Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (1/6)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Invasion of the Dinosaurs (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Hello and welcome to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the
• 0:41
  Doctor Who Commentary Podcast. My name is Paul Arthur and I am
• 0:45
  sat here with the Master of Ceremonies, Mr. Joe Ford.
• 0:50
  Hi, Joe. Hello.
• 0:51
  Do you imagine that Tyrannosaurus rexes are so cross
• 0:55
  because they've only got little hands and they can't reach their
• 0:58
  appendages? I think you'd have to be,
• 1:01
  wouldn't you? What happens if you've got an
• 1:03
  itchy arse? I mean, how do you scratch that?
• 1:06
  I mean, Paul, they're not wearing clothes either so I
• 1:08
  can't see any appendages, so I can only assume they're all
• 1:10
  ladies in this. Well, OK, we back to that again,
• 1:14
  aren't we? Oh of.
• 1:16
  Course. This is a theme for us the last
• 1:19
  time, you know, trashics before and whether they are women or
• 1:22
  not. And and now we've got female
• 1:24
  dinosaurs. Who knows?
• 1:25
  Who knows? Watch out, I go back into my
• 1:28
  David Attenborough voice as we do Dinosaur Watch today.
• 1:32
  Is this why you suggested this story so?
• 1:35
  I promise, I promise. I sort of was.
• 1:38
  I was thinking earlier today though, because everybody,
• 1:42
  literally everybody turned out to be a traitor in this story at
• 1:46
  one point or another. I'm not sure if you and I aren't
• 1:48
  traitors in this story if I'm honest.
• 1:51
  Like. Yeah, yeah, there is somebody on
• 1:53
  the inside of the ham fam and we need to find out what's going
• 1:55
  on. I was phrase Gregory for.
• 1:58
  Sure. Burn him like a witch.
• 2:00
  I was thinking of pulling, pulling out my sort of Darrow,
• 2:03
  you know? Have you betrayed me?
• 2:06
  From the end of. Every time a new traitor has
• 2:09
  appeared, or what's the thing He says in Time Lash.
• 2:12
  He does say that, doesn't he? And you are the traitor.
• 2:17
  Yeah, there we go. There.
• 2:19
  I mean masterfully. Like, like Darrow was here
• 2:21
  himself. Amazing.
• 2:23
  So if you had Paul Darrow suddenly turn up, you know why.
• 2:26
  All right. And there's plenty of traitors
• 2:28
  in this story, isn't there? So that's what makes Invasion of
• 2:31
  the Dinosaurs so fun, is that the reveals every episode seems
• 2:35
  to have somebody new kind of on the side of the baddies.
• 2:39
  Some people less surprising, some people very surprising.
• 2:44
  When you say that when I first watched it, this took me totally
• 2:47
  by surprise. I mean, I think I first watched
• 2:52
  it in the in the 90s when I joined fandom and I slowly study
• 2:57
  kind of watching through stuff. I probably watched on the UK
• 2:59
  Guild repeat when they started those first first run through of
• 3:02
  those. I think it's probably where I
• 3:04
  watched it. And up to that point, I, I knew
• 3:08
  what he was about, but I hadn't necessarily read all of the, the
• 3:11
  target books. I don't think I'd read the
• 3:12
  target book for this one. I didn't know the story very
• 3:15
  well. I knew the headlines.
• 3:16
  I knew that the dinosaurs are rubbish and I knew kind of
• 3:20
  roughly what the story was about, but I didn't know quite
• 3:23
  how many revelations you get through it.
• 3:26
  And it was one of those stories where it's a genuine surprise.
• 3:30
  And I don't I think it can I can count on well, I can count on
• 3:34
  one hand with three fingers leftover the number of number of
• 3:37
  stories that surprised me during that period of watching all of
• 3:41
  the all of the stories I'd only read about little bits of, you
• 3:44
  know, synopsis of. This is one of those stories.
• 3:47
  This is one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:49
  What's the? Others.
• 3:51
  The only other one was Planet of Evil, and it's yeah, and it
• 3:57
  sounds really bizarre. It's only one little bit and
• 3:59
  it's just the the cliffhanger where they're being ejected in
• 4:02
  space genuinely shocked me and I was an adult by this point.
• 4:06
  I just thought that was like it sounds weird but.
• 4:09
  Often, that's rather adorable. Well, like normal, normally you
• 4:13
  Cliffhang is is is always, always the monster reveal or is
• 4:18
  somebody putting a gun at the doctor?
• 4:20
  But that was like, Oh my God, they're genuinely being ejected
• 4:23
  out in the space and you see them kind of leaving the set and
• 4:25
  you're like, but I this hook line sinker.
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  I was totally sold. So that's the only other time.
• 4:31
  Got me thinking now about times when on 1st watch when Doctor
• 4:35
  Who really surprised me. I remember address only one
• 4:39
  floored me like that. Like, because I used to like
• 4:43
  trying to figure out how you get out of a cliffhanger and I just
• 4:45
  couldn't figure a way out of that cliffhanger, right?
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  So I was like, what? They're clearly dead.
• 4:50
  They've been machine guns for death, right?
• 4:54
  How do you get out of a firing? Yeah.
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  Because I realized the cheat was there in episode 1 when that
• 4:59
  Android very discreetly slips into their cell.
• 5:02
  You know, I'm sorry, we're not talking about case of address.
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  Well, you know, yeah, we've started already on a tangent, so
• 5:08
  yeah. Well, there won't be.
• 5:09
  We've got 6 episodes to get through.
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  We're doing three of those today.
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  I'm sure there'll be one or two tangents.
• 5:15
  Before we jump into episode 1. I would like you to put aside
• 5:22
  your borrowed embarrassment from your family because I know you
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  did a screening of this last weekend.
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  You know, bravely show the model dinosaurs to your wife and
• 5:34
  children. Yeah, modern day audience for
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  Paul. Honestly, you're so brave.
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  I wanted, well, I I really wanted to get an outsider's
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  perspective on it. They, they kind of, they're all
• 5:47
  a bit familiar with. Well, yeah, they're familiar
• 5:49
  with Doctor Who enough, but they've seen bits and bobs, but
• 5:52
  they haven't seen this. And and like, like I said, like
• 5:55
  being surprised by this one, one of the things that you know
• 5:59
  about it is the fact that, you know, going in, if you didn't
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  know anything else, you'd knew that the first episode was
• 6:04
  called Invasion because they were trying to hide the fact
• 6:06
  that dinosaurs were in there. And, you know, that first
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  episode was all about them slowly discovering the, the, the
• 6:13
  fact that there are dinosaurs in London.
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  So I really wanted somebody who wasn't familiar with it to watch
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  it and go, OK, what is going on here?
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  Can they figure it out as they're going on, as it as it
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  kind of unfolds? So that was kind of my impetus
• 6:27
  for doing it. But like like you say, I
• 6:30
  suddenly was suddenly kind of that second hand embarrassment I
• 6:33
  had actually experienced for quite a long time as I'm kind of
• 6:36
  really painfully aware of the some of, you know, the slowness
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  of it because it's slowly unfolds, doesn't it?
• 6:43
  It's kind of like one of those kind of opening exploratory
• 6:45
  episodes where. Like we did last time, right?
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  Like Destiny or the Daleks? Exactly or you know, very much
• 6:51
  of in the 60s vein, you know, like we kind of in an in an
• 6:54
  environment and you don't necessarily know what's going
• 6:57
  on. You don't necessarily know you
• 6:58
  what where you are. And actually, crucially in this
• 7:01
  one is is somewhere we should know because it's contemporary
• 7:04
  London, somewhere where the Doctor is all the time suddenly
• 7:09
  made to be a little bit a little bit scary and a little bit kind
• 7:12
  of unnerving a little bit so. So yeah, I just wanted their
• 7:17
  opinion. I think that's a mood piece.
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  I think episode 1 is one of the best episode ones they did like
• 7:22
  in terms of pure atmosphere, that weird feeling of the
• 7:28
  uncanny that like you say, we're she's back on Earth, Sarah, and
• 7:33
  everyone has gone and there's baby toys left in the park, you
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  know, and cars have been ripped apart and they're finding bloody
• 7:42
  corpses on the street. I mean, it's, it's it's quite a
• 7:46
  memorable opener. And then kudos to Paddy Russell
• 7:49
  for saying, well, I don't care. We are going to shoot in London
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  and we're just going to get up at 4:00 in the morning.
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  Get your cameras ready. That's amazing that that that
• 7:57
  that story of her just kind of shooting guerrilla style.
• 8:00
  We're taking one cameraman into the streets and just doing it
• 8:03
  like the crack. Trafalgar there's no one around
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  shoe go go. I think Bill Bags operates on
• 8:09
  the same principles you. Know in the late night Oh yeah,
• 8:12
  ask, ask permission. I have to ask for forgiveness
• 8:14
  afterwards. Yeah, yeah.
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  But he doesn't do it in central London.
• 8:17
  He just any old mall, you know. Well, quick, the guards over
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  there shoot, you know, but this, this genuinely is the sort of
• 8:26
  thing I miss in New Who. And it is slow, you're right.
• 8:29
  But you get to hang with the regulars.
• 8:31
  Yeah. It is building up a mystery
• 8:33
  slowly. It is stylish as fuck because
• 8:37
  there's so much location work in this first episode.
• 8:39
  Yeah. And this would all be done now.
• 8:41
  Well, basically, this is what you get in something like in the
• 8:44
  Forests of the Night and the pre titles.
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  The camera goes up over the thing, and there we go.
• 8:49
  The mystery is solved. Yeah, Yeah.
• 8:51
  Exactly. You would have a brontosaurus
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  outside Big Ben and. And yeah, and they'd be like,
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  oh, invasion of dinosaurs. Yeah, you're totally right, I
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  think. There's space though for this
• 9:00
  sort of mood setting. Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 9:03
  And and, and and what I love. I mean, I think there should
• 9:07
  always be room for that. And I'd without wanting to do
• 9:11
  down the Cotton Bottom series. Well, I mean, the first podcast
• 9:17
  I did for you was was a Jodie Wicker story.
• 9:20
  I particularly love Flux because of that long form storytelling
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  and it's what TV does now. It's like every, every genre TV
• 9:29
  show is is kind of like a complete story, or at least a
• 9:32
  complete story over that season. And it baffles me why Doctor Who
• 9:37
  continues to do a kind of weekly thing where it's different every
• 9:41
  every time. I think having a longer story
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  gives you would give you that time just to kind of sit in it a
• 9:47
  bit longer and explore things and and have a bit of mystery,
• 9:50
  not knowing what's going on. I think it's why the classic
• 9:54
  Doctor Who fans that generally come down quite hard on Jodie
• 9:57
  Time love Village of the Angels. There's all those scenes where
• 10:00
  they're just exploring the village and it feels like a, a
• 10:03
  really beautifully shot Part 1 of a gothic horror, doesn't it?
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  You know, right, Church in the Mist and all of that and the,
• 10:11
  the the horrible Weeping Angels coming out of here.
• 10:15
  Yeah, Yeah, you're right. But it doesn't do it enough, I
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  don't think. We went back to Rusty Davis and
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  suddenly we're back to the point again, you know, and
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  everything's moving so fast. And that is TV now as well,
• 10:26
  though, right? Like it is it is set pieces it.
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  Is well, yeah, that's true. There isn't a lot of time for
• 10:31
  you. You are right.
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  I mean, TV, I mean, yeah, has to, has to a lot of TV is kind
• 10:40
  of designed to be second screen now, isn't it, where they they
• 10:43
  kind of build in the fact that somebody is not paying full
• 10:46
  attention and they're on their phone and say, oh, sad, isn't
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  it? Yeah, yeah.
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  I heard Jamil L Jamil. I can never say her name
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  properly. The the lady who's in the good
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  Place saying that she was at like meetings where they were
• 10:59
  saying to her, we, we, we need, we're going to assume people are
• 11:03
  going to be on their phones. So this has got to be in the
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  information has to come in bite sized chunks really obviously
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  with lots of visual stimulation. And she went, no, fuck that.
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  And she goes, they either pay attention or not, you know?
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  But Can you imagine that for if they made this now, like all
• 11:19
  those shots of empty London and and all you can hear is
• 11:22
  birdsong? And well, you get them, but
• 11:23
  they'd be quick, you know? Right.
• 11:25
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, let's luxuriate
• 11:29
  then, shall we? In the first sort of 20 minutes
• 11:32
  of invasion of the dinosaurs before, let's be honest, I did
• 11:36
  ask you about what's the most impressive sort of large beasts
• 11:40
  in Doctor Who. Oh, we did do that.
• 11:42
  Yeah, well, I didn't make any say that by the end of this
• 11:45
  episode, you know. Oh, a whopper.
• 11:47
  Yeah, absolutely. Dripping fangs, you know.
• 11:52
  All that. Stretched well you intro
• 11:56
  Schluckanders in. Yeah, go for it.
• 11:59
  Thank you so much. Well, we'll go in then.
• 12:01
  In 54321 now. No, I can't help but notice
• 12:08
  every time we've done one of these, you've got a new title
• 12:11
  sequence each time. We have and we.
• 12:13
  And yeah, I quite like this one as well.
• 12:15
  I mean, I like the full full size John Pertwee just
• 12:18
  disappearing here. Always, always strikes me as
• 12:22
  being quite different. I'm surprised they've never done
• 12:24
  it for any other titles. You only ever see the face
• 12:26
  usually. The way he's sort of positioned
• 12:28
  in the middle there, do you imagine that John Pertwee's ego
• 12:31
  could plug up the time vortex like that maybe?
• 12:35
  Just about. I think it's substantial enough.
• 12:38
  Do you know? OK, now I'm watching the sort of
• 12:41
  colourised version which looks like a really bad home video
• 12:45
  that they did. Yeah, straight away when I
• 12:48
  watched this with my wife, she kind of commented on the quality
• 12:50
  of it. It does look a bit ropy, doesn't
• 12:53
  it? But I mean, what can you, what
• 12:54
  can you do? I mean the fact that have they
• 12:57
  colourized this or have they brought the colour out of the
• 12:59
  black and white? I'm never quite sure what the
• 13:01
  process is. I should know.
• 13:05
  I'm not sure because they don't know.
• 13:08
  I don't think they could do the chroma dots thing for
• 13:10
  everything, could they? So I don't know if this is just
• 13:12
  an attempt to colour it as best as possible.
• 13:14
  It's sort of still got a bit of a greyness about it, hasn't it?
• 13:17
  The colours don't pop, but they usually do when you went to
• 13:20
  episode 2 and suddenly our eyes will be bleeding.
• 13:22
  You know that the reprise on the cliffhanger makes a massive
• 13:27
  difference, isn't? It, I mean, look at this, does
• 13:28
  she just happen to find a house that had been completely
• 13:31
  demolished and go that's well. Isn't it?
• 13:33
  Yeah, yeah, I guess so. I mean, I guess, yeah, Who knows
• 13:37
  what that is, But I'm guessing there's still quite a lot of
• 13:40
  World War 2 stuff still not being rebuilt at this time.
• 13:43
  I I don't really know. The abandoned milk truck we see
• 13:46
  you, Russell T Davis and the stolen Nerf.
• 13:48
  Yes, indeed. Yeah.
• 13:50
  I do love that shot of the kids toys and then we shoot around to
• 13:54
  the Tardis materialising. There's something really uncanny
• 13:58
  about those about children playing, but they're not
• 14:01
  playing. But not there.
• 14:02
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh here they are John Perkwee
• 14:06
  and Elizabeth Slayden that are much underrated team I think.
• 14:11
  Yeah, I've, I do. You know what?
• 14:13
  I know everybody loves Sarah Jane.
• 14:16
  I can definitely see why She's not necessarily my favorite, but
• 14:23
  I think I genuinely think she probably works better with John
• 14:26
  than than with Tom. And I know it's.
• 14:29
  Unusual. Yeah, that's an unusual opinion.
• 14:32
  Yeah, well, I think they remember that, what they started
• 14:35
  with, that she's a journalist. And then particularly in this
• 14:37
  story, she's got loads of agency and her journalism is kind of
• 14:42
  brought to the fore, but they kind of forget that later on.
• 14:45
  Her collar is so impressive right now it could be the wings
• 14:49
  of a pterodactyl. Couldn't.
• 14:50
  It when I was an art student in the 90s and there was a there's
• 14:55
  a bit of a thing for the 70s back in the 90s.
• 14:57
  And so I I used to dig out my dad's old 70 shirts with the big
• 15:01
  collars and I'd wear them around until.
• 15:04
  They you look stylish as far. Somebody said it looked a bit
• 15:07
  like Harry Hill, so I stopped watching.
• 15:09
  Stop wearing them. Oh, it wasn't bold.
• 15:11
  Back then you got I wasn't bold. Now it was just the glasses and
• 15:15
  the shirt I think. I do love John Perry.
• 15:18
  I just wandering about on a normal day.
• 15:21
  Yeah, yeah, you're right. There's there's a real
• 15:25
  competence to Sarah Jane in Series 11 and there's a desire
• 15:30
  for her to drive stories and she certainly drives a lot of this.
• 15:33
  Yes, absolutely. Oh, I love all this with the
• 15:37
  looters. So Hulk, man, you can trust Hulk
• 15:40
  to think, OK, so this happened, right?
• 15:43
  Who would be taking advantage of this situation?
• 15:46
  Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, this is something that my
• 15:48
  kids clock this pretty quickly. That is, you know, that's the
• 15:52
  other thing. I wanted to get what a kid in
• 15:54
  1974 would have got from this. And they clocked pretty quickly
• 15:59
  that he's obviously a very shady character and they realised that
• 16:01
  he's a looter and. And when you get to the
• 16:05
  jewellery store, they, you know, could tell quite, you know, that
• 16:08
  suspicions were confirmed that he's a, you know, he's, he's not
• 16:12
  on the up and up. But they would kind of, I think
• 16:14
  they're a little bit held up on that rather than actually trying
• 16:16
  to figure out there's something else going on.
• 16:18
  They would kind of got bits. Why he was doing that, Yeah,
• 16:20
  yeah. I suppose at this point, though,
• 16:22
  like, yeah, all right, there is a mystery.
• 16:24
  The park's empty. And they do keep saying, well,
• 16:26
  where is everybody? The rather fantastic Maybe It's
• 16:32
  Sunday, you know, Great Britain, always.
• 16:33
  Shuts off. Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:35
  Not anymore, mate. All right, Jesus Christ.
• 16:40
  But it could just be that people are on the thief, you know, and
• 16:43
  everyone else was not broken up yet.
• 16:46
  Yeah. Well, that'd be a really odd
• 16:47
  story for Doctor Who to tell the criminals of London, you know.
• 16:51
  It would. It would be this is where I I
• 16:56
  got a little bit a little bit embarrassed.
• 16:58
  That second hand embarrassment. What getting other people to
• 17:01
  watch were these scenes where you know, there is a mystery is
• 17:05
  unfolding. We're talking about how we like
• 17:07
  that and we enjoy it. But when you're watching other
• 17:09
  people, you're kind of aware of how painfully slow this seems to
• 17:12
  be moving. But and it starts to pick up
• 17:14
  right here where we're actually now in central London and
• 17:17
  they're kind of walk into the shops, but we've kind of come
• 17:19
  out of that park area. I like a slow build of pace,
• 17:23
  like as a as a, an older Doctor Who.
• 17:25
  I mean, obviously I'm used to the pace of this.
• 17:27
  I've watched it all my life. But I even now I like when I
• 17:31
  watch something like a horror now and it starts slow and
• 17:34
  builds and builds. But like, this gets grizzly very
• 17:38
  fast, doesn't it? What?
• 17:41
  Yeah. Yeah, I was shocked.
• 17:42
  Well, we're not there yet. We'll get to the the the car
• 17:45
  crash scene. Yeah.
• 17:46
  About the colourisation, people are great fun doing that.
• 17:48
  It's really very graphic, isn't it?
• 17:52
  Right, right. And it's only on and again, like
• 17:55
  it's not something I would have noticed too much watching by
• 17:57
  myself. But when you when you putting in
• 17:59
  your kids in front of it, some kids like, Oh my God, what we
• 18:02
  related? Corpse and this destroyed car.
• 18:04
  This is what Doctor was like back in the day.
• 18:06
  Right, right. Yeah, Suffering those days.
• 18:08
  We watch more, please. Come on.
• 18:10
  Oh, I'm not sure what's going on with Sarah Jane's haircut,
• 18:14
  though. It's sort of the Matthew
• 18:15
  Waterhouse School of hairdressing, isn't it?
• 18:18
  It's very much of the time and I think my mum had very similar
• 18:20
  hair like that back in the day. Let's imagine that you and I are
• 18:25
  in London, OK? And obviously there's dinosaurs
• 18:29
  about. Everyone's been evacuated.
• 18:30
  But Joe Ford and Paul Arthur, they forgot about us.
• 18:33
  We weren't on the list. For some reason, we didn't end
• 18:35
  up in Leeds like everybody else. So where's the 1st place we're
• 18:38
  going to loop, Paul? Oh Blimey, let's go to The Who
• 18:41
  store, shall we, and have a mutual hand in there.
• 18:44
  The Who store? No.
• 18:44
  Big no. If we go to the National
• 18:46
  Gallery, you know, we could get a load of, oh, you're thinking
• 18:49
  if we could buy The Who store. I was thinking of just sneaking
• 18:53
  a few targets, but you you want to steal some, there's some.
• 18:56
  You know the Vermeers tend to get stolen quite a bit.
• 18:59
  You know they used to go missing.
• 19:02
  A couple of Van Gogh's perhaps? Nice.
• 19:04
  Yeah, sorry, I was just saying the other weeks it's fresh in my
• 19:07
  mind. Oh, sorry.
• 19:10
  God, she's, she's on the phone and suddenly you hear the crash
• 19:13
  and then they're dashing out on the streets.
• 19:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and as I say, my kids were
• 19:19
  still a bit hung up on, on the robbery, the looting side of it.
• 19:22
  So they're like, well, has he just crashed?
• 19:25
  My wife had to kind of point out that, you know, there was a
• 19:28
  roar. But also I'd kind of given the
• 19:30
  game away a little bit because I'd pause briefly.
• 19:32
  And like you say, the bloody iPlayer gets the, the flashes
• 19:35
  the title up on the screen. The kids didn't see it, but the
• 19:37
  wife was like, oh, OK, I I know where this is now.
• 19:40
  But yeah, so that kind of ruined my my surprise.
• 19:43
  I don't linger on the corpse too long, but there is blood all
• 19:48
  over his. Face, it's shocking, and it's a
• 19:50
  great startling cut to the. 5:00 in the afternoon, that is.
• 19:55
  For destroying, yes. Oh, here we are.
• 19:57
  Oh, nice cozy unit. Now we're all right.
• 20:00
  Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about this
• 20:01
  because obviously we're going to do episode 2 after this, but
• 20:06
  although we, we look unit now. So it's kind of a little bit
• 20:08
  more cosy, as you say. But the fact that the doctor
• 20:11
  and, and Sarah don't get kind of picked up straight away and
• 20:15
  they're still having to kind of deal with the bureaucracy and,
• 20:17
  and the kind of the crisis in, in London.
• 20:21
  This is a kind of a world away from the cosy unit.
• 20:23
  And that's what makes it a little bit kind of unsettling.
• 20:26
  It's a touch of Season 7 again, isn't it?
• 20:28
  Yeah, yeah, where things weren't quite as I I want to resist so
• 20:33
  cosy again, you know, But, you know, family friendly.
• 20:36
  Yeah, cosy's good. That's what why I enjoy the unit
• 20:39
  stories is that cosiness and why this is a little bit unsettling
• 20:42
  is because you don't have that straight away.
• 20:44
  But within like a state of emergency that they're in right
• 20:47
  now, everybody would be suspected, right?
• 20:50
  If people turn up. And yeah, the fact that they're
• 20:52
  mistaken for criminals, the pair, I mean, look at John
• 20:55
  Perry. What a criminal.
• 20:56
  We'd make the debonair dandy thief without it again.
• 21:02
  Yeah, and from the Army's point of view, like you have got this
• 21:05
  scientific advisor who's not really an employee, then nobody
• 21:08
  really knows it. Why would they?
• 21:10
  Why would they trust him? I think it's great stuff, yeah.
• 21:13
  Especially when they end up alongside that other criminal,
• 21:17
  you know, he tries to sell them out and then they sell them.
• 21:21
  Out, yeah. It's great.
• 21:24
  I love all that stuff. Yeah, but it's also before then
• 21:27
  we're going to see the pterodactyl attack.
• 21:30
  Oh, wait. Yeah, well, that was the the
• 21:32
  what the fuck moment for for the kids was like, hang on, I
• 21:35
  thought this is a story about they didn't say that, of course,
• 21:38
  but that I thought this was a story about robbers in London,
• 21:42
  but suddenly there's a there's a ropey looking pterodactyl in, in
• 21:47
  a, in a barn. I mean, compared to some of the
• 21:50
  atmosphere, I think they almost, if you squint, you can get the
• 21:54
  the bit where it's coming through the window and it's
• 21:57
  gnashing away at you like it's shot fast enough that you're
• 22:00
  like, what? The hell I think that's it is
• 22:03
  like because the action's quite frenetic, the the things moving
• 22:06
  like really, really quickly. And as you say, it's shot
• 22:08
  quickly. So yeah, I think they and that
• 22:10
  noise it makes as well. I think they do get away with
• 22:13
  that, definitely. I love all these locations, so
• 22:15
  back streets and warehouses and Eric's would.
• 22:18
  Man, he'd be having a rat stiffy right now, wouldn't it?
• 22:21
  Watching this, but it's sort of. Yeah.
• 22:24
  Where all the lowlifes hang out. I just like Doctor Who's a bit
• 22:28
  dirty. We have spent a lot of time on
• 22:30
  Earth in scientific institutes. You know that Thai monster.
• 22:36
  Bloody hell, we spent three fucking episodes in that boring
• 22:38
  institute, didn't we, at the start of that?
• 22:41
  If Saywood wrote this, though, there'd be like a convenient
• 22:44
  barrel of oil for the doctor to dump these guys in, and they'd
• 22:47
  be drowning the oil or something like that.
• 22:48
  Oh. The dialogue would be very ripe
• 22:50
  indeed, wouldn't it? And of course, there'd be more
• 22:55
  murders. Oh, 100% yeah.
• 22:58
  Yeah, I think no, there's a there's enough death in this
• 23:02
  without labouring the point in a gratuitous way.
• 23:06
  Yeah, yeah. Well, we just have to go back.
• 23:08
  Did I miss it? No, no, it's coming up in a bit.
• 23:12
  Oh, God, it's so great. It's like it's clearly a person
• 23:18
  doing the voice. Now, look, this is good advice
• 23:22
  for you, Paul. All right?
• 23:23
  If you're ever going to be locked up in a warehouse,
• 23:25
  artist, don't get attacked by a peraduct or.
• 23:27
  Right. Yeah.
• 23:28
  Yeah, absolutely. That looks really good.
• 23:31
  Zooming down the stairs like that.
• 23:33
  I think that's good. Tell your children now.
• 23:35
  All right? Yeah.
• 23:39
  It's not in short enough. I mean, you remember that bloody
• 23:41
  fly from the Green Death? That's.
• 23:43
  Yes. Out in the broad daylight.
• 23:45
  Yeah. On a.
• 23:46
  String, you're right, and that's not that long before this, so
• 23:49
  yeah. Snapping his jaws through the
• 23:51
  glass. Yeah, it looks pretty vicious.
• 23:53
  Yeah, he's like, bloody hell, John Perry.
• 23:55
  Yes, I'll have a bit of that. I I think that's pretty
• 23:59
  impressive and it was a kind of as to say what the fuck moment
• 24:03
  for the kids where they're like, hang on, this is not what I
• 24:05
  thought it was. So I could imagine coming to
• 24:08
  this completely fresh. You would be surprised.
• 24:11
  That was them in that car. Then that was clearly Elizabeth
• 24:15
  Slayden in the front of that car.
• 24:16
  Yeah. John Perk was like, no, no, we
• 24:18
  don't need stunt double s. Ah, now is that Lisa and Chang I
• 24:24
  see before me? Indeed.
• 24:26
  Yeah, yeah. John.
• 24:28
  Bennett, John Bennett. I don't think I realized that
• 24:30
  for a long time. It's a very different
• 24:32
  performance, isn't it? Yeah.
• 24:34
  Very much that. So of course you can give it.
• 24:37
  But that's isn't it, isn't it? Like when you suddenly surprised
• 24:40
  like that, that's when you realise how how good an actor is
• 24:44
  or how, how impressive the skill of acting is.
• 24:47
  I think a lot of people, kind of a lot of people not dismissive
• 24:51
  for acting, but they think they understand it.
• 24:53
  But it's when you can, when you actually see that the difference
• 24:56
  in those two roles and you go, oh wow.
• 24:58
  You know, for me at least, I find that quite mind blowing.
• 25:02
  I think he does a fantastic job because he has to toe the line
• 25:05
  between being the sort of stalwart army guy, but also like
• 25:10
  a bit suspicious as well. He doesn't ever overplay that.
• 25:15
  He's quite, it's quite a subtle performance.
• 25:17
  But he's also got have scenes with Sarah where he's a little
• 25:19
  bit sort of flirtatious and you could believe that somebody
• 25:22
  could warm to him. And I think he just hits all of
• 25:25
  those beats. Yeah, no, I think he's very
• 25:27
  good. And you're right.
• 25:28
  It's the sort of character we've seen loads through the the
• 25:30
  Pertway years up to this point. And and so you kind of think you
• 25:36
  know what you're getting when you when you first meet him.
• 25:39
  But you're right, he does definitely bring different
• 25:41
  layers and he's just kind of sinister enough that you think
• 25:46
  something is going on. Yeah, like you are screaming at
• 25:49
  Sarah. Don't trust him.
• 25:50
  Don't go into that filing cabinet room with him.
• 25:54
  Now this is what I'm going to say is perhaps one of the most
• 25:56
  egregious things for this story for me with the soldiers.
• 26:00
  Egregious. Yeah, with this, with the
• 26:02
  soldiers, worse than the dinosaurs.
• 26:05
  I've I've not got any beef with the dinosaurs in this, but worse
• 26:08
  than that is when they pretend they're.
• 26:10
  Lizards. They ain't cows.
• 26:12
  Well, I've got, Yeah. Well, I've got no scales with
• 26:15
  this. Yeah.
• 26:16
  Scale of the scales with this Yeah but what I I find most
• 26:20
  annoying about the invasion of dinosaurs is when they pretend
• 26:22
  they're shooting a gun and they're clearly just kind of
• 26:24
  waggling the. With a sound effect, it's.
• 26:30
  Like better than that, honestly. Yeah, come on now, we've seen so
• 26:34
  many bullets flying. The purple era.
• 26:36
  Surely you've got some ammo left.
• 26:37
  No. Yeah, I still.
• 26:39
  I think they must have, must have only got to the last season
• 26:42
  and they're like we've got no money for anything.
• 26:43
  Havoc is far in blanks at this point, unfortunately.
• 26:48
  But what I really like is that the Doctor hasn't been treated
• 26:51
  like this on Earth, Yeah, since Inferno episode 3.
• 26:56
  You know, when he goes to the alternative universe and they're
• 26:58
  brutal with him and we've not seen this level of brutality
• 27:01
  towards the Doctor since then. And that idea of martial law in
• 27:06
  the just like, you know, something like that happening
• 27:10
  that as an adult, that kind of scares me the, the, the military
• 27:13
  being in charge. Because it's plausible, right?
• 27:15
  Well, yeah. One move, one wrong opinion.
• 27:17
  You could have a gun in your face.
• 27:18
  Right. Right.
• 27:19
  You know, And they're empowered to shoot.
• 27:21
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, very top.
• 27:25
  He's having the best time here. Look, it's a short stun.
• 27:29
  Yeah. It's when the Brigadier sees the
• 27:34
  pictures and goes, oh, good God. Right.
• 27:38
  He couldn't take it seriously, could he?
• 27:39
  No. And Sarah look like she's
• 27:43
  scared, but she's sort of joining in with him, you know?
• 27:45
  I think he makes her feel safe. Yes, yeah.
• 27:50
  And then, I mean, this is she's quite new at this point.
• 27:52
  I mean, like, you know, so she's been on a on a trip into the
• 27:57
  past and she's still getting used to things.
• 28:01
  What are they accused of? Stingling again?
• 28:03
  What's in the back of that van? Some furs.
• 28:05
  Weren't it furs and jewels? Sarah Jane, she loves her fur
• 28:08
  coat, you know. Well, yeah, yeah.
• 28:10
  She needs it when she needs to infiltrate for her next story.
• 28:13
  You know some rich bitch. In in the yeah, in the fashion
• 28:16
  industry. Oh.
• 28:17
  Imagine that. Could we not see that story?
• 28:19
  It's got a huge cigarillo and a fur coat, you know?
• 28:25
  You've just frozen there, Joe. But you know, still here you
• 28:27
  don't worry. But you know that that's what
• 28:29
  they would have done in canine The company an 80s fashion
• 28:32
  story. Oh, please, I yes, I would be
• 28:35
  delighted with that. Oh, here's that, man.
• 28:38
  Look, we've got nothing to be cheerful about.
• 28:41
  No judge or jury, mate. We're in an episode of Porridge
• 28:46
  now. Right, right.
• 28:47
  What? The fuck is going on?
• 28:51
  Oh my God, what is? This right and he's.
• 28:57
  He's like, hello, popping his head out of the building.
• 29:03
  When he when he pops up, my kids were like, was he in the house?
• 29:06
  They like they, they couldn't they, they?
• 29:08
  It was the second when they're like, is he behind the house or
• 29:10
  so we just couldn't imagine him sitting at home having a cup of
• 29:12
  tea. It's sort of squeezed in through
• 29:14
  the back door so he could sort of, it's a bit like the Doctor
• 29:18
  in Vampires. The finish when he pops out the
• 29:19
  cake, you know, surprise, he's a playful sort of T Rex.
• 29:26
  You know what, Right. OK, yes, That is a truly dismal
• 29:30
  special effects, that dinosaur, right?
• 29:31
  And they very often are. Why do you love all the little
• 29:34
  dioramas? They put them in the buildings.
• 29:37
  You know, you wait till later. We've got one of those sort of,
• 29:40
  you know, where the lollipop lady stands.
• 29:42
  They're in the middle of the road with the little cones and
• 29:44
  everything. Now I, I honestly generally
• 29:46
  think most of the dots of the dinosaurs kind of work quite
• 29:49
  well, maybe where they don't work so much.
• 29:51
  I think at the end of this episode where the difference
• 29:54
  between this, the unit soldier or the the soldiers and the
• 29:58
  model seems a bit that that diorama doesn't quite line up
• 30:02
  with the filming location stuff. Oh.
• 30:03
  I should keep a good eye on it. Yeah, yeah, for me.
• 30:07
  You better not be coming from my man big man T Rex, you know I.
• 30:10
  Mean. Oh no, he's, he's brilliant.
• 30:11
  He's fantastic. Oh my, all he wants to do is
• 30:14
  eat. I mean, I empathize.
• 30:16
  Yeah, of course. Yeah.
• 30:17
  Yeah. Jesus.
• 30:18
  Christ, if I was a dinosaur I'd be eating a lot of you.
• 30:21
  Paul, you look so tasty right now.
• 30:23
  Well, thank you very much. Slab a bit of BBQ sauce on you,
• 30:26
  go down a treat. Well, you'd have a trouble with
• 30:29
  your little dinosaur hands, though you wouldn't be able to
• 30:31
  get. The deal?
• 30:31
  I'd be very frustrated. I'd be very frustrated.
• 30:36
  T Rex. Oh, look, no one can.
• 30:39
  Do you know the comedy like Nicholas Courtney?
• 30:42
  Can they? Oh God, he's like Jesus.
• 30:46
  What does he look like? But actually still by the end of
• 30:52
  this episode they still haven't picked them up.
• 30:55
  So I I for me this doesn't feel like a cosy unit story until
• 30:59
  like 5 minutes into episode 2 still.
• 31:01
  Well, and then it sort of settles into that and then it
• 31:05
  takes Sarah off out into space in inverted commas where it
• 31:08
  totally flaws you again. And then the doctors on the run
• 31:11
  from unit, right. So like it, it almost is defying
• 31:16
  your expectations that if we move this story, like it gets
• 31:19
  you cosy and then it sort of wrenches.
• 31:21
  You away, pulls you pulls it away, Yeah.
• 31:24
  Yeah. Oh, and then we get a diff from
• 31:25
  my lower low. We've got some treats coming in
• 31:27
  this what's happening now. Oh, right, they're trying to
• 31:32
  think how on earth we're going to.
• 31:33
  Escape where the John puts on his best working working class
• 31:38
  accent. What is this like the village
• 31:39
  hall that they're in? I mean, that's quite nice as
• 31:41
  well. Village hall, school rooms.
• 31:43
  They've just taken whatever they can to.
• 31:45
  Yeah, I, I was reading before, before this tonight actually the
• 31:50
  the exteriors of this, they did go to a school to do it, which
• 31:53
  it seems a bit of an odd thing to do, but it does actually kind
• 31:56
  of lend it that real world thing where they've had to had to kind
• 31:59
  of commandeer, you know, like real in places.
• 32:03
  It's a one time set designer on this and he is on the DVD
• 32:09
  commentary and he's like, I was so excited to get Doctor Who and
• 32:14
  then I realised apart from building 1 spaceship set I was
• 32:18
  just doing all the sets I normally do for normal dramas.
• 32:22
  But it's they're good sets, they're detailed, You look.
• 32:26
  The. Classroom that they're in,
• 32:28
  there's stuff all over the walls and like.
• 32:30
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have thought about it.
• 32:33
  Yeah, totally. Oh, let's just not.
• 32:35
  Remind you of the war games? Yeah, When it goes, yes.
• 32:38
  And they just can't talk their way out of it.
• 32:40
  Yeah, yeah, I found it. See.
• 32:44
  Oh, you. Oh God, what a great cotton are
• 32:46
  you? Oh yeah, you're not from
• 32:48
  Crawley. You're having a laugh.
• 32:51
  And yeah. Having a bubble.
• 32:55
  So I think I might have interrupted you then.
• 32:57
  Was you going to say something? No, no, I don't think so.
• 32:59
  I just just, yeah, I this is great.
• 33:03
  I think, as you say, like we said all the way through the
• 33:06
  fact that they can't get to speak to anyone.
• 33:09
  And he and he says, oh, you're, you're friends with the
• 33:12
  Brigadier, are you? Of course you are.
• 33:13
  Yeah. OK, mate, Yeah.
• 33:15
  She goes, we found them, see exactly what the criminal says.
• 33:18
  He goes, yeah. And you're going to hand them
• 33:19
  in, right? Yeah.
• 33:20
  It's great. No one believes them.
• 33:23
  Oh, look at Perwick. I saw.
• 33:25
  I'm scientific advisor to units. I suppose he's no friend of
• 33:30
  yours. Oh how interesting, you've been
• 33:33
  found guilty and looted. Oh, great stuff.
• 33:38
  Oh, yeah. But you know, I've been happy
• 33:40
  for Malcolm Holt to have written every other story in the poetry
• 33:42
  era. I think he's a fabulous writer.
• 33:44
  He is a fantastic writer. I've I, I kind of like, I love
• 33:51
  this one, but I think I tend to like he's quite serious writer
• 33:54
  Hulk. And you know, his themes are
• 33:56
  quite, quite serious. I, I tend to like more black and
• 34:00
  white who I think and there's a kind of layer of kind of grey
• 34:04
  morality around. Oh.
• 34:05
  Really. See, I prefer the the the middle
• 34:08
  ground where you're sort of, you know, but here, you know, you
• 34:11
  get the left wing extremists in this, don't you?
• 34:15
  Right. We should, you know, nowadays
• 34:17
  that's a way where we have an interesting conversation when
• 34:19
  they turn up. Yeah.
• 34:20
  Yeah, sure. Yeah.
• 34:24
  So I mean, I definitely respect what he what he did and I I
• 34:28
  think all, all of his stories are incredibly solid.
• 34:31
  This is definitely my favorite of, of, of his.
• 34:34
  It's. My favorite?
• 34:34
  Yeah, I think this is probably my favorite as well.
• 34:37
  Well, it's just got a great idea as heart, isn't it?
• 34:41
  I mean, that is a fantastic idea, isn't it?
• 34:44
  Having just like bringing dinosaurs back and plopping them
• 34:48
  into our into our contemporary world.
• 34:50
  Unusually for Barry Letts, he said that he did the Philip
• 34:54
  Hinchcliff line and said, can we do this?
• 34:57
  Yeah, Normally he didn't care. He just went, right, we'll do
• 35:00
  it. Yeah, we'll give it a try.
• 35:01
  We've got these new Chroma Key effects and can we do this?
• 35:04
  And they went, yes, we can give you very sophisticated models of
• 35:08
  dinosaurs. And he goes and they lied to me.
• 35:13
  Oh, Barry. I mean, when that's what you're
• 35:16
  hanging the whole story on. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'll
• 35:21
  never, I'll never knock Doctor Who for being ambitious.
• 35:23
  But like, you know, we did come of monsters.
• 35:26
  That wasn't that much longer before this.
• 35:28
  What made him think that other people could do dinosaurs any
• 35:31
  better than the BBC could? Or.
• 35:33
  At least have a look at them you know before.
• 35:36
  Yeah, yeah, figure out. Yeah, spend the money first.
• 35:39
  Even if you're not going to use them and you're going to do
• 35:41
  another story, you can throw dinosaurs in somewhere.
• 35:44
  Yeah, yeah, it is an odd choice that.
• 35:47
  Matters very wooden go into the detention centre, don't you
• 35:53
  think? Well, there's so many good
• 35:55
  performances in this. I could, I could forgive it
• 35:57
  because you get loads of loads of good performances in this.
• 35:59
  But here's where I was saying we came into the cliffhanger and I
• 36:02
  was saying where the the filming location stuff doesn't quite
• 36:06
  line up with the diorama. It looks kind of a bit
• 36:08
  different, You know, just where they're standing.
• 36:11
  Doesn't feel quite like. What I think does really work
• 36:14
  really well though, is whenever you see people in the foreground
• 36:18
  and then dinosaurs in the background.
• 36:19
  I think all of those shots. Yeah, there's quite the
• 36:22
  Stegosaurus. Yeah, in 2 is pretty good, yeah.
• 36:26
  You see at the end of this when you see the 2 two soldiers kind
• 36:29
  of kneeling down and and then the dinosaur in the in the back,
• 36:32
  but John peeping for the. Oh boy, oh boy.
• 36:40
  My God, look at those teeth. Good God.
• 36:44
  I mean, you know. What it is, looking at it now,
• 36:45
  it's the sunny sky there in the diorama, and then when you see
• 36:49
  the soldiers, it's kind of the slightly grey film.
• 36:51
  The funny thing about that dinosaur is if there's no
• 36:54
  fluidity to it, there's no movement, it's clearly just a
• 36:58
  dull that can only be sort of tipped forward, and that's.
• 37:01
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. When when we start the next
• 37:03
  episode and he's he's been driven off by the the fire and
• 37:08
  he doesn't turn around to kind of walk away.
• 37:10
  No, the whole. Body moves, Yeah.
• 37:15
  God Almighty. I mean they tried, right?
• 37:17
  But it's iconic. I mean, that is that's as iconic
• 37:20
  an image of Doctor Who for me is I know like, you know, Daleks
• 37:25
  bursting out of the the wall in Destiny, which we talked about
• 37:28
  last time. It is one of those images that T
• 37:32
  Rex, especially in Part 3, where he's bursting out of the wall
• 37:36
  Well. It's the sort of thing, right,
• 37:38
  that when you're younger that is just agonising because you're
• 37:42
  scared someone's going to walk in the room and see it.
• 37:45
  But when you're older, say in your 40s, right, and you're
• 37:49
  watching it with a mate over a Zoom call and it's just the best
• 37:52
  thing in the world because you can just laugh your head off and
• 37:55
  enjoy like we are. I know, I know you've watched
• 37:58
  it. We're sort of over this stuff
• 38:00
  now, aren't we? When When it's just us.
• 38:03
  Most mostly over it. Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 38:05
  Like and and I was a bit surprised I reacted a bit that
• 38:08
  way with with the wolf and kids. But like, it's only really my
• 38:11
  wife who reacted to the dinosaurs and she had a lot for
• 38:14
  them. Like, I don't know if I said it
• 38:16
  on this, on this or before the call, like as far as my kids are
• 38:19
  concerned, if this could be from 1974 or 1984 or 1994, that it's
• 38:24
  all still old to them. And as far as they're concerned,
• 38:27
  all old stuff looks a bit janky. So they're, they're not
• 38:29
  expecting anything else, you know, so.
• 38:32
  What I really, really love about this first episode is not only
• 38:36
  do you get the sort of very well known, famous London locations
• 38:42
  sort of empty, then like I said, you get all the dingy warehouses
• 38:46
  and things like that and nefarious activity happening in
• 38:49
  backstreet jewellers and stuff. And then right at the end there,
• 38:52
  they're literally going around just normal streets, and you
• 38:56
  don't see normal streets. Weirdly, for a period where so
• 38:59
  much is set on contemporary Earth, you or maybe near future
• 39:04
  Earth, maybe the 80s, it hasn't quite been Dunos.
• 39:06
  Yeah. You don't see just normal
• 39:09
  houses. Now you're right.
• 39:10
  Here, very often you don't see carnivals popping their heads
• 39:13
  out of them. How is all about scientific
• 39:16
  establishments and bait, you know, like big research
• 39:20
  institutes and in heavy industrial kind of places.
• 39:24
  And it isn't about that. You know, modernity isn't isn't
• 39:27
  about that suburban. You know the those scenes that
• 39:31
  will be saw at the beginning with the park.
• 39:33
  You don't see that stuff. In fact, really, you don't see
• 39:35
  that stuff at any point during Classic Who Really?
• 39:38
  Or. Why?
• 39:40
  Why would we got there in survival?
• 39:41
  Wasn't it when we landed on? That finally, yeah, we were
• 39:44
  like. What the hell is this?
• 39:46
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's probably yeah,
• 39:50
  that one of the only examples I can think of.
• 39:52
  And then Russell saw that and went right.
• 39:54
  That's the that's the blueprint for the way forward, yeah.
• 39:57
  Yeah, you're right. It could be on the on our
• 39:59
  street, which is great. It's also as well that episode,
• 40:02
  the ultimate example, I think. I don't think there's a more
• 40:05
  vivid example of the everything else kind of works.
• 40:09
  The direction is good, the acting is mostly good.
• 40:13
  Yeah, that one special effect. It's just like that's that's
• 40:17
  your money shot and you didn't have the money.
• 40:20
  And that's Doctor Who in a nutshell for me.
• 40:22
  Even when you've got the perfect story, I don't know, Genesis of
• 40:26
  the Daleks, That fucking clown is there in The Cave.
• 40:29
  You're gonna have a clam, Yeah. The caves went Rosani, that
• 40:32
  stupid monster. Caves.
• 40:35
  You know, like it, you just nothing is ever perfect in
• 40:39
  Doctor Who. Kind of why I love it as well.
• 40:42
  Yeah, I mean, but those are the things that we talk about.
• 40:45
  We talk about those kind of imperfect bits, you know?
• 40:48
  You know, things are more interesting with the imperfect
• 40:51
  stuff, isn't it? I don't think you see, I don't
• 40:54
  know if Star Wars fans sit around talking about like,
• 40:57
  they'll talk about the the law and like, but do they talk about
• 41:00
  like when, when I, you know, like that lightsaber effect
• 41:04
  didn't look quite right? I don't know, do they?
• 41:06
  I don't know. They're an angry bunch.
• 41:08
  You know, They are an angry bunch.
• 41:10
  They're really angry. Good grief.
• 41:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:13
  I don't. Don't.
• 41:14
  Don't roll and pull. All right, what?
• 41:17
  I'm coming over here. We're alright with our ropey
• 41:20
  effects, thank you very much. Well, I couldn't be more excited
• 41:23
  to go and watch episode 2 and see some more dinosaur.
• 41:25
  You know, by the end of the story, Paul, I can promise you
• 41:28
  dinosaur on dinosaur action. How exciting.