms. Right, because there's no cure. It's just treatment. Yeah, it's just like a thing you have. OK, so a little Miss Miracle, Margot. Yeah. You guys moved back to Atlanta. We did, yeah. So moved back to Atlanta, peak COVID time. thankfully, I feel like. our hospital was really reasonable and there was never, I never had the fear of my husband not being able to attend the birth with me. They even told me that while they would test me for COVID so that they would know how to treat me, they wouldn't even bother testing him. So there was like never a worry that he would not be able to come. I had my husband like quarantined and this was in like, and this was, we gave birth in early 2021 or mid 2021. So like even later, think though, was, But I mean like I had him quarantined. before like two weeks before my due date because I was like if I go into labor early and you're not like you have to be there you know so that's amazing that your hospital was at Piedmont yeah we at Piedmont yeah they were really reasonable about And they assured me, they were like, and even if you have COVID, we will give you and your baby care. Do not worry. It should go without saying. It's more like we need to know how to treat you also as COVID patient and have the correct protocol. So while it was a bummer that he couldn't come to. you know, like my 20 week scan and things like that. We FaceTimed him in and you know, we were looking at the baby on the screen and he was looking at it on a screen on the screen. So it was kind of the same. I tried to have a good attitude about it. I mean, we were just so thankful to have her because I mean, I remember when COVID hit, was like all the reproductive people I had been seeing sent emails like, hey, all treatments are on pause, everything paused. So to have been able to get pregnant during that time was just such a blessing. But I stayed, with Margo, I stayed kind of small, like first baby, pretty active person, again, just didn't get like super big and... I just remember by, I don't know, by like 36 weeks, I was really starting to feel like, wow, this is a heavy, heavy bowling ball. But I didn't feel like I ever looked that big. Like, OK, but I've got some time to grow. And we went on a little baby moon to Charleston. I think I was like 35, 36 weeks. Came back. And I just remember, again, you don't really know with your first. You don't really know what to expect with birth. People tell you, and you're like, OK, a really bad cramp like how do I know when the contractions start yeah what is what is water breaking like right what mucus plug like ew how am gonna know what that is? And it's different for everyone like your water might break in like an extraordinarily narrowly dramatic fashion or it might be a trickle and like contractions feel different it's yeah it's so hard to know until you've been through it yeah 30, around, again, around 36 weeks, my husband and I went to Trader Joe's and at that time, COVID, you had to line up outside. that's right. Do you remember this? Yes, I remember very clearly at Trader was like a one-in-one-out thing. And there was a long line. It was a Saturday. And I just remember looking at the line and being like, Tucker, I don't think I can stand in that line. Like, I'm going to wait in the car and I'll just watch you. And when you get close to the front, I'll come. And that was the first moment I remember feeling like, OK. I have felt fine. I no longer feel fine. Like something is going on. And then the next night, long walk before dinner, had dinner, you know, back in the day pre-kids, had dinner at like, I don't know, 730, eight o'clock. Yeah. Carbonara and. I'm sitting in our kitchen and my water completely broke, heard the pop, thought, what was that? And then felt it. And it was like, gush, movie theater, water break. Huge. And I was 36 weeks and six days. And I thought, that's what that is. Well, at first, you think, did I just pee on myself? But no, it's water breaking. Although valid at that stage of pregnancy. I called the doctor because I thought, you know, I think this means that the baby might come soon. But I still wasn't even sure. And she was like, you mean your water really broke? And I said, yeah, like everywhere I had to get towels. She was like, well, is your backpack? And I said, no. And the doctor was like, well, Melanie, you're having a baby tonight. So take your time. But get your backpack and come to the hospital. And I remember asking, do I have time to take a shower? Like, ew. And she said, yes, no rush. If contractions haven't started, you probably still have some time, but like take a shower, get your bag packed, get to the hospital. So we're kind of scrambling to get everything together. Like I'm normally very prepared and I was not prepared. I mean, I just felt like I had so much longer to go. get to the hospital and... I mean, I really only started barely feeling contractions like in the car. Like, maybe that's what that is. OK. And then the wheels start turning like, OK, maybe yesterday at Trader Joe's, I was having Braxton Hicks. Like, it was really, I was feeling lots of pressure everywhere and tightness. OK. And it was all kind of coming together. And then again, I guess I should have said this before, but because of COVID, I took one breastfeeding class, like virtually. Such a waste of time. Yeah. Like, no offense to these sweet people trying to do their best for the expectant mothers. But the virtual stuff was not helpful. We didn't take a tour. We couldn't take a tour of the hospital. I didn't take a single birth class or anything. The only thing I did was breastfeeding. And it was still pretty useless. So I came in really just ready to. I didn't really have a birth plan. It was like, I'm just going to do what they tell me, but I'm going to try to labor without an epidural as long as possible because I've heard they use a big needle and I was scared. still scared of needles. But yeah, so labored as long as possible. Couldn't handle it anymore. Got an epidural. Labor slows way down, of course. And then it took a very, very long time. So do you remember the hospital? Oh, go ahead. Do remember how many centimeters you were when you got the epidural? Good question. By the time I got to the hospital, I think I was only like two or three. It was really low. And it was one of those like, oh, two or three. Is that close? Right. It's like, no, you have to be 10. I I really came in like just kind of. Eyes wide open, not super prepared at all. From the time I got there, which was probably around 10, Margo was not born until 8.30 the next morning. OK, it's almost 12 hours. Yeah, so it was about 12 hours. Actually, I think my water broke. We looked back at our phones. I remember this. My water broke at like 8.26. OK. Or that's when I called the doctor, which is right around my water broke. And then Margo was born at like 8.24. I mean, it was almost 12 hours to pretty quick for first baby. Yeah. And all my other births were right around 12 hours, ironically. towards the end, I think this is typical with first babies. There's a lot of pushing. So by 6 AM, there's a shift change. I'm pushing. I kind of labored all night, then after the epidural, it was a lot more chill and it was just a lot of waiting at that point. could feel what was going on. It was a good epidural, but not a lot I could do in terms of movement or anything. We were napping, we were up, we were getting checked. Not a lot of progress, very, very slow. then finally around six, I guess it have been like 6.30, the doctor said, okay, it's time to push. And pushed and pushed and pushed. And then that was truly the hardest thing I've ever done. I just remember, I mean, looking at the clock on the wall, like, how long is this going to take? How many more contractions? Watching the monitor, like, OK, I can feel a contraction coming. Is it time to do it again? And I remember the doctor saying, like, no, you probably need a break. You've been pushing so much. Let's take a break. But I was so determined. And then in the end, they started getting a little nervous about Margo's heart rate going in and out, probably because she was in severe stress. Right. asked if I would be willing to use the vacuum. Yeah. I was like, absolutely. Yeah. Whatever it takes to get her out. And so then finally, after two hours of pushing, one little vacuum, squeeze, suck, I don't know. Yeah. Got her head out. And then she was there. And it was great. So like relatively straightforward, very, I feel like very typical birth, like dramatic water break. 12 hours later, the baby is here. And then did you have any tears or anything? Yes. I had a tear. got stitched up pretty quickly. Always so, those like first few hours after you have a baby are like just so alarming when you think about what has just happened and you like don't even want to look, you know, you're like, have stitches. That just came out. Out of me. I know. It's crazy. What? And then your stomach feels so So weird. And then you start to feel all the contractions when you're nursing. Yes. baby or your your uterus coming back together and it was just It's so it's so much. Yeah, especially for your first time and you know one tells you about like Literally any of that. I know it's crazy. You have to like seek it out if you want it I did not know you would like deliver the placenta. Oh, really? I had no idea. Yeah, like really like knew nothing like what oh, there's more to this process But one one nice thing about the time it took that she was officially 37 weeks at the hospital, if they're pre 37 weeks, that's preterm. So they'll go to the NICU and get. checked out. while she was on the smaller side, she wasn't small for being a 37 week baby. she was technically full term. So we made it out of there much easier than if she had been preterm. That's so funny. I hadn't thought about that. But yep, she got right over the line. Yes, we did. Just a few hours in. Do you remember when you were pushing for so long, what position were you in? Were you kind of laying down? Just laying down. Yeah, that's like. all you can do when your legs are completely numb. And so you were like totally numb at that Totally, yeah. I could like feel what was going on, but there's no way I could have like really rolled over. I I would have to have three people assist me. You know, it was, I was stuck. Yeah. I don't know if it was because I had had the epidural in for six hours at that point or what, but my epidural did not wear off for, I don't know, eight, 10 hours. Really? So I was just stuck sitting in the hospital bed for so long. catheter, everything. yeah. Full shebang. For so long. And the back pain from that was Unbelievable. those first couple of weeks, I was not taking Advil and Tylenol for pelvic pain. It was all for back pain. Oh my gosh. Finally, after about a month, the back pain went away. Wow. And then for several more months, I could still feel this sharp sting where the epidural went in. Interesting. Just like weird pain. Wow. Yeah. that was, and again, I don't know if it's my, I don't know why it was that way. don't know of many people who have felt that. did some googling and realized that, yeah, some people say 40 years later they can still feel where their epidural went. And I'm like, well, epidurals aren't only for birth. People use them for all kinds of things. So is that just me? Is it a birth thing? What happened? But I was pretty determined after that. Just in my head, was like, OK, future births, I don't want to do that again not because I felt like any sort of, I don't know, spiritual connection to not having a medicated birth, but more from the just logistical back pain. also, feel like when you can, after you have a baby, when you can get up and walk around and get yourself to the bathroom and walk around the room and put on a different outfit, you just feel so much better. Yes, you get back to yourself quicker. Yes, and that was so important. And just being stuck in catheter and everything for so long made me feel really just, I don't know, scared. Like, OK, I can't even move. How am going to go home in 12 hours with the baby? I can't even walk to the bathroom. I imagine it feels so much more like you're a hospital patient rather than just a mom who just gave birth. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yes. Continuous monitoring, having to have them help me into wheelchairs to get around. Yeah, it was like a very long time and maybe that is normal. I don't know. Maybe other people feel that way with epidurals, but did not wear off for a long time. No, that's, I think that's more on the unusual side from what I've heard. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So. brutal. But other than that, you we were obviously very thankful that Margot was there and otherwise it was like a very uncomplicated like. Postpartum. Easier birth. Postpartum was very... I think you just go through it for the first time and you really don't know what to expect. I was really determined to breastfeed and that first week, just to get her out of the hospital, we were having to supplement with formula because she wasn't getting enough. I my milk didn't come in until the fifth or sixth day. Mine is always slow like that too. Which, yeah, it's normal, especially for your first. It's just not gonna come in right away. And in hindsight, I remember being so stressed about it. It was totally fine. Yeah, she had formula and then once my milk came in we stopped and she had enough and it's fine And then I nursed her until she was one. Yeah, I'm like in hindsight. Why did I stress out about? There's a little bit of formula Yeah, which got us out of the hospital. So I know which was great I know where they trying to get her to produce a wet diaper. Is that what? Yes we had the same problem with my with my son was I was only feeding him colostrum. And in hindsight, he didn't have a good latch. And so he wasn't getting enough. So he wasn't producing enough wet diapers. And so they were like, we really need him to produce more wet diapers if he's going to leave. And can we get him a little formula? And it's like, sure. Again, it's not going to hurt them. No. And it's not going to hurt your breastfeeding journey to like, yeah. No. It definitely does not have to. And yeah, once everything started working and my milk came in and she got a little bigger and more. you know, I got a little stronger and better at kind of figuring out how to hold her and how to do it. Everything was fine. And I wish I could go back and like not freak out not a freaked out so much, but that's why you have more births. Yeah. Try to do it right the second or the third time and make different mistakes, but you at least get another chance. you learn a little bit each time. Yeah. For sure. So you said they're 22 months apart. you, how, how old was Margo when you got pregnant with? Your second. little over, or she would have been like right around a year. So I think there may have been like a one to two week gap between being done nursing and getting pregnant again. And I think I mentioned this before, but, after I had Margo, it seemed like my PCOS was magically cured. So everything was. I mean, for the first time in my entire life, I started having periods every month. Wow. Or every 32 days, maybe. yeah, had never even like, I mean, that was like new to me to have to deal with it every Yeah, you were like, this is the in the ass in a different kind of way. Yeah, like how much tampons do have to buy? And I have to make sure I have them at all times? I truly never really had to even like deal with it that much. When we realized, OK, it's nice to have kids two or three years apart. Now would be a good time to probably start thinking about trying. We don't know how long this is going to take. I've never really tracked anything super carefully before. I did start using a basal thermometer and tracking my cycles a little more carefully. And basically, the first time we really thoughtfully tried to have a baby. Couple of weeks later, I was late and I could not believe it. Like could not believe it. Got some pregnancy tests, did not even tell my husband I was taking them because I was like, there's just no way it was that easy. And sure enough, little Ellen was on her way. We found out New Year's Eve of, I guess it would have been 2021. because I remember going out to hang out with neighbors in the street that evening and I remember was passing around champagne and I kind of just looked at it like, I'm pregnant again. I can't do that. Can't do that. Like, whoa, that happened quick. sip. Yeah, so really, yeah, super thankful for that, obviously. And then excited to just kind of go back to... my same doctor that I had met when I was like 20 weeks pregnant with Margo. She was wonderful. Super excited for me. And I guess one thing I failed to mention is I do go to like a large hospital practice. So you're almost not, almost never going to actually be delivered by your doctor, but it's a great, it was a great team of women. And I had gotten to know like all of the doctors kind of on the appointment rounds and felt really comfortable with like whoever was there. So I always had the most appointments with my doctor, but she has actually never delivered any of my kids, but I've always seen her at least once, like in the hospital with all of them. So. the pregnancy with her was... relatively, I think very similar to my pregnancy with Margot. Not a ton of like nausea symptoms or nothing, nothing super extreme again, relatively easy pregnancies. So was kind of expecting the births to be pretty similar. And so by 36, 37 weeks, I was working then I was telling my work team like, Hey, you know, I delivered Margo early, just as a heads up. I every day that I know you've probably been through this, the inbox is cleared. Everything has been kind of settled and passed off. Your colleague has the latest version of whatever just in case you fall off the face of the earth and you're not coming back to work. My out of office was ready. mean, none of this was ready for Margo at all. And so I had it all ready. And then 38 weeks, I came to my appointment and you know. Still nothing. I thought about asking to get checked and I didn't just, that's always like not very comfortable. So I was, I remember asking the doctor like, do you think I need to get checked? And she was like, Not if you don't want to. mean, I'll check you if you want. But if you don't feel like you're about to have a baby, you're probably not. So don't worry about it. The only symptom I had really with her that was different from Margaret was really bad sciatica pain. that too. I just got a memory pain. It's so bad. It's so bad. With Ellen, it started probably around 28, 30 weeks. And driving was the worst. I had a really long drive to work and to daycare. And by the time I got out of the car, I would be like, like in tears, my leg would be numb. was awful. Did you ever see a chiropractor? I did with my third. Yeah. Yeah. And it was quite helpful. Yes. For about two weeks. and then wears off and then you're supposed to go again. It was so funny how it really only lasts like the treatments or the adjustments that they do help for just a short amount of time. best cure is to just have the baby. Have the baby. So with Ellen, I was so ready to have the baby, have her and be done with being pregnant. you mentioned that, okay, I know with Margot you didn't have like any sort of birth plan. No. But you did mention that after Margot's birth, you were in interested in maybe like going with like a more natural, like lower intervention, maybe no epidural birth for your second. So throughout Ellen's pregnancy, were you starting to like think about that or look into anything related to that or were you just kind of gonna like see how it went? I feel like in hindsight, again, in hindsight, I wish I'd done more, but I kind of just like. watched some videos on YouTube and tried to wing it. And that was still the plan or the goal. Yes. I did have a birth plan of like, you know, this is what I want for me and my baby in terms of, you know, the golden hour and things like that. after I did all that, I remember showing it to the doctor and she was like, well, that's like what we do. Yeah. I okay, great. Yeah. Like, good. It's so good to have it though, because like not every hospital is the same and you know, right. Yeah. Right. Which is, yeah. And I think too, with Margo being so kind of early and like borderline preterm, while I was able to hold her right away, they did take her away. I guess I should go back to that. did kind of take her, scoot her off. Like the SWAT team came in and looked her over a good bit. They didn't take her to the NICU or anything, but they, um, took her from you. Yes. Yes. The weed, we didn't get quite that same like golden hour. So with Ellen, was like, no, I want to make sure I have time with her right after she's born. I don't care if she's slimy or whatever. Like this is birth. Um, and But again, I was expecting her to come early. And by 39 weeks, still nothing, which was kind of confusing, because you think your body is going to work the same each time. And it totally doesn't. So I remember with Ellen, it was like 39 weeks and five days. And I finally started to feel a contraction. But thinking back to Margo, that early stage of like, these are contractions. I should start to time them. I never had that with her because my water had broken. And it was so clear that I needed to get ready to have a baby. And so with Ellen, I... they kind of caught me off guard. And it took a while for me to realize, yeah, these are contractions. My water hasn't broken. But I could still go into labor. And so just starting to of time those and. It was, I remember it's always the evening and my, I'll get to this part with more with Hugh, think, but I have a good friend who was a doula. Oh really? Oh cool. And she told me that, and she's also actually studying now to become a midwife. Amazing. But she told me that you're more likely to give birth at night or go into labor at night because your body like naturally feels safer. Yeah. It's relaxed. It's relaxed. You're safe from like, like, you know, if you're out in the, out in the woods or out in the fields, like you're safer from predators. And that has been the case with me with all three of my births. Like just that feeling of safety. It's like 8 to 10 p.m. is when things really get into gear. The oxytocin is like flowing, you're relaxed. Like yeah, that's very common. A lot of people go into labor at night. Which is so funny because... That's like so normal to me now after having done that three times. It would be so weird to go into labor in the morning. Yeah. And just like have lunch and go to the hospital. I truly can't imagine. No, it's always midnight. Got to call the grandparents at midnight to come down and get the grandkids. Mine has always been like first thing when I wake up. like somewhere in between that like sleep and awake. Yeah. So. I know it's just interesting how everyone is, but it definitely is a thing. most, think the majority of women go into labor at night. Yeah. Like gosh, the OBs must be like so used to just getting woken up in the middle it's about eight o'clock. Here we go. Here's call. you know, started timing them at home. Again, it's just me and my husband, and I'm pretty determined this time. I'm going to go, birth's going to be a lot faster, second baby, should have no problem not using an up-and-roll, right? But again, had not prepared with any sort of classes or training beyond. internet research and that was kind of it. I I was working full time, had a two year old. It was still COVID. Like it was not. It's hard. It was just hard. It's hard to find the time. I know it really is. So we get to the hospital and I remember I had a cold and so just like really, you know, hard to breathe through my nose, only able to breathe through my mouth, which was hard. And the the nurses and the ladies at the hospital were giving me all this great advice, but. And I talked to them a little bit about this later. They're really not used to women giving birth unmedicated. Yeah. Yeah. And that's no fault of their own. But they're not trained for it. They're not. At all. I know. They might tell you a little bit of breathing. I remember the sweet cord blood bank donation lady gave me the best advice on breathing. know, just she had been at Piedmont for years and gave me some really good you know, such good encouragement and good advice, but the nurses, they're just, that's not what they do. Yeah. And I think in my head, I was like, they're going to help coach me through this. And while they are so happy to support what you want, like they have a bajillion other people that they're taking care of and they're not there to be your personal coach through it all. They're cheering you on in the middle of the night as best as they know how. course. And they do a wonderful job. But it's not their job to coach you through an unmedicated their specialty. Like you said, it's not. But they were trained on. It's not how they were trained. so few women do it now. it's like they just don't. Again, yeah, they're just not used to it. They're not used to hearing the screams. They're not used to helping people manage that kind of pain. And I also just generally have a pretty low pain tolerance. And I just remember with Ellen, the contractions got so bad. after, well, I'm trying to think of time. So we get there probably, it was probably like 10 o'clock, 9.30 or 10 by the time we got there. Cause I remember it was not, it was not that crazy late when the, my in-laws came to pick up my two year old. Um, or I guess she wasn't even two. She was like 22 months, but, It wasn't super, super late when we got there. And I just remember by like two or three in the morning, you know, it been five or six hours of just... hardcore contractions over and over and over and I'm like, it's okay. We're progressing. This is part of it. I've got to be getting close. I'm walking around using the ball, laying down, sitting up, like doing all the things I can. And by 2.30 or three o'clock in the morning, I was just like, okay, I'm going to get checked. And we're going to, I've got to be like nine or 10 centimeters now. It's time to push the baby out and just. Like, again, totally unable to breathe through my nose, like totally clogged. And the nurse checked me, and she was like, you're like four. And I think, again, I think when I came to hospital, was probably like one or two. I was never very dilated. that's You're probably like four. And I just broke down. Yeah. so defeating and I was like, how much longer do you think I have? And she was like, it's really hard to say, but certainly several more hours. have to say, no. I'd hate to be that nurse delivering that news. You know she hated to do that. was tough. So then I was like, okay, you know what? Let's just get the IV going. Yeah. So that, there is that period of time. You have to get the IV back before you get that patrol, right? Right. You've got to get an IV for at least like 45 minutes. like, let's just get that going so that if this, if there's no progression. And then I remember after... Once I was ready, I had her check me again. And there had been literally no progress at all. I long had it been? At that point, it had been probably like, don't know, 8 PM, 9 PM until like 3 AM. So what is that, like seven-ish hours? Yeah. OK. About seven hours. Yeah. Just no progress at all. Your water had not broken, right? Water hadn't broken. No. Still no water break. But again, really didn't want to get the epidural. But at that point, I just kind of gave up. And I was like, you know what? Let's just do this. Got the epidural, took a nap. They started pitocin. Baby started moving again. Did your contractions kind of peter out? Did that way they had to start pitocin? They did. Yeah. So similar. Again, I just I don't know. Again, to me, seven hours of pretty hardcore labor, you should be more than 4 centimeters. But I was not. So the contractions had not picked up to that point where they were at the point of no return. They definitely slowed down a little bit after getting the epidural. So then they kicked the ketocen in. And then really the best part about her birth was that by the time it did come to start pushing, was like three pushes and she was out. Oh, amazing. Which is like the beauty of subsequent births. I think most often, you know, it just, don't have to push for hours. body remembers what to do. You've kind of already stretched out. You can get the baby out. So pushing that part was just so much easier. Was your epidural really strong again or could you feel like anything? Yes, I could feel a lot more. That's a good question. I could feel a lot more with wasn't a great epidural. I remember one side of my leg, I could really still feel it. could even feel when my water did break in the end. So I think a lot of the pain was numbed, but it was still pretty painful in the end. pushing was still like, even though it short, it was extremely painful. Sometimes that can be, I mean, it's annoying, but sometimes I feel like it can be helpful because like you can feel more so like what you're doing. can definitely feel what you're doing, though you get some of that relief from like the pain, which was awesome. yeah, she was born. I guess at that point it would have been the day before her due date. So much more on time. still kind of a small baby in proportion to gestational age. She was like, so Margo was born. was six pounds, six ounces at 37 weeks and Ellen was seven pounds, two ounces at. 30, almost 40 weeks and my third baby was born at like 38 and a half weeks and he was like exactly halfway in between their weights. So it's like my body makes a seven pound baby and depending on when it's delivered, it will just deduct that exact number of ounces per day. Very like I make seven pound babies when they're full term. So yeah, but other than like, again, not being super prepared, but really, really trying with Ellen. I definitely labored longer with her and labored longer at home because my water hadn't broken. still dealt with that, one, the needle fear, and then two, just like the recurring back pain several hours before I felt like I could get up safely and walk to the bathroom, feel like myself again. And so that just like... was kind of a bummer. I was really determined and it didn't work out. in the end, again, healthy baby, healthy mom, all was well. But the lingering back pain and all of that, was like, OK, if I do have a third kid, this is worth diving into more, really trying. Did you ever ask any doctors about the back pain? You know, I never did. Yeah. No, I mean, I always just assumed it was like, because I was stuck in the hospital bed for so long, which is like not very comfortable, stuck kind of at that angle. Yeah. My tailbone just got like, I don't know. But yeah, I never thought to ask. I mean, it eventually did go away. That's good. And the sciatica goes away, at least for me, which I was so thankful for, because I know not everyone. Some people do have like lingering effects from it, which I didn't, thankfully. Mine lingers. If I like lay on one side for too long, I'll wake up and be like, no. And you didn't have it before. Before baby's. man. Yep. No, I thankfully have not had much of an issue with it. Like that's good. Since yeah, which I'm thankful for. yeah, so. In some senses, similar birth to Margot in that I didn't necessarily have the most baked out birth plan. But with Ellen, very different in that my water never really broke. I think the doctor, nothing about it. They broke your water? I think they broke it when I was pushing. I it was literally at the very end when my water finally did break. Water didn't break. Margot was early. Ellen was on time. the experience of trying, trying, trying. then every epidural is also very different, too. So I felt differently with Margot than with Ellen. But besides that, they were, I guess, of same but different, if you will, both girls. So I knew what to expect. Girls look really funny when they come They're all swollen and puffy. Ellen had hair, Margo didn't. again, very different, like some of those little details, but all in all kind of the same, like trying without an epidural, really couldn't make it. What I try really hard to do it differently if we decided to have a third. And I don't know if you have thought about that or... if you are going to have more babies. But after you have two, there definitely is that feeling of like, this might be my last time. We'll see, but two might be my limit. This is a lot. yeah. For The fact that I have a two-year-old waiting for me at home. I know. And I have a baby. How am I going to do this? I know. Yeah. I knew what to expect more with Ellen from like all the postpartum stuff. How did breastfeeding go with her? A lot easier. My milk came in within a day or two. that's great. Yeah. I mean, it was like night and day. She was much easier to nurse. She, I think she, she was a lot fussier. And so it was, I think, good for me that I knew that nursing was going OK. Yeah. Because I knew it was just her. It wasn't because she was hungry. Right. Like, I was doing everything I could. could not. Sometimes she would be crying so hard she couldn't nurse. Like, it was just, she was a really, really, really fussy baby until like, I don't know, 15 months. my gosh. finally grew up. Isn't it funny how now you can look back and laugh? But I'm sure when you were in it, you're like, 15 months is a long time of a fussy baby. Gosh. Yeah. Like every night when I'm cooking dinner and she's like playing quietly or like helping me, I just think about how she used to be screaming at my feet. Yeah. Like trying to pull my pants down. Yeah. And I would pick her up to try to get her to stop crying. And then I say, right, Ellen, I've got to set you down now. It's time to chop the onion. I need two hands. Right. Just set her down. She starts screaming. Yeah. I just have to chop my onion. Yeah. it in pan. I don't know. baby back up. And it just went on forever like that. It's so But then she finally mellowed out. I know. Yeah, like 15 months. It's wild. I think that's like part of what the first baby teaches you is that everything is a phase. I remember like with my first, just feeling like it was never, I was never going to be able to shower by myself again. Like, you know, and I was never going be able to do this. was never going to be able to do that. Like would things ever look like this? And it just feels so... like never ending when you're with that first, but then when you have the second and you know, for me it was so much easier to manage those hard times because I knew that it was like, it would end at some point. at some point. My babies have all been kind of progressively worse sleepers. gosh. And I feel like with, you know, with, there are things now like my, my, 18 month old, Hugh, he hates having his diaper changed. Like screams bloody murder every time. I'm like, okay, well eventually you use the bathroom. So like this will have to end. Like we will be out of diapers one day, you know, and just the messy eating. It's like, all right, eventually they figure out how to use a fork. I'm not super worried. I won't have to clean his entire high chair every single time. He one You know, like one chocolate is all over the house. I don't know how it works. But something about sleep. That is one of the things where we have, he's finally a good sleeper. Took a while. And I was this way with Ellen and it's with Margot too. I feel this way too. If they ever have like a rough sleep patch. My body goes back to those early days and I'm like, we're starting over. I'm never going to sleep again. Like I'm still not over it. think, Oh my gosh, all the work we've done to sleep train these kids and get them to be good sleepers. It's all over. Like we're going to have to start again. like that. Yeah. Back in it. Back in it. but hopefully one day they will stop. ever waking up. mean, they are good sleepers now. They'll wake up if there's like a storm and like babies do. even a baby, he'll like wake up, you know, randomly in the night. Yeah. And I'm like, when does this end? Do we have to start over with sleep training? Am I going to have to start nursing you again to get you to go back to sleep? Like, what do I do with you? I know. And then sure enough, the next night, they sleep fine. it's just, yeah. So I have to tell myself that a lot. But just like diapers, This too shall pass. It all gets better. It all gets easier. And those years go by so quick. You like barely remember them. I know. I know. So sad. is. I want to just bottle it up. Same. I know. Same. which is kind what I guess tried to do more of with my third. when Ellen was, again, Ellen was a much more difficult baby. So when that year mark came around, I was in no way ready to like jump back into being pregnant. And we waited a little bit longer, but then still had that fear of like, okay, well, what if it takes a long time this time? Like, let's not wait too long and got pregnant right away with you, which was amazing. First boy. So definitely, I think the like, you're sicker with girls or sicker with boys. I think all of that is like maybe an old wives tale. Yeah. I don't know, but it definitely rang true for me. Oh, really? I had easier pregnancies with the girls and with Hugh, my son. like that morning nausea, just sitting at the table with my head up. Oh God. So that I would not puke. I'm not trying not to smell the girls breakfast. Yeah. Just nothing felt good. And before dinner, it was like, I mean just cooking dinner. Oh god. Oh Like the smell of cooking food. Nope, it's like still makes me gag. Yeah. I mean I could chop a carrot. Yeah cooking any sort of meat. Yeah was so repulsive Sometimes I'm still not over that same. I'm just like I just heard about like the meatballs I'm making I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, some things are still not the same for me Yeah, so when you decided you were gonna have a third did you have? any, you know, amongst friends? Did you have any preferences? like, were you've been good if you had three girls or were you kind of hoping to have a boy? It's funny you say that. We, I think my husband would tell you, sorry, Hugh, if you listen to this one day, think my husband would tell you that he was like pretty excited about having a third girl. I was completely 50 50. We can have a third girl. I know girls. It'd be really fun to have a boy. I was so 50-50. Priority was just like healthy pregnancy. We had already picked a name for the girl. And to find out the gender, we decided to go out to dinner as a family. And I had a friend read the results online and write them in an envelope so we could open it together as a family at the table. If you look at the picture now, we were all, this was not a choice, this was subconscious. We were all wearing pink. All of us in pink. And we opened the envelope and it says, it's a boy. And we were pretty surprised. I feel like everyone I know has three of the same. My brother has three girls. My best friend has three boys. I mean, I feel like I know so many people have three girls or three boys. And then they give up because they're like, we don't want a fourth girl. We don't want a fourth boy. And then sometimes they have four boys or four girls. But yeah, we were pretty sure it was going to be a girl. And I actually wanted to wait to find out at the hospital. Yeah, which I believe you've done. Yes, I did. We did surprises for both of them. Yeah. I really wanted to because I so evenly about having a girl or a boy. My husband just really felt like, you know, for him, I think to connect more and felt more meaningful to him to find out. He was really keen to find out. So when we found out it was a boy, we were pretty stumped on the name because we had only ever planned for girl names. We even had a third girl name picked out and It took us a long, long time, like driving to the hospital, I feel like is when we finally like figured out the name. Yeah, or maybe even after he was born, at least the middle name. I don't know. It took a while. I love it. How did you decide on Hugh? I think it's such a handsome name. thanks. We love it. Yeah, we love it. My husband's... family genealogy book had some good names. My side of the family's genealogy book had some good names, but my side is, my dad was Belgian. And so a lot of those names sound really cool in French, but then in English they're like John. And then our last name is Green. So. John Green. I really liked the name George. And my husband was like, we're not going to have a George Green. It sounds like a monopoly. Too boring. Which no offense to all the George Greens out there. I think it's a lovely name. And Hugh just felt like the right blend of, it was in his side family name. It felt like the right blend of a name that people know and is a name, but it's a little bit unique. You don't meet that many Hughes. Although I feel like I do know several kids with... who are named Hughes plural. Yes. Yes. Yes. But I haven't met any little boys named Hugh, just regular old Hugh. Yeah. it's been really fun actually to have a baby that rhyme baby name that rhymes with you. Oh, because you can add it into every song. Like all I want for Christmas is Hugh. Happy birthday to Hugh. It's just so fun to like sing to him. And because he's the boy, you know, all the girls just like love him singing and calling him Huey Louie. And so it's been a sweet name. And then his middle name Edmond which is was my grandfather's middle name and was his grandfather's first name so that name kind of comes through the family on my dad on my side like through my dad. it. So yeah. Very handsome. I will say going back to the surprise thing we love doing it it was so much fun but I always tell people like I do not recommend it if you have a strong feeling. Like you really, really shouldn't do it. I've known some people who've had some major disappointments. It's tough. And it's tough to like, you need a minute to process. And it's a lot harder to have a minute to process when the baby's already here. Totally. You need some time to get amped for your new baby. Exactly. Before the baby comes. Yeah. So only do it if you really don't care either way. And that's where I felt I truly did not care. Yeah. And I think my husband kind of would. wanted that third girl. So good thing you didn't wait then. I he was keen to find out. And then obviously he was like so pumped to also have a boy. and it's been really fun. And he looks, my son looks just like him, like carbon copy. my kids are blonde, you know, so it's so funny. I, they say blonde is recessive, but I begged to differ. I, I would say so too, because my husband is very dark as well, like you and I'm blonde, but not like crazy blonde. Both of our kids have been blonde and one of them's grown out of it now but the other one is like really really blonde and I'm like I don't know, we'll see. Yeah. It's weird. Yeah I feel like they will darken, their hair might darken over time. But I was born, I have dark hair now, and I was born with black hair, and it's lightened. OK. So those, like, I feel like those, like, my kids do not have those, like, true brunette features. Yeah. Like the dark eyelashes, the dark eyebrows, you know? Uh-huh. I feel like for the girls is lucky, and then, you know, it's less of a big deal for boys. But oh my gosh, when my girls are older, like, they're probably not going to have to deal with, the super dark leg hair. Like, I'm kind of jealous, because us true brunettes, like, have it tough, you know? But yeah, so going back to just with Hugh again, very thankful to after the journey with Margo was like Ellen and then Hugh like boom, boom. My little one hit wonders. It's amazing. And yeah, so the main difference with Hugh's pregnancy besides I did deal with morning nausea a way that I hadn't with the other two was that I was a stay at home mom for Hugh. So my first two I was working Margo was COVID, so I don't really know what she did. It was like a hodgepodge of child care for her. But by the time I was pregnant with Ellen, she was in full-time daycare. And I did not have to take care of her during the day. And then with Hugh, I was like newly onto the stay-at-home mom boat with a three-year-old and an 18-month-old who only went to preschool two days a week from 9 to 1. And I just remember going to the park one day with them. And I laid down on this hill. And this woman came over to me was like, do I need to call the hospital? Are you OK? She thought I was about to have a baby. And I was like, no. I'm like 24 weeks. I got a long way to go. I'm just resting. I'm just wiped out. And at that point, sciatica pain had kicked in way earlier because my body had shifted so much earlier. And in my head at that time, thought, it's because I have a boy and he's going to be so much bigger. He wasn't. It was just my body doing its thing and deciding that the sciatica nerve was a good place to just rage. Everything happens sooner in subsequent pregnancies, too. It's like, if you have sciatica pain halfway through your first pregnancy, it'll happen first trimester and your second. Yeah, totally. So I did start going to a chiropractor with him probably around 20 weeks. it was such a blessing because she was on my corner. It was really easy to get to, which when you don't have child care, critical if you have to bring them. So that made a huge, huge difference with her being close. That, I still don't really understand chiropractic care, but it worked. I know. It really helped. It's amazing. One of my best friends is an orthopedic surgeon, and I was like, you're not going to believe this. And I didn't want to tell you, but I'm going to a chiropractor. And she was like, just don't let them touch your neck. Just don't let them. I'm like, OK. I do. I've had a chiropractor on before on the podcast and she's amazing and I saw her all throughout my second pregnancy as well. It works. It absolutely works. It's amazing. I don't know, I don't know. Again, it happened so quickly. I don't really understand the science behind it. It's crazy. But it was amazing. And honestly, just the table that she would adjust for a pregnant person, just getting to lay in the table. I know, with your belly in the hole. Oh, it's the best. What a gift. I could have stayed there all day. It was so great. Can I rent one of these? Yes, and sleep on it. Especially if you're a stomach sleeper. I love to sleep on my tummy at night. I'm either back or stomach sleeper. So being pregnant is like, brutal. Not fun for me, having to sleep on my side. And then you add in the sciatica. And it's like, then you can only sleep on one side. You cannot ship sides. No fun. the guy factor helped. Yes, big time. And I also, during Hugh's pregnancy, asked my friend that I mentioned before who was a doula. I asked her if she would be willing to be a doula for me. Amazing. Which she was, which was awesome. So we met several times. She also had a baby of her own at that time. So she was not. doula-ing. Yeah, for like a lot of people. a lot of people or even offering services for like new clients at that point just because she couldn't. But she was willing to help me out, which was wonderful. And she like set me up with a birthing ball at my home and gave me all these great stretches. And I was really determined like, OK, this is maybe my last chance, third baby. We're going to nail this. I tried to do all the right stretches and all these things to make sure my body was in position. was just relying on this fact that everyone says your third baby, they're this mystery. They might fall out in the elevator. Right. So many people told me that. Like, my first two were these long labors. And then my second was like, boom, boom, there she was. Barely made it to the hospital. I'm like, great, that's what we I'll take it. Like, I need that third baby to come quick. I have a very low pain tolerance. And I can't do another 10 hours of contractions or whatever. With Hugh, think it was like, I don't know, it was probably 37. I was, yeah, again, in kind of the strike zone, like maybe a couple of weeks to go. And I started feeling contractions and called my friend, Lena, my doula. She came over, we were timing them. I called the doctor and the doctor was like, don't wait on that third. You never know. They come quick. I was like, okay, like really want him to come quick. So that'd be great with me if he came out in the elevator. Yeah. They weren't getting super strong, but they were maintaining pretty good rhythm. And I was like, OK, well, if this is the third baby, he's going to come quick, so I better get going. So we go to the hospital. And by the time we're pulling into the parking deck, I'm like, this baby's not coming. They had slowed down. I could tell. And I was like, I don't know if I got nervous and my body clammed up or what. But I was like, this just isn't happening. And I just remember walking in there feeling so embarrassed, because I am not a first time mom. I am not a second time mom. This is my third rodeo and... When I walked, I had never been to triage at the hospital before. Did you know they have that? Yes, I did. They have triage. Where you go if they're not really sure if you're going into labor? I've always been very clearly in labor. And I was like, wow, they must really doubt me too. And I went in there. And the nurse is looking at me, and she checks me. And before she even says anything, I'm I'm sitting at 0 centimeters. And she's like, yep, you could try walking around. But since you're 37 weeks, there's really no need to induce you. Yeah. You should probably just go home. My actual doctor was there, and she came in. And I could tell she was so sleepy. And I was like, I'm so sorry, but I think I'm just going to go. Yeah, think I'm just going to go now. And I mean, it's just really funny. You think you know everything, because it's your third time. And of course, my only ever false alarm to the hospital trip is with my third and maybe final kid. You know, like, well. You kind of just, yeah, it's such an art, not a science. Yes. You can't get embarrassed. for asking the questions. it's worth going in. you feel like you might be, one, if anything is wrong, obviously, always call. But they're there for you. And if you make a mistake and think you're in labor and then you're not, they see that all the time. Better safe than sorry. And I mean, if you think about it too, there is no, I mean, Pregnancy and birth is so humbling. coming into the hospital and not being in labor is the least of your worries. It's the least embarrassing thing you could do during birth. You know what mean? yeah. Like it's all about to get out there. Totally. Yeah, so came home. My mother-in-law had already come down to hang out with the girls. So yeah, we just had a fun little sleepover with her and then she went home the next morning and all was well. By that point, my contractions had totally stopped. mean, they had been going kind of like a steady clip all day, but they had totally stopped. Oh, and I didn't mention this, but I had called Lena and she came to the house. And even as we were getting in the car, was like, Lena, let me get to the hospital, and then I'll call you. I don't want you to come to the hospital if this isn't for real. Because I had already kind of had some. Like, OK, they're just not very painful yet. I'm not sure. But one thing that that experience did teach me is that, I can labor at home a lot longer, even if my water breaks. And that was one thing that my friend Dula had told me, too, is that labor at home as long as you can. Again, balancing it with that. Third kid falling out in the elevator risk. you know your body. You've had pretty consistent long labors. Or not that long, but not short with the other two. You're probably not going to have a baby in 30 minutes. It's going to be OK if you hang out at home and you have to deal with some contractions in the car. You're not that far from the hospital. We were probably like 20 minutes, especially in the middle of the night. No time at all to get up there. so I had called her and told her like, Don't bother coming. Just go home and go to bed. Sorry. But then a couple weeks, or I guess it would have been like a week and a half later, I went in for... my 38 week appointment and I would have been right around 38 and a half weeks at that point. But it was technically my 38 week visit. I went in and I was feeling brave and I was like, and I don't like being checked because of the pain. So again, very low pain tolerance. Like anything up there is going to hurt. And I asked the nurse, was like, do you think? Do you think I get checked? Is that OK? She's like, yeah, we can check you any time. I had never really had that in the room setting before. I had only ever been checked once I got to the hospital for delivery. And she checked me, and she was like, you're like three centimeters. And I was like, really? Normally, I'm in full labor before I'm three centimeters. This is awesome. And she was like, I mean, if you have your stuff, we can admit you. Because I'd kind of been having like Brexit and Hicks-type contractions. And I was like, no, no, no. Like, I got to go get the kids. Yeah. We're not there. We're not there. I really was determined to like labor at home as long as possible. drove home, tried to have like a chill day and not do anything like super strenuous, but just go throughout my day, get my kids taken care of, all in the back of my mind, knowing like, this could kick in. And we might be going to the hospital tonight. And sure enough, By dinner time, my daughter actually at this moment grabbed my phone and started videoing, which is so funny. And it's just my husband and I telling the girls, OK, girls, you need to get in the bath. Mommy's probably going to have a baby tonight. You need to just get yourselves in the bath. Stop running around. Listen and obey. Get your clothes off and get ready for bed. We're not really sure what's happening. And in the video, you can see me just sitting in the chair thinking like, Is this real? Because I was so nervous to get all my hopes up and get everything in place. to go to the hospital again and it not be. But I knew, OK, I'm already dilated a little, so maybe this is for real. But I was feeling really good about, know, contractions were happening every couple of minutes at that point. What's the rule? 511? Five minutes apart? For a minute long, for an hour. For an hour, yeah. So it had definitely been like a couple hours of very uneven contractions, but they were starting to get longer, starting to feel like, OK, that was the start and the end of a contraction. OK, now they're happening every five to eight minutes. OK, those happen two minutes apart. OK, back to eight. OK, but they're not super. OK, now they're getting more painful, kind of that natural progression. Still no water breaking or anything like that. And with none of them, have I ever had any sort of like blood or mucus that I have been able to identify? No bloody show, no mucus pugs. None of the other symptoms or signs. Yeah, really just with Margot, it was that water breaking, and that was it. And I'm determined to labor at home as long as possible. Right. And so I'm just sitting on the couch at first, take a shower. Obviously the warm water feels great. Like Tucker's dealing with the girls, getting them down. My mother-in-law is kind of on standby waiting to come to make sure I actually go to the hospital. My neighbor was also willing to come over in a pinch. She was at home, so I'd already kind of checked that. Lani came over. We're just hanging out. And I'm feeling like, OK, these are real. Like, if this is fake labor, I don't want real. Right. Like, this is getting real. OK. So it was probably, I don't know. Again, right at that 930, 10 o'clock time, I finally decide, OK, these are real. If they pick up quickly and we're in the car, that actually is really alarming. I kind of started to panic a little. My third baby could fall out in the car. OK, better get a move on. So again, hindsight 2020, probably could have labored it home a little longer. get to the hospital, walking through, they're like, do you want a wheelchair? And I'm like, no, I am walking this baby out because they're going to fall out in the elevator. Like, this has to be fast. I mean, I am determined to walk, carry my bags. I'm practically doing squats while I'm signing the paperwork. Baby is coming soon. And we get back to the... I get to skip triage this time. look legit. So skip triage, go back to the room and get on the hospital gown. I, this time it was like, I knew so many more things to ask for. Like I had learned, One of the reasons it's difficult to labor without an epidural is because you're hooked up to all these things. Yeah. And you can't move. Yeah. And I had never even thought about that before. Yeah. And all I had to do was ask, hey, is there a way I cannot be hooked up to the monitor? And they were like, well, no. Yeah. We must have the baby monitor on you. And I'm like, fair. I kind of want to make sure everything's OK, too. But they had a wireless one that was on a cart. Right. Amazing. Yeah. I also tested positive with all three. I tested positive for group B strep. I forget exactly when they did the antibiotic drip for me with you, but it was again, I was like, okay, how can I, I was really focused on staying mobile. Like how can I just stay mobile as long as possible? So when I got to the hospital, they checked me. I was still only like four or five centimeters. I hadn't actually progressed that much. I was maybe around, I think I was like five, which for me was like very encouraging. I'd never come to the hospital beyond like two at that point. But I said, okay, Let's wait as long as possible on the penicillin drip just to keep me mobile. And even that, if I remember correctly, they were able to do it in a way that still gave me some mobility. Like I had mobile monitors, and they were very chill. They were like, if you need to take them off for a little bit, it's fine. they were, again, not equipped to coach me through everything, but once I knew what to ask for, it was like the world kind of opened up. Yeah, exactly. I should have brought my own birthing ball. They brought one that was like the size of a large basketball. I don't think this is what you think it is. I'm going to squish this. It wasn't quite the right thing, but they did their best. so labor is, is, you know, laboring on and- And your friend is there? My friend is there. Yes. She helping with like- So helpful with like positioning, showing my husband how to like squeeze my- pressure. Yeah, I don't even know what this is called. your hip bones, like the back of your hip. Yes, above the hip, back, holding on to me, helping me walk around, work through contractions, helping me breathe, helping me not scream, but breathe deeply to really get through. Right, open up with that low tone. Yes, yes, like so helpful. And we had talked a little bit about that before too, so I knew kind of like... a little bit what to do, but it was so helpful to have them there in the moment. mean, unless you're just really smart, I don't know. I consider myself kind of a smart person, but like, I'm not remembering anything. I'm not reading notes. I'll vouch for you. You're a very smart person, but if anyone in labor, it's like, yeah, I don't know how you advocate for yourself. Yeah. You're just kind of like in this zone. And again, I have a really low pain tolerance. So to have someone there helping me be like, you can do this, helping me figure out ways to alleviate the pain was so. incredibly helpful. Doulas are amazing. Yes. And I remember listening to your podcast about how amazing your husband was. Did he read a book or something? Because. I like read out loud to him a I love it. We were quite a very supportive husband, but he's not in the nitty gritty like Christmas. But they're cheering me on, but like no clue, you know? I had forced him to. He had no choice. did like unmedicated birth. series of classes with me. And it was during COVID. And so we watched the million TV every Saturday or Friday and make him sit down and watch two hours. my gosh. Amazing. On Medicaid at birth class. So no, he was forced to be prepared. OK. Well, good on him. He could probably teach a little dude's class or something. He could get together with a 3 o'clock on a Saturday with some beers. deers. They just ride themselves. like, crush it. Yeah. think there's an opportunity for him. I know, me too. I think a lot of women would like willingly sign their husbands up for this. I know. Just saying. I know. Yeah, I keep telling him, I'm like, you're going to fit somewhere in this whole birth business model I have. I'm just not sure where yet. But yeah, like again, Lena was super helpful. She took pictures, which was sweet. And I remember at one point she was like, oh my gosh, Mel, you have a sticker on your sock. And she like took this, it was some little sticker from one of the girls. It was just like on my sock. And I took it off and she put it on the hospital bed so I could see it. And it was just one of those like sweet reminders of like no matter what happens, kids are incredible. And this is such a short. Short moment their entire life and of your entire motherhood journey. So like whatever happens. It's all gonna be yeah Okay, like you've got a you've got a three-year-old to look forward to you've a five-year-old to look forward to there's so much to look forward to It's a good reminder that like this is what you're gonna get after this Yes, and I feel the same way about I mean, I'm sure you're the same like a lot of your friends Everyone's had such different experiences. Yeah with breastfeeding. my gosh. Yeah, yes. It is such a bonding experience experience, but nothing compares to when they say I love you for the first time. say your name. Yeah, nothing. In the end, there's still so much more to look forward to. I think about nursing my babies for a year, and I'm like, that year went by like that. When they choose now, to just come cuddle me even though I'm not their food source, that's even more meaningful. Like it just gets better. And so I feel like her, I just remember her being like, Mel, you've got a little sticker on your foot. It was just a reminder of like, birth is so hard and it's so short. And then before you know it, your kids will be like. making art for you and like doing stickers and getting like they're just so wonderful. So it was just one of those like really sweet little moments and I have a snapshot. Yeah. I have like a little picture of my hands, like gripping the hospital bed. There's like a little sticker right there to remind me that that really hits home for me. Cause my almost five year old is deep in the sticker phase. find stickers on all my clothes and we'll like wash something. It'll come out of the dryer and have like a sticker like like in your dryer drawer. Yeah. And then the Goo Gone on the side of the dresser. where they decorated one stickers. Aw. Aw. But yeah, so and then weirdly I had this thing. I wanted to give birth on, it was the November 22nd. I wanted to have the baby on the 22nd because I have a lot of important people in my life who are born on the 22nd of months. I'm a 22nd. what month? May 22nd. I'll add you to my finger card. don't have a May. That's so great. November 22nd is my half birthday. OK, love it. Yes, yes, you're right. So at like 11.45, I'm like, OK, I really want to this baby in the next 15 minutes. I've got to be close. And I have the doctor come in and check. And she was like, you're like maybe seven? Probably six. You could round up to seven. And I was just kind of like, shoot. Has my water broken? She's like, no, it doesn't look like it. But you're doing great. Hang in there. And at this point, again, Low pain tolerance, girly hair. The pain was becoming obviously just so, so intense. The contractions were consistent, nonstop, unrelenting. Well, you're entering transition, which is the hardest Yes. am sweating bullets, starting to just go crazy. And I'm like, you know what? Let's try nitrous. Which I don't know if you had ever looked into that. I did. They don't have it at Northside. Oh, interesting. Yes. Because in the UK, they call it gas. like, yes. And in Australia. And they use it all the time. Yes. Yeah. It's an alternative method. Yeah. My friend told me, who delivered in the UK, told me about it. Yeah. She said, she gave me a heads up that it can also make you very nauseous, which sort of happened to me. Yeah. It was like, it was one of those moments where I was like, OK, get this thing off me. I'm about to puke Yeah, never mind. And that is kind of, I think, the downside to it is that it is one more piece of equipment. kind of in there in your way. It's a mask, which when you're breathing, it's like a lot, because you're trying to breathe and get as much breath as you can. But it ended up like, it was remarkably helpful. I mean, it really took your mind off. It took your mind kind of off the pain. I mean, it was still like there, but it definitely like eased things up for me. And I feel like gave me another I don't know, kind of a second wind of like, okay, I a little break from this. you through the next. We're getting there. So at this point, I'm using the nitrous. The only downside to that is that you do lose some ability. They don't let you walk around when you're using it because it makes you woozy and dizzy, which is why people do it at concerts. It's literally the same thing, which is so funny because my husband is a huge fish fan. Oh, it's just like those people in the parking lot that like you are now them. It's like, OK, great. Here we are. I'm on some fish. But it really did. I mean, it was remarkable how much it helped. It kind of mentally tricked your brain into not thinking about the pain. you lose mobility. They don't let you walk around. I can move around still in the hospital bed. At this point, though, I've got the penicillin going. So your mobility does start to get a little limited because they don't want you walking around. But I remember I was sitting kind of with my knees in the corner of the hospital bed. and holding on to the backrest and kind of in that position. I liked that Still able to move, but just not walking. Which also at that point, was like, I don't know, we're past midnight. We're going to have a November 23rd, baby. Yeah. Whatever. It was getting to like. You know, 1, 2 in the morning, I was starting to get really tired. Yeah. Like, didn't really want to be walking around. Like, wanted to sit down. Was just so exhausted. And these contractions just kept coming and kept coming. And by around 2 o'clock, so it had been like maybe seven hours at that point, 2, 2.30 in the morning, I was like, OK, I feel like it's time to push. Like, it's got to be. I feel like, I mean, there's got to be a head down there. Yeah. And I was so hopeful. And the doctor came in. I was like, is it time? I feel like we're there. And she looks and she was like, so you're at about eight centimeters. Your water hasn't broken. That's not a head. I was like, oh, OK. And I just remember looking at Lena and being like, I don't think this is going to go. I just can't. And I felt my body really starting to like. seize up, just kind of like, oh, the contraction's coming. I can feel it. instead of running to it with that kind of gusto of, OK, I'm going to breathe through it and get through it, it was like, oh, no. What do I do? Panic. I was getting really tired of the nitrous, because it does kind of make you nauseous and feel funny after a while. And I was just like, OK, maybe let's just get the IV going so that I know that there's an out if I'm not going to deliver the baby. So it was kind of similar to Ellen in that I was like, let's start it, but maybe not. Was there any talk of breaking your water? Because that can sometimes cause labor to quicken. You know, not really. I didn't think about asking for that. The doctor did say that if you break it, it would be like extremely painful. after that potentially, which I don't know if that's true or not. mean, because I don't know that we ever really tried that. They do say that once your water breaks, is the contractions are more painful because there's no padding. yeah. But then it's like kicking in. But if you're all painful, it's all painful. And you were already eight centimeters in transition. Like, it's all relative at that point. Yeah. My husband will tell you that he was like terrified. He was like, I don't even know like what is coming out of her mouth and body and brain right now. And I had started to feel like trickles of water and was so hopeful that those was my water breaking and then when the doctor was like, no. It was so discouraging. Yeah, that's so hard. But then I got the IV started because I was like, OK, at least then it's like I've got 45 minutes to push out a baby. Yeah. And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Right. And I've got an out. And we're going to be OK. And then after 45 minutes. again felt like that's got to be ahead, got checked again, no progress whatsoever, still sitting at like eight centimeters. I said, you know what? We're just going to call a spade to spade. I can't take this anymore. Called the anesthesiologist, came in, epidural, 30 minutes later, the baby was born. It was like, that break was just all I really needed in the end. And I was thankful for it to just get a little break. think I slept for like 15 minutes. Yeah. woke up to the doctor saying it's time. my gosh. It's wild. Yeah. And that's what a body needs. It's just like I, the break and I truly, yeah, I truly was starting to, again, and it's easy to say this in hindsight. I did not recognize this while I was going through it. It's easy to see now instead of like, kind of going after each contraction, it was like dread and almost like telling myself to not try to not make it happen. And so in the end, very quick epidural, very quick birth. pushes? Three or four. That's amazing. Very quick again, just like Ellen. Yeah. Knew what I was doing much more could, and the epidural, I hadn't like been sitting there like pumping it in all day. It was so much easier and I could really feel what was going on. So that makes such a big difference with pushing. Yes. Cause I could feel so much. of almost like where he was. Yeah, connecting. Yeah, it was a lot easier. I feel like it's more efficient because you're like, oh, I can feel what I need to do. Yes, I know I can push a little bit further right now and get a little more progress versus like, oh, I need to just wait for the next contraction. So yeah, he was born and all was well. This is, I don't know that this is like a scientifically proven fact, but because I had had such a short epidural, it was just so in and out that I was up and walking within an hour or two. That's great. And did not nearly have the same kind of back pain that I had had with the other two. So it kind of was, even though it wasn't like my dream birth, I feel like the. the circumstances around it, like I do feel like I made it as far as I could. And then I avoided most of those epidural related symptoms that had really bothered me before that I really wanted to avoid. all in all, it was great. And I just remember this sweet little nurse, she was super Southern and she was like, you know, you don't get a gold star for delivering one way or another, you just get a baby. Yeah. That's true. It's so true. And yeah, thinking about it now, it's like, there's so much more to look forward to. No matter what happens that a healthy baby in the end is like the greatest blessing. your dream birth might happen or it might not. And it's easy to say, hindsight 2020, I would have done it this way. I would have labored at home longer. I would have gotten to the hospital and gotten an epidural straight away and had my nails done. You can do it differently the next time with full hindsight. But when you're in the moment, you just have to make the best decision for you in that moment. The biggest thing with Hugh was just having my friend, Lena, there to help coach me through all of that was like, I mean, the best thing. And it kind of makes you wish that. nurses, I don't know. And again, it's not really possible for them to like have all of that training too. Yeah. But you kind of wish they did in some way because it was so incredibly helpful and not everyone even realizes or can afford or knows that they should have a doula with them. I agree that I think it'd be really hard for nurses in the way that like our hospital system is set up today for them to also provide that care. But I wish doulas were covered by insurance and I wish like OB practices like included it as as recommended part of your pregnancy They offered you a number to call. They exactly. They don't even tell you about it. not even, I know. So yeah, there's such a big gap there. And there's so many small things that could be done to close it. And yeah, doulas are incredible. They can make or break the outcome of a delivery. But ultimately, like you said, I really loved what you said about birth is just such a short. part of this long, long journey that you're going to have with that baby, that child, and that motherhood journey with that specific child. Each one's different with each child. And so yeah, you had your healthy baby boy, and that's the most important thing. And you made some tweaks and had a better experience or a different experience. yeah, it's all good at the end of the day. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I feel if I were to ever have a fourth, which who knows, I would keep my expectations low, but without a doubt have a doula. Yeah. Because that was. truly so, so, so, so helpful. part of me wonders if by having my first baby during COVID, if that whole side of birth was just kind of missed. Yeah. Because you weren't allowed to have an extra You could have your husband, but that was it. You were allowed one person. And so no one was having doulas. Was that just missed? There were no birth classes available. Was that just because I didn't get that in my first birth, did I kind of miss it for my second and then try to get it? I don't know. It was very helpful to have her guidance through the whole journey. And then obviously at the end too with birth. feel like there's the part that they're involved in during pregnancy, which is very helpful. But then extremely helpful for them to be there at the hospital with you. Well, I'm glad that she was able to do that for you. Yes, me And have it be your friend is even more special. yeah. Yeah, it's wonderful. We talk about it all the time. Yeah, I know. Isn't that fun to have a best friend that you can talk about your birth story with all the time? And she knows it all. Yeah. that's amazing. So yeah. Well, I always like to wrap up by asking people to describe birth in three words, whatever comes to mind. Sanctifying. I haven't heard that one. That's a good one. I mean Because it is humbling you are just so at the mercy of so many other things Yeah, you're at the mercy of the people taking care of you in a way. You're at the mercy of like your baby and what they are deciding to do at that moment, like whether come out or not. Yeah. so much is out of your control. And I think, yeah, I think because it is so humbling and yet also, so I think my third word would be like, this is so cliche, just like unworldly. Yeah. And so amazing. Like it just doesn't even, it's so different. is, it birth amazes me because it is Every person on earth exists because somebody gave birth. Yes. a mom gave birth. Yes. So it is the most normal thing. And yet when you go through it, it feels like out of this world. Like magic. is truly unworldly. Like how this little baby was inside of you breathing fluid. And they come out as a baby breathing. Like it is so crazy. Yes. So and I feel like because it's both just so incredible and unworldly and amazing and humbling, is also very sanctifying in that you just become a very, you're a changed person after it happens. With your first, you become a parent. But then even with your others, mean, with subsequent children, it's like you've brought another being into the world. And there's nothing that could ever like. like replace that feeling or match that feeling. You become a different mom each time, you know, like, like a mom, a first time mom is one thing. And then navigating becoming a mom with two kids is a different kind of mom. Navigating becoming a mom with three kids is a different kind of mom. Like each time this, this past week's episode with our mutual friend, Carolyn, she said that there's a Sarah Bareilles song that she always listens to. That's the, one of the lines is she listens to it on her kids' birthdays. And it, of the lines is I'll remember to say, that I was born today too. And I'm like, oh, that's so true. It is. And just like every birth is different, like. Every child is different. you're a different mom. You're the same mom, but you parent differently for each kid and at different phases and ages. yeah, such an incredible experience. Well, thank you so much for sharing those stories with us. you're so welcome. It was such an honor to be here. I appreciate it. Well, you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time.