Latest / Harvest After Sunday / Human Value & Worth Pt. 1: Theology Q&A
Transcript
- Harvest Media: Welcome to the Harvest After Sunday podcast. I'm Natalie and I'm here with Stefan Wilson, pastor of preaching and teaching at Harvest. And I'm excited to have our conversation today, which will actually be kind of building on or digging deeper, whichever way you want to look at it, from our series a few months ago about what it means to be human. And again, this is a great place to just dig in deeper and deeper to application. Further questions we might have. people can revisit that three-part series on what it means to be human if they haven't already listened. But we want to talk, I wanna talk more about how to discern based on what we learned from the truth of God's word, about what it means to be human, to then discern like how we think about ourselves, our value, what we kind of say to ourselves, what other people might be saying. about us and our value or how we speak to others with that foundation of truth in mind. Yeah. I had a a friend who he was preaching years ago and he said in the in his sermon, he said, no one listens to you more than you, so tell yourself the truth. And that really hit me because first of all, I know very well that no one listens to me more than me. I'm we are talking to ourselves all the time. Constantly, yeah. And we are wondering what other people would say about us all the time, some more than others. But the reality is there is kind of this ongoing monologue happening within our own minds about ourselves, about our value, and it impacts the way that we view ourselves. It impacts the way that we think about God's view of us. Absolutely. Which then directly impacts my relationship with him. Mm-hmm. it it will motivate me to go to him or it will actually cause me to fear going to him. So I think the the practical outworking of talking about what it means to be human from back in the spring, it it just kind of naturally lends itself to we c we have to talk about okay, so so what should I think about myself that is true so that I can make sure that I'm I'm walking in the truth. And I see I see two kind of polarized ways that people talk about themselves. And when I say people, I am I'm talking broadly about all people, but you see it show up in the church as well. and so kind of applicationally we'll be focusing more on the Christian life and how we speak in the church. Understanding that we're a lot of times getting our vocabulary And getting our categories and our ideas from the world around us when we're not getting it directly from scripture. Absolutely. That's why I love these this conversation because we need to help people identify that and a little flag to go up and say, what am I hearing? And make sure I'm not just absorbing that, but I'm really comparing it to the truth. So let's flush that out. What are the common things that that we hear about our value? So the f the one that's more prevalent now. Is what I call worthy theology. So the f you'll hear people say the phrase, you are worthy. Sounds kinda good. Which sounds which sounds great. worthy of what? Well that yeah. I think that's that's the important question. Yeah. Worthy of what? Yeah. The way that it works s in our society is Well worthy of whatever you think you're worthy of. So if you feel like s you're worthy of something, you already are. And When you start believing that you're worthy of that thing, then that thing will come to you because the reason it hasn't come to you yet is because you don't think you're worthy. But as soon as you start believing that you are worthy, then you will experience that thing. So if I'm worthy of, you know, love, then I will start believing that and a spouse will come my way, maybe. Possibly. What if I think of it like I'm worthy of belonging, but I don't feel accepted in relationships or or feel like I have my community. I could see how that could then lend itself to anger or resentment or blame or I don't know what you do with that when you don't get what you've been told you're worthy of. Well, I th I think for one, that's why it's so important to answer the question worthy of what? And is that actually reality? Yeah. y Belonging is something that every person needs. And so when I don't feel belonging, what will start to happen is I will start to tell myself maybe I don't belong anywhere. And so that's that's where I think a lot of times when we have ideas circ circling us, it's good for us to start pause and ask what was what was maybe the good reason that this idea came up? Like what was the good motivation for where it came from? And while maybe the idea is flawed, you can understand why someone would say something like that. And if and if someone is longing to belong somewhere and they don't feel like they belong and they start telling themselves, well maybe I don't belong, then it's encouraging to have someone say, No, you're worthy of belonging. Like you should belong somewhere. But the the the kind of change that we need to make, the nuance that we need to make there is You're worthy of belonging because of how you were made to be in relationship with people. You see that that worthy idea in our culture is disconnected from God's creation of us, as is pretty much everything else in our culture. We disconnect it from God's creative design, but then we still want it to be true. Yeah. And we bring in worldly thinking into that. Whereas if we're saying it right, it would be you were created for relationship by a God who's inherently relational, and because you reflect Him, that means that there are meaningful relationships and community that you'll belong to, but you can only belong truly if you're belonging in the way that God intended, which is to belong to his people. Okay, there's there's a lot there that our world would say, Nope, that's not right, but we still want to say you're worthy of all the things you want. And if I'm not careful, what I will then do is I will then bring that into the church and I'll bring that into my Christian life. But I'll be thinking in the worldly categories of the things that I want to be true. And then I will expect the church to then say, Yes, those things are all good because you're worthy of them. And so now the now the world's message has confused the biblical message. But because it's happening within our context in a church and it feels good, we think that that makes it right. And that and it's not. So the the worthy theology error. is that it it allows me to define what it is that I think I'm worthy of. Because it stays so broad or loose and just they say you're you're worthy in general. And because there's not this anchored truth within it that's very clear, then we pack our own meeting in and we're on a slippery slope like we just were in the first few minutes there with all kinds of issues. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean I th I think that's that is simple enough. Okay. Now, the other side of that is is rather than being self exalting, which is what the worthy theology is, the other side of that is self deprecating. So that's like worthless theology. I know one pastor calls it worm theology. Like I'm I'm a worm. Nothing but a worm. Which actually comes from the Psalms. but there's he's making a very specific point in that psalm. He's not talking about his his value as a creation of God. He's talking about his moral corruptness. so worthless theology is because of my sin, I now have no value whatsoever. And because I have no value whatsoever, I I am not worthy of anything. I am rightly deserving of condemnation. But it takes it one step further and says, because I am worthy of condemnation, God does not care about me. God does not love me. There's nothing in me that is anything that God has set his sights on. I am garbage, right? Like we can keep stacking terms, but it's that view of self that is so. destructive in its thinking that it it also distorts the truth of what scripture says. And so what ends up happening there is now as I am speaking that to myself, that I am worthless and I am trash and nobody there's nothing about me that's even worth loving, then what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna project onto God that there's nothing about me that's worth loving. Therefore If he does love me, it's just because he's obligated to because Jesus died on the cross and I confessed my sins and repented and so God was like, Well, I guess I'm stuck with you Which is absurd. Right. Yeah, you start to hear immediately. I mean, I just that was devolving as you were speaking speaking when you because the statements you were making, I'm I'm not worthy of love or anything, all those statements. I mean, I'm having scripture pop into my mind as you're saying and it's like that's in direct conflict with what scripture actually says. Yeah. For God so loved the world. I mean, we all know that verse. but also you mentioned condemnation. There's no condemnation in Christ. I mean, our value as ers, it just it is in direct opposition to what God's Word actually says. and then now you're making claims to try and justify the thinking. Right. Beyond that and it just devolves and devolves. Right. Because and confirmation bias is the phenomenon where I look for the evidence to that agrees with the conclusion I've already drawn and I disregard the evidence that would be contrary to the conclusion that I've drawn. So if I've concluded that I am worthy of whatever I think I'm worthy of, I'm gonna look for all the evidence that validates that. And the sin that has corrupted my being, I'll ignore. Or on the other side, If I think that I'm worthless, I'm gonna see all the things in my life that validate that I just I am just a failed attempt at a human and I have no value whatsoever. And then the th the evidence that would suggest otherwise, I will then disregard it. Yeah, disregard. And so I just think it's better to start with what does scripture say? And then as a result, how then should I think about myself? And if we'll do that, then we can be honest about about yes, our sinfulness and the effect that that has on us. We can be honest about the things about being human that are actually valuable. And we can then walk in a manner worthy of the Lord because what I'm I recognize God's Creational intent in me, I recognize sin's effect within me, I recognize Christ's renewal of me, and then I'm living in the ongoing work of the spirit that's remaking me into what I was supposed to be. And I can see all of that in a way that glorifies the Lord because I'm not diminishing what he said for the sake of something that I'm hearing around me or something that I'm reinforcing to myself. Yeah. And I just want to point out what you said. About looking to the truth of God's word to know how I should think about my value. because I hope people Can understand and submit to the idea of what humility that takes. and possibly confession that we instead of starting with an idea of what we have about ourselves and then going to God's word and and trying to wade through that way, we really have to potentially confess and repent that we have decided our value, our worth, our identity, all these things about ourselves and been looking for confirmation, not only In the world and in other relationships, but even going to God's word and going to God and demanding that he confirms those in his word and confess that and say, God, help me to start with the truth of your word about my value and my identity. And from there, let that shape my thinking. And then I can already see as we've been talking how correct theological thinking not only in this area, but other other areas like the theology of suffering how those things shape then what we do with further information. So we our identity and our value is based in what God's word says about us. And then when I'm confronted with something, maybe I'm not receiving something that I feel like I'm worthy of, like belonging, which is true. Well, how do I deal with that then? I need to have a correct view of God's will and his sovereignty and how that might allow suffering in my life to shape me. And so there's there's many theological truths that need to actually Like bumpers to correct our thinking as we go. Right. And I I think that the I always like using questions to frame theological discussion. So like rather than just throwing some giant term that nobody uses out into the air, like start with a question that everybody would want to know the answer to. And I think the questions that have to be answered in order to get a biblical view of human value. Or lack of value, like depending on how which side you're on and that you need corrected, we need to ask, what is a human? Who am I as a human? And then from there say, so what what is valuable about that? Therefore, how should I see myself or how should I live? Mm-hmm. The problem with the two options that I gave at the beginning is that they collapse all of it into one thing. They collapse, collapse all four of those questions into a single, basically a single question. What is my worth? Well, depending on on where you are in the narrative of scripture and that y and the angle that you're coming from in asking that question, you're gonna answer it a very different way. So if if you think that it's just the question, what am I worth? and you look at creation, you're gonna think, I'm worthy because you're created in the image of God. Mm-hmm. And so by very nature of the fact that I exist, I am valuable to the fullest because I simply exist. Which means everything that I think I'm worthy of, I'm deserving of because of the value that I have. If you're on the other side of the fall, though, and you're asking the question, what am I worth? And so you're looking at it through the lens of your sin, you're gonna say, I'm worthless. Yeah. Because I am sinful. There's plenty of evidence in my daily life that I am corrupt to my core. And that's just looking at my own actions and words, let alone my thoughts. We start bringing my thoughts into the equation, and I'm clearly not valuable because of my sin. So by collapsing all the questions into the single question, what am I worth? and then collapsing the answer to just one part of the story. I'm going to have a limited and distorted view of it. So I think the way that that is best to do it is to say, okay, those four questions, what is a human? Who am I as a human? What value then does that bring? And then how should I live as a result? And you answer those four questions with the stages of the narrative of scripture, and you get a way bigger picture. Yeah. A way big bigger picture that now you're able to start talking about all those different facets of the Christian life in a much more holistic, like big picture way, where you can put the blame where it needs to be, you can put the praise where it needs to be, you can put the hope where it needs to be. and so I think it's worth just kind of walking through those those four questions. Yeah, I think that'd be really helpful. And see how it corrects the two the two errors. So the first question is, what am I as a human? And we talked about this in this room. so we don't need to rehash all of it. If if someone's listening and they they haven't heard those, you can definitely go back and listen to them. Yeah. But suffice it to say, huh human beings are are the image of God. They are not created simply in the image of God like it's something we have or it's a quality that's added to us. It's what we are. Human beings are the image of God. They are the reflection of God to all of creation. And the way that they reflect him is that they resemble him in their thinking, they represent him in their living, and they relate to God and to one another in a way that reflects the way that God relates. They humankind is the kind of the crescendo of creation. It is once hum once the man and the woman are created, creation is now very good. all six days of creation, well the first five, it ends with it was good, it was good, it was good. You get to verse thirty one at the end of day six, and it's good, good, which is why we say very good, because the repetition in Hebrew is for emphasis. So Each day was good, now it's good, good. It's very good. It's the way it's supposed to be. So already we can see that humanity has they have value because of their position, their function, their the timing of their creation, their place within the creation, over creation. They're told to subdue the earth and have dominion. Lots of value language in there. Like this creature is worth something to God. Yeah. They matter to him because God also is relating to them in a way he relates to nothing else in scripture. He's speaking to them. He's telling them how to live in a way that's for their good because they matter to him. And he wants them to have a life that is the good life that he designed them for. And even zooming in right there, are there like practical things we can pull down for people and say if you're hearing that thinking this in your own mind or hearing other people say this, this is true. Like you are worthy of relationship or belonging, like because we see that in the garden or work, like they they had work and dominion over. the earth are there some practical things that we can pull out of that quickly or is that okay. Yeah, I think that I think that we can certainly say by very nature of being a human being, you are created for. Like it is a part of your makeup as a person To enjoy God's goodness expressed through the way that you live with others and in creation. So you like just think of good, actually good things. Yeah. That you would look at and say, There's literally nothing sinful about that. That is a good thing. Security, belonging. right view of yourself and for other people to have a right view of you and not not have a distorted or dishonest view of you. you your ability to use the gifts God has given you so that He is reflected in you and so that other people are built up. Being loved. Like those those are things that you are made for. You you are created in such a way that your very being longs for those things because those are right and good things. It isn't so much that we should say you're worthy of those things in the sense of like you're so great. But it's that we should have a view of the human person that every person is is should be rightly desiring those things. Like it is not a bad thing for you to want those things. You made a distinction earlier, and this could be helpful. It's not you deserve. It's not based on what we've done. We're going to creation and because of what God has done in his creation, this is what it was meant to be. Right. So in that that's where the worth comes from and that's what it's tied to, not what I have done to deserve or not deserve. That's exactly right. Because the distinction that even you made right there is a distinction between design versus merit. Mm-hmm. Right? So I am I am worth as a human being. Being able to enjoy the things that God designed me for. He imbued humanity with a value that is is commensurate with being the very reflection of God in creation. That is, God imbued, he gave it to us by how he designed us, that we should rightly desire those things, because in rightly desiring them we're saying, Yes, God, your design was good. So it's actually Him who's who's worthy of. Praise in that. It's him who's worthy of our acknowledgement in that. And our value as human beings, being created as the image of God, is then the way that we just live in that that right design. Whereas if I start saying things like I am worth this thing because of who I am, that starts to that starts to shift from design to merit. Yeah. Because of what I've done, because of how I view myself. If I I view myself as being worthy of these things, then those things will come. That's even meritorious. Like I'm still saying I deserve it because of me. And this is where we need to confess and repent again. We just keep turning it back inward every time towards ourselves, placing ourselves on that throne and seeing everything through that lens. And so that's what we want to cautious not only our audience, but ourselves against we're seeing it already. We're turning right back around and Starting with me and then like Right. So so we see that and we say, okay, so it's rooted in God's design. So what I am as a human is I'm created in the im image of God. So who am I as a human? I'm an individual reflection of God that He has uniquely made for this time and this place. And so I need to live with that view of myself that I am as a human. I'm not just a part of a collective where the collective is the reflection of God and I just kind of like find my place in it. There is a corporate sense to it. That's why the church is is the body with Christ as the head. That's going back to Genesis one and two language. But I as an individual am also the image of God, so that those truths apply to me. So then, what value do I bring? Well, I don't actually bring value. It's the value that God has placed upon me as his creation. So I don't take credit for it. It's not something that I can celebrate. Look how valuable I am because of all the things I bring to the table. It's the creator of the universe knit me together in my mother's womb. He knows my frame. He made me intentionally. He he has a purpose for my life. And in that There is value. That does something to my entire nervous system hearing you say that. Like I just when our when we're rightly aligned with the truth, there is a peace and a freedom where I'm just like, thank goodness. How exhausting is the striving and the proving of the value that I bring all the time. And then I'm defending if other people aren't seeing. I mean because I feel threatened if you don't see it. Now I feel now now I've got to make sure you see it. Yes. And when we speak the Truth of God's word about that, it's just like it feels like a deep breath. Yeah. And I that's freedom that comes from truth. Totally. But then something happened. Something broke. Yeah. Right? So, like, why is it that we have all these broken views of ourselves? Well, it's because there's another chapter in the story, and that is the fall. And in the fall, the image was marred, it was distorted. It was you c you could say it was shattered, not beyond repair, because God shows throughout the rest of Scripture how it is that He's gonna recreate His people in in His image. But the entrance of sin in Genesis three It affects the way that we answer all those questions. Because now, what am I as a human? It isn't just I am the image of God who is imbued with all the value of my creator because of his good design for me. It's yes. But Because of sin, I now rebel against my creator by nature and by choice, in thought and in deed. And so I no longer reflect him the way that I was designed to. So now God's design for me is not being lived out. There's a fracture there. So then the question of so who am I as a human being? I'm a sinner. Like that's the hard answer, but I am a sinner. It's not just that I'm a part of this collective, same thing as the creation category of answers to those four questions. It's not just that I'm a part of this collective that is sinful, it's that I am a sinner. So third question: what value do I bring? Well, even now, even the things that I would bring that would be valuable are marred by sin, and so are as filthy rags before the Lord. So then how am I living as a result of that? Well, now I'm I'm living in a constant and endless striving to prove the value that I desire to have, often through sinful means, desperately wanting these things that I was made for, but the way that I'm trying to go about getting them are all broken. Yeah. Now, we take those answers to those four questions in creation and the answers to those four questions in the fall. And we can see where we get the worthy and worthless theologies, right? Worthy theology ignores the fall. Worthless theology ignores the design. And when we put it all together, we're able to say it's not that you're worth everything that you think you're worth, and it's not that you're completely worthless and trash. It's that there is human value that God created for us to have that is true. But we have to be honest about the fact that our sin has morally corrupted us to the point where we cannot of our own doing ever live consistently with that value that God gave us. And so then that's where the next chapter is so necessary, because the next chapter in the gospel story is that God sent his son to live in our place, to die in our place. So he lived in our place, perfect righteousness, perfectly displaying the worthiness that he has as the perfect man. but he also died in our place, perfectly taking care of all of those sinful effects that kept us from God and distorted our value. And because of that, when we place our faith in him, we are recreated. Like the New Testament is not used in that language coincidentally. The New Testament, when it uses new creation and recreation and renewal language, is pointing us back to saying, God is, God has now begun the work in you of returning you to his design for you. So if you're in Christ, that value that he placed upon you as a human being made in his image is being renewed. That personal identity that you have is being renewed. The the the way that you should view yourself now should be renewed. I shouldn't be seeing myself only through the lens of my sin. I should be seeing it through the lens of the work that he's doing in me as a new creation. And I can now live in light of that, knowing that my value is not my own. It comes from God's design. But because of that value that he placed upon me and upon us as his people, he is committed to to completing the work that he began in me, because that will bring him glory when his people live in light of the value that he's placed upon them. Now that does not mean then that we should have a super high view of ourselves. It doesn't mean, so I'm like num God's number one priority. No, God's glory is his number one priority. But what glorifies him is that you and I live the lives that he meant for us in the good design that he had for us because he placed that value upon us. And so we should we should see that value in ourselves. Not because of what we bring to the table, but because of how he made us. And how he is remaking us. Yeah, those are such important distinctions. And like we mentioned back in our series on being human, it's no wonder that this is the very thing that Satan attacks and confuses and goes after because it brings God glory when we're living aligned with the truth about our identity and our value. and I just think this I and I pray, but I I trust that it will be so helpful for our audience that's listening. As they reflect on how they think about these things for their own value and what they're speaking to themselves, but also what we're saying to other people and hearing from other people. Like we start at the beginning, like how do we discern as we're hearing from people I or speaking into people's lives? I think about parenting, of course. I mean, we're parents and as are many people in our church family and the listening audience and the things that we're saying to them, are we attaching them to these worldly ideas? ideas of what brings value and and what they're worthy of, or are we continually going back to the truth of God's word and how he created them and living according to his design. I know I want for my kids not only just that they're aligned with the truth, but that they can experience the peace that comes from being aligned with the truth like we talked about, and not what the world wants to heap on them about this striving and proving and performing. And then too thinking about how, you know, we're we're in relationship in the church, in small groups and and in our friendships and in families and when people are speaking to us, ha are there some practical things that you would advise people to say or maybe questions to ask in response when they're making some of these claims? You know, I'm thinking if you're following someone on social media that's promoting this kind of material, this you are worthy, not attached to truth or or the other unbalanced side of it, we can unfollow those people. We can as we're it become more discerning, make choices to not consume that. But when we're in real relationship and we're having a conversation with someone and they're saying something to us in our small group when we've shared and we're asking for prayer and they make claims that that we know now are not aligned with the truth of God's word, how would you encourage us to navigate those kind of situations? Well, I think that one of the best things to do when someone says something where you're like, I don't know if that's true is to just ask, What do you mean by that? Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Because then they have to articulate more. Yeah. and then a follow up question to that is, and how did you come to that conclusion? Mm. Cause now they gotta tell you where they got the idea. Mm-hmm. And I do think in a lot of in a lot of situations where we're talking about things, we are really good at phrasing things in a way that sounds convincing even if where we got the information wasn't a credible source. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, just look at social media. Like it just Yeah. There's all kinds of convincing stuff where where you don't actually necessarily know where the source where their source material is and whether it should be convincing or not. But in if someone is if someone is just in that like self deprecation of I'm completely worthless, okay, like what do you mean by that? Well, I'm I am deserving of nothing and except condemnation. Okay, how'd you come to that conclusion? Well, because Scripture says so. Okay, great. yes, scripture does say that we're deserving of condemnation, but does it say that we're worthless? Because those are two different categories. Because condemnation is the right punishment for my sin as rebellion against God. And yes, we are deserving of that 100%. But scripture also makes clear that because of who God is, And how he created us and his purposes and redemption, that we are chosen, holy, and dearly loved. I don't know, dearly loved doesn't sound like worthless to No. That sounds that sounds very affirming of a God given value. Mm-hmm. And so then, right, so What do you mean by that? How'd you come to that conclusion? Now I'm gonna offer something that's a biblical correction or refinement to what you said. And then I think a really helpful question is how would you talk to yourself or how would you restate that to include these other truths? And you'll probably get a different statement. You'll probably get something that is more in line with what scripture says and is more fixated on who God is rather than fixated on what I think of myself. Because for me to have a a right view of myself, I have to have a right view of God first. Because I'm made to reflect Him. Yes. So Any any view of the human person that is disconnected from or comes before our view of who who God is is going to be wrong. It's just going to be wrong every time. But if we will start by saying, Well, who is God? And now, as a result of creation, the fall, and redemption, because of who God is. What does that mean about now how I should think about myself in relation to the storyline of scripture? And we're gonna we're we're going to be able to say things to one another that are truly encouraging. I think a lot of times we do really good at the navel gazing and and really beating ourselves up. And because we're really good at that, we're really good at doing it to each other. Mm-hmm. You know, I think about things where people struggle with with certain thoughts of themselves or views of themselves, especially when we think about things that happened to us when we were younger or w traumatic experiences or th things that someone did to us. That all impacts the way you view yourself. And and the like the the worthless theology thing would say, Okay, so what are all the sins that you need to repent of? Because you're just you're you're a worthless sinner, and this is just evidence of all of how much of a worthless sinner you are. And so the more that you figure out all your sin in all these thoughts, the better off you'll be. Okay, there might be sinful thoughts in there. There are certainly sinful ideas in there. Okay, but What what is actually encouraging, what actually builds up is to say, man, those things all happened and it totally affected the way that you view yourself. Let's call sin, but let's also bring truth to bear on what God's word says about how he views you, who you are as his child, and now go and live in that truth. I think I I mean I just think that's that's the way that we should be building one another up. Yeah. Distortions of the truth are abundant, both in our current world, coming at us from all angles and from our past, as you mentioned. and I think that'll be helpful as people examine maybe where they have an unbalanced view or just a flat out incorrect view. And I think the examples you gave of ways to engage in conversation with people and gently push back with questions, that sounded like speaking the truth in love to me. And really gentle but But not avoidant of having a conversation that we are refined by because we are working our way back to the truth of God's word. And again, I can think of that's a great way to engage a family member, someone in your small group, a friend, a well-meaning friend maybe, but with unbiblical advice could be devastatingly tragic. Again, as we parent our kids, to ask questions is such a gentle way to challenge people and and get them thinking about the source of their truth, like you said, and then pointing them. Back to biblical truth and aligning on that. And it sounds like a wonderful way to engage in biblical community and be anchored in God's word. so hopefully that is an encouragement and a challenge for people as they're listening. I this is such a practical, relevant thing. I mean, I think we're gonna encounter versions of this conversation and these ways of thinking every single day. I mean, as you said, mostly just because of the way we talk to ourselves and about ourselves. so we can start there. but it just bleeds into everything and how we view others, talk about others, to others, what we're the inputs we're receiving as well. And so again, if people want to go back to that kind of foundational conversation series that we had, it was a three-part series on what it means to be human. So there's a lot of great truths in there that set us up for this conversation. And then again, that's new this season of the podcast, we want to invite people to participate. With us even more by letting us know if they have further questions, either on this topic or other topics. And so there is a link at the bottom of this podcast, whichever platform you're listening, you can go to that form and either provide feedback or comments or additional questions that people might have. So we can make sure that we can have further conversations on those topics as well. So thanks for joining us for the Harvest After Sunday podcast, where we help you grow into the image of Christ by applying the truths of his word for his. mission. We'll see you Sunday.