Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Matthew Penfound

Transcript

Matthew Penfound · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

0:18
You. Welcome to the Black Sheet Podcast. This is this is weird,
0:34
Mason. I don't usually introduce people, but I need to introduce people this
0:37
time. This is this is fun. Switch it up on the folks.
0:39
Yeah, yeah, we're switching it up. We keep things fresh. Today
0:43
we have a guest that is very, very important in the music industry.
0:51
But it's like one of those guests that like oftentimes you're you're like, oh
0:56
yeah, I forgot that that was even a thing sometimes, but that's typically
0:59
becau as they do their job that well. This is Matthew Penn found.
1:03
He is a lighting expert, runs lighting at big shows. And I'm not
1:08
talking just like you know, your little po dunk hometown hardcore show. I'm
1:15
talking like Billie Eilish type stuff. So Matthew's got a lot of other irons
1:19
in the fire. But Matthew welcome, Thank you guys. Happy to be
1:25
here, still to be on the pod. How are we all doing.
1:29
We're doing well, We're doing well. It's a it's it's wonderful to have
1:34
you. There's so many like routes we could go with this episode, and
1:38
I'm I'm just kind of curious to see where's gonna go because I don't know
1:42
if Mason and I know a whole lot about lighting or like what goes into
1:46
that or like the touring schedule of that or anything. So would you mind
1:49
like just starting off and like telling us some of the artists that you've worked
1:53
with, like you know, big name acts, maybe some like like middle
1:56
tier acts, maybe some weird ones that like people one think that you would
2:00
work with. Yeah, So my first branch into lighting was actually Three Doors
2:08
Down. I had been doing lighting for some like small corporate events and a
2:15
friend called me and was like, do you want to do three Doors Down?
2:16
And I was like six. So that's kind of where it started for
2:21
me. And then what an introduction to a job, right, Like it's
2:24
like, oh yeah, my first football game was the Super Bowl, right,
2:29
I know, it was kind of weird. I mean, honestly,
2:30
Kryptonite kind of got old after like Night fifty on the Road you're kind of
2:35
like, man, what a classic? But Night one, well, I
2:42
don't know. I think for those first two weeks it's kind of like a
2:45
meme. You know, you can really enjoy it, and then after that
2:49
you're kind of like, all right, the affinity, the excitement about this
2:53
is just kind of losing its touch a little bit. So yeah, but
2:59
yeah, Three Doors Down was kind of my first branch into that, and
3:02
then from there kind of got on with switch Foot for a couple of years
3:08
and got to tour the US and Europe with them, and then left that
3:15
to do Billie Eilish for a tour, and then kind of settled into the
3:23
country world and CCM world for a good bit, just because the touring schedules
3:28
in that realm are much more kind to the people who are working, so
3:34
so yeah, I here they make a ton more money. Yeah, you
3:38
get your rates in country music is just kind of off the wall. I
3:42
mean, Billie Eilish can pay a lot, but also she goes super hard,
3:46
so yeah, country music it's like you can be in a theater with
3:50
like you know, like a room that under Oath would play or bring me
3:54
the Horizon, and you're getting paid you know, probably you know, twice
4:00
the amount of money that you would on a tour like that, which is
4:03
pretty nuts, just because do you know why that's the case that that just
4:08
seems like so outrageous. But I've heard this over and over again that that
4:12
artists just have like an insane budget. Yeah, I think it's a demographic
4:17
thing. When you look at the typical country artist listener, it's probably someone
4:24
middle aged, white in the suburbs, you know, has a steady job
4:30
in the suburbs and can spend you know, fifty two one hundred dollars to
4:34
go see a band in a theater. Whereas when you look at you know,
4:39
the hardcore demographic, it's not like people aren't successful in what they do.
4:44
We're like people aren't talented. It's just the demographic in general. There's
4:48
a reason why punk and hardcore people usually complain about capitalism, right right,
4:54
exactly exactly, So I think that's that says it all right. So but
5:00
yeah, I think as someone who need you know, if you're doing it
5:05
for a living and you're trying to make money, country is like the easiest
5:10
thing to do. And I'm sure you've got you guys have talked to plenty
5:12
of people who maybe were in hardcore bands or grew up in the hardcore scene
5:16
that are maybe backline texts for country artists or you know, CCM artists now
5:24
just because that's where the money is, you know, you know, I
5:28
had I had this theory. I still have it. I think it'd be
5:30
really fun to do, but I think it'd be just like a killer job
5:35
two. Go out there and make like a best selling country record. M
5:43
like get my name out there, like you know, rhtt Cullen out there
5:48
on tour and I'm just like selling out arenas all that all that fun stuff.
5:54
And here's like and then like the third record in after I've like made
5:58
all this dough, all of a sudden, I come off the hardcore album
6:01
and like I'm just hardcore from there on out, and I just come out
6:03
on stage. I'm like, you guys are all the dumbest motherfuckers ever you
6:10
sh I was literally making this stuff up. Yeah, it's because country artists
6:16
have such a big budget. Their backing bands are usually some of the most
6:20
talented players I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, and a lot of
6:24
them like when they're when they're home, whether that be Nashville or like La,
6:30
they have their passion project, you know, and so the bands they
6:32
were like really in and invested in that are like their own stuff is like
6:36
always like just the dopest, like most insane shit I've ever heard. And
6:41
then they were going out and playing like song about like how someone's dog died
6:45
or you know, something like that. So it's just it's just funny.
6:49
I mean, I remember a Little Big Town they're they're guitarist. His his
6:57
dad was the keyboard player in Well for Phil Collins. So this guy,
7:05
like, you know, had a pedigree of like, you know, incredible
7:10
musicians in his family, and he could play anything, you know, he
7:13
really could, and he was he was there playing pontoon by Little Big Town.
7:21
Just like, dude, your dad's like like an idol to me,
7:26
you know what I mean, Like, like I love Phil Collins, and
7:29
so I'm like, your dad plays in Phil call like for Phil Collins,
7:32
and you're doing this, you know. But you know, he has a
7:36
nice house in Brentwood and he's doing well for himself. So I don't blame
7:41
him, Yeah, for sure. So Matthew, when I go to a
7:46
hardcore show, let's say Norman Jean for example, Right, I don't know
7:50
if you're a Norman Jeen fan or not. Oh yeah, yeah. Let's
7:53
say we go to Norman Jean and you know, there's usually some sort of
7:58
lighting at some little club venue going on. That's not somebody that they're paying
8:03
to be there, right. I've always kind of wondered that because oftentimes it
8:07
seems like it's just somebody who maybe works at that small venue that is doing
8:11
lighting. Am I correct in that assumption? Well, so there's a there's
8:16
a an easy indicator on a club tour whether or not they have a lighting
8:20
guy or are using a house LD is if they if there's like a floor
8:24
package. So if there are lights behind the band that appear to not be
8:31
part of the venue, then they brought their own lighting guy. But I
8:37
haven't seen Norma Jean in a while, but I would assume it's a house
8:41
lighting director. They're just punting a show for them while they're playing. That
8:46
would make sense. So going along, going along those same lines, then
8:50
are they like a lot of these club shows and stuff like that? Are
8:54
they mainly is there like a like an AI system that is kind of set
8:58
up now that you know you kind of like plug in a song or something
9:03
like that and it just automatically knows somewhat what to do. I mean,
9:07
you kind of know, like not an efficient way to do that. You
9:13
you see that with like DJs, you know they'll bring their own lighting package.
9:20
And it's kind of like you're inputting audio and there's like kind of a
9:24
primitive program that tries to make the lights do things to that audio. And
9:28
the surprising thing is is like in the visual world, as far as like
9:31
video stuff, there's this thing called Touch Designer, which is incredibly like ahead
9:39
of its time, which you can program to do like four k HD renderings
9:46
on the fly as you input music. And it's beautiful and it's super cool,
9:50
but it takes like a very skilled programmer to write it to do that,
9:56
you know, But in lighting we don't really have that. We can
10:01
time code shows, so we can take what a band has and program it
10:09
and then put timecode into the program and it automatically triggers itself and stuff,
10:15
but that still requires someone completely programming that show out before you know it's ever
10:22
played. So if that makes sense, I don't know. Yeah. No.
10:26
We were at a big festival recently, Furnace Fest, and I was
10:31
like, we were standing right next to the lights because we were backstage,
10:33
and I noticed like this little red blinking dot and it kept changing to the
10:39
beat of the song, and I was wondering if that had something, if
10:43
that was like connected in some way. Was that on a light? Yeah,
10:48
it was on the light like it was like a little tiny little red
10:50
dot. It was like an indicator light, and it was like the light
10:54
or the indicator was changing based off of the beat of the song. Yeah,
11:00
I mean I think it was it on that was Wasn't it like the
11:01
kick drum that it was sort of following or something. Yeah, it seemed
11:05
like it was falling the kick drum. It was. It was on the
11:07
main stage, it was kind of it was back behind, so it was
11:11
like it was like ambient lighting in the back. Okay, that's interesting.
11:15
I think I've I've never heard of anything like that other than like very like
11:20
like I said, like primitive stuff like what they call they call like Chave
11:26
DJ line, which is a brand, But it wouldn't it wouldn't have an
11:31
indicator light on it. So I'm wondering if you saw a light, not
11:35
not to question you or like question you little drunk so you can question it,
11:41
I'm wondering if you saw a light on stage and as as the kick
11:48
drum was being hit, maybe your perspective of that light was shifting. That
11:52
certainly could blinking, But that's the only thing I can come up with.
11:56
So okay, I trust you. You know, you get enough substances in
12:00
Cullen, and you know all of his perception of everything not just lights change
12:03
everything out of the window. There is that Yeah, I mean me too.
12:07
Honestly, I'm just here to have a good time, you know,
12:09
kind of along the hardcore stage lighting lines. One of my favorite stage lighting
12:18
experiences I've ever had was I was at a show from a band called sixty
12:22
eight and they were I think supporting maybe like August Burn's Red or something like.
12:28
They were supporting a big metal corporated and I still remember maybe the first
12:35
song the it was probably like a club stage person stage lighting person, and
12:43
you know they're trying to do a thing that's matching up with the music or
12:46
whatever. And after that first song, Josh Schoggin from sixty eight goes,
12:52
hey, who's ever doing the stage lighting thing? Just turn the house lights
12:56
on? That that's all we want, Like we don't, and I was
12:58
just rem We're thinking, you know, if I was the guy getting paid
13:03
to be there to do stage lighting, and now you could just go take
13:07
a smoke break if you want, Like, that's what a great opportunity,
13:11
And I was always thinking, Neil, for these hardcore bands, that should
13:13
be just the way you do that. You know, give a guy,
13:16
you know, he's already paid to be there, so you know, give
13:20
him, give him a little break, and how about that that's a that's
13:22
a nice little treat for you. Yeah, I think I think that could
13:26
go one of two ways, the way you just explained, or the person
13:30
could be super offended and think that their job was inadequate and the dude needed
13:37
to get off the board, you know. But no, I mean personally
13:41
for me, I would just be like, now I just get to watch
13:43
sixty eight and don't even worry about the show. What a treat, you
13:46
know. Yeah, So let's talk about some of these big stage productions that
13:50
you've been a part of. You mentioned Billie Eilish, You've mentioned Three Days
13:56
Grace or three Doors Down, sorry, three Doors down there we go,
13:58
three Down switch Foot. To even get involved in all of that, I
14:05
don't you know where to go? But also like, what does it look
14:07
like on a day to day basis for you to be touring with these bands
14:11
and then you show up to a city and all of a sudden boom you've
14:16
got this great stage production. I'm just curious what does that look like for
14:20
each one of these really big acts that you're working with. Yeah, so
14:26
it kind of depends. I mean, the largest tour I've done as a
14:31
headliner was an Arenas, And on a tour like that, you're usually getting
14:37
up at around like seven am, you're getting off the bus, you're in
14:43
the venue ready to load in by like eight am, nine am at the
14:46
latest. You've got a crew of close to I don't know, like for
14:54
everything that's going on with that show, you probably have a crew close to
14:58
like forty to fifty people. So you've got five to eight tour buses,
15:05
and then as far as like trailer's worth of equipment, you've got anywhere from
15:09
six to fourteen trailers worth of equipment, maybe even more, depending on how
15:16
big and big of a production it is and what size arena as you're playing
15:20
in. I remember when switch Foot we opened for bon Jovi in Europe and
15:24
they had eighty semi trucks. Switch Foot opened for bon Jovi. Yeah,
15:31
switch Foot opened for bon Jovi. Why have I not ever known? This
15:35
is amazing? This is like my world and my dad's world, colliding.
15:39
It was crazy. It was nuts. But I mean, for you know,
15:43
for perspective, they you know, they've got eight times the amount of
15:48
lighting equipment that I would have on an arena tour. You know, they're
15:52
in stadiums and that's lighting in PA and stage and stuff like that. So
15:58
not just lighting, but so usually, I mean, the day to day
16:02
is like you you know, you wake up pretty early. You start if
16:04
you have a role in actually building the set and the rig, you're starting
16:11
on that at eight or nine and usually if you have a good crew,
16:15
it takes you three hours to build it at most five. So if you
16:22
really know what you're doing, if it's really dialed in, you know,
16:25
you can get that built in five hours. So you're done by like one
16:29
or two o'clock at the latest, and then you can take like a four
16:33
hour nap if you don't have any roles during the show, to you know,
16:37
rejuvenate a little bit before the show happens. And then the show ends
16:42
around ten or eleven o'clock and it usually takes two to three hours to tear
16:48
things down, so you're you know, you're looking at one or two am
16:52
in the morning, you're taking a shower in the arena, and then you're
16:56
getting on the bus and you're sleeping maybe five hours in doing it again,
17:00
you know, maybe three days in a row. So the sleep schedule's pretty
17:04
awful. But if you're a director, so I guess, I guess I
17:11
should clarify this. In lighting design, you have a designer, you have
17:15
a programmer, and you have a director, and so some of those roles
17:21
intermingle. Like you'll have a designer that's both a designer and a programmer.
17:25
You'll have a director who's both a director and a programmer. Sometimes you'll have
17:29
people who do all three. So the designer kind of builds the renderings in
17:36
the actual design of like what where the lights go on stage, what type
17:41
of trust you're using, what type of like scenic elements are going to be
17:45
integrated with the lighting design, and then once that set you take it to
17:49
a programmer who goes, okay, I'm going to take these lights and make
17:53
them do specifically what they do during the music, you know, during the
17:59
show. And then from there you get a director to actually go out with
18:03
the show and run the lights according to how the programmer programm did to do.
18:10
So I usually am a director or a programmer. Recently, in the
18:15
past few years, I've solidified more opportunities to just design, which I like
18:22
because I am kind of passed my prime with touring and I like to be
18:26
home a bit more so. But all that to say, if you're on
18:33
a tour where you're a director and it's a big enough tour where they're not
18:36
expecting you to help set things up, you can kind of sleep intil like
18:41
one pm, two pm. Once the rigs up, you go in and
18:45
make sure all of your cues and positions look correct, and then you know,
18:49
run the show. So it can vary tour to tour, but on
18:53
an arena scale, that's kind of what it looks like. I gotta imagine
19:00
it's very difficult because none of these arenas are going to be the same,
19:03
right, Well, you're gonna have you're gonna have to figure out like where
19:07
people are gonna have to stand, and you know, like you know,
19:11
rigging has to do their job and that's like a super super dangerous thing and
19:15
it's like super important. I mean, how do you know, like how
19:19
much light is going to fill an area like this? Like this is the
19:23
kind of stuff like logistically like, I don't know if I would have like
19:27
the wherewithal to even get halfway there to understanding what's good what goes into it.
19:33
Yeah, so arena tours are actually like super I think arena tours are
19:41
easy comparatively to club tours because interesting, for the most part, arenas are
19:47
all the same. You're gonna have a different company bring in and build a
19:51
stage for you, but that stage is going to have the same exact dimensions
19:55
in every single arena, so you're doing the same, this same exact rig
20:00
every night. The only thing that usually varies is like how many truck docks
20:06
you have, how many stage hands you have helping you, and maybe the
20:11
grid up in the air looks different, so you've got to kind of adjust
20:15
where your motors are going a little bit. But when you bump down to
20:19
like large theaters and amphitheaters and clubs, those stages very drastically, so you
20:30
could go you could you could be on a stage that is like, you
20:33
know, sixty feet by thirty feet one night, and then the next night
20:37
you're expected to put this same design into a stage that's two thirds the size,
20:45
you know, like maybe forty feet by twenty feet and that, and
20:48
that's when you've really got to be kind of like as skilled and experienced director
20:55
and crew chief to kind of be like, all right, this is what
20:57
we're going to cut, This is how we're gonna get this to fit in
21:00
here, even though this show was not designed for a room this size.
21:04
And usually good designers will be aware of like what type of venues and they're
21:10
going into and how they vary, and try to come up with a design
21:12
that's like pretty intuitive and easy to build. But that doesn't always happen.
21:18
And I've been a director on tours where someone else has designed it and I've
21:22
just been like, oh my gosh, how are we supposed to build this
21:26
in here? And you got to like call the designer and be like,
21:30
look, man, like you're only getting a half rid tonight. You know,
21:32
if you see photos on Instagram and it looks funny, it's because we
21:36
literally could not build it the way that you wanted it to be built.
21:38
Today. You know, usually they're chill about it, but you know that
21:42
that reminds me of a show I saw in Sioux Falls, is that this
21:47
small club, very very intimate, small stage, but is the Flaming Lips
21:51
playing there. Now, the Flaming Lips have like a massive light show,
21:57
tons of stage props, There's lots and lots and lots of stuff going on,
22:03
and I could not imagine trying to scale down into that room and still
22:11
get like the effect that they'd gotten there. It was. It was a
22:15
magical experience. But also part of the magic was I have no idea how
22:21
they did this. Yeah, totally. I mean sometimes I don't even know
22:26
how I do it, you know, I'm honest. You get to the
22:30
end of the day and you're like, I don't know how we made that
22:32
happen, but we did. You know. It takes a bunch of sleep
22:33
deprived dudes who have been on a bus for a month to all come together
22:40
and be like, all right, I think we can do this, you
22:41
know. So yeah, but no, Flaming Lips is wild. How was
22:45
that show? Oh my gosh. Yeah. In terms of just like an
22:49
aesthetic experience, I was. I was like overstimulated, but like not,
22:56
I shouldn't say that. I was just the right amount of stimulated before I
22:59
was over stimulated where I could no longer like function in that environment. It
23:03
was. Was there a certain body part that was a little like just in
23:07
that spot of simulation. I knew that was coming, but yes it was.
23:11
It was almost like, uh like you knew it was coming, was
23:15
coming, you knew it was coming. I knew it was coming. You're
23:18
on You're on track tonight, Mason. Man, the smile was plastered on
23:22
my face from the very first note, and the smile did not go away
23:25
until I was until the show was done. It was amazing. Sounds like
23:29
a sweet spot of simulation. That's right, too much but not quite enough
23:33
at the same time. It's a it's a conundrum and enigma just riding,
23:37
just edging just you know, some people call that. Man, that's great,
23:48
Yeah, Matthew. It sounds like, you know, it seems like
23:52
stage production is like fire festival, but you're having to do it in every
23:56
single city across the US. Yeah, I mean pretty much, except you
24:00
usually you usually have management that knows what they're doing. That might be a
24:07
big difference. I mean, and you're not offering people free sandwiches, and
24:10
there's not money laundering and yeah, and you know, fake investments. Yeah.
24:17
Yeah, it's uh, it's it's wild to say the least. And
24:19
then you get to live on a bus with people the whole time too,
24:22
you know. Speaking of which, I heard there's gonna be a second fire
24:25
Festival. That guy I got out of prison and he's like, yeah,
24:26
he's out now. So Matthew, maybe you can get another job at Firefest.
24:34
That'd be great. Honestly, I'll just email him once we're done here
24:38
and offer my services for free. You know, I just want to be
24:41
a part of the next document Yeah, could you imagine yeah, being a
24:44
part of that documentary and the skimmed cut right exactly, Matthew. I'm also
24:55
really curious around you mentioned that you've you just you know, out with all
25:00
these people throughout each day, you know, and you're maybe on tour with
25:04
them for a month or so. Yeah, have you gotten to know some
25:08
of these people that we would say are like huge bands, like some of
25:12
the members in these bands, Like, have you gotten to know them in
25:15
a way where because you're stuck on a bus with them for thirty days?
25:18
I would imagine that that kind of creates a certain type of relationship with them.
25:22
Or is the is the expectation as a stage production person where you you
25:29
interact but like only as sort of colleagues type of thing, Like I'm just
25:33
really curious about what's the relationship like with people like John Foreman or you know
25:37
that the lead guy for Three Doors Down, or you know, what's your
25:41
relationship with Billie Eilish. Can you just go, hey, you know,
25:45
give your a call right now, Like is it that type of relationship or
25:48
is it she wouldn't probably only know you as the guy that set up the
25:52
stage. Yeah, I think it's kind of a case by case basis for
25:56
sure. If you are a director programmer, you probably get to have a
26:03
better relationship with artists than like a low level tech or a crew chief would
26:08
switch foot and I like we're homies. I like still talk to Tim Foreman
26:14
every now and then, nice just to like catch up with them. He
26:17
was super kind. John is such an eccentric and mystical man. I think,
26:22
you know, just like I had a hard time like having normal conversations
26:29
with them, you know what I mean, but all super lovely guys.
26:33
So on a tour like that where it's one bus and the crew is living
26:37
on the same bus as the band, you know, you get to build
26:41
a better relationship with them. You're cracking jokes at the end of the night
26:45
in the front lounge and you know, just getting to hang out on off
26:49
days together and stuff like that. In arena tours, it's kind of like
26:55
it's just hit or miss. Sometimes I'll like hit it off pretty well with
26:57
the artists and get to have more intentional conversations and whatnot, but it's just
27:03
kind of a case by case basis. So with Billie Eilish, that one's
27:08
actually and I don't share this story like in an egotistical way, but people
27:14
are always curious about it because she's, you know, one of the largest,
27:18
you know, entertainers in the world. Now you're the you're the lighting
27:22
guy. Like, no one's going to claim that you're being egotistical, so
27:25
go ahead, man. But I was. We were on tour and this
27:30
was twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen, and we had a couple
27:37
of shows in LA and you know, her and her family live in LA
27:41
and I didn't really get a ticket back home to Nashville for Thanksgiving, and
27:48
so her mom texted me while I was just kind of like hanging out for
27:53
a couple of days we head off and she was like, hey, I
27:56
heard you not like going home for Thanksgiving. We'd love to have you join
28:00
us for Thanksgiving, and I'm thinking, surely. They texted the rest of
28:04
the crew this, you know, there's gonna be like a good amount of
28:07
people there. I show up and it's literally it's me, Billy, one
28:12
of her friends, Phineas, her mom, dad, and the tour manager.
28:18
It sounds like Mom was trying to set you up with Billy. No
28:21
no, no, no, no, she was. I was. I
28:25
was what like twenty six twenty seven at the time, and Billy was seventeen.
28:29
So I don't think that's the vibe they were going for. But man,
28:33
you really do know someone really well by having Thanksgiving dinner with them.
28:37
You know, what does someone like Billie Eilish eat at Thanksgiving? Is she
28:42
a white meat or dark meat type person. Well, her whole family is
28:48
vegan, so her mom cooked this vegan Thanksgiving meal And honestly, I'm not
28:52
vegan. I'm not vegetarian. But it was the best Thanksgiving meal I've ever
28:57
had. But I don't know what it was. Maybe they'd like waste it
29:02
with something or who knows, but no, it's super good and it was
29:04
just wild. It's just one of those moments You're sitting there and You're like,
29:07
never in my childhood did I think I would be sitting at a table
29:12
with someone like this for Thanksgiving, you know, and it's it's super fun,
29:18
pretty surreal. And that's when I knew Billy. Although she's probably one
29:22
of the most influential people on Earth at the end of the day, at
29:26
that point in her life, she was a teenager. You know. She
29:29
was just like, was yellow at her to eat her Brussels sprout? Oh
29:36
yeah? Dad was not pleased. Dad was like, could you stop?
29:40
We're having Thanksgiving dinner and you know, and I'm just like, I don't
29:45
know what to do here. You know, you guys are just any normal
29:48
family, I guess. You know, so isn't a really nice thing,
29:52
right like that? You know, these people that we look up to,
29:53
that we idolize, that we almost make as if they're gods, and they're
29:57
just like the most the last people. Oh yeah, well it was kind
30:02
of terrifying to think about because I'm like, you know, I'm on tour.
30:06
I remember one part of that to where I was sitting there and Billy
30:11
was on her phone and she was on Instagram, and I was like,
30:12
gosh, this seventeen year old is just wielding like so much influence by holding
30:19
this phone, Like she could tweet anything or post anything on Instagram, and
30:23
she's going to influence more people than I ever have in my entire lifetime,
30:27
you know, in a single tweet. And I was just kind of like
30:32
it was just mind blowing. I was like, I couldn't imagine being that
30:36
age and having that like realm of influence, that level of influence in the
30:42
world. I think I think it would ruin me. It would be terrifying.
30:47
Yeah, I have time hop and I see what I tweeted when I
30:49
was seventeen, and I make sure that I delete all of those every time
30:52
they pop up. That's funny, Mace. Yeah, you're gonna get me
30:56
too. Otherwise I can't imagine being their their dad. You know, it's
31:03
like, like what authority card do you have in that situation? I mean
31:08
your daughter, Billy. Yeah, all Billy has to do is stand up
31:12
and be like, I make more money than you, I'll do what I
31:15
want. Right. It's exactly kind of crazy to think about it is.
31:22
It is great to also hear that you know they are like a normal family
31:25
and that that you know, it's it's just regular life, even though they
31:29
hold so much power and influence. It's it is nice to hear that,
31:32
you know, they're not like like spoiled in terms I'm not talking like in
31:34
terms of like money, but i mean like spoiled in terms of like their
31:38
soul. I guess, yeah, yeah, I know that. And you
31:42
know, you hear stories like Britney Spears, for instance, in her relationship
31:47
with her dad and how crazy that that situation is. And so you you
31:52
get to work for a family like Billy's, and you're like, it's really
31:56
refreshing to know, like there are people who are successful in the world who
32:00
are like normal, you know, and to the best of their ability,
32:06
try to not let it get to their head, you know, as much
32:07
as you know, a person from California could be normal, right and without
32:13
Yeah, yeah, we could go off on that for a while too.
32:16
Do you have like a like a like a like when you're designing, do
32:20
you kind of have like a like a thought process in terms of what you
32:24
want to do or is it like band by band basis? Is it song
32:29
by song basis? And also does that include like like video screens and stuff
32:35
like that? As well. Yeah, some tours, you know, you're
32:38
you're I I've never been a content designer, so the extent of me getting
32:45
involved with the video screens is usually deciding where they're going to be placed on
32:51
stage and then having someone else do the content for for the show. So
32:59
I mean, my Yeah, it's kind of a case by case basis if
33:01
you're if you're designing, like in you're not programming, then a lot of
33:07
your work is kind of dictated by budget and shopping different production houses and determining
33:15
what kind of lighting fixtures they have for you to work with in that budget,
33:20
and then going from there. You know, So a lot of that
33:22
is dictated by Okay, this is how many lighting fixtures I'm going to get
33:27
to design with. Now, let's try to come up with the best thing
33:31
I can. And some artists, you know, for a tour, they
33:36
have a specific Would this be one of your stage if you did do stage
33:45
design? Is this one of your choices? No? I can't, I
33:47
can't. This is at a festival we were recently at. Which festival is
33:53
that? This is what band? Is this again? Mason? Oh it's
34:00
for free? Yeah? Oh nice? There you go. Yeah, I
34:02
mean I probably wouldn't pick that for content on a screen. But you know,
34:07
kind of depends on the artists usually, you know, And what I
34:10
was getting ground to saying is some artists are very conceptual and what they want
34:14
to portray for a certain tour or a specific show, and you really have
34:17
to adhere to what they're trying to like do in that. So some artists
34:25
are like more hands on and what they want their stage designed to look like.
34:29
Others just don't care if you're programming though. You know, for me,
34:32
like I love programming hardcore music because that's my background, being in a
34:37
hardcore band for five years, and so when I get to work with artists
34:43
like that, it's a you know, it's a blast, and I feel
34:46
like I have a better sense of what's going on with the music with that
34:51
and can really emphasize certain certain aspects of the music. And so in a
34:57
lot of ways, you're kind of like a producer. You're sitting there,
35:00
you're listening to like what the band is creating or has created, and you're
35:05
deciding what you want to emphasize. And as you know, as a lot
35:08
of like audio engineers or producers do, that's kind of their job. They're
35:14
like, Okay, we have this song, what parts of the mix do
35:16
I want to be emphasized where? And so hardcore music is just so fun
35:22
because it's just like thrash and trash. I like strobe the shit out of
35:24
people when I'm doing a hardcore show, you know, and I'm sorry for
35:29
those who are epileptic, but I'm just having the time of my life,
35:31
you know. So yeah, it kind of depends. I've always thought,
35:37
you know, some of the best lighting like shows that I've been to have
35:42
been either at metal hardcore type shows or at post rock shows, and I've
35:46
always thought like, if I was doing that type of thing, that would
35:51
be so interesting because at least in the hardcore music that I listened to,
35:53
there's kind of these moments where you know, it's before the breakdown, so
35:57
that's when maybe you'd want to cut most of the lights, and then all
36:00
of a sudden you get the breakdown and there's this hot, you know,
36:04
big moment in that breakdown where you know the lights are on or you know,
36:07
do a certain thing that's a little different than when it's kind of in
36:10
the lull right before the breakdown, and then you have a similar type of
36:15
thing with with post rock, where you have these you know, maybe too
36:17
long, two minute long kind of low part before it gets to the crescendo
36:22
at the end of the song. And it's very similar in that way.
36:24
And I've always thought that the lighting really plays a massive importance in the experience
36:30
of that moment, you know, I'm sure it is that case for you
36:34
know, a Billie Eilish, you know, country artist type, pop artist,
36:37
but especially with when it comes to the hardcore metalcore world, and also
36:43
even the post rock world, I feel like the lighting even accentuates that moment
36:46
even more. And so anyway, I've always thought like that would be a
36:52
fun thing to do for those types of bands. Yeah, I mean I
36:57
so I grew up like a post rock nerd. I was in the first
37:00
band was a post rock band. And yeah, if you think about lighting,
37:07
it's all about dynamics and depth. So a good lighting designer is going
37:10
to be able to place lights on stage in a way that creates the most
37:15
depth of field for the viewer. That's kind of your goal, at least
37:19
my goal as a designer is I want the scape that we're in to feel,
37:23
you know, huge, front to back. Yes, So your goal,
37:29
My goal as a designer is to create the most depth of field on
37:31
the stage so that you can really emphasize those dynamics in the music, right.
37:37
And so it's I've never gotten to design a post rock band, but
37:40
I would love to, because that whole genre is based on dynamics, and
37:46
so the heavy parts hit so much more heavy, and the peaceful and like
37:52
ethereal moments of the show are are that much more too. And you go
37:59
to a show like that and you see it, right, I don't know.
38:00
I remember the first real like post rock show I ever went to with
38:06
Cigar Ros, you know, you saw them at Madison Square Garden and I
38:08
cried the whole time. I was just like, this is insane, you
38:13
know what I mean. And they do that super well. They utilize like
38:16
depth of field. They use like backdrops and screens, projection, shadows,
38:23
all those types of things to kind of emphasize that. And then you know,
38:29
in hardcore music, it it is I would argue similarly dynamic, just
38:35
in a different tone, you know. So it's like where post rock is
38:42
like a like a curved wave, you know, like just your normal like
38:45
sign like hardcore music is like saw tooth. You know, you still have
38:50
those like depths and dynamics. It's just well and that's the difference between delay
38:54
and distortion, right, and that's what's going on usually in that exactly which
39:00
is you know, is exactly that post rock compared to hardcore? Do you
39:05
have like a mount rushmore of lighting like artists that that artists that have really
39:10
really good lighting shows. I mean obviously like for me, maybe like Pink
39:14
Floyd and Maguai and I would say flaming lips and stuff like that, but
39:19
like curious what you would say, Yeah, bonie Vera has Oh my god,
39:27
yeah, bone bonie Vera has one of the best designs I've ever seen
39:30
in my life. His designers here in Nashville, and he utilizes mirrors,
39:36
and you know, he has the budget to really make these huge like grids
39:40
side of stage, just like stacks and stacks of lights in cooperation with those
39:46
mirrors to do some really cool stuff. And the and the mirrors are on
39:50
motors, so they're rotating and they're shifting as the show's going on to direct
39:55
light in different ways. So that's kind of of one of the coolest I've
40:00
seen. I would agree with you. Maguai honestly is the best band I've
40:07
ever seen in my life, and their lighting show was a reflection of that
40:10
too. I haven't seen Radiohead, but I have a hitch that a radio
40:16
Head show would kind of knock it out of the park. And like I
40:21
said, Cigar Rose really really did an incredible job as well. There's a
40:24
bunch of shows I've like seen clips on, or like friends have sent me
40:30
videos of that I wish I could have seen, But for me personally,
40:37
the ones that I've actually gotten around seeing those are those? Are it?
40:40
That's amazing, That's really cool. Matthew. Time for your top five most
40:45
influential albums. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm gonna give it the best
40:49
shot I've got so yeah, mister Beast Maguay Heck yeah, man, camp
40:57
Firehead, Phase Boards of Canada. Wow, let's see here. Long Live
41:05
What what Chariot? Yeah yeah, Chariot Long Live. Uh. That's that's
41:13
three, Matthew. So far you have probably the closest influential tastes to Mason
41:19
and I than any other guests we Overhead. Heck yeah, love love to
41:22
hear it, brother sister me without you Yeah, Well, you're not you're
41:27
not helping your cause of being really close that A thousand right now? Man,
41:30
Yeah, dude, these are all I mean, you just got to
41:31
have them. And then yeah, if we're looking at influence, I mean,
41:37
they're only chasing safety. Just kind of flipped my life upside down.
41:40
So you've got to have that on the list. Man. That's I don't
41:45
know if that's because we're the same age or what, but like, yeah,
41:47
you're back in a thousand here. Heck, yeah, it's an honor.
41:52
Yeah. You know, that's probably the least amount of time we've ever
41:55
spent on a on a top five most Influential, and that's probably the best
42:00
top five months in Yeah, I mean, I think it speaks for itself.
42:04
If you've ever listened to any of those albums, it's just kind of
42:07
it is what it is, you know. It kind of gets a little
42:10
bit of everything that I listen to, right like the post rock side of
42:14
things, you also get the really indie side of things, and then you
42:16
also get the hardcore side of things, and it's just it's a little bit
42:19
of every everything. Obviously, there's a little bit beyond that that I listened
42:22
to, but primarily it's indie, post rock and hardcore. Yeah, yeah,
42:27
we're cut from the same cloth and that we really are. Sure all
42:32
right, Well things you would like to plug? Now you're in a band
42:36
called Harper, so please don't please don't forget to plug Harper for us.
42:40
Yeah, Harper. I mean we haven't played a show or done anything in
42:45
probably five years, five or six years now, but we might be releasing
42:50
like a little three song EP just for fun, just to mess around again
42:53
for the first time in a long time. So Harper is spelled h forward
42:58
slash our p e er and we're on Spotify. Yeah, that's that's a
43:05
very millennial way of spelling that, you know. It's yeah, yep,
43:10
yeah, So Harper. That's been that's been a blast, that was a
43:15
huge part of life. I've got a management firm that I'm doing with a
43:21
really close friend named Alex Zimmerman, and we kind of we've been managing some
43:27
CCM artists and some indie guys and some producers and that's called Circle Back Entertainment
43:31
Group. So we've got some really talented producers on that. Robbie r Trust
43:38
is one. He's an incredible He actually produced my band's first EP and knocked
43:45
it out of the park, and now he's doing like some really big country
43:49
artists. So, you know, just another hardcore guy who got around into
43:53
the country world. So Evan Wally is another one, and then a guy
43:59
named Devin dan Diez is another producer we're working with. I've also got a
44:06
podcast called does It Rip where we listen to songs for five minutes and determine
44:12
whether or not the song rips. So we're releasing season one of that in
44:16
a couple of weeks here. So that's a good kind of ripping, ripping
44:20
ass or what kind of yeah, oh, you know, just ripping.
44:22
Dude, does the song rip? You know it's it's I would say rip
44:28
is an objective term, but you know, maybe it's not. Yeah,
44:34
I dig that, yeah, man, Yeah, that's about everything. My
44:37
design firm is called four Pin Design. You can follow me on Instagram four
44:45
pink. So my partner in that his name, his last name is Fourgnier
44:50
and my last name's pin Found so four pin nice. Yeah, I feel
44:55
like that's about it. I mean I could shout out people for days though,
44:59
you know, Yeah, is anything else you'd like to like to shout
45:04
out or anything else you'd like to plug. Yeah, I mean deep sea
45:10
fishing. Honestly, it's a great pastime. Yeah, you know, I
45:16
was just watching some videos of deep sea fishing and honestly, what a dangerous
45:22
thing to do. Those fish If they get in your boat, you're fucked.
45:25
You You're screwed, dude. So, you know, was out in
45:30
the water with my dad. It was a good time. You know.
45:32
So you are a man of many talents. And uh I hope that one
45:37
day, Matthew we get to meet. Well. Uh so, So Matthew's
45:39
a good friend of our our podcast friend and real life friend, Justin Jones.
45:45
So the four of us are gonna to get together and hang. Oh
45:47
yeah, I'm so down for that. That'd be a blast. That'd be
45:52
great. You know, as long as we all gang up on Justin Jones
45:55
and just talk a lot of shit, all three of us to him,
45:59
I'm all for it. Yes, I can't do that to Justin though,
46:04
Well you're gonna have to, because it's just you're gonna have It hurts my
46:07
soul to mean to Justin. There are plenty of other people I have no
46:12
problem being mean too, But you know, no we're not mean, it's
46:16
just like you know how it goes. Oh, you just up on him
46:20
and talk ship right yeah yeah, behind behind his back, mainly behind his
46:23
back episodes that he's not on, Yeah yeah, but he'll definitely listen to
46:30
him. So it's like it's like when your friends making fun of you in
46:35
like the locker room, but you're on the other side of the lockers and
46:37
you hear it, but they never meant for you to hear it, and
46:40
then like you like turn around the corner and they're like, oh, you
46:45
were there the entire time. Yeah, I was here the entire time.
46:49
It's that it's that kind of like middle school scene and your balls haven't dropped
46:52
yet. Yeah. Yeah, it's like you were there the whole time.
46:57
Yeah, I was there the whole time. It's it's spot on. I'm
47:00
sure you sounded exactly like that colon. That's exactly how. I don't even
47:07
know what I sounded like when I was a child. Don't ask me.
47:10
You've always had this voice since I've known you. You know, I think
47:14
that is actually true. I don't think my voice ever actually dropped because my
47:16
balls dropped. I'm pretty sure Cohen's balls dropped when he was seven, not
47:20
seventh grade. Seven. Yeah, I think that might have been the case.
47:22
Man, kind of jealous, honestly, you know, we all we
47:29
all we all develop at different times. And this is no this is no
47:32
judgment zone, right, Matthew, it's been it's been great having you on
47:37
my dude. Thanks guys. Uh yeah, you're seriously, like right now
47:42
on my my top five list of people I want to have a beer with.
47:45
You're you're on that list, dude, right back at you, if
47:49
you're If either of you are ever in Nashville, will make it happen.
47:53
We'll get out. You're never going to be in South Dakota, so I
47:57
get it. Well, feel while well, maybe when you come to if
48:02
you work with Three Doors Down again, I'll meet you out at Sturgis.
48:06
I'd love that. Man. That'd be sick. Just they go every year.
48:12
It's their perfect demographic. All right, man, thank you so much.
48:15
We'll have you on again for sure. Oh I would love to Thanks guys,