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" For My Sister," Denise Brown's Legacy to Nicole Brown Simpson · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Orenthal James Simpson. O.J. Simpson
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: finally gets one of the many, many slaps in the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: face he deserves. Some would argue he deserved the death
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: penalty for a double murder. That did not happen. I'm
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. Well, it's about time somebody
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: said double murder and domestic abuse trumps crime. being an
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: all-star athlete. All the football glory, all the gridiron greatness
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: cannot erase the bloodstain on the memory of Nicole Brown
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: and Ron Goldman.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: In the first days after the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Her sister, Denise Brown, said Nicole was not a battered woman.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: It took finding some of Nicole's private journals to open
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: her eyes and see that Nicole had been an abused
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: and battered woman almost since the day she first met
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: OJ Simpson. In her book, For My Sister Nicole, Love
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't Hurt, What to Know About Domestic Violence, Denise Brown
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: never mentions OJ Simpson by name, but makes it crystal
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: clear to whom she is referring by saying, quote, my
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: sister's ex-husband or the football star. But Brown says it's
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: not about him, except that he was the murderer, the batterer,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: the abusive partner that my sister had. In this memoir,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Denise Brown provides excerpts from Nicole's private journals detailing years
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: of abuse, not to be salacious. but to show women
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: currently in an abusive situation that they are not alone
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: and help is available. Written by Denise Brown. For my
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: sister Nicole, love shouldn't hurt. What to Know About Domestic
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Violence is available now.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Take a listen to our friends at ABC.
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: Right after Nicole was murdered, my sister Dominique, she found the.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Diaries up at Nicole's place.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: A couple of months later, my father started looking through
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: the boxes and looking and started reading them. And he
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: called me to his bedroom and he said, Denise... He says,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: come here and take a look at this. I started
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: reading them, and I thought, oh, my God. Why didn't
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: she leave? Why didn't she tell us?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: You know, I asked all the why questions.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: A lot of football lovers refuse to believe O.J. Simpson
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: did it, even though he writes a book, If I
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Did It, and lays out the scenario of the murders
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of his beautiful ex-wife, Nicole Brown, and her friend, Ron Goldman.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: The brutality is something I will never forget.
• 2:38
  Speaker 6: You know what always strikes me about that portion of
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: one of Nicole Brown's many, many 911 calls is that
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: she was just like, yeah, he's breaking into my house again.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: By this time, It had happened so many times and
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: she had been beaten so many times. That photo that
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: was put up in the courtroom during Simpson's murder trial
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of her with her face just totally beaten and bruised.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, how that jury, oh gosh, that's one of them.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Look at her arm for Pete's sake. Oh gosh. It
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: happened over and over and over. Joining me right now,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: two incredible guests. First, I want to introduce to you
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Keith Zlomcewicz. He is Nicole Brown's former boyfriend, and he
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: is the author of a brand new book, Stalked. And
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I've got it right now, but I really think we
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: should give the whole title. It's Stalked. It could have
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: been me. And I think what you mean by that, Keith...
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: is that you could have been the one lying out
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: in the driveway that night with your head nearly severed
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: off your body. Nicole Brown's head was attached to her
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: body by a thin bit of flesh in the back
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: of her neck. She had been almost totally decapitated. The
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: killer had that immense strength. I wonder what he would
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: have done with you if he had gotten a hold
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: of you, Keith, knowing that you had been dating Nicole.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Actually spying on you through the window, freak.
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: Freak is right. And you're absolutely right when you say that.
• 4:51
  Speaker 7: In real time, maybe it didn't cross my mind as much,
• 4:54
  Speaker 7: but after I saw what he was capable of in
• 4:57
  Speaker 7: the murders, it's something I've had to live with for
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: 30 years. I think that it could have been me.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: You are seeing shots of Nicole in life. Some of
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the happiest times of her life, outside of being a mom,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: were with Keith Zlomzowicz. It's not just what he's saying.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: It's what other people said. Of course, their relationship was marred,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: ruined by this.
• 5:25
  Speaker 7: It's 3 o'clock in the morning.
• 5:30
  Speaker 8: And Keith and Nicole made love on the couch. But
• 5:35
  Speaker 8: they weren't alone. There was somebody watching. There was someone
• 5:43
  Speaker 8: watching through the window. It was a defendant.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Nicole hires a babysitter to watch the children while she
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: and Keith go out to a comedy club. Arriving home,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: the children are asleep. It's about 3 a.m. when Keith
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: and Nicole become amorous on the couch. unbeknownst to either
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: of them. OJ Simpson is hiding in the bushes outside
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: the house, stalking, watching the couple make love on the couch.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Did you have any idea that OJ Simpson was staring?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: He's about three feet away from you. It sounds like
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: a Diddy threesome. Watching you have sex with Nicole Brown
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: with his children asleep upstairs. I mean, did you have
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: any idea?
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: No.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: The extent to which he was stalking you and her.
• 6:32
  Speaker 7: We knew about the stalking because it had happened several
• 6:35
  Speaker 7: times prior to this particular incident. But that evening, we
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: were out several places before we went home, one of
• 6:43
  Speaker 7: which was Roxbury, where Nicole saw OJ across the dance
• 6:47
  Speaker 7: floor and brought it to my attention immediately that he
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: was there. And we just sort of, at that point,
• 6:53
  Speaker 7: had had enough of his stalking and following us. She
• 6:56
  Speaker 7: looked at me and she said, what do you want
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  Speaker 7: to do? Let's just get out of here. So we
• 7:00
  Speaker 7: headed back to the house, not knowing he was going
• 7:03
  Speaker 7: to follow us. In hindsight, maybe should have had an
• 7:05
  Speaker 7: idea that that was going to happen. But, you know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 7: we got home and we were in the house thinking
• 7:10
  Speaker 7: we were alone and things happened. That was the first
• 7:13
  Speaker 7: time we made love. So it was a special, it
• 7:16
  Speaker 7: was very special. Come to find out.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You know, I need a shrink, and I need one
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: really quickly. Dr. Bethany Marshall is joining us, renowned psychoanalyst
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: out of L.A., this jurisdiction, author of Deal Breaker. You
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: can see her now on Peacock, and you can find
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: her at drbethanymarshall.com.
• 7:36
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, I'm just a trial lawyer. You're the shrink,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: but there's got to be a name for this, for
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: what Simpson did before the double murders.
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  Speaker 5: Yes, well, obviously it's voyeurism, but Nancy, it is stalking,
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: like the title of Keith's book. And the psychology of
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: stalking is that the perpetrator, the stalker, lives in a
• 8:02
  Speaker 5: state of rejection all the time. Even when that other person,
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: maybe Nicole, wouldn't pick up a phone call or wouldn't
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: spend time with him and everything got interpreted as rejection.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: So he stalked her to punish her for rejecting him.
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: He also believed that she belonged to him, like property.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: So I imagine when he's standing outside the window, watching
• 8:25
  Speaker 5: them have sex, take each other's clothes off, make out.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm imagining the whole thing with his face
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: pressed up against the mirror. Nancy, he was probably enraged.
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: And even at that point, possibly having homicidal fantasies. I'm
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: not surprised that Keith waited so long to, to come
• 8:44
  Speaker 5: out with this book because O.J. Simpson is gone now.
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: He can't do anything from the grave. So it's a
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  Speaker 5: safe time to talk about it. And it's a very
• 8:52
  Speaker 5: important message, this book. I think it's so wonderful, Keith,
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: that you wrote it and that people can read.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: About your experience. I don't get what you just said, Dr. Bethany,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: because Simpson, even during his marriage, women threw themselves at him.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: How can you say O.J. Simpson was in a state
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: of rejection? The world loved him. He was an icon.
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  Speaker 1: Don't you remember those? I believe it was, was it
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Avis or Hurt? I think it was Avis rental cars
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: where he would be running through the airport and jumping
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: over things. He's very athletic, carrying like a bag with
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: him or something. He was a star. He was in movies.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: He was in commercials. Everybody loved him. What do you
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: mean a state of rejection?
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: But you know, Nancy, this is what we see. And
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: I believe what's going on psychologically for OJ is that
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: he probably had sexual relationships with other women, responded to women,
• 9:48
  Speaker 5: flirted with women. But at the same time, he was
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: obsessed and preoccupied with Nicole. He only wanted her. And
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: so we see with these guys online. often they're pathologically jealous.
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: They feel betrayed all the time. Even if the girl,
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: the woman goes out, you know, maybe having lunch with
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: her friends or something like that, he would feel betrayed
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: and rejected. And then to get back at her, Go
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: have sex with other women. That's a really common thing
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: for sociopaths. And he seems to build that profile.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I just don't get it. Let me go back to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Keith Zlomzowicz, the author of a brand new book, Climbing
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: the Charts on Amazon, Stalked. But I like the rest
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: of the title because it says so much more. It
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: could have been me. And he's right. Because in a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: blind rage, Simpson not only murdered, decapitated his wife, Nicole,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: but but a completely innocent guy that had returned a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: pair of glasses to her home that night. You know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: there he is, Ron Goldman, and what a horrific phone
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: call had to be made to Goldman's family to tell them,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: just out of the blue, their boy is dead, murdered.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: They probably first thought, oh, it must have been a
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: car crash.
• 11:05
  Speaker 8: No, no.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Then they find out the awful truth. Guys, the stalking,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: just so bizarre. But that night, the first time that
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Keith had sex with Nicole Brown, they had been dating
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: a while. He had no idea OJ Simpson was peeping,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: peeping Tom. through the window, just a few feet away,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: staring at them the whole time. I'm really surprised he
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: didn't break down the window and come in and strangle
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: you right then and there. When did you find out
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: he had been spying on you that whole night?
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: The very next day, OJ burst into us. We were
• 11:49
  Speaker 7: in the back bedroom of one of Nicole's house, in
• 11:52
  Speaker 7: one of the bedrooms, and he came bursting in right
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: on top of us and started declaring that he had
• 11:58
  Speaker 7: watched us the night before and he wanted to be
• 12:00
  Speaker 7: left alone with Nicole. I didn't want to leave her alone.
• 12:05
  Speaker 7: I was scared for her safety. So I stood my ground,
• 12:08
  Speaker 7: stood in between the two of them and refused to leave.
• 12:10
  Speaker 7: He was getting angrier and angrier until finally Nicole realized
• 12:14
  Speaker 7: the only way to get him out of there was
• 12:16
  Speaker 7: to have me wait outside the bedroom door. So I did.
• 12:20
  Speaker 7: She asked me to stay close enough so I could
• 12:22
  Speaker 7: hear if anything happened, which I did. And then he
• 12:25
  Speaker 7: continued to go after her and read her the riot act.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: What was he saying to her? Let me guess. Bitch, whore, blah, blah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 7: Oh, yeah. How filthy she was, how disgraced she is.
• 12:39
  Speaker 7: I watched you. I saw everything you did. You know,
• 12:43
  Speaker 7: it was, it was just bad. I couldn't hear every
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: word he was saying, but when she came out of
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: the bedroom, when they came out together after about 10
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: minutes and he tried the old shake my hand thing,
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: you know, that wasn't, wasn't.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Um, Oh, okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: he breaks in. He bursts into the bedroom where you
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and Nicole are still in there. I think you said
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: still in bed. Probably woke you up and starts harassing you.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: What now?
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: I was giving her a back massage, non-sexual, and he
• 13:17
  Speaker 7: came in through the back door, which also told us
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: that he knew exactly where we were at in the house.
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: He didn't try to come through the front door. He
• 13:25
  Speaker 7: didn't come through the screen door in the back. He
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: came right through the bedroom French doors that we were in.
• 13:30
  Speaker 7: So he knew where we were at in the house.
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: And he came right through, stood right in my face.
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: As I'm looking up from sitting on Nicole's back, I
• 13:38
  Speaker 7: was obviously mortified. I didn't know what to do. I
• 13:41
  Speaker 7: got up slowly. And then he started in on both
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: of us and wanted to be left alone with Nicole.
• 13:47
  Speaker 7: So he repeatedly said, I want to talk to you alone.
• 13:50
  Speaker 7: I want to talk to you alone. And I said,
• 13:51
  Speaker 7: I'm not going to leave you alone with her. I
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: don't trust you. Until eventually Nicole convinced me to go outside.
• 13:57
  Speaker 7: I stood outside in the kitchen close enough that I
• 13:59
  Speaker 7: could hear if something was going to go down, but
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: I couldn't hear every word they were saying. Five, 10
• 14:05
  Speaker 7: minutes later, when they came out of the room together,
• 14:08
  Speaker 7: he approached me in the kitchen and gave me this
• 14:10
  Speaker 7: half-hearted sort of shook my hand, I'm a proud man,
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: was his statement. I didn't reply. I just sort of
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: stuck my hand out. And then he disappeared.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute. He's a proud man. A proud man that, what,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: hunkered down behind a bush the whole night to see
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: what you were doing with the wife that had broken
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: up with him over the beatings? That proud man? Can
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you just see him squatted down behind the bush? He's
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: probably as high as a kite.
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: And we know, it's my opinion, that he tried to
• 14:44
  Speaker 7: enter the house that night. whether through the front door,
• 14:47
  Speaker 7: whether through the back door, but I'm convinced 100% that
• 14:51
  Speaker 7: he didn't just watch us through the window and walk
• 14:53
  Speaker 7: away and go home. I'm convinced he tried to get
• 14:56
  Speaker 7: into the house. We didn't hear him. We had some
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: music on and we were involved, obviously. But, you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 7: to find out the next day how personal that was.
• 15:06
  Speaker 7: And when Nicole came out of the bedroom behind him
• 15:08
  Speaker 7: and he shook my hand and left, she was mortified.
• 15:12
  Speaker 7: You could see it. She was white as a ghost.
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: And she just looked me in the eye and said,
• 15:16
  Speaker 7: He watched us. Oh, my God. He watched everything we
• 15:19
  Speaker 7: did last night. And then we just looked at each
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: other and went, oh, my God, what's what's safe? We
• 15:26
  Speaker 7: didn't know what was safe.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You do know he probably camped out inside her house
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the entire night. There's no way Simpson goes home and
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: comes back. No, no, no. And this is while the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: children were home asleep upstairs.
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: Yes, correct. And the eerie part of that whole thing is, Nancy,
• 15:47
  Speaker 7: and it goes back to the title of the book,
• 15:49
  Speaker 7: is you have to draw a direct correlation between that
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: evening and the evening of the murders on June 12th
• 15:56
  Speaker 7: in 94, because the geography is so eerily similar. And
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: you read about it in the book where I describe
• 16:03
  Speaker 7: how I left about maybe 4 or 4.30 in the
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: morning because I would never stay the night at Nicole's
• 16:10
  Speaker 7: house because we were leery of the children waking up
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: and finding another man in the house. It was just
• 16:15
  Speaker 7: how we thought about it. So I left very early
• 16:18
  Speaker 7: in the morning and it was dead silent in Brentwood.
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: I just remember that it was spooky silent as I
• 16:24
  Speaker 7: walked out of the house to my car, which was
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: parked on the street. So I was accessible. So I
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: know he wasn't there then. He must have gone home
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: at some point. But If you look at the geography
• 16:36
  Speaker 7: of how there's a long courtyard and a gate and
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: another sidewalk that leads to the living room window, it's
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: exactly what he did on June 12th. He came through
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: a gate down a long sidewalk around a corner through
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: her front window where she had to come out the
• 16:51
  Speaker 7: front door where he eventually murdered her and Ron. So
• 16:54
  Speaker 7: there's a direct correlation if you look at it, and
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: I write about it, to both those evenings. And that's
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: what sparked in my mind the whole, it could have
• 17:03
  Speaker 7: been me. part of it because I felt like had
• 17:07
  Speaker 7: he still been there that night, it would have been me.
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: Or if he could have gotten into the house that
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: evening through an unlocked door, which none of them were,
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: that it could have happened right there in the living room.
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: So I've had nightmares about that for the last 30 years.
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: And it's something that was an overbearing.
• 17:22
  Speaker 9: Sort of subject.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, what does that mean? I mean, it's one
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: thing to have an argument with your ex. I would
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: expect that, especially when you've got children together. But to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: call your ex a whore, a bitch and everything else
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that he called her, told her he was trash and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: filthy and dirty and had shamed him. Really? With the children,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you know, they could hear him. He was screaming like
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a crazy man.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: Nancy is part of the pattern of abuse, right? Devalue
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: the woman, shame her for her sexuality, humiliate her, embarrass her.
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: try to take down her credibility in front of the children.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: These are classic abuse signs. Also trying to isolate the
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: victim from sources of support. So here she starts dating Keith.
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: They're having this romantic evening. He bursts through the bedroom
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: because what he's trying to do is assert dominance over
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: Nicole and over Keith. And he thinks that by separating them,
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: He's going to be able to separate them permanently. Now,
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: that really odd thing where he says, I'm a proud man,
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: he turns reality on its head. He's actually humiliating himself
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: as well as her. And then when he shakes hands
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: with Keith, that's, I think, another dominance move. He thinks
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: that he's been successful in separating the two, getting them
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: into different rooms, shakes hands and leaves. And I think
• 18:54
  Speaker 5: he feels like he got his way and like he won.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: What do you mean he won?
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: That he won, that he has now taken Nicole apart psychologically,
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: abused her, beat her down emotionally, and now she will
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: come back and depend on him instead of continuing to
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: date Keith. He probably thought that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: He won her over. So basically he's like a dog
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that comes in and teeties on everything that he thinks
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: is his.
• 19:22
  Speaker 10: Exactly.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: That's exactly what he did. That's how he asserted the dominant.
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: He lifted his leg and then he was happy and
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: he left because her house was his territory. Nancy, I
• 19:33
  Speaker 5: used to live in Brentwood. Between Nicole was just to
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: the south of me and OJ Simpson on Rockingham was
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: just to the north. So I know that area very,
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: very well. It is super quiet at four in the morning.
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: Brentwood is such kind of like a sleepy conundrum. but
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: it's a very wealthy enclave. So her house where it
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: was located, it was almost like walking distance between the
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: house and Metzaluna where Ron Goldman worked. And so it
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: was a place where there was a lot of visibility.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: She and I went to the same hair salon and
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: the same nail salon. And the girls in there would
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: talk about the fact that she would come in with
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: bruises on her face and on her arms. She lived
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: her life being stalked and being beaten. That was just.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Her life at that time. You know, it's very disturbing.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And even though I prosecuted, by the time I got
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: domestic violence cases, as they are called euphemistically, Somebody was
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: dead or had had an aggravated assault or aggravated battery,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: like lost an eye, lost use of an arm, lost
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: use of a limb. But when I worked at the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Battered Women's Center as a volunteer at night, that was
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: for nine years. And to hear these women, because again,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: by the time I usually got their cases, they were dead.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And I never got to speak to them. But as
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: working the hotline, I did speak to them. And they
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: would be just totally numb. It would be just a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: way of life for them. You know, that is curious.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Back to you, Keith Zlomzowicz, new book, stalked. It could
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: have been me. It's interesting the way you described, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to interrupt you when you first said it,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: that you guys were at the Roxbury Hotel. And you're
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: having a great time. Everybody's dancing. You look over. There's Simpson. Oh,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: what a coinkydink. There he is. He's probably been following
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you the whole night. And she was like, there he is. See,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I would have been shocked. Like, why is he here?
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: What?
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: But she, it was just typical. Another day in Brentwood
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: for her. There's OJ stalking her again. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: turning up again wherever she was. It was just routine
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: for her at that point. She was numb to it.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, by the way you described it, she wasn't
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: shocked or afraid. There he is, like a bad penny.
• 21:57
  Speaker 7: And we were getting used to it, to be honest
• 21:59
  Speaker 7: with you, because this was the third or fourth time
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: that he approached us in public. And they had had
• 22:05
  Speaker 7: an agreement, supposedly, that if they both showed up at
• 22:09
  Speaker 7: the same place, the first one there was allowed to stay,
• 22:12
  Speaker 7: the second one there, if they saw the other person,
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: would leave. He never abided by that, obviously. But he
• 22:18
  Speaker 7: knew where we were going, because the times that he
• 22:20
  Speaker 7: would show up would be just too uncanny. So we
• 22:23
  Speaker 7: knew that we were either being followed... Are we being
• 22:27
  Speaker 7: ratted out by someone as to where our destination would be?
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: So he knew exactly where to go, where to find us.
• 22:34
  Speaker 7: And that includes that night. We had gone to a
• 22:36
  Speaker 7: comedy show first before we went to Roxbury to go dancing.
• 22:40
  Speaker 7: We get into Roxbury and there he is. We leave
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: Roxbury and what's he do? Follows us home. So it
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: was a pattern.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, they even had an agreement in place. Hey,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: when we both show up at the same place at
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the same time, The one who got there first gets
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: to stay. So obviously, this had happened so many times,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: they had to come up with some type of an agreement,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: a truce of sorts. Of course, Simpson was acquitted in
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the murder charges there in L.A. Many people claim it
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: was jury nullification. He was then ordered to pay $ 33. 5
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: million to both the Brown and Goldman family, which he
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: never paid.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: He then goes.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: On to serve nine years behind bars over a robbery
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: and kidnapping, where he busted into a Vegas hotel to
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: confront dealers of memorabilia that he wrongfully claimed.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: Belonged to him.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: He got out of that jam November 2017, then spent
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: The rest of his life chasing Nicole Brown lookalikes and
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: living the high life, signing autographs in bars and restaurants,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: getting free tea times and meals. But now he's having.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Supper with Satan.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Enjoy. Why do I say that?
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Because of the facts.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: It's all about the facts.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Since the murder of her sister, Nicole Brown Simpson, in 1994,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Denise Brown has spoken up about how her sister suffered
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: years of abuse at the hands of her husband, O.J.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Simpson.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: During his murder trial, jurors heard 911 calls placed by
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Nicole when she feared for her life because of OJ.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: In her new book, For My Sister Nicole, Love Shouldn't Hurt,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: What to Know About Domestic Violence, Denise Brown refuses to
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: use the name OJ Simpson, referring to him as my
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: sister's ex-husband or the star football player or simply the defendant.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: But tells USA Today, the book is not about him,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: except that he was the murderer, the batterer, the abusive
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: partner that my sister had. In the book, Brown points
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: out how Nicole was only 18 when she met Simpson
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: a month after moving to L.A. from her childhood home,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and how warning signs of abuse were apparent from the
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: first time the family met Nicole's boyfriend. After Nicole's murder,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: the Brown family was shocked to read private journals Nicole kept,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: documenting a life of abuse and threats of abuse. Denise
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Brown says now she dedicates her life to making sure
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: others don't say all the wrong things like I did.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Denise Brown's For My Sister Nicole, Love Shouldn't Hurt. What
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to Know About Domestic Violence, available now from Blackstone Publishing.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Take a listen to CNN.
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: Our whole family was there, and the abuse was taking place.
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: We were there, and everything was happening behind closed doors.
• 25:33
  Speaker 5: We didn't see it.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: We didn't hear it.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: So for me to look.
• 25:38
  Speaker 10: At it and to see Nicole and to take pictures
• 25:42
  Speaker 10: of Nicole when she had the battered face, you know,
• 25:45
  Speaker 10: the scratched up face and underneath her arm, I took pictures.
• 25:50
  Speaker 10: Those pictures, I thought, were an isolated incident.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Guys, it didn't end there. Listen.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: Keith meets Nicole, Aspen, Colorado. Zlomzowicz is director of operations
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: for Mezzaluna restaurant chains, California locations and Aspen. Keith returns
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: to Los Angeles and he and Nicole begin dating. Keith
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and Nicole constantly under attack as Simpson stalks and harasses
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the couple. During a dinner out in Mezzaluna and Brentwood,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Keith and Nicole mortified to see Simpson pull up in
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: front of the restaurant.
• 26:23
  Speaker 8: Nicole was there. Keith was there. The defendant suddenly showed up,
• 26:26
  Speaker 8: drove up in front of the restaurant, got out of
• 26:28
  Speaker 8: the car, walked up to the table where they were seated,
• 26:30
  Speaker 8: put his hands on and said, I'm OJ Simpson and
• 26:33
  Speaker 8: she's still my wife. Well, she filed for divorce and
• 26:35
  Speaker 8: moved out of his house.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: That was intimidating.
• 26:43
  Speaker 9: And I don't want any emergency funding. Can you get
• 26:45
  Speaker 9: someone over here now? To 325 Gretna Green. He's back.
• 26:49
  Speaker 9: He's OJ Simpson. I think you know his record.
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: Did you just see somebody over here?
• 26:54
  Speaker 9: He's just all about to hear. Is somebody over? Wait
• 26:56
  Speaker 9: a minute. What kind of car is he in? He's
• 26:58
  Speaker 9: in a white Bronco. But first of all, we'll put
• 27:01
  Speaker 9: that door down to get in.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Let's see. The 911 calls escalate, escalate, escalate. Nothing was
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: ever done. And now she's dead. Joining us tonight, a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: man that truly loved her and that she loved in return.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Keith Zlomzowicz, new book, stalked. It could have been me.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And he's totally right. I want to look very quickly
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: at what we were just viewing, and that's Darden's argument
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: to the jury, because I want to watch Simpson. This
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: is Darden describing another incident where Simpson shows up where
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Nicole and Keith are. Let's watch.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: At the Mezzaluna.
• 27:47
  Speaker 8: Nicole was there.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Keith was there.
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: The defendant suddenly showed up, drove up in front of
• 27:51
  Speaker 8: the restaurant, got out of the car, walked up to
• 27:53
  Speaker 8: the table where they were seated, put his hands on
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: and said, I'm OJ Simpson and she's still my wife. Well,
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: she filed for divorce and moved out of his house.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: That's what I wanted to see. That's what I wanted
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: to see. When Darden says she filed for divorce and
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: moved out of the house, he's like, did you see that?
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I mean... And another thing I've noticed when I was
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: watching him during the trial, and Keith, you were called
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: as a witness for both the state and the defense,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: which I'm going to get into today. But I noticed
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: every time it got sticky for Simpson, he would suddenly
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: start writing notes. I would have loved to see those notes.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I did it. Come and get me. But he would
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: look away from the jury and start writing notes. So
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I would always know when I was watching the trial
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: at the time that whatever was happening that would make
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Simpson act like he was taking legal notes was something
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that was damaging to the defense. I want to move forward, guys.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Listen to this.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: After the incident at Metzaluna, when Keith refuses to back
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: down to Simpson, Nicole opens up and shares her life
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: of abuse with Simpson. As the couple continues to date,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Simpson stalks Keith and Nicole wherever they go, showing up
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: at every restaurant and nightclub, hiding in bushes and watching
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: through windows, making it impossible for Nicole to have a
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: romantic relationship with Keith.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Joining us, Keith Zlomzowicz, author of a brand new book,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Stalked It Could Have Been Me. Keith, when did she
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: first tell you that Simpson had been beating her for years?
• 29:23
  Speaker 7: Very early on, actually. When I got to Los Angeles
• 29:25
  Speaker 7: and we started the dating thing, we became friends. And
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: as these incidents of stalking started to present themselves, we
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: were living it in real time. So we had this
• 29:38
  Speaker 7: sort of bond. She She understood I was going through
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: the same thing she had gone through in the past.
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: So she started to tell me about certain incidents between them, beatings,
• 29:48
  Speaker 7: you know, control, all his possessiveness, personal stuff that I
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: think she felt at that time because we had a
• 29:57
  Speaker 7: bond from what we were going through together. So she
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: opened up about everything. And I think she opened up
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: more to me than she did to a lot of people,
• 30:04
  Speaker 7: maybe even some of her family. You know, she wasn't
• 30:08
  Speaker 7: very proud of some of the stuff that had happened
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: to her in the past. So some of the stuff
• 30:13
  Speaker 7: she kept inside, she shared with me because we were
• 30:17
  Speaker 7: living it in real time. She also was visiting a
• 30:19
  Speaker 7: psychologist at the time. We used to almost laugh about
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: it because the psychologist gave her a book entitled something
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: to the effect, women who love men who hate them.
• 30:30
  Speaker 7: And I remember she used to have that book at
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: the house and she'd read from it and talk to
• 30:34
  Speaker 7: me about it a little bit. She was trying to
• 30:36
  Speaker 7: figure out what it was that kept her with him
• 30:40
  Speaker 7: all those years at the hands.
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Of his abuse.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: You stated that Nicole Brown was not proud of things
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: that had happened to her. Like what?
• 30:53
  Speaker 7: Like beatings. I described some of them in the book.
• 30:56
  Speaker 7: There are times when they'd be on a trip together,
• 30:59
  Speaker 7: a business trip, and he'd leave the room and he'd
• 31:00
  Speaker 7: come back and she'd know that he was with another
• 31:03
  Speaker 7: woman and she would confront him and she'd be beaten
• 31:06
  Speaker 7: and locked in a closet. That happened more than once.
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: And she told me about those incidents. So obviously she
• 31:13
  Speaker 7: wasn't very proud that she was still around after some
• 31:17
  Speaker 7: of those incidents, but It was her family. It was
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: the children. It was the thought of having that family
• 31:24
  Speaker 7: unit together that kept her around all those years and
• 31:26
  Speaker 7: ultimately led to the reconciliation, the failed reconciliation that cost
• 31:30
  Speaker 7: her her life.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: That leads me to another case.
• 31:33
  Speaker 7: She got back with O.J.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Did her family encourage her to stay with Simpson?
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: No, I don't believe that. I know that they liked O.J.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: Initially.
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: O.J. was very charming. were two OJs. And this is
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: something she told me directly. There's two OJ Simpsons, Keith.
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: There's the public one that everybody sees. And there's a
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: private one that only I see. And you don't ever
• 32:00
  Speaker 7: want to be left alone with the private one because
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: you don't know what he's capable of. I mean, we
• 32:04
  Speaker 7: had that conversation. So I think the family thought OJ
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: was a nicer guy than he really was. I mean,
• 32:12
  Speaker 7: they were aware of a few incidents. Obviously, Denise testified
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: to several domestic violence incidents that Nicole told her about.
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: But I can't get in the middle of the family
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: dynamic and tell you exactly what they were thinking. But
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: I know Denise, you know, was witness to from Nicole
• 32:29
  Speaker 7: telling her several incidents.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Did they take money from Simpson, her family?
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: I don't know that they took money. I know that
• 32:41
  Speaker 7: it's widely reported that they helped Nicole's father with, I
• 32:46
  Speaker 7: believe it was a Hertz rent-a-car franchise that, you know,
• 32:50
  Speaker 7: he ultimately made some money from. So I think that happened.
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: I never heard anything like he, you know, provided them
• 32:58
  Speaker 7: with cash for a house or anything like that. And
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: I don't think that was the case. I mean, Lou
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: and Judy were salt of the earth people. They met well.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I think?
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: They stood for their daughter.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I think that people... make those claims against her family
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: to somehow, I mean, I see it all the time,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: somehow blame the victims. It's their fault. They were leeches.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: They took money. They encouraged it. And, oh, he lost
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: his temper and killed her. It's just total crap.
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: Dr.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, this brings up another issue, if you could
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: touch on it very quickly. Why is it the woman
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: feels ashamed? of what quote happened to her. It's like, Oh,
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I tripped. That happened to me. No, it didn't happen
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: to her. Someone physically assaulted her, beat her to a
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: pulp and would lock her in the closet, which is
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: a new twist. That's something I didn't know would lock
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: her in a closet. Now look again, I'm just a
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer, but that means something to lock somebody in
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: a closet and.
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: Well, again, he wanted total control and dominance over her.
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: So to lock her in a closet is to have
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: her all for himself and also to terrify her and
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: discourage her from interacting with other people. Nancy, this self-blame
• 34:19
  Speaker 5: that victims do, I think of it as a crisis
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: of boundaries, meaning the victim knows that something is severely
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: wrong with the perpetrator. The perpetrator is dysregulated. obsessed, self-preoccupied,
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: relating to the victim through power instead of love and affection.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: But the victim feels that it's her job to fix it.
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: And if she can't fix it, then she has failed
• 34:45
  Speaker 5: in some way. In some ways, these men pull the
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: women in kind of a mothering role that becomes the
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: woman's job to keep the man's world safe and predictable,
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: to make him okay. So when she can't do it,
• 35:00
  Speaker 5: when that task breaks down, she then falls into self-blame. Also,
• 35:05
  Speaker 5: there's so much humiliation going on, Nancy. It's almost like
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: a form of brainwashing where she begins to feel that
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: she's a failure in some way.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Did you hear what she said to Keith that there
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: were two OJs, the one everybody sees in public and
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the one that she sees in private? I have seen
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: that in court. Of course, by the time I get it,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: it's a domestic homicide. But no one would ever think
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: this guy was the devil, the devil, when he's alone
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: with the woman at home. He's so charming and charismatic.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Some people even think attractive physically. It could not be
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: more of a dichotomy.
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, I thought of sociopathy, right? The personality
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: disorder of being a sociopath when Keith was talking about this,
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: because one of the criterias is that the sociopath has
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: a thin veneer of affability. They're charming. They're outgoing. Because
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: of that, people really tend to like them. But the
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: minute they get their feelings hurt or they feel diminished,
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: minimized in some way, that veneer cracks and And what
• 36:19
  Speaker 5: you see underneath is a very cold, calculated interior. So
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: he was calculating probably for a long, long time how
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: he was going to put a stop to all of this.
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: And we know eventually how he did.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: You get what we're doing tonight, right? I'm not only
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: talking about your new book, Stalked, but I'm trying to tell,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and I want you to help me tell it along
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: with Bethany, to other women. They think nobody's gonna believe me.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: This is somehow my fault. I screwed up. I don't
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: want my family to know. I'm gonna wear a high
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: neck and long sleeves and long pants. I don't want
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: anybody to see the bruises. I don't want my children
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: to know. I don't wanna mess up my family. I
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: don't wanna do that. It's all technical legal term crap, BS.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: They will be beaten. It statistically will not get better.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: It won't. It will get worse. I don't like being
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: the harbinger of doom, but I know what the statistics
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: tell me. And the woman will live through it for
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the rest of her life if she stays. And even worse,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the children will see it, hear it. Mommy's a whore.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Mommy's a bitch. And they will grow up numb to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: that and think it's okay. The girl growing up will
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: end up with a man that beats her statistically enough.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And the boy growing up, he starts off like a
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: little angel, will grow up to beat someone. Statistically, this
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: is true. You've got to tell this story, Keith. Do
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: you hear me?
• 37:56
  Speaker 7: I do hear you. And that's part of the reason
• 38:01
  Speaker 7: I wrote the book. Over the years, certainly since the
• 38:05
  Speaker 7: advent of social media, I've been reached out to by
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: numerous women around the country and some overseas that followed
• 38:12
  Speaker 7: the story, followed Nicole and my plight and appreciated what
• 38:17
  Speaker 7: I did to try to defend her and pick up
• 38:19
  Speaker 7: for her. Made a lot of, I've helped a lot
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: of women out of circumstances where they've come to me
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: and said, you know, you gave me the strength to
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: get out of this relationship when I didn't think I
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: had that. And I'm still friends with some of them
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: to this day. So I wanted this to be a
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: sort of wake up call for some women who are
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: going through this right now, as we speak, who may
• 38:39
  Speaker 7: be watching this to know that it doesn't change anything.
• 38:43
  Speaker 7: Guys like that are going to be like that. They
• 38:46
  Speaker 7: do not change. When OJ tried his reconciliation with Nicole
• 38:51
  Speaker 7: 15 months after I had met her, and we had
• 38:53
  Speaker 7: been so close during that time, he took her away
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: to Mexico. She was at her parents' house for Easter weekend,
• 39:00
  Speaker 7: I believe it was. And he knew she would be there.
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: So he showed up unannounced, uninvited, and tried to convince
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: her he had been to therapy, he had changed, he
• 39:11
  Speaker 7: was a new man, and he swept her away to
• 39:13
  Speaker 7: Mexico to spend some time together to try to get
• 39:16
  Speaker 7: her back. She fell into it. And, you know, sadly,
• 39:19
  Speaker 7: all Nick really wanted was her family. She wanted that
• 39:23
  Speaker 7: family unit together, and we talked about this many times.
• 39:27
  Speaker 7: And she fell back into his trap of, I changed.
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: Let me show you how good I can be. And
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: she called me and we had long talks about it.
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: And she decided she was going to give it a try.
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: And that's when our incredible friendship that we had developed
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: came to an end because he never got over me.
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: And then fast forward to October of that year, when
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: the 911 tape occurs, Something else you have to remember
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: is he did all this in front of the children.
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: He belittled Nicole over the year and a half about
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: making love to me with the children in the house.
• 40:01
  Speaker 7: That was his big thing. Look what you did. The
• 40:03
  Speaker 7: kids are here. Look what you did. You're trash. You're dirty.
• 40:07
  Speaker 7: You're filthy. All the things he said and did to
• 40:09
  Speaker 7: make her feel that way. But look at the facts.
• 40:14
  Speaker 7: He kicked in the door and threatened to beat her
• 40:16
  Speaker 7: when the children were there. He killed her. and Ron Goldman,
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: when the children were there. And the door was open,
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: and they were sleeping right upstairs. And if they hadn't
• 40:26
  Speaker 7: found those bodies, the children would have woken up, Tommy was.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Kate, you're so right. And women out there are looking
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: at Nicole Brown before she was murdered by Simpson, thinking, oh,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: she's so beautiful. She's so glamorous. She's so perfect. She's
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: got this perfect life. this beautiful home, gorgeous home, children, Simpson.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And they think, you know, why can't I have a
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: life like that? And the reality is abuse. And that
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: seems to be sugarcoating it. I mean, downright beatings, breaking arms, noses,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: blood gushing out of your mouth, losing teeth. That's the reality.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And if it could happen to someone like Nicole Browne,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: It can happen to anybody. Speaking of the other OJ Simpson,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: take a listen.
• 41:21
  Speaker 9: And I want emergency funding. Can you get someone over
• 41:23
  Speaker 9: here now to 325 Gretna Green? He's back.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Please?
• 41:27
  Speaker 9: Okay, what does he look like?
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: He's O.J.
• 41:29
  Speaker 9: Simpson. I think you know his record. Did you just
• 41:31
  Speaker 9: see somebody over here? Okay, what is he doing there?
• 41:34
  Speaker 9: He's got a whole bunch of here. Is somebody over?
• 41:37
  Speaker 9: Wait a minute, what kind of car is he in?
• 41:39
  Speaker 9: He's in a white Bronco, but first of all, he
• 41:40
  Speaker 9: broke the back door down to get in. Wait a minute,
• 41:43
  Speaker 9: what's your name?
• 41:44
  Speaker 6: Okay, is he the sportscaster or whatever?
• 41:50
  Speaker 9: There's Mr.
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: Simpson kissing Denise Brown. Kissing Miss Juditha Brown.
• 42:01
  Speaker 10: That's Mr.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Louis Brown.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: He's talking to a friend.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: That's his son Justin, and he kisses.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: After Sydney's dance recital, Nicole, the children, and her family
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: leave Simpson behind at the school and go to dinner
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: with friends at Mezzaluna in Brentwood. Nicole's mother accidentally leaves
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: her glasses behind, and Ron Goldman, a friend of Nicole
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: who works at the restaurant, volunteers to drop the glasses
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: off at Nicole's house. Goldman leaves Mezzaluna at 9.45 p.m.
• 42:32
  Speaker 11: Not invited to family dinner at Mezzaluna, Simpson grabs McDonald's
• 42:36
  Speaker 11: with his house guest, Kalen Cato. The pair return to
• 42:39
  Speaker 11: Simpson's home around 9.40 p.m. Around 10.40 p.m., Kalen hears
• 42:44
  Speaker 11: several thumps outside his room and goes to investigate, but
• 42:48
  Speaker 11: gets distracted by the limo waiting outside Simpson's gate, hired
• 42:52
  Speaker 11: to take him to the airport.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: That first time you saw Closing Arguments by my former co-anchor,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Johnny Cochran, was from our friends at Court TV. And
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: you know what they're doing right there, Keith Zalmsiewicz, author
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: of a brand-new book, Stalked. Cochran, brilliant, great trial lawyer.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: You'd have a jury eating out of his hand. He's
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: portraying Simpson as being charming and in with the family,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: that Simpson kissed Denise, he kissed Judith, he kissed Mr. Brown,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: picks up his son, Justin, his son with Nicole. and
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: kisses him. Oh, what a great family guy. They all
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: love him. I know exactly what Johnny Cochran, God rest
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: his soul, is doing. This guy would never look at him.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: The whole family loves him. He wasn't BD Nicole. BS, yes,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: he was. That's from Court TV. Keith, that's what Cochran
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: is doing right there. He's a puppet master.
• 43:51
  Speaker 7: Absolutely. But that goes back to what I was saying earlier.
• 43:55
  Speaker 7: There's two O.J. Simpsons. He's in public there. He's around
• 43:58
  Speaker 7: the kids. He's around the family. So you're going to
• 44:00
  Speaker 7: see that O.J.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Simpson.
• 44:02
  Speaker 7: You're not going to see the private one that was
• 44:04
  Speaker 7: the one who beat Nicole and the one who stalked
• 44:07
  Speaker 7: us and followed us and made our life impossible to
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: be together and miserable. So it just goes right into
• 44:13
  Speaker 7: what I was saying about the.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Two sides of O.J.
• 44:15
  Speaker 11: Simpson.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Are murdered. There was the piano recital, then the family
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: goes to Mezzaluna after he's not invited, and his rage
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: begins to build, and this is where it ends. Listen.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: A neighbor sees Nicole's white Akita Kato wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: and on closer inspection, they notice he has bloody paws.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: A neighbor sees Nicole's white Akita, Kato, wandering the neighborhood alone, barking, agitated,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: and on closer inspection, they notice he has bloody paws.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: The neighbor follows Kato to investigate, discovering Nicole and Ron's
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: bodies at 1210 a.m.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: The dog wandering the neighborhood, covered in blood, Nicole's blood,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: her head practically cut off her body in the front yard.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: But no one believes Simpson could have done it. We
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: know he hides in the bushes and stalks her home.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: He sees Ron Goldman and thinks, oh, they're the whores
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: with another man. I'm sure that's what he was thinking.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Nothing could have been further from the truth. So LAPD
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: heads to Simpson's home.
• 45:40
  Speaker 11: Detectives Furman and Vanatter go to Simpson's nearby home to
• 45:44
  Speaker 11: notify him of his wife's death. Furman sees what appears
• 45:47
  Speaker 11: to be bloodstains on Simpson's Ford Bronco and decides to
• 45:50
  Speaker 11: jump the fence to gain access to Simpson's property. Venator
• 45:54
  Speaker 11: declares Simpson's home a crime scene and goes to secure
• 45:57
  Speaker 11: a search warrant for the house around 7 a.m.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Simpson leaves home at 11.10 p.m. to catch an 11.45
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: flight to Chicago, lands at 5.30 a.m., checking into the
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: O'Hare Plaza Hotel at 6.15. At 7 a.m., detectives inform
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Simpson of the murders over the phone and ask him
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: to return to L.A. Simpson flies back June 13th and
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: is handcuffed on arrival. Simpson is questioned for hours, and
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: investigators photograph a cut on his finger.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Blood on his bronco, cut on his hand. How did
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: this guy walk free? And then there's the infamous slow-speed
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: chase where Simpson basically holds himself hostage. Remember that? Because
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget it.
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: 911, what are you reporting?
• 46:39
  Speaker 9: This is AC.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: I have OJ in the car.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, where are you? Please, I'm coming up the 5 freeway.
• 46:45
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 46:46
  Speaker 11: Okay.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, hold on a minute.
• 46:50
  Speaker 7: Monica?
• 46:50
  Speaker 12: Okay, hold on a moment.
• 46:51
  Speaker 9: Is everything else okay?
• 46:52
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 46:52
  Speaker 9: Okay.
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 46:53
  Speaker 10: Okay.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. I cannot believe the arrogance of these two. You
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: know who I am?
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: What?
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: No, the dispatcher does not know who you are, Cowlings,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: from your first two initials. And he says he's going
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: to his mother's. This guy murdered two people. Why is
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: he even out walking around on bond, much less holding
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: himself hostage? No, anybody else they would have, police would
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: have overtaken, gotten them out of that car and put
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: them face down on the ground. But no, not Simpson.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: And it all culminates... in this.
• 47:58
  Speaker 9: Matter of People versus Orenthal, James Simpson.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: How do you plead to counts one and two? Absolutely 100%.
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: This is O.J.
• 48:12
  Speaker 7: Simpson's one day in court.
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: By your decision, you control his very.
• 48:20
  Speaker 10: Life in your hands.
• 48:23
  Speaker 13: Treat it carefully, treat it fairly.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Be fair.
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: Don't be part of this continuing cover-up.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Do the right thing, remembering that if it doesn't fit,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: you must acquit.
• 48:35
  Speaker 12: In the matter of the people of the state of
• 48:37
  Speaker 12: California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097211. We, the jury,
• 48:43
  Speaker 12: in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson,
• 48:48
  Speaker 12: not guilty of the crime of murder. in violation of
• 48:50
  Speaker 12: penal code section 187A, a felony upon Nicole Brown Simpson.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: That verdict's on our forensic court TV. Were you surprised
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: at the.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: Verdict, Keith?
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: Yes and no.
• 49:04
  Speaker 7: I was concerned that the jury was going to buy
• 49:07
  Speaker 7: into Johnny Cochran's bulls * * t, for the lack
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: of a better word.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: But I wasn't overly surprised Keith, you were actually a pallbearer.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: You carried Nicole's coffin. What was going through your mind?
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: You knew he murdered her.
• 49:27
  Speaker 7: This is almost a surreal out-of-body experience. You've got to remember,
• 49:31
  Speaker 7: the murders took place on a Sunday night, Monday morning.
• 49:34
  Speaker 7: The funeral was on a Thursday. It was So lightning speed,
• 49:39
  Speaker 7: I flew out there immediately. The family asked me if
• 49:42
  Speaker 7: I'd be a pallbearer. I didn't see them because I
• 49:45
  Speaker 7: flew into Los Angeles the night before. So the first
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: interaction I had face to face with the Brown family
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: was as holding the casket at the funeral. And that's
• 49:57
  Speaker 7: when one of the sisters came up to me and said,
• 50:00
  Speaker 7: do you realize what we were talking about that night?
• 50:02
  Speaker 7: And I said, no, I don't.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: She said, you.
• 50:06
  Speaker 7: She was talking about surprising Aspen. So imagine my heartbreak.
• 50:11
  Speaker 7: I hadn't spoken to Nicole for six months or so
• 50:15
  Speaker 7: since that infamous 911 call where we weren't allowed to
• 50:19
  Speaker 7: speak anymore because of OJ. Still loving her, still thinking
• 50:23
  Speaker 7: about her every day. She's dead. She's gone. I'm holding
• 50:27
  Speaker 7: her casket. I'm standing two feet away from the guy
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: I know in my heart and mind murdered her. And
• 50:33
  Speaker 7: I'm told that she was thinking about me the night
• 50:35
  Speaker 7: she was murdered. I was, I can't even tell you
• 50:38
  Speaker 7: the emotions that went through me at that point. So
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: it was crazy. And then as we went down to
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: the burial site, I actually had to stand next to
• 50:49
  Speaker 7: OJ Simpson, almost elbow to elbow for an hour or
• 50:53
  Speaker 7: whatever time it took to read the rites of passage
• 50:57
  Speaker 7: and everything that took place down there, knowing what had happened.
• 51:02
  Speaker 7: And having to stand next to him. So just imagine
• 51:05
  Speaker 7: my emotions during that whole thing. It's hard to describe.
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: I try to do that in the book. I do
• 51:10
  Speaker 7: my best job of trying to walk the reader through
• 51:13
  Speaker 7: exactly what I was feeling and my emotions. But it
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: was crazy. It was absolutely crazy.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And Keith, you never married after all these years.
• 51:23
  Speaker 7: Never married. Never had children.
• 51:25
  Speaker 13: Never.
• 51:27
  Speaker 7: I don't know if that's strictly because of my relationship
• 51:30
  Speaker 7: with Nicole, but I never got over it. My life
• 51:34
  Speaker 7: turned into a circus, obviously, with what was going on.
• 51:37
  Speaker 7: It took me years to get over that. And I
• 51:39
  Speaker 7: always kept a place for her in my heart. And
• 51:42
  Speaker 7: I just never could get that attached to anyone else
• 51:45
  Speaker 7: from that point on. So I'm pushing 65 now. I'm
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: still single. And I have a lot of great memories,
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: but this tragic event. shaped my life, my entire adult life.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not, I know exactly how you feel.
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: I know you do, Nick.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: This book is amazing. I'm so honored that you joined us, Keith.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: This book stalked, it could have been me, and there's
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: just so much more to say beyond what we've talked
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: about tonight, even beyond what's in your book. Just, I'm
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: very grateful for you shining a light on this plague
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: in our world of women being abused so horribly and
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: ending up dead and their children destined to repeat the pattern. Stalked,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: it could have been me. Tonight, we remember all the
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: women who preceded and followed Nicole Brown.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Take a listen to our friends at NBC.
• 53:00
  Speaker 13: Everybody knows I was privy to a couple of incidences.
• 53:04
  Speaker 13: I think there was three. One major incident of domestic violence.
• 53:09
  Speaker 13: I always thought they were isolated incidences. You know, I
• 53:12
  Speaker 13: did not live with Nicole. I wasn't there all the time.
• 53:15
  Speaker 13: So I did not know what was happening behind closed doors.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Victims to domestic violence. Not just them, but their children,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: victims as well. And we honor the women that find
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: the strength to speak out. They are all our American heroes.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Denise Brown, the sister of murder victim Nicole Brown Simpson,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: has released her memoir, For My Sister Nicole, Love Shouldn't Hurt,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: What to Know About Domestic Violence. Speaking to Lindsay Davis
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: on ABC, Brown claims talking to a woman's shelter discussing
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: statistics of domestic abuse... She was told the stats have
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: gone from one in four women being victims of domestic
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: violence when Nicole was murdered, and now the statistics reflect
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: one in two women are victims of domestic violence. In
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: the book, Brown never says O.J. Simpson by name, but
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: refers to him in ways that make it clear for
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: the reader to know who is being referenced. The book
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: provides resources for women who may feel as if they
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: are all alone, how and where they can reach out
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: and find the help they need. Out now from Blackstone Publishing,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: Denise Brown for my sister, Nicole. Love shouldn't hurt. What
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: to know about domestic violence.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.