Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 732: Predator Management, California Style

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Ep. 732: Predator Management, California Style · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
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• 0:18
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• 0:24
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  Speaker 1: out at first light dot com. F I R S
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: T L I T E dot com. Everybody joined today
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: by let me tell you something real quick, So just
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: hang tight, Devin. Just a lot of things going on.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I can't tell my main story, which I just told
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell my other stories. So, uh, you don't
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: have a look.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: You have kids, right, two little girls.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Dev od Od Sorry, devn Od's here from b h A.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: We've met, we're like phone friends, but we haven't met
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: in person till now. He's the he's the Western Policy
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: and Conservation I am doing the intro. He's the Western
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Policy and Conservation manager at back Country Hunters and Anglers.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Devon and I met when I was doing a little
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: article for the La Times about the black black bear
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: management in California, which we're going to speak to today
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: because it's sort of emblematic and indicative of things that
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: happen all around the country. So even if you're not
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: from California, she's listening. I was telling my favorite story
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: in the world, which I don't want to tell just
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: out of respect for the town, but I'll tell this
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: story so respect for the town. Yeah. Everything, here's a
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: weird deal though, man, like a weird like. Listen to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: what happens to me last night on what was last night? Thursday? Yes, okay,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: on Monday, we're gonna take our little our two little
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: ones to ice cream. But then we changed our mind,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: and man, they had a fit, a fit.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: You still call them little ones.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: There's an older one. There'll always be the younger ones.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I can tell you call them. There's like an older one.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: Little ones are like.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: The younger ones. There's a ten or twelve And the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: thing I met him, I don't know what the fifteen
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: was doing. He's got like a girlfriend now and everything,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: but the ten and twelve, what was he doing? I
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: don't know what he's doing. The ten and twelve. Somehow
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: it was like, we're gonna go to ice cream. Then
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: we renegged, which just pissed them off. I mean, it's
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: a bit. That's a great way to piss a kid off.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So my wife is going out with her friend at
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: dinner the next night, so she just then says, your
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: dad will take you tomorrow. So now I'm into that.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I go down there and they're like, like, when you
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: take a little if you don't have kids, if you
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: take kids the ice cream, you're gonna argue about, like
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: what all cone everybody's gonna have. And I'm going and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I make a joke like there's like the little ship
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: and cone, like I don't know what they call it, And
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I make a joke like do you have They didn't
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: know I was joking, but I'm like, what do you have?
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Just a mess of my kids? I said, what do
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you have? That's like a step down from that baby coan.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: They didn't get the joke. So anyhow, we agree that
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: we're all gonna get the fucking that they're the not
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that word, We're gonna get the waffle and like so
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: by two little ones, it was just them. Yeah, they
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: get they get the waffle cone, and I'm like, I'll
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: have the same thing. They then tell me we're out. Oh,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: so I now get stuck with the old kind when
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I was a kid.
• 4:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I would have bought two of those, just to
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: make a point that you can have whatever you want.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Check this that that's the pre story. Last night, we
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: go down to the ice cream place. This time it's
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the two little ones. The other one was getting his
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: head shaved at a party, the older one, the two
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: younger ones, Me, my wife, my two younger ones, my
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: daughter's two friends, my buddy, matt Cook. We're in line.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Rosemary hurts you bodies, Matthew, my wife all get that cone,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: the waffle cone. I'm not kidding you. I ordered. She goes,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: we're out of those. I'm like, you don't say I
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: said I was here there night and that happened. And
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: my daughter's like, she thinks you're being mean. Something's going
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: on that ice cream place that I don't understand. I
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: need to get to the bottom of it. What I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: need to do is find someone to come down later
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  Speaker 1: and order that cone.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: See if they're just hiding it from you.
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  Speaker 1: There's something fishy at what's that place called Genuine Probably
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: it's right by the elementary school.
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  Speaker 2: They got a polaroid with your picture on there that
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: says no cone yee, I love it.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: It's sweet peas. Genuine Genuine's too. Like you go there,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: it's tons of people that aren't even in the right
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: demographic to be out for ice cream.
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah likes ice cream?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm in the demo because I have children.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: If you go to Genuine, it's people in their like
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: late twenties, early thirties lined up for ice cream. I'm like,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: should you people all be lined up for a drink?
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: But that goes back to what I mean. Everybody loves
• 5:58
  Speaker 5: ice cream.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: It's really good, and drinking culture is endangered.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: It's like if I go to yoga with my wife
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and there's a like a dude there, like thirty five
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: whatever there by himself.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I'm I was like, you come on, come on, I
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: don't think that.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Come on, let's talk straight.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Let's talk stream Demographic's an ice cream demographic is not
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: dude there is and like who's not in it?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Randal? If I see Randall down getting the ice cream,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna think, like I don't want to say what
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna think.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but there's also things When you look at me,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: you'd be like, the guy's squarely in the ice.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Cream demographic.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: Walking around wearing basketball shoes. Yeah, it doesn't really fit
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: in his jeans.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not a big government guy, but I don't think
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I don't think there should be like a like a
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: little card do you get from the government that like
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: says you have business at the ice cream place? And
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: it would be like, like, how old are you? You
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: should be eating a pint.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: I actually, actually, when I walk into the ice cream place,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: I like to think that the people behind the counter
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: are thinking, good, finally somebody who knows what they want
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: to look me in the eye.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: They're not going to fight with the people they came
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: in with over the counter. They don't want to taste
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of everything.
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, actually I'm the one who wants everything.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my wife embarrassed me last night. She sampled
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: two things before she made an order, and I was
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: getting embarrassed by I can't stand that two samples. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm gonna have to ask you.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: Was the order one of those two or did she
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: order something different?
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: That's settled. That's really embarrassing. Yeah, I was embarrassed.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: That's when you should have slipped in there and ordered yours.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: You would have got a cone.
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  Speaker 1: She walked out with a waffle, right. But the funny part,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: this is the main part of the story. Like at
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: the elementary school is right there. At the end of
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the year, they wheel all the junk, all the kids leave,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: They just they wheel it outside. I'm not kidding here,
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  Speaker 1: like all the lost and found. When they're done, they're done,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: like a bad breakout. So the playground, like if you want,
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  Speaker 1: if you need to outfit a kid the day school ends,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: go to the playground. It's all out there.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, there's some nice clothes in this town, too, real
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: nice clothes.
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  Speaker 1: We go down there and my kids like, we're gonna
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: go to the playground. I'm like, nah, man, don't go
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: to the playground. But my wife overrode me, and so
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: we go down to the playground and walk in through
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: the open gate. There's kids all over playing and all
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the clothes, and the first thing my wife lays eyes
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: on is our boys clothes. We retrieve three hoodies and
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: I pick up a pair of muck boots and I
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: know my own work. There was like a pair of
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: muckboots that had an L shape cutting them, and I
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: had sewed them and put the aprem patch. I pick
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: up these muck boots. I'm like, that's my work. She
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't even have a recollection of owning these muck boots.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So we walk out there and then everybody's probably thinking,
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  Speaker 1: like all the other people are probably thinking, we're like
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: shopping off the free rack. I wanted to yell out,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: like this is actually our stuff, hands off, Yeah, like
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: we're not just taking this is our kid, like, this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is our stuff in this playground. M m yeah. Good.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Very eventful evening, Very eventful evening. Devin o' days here
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: from Badcountry Hunters and Nangers, Western Policy and Conservation Manager
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: to talk about blackburs. Can we talk about blackbers outside
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: of California for a minute? Yeah, of course. Is this
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: your picture of the giant black bear?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: No, that's not me, that's my buddy Ned.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: But I'm saying you you you gave us the picture.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Phil, pull that picture up. That's a nice
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: black bear. That's gotta make ari Ei proud. Yeah, you know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: because they might wonder if anyone ever does anything legitimate
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: in those packs and then there it is right there.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I wonder how they'd react if you came into the
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: store and asked them if they had tips for washing
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: blood out of their backpack.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know the hydrogen peroxide tip. Do you know
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that someone was saying that for you folks who don't
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: know if if you, if you have a bloody pack
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and put put hydrogen peroxide in the spray bottle anything
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you got blood on? My god, does it come.
• 10:27
  Speaker 6: Out that you don't want to use the heavy duty
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: peroxide blood hates.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't use like the stuff. Use the bleach of skull,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: which is what percent forty five?
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so forty or something like that.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, we could do a whole show on hydrogen peroxide.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I could have used it like that time.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Something, or do you have a skull you're cleaning?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I gotta I couldn't find my normal pack that put
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: my laptop in, so I just brought my hunting pack
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: on the airplane. And when I got to the airport,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I noticed there's just blood all over it.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I thought, I'm sure I was gonna get pulled to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the side. Sure, man, I'm gonna use that trick next time.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I got pulled to the side of their day.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: And before I got pulled over, I had a big tongue,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a buffalo's tongue frozen and the guy used the term like,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: we need to look at your pack, and he used
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the term organic mass. So the other day in catch Can,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I had like a chunk of deer meat roast that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: was left over, and he's like, I need to check
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: your pack and I said, I think there's an organic
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: mass in there, and he goes, you know that term.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I learned it from new people. I don't know that naturally.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, three percent. So if you're going to bleach
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: a skull, you brush on the pay the gel stuff,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: which is like heavy duty. It's what it's what skin. Yeah,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it's what people use when they're to bleach hair. And
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: it also when you go look on Amazon and you're
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: trying to buy the really heavy duty hydrogen peroxide that'll
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: bleach a skull, it's you don't they have it as
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: is to sanitize greenhouse equipment. I don't know that either.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: It must kill like molds and funguses and stuff on
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: greenhouse equipment on your backpack. This is a Yani trick.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: You put hydrogen three percent hydrogen peroxide in a spray
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: bottle and spray it, let it sit a minute, and
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: turn a hose out on it. I don't know. Blood
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: hates hydrogen peroxide hates it. If you're on blood thinners,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: just drink hydrogen peroxide. Save money. But here's the catches.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Someone before you do that, someone told me that it Uh,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: I think it can degrade the stitching. Yeah, that's what
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I was told you.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think like a lot of pack companies will
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: tell you just to use water, do like a long
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: cold soak, yeah, because they don't want to be responsible
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: for their stitching falling apart.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: A thing that I'll do when I can. I did
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it there. In fact I did the other day in Alaska.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Is I'll put rocks. I'll just put some big rocks
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: in my backpack and throw it in the river. Yeah,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: or throwing a fast flowing creek if the blood's so fresh,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and when you come back a few hours later, it's
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: just just the cold blood, the cold water running, cold water,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: care free. So Devin, you're gonna do the opposite of
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: spot burning, Like you're like, come to my state.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got we got plenty of bears, so come
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: to your state. That's what the department is talking about too,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: is figuring out how to get more people to come.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You know, how do we entice these out of state hunters,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: because California, in most face, it's not exactly the the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: out of state dream destination of most people on their
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: their wish list, unless you're trying to get that like
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: thirty year sheep tag.
• 13:47
  Speaker 6: What's a non resident bear tag cost in California?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Non resident bear tag is a great question. I gotta
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: pull that up for you. I think it's a couple
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: hundred bucks.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: That's not bad.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I know, you know what. I know what the problem
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: is why they won't go there and they don't know
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and I don't think you know, you want to know
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: what it is. I want to know that the primary
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: vegetation is poison oak. Me and Yannas have like conscious
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: when we're thinking about hunting in California. The number one
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: thing on our mind is like, but do I really
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: want to have poison oak for three months? Because we're
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: very we are very susceptible.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I am too.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Three eighty seven for a black bear tag non resident.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: I bet you in this picture if you look carefully,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: everything you're looking at is poison. You gotta be rugged.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Like that's the thing that people don't think about. If
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you're susceptible, you gotta be prepared to be miserable. I'm Michael,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I got I have the skin of a little baby
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: when it comes to poison. Oak Oh Kids podcast is out.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Came out on January thirty, which hasn't happened yet.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: January.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Now what am I saying? What was the other j month?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: June July?
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so in the future when you're listening to this,
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: episode two is out and importantly it's on its own feed,
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: just like last season. You can't listen to it in
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: the Meat Eater podcast feed. You have to please go
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: and listen to the subscribe Exactly how old are.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Your daughters, Devin two and five? Have they ever listened
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: to the Media to Kids podcast? Just lying?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: So it's their favorite podcast? Yeah, they beg me to
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: listen to it every week.
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: Phil's masterpiece.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Don't be being a smart ass. It's a good podcast
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: for kids. You should play it for.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Them, all right, you know, part of their education. I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: am gonna have to get them the uh the Crayfish.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Book though, sure I'll sign it for you.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when you when you called me talk about black
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: bears whatever. Last year of the year before I was
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: actually at a hittie pool filled with crayfish, a couple
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: hundred of them I got. I got a good story
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: there too. We had one of them actually escape, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: then we found him the next day and my wife
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: we had eaten all them. We boiled all the crayfish and.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: That last crafish and so them.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: We were like, you know, we had the whole neighborhood over,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: which is funny too because this is San Diego, and
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: everyone's like, where'd you get the baby lobsters with claws?
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mud bugs their mudbugs.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: But we had one escape and then my wife's like, well,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we we got to keep him now, and
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: uh so he became Stowy Stowy the stowaway. He lived
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: in a little flower vase for a couple of weeks,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: and I was like, well, this isn't cool. We got
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to get him in an aquarium at least, you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: we're gonna eat him or we're gonna give him an aquarium.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And then ended up going out catching more crayfish with
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: the we're doing like removals with the Forest Service where
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: they have some endangerous pecies' habitat, and did a whole
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: nother boil, got another one, gave him a little friend.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: They made it a little baby crayfish. Then my neighbors
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: we had a shitty little aquarium. Then my neighbor gave
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: me this amazing tank, and so we had this like mansion.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And so Stowey went from you know, hot in this
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: little flower vase to an aquarium to a mansion. He's
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: got a white family, a bunch of kids. Then you know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: this is like the American dream.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: This is where it goes off the rails of aquaculture.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: But you know what, I wonder though him having witnessed
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the carnage that he witnessed, I wonder if he still
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: hates you.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, I mean certainly. Well, there was like like if I.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Came in here, I come in here and I kill everybody
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: in here in this room, but I take you and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I'm like, now I'm gonna set you up at a
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: sweet house and a wife. Are you like, uh, man,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: this guy's great or you like this guy's a monster cause.
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: He did you did kidnap him originally?
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: And then if you have children, do you stare at
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: them and know in the back of your mind something's
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: gonna happen someday. I've seen it before. I don't want
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: to let you in on the secret. But he has
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: to live with that that guilt, you know that fore
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: knowledge of what it waits, You can't interview that crayfish.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: You just died.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: This is this is.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: It just died like three days ago. This is the
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: eulogy because this is like the American dream of a crayfish.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: But you know, you know, things got really sour when
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: you know he and you know his his mate. They
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: got into a tizzy. She ripped off his arm and
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: then somehow she escaped, which blows my mind. Our babysitter
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: found the female walking across the kitchen floor, put it
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: back in the tank, and you know, this was too
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: much for Stowe. He couldn't handle it, so he killed
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: her and then it was just him with the kids.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And then one of the kids got revenge on him
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: once the kid got big enough and killed him.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Just like this is the story of.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: It really is life and death on the farm.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: But like if you guys, if if people out there,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: if you hear someone say like Oedipus or the Oedipal complex,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: it's that like that you'll did you want to kill
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: your dad and marry your mom? Oedipus didn't know he
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: was adopted, and someone comes to him like a soothsayer, says, hey,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: heads up, you're gonna kill your dad and marry your ma.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: He's like, to hell, I am and takes off and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: goes to a new town because he thinks his parents
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: are the wrong people. So he shows up in the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: new town, probably kills a guy, marries a lady. M's
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: real mind, dad, Just that's just a little bit of background.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And then doesn't he take his eyes out?
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Doesn't he take his own eyes out rather than.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Look at what he's done. That's that's a that's a
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: terrible story. I mean, that's a lot of ups and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: downs in that story. So where are you at now?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: You have just the babies?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I mean they're not babies anymore. Now we got the
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: new you know, there's a there's a power struggle going on.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: It's kind of you in there. There's a and we
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: got a bunch of fish too, except I thought the
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: crayfish would eat the fish, but they're just not interested.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Years ago I did something real similar. We gotta get
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: to the show in a minute here, but we went out.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: This was a want. We went out and chopped a
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: huge hole in the ice in a river where we
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: knew that there was a lot of crayfish in the summer,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and flipped all the rock like chopped that you could
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: get in with waiters and walk around in this hole,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and we catch a ton of crayfish that are comatose under.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: The rocks, like out of it.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: The water is so cold, bring them in, put them
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: in a wash tub and the mint they warm up.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: They're all just super energetic, like instantly had a crawfish boil.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Took one little dinker that was too small and put
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: it into a quane. With my roommate's little baby. He
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: had this crazy little white, some kind of sinking frog,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: like a little white aquarium frog that would live at
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the bottom of the aquarium. He was worried about it,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: so we took the crayfishes pincers away from him and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: put him in there. He gradually grows back a little
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: mini claw, and one day my roommate peers in there,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: and here's that son of a bitch land in the
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: bobby of the aquarium, holding that dead frog.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Like you caught it the whole time. He has grown
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: that clawback.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Eyeball that one of these days, one of these days,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you know, the liquor. If Clay Newcomb's listen, here's a
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: story that has everything that Clay would like. The Kentucky
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Man Kentucky man arrested for releasing a raccoon into a
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: business months after fleeing police on a mule. H only
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: in Kentucky. I know that Tom Murray, Kentucky. A man
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: from Murray can. I've spent a bunch of time there.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: A man from Murray, Kentucky, was wrestled last week after
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: police say he released a raccoon inside of business. This
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is the same man, just months after the same man
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: was arrested for attempting to evade police officers on a mule.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Why can we hear him on the show?
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: I can think of a few reasons.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Radio Live.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy wrote in Yeah, they're having a baby,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and they got it narrowed down to two names, Yannis
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: and Callahan. I mean this must be a super fan. Well,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: well it's half he's half he's like Yannis because of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Yanna's Callahan is just coincidence because it's after Dirty Harry,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Dirty Harry. So it's like cal is like just caught
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the crossfire. I'm still that anyhow, this is the guy
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: writing in Brad anyhow, I was telling the person I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: help out add an auction in Coldwater, Michigan, that we
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: were between Yannis and Callahan's. So this this individual Brad
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: is explaining to someone, Hey, we're gonna name it Callahan
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: or Yiannis. He's talking to a gal. The gal then
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: informs him back to the letter. She then informed me
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that she knew a Yannis and said his name is Janice.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Who tell us hmmm? She said he was a real
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: estate appraiser in Michigan who she worked with as an attorney.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: A couple of things. If you meant a building inspector,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: is that the same thing? No? No, if you meant
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the building inspector. Jannis's dad, also named Janis, is a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: building inspector in Michigan. But what you're overlooking is that
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: all Latvians are named Janus. Mm hmmm. They all are
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: named Giannis. So there are some hundreds of Giannis phutellos
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: is running around.
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: So it may or may not be Yanni's dad.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: It could be wonderful.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: I think that it's he's a building inspector. This woman
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: calls him a realist. I feel like that's rather running around. Yeah,
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: I mean, there still could be too many, but I
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: feel like this checks out. I'm not going to disagree
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: with you on the point that there are too many.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Honest is very confusing, so.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Is Brad hoping we come up with an answer for
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: him here.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: I would name it Steve waiting for that which dude's
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: name Steve or dying breed man.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: I would say, just know that if you name it Giannis,
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: you're also naming the child Janice as well.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and Siri won't know how to spell it.
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: And you're gonna you're gonna condemn him to a life
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: of explaining how to spell his name to every uh
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: like like restaurant host or hostess, every d m V person.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: No one believes him anyone. If he goes into coffee
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: shop and he tells one person like they're like, what's
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the name for your order, he'll be like, Yannis, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: then they'll be like, hi, I spell it. He'll spell
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: it for him, and then it goes to the next
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: person who yells out when their orders ready. There's no
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: way it's not going to be Janis. I was staying
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: there with Yannis one time, and we're weighing bags to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: get on a charter plane and there's a guy there
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: taking everybody's weight. So he looks he's saying people's names,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and he goes Janis, and Yanna steps forward and he
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: goes it's Yannis and stands on the scale, and the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: guy looks at Yannis and looks at the guy next
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: to him and says Janie one seventy two. He's like,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: don't bullshit me, buddy, I know what your name is. Yeah,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's name that kid Doug during uh
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: doubling down on something here, I was goofing on Doug
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: when I was when I last time I was with Doug,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: he was telling my kids a story was he was
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: trying to convince my kids that you should always back in,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: like your car. Apparently in the oil field they called
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: it first move forward. Like Doug always back no matter
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: how much hassle he has to go through, he always
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: backs in. He always claimed, like he says that his
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: dad got attacked by his own chainsaw. And Doug's telling
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: my kids like, if my dad hadn't backed in, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be alive. Even though he decks died old age,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: but he would have died that day had he not
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: backed in, and I'm telling my kids, like listen, Doug
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: wants you to back in. That didn't make the difference
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: between Doug's dad dying or not that day, because he
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: drove down the road Doug rode in doubling down. I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: do Here's Doug, I do want to crack you about
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: something with my dad's chainsaw story. He didn't drive himself
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to the hospital. He was barely able to get to town,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: so literally every second was important. Had there not been
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: an EMT in downtown kaz at that moment when he
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: pulled in and fell out of the truck, and had
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the ambulance not been just down the road, he would
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: have died. Maybe we should reenact it sometime when you
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: are here.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure what that means.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Actually, when he does our meet it or sheds shoot,
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he's going to take you to He's going to take
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: the viewer to the spot where Doug's dad was attacked
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: by the chainsaw. I had turned Doug onto a book,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: one of the best I've read in a long time,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: called The Land of Breakers. It's an old book. Holy cow,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: is it good. It's about It's like the first it's
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: kind of after the long hunters. But it's like the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: first farmers to begin moving into the Appalachian valleys, and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: it's like the story of farmers trickling into this valley
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: in Appalachia and establishing corn patches. They're hunting bears all
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the time. It's a phenomenal novel. Doug is surprised I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: liked that book. He's delighted that I liked it and
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: says the surprise comes from the amount of personal reflections,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: human condition and even romance. Wonderful book. Have you read it?
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: I haven't, I said to Doug. Because the knowledge about
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: trees that the author has that he then gives to
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the author's very knowledge about purposes for wood. A guy
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: wrote in about something that I don't understand.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Randall and I were trying to figure this out earlier.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Basically, someone has submitted a formal petition to the EPA.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's kind of an interesting concept, but you can see
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: where it's going. Someone submitted a formal petition to the EPA,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: which probably happens every day, but requesting that humans become
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: wildlife officially, be like, why are humans not officially considered
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: as wildlife? Because he the play, would hear it would
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: be for regulatory effects, meaning that you wouldn't be able,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: like there's certain things you can't do that would be
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: damaging to wildlife, and you wouldn't be able to do
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: certain things to human habitats because it would be like
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: you'd be affecting wildlife. I gather that's the play. It's
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: a very interesting concept.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Is IFNA is in long enough already, Man, that's gonna
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: really a wrench in the system.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see a thousand ways this isn't gonna go
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: down because I know they're gonna do lethal control in
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: overpopulated areas, you know, I mean, like there's a lot.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: It's just an interesting concept.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure I want to back hunting as
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: a management strategy.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: In it it's more like a barroom conversation than a
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: yeah yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I As a parent, especially when kids were younger, I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: always tried to like over accentuate to them that we
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: were an animal. M M. I would be like a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: lot of animals, like bears, like us humans, right. I
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: would always do that to sort of get them in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: that frame of considering us as animals. But that's not
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: gonna fly. Uh. There's a move to how far who
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: knows this story well, guy says, I'll just gonae with
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the guy says, because this is a fascinating topic and
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: it bleeds into what we are going to talk about today.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Reinstatement of black bear hunting in Florida. Longtime listener, first
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: time caller? Isn't it from Rush Limbaugh's show, longtime listener,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: first time caller.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's Rush specifically. I thought it
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: was just sort of a convention of talk radio.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I remember limbaud have you would call in and say dittos,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and that meant all that stuff because every caller is
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: like a long time listen to your first time caller,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: love the show, So then it would become you just
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: call and go like dittos and then just get to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the point. Florida has been in the process of evaluating
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and getting public input about reinstatement of a quota black
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: bear hunt. It has been a wildly controversial topic and
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: has been gaining huge traction in the media. Lately. He's
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: attached the proposal from the Black Bear Commission, going on
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: talking about more and more bear interactions in Florida. Bear
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: interactions and bear sightings and places where they didn't historically
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: have them beach visitors, tourists. Uh. The other day he
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: took us first bear attack call two weeks ago made
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: national news. He says, I know the meat Eater crew
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: normally handle more Midwest and northern issues. That is completely untrue.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: Go all over the.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Place that I think hurts unintentionally. That hurts my heart.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: We talk about Florida more than any other state.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: We do.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they have ice cream down there.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but people with kids, like dudes like Randle
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: down there, lock you up. I had a person Florida
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: one time tell me like cold, stone cold. She's probably
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: like twenty three, twenty four year old woman, tell me
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: stone cold, like she's telling me a fact. She told
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: me Florida is the free estate. That was just wondering
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: how you calibrate that, Like how you measure that? Yeah, man,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I this is like a little this is a little
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: bit Machiavelian. But like if you want, if you were
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a bear hunter in Florida and you wanted to take
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: like a Machiavalian approach to pursuing your interests, you would
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: almost hope not for bear attacks. You would hope for more.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Conflict bear conflict because.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: This is what happened in New Jersey.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, that's what I was gonna say. It's just
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: like a.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Real run in New Jersey. New Jersey had historically had
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: bear hunting. Through poor management, bear numbers were greatly reduced.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: They did a pause on bear hunting and some other moves.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: They rebuilt bears to where they had the highest density
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: in the country, did a bear hunt. The anti hunters
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: had a shit fit. Their governor was.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: Murphy's first Murphy, Phil Murphy.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Phil Murphy campaigns on an anti bear hunting plank in
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: his platform. Gets elected. They shut down the bear hunt
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: New Jersey. First like they.
• 34:24
  Speaker 6: Closed yeah state state owned land, and then he just
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: let the bear Management Plan expire, which essentially just outlied
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: all bear hunting.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: One of the things they did in New Jersey is
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: to just totally screw hunters too. You had to do
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: a check, mandatory check. They would publicize, like you would
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: need to pull into a rest area that was known
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: to the public, and they like publicly openly seal everybody's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: bears so that all the protesters can stand there heckling you,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: taking pictures of you while you check your bear. Any
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: other state when you go to check your bear. You
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: go in, talk to someone at the desk, and then
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: you go to a little whatever garage back room, you
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: meet with a biologist, They check your bear. They don't
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: turn it into like a public spectacle of subjecting people
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: to that kind of exposure. Murphy. Then all of a sudden,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: what happens. Bear conflicts shoot through the roof so much
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that Murphy comes back and says, it pains me to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: say it, but I was wrong. We have to have
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the bear hunt. So if you were like like I said,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the Machiavelian approach to bear hunting in Florida is hoping
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: for bear conflict because that's your clearest path. The same day,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in fact, this is kind of weird. The same day,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: in the same place where the girl told me that
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Florida is the free estate in the nation. That same day,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: in that same place, I met a Florida Game commissioner
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: who told me he opposed the bear hunt only because
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of not wanting to deal with the public blowback that
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: would come his way. He told me that I don't
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: want to say his names. He's kind of telling me
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in confidentiality. He told me I didn't want to deal
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: with the antis, they like swayed his vote. What happened
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: on that hunt? What did they have forty eight hours? Well,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: so they Randall's gonna do a little report.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: They had Florida had a black bear season from like
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: the thirties up until nineteen ninety four, and then it
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: was closed from ninety four to twenty fifteen. They reopened
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: a fall hunt in twenty fifteen, and they shut it
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: down within two days because they had they were I
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: don't think they actually went over the quota, but they
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: were speeding to They were killing so many that like
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: another day of hunting probably would have taken them well
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: over the quota. So they killed three hundred bears in
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: two days.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: You're ruining the story, Hope. You're not getting it right. Hope,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I asked you one thing to do here. Well then
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: you said, Randle's going to give a little account of Yeah,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: but you're not Your count's not right, my understanding, your
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: professional research.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: I've got my research right in front of me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I thought it went like this that like they built
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: a buffer in when they close there's a forty eight
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: hour window, or in Florida, I think it was a
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: twenty four hour window. Do you have a PhD or not.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just going by what I h I do.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just going by what I.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Read waiting for that.
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't think you could just close it because
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: you're not going to read like you have to recollection.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I recollection is they were speeding towards the quota, yes,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: and so they called it closed. But they can't immediately
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: close it because how are people supposed to get the
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: word Like, let's say you're like waiting for one to
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: step out. You know you got a shot, but he's
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: not quite clear, and they go like, hey, season's over,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: but you're not looking at your phone, and then the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: bear steps clear. You're not in violation. Well they did.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: That makes sense to me. That's how we run our
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: unlimited hunts here. But they shut down Central and East
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: Panhandle regions after the first day on Saturday, they said, but.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: But what there was a twenty four hour window. They
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: were speeding toward it. But by the end of the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours they had overshot it, and then everybody
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: had a conniption. The antis had a conniption. Oh, I see.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Now in the Panhandle they did go into Sunday and
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: killed triple the quota, and so they killed The overall
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: quota was three twenty, and they shut it down on
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Sunday night with two hundred and ninety five bears killed.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: But then by the time it wrapped, what was it? Jeez?
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: See this is the real uh issue with hastily assembled
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: research here, actual harvest.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Three h four and the quota was what painting three twenty.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: Well for the overall state, the quota was was three twenty,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: but they the one the area where they met the
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: quota on the first day they'd ended up that they went,
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: they tripped the quota, and so I think they just
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: shut the whole thing down before the rest of the state,
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: that's generally speaking. But yeah, they killed three hundred bears
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: in two days. Thirty eight of them were soals with cubs,
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: and uh they haven't had a hunt since then.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Because it was treated in the you know, with all
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: due respect, I didn't give Random much time. Do you
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: notice like this group of there's like a fan group
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: about Randall. Yes, I wonder what they're thinking right now.
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: Well, I think their support they're all those dedicated and
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: loyal randomals there.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: I think they understand the constraints of what I was
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: asked to do here.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: They're reasonable, but.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I've pieced it together.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I feel like I thought you did well.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: I want to know more stories. Ted Nugent bought a
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Florida Bear tag. Good for him.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: Fifteen.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Uh, we were gonna we don't have time anymore. We
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: were gonna spend a bunch of time goofing on this
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: thing in California where they got an orphan bear cub
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: and they're trying and they're raising it up, and it's
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: a bunch of like furries who are all dressed as
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: black bears, like like that's the problem to not have
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: it to that, Like that's the problem. That's the way
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: to keep it from not acclimating to people. Yeah, those
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: bears are doomed, like like the bear is gonna like
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: get out and be like, ah, I'm just another wild bear. Hey,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: those there's some things, but.
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: They're not like the bears I'm used to, right.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Talking about that. That would have been funny had a
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: goofed on that for a long time. We're not gonna,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: all right, the story of the California Black where it's
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: taking us a long time to get here.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Devin usually does.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: I see you're here an a listener, longtime listeners. It
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: is just a couple of quick points on that. We
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: thought about killing that whole part of the show. But
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: we're not gonna good. But what I am gonna do
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: is I'm looking to in the near future split the
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: shows and just do interviews and just do this is
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: something we've considered for a long time, very clean interviews,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: so you'd be like on as a clean interview and
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: then a different thing which is just talking about dumb stuff.
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: So audience, feel free to let us know your thoughts
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: on that.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Thinking about doing that, I'm against it. It's part of
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: my professional development.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: It might be a little too serious. I don't know.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how I feel about it.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Nineteen forty eight, did you supply this timeline? You know
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: this stuff inside out? In nineteen forty eight, black bears
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: get classified as a game animal in California? Like, what
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: does that mean? Right? What does that mean for people
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: to hear that they're classified as a game animal.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: They're regulated by the Department Official Wildlife.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: So prior to that, it was like have at them.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Prior to that, we're just killing grizzlies until you extrapaid
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: them and you know, people are just you know, kind
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: of run around hunting. I mean, we had our commission
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: was established prior to that, but I don't think they
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: were formally classified as a game until god.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of the state at which the you know,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: A way to think about that too, is that if
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: sand hill cranes, like this is a pet, little pet
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: subject of mind that I'm interested in. If my home
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: state of Michigan were to enact a sand hill crane season,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: which they should, it would require them declaring it. It
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: would require them doing this. It's classified as one thing now,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: which makes it not like subject to being listed with
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a season. The first step is to go, like we
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: hereby declare the sandhill crane to be a game animal,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and that's like part of the pathway.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And they usually triggers like a management plan too, I know,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: like we'll go on tangents. But you know, recently there's
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: a proposal in California to classify coyotes as a game animal,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: and so that would trigger a management plan and everyone's like,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't think that's going anywhere, hopefully not,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: but that's part of the process.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: Right, And then that's coming from people who don't want that.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: That's coming from people that don't want them to be
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: a game animal. They want to be able to curb, right,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: is to be like that. Yeah that it won't be
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: year round, unlimited whatever.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: Classifyment them as a game animal allows you to protect them.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, here's an open season. It's a
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: game animal that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not dudes that hate coyotes doing that. Students
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: love kyotes. Correct in that case, Okay, we're gonna jump up.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: We're gonna jump up to nineteen eighty where we have
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: a sort of black bear benchmark. This is all deep history.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Hit me with, like, in nineteen eighty, what was the
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: status so Reagan? Reagan comes in right, eighty Well, he
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: was elected in eighty.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: And then took office in January eighty one.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so just for you people to remember this, it's carter.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: There's that PhD. Reagan on his carter on his way out.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Regular going on in California. Hit me with what what's
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: the status of black bears in California?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty So nineteen eighty, I think they've got the
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: population around ten to fifteen thousand bears. That's the estimate
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: started getting a little bit more restrictive as far as
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: management goes. So that's when they took prohibited trapping, no
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: killing cows, no killing of cubs and sows, and then
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: they reduced the bag limit from two to one.
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: And if I can, if I can jump in, because
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what ten to fifteen thousand bears meant.
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: I'm looking here that Montana has between thirteen thousand and
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: seventeen thousand black bears. Yeah, so yeah, so like that's
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: a fairly robust population.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Not like it is now. And wait, yeah, just wait,
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: not like it is now, and counting bears I think
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: has gotten a little more refined. Yeah, I think it
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: used to be like a little bit tougher to count
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: bears back in those days. But I mean it's a guideline, right, right, right,
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: it's a general sense. But of course, if you're saying
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: ten to fifteen thousand, you're opening yourself up to a
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: wide gap, right, there's a lot of numbers right between.
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: Still like yeah, but still it's it's in the it's
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: in the vicinity of where like what we think of
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: as black bear numbers in Montana, where we obviously don't
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: have a shortage, was Reagan the Gipper or the Kipper,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: the Gipper gipper uh as much as he is like
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: celebrated among traditional concert like, as much as he has
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: celebrated among like pre Trump Republicans, the old kind of
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: Republicans from a couple of years ago, he wound up
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: not being the Hunter's best friend when it came to
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: black Bear management.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Isn't that correct? Like, wasn't it? Didn't Reagan sign.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: He was about I was Mountain Lions.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I don't signed on mountains. Okay, he signed the band
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: on mount Dogs for Mountain Lions, right.
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: He also signed the band on Uh Nope and carry
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: in California?
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Did he? Because?
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, basically so the Black Panthers couldn't.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: So you had to start wearing your pistol in your pants,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: not out of your pants. You had to start hiding
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: it in your fans instead of explan.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: Reagan's a big Hollywood guy, and I always full of
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: all sorts of contradictions.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna, this is gonna We're gonna start narrowing
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: in on much more, just for you listeners. We're just
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: laying little groundwork here. We're just laying some background before
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: we start getting into like how bear management works in
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: our most populous state, and how bear management white work
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: in a state near you coming soon nineteen ninety eight,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: So now we're getting closer. I'm a young buck. I'm
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: kind of an older buck, six years out of high school.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Go on. Nineteen ninety eight.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: That was when the which is presidentially, that was when
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: the management plan, the previous management plan was established, and
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: so that was the framework that we operated on in
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: California just up until this year when we updated the
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: new management plan.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So nineteen ninety eight, they're like, here's how we're
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: gonna handle bears, and then twenty some years goes by
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: and it's how we're managing bears.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: Correct, And in ninety eight the population had.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: At it increased, Yeah, it increased. And all this data
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: is just coming from hunter harvest. So they're using you know,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: age sex ratio and just hunter harvest from premolars. That's it.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're not doing like a ton of they
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: don't have the current integrated population model that we have
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: now that gives you a much more accurate representation of.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: So they're able to determine, they're able to make a stab.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Back in nineteen ninety eight, they're able to make a
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: stab how many bears are there based strictly on what
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: they're seeing hunters bring in.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's some scientific stuff, but that is the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: core of the model. It's just hunter harvest.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Data, okay. And in ninety eight, so again that that
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: population estimate. In nineteen eighty, we're gonna get into some
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: wild numbers now, but coming up here in eighty ten
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: to fifteen thousand bears estimated. Jump ahead almost twenty years,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: there's the estimate seventeen to twenty three thousand bears. Notably,
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: the plan indicated an increase in the bear population and
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: documented an expansion of black bears along the central coast
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: in southern California. So bears moving into new places, right.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: And that's because historically they were grizzlies. And you know,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: that's a good point. Grizzlies are extra paid, and black
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: bears are now like filling the void and they're like, oh, hey,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: there's nothing killing us down here.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Right. No, that's fair. Take Yeah, that's that's funny. How
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: slow some of that stuff takes place, right that you're
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: still seeing adjustments, do you know, I mean, like even
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: today you're still you're probably seeing adjustments from extirpations of
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: wolves in the early two thousands or not the early
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: to the one I saying in the early twentieth century,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: you're still seeing wildlife for just but it takes like
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: one hundred years, right for things that get used, or
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: how long it takes wildlife to get used to people.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: It takes generations of mountain lions, generations of bears to
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: get like used to people and figure it out and
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: raise their offspring to be like no, no, no, no, like
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: you can do this, but you can't do that. You
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: gotta like when you get to a road, here's how
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I like to do it, do you know what I mean?
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: And they like gradually learned. They're like, oh no, no, no,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: you can like totally go into a neighborhood man and
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: trash cans, but not that neighborhood, like not that neighborhood. Yeah,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: they like they figure it out somehow, you know, Uh okay,
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: twenty twelve. This is when this is when the story
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: starts getting kind of juicy and interesting. So hit this
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: with twenty twelve.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: So up until this point, you could hunt dog, you
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: can hunt bears with dogs, and that was you know,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: we were hitting the quota every once in a while, right,
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: like pretty regularly that quote.
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: Can I stop you for a second, before this, like
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: was there spring and fall?
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Was there baiting?
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: No, none of that. All that was back in like
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I think around the eighties a lot of that stuff
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: got They went pretty good. It's away so we had dogs,
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: but no baiting, no spring season, just one tech and
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: we're hitting the quota. You know, not every year, but
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: around that like seventeen hundred bears where with.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Fall hunting with dogs hitting the quota of how many
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: bears seventeen hundred okay out of an estimated say.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: They didn't change that by like a hundred or so,
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: so I think it maybe like was sixteen hundred and
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: went up to seventeen hundred. But it's been it's hovered
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: around there, hasn't changed dramatically over time.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: And they got this quote and periodically people periodically hunters
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: are like capping it and hitting a close season yep,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: primarily with the use of hounds.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was instrumental to people being successful for.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Sure, Okay. And then twenty twelve, what goes on and
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: how does that happen?
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Well, the legislature, you know that story of legislature gets involved,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: there's an effort to ban hunting with dogs, they're successful,
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: and immediately following that the harvest rate drops significantly, so
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: we don't hit the quota. After that legislative session, after
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: that bill has passed, we do not hit the quota.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: Until today, we still haven't hit the quota. And that
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: is really like, why everything got so sideways with the
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: petition from the Humane Society and all the efforts to
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: ban bear hunting is because the population model, when you
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: just take it strictly on hunter harvest data, everyone went, oh, no,
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: the bear population is collapsing. Look they're not killing as
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: many bears. Look they're only killing half as many bears.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: There must be half as many bears on the landscape.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: That's the great irony and perversity in this story. That
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: gets to me is like the same people that push
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: to end dog hunting for bears then trumpet the reduction
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: in harvest as a way of showing that bear numbers
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: are collapsing. When you know that, they know you know that,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: they know what happened.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: But it's an argument people will buy.
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: If they don't think about it, they don't understand it.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: You know, if you wanted to see bear numbers in
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: California really collapse, you'd end all bear hunting, Like no
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: one's checking a bear anymore, there's none left, you know.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Interesting in the new management plan, they actually have an
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: interesting little snippet that says that in some areas where
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: there isn't bear hunting, you know, where bear hunting's not allowed,
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: you get higher rates of like infanticide and like starvation
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: and intercompetition because there's just so many bears that like
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: some of the younger bears aren't making it on their
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: mortality rate increases. I thought that was kind of fascinating.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Do you have some of those stats and hear about
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: like black bear predation on mule deer and stuff.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's some crazy ones. So that new management plan,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: you know, I think it was I think they put
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: a couple of million dollars like into all the work
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: that went into that. They built out an entirely new
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: integrated population model which utilizes hunter harvest data. But it
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: also they collared a bunch of bears. They have a
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: bunch of hair snares, they have a bunch of camera
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: traps and data that's all building out this plan there.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: To give you much more robust picture what's going on. Yeah,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: and regionally specific too.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: But you know some of those crazy stats that they
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: include in that they did a study on mountain lions
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: and kleptoparasitism up in northwest California.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Explain that term.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: So that's where you have a mountain lion that typically,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: let's say, kills a blacktail a week out there, and
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: there are so many black bears that black bears are opportunistic.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: They you know, smell a dead deer, They're like, oh, breakfast,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: So they come in, push the mountain lion off the kill.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: And of all the mountain lions that they had collared
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: and were studying, I think only one of them was
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: willing to defend her her kills. All the rest of
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: them were like, it's not worth it. I'm not fighting
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: this bear. So then the mountain lions go out and
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: kill another deer.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because wasn't it. The over fifty percent of the
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: deer that mountain lions killed were stolen from them by
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: black bears.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: They ended up killing six times the normal amount of
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: deer that they would because of kleptoparasitism. Oh man, So
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I mean the whole coming back to spot burning, you know,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: if you're a deer hunter, Yeah, we want a lot
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: more people to kill bears. And in that region where
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: they did that study, it's the presumed to be from
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: the datas the densest concentration of black bears in the world. No,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: in the world four bears, over four bears per square
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: miles and had a lot of poison oak though.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: That's an overlooked thing. That's why, you know, klepto parasitism.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: You could do a study on that. Like if I'm
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: in my kitchen with my kids and I make a
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: case DIA, they'd be like this individual ones that making
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: four times as many cases that's normally what it made
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: because of clefti perisity. That's pretty fascinating that they had
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: always met the quota. Then when you banned hound hunting,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: so from twenty twelve to twenty twenty one, with the
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: band of hound hunting, the quota never gets met. So
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: then you just you've taken away people's primary way of
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: getting you take away one of the most effective ways
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: to get bears, and then you have it that you're
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: just gonna have more bears, more bears, more bears, more
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: bears because they're not even able to hit the number
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: that they've regarded to be a very safe number anyway,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: very safe.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like the harvest rates in California are
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: well below what would be considered the threshold for sustainable.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: They estimated about fifteen percent take would be like a
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: sustainable level for the population in California, at least recently.
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: We're not over five percent for the entire state, five
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: percent for more than one zone, and three percent for
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: the entire state. So, I mean, the harvest rates are
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: incredibly low, and there's some estimates that say you can
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: go up to twenty percent. I think Pennsylvania and a
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: couple other states have even higher harvest rates and they
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: have no issues.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: Because they got styles with a lot of food and
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: they're dropping three cluck cubs, four cubs. Whatever. You see videos,
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: you know in the East. You know, some bear goes
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: across the world and five cubs come running after it, all, right,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: stuff that you just don't see it round here.
• 58:35
  Speaker 6: When those quotas are when they stopped meeting those quotas,
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: did was there a correlation between an increase and bear
• 58:43
  Speaker 6: conflict and an increase in the number of bears that
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: were getting what they like to say euthanized, but you know,
• 58:49
  Speaker 6: just shot by management officials whatever.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bear conflict generally from that time period up until
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: today has kind of steadily increased, like human bear conflict,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: and the department actually prior to the release of the
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: management plan, they updated their sort of depredation strategy and
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: their human bear conflict strategy, and after that there's been
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: a lot less euthanasia of bears, but a lot more
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: conflict as well. So it's just a little bit more
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: difficult for the department to go in there and approve
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: for a bear to get.
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: Taken because of like social pressure or pretty much.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it follows what the depredation strategy is
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: for mountain lions, which is, you know previously there is
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: you know, procedures, but you could kind of I think
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: my understanding is that wardens could make you know, a determination,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: like it's kind of on the fly, like, yes, this
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: is a problem bear, we need to like go in
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: and take care of this.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: There needs to be you know, a lot that there
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: needs to be a record of documentation of attempts to
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: haze the bear. You need to have a number of
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: staf that go through before that depredation tag is issued
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: and before the department will consider actually going in.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: Interesting, I have a question about not hitting that quota.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: Is that is the success rate for black bear hunters
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: and cal obviously, like the success rate goes down when
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: they do away with dogs, right and you're just doing
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: spot in.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Stall drop fifty or no, sorry not the success rate
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: harvest drop fifty percent.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so success but yeah, I mean, hound hunting has
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: is higher efficacy. So I'm wondering, like, in the time
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: that the quota hasn't been met, in the time that
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: the quota has not been met, are success rates among
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: hunters on par with fall bear non hound seasons and
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: other states? Like is it a question of there's not
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: enough people buying bear tags?
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Or is a question that success rates are much lower
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: in California compared to a similar season in say Washington.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Minunderstanding is it there like some of the lowest of
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: the states that have bears, And I think part of
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: that is cultural. I think in California people, I mean
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: there's like something like twenty five thousand bear tags that
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: get bought every year. It's a good amount of revenue
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: for the department. But there's only about a thousand to
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: thirteen hundred bears that are actually getting harvested every year.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that is cultural and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: it's just like it's.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Smart and dope surfing.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's my problem. But it's people
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: that are going deer hunting and are just buying a
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: bear tag opportunity. It's opportunistic and you know, if if
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: you don't run into one, all right whatever.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: It's like me and my wolf tag, yeah, oh maybe
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: carry Yeah, I hate to get caught without it, you know.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. And it's not you know, a super expensive tag.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: So it's people just kind of buy one and they
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: get into a bear great. But that I think skews
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: some of the data too, of like how much are
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: hunter's really trying and how does that success ratio factory?
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that that was that was sort of
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: rather than how many people are buying tags, it's like
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: how many people are actually hunting them. And it sounds
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: like that's where the sort of.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah you probably lost a ton of hunters one sounds
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 6: went away like people are like, well, I'm not gonna yeah,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: I'm not gonna hunt them a different way.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty one, they put forth they Humane Society. Right, yep,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: do we need to once again explain the Humane Society
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: there's hs US. I answered my own question. If you're
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: sitting there and you're getting you're at you're buying something,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: and there's like a little round up thing, do you
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: want to round up for the Humane Society? Right, you're thinking, oh,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: it's the local puppies. Like HSUS is an anti hunting organization.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: You can have a local Humane Society shelter, but HSUS
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: is an anti hunting organization. There's tons of confusion about
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: this that people have the difference between the Humane Society
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: writ large like as a big umbrella, and then like
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Humane Society shelters don't do anything to ever help HSUS.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: Ever, I had a question too, because I was having
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: this debate just two days ago in California, and I'm
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: curious for you guys if you know the answer to this.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: If it's outside of California, but in California, the Humane
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Society has police powers where they can actually write you
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: a ticket and it's enforceable as if it were a
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: police officer, and if you like run from them, it's
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: like you're running from the cops.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: That can't be true.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: They can write you a ticket, yell night your dog
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: pretty much for having your dog on off leash at
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: the beach. No, one undred percent. I've seen it happen
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: and it blew my mind. And so I did a
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: bunch of research and I was like, is this just
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: California where they have this police power or is it elsewhere?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Because it's it's definitely problematic.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 6: Getting a lot of ticks.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: They got all worked out about the National Guard while
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: they got the HSUS run around right in ticket.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: Here's here's the Journal article from nineteen ninety eight and
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: the uh what the proceedings of the Vertebrate Pest Conference
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: And the title of the paper is Humane Society, Good
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: guys or Gestapo.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, very provocative. That is a great title. I'm jealous
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: Toilet, but it does it does sound like yeah.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: Societies are private organizations that have no inherent power, but
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: drive all their powers and authority to enforce animal laws
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: from the state. As in most states, in California, the
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: counties can choose to operate their own animal control services
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: or to hire the society to perform animal control services
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: for the county, and they can serve search warrants. At
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: the time of this they can serve search warrants. They
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: can carry firearms and may even use reasonable force and
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: deadly force to prevent the perpetration of any act of cruelty.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Upon an animal deadly force. So I guess they're like
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: kind of put your dog on a leash, like a.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: County, a county that has to provide animal control services
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: can sort of rent to cop the Humane Society.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: And we're talking about the other day with our camera
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: guy Rick Smith. He was working on this dog, this
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: documentary about dogs in Mexico, street dogs, and he's talking
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: about like he's like, psychologically a street dog in Mexico
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: is a way healthier dog. Psychologically, they wake up, they
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: hang out with our dogs. They're in a pack form.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: People look at him like, oh, that dog has an
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: infected eye, and they think the dogs hate in life.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: But he's like, they have total autonomy, they have dynamics.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: They hang out with the dogs they want to hang
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: out with. They travel where they want. And we're talking
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: about this concept that Americans have people around the world,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: but like you take a dog, you remove its or
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: reproductive organs. You lock it in the house all day
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: and you act like you're doing the dog a favor.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: And I think that all those dogs have what's that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: syndrome when you.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 4: Get caught Stockholm all dogs have.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: I think dogs are very susceptible to Stockholm syndrome, and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: they empathize with their captors. I think that they're like
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: a highly susceptible species. And that's why when you come
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: home and your dog's happy, your dog has Stockholm syndrome.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: He has come to empathize with his captor.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: You ever seen the way dogs in Mexico will try
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: to attack a car, like because they're got huts. It's
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: it's their only natural predator, Like an urban dog, an
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: urban pack of dogs, I swear there's a pecking order
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: and great point, the biggest one will go after like cars,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: and they'll come in and they'll try to bite the wheels.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Natural predator and they're like showing their dominance. It's it's
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: a wild thing.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: I did a study Broaden song point Man, and I
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: was on a skateboard, and if you're on a skateboard,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: you'll get like twenty stray dogs that will just come
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: in like they're they're trying to kill you, and then
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: second you hop off the board, they're like.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Hey cats, I got signed out of
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: my thing.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 4: Oh that you're looking for videos of dogs chasing cars.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: No, but cats are remarkably less susceptible to Stockholm syndrome.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: But dogs, for whatever reason, weirdly are like highly susceptible
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: to empathizing with their captors people that restrain them. Don't
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: let them do what they want to do, don't let
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: them hang out with who they want to hang out with.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: Make them eat what they want them to eat when
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: they want them to eat it. No autonomy, no autonomy,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Like you get to go to the yard, it's like prison.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: You could say that it's the same thing. Let them
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: out in the yard, Let the prisoners out in the yard.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I love that this is your new crusade.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: I hope you chase this.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but you'd have to like cause you could say
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 6: say the same thing about horses.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. Well, sure, let me think
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: about it for a minute. I want to get back
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: to Tom the Bear Protection Act. Here's a move where
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: the HSUS correct HSUS comes out and says, hey, I
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: got an idea, how about you can't hunt bears at
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: all anymore in California.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: SB two fifty two, as a Senator Wieners bill.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, what happens with the Bear Protection Act?
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: It got squashed. There was a big uprising from a
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: lot of different organizations, and it got pulled back very quickly.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Okah, that's twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. There's a
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: different approach made.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Through the commission. Plain this now, the Humane Society filed
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: a petition to the Fishing Game Commission, which honestly, you
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: know HSUS, HSUS respectfully, Like that is the process, right,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: the legislature had no business taking that on, and so
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: at least they're going through the proper channel now, right,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: the commission that they failed in the legislature.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: So like people complain about ballot biology or whatever, but
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: this is like, hey, okay, we'll play by the rules,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: we'll go to the commission. Yeah.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: So they they bring forward this petition and the the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: whole argument is based off of this population model and
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: the collapse of bears. So they're saying, according to their science,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: they're saying and there's only ten thousand bears left in
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: California and this is a you know, we need a
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: moratorium on bear hunting until we can update the management
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: plan and until we have a better population model so
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: that we can And they're citing, you know, mega fires
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: and climate change, this is causing a catastrophic drop in
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: the bear population.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: And they're going back to that like evidence but to
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: climb and that's what.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everything is built around that hunter harvest model, which
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: is when you look, when you break down the science,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not it's not a solid argument at all.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: It doesn't take an expert to look at that and
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: go okay, well this doesn't you know, this clearly doesn't
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: really you know, pass the smell test here.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: And it being twenty twenty two, they just throw in
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: climate change for a zinger.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: And we'd had some huge fires in California, massive fires, right,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: and so I think that's that was the topic of
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: the time, right, It is like, you know, what could
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: these giant fires be doing to our bear populations and
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: what are the impacts? And you know, that's something I
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people are genuinely curious about. And
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: we actually used a after money and funded a study
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: on pre and post fire population status of black bears
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: in California in last National Park, just because at this time,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: you know, we're saying, okay, we'll come in society like
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: if if you want to talk about this, well, let's
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: put your money into your mouth is let's let's fund
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: some research, right, let's get to the answer. And so,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: as a part of like BHA and wanting to be
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: an organization that stands for science based management and wildlife,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: we had this opportunity from one of the old carnivore
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: biologists in the state, who's a great guy, came out
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: to like one of our bear camps and talk to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: people about bear hunting. He mentioned this study and so
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: we put some money towards it and it's ongoing. But
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: you know, I think this is like where we want
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: to be as hunters, like, you know, making sure that
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: we have good data and good science.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: And that's look. But I would think, just just intuitively,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: I would think that the that the fire outside of
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: mega fires, I would think that the fires are basically
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: generating more more and more black hair habitat.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: That's this I'm shuting just.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: Successional successional vegetation. So it might it's cooked for a
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: couple of years, but then it goes through a very
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: productive bunch of years with a lot of berry production. Yep,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: through the successional process. So you're right that you'd like
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: if you have what's a big an acreage, what's a
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: big fire in California and acreage, I mean, I mean
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands of acres, hundreds of thousands. Yeah, so
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you do when you I mean, like, you can't deny
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: it if you go into a place and you burn
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand acres of ground and a catastrophic wildfire,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: that is one hundred thousand acres of ground that for
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: a period of time is not going to be used
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: by black bears for the most part, but then it'll
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: become a patch of ground that is very well used
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: by black bears for a pretty long period of time.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: But I could see that, like I could kind of
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: see the argument, but I kind of don't see the argument.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: And I think there's it's one of those examples also
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: where like do you have can the bears move somewhere else?
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: Is their habitat for them to move into or not?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: And I think even following like some of the especially
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: like load to mid severity fires, I think bears probably
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: move in like right after the fire too. Maybe the
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: habitat and value isn't as good, but they're not. It's
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: not like it's gone forever. As my understanding, right, there's
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: going to be some bears that come right back in.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: You know, if anyone's listening that knows about this, I'd
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: love to know this answer. Has anyone ever had the
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: opportunity to look at collared black bears, collared mountain lions
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: and see how they behave with a fire? How far
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: ahead of the fire are they? Do you ever get
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: mortality on collared stuff for getting caught in fires? Like
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: I'd love to understand that. Like when you watch a
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: giant fire cooking across the mountainside. I always say to
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: my kids, I'm like, like, can you imagine how many
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: pine squirrels died in that thing? They're not getting you know,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you're cooking thousands and thousands and thousands
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: of pine squirrels, But like, what are bears doing? You know?
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: Some of them, presumably the guy get burned up. But
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I wonder like when they move, like how well do
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: they get it? How good are they going in the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: right direction? They'd be fascinating if you could ever have
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: a good sample size of like what is it? At
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: what point did it start to shift? It's you know,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: what point did it demonstrate any kind of awareness? I
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: would love to see some of that if it's out there.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: A couple of years ago you could have gotten it
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: funded as climate change research, but now you won't. You
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: have to think of a different thing, think of a
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: different buzzword to get your to get your research moneuent.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: At the same time that they're saying ten thousand bears
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: using the hunter harvest data, the California Department is there
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: saying we think we got twenty to thirty thousand. This
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: is in twenty twenty two.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: And that's their number they'd stuck with for a while,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: and there'd been some studies that had pushed that up
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: to thirty five, but generally speaking in the documents that
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: they'd had out there, they said, you know, we're think
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: it's around twenty.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: To thirty c. That petition doesn't go anywhere, right.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: I mean it, it stuck around for a little while.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: It was a big, a big deal right there. All
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: the anti hunters came out, all the hunters came out.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: We actually put together a huge just all the available
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: literature and science that we could. One of our former
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: board members was a black bear biologist in California, so
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: just like the perfect person to compile all this evidence.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: And what came of the petition was it was ultimately rejected,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: but it led to it lit a fire under the
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: department to update their black bear management plan, which was
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: something that the Hunting in Conservation Coalition in California, something
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: that BHA participates in. Prior to all this had as
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: one of the top priorities is like, we need a
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: new management plan because previously, when the management plan gets outdated,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: anti hunters will come in and say, you don't have
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: good science, we can't hunt it. And so we knew
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: that was like square one. Having a defensible position is
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: having good good science.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: Because they'll use it against you and be like, you
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: have an updated your management plan since nineteen ninety eight. Correct,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: you have no idea what's going on out there? Right?
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: So they start the process of doing the new management
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: plan and it goes up for like public opinion public comment.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: Was your general vibe on the proposed management plan or
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: your general take on it?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: A general take was it was ambitious because the director
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: said they were going to do it in a year,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: and everyone went like, all you could tell all the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: scientists and the department staff are like, did he say
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: a year, because.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, we will do anything fast.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: The Sheep plan just wrapped up and that that's been
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: going on for over a decade. Know, these things take
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: a long time, and they I mean credit to the department.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: They got it done in a couple of years. But
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: they got a draft out in about a year and
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: then followed up with the final you know, just this year.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, generally speaking, there's a lot of information
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: in there, but there's a lot of good data, Like
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: some of those nuggets that I pulled out about klepto
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: parasitism they talk.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: I read like I rarely read those whole things. I
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: read that whole damn thing. It was. I thought it
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: was like, I mean, I get huge credit to whoever
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: put it together. Yeah, I mean it was phenomenal.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: There's some really good research to win to that. And
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: just to back up a tiny bit too, our commission, Like,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: I got to give a lot of credit to them
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: because they really pushed back against this whole notion that
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: just because hunters are the minority in the state that
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: we should just ban bear hunting. And so the commission
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: really like came out in favor of black bear hunting,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: in favor of hunters, but with the caveat of like
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: let's get let's get all the data and research that
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: we can to make an informed decision.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was like what I got from
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: when I read it was like a number of recognitions,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: like there's a sort of recognition that those shifting social
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: values in the state. There's a recognition that there are
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: a ton of black bears in more places. There's a
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: recognition that we have historically used bear hunters as a
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: management tool. It recognized bear hunter's contribution to bear research. Right,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: it was like it was very even, you know, and
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: then had like, you know, just like the whole state
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: history and all their measurements stuff. I thought I was
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: like super informative.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: One of the cool things in there too to check
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: out is the range map that they updated, because you
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: can see some of those areas where black bears have expanded,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: and they updated that map and it's kind of surprising
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: to me even it goes all the way down to
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: the border to Mexico and we don't have black bears
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: in San Diego, although we did have one that ran
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: and down into like Ramona, I think it was last year.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: So like it's not a not a common free occurrence,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: but you can imagine if things stay on the same
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: trajectory that those bears will probably move down there. If
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: they continue to move out, I mean we've been We've
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: had bears porn into Nevada for years and years now,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: Like their bear population is bolstered by all these bears
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: that are just leaving California because the taxes are too
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: high or whatever, you.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Know, with the with that black bear management plan they
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: put out, which is like a proposal, right, I mean
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: they have a proposal part of it.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: Well, they had the draft management plan and then they
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: finalized it just this year.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that that I'm not that that I'm less
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: schooled down, but I remember now they were saying like
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: there's things that you could do, or people were asking
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: for certain things like like Californians are limited to one
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: bear yep, and since the quote is not being met
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: and you have more bears, like categorically more bears than
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: you did when they established the quota, and the quota
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: is not being met they were like, we could do X,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: Y and Z. We could give everybody two bear tags,
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: which I don't think is going to make a huge difference.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Probably it's the lowes it's the lowest hanging fruit, but
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: and I agree, I don't necessarily know that's even going
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: to get us to the quota, but it's it's a
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: very logical first step. And that's actually what bhad is.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: We filed a petition to the Commission right after the
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: management plan was finalized, and we reviewed it as the
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: like easy slam dunk, lowest hanging fruit. Everybody could buy
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: two bear tags because then you know, one is just
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: more revenue for the department. If some people are like, oh,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: well I'm going to go deer hunting and maybe I'll
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: see two bears, you never know. Like so that for
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: us was just like an easy win. But there's other
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: other proposals that the Department are going to bring forward
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: that we're aware of, including expanding some of the bear
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: hunting zones. So like in northeastern California and the Modoc
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: Plateau that has been closed to bear hunting. It's because
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: it's not historically occupied bear habitat, but the bears have
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: moved in there. There's you know, good genetic diversity, there's
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: good bear hunting up there, so it seems like a
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: logical place too. Yeah, let's open that up. There's no
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: reason not to hunt bears there. You know, they're gonna
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: potentially talk about season timing. It's a pretty wide open
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: season right now around when deer season starts and it
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: goes like to the end of the year in most zones,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: so they may look at that as well as if
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: there's any improvements there or additional opportunities. I think those
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: are the big first things that the Department's going to
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: try to address this year. I don't think spring bear
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: baiting dogs, that's not coming from the department.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: Hard to bring that stuff back once you.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: What does it take to bring it back? Like, I
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: appreciate I appreciate the efforts. I appreciate your guys' efforts
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: on this. I appreciate the efforts. To me, like, these
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: are all wins. They're all their battles, little wins, right,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: their battles that you win the war. To me, like
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: to win the war, it would be that we would
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: we would be able to go in and revert, we
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: would have success in going in and reverting some of
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: the major management, the historic major management decisions. Like hunters
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: look at winning oftentimes at defeating, we look at winning
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: as defeating losses. Meaning Colorado's like, Okay, we're gonna ban
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: bobcat hunting, mountain lion hunting. Hunters come together, fight it,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: and the victory is that you.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: Didn't maintain the status.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: You maintain the status.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: Quote.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: I would love to see like that somehow we would
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: pull off that trapping came back to Colorado, that right,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: that hound hunting came back to California, that the mountain
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: lion season came back to California. What does that take
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: in California? Like, is that just not I mean, like,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: give me the realistic. Is that just not gonna happen?
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: I mean when you talk about mountain lion is not
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: going to happen because of when that legislation was passed,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: the way it was passed, it will require a four
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: fifths vote majority in the legislature to bring mountain line
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: unting back in California.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Are you serious? Fifths?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: So, I mean mountain lion as much as we would like,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: really it, that is not the threshold. Yeah, for bears,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: it's a different story. Oka bears. We had a bill
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: this year AB ten thirty eight that almost made it
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: out of committee. It actually, you know, there was a lot,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: a lot of work done by a lot of great
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: organizations to bring that forward. Yeah, this is like a
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: houndsman bill primarily as a sponsor, and it's it was
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: before the management plan was finalized. And now it's a
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: two year bill. So in California, the legislative session spans
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: two years, so this was basically just kind of got
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: to get recycled into next year. But it doesn't have
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: to necessarily start from square zero in order to bring
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: hound hunting back. It will require the legislatures approval. And
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: so what this bill tried to do is this bill
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: tried to allow for the use of hounds for basically
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: tree and free from like a perspective of human bear conflict.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: But it also the reason why it can't original possession.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: That's great, that's great, but it's not what I'm talking about, right.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: But but what it did also is that it allowed
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: for the It delegated the authority as it should be,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: to the Commission to determine whether or not there should
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: be a hound hunting season. Got it so it took
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: it out of the legislature's hands put it in the
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: Commission's hands where it belongs, and that was too much
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: for the anti hunters in the state. But I think
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: that it's not it's not something that's out of the question.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: It just I think these things have to happen in
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: their stages. And now that we have the management plan,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: let's say we get a second bear tag, we expand
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: the zones, we do everything we can, and we still
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: don't hit the quota, and we can show the negative
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: impacts to other species mule deer, you know which, big
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: charismatic megafauna like mountain lions. I mean, if you want to,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: like really make the argument bears are negatively impacting mountain lions,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: right like, we need to manage them to an extent
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: where we can actually be successful.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Now you're getting back into that machiavellian stuff, man, So
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: I just feel bad for the mountain laps. We need
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: to be able to hunt more better.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: So I don't know if you've the one thing that
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: sticks out to me about this new plan, and I
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: don't know if we've touched on it and I missed it,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 4: but it's got a new population model, which again is
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 4: like one of these little steps that leads towards reframing
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 4: the whole conversation.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Right, So, the current.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 4: Statewide black bear population is what now according to the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: according to the best available science.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: According to the new IPM, the Integrated Population Model, it's
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: fifty nine thousand with but but it could.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: Be, but it could be scroll let me scroll back up.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: And that's one of people where we are going nineteen
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: to eighty, ten to fifteen thousand bears and called best
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: best scientific gusts ten to fifteen thousand in California.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: Hit me begin now, fifty nine thousand up to eighty thousand. Wow,
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: the most bears in the lower forty eight the highest
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: density of bears, black bears in the world in northwest California.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: And that's I mean, there's too many places claiming to
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: have the highest density of black bears.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: It's in the management. They take it. They like put
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: their flag in the ground. They're like anyone else, come
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: challenge us. But this is the data that we have.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: And like getting stuff like that fucking thing for Atlas
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: is the different places we compete, the different.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: Places in New Jersey and California as well.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: And then portions of southeast. The last also claim to
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: have the highest densery.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: This is also per a hundred square kilometers, so it's
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: like one hundred fifty six bears per hundred square kilometers
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: is their metric, which is like just over four bears
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: a square mile. So I don't know if somebody that's
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: a lot. Someone else is like we got the most
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: bears in this quadrant or whatever, but I think a
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: square miles are pretty Yeah, no, I.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: See that true. Yeah, And then it depends on how
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: big the area. Like if I put a bunch of
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: bears on this table, could I say, like, that's the
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: densest population black bears in North America? Yeah, this table.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: So it's gotta be like how much air you talking about? Yeah,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: it's a sizable chunk of ground though.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's huge. I mean there's a ton of
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: public land that you can hunt in California. Four black bears.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Do you do some fall? Do you do some specific
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: fall black bear hunting?
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm excited to do some more fall black bear hunting.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: I've been living in San Diego for ten years, been
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: hunting for thirteen years. My wife and I got into it.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: We've been trying to kill our San Diego deer, which
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: is might as well be the you know, unicorn of
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 2: the woods. She was successful, she killed one with her bow.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: Oh seriously, Y's cool.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: And we've been hunting together for a long time. Now
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: we have a couple of kids. It's it's trickier to
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: like get out together and do that. You folks on
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: crayfish exactly, you know where I can really make it
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: a way for my buck Stowe rest in peace. But
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: I've you know, I've I've gotten to do a little
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: bit of black bear hunting, mostly when I'm like traveling
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: for work like we did. Uh, We've been doing this
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: big restoration project up in northeast California, and so when
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: I go up there. I was at my deer tag
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: and shot a deer a couple of years ago and
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: almost shot a bear, but a little out of range.
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: Usually bow hunting. But my friend who shared that picture, Ned,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: who does some guiding in the Eastern Sierra. He he's
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: been trying to get me to come up with them.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: So I'm pretty excited to get up And I got
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: like ten points for deer, so I'm gonna cash in
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: next year. I'm gonna scout my deer zone and and
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: go hopefully kill a bear this fall.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: I was hanging out with the guy in California this
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: winter and one is weird just saying man like he uh,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: he manages a ski area. Okay, I'm not gonna tell
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: you what ski area. And I'm a hell fire to
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: come down out of respect for the town, out of
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: respect for the individual. It's not like my story, my
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: crime and punishment story. So check this out. It was
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: January and this is January in the mountains, Okay. At
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: a ski hill, I pull in to meet him, there
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: is a bear standing under Like you park in a
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: parking lot and you walk up this zigzag old rickety
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: stairs to get to enter the bar. At the ski area,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: there's a bear standing under the porch standing there and
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: his buddy. Another bear is standing off to the side
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: of the stairs.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: I can't like, I'm like forgot his idea or what
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: it's like.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what you read like like people seeing
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: things they can't comprehend, Like I'm stuck in a moment.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, the snow is so you can't walk through
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: the woods. Okay, we're using snow cats to get around you.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Cannot walk around without snowshoes. I'm like feeling like, oman,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: did I come through a fence? And this is like
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: a like I couldn't comprehend what I'm seeing. He's like,
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: oh no, man, these are like the town bears. He says.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: They don't even hibernate anymore. They live in town. They
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: walk around. He had a couple of years earlier got one,
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: and he's like, he's like, dude, man, I kept that underrat. Well,
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: it's funny, he said. There's no way I could have
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: told anybody about that. And it was on his property.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: He tagged it.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 4: Well, So this is the thing with the two tags,
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 4: is they in Montana in the last legislative session, they're
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 4: trying to pass a bill through the Fish and Wildlife
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 4: Committee or in the House whatever to let hunters buy
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 4: two lion tags in areas that had really low success rates.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 4: And there's this question of like, well, if people aren't
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 4: killing lions there, now, what's them having an extra tag
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: going to do? And the point was made was that
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 4: a lot of these areas are places where there's not
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: great access and so some or there's like considerations about
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: hunting around city limits things like that. And a lot
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: of hunters wouldn't be, like, are pretty conservative when it
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: comes to like butting up against private property or whatever.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: And so in the case of like these town bears,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: if there are some guys that hunt and have properties
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: where they can hunt, like having that person buy a
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 4: second tag, could It's not going to tip the scale,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 4: but it increases harvest in these places where it's tricky
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 4: to address it.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: I got me a permission on the spot for I
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: just don't know if I can deal with the heat.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: That's what I told them. They got property, said, man,
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: you have no problem.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: Mmmm.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. That seems like a
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: good way to get in the argument with the old ladies.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 4: Near near Wine Country.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: The old lady cat or a dog on a leash.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: There's an interesting tidbit too. I think it's from the
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: management plan. But bears that get accustomed to human food
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: and are like your town bears, they reproduced earlier and
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: more often, and so like you're saying they stop hibernating,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's just like those bears. And it's like
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: two whole separate conversations, right, like, how do you deal
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: with the bears in Tahoe and mammoth and like the
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: human bear conflicts that are there because some of those places,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: you know, there's no little pockets here and there that
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: you can hut, but the vast majority of those bears
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: are not necessarily like the huntable population. Right, that's just
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: like an education campaign for people to stop being idiots
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: and start locking up their food. And you know that's
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: where that whole like h you know, human bear conflict
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: conversation comes in. But you know, hunting will improve human
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 2: bear conflict, but it's not the like end all solution.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: Some of these places like require education, require people being smart.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't you know, I keep talking about that,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: that approach of like I need to be clear about
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: what I'm after here. I I see people that are
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: on my I'm making a mess of this argument. Let
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: me back up. I often see people use a rhetorical
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: strategy in these conversations that I'm uncomfortable with. They would say,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: don't we can't ban mountain lion hunting in Colorado because
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: mountain lions are going to kill all of our children
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: if we do that. Like, it's so tempting to do
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: that because it helps you get what you want.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, to scare people into it.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: It's so tempting to vilify, to be like grizzlies. Like,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. I believe it's time to delist grizzly
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: bears in the Greater Yellowstone and Northern Rocky Mountain ecosystems,
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: those deep distinct pocket DPS's is time. But I can't
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: then go it's time because grizzlies are going to kill
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: us all, which is how you get there, because then
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: you make it an issue that moms, hikers, whatever, You
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: make it their problem by intimidating them. And I see
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: people do it, and very well intentioned people do it,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: and I'm always like, man, I can't personally traffic in
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: this argument that I'm so afraid of a bear because
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: we have bears all over our yard and the fall,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: I'm so afraid of a bear in my We have
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: to want more bears. They're gonna kill us all. But
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: I wish I could earlier. I used like being like
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: the Machiavelian approach. It's like anything to win right, and
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. You know, I think it's worthwhile
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: to point out I think it's worth while to point
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: out bear human conflict. But I can't put it that
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: my motivation that I'm motivated first and foremost by preventing
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: bear human conflict.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: You don't want to get out the pitchforks and torches
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: for the scary monsters.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm motivated by here's a renewable resource. There are
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: people that want to use and utilize and enjoy this
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: renewable resource, and it will not be a detriment to
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: the species. Therefore, since the species is fine, they'll continue
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: to occupy the landscape in California. Let those people who
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: would choose to exercise their historic privilege of utilizing the
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: resource for food, skin, whatever, allow them to continue to
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: do so because it doesn't imperil the integrity of the species.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: If you got to get there by talking about bears
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: eating your dog's food, I'd do it, but rather not.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: I think an interesting take on that too is that
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: when you talk about like problem bears, right and depredations
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: and relocations, and this goes for like large carnivores in California,
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: we have an interesting perspective for a lot of mountain lions,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: and we relocate a lot of these in these depredation instances.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: We relocate and I know, particularly for mountain lions in
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: the Sierra Nevadas, in the eastern Sierra where we have
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: an endangered subspecies of bighorn sheet, there are problem cats.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: When the sheep come down low enough, there's like a
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: big snow year, the sheep come down low and they
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: just get massacred by these mountain lions, and particular mountain
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: lions will kill sheep, so they'll take that take it.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: There's you know, instances where they've taken that cat and
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: moved them one hundred and fifty miles away, comes right back,
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: it starts killing sheep again, and they do it again,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: three hundred miles away, comes right back and keeps killing shit. Yeah,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: And so it's like, Okay, at what point are we
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: spending resources, like, you know, if we can you know,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: if we don't have to kill it, sure, if we can,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: if it can be a hunterable you know animal, great,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: But you know, at what point are we spending resources
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: to basically just put a band in on something that's
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: going to come right back in. So I think that's
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: the question there, Like you can't, yeah, you can't be
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: fear mongering that you know, the bears are going to
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: kill us all But also like we have to be
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: smart about our strategies and how we're using hunting as
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: a management tool, and how we're employing depredation to you know,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: like prevent problem bears from coming in and killing like
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: the lady in Downeyville, right, Like, which was I think
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: part of that like catalyst of that story.
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was like a very emblematic story where here's
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: a person complaining about a bear, the bear bench comes
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: in her house and kills And it was like, yeah, right.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: I've kind have seen that bear too, because my friend
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: lives like a mile or two down the road.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Was that right?
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: And I've seen bears in his face. I find a
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: deer up there, and you know, a couple of looks
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: at bears. So after that, I was thinking, like, I
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: wonder if I saw that bear.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I might have. Yeah here, because grizzlies
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: are esa animals. They'll go to great ends to move
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: a problem grizzly bear. For the most part, when you
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: tattletail on a black bear for doing something bad, I
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: was telling people not the tattletale on the ones around town,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: Like if enough people tattletale on a black bear, he's dead.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: Because think about like this, you got to move at
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty miles to get out of where
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: it's not you know, I mean where he's not just
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: going to show back up. So here you have an
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: understaffed agency with you know, budget constraints, like any while
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: they management agency's gonna deal with. You got a very
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: healthy population of black bears, a growing population of black bears.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: A black bear starts killing some chickens. Are you really
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: gonna send a guy out he's gonna catch it. You're
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: gonna pay him the whatever days it takes to bring
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: that thing two hundred and fifty miles away come back, right.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: It's just they just this not the time and money.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: He's gonna use dogs to do it that.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: Dog teams are like how they'll get a contract houndsman
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: to come in and catch those bears off times. I
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: mean they'll do traps, but in culvert traps, dogs whatever.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: But it's like they're not gonna, you know, they're not
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: gonna spend the time of money on it. It's just
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: it's burdensome. And then at any given time, like September
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: comes and I'd got to tell me one time, like
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: in this town September comes they were they were monitoring
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve in town that people are calling,
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: calling up complaining about. So I don't know what that
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: has to doing anything, but it's just interesting about how
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: they view it. Then you got these guys here dressing
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: up like dressing up like bears.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: That's just another day at the office.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: So what do you think he's gonna wind up happening?
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: I think I can say with somewhat, you know, confidently
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: that I think this year we'll see a second bear tag,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: we'll see expanded hunting zones into northeastern California. Maybe a
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: little tweaks to the season, but nothing substantial.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: They're more generous tweaks.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know as much here. This is where we
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 2: start to get into like a little bit more uncertainty.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: The San Luis Obispo's a lot of people that are
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: calling for bear hunting down there. There was an effort
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: maybe about like ten years ago to establish a bear
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: hunt there because it's been historically closed and the department
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: had said there there's a thousand bears and we should
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: hunt them. And then there was a big effort to
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: block that, saying, you know, you don't have enough data,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: you don't have enough research. They did a study in
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen. It is pretty short, it's
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: a pretty small sample size, but the study indicated they
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: thought there was only like one hundred bears there, and
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: so that was kind of like the proof of the
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: pudding that no, we're not going to do a bear
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: hunt here, there's not enough. And so I think San
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: Luis Obispo still is like a wild card. The genetic
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: diversity down there is not the same as it is
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: in all the other areas. Even though it's it doesn't
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: warrant any concern or management action. So I think if
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: there were to be maybe another study or some more
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: research that could be done into the population there, I
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: think we could definitely see hunting established there. But I
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: don't know that that's going to happen this year spring season.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that going to take?
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: I think that's going to take. I think it's going
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: to be a walk before you run. So I think
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: we need to like lay this foundation where we're at show.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, hopefully we hit the quota. I don't think
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: we will necessarily show that, Like, there's still more management
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: that needs to happen, and then we start looking at
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: you know what's next, right, is it spring season? Is
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: it dogs? You know, is it dogs before spring seasons
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: that you can have a better opportunity to you know,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: you know, sex the bear and when you got it
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: up in a tree and make sure it doesn't have
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: any cubs. Like those are the types of arguments that
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: I think the community is a little bit more split,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: but that we need to have as we move forward.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: But it you know, in order to like not provoke
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: that substantial backlash and another bill in the legislature, I
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: think we got to take these wins like and just
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: chip away. But we are on the you know, we're
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: moving forward, right, We're not on the defensive anymore, which
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: is promising, right. It's like it's a really it's a
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: great time to have our department and our commission using
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: the science we have new like updated robust science to
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 2: advocate for like better management and better hunting opportunity. And
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: so I'm I'm really optimistic in California where we're going
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: to go. Hopefully we just keep chipping away.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: Let's do a quick roundtable if you could have if
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: you're the King of you're Reagan you're the king of
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: cal uh and you could. Someone said, okay, you can
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: have you can have back spring. You can have back
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: spring bear hunting, or you can have back hound hunting
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: in the fall. I'd do hounds, brodys on hounds with
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: that number of bears, Yeah, hounds.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 5: I feel like I'm not qualified to speak.
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: Are we talking about this as a management tool or
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 4: just what I want to do?
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: What you want to do? Oh? Not what you want
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: to do, oh just for the betterment of hunters.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: Someone said, okay, I can't do both. I can do one.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 4: I mean i'd i'd restore house and hunting, because that's
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 4: that was the traditional use up till the eighties.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: Right, hmm, How bad's poison oak in the spring?
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: Like, I got questions?
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: It's terrible, That's what I got. The worst turkey hunt.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: Just let the dogs go through the poison. Can you
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: stand on the outside and I'm not going in there.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 6: It seems like in a lot of California a spring
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 6: season would be a lot different than like a spring
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 6: season in Montana, just based on like climate weather, right,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 6: like when the bears are all popping out in May,
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 6: Like I don't know that that's like there's a mountain
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 6: I know in places, Yeah, but there's like a lot
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 6: of country where it might not be.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: It might not be as they might not be as concentrated.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, had a very I think biography for sure.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: Even without the poison out question, I would say I
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: would say as well, hounds just to have that, just
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: to have that win for houndsman who get beat up
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: on all the time.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, mm hm hm.
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: Anything else you want to tell us about?
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: Just the three million acres of public lands for sale?
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's just show that's off topic, not off topic.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: It's also out of time because it's the release sched
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: or we can't just put these up and we want Yeah, no,
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: I know, So I'll just cut that out by the
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: time you say that, it'll be something different tomorrow.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: If it wasn't, that's what we'd be talking about.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, bullfrogs, When are you guys gonna come come kill
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: some bullfrogs with me?
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: How many you get we're.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: Getting like our good nights are like thirty twenty to
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: thirty yeah, big one, big.
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: Big twenty two of them? Or how are you getting them?
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: We're shooting them with pole spears mostly like wine slings, yeah,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: spear fishing stuff.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: Are you allowed to twenty two of them?
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: Nope?
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: Do they We couldn't do that where I grew up either.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 6: Do they treat them like an invasive species there, like
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 6: you're just allowed to get as many as you want.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, no, no season invasive species. And I'm doing
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: it with the Forest Service because they've got a population
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: of endangered royo toads that the bullfrogs are just hammering
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: eating them, and so we go in and shoot the frogs.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: Eat Them's my wife's favorite food. And yeah, it's it's
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 2: a good time.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: I could also tell you guys about that.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: What kind of ground? What kind of ground are you on?
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: Where are you doing is at.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: It's like you know, riperian little little creeks and things
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: that you know, kind of spread out into a sort
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: of marshiness.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Are you hearing them? Yeah?
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: If it if it's like you know, a what was it?
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: May it depends on like gets warm enough. But then
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: when they're breeding and you hear them doing, they're.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: Like, are you lighting them up or hitting them in
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: the daytime?
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, we're lighting them up. Yeah, we're going at night.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: This I mean as a where my friend who's the biologist,
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: I mean we both have he's got three kids that
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 2: are little. I got to right, we don't have time
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: and so kids go to bed. We're like wives don't
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: care that kids are asleep. You know, we don't have
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: to work. I don't have to take a day off,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: and we just go out there for hours shooting frogs.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: You know, in Michigan, it's one of the dumbest, the
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: dumbest game laws in Michigan that I'll never understand is
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: you cannot hunt bullfrogs with artificial light in Michigan. And
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: this is a place where exactly zero people hunt bullfrogs
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: since I left. Like how that even came to be
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: on anyone's mind, I'll never understand. You cannot use the
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: artificial light to spare a bullfrog, Like, like, I'll never
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: like how that even was like on the radar of
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: somebody fair Chase. Yeah, which means there's no bullfrog culture,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: no bullfrog culture. That's sad A pole spear them. Yeah.
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: Have you just tried getting a big gig with like
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: a twelve foot handle on it.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: We've I mean I don't have one, but I've taken
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: I have a long pole spear. I've got like a
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: nine foot pole spear, and I'm putting some I put
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: some weird things on the end of it that I've
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: been able to find. So it's basically a gig, right.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: But then you've got the sling, so you can get
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: you can get some range on it, right, shoot that
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: thing out in the middle of a little pond.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then big old fatties, big fatty like, show
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: me the legs up with your hands. How far the
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: legs from the tip of his toes to his hips
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: to his pelvis all that.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're like that fat around.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like chicken legs. I mean they're from the
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: just some good legs.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 4: California, Steve, what's peak month out there?
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 2: We just kind of we're just kind of coming out
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: Probably what's poison ivy situation, Like it's.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: Chilled sothern California's not so bad poison I poisons really
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: more like a stand in the water. Yeah, there's there's
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: no that would.
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: Be fun man, twenty to thirty at night.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: And you're and it's good for conservation, right, Like.
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: What can I be square with you? Though? No, do
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: you really think does that does like there are so
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: when you look at wildlife management, invasive species management, with
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: the exception of new tree in Chesapeake Bay and maybe
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: some other examples, are there really any case studies in
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: which something was mechanically removed.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: We're never getting rid of these bullfrogs.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 3: We're not living living.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: Under anti false.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like like lionfish is like you're gonna
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: get them all huh.
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but in this area, like we are hammering them
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: to the extent that they're not there. It's allowing more
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: to roo toads to reproduce. So from a conservation perspective,
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 2: like it's it's having an impact, while if we were
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: to stop doing this in five years, be a bazillion more.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, So it's yeah, you're you're it's like any
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: kind of control. Yeah, it's like it's targeted, helpful control,
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: but it's it winds up being that that toad will
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: remain basically conservation dependent on some amount of mechanical removing. Likely. Yeah,
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: but I mean I'll travel for a good bullfrog hunt
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: no matter what, because those are good numbers for big fatties.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you get the spearfishing combo, you know, shoot,
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: some soup, some fogs at night, and some fish during
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: the day. Really, Oh yeah, you want to go spearfie.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: What would we go for calicos and like like sheepshead or.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: What if it's the summertime, like right now, depending on
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: what you wanted, Like, definitely could find some calicoes. You
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: might find a howl that if we went out into
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: the kelped, good chance you find a yellow tail or
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: white sea bass. But if you want, like I.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: Don't believe in white sea bass, I don't think they're
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: I don't believe.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: If you want to, if you want to surefire guarantee, like,
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: I will put you on a fish. It's the Corbina.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: Oh really, because they are they're in five feet of
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: water less. I mean they're right there feeding on sand
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: crabs in the shore. And so I've taken people that
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: have never spearfished before in their lives and just dragged
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: them out. And you have to be somewhat comfortable in
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 2: the water because every once in a while wave I'll
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: just toss you on the sand because you're in there
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: like this much water trying to get in and shoot
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: these things. But you can cheat a lot. It's a
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 2: lot of fun.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: I got a lucky there. I got a not San Diego,
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: but I got a lucky yellow tail. Oh nice, doing
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: a bunch of other stuff. And then I lucked into yet,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: which is the only yell tub I've ever got.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: I got one on my kayak and then I had
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: a hammerhead come in try to get it.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's cool.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: I was three miles out and you saved the fish.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, yeah I didn't. That wasn't after I
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 2: got in. It was like an hour paddle back in
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: or you know, I had one of those pedal kayaks
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: if my neighbor let me borrow, and this thing circled
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: us and bumped my boat for an hour. We got
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: into shore. We have goprovid of that fish. Oh yeah,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: just smell the blood. The blood from the gas was
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: just coming in the water. And I was holding the
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: tail like this in between my legs as I was pedaling.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: And I got to shore. Well right before I got
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: to shore, went through the surf break and I was
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: like the ten foot hammerhead behind me. Sorry dude. And
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: then I got into shore and I tried to like
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: open my hand because I had so much adrenaline. I
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: had to like fry my fingers off this fish because
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: it was just like, I gotta get it.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: That frog hunt sounds fun. Big fatties, big fatties. Broom
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: round here. All you hear is boom. You know what
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 1: that is?
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: Bm someone shooting and missing.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: No, that's people thinking they hear a bullfrog. But it's
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: a green frog.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 3: Right out back.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah you want that broom? Oh yeah makes the hair
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: on the back of my next stand up. That's my
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: dad saying about the smell at German cigarettes. Man the
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: hair on the back of the next stand up. Thanks
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: for coming on the show man.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I hope you get like, let's get
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: let's get some bear hunting in California back on the thing,
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: come on down, yeah, cause you know, you guys got
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: a people like the hack on California. But if you
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: guys get some big wins like that, people start being like,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: I love that blaze.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's it's a sportsman's paradise for if
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: you know the right species to go after, or if
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: you draw that tag that you know you save up
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: your points right.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: Well, this is my final thought on it, and it
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: is something I bring up a lot like everywhere you
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: go in the country, everywhere you go, there's two people
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: next door to each other. There's the guy that like,
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 1: there's too many people now fishing game did this? The
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: wolves did that, the the the and they sit in
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: their house and bitch and neck always, Like somewhere right
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: around his house is the dude who's like, dude, you
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: can't even scratch the surface. There's so much to do.
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: I mean they're neighbors. Everywhere you go in the country,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: you will find those two people in very close proximity
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: to each other. I always try to be with the
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: dude who's like, you can't scratch the surface. No, so
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: keeps getting after it.
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just looking in the wrong place.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, you sound like you can't scratch the surface
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: kind of guy. Yeah.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: I love it as long as I can do it
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: after my kids go to bed.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: Ah man, thank you