Latest / Author Hour / Unsplode: Caleb Pinegar and Trevor Hanson on Why a Life Deferred Is a Life Gone

Transcript

Unsplode: Caleb Pinegar and Trevor Hanson on Why a Life Deferred Is a Life Gone · Author Hour

• speaker-0: Welcome to Author Hour. Today we are sitting down with co-authors Caleb O. Pinnegar and Trevor B. Hansen, who wrote Unsplode, The Bold New Approach to Reconstruct Your Wealth Span and Health Span, which is out now. Caleb, Trevor, welcome to Author Hour. speaker-1: Thank you for having us, Lex. speaker-0: So today, as I mentioned, we have co-authors joining us to talk about their book. The book is out now, and we've got both halves of the book in the same room: a wealth manager and an orthopedic surgeon who also happen to be cousins. We're gonna get into what you built and how it came to be. So, not only are you cousins, but you're also lifelong friends. One of you spent a career managing money, the other repairing bodies. When did the conversations you were always having turn into, this actually has to be a book? speaker-1: I'll let Caleb start because he's the actual guy that came up with the idea. speaker-0: It's probably been seven to ten years. We we argue a little bit back and forth about how long it's been in progress, but for so many years we've personally just talked about our own limitations on even spending good quality time together. That's had to do with our careers, our education and our and just our busy lives. And and it's it's spawned a lot of deep conversation of what's what is the best approach to balance. speaker-1: The idea came up about seven, eight years ago. that's when he brought it up. And I'm like, huh, I don't know. it it but every time we came together, he brought it back up and then we started thinking about it. It's like, how do you bring health and wealth together? And that that was that was a tough thing to do. And, you know, I I think it almost was meant to take seven, eight years to to come to fruition because it it took that long to kind of brainstorm it and come up with what the book could be. And also how to get our lives into a place that actually made sense to actually push this book out with, us change our own lives as well and finding balance. speaker-0: The title itself has one of the best origin stories. One of your kids looked at a rebuilt Lego set and called it unsploded. How did a made-up word from a child end up being exactly right for a book about health and wealth? It was as we were title hunting for the book, I I believe my son was five at the time, and as as he just interacted, he always had funny quirks on words and things he would say that were a little bizarre but still cute. And of course I would try very hard not to correct him because I wanted it to continue because they're only young for so long. But as we were as we were diving into the meat of this book, talking about some of the tragedies that the story has or that the book represents and some of the kind of pivotal moments in the book that spawn the ideas and recommendations for people. We were noticing how many times people's lives explode because of tragedy or the way that poor preparation can destroy a family or destroy a career or destroy your health. And some of these tragedies that we were discussing just really had that weighing heavy on my mind. And when my son looked at a he had a Lego that had fallen and broken and he looked on the ground and he goes, it unploded. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And I looked at him and was like, it did what? He goes, it unploded. And then he and he used this word frequently to discuss when something like broke apart into pieces. And I was like, I was like, It's almost exactly opposite of what we want to teach people. we we like that word sounds so great if we could capture it and use it. And the the intent was to say, hey, like before your life does explode, why don't you recreate it? Why don't you unsplode this system? So the the the use of this clever error of my son got got brought up and I I came to our book meeting with this elaborate display of prefixes and nouns and trying to convince these guys, I'm like, you guys, this is a cool word. We need to use it. And these guys kind of looked at me like all this preparation and at the same time they were like, We love it. So it was it was Trevor Trevor could probably comment on his initial reaction. He I I bring a lot of weird discussion to these meetings and and and I'm sure he could have some Interesting feedback on that. speaker-1: No, he can't he does. He's like the creative side of this this partnership we have, right? he has that more of that left brain. I'm totally right brained, no no creativity whatsoever. And so when he came up with Unsplode, I was just like, That's it. That's the one, Ninety nine percent of the ideas didn't make any sense, but that one was great. I I love that. speaker-0: You gotta leave it to a five-year-old sometimes to just have the perfect innovation for something like that. that is something only a five-year-old could really come up with. Yeah. speaker-1: Right. speaker-0: The beauty of a child's mind, just so innocent, so pure, so so perfect. It just yeah, it spilled out naturally. And I was like, dude, where did that come from? That's amazing. So you didn't just co-write this book. From what I read, you almost raced each other through this kind of Spartan obstacle course the whole time you were writing it. What's the dynamic between you two and how did that competitiveness shape the book? speaker-1: No, I'll I'll talk about that. throughout all our history, as kids, he was older. He was about two, three years older than me, and I was always trying to keep up with him. Reality is I don't know why he was hanging out with a younger kid. But our families, we lived in Dubai in the Middle East, Muscatomon, and we would come back every summer summer and I was always excited about hanging out with Caleb. But every time I came back to the US and in Orm Orim, Utah, Caleb was really outgoing and liked dangerous activities. Let's say rock climbing, rope swings off, off into the river or jumping off bridges or, a lot of roller rollerblading off a ranch, and inevitably I would get hurt each time. So so we we're competitive. I always wanted to keep up with him. So, i in in that sense, it came, we we we had really busy careers. Caleb was doing surgeries right and left, In that industry they want you to do as many surgeries as possible, so that way they can get as much volume as possible. And then in the investment business, what I did was never enough. They always wanted me to produce more and more and more. And it just got overwhelming. I was managing over a billion dollars for a large financial institution. And he was busy too. We never able to h hang out with each other. Well, he calls me up and tells me that he's leaving his practice to do something else and start his own business and Little did I know that my corporation came out with this agreement they wanted me to sign. And I I I couldn't do that because that would have locked me in with that career forever. I couldn't see myself being that busy for 30 more years. So at that point I left my career and started my own wealth management practice. And then then I had a little time to be able to write this book with Caleb. So we we tell people like, how could we how could we have written that book earlier when our our lives were about to explode anyway. So we unploded our lives, started our own businesses and our own practices, found balance in our life, and then we created this book after that. And we've done Spartan races together. We we talked to each other about health, about fitness and and and money. And it's just been a great experience. this took us about 18 months to write. speaker-0: It did. It was a long time. And and Trevor doesn't quite give credit. So as far as this competitiveness, I am easily distracted and I am constantly bouncing around between ideas. And Trevor is driven. And he is if you go on vacation with Trevor, there's no sleeping in, there's no missing five minutes. It is scheduled and we are going. And why are you still in bed? And it is like so you you go out, you go you go on vacation with Trevor. And you need a couple days to snooze when you get back because he is just so driven. And so it's a good partnership because I I try to bring the the levity to it and I try to I try to encourage him to screw around. And yes, I've gotten him hurt a lot of times. I've gotten his brother hurt. I've gotten everybody hurt. I was always doing something very stupid. But That's part of being fun, So you've sometimes you have do something dumb in order to make it a memorable experience. So Yeah, sometimes people get hurt when you're having fun. Yeah. And especially when you're kids, I mean, you got no idea. You think jumping off this bridge is safe. You don't know there's broken glass at the bottom of the water. Like it's there's all sorts of things that you just can't quite predict. But we've had some crazy adventures, but but it it makes for a very fun and good dynamic because Trevor does push and he he'd call me and be like, Hey, you need to turn in your edits for the next next step. And hey, you need to get this done. And and he was great to keep pushing me and at the same time patient with me being busy. And it's it's been a challenge with just the the complexity of writing a book and creating something and especially trying to create something where we want to be fresh and bold and new with what we're suggesting and the approach we want people to take, just because of the tragedies we've seen when it does not doesn't happen and when people don't do it. And we've been able to keep a a good, strong relationship, one that we still enjoy each other, even despite having to go through probably a harder task than we expected it to be. I I think I thought it'd be real fun. It is a lot of work. Right, the work's a lot of work. It is. It is. So let's talk about the actual shape of this book because it's pretty unusual. So it's it's like a flip book, right? Trevor's wealth span side on one cover, Caleb's health span side on the other, seven mirrored chapters, and the two of you conversing with each other in the margins. So whose idea was it to do it this way? And what does reading it like that let a person understand that maybe a normal book wouldn't? speaker-1: it was it was it was interesting because you know we're trying to figure out a way to incorporate both subjects, you know, health and wealth. And we didn't think that it was gonna it was gonna work really well if we went from like wealth to, you know, chapter one to health chapter two and then just switch back and forth throughout the book. So we thought what was the best way to separate the subjects and then commingle them at the same time. So that's where we have our inner interjections between each other. And we're adding commentary between each each side of the book. So we're part of both sides of the book. But also I try to use analogies that make, people understand wealth with different health terminologies. And he does the same thing on his side, vice versa. And I think we did a really good job of bridging the two subjects together. speaker-0: It did. It made it a lot of fun. And we we had a lot of of course I brought several very odd ideas to the table. We talked we we were we were joking about a pick a path book with notations at the bottom, turn to chapter five if you like this and of course I loved those, yeah. Right. They were very fun as kids, but you know, I I got I got a little derailed thinking about how fun that would be and there were a lot of times where these guys had to be like, Look, that will not work, people will not buy that. We had to we had to go back and forth with what actually can go mainstream and with what people are looking for, because my some of my creative ideas were way off the wall. But but it was it was very fun to kind of orient ourselves and it brought a lot of the understanding that here we have this wealth side with these chapters, and here we have this health side with these chapters, and like it was just interesting talking about like The concept of high cholesterol being potentially a concept that relates with finance and the concept of diabetes, what did that have to do, or the concept of interest rates and the comp and the context of compounding interests and what does that relate to your health? It was fun noticing that a lot of these terms that we don't frequently bridge between these two worlds have a lot of similar pathways. speaker-1: Yeah. And it's it's interesting. I think health has everything to do with your retirement or your your overall freedom. you can have all the money in the world and you could have the you know, you could be at the top point of your career. But if you you don't have health, you can't enjoy any of that. You can't even perform at the level you want to perform if you don't have health. And the and the problem is you know, a lot of the time most people, you know, they're they're healthy as can be, but they have no money. It's it you know, they're slave to their job because of that. Yeah. You'd have all the money in the world but you can't move. what are you gonna do? You can't climb a mountain, you can't really travel. It's like so how do we balance life and and health and wealth and make sure we have time freedom with money and with any business we own, with, the health that we need to have to enjoy all those things. speaker-0: Yeah, on that note, one of the the hearts of this book is to stop deferring your life to retirement. And Trevor, your side opens with Eric and Sarah, a couple who saved eight million dollars to travel, but received a terminal diagnosis weeks after the planning meeting and never ended up taking a single trip. Why open there? speaker-1: that one that one hit me hard. that's the one that probably changed my life the most. Like you you you save all this money, you don't do anything, you know, with your family as far as travel or, you know, anything on your bucket list that you had as far as you know, hobbies and things like that. They essentially put everything into saving every penny they couldn't and and and spending as little as possible. And and I can tell you I I've seen these stories many times, but that one particularly or particularly it was hard for me because I I did their financial plan before the diagnosis was out. And they had all these plans, this big bucket list. We're gonna travel to each continent. we're going to take our family on cruises. We're going to do all these things that we weren't able to do. because they pushed everything out until retirement. And to see, you to have a client or a client that you put the that type of plan together, because it's It's lot of information and a lot of work that I put into these plans to make sure that they don't run out of money and they can do the things they want to do. I create a plan with purpose. And then for them not to answer my phone call for a while after we finished that plan and then eventually having them call me and let me know that, he had that brain cancer. they hit me hard. And it's like, hey, the doctor said he has three, four months to live. And it's like, Are you kidding me? You know you You spent your whole life saving all this money overtime. You deferred, you deferred your life. You wished your working career away, you know, with all the things that you wanted to do. And the minute you chose to do those things, you know, you you're you're throwing this curveball. And it's like, why? Why are people waiting? I don't want to see this anymore. It's like you have plenty of money. How much money is enough? You need to start doing the things you want to do. And it's like, Even if you don't have a ton of money, it it in different states, there's national parks, there's camping, there there's a drive things are a drive away. And if you can't afford the Europe vacation, you can afford a trip maybe to Thailand. It's a lot cheaper than that. There's so many things you can do before you actually retire. And and I see s people so many times say, Hey, it's Monday, I can't wait till Friday. And it's like, so you're gonna wish your whole week away for the weekend. That doesn't make any sense to me. It's like, why don't you try to make the most of every day and enjoy it every single day? And and more people need to do that. Mo most people don't do that. You know, they they you know, they just try to get to the next weekend or to the next vacation or to retirement. It's like your life's gone by then. I and and I just I wanna be able to be more of a coach, not just a planner for people. I want be a coach as well. And the health aspect of it's so big because you never know when your last day. is gonna happen. That could be tomorrow. And it's like you have all these things you wanna do, do now. you don't need to save every penny. You just need to save enough to be able to retire and not run out of money. And that's where I I help people. speaker-0: Caleb, on your side, you define health span as the gap between what a person thinks they can do and what they can actually do. Why is that the thing to measure? It's so common in my career and my practice that I have people come in and they're limited by knee pain and they they state that they can't walk and they they really feel like if I get this procedure done, I'll finally be able to enjoy my life. I'll finally be able to Get out and take a walk. And the the true answer is is before we want to do a procedure on that person, we want them to increase their flexibility, increase their strength. We want them to prepare for the surgery by getting out and doing the very thing that they claim they don't think they can do right now. And so a lot of times we're trying to educate people that like one of the best ways you can improve your current pain in your shoulder or in your knee. is get out and start moving it. Go to and we send a lot of people to a physical therapist or they will work with their own private coach or or whoever it might be. But the very thing that they think they're coming in to try to get fixed is usually more in their own power than they know. And step one is erase that mindset that you have to you have to have some sort of destination before you can get going. But instead start going right now. I love his analogy when he's talking about vacations and we we talked about that while we were authoring the book. We we are we we understand that not everybody's financial situation is the same. This this might be, buy a couple of air mattresses from the local grocery store and just take the kids to a you know to the middle of nowhere and Read them campfire stories and set up a tent and do something that's just a memory that you build with these people because you have a short span with them and then they're gone. And if and if all you did was talk about how you were broke and you wish you could do this and you wish you could do that, you lose it. Same story. These there's a lot of people that really bank on the the idea that they have to somehow wait until some health tier is reached before they Get going. And the truth of it is you're you're a lot more powerful than you think you are. So just get going. Yeah. you guys really just showcased the whole the whole center of this book where I asked two completely different questions and we ended up at that same finish line, right? I asked about health, I asked about wealth. And the answer to both was really the same thing. It's it's do what you can do now. And I I love that because that's exactly how health span and wealth span. come together, right? So I did want to ask as well, Caleb, a huge chunk of your half is is about treating your body like an investment account, a health portfolio of muscle mass, sleep, gut health, so on. How does a surgeon end up thinking about the body in the same language that Trevor uses for money? It it took a lot of a lot a lot of these discussions to to realize how much how much those vocabularies can mingle because it didn't necessarily come naturally, but the concept as as we brainstormed, we were like, my gosh, these are so coordinated. Like this and and the I I've I've had the the the teaching and the the kind of education that like we need to invest in our health, but I I didn't look at that invest word as a financial word. as much as I did until Trevor and I really started talking. And it just clicked. It made so much sense that this is your this is your retirement account. This is like your body is your vehicle. And just the same way that your money is your vehicle so that you can go out and pay for some things, your body's your vehicle so that you can actually get there. And it's so important that we that we use those the investments and the withdrawals and the deposits and the interest and the the health of the market, so much of that has everything to do with the function of our bodies. And and it's true from a surgeon standpoint, a lot of it's outside of specifically what makes me the most money as a practitioner. I make better money if I am in the operating room with a person asleep and if I'm somehow fixing something inside them. But I spend a lot of time in clinic talking to my patients and I love those conversations and I love those interactions. And at the same time, I want to educate them so that they're better prepared and better ready to do a to do more with their life and just fix this current secular issue. Trevor, for the person listening who thinks they've already done the planning, just like Eric and Sarah, the will, the 401k, the advisor, in your experience, what is the gap that they're probably missing here? speaker-1: No, really it is, we we we call it define your why, find your purpose. it's the carrot and the stick. What what's gonna motivate you to save or to stay on plan while you're saving? And what's your purpose? Your purpose could be I want to be able to have enough money to not run out of money. I mean, everybody wants that. but let's add to the top of that, you know, as far as the icing on the cake. It's like, hey, I want to be able to be do this hobby, I want to be able to spend more time with my family. I want to do more charitable giving. I want to go on more vacations. Or I want to pass more money on when I pass away. It's and how do we accomplish that? What is your purpose? So everyone says they have a plan, but they don't have a purpose. And I would tell you a majority of the time when I meet with people, they're like I go, Do you have a financial plan? And they go, Yeah, you know, I I have a plan and it's usually it's usually that I don't know if you've ever looked at that pie on a statement where it has all the different colors. My little pie with all the different colors of all the assets I own, that's my financial plan. Well, that has nothing really to do with a financial plan other than what your assets are, right? for your net worth. And it it's interesting. You start going through their purpose, you start going through, you know, their income expenses, what their guaranteed income is going to be during retirement. Then you start looking at their net worth, start doing inventory of everything they have, you know, as well as the liabilities, you know, like debts that they have. And then you start going through these things on the date that they want to retire and the goals that they have, and and and that's when you come to, you start planning with purpose and you actually look at, hey, this is how much money you need to be able to do the things you want to do, but also do the things you want to do now before you retire. And that's a whole different conversation than you have the whole industry. Everybody else just talks about, hey, we're gonna put an investment portfolio together for you, or we're just gonna make sure that we think you have enough money. It's like that's not the retirement I dreamed of. my retirement I dreamed of is hey, I want to travel, I want to have good health, I want to, I want to have excess money to do the hobbies I want to do, as well as be able to spend have more time freedom with, my children or grandchildren. And so that that's the difference when people talk about financial plans. And it drives me crazy. But I I I use this analogy. It's it's someone says, Hey, this there's this pretty lot I want to build a house on, and and and to just build a portfolio is almost like walking in the middle of the lot and just start building your house without any architecture or engineering done before you actually build the building. It blows my mind. I would say majority of retirees have no financial plan. And and and even more, people have no plan with purpose. And that's what we're trying to teach. speaker-0: Yeah. the thing you both keep circling and and circle in the book as well is the same question from different sides. What is all of this for? When a reader closes this book, what's the one thing that you each hope has shifted in them? I think the ability to feel empowered, to take some self control to to be able to create what you dream of, I think is the is the big thing that that I want. I want I want people to see that from their their health side, that there are options for what you want to do and that you don't have to be pigeonholed into this lane and it's only this way or no other way. I want I want people to have the freedom to really take the reins back on their mission, their drive, so that they can build the help that they want and dream of. So that they're so their body can be the instrument and tool that they need to do what they want. speaker-1: I I would just say, we're we're we're built or we're we're in a society that's a hustle society, right? And you know, people have a hard time waiting five minutes for a hamburger. So we're we're very reactive. We're very reactive, not not many people are proactive. And that's kind of the society we created created. And what I want them to get out of this book is, hey, I need to start changing the way I think. I need to change the way I think compared to everyone else. And I need to start surrounding myself with people that think like that. some people, it's hard for them to individually think like that or change the way they think. But if you surround yourself with people that actually think that way, then you'll naturally start trending in the way that they think about health and wealth and all those types of things. If you're gonna hang out with all your broke friends all the time, you're probably gonna be broke. If you're probably you're gonna hang out with all these unhealthy friends all the time as well, is you're probably gonna be unhealthy. Start surrounding yourself with the right people. And then, change the way you're thinking, every day, make the most out of every day. Don't wish your week away. Don't wish your whole, working for her away. Do the things that you need to do to get, your bucket list taken care of. I will tell you, when you pass away, you know, those memories are going to be the biggest things that you leave, you know, the trips you took, the hobbies that you had, the friends that you had, the family that you spent time with. You're not going to really care much about your career at that time and you're not going to care about how much you saved. it's important to have enough money. We're not saying spend all your money to do all the things on your bucket list. We're saying that save enough that you're comfortable and you have, you have a little bit of a cushion. But other than that, there you do have a life you need to live. It does cost money to live that life, and and you need to spend some money now and later during retirement to do the things that you want to do. And If you have retirement and you've saved a ton of money and you have no health, then you're not going to enjoy retirement. I've seen it right and left. And, you know, I I've seen people that have sixty million dollars and they're miserable because they don't ever do anything because they're afraid to spend any money. And I've seen people with no money. They spend every penny and they're miserable because they have no time freedom and they're working during retirement. You gotta find balance with everything. So live your life now. But do it in responsible manner and and do it with proper financial planning and then also proper health planning. And and that's essentially what we did with this book is trying to give people a roadmap on how to do that. speaker-0: So as you both mentioned, this has been a conversation between the two of you, writing this book, for the better part of a decade really. How did you find Scribe and what made you trust us with something you'd been carrying so long? speaker-1: I did my research. I I'm a numbers guy. I'm not a big guy that knows how to write a lot of words. Just not good at that. But I have all these ideas in my head. Hm. Caleb does too. And and commingling all these ideas that we have or had were that's quite a mess. And we needed a coach to help us organize all that and write that out for us. And so that's that's what we did and and we needed someone that would actually help us stay on course and get things done. So a guy named Nick helped us and he did such a great job of just making sure that we did our homework all the time to make sure that this got done. And I would just say you guys have a good reputation. The research I did was fantastic. You know, a lot of a wealth advisors like myself have used you guys in the past. Yep. And so compliance is a big thing in my industry as well as you know, the health industry is pretty regulated as well. And so we wanted some people that had some experience with that. So we, you know we didn't get ourselves in a lot of trouble and that we were making sure we were doing all the compliant things that we needed to do to roll out with something like this. So yeah, you Scribe has been just fantastic to work with and and and we're glad we did. speaker-0: Good. Good. I love to hear that. I've read stories of authors like silencing their phone and sitting in a room for eight hours and creating a schedule for themselves and I w I don't think that was the type of construct that that Trevor and I could do or handle or be able to be successful with. We as we worked with Scribe and got to know their their system, one of the One of the things I liked the most and it was just awesome to watch this process evolve as they as we chose to work with Nick, and I don't know if it matters if we bring up his name, we can say that his protect name is Nick and that no one would know. Yeah. No, I'm sure he'd love the name drop. Don't worry about it. But the the the steps that I mean, the the system is methodical and so helpful for for people with good ideas. Trevor and I had these great ideas and we have a wealth of experience and And we, as you can tell, we don't have any trouble talking. And so, you ask us qu a question and we are very quickly derailed about something that's on our brain as opposed to maybe answering the exact question. But we got to work with Nick, who first created very general ideas, and then he then used that to create the next step, and then he used that to build into the next step. And watching this flow of ideas coordinate and how it then became individual chapters and then it became individual ideas within chapters and and how we could coordinate the finance and the health side and how we intentionally overlapped them and used the same concepts and vocabulary between the two. It to me it was awesome to watch and I I wouldn't have expected it. It's like nothing I'd ever done but but the the way that your your company has the has this has that like roadmap and and situation and and steps set up. For people with great ideas, it was it was awesome because all we had to do was talk about something passionate about and talk about something we love, which is easy for us. And in the end it was, you know, coordinated and navigated by a professional who knew what they were doing so that we didn't have to way outside of our talent and outside of our lane. And this beautiful product came out of it. And it was it was awesome. Nick did a fantastic job. When we when we interviewed people, he just stood out and and he was great. Good, good. I love to hear that. I'm sure Nick would love to hear that as well. For the person out there sitting on an idea they've talked about for years, just like you two did, but haven't started and and don't really know how to start. What would you tell them about putting their ideas onto the page? speaker-1: Yeah, as far as working with scribe. speaker-0: Or just getting a book out of their brain. speaker-1: I c I I come back to that 'cause it did take seven, eight years to do this and it's it's it's interesting because I felt like it was supposed to take that long to be able to do that. But I would just say, the first place to start is start jotting down ideas and trying to outline it on what you're trying to create and then continue to add to those ideas and have conversations about those with professionals like Scribe to see if it it's right at that moment. But the biggest thing for us, we deferred it. I th I and I and I can't say this is the the right thing for everyone because we really needed to unsplit our own lives to be able to come up with it. But those other individuals are probably in a different situation. It's I would say deal with professionals, have them outline a step and schedule for you and just get started. Just just start rolling with it. speaker-0: So the two of you turned eight years, seven to ten, I think is the timeline that was presented to me somewhere in in there. That speaker-1: We don't really know. We know the one. speaker-0: So so many years, you turned many years of conversation into a finished book. So what now? How do you see Unsplode shaping your future? speaker-1: Well, obviously we're living by those things and I think even when we went through this process we could identify things for ourselves that we can do better. Right? But now we gotta get out there and start, getting it in front of people. And scribe has helped a little bit with that. But we're gonna have to start doing these types of podcasts and other things and start, telling more people about the book. speaker-0: Yeah, getting it out there. Absolutely. I think I think that's exactly right. step one and as we as we did this, you know, putting the ideas on to paper really gives you a lot of clarity of what you are and are not good at. And I I spent some time thinking about like, man, I'm I'm preaching a message that I also need to hear. And so and that that sometimes I was like, I don't I don't want to stand in front of people and then be like Look at this guy. He's talking about what he's good at and he's preaching this, but look at what he did. I've I'll call Trevor. I'll be like, Trevor, I think I need to buy this. And he's like, You're an idiot. But but at the same time, like, you know, 'cause 'cause I I I get excited about something, but but the the concepts that we wrote, step one, are so awesome to make sure that we're in alignment with what we know is right. So so the book the book can help us align ourselves. I think that has happened. And then just in talking to friends, family, and hearing the the stories we hear when we have interactions with people are the stories that are already in the book. there's there's so many ways the same story can be told, but it's just great to be able to tell a person when you talk to them and be like, yeah, that is addressed. the The concept you're talking about, the thing you struggle with, the odds are pretty decent that we've got a story in this book that correlates with what that person's going through. And that's why we wrote it to say, hey, look, we get what you're talking about. We've dealt with it. We've got decades of experience in our individual careers. And you've got a person who's committed to your financial happiness, not just like a financial plan so that you can be rich in the future. Trevor's a guy who he wants you to be financially happy. And and that's our goal to take take this message to people and say, hey like we get it. People are gonna tell you save, save, save. When I got out of residency, they're like, continue living like a resident, save, save, save. And I'm like, yo, residency danger broke my like capacity to survive being this budgeted. Like I've got to do a little more. But it was, people were harassing you, no, keep living exactly as poor as you've been, Steve, pay off your loans. And I'm like, maybe that'll work, but for me to be financially happy, that didn't work. And and Trevor's the advisor that will be like, Right, you're not the same as that guy. Let's work on your plan. Let's find out how it works for you. And on the same token, like, not everybody can be a gym rat. Not everybody can run triathlons. but what is it that you're going to want to do? make it individual. Let's let's find your way to be happy with your health. Let's find your way to be happy with your feelings. That's so that's that's our goal. We're trying to we're trying to as far as the next steps, it's it's podcasts like this. It's our own podcast. It's hopefully some opportunities to speak and to educate and get the book in people's hands and we hope that We hope that we can just encourage people to find what drives them so that their plan is individual and set up for success. Well said. You're really walking the talk, aligning yourselves, as you said. This one might be a little bit tough, but one idea from Unsplode goes up on a billboard. What does it say? speaker-1: I i I I guess my whole vision for the book a big unsplode, how to approach your well spend and health span, how to live your life now and how do you live your life later. I think that's the biggest approach I would like to take with it, because that's the main synopsis of the book as a balanced life. But you know, a life deferred is a life gone and you know, a healthy Balanced life is is one where you find true happiness. speaker-0: Yeah. A life deferred is a life gone. That's a good billboard. That that sounds like it would go on a billboard. I like that. speaker-1: Thank you. speaker-0: Crap, Trevor did really good. The big repetitive thing you'll see, and I I think that if there was if you could put on I I I think of Las Vegas. That's where I that's where I that live and practice in. So there'd be three billboards, they'd be back to back, so that you'd catch the first one and it would say purpose. Plan is the second one with another question mark. And then the next billboard says unsplode now. Hmm. Because it because in my in in my mind the The biggest thing and I love how Trevor has worded it and he's really created this concept with his financial with his financial plan is creating a purposeful plan. We we ha we need to have the tools available to know the know the steps we can take, but step one is like be in alignment with your goals, like at least know what they are, and then go get And so so we've gotta we've gotta first be be creating the creating our idea of the road towards our destination so that we can then use the tools properly to get us along that way. I like it. Purpose, plan, unsplowed now. So unsploded is out now. Where should people go grab a copy and how should they keep up with both of you? speaker-1: Right. So we actually have a website link. It's unsplowed dot com. So you can go in there, you can actually take quizzes and tell you where you need balance. You need more wealth balance and more health balance. And then it'll let you read a chapter or two for free and then it'll show you all the links of where you can buy a book. Most people are going to Amazon to do that. But it we're on all the different big book websites. speaker-0: Perfect. Any social medias you'd like to plug? Anyway speaker-1: No, we have yeah, we have unsplowed on LinkedIn, we have unsplowed on Facebook, we have unsplowed on Instagram as well. We're on all three. speaker-0: Perfect. speaker-1: So we're just we're just getting started. We started filming our podcasts two, three weeks ago. So we'll start rolling off with those online. So you'll you'll s you'll have those on YouTube as well. But we're gonna have unsplowed all over the place. It's a new word. And so, you know, everyone's gonna have to learn how to spell it. And and once people start using that word, they're gonna probably add it to the dictionary because it's so awesome. speaker-0: I like it. Yeah. Is does the podcast have an official name or are we still working on that? speaker-1: It's a unsplow. speaker-0: Unsplode. Nice. Keeping it keeping it simple for people to find. I like it. speaker-1: the same title and subtitle as the book. speaker-0: Perfect. Well, thank you both. Caleb, Trevor. On behalf of the entire Scribe team and a lot of readers who need exactly this kind of message, we cannot wait for more people to get their hands on Unsplode. Thank you for coming on.