Latest / Reimagine Running / Reimagine Running | Interview with Eric Sutterfield S1E5

Transcript

Reimagine Running | Interview with Eric Sutterfield S1E5 · Reimagine Running

• Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. All right everybody, I am excited to be back for the next episode of Reimagine Running. Like I always say, I have a great friend on, I think I say this on every one of the podcast episodes, but this one's pretty special. The main reason for is today I have a great friend, Eric Sutterfield, who first and foremost is just a runner, ⁓ right? He is someone Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. who has done the Wasatch 100 with me each time that I have done it. He has been at a lot of the same races that we've done together. We've done like the Skyline 55K together. he's been pacing somebody else at the Bear 100 one year. And so we have spent a lot of time on trails. He's also somebody that I'm fortunate enough wants to run with me once in a while during the week. He's someone that Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. I truly feel like I can talk to you all the time and I'm excited because I think our conversation is just gonna flow so smooth today and I think it'll be fun. We always chat about it up on the trails. We'll talk about running philosophies and ideologies and stuff and I'm like, dude, why weren't we recording this? We should have been recording this from the get go. It would have been awesome to bring a microphone up there. We actually joked about that today on our run. So I'm excited to have Eric join us today. Eric Sutterfield: Yep. Coach Ryan Head: A little bit about Eric, I'd to just give an introduction of who he is. So Eric, he's from the Davis County area. He has been running for quite a few years now himself. Eric has multiple marathons. ⁓ He's everything from like the Ogden Marathon to the Salt Lake City Marathon. ⁓ five 10 years ago, maybe a little longer than that, decided jump the trail scene. and he has been doing a lot of fun stuff in that arena. That is truly one of the main reasons why I wanted to bring him on because I'm excited for him to share his story there. because it's definitely a story of perseverance. It's a story of someone completely dedicated to a cause ⁓ really seen more in running ⁓ it just being a run, right? And that's what I'm excited about for him to share today. He is the definition of someone who has a very deep why. ⁓ with running someone who to me just exemplifies like the ideal runner, someone who says, Hey, it doesn't matter how many times I get kicked down. I'm back. I'm coming back. I'm going to keep going. And that's what gets me excited. So Eric, welcome to the podcast, man. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Hey, thanks, man. Those are some nice words. Appreciate it. And hey, congrats to you for getting this podcast going. It's pretty cool. Coach Ryan Head: Awesome, Eric. Well, thanks, dude. I really appreciate it. dude, like I've said this, I feel bad when this is going to end. But when I thought about this podcast and when I was like, OK, who do I want to have on? You were definitely one of the top ones that I thought of just because, you know, when we ran together and the stuff we always talk about, dude, you just you're awesome. And I always think to myself, dude, this guy is just he's so dedicated to this sport and he's always grinding like. You know, I strap a stock yet and I'm like, oh, this guy just, dude, he just doesn't stop. Like, man, he's after it. And I know we're gonna jump into a lot of your stories. I've got some fun ones that I'll bring up. I'm sure, obviously you'll remember them, I'm just excited to have you. Just a quick housekeeping item. As you know, a lot of our viewers can see, you probably won't be able to see it if you're listening on, you know, Spotify or Apple Music or any other podcasts out there. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Coach Ryan Head: I'm excited to announce that Fleetfeet wants to be our premier sponsor the podcast. So I'm excited, have support us. ⁓ Definitely go give them a visit here Layton or Ogden. If have any shoe needs, gear needs, nutritional needs, ⁓ they'll take care of you. Jamie McDonald over there at Fleetfeet is Cares about the community and I definitely plan to have her on this podcast eventually as well. I'd love to have her tell her story, which is really more geared towards the community. So. Anyways, that being said, dude, let's jump into it, man. I always say, I think I say the same stupid crap every time, but like, ⁓ I think I did okay job introducing you, but dude, tell us something more about you Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, I'm basically just a regular old dude that likes to run. Born and raised here in Utah. Spent most of my days up in Park City. Those are my grown up days. So big time skier, love to golf. Been in the Davis County area for, I mean, 15 plus years. Lose track of time. So the Farmington area, that's home for us now. Got a beautiful wife, got four awesome kids, and basically just a regular boring guy that likes to get out and do a lot of running and have a good time. Coach Ryan Head: Dude, I love it, man. You I love it. mean, like we've talked about me and you as we've been talking about this podcast and now we're, I kind of forget how many episodes I'll be in now, but like, that's the purpose of this podcast, right? Like, I'm not beating down elites. I promise I'm not like going after them, but like, we've all heard they're elites. If you guys are looking for an elite, there's a lot of great podcasts ⁓ out there, shows you can watch and everything. Eric Sutterfield: you Coach Ryan Head: You know, mine really, I'm really wanting people who not only have a deep why, but I'm really after people who are just like, you know, we're the back of the packers, right? We're the, maybe the middle to the back of the pack. Okay. Look, we can, I'm okay having those. We'll have a couple of leads. I've got a couple scheduled already. ⁓ but I love stories like Eric's because Eric is, is the type of person who just keeps going. Like, and he does, doesn't stop. And. Again, like I said, we're gonna get into some of these crazy stories with him. But I mean, the first thing I just wanna ask, dude, is like, you know, kind of give us like, did running and first into your life, like when did you start doing, like you said, you grew up in Park City. I mean, if I lived there, I'm sure I ski. don't, I mean, I live in Utah, I don't even ski, that's pretty bad. ⁓ But yeah, when did running like first into your life, it like junior high, high school, as a kid? I mean, maybe it was when you're an adult. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, no, I was not a until probably my mid 30s. And when I say not a runner, I probably never ran a mile outside of gym class till I was mid 30s, 35. I picked up running just kind of out of the blue. I was primarily just a gym guy, gym bro. I loved going to the gym. I always wanted to get big and jacked. Coach Ryan Head: ⁓ sweet. Eric Sutterfield: Got a little bored of that and I had a good buddy at work that I knew he had run a marathon before. So just out of the blue, said, hey, would you run a marathon with me? And so I went from zero to marathon. ⁓ Couch to marathon would have been a better start than I had. I really just wanted a fitness challenge. I thought that was a good fitness challenge to take on. So yeah, no, I just went into my closet, tried to find a pair of shoes and started running and learned real quick that there was a little more to it than that. But yeah, I was not a runner until, 35 years old. Yeah. Coach Ryan Head: That's, dude, that's crazy. I think that's the cool thing about so many of us in the community, like especially those that like, you know, have been doing like the trail runs with us, you know, a lot of us on the road running scene. So many of us found it later in life. Not all of us really found it in, ⁓ you know, our youth. Like I say I did, like I was, I ran the mile in junior high and. And I can't say I loved it. was, I felt good at it. Like I was pretty fast at the mile back, back in the day, but I kind of just lost the love for it for a long time. And like you, I kind of got back into it because I was at the gym and we, me and my brother were working out and he's like, dude, you gotta get a little cardio in you. And he's like, you want to try the treadmill again? And I was nervous cause I was afraid I'd like, I'd hurt my knee again. And I talked about that in previous episodes, but then it just clicked and I'm like, whoa, what is this? What is this feeling? I don't know, did you have that kind of same experience? Because I remember the first time I was like, you always think running's gonna be really hard and it's gonna hurt like no other, and at times it still does, right? But it was like, this was kind of fun. What was your experience with that? Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Yeah, I think for me, since it was primarily a fitness challenge and just getting out and running, I mean, I'm getting my first three mile run, my first five mile run, my first 10 mile run, all in prep for, you know, this, this marathon that I just happened to sign up for. And, you know, I stuck with it. I stuck with it from day one. And since it was just kind of. You know, the fitness journey, ⁓ it didn't hit me until I actually completed the marathon because I couldn't believe anybody would run 26 miles. I couldn't understand how it was possible, especially being a non-runner and then starting to run. you know, I think leading up to that first marathon, my longest run was 16 miles. And that was, I mean, Coach Ryan Head: You Yeah, yeah. Eric Sutterfield: It was so hard. so leading up to the marathon, I was like, I don't know how this is going to work. How is it going to be possible? But as soon as I finished the marathon, that runner's high that I got was incredible. I mean, I was on a runner's high for weeks and I still remember how that felt. And mind you, I couldn't walk for a week. Coach Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Hahaha Eric Sutterfield: I mean, I don't think I could bet, I don't think I'd bet my right leg for a week. I mean, I was walking around stiff leg, straight leg for a week. But the sense of accomplishment and the feeling I got was something that I've never really felt like that. And so I was hooked. I mean, I was all in at that point. Coach Ryan Head: Mm-hmm ⁓ Eric Sutterfield: It still kind of was mostly fitness related for, you know, the next one or two marathons after that. But then it had evolved dramatically from there where it was, okay, this is more than just fitness. This is something different because the way it makes me feel, you know, the way I'm able to cope with different things. So it was a powerful experience that I still remember. I mean, I still remember how I felt that. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah. Eric Sutterfield: that runner's high. And I've been chasing that same runner's high. I still get it, but not as strong as that first one. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. Couple of questions I gotta throw at you really quickly. What was your first marathon? and what was your time at this? Eric Sutterfield: Yep. So the first marathon was the Utah Valley Marathon, probably 2016, And I don't my first time. My ultimate goal was always the sub four, but you know, that's, that's, ⁓ I'm still chasing the sub four. I think it was probably around a 420, 430. ⁓ And, you know, was more than happy with that. mean, you know, kind of being delusional a little bit thinking, okay, sub four. ⁓ Coach Ryan Head: ⁓ No, that's respectable, Eric Sutterfield: is was the goal and I had trained that sub four was possible. I mean it would have taken a small miracle but the miracle could have happened. you know once I you know so once I crossed the 430 ish 420 430 you know I was I was super pumped with that. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome, dude. That's a great time. My first marathon, I've, you know, I've always talked about, I freaking felt like I was going to die and I did a 435, I think it was. And it's funny, especially for you listeners, if you, if this is like, if you've never ran a marathon before and you're like, okay, like guys, give me something like, cause this sucks. Like, and, I get it. I remember my first time training too. Like there was times I was like, this is awful. Like nothing about this is fun. Like you said, like Longest run you did was 16 miles. remember my longest run I did, I think was 21. And I remember getting back to my house and I was like, dude, there's, isn't going to go like this is not going to work out well. Like I remember being like, I'm four weeks out from the marathon. Yeah. I mean, dude, like I'm sure you had somewhat of the same experience, but then like fast forward 10 years or whatever it is that now you've been running and like, you can go out and bust the 20 mile run out and it's no big deal. Like, so there is hope people. Eric Sutterfield: Right. Yup. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, that's just a, right, that's just almost a Saturday now. You know, that's the Saturday long effort when you're doing these ultras. You know, you end up doing these four to six hour efforts on the weekend where, you know, 10 years ago, I mean, that thought would be ridiculous to think about. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah, so again, people, if you're listening and you're like, dude, I just don't know how these guys do this. I assure you, like, if you stick with it, you're going to get there. So I love it, man. I love like, I always love hearing people's first marathon because it's always an interesting experience. think Utah Valley is a great race. I think it can be hit and miss with weather. As you know, you've done it before. so I've heard the stories where the weather is like, pristine and then I heard what years when it's like 90 degrees coming into Provo and you're like, dude, this is bad. Like this is not a good experience. anyways, that's cool. That's awesome. So you ran roads. How long have you been running roads after that? Like running on roads and had it really gotten to the trail scene yet. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, I probably did three or four more road marathons and strictly stuck to road. Never really thought about trails, never knew a lot about trail running. And I don't, I don't even really remember how I got introduced to trail running, but the whole idea, you know, somebody might've said, Hey, you got to start running the trails. And I was like, ⁓ what, what, what's that? What's trails? ⁓ then You know, we've got some great hills, you know, some trails right, right behind my house. So really just started there and that started a whole new, journey where I was like, Oh, okay. This is more my vibe. This is, know, rolling hills, going up, you know, power hiking, running, walking, carrying a whole bunch of snacks in your pack. And, you know, that was, that was a whole different vibe. And I still. didn't fully transition to trails. I was kind of back and forth, back and forth. And then, I don't know, maybe five years into my running journey, know, transitioned fully to trails. And then still would do some road running for training if, you know, the trails got a little too icy or snowy for me. But trails became the deal for me. I'll still throw in the marathons now, but Oddly enough, the marathons are, I view those as a long supported training run now, which is ridiculous to say out loud because going from that is absolutely impossible to, hey, I just got to go get a long run with a whole bunch of people, you know, supported a lot of people around ⁓ as a long effort. So, but trails are where I like to be now. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. I was gonna say like, cause I know you've done, I think as far back as I remember, think mean, cause this will be, I think this is either my fifth or sixth year doing the Salt Lake City marathon. I know me and you have been doing that for quite a few years together. You know, we always start that race and then ⁓ anyways, ⁓ I you still do roads. Like you said, I'm kind of the same way as I've mentioned before, like ⁓ I don't. I feel like right now I feel better on the trails. I feel like that's where I should be for many reasons. It's just like my jam, like you said, I feel at peace there. feel closer to God. I feel like all this stuff being on the trail. I prefer to be on the trails at this moment. That being said, I still love running roads. I have a lot of great friends that run roads and I just like... I don't think I can ever step away from it 100 % because I just like it too much. I mean, it's what I got hooked on like you, like I got hooked running. I I like very similar to you. I had no idea what trail running was. I still remember the first time I did it was because of Nate Allred. He's like, dude, come run this trail with me. And I was like, well, are we going to be running like an eight minute pace? And he's like, you don't do that on trails. And I remember being like, then what's the point, dude? Like, I don't want to waste my time. If we're running like a 12 minute pace or 13, he's like, dude, just go slow with me. You're going to, you're going to like this. Eric Sutterfield: Right. All Coach Ryan Head: And I remember we started at East Wilderness and we ran to Fernwood. So right, just the regular, the three, five, three and a half out, three and a half back. And I remember being like, this was fun, but we went way too slow. I'm like, my heart rate was nothing. And this was like 2018, dude, like 2018, 2019. I was like, I'm not doing this ever again if you don't ask me to. And you know, now it's funny, all these years later, I'm like addicted to it. I'm like, oh, do I have to run roads? Like I want to just stay on the, I want to stay on trails as much as possible. So. Eric Sutterfield: Right. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. So talk us through your journey, man. Where did trail running take you? If you could guess, I mean, I don't know if you remember exactly the year you started doing trail races, but what was your first trail race? What did your journey look like there? Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, I think for me trail running, guess I probably had maybe four or five road marathons under my belt, started road started on the trails, started to hear about ultras and thinking, okay, who are these psychos that are running more than 26? You know, what's a 50k? What's a 50 miler? And Then I get introduced, you know, guys like David Goggins, Cam Hange, you know, some of these real psychopaths that have this, you know, this brain mentality that I think is incredible. And I picked up David Goggins book, Can't Hurt Me, read it cover to cover, probably the only book I've ever read in the last 30 years, I mean. I remember finishing that book going, oh, okay, this is what we're doing. We're doing a hundred mile. Let's go. And seeing as how Wasatch is the starting line is basically the, backyard. So I was like, oh, this would be convenient. Let's go ahead and sign up for Wasatch. And this was probably 2018 ish. And, you know, signed up for Wasatch in about a, I don't know, several weeks before the lottery. They reached out to me and said, buddy, uh, this, don't have any trail experience. You know, can you kind of describe your, your running experience? Cause this is a pretty legit race. And I was like, Oh, Hey, no, no, no problem guys. I'm, you know, I'm, I'm an experienced marathoner. I've got five marathons or so under my bell. Yeah. I know how hard it's going to be. You know, this is going to be great. Let's do this. And yeah. Coach Ryan Head: Dude, I love this. Eric Sutterfield: And they responded back and said, okay, well, since you understand this is very difficult, we'll let you go into the lottery. And so I was all pumped. I was like, let's go. my name did get pulled that first year. ⁓ And so for there, mean, probably a thing, ⁓ name did get pulled. ⁓ Still pretty at that point. But then I volunteered for the race, became a sweeper one year. And that, I think that was the, I guess, aha moment of like, ⁓ I think I could do this. You know, because we went and we just swept the course, picked up the flags, made sure all the runners got through the section. And that got me super intrigued with trail running. So from there, it's like, okay, you might want to do an ultra first before you tackle one of the toughest races, probably in North America, the Lost Edge 100. So my first real official ultra was the Skyline 55K, which yeah, the course is incredible. That's a must do for anybody. They have a marathon distance and a 55K. Coach Ryan Head: know, beautiful race. Eric Sutterfield: course is incredible. But that was my first first go at it. And you know, it wasn't it wasn't a great go at it. I finished it barely, you know, I probably finished it third to last. I mean, it took me forever. I mean, I've just but that was a great opportunity to get some experience figure out what this was, figure out what aid stations are, you know, what kind of nutrition and hydration and all those things you need. So that was my that was my first ultra that led me to believe that, okay, this is something that is possible. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. I love it. It's cool because I know exactly the feeling you had there because I am very similar to you. We were talking. I know we were talking about this this morning, but my very first 50k was on Antelope Island and I remember thinking like there's one climb out there that's like 1500 feet right and I remember when I tackled that I was like dude, I'm I'm legit awesome like I did something really good. like 1500, man, that's just like over like three or four miles or whatever it was. I'm like, that's just like, that's, that's like ⁓ a normal two mile section of Wasatch. Like you're, you're getting kicked hard all the time. And so the Skyline is a great race to, to mimic Wasatch in a lot of ways. I love that you've done that. I think that's, that's awesome. So yeah, take us, take us forward from there. What happened next? Eric Sutterfield: Right. Yeah. And so then the second, I put my name in for Wasatch the second year, this was probably 2019. And ⁓ I got the race, ⁓ but we know, the wonderful COVID-19 struck and that was the year the ⁓ race canceled, which that was kind of a bummer because I really do think I, I was ready for that race. I was training hard. You know, I had done. done skyline, but with COVID was, I guess, sort of a blessing for my running because I was able to get another couple of 50 Ks in, got a 50 miler in, and really started to get, you know, the idea of, okay, this is way harder than you think it's going to be. You know, with being somewhat naive to a hundred mile distance, You know, you think, you know, you're, you're this bad ass or whatever and I can do that. You know, it's, you know, it'd be no problem, but kind of having that, that progression of a 50 K 50 miler, you know, even the a distance, which I was able to do in prep for that first attempt at Wasatch, which ended up being, I don't know, probably 2020, 2021 is maybe somewhere around there. having that first attempt. So by the time I got to my first attempt at Wasatch, I had a number of races under my belt where I could really call myself an ultra marathoner at that point versus just some guy who's running roads thinking that he can come out and just hop on a trail course and finish it. So I felt like I was a trail runner at that point to attempt that first Wasatch. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, you're- Yeah. That's awesome. And like you said, like I think in 2018, yeah, you would have been like, it would have been rough. I mean, I won't say names because I'd never want to throw anyone into the bus, but I've had a few friends that were like, they've told me they're training for Wasatch and I'm like, dude, you got to try a little harder. ⁓ And they don't. And I kind of feel bad because I know what's coming now. You know, we both do because we've done it enough times. We both know how hard it gets and dude, it just beats the tire out of you. And the one thing that I know about Wasatch, and this is what I say to everybody, you only have so many mistakes to make. And when those mistakes are gone, it's over. Like, ⁓ it's be hard to come back because Wasatch is unforgiving and you think, ⁓ well, you know, ⁓ and look at the end of the race and you're like, ⁓ well, it's all downhill. Well, you don't know what kind of downhill it is yet because it's awful. It's not. Eric Sutterfield: Right. Coach Ryan Head: It's not what you think it is. like, ⁓ it's probably this nice little path that's gravel downhill for, you know, four or five, but no, it's not, man. It's awful. It's technical. It's all get out. You got boulders, you got rocks, you're like twisting your ankle and you're like, dude, this isn't even, and then if that's not happening, you got these washed out areas that are up to your freaking head and you're like, dude, how does anyone even run in this thing? And anyways, and so it was probably smart that you'd got a little more seasoned ⁓ and that you had, and you went after it. Eric Sutterfield: Yes. Coach Ryan Head: Before we start into your Wasatch stories because that's one of the big things I wanted to jump into with you I am just I'm impressed and I just want to lead with this just this little this bit for for our listeners is what what he has done with Wasatch is very impressive and He probably I don't know for sure how Eric feels about this. I'm sure to him Wasatch is ⁓ It's a lot of things. don't know, maybe someone we can't say on here for our younger audience, but Wasatch ⁓ Eric synonymous as, as two partners in crime, if you will. And, two things that will just continue to go after each other. And, and you know, when I think of Eric with, Wasatch, I truly think of like, just someone who just won't give up. think of like Rocky Balboa or something like. It doesn't matter, he just keeps coming back for more. And so I just wanted to lead with that because I know that sometimes people are like, hey man, if you don't succeed, you should give up. And I hate that mentality. I'm like, no man, you keep going after it. And so I just wanted to lead with that because now I'm excited for you to tell everybody kind of how Wasatch has gone for you. Eric Sutterfield: I know I appreciate that. Yeah. Cause I essentially I'm over five at Wasatch. So I've pretty much gotten in every year and every year has been a dramatically different experience. And, know, a question I get all the time is, well, are you going to finish it this year? It's like, well, that's the goal. Yeah. I'm going to try, you know, that's I'm training my tail off here and that's what I want to do. And, know, sometimes I get the looks of, why you, why you keep going back? Like what, what's the deal here? Why don't you give up? Like, why, why are you keep doing this? And I just think, why not? I haven't accomplished my goal yet. Like that's just not who I am. set out a goal to get Wasatch done and other hunter milers and whatnot. And these things are incredibly difficult. You know, that's what I've learned from, from five DNFs at Wasatch is the people that are finishing these races are animals. And I want to be in that category of these people that can do these hard things. And so for me, ⁓ I never a moment where I was like, okay, I'm going to give up and, ⁓ know, go golf or, you know, read books on the beach. You know, ⁓ I didn't any of that. wanted, I wanted to regroup. I wanted to learn and I want to get right back after it. So I know nobody ever wants to DNF a race. That's never the goal, but I think you learn just some incredible things from DNFing. And it's not just, ⁓ could be anything from, you know, nutrition, training, ⁓ it could be mental, it could be physical. You learn. ⁓ just so many incredible things from those experiences that make me want to get back and try it again. And I know that once I do get it done, that I'm going to keep going. I'm not a one and done type of guy. I want to be at Wasatch every year. Oddly enough, I don't know why I want to be there every year because it's miserable. But there's a part of it that's just incredible. So yeah, my first Wasatch that I knew we could chalk that up as complete inexperience at that distance. I was so nervous heading into that race. I think I had worn myself out with anxiety and being nervous before the race even started I ultimately missed the cutoff ⁓ at ⁓ first Missed the cutoff at the halfway point, which You know, was at that point, I was okay with the fact that I missed the cutoff because some guy told me, you can't go anymore. So I was like, ⁓ okay. You made the decision for me. That's awesome. I'm out of here. Let's go. ⁓ so, but I, but I learned that, okay, you, you, you probably need to move a little more efficient, you know, cause I always heard, okay, that first half of Wasatch be super conservative, you know, walk a lot, you know, take your time. And I, Coach Ryan Head: Yeah Eric Sutterfield: Literally did that I took too much time. I just kind of kept moving at a nice slow easy pace Which ended up being a little too slow? But you know that that helped me to regroup for the next year Where I said, okay, you've got to actually be far more efficient. You've got to be better at nutrition and That's where the the whole learning process for the hundred mile distance Really entered the game for me where it started, okay, now I'm all in. Gotta start watching videos, YouTube, all that stuff to figure out how are these guys doing it and what are the tips and tricks. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. Dude, ⁓ man, I have so many questions. So first and foremost, I agree with you. Like with everything you said and me and you, think we have the same loss. So many of the same ideas with running. ⁓ I, ⁓ I agree with you. Failure is, is probably the greatest teacher. ⁓ I know we've talked about this countless times on the trail too, but like I always think back to my DNF at on Antelope Island 100 or the Buffalo 100, right? And same experience, same, you know, I get to halfway point and yes, was there a blizzard? Yes. Was there snow squalls? Yes. Was, you know, but there, was other factors and I own it. I, one pulled me from the race. I pulled myself from the race and, and it was tough, man. You know, I can elaborate on that and go into tons of details about the feelings I had from there. But I remember thinking to myself, no one did it to me. I did it to myself. I pulled myself from the race. And I think that's the part that disappointed me the most because I was like, if it's taken out of my hands, that's one thing. And especially if it's for safety reasons, but they're like, no, just go. And I get it. I've had a lot. I've been on other podcasts where people are like, no, you, you showed you were mature. ⁓ You, should, had a mature to walk away. You thought about your family, all this other stuff. And I agree. Like it wasn't a good decision in the end. Yes. And, hindsight's 2020. I can tell you now it was a good decision, but at the time I was really disappointed in myself. And I was like, I beat myself up a lot. ⁓ I struggled for a long ⁓ in a lot of ways. And so I love that you're like, I've tried to use each one of these, not finishings, DNFs. to move you forward. Like you said, first time, you got pulled. It was what it was. ⁓ Jump to the second one. What happened the second one, third one, whatever. Eric Sutterfield: Now the second one, I pulled myself, I quit. I'll tell you that right now. ⁓ That I made it to, I made it to the halfway point again, but this time I had learned from the previous year where I got quicker. I did get to the halfway point and plenty of time to move on, but there was a lot of burnout that year. I had done a lot of races leading up to Wasatch. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah. Eric Sutterfield: And by the time I had gotten a Wasatch, I think I was just, just burnt out. I was tired. And unfortunately, when you're out there, I had made the decision early on in the race that I was done. Like get me out of here. And I've learned that you can't do that. You can't make decisions during a race. ⁓ you got to just get to the aid station. You've got to regroup. You've got to sit down. You've got to have some coke. You have something to eat. Sit there for as long as you want. And then the decision's always going to be, you're going to move on to the next aid station. But I had made the decision early on. I'm out of here. And so that one was disappointing to me because as soon as you, as soon as you get back in that car on the drive home and you get something to eat. Yeah, you know your feet aren't hurt as bad you take your shoes off and you go ⁓ dude what? what are you doing like you trained all year for that race and You you quit but Again, you got to learn from that you got to get stronger mentally you've got to think to yourself Okay, what what went wrong? Yeah, you made a decision at mile 40 and I even remember pulling into the aid station and first thing I said to the guy when you check in I was like, I'm done. I'm out. Who do I talk to to get out of here? And he was like, wait a minute. No, hey, slow down, slow down. Like just take a breath, go sit down, regroup. And I was like, nope, nope, dude. Where do I sign? I'm out of here. And that was a bummer because I should have listened to the guy. I should have said, okay, all right, let's sit down. Let's have some chicken noodle soup. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Eric Sutterfield: You know, because I had plenty of time. mean, I could have sat there at that aid station on the halfway point for an hour. I could have gotten more than recovered. I could have taken a nap if I wanted to, but I made a decision. And so I've learned that The only way you are not going to finish an ultra marathon is you either get medically pulled or you get picked up by the sweepers and you miss a cutoff. That's it. And having that mentality is really what is going to help and what has helped me in these other races is that's it. That's the only way you're not going to finish. But I didn't really learn that until further, you know, just this last year, but Having that is kind of the number one rule for me is you don't make decisions when you're out there and you just got to keep pushing on and regroup and you can't quit. They got to pull you or you miss a cutoff. And if you have that mentality, it's like, okay, we're going to get to the finish because that's the only two options that are going to happen until they pull me off the course. ⁓ Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, and just to kind of elaborate on that just quickly, I really love that mindset and I get it. I'm sure there will be people that listen to this that maybe are ultra runners and they may not agree with that. And I'm cool with that. Here's the reason why I agree with Eric on this is because when it comes to ultra running, I personally feel like you have to have your mind made up. Anytime you go into anything in life, whether that's this college, whether it's a job, whether... It's a relationship with somebody. If you're not all in, what the hell are you doing? Like, let's be honest. Like, why are you even getting involved? ⁓ I am exactly like how you are. And this is what you've learned. And I appreciate this from you. Like, you're committed. You're in it. And you're like, listen, I am going to go as, I'm gonna stay in this no matter what. And if, and whether that's being unmedically pulled. or they pull me, the decision's taken from my hands. Basically, it's the decision's being pulled from your hands because it's just not your choice any longer. I have the same mindset. I think it's a great way to do ultras. Now again, is it good to have people around you you trust that can say, hey, dude, you're not doing good? Sure, and I think that's smart. I'm never gonna say that that's not a good idea, but I have loved that mindset that you have developed as well because I have the same one and I'm like, no, it's go time. It's go, if we're gonna do this, let's do it and let's be all in. And again, like I said, and I know I'm repeating myself, but this is how I am with my work, this is how I am with any adventure. Like when I finally decided to do this podcast, I'm like, I'm all in. Like if I'm gonna do it, I'm not gonna do it half. Like I'm all in, I wanna do good at this, I wanna be committed, I wanna make sure we're going each week type of thing. And that's what I love about you is I think you're like that. You're like, we're gonna keep going, we're gonna keep pushing and. And see, you've taken something you've learned from every Wasatch. Anyways, continue with the Wasatch stories. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Well, I guess you could add a third rule that if your wife pulls you from the race, you have to listen. know, luckily my wife, every time I show up to an aid station, she's just, she doesn't, she doesn't know what I'm going through. She's like, do I tell you to go? Do I tell you to keep going? Do I tell you to stop? And so, so I guess there's three rules there, but yeah, the third, the third attempt at Wasatch made it, made it far. Coach Ryan Head: Yes ⁓ Get through it. Eric Sutterfield: Made it to about mile, I don't know, 60 something or so. And I missed, yeah, I missed a cutoff on this one. I was doing really well. was moving really good. I was pushing the cutoff for upper big water. It was getting close. Like I was going to make it, but in Lambs Canyon, I come across two gigantic bull moose and it's, you know, it's Coach Ryan Head: Yep, I was there with you on this one. Eric Sutterfield: 1 a.m. it's dark you know you're kind of terrified you know lambs canyon it's a very heavily wooded area beautiful canyon but i mean there's only one way up you know there's it's lot of bushes and trees and whatnot and yeah i come up and all of sudden i hear just a gigantic moose or noise off in the corner and a big moose you know he's moving his antlers on a tree and making all this ruckus and You know, he was far enough away that it was just kind of cool to hear that and see that. But then we, we turned a corner and boom, there was another one just literally lying on the trail. And there was nowhere for us to go. so we, about six of us, we were just kind of hanging out for a half an hour. I didn't know what to do. Like we, you can't really go around and you don't want to get off the trail and get lost. And there's really nowhere to get off the trail. mean, you get, would get lost. So that year, I'll blame it on the moose, but I was pushing that cutoff time. And for those that have done Wasatch, if you are pushing the cutoff times around that time, you are going to have a tough time finishing the race. Like the back half, if you're not further ahead from where I was, it would have been difficult anyways, but I'm going to blame it on the moose. But the great thing that I learned from that race, that attempt. Was I felt it I felt the possibility Was was there I was so close. I was closer than I've ever been I got as far as I could ever been And I remember immediately the next day it was all right. This is what I got to do Let's drop some weight. Let's do some more specific wasatch races let's Increase our volume. Let's just do whatever we can do to get that done. ⁓ So that was fun. That was a great experience getting further along and another opportunity to learn. Coach Ryan Head: let me just add a little thought that I wanted. So that I was with you on that race. ⁓ I ran that wall such with you mean you had done quite a few runs and races together that year. So we had become, we'd become acquainted. I don't know if we were like friends yet, but we were like, we knew each other and I remember, ⁓ you know, seeing you at the race and let's do this. Let's go dude. ⁓ and like you said, for those who have never done Lambs Canyon, ⁓ when you go up Lambs Canyon, He's not exaggerating guys. Like you, there's only one way up and down this thing because if you come off the trail too far, you're going to die. You're going to, you're going to go down this ravine and it's game over. Like there's, there's no with ends or butts. And the other way is up a sheer cliff, right? And you're like, I'm not going to climb that. So you don't have a lot of places to go. So I totally get where he's coming from. ⁓ it is dark. It's very steep both ways. and it can get really cold. up there too. And so you're kind of like, he was kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place in that situation. I know right where it happens. Just for frame of reference, and I love to share this, Lambs Canyon going up to, as John Mulmer, hopefully John, hear this, ⁓ Bear Bottom Pass, it has another nickname instead of bottom, it's used the A word, if you will, but he always calls it Bear Bottom Pass, so I'm gonna give John credit for that, because he doesn't like to swear. and then coming back down into Mill Creek, that section of running, which is like four or five miles total, lots of earth, 3000 feet or whatever, four or five miles, ⁓ it is the number one place that I have seen more moose in my whole trail running experience than any other place in my life. And I dare say it's over 50 % of the time when I run that, whether it's a training run, whether it's on the race, whatever. Eric Sutterfield: Yes. Coach Ryan Head: always run into a moose, 50, like not always, but right 50 % of the time. So it is no joke. That's part of the rules and regulations is what you're warned about when you do wasatch is there's wildlife and moose are probably the one you're gonna see. Moose and maybe a rattlesnake. Those who are not givens, but there's a good chance. There's a good chance you're gonna run into one of those too. anyways, I just wanna give a little context because... Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, you'll see him. Coach Ryan Head: You have to understand like it's a legit issue and it's a legit concern that that Eric ran into on his third attempt and so Honestly, our let's move you forward number four Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, yeah, those guys, those moves, they delayed me just ever so slightly that I showed up right on the cutoff. Well, and that got me, I mean, I was as dedicated as possible for the fourth attempt and I trained, I mean, I was all in for, I was all in for all of them, but that fourth attempt was it. I mean, I was gonna go for it. The fourth attempt. This one stung a lot because I had trained specifically every thought I had, every run I had was geared directly for Wasatch. And fittest I'd ever been, I was most prepared I've ever been for this race, had done a countless number of races, did very well at some of these races and I, for whatever reason, decided on race day that, I think I need to have way more salt in my nutrition plan. And so I, I, I had a very adverse reaction to taking way too much sodium. So I have learned that there is a limit of what I can take. And I started having problems pretty early on. that I'd never experienced before. that just, the wheels came off. They never came back on. And at one point in the race, I was devastated. I was probably at mile 40. I knew my day was done. I mean, there was something going on in my body that was saying, Hey, you are in trouble. Like you need to get to somebody that can take care of you. Like it was, I was nervous. was a, it was a tough experience. You know, I had finally gotten to the, to one of the aid stations and it was a hot day and I was freezing. I couldn't stop shivering. They had to put blankets on me and I couldn't eat. couldn't do anything. And so that one stung the most just because it was a major, major let down. It kind of crushed me in a, in a way that I hadn't experienced before. But again, it was another opportunity to learn something. It was another opportunity because Coach Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Eric Sutterfield: With these darn ultras, whatever you did last time that worked so perfect, you tried again and it didn't work at all. And then you, so you have to adapt. Like you're problem solving on these races nonstop from, know, your stomach hurts, your feet hurts, your head hurts, you know, whatever it is, I can't eat or, you know, so you have to learn how to problem solve on the fly while you're struggling. And I learned so much from that that, okay, you should have adapted way quicker. And now being able to feel or see some of those signs that are coming on of, well, you can't just keep doubling down on this because this isn't working. This is the problem, you know? And so that one hurt. That was a bummer. But, you know, again, another great opportunity to learn something and, you know, put another DNF on my record. Coach Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Put another D &F on your record, I love it. That's awesome. Well, again, I was with you on this race as well. I remember me and you yo-yo'd a few times. ⁓ And this was the same year that I was dealing with kidney stones and heat exhaustion. And I second you when I say I swear it was hotter than normal. Now, maybe it was those two things that caused it for me, but I felt like that year was just screaming hot. And I remember my crew, my pacers were saying the same thing. Eric Sutterfield: Thank you. Coach Ryan Head: It's just not a good year. Like this is really, really hot. And just a nightmare of a race. I'm glad, you know, in a lot of ways, I'm glad you did the smart thing there, right? But like you said, it was another opportunity for you to be like, okay, I've got to dial in my nutrition. And it's been fun talking with you over all these years about this, because I always hear from you, like what lesson you learned and like how you're going to change something. And I remember you coming back and you're like, I've... Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Coach Ryan Head: I've got my nutrition figured out. know how to handle that now. ⁓ You know, you're always thinking about, okay, this is what I got to do to be a little bit more efficient, how I can really get after certain things. I can be better at this. And it's just been impressive. So take us to Walshatch 2025, man. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, that was my best attempt so far. Regrouped, you now I've had all these years of trying to figure it out, had a lot of successful races up to this point. So another year of, you know, getting ready to go, felt like I could have easily have gotten that one done. Because the hardest part is, is every time I've made an attempt, it hasn't been because of fitness. You know, my fitness has always been there. It's always some other factor. But last year, 2025, great year, made it all the way to Brighton. I did make it to Brighton before the cutoff, about a half an hour or so before the cutoff, but I didn't have enough time to fully recover. You you were talking about, know, lambs, you're, you know, there's steep up and steep down. When you start coming downhill as slow as you were going uphill, you're kind of in trouble. So that was kind of the case for me where, you I was struggling on the downhill. The downhill was going to be tough and then climbing up to Catherine's Pass and then having to come all the way back down. So there I didn't have enough time. So technically, you know, missed the cutoff to leave, you know, because the The great, the great volunteers there. Some guy, I he was trying to cheer me up and he was trying to get me out of there. I mean, that was, he was so pumped to get me out, get me something to eat and just didn't have enough time to recover. I don't know if I could have made it. Well, I I take that back. I know I could have made it. I just needed a little more time. So the thing there, again, I learned it was a great race for me. was able to get as far as I could. You know, at that point, you know, you've got the back 30-ish miles of the race. So just another great opportunity to regroup, relearn, and then now, you know, get ahead into 2026 to go back there, you know, make the sixth attempt, which I will finish this year. Let's go. Let's get it done. You know, so yeah. Coach Ryan Head: Let's do it dude, let's go. I know you will. Well, dude, so I have to ask and I know you've kind of already elaborated on a little bit, ⁓ but you've elaborated on the why ⁓ aspect of learning, which has been impressive. And ⁓ me, that's a good enough why. If that's which I know it's not for you. ⁓ Eric Sutterfield: So, Coach Ryan Head: If that was the only why, good enough. But I know there's more there because you've told me why, dude, why do you keep coming back for more? most people, right? If you've ran Wasatch, if you're listening to this podcast right now and you've ran Wasatch before, whether you finished it or you've DNF'd it, you know how miserable and how hard this race is. It's unforgiving. It doesn't ever get easy. It's awful, a lot of it. ⁓ They make it that way. That's intentionally that way. It's not a Mickey Mouse Clubhouse type of 100 miler. ⁓ It's a pain in the butt. A lot of it is not fun. When you feel like it's gonna get easy, it doesn't. And you continually, you're like, why? Why can't it get easier? And then you think, okay, I'm almost at the end. And then it still isn't easy. ⁓ So why, dude? Why after five DNFs, you know? One minute and you learn from your mistake. If you don't know if that's mistake, if that's the thing, it's just a challenge got thrown your way. You learn from it and then a new one gets thrown your way. Why do you keep doing this, dude? Why do you keep coming back? Eric Sutterfield: You know, I absolutely love the suffering and the struggle that comes with ultra marathons and even just running in general. Running for me has really transformed my life. You know, I to say it's truly transformed who I am. It really helps me to deal with the burdens of life. You you've got your JLB, you've got your job, you've got your family, you've got your kids, you've got your bills, you've got your, you know, all these things that are burdens that we have to... deal with every day. And some people carry far greater burdens than that. And I'm always kind of historically a kind of an angry guy, kind of an anxious guy. got a lot of, I'm an intense guy. I've known that I hear it all the time growing up and you know, whatnot. And it helps, it calms me down. It really does help every single day. You know, you wake up in the morning, it's hard. You gotta lace up your shoes, it's cold, it's dark, it's tired. And you go out, you get a run in and you go, the rest of my day's gonna be great. It's gonna be easy. That burden or problem that I've gotta deal with today, I'm far more equipped to be able to handle that, whatever it is. And the beauty of these ultras is the suffering. And for whatever reason, I love it. I love being out there. I try to explain to people with what an ultra really is. It's this never ending loop of euphoria to anger, to despair, and whatever emotion you can put on your loop. And you get to experience that loop for 20 hours, 25 hours, 30 hours. And... You get to learn and understand what and how to cope with each one of those emotions. You know, because there are times where you are absolutely euphoric on a race. ⁓ And that feeling euphoria is incredible. But when you're on a race and you go, okay, well, how long is this going to last? How can I enjoy it the most? Because it might only last five minutes. And then all of a sudden you're sad. And then you gotta figure out, how am gonna work through this emotion of being sad or angry or in absolute despair and realizing that, well, that emotion, that experience is gonna come and go. You're gonna get out of this because you can literally go from despair to euphoria just like that. And experiencing that on an ultra, is so addictive to me that I love it. I love that suffering. But then to be able to take that carry over into everyday life is been the biggest contributing factor for me. It truly makes me a better person. I know it does. I know my wife would say that too. My kids would probably say that too. And that's why I keep coming back. And again, you know, I'm not a gifted runner. didn't started running late. You know, I'm a average runner on a great day, but being out there, putting in the work and trying to accomplish this goal of getting the Hunter Myler done. And, you know, I don't want to quit, you know, because of all those things. And it becomes more to me than, you know, pace or, you know, finishing times. I don't really worry about that anymore. mean, you chase those in your early days of running, that's important. And those are great things to have to, if they're important to you, that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. And we always want to try to get better and do races faster and quicker. But for me, man, it's just getting across that finish line, experiencing everything. Here in the bird's chirp, getting scared by moose at 1 AM in the morning, or... You know, coming across the river. It just, the clarity that I get from running, the quiet and the peace I get, that wakes me up every morning. That gets me signing up for these darn races. And I'm always going to want to show up and just always have that goal of getting to the finish line. Coach Ryan Head: Dude, I love it, man. I love it. Well said. And I agree with you. The quote of the podcast so far is ⁓ that you ⁓ love and embraced the pain, the ⁓ suffering. ⁓ I ⁓ that's what so many of us. When I just see other runners and I've talked to other runners. That's the key to so many people, right? They're like, you know, like if you can learn to endure and you learn how to embrace it, ⁓ it's not just about running. It's cease, like it is about running when we're on a race, obviously, right? Like we're out there, we're doing a race, but it bleeds into every aspect of our lives. And that's like what's the best part about all this? Like. when people are like, why do you love running so much? Why are you so addicted to it? And I was telling you this this morning, people say it all the time to me, family members, people I go to church with, my neighbors, whatever, they're like, why do you like it so much? And it's kind of like this slam, if you will, and I'm like, dude, come try it. Just come try it, see what happens. I'm just telling you, if you try this, it will literally, like you're saying, it'll transform your life. It'll make your life. Eric Sutterfield: Yes. Yeah. Coach Ryan Head: So different because like you said like how many of us go to work every day and you know, we deal with stuff and you're like, okay I got to do this today. I got to do this this this, know, and you're just like, ⁓ man, here we go. And you know, you got to deal with, you know, some crap you probably don't want to deal with. You know, or you know, you're you're dealing with some other stuff in your personal life or your whatever. But when you learn how to suffer and you learn to say to yourself like like what you said and you said it perfectly that hey, The despair moments are gonna pass the euphoric moments. They're gonna pass to the the parts where you're frustrated or angry They will pass all these things pass like and anyone that's listening to this you've experienced this in life already We all have we we all have experienced emotions and they pass because that's just what how life is ⁓ And that's that's what ultra running is but the thing is is the beauty of it is you push yourself you put yourself in that situation to that causes you to be like, I'm doing this to myself. There's no third party doing this to me. I'm doing it to myself. And if I wanna stop doing it, I can walk off the course right now, or I can find out how far I can do this and how long I can do this. And there's a pretty cool belt buckle at the end of the line too. So why don't we get to that? So I don't know, man. I love it. You said it perfectly. And I 100 % agree with you. We have not talked about the race that I've been trying to hide from everybody. We haven't got to that yet. Everyone maybe thought it was Wasatch in 2025. It was not. One of the main reasons I was excited to bring Eric on was because of what he did a few months back. So he also did another race in 2025, a 100-miler race. he did quite a few races in 2025, but. Eric Sutterfield: Thank Coach Ryan Head: He also did another race, ⁓ one that's very popular, it's well known, it's called the Javelina 100. Why don't you tell us a little bit about the Javelina 100 and what happened with you, Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, so let's just go ahead and I mean, there's the buckle. So we got it. We got it done. This year. I got the a hundred mile or done. got the javelina That was an absolute huge moment for me. Yeah. Javelina is such a fun race. It's a loop course. do five, 20 mile loops. Coach Ryan Head: There we go, there we go. Eric Sutterfield: So that adds a different component of difficulty. But for me, getting that done, I mean, it took me six years, seven attempts at a hunter miler. I got it done. And I remember, you know, finally getting across the finish line and my wife was like, ⁓ okay, this is it. You finally did it. Are we done? And I was like, nope, we're not. And... I've signed up for, you know, Wasatch. I'm in it again this year, you know, just cause I got that done finally after six years and seven attempts of getting after it. You know, I finally got it done. I'm so happy and just being able to break those barriers once and for all, because, know, you get to mile 80 and I've never gone that far before and it's you know, two, three in the morning and you still have 20 miles to go, probably another four to five hours of running. you just always telling yourself, how is this going to be possible? Why am I doing this? Like this is ridiculous. But being able to finally break that barrier of, no, you're not, you're not getting pulled. You're not missing a cutoff. You've worked way too hard for this. You're all in. It means so much to you to finally get across the finish line. So for me, being able to do that was such a cool moment Finally, I'm in the belt buckle club. yeah, such a beautiful day, beautiful race. ⁓ Probably my favorite race now. because that's where I finally got it done. Wasatch will always have my heart. I'm going to get that Wasatch buckle at some point. But yeah, just getting that race done was awesome. Coach Ryan Head: Dude, that's so cool. You know, one thing you just said that it hits really deep with me and, and, ⁓ you know, you said it, my lady. And I remember I, you know, me and Eric could become pretty good friends and we're always rooting each other on. He'll send me text messages during my races. And I tried to follow along and shoot him messages and as well. And I remember when have Alina for him, I was messaging him. was like, you got this dude, just lock it in. Come on. And you know, I was following the tracker. and I knew where he was at and I still remember waking up and finding out you had passed 80 and I was like, he's gonna do it, like he's got this. And I was so proud of you, like I was like freaking yes dude, like it's happening this time. And I was like, I had a couple other friends I knew that were doing it too but I was like, I was just on your crap while I was watching, I was like, okay let's go, let's go, like, yeah I remember just being like, dude you're there, you got like, I remember being like, you got 10 miles, okay you got like five miles, like. Dude, enjoy every moment of it and just be present and enjoy and live in that moment and be grateful that you got to do it. something again that you said just barely that just hits really deep for me is you get to my lady and you're like, you say to yourself, you're like, how can people do this? Like how I hurt so bad. And that's true. I've done it a few times on myself. Like I've gotten to my lady and I don't want to go anymore. I don't want to be strong any longer. I want to be done and I'm like this hurts so bad. Sleeping would be nice. Laying down would be nice. Getting in a comfortable chair. I'm tired of being cold. I'm tired of being hot. I'm tired of feeling nasty. My knee hurts like no other. I'm tired of all the wasp stings. I'm tired of all this other stuff and I can quit or I can choose to continue. The choice is mine. No one's forcing me to go one way or the other. But the one thing that always inspires me to move forward is I think about all the people in this world and in this life that don't get to DNF. They don't get a choice to DNF. They have to go forward or it's game over for them. They don't have a choice, dude. ⁓ They don't get the early exit like so many of us. And I just loved when you got that belt buckle because I was like, He gets it. And I'm not saying that you didn't understand it before, but I know that to get the belt buckle, it takes so much. And it is, you fight yourself. You fight not just your physical, you fight the mental, you might fight the emotional, you fight the spiritual, you fight it all. And it's a battle. And you go through all of them. You're going through ups and downs. You're trying to keep yourself balanced. ⁓ But to get it, dude, it's beautiful. and you just sit there and you have to be just like, you're so proud of people, especially when they're your friends and you know they fought so long and are thinking, dude, this guy has been trying for so long and he just did it. Like, how freaking magical. So, I was so proud of you, man. Such a cool experience. Eric Sutterfield: Well, I'll say this, you know, when you were sending me a text, they came at the absolute right times. was like somebody was, they were just perfect. So I'd say if you have friends out there that are a race, send them messages. Because at one point, you you send a message. And it was, you're going to get this done. And it was one of those, you can feel it in your soul when I read it. It was like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm going to get this done. And I remember the last three miles of that race so vividly because I knew the race was going to be over. I knew I had three miles left, maybe 30, 40 minutes, you know, slogging along. And I told myself. You've got to enjoy every single one of these steps because when you cross that finish line, you're done. It's over. Then what? So just having that, having that feeling of you got to enjoy it. This pain and suffering is going to end and then you get to sign up and do it all over again. having the community, having you as a good friend, sending those messages was incredible. Coach Ryan Head: Yep. Yep. Yep. Eric Sutterfield: You know, I got so many awesome messages from my kids during that race and they, know, dad, you can do it. Dad, you're going to finish. it's such a cool feeling, you know, to get that done. So yeah, super appreciative of those messages you were, you were sending me out there. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, well, dude, you're welcome, man. And then like I said, I know you always have my back as well. you know, one of those things that I I've mentioned before on other people's podcasts is just when I, I always do kind of my text thread with, my close friends and family and, that thread has saved me multiple times, a hundred percent believe it, just like you sometimes they, hit in here. And I, one of my favorite stores, I just remember Wasatch 100, my very first one, 2023, I'm at Scott's Pass and know, mile 65. And I get there and I just start crying. I'm like, I don't want to do this any longer. I'm like, I'm out. I don't want to do this. This hurts. This is not fun. It's cold. It was like 2 33 o'clock in the morning. And I remember I pulled my phone out. I was like last straw, like last straw. Let's pull it out. Let's just look at it. And I just start reading all the text messages from family, loved ones, know, like friends. And they're just like, hyping, right? And they're just like, Hey man, you know what we got, you got this, like let's go. And I remember I just, I started crying and my pacer comes up, puts his arm around me and he's like, we got this dude, we got this, let's go. And I'm like, you're right, dude. I'm like, you're right, dude, let's go. And we stood up and we just started walking. And I was like, just walk Ryan, just freaking walk, just get the crap out of here. And you know, and just every race sense, man, like I've got some great friends, you know, just something that I can think of right off the bat, like. Eric Sutterfield: Love it. Coach Ryan Head: know, Chrissy Rundio, who I'm gonna have on the show eventually, she sends stuff. Micah Shaw, she likes to send me music references, which is freaking hilarious. She'll send me like my Blink-182 songs and change a word to reference me. And I'm just like, yeah, Micah, you're freaking awesome. You know, I have two of my brothers who are just constantly like making jokes on the thread. And some people are like, who are these two clowns? But it just livens the moment. So I love it, man. Like you said, it's the support, the community is so important in all this stuff. I think it makes an absolute difference. So that's awesome. Dude, that is so awesome that you've had those experiences. You know, one topic that I wanted to touch on really quickly with you and the main reason why I want to talk about it is because we talked about it today, me and you on a run. And this will kind of be the last big topic that we'll touch on that we'll kind of move towards wrapping up. But it's about being efficient as a runner. Eric Sutterfield: 100%. Absolutely. Coach Ryan Head: You said some stuff today to me that really hit deep and and and of course like a lot of it Mean you just bounce back and forth that we were like having a great conversation But you know you talked about in your first Wasatch and I didn't want to interrupt it because I was like, ⁓ that's such a good point but I didn't want it didn't feel right to talk about until now, but ⁓ You talked about you went too slow and that's what got you DNF'd You got pulled from the race because you just weren't fast enough elaborate on efficiency as a runner. I'm curious because ⁓ it's important and if you aren't efficient and Eric's gonna, he'll tell what that means by being efficient ⁓ but it's different for each person and you have to figure it out because if you don't, swinging one way or the other will get you in trouble. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. Yeah. think, you know, being efficient out there is, the name of the game. And I think for me being on the slower end or the back of the pack or, you know, middle of the pack type of guy, having the perspective of efficiency of moving, trying to move along as at a pace that makes sense that you can maintain throughout the course of the race. It's you, you can't, you can't go full tilt at the start of a race. You just can't, you, you think that you're, you're at a race and we've got to go and we've got to get it done and we've got to run hard and we've got to run fast. And it's completely the opposite. It's. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, I mean, dude, think about think about Wasatch. Like that was the example we were using today. Like Wasatch, you got two and a half miles of flat more or less, right? And then what happens? We climb 4500 feet over three and a half miles up to the top of this mountain. And what happens, dude? Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, you know, you blow up, you've worked too hard, you've gone too fast, or you essentially have a goal pace in mind of, okay, I've got to run X amount of miles. My pace has to be this in order for me to get to the end of the race. And clearly from the start of Wasatch, you're going to be dramatically well above your pace. of your goal pace to get finished. And you think immediately, I've got to get this time back now. And you're only at mile 10. And so you start pushing, you start pushing too hard. And then the wheels come off and you didn't do any good. Because at that point, it's a math problem. I got to go just this fast and I'll make up this time at mile 40, I'll be caught up. to my gulp pace. I don't have to get caught up at mile 11 or 12 or 13. I can even still get caught up at mile 90. So you got to dial it back. You've got to run at a comfortable pace, something that makes sense, something that is going to be able to get you further along to the next aid station, to the next mile, to whatever it is. But if you overdo it, because you're trying to be a hero, it's over. So I think efficiency out there is huge, especially in these long distance, the 50 mile, the 100 K, the 100 miler. And dialing it back because you're better off running slower for longer versus faster for these short periods of time. And then when that voice in your head, when you start feeling good out there, because you will, mean at mile 50, randomly you're going to feel great. Coach Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Eric Sutterfield: And you're gonna think, man, okay, if I run this pace, man, we're gonna crush it. I'm gonna catch up and I'm gonna set a four hour PR. This is awesome. And then all of sudden you go, ⁓ whoops, that didn't work out. Why did I do that? Versus, no, I should have kept that feeling, slowed it down, and I should have kept that feeling for longer. I should have gone slower for longer versus these bursts of. of feeling good or thinking you're gonna make up all this time. Coach Ryan Head: Yep, yeah, I love it. I mean, did you feel like that's how you were able to be successful, or at least to some extent, with Havelina this year, using that same methodology? Eric Sutterfield: 100%. Absolutely. In fact, the strategy I used at Habalina was I ran for eight minutes and I walked for two and I did that the entire time. And the eight minutes that I was running, it was a nice, comfortable zone to just a comfortable pace. And then I casually walked for two minutes and I did that over and over. Versus historically, you know, you would try to run as much as you can and you ran the first 20 or 30 miles, but then you walk 50 because you did too much. And so for me, I was able to run the eight, walk the two for pretty much up until mile 60, 70 ish, which I was really proud of. And then from now. Again, I got to learn from a finish of, okay, now how do I get to where I'm efficient for 80 miles, for 90 miles, for 100 miles? So that really helped me dramatically to get that done, to put things in perspective out there that you do have this time to get it done. You don't have to go too hard, too fast. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, well the thing that I love about this and we were talking about this today too and you did perfect to just kind of rehash it. The idea of you sacrifice minutes to save hours is instrumental, right? And again, you perfectly explained it, right? ⁓ But that idea of like, and this is applicable in so many aspects of running, whether that's like I'm feeling hot spots on my feet. Eric Sutterfield: Yes. Coach Ryan Head: If I take five minutes at the next aid station, take my shoes off, take my socks off, clean my feet, maybe put some moleskin if it's really bad, get it on there, and then get out of there, it's gonna be way better than 30 miles down when you've got blisters the size of, you know, Wisconsin, and you're like, dude, I can't even run any longer, because it hurts like no other. And that's just one aspect of sacrificing minutes to save hours. We're talking just like what you said, like let's sacrifice a minute on my pace or two minutes off on my pace so that when we get to, like you said, mile 70, mile 80, ⁓ you're in the game, dude. And you're so in the game that you're like, I'm gonna do this now. And I think that's what, I think there's a lot of factors that go into why you finished Javelina. ⁓ I think you are so well positioned. You've done great. ⁓ You know, like one thing you elaborated on and we're getting close on time here. But one thing that you said earlier that I forgot to mention is, you know, when you said after your third one, third hundred attempt at wall, such you got in shape and you lost a lot of weight. He looks a lot different than he did after that third hundred. I can tell you guys I've seen him. I know what he looked like before and he's dropped a ton of weight to get into a lot better shape. And it shows like he's dedicated. He wants to do this. But this goes back to the idea of Yeah, it's a pain in the butt. It's not fun. He's got to sacrifice certain things to to become better. But because he's doing these things, he's gaining hours. He's gaining hours on races. He's gaining hours in life. He's becoming ⁓ not only just just another ultra runner, but but a champion in the running community, if you will. I don't know. That's kind of a lame term to use. But, you know, but becoming someone that is just that ideal ultra runner, the type of person that people should aspire to be because it doesn't matter how many times you have lost, if you want to call loss failure a loss that you never gave up, man. You just kept going and you still do. And you're like, I'm not going to give up. And I love that mindset. I'm like, dude, that's exactly like, you know, like Babe Ruth says, and it's one of my favorite quotes is you can't beat someone that never gives up. You know, I think it's something close to that and you can't beat them. Eric Sutterfield: Yep. Coach Ryan Head: Like if you just keep getting back up, like you can't beat someone that does that. And you become invincible, you can be this essentially become invincible because you're like, I'll be back. I'll come back for it again. And I'm going to try again hard over and over until, until I get it. So I love it. I love that mindset with you. think that's what makes, that's why I want to join this podcast. That's why I really appreciate you as a friend because we share so many of these same mindsets and same methodologies and ideologies when it comes to running. And it just tells so much about who you are. Like I always say, your action, anyone's actions speak louder than the words. People can tell me all day ⁓ who they are and what they are, but it's with their actions that really show who they are. And for you to just keep getting after it and you keep going and you've been up on the trails with me this whole winter. And you know, I always, I'm like, I'll see who really wants it. Who wants it bad enough? Also, I'll know for sure who wants it bad enough. And when I see you up there and you're out there running and you know, we run a lot together, I'm like, he wants it bad enough. He does. And that's why I really do believe you'll get lawsuits this year. I know you will, Because you want it bad enough, and you're willing to do whatever it takes. Eric Sutterfield: Yep. Yep, absolutely. I appreciate that. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, it's awesome, dude. Well, thanks for being, you know, diving in a little bit more on the efficiency aspect of running, because I just thought that was such a great topic that me and you had today that just really hit deep. I think, you know, just the last thing I'd say on that just for runners out there is if you're if you're thinking yourself like I want to finish a marathon, I want to finish 100, I want to finish whatever race it is. It's not always about speed. It's not always about your pace. If you can find that happy medium. where you can be efficient and you can keep your body in good place, you're do a lot of great things. So anyways, so I'll leave it at that. awesome dude. Well, I, as I've been doing with everybody on each of the episodes of the podcast, I've got a lightning round of questions that I wanna throw your way. And as I always joke, I think I know the answers to most of these, but we're gonna do them anyway, so it'll be fun. It's fun for people to get to know you a little bit better so that they can follow you or. Eric Sutterfield: Do it. Coach Ryan Head: any of that other fun stuff. So, favorite race distance. Eric Sutterfield: 50 mile. Coach Ryan Head: 50 miler, okay, nice, nice, I like it, I like it. Nice, yeah, you and Ken Svalberg, you both are the same way with that one, so that's cool. ⁓ Rotor Trail. Eric Sutterfield: Long, perfect distance, yeah. Per hour, 100%. Coach Ryan Head: Yeah, there we go, there we go. Love it. ⁓ Morning or evening runs? Eric Sutterfield: Morning. It will not happen in the evening or afternoon. Mornings only. Coach Ryan Head: I love it. I love it. No, that's good. That's good. Cool. Cool. Cool. What is your favorite post-run meal? And this can be a race or it can be just a long run or even on a during the week. Eric Sutterfield: a betos bacon egg burrito and a large coke. Coach Ryan Head: Let's go! Let's go! For those... yeah. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah, I love it. Long effort. You hit the Betos on the way home. It's money. Coach Ryan Head: For those not from Utah, Betos or Rancheritos, they're kind of the same. I don't know why they split, but sure, it's some family thing. For those not from Utah, ⁓ that is a famous Mexican food chain here in the state, and the burritos are like, bigger than my head. They're like yay big, and they are so good. Like, they taste so yummy, and I love, I know lots of my friends. I know Jo, who runs with me. She's paced me quite a few times. Eric Sutterfield: massive. Coach Ryan Head: That's one of her favorite post-run meals. ⁓ We talk about it all the time on runs, so good work, man. That's awesome. Next question, and it's kind of a two-parter. ⁓ Music, podcasts, or silence on runs? Eric Sutterfield: Nice. Silence. am never I can't have the headphones in I I raw dog every race every run No headphones. No music Coach Ryan Head: Wow, okay. I did not know that about you. I for some reason had thought it was probably music or maybe podcasts. Well done, well done. Silence, I'll take it. ⁓ I'll take it. Well, there's no two-parter to that question. I was gonna say, well, what's your favorite music or what's your favorite podcast? But there's not a favorite silence, so maybe the nature is your silence. So that's awesome. Eric Sutterfield: Yeah. I'm going be. Yeah, I got too many voices in my head that I gotta try to quiet them. yeah, I just like being out there in the swath of silence. Coach Ryan Head: That's awesome. Dude, I love it, man. I love it. Okay, couple last questions to throw at you. Dude, your why has been awesome. I don't know if you have any last bit about your why that you want to share. I always end with this question, but I got one other last question. It's just more logistical, finalizing things question. ⁓ if I asked you, what is one last thing about your why? Something you maybe didn't share or maybe you just want to rehash again. Right now, this is your opportunity. ⁓ One last thing that you'd wanna share about your why, what is it? What would it be? Eric Sutterfield: I would say there's three I like to live by. It's consistency, and effort. Those three things are what keys to life are, to running. ⁓ You have be disciplined. You have to wake up every day. You've got to do these things. You've got to tie your shoes. And you have to it. I would say there's three things I like to live by. It's discipline, consistency, and effort. Those three things are what my keys to life are, to running. You have to be disciplined. You have to wake up every day. You've got to do these things. You've got to tie up your shoes. And you have to do it. You can't take time off. You have to be disciplined. You have to do those things that you hate, but you do it like you love it. And then you have to be consistent. You have to show up every day. You have to put in the miles, put in the workouts. You've got to do that on an ongoing consistent basis. You just have to. can't take time off. You have to be disciplined. ⁓ have to do those things that you hate, but you do it like you love it. And you have to be consistent. You have to show up every day. You have to put in miles, put in the workouts. You've got to do that on an ongoing consistent basis. You just have to. And then the third component is you have to learn how to manage your effort. You have to know that today's an easy day, tomorrow's a hard day. managing that effort for whatever the goal is, is critical. And then the third component is you have to learn how to manage your effort. You have to know that today's an easy day, tomorrow's a hard day. So managing that effort for whatever the goal is, is critical. And for me, that helps me understand my why a lot more. That... You know, you've got to be disciplined. You got to be consistent. You've got to manage your effort and you apply that into everyday life. So that, you know, I got to be disciplined in my personal life. I've got to be disciplined in my work life. I've got to be disciplined and all these things. And I've got to be consistent with it. I can't just be great one day and the next day I'm not. I have to be, I have to try to be good or whatever every single day. And then as well, I gotta, I have to understand how to manage my effort where You know, you don't have to be intense all the time. You know, there's times where you do need to be intense or whatever it is. So I think those three components really helped me understand my why. And again, just to reiterate that it really helps calm the voices in your head. helps calm or helps you deal with the burdens of life. And that essentially is my why. And it just dramatically improves my life as a human here on this earth. Coach Ryan Head: Dude, that's awesome, You know, as you were saying that, I was brought back in my very first HR job when I worked for Wheeler Cat in Salt Lake City. had a, I don't even know if they know this, I actually stole it. It's ⁓ in my garage. I have a poster. You know how back in like the 90s there was like all these posters with like cheesy sayings on them and stuff? Well, they, they, for all you youngins, you don't know this, but there used to be this time in like society that people love putting up these like beautiful pictures and they'd have some cheesy saying or whatever. And they were awesome. They're freaking, they're amazing. But the one that I remember, and I had this in my office and it was from Vince Lombardi. And what you just said reminded me of this quote. says, I firmly believe that any man's finest hours, his greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear is that moment when he, when he has worked his heart out. good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle victorious and Victory is individual to each person. I used to always think well that means you won right whatever it is I don't think it's that you won it's that in your head you gave everything you had and that's where it's at and You know like when I think of you and was such I always think to myself That to you that was were victories those weren't losses that wasn't you being like I suck. I'm awful at running because you keep coming back. I'm like, dude, he looks at it as victorious. I totally like, I remember talking to you about Wasatch in 2025. And I was like, dude, that was a freaking win. That's like, you killed it, you crushed it. And you're like, yeah, it was. And I'm like, dude, you're gonna get it because, or I knew, and then I was like, you're gonna get Javelina because you were so good at Wasatch. So I love it. Thank you for giving me a little bit more on your why. I think that's beautiful. I mean, there's so many great one-liners from this, I think your mindset is all-time great. ⁓ It just goes back to a lot of what I've said about my own self, where ⁓ I'm definitely not the most physically. ⁓ I lack a lot in that regard, but ⁓ dedication and commitment and my ⁓ that will never be challenged ⁓ because that is something that know ⁓ I give everything I got it's game time. ⁓ Cool dude. Well, I wanted to do one little shout out as well for you. ⁓ Eric is the proud owner of a couple of beans and peruse. if you're looking for some coffee, you're looking for some Java, definitely support him. He owns a bunch of the stores down in the Salt Lake City area. So where are your locations at? Eric Sutterfield: Now we're all over basically the Wasatch Front. Me and my brother, we got a ton of locations. most likely if you're in the Bountiful area, you'll catch one of my stores. West Valley, Murray, as far as North Ogden and Bluffdale. So we're spread out. So odds are if you hit a Beans and Brews coffee, it could be one of ours. So we appreciate you coming. And if you see me there, a couple coffees on me. How about that? Coach Ryan Head: Dude, that's awesome. Well, there you go, people listening. I know a bunch of you Ogdenites out there. ⁓ know, Laquita, I know I'm talking to you specifically. ⁓ Get out there, get a free Beans and Brew, that's awesome. Thank you, that's kind of you to offer that to our listeners. But get out and support him, support him, he's a good guy. I definitely think Eric's trying to do the right things and I think he's ⁓ running a good business as well as we obviously have run a lot together and we've talked business and I... think he's trying to do the right thing. So awesome. We'll wrap up. Last question. Last question. If people want to follow you, if people, I know you're not much of a social media guy, but if anyone does want to follow you, anywhere they can follow you feel comfortable them following Strava, anything like that. Eric Sutterfield: Definitely Strava. Strava would be great. That's, that's primarily the only social media I interact with. mean, I'm on all the platforms. I'll I'm on TikTok and all that, but I, I just view, I never, I never post. So you wouldn't find me on any social media, but Strava absolutely hit me up. If you see me on the trails, if you see me at a beans and brews, you see me at a race. Absolutely. I love chatting. I love meeting people out there. Love hearing people's stories and people's whys. So, yep, you'll find me on the trail or Strava is the best two places. Coach Ryan Head: Awesome, cool. We'll give him a follow, on Strava, because he's a great runner. again, he is as consistent as they come. You will see him out there almost every day of the week. ⁓ And if not doing that, he's doing ⁓ strength workouts. just a beast, so follow him. anyways, Eric, thank you so much. Thank you to our listeners for listening to this episode. ⁓ So many takeaways in this episode. I am excited to go back and listen to this one quite a few times myself personally. Eric has given us a lot of great information. If you're somebody who has just struggled with getting across that finish line or and that finish line doesn't necessarily have to be with running. It can be in your personal life. I definitely recommend maybe listening to this one again because I think Eric's given us a lot of great information to really help us move forward and you know, find. not just our why, but what's our purpose? Why are you, why do you continue to even do any of this stuff? anyways, thanks again, Eric, appreciate you,