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Hell and Gone Murder Line: Christina Pipkin Part 1 (Archive Episode) · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

0:46
Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
0:52
Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
0:55
Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
0:58
Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
1:03
Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
1:06
Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has
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Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
1:17
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
1:21
Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
1:24
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
1:27
Speaker 2: On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, nine year old Christina
1:31
Speaker 2: Pipkin had lunch with her mother, Freda, at her home
1:34
Speaker 2: in Hickory Ridge, Arkansas. Christina was just a month away
1:38
Speaker 2: from her tenth birthday. Hickory Ridge is a small farming
1:42
Speaker 2: community in East ark Kansaw down Highway forty nine, about
1:46
Speaker 2: eighty miles west of Memphis, Tennessee. Back then, it had
1:50
Speaker 2: a population of just over four hundred people. Today it's
1:54
Speaker 2: between two and three hundred people. But you get the idea.
1:57
Speaker 2: This is not a major metropolis. You have to remember
2:00
Speaker 2: this was a time when kids would roam around after school.
2:03
Speaker 2: That was a lot more common than it is today.
2:06
Speaker 2: They would ride bikes and play in the woods, and
2:08
Speaker 2: of course this was also a time before cell phones.
2:12
Speaker 2: Christina Pipkin had a mission that day. She wanted to
2:16
Speaker 2: walk door to door to sell costume jewelry for her
2:18
Speaker 2: school fundraiser. She had her leaflet with the jewelry listings
2:22
Speaker 2: on it and was carrying a pencil so that people
2:24
Speaker 2: could mark down what they wanted to order. Christina asked
2:28
Speaker 2: her dad, James, if she could go around to neighbors houses,
2:32
Speaker 2: and at first he said no, but Christina asked again
2:36
Speaker 2: and he relented. But her father gave her strict instructions
2:41
Speaker 2: stay on your side of the railroad tracks and be
2:44
Speaker 2: home by dark. But Christina didn't make it back home
2:48
Speaker 2: before dark. On May fourth, nineteen ninety one, sunset and
2:54
Speaker 2: Hickory Ridge, Arkansas, happened at around seven fifty six pm.
2:59
Speaker 2: Christina's parents, James and Frieda, reported her missing to the
3:03
Speaker 2: Cross County Sheriff's department at eight fifty three pm. Soon
3:07
Speaker 2: everyone was looking for her. Over two hundred volunteers were
3:11
Speaker 2: searching the entire area. They covered a fifteen mile radius.
3:16
Speaker 2: They were calling friends and knocking on doors going to
3:19
Speaker 2: nearby houses, but there was no sign of Christina anywhere.
3:23
Speaker 2: Christina's description went out Christina Pipkin, age nine, four foot nine,
3:28
Speaker 2: weight eighty pounds. She was wearing a white desert storm
3:32
Speaker 2: T shirt with Kuwait on the front and closed toe
3:36
Speaker 2: white sandals. Three days later, on May seventh, nineteen ninety one,
3:43
Speaker 2: a father and son who lived a few miles away
3:46
Speaker 2: right across the Jackson County line, were walking through their
3:49
Speaker 2: rice fields. There had been some flooding recently, so they
3:52
Speaker 2: were looking around on their property to check the water levels.
3:56
Speaker 2: They lived near a large canal called cow Lake Ditch.
4:00
Speaker 2: After the flooding, the water levels were much higher than normal.
4:04
Speaker 2: Police later said the levels were up to around nine
4:07
Speaker 2: feet that day, and as they were walking over the
4:10
Speaker 2: bridge that crossed Highway forty two, the seven year old
4:14
Speaker 2: son saw something in the water. He said, Dad, isn't
4:18
Speaker 2: that the girl that's missing. They had found the body
4:23
Speaker 2: of Christina Pipkin. I'm Catherine Townsend. If you have a
4:28
Speaker 2: case you'd like me and my team to look into,
4:31
Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone
4:33
Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six'
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Speaker 2: one four. Five this Is Helen Gone Murder. LINE a
5:28
Speaker 2: few weeks, ago a woman Named Amy tubbs reached out to.
5:31
Speaker 2: Me she had been investigating The Christina pipkin case for,
5:35
Speaker 2: years ever since she learned that her father in, Law Robbie, Tubbs.
5:39
Speaker 2: Sr had been a suspect in that.
5:41
Speaker 3: Case So i'm Married Robbie Tubbs, senior his son who
5:48
Speaker 3: shares the same, name except there's a junior behind. It
5:52
Speaker 3: so we started dating in twenty, fourteen and on one
5:56
Speaker 3: of our first, dates my mom called me really freaked
6:00
Speaker 3: out and she, said oh my, gosh are you with?
6:05
Speaker 3: Him you need to get your stuff and leave right.
6:08
Speaker 3: Now and what are you talking? About and her and
6:13
Speaker 3: my aunt had googled his name obviously and found you,
6:18
Speaker 3: know the various articles linking him To christina and NOT
6:24
Speaker 3: i guess thought about the dates and how you know
6:27
Speaker 3: he was the child himself would not, happen and so
6:30
Speaker 3: he was, like, well this is not HOW i wanted
6:33
Speaker 3: to tell you about, that but here we.
6:36
Speaker 2: Go amy said that she's always had an interest in true.
6:40
Speaker 2: Crime she wanted to know the truth about what. Happened
6:43
Speaker 2: so she did a deep dive into the, case and
6:46
Speaker 2: the more she, learned the more questions she.
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Speaker 3: Had so WHEN i started looking into the case and
6:52
Speaker 3: just kind of googling, IT i couldn't believe that there
6:55
Speaker 3: was so little evidence that they used against him and
7:01
Speaker 3: that they were seeking the death.
7:02
Speaker 2: Penalty christina's body was found in Cow Lake. Ditch she
7:09
Speaker 2: was face down and her head was caught in a tree,
7:12
Speaker 2: Branch so even though the current was really strong and
7:15
Speaker 2: the water levels were, High christina was wedged in, there.
7:19
Speaker 2: Trapped the police recovered the body and sent it for.
7:22
Speaker 2: Testing they later revealed That christina's body had no sign
7:26
Speaker 2: of injuries on it and that she was fully. Clothed
7:31
Speaker 2: christina's family members said early on that she couldn't. Swim
7:36
Speaker 2: but even though the police said they found no obvious
7:39
Speaker 2: signs of molestation On christina's, Body Dale, arnold the state police,
7:43
Speaker 2: investigator said very early on police suspected foul. Play they
7:48
Speaker 2: did not believe That christina had gotten to Cow Lake
7:51
Speaker 2: ditch on her. Own Cross County Sheriff Ronnie hughey said,
7:56
Speaker 2: quote there were no marks on, her no, scratches no,
7:59
Speaker 2: trauma nothing BUT i think it's foul. Play somebody caused
8:03
Speaker 2: that child to be in that ditchway out there end.
8:06
Speaker 2: Quote but if there was no, obvious visible sign of,
8:11
Speaker 2: assault why are they so certain that this involved foul.
8:14
Speaker 3: Play nobody in that town will talk to. ME i
8:20
Speaker 3: don't know if it's because my Name's. TUBS i mean
8:24
Speaker 3: there's a strong. Chance but about that state police had
8:27
Speaker 3: everything locked down and started acting real fishy WHEN i
8:31
Speaker 3: started asking. QUESTIONS i guess the reason why they suspect
8:35
Speaker 3: foul play was two. Things, one it was about three
8:41
Speaker 3: miles from her house and they don't feel like she
8:44
Speaker 3: would have gone that. Far and she had on white
8:48
Speaker 3: closed toad sandals the last time anyone, saw and they
8:52
Speaker 3: never faiund those.
8:53
Speaker 2: Sandals amy has done a lot of work over the.
9:01
Speaker 2: Years she's submitted multiple foyer, Requests she's contacted people and
9:05
Speaker 2: mapped out, locations and as she, mentioned she said That
9:09
Speaker 2: christina's body was found around three miles away from her,
9:13
Speaker 2: home but some newspaper reports say the distance between Where
9:17
Speaker 2: christina was last seen and the ditch where she was
9:19
Speaker 2: eventually found was around four. Miles others estimate the distances
9:23
Speaker 2: closer to five. Miles and it's confusing because WHEN i
9:28
Speaker 2: looked On Google maps and tried to map this location,
9:31
Speaker 2: myself it showed a walking distance of nine, miles which
9:35
Speaker 2: would have Taken christina about three hours to get. To
9:39
Speaker 2: this does not seem, plausible BUT i know this is
9:43
Speaker 2: a rural area and appearances can be. Deceiving sometimes distances
9:48
Speaker 2: are not an accurate depiction of what's actually going on
9:50
Speaker 2: on the. Ground sometimes there are shortcuts that we can't see.
9:54
Speaker 2: Online SO i feel like this is one of those
9:57
Speaker 2: questions That i'm going to have to go To arkansas to.
10:00
Speaker 2: Answer After christina went, missing detectives went around the neighborhood
10:07
Speaker 2: and interviewed the people who had last seen. Her while,
10:10
Speaker 2: canvassing they talked to a woman Named Elsie. Lyles Elsie
10:14
Speaker 2: lyles lived On Dotye, street right down From christina's. House
10:19
Speaker 2: elsie said That christina had stopped by her house at
10:21
Speaker 2: around four. Pm elsie said she Gave christina a pickle
10:26
Speaker 2: as a. Snack after eating that, Pickle christina Left elsie's
10:30
Speaker 2: house and walked. Home that's when she asked her dad
10:34
Speaker 2: if she could walk around to do her door to
10:36
Speaker 2: door jewelry. Sales christina had two school friends with. Her
10:41
Speaker 2: they told police that for the next or so they
10:45
Speaker 2: went around selling their jewelry door to. Door according to
10:48
Speaker 2: the Information amy, has the girls told law enforcement they
10:52
Speaker 2: Left christina at about six thirty pm At East Ash.
10:56
Speaker 2: Street this was just a couple of blocks From christina's. Home,
11:00
Speaker 2: NOW i haven't seen any of the official reports pertaining
11:03
Speaker 2: To christina's. Case technically it's still an open case. FILE
11:07
Speaker 2: i have made a foyer request AND i will let
11:10
Speaker 2: you know IF i hear back from. Police BUT i
11:14
Speaker 2: just want to put it out. THERE i would love
11:16
Speaker 2: to talk to those, girls if they are out there
11:18
Speaker 2: and if they're listening to, this BECAUSE i believe they
11:21
Speaker 2: could have crucial information About christina's activities that, afternoon and
11:25
Speaker 2: they might not even realize how important it. Is detectives
11:32
Speaker 2: later found remnants of the pickle In christina's, stomach partially,
11:36
Speaker 2: undigested which means that police believe she died on the
11:41
Speaker 2: same day she went. Missing so we go back to that,
11:44
Speaker 2: Day may, fourth nineteen ninety. One it's late, afternoon getting
11:49
Speaker 2: to early. Evening christina's friends parted ways with her at
11:53
Speaker 2: around six thirty. Pm, Now christina's dad specifically told her
11:58
Speaker 2: to be home before. Dark so whether it was three
12:02
Speaker 2: or four miles or nine, miles what would make a
12:05
Speaker 2: little girl suddenly decide to walk on her own to
12:09
Speaker 2: a ditch right before dark when she couldn't. Swim there
12:14
Speaker 2: were a few other odd facts about the case that
12:17
Speaker 2: could seem to point toward foul. Play they're mainly, circumstantial
12:21
Speaker 2: like the fact that detectives never found the items That
12:24
Speaker 2: christina was carrying when she left her. House they didn't
12:27
Speaker 2: find her, jewelry, leaflets or the pencil she was carrying
12:30
Speaker 2: around with her to write down. Orders, Also christina's body
12:35
Speaker 2: was fully, clothed as we said, before she was wearing
12:38
Speaker 2: the same things she'd been wearing the afternoon she, disappeared
12:41
Speaker 2: but her shoes were, missing and no one ever found
12:44
Speaker 2: her clothes toe white. Sandals so what happened to the?
12:49
Speaker 2: Shoes did she take them off? Herself could someone have
12:53
Speaker 2: been chasing her through those, dense watery rice fields and
12:56
Speaker 2: her shoes peeled off her, Feet that is, Possible or
13:00
Speaker 2: was she hanging out at someone's house or in their
13:02
Speaker 2: car and took them off. Herself if she was, killed
13:06
Speaker 2: did the killer take the shoes did they throw them
13:09
Speaker 2: away or did they still have them stashed. Somewhere these
13:12
Speaker 2: are all the types of dark possibilities that have occurred
13:15
Speaker 2: to me with this. Case as we said, before the
13:21
Speaker 2: sheriff Of Cross, county Where christina and her family, Lived Ronnie,
13:25
Speaker 2: hughey actually said at the time the detectives Believed christina
13:29
Speaker 2: was picked up and driven to the site where her
13:31
Speaker 2: body was, found and he's given a couple of reasons
13:35
Speaker 2: over the years to media about why he thinks. This
13:38
Speaker 2: first of, all he, said if she walked to that
13:41
Speaker 2: area would have taken a pretty long, time and he
13:44
Speaker 2: believes someone would have seen her out. Walking number two
13:49
Speaker 2: kind of along the same lines AS i was, thinking
13:52
Speaker 2: just the fact that it was near. Dark christina was
13:55
Speaker 2: a couple of blocks from, home and she was supposed
13:57
Speaker 2: to be home before. Dark why would she randomly turn
14:00
Speaker 2: around and walk in the other direction hours away to
14:04
Speaker 2: a flooded ditch when she couldn't. Swim detectives did a
14:08
Speaker 2: lot of, interviews but they didn't make any, arrests and
14:12
Speaker 2: over the, years a lot of people in the county
14:15
Speaker 2: wondered why the case seemed to go cold And christina's
14:19
Speaker 2: body was not the last child's body found In east
14:23
Speaker 2: dark andsas over the next few. Years On october, thirteenth
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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, one a few months After christina's body was,
14:30
Speaker 2: found sixteen year Old Guardinia Jones cross. Disappeared guardinia was
14:35
Speaker 2: a tenth grader at high school in, when a nearby.
14:38
Speaker 2: Town she lived with her, Grandmother Hattie. Cross guardina was
14:42
Speaker 2: also a young mother. Herself she was raising a one
14:45
Speaker 2: year old. Daughter guardinia's, Grandmother, hattie reported her, missing But
14:51
Speaker 2: guardina was not missing for long because the next, day
14:54
Speaker 2: On october, fourteenth a man was walking along the side
14:58
Speaker 2: of a road Called Moore road outside of when he
15:01
Speaker 2: was collecting cans and he saw a body naked except
15:05
Speaker 2: for a. Bra it Was Guardinia. Cross guardena had a
15:11
Speaker 2: puncture wound in her, head which investigators theorized was made
15:16
Speaker 2: with something like a, tool maybe a, screwdriver and unlike
15:21
Speaker 2: In christina's, case this time there was no ambiguity this
15:25
Speaker 2: had been a brutal. Murder forensic testing revealed something. Else
15:29
Speaker 2: when she, Died Guardenia cross was around five months. Pregnant
15:34
Speaker 2: no one was arrested or charged with that. Murder In
15:41
Speaker 2: may of nineteen ninety. Two another young, girl a thirteen
15:45
Speaker 2: year old Named Geneva, smith was reported. Missing On june,
15:49
Speaker 2: first a body was found in The Saint Francis. River
15:53
Speaker 2: remember this was back in the, nineties BEFORE dna testing was,
15:56
Speaker 2: widespread and police had nothing to go. On they didn't
16:00
Speaker 2: even have dental records to compare With. Geneva but investigators
16:04
Speaker 2: said at the time they were ninety nine percent sure
16:07
Speaker 2: that the body was her based on the clothing that
16:10
Speaker 2: she was. Wearing the shoes and shirt matched the description
16:13
Speaker 2: That geneva's family had given of what she'd been wearing
16:15
Speaker 2: the day she went. Missing this was a. Tragedy they
16:20
Speaker 2: did eventually determine that this Was Geneva. Smith the body
16:24
Speaker 2: was so decomposed they weren't able to determine the exact
16:28
Speaker 2: cause of. Death and not only, that all they could
16:31
Speaker 2: determine at first was that the victim was. Black they
16:35
Speaker 2: couldn't even figure out what gender the body. Was it
16:38
Speaker 2: was that badly decomposed and. BRUTALIZED i cannot imagine how
16:43
Speaker 2: horrifying that must have been for that young woman's. Family
16:48
Speaker 2: so what happened in that. Case eventually police did make an.
16:52
Speaker 2: Arrest they charged two suspects with that, killing but those
16:57
Speaker 2: two men were, released So Geneva smith's killer or killers
17:01
Speaker 2: are also still out. There then In may of nineteen ninety,
17:09
Speaker 2: three there, was of, course the three eight year old,
17:13
Speaker 2: Boys Michael, Moore Steve branch And Christopher, byers the boys
17:17
Speaker 2: who had become known as The West Memphis. Three the
17:20
Speaker 2: three friends went out for an after school bike ride
17:23
Speaker 2: and they never came. Home their mutilated bodies were found
17:27
Speaker 2: in a nearby. Swamp, now eventually this case became a national,
17:32
Speaker 2: sensation and most of my listeners will be familiar with
17:35
Speaker 2: what happened. Next in The West memphis three, case sixteen
17:38
Speaker 2: year Old jesse Mus, kelly seventeen year Old James, baldwin
17:41
Speaker 2: and eighteen year Old Damian eccles were, arrested, prosecuted and eventually.
17:45
Speaker 2: Convicted jesse And james got life, Sentences damien was sentenced to.
17:50
Speaker 2: Death all of them sat in jail for many years
17:54
Speaker 2: before numerous documentaries and books came out about this, case
17:58
Speaker 2: and they documented the many injustices that had, happened the
18:01
Speaker 2: fact that there was NO dna evidence that matched any of,
18:04
Speaker 2: them no physical, evidence and there were a lot of
18:08
Speaker 2: problems With jesse mckelly's confession in, particular which had gone
18:11
Speaker 2: on for over twelve. Hours, Basically, Damien, james And jesse
18:15
Speaker 2: were convicted in an atmosphere of fear In West, memphis
18:19
Speaker 2: and this followed the satanic panic hysteria that happened during
18:23
Speaker 2: the nineteen. Eighties Because damien was this kind of weird
18:26
Speaker 2: local guy who listened to heavy metal and wore black
18:29
Speaker 2: and was reportedly into, witchcraft the police just a laser
18:33
Speaker 2: focused on him and they refused to change. Course over the,
18:37
Speaker 2: years all three of them maintained their innocence and NEW
18:40
Speaker 2: dna testing was done in two thousand and. Seven it
18:43
Speaker 2: was a nounce that THE dna found at the crime
18:45
Speaker 2: scene did not match any of. Them it didn't Match,
18:47
Speaker 2: Damien jesse Or. James, furthermore there WAS dna at that crime,
18:52
Speaker 2: scene THE dna of an unknown. Man in twenty, ten
18:58
Speaker 2: The Supreme court ruled that the defendants could present new
19:02
Speaker 2: evidence to establish their. Innocence so the three of them
19:07
Speaker 2: have been sitting in jail for over twenty years and
19:09
Speaker 2: they were getting ready for a new, trial, which as
19:12
Speaker 2: we all, know could have taken. Years that's when one
19:15
Speaker 2: of the defense attorneys suggested the men take something called
19:18
Speaker 2: An alfred. Plea, now An alfred plea is kind of.
19:21
Speaker 2: Unique what it means is that they could still claim
19:24
Speaker 2: they were innocent while not changing their guilty. Plea it's
19:29
Speaker 2: kind of a way of having it both. Ways the
19:31
Speaker 2: state gets to save. Face they don't have to have
19:34
Speaker 2: a new. Trial they still have their guilty, plea And,
19:37
Speaker 2: Damian jesse And james don't have to waste more years
19:41
Speaker 2: of their lives waiting for a new. Trial they get
19:43
Speaker 2: to get out of jail and start their. Lives so
19:45
Speaker 2: in twenty, eleven that's what. Happened the three defendants were
19:49
Speaker 2: released without having to go through a new trial and
19:51
Speaker 2: having the verdict. Overturn it's an ambiguous. Result the case
19:56
Speaker 2: is still. Open damien and his attorneys are still fighting
19:59
Speaker 2: to GET dna from the crime. Scene An arkansas judge
20:02
Speaker 2: has denied that. Request the judge said that he was
20:06
Speaker 2: denying the request Because damien's out of prison. Now damien
20:10
Speaker 2: and his lawyers have appealed this decision to The Arkansas Supreme,
20:13
Speaker 2: court and they are still waiting to find out if
20:15
Speaker 2: THAT dna testing can. Happen, remember this saga has been
20:18
Speaker 2: going on for over thirty years at this, point and
20:21
Speaker 2: there's still no final. ANSWER i bring this case up
20:25
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i absolutely believe that if it hadn't been for
20:29
Speaker 2: the fact that all of these injustices were documented by
20:32
Speaker 2: journalists and books and, documentaries the problems with this case
20:36
Speaker 2: would never have been. Revealed all three of those, Guys, Damien,
20:40
Speaker 2: jesse And james would still be sitting in prison right.
20:43
Speaker 2: NOW i really believe. That and this was all going
20:46
Speaker 2: on in the early. Nineties especially during this, time there
20:49
Speaker 2: were some very real abuses going on In, arkansas both
20:52
Speaker 2: in law enforcement and in the crime, lab and the
20:55
Speaker 2: repercussions of those mistakes are still going on to this. Day,
21:00
Speaker 2: also if those three guys weren't the, killers that means
21:04
Speaker 2: that the actual killer of The West memphis, three the
21:07
Speaker 2: person or persons who mutilated those three little boys and
21:11
Speaker 2: dumped them in the, swamp is still out, there and
21:14
Speaker 2: a lot of people worry they may never be. Charged
21:17
Speaker 2: who knows how many predatory child killers are still out
21:21
Speaker 2: there In East arkansas. Now despite the fact that all
21:28
Speaker 2: of these deaths happened in the same general, area investigators
21:32
Speaker 2: have never found a connection between any of them between
21:35
Speaker 2: The West memphis, Three Guardina Cross, Jones Geneva, smith And Christina.
21:39
Speaker 2: Pipkin there were a lot of. Differences the dead children
21:42
Speaker 2: were different. Ages, guardina like The West MEMPHIS, iii had
21:46
Speaker 2: a lot of damage to her, body, while for, Example
21:49
Speaker 2: christina did not have any obvious marks on. Her Apparently
21:52
Speaker 2: Geneva smith's body was too decomposed to know for. Sure
21:57
Speaker 2: Cross County Sheriff Ronnie hughey expressed his frustration back. Then he, said,
22:01
Speaker 2: quote you keep scratching and clawing and. Digging these kinds
22:06
Speaker 2: of cases are different because these are. Kids we've been
22:09
Speaker 2: backwards and. Forwards it's been very. Frustrating end. Quote now
22:15
Speaker 2: let's come back to The Christina pipkin. Case let's talk
22:18
Speaker 2: about what happened after police finally made an. Arrest police
22:23
Speaker 2: were questioning everyone in the neighborhood that were checking out
22:25
Speaker 2: potential people of, interest, including from what my source, says
22:29
Speaker 2: some local sex, offenders including one guy From florida who
22:33
Speaker 2: was living. Nearby then they began to focus on someone
22:37
Speaker 2: they considered A bible. Suspect and this is Where amy's
22:40
Speaker 2: father in, Law Robbie, tubbs enters the story and he
22:43
Speaker 2: admits that her father in law, was in her, words
22:47
Speaker 2: not a particularly good. Man back in the early, Nineties
22:52
Speaker 2: robbie was married and he and his, Wife sandra had five.
22:55
Speaker 2: Kids according To, Amy robbie was physically abusive with his
22:59
Speaker 2: Wife sandra at. Times robbie didn't have a regular nine
23:03
Speaker 2: to five. Job he always did kind of side. Jobs
23:06
Speaker 2: he would go out turtle hunting and fishing and selling
23:09
Speaker 2: things that he. Caught Sandra tubbs talked to the police
23:14
Speaker 2: In october of nineteen ninety, one a few months After
23:18
Speaker 2: christina's body was. Found when she came in to see,
23:21
Speaker 2: them she told them that back When christina first went,
23:24
Speaker 2: Missing robbie had made a comment to her that she
23:27
Speaker 2: said disturbed her and it led her to believe that he,
23:30
Speaker 2: had in a way potentially confessed To christina's. Murder sandra
23:35
Speaker 2: Said robbie told, her right after hearing That christina was,
23:38
Speaker 2: missing that he Knew christina would turn up dead in
23:41
Speaker 2: a rice ditch In Jackson. County she told police That robbie, said,
23:46
Speaker 2: quote there are too many rice ditches for somebody to drown.
23:50
Speaker 2: In she's dead end. Quote sandra said she confronted her
23:54
Speaker 2: husband and started asking him what he meant by that.
23:56
Speaker 2: Comment when she, did the fight seemed to. Escalate sandra
24:01
Speaker 2: said she threatened to call the, police and that's when
24:04
Speaker 2: she Said robbie tied her up and gagged her to
24:07
Speaker 2: stop her from calling law. Enforcement sandra told a friend of,
24:11
Speaker 2: hers a woman Named, susan the same story at the. Time,
24:15
Speaker 2: later police Called sandra's friend and took a statement from,
24:18
Speaker 2: her and that friend confirmed that, Yes sandra had told
24:21
Speaker 2: her that story at around the time When christina went.
24:24
Speaker 2: Missing so the police went to talk To Robbie. Tubbs
24:28
Speaker 2: Arkansas State police Investigator Dale arnold did the. Interview according
24:32
Speaker 2: to police, documents the first time That Dale arnold talked To,
24:36
Speaker 2: Robbie robbie claimed he was not in the area Of
24:39
Speaker 2: Hickory ridge at all On may, fourth nineteen ninety, one
24:43
Speaker 2: so he said he was nowhere near the area Where
24:46
Speaker 2: christina went missing, From but later he apparently changed his.
24:50
Speaker 2: Story he said he may have been around there on
24:52
Speaker 2: the Day christina. Disappeared police were finding issues With robbie's.
24:57
Speaker 2: Alibi robbie claimed he had been staying in a motel And, DeWitt,
25:01
Speaker 2: arkansas but police checked the motel registration they couldn't find
25:05
Speaker 2: any record Of robbie staying, there probably because police Believed
25:10
Speaker 2: christina had been driven to that. Location, obviously they were
25:13
Speaker 2: checking out every person of interest. Car at some point
25:17
Speaker 2: police figured out That robbie had a, car a nineteen
25:20
Speaker 2: eighty ONE Amc eagle that he had sold sometime in
25:24
Speaker 2: the spring of nineteen ninety, one so this Is december
25:27
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety. One After sandra came to see, them
25:31
Speaker 2: police found the woman Who robbie had sold the car.
25:33
Speaker 2: To it wasn't, running just sitting out in her yard
25:37
Speaker 2: where it had been sitting for. Months but police went
25:40
Speaker 2: out and found the vehicle and did forensic testing on that.
25:43
Speaker 2: Car they got a hair sample which they bagged as. Evidence,
25:48
Speaker 2: Now robbie's private life was. Complicated he was married To,
25:52
Speaker 2: sandra but he had been seeing another woman Named. Janetta
25:56
Speaker 2: police Asked robbi during their questioning If christina could have
26:00
Speaker 2: ever been inside his, car and apparently at one point
26:04
Speaker 2: he said That christina and another child may have sat
26:07
Speaker 2: in his car With. Janetta apparently her child went to
26:11
Speaker 2: the same school As. Christina, anyway he said that he
26:15
Speaker 2: and these, kids one of whom may have Been, christina
26:19
Speaker 2: sat in his car in a nearby park With. Janetta
26:22
Speaker 2: but then police talked To, janetta she said that wasn't.
26:25
Speaker 2: True she Said christina was never in that car and
26:28
Speaker 2: that they had never been in that. Park so Now
26:32
Speaker 2: robbie's alibi seemed to be kind of falling. APART i
26:36
Speaker 2: want to point, out, though that without access to the case,
26:39
Speaker 2: file without recordings of what, happened we don't know what
26:42
Speaker 2: happened Before robbie made those. Statements we don't know what
26:45
Speaker 2: the police Told, robbie how long they had him in.
26:48
Speaker 2: Custody were these statements coerced in any. Way i'm not
26:52
Speaker 2: saying that they. Were i'm just saying, that given what
26:55
Speaker 2: was going on In arkansas at that, time we need
26:58
Speaker 2: to know for sure how that questioning went. Down growing,
27:02
Speaker 2: UP i used to always think that if you hadn't
27:04
Speaker 2: done anything, wrong that there was no way that you
27:06
Speaker 2: would lie in a police interrogation. Room but after What
27:10
Speaker 2: i've learned over the, YEARS i now no longer believe
27:12
Speaker 2: THAT i want to know the context of what was being.
27:15
Speaker 2: Said police Had sandra's statement About, robbie and they had
27:20
Speaker 2: that hair sample From robbie's former. Vehicle, now forensic testing
27:24
Speaker 2: was not nearly as advanced in nineteen ninety one as
27:27
Speaker 2: it is now, obviously so the testing police could have
27:30
Speaker 2: done on that hair at the time would have been pretty.
27:32
Speaker 2: Limited without the advanced, testing the police had no physical,
27:37
Speaker 2: evidence at least not. Yet but they were building a
27:41
Speaker 2: case Against Robbie, tubbs and they Had Sandra tubbs is
27:44
Speaker 2: their main. Witness but no jury would ever hear From
27:48
Speaker 2: Sandra tubbs because On may, fourth nineteen ninety, three exactly
27:52
Speaker 2: two years After Christina pipkin, Vanished Sandra tubbs was brutally.
27:57
Speaker 2: Murdered the circumstances around the murder Of Sandra tubbs are,
28:11
Speaker 2: bizarre to say the, least and they are. Controversial some
28:15
Speaker 2: people to this day believe That Robbie tubbs had something
28:19
Speaker 2: to do with. It they just think that timing is too.
28:21
Speaker 2: Coincidental they wonder if he somehow masterminded the. Murder it
28:26
Speaker 2: just seemed very strange that exactly two years After Christina pipkin's,
28:30
Speaker 2: death That sandra would be found. Dead On may, fourth
28:34
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, Three Sandra tubbs was alone at home In, Moro.
28:39
Speaker 2: Arkansas the school bus had come between five and seven
28:43
Speaker 2: am that. Morning all Of sandra's children were already at.
28:47
Speaker 2: School only her youngest, son who was sleeping on the
28:50
Speaker 2: living room floor in front of THE, tv was home with.
28:52
Speaker 2: Her sandra was doing some home. Decorating she had a
28:56
Speaker 2: can of paint varnish open with a brush lying on
28:59
Speaker 2: top of, it like she was in the middle of.
29:00
Speaker 2: Painting robbie later told police that he woke up that,
29:05
Speaker 2: morning he And sandra made some. Coffee they had a
29:07
Speaker 2: totally normal conversation about what they were going to do that.
29:09
Speaker 2: Day then he said he left the house by seven point.
29:13
Speaker 2: Fifteen his, plan he, said was to go out and
29:16
Speaker 2: pull in some, turtlenets get out on the water for
29:18
Speaker 2: a little, bit then to head to the store in
29:21
Speaker 2: town In. Morrow After robbie left the, house sometime after seven,
29:26
Speaker 2: am two local teenagers Named Jerry Lee ray And Stephen
29:31
Speaker 2: Chad kapliner came to the. Door now these teens were
29:35
Speaker 2: apparently acquaintances Of robbie And sandra's, kids and rode the
29:38
Speaker 2: bus with. Them the boys lived nearby and later told
29:42
Speaker 2: police they had kind of a vague plan to run
29:45
Speaker 2: away from. Home they had started the day, earlier but
29:48
Speaker 2: hadn't made it very. Far chad And jerry had camped
29:51
Speaker 2: out all night in a tent in the. Woods they
29:54
Speaker 2: were carrying an orange bag with them containing their, pup,
29:57
Speaker 2: tent a, flashlight a pair of, binoculars a maroon, jacket a,
30:01
Speaker 2: compass a knife, sheath shotgun, shells some alka, seltzer and
30:05
Speaker 2: a leather. Whip they needed, supplies and they seemed to
30:10
Speaker 2: come up with this kind of half baked plan to
30:12
Speaker 2: steal some stuff from houses.
30:17
Speaker 3: That.
30:17
Speaker 2: Morning they waited until after the school bus, left then
30:21
Speaker 2: they Approached sandra's back. Door, now according to statements the
30:26
Speaker 2: teens made to police That amy managed to get a hold,
30:28
Speaker 2: of each of the guys had fairly similar versions of what,
30:33
Speaker 2: happened except they kind of blamed each other for doing the.
30:36
Speaker 2: Shooting chad claimed he was holding the shotgun and that
30:40
Speaker 2: after they came up on the back, porch he pulled
30:43
Speaker 2: the hand and threw the gun To Jerry Lee, ray
30:46
Speaker 2: and after, that he, Said Jerry Lee ray started. Shooting
30:49
Speaker 2: he had no idea what. Happened, again, basically each one
30:52
Speaker 2: blamed the, other but looking at their police, statements in my,
30:55
Speaker 2: Opinion Jerry Lee ray's story is much more believable and
30:59
Speaker 2: has a lot more credible. Details jerry said that they
31:03
Speaker 2: went to the. Door chad had the shotgun in his. Hand,
31:06
Speaker 2: again their objective that morning was to steal some. Food
31:09
Speaker 2: they thought no one was, home but when they went
31:11
Speaker 2: up on the back, Porch sandra appeared at the. Door
31:15
Speaker 2: she probably saw they were carrying a. Shotgun she shut
31:19
Speaker 2: the door in their. Face at that, point a shot
31:22
Speaker 2: was fired through the. Door police found drops of blood
31:25
Speaker 2: inside the, home and they were able to recreate what
31:28
Speaker 2: they believe. Happened, next one of the, teens Probably, chad
31:34
Speaker 2: had the gun in his hand and fired that first.
31:36
Speaker 2: Shot it went through the door and Hit sandra and wounded,
31:39
Speaker 2: her but it wasn't. Fatal in that, moment it seemed
31:42
Speaker 2: like everyone. Panicked chad And jerry Chased sandra through the.
31:47
Speaker 2: House when police came to the, scene the rest of
31:50
Speaker 2: the house looked basically. Untouched it looked like they chased
31:54
Speaker 2: her straight through the back door and out the front.
31:56
Speaker 2: Door at that, point it seemed Like sandra completely. Panicked
32:01
Speaker 2: she left her young son sleeping on the living room.
32:03
Speaker 2: Floor she was running for her. Life she raced out
32:07
Speaker 2: that front. Door, now of, course it's impossible to know
32:10
Speaker 2: exactly what she was thinking at that, Point But i'm
32:13
Speaker 2: thinking she was probably trying to get to the neighbor's
32:16
Speaker 2: house to get some, help or to attract, attention or
32:21
Speaker 2: just her instinct is a, mother maybe she was just
32:24
Speaker 2: trying to lure that danger away from her little. Son
32:28
Speaker 2: Jerry Lee ray said in his statement that once they
32:31
Speaker 2: got to the front, Yard chad was yelling At, sandra
32:34
Speaker 2: but he couldn't understand what he was. Saying chad Shot
32:37
Speaker 2: sandra in the. Back the shotgun blast Knocked sandra to
32:40
Speaker 2: her knees and she fell. Forward her, glass which she
32:44
Speaker 2: couldn't see, without fell off during the. Struggle police later
32:48
Speaker 2: found two shotgun, holes which is the outer casing that
32:51
Speaker 2: holds the, shells at the. Scene one was on the
32:54
Speaker 2: back near the back porch, steps the other in the
32:57
Speaker 2: front yard about thirty yards from Where sandra was lying.
33:01
Speaker 2: Dead after the, Shooting jerry And chad ran to a nearby.
33:06
Speaker 2: House they stole some food out of the, cabinet stole
33:10
Speaker 2: Some easter candy and playing. Cards, also they stole a
33:13
Speaker 2: gun during that time while they were at the neighbor's.
33:17
Speaker 2: Place apparently they also took off their shoes and put
33:20
Speaker 2: on some other. Ones these guys were not criminal. Masterminds
33:24
Speaker 2: they left behind all kinds of, evidence including footprints and
33:28
Speaker 2: the actual shoes they. Wore police pretty quickly were able
33:31
Speaker 2: to bag those shoes. Up they also left their bag
33:35
Speaker 2: with all of their supplies in it at the murder.
33:38
Speaker 2: Scene they had to go back and grab. It they
33:40
Speaker 2: also tried to steal a truck that was sitting out
33:42
Speaker 2: in front of rob In sandra's, house but they couldn't
33:46
Speaker 2: even do that because the vehicle wouldn't, start so they
33:48
Speaker 2: hid in the. Woods after police showed up with, bloodhounds
33:53
Speaker 2: they quickly found the two. Teens they also found the
33:56
Speaker 2: shoes and the gun and all the other. Evidence they
34:00
Speaker 2: Captured chad And, jerry and they quickly. Confessed there are
34:06
Speaker 2: a lot of tragic things About Sandra tubbs's, murder but
34:09
Speaker 2: one of the, worst in my, opinion was that the
34:11
Speaker 2: whole murder was literally for. Nothing they Killed, sandra five,
34:16
Speaker 2: children don't have a, Mother jerry And chad went to
34:20
Speaker 2: jail for their entire young, lives and for. Nothing all
34:25
Speaker 2: they got was some easter. Candy probably because of, that
34:29
Speaker 2: the rumor mill. Started there must have been more to.
34:32
Speaker 2: It could the kids have been put up to that
34:34
Speaker 2: robbery by someone, else Maybe robbie, senior or by someone,
34:37
Speaker 2: younger maybe someone in the, family someone they, knew someone
34:41
Speaker 2: else who rode the bus with those. Kids, Again i'm
34:44
Speaker 2: not accusing anyone of. Anything i'm just trying to understand
34:47
Speaker 2: the family connections and how this all fits, together because
34:51
Speaker 2: on the, Surface amy pointed out that it does seem
34:55
Speaker 2: Like robbie And sander's house would be kind of a
34:57
Speaker 2: weird one to target if you wanted to steal. Anything
35:00
Speaker 2: robbie was a turtle. Hunter it's not like he had
35:02
Speaker 2: anything of any real value in.
35:04
Speaker 3: There why they thought that a house OF i don't
35:10
Speaker 3: know how many KIDS i had at the, time five or,
35:11
Speaker 3: six with the man who made his living off of
35:16
Speaker 3: shell diving and turtle, TURTLING i guess would be the
35:20
Speaker 3: house to ROB i don't. Know AND i feel like
35:26
Speaker 3: IF i would have been a sixteen year old kid
35:27
Speaker 3: looking at you, know Because arkansas was trying kids at
35:33
Speaker 3: that time for as adults and you, know seeking the
35:36
Speaker 3: nest salty FOR i feel like they would have sang
35:40
Speaker 3: like a canary if they had anything on. HIM i
35:45
Speaker 3: just don't feel like they were like harden thugs that were,
35:48
Speaker 3: gonna you, know go away for. Him but, no her family,
35:55
Speaker 3: says her family for a long time just swore he was,
35:58
Speaker 3: involved and so they didn't have much to do With,
36:01
Speaker 3: robbie My robbie growing, up or any of the, kids
36:06
Speaker 3: because you, know they all thought as daddy killed his
36:09
Speaker 3: mom or had something to do with. It it's been
36:13
Speaker 3: so hard for your. Husband, yeah he's had a real tough.
36:17
Speaker 2: Life Robbie tubbs gave a statement to police and he
36:23
Speaker 2: was completely cleared of any involvement in the. SHOOTING i
36:26
Speaker 2: did read his, statement AND i did find just a
36:28
Speaker 2: couple of THINGS i wanted to flag up BECAUSE i
36:31
Speaker 2: thought they were a little bit, inconsistent mostly related to.
36:34
Speaker 2: Timing robbie said in his statement to police that he
36:38
Speaker 2: left the house at around seven. Fifteen he said he
36:41
Speaker 2: went straight to a nearby body of, water out on
36:44
Speaker 2: the water for around thirty five minutes or. So then
36:46
Speaker 2: he pulled his nets in and saw a neighbor of
36:49
Speaker 2: his he knew Named. Danny robbie said, quote he was
36:54
Speaker 2: fixing to go out and get some trout, lines AND
36:56
Speaker 2: i asked him what time it was SO i would
36:58
Speaker 2: know if he was going to be free to show
36:59
Speaker 2: me some places to put my nets. Out he said
37:02
Speaker 2: it's eight thirty as he was walking. OFF i have
37:05
Speaker 2: a bad habit of asking people what time it. Is end.
37:07
Speaker 2: Quote this is a little bit of a weird, comment
37:11
Speaker 2: but then, AGAIN i don't. Know it might have made
37:13
Speaker 2: sense in that. Context remember this was back in the early.
37:16
Speaker 2: Nineties this is a time before cell. Phones people did
37:20
Speaker 2: ask other people if they noticed that person was wearing
37:22
Speaker 2: watches what time it. Was it was a. Thing we
37:25
Speaker 2: always have to be open minded and consider every. Possibility
37:29
Speaker 2: but if that timeline's, correct that puts us at around
37:33
Speaker 2: eight thirty or eight thirty, Five robbie. Said after that,
37:37
Speaker 2: conversation he left his Friend. Danny he went back to
37:40
Speaker 2: his house and was messing around with the turtlenets when
37:43
Speaker 2: he noticed that the dogs were freaking out and. Barking
37:46
Speaker 2: he went to the house through the back. Door he
37:47
Speaker 2: saw the paint, Can he saw his son sleeping on the.
37:50
Speaker 2: Floor then he, said he went out the front he
37:53
Speaker 2: was looking For. Sandra that's when he Saw sandra lying.
37:57
Speaker 3: There he.
37:58
Speaker 2: Said he turned her over just enough to realize there
38:00
Speaker 2: was a hole in her. Chest then he went back
38:03
Speaker 2: in the, house saw that his son was, there checked on,
38:05
Speaker 2: him and then ran to the. Neighbors robbie said after
38:10
Speaker 2: that he went To danny's, house Saw danny's, wife and
38:13
Speaker 2: That danny's wife called nine one. One, Then robbie said
38:17
Speaker 2: he went back home and by the time he got,
38:19
Speaker 2: There danny was arriving there. Too they both went out
38:22
Speaker 2: and looked At sandra's. Body, Remember robbie had said he
38:27
Speaker 2: made a point of asking his friend what time it
38:29
Speaker 2: was right after he left his house and went down
38:31
Speaker 2: to deal with The. Turtlenets he said That danny had
38:34
Speaker 2: said it was eight thirty and that supposedly happened before
38:37
Speaker 2: he went back to the house and Found sandra's. Body
38:41
Speaker 2: danny's story to police was. Similar he told, police, yes
38:44
Speaker 2: he had Seen robbie that, morning but he said the
38:47
Speaker 2: conversation about time happened after all. This, so after they
38:52
Speaker 2: had their initial, Conversation robbie left to go. Home danny
38:56
Speaker 2: got home and found out that his wife had called
38:58
Speaker 2: nine one. One he rushes over To robbie And sandra's
39:02
Speaker 2: house finds the. Body after all, that he said they
39:05
Speaker 2: had a conversation about, time and at that time he
39:07
Speaker 2: said it was eight thirty. Five, again we don't have a.
39:10
Speaker 2: Recording this could have been a misunderstanding by a police.
39:13
Speaker 2: OFFICER i don't, know but Obviously i'm super sensitive to
39:17
Speaker 2: anything involving the timeline and police also talked to someone,
39:22
Speaker 2: else the stepfather of one of the murder. Suspects now
39:26
Speaker 2: their family lived, nearby and the stepfather said he heard
39:29
Speaker 2: a single shot, earlier at around seven thirty. Am of,
39:33
Speaker 2: course the part of my brain that's always thinking about
39:35
Speaker 2: albis and how people try to build alibis to fill
39:38
Speaker 2: in timeline to their. Advantage i'm thinking if the shooting
39:41
Speaker 2: started closer to the time the bus left that, morning
39:47
Speaker 2: that could explain Why robbie might have wanted to make
39:49
Speaker 2: it seem like he was definitely out of the house
39:52
Speaker 2: and had been out of the house for a while
39:53
Speaker 2: when that went. Down either, way, though the timeline does
39:57
Speaker 2: seem to check out without minor. Inconsistency he left home
40:01
Speaker 2: according to, him and according to the, suspects he was
40:04
Speaker 2: gone by the time they got. There it's also a
40:06
Speaker 2: little weird to me that When robbie went back to
40:09
Speaker 2: the house and saw his wife lying there with a
40:11
Speaker 2: hole in her, chest he checked to see if his
40:13
Speaker 2: son was. There saw him, sleeping and then left his
40:15
Speaker 2: son behind to go to the neighbor's, house because how
40:18
Speaker 2: would he know that the killer wasn't still, there, which
40:21
Speaker 2: as it turned, out they were they were hanging out
40:24
Speaker 2: in those woods. Still but also that could have just been.
40:27
Speaker 2: Shocked robbie said he And sandra had not had any
40:31
Speaker 2: problems in their. Marriage they had been getting along great
40:33
Speaker 2: for the last year or. So they had had a
40:35
Speaker 2: super happy. Marriage, now they did go through good, times
40:39
Speaker 2: And i'm sure they were happy at, times but this
40:42
Speaker 2: does also tredict what we heard About robbie, earlier that
40:47
Speaker 2: he had abused his wife in the. End, Though amy
40:50
Speaker 2: pointed out something That i've, considered which is that these
40:54
Speaker 2: teens were not trained, assassins and they were really scared
40:57
Speaker 2: when they talked to. Police so if someone else had
41:01
Speaker 2: influenced them to do this, killing it seems like they
41:04
Speaker 2: would have had no hesitation in turning On Robbie tubbs
41:07
Speaker 2: if he in fact masterminded this, shooting but they. DIDN'T
41:11
Speaker 2: i do want to talk to these, guys, though because
41:14
Speaker 2: On Chad kaplaner's, statement the officer who interviewed him did
41:18
Speaker 2: not record the. Conversation, instead he just typed up and
41:22
Speaker 2: paraphrased What chad had. Said he noted That chad was
41:26
Speaker 2: handcuffed and unable to sign the consent, form saying he
41:28
Speaker 2: was aware of his. Rights this to me IS i
41:33
Speaker 2: don't want to say, shady but not good. Practice and
41:35
Speaker 2: it happened in way too many cases back in the.
41:37
Speaker 2: Day we have no idea how long the interview went,
41:40
Speaker 2: on if they offered him a. Break what the officer
41:43
Speaker 2: said to these young, men that's a big problem for.
41:45
Speaker 2: Me in the, End Jerry Lee ray was sentenced to
41:48
Speaker 2: twenty years in, Prison Chad kaplaner got sixteen. Years after
41:53
Speaker 2: serving their, time they were released and as far AS i,
41:57
Speaker 2: know they are free men. Today, meanwhile The Christina pipkin
42:01
Speaker 2: case went, cold especially After sanders. Murder police Suspected Robbie,
42:06
Speaker 2: tubbs but there was no physical evidence against. Him but
42:10
Speaker 2: by nineteen ninety nine technology for testing physical evidence had advanced.
42:15
Speaker 2: Considerably police still had that hair From robbie's former car
42:19
Speaker 2: THAN Amc. Eagle they sent it for further forensic testing
42:24
Speaker 2: and they announced they had a match that the hair
42:27
Speaker 2: that was found Inside Robbie tubb's abandoned car was a
42:31
Speaker 2: match To Christina. Pipkin in nineteen ninety, Nine Robbie Dale
42:40
Speaker 2: tubbs was arrested in charge With Christina pipkins. Murder prosecutors
42:45
Speaker 2: said they were seeking the death. Penalty the trial started
42:49
Speaker 2: out in a pretty shocking, manner and it just turned
42:52
Speaker 2: into one shocking twist after. Another, first the judge ruled
42:57
Speaker 2: That sandra's statement she had made to police About robbie
43:01
Speaker 2: allegedly making statements to her about what happened To Christina.
43:03
Speaker 2: Pipkin the judge ruled that those were, inadmissible and Obviously
43:08
Speaker 2: sandra was, dead so even, posthumously the jury would never
43:13
Speaker 2: hear From Sandra. Tubbs the, Prosecutor Fletcher long, said, Quote,
43:18
Speaker 2: man we'd be walking and talking if she was alive.
43:20
Speaker 2: Today if we had, that we'd knock those jurors. Dead
43:23
Speaker 2: but there's no sense crying over spilt milt end. Quote
43:27
Speaker 2: just a little side. Note i've noticed that a lot
43:29
Speaker 2: of these colloquial, prosecutors especially In, arkansas have some very colorful.
43:34
Speaker 2: Comments BUT i don't know IF i agree with his,
43:37
Speaker 2: comment because there were some problems With sandra's STATEMENT i
43:41
Speaker 2: found out WHEN i was Investigating Rebecca gould's, case and many. Others,
43:45
Speaker 2: unfortunately there are a lot of women whose husbands are
43:47
Speaker 2: abusive and, violent a lot of women who suspect that
43:51
Speaker 2: their partner might have been responsible for a. Murder it's
43:56
Speaker 2: actually shocking how many violent people are out, there and
43:59
Speaker 2: how many, people men and, women are victims of intimate partner.
44:03
Speaker 2: VIOLENCE i would be wary of the, statement not BECAUSE
44:07
Speaker 2: i don't believe. IT i believe That sandra did hear
44:09
Speaker 2: him say, that AND i believe she did tell her friend,
44:12
Speaker 2: That BUT i would be wary of the statement because
44:15
Speaker 2: without seeing exactly what he told her and what the context,
44:19
Speaker 2: was there's nothing specific to the crime in that. Statement
44:22
Speaker 2: just saying That christina was drowned in a rice stitch
44:26
Speaker 2: is not, enough in my, opinion to charge someone with capital. Murder,
44:30
Speaker 2: now the fact That robbie Tied sandra up and threatened
44:35
Speaker 2: her would seem to make this much more compelling and potentially.
44:38
Speaker 2: Dangerous but, again we need to know more about what
44:42
Speaker 2: the actual conversation was Between robbie And. Sander we need
44:45
Speaker 2: to know what she told the. Police Sandra tubbs case
44:48
Speaker 2: file now should be open because the murder was. Prosecuted
44:53
Speaker 2: i've Done foyer request for it AND i will keep you.
44:55
Speaker 2: Posted but even Without Sandra tubbs's, statement the, Prosecutor Fletcher
45:00
Speaker 2: long felt pretty confident because he had this forensic. Evidence
45:03
Speaker 2: he had the hair From robbie's former vehicle that was
45:06
Speaker 2: a match To Christina pipkins's, hair which brings me to
45:09
Speaker 2: the next shocking. Twist Robbie tubb's family got him an,
45:14
Speaker 2: attorney and according To, amy they got him an expensive.
45:18
Speaker 2: Attorney they took out a second mortgage so that they
45:21
Speaker 2: could pay for the defense Attorney Martin, lilly And Martin
45:25
Speaker 2: lilly had questions about that forensic. Testing what he said
45:28
Speaker 2: in court was he believed there had been a mix
45:30
Speaker 2: up at the. Lab he believed that the scientist had
45:34
Speaker 2: accidentally compared two samples that were taken From christina's body
45:38
Speaker 2: to each other and not to the hair found in the.
45:42
Speaker 2: Car Martin lily put THE fbi Investigator John, hazen who
45:48
Speaker 2: was in charge of shipping the evidence from The arkansas
45:50
Speaker 2: Crime lab to THE fbi lab In, quantico on the,
45:53
Speaker 2: stand and to cut a long story, short it's pretty,
45:57
Speaker 2: technical but it appears there was a difference in labeling
46:00
Speaker 2: between the state crime lab and THE fbi lab and
46:03
Speaker 2: that's where the problem. Began THE fbi lab In quantico
46:07
Speaker 2: labeled the hair differently than The Arkansas state Crime. Lab
46:11
Speaker 2: John hazen admitted that there might have been a. MISTAKE
46:17
Speaker 2: i have such a hard time believing that's even. Possible
46:20
Speaker 2: how could you compare two identical hairs to each other
46:23
Speaker 2: and not realize they came from the same. Person even back,
46:26
Speaker 2: Then Fletcher long said that there might be a difference in,
46:32
Speaker 2: labeling but that it was not a fundamental. Mistake Martin lily.
46:35
Speaker 2: Disagreed he insisted the two hairs that were sent to
46:39
Speaker 2: the crime lab were not one From Robbie tubb's car
46:42
Speaker 2: and one from Christ Sina pipkins's. Body he said they
46:46
Speaker 2: accidentally sent two samples From christina's, body which of course
46:50
Speaker 2: were a match because they came off the same. Person
46:53
Speaker 2: lily said in, court, quote it'll blow this case wide,
46:58
Speaker 2: open end. Quote and it. Did it all boiled down
47:02
Speaker 2: to that. Hair that strand of hair was going to
47:05
Speaker 2: decide the entire. Case in the, End Fletcher long admitted
47:09
Speaker 2: there had been a fundamental mistake made and that the
47:12
Speaker 2: two hairs taken From Christina pipkins's body were compared with
47:15
Speaker 2: each other and not with the hair From Robbie tubbs's.
47:18
Speaker 2: Car so what happened to the hair From Robbie tubbs's, Car,
47:22
Speaker 2: well it had not been. Tested it was still sealed
47:25
Speaker 2: sitting in an evidence bag at the crime. Lab this
47:30
Speaker 2: was a shock in the. Courtroom the judge ordered to
47:33
Speaker 2: pause in the, case and the judge Gave Fletcher long
47:36
Speaker 2: and the prosecutors two months to get the testing done
47:39
Speaker 2: on the correct. Hair but when they sent the hair
47:43
Speaker 2: that had been found In robbie's car to THE fbi crime,
47:46
Speaker 2: lab THE fbi came back with bad. News they said
47:49
Speaker 2: there just was not enough genetic material on it to
47:51
Speaker 2: do the, testing so the prosecutors had. Nothing Robbie tubbs
47:56
Speaker 2: was set. Free this case was no lely, prossed meaning
48:01
Speaker 2: that they dropped the charges Against Robbie tubbs because of insufficient.
48:04
Speaker 2: Evidence but at least according to my, understanding if new
48:09
Speaker 2: evidence ever came to, light he could be.
48:11
Speaker 4: RETRIED i Think arkansas in general is a very and
48:16
Speaker 4: maybe the Entire United states is very.
48:18
Speaker 3: Corrupt i'm thankful That i've never been.
48:22
Speaker 4: Arrested and That i'm not a poor, person BUT i,
48:27
Speaker 4: MEAN i COULDN'T i couldn't afford a high dollar defense.
48:31
Speaker 4: Attorney the only reason he was. ABLE i firmly believe
48:35
Speaker 4: the only reason he's not on death row right now
48:38
Speaker 4: is because his mom and dad put a second mortgage
48:42
Speaker 4: on their home and that, lawyer because he was dirt
48:46
Speaker 4: for you, know average maybe below, average white. GUY i
48:51
Speaker 4: think they would have real roaded him and never even
48:54
Speaker 4: seen it.
48:54
Speaker 2: Coming after all, That Robbie tubbs eventually left the. Area
49:01
Speaker 2: he ended up In, missouri and in twenty thirteen he
49:05
Speaker 2: made headlines. Again The Tulsa world reported he was part
49:08
Speaker 2: of a crime ring that was illegally trafficking paddlefish. Eggs
49:12
Speaker 2: The Tulsa world reported That robbie seemed surprised when he
49:16
Speaker 2: got charged with this federal crime Because robbie apparently thought
49:19
Speaker 2: he would just get a. Ticket according to THE Us
49:22
Speaker 2: Attorney's office In, Tulsa robbie pleaded. Guilty he was sentenced
49:26
Speaker 2: to six months in, prison and after that he was.
49:28
Speaker 2: Released amy AND i have both filed multiple freedom of information,
49:32
Speaker 2: requests but it's becoming clear that a lot of the
49:36
Speaker 2: answers to this case are In. Arkansas we need to
49:39
Speaker 2: answer several. Questions first of, all we need to know
49:42
Speaker 2: exactly How Christina pipkin would have had to walk to
49:45
Speaker 2: get to that, ditch and was it plausible for her
49:49
Speaker 2: to walk that distance on her. Own in addition to
49:51
Speaker 2: figuring out her exact, route we need to talk to
49:54
Speaker 2: people who were in the neighborhood at the. Time we're
49:57
Speaker 2: going to investigate a couple of other people of interest
49:59
Speaker 2: who were questioned but apparently never. CHARGED i would also
50:04
Speaker 2: really like to talk To Robbie. TUBBS i have no
50:07
Speaker 2: idea if he'll talk to. Me amy tells me he
50:09
Speaker 2: lives out in the middle of. NOWHERE i Guess i'm
50:12
Speaker 2: going to find. Out this case terrified me and kept
50:15
Speaker 2: me up at night for a couple of. Reasons first of,
50:18
Speaker 2: all it's horrifying that someone could be almost sentenced to
50:22
Speaker 2: death based on such a little, evidence evidence, that as
50:25
Speaker 2: it turns, out wasn't even. Real it was literally one huge, mistake,
50:30
Speaker 2: and As amy pointed, out one that probably never would
50:34
Speaker 2: have been discovered if the defendant had not been able
50:36
Speaker 2: to afford a pricey. Lawyer so how many other cases
50:40
Speaker 2: out there have potentially the wrong people behind bars based
50:44
Speaker 2: on such catastrophic? Errors and, also in these cases where
50:49
Speaker 2: no one is ever successfully prosecuted or where the wrong
50:52
Speaker 2: person is potentially in. Prison how many other killers are
50:56
Speaker 2: out there walking. Free we're going to try to dive
50:59
Speaker 2: into the other mysterious Deaths Guardina Cross jones And Geneva.
51:03
Speaker 2: Smith we're going to try to see if we can
51:06
Speaker 2: get any answers about what happened to those children and
51:09
Speaker 2: to see if there is a child killer still out
51:11
Speaker 2: there Stalking East. Arkansas so once, Again i'm on my
51:17
Speaker 2: way To. Arkansas I'm Catherine. Townsend this Is Helen Gone Murder.
51:23
Speaker 2: Line Helen Gone Murder line is a production Of school
51:30
Speaker 2: Of humans And iHeart. Podcasts it's written and narrated by
51:33
Speaker 2: Me Catherine townsend and produced By Gabby. Watts music contributed
51:37
Speaker 2: By Ben, Sale executive producers Of Virginia, Prescott Brandon, barr
51:41
Speaker 2: And Elsie. Crowley if you have a case you'd like
51:44
Speaker 2: me and my team to look, into you can reach
51:46
Speaker 2: out to us at Our Helen Gone Murder line at
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